This was such a wonderful video; I was nodding along emphatically to all of your points. (I'm not a trained conservator, but I work with paintings restorers here in the UK, so I'm well versed in the ethics). I also find it so frustrating that most of the stories that hit the headlines about conservation are about botched attempts - it doesn't really do much in terms of trying to help raise public awareness and understanding of what conservation is! With this latest one though, it does make me curious about the particular ethics and work practices/approach in furniture restoration, which I know nothing absolutely about, since I only work with paintings.
Thank you! I'm really glad you enjoyed it. It's very interesting to hear from someone who works with paintings restorers. I have to say I don't know much about furniture restoration. Conservators however, do all follow the same codes of ethics. Furniture is a functioning item that is often part of people's 'lived in' space. I think there has been a history with furniture of far more practical restorations to keep them functioning and looking nice - I think refinishing would be done. Definitely something I should find out more about!
I'm sure myself and conservators around the world would agree! I don't know if there is any legal accountability for these kinds of things unfortunately.
@@TheConservationStarter my profile pic is oil (the arms) and acrylic color pour (the background) I enjoyed your show very much, I'll have to check out more episodes.
Greetings from near Perth, WA! I love finding Aussie content creators :) I'm only 3 min into the video but I have a feeling I'm about to binge your entire channel ahahahaha
This video is absolutely wonderful! Informative and fun, the perfect match. Thank you for it! I am a French professional conservator and we need to spread this kind of speech here!
Both very good questions! I think the fault lies with both the person that thought furniture and paintings were the same thing AND the furniture person, who was so over confident that they actually thought they could do it...
I think the biggest whoopsie was what happened with “Orpheus attacked by the Furies”. Apparently they didn’t do the most basic step, which was to test the ink for solubility so when they dunked it in alcohol....whoosh. Bodgers really unfortunately give conservators a bad name. :P
Oh my goodness - I hadn't heard of that botched restoration! Do you know if there are any before and after treatment images? Hopefully people realise trained conservators aren't like that! We can make mistakes, but not to that level and we always manage the risks and do thorough testing!
I had to search for a bit to see if there was a suitable article with any sort of pictures but this was all I could find: aripa-nuances.pagesperso-orange.fr/011212_The_Art_Newspaper.html This happened in 2001, and the damage is unfortunately irreversible, which is expected since I am not sure how you can make a disappeared sketch reappear. Apparently, the Professor was surprised they didn’t test the inks and just dunked it in the alcohol and distilled water. He also states that Da Vinci used vegetable based inks and it looks like those are extremely soluble so again....woosh 😬.
Thank you for the information. It's absolutely terrifying to find out about that! I'm sure there are a lot of botched restorations that we haven't heard about also.
The Conservation Starter I agree that there are probably others that didn’t make the news. But it seems in this day and age, even locally reported news end up on the internet, so it’s nearly impossible to not see unfortunate botchings. Examples of other botches that were so bad include: -The Sistine Chapel cleaning which resulted in many characters loosing their eyes. -The restoration of the “Tree of Fertility” fresco (I feel bad for laughing at this, but I couldn’t help it when the Italian news headlines said “Restoration castrates Tree of Fertility”) -Qing Dynasty frescos in China which now look like something out of a cartoon (the officials didn’t even bother to do a background check on the people they hired to do the restoration). -There were apparently two other Da Vinci sketches that were also botched before the whole incident with “Orpheus and the Furies”. Of course all of these are irreversible.
@@thesilentangel8299 thank you for the information on other botched restorations - some of those I didn't know about! I think you're right - we know about the ones that happen these days. Maybe there are some that occurred in the past that we don't know about, or that might still come to light!
What advice or guidance would you provide where a professional conservator is simply unavailable? I live in a smaller community, and there are no art conservators in private practice in this province. The closest would be about ~1000 km. away. My options are seemingly either use a local amateur or store the item until a conservator decides to relocate closer to my community. (The very same issue applies to finding e.g. qualified plumbers, carpenters, or electricians -- most people employ semi-skilled amateurs as they are all that is available locally.) By way of personal background, I have a graduate degree and I worked in the heritage sector (specifically archives) for more than a decade. I have completed introductory-level training in paper conservation. I am also well aware of the practical constraints facing individual collectors and small institutions, especially those located outside of large metropolitan areas.
