That was rough! Thanks for watching! If you'd like to see my complete thoughts, episode by episode, check out my video over on @_mimc th-cam.com/video/5vfPV7145aA/w-d-xo.html Also, you can see my hour long video notes for Baby Reindeer ONLY on Patreon: www.patreon.com/posts/baby-reindeer-104256780
Im sorry but did people really think a show based on one person’s account was going to be entirely accurate? Of course it’s going to be biased and dramatized. it’s a tv show. He has to make it entertaining and enthralling. Im not saying all of it was wrong, but it’s not a surprise certain things were exaggerated.
I hate how the person coming forward constantly shits on people with cluster B personalities disorders, without even naming the trait(s) that Gadd has that remind her of it. You can just name traits or actions that are abusive without stigmatizing an entire group of people. It’s absolutely out of pocket for her therapist to bring up BPD for someone they’ve never met, and ridiculous for her to bring it up publicly. This kind of pathologizing hurts everyone, it only breeds shame.
Thank you for saying it! Hearing all the ableism towards cluster B folks in the thread was unironically triggering, especially considering not everyone with a cluster B personality disorder acts that way
I would say that not everyone with cluster B personality traits are bad but some are. I think the problem here is that people can’t hold that people with disabilities and mental illness and penalty make the majority of criminals and abusive people without being able to hold that most disabled and mentally ill or personality disorder are not mostly criminals. So it’s probably not even 25% of every group sre criminal but because they make up the majority of criminals it tends to get stereotyped and we haven’t reached a point where we can talk about these things honestly and without discriminating against groups
So ableist and insensitive. People with BPD are constantly villainized and made into a monolith by these arm chair psychologists. I’m really disappointed that she didn’t just label the behaviors. She didn’t need to pathologize and shit on a group of people who are already very vulnerable and sensitive
thank you!!! like it takes upto a year of regular sessions before most people can be diagnosed with BPD. it’s so unprofessional that the therapist was ready to diagnose someone they’ve never met and that their client has only known for maybe a few weeks.
"He's the common denominator" is such a weird victim blamey observation to make especially when the show itself blatently explores themes of how abuse victims are more likely to be revictimised. That and the generalisations about cluster B with no specifics and him not actually having been diagnosed with any cluster B disorder really sets off warning bells for me
yeah felt that too with the "common denominator" comment. there was a thick air of victim blaming present. We don't judge people who have a pattern of being predated upon by abusers who can sense their vulnerabilities, and take advantage of those. Also Saneism and Ableism are not motivating evidence for me, using a disorder as a reason why someone is a potentially bad person is a red flag for several types of discrimination. I don't think this draws away from being able to clock trans fetishization, but it certainly doesn't have any conflation in my opinion. Anyone can be transphobic in a fetishizing, othering, degrading way etc.
@@PenelopeAstony I wanna say before i say this that im mostly with you, but "We don't judge people who have a pattern of being predated upon by abusers who can sense their vulnerabilities, and take advantage of those. " doesn't quite cut it. I judge everyone. She shouldn't be diagnosing him online, he shouldn't be asking her out while trying to get her hired, he may be fetishizing her, and all that is seperate from his trauma and abuse, just because someone had horrific experiences doesn't mean they get a free pass for whatever future behaviors. Again, though, i'm on your side, as far as her behavior, i just don't agree with that bit of rhetoric. The issue is the ableism/diagnosing on her end, and the bad work/relationship practices and possible current (and definite former) transphobia on his end, though i do think she was somewhat rash in judging him based on a story he wrote about mistakes he made years ago, and i find it somewhat suspect that she doesn't explain what his supposed overreaction was. Shes giving a lot of information and then she uses a very long sentences to not describe anything he says beyond it being "emotionally dysregulated" which could mean anything. Its irresponsible in that shes drawing atttention to something that she then forces you to leave to your imagination, with the context being "it was very bad". She also says she wanted to break it off with him but is then upset when he wants to break it off? I do, though, identify with and support the message she ends on, regardless. Be wary of peoples behavior when they hold power, report it, etc, be even a bit over-vigilant if you need. He shouldn't have approached her in the multiple ways he did, one or the other.
