The Whittakers- 2 Years Later Updated Family tree NEW Family Members: th-cam.com/video/0Kw8I4wR5MY/w-d-xo.html Ray Whittaker Explained- The Man Who Barks: th-cam.com/video/aLfcx6uhOGQ/w-d-xo.html SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE FAMILY TREES: th-cam.com/channels/LkN9aa7m2J4PKtSTs4DrlQ.html MORE INBRED FAMILY TREES: 1) The Blue Fugates: th-cam.com/video/bSXTZP1uVGE/w-d-xo.html 2) King Tut's Inbred Family Tree: th-cam.com/video/LU_6F6ZQMGA/w-d-xo.html 3) Cleopatra's Inbred Family Tree: th-cam.com/video/EaGuMrs_x2M/w-d-xo.html 4) Rameses II married his daughters: th-cam.com/video/YKdj-Gsa258/w-d-xo.html 5) Wu Zeatin (China's Only Female Emperor): th-cam.com/video/u-IuRqrmTyo/w-d-xo.html 6) I'm My Own Grandpa: th-cam.com/video/jHrKDjbawaE/w-d-xo.html 7) How Inbred Is Elizabeth II? (Her Family Tree Explained): th-cam.com/video/T1-oG20pf34/w-d-xo.html 8) Empress Sisi was Extremely Inbred: th-cam.com/video/ln3NpEUNCCI/w-d-xo.html
That fella that could only bark to communicate but understood English was so damn heartbreaking. He might not be able to read or speak but his soul is pure gold.
@@oliviamartini9700 that is not the case at all. Shame on you for spreading such ignorant falsehoods. Ray has been well cared for his whole life by Betty and the neighbors. He has been non-verbal since birth, as many people are. His “barking” is not him imitating a dog, it is just the form of vocalization that comes most naturally to him. He is 100% capable of interacting with other people (if they take the time to understand him) and can understand most basic social cues. Betty and many other people who have kept their names private have worked their asses off for decades now to make sure Ray gets the love and care he deserves. They would never leave him out with the dogs.
I am from West Virginia. I grew up extremely poor also. Thankfully not quite as poor as the Whittakers. But up a holler nontheless. I am so amazed by the comments I looked at. You all express kindness and sadness instead of laughing or criticising them. Thank you.😊❤
Viewers of The Soft White Underbelly are empathic people. The stories are often tragic but they allow us to understand the how's & why's, much like this family tree. If you haven't, I suggest giving the SWU a chance because it's a profound channel.
My dear, you are such a sweet person. Nobody has the right to look down on others. May God help that family and may He prepare a wonderful mansion for you in Heaven.
I've never understood why people would be mean to them. They can't help who they were born to. They did absolutely nothing wrong and are victims of circumstance.
Agreed, they had a bad gene pool To begin with it seems unfortunately. Crazy to think people self inflict this on their children. Once cars became a thing, not even the most rural communities have an excuse for this.
@@hollichristensen6419 that entire family shouldn’t even exist. It’s disgusting and wrong. These are the ones that give white people a bad name. What’s the one thing people always say? Inbred. And all you dipsh!ts are “omg such a sweet family”. Disgusting
@@marlonrodriguez9623 no excuse. This family shouldn’t even exist. How many more inbred spawn are they gonna bring into the world. One of them literally drools on himself and barks like a dog and people are like “omg so heart warming”. What is wrong with people???
The two granddads being twins makes the genetic overlap between their parents more similar to half siblings, not even to mention the second cousin thing. This is far more drastic than regular first cousin relation.
The offspring from the twins married each others children making them double first cousins . The boys from one twin married a girl from the second twin and so on. They married their first cousins making the babies double. Got it?
@dawnemyers5056 My comment wasn't about what they actually are dumbass, it was about how much genetic overlap there is between their parents. Twins= Same genetics, as if it was one and the same person. So if their parents share 50%of their dna, it's genetically similar to offspring of half siblings. So sit tf down and don't skip your special ed class next time
Family tree doesn't take into account 'unofficial' incest. Wasn't uncommon for a uncle, dad or friend of family (could also be related) to impregnate their niece/daughter/young woman who then get pushed into marrying a dude before the baby bump getting too big to avoid having bastard fatherless kids.
Nope, you made that up! :) It is IDENTICAL twins who have the same genetic makeup. FRATERNAL (regular) twins are just as closely related as any other pair of siblings. They just happen to be the same age. Unless you have proof of them being identical twins, it is, in fact, quite literally just regular first cousin relation.
I know. It's really just first cousins marrying, then that offspring marrying another first cousin. They must have bad genes. The royal family had been doing that for at least a century.
My mother was born in WV. Over a decade or so, I went back and did some genealogy research. I have quite a few Whittakers in my lineage. I tracked down a bunch of graves stones and even a Whittaker homestead in Giles County (in Va but on the border of WV). After my daughter referenced the youtube videos, I mentioned to her that we may be related. She showed me this tree. After a quick consultation of my family tree, turns out my 5th great-grandfather is James Whittaker jr. It's a small world.
I think that there is way more inbreeding in this family than is being told. I also don’t believe a lot of the relationships were consensual as you can tell from Lorrenes situation. This is just very sad and unfortunate.
I live in germany and was absultely shocked when the german professor told us in class that before he was teaching he was working for the state documenting incest. He said "it was surely bad before and after the war. No money is really taking its toll on families and their socio-economic environment which leads more often to inbreeding than anyone had thought at the time. It was never talked about and the people who knew, knew, but usually kept their mouths shut. In these days it's much better. But not nearly as good as you would think." I was completly stumped. It came never to my mind that I may have had an encounter with somebody like this. Statistically I should have, and it's just so creepy to think about.
depends on what you call inbreeding... if you mean between siblings or parents/children that may be. If you mean between first cousins, that's pretty normal in much of the world today.
Worth mentioning that if the twins were identical (John & Henry), their children who married (John & Gracie) would be genetically half siblings rather than 1st cousins and that explains the severe defects some of the children have. I think this is likely
To be fair, this is the case in any rural area where people don’t move far from home. We’ll all have some inbreeding in our ancestry, just generally people stuck to no closer than second cousins. There’s definite overlaps in my family tree in the UK once I get back to the 1800s.
Here’s how i had to break it down to Make my brain stop hurting. My mom Elizabeth, married my dad, Thomas Whittaker, and had a few kids..(Me and all of my siblings… we are obviously whittakers, because our dad is) My moms sister (my aunt, Mary) married a man. My aunt, Mary , had two daughters (my cousins). Two of my brothers married my two cousins. (My aunt Mary’s daughters). **first set of incest** (One of these brothers that married our cousins, was a twin.) Remember, one of my twin brothers, married our cousin…… now, HIS twin, (my other brother) ended up getting married to a random woman. Each of these couples had some kids. One of the twins children (my niece), married one of the other twins children (my nephew). So, one of my nephews from my twin brother, married and had kids with one of my nieces from my other twin brother. (Remember, one of my twin brothers is ALREADY married to our cousin) **second set of incest, which is like double incest since they’re twins** So, The kids that my niece & nephew (both twins children) ended up having, are THE Whittakers that we know & see on TH-cam. God, my head hurts. I hope this helps someone. I know i have a weird way of understanding things… maybe if you just put yourself into the equation like i did it’ll help. Lol 😩
Man am slow... so one of my twin brother married two femalesĵ (which are cousins) & the other twin married a different female (non related) or did each twin marry a cousin? Help me lol
@@ZARAG-ge4id ... I think: you have brothers who are identical twins. Twin A marries & has kids with Cousin 1. They have a kid, X. Twin B married & had kids with Random Woman, they have a kid - Y. So X & Y are cousins through their fathers. Because they come from dads who are identical twins, they're basically half siblings with the "same dad", as it were, and completely different, unrelated moms. X & Y, who've grown up together being cousins and are genetically half siblings, for some reason decide to get married to each other and make babies. And that's how we ended up here. ... I'm pretty sure that's how it goes 😂
HA, the complete story was too much for me. Your explanation was too much for me, but I needed to understand. Now I understand what my husband means when he says that I don’t need to do all of that explaining but as I can see it is necessary. It just if the receiver finds it overwhelming. Thank you.
It’s not uncommon to marry first and second cousins in the early 20th century and even earlier times than that. Crazy to see how just 2 generations of 1st cousins then 2nd cousins marrying can really create tons of genetic issues for the third generation. Thank you for doing this fascinating research. I wish this family all the best!
I mean, I'm from a small village where cousins and second cousins got married for 400 years. My family-tree is MUCH more inbred than Whitaker's is and the most we have is scoliosis and ADHD/autism occasionally. I thought Whitakers were product of multi-generational incest.
They didn't always looks like that. We lived near them and they starved their animals to the bone. My dad even took a horse from them because they were starving him.
I understand why Lorraine is the least vocal out of them now, this family have suffered so much, I have so much respect for Betty spending her life caring for her siblings and nephew and being a voice for them when they struggle to communicate, it's fascinating and tragic how normal incest and abuse was in rural West Virginia families like the Whittakers
So…. (= means the children they had) James Whittaker jr married permelia Clybern= thomas whittaker Meanwhile: James perkins married lucy Conway = elizabeth and mary perkins (sisters) Thomas whittaker married elizabeth Perkins= henry and john whittaker (twins) Mary Perkins married samuel riggs= ada riggs Ada riggs married john whittaker= gracie whittaker Meanwhile: Henry whittaker married sarah burton= John whittaker Then: John married gracie whittaker= the family who we know Hope this made a little more sense 🥺
I can’t help but wonder how poor Lorene came to be sexually assaulted in her thirties. I have to assume she’s been home bound her entire life. This raises many questions for me.
I pastured some horses at some people's place once. I stopped by to check on them one day and sat to have coffee with them. Poor old lady (suffering from dementia) started trying to tell me how a fellow showed up that was her brother as well as her uncle. I didn't understand so her husband clarified, said her grandpa was an evil old bastard, who sexed up her mother, years before and knocked her up. They sent her away to have the baby, gave it up, then came home try and act like nothing happened, but truth finally came out. Sick!
My ex father in law raped his own daughters for years. We're assuming her oldest kid is her dad's son, but can't prove it. He looks a lot like his grandpa, & was born with cerebral palsy. 🤔
As a historian I can apreciate the amazing work you put in. Having to unscrable inbred family tree is super confusing sometimes. SUPER INTERESTING STUFF, thank you very much for taking the time ❤❤❤
I had unscramble the Lee family tree for an internship. Obviously I won’t explain it all here, but I’ll just leave you with this: Lighthorse Harry Lee was Phillip Fendall’s stepfather-in-law until Phillip’s wife died and he remarried, at which point Lighthorse became Phillip’s brother-in-law.
Their mom was pregnant for most of the years between 1937-1960. I wonder if some of the family's conditions is from malnutrition, environmental factors and access to prenatal care. I mean even "good" prenatal care in this time frame was nothing compared to prenatal care today. And being in a more rural area didn't not make access any easier. I wish them well, and love that the town they live in protects them and cares for them so well. We always say, it takes a village, and these people have their village
I would go with this theory… Poverty, malnutrition, maybe some genetic disorder that has not been detected (not necessarily linked to inbreeding). I’ve done a lot of work on my family tree and have found many many cases of inbreeding on my fathers side, on my grandfathers side, there were first cousins marrying in every generation for 4 or 5 generations and also found on my grandmothers side, her parents were first cousins, meaning my great grandparents were first cousins. One of my aunts (my father’s sister) married her first cousin and had 6 children. I don’t know of anyone with physical or cognitive challenges on my bloodline.
True. When I was a child we lived next door to a family with seven chidren. The first two were lovely lively pretty girls, but as their mother had a baby every year they became more sickly and showed signs of mental and physical disability. I think their dad was violent, and suspected the mother started drinking to cope, she had no teeth by the age of 30 and looked wizened. They were all always hungry, me too, we lived in poverty. The last couple of kids I saw were in pretty poor state tbh.