That is an excellent question. The reality is there are limited amounts of conservators in private practice, and many people would not find them accessible due to geography, cost and a variety of other factors. My recommendation is to use preventive conservation practices if you want your item/collection to last, rather than plan to do interventive treatments for a single item with possibly disastrous results. If the item is important enough to someone that they want to make it last, it is not worth the risk of a botched conservation treatment! Conservation as a profession has moved more and more to preservation conservation activities rather than just conservation treatment. This looks at preserving whole collections for its whole lifespan, rather than just spending countless hours on just one item (though if the item is important it can definitely warrant the time and effort!). Preventive conservation measures (you might have come across this during your time in the heritage sector) include safe: handling, display, transport and storage (including controlled temperature, humidity and light, preventing pests, correct conservation grade housing, good maintenance to limit dirt and dust etc.). Also digitising your collection is a great way to preserve it to limit handling of the originals. Here are some great videos by the State Library of Queensland on some of these topics: How to safely handle your collection: th-cam.com/video/t_8RNYVz6X0/w-d-xo.html How to house your collection: th-cam.com/video/2VSAARio8BA/w-d-xo.html How to store your collection safely: th-cam.com/video/ONaGQDi6sUY/w-d-xo.html How to digitise your collection: th-cam.com/video/-v5dRwTav40/w-d-xo.html I have more I can share if you're interested! I have a lot more resources I can share with you if you want to know more! My channel is about sharing conservation, but not about creating 'DIY at home', 'conservation treatment how-to' videos. There are a few reasons for this, but the most important is the risk to the object and you, no matter how much experience in heritage you have. I would never presume to do the work of a Registrar, Archivist or Librarian or any other heritage professional. I hope you understand!
I'm afraid I don't know the answer. But I have a sneaking suspicion it can never be brought back to what it was before. It is likely impossible to properly reverse what the amateur restorer did. It is very sad!
It is very hard to see something like this happen - which is why it's so important that people know what conservation is meant to be! The interesting thing is this botched restoration was done on a copy of the original work. While the copy itself is quite old, had value (to society and the owner/collector) and was a beautiful object in it's own right, thankfully there is another example of what it is meant to look like out in the world. I also think the amateur restorer is probably feeling pretty terrible about what they did... especially with all the media and social media coverage of it.
@@TheConservationStarter they managed to restore this one... Maybe there is hope. th-cam.com/video/TFhKZv-fgXs/w-d-xo.html I'm referring to the restoration from the Victorian overpainting to the original portrait.
@@Sassy-qh5nh Thank you very much for sharing. The treatment of Isabella de' Medici portrait by the conservator at the Carnegie certainly gives me hope. There are such talented conservators out there. I just hope they have less botched treatments that they have to reverse in the future!
Ok, a little confused here. The original Murillo is in the Prado, right? Jeebus Cripes its worth tens of millions, did this guy have a copy that was really good or really old? If this was the original im going to faint...
You are correct - this botched restoration was indeed a copy of the Immaculate Conception painting by Murillo. Ultimately, botched amateur restorations shouldn't be done! The issue still is an amateur doing work that should be done by a skilled professional. An interesting thing - copies themselves can in fact be quite important. Often they can be created at a similar time to the originals and can be made by a really skilled or renowned painter. There is a history of copies not being recognised as important artefacts in their own rights and this can have huge repercussions in their care. PLEASE NOTE: I'm talking about copies, not forgeries. How old do copies need to be before they become 'valuable'? If the original is destroyed, does the copy become more important? Some interesting things to think about!
As an art curator do you have to become an professional in just one type of art(for ex. She's a paper art conservator) or can you work with all kinds of art? Whether their paper, glass, or paint.
Hi Amanda, I can't speak for art curators, but as an art conservator it all depends on what course you study and then where you get a job. Some courses let you specialise in only certain material types, for example paper conservator or an objects conservator. Other courses let you specialise in more of a function, for example a conservation scientist or an exhibitions conservator. It all depends on where you study to what specialisations they offer. Then it all depends on where you work. Some really large museums have whole teams that specialise in a material type - for example the textiles conservation team at the Victoria & Albert Museum. You would usually train in textiles and then only work with that material in your role. Other smaller museums only have one conservator for the whole collection. Collections are usually diverse and contain so many materials - ceramics, stone, metal, glass, plastic, paper, paintings, textiles etc. In that kind of role you would preserve and work with all material types and be more of a general conservator. I hope that helps! I recommend you watch my video all about becoming an art conservator: th-cam.com/video/r07b32d2AC8/w-d-xo.html It has all the information and steps you need to know!