To be very clear: I obviously do not like how she diagnosed him and I actually really don’t think it was necessary to do so. However I am less eager to immediately criticize someone’s own unpleasant description of their relationship within the same moment im reading about It. But as someone who has dated someone with BPD, even if he had it, it would be shitty to say that he was a bad person for having it. I don’t think that she needed to pathologize him at all
Tbh it didn’t come off like you endorsed it ,fwiw, don’t worry. Her comments miffed me a bit so I was a bit heavy on that in my comment, but I’ll also take the opportunity to addendum again that regardless of how she parses it, it was her (bad) experience that she deserves to talk about - AND… I was so quick to be annoyed by that I didn’t comment on my other thoughts on the video, so I want to apologize if I lit a fire under that. It wasn’t actually that important in the grand scheme of her venting about her experience & you’re totally on point abt that !! My other thoughts are that this angle of the show production were totally lost on me, and it’s a great thing that you highlighted it esp from your perspective. Have a great weekend 🦆
I love ya Kat, but nowhere in the video was the abl*ism and victim blaming that Reece was perpetuating mentioned at all, which I feel would be a very good thing to do considering the intense stigma that people with BPD face in this world. Letting that abl*ism go unchecked leads to more and more abl*ism when the majority of people have no baseline understanding of what BPD even is. It is already h*ll to live with this disorder and as many others have stated below, most people with BPD are more likely to be the victims of ab*se rather than the perpetuators, more of a danger to ourselves than others, and almost all of us have intense trauma. We need people like you to advocate for us when necessary because the sc rate for people with BPD is astronomical and the stigma only makes it so much worse.
@@KatBlaque would you be willing to criticize that all unpleasant interactions maybe don’t need to be posted on the internet. I would love to get your opinion on the current exposing culture and when it is exposing abusers vs when authorities choose to look the other way or when it is just messy . By the way it doesn’t even seem like they were in a relationship and even if they were nothing said seem worthy of putting on blast .
@@violetk8025I think the fact there was a direct power imbalance between them but he continued to pursue her is a valid thing to discuss openly. If it weren’t for that, I would agree with you, especially when the story is about a person who already doesn’t pretend to be an angel.
She doesn't get a pass for ableism and saneism because she had a bad relationship, though. It's important to call these things out when we see them. Otherwise it looks like you're supporting it by sharing those ideas uncritically. You can support someone who had a bad experience while acknowledging that they're spreading harmful misinformation.
two things that kind of bother me about reece's twitter thing are the 'he's the common denominator' comment (of course a person's going to be the 'common denominator' in stories about their own experiences. i'm not even sure what she was trying to say with that, but it feels a little victim blamey) and her weird thing with 'cluster b personalities' that feels like the internet's obsession with diagnosing anybody they've ever had a bad experience with as having some kind of cluster b personality disorder and further stigmatising people with those disorders (there are whole articles about how to 'spot the cluster b people in your life and cut them out' and the whole thing kind of sucks ngl) like idk bro she could've talked about how she had a kind of weird experience with him without doing all that
yeah, and now that he's more famous because of his show, it could lead to more people knowing about the diagnosis but linking it to his actions when he isn't diagnosed with it. public spheres and creating false understanding of mental health disorders is like so common. its why OCD used in colloquial conversations, means nothing. and most people using it in that sense have no idea what it is. like he did weird stuff, no argument there. but you can say "hey there's probably an explanation for it, not to excuse it, but not gonna label it as anything other than it seems like he fetishizes trans people." like don't bring a disorder into things if he isn't actually diagnosed with it.
If anyone ever responded to me talking about my abuse with "Huh I can't help but notice that you're the common denominator in all those situations" I might slap them actually thinking abt it some more
Glad someone brought up both of these points. Like first off, yeah, he's the common denominator in all his bad experiences. He's the common denominator in all his good experiences too. That's the nature of experience. That was such a weird observation. It feels like...a gotcha that isn't a gotcha. Along with that, Kat talks about people seeing you through a lens, through this idea of you that isn't really you, and it sounds like Reese did exactly that with Gadd. Like as soon as her therapist brought up BPD as a possibility (which was very unprofessional and inappropriate). Everything he did she saw as evidence of a "cluster-b personality disorder" (The fact she kept flattening very different disorders into that one category as she talks is another red-flag to me). There's so much stigma and so much armchair psych around personality disorders, it was really off-putting (and maybe a tiny bit triggering) to hear her lump every negative thing he did into a diagnosis there's no evidence he even has. Obviously none of this is to say Gadd didn't behave inappropriately or treat her badly.