I think not, there are millions examples of families with many children and also being poor, especially in the past, and not single one of them is like that, it's just genetics.
@@Cedo86 poor maternal nutrition has been shown to produce sickly babies, higher rates of low IQ, stunted growth etc. The larger the poor family, the more it happens. In the UK the "working class" who were called ip for military service in WW1 were found to be small, weak and disease ridden. This was mainly attributed to poor nutrition among the urbanised post industrial revolution populations.
West virginia has a lot of heavy metal runoff from the coal mines that get into the soil and groundwater. Outside of intermarriage, this causes a lot of FLK syndrome (funny looking kids), cancers, skin issues and developmental delays. It may be a contributing factor to the family’s issues
I was thinking that, yeah. Obviously the incest is probably one of the causes of their health conditions but pollution, the fact that almost none of them went to school, probably also grew up without proper nutrition, lack of medical care, all would be contributing factors
@@andremoller782 Mountain people that can't read their family name on a gravestone or piece of paper, are still able to feel pride about it. They are capable of emotions from receiving such a gift.
@@katrinajohnson3776. Thank you for having such a compassionate heart to have said so. It would seem people have no level of understanding and are very cruel.
They are a sweet family. So sad their earliest known relative became an orphan on the way to America. I wish nothing but the best for them. We see so many depictions in pop culture of “inbred” people being aggressive and frightening … but this family couldn’t be further from that.
The Whitaker Family are very sweet to me I've seen both the video's and yes I agree they all share some difficulties and many terrible health related issues but we all do. My heart goes out to the Whitaker's. I'll say this - for as disabled as the Whitaker Family are mentally and physically they do love each other very much. And the Whitaker Family manage to keep it together to run their home. It's unfortunate how disabled the Whitaker's are but I like that they are looked after and checked on. Such a sweet plain folk blessing's to the Whitaker Family🙏🏼🕯️
How do you know that? Have you lived with them? Some of the worst serial killers, rapists and abusers are "friendly" and easily befriend people. Unless you truly KNOW someone, you don't know them at all.
I was so sad to hear about Lorraine being assaulted. How horrific, I knew there was a fear in her eyes, I've always wondered what was going on inside her. The love this family have for each other is incredible. Very interesting to learn about their family tree and genetics. Love conquers all ☮️
I think In remote areas of the country, it’s not unusual to find some great grandparents that were cousins. My great grandfather said he had to leave his small farm town in Florida in llate 1800’s. so he could find a wife that wasn’t related to him. That was the story told down generations. I however think he left his home area because he got in trouble!
You have hit upon some thing. In rural areas, there was no such thing as “dating” You only met people at picnics and church functions. Relatives married distant family or, neighbors. At some point in time there would be no one that you could marry that wasn’t related to you in some manner. I know, my family is from West Virginia. My mother and I went to a family cemetery, and she named all these people that were buried there and how they were related. She said when she was young, she could never date anyone because they were related to her!
@@annjohnson6193 Note also that Iceland has a pretty sizable amount of "fresh blood" coming in via immigrants and their descendants. That's a good thing for many reasons, including/especially genetic health!
@@scottcharney1091, Chinese and other Asians keep records of family lines. It's my understanding, from my late grandfather, that a certain number of generations had to pass before you could marry a distant relative. I think it was something like 5 generations. That makes a lot of sense when you live in small villages where most people are related in some way. My ancestors came from a group of Five interrelated villages in the Pearl River delta area of China.
FASCINATING!!!!! Identical (i.e., monozygotic, or MZ) twins share 100 percent of their genes, whereas fraternal (i.e., dizygotic, or DZ) twins generally share only 50 percent of their genes.
I thought it was going to be a lot more gross, but Betty and siblings - trying to keep this straight - their parents were 1st cousins whose parents were twins whose parents were also 1st cousins. That's wild, but a lot more innocent than I'd expected. Still leaves the question of Timmy though. He looks so much like Larry, to me.
A lot of purebreds aren't bred with their siblings anymore. They're bred with other pure breds. My dog is a purebred basset hound and her dad came from a different state.
@@genericwhitemale1114 Basset Hounds are actually one of the most inbred breeds alive today. Most basset hounds have joint issues because of the weak gene that arises from mating siblings or parents and kids. They are the fourth most inbred breed of dog 😂
I know with horses if you 'line bred' and 'double bred' people once thought it was making an even more powerful horse or 'smarter' horse. The things that make ya go hmmm. I would not bred my horses to their sire or dam or sibling.
*@Destiny Heath* ☘️ Yes, some of the very people that would sneer & laugh at them are themselves estranged or quarreling with their own family. The Whitaker's could teach us alot - I remember watching the first original documentary about them years ago and though they lived poor squalid conditions, they always had a smile for everyone and clearly loved & cared for each other, which is more than some other families who might sneer at them. Also I recall, the local people, sheriff & Doctor ALL looked out for the family too, refusing to let anyone with cameras or ill- intentions to just show up. It's rural country but close-knit, they look after each other up there,
I am from Kentucky and this is one family of many in these circumstances. I lived near another family who were so inbred that many of them sat on the porch almost year round in wheelchairs. I remember one lady in that family was coming in to have a baby at the hospital at least once a year it seemed and one of her hands was so deformed it looked like a lobster claw. This lady could talk but she seemed to have the mentality of a 5 year old. So sad.
I am so glad I discovered your channel. I just saw the documentaries made about them. I am so glad that you and Mark treat those people with dignity and respect. They seem to be lovely and happy in their own world.
I loved watching those videos Mark made. They were sad, yes. But they also showed a lot of love and care and really taught viewers how amazing humans can be. How adaptable we are. It’s really impressive how the non-verbal Whittakers learned to communicate, and so inspirational how they take care of each other.
You find this lot inspirational? Typical disingenuous comment from someone trying to seem kind. SAing your sister at 13 is not admirable. Save your admiration for someone who's eyes point in the same direction.
I also expected the family tree to be more entangled given the amount of physical and mental deformities you see in the siblings. I guess we are to assume the twin brothers from the 1800s were identical and that resulted in genetic complications when their children married(they would have been half-siblings genetically speaking) and had these kids you see in the video. The situation with Lorraine might be darker than we'll ever know. I wouldn't be surprised if Timmy's dad is one of his uncles. Unfortunately when you're under the same roof all those years in close quarters, I can see sexual molestation happening. Timmy looks way too much like his uncles.
Timmy looks identical to ken. If you noticed in the last encounter with them in summer 2022 when mark asked who was Timmy’s father there was a silence for a few seconds with than a quick reply that she was assaulted and raped. I wouldn’t be surprised if ken is Timmy’s father.
The twins thing is a good point, they weren't like regular first cousins, the twins genes were identical, so even a generation from there, their gene ratios were probably more identical, too. But yes, like I already said in another comment, royalty and other groups throughout history have purposely married first cousins to keep things, in the family, but were still, ok. The odds on this family go the other way around. It is amazing how much most of us are related throughout history. Start with you and your parents. So you had four grandparents, and they each had two parents, so that's eight great-grandparents, and they had two parents each, so that's sixteen great-great-grandparents and so on, and so on, now average each generation at 30 years old and keep going... once you get to your 30th generation back you have over 1 billion great-grandparents (the year 1050), once you get to 40 generations back you have over 1 trillion grandparents (the year 750), which is 'impossible,' because when you got to 1 billion you were already way past the amount of people on the planet at that time. "Number of Ancestors in a Given Generation"
She didn't raise him as she isn't mentally capable of doing so, I can guarantee you that she was raped by one of her family members which resulted in timmy.
@@LisaMarie-xp4ym She was assaulted probably by someone in the family or someone outside the family I'm not sure but I'm guessing on the former of it being a family member since well ya know...
Thanks for the very good and respectful breakdown of this! Absolutely fascinating family history. As others have said it was not uncommon for cousins to marry, but when the twin brothers' children got together, I think that's the real beginning of the troubles. There is too much genetic overlap with that union.
No way! My mother is Joseph Whitaker Sr.'s 5x great-granddaughter through Joseph's son Nathaniel :0 I was so shocked to see a photo I recognized. Yes, it most certainly is not Joseph who is pictured. I think I found an old newspaper article claiming it was one of his sons (perhaps James, if I recall correctly?). Great video.
Thanks for this explanation! I was wondering about the photo If Joseph was born in 1755, he probably died before there was regular access to photography. Also the picture is pretty clearly 1840s-60s, when Joseph would have been much older than the man in the picture!
Heck I figured they came from marriages of siblings. Now I'm wondering what happened... At any rate they're dear people and I'm so glad Mark captured snapshots of their lives.
Identical twins have the same DNA, so their kids would be half-siblings genetically speaking. There was also another close cousin marriage in the twins' family line; who knows, there may have been others.
With cousins, even first cousins, it's usually not a big deal UNLESS there are genetic disorders. I believe that's what happened here. It's still legal for first cousins to marry in many states because it's not really much different than a completely unrelated couple.
@@lavenderoh On a one off chance yeah it's not the worst thing. They probably wouldn't even be disabled. But if you look at Pakistan for instance they've been marrying cousins forever. It's lead to some very troubling statistics.
@@beckyshell4649 It overlaps even more. One of the twins' wives was also a first cousin, so he married a double first cousin. So you have a 25% coefficient of relationship for double first cousins before even getting into whether or not the twins were identical. If the twins were identical, there's another 25%, so I think you're looking at a 37.5% coefficient. That's the same as a 3/4 sibling (when the same parent has children with two siblings or another parent and their child).
I love that you talk about these people and treat them with respect. They deserve respect and kindness. I had some cousins who these men remind me of. They were loud and grunted and scared me as a child. My Mom would go and visit. I don’t know why they were like that. I am glad my Mom took me. I am kind to anyone different because of her visiting them. I told my sons all about them and taught them to respect others as well.
The Whittakers are such a lovely family, I wish them a peaceful comfortable life and nice that kind people look out for them. Saw a documentary about them a while ago and it touched my heart how each one of them are so special and how much they care for each other. Wish more people were like those folks.
This is a massive oversimplification, and completely overlooks the obvious suffering of these people. Ignorant people, I swear, next you’re going to say we should all marry our cousins and enjoy a “comfortable” life in squalor without heat in the winter. We’ll all promise our mothers to never marry so we can care for our severely disabled siblings who have been discarded by the system? Sounds peaceful 🙄
@@Kirsten_is_cursed10 tha fk is your problem? These folk are victims of their ancestors. They seem to try to live an honest life and care deeply for one another. They are having to deal with the hand they were dealt. You seem a little privileged. I hope Jesus touches your heart this Holiday season. Or maybe karma places you dirt poor and disabled for everyone to talk about and make fun of. I'm not an ass though. So ,I hope for the first option.
@@Kirsten_is_cursed10 Uhh what the fuck is this reply? Their situation is harsh, of course everyone knows that. I understand what you're saying but I'm sure OP meant that in spite of everything that has happened, they still take care of each other. It's called a silver lining.
My maternal grandfather’s family (Traylor) has had descendents in central Virginia since the 1600s. No interfamilal marriages that I know of but I can say there is quite a bit of depressive, personality disorders, anxiety in the last several generations. Thanks for sharing info on the Whitakers. Very interesting how geneologies play out.
I was sceptical to watch this as I've been following the family since Mark first intervied them.. Happy to say this was interesting & done respectfully. Thankyou for sharing your information and u've gained another subscriber.