@@TheConservationStarter I dream of being an art conservator when I grow up, I just can't explain how much I love classic art. It is so amazing and I also love restoring, It's basically my two favorite things in the word and I can't imagine how great it must be to get paid for doing it!
It’s pretty surreal to have it as a job! It’s so rewarding and conservators are so lucky to be able to see, touch and preserve the things we work on. Good luck on your conservation journey!
It is obviously a hobby in Spain to destroy works of art by amateurs. This is the third one in a couple of years. These would-be artists should be made liable and pay for all possible costs while professional restorations are being executed. That could cost thousands of bucks.
I agree that there should be repercussions for people undertaking amateur restorations and destroying priceless cultural heritage. Unfortunately professional conservation treatments to fix the damage wrought by amateurs can only do so much if they have permanently damaged the original. Interestingly, amateur restorations that wrong happen everywhere, not just Spain. For example: Santa Bárbara (circa 19th century) Santa Cruz da Barra Chapel in Brazil, Buddha statue (ca. 1000) in China, Ocakli Ada Castle (ca. 100) in Turkey, and Mary and Baby Jesus statue (mid 20th-century) Sainte-Anne-des-Pins Catholic Church in Canada.
Short answer: I'm not sure exactly what the amateur restorer did, but I feel like it will be impossible to properly reverse it and bring the painting back to what it was. Long answer: From what I can see from the images available (please note these are my assumptions) the painting likely had discoloured varnish layer which is what the owner wanted cleaned. The amateur attempted to remove it and in the process they likely affected the paint layers, possibly even removing some of them. They then tried to rectify this by overpainting, completely changing the painting. I don't know material they used to overpaint with. It might be possible for a professional painting conservator to reverse some of the overpainting, but I feel like the original painting has been irrevocably damaged. There is now coming back from this.
I'm glad you brought up the monkey christ, as it was most likely done on purpose as it generated tourism for an otherwise unimportant painting by a artist only known because of the botched job. This painting garnered more revenue in its present state than it ever would have before. Thanks for reading I really enjoy your videos ... um bye.
Hello! I had heard about the tourism as an interesting result of the botched art restoration of Monkey Christ. I'd like to think that no one would willingly destroy cultural heritage to generate money and tourism! I'm hoping that was just an unexpected outcome... and no one uses that situation as an example to try it themselves. Thank you! I'm glad you like my videos.
Thats very ignorant to think . And no that ladies actual art work was pretty good.I dont know though why she messed up that one . However it was not a very relevant piece so I dont know why we need to slander and speculate
Hello - I would just like to say no matter how good an artist is it doesn't mean they are good at art conservation or restoration. In this case the ladies original artwork could be fantastic but that is very different from her being able to conserve artworks by another artist and ensure she doesn't change the original material, intention and interpretation. Monkey Christ is a case in point - professionals who are trained and experienced should preserve our valuable cultural heritage. Not people (who undoubtedly have other skills and good intentions) that have no skills in conservation, knowledge or training and as a result destroy artworks.
Oh it was not done to attract tourists that's for sure, the lady who "restored" the painting was 81 at the time and she attended regularly to that church so she wanted to do something for the place she used to go to praise the Lord and just like you said it is an "unimportant" painting so for her she would be doing something nice for her church and people would think it's nice, she started painting and messed it up but she continued painting in order to fix it (her own words). So she had good intentions and acted from ignorance, not from spite
I want to go to art university for art restorer, but first of all, I am scared I will not get in, second, that if I get in, I won't be good enough, and third even if I finish that I won't find job 🙁
Hello, those are some very valid concerns! I think I have some information to help. 1. Some conservation courses are incredibly hard to get, but others aren't as difficult, nor require much experience before hand. Here are some resources on becoming a conservator. You will be able to find some courses through these websites and look at the entry requirements. Often if you don't get in the first time you can re-apply. I know people, especially for courses that are difficult to get into, that have applied multiple times. Australia: aiccm.org.au/conservation/become-a-conservator/ Europe: www.encore-edu.org/specialisations.htm Ireland: www.icriconservation.ie/training-to-become-a-conservator United Kingdom: icon.org.uk/training United States of America: www.culturalheritage.org/about-conservation/become-a-conservator 2. We all face the fear that we are not good enough at some or even all parts of our lives. It's fine to have these doubts, as long as they don't control us or our decisions and actions. There are so many different types of conservators - there are some that specialise in management, some that specialise in paintings conservation (treatment), some in exhibition conservation. While they are all part of the role of conservator, they have very different focuses. I like to think that while I could never be a conservation scientist (I do NOT have the skills and knowledge) other people can. Just as some people would never think they could be a paper conservator - maybe they instead want to be a preventive conservator. We need this variety of conservators. 3. The job market is tough - there is no escaping that. Especially in this current global climate. Trained conservators have faced this reality for years. A lot of my classmates went on to find jobs in allied industries instead. There are options out there, but with such specialised training and not many jobs it can be tricky. It is something you need to decide for yourself if you want to go for it and see how it works out. Maybe if it isn't an option for you now, maybe it could be in the future. All the best!