Exactly and talking about “idealizing, discarding, etc.” like that’s a criteria for BPD! No that’s just an abuser thing lol. I hate the jargon because it doesn’t add anything to what she has to say. It could’ve been posted without.
Yeah, I didn't like this whole vilification of cluster B and "being a victim of cluster B personality disorder". There are challenges, of course, when it comes to personality disorders, that's why they are disorders, but she's making people with cluster B sound terrible and like they're all the same and abusive. Icky!
Gadd's behavior was inappropriate and unprofessional, but this girl is being massively irresponsible and ableist by trying to armchair diagnose him. I don't care how many reddit threads she's read, it's not her place to spread rumors about his mental health or demonize people with personality disorders. It was also incredibly shitty to compare his behavior to that of his abuser. Yes, there was an age and power difference, but that's nowhere near the same level as drugging and assaulting someone. Then again, she seems to think the difference between abuse and a bad relationship is just "labels." Frankly the whole post screams "bitter ex who thinks reading reddit makes them a psychologist." Do I think Gadd is a chaser and probably a shitty boyfriend? Yes. Do I think it was appropriate to bring those things up? Yes. But the way she did it was disgusting, and Kat really should have called it out.
@@Enormous866 If you're just gonna leave a vague judgment to leave people confused, please take that lazy and troll-like behaviour to Truth Social where it's expected... or just like explain yourself..? I think I speak for a lot of people when I state we shouldn't have to ask you for a common-sense or understandable reply from someone being negative and possibly rude. 🤷♂
What she describes is in fact abuse. He did abuse a position of power. When she says that she felt like she couldn't say no without loosing the opportunity, everything becomes clear. Gadd isn't just a chaser or a shitty boyfriend, he's someone who used his position (perhaps inadvertently) to have a romantic relationship (maybe even sex) with someone. The fact is, what she describes is feeling coerced, and coercition relies less on the culprit's intentions than on how the victim feels. Though you're right that the way she went about it (the ableism/sanism and the victim-blaming) is completely wrong. However since she's hellbent on not recognizing the true nature of what happened (abuse), because as she states she sees it as less important than other types of abuse (as the larger public do and as it may be) I personally think that is the only way she found to speak and make sense of it.
I don't like how she spoke abt mental illness and seemed to project more harmful intentions onto him than he had. BUT, I do think the power dynamic was creepy and I don't blame her for getting chaser vibes from him and wanting to steer clear.
Them having a power dynamic issue would imply he had power over her. Virtually no one in the acting world knew of him before the show aired and he made it clear to her it was up to the casting directors and producers, he had no say. And even tho they green-lit the show they could've as easily cut the process in pre production. And if she did agree to date him because that would potentially increase her chances that's another thing. Don't get me wrong he is wrong for asking out someone who he initially contacted for work but throwing around words like ''abuse'' in this situation is weird considering the person who made the post didn't even felt abused.. Actors, directors and writers date each other all the time. If he offered her the role in exchange for sleeping with him that would've been different
@@elaine-fi8cjThis is so wrong. You don't need to be well known to have power over someone. Holding a job over someone's head/being able to to get you that job based on how you act with them IS having power over her. This is HE'S special, I highly, highly, highly, doubt he had little to no say in casting as he's the one needed to make sure it's accurate. If he told her that, we are taking him at face value.
@@elaine-fi8cjThe issue is that the offer to audition for a Netflix show (a huge opportunity) and him stating that he was attracted to her were coupled together. It’s like if you get a job interview and the interviewer mentions they’d like to date you, it’s unprofessional and there’s no way to know if you rejecting them will affect the outcome of the job placement. Power doesn’t always equal notoriety or fame. I do think there was a power imbalance.
