I never did any grinding in this game as a kid. I didn't even know what grinding was, just played straight through. I don't understand why so many reviewers keep talking about Shining Force 2 having so much grinding and difficulty when a twelve year old kid just ran through it.
Never apply as a "professional" gamer review if these simple guys are simple, they need to be super hard and something simple as jump is too complicated :)
The difference between the first and second games on a music level is because they switched composers between 1 and 2. Shining Force 1 was done by Masahiko Yoshimura, while 2 was done by Motoaki Takenouchi
Roger Thoman -agreed. I don’t remember it from my childhood but, I picked up a 2018 Sega genesis flashback hd “the good model” a few months ago. Now that we’re all in quarantine I had nothing to do, I decided to give Shining Force 2 a try. I’d have to say it plays remarkably well, even in 2020. I’d have to put it up there with Phantasy Star 4 and Lunar the Silver Star among my favorite old school RPGs.
This guys entire argument is flawed from the get go.... how many times does he mention “diablo” Dude.....Diablo is a pc game that came out like 5 years after this. Comparing apples to rocks...... This game is stellar top to bottom. Spend the time setting characters like kiwi up.....and once you get past the initial weak period..... he’s a beast mid game..... until ultimately falling behind late in the game, not because of his attack.....but because his HP never climb......
I think it is more like “Bow-ie” as in David, but that being said, the town in Maryland and the historical figure do pronounce it “BOO-EY“ This game is amazing. Replay value is high, and even 20+ years later is still a lot of fun.
I just finished the game for like the 50th time. Looking for a different challenge i played the entire game only using Bowie, jaha, Chester, and Sarah. I only grinded in the very first battle when you leave the castle just to get a little boost but other then that since all the exp was divided between only 4 people no other grinding was needed. Wasnt too bad, hardest battle was the one where all the mudmen kept respawning them things hit hard.
I'm with ya bro, going through the whole game with the mission of "save the princess" but the princess is absent from most the story. So who cares if you end up with the hot princess? There's a perfectly gorgeous, blue haired, elf-like chick you've known since childhood who spent the whole game supporting you (and in my version also became a badass warrior monk). Why not choose Sarah? A hot bad ass warrior-healer with proven track record of being an indispensable partner. Given that context it's hard to be sold the consolation prize for saving the world from evil, the princess.
6 ปีที่แล้ว +9
i must have played this game like 5 times until the end
While I do not think Shining Force 2 is a perfect game, I do find it bizarre that you compare it to Diablo or Undertale. Both of those titles have their fan base, to be sure, but they are remarkably different types of rpg.
Gotta agree with 99% of what you said. But I have to respectfully disagree in regards of the whole "grinding" aspect. Personally I beat that game - more or less - on an annually basis (yes, I am that stoopid) and it is doable on Super difficulty without grinding. In hindsight I thought it was more difficult as I have had barely any characters dying until now. Just standing outside of Moun right now. Sarah died the first time as a MMNK for instance. Annoying is as you said the fact that you have literally no idea where you have to go at some point if you are playing for the first time. I also strongly agree in regards of the middle of the game as its weakest point. The cave fights annoy me every time I have to do them and generally some party feel really lenghty like the part where you have to go to through the cave to North Parmecia until the Bridge Fight (which I like). Same applies in my view thereafter between the fight inside of Pacalon until you make it to Nazca and the first 2 or 3 fights back on Grans. Great review though! As I said I agree with most of your points! :)
The sega smash pack 2 cd, with comix zone, kid shameleon, vectorman, sonic 2, shining force, superhangon racing. I still have that cd :3 they were mostly all good games
Very good review. I agree on many things, but I think there are many aspects to this game that you missed. To name a few: the game rewards patience by making the slower leveling characters better on the long run than the faster leveling ones. Using strategy and choosing moves carefully alows you to gain more levels per battle and grind less or not at all, punishing players who just charge into battle without thinking ahead (again, rewarding patience). And then there's the roleplaying aspect, that you barely touch on: I think that Bowie gets a lot of characterization. How? Well, he is the leader of the force, he chooses who goes to battle and who stays at headquarters, and how the force fights. Is he an insecure leader who needs his childhood friends fighting alongside him even though they aren't good fighters? Or is he a cold-hearted man who ditches his friends for mercenaries who don't care about the cause? Is he a bloodthirsty fighter who wants to get the killing blow on enemy generals? Is he a coward who stays in the back and doesn't have the balls to get close to strong enemies? Does he frequently get outsmarted in battle? You may think that I'm over-analysing but I think this is what role-playing is about. However, I agree with you on the ending, the ending SUCKS.