The Conservation Starter Thank you so much for putting link for europe, I appriciate it. I think I really am going for it. Because I am senior in highschool, when I finish it, my calling will be economist. But I want college degree to, so I am gonna try to get in in ALU Zagreb. ♥️ Have a nice day, xx
So anyone can join an international or national body and there are seldom ramifications for acting against or violating said Code of Ethics for any and each (a slight slap of the hand MAYBE). So that means the furniture restorer COULD have been a member of anything. Plus the press have never seemed to have obtained a before treatment image of the most recent botched job, which was a COPY of that beautiful Murillo painting. Still waiting too see that surface. Probably won't happen until the thing is professionally cleaned.
Hello! I know any system is not perfect, but I do think the international and national bodies are better than nothing. Not just anyone wants to pay the membership fee to become a member. Also to become a professional or accredited member (title differs depending on the country you in), is definitely not possible to do unless you prove yourself through stringent and involved processes. Unfortunately, this is a barrier to some conservators obtaining this designation. Like I said, no system is perfect. I would love to continue this discussion with you if you're interested - please reach out to me via my email - conservation.starter@gmail.com
@@TheConservationStarter @The Conservation Starter totally agree that not everyone wants to pay the fees....and those people will continue to botch artwork in basements no matter what. However there is something even more insidious about a self-proclaimed "professional" joining these groups and then ADVERTISING the fact that they joined as a sort of right of passage. These things are then loudly proclaimed on websites for businesses and well....the rest is history. And artwork still suffers. The national and international bodies are completely aware that this happens and even after receiving decades of complaints and reports they have done nothing. I would say the UK and Canada have done well to advance with certification in the manner that they have. The others have made things far worse in the private sector by continuing to avoid the issue altogether.
That is really interesting! I am bound by my context in Australia so it’s really good to hear how it is other countries and specific situations. I’m sorry to hear that people have been taking advantage of the system. Hopefully other countries can follow the UK’s and Canada’s lead as you’ve mentioned.
When a restoration is like this I 100% agree. I think it's important to differentiate: - restoration by amateurs (like what I talk about in this video); - restoration: returning an item to an 'as new' condition; and - conservation: what conservators do. Following a code of ethics and code of practice to stabilise and preserve an item to ensure it does not deteriorate. This involves not changing the item from what the original maker intended, retaining all original elements, and ensuring the treatment is minimal, reversible and detectable.
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This was such a wonderful video; I was nodding along emphatically to all of your points. (I'm not a trained conservator, but I work with paintings restorers here in the UK, so I'm well versed in the ethics). I also find it so frustrating that most of the stories that hit the headlines about conservation are about botched attempts - it doesn't really do much in terms of trying to help raise public awareness and understanding of what conservation is!
With this latest one though, it does make me curious about the particular ethics and work practices/approach in furniture restoration, which I know nothing absolutely about, since I only work with paintings.
Thank you! I'm really glad you enjoyed it. It's very interesting to hear from someone who works with paintings restorers.
I have to say I don't know much about furniture restoration. Conservators however, do all follow the same codes of ethics. Furniture is a functioning item that is often part of people's 'lived in' space. I think there has been a history with furniture of far more practical restorations to keep them functioning and looking nice - I think refinishing would be done. Definitely something I should find out more about!
I am crying! People that destroy art like this should be held criminally responsible and should be made to do time behind bars.