@@elaine-fi8cj I agree to this. There are some underlines on what she's saying that gives me the vibes she only went on with him because she was a clout chaser as well, and would have never gotten into him if he had no Netflix upcoming show. I'm not saying he wasn't a a creep, he was. It was inappropriate of him to chase someone who could be in a professional environment with him, especially after she said no and given the power dynamics. But on another hand, she didn't make him back out when he insisted on it. She even leaned into it for a bit in order to potentially increase her chances of being cast or dating someone with a Netflix show. Let's be honest, those were her intentions. It wasn't dating simply because she was interested on the guy, but because of what that guy represented to her and her clout chasing sensibilities. There was no right in this one, both were wrong and if she was truly that invested in her own dignity she could have simply make him back out, speak to the show production or give up on the show overall. Also, why was there no post or stories from these people before the show exploded, or even in its first weeks? Clout chasers will be clout chasers no matter what.
I’m not a fan of the stalker ‘my’ policing tbh as someone with a stalker. It feels like victim blaming. Do we have data that this would deter them at all? I blocked my stalker on social media so he had no idea how I would refer to him. I don’t think we should be pretending that victims have control over how stalkers behave - they don’t.
absolutely. My ex stalked me for 8 months until I was able to get a restraining order. Despite never engaging and continously blocking he would just make new phone numbers and emails. I was absolutely fine calling him my stalker because he was, and trying to detach from that seems to diminish the reality that I was being targeted on purpose. It just puts more pressure on victims to detach and be in control when that's nearly impossible under that much stress and abuse.
I hate to admit this, but I did my fair share at one time (I was a cringe worthy 20 year old). And ya, hearing them claim me as "my ____" felt good. I think in casual convos w/ friends and such, it's perfectly fine. But in anything they might read or see online; it's probably better not to use claiming words like mine, my, ours, etc. I get what lilmorsecody is saying; it's absolutely not meant to put more work on you. It's only a consideration people should be aware of. Stalkers do look for any little hint or sign that they have some form of intimacy with you. Even when it's obviously not positive or consensual.
I don't think it necessarily has to do with their behaviour which you don't have control over like you said. But it can help the victim to cope and distance themselves emotionally. If it doesn't help you of course nobody should ever police somebody else over it (same goes for survivor/victim), you're definitely right about that!
i hate to say this, but yes it actually does impact a lot. stalkers actually ENJOY being referred to as "my" because it creates a relationship . saying "theyre my stalker" creates a bond, even though to us its negative, to them its still a relationship. it reinforces their belief that they mean something to you. it shows the, that you actively talk about them in a "possessive" way, which obviously isnt REALLY what it is but in their mind, its possessive. i seriously recognise doing dome reading on how stalkers' minds interpret certain things we dont even consider.
I don't think it comes from a place of victim blaming. the people that told her not to say that just want to make sure she doesn't accidentally play into the stalker's messed up desires. I think it's better to be safe.
I really wish she could just talk about his chaser behavior and the pressure she felt from auditioning for a romantically interested director instead of constantly trying to diagnose and demonize perceived BPD. As someone diagnosed with PTSD, I was always convinced that my issues stemmed from BPD and that community gave me hope to get better and seek treatment and gave me the grace to be kinder to myself. It's really nasty that she wants to sit here and diagnose him as having a personality disorder just because he made her uncomfortable a few times and imply that having a personality disorder makes you some form of abuser or tone deaf and disrespectful. Abusers can have personality disorders but there was absolutely no reason for her ablism.
I understand how the pressure from being in the ranks of a potential casting for a show could affect your ability to consent. However, I don’t see how this was not something they pursue after their professional relationship had subsided, or at least the auditioning process had closed. I’m not blaming her, what he was doing was obviously out of line and hella creepy for a professional, but I feel that her boundaries were put in place too late in the dynamic and she didn’t make it clear from the jump what she wanted out of it. He obviously didn’t have a problem with it, as she is the one reeling with the after effects of the situation and posting about it online. In that way, if we teach and encourage people how to respect, keep and uphold their own boundaries, it could be a much safer way to navigate unpredictable circumstances such as this one.