I agree that the characters are unbalanced GREATLY, and some of the amount that allies can improve make no sense rationally. Old, already experienced fighters and casters should not be improving the same amount or better than ones who have yet to live up to their potential or have otherwise made a decision not to continue with their development. The game designers also missed an opportunity to balance different characters within the same class. If you're going to have a variety of characters, might as well vary their potential - one can have potential for highest HP, other for highest DEF, other for highest ATK or some able to have a bigger gain depending on which weapon or staff they have. You're also right in that the experience system as implemented in this turn based system does leave room for improvement as it does force faster (higher agility and movement) characters to nerf themselves in order to allow others to catch up. I get there are slower characters in real life, but there's got to be some mechanic that allows for the bruisers to gain experience. I say take agility out of the equation - at least for allies. Movement and land terrain is already a handicap. They can also give less of a boost to final blows and allow for any confrontation (hit or miss) to gain experience. Hell, one can argue someone who misses actually learns more. Maybe an exp boost for everyone on the team after a win. I do think you're overstating about how much grinding is required to complete the game. It's very minimal and other RPGs I've played require MUCH more. I personally actually replay lost battles instead of grinding for a guaranteed win, but others may prefer to build their characters. Nonetheless, it seems to be a good balance of not being too easy while allowing people to play the game how they want. Astral is definitely a well structured character. He's able to drive the storyline while still having the lightness Shining Force is loved for. I also love the occasional steampunk feel to the series, as it adds so much depth and sets it apart from other RPG franchises. I especially like that they're rudimentary in their construction as to make sure they're not OP, but enough to show that the people of the time were interested in advancing their technology.
Which given his gameplay videos he doesn't use master monks or any alternate promotion for that matter. No wonder he sucks at this game. Probably doesn't even know about mithril.
Most people do grind to get their SF II characters to lvl 40 before promoting them, while the less patient will try for lvl 30. If they ever remake both SF I & II (and that's a HUGE if) perhaps they should institute a "beginner's mode" for faster leveling & gold acquisition like they did with the Japan-only PS2 version of Phantasy Star II. That's my take on the issue. 🤓
I don’t mind the grind... all his following complaints.... about the grind and refusing to do the simple member status check to see order of moving party and protecting your party. Grinding for an amor piece means you NEED something to keep you going and don’t actually enjoy the game play or FULL strategy needed. Story in the middle is the best part while also acquiring some of the best units. But someone only interested in the destination and not the journey won’t be up that. And Shining force Is the best one regardless of critic since the simplistic nature of the game is why it holds up. Hearing a 20 year old complain about graphics is just torture for those who grew up on this stuff. Enjoy your Amor pieces I will take my shinning force any day all day.
this kind of games i througly recommend playing on an emulator where you can speed up the emulation. Even as a child with tons of spare time i thought that (and loved the game). The one on steam has a speed up key but it's kind of uncontrollable and adds an annoying screen effect so i can¡t recommend that one.
I dont understand what about this game is a grind, unless you just aren't that great at managing to split xp effectively throughout your team which really isn't that hard. Also you mentioned healers like they were fragile or something when they are so op. They hit just as hard as everyone else in the beginning so they get xp every turn and level crazy fast. Then you turn them into monks and they two shot everything.
What the.... lol, I also played this game as a kid on a pc port. Was my very first rpg next to final fantasy 7. And I also didn't liked the ending cause I was shipping the main character with Sarah. XD Like serious, did he even talk to the princess even once besides the moment she got kidnapped? XD And while I certainly can absolutly agree with your complains about the difficulty (this freakin kraken) and the grinding, I still love this game and even play it from time to time if I'm in the mood. ^^ It's actually kinda odd, cause usual I'm not so much into fantasy medival jrpgs and prefer the ones that have a more modern or futuristic setting (like the persona series and final fantasy 7), but this I can't resist but love. gues it's the wonderfull and colorfull artstyle. ^^
Sarah gets together with Kazin. They show up in Shining and the Holy Ark I believe, but their names were mistranslated in the english version and they aren't playable
Frustrated that you cannot predict when or where enemies move and have to refight battles, because of difficult victory requirements as well as being certain to lose at least 1 or 2 of your party members? Never play the Vandal Hearts series on PS1. Great strategy RPGs but damn difficult... and bloody. Difficulty spikes? Not knowing what to do next? SaGa Frontier II comes to my mind. Dunno if I still would have that much difficulty with it 20 years later, but then this game frustrated me greatly. Want a boring Strategy/Tactical RPG? In my opinion "Eternal Eyes" and "Master of Monsters" for PS1 can fill the spot quite nicely. Maybe my personal opinion from, again, 20 years ago, but I hardly doubt they have gotten any better with time. .... and since when is Diablo a strategy RPG? The version I remember playing was: Choose character archetype and bash in monster hordes. Get loot, level up and... why the F* can't I story my stuff in a chest instead of having to drop it in town square.