I'm sure myself and conservators around the world would agree! I don't know if there is any legal accountability for these kinds of things unfortunately.
*I botch my own own paintings... while making them in the first place.* 🤣
I think we're all guilty of that!
@@TheConservationStarter my profile pic is oil (the arms) and acrylic color pour (the background) I enjoyed your show very much, I'll have to check out more episodes.
Greetings from near Perth, WA! I love finding Aussie content creators :) I'm only 3 min into the video but I have a feeling I'm about to binge your entire channel ahahahaha
Greetings from Canberra! I'm delighted you found my videos and hope you like them.
This video is absolutely wonderful! Informative and fun, the perfect match. Thank you for it! I am a French professional conservator and we need to spread this kind of speech here!
I'm so glad you found the video informative and enjoyable - it means a lot to hear from a fellow conservator!
Why would anyone take painting to a furniture restoration place and why would so someone who works on wood even try a painting?
Both very good questions! I think the fault lies with both the person that thought furniture and paintings were the same thing AND the furniture person, who was so over confident that they actually thought they could do it...
These amateur restorations are so pervasive and insipient. Not just in art, but in all fields that deal with artifacts.
I agree - but it seems that the amateur restorations of art are the most publicised.
Hopefully we can continue to raise awareness of it!
I think the biggest whoopsie was what happened with “Orpheus attacked by the Furies”.
Apparently they didn’t do the most basic step, which was to test the ink for solubility so when they dunked it in alcohol....whoosh.
Bodgers really unfortunately give conservators a bad name. :P
Oh my goodness - I hadn't heard of that botched restoration! Do you know if there are any before and after treatment images?
Hopefully people realise trained conservators aren't like that! We can make mistakes, but not to that level and we always manage the risks and do thorough testing!
I had to search for a bit to see if there was a suitable article with any sort of pictures but this was all I could find:
aripa-nuances.pagesperso-orange.fr/011212_The_Art_Newspaper.html
This happened in 2001, and the damage is unfortunately irreversible, which is expected since I am not sure how you can make a disappeared sketch reappear.
Apparently, the Professor was surprised they didn’t test the inks and just dunked it in the alcohol and distilled water.
He also states that Da Vinci used vegetable based inks and it looks like those are extremely soluble so again....woosh 😬.
Thank you for the information. It's absolutely terrifying to find out about that!
I'm sure there are a lot of botched restorations that we haven't heard about also.
The Conservation Starter
I agree that there are probably others that didn’t make the news.
But it seems in this day and age, even locally reported news end up on the internet, so it’s nearly impossible to not see unfortunate botchings.
Examples of other botches that were so bad include:
-The Sistine Chapel cleaning which resulted in many characters loosing their eyes.
-The restoration of the “Tree of Fertility” fresco (I feel bad for laughing at this, but I couldn’t help it when the Italian news headlines said “Restoration castrates Tree of Fertility”)
-Qing Dynasty frescos in China which now look like something out of a cartoon (the officials didn’t even bother to do a background check on the people they hired to do the restoration).
-There were apparently two other Da Vinci sketches that were also botched before the whole incident with “Orpheus and the Furies”.
Of course all of these are irreversible.
@@thesilentangel8299 thank you for the information on other botched restorations - some of those I didn't know about!
I think you're right - we know about the ones that happen these days. Maybe there are some that occurred in the past that we don't know about, or that might still come to light!
What do you think of the latest botched art restoration? Think it's better/worse/more horrific than Monkey Christ?
What advice or guidance would you provide where a professional conservator is simply unavailable? I live in a smaller community, and there are no art conservators in private practice in this province. The closest would be about ~1000 km. away. My options are seemingly either use a local amateur or store the item until a conservator decides to relocate closer to my community. (The very same issue applies to finding e.g. qualified plumbers, carpenters, or electricians -- most people employ semi-skilled amateurs as they are all that is available locally.)
By way of personal background, I have a graduate degree and I worked in the heritage sector (specifically archives) for more than a decade. I have completed introductory-level training in paper conservation. I am also well aware of the practical constraints facing individual collectors and small institutions, especially those located outside of large metropolitan areas.
That is an excellent question. The reality is there are limited amounts of conservators in private practice, and many people would not find them accessible due to geography, cost and a variety of other factors.