🤙🏻🍕 ugh, so heart breaking knowing how Timmy came about and the fact that Betty kept her word to her mom and took care of her siblings make me tear up for sure.God bless that family. My heart goes out to them. Thank you for clearing up their tree. I was VERY confused, obvious but confusing none the less about how they were inbred and how they were actually related to each other. A lot of people's minds go towards the whole "My dad's my uncle too" type thing and that's not at all how this family is. Anyway, much love to the Whittakers. 🤙🏻🍕
Great review of this very interesting family. It warms my heart that Mark has used his influence to get financial support for this very needy and deserving family. Thank you again
It would be interesting to find out if the birth defects predated the current group. Considering the interconnectedness of the family doesn't go back that far, I am wondering if there are also some environmental factors going on too. Born and raised in the Steel Valley on the Ohio side. Birth defects abound due to contamination from old mines, steel mills, etc. They r just getting some of these places cleaned up after almost 100 years of contaminated water and soil.
We also don't know if the twins whose kids married were identical or not. If they were cousins with parents that were identical twins, genetically, that's pretty much the same as half siblings marrying.
I think there is more to it than genetics. There are other videos of Appalachian people that have nothing to do with the Whittakers, I noticed that some off them have the same eye issues some off the Whitakers have. Perhaps something in the soil or water. Now granted, genetics don't help...but, there is more than one thing going on, imo.
It's not only the coal mines and steel mills though. You should look up something called PFOA. DuPont have dumped hundreds of thousands of pounds of the stuff into the Ohio river since the 1950's. They knew full well the negative health effects it had on people, but they're still dumping it into the river to this day, even after being exposed. Truly evil company. Bet the execs were like "Who cares? They're a bunch of dumb hillbillies anyway". This chemical is probably having more of a catastrophic effect on the health of the people and wildlife in the region than coal ever did. I'm not condoning what Ted Kaczynski did, but I can't argue with what he wrote.
This is fascinating. I love the Whittakers. I think Betty would appreciate this. She's so awesome to take care of them all and to devote her life to that.
This family have more humanity than most families. They clearly love and take care of each other. Can't say that for most families these days. God bless them 🙏💗
Because they have no other options in life. They live in the middle of nowhere, have no resources and are uneducated and have severe disabilities… they’re all stuck with each other. It’s by default not choice.
Great Video! Thank you for clarifying this. Another creator made a disparaging remark about the Whitakers "not minding" when they were "getting themselves into" the scenario that resulted in their genetic issues. I got in their comments trying to explain that this was NOT a case of multi-generational inbreeding, that their parents had been first cousins, but that the two siblings who had produced these first cousins were identical twins, & therefore the cousins shared roughly the same amount of DNA as siblings (half-siblings, really) do. Ordinarily, first cousins only share 4% more DNA as random strangers. That's why it's perfectly legal for first cousins to marry in 19 States in the US, & legal with some restrictions in 6 more States. Of the 26 States which prohibit first cousin marriages, 17 allow cohabitation & sexual relations between first cousin's. So, sum total, 42 States in the US acknowledge that first cousins don't share enough DNA for there to be significant genetic issues with their offspring. It's when a family REPEATS the practice of first cousin marriage in subsequent generations that genetic problems arise. Or in the case of the Whitakers, when the first cousins are the offspring of identical twin siblings. John Emroy Whitaker & Gracie Irene Whitaker, because their respective fathers were identical twins, had the same genetic make-up of half-siblings with the same father but different mothers. In any event, the Whitakers are beautiful people who in no way brought any genetic issues upon themselves. There isn't a history of repeated generational first cousin marriages. Their parents were just a special kind of first cousins (in more ways than one!) The fact that some of the higher functioning siblings care for those who have special needs, that they (especially Betty) have sacrificed what could have been "normal" lives in order to take care of their siblings, is a devotion to family rarely seen in this day & age, & something to be applauded. By the way, first cousin marriages is ILLEGAL in West Virginia, but cohabitation & sexual relations are allowed. First cousin marriage was not illegal anywhere in the US until the 1880s, & almost all of the current laws were in place by 1920, so I don't know if John & Gracie went to another State to get married, or if they were, perhaps NOT married (they already had the same last name, after all). The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws unanimously recommended in 1970 that all laws prohibiting first cousin marriage should be repealed, but no state has dropped its prohibition. Globally, about 10% of all marriages are between first or second cousins. In the US, it's a mere 0.2% of marriages, whereas the number is closer to 50% in Pakistan. Fun fact: Charles Darwin married his first cousin Emma Wedgewood (whose grandparents were third cousins). I think MY family has more incidents of consanguineous marriage than the Whitakers do! But no identical twins. Genetics are a funny thing. Again, great video. Next time someone says something about the Whitakers having any kind of history of inbreeding, I'm going to send them right here to see the facts. And thank you for speaking kindly & respectfully of the Whitakers. They really are sweet people, & I agree, Timmy & Ray are as fascinating as they are entertaining. I love the way Timmy sort of "translates" what Ray is woofing about. I don't know if he actually "speaks Rayese" or if he's just making it up, but it's priceless. I worry about Ray. His health has been waxing & waning this past year, & I can't IMAGINE how a doctor's appointment would go, so who knows what might be going on with him. Thanks so much for this upload. I'm gonna go check our some of your other content now. It's good for the algorithm.✌🏼
They were basically first AND second cousins though and decided to have children, 15 in fact after they saw multiple have birth defects. It’s sad. I think it’s wrong no matter what to get with your cousin but this is multiple cousin marriages, not just one on top of the twin cousins. The parents were cousins (from twins) and the mothers parents were cousins (the fathers aunt and uncle were cousins). I love the Whitaker’s and I feel for them. It’s not there fault, it’s their parents. They had to have known after having so many children with problems.
Totally agree the twins could have been identical, which is where most of the problems came from. Check the family tree again: 2 generations in a row of first cousins married.
This was fascinating thank you I've watched all of Marks videos about the Whittaker family and have been very touched by their devotion to each other.We should all aspire to be at their level ♥️
Normally first cousin pairings don’t generate a lot of birth defects, but when it’s repeated in the family tree, especially with twin siblings’ children pairing with each other, there can be complications as severe as those seen in children of closer familial relationships. Basically if you have kids with your first cousin and your parents are identical twins, the genetics are similar to having kids with your own sibling. We also don’t know who Timmy’s father is, but his mom was taken advantage of. His father could also be a family member.
I have seen the short films about this family and couldn’t help but think they might be poor and have disabilities but they live in such a beautiful area. Thank you for the respect you showed them.
I live in WV about an hour south of them. They are very sweet people. It angers me when people talk about Wrong Turn West Virginians because they literally don’t exist. This is reality. The Whittakers are real, and they deserve your love.
I would if Larry named his daughter after his sister, Betty. She's a gem. What a wonderful explanation of the family tree. The Whitakers and the whole subject of inbreeding is fascinating. I mean that in the most respectful way. Mark is one TH-camr who actually offers something of value to this platform. I'll definitely check out more of your videos. 🤍
I have a lot of love and respect for this family. I really admire the most able-bodied sibling because she chose to be her siblings' caregiver instead of leaving them behind. Even though this family is living in poverty the most able-bodied sibling could have gone on to create a seperate life for herself but she chose to give that up for her brothers and sister.
@@avalondreaming1433 I agree, she said she never got married, she doesn't have kids of her own. She told her mother she'd never marry and take care of her siblings and nephew. So again I agree with you 100%.
The crazy thing is, ab 12 days ago when this video was posted, I legit said to my wife that I wish someone would make a video going over their genealogy. Thank you!!!
Growing up in south Arkansas I came across at least two families very similar to this family over the years . One of the families my grandfather let live on some of his land , we called them the hillbillies , I’ll never forget those people . This reminds me of them so much ❤
I adore this family. I'm from south eastern Kentucky and know a few families specifically that are just like them. They are all some of the best people you could ever meet and some of the most interesting. A lot of the incxst isn't even consensual. People like the Whittaker's are almost always so nice and so interesting. I'm so happy that people fell so hard for them.
@@kenetickups6146 it's so sad to know that a lot of these people are forced to do things or don't even know that they are being forced into situations.
I just Love Ray the man that barks alot, He just touches my heart, Mark had money donated to him for the whittakers and he took that money and restored the old trailer they were living in, he has done so much for the whittakers Love Mark and his channel, he really cares about people, he helps the homeless, drug addicts and so many have lied and scammed him but he always caught them and was done with them, I would be the same way as well.
Ray is my favorite as well! He seems like such a sweetheart! I think about this family often & I pray someone will help take care of them if anything happens to Betty.
@@alaska-bornfloridaman Seems like they could raise enough money to just buy a new double wide or have habitat for humanity go out there. Some government grants. Someone must have the know how to help this family. Each one is receiving a disability check so they may be able to handle a small mortgage. A few years ago, I saw a video of a man who got a church to donate a trailer to a senior in West Virginia and they all worked together to get it set up for her and put furniture and everything in it. I would love to see something like that for this family.
My great grandparents are buried in the Hannah-Lilly cemetery also. My last name is Lilly. We are no relation to the Whittaker’s but I’m sure my great grandparents probably knew them because they did live in Odd, WV also until their deaths. I grew up about 20 minutes from where they live in Cool Ridge, WV. Other than the genetic issues I’m sure that the family being more isolated and most likely abuse, mental and physical led to their issues also. People talking about the water, their environment that could be true but they have city supplied water in the odd area. I have never seen any of them until watching the videos on YT and it breaks my heart seeing it. That is not common in that area and has been a pretty big shock to others that have never saw them and watched the videos.
I do not believe this kind of family tree is so unusual. As genetics is a ‘roll of the dice’, one or two plus a couple of cousin birth defects, before DNA analysis, would be chalked up to bad luck. And while we might like to ascribe this familial inbreeding to rural areas alone, really any and all co-mingling associations of large, closely related families can show similar results… from Bund Camps to Synagogues to…you name it. Wherever birds of a feather flocked together to the exclusion of outsiders.
Thank you! This is absolutely not purely because they live rural and are poor. Just look at all the royal houses of the world. Specially the older generations, they would marry cousins frequently
yes, I'm a professional genealogist and I expected it WAY worse, this is not that bad to explain their health issues. Either they are really unlucky or there is something else going on (like legal marriage covering worse incest case). It would be really interesting to see results of genetic genealogy instead of the paperwork.
@@carnifaxx All those people on that were shown in the family tree dumped a cup of their DNA in the big glass of family and then disseminated to the children who drank from that glass and so on down the road of adding or taking away from that glass.
@@joannabaparileszczynska Very True!!! The Hapsburg's come to mind. They were a cross-breeding family that dates back to the 1400s. Lots of "Blue-Bloods" to keep territories and royalty titles in the family.
🤡 I certainly wouldn't compare Bund Camps to synagogues. 👉 One was devoted to nazi enthusiasts & all the evil fukcery that entails, the other is devoted to God.
My familytree from father's side is full of cousins and second-cousins marrying for 400 years in a small village (with breaks in between thankfully but we were still horrified to see how small our genepool was). My ex was a baltic german nobility whose great-grandfathers were twins and their kids got married because they could not marry below their social status....we are nowhere near like Whitakers. There has to be incest that is not recorded here. My ex even said nobility was always aware of "blood curse" like Hapsburgs had but that was down to uncles marrying nieces in several generations, not mere cousins. Pakistanis tend to have similar genetic problems due to generation after generation of first cousins marriages so they are basically closer to being siblings than cousins. Something else is at play here. I say parentage might not be correctly recorded due to shame and secrecy.
Most of us, when we go deeply into our genealogy, find that our ancestors were third cousins, or second cousins, or sometimes even first cousins. Before there were cars, people tended to marry from the community in which they lived -- specifically someone from the same religion, same socio-economic class, same value system; and very often, that person would be a fairly close relative. When I first discovered it among my own great-great grandparents, I was horrified, but then I discovered it was VERY common 150 years ago. And typically it didn't seem to be a problem, until it begins to occur repeatedly among successive generations.