Hey my dude, your videos are always fantastic. Doing my best to promote your channel to friends of mine that might be interested. Keep up the amazing work!
I think that's where the biggest debate is. I wish the game gave a choice on whether to wake the princess or not. If you don't, the princess wakes up on her own. If you do, Kazin goes off to comfort Sarah. Either way, everyone should be happy.
I never did any grinding in this game as a kid. I didn't even know what grinding was, just played straight through. I don't understand why so many reviewers keep talking about Shining Force 2 having so much grinding and difficulty when a twelve year old kid just ran through it.
truly baffling!
Never apply as a "professional" gamer review if these simple guys are simple, they need to be super hard and something simple as jump is too complicated :)
I never had to grind this, either
It depends on the difficulty you choose at the begining
The difference between the first and second games on a music level is because they switched composers between 1 and 2. Shining Force 1 was done by Masahiko Yoshimura, while 2 was done by Motoaki Takenouchi
This game was an underappreciated masterpiece
Roger Thoman -agreed. I don’t remember it from my childhood but, I picked up a 2018 Sega genesis flashback hd “the good model” a few months ago. Now that we’re all in quarantine I had nothing to do, I decided to give Shining Force 2 a try. I’d have to say it plays remarkably well, even in 2020. I’d have to put it up there with Phantasy Star 4 and Lunar the Silver Star among my favorite old school RPGs.
The main character in games like this doesn't talk because it's implied that you construct your own response, thus Role Playing.
This guys entire argument is flawed from the get go.... how many times does he mention “diablo”
Dude.....Diablo is a pc game that came out like 5 years after this.
Comparing apples to rocks......
This game is stellar top to bottom.
Spend the time setting characters like kiwi up.....and once you get past the initial weak period..... he’s a beast mid game..... until ultimately falling behind late in the game, not because of his attack.....but because his HP never climb......
I know! Like, why diablo all the time?
Scott Natale he admires it. That was also one of the first things he said.
Shining force 2 is the greatest game of all time and should be remade twice as long
Diablo, really? Maybe compare Dark Souls to Fifa next time...
I think it is more like “Bow-ie” as in David, but that being said, the town in Maryland and the historical figure do pronounce it “BOO-EY“
This game is amazing. Replay value is high, and even 20+ years later is still a lot of fun.
Maryland rules
I just finished the game for like the 50th time. Looking for a different challenge i played the entire game only using Bowie, jaha, Chester, and Sarah. I only grinded in the very first battle when you leave the castle just to get a little boost but other then that since all the exp was divided between only 4 people no other grinding was needed. Wasnt too bad, hardest battle was the one where all the mudmen kept respawning them things hit hard.
It is time for SEGA to revive Phantasy Star, Skies Of Arcadia, MAKE NEW RPG ACTION AND TURN BASE AND RPG SIMULATION and SHINING FORCE!
I'm with ya bro, going through the whole game with the mission of "save the princess" but the princess is absent from most the story. So who cares if you end up with the hot princess? There's a perfectly gorgeous, blue haired, elf-like chick you've known since childhood who spent the whole game supporting you (and in my version also became a badass warrior monk). Why not choose Sarah? A hot bad ass warrior-healer with proven track record of being an indispensable partner. Given that context it's hard to be sold the consolation prize for saving the world from evil, the princess.
i must have played this game like 5 times until the end
i beat this game 30 or 40 times and it NEVER gets old EVER!!
I only played it twice lol
Booey? Are we jet skiing? It's (hair)Bow-e...like David Bowie hence the hair..
Came here to post that. BOW-E. David Bowie. The bow of an arrow. The bow in a girl's hair. BOW. E.
or its like a Bowie knife, which is pronounced Boo-Ee.
While I do not think Shining Force 2 is a perfect game, I do find it bizarre that you compare it to Diablo or Undertale. Both of those titles have their fan base, to be sure, but they are remarkably different types of rpg.