My recommendation is to use preventive conservation practices if you want your item/collection to last, rather than plan to do interventive treatments for a single item with possibly disastrous results. If the item is important enough to someone that they want to make it last, it is not worth the risk of a botched conservation treatment!
Conservation as a profession has moved more and more to preservation conservation activities rather than just conservation treatment. This looks at preserving whole collections for its whole lifespan, rather than just spending countless hours on just one item (though if the item is important it can definitely warrant the time and effort!).
Preventive conservation measures (you might have come across this during your time in the heritage sector) include safe: handling, display, transport and storage (including controlled temperature, humidity and light, preventing pests, correct conservation grade housing, good maintenance to limit dirt and dust etc.). Also digitising your collection is a great way to preserve it to limit handling of the originals. Here are some great videos by the State Library of Queensland on some of these topics:
How to safely handle your collection: th-cam.com/video/t_8RNYVz6X0/w-d-xo.html
How to house your collection: th-cam.com/video/2VSAARio8BA/w-d-xo.html
How to store your collection safely: th-cam.com/video/ONaGQDi6sUY/w-d-xo.html
How to digitise your collection: th-cam.com/video/-v5dRwTav40/w-d-xo.html
I have more I can share if you're interested!
I have a lot more resources I can share with you if you want to know more!
My channel is about sharing conservation, but not about creating 'DIY at home', 'conservation treatment how-to' videos. There are a few reasons for this, but the most important is the risk to the object and you, no matter how much experience in heritage you have. I would never presume to do the work of a Registrar, Archivist or Librarian or any other heritage professional. I hope you understand!
I know my limits and I thank you for this.
Thank you for watching!
Can the original be restored.....what was the follow-ups? Is it lost forever 😭
I'm afraid I don't know the answer. But I have a sneaking suspicion it can never be brought back to what it was before. It is likely impossible to properly reverse what the amateur restorer did. It is very sad!
@@TheConservationStarter Oh GOD!!! It's absolutely sad to see this happen. How can that person bear to destroy such a beautiful piece of art....
It is very hard to see something like this happen - which is why it's so important that people know what conservation is meant to be!
The interesting thing is this botched restoration was done on a copy of the original work. While the copy itself is quite old, had value (to society and the owner/collector) and was a beautiful object in it's own right, thankfully there is another example of what it is meant to look like out in the world.
I also think the amateur restorer is probably feeling pretty terrible about what they did... especially with all the media and social media coverage of it.
@@TheConservationStarter they managed to restore this one... Maybe there is hope. th-cam.com/video/TFhKZv-fgXs/w-d-xo.html
I'm referring to the restoration from the Victorian overpainting to the original portrait.
@@Sassy-qh5nh Thank you very much for sharing. The treatment of Isabella de' Medici portrait by the conservator at the Carnegie certainly gives me hope. There are such talented conservators out there. I just hope they have less botched treatments that they have to reverse in the future!
Ok, a little confused here. The original Murillo is in the Prado, right? Jeebus Cripes its worth tens of millions, did this guy have a copy that was really good or really old? If this was the original im going to faint...
You are correct - this botched restoration was indeed a copy of the Immaculate Conception painting by Murillo. Ultimately, botched amateur restorations shouldn't be done! The issue still is an amateur doing work that should be done by a skilled professional.
An interesting thing - copies themselves can in fact be quite important. Often they can be created at a similar time to the originals and can be made by a really skilled or renowned painter. There is a history of copies not being recognised as important artefacts in their own rights and this can have huge repercussions in their care. PLEASE NOTE: I'm talking about copies, not forgeries.
How old do copies need to be before they become 'valuable'? If the original is destroyed, does the copy become more important? Some interesting things to think about!
As an art curator do you have to become an professional in just one type of art(for ex. She's a paper art conservator) or can you work with all kinds of art? Whether their paper, glass, or paint.
Hi Amanda, I can't speak for art curators, but as an art conservator it all depends on what course you study and then where you get a job.
Some courses let you specialise in only certain material types, for example paper conservator or an objects conservator. Other courses let you specialise in more of a function, for example a conservation scientist or an exhibitions conservator. It all depends on where you study to what specialisations they offer.