@@bramlintrent1145 I've got health issues cause of it, my family members too. I was never ashamed knowing it, just embarrassed by what others think. Timmy is my favourite because he shows people despite being inbred he's very intelligent
@@FatYoshi619and it happens in Pakistani countries, parents arrange marriages between cousins, thankfully people there are trying to refuse arranged marriages.
Man Ray just broke my heart. Such a genuine soul. He has his own way of communicating and he understands a lot more than he’s given credit for. Bless his fukn heart ❤️
I am glad they have such wonderful neighbors. They really look out for them so people don’t come in and take advantage of the Whitakers. They are different but you can tell they love each other. And that they get along well with their community.
My heart goes out to the whole family. They are really warm hearted people. I believe that when they pass they will become perfect, the way they should of been when born. Wish someone would build them a home.
There is nothing worst on this planet than people who think themselves superior to everyone around them, I was taught that we all live and breath the same air and no matter the colour of our skin when we bleed we all bleed red. My Grandmother taught me this after I had been beaten to pulp because of my heritage. She taught me to forgive them because they were taught to hate as their parents were taught to hate. I was never able to forgive them but I was able to stay clear of them the rest of my life. I hope this family will be left in peace, they have every right to live life and to be happy.
I had to watch this a few times. I wish the mother let the girls date and not be so strict. They would’ve met and married men outside of their genetic pool. This family tree is fascinating.
This family might not have money, or smarts or beautiful in outward appearances but they have love, they look out for each other as best as they can, Timmy has such a cute personality and Betty, bless her heart she has had to hold down that fort which is clearly no easy task. I imagine their lives haven’t been too easy & let’s face it, people can be so cruel. Mark has changed their lives for the better by introducing us to this sweet family. It’s nice to see that there’s still some good people in the world ❤
I had expected closer inter relations considering the scope of their defects. I hate using that word but I couldn't think of another to describe what I wanted. My mother is from the Appalachian mountains of VA and there is a long list of inter relations in some of those families. It's because there just wasn't that many families living in such rural communities. I was surprised when my grandmother told me that it was common and not necessarily frowned upon. My grand parents were fourth cousins. I think the Whittakers may have had something more going on with their genetics than just inbreeding. They really aren't that close. I hope that they are a happy and well loved family.
It seems it just comes down to their parents being genetic half-siblings. In fact, their parents must have shared almost 50% of their DNA (at least 37,5% on average) considering the ancestral Perkins connection, which was reinforced on their mother’s side, since their maternal grandparents were 1st cousins. It could have been much worse if their paternal grandfather had married the other Riggs sister, in that case it would have been almost equivalent to being genetic siblings, despite them being double first cousins. In the end it does seem to be a tragic case where the conditions for genetic isolation are mixed with the ignorance of genetics and how they work amongst twins (I personally come from a region where genetic diversity is on the lower end, and have never seen something like this despite having way more endogamic family trees). That being said, I do have doubts like you. Without wanting to discredit the work that was done, it would be interesting to check out an expanded family tree of the Whittakers, because I have a feeling that at the moment, it was either impossible to get more information about the women's families, or it wasn’t done out of any considerations we don’t know. Knowing I could be wrong, there might be connections we do not know between the Whittakers, Perdues, Hickses, Clyberns, Perkinses, Conways, Riggs and Burtons, either more distant (known) or just geographic (meaning unknown but present), the last one is important since, over time, certain ailments become endemic to populations of certain places, and it isn’t unlikely that the ancestors of this family came from a small set of places, some of which could have even been close enough to each other.
No they're inter relations are very close. So the parents are double first cousins. basically its would be the same as having a kid with a half-sibling. to put that into prespective, that means the parents would share a 25% genetic overlap. and we can safely assume the interbreeding was going on well before this pairing.
Your video and family tree was very interesting. The part I am so impressed about is the fact that you could highlight the names so we could follow it very easily. I really enjoyed the video and I think you did a fantastic job.👏👏👏
This makes more sense, seeing the Whittaker family tree drawn out. I thought there was a brother/sister pair, but I must have been mistaken. I just didn’t realize that first cousins marrying a couple times could cause so many genetic issues. I have been mapping out my own family tree, and it looks like mine has overlapped at least once, possibly twice. Maybe it’s just been so long ago, so our gene pool has recovered? I don’t know. I can say that 1. I’m thankful that my kids and I are genetically ok. 2. The Whittakers definitely have a place in my heart. They never asked their family members to procreate! But seeing how they care for each other, and how they provide for one another warms my heart. Betty, stay healthy! ❤
There kind of is. It was the twin boys who spawned the current families as they interbred. If the twins were identical, there wouldn't have been much difference in their DNA when their children married the others. They'd be more akin to half siblings than 1st cousin. Again, assuming the men were identical twins.
Nursing homes, Mark makes good money off You Tube, maybe he will use some to aid the.. Got to have royalties on some of these channels not just go fund me. They make big money on these.
Wow, dude just found your channel. Subscribed. My father worked as a provincial government genealogist, he's helped people look up long lost relatives. He's also recently done some research pertaining to Black British Olympic competitors from back in the day, some of his research being featured in an article in The Guardian. This channel is the kind of stuff he loves. He retired from his job in 2019 just before the pandemic but continues to do freelance genealogical research.
I mean let's be serious if these videos didn't exist and this family showed up to walmart, you kids would be plastering them all over your tik-toks and labeling them Trump supporters and such
I first watched this family on Soft White Underbelly too. They both broke my heart (regarding the disabilities they have gained due to their inter-breeding) & melted it as they are so sweet!! It was absolutely fascinating learning about their family tree, thank you for your hard work researching.
The Whittakers- 2 Years Later Updated Family tree NEW Family Members: th-cam.com/video/0Kw8I4wR5MY/w-d-xo.html
Ray Whittaker Explained- The Man Who Barks: th-cam.com/video/aLfcx6uhOGQ/w-d-xo.html
SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE FAMILY TREES: th-cam.com/channels/LkN9aa7m2J4PKtSTs4DrlQ.html
MORE INBRED FAMILY TREES:
1) The Blue Fugates: th-cam.com/video/bSXTZP1uVGE/w-d-xo.html
2) King Tut's Inbred Family Tree: th-cam.com/video/LU_6F6ZQMGA/w-d-xo.html
3) Cleopatra's Inbred Family Tree: th-cam.com/video/EaGuMrs_x2M/w-d-xo.html
4) Rameses II married his daughters: th-cam.com/video/YKdj-Gsa258/w-d-xo.html
5) Wu Zeatin (China's Only Female Emperor): th-cam.com/video/u-IuRqrmTyo/w-d-xo.html
6) I'm My Own Grandpa: th-cam.com/video/jHrKDjbawaE/w-d-xo.html
7) How Inbred Is Elizabeth II? (Her Family Tree Explained): th-cam.com/video/T1-oG20pf34/w-d-xo.html
8) Empress Sisi was Extremely Inbred: th-cam.com/video/ln3NpEUNCCI/w-d-xo.html
😀
Yes, thousands of years ago, they had no idea what problems incest causes. What excuse do later families have?
That fella that could only bark to communicate but understood English was so damn heartbreaking. He might not be able to read or speak but his soul is pure gold.
That's the result of being "raised by wolves" as the saying goes.
He was clearly left outside, probably chained, with the dogs.
@@oliviamartini9700 Id not even thought about that possibilty you know :0
@@oliviamartini9700 that is not the case at all. Shame on you for spreading such ignorant falsehoods. Ray has been well cared for his whole life by Betty and the neighbors. He has been non-verbal since birth, as many people are. His “barking” is not him imitating a dog, it is just the form of vocalization that comes most naturally to him. He is 100% capable of interacting with other people (if they take the time to understand him) and can understand most basic social cues. Betty and many other people who have kept their names private have worked their asses off for decades now to make sure Ray gets the love and care he deserves. They would never leave him out with the dogs.
And he just loves Alpo dog food!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@Katie-mw7pd I once saw him raise his leg to pee on a fire hydrant😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I am from West Virginia. I grew up extremely poor also. Thankfully not quite as poor as the Whittakers. But up a holler nontheless. I am so amazed by the comments I looked at. You all express kindness and sadness instead of laughing or criticising them. Thank you.😊❤
Viewers of The Soft White Underbelly are empathic people. The stories are often tragic but they allow us to understand the how's & why's, much like this family tree. If you haven't, I suggest giving the SWU a chance because it's a profound channel.
My dear, you are such a sweet person. Nobody has the right to look down on others. May God help that family and may He prepare a wonderful mansion for you in Heaven.
I've never understood why people would be mean to them. They can't help who they were born to. They did absolutely nothing wrong and are victims of circumstance.
Pity yes, but there are people in here celebrating this. Under no circumstance should we be celebrating or condoning incest
💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖
I appreciate how respectful you are and how you provided eulogies for the late members of the Whittaker family.
Agree!
Right? No judgements just straight to the facts.
Agreed, they had a bad gene pool
To begin with it seems unfortunately. Crazy to think people self inflict this on their children. Once cars became a thing, not even the most rural communities have an excuse for this.
@@hollichristensen6419 that entire family shouldn’t even exist. It’s disgusting and wrong. These are the ones that give white people a bad name. What’s the one thing people always say? Inbred. And all you dipsh!ts are “omg such a sweet family”. Disgusting
@@marlonrodriguez9623 no excuse. This family shouldn’t even exist. How many more inbred spawn are they gonna bring into the world. One of them literally drools on himself and barks like a dog and people are like “omg so heart warming”. What is wrong with people???
The two granddads being twins makes the genetic overlap between their parents more similar to half siblings, not even to mention the second cousin thing.
This is far more drastic than regular first cousin relation.
The offspring from the twins married each others children making them double first cousins . The boys from one twin married a girl from the second twin and so on. They married their first cousins making the babies double. Got it?
@dawnemyers5056 My comment wasn't about what they actually are dumbass, it was about how much genetic overlap there is between their parents. Twins= Same genetics, as if it was one and the same person. So if their parents share 50%of their dna, it's genetically similar to offspring of half siblings.
So sit tf down and don't skip your special ed class next time
Family tree doesn't take into account 'unofficial' incest. Wasn't uncommon for a uncle, dad or friend of family (could also be related) to impregnate their niece/daughter/young woman who then get pushed into marrying a dude before the baby bump getting too big to avoid having bastard fatherless kids.
Nope, you made that up! :)
It is IDENTICAL twins who have the same genetic makeup.
FRATERNAL (regular) twins are just as closely related as any other pair of siblings. They just happen to be the same age.
Unless you have proof of them being identical twins, it is, in fact, quite literally just regular first cousin relation.
That’s only if they were identical twins. Fraternal twins are just as genetically varied as any other pair of siblings
I figured there would be A LOT more overlaps given the profoundly unusual physical attributes these siblings display.
I did as well. Goes to show you it could have a lot to do with surroundings,malnutrition,and possibly chemicals more than inbreeding.
I know. It's really just first cousins marrying, then that offspring marrying another first cousin. They must have bad genes. The royal family had been doing that for at least a century.
True, but the fact that the two brother's in the tree were twins likely resulted in a much higher coefficient for genetic problems.
There would be, who would know who the real fathers are
Yeah I would have thought the same thing, but it really shows that birth defects like these displayed can happen in non-cosanguinous pairings as well.
It hurt my heart to hear that Lorraine was assaulted. She always has a smile on her face, bless her heart.
She told Mark that in 1 of his interviews
Yes, very sad to hear this about Lorraine. At least Timmy came out of such a dark time in her life. Timmy is a sweet boy.
Deep sadness here when I heard that too
She’s a brave survivor her an her Son 🙏🏼 ❤️
Yes and when she comes in my store she's so nice to me.