Gotta agree with 99% of what you said. But I have to respectfully disagree in regards of the whole "grinding" aspect. Personally I beat that game - more or less - on an annually basis (yes, I am that stoopid) and it is doable on Super difficulty without grinding. In hindsight I thought it was more difficult as I have had barely any characters dying until now. Just standing outside of Moun right now. Sarah died the first time as a MMNK for instance. Annoying is as you said the fact that you have literally no idea where you have to go at some point if you are playing for the first time.
I also strongly agree in regards of the middle of the game as its weakest point. The cave fights annoy me every time I have to do them and generally some party feel really lenghty like the part where you have to go to through the cave to North Parmecia until the Bridge Fight (which I like). Same applies in my view thereafter between the fight inside of Pacalon until you make it to Nazca and the first 2 or 3 fights back on Grans.
Great review though! As I said I agree with most of your points! :)
The sega smash pack 2 cd, with comix zone, kid shameleon, vectorman, sonic 2, shining force, superhangon racing. I still have that cd :3 they were mostly all good games
Very good review. I agree on many things, but I think there are many aspects to this game that you missed. To name a few: the game rewards patience by making the slower leveling characters better on the long run than the faster leveling ones. Using strategy and choosing moves carefully alows you to gain more levels per battle and grind less or not at all, punishing players who just charge into battle without thinking ahead (again, rewarding patience). And then there's the roleplaying aspect, that you barely touch on: I think that Bowie gets a lot of characterization. How? Well, he is the leader of the force, he chooses who goes to battle and who stays at headquarters, and how the force fights. Is he an insecure leader who needs his childhood friends fighting alongside him even though they aren't good fighters? Or is he a cold-hearted man who ditches his friends for mercenaries who don't care about the cause? Is he a bloodthirsty fighter who wants to get the killing blow on enemy generals? Is he a coward who stays in the back and doesn't have the balls to get close to strong enemies? Does he frequently get outsmarted in battle? You may think that I'm over-analysing but I think this is what role-playing is about.
However, I agree with you on the ending, the ending SUCKS.
BOW-E is the name, not BOO-E. David Bowie? come on man.
Also if you want to play a good version of SF 1 play the GBA remake.
I agree that the characters are unbalanced GREATLY, and some of the amount that allies can improve make no sense rationally. Old, already experienced fighters and casters should not be improving the same amount or better than ones who have yet to live up to their potential or have otherwise made a decision not to continue with their development. The game designers also missed an opportunity to balance different characters within the same class. If you're going to have a variety of characters, might as well vary their potential - one can have potential for highest HP, other for highest DEF, other for highest ATK or some able to have a bigger gain depending on which weapon or staff they have.
You're also right in that the experience system as implemented in this turn based system does leave room for improvement as it does force faster (higher agility and movement) characters to nerf themselves in order to allow others to catch up. I get there are slower characters in real life, but there's got to be some mechanic that allows for the bruisers to gain experience. I say take agility out of the equation - at least for allies. Movement and land terrain is already a handicap. They can also give less of a boost to final blows and allow for any confrontation (hit or miss) to gain experience. Hell, one can argue someone who misses actually learns more. Maybe an exp boost for everyone on the team after a win.
I do think you're overstating about how much grinding is required to complete the game. It's very minimal and other RPGs I've played require MUCH more. I personally actually replay lost battles instead of grinding for a guaranteed win, but others may prefer to build their characters. Nonetheless, it seems to be a good balance of not being too easy while allowing people to play the game how they want.
Astral is definitely a well structured character. He's able to drive the storyline while still having the lightness Shining Force is loved for.
I also love the occasional steampunk feel to the series, as it adds so much depth and sets it apart from other RPG franchises. I especially like that they're rudimentary in their construction as to make sure they're not OP, but enough to show that the people of the time were interested in advancing their technology.
Man, I love this game
What problems did you have with the first
5:32 Some say Bowie’s related to Ian, but this line says that he’s related to Luke Skywalker.
Nice haha, we got introduced to the fist Shining Force game in the same way, thru Smash Pack 2 on PC :D
I dont understand why you would need to grind in this game unless you ditched every op character like Peter, all mages and didn't use master monks.
Which given his gameplay videos he doesn't use master monks or any alternate promotion for that matter. No wonder he sucks at this game. Probably doesn't even know about mithril.
Long time fan of this game. I think the criticisms you made were very fair.