Then it all depends on where you work. Some really large museums have whole teams that specialise in a material type - for example the textiles conservation team at the Victoria & Albert Museum. You would usually train in textiles and then only work with that material in your role. Other smaller museums only have one conservator for the whole collection. Collections are usually diverse and contain so many materials - ceramics, stone, metal, glass, plastic, paper, paintings, textiles etc. In that kind of role you would preserve and work with all material types and be more of a general conservator. I hope that helps!
I recommend you watch my video all about becoming an art conservator: th-cam.com/video/r07b32d2AC8/w-d-xo.html
It has all the information and steps you need to know!
@@TheConservationStarter Hello, thank you so much for answering my question it really helped me understand! I will definitely watch the video😁
You’re very welcome! Art conservation isn’t well known about so I love telling people about it :)
@@TheConservationStarter I dream of being an art conservator when I grow up, I just can't explain how much I love classic art. It is so amazing and I also love restoring, It's basically my two favorite things in the word and I can't imagine how great it must be to get paid for doing it!
It’s pretty surreal to have it as a job! It’s so rewarding and conservators are so lucky to be able to see, touch and preserve the things we work on.
Good luck on your conservation journey!
ima have nightmares
I do too!
Perhaps if 'Conservators' didn't charge fifty times what lessor restorers do, they would be used more often....
It is obviously a hobby in Spain to destroy works of art by amateurs. This is the third one in a couple of years. These would-be artists should be made liable and pay for all possible costs while professional restorations are being executed. That could cost thousands of bucks.
I agree that there should be repercussions for people undertaking amateur restorations and destroying priceless cultural heritage. Unfortunately professional conservation treatments to fix the damage wrought by amateurs can only do so much if they have permanently damaged the original.
Interestingly, amateur restorations that wrong happen everywhere, not just Spain. For example: Santa Bárbara (circa 19th century)
Santa Cruz da Barra Chapel in Brazil, Buddha statue (ca. 1000) in China, Ocakli Ada Castle (ca. 100) in Turkey, and Mary and Baby Jesus statue (mid 20th-century)
Sainte-Anne-des-Pins Catholic Church in Canada.
I bet the painter painted over everything on the surface, wouldnt it be possible to remove it?
Short answer: I'm not sure exactly what the amateur restorer did, but I feel like it will be impossible to properly reverse it and bring the painting back to what it was.
Long answer: From what I can see from the images available (please note these are my assumptions) the painting likely had discoloured varnish layer which is what the owner wanted cleaned. The amateur attempted to remove it and in the process they likely affected the paint layers, possibly even removing some of them. They then tried to rectify this by overpainting, completely changing the painting.
I don't know material they used to overpaint with. It might be possible for a professional painting conservator to reverse some of the overpainting, but I feel like the original painting has been irrevocably damaged. There is now coming back from this.
I'm glad you brought up the monkey christ, as it was most likely done on purpose as it generated tourism for an otherwise unimportant painting by a artist only known because of the botched job. This painting garnered more revenue in its present state than it ever would have before. Thanks for reading I really enjoy your videos ... um bye.
Hello! I had heard about the tourism as an interesting result of the botched art restoration of Monkey Christ. I'd like to think that no one would willingly destroy cultural heritage to generate money and tourism! I'm hoping that was just an unexpected outcome... and no one uses that situation as an example to try it themselves.
Thank you! I'm glad you like my videos.
Thats very ignorant to think . And no that ladies actual art work was pretty good.I dont know though why she messed up that one . However it was not a very relevant piece so I dont know why we need to slander and speculate
Hello - I would just like to say no matter how good an artist is it doesn't mean they are good at art conservation or restoration. In this case the ladies original artwork could be fantastic but that is very different from her being able to conserve artworks by another artist and ensure she doesn't change the original material, intention and interpretation.
Monkey Christ is a case in point - professionals who are trained and experienced should preserve our valuable cultural heritage. Not people (who undoubtedly have other skills and good intentions) that have no skills in conservation, knowledge or training and as a result destroy artworks.
Oh it was not done to attract tourists that's for sure, the lady who "restored" the painting was 81 at the time and she attended regularly to that church so she wanted to do something for the place she used to go to praise the Lord and just like you said it is an "unimportant" painting so for her she would be doing something nice for her church and people would think it's nice, she started painting and messed it up but she continued painting in order to fix it (her own words). So she had good intentions and acted from ignorance, not from spite
I want to go to art university for art restorer, but first of all, I am scared I will not get in, second, that if I get in, I won't be good enough, and third even if I finish that I won't find job 🙁
Hello, those are some very valid concerns! I think I have some information to help.