Can we take a moment to appreciate that someone named their baby Zobedia Obedience Biddie.
lmao
Me! I thought is this a blk woman but lookin at the tree that wld a hard NOPE!
@@roneseelliott-lee7321 why would you think it’s a BW? Weirdo. We don’t have names like that
@@roneseelliott-lee7321 racist
@Bandler Ching…some might find that your name or mine sounded funny..it depends on where you live.
My mother was born in WV. Over a decade or so, I went back and did some genealogy research. I have quite a few Whittakers in my lineage. I tracked down a bunch of graves stones and even a Whittaker homestead in Giles County (in Va but on the border of WV).
After my daughter referenced the youtube videos, I mentioned to her that we may be related. She showed me this tree. After a quick consultation of my family tree, turns out my 5th great-grandfather is James Whittaker jr.
It's a small world.
Olá, sou do Brasil e também descendo de um Whitaker ....gostaria de saber mais sobre a família que veio para o Brasil....obrigada
Wow that's wild. Have you tested your DNA ancestry or 23and me?
Are you inbred, too?
Yes it is !
so you're inbred
I think that there is way more inbreeding in this family than is being told. I also don’t believe a lot of the relationships were consensual as you can tell from Lorrenes situation. This is just very sad and unfortunate.
I live in germany and was absultely shocked when the german professor told us in class that before he was teaching he was working for the state documenting incest. He said "it was surely bad before and after the war. No money is really taking its toll on families and their socio-economic environment which leads more often to inbreeding than anyone had thought at the time. It was never talked about and the people who knew, knew, but usually kept their mouths shut. In these days it's much better. But not nearly as good as you would think." I was completly stumped. It came never to my mind that I may have had an encounter with somebody like this. Statistically I should have, and it's just so creepy to think about.
depends on what you call inbreeding... if you mean between siblings or parents/children that may be. If you mean between first cousins, that's pretty normal in much of the world today.
yeah, a lot of times incest involves one party manipulating and taking advantage of another… it’s heartbreaking what happened in this family really.
Agree
Not really. You gotta remember there were twin boys in that line. Their DNA is a close as you can get without being cloned.
Worth mentioning that if the twins were identical (John & Henry), their children who married (John & Gracie) would be genetically half siblings rather than 1st cousins and that explains the severe defects some of the children have. I think this is likely
I was going to write something similar. Identical twins share so much DNA that that almost has to be what happened here.
@@venuss2000 yeah they share close to 100% of their dna
😢😮
Yes it’s exactly what I was thinking
I totally agree 💯
As someone born in rural Arkansas, the number one question you have to ask your parents when you get to dating age is, "how do we know them"
Dude. Yikes.
In 2023.
No one’s told them it ain’t right and to leave to state to meet new peeps
It’s gotta stop.
Gotta quit looking at family reunions for hook ups. Lol. My maternal grandparents were double first cousins also, and from Ark originally. Jus' say'n.
Hahah you americans are freaky
@blessedbythebest1003 Most people don’t have the ability to pick up and leave whenever they want.
To be fair, this is the case in any rural area where people don’t move far from home.
We’ll all have some inbreeding in our ancestry, just generally people stuck to no closer than second cousins. There’s definite overlaps in my family tree in the UK once I get back to the 1800s.
Here’s how i had to break it down to
Make my brain stop hurting.
My mom Elizabeth, married my dad, Thomas Whittaker, and had a few kids..(Me and all of my siblings… we are obviously whittakers, because our dad is)
My moms sister (my aunt, Mary) married a man.
My aunt, Mary , had two daughters (my cousins).
Two of my brothers married my two cousins. (My aunt Mary’s daughters).
**first set of incest**
(One of these brothers that married our cousins, was a twin.)
Remember, one of my twin brothers, married our cousin…… now, HIS twin, (my other brother) ended up getting married to a random woman.
Each of these couples had some kids.
One of the twins children (my niece), married one of the other twins children (my nephew).
So, one of my nephews from my twin brother, married and had kids with one of my nieces from my other twin brother. (Remember, one of my twin brothers is ALREADY married to our cousin)
**second set of incest, which is like double incest since they’re twins**
So, The kids that my niece & nephew (both twins children) ended up having, are THE Whittakers that we know & see on TH-cam.
God, my head hurts.
I hope this helps someone. I know i have a weird way of understanding things… maybe if you just put yourself into the equation like i did it’ll help. Lol 😩
Thanks man this helped
Man am slow... so one of my twin brother married two femalesĵ (which are cousins) & the other twin married a different female (non related) or did each twin marry a cousin? Help me lol
You made this make sense 😮. My poor brain thanks you!
@@ZARAG-ge4id ... I think: you have brothers who are identical twins. Twin A marries & has kids with Cousin 1. They have a kid, X. Twin B married & had kids with Random Woman, they have a kid - Y.
So X & Y are cousins through their fathers. Because they come from dads who are identical twins, they're basically half siblings with the "same dad", as it were, and completely different, unrelated moms.
X & Y, who've grown up together being cousins and are genetically half siblings, for some reason decide to get married to each other and make babies. And that's how we ended up here.
... I'm pretty sure that's how it goes 😂
HA, the complete story was too much for me. Your explanation was too much for me, but I needed to understand. Now I understand what my husband means when he says that I don’t need to do all of that explaining but as I can see it is necessary. It just if the receiver finds it overwhelming. Thank you.
It’s not uncommon to marry first and second cousins in the early 20th century and even earlier times than that. Crazy to see how just 2 generations of 1st cousins then 2nd cousins marrying can really create tons of genetic issues for the third generation. Thank you for doing this fascinating research. I wish this family all the best!
I mean, I'm from a small village where cousins and second cousins got married for 400 years. My family-tree is MUCH more inbred than Whitaker's is and the most we have is scoliosis and ADHD/autism occasionally. I thought Whitakers were product of multi-generational incest.
It's going to create a mutation, same DNA isn't meant to be combined with the same .
You also aren't considering the chemicals and pollution in the water etc from the coal mining in the area past and present.
I think although unconfirmed- if the twins were identical it makes their offspring genetically siblings- not first cousins.
It's because they're BOTH 1st AND 2nd cousins (double cousins) and to twins.
You can tell so much about people by how they treat animals...their dogs look well cared for and loved, very comfortable with the family.
Bull shit, why would lie like that.
They didn't always looks like that. We lived near them and they starved their animals to the bone. My dad even took a horse from them because they were starving him.
@@corypowercat7277 oof reality is a bit h ain't it
@@corypowercat7277 That's horrible, but looking at the little one now they seem to have improved
@@corypowercat7277
You lived in Odd?
I understand why Lorraine is the least vocal out of them now, this family have suffered so much, I have so much respect for Betty spending her life caring for her siblings and nephew and being a voice for them when they struggle to communicate, it's fascinating and tragic how normal incest and abuse was in rural West Virginia families like the Whittakers
I've never been so confused in my life
2 sisters married 2 brothers then 1 off spring from each couple got together
So…. (= means the children they had)
James Whittaker jr married permelia Clybern= thomas whittaker
Meanwhile: James perkins married lucy Conway = elizabeth and mary perkins (sisters)
Thomas whittaker married elizabeth Perkins= henry and john whittaker (twins)
Mary Perkins married samuel riggs= ada riggs
Ada riggs married john whittaker= gracie whittaker
Meanwhile: Henry whittaker married sarah burton= John whittaker
Then: John married gracie whittaker= the family who we know
Hope this made a little more sense 🥺
Same
Same here even watched it twice still confused
Me either 😢😮
Mark has been very good to them and they trust him, their trip to Walmart was the sweetest video.
I can’t help but wonder how poor Lorene came to be sexually assaulted in her thirties. I have to assume she’s been home bound her entire life. This raises many questions for me.
She's not 'home bound' now.
Yeah I was wondering too if maybe someone in her extended family?
Right I noticed they knew what raped meant real well
@@WQ59BInv uh she didn’t drive herself anywhere, wtf are you talking about? that’s homebound
@@mk6022 i was thinking this too. her son look heavily bred
I pastured some horses at some people's place once. I stopped by to check on them one day and sat to have coffee with them. Poor old lady (suffering from dementia) started trying to tell me how a fellow showed up that was her brother as well as her uncle. I didn't understand so her husband clarified, said her grandpa was an evil old bastard, who sexed up her mother, years before and knocked her up. They sent her away to have the baby, gave it up, then came home try and act like nothing happened, but truth finally came out. Sick!
My ex father in law raped his own daughters for years. We're assuming her oldest kid is her dad's son, but can't prove it. He looks a lot like his grandpa, & was born with cerebral palsy. 🤔
A lot more of these stories come to light when the boomers go into homes and reveal the secrets they didn't want to tell any family.
@silentsledge learned things in my family too. Shocking things
Good Lawd!
It took me so long to figure out how this would happen Too long. My brain wouldn’t comprehend it.
As a historian I can apreciate the amazing work you put in. Having to unscrable inbred family tree is super confusing sometimes. SUPER INTERESTING STUFF, thank you very much for taking the time ❤❤❤
I had unscramble the Lee family tree for an internship. Obviously I won’t explain it all here, but I’ll just leave you with this: Lighthorse Harry Lee was Phillip Fendall’s stepfather-in-law until Phillip’s wife died and he remarried, at which point Lighthorse became Phillip’s brother-in-law.
I love the compassion you used when describing the Whitakers 😊
Their mom was pregnant for most of the years between 1937-1960. I wonder if some of the family's conditions is from malnutrition, environmental factors and access to prenatal care. I mean even "good" prenatal care in this time frame was nothing compared to prenatal care today. And being in a more rural area didn't not make access any easier. I wish them well, and love that the town they live in protects them and cares for them so well. We always say, it takes a village, and these people have their village
I would go with this theory… Poverty, malnutrition, maybe some genetic disorder that has not been detected (not necessarily linked to inbreeding). I’ve done a lot of work on my family tree and have found many many cases of inbreeding on my fathers side, on my grandfathers side, there were first cousins marrying in every generation for 4 or 5 generations and also found on my grandmothers side, her parents were first cousins, meaning my great grandparents were first cousins. One of my aunts (my father’s sister) married her first cousin and had 6 children. I don’t know of anyone with physical or cognitive challenges on my bloodline.
True. When I was a child we lived next door to a family with seven chidren. The first two were lovely lively pretty girls, but as their mother had a baby every year they became more sickly and showed signs of mental and physical disability. I think their dad was violent, and suspected the mother started drinking to cope, she had no teeth by the age of 30 and looked wizened. They were all always hungry, me too, we lived in poverty. The last couple of kids I saw were in pretty poor state tbh.
It's from wiping forward during pregnancy.
I think not, there are millions examples of families with many children and also being poor, especially in the past, and not single one of them is like that, it's just genetics.
@@Cedo86 poor maternal nutrition has been shown to produce sickly babies, higher rates of low IQ, stunted growth etc. The larger the poor family, the more it happens. In the UK the "working class" who were called ip for military service in WW1 were found to be small, weak and disease ridden. This was mainly attributed to poor nutrition among the urbanised post industrial revolution populations.
The little description for everyone, it really added the humanity that is sometimes missing in modern life 💜
The fact someone put this together is amazing thank you let’s get this beautiful family the help they need
They're not beautiful though that's for sure. Sadly Hills Have Eyes like looking. But they do not deserve bullying, they need help.
@@jutjubowbeautiful souls perhaps
I agree this is a loving family and such a shame inbred hat to happen but there all remarkable people.
This image was posted in the first video. He just looked at it and talked.
What kind of help do they need
West virginia has a lot of heavy metal runoff from the coal mines that get into the soil and groundwater. Outside of intermarriage, this causes a lot of FLK syndrome (funny looking kids), cancers, skin issues and developmental delays. It may be a contributing factor to the family’s issues
Yeah. Especially when most of them died extremely prematurely.