Most people do grind to get their SF II characters to lvl 40 before promoting them, while the less patient will try for lvl 30.
If they ever remake both SF I & II (and that's a HUGE if) perhaps they should institute a "beginner's mode" for faster leveling & gold acquisition like they did with the Japan-only PS2 version of Phantasy Star II.
That's my take on the issue. 🤓
I don’t mind the grind... all his following complaints.... about the grind and refusing to do the simple member status check to see order of moving party and protecting your party.
Grinding for an amor piece means you NEED something to keep you going and don’t actually enjoy the game play or FULL strategy needed.
Story in the middle is the best part while also acquiring some of the best units. But someone only interested in the destination and not the journey won’t be up that.
And Shining force Is the best one regardless of critic since the simplistic nature of the game is why it holds up. Hearing a 20 year old complain about graphics is just torture for those who grew up on this stuff. Enjoy your Amor pieces I will take my shinning force any day all day.
this kind of games i througly recommend playing on an emulator where you can speed up the emulation. Even as a child with tons of spare time i thought that (and loved the game). The one on steam has a speed up key but it's kind of uncontrollable and adds an annoying screen effect so i can¡t recommend that one.
I dont understand what about this game is a grind, unless you just aren't that great at managing to split xp effectively throughout your team which really isn't that hard.
Also you mentioned healers like they were fragile or something when they are so op. They hit just as hard as everyone else in the beginning so they get xp every turn and level crazy fast. Then you turn them into monks and they two shot everything.
It's BOW-E not BOO-E. Like David Bowie.
I knew it! It was David BOWIE all along!
You should really try shining force 3 all 3 the scenarios. It will blow you away.
How? Emu?
Yeah man, this whole boo-ey thing really just rubs me the wrong way.....
How do you get “Boooooooey” out of BOW-ie?
you pronounce Bowie (as in the knife) as Boo-Ee
Booey huh....
What the.... lol, I also played this game as a kid on a pc port. Was my very first rpg next to final fantasy 7. And I also didn't liked the ending cause I was shipping the main character with Sarah. XD Like serious, did he even talk to the princess even once besides the moment she got kidnapped? XD And while I certainly can absolutly agree with your complains about the difficulty (this freakin kraken) and the grinding, I still love this game and even play it from time to time if I'm in the mood. ^^
It's actually kinda odd, cause usual I'm not so much into fantasy medival jrpgs and prefer the ones that have a more modern or futuristic setting (like the persona series and final fantasy 7), but this I can't resist but love. gues it's the wonderfull and colorfull artstyle. ^^
Sarah gets together with Kazin. They show up in Shining and the Holy Ark I believe, but their names were mistranslated in the english version and they aren't playable
Wait a minute. Super is the hardest difficulty?
Strange, but true. The enemies are smarter & have a higher critical hit rate.
Love this review series, thank you!
Um just one annoying thing, it's Bowie as in Bow wee not Boo wee ok
Frustrated that you cannot predict when or where enemies move and have to refight battles, because of difficult victory requirements as well as being certain to lose at least 1 or 2 of your party members? Never play the Vandal Hearts series on PS1. Great strategy RPGs but damn difficult... and bloody.
Difficulty spikes? Not knowing what to do next? SaGa Frontier II comes to my mind. Dunno if I still would have that much difficulty with it 20 years later, but then this game frustrated me greatly.
Want a boring Strategy/Tactical RPG? In my opinion "Eternal Eyes" and "Master of Monsters" for PS1 can fill the spot quite nicely. Maybe my personal opinion from, again, 20 years ago, but I hardly doubt they have gotten any better with time.
.... and since when is Diablo a strategy RPG? The version I remember playing was: Choose character archetype and bash in monster hordes. Get loot, level up and... why the F* can't I story my stuff in a chest instead of having to drop it in town square.
Hi. I suscribe your channel. Like
Great review.
Hey my dude, your videos are always fantastic. Doing my best to promote your channel to friends of mine that might be interested. Keep up the amazing work!
Bowie X Sarah... AMIRITE?
Kazin X Sarah
Bowie X Cid Ripoff AMIRITE? lol
I think that's where the biggest debate is. I wish the game gave a choice on whether to wake the princess or not. If you don't, the princess wakes up on her own. If you do, Kazin goes off to comfort Sarah. Either way, everyone should be happy.
Great series keep it up. Sub'd!
Dawg it came out in 1992 💀 shi ain't gonna be perfect to our standards