1. Some conservation courses are incredibly hard to get, but others aren't as difficult, nor require much experience before hand.
Here are some resources on becoming a conservator. You will be able to find some courses through these websites and look at the entry requirements. Often if you don't get in the first time you can re-apply. I know people, especially for courses that are difficult to get into, that have applied multiple times.
Australia: aiccm.org.au/conservation/become-a-conservator/
Europe: www.encore-edu.org/specialisations.htm
Ireland: www.icriconservation.ie/training-to-become-a-conservator
United Kingdom: icon.org.uk/training
United States of America: www.culturalheritage.org/about-conservation/become-a-conservator
2. We all face the fear that we are not good enough at some or even all parts of our lives. It's fine to have these doubts, as long as they don't control us or our decisions and actions. There are so many different types of conservators - there are some that specialise in management, some that specialise in paintings conservation (treatment), some in exhibition conservation. While they are all part of the role of conservator, they have very different focuses. I like to think that while I could never be a conservation scientist (I do NOT have the skills and knowledge) other people can. Just as some people would never think they could be a paper conservator - maybe they instead want to be a preventive conservator. We need this variety of conservators.
3. The job market is tough - there is no escaping that. Especially in this current global climate. Trained conservators have faced this reality for years. A lot of my classmates went on to find jobs in allied industries instead. There are options out there, but with such specialised training and not many jobs it can be tricky. It is something you need to decide for yourself if you want to go for it and see how it works out. Maybe if it isn't an option for you now, maybe it could be in the future.
All the best!
The Conservation Starter Thank you so much for putting link for europe, I appriciate it. I think I really am going for it. Because I am senior in highschool, when I finish it, my calling will be economist. But I want college degree to, so I am gonna try to get in in ALU Zagreb. ♥️
Have a nice day, xx
You’re very welcome. All the best with your future studies!
So anyone can join an international or national body and there are seldom ramifications for acting against or violating said Code of Ethics for any and each (a slight slap of the hand MAYBE). So that means the furniture restorer COULD have been a member of anything. Plus the press have never seemed to have obtained a before treatment image of the most recent botched job, which was a COPY of that beautiful Murillo painting. Still waiting too see that surface. Probably won't happen until the thing is professionally cleaned.
Hello! I know any system is not perfect, but I do think the international and national bodies are better than nothing. Not just anyone wants to pay the membership fee to become a member. Also to become a professional or accredited member (title differs depending on the country you in), is definitely not possible to do unless you prove yourself through stringent and involved processes. Unfortunately, this is a barrier to some conservators obtaining this designation. Like I said, no system is perfect.
I would love to continue this discussion with you if you're interested - please reach out to me via my email - conservation.starter@gmail.com
@@TheConservationStarter @The Conservation Starter totally agree that not everyone wants to pay the fees....and those people will continue to botch artwork in basements no matter what. However there is something even more insidious about a self-proclaimed "professional" joining these groups and then ADVERTISING the fact that they joined as a sort of right of passage. These things are then loudly proclaimed on websites for businesses and well....the rest is history. And artwork still suffers. The national and international bodies are completely aware that this happens and even after receiving decades of complaints and reports they have done nothing. I would say the UK and Canada have done well to advance with certification in the manner that they have. The others have made things far worse in the private sector by continuing to avoid the issue altogether.
That is really interesting! I am bound by my context in Australia so it’s really good to hear how it is other countries and specific situations. I’m sorry to hear that people have been taking advantage of the system. Hopefully other countries can follow the UK’s and Canada’s lead as you’ve mentioned.
She looks identical to the portrait that was botched!
Thank you, I think?
Once an original is restored uts no longer the same painting. To me worthless.
When a restoration is like this I 100% agree. I think it's important to differentiate:
- restoration by amateurs (like what I talk about in this video);
- restoration: returning an item to an 'as new' condition; and
- conservation: what conservators do. Following a code of ethics and code of practice to stabilise and preserve an item to ensure it does not deteriorate. This involves not changing the item from what the original maker intended, retaining all original elements, and ensuring the treatment is minimal, reversible and detectable.
@@TheConservationStarter thank you for that response very informative
wow! you are gorgeous
Your reaction was like 5% of the video.... change the title to "An Brief Explanation of my opinions generally on Art Conservation"