What the hell? That’s the biggest crock of bullshit. 😂😂😂 Everything you said is absolutely FALSE.
@@solangelalebron1348 FALSE!
I was thinking that, yeah. Obviously the incest is probably one of the causes of their health conditions but pollution, the fact that almost none of them went to school, probably also grew up without proper nutrition, lack of medical care, all would be contributing factors
@@TruthHurtsSoGetAHelmet lol
I hope that you gave the Whittaker family a framed copy of their family tree. It would be good for them to have. This was very interesting. Thanks
Their family pole? Lol
I don't think many of them can read, and I don't get the feeling the ones who can read want yet another reminder that they're inbred
@@andremoller782 I think a couple of them can understand it.
@@andremoller782 Mountain people that can't read their family name on a gravestone or piece of paper, are still able to feel pride about it. They are capable of emotions from receiving such a gift.
@@katrinajohnson3776. Thank you for having such a compassionate heart to have said so. It would seem people have no level of understanding and are very cruel.
They are a sweet family. So sad their earliest known relative became an orphan on the way to America. I wish nothing but the best for them. We see so many depictions in pop culture of “inbred” people being aggressive and frightening … but this family couldn’t be further from that.
The Whitaker Family are very sweet to me I've seen both the video's and yes I agree they all share some difficulties and many terrible health related issues but we all do.
My heart goes out to the Whitaker's. I'll say this - for as disabled as the Whitaker Family are mentally and physically they do love each other very much.
And the Whitaker Family manage to keep it together to run their home. It's unfortunate how disabled the Whitaker's are but I like that they are looked after and checked on.
Such a sweet plain folk
blessing's to the Whitaker Family🙏🏼🕯️
How do you know that? Have you lived with them? Some of the worst serial killers, rapists and abusers are "friendly" and easily befriend people. Unless you truly KNOW someone, you don't know them at all.
🤣🤣🤣🤣So which one is it who keeps the family all together??? Lmao!
@@calvin99991Always someone looking for the worst in any situation.
Don't excuse the horrible act just because they are nice people
it's an disgustingly cruel thing to do
I was so sad to hear about Lorraine being assaulted. How horrific, I knew there was a fear in her eyes, I've always wondered what was going on inside her. The love this family have for each other is incredible. Very interesting to learn about their family tree and genetics. Love conquers all ☮️
they didn't get into much details about the assault. could you please fill me in with who assaulted and what did they do?
@zhouxiadong3673 well they must have raped her because it resulted in pregnancy.
This family has too much love for eachother
They all have each other looking out for one another and that's a lot more than a lot of people have... I wish I had something like that in my life
I think In remote areas of the country, it’s not unusual to find some great grandparents that were cousins. My great grandfather said he had to leave his small farm town in Florida in llate 1800’s. so he could find a wife that wasn’t related to him. That was the story told down generations. I however think he left his home area because he got in trouble!
You have hit upon some thing. In rural areas, there was no such thing as “dating” You only met people at picnics and church functions. Relatives married distant family or, neighbors. At some point in time there would be no one that you could marry that wasn’t related to you in some manner. I know, my family is from West Virginia. My mother and I went to a family cemetery, and she named all these people that were buried there and how they were related. She said when she was young, she could never date anyone because they were related to her!
@@IrishAnnie Note that some small ethnic groups like the Samaritans keep close tabs on family trees, to avoid this sort of thing.
@@scottcharney1091 I’ve heard in Iceland there are records to tell people how closely or distantly related they are to potential dates.
@@annjohnson6193 Note also that Iceland has a pretty sizable amount of "fresh blood" coming in via immigrants and their descendants. That's a good thing for many reasons, including/especially genetic health!
@@scottcharney1091, Chinese and other Asians keep records of family lines. It's my understanding, from my late grandfather, that a certain number of generations had to pass before you could marry a distant relative. I think it was something like 5 generations. That makes a lot of sense when you live in small villages where most people are related in some way. My ancestors came from a group of Five interrelated villages in the Pearl River delta area of China.
You handled this thoughtfully, and respectfully. Well done!
Agreed
I learned about the in 2017 in my anthropology class. Mark is not the only person to know of them.
I guess I missed the part where he made that claim.
Were the twin brothers mentioned identical twins? If they were that would biologically make their children more like siblings than cousins.
I couldn’t find info they were identical or fraternal unfortunately
Very interesting comment! I had to think about that aspect for a minute. Wow
FASCINATING!!!!!
Identical (i.e., monozygotic, or MZ) twins share 100 percent of their genes, whereas fraternal (i.e., dizygotic, or DZ) twins generally share only 50 percent of their genes.
Interesting, that could be a possible explanation.
Like to think about this
I thought the tree would be even more tangled
Me too
Maybe it is and some children are not from actual nonfamily husbands ?! Previous generations…
It probably was! This is just from people accounts. Shameful things may have been hidden. DNA might not solve it either, too complicated.
I thought it was going to be a lot more gross, but Betty and siblings - trying to keep this straight - their parents were 1st cousins whose parents were twins whose parents were also 1st cousins.
That's wild, but a lot more innocent than I'd expected.
Still leaves the question of Timmy though. He looks so much like Larry, to me.
Lots of diagonal lines.
I feel like a lot of purebred dogs would have a family tree like this.
look up the royal family
A lot of purebreds aren't bred with their siblings anymore. They're bred with other pure breds. My dog is a purebred basset hound and her dad came from a different state.
@@genericwhitemale1114 Basset Hounds are actually one of the most inbred breeds alive today. Most basset hounds have joint issues because of the weak gene that arises from mating siblings or parents and kids. They are the fourth most inbred breed of dog 😂
@@genericwhitemale1114 Even so, it's very often not good for them, right?
I know with horses if you 'line bred' and 'double bred' people once thought it was making an even more powerful horse or 'smarter' horse. The things that make ya go hmmm. I would not bred my horses to their sire or dam or sibling.
I love the Whitaker's and their family. They never cease to bring a smile to my face. Especially Ray and Timmy. ❤❤
Amazingly done. They’re really a sweet family. Taking care of each other no matter what and accepting them how they are
so sweet how betty promised to always care for her family and never marry
*@Destiny Heath* ☘️ Yes, some of the very people that would sneer & laugh at them are themselves estranged or quarreling with their own family. The Whitaker's could teach us alot - I remember watching the first original documentary about them years ago and though they lived poor squalid conditions, they always had a smile for everyone and clearly loved & cared for each other, which is more than some other families who might sneer at them. Also I recall, the local people, sheriff & Doctor ALL looked out for the family too, refusing to let anyone with cameras or ill- intentions to just show up. It's rural country but close-knit, they look after each other up there,
Anyone know how this TH-camr managed to get this information? Just seems odd
Except the part where one of them r*ped Lorraine
I'd say that's the normal way. If you think that's surprising, the problem might be you and your culture.
I am from Kentucky and this is one family of many in these circumstances. I lived near another family who were so inbred that many of them sat on the porch almost year round in wheelchairs. I remember one lady in that family was coming in to have a baby at the hospital at least once a year it seemed and one of her hands was so deformed it looked like a lobster claw. This lady could talk but she seemed to have the mentality of a 5 year old. So sad.
That's hot
I wish I was in an incest family
@@vkvk3525 wtf
The “lobster claw” is a deformity and is genetic. There was a circus family about 80-100 years ago that kept passing it down the generations
Well obviously the children lived to tell their tale.. there's mother's out here throwing their kids in dumpsters
I can’t even wrap my head around how you did this, well done.
I am so glad I discovered your channel. I just saw the documentaries made about them. I am so glad that you and Mark treat those people with dignity and respect. They seem to be lovely and happy in their own world.
I loved watching those videos Mark made. They were sad, yes. But they also showed a lot of love and care and really taught viewers how amazing humans can be. How adaptable we are. It’s really impressive how the non-verbal Whittakers learned to communicate, and so inspirational how they take care of each other.
You find this lot inspirational? Typical disingenuous comment from someone trying to seem kind. SAing your sister at 13 is not admirable. Save your admiration for someone who's eyes point in the same direction.
I also expected the family tree to be more entangled given the amount of physical and mental deformities you see in the siblings. I guess we are to assume the twin brothers from the 1800s were identical and that resulted in genetic complications when their children married(they would have been half-siblings genetically speaking) and had these kids you see in the video. The situation with Lorraine might be darker than we'll ever know. I wouldn't be surprised if Timmy's dad is one of his uncles. Unfortunately when you're under the same roof all those years in close quarters, I can see sexual molestation happening. Timmy looks way too much like his uncles.
yeah I think the incest was going on way before the identical twins
..yes...or Timmy's dad could also be his grandfather...😬..it's possible...
Timmy looks identical to ken. If you noticed in the last encounter with them in summer 2022 when mark asked who was Timmy’s father there was a silence for a few seconds with than a quick reply that she was assaulted and raped. I wouldn’t be surprised if ken is Timmy’s father.
Sick familie
The twins thing is a good point, they weren't like regular first cousins, the twins genes were identical, so even a generation from there, their gene ratios were probably more identical, too.
But yes, like I already said in another comment, royalty and other groups throughout history have purposely married first cousins to keep things, in the family, but were still, ok.
The odds on this family go the other way around.
It is amazing how much most of us are related throughout history. Start with you and your parents. So you had four grandparents, and they each had two parents, so that's eight great-grandparents, and they had two parents each, so that's sixteen great-great-grandparents and so on, and so on, now average each generation at 30 years old and keep going... once you get to your 30th generation back you have over 1 billion great-grandparents (the year 1050), once you get to 40 generations back you have over 1 trillion grandparents (the year 750), which is 'impossible,' because when you got to 1 billion you were already way past the amount of people on the planet at that time.
"Number of Ancestors in a Given Generation"
Can't believe somebody did that to Lorraine. And then raised the boy as best as she could. The world can be a cruel place
She didn't raise him as she isn't mentally capable of doing so, I can guarantee you that she was raped by one of her family members which resulted in timmy.
I think it was a family member.....
What happened to her??
@@LisaMarie-xp4ym she was raped
@@LisaMarie-xp4ym She was assaulted probably by someone in the family or someone outside the family I'm not sure but I'm guessing on the former of it being a family member since well ya know...
Thanks for the very good and respectful breakdown of this! Absolutely fascinating family history. As others have said it was not uncommon for cousins to marry, but when the twin brothers' children got together, I think that's the real beginning of the troubles. There is too much genetic overlap with that union.
No way! My mother is Joseph Whitaker Sr.'s 5x great-granddaughter through Joseph's son Nathaniel :0 I was so shocked to see a photo I recognized. Yes, it most certainly is not Joseph who is pictured. I think I found an old newspaper article claiming it was one of his sons (perhaps James, if I recall correctly?). Great video.
Thanks for this explanation! I was wondering about the photo If Joseph was born in 1755, he probably died before there was regular access to photography. Also the picture is pretty clearly 1840s-60s, when Joseph would have been much older than the man in the picture!
O wow!! What a shock 😅 I would have spent the rest of the day telling various family members
Why Is This family having sex with each other
I'm glad you did this. These people have endeared themselves to my heart.
Heck I figured they came from marriages of siblings. Now I'm wondering what happened... At any rate they're dear people and I'm so glad Mark captured snapshots of their lives.
Identical twins have the same DNA, so their kids would be half-siblings genetically speaking. There was also another close cousin marriage in the twins' family line; who knows, there may have been others.
There probably wasn't any non relatives around to marry.
With cousins, even first cousins, it's usually not a big deal UNLESS there are genetic disorders. I believe that's what happened here. It's still legal for first cousins to marry in many states because it's not really much different than a completely unrelated couple.
@@lavenderoh On a one off chance yeah it's not the worst thing. They probably wouldn't even be disabled. But if you look at Pakistan for instance they've been marrying cousins forever. It's lead to some very troubling statistics.
@@beckyshell4649 It overlaps even more. One of the twins' wives was also a first cousin, so he married a double first cousin. So you have a 25% coefficient of relationship for double first cousins before even getting into whether or not the twins were identical. If the twins were identical, there's another 25%, so I think you're looking at a 37.5% coefficient. That's the same as a 3/4 sibling (when the same parent has children with two siblings or another parent and their child).
I couldn't follow ANY of this, which makes me wonder how you were able to even put it together!!! Genius work my man!!
Presented factually and with respect to this lovely family. I am impressed by your kindness.
I love that you talk about these people and treat them with respect. They deserve respect and kindness. I had some cousins who these men remind me of. They were loud and grunted and scared me as a child. My Mom would go and visit. I don’t know why they were like that. I am glad my Mom took me. I am kind to anyone different because of her visiting them. I told my sons all about them and taught them to respect others as well.
The Whittakers are such a lovely family, I wish them a peaceful comfortable life and nice that kind people look out for them. Saw a documentary about them a while ago and it touched my heart how each one of them are so special and how much they care for each other. Wish more people were like those folks.
I'm glad more people aren't severly disabled because of their parents acts
This is a massive oversimplification, and completely overlooks the obvious suffering of these people. Ignorant people, I swear, next you’re going to say we should all marry our cousins and enjoy a “comfortable” life in squalor without heat in the winter. We’ll all promise our mothers to never marry so we can care for our severely disabled siblings who have been discarded by the system? Sounds peaceful 🙄
@@Kirsten_is_cursed10 tha fk is your problem? These folk are victims of their ancestors. They seem to try to live an honest life and care deeply for one another. They are having to deal with the hand they were dealt. You seem a little privileged. I hope Jesus touches your heart this Holiday season. Or maybe karma places you dirt poor and disabled for everyone to talk about and make fun of. I'm not an ass though. So ,I hope for the first option.
@@Kirsten_is_cursed10 Uhh what the fuck is this reply? Their situation is harsh, of course everyone knows that. I understand what you're saying but I'm sure OP meant that in spite of everything that has happened, they still take care of each other. It's called a silver lining.
You have made a wonderful video! Thank you so much for honoring this family tree.
My maternal grandfather’s family (Traylor) has had descendents in central Virginia since the 1600s. No interfamilal marriages that I know of but I can say there is quite a bit of depressive, personality disorders, anxiety in the last several generations. Thanks for sharing info on the Whitakers. Very interesting how geneologies play out.
I was sceptical to watch this as I've been following the family since Mark first intervied them.. Happy to say this was interesting & done respectfully. Thankyou for sharing your information and u've gained another subscriber.
Mark has been so respectful, and has really helped them. He’s earned a place in heaven for it.
🤙🏻🍕 ugh, so heart breaking knowing how Timmy came about and the fact that Betty kept her word to her mom and took care of her siblings make me tear up for sure.God bless that family. My heart goes out to them. Thank you for clearing up their tree. I was VERY confused, obvious but confusing none the less about how they were inbred and how they were actually related to each other. A lot of people's minds go towards the whole "My dad's my uncle too" type thing and that's not at all how this family is. Anyway, much love to the Whittakers. 🤙🏻🍕
hangloose pizza slice bookend. interesting choice
I appreciated how gently and respectfully you spoke about the family
He spoke like a true fake tender pooch 😂
Great review of this very interesting family. It warms my heart that Mark has used his influence to get financial support for this very needy and deserving family. Thank you again
It would be interesting to find out if the birth defects predated the current group. Considering the interconnectedness of the family doesn't go back that far, I am wondering if there are also some environmental factors going on too.
Born and raised in the Steel Valley on the Ohio side. Birth defects abound due to contamination from old mines, steel mills, etc. They r just getting some of these places cleaned up after almost 100 years of contaminated water and soil.
It could be
We also don't know if the twins whose kids married were identical or not. If they were cousins with parents that were identical twins, genetically, that's pretty much the same as half siblings marrying.
I think there is more to it than genetics. There are other videos of Appalachian people that have nothing to do with the Whittakers, I noticed that some off them have the same eye issues some off the Whitakers have. Perhaps something in the soil or water. Now granted, genetics don't help...but, there is more than one thing going on, imo.
It's not only the coal mines and steel mills though. You should look up something called PFOA. DuPont have dumped hundreds of thousands of pounds of the stuff into the Ohio river since the 1950's. They knew full well the negative health effects it had on people, but they're still dumping it into the river to this day, even after being exposed. Truly evil company. Bet the execs were like "Who cares? They're a bunch of dumb hillbillies anyway". This chemical is probably having more of a catastrophic effect on the health of the people and wildlife in the region than coal ever did. I'm not condoning what Ted Kaczynski did, but I can't argue with what he wrote.
I think we can safely assume the inbreeding was going on well before the identical twins showed up
This is fascinating. I love the Whittakers. I think Betty would appreciate this. She's so awesome to take care of them all and to devote her life to that.
Give it a break, it is a sheet hole.
This family have more humanity than most families.
They clearly love and take care of each other. Can't say that for most families these days. God bless them 🙏💗
Because they have no other options in life. They live in the middle of nowhere, have no resources and are uneducated and have severe disabilities… they’re all stuck with each other. It’s by default not choice.
How when they having sex with each other? You people need to stop this
Great Video! Thank you for clarifying this. Another creator made a disparaging remark about the Whitakers "not minding" when they were "getting themselves into" the scenario that resulted in their genetic issues. I got in their comments trying to explain that this was NOT a case of multi-generational inbreeding, that their parents had been first cousins, but that the two siblings who had produced these first cousins were identical twins, & therefore the cousins shared roughly the same amount of DNA as siblings (half-siblings, really) do.
Ordinarily, first cousins only share 4% more DNA as random strangers. That's why it's perfectly legal for first cousins to marry in 19 States in the US, & legal with some restrictions in 6 more States. Of the 26 States which prohibit first cousin marriages, 17 allow cohabitation & sexual relations between first cousin's. So, sum total, 42 States in the US acknowledge that first cousins don't share enough DNA for there to be significant genetic issues with their offspring. It's when a family REPEATS the practice of first cousin marriage in subsequent generations that genetic problems arise.
Or in the case of the Whitakers, when the first cousins are the offspring of identical twin siblings.
John Emroy Whitaker & Gracie Irene Whitaker, because their respective fathers were identical twins, had the same genetic make-up of half-siblings with the same father but different mothers.
In any event, the Whitakers are beautiful people who in no way brought any genetic issues upon themselves. There isn't a history of repeated generational first cousin marriages. Their parents were just a special kind of first cousins (in more ways than one!)
The fact that some of the higher functioning siblings care for those who have special needs, that they (especially Betty) have sacrificed what could have been "normal" lives in order to take care of their siblings, is a devotion to family rarely seen in this day & age, & something to be applauded.
By the way, first cousin marriages is ILLEGAL in West Virginia, but cohabitation & sexual relations are allowed. First cousin marriage was not illegal anywhere in the US until the 1880s, & almost all of the current laws were in place by 1920, so I don't know if John & Gracie went to another State to get married, or if they were, perhaps NOT married (they already had the same last name, after all).
The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws unanimously recommended in 1970 that all laws prohibiting first cousin marriage should be repealed, but no state has dropped its prohibition.
Globally, about 10% of all marriages are between first or second cousins. In the US, it's a mere 0.2% of marriages, whereas the number is closer to 50% in Pakistan.
Fun fact: Charles Darwin married his first cousin Emma Wedgewood (whose grandparents were third cousins).
I think MY family has more incidents of consanguineous marriage than the Whitakers do!
But no identical twins. Genetics are a funny thing.
Again, great video. Next time someone says something about the Whitakers having any kind of history of inbreeding, I'm going to send them right here to see the facts. And thank you for speaking kindly & respectfully of the Whitakers. They really are sweet people, & I agree, Timmy & Ray are as fascinating as they are entertaining. I love the way Timmy sort of "translates" what Ray is woofing about. I don't know if he actually "speaks Rayese" or if he's just making it up, but it's priceless.
I worry about Ray. His health has been waxing & waning this past year, & I can't IMAGINE how a doctor's appointment would go, so who knows what might be going on with him.
Thanks so much for this upload. I'm gonna go check our some of your other content now. It's good for the algorithm.✌🏼
They were basically first AND second cousins though and decided to have children, 15 in fact after they saw multiple have birth defects. It’s sad. I think it’s wrong no matter what to get with your cousin but this is multiple cousin marriages, not just one on top of the twin cousins. The parents were cousins (from twins) and the mothers parents were cousins (the fathers aunt and uncle were cousins). I love the Whitaker’s and I feel for them. It’s not there fault, it’s their parents. They had to have known after having so many children with problems.
Really clearly explained. Thanks
Totally agree the twins could have been identical, which is where most of the problems came from. Check the family tree again: 2 generations in a row of first cousins married.
Anyone know how this TH-camr managed to get this information? Just seems odd
With how they look this makes much more sense to me.
This family has happiness some of us will never know.
This was fascinating thank you I've watched all of Marks videos about the Whittaker family and have been very touched by their devotion to each other.We should all aspire to be at their level ♥️
Normally first cousin pairings don’t generate a lot of birth defects, but when it’s repeated in the family tree, especially with twin siblings’ children pairing with each other, there can be complications as severe as those seen in children of closer familial relationships. Basically if you have kids with your first cousin and your parents are identical twins, the genetics are similar to having kids with your own sibling. We also don’t know who Timmy’s father is, but his mom was taken advantage of. His father could also be a family member.
I have seen the short films about this family and couldn’t help but think they might be poor and have disabilities but they live in such a beautiful area. Thank you for the respect you showed them.
I love the soft white underbelly videos about this family. Thanks for covering them
I live in WV about an hour south of them. They are very sweet people. It angers me when people talk about Wrong Turn West Virginians because they literally don’t exist. This is reality. The Whittakers are real, and they deserve your love.
Could you imagine being a descendent of one of the family who seemed to "get away" and getting blown up like this?
I would if Larry named his daughter after his sister, Betty. She's a gem. What a wonderful explanation of the family tree. The Whitakers and the whole subject of inbreeding is fascinating. I mean that in the most respectful way. Mark is one TH-camr who actually offers something of value to this platform. I'll definitely check out more of your videos. 🤍
Fascinating in a "how can people do something so evil kind of way"
@@kenetickups6146 What do you mean by "evil"?
@@VioletJoy cursing your children to a life of disorder is evil I would say
I have a lot of love and respect for this family. I really admire the most able-bodied sibling because she chose to be her siblings' caregiver instead of leaving them behind. Even though this family is living in poverty the most able-bodied sibling could have gone on to create a seperate life for herself but she chose to give that up for her brothers and sister.
I've loved the Whitaker family since Mark introduced them to us on TH-cam. Such a sweet family. I hope their doing well. ❤
They're family tree is a straight line
So ls your lQ
Poor Betty. She's done the best that she can.
But kept pumping them out.
@@malachi- What are you talking about. Betty did not have any children. She stayed single in order to look after her siblings.
@@avalondreaming1433 I agree, she said she never got married, she doesn't have kids of her own. She told her mother she'd never marry and take care of her siblings and nephew. So again I agree with you 100%.
@@malachi- Wrong, she told her mother she'd never marry to look after her siblings and nephew. She has no children of her own.
The crazy thing is, ab 12 days ago when this video was posted, I legit said to my wife that I wish someone would make a video going over their genealogy. Thank you!!!
I've always wondered how they came to be. Thank you.
I absolutely love them.
Growing up in south Arkansas I came across at least two families very similar to this family over the years . One of the families my grandfather let live on some of his land , we called them the hillbillies , I’ll never forget those people . This reminds me of them so much ❤
What part of south Arkansas are you from? I am from a small town called Bradley. You don’t hear many people say they are from south Arkansas
I adore this family. I'm from south eastern Kentucky and know a few families specifically that are just like them. They are all some of the best people you could ever meet and some of the most interesting. A lot of the incxst isn't even consensual. People like the Whittaker's are almost always so nice and so interesting. I'm so happy that people fell so hard for them.
It usually isn't and cannot ever truly be anyway due to power differentials
such a sad story people end up this way because of the evils others did
@@kenetickups6146 it's so sad to know that a lot of these people are forced to do things or don't even know that they are being forced into situations.
@@CannibalChxrry Yep, very true and very heartbreaking
I just Love Ray the man that barks alot, He just touches my heart, Mark had money donated to him for the whittakers and he took that money and restored the old trailer they were living in, he has done so much for the whittakers Love Mark and his channel, he really cares about people, he helps the homeless, drug addicts and so many have lied and scammed him but he always caught them and was done with them, I would be the same way as well.
Ray is my favorite as well! He seems like such a sweetheart! I think about this family often & I pray someone will help take care of them if anything happens to Betty.
The only problem I have with that is Mark has the Gofundme in his name. Betty seems fully capable of handling that.
@@alaska-bornfloridaman Seems like they could raise enough money to just buy a new double wide or have habitat for humanity go out there. Some government grants. Someone must have the know how to help this family. Each one is receiving a disability check so they may be able to handle a small mortgage. A few years ago, I saw a video of a man who got a church to donate a trailer to a senior in West Virginia and they all worked together to get it set up for her and put furniture and everything in it. I would love to see something like that for this family.
My great grandparents are buried in the Hannah-Lilly cemetery also. My last name is Lilly. We are no relation to the Whittaker’s but I’m sure my great grandparents probably knew them because they did live in Odd, WV also until their deaths. I grew up about 20 minutes from where they live in Cool Ridge, WV. Other than the genetic issues I’m sure that the family being more isolated and most likely abuse, mental and physical led to their issues also. People talking about the water, their environment that could be true but they have city supplied water in the odd area. I have never seen any of them until watching the videos on YT and it breaks my heart seeing it. That is not common in that area and has been a pretty big shock to others that have never saw them and watched the videos.
when your family tree is more of a family tumbleweed
I do not believe this kind of family tree is so unusual. As genetics is a ‘roll of the dice’, one or two plus a couple of cousin birth defects, before DNA analysis, would be chalked up to bad luck. And while we might like to ascribe this familial inbreeding to rural areas alone, really any and all co-mingling associations of large, closely related families can show similar results… from Bund Camps to Synagogues to…you name it. Wherever birds of a feather flocked together to the exclusion of outsiders.
Thank you! This is absolutely not purely because they live rural and are poor. Just look at all the royal houses of the world. Specially the older generations, they would marry cousins frequently
yes, I'm a professional genealogist and I expected it WAY worse, this is not that bad to explain their health issues. Either they are really unlucky or there is something else going on (like legal marriage covering worse incest case). It would be really interesting to see results of genetic genealogy instead of the paperwork.
@@carnifaxx All those people on that were shown in the family tree dumped a cup of their DNA in the big glass of family and then disseminated to the children who drank from that glass and so on down the road of adding or taking away from that glass.
@@joannabaparileszczynska Very True!!! The Hapsburg's come to mind. They were a cross-breeding family that dates back to the 1400s. Lots of "Blue-Bloods" to keep territories and royalty titles in the family.
🤡 I certainly wouldn't compare
Bund Camps to synagogues.
👉 One was devoted to nazi enthusiasts
& all the evil fukcery that entails,
the other is devoted to God.
Imagine how different their lives would be if their ancestor wouldn’t have been orphaned on the trip to America.
My familytree from father's side is full of cousins and second-cousins marrying for 400 years in a small village (with breaks in between thankfully but we were still horrified to see how small our genepool was). My ex was a baltic german nobility whose great-grandfathers were twins and their kids got married because they could not marry below their social status....we are nowhere near like Whitakers. There has to be incest that is not recorded here. My ex even said nobility was always aware of "blood curse" like Hapsburgs had but that was down to uncles marrying nieces in several generations, not mere cousins. Pakistanis tend to have similar genetic problems due to generation after generation of first cousins marriages so they are basically closer to being siblings than cousins. Something else is at play here. I say parentage might not be correctly recorded due to shame and secrecy.
Most of us, when we go deeply into our genealogy, find that our ancestors were third cousins, or second cousins, or sometimes even first cousins. Before there were cars, people tended to marry from the community in which they lived -- specifically someone from the same religion, same socio-economic class, same value system; and very often, that person would be a fairly close relative. When I first discovered it among my own great-great grandparents, I was horrified, but then I discovered it was VERY common 150 years ago. And typically it didn't seem to be a problem, until it begins to occur repeatedly among successive generations.
@@bramlintrent1145 I've got health issues cause of it, my family members too. I was never ashamed knowing it, just embarrassed by what others think. Timmy is my favourite because he shows people despite being inbred he's very intelligent
Not even Pakistanis, just south Asian countries in general. Marriages and alliances among first and second cousins has always been there.
@@FatYoshi619and it happens in Pakistani countries, parents arrange marriages between cousins, thankfully people there are trying to refuse arranged marriages.
Man Ray just broke my heart. Such a genuine soul. He has his own way of communicating and he understands a lot more than he’s given credit for. Bless his fukn heart ❤️
I am glad they have such wonderful neighbors. They really look out for them so people don’t come in and take advantage of the Whitakers. They are different but you can tell they love each other. And that they get along well with their community.
My heart goes out to the whole family. They are really warm hearted people. I believe that when they pass they will become perfect, the way they should of been when born. Wish someone would build them a home.
There is nothing worst on this planet than people who think themselves superior to everyone around them, I was taught that we all live and breath the same air and no matter the colour of our skin when we bleed we all bleed red. My Grandmother taught me this after I had been beaten to pulp because of my heritage. She taught me to forgive them because they were taught to hate as their parents were taught to hate. I was never able to forgive them but I was able to stay clear of them the rest of my life.
I hope this family will be left in peace, they have every right to live life and to be happy.
Thanks for that. We have nothing in this life to give but love
I had to watch this a few times. I wish the mother let the girls date and not be so strict. They would’ve met and married men outside of their genetic pool. This family tree is fascinating.
It's not a pool, it's a puddle. That's the whole problem
Probably lived through the bible, so strict, they weren't allowed to openly pro-create.
The damage was already done. They started inbreeding in the 1800's.
This family might not have money, or smarts or beautiful in outward appearances but they have love, they look out for each other as best as they can, Timmy has such a cute personality and Betty, bless her heart she has had to hold down that fort which is clearly no easy task. I imagine their lives haven’t been too easy & let’s face it, people can be so cruel. Mark has changed their lives for the better by introducing us to this sweet family. It’s nice to see that there’s still some good people in the world ❤
I worry so much about them if Betty passes
@@cherylsmith4826 kenneth and larry seem better off than those other three so they should be okay.
I had expected closer inter relations considering the scope of their defects. I hate using that word but I couldn't think of another to describe what I wanted. My mother is from the Appalachian mountains of VA and there is a long list of inter relations in some of those families. It's because there just wasn't that many families living in such rural communities. I was surprised when my grandmother told me that it was common and not necessarily frowned upon. My grand parents were fourth cousins. I think the Whittakers may have had something more going on with their genetics than just inbreeding. They really aren't that close. I hope that they are a happy and well loved family.
I think their genetic defects may also be the result of environmental pollutants.
It seems it just comes down to their parents being genetic half-siblings. In fact, their parents must have shared almost 50% of their DNA (at least 37,5% on average) considering the ancestral Perkins connection, which was reinforced on their mother’s side, since their maternal grandparents were 1st cousins. It could have been much worse if their paternal grandfather had married the other Riggs sister, in that case it would have been almost equivalent to being genetic siblings, despite them being double first cousins.
In the end it does seem to be a tragic case where the conditions for genetic isolation are mixed with the ignorance of genetics and how they work amongst twins (I personally come from a region where genetic diversity is on the lower end, and have never seen something like this despite having way more endogamic family trees).
That being said, I do have doubts like you. Without wanting to discredit the work that was done, it would be interesting to check out an expanded family tree of the Whittakers, because I have a feeling that at the moment, it was either impossible to get more information about the women's families, or it wasn’t done out of any considerations we don’t know. Knowing I could be wrong, there might be connections we do not know between the Whittakers, Perdues, Hickses, Clyberns, Perkinses, Conways, Riggs and Burtons, either more distant (known) or just geographic (meaning unknown but present), the last one is important since, over time, certain ailments become endemic to populations of certain places, and it isn’t unlikely that the ancestors of this family came from a small set of places, some of which could have even been close enough to each other.
The things our species will do really disgust me sometimes
No they're inter relations are very close. So the parents are double first cousins. basically its would be the same as having a kid with a half-sibling. to put that into prespective, that means the parents would share a 25% genetic overlap. and we can safely assume the interbreeding was going on well before this pairing.
There's a big difference between:
A) 2 generations of 1st cousins in a row marrying, and
B) one instance of 4th cousins marrying!
Your video and family tree was very interesting. The part I am so impressed about is the fact that you could highlight the names so we could follow it very easily. I really enjoyed the video and I think you did a fantastic job.👏👏👏
This makes more sense, seeing the Whittaker family tree drawn out. I thought there was a brother/sister pair, but I must have been mistaken. I just didn’t realize that first cousins marrying a couple times could cause so many genetic issues.
I have been mapping out my own family tree, and it looks like mine has overlapped at least once, possibly twice. Maybe it’s just been so long ago, so our gene pool has recovered? I don’t know. I can say that 1. I’m thankful that my kids and I are genetically ok. 2. The Whittakers definitely have a place in my heart. They never asked their family members to procreate! But seeing how they care for each other, and how they provide for one another warms my heart. Betty, stay healthy! ❤
There kind of is. It was the twin boys who spawned the current families as they interbred. If the twins were identical, there wouldn't have been much difference in their DNA when their children married the others. They'd be more akin to half siblings than 1st cousin. Again, assuming the men were identical twins.
When Betty dies, what will happen to them?
Nursing homes, Mark makes good money off You Tube, maybe he will use some to aid the.. Got to have royalties on some of these channels not just go fund me. They make big money on these.
Wow, dude just found your channel. Subscribed. My father worked as a provincial government genealogist, he's helped people look up long lost relatives. He's also recently done some research pertaining to Black British Olympic competitors from back in the day, some of his research being featured in an article in The Guardian. This channel is the kind of stuff he loves. He retired from his job in 2019 just before the pandemic but continues to do freelance genealogical research.
I heard that they were made fun of at church so they never went back. That breaks my heart 😢
That's so sad, they seems so kind
Right probably the one and only place you should feel free of judgment. I mean maybe unless ur like very off and violent😂
I'm not surprised they were made fun of at the church. I've seen more Godly acting atheist than the devil's who hide in church.
I mean let's be serious if these videos didn't exist and this family showed up to walmart, you kids would be plastering them all over your tik-toks and labeling them Trump supporters and such
I saw the oldest answer the question about going to church, and I believe Lorraine goes with Timmy her son.
Your voice is seriously so calming
Wow !! This is incredible . Your content and your ability to create these family trees is amazing!
I first watched this family on Soft White Underbelly too. They both broke my heart (regarding the disabilities they have gained due to their inter-breeding) & melted it as they are so sweet!! It was absolutely fascinating learning about their family tree, thank you for your hard work researching.
There’s a updated video ❤ on there again
Ahh the Whittakers!! Precious, precious family!! Hope they’re all handling this cold winter well. ❤