Like I feel for her, I really do. But dating or coming across people such as this is normal and to be expected, especially inside of the arts & entertainment industry. The bpd thing is irrelevant to me because I don’t think it’s the disorder she’s mad at. She’s mad at him, his actions + lack of accountability, and is finding ways to cope with what seemed to be an emotionally upsetting and unnerving situation. It was also probably invalidating for her too. As a wise person once said, “there are a million ways something can go wrong.” And I think that rings true here as well - she found herself with someone who was, and probably still is, wholly unfit to date.
i had a visceral gut reaction at reece's blatant stigmatization of cluster b personality disorders but seeing so many call it out in this comments section brought me a lot of comfort and hope for humanity. thank you everyone and thank you kat for fostering such a cool and supportive community
yes, thank you to everyone here for recognizing the harm that assumptions like that cause! esp as someone with mental illness and a close friend with BPD, I hate when people armchair diagnose others and try to associate toxic behavior with the disorder, as if that's a guaranteed thing that people with personality disorders will do. it's such a shitty generalization that only ends up making people more scared of those with personality disorders.
Reece's pathologizing of Gadd is kinda gross. You can call someone a creep or flake or abuser or point out that they're re-igniting a cycle of trauma all without labelling them with any disorder. Some of the language is probably helpful (" In the thread, she managed to both demonize individuals with cluster B disorders *and* say "Well, he didn't realize what he was doing was wrong" which, in my opinion, helps nobody. I don't think it's helpful to her healing process, and it's definitely not helpful to those dealing with these disorders. Also gross - people policing how you refer to your stalker. It's your experience. The stalker is most likely going to act the same regardless of how you refer to them, the least people can do is give you agency in how you refer to your experiences
Tbf she does have some self awareness about the pathologising him (her words), I think she was just trying to share how she processed it. (Even if it’s obvious who she was talking about, she never named him, hasn’t followed up, etc). And I don’t think she would call him those things because she wasn’t processing it from a moral perspective but from a personal, psychological one. Like, idk, I’ve heard people describe their criminally neglectful mother as “crazy, frigid bitch,” the man that groped them as “that (f-slur),” fall back on sexist myths of all men as sex-crazed because of their experience with assault, etc. At the end of the day, people can only use the language they’re given, and it’s best to focus on the message and criticise the larger discourse which gave them that language, rather than the people, no? But I see your point ofc
I mean that's true..But there is a really large factor of people using pop psychology/therepy speak as a weapon against people. To the point that it has become a common manipulation tactic that abusers employ. So yeah agreed it's very much worth examining that larger discourse than a individual said language. Though I'm kinda mixed on the letting the language sexism, bigotry to describe experiences go entirely. I mean it's not likely revelant to this situation. And yeah prople love to point out a trauma survivor did a bad thing, then dogpile them. No because survivors of trauma who fixate and contextualize their trauma with their own bigotry are often targets to be radicalized. Like operational sexism leading to become a gender critical or pathologizing men categorically accidentally (sometimes intentionally but that's a whole nother can of worms) perpetuates patriarchy by naturalizing patriarchal violence. And the whole thing snowballs. But that's a larger question for a person's support systems and institutions that work with victims of coercion/violence ie. Not places like twitter.
@@yoyopron This. It's not "problematic" in terms of internet problematic, if that makes sense. It's problematic in the sense of it gives the stalker validation on the connection between stalker and victim.
Oh God that "common denominator" shit really sets me off. It's almost as if people who experience abuse make easier targets for the next abuser. Who would have thought?
i'm a trans stalking victim with bpd who has been abused by people with other personality disorders. no matter what happened to her, the way she immediately pathologized him is wrong. bpd is one of the most outwardly stigmatized disorders; i find it very hard to find resources to help myself because of the oversaturation of resources that tell other people how to 'deal with' me. it's heartbreaking to see someone abused in the way i was, then turn around and blame the exact thing that my abuse resulted in: a personality disorder.
surprisingly this is one of the first times i've seen bpd demonized so hard. i'm mostly used to the demonization of npd, everyone and their brother calls a vain person or cheating ex a "narcissist"
Idk i think people are hyperfocusing on this one singular thing, the "conviction", when everything else he talked about has been backed up by evidence. My theory is, i can see how people might not understand the nuances of what happened to "Martha's" previous victim. She did get told legally to stay away from her, but it's not a well known or understood legal principle. He made it easier to understand by the masses. Hes also, and i say this so much, not a perfect victim and he doesnt have to be. He can make bad choices and still be a victim.
richard gadd does not portray himself in the best light in the show! i think it's incredibly meaningful that he can acknowledge his own flaws because his character is a great portrayal of an imperfect victim
Yeah him being perhaps a chaser, boundary pusher, sex pest, ass hat and all the baggage with that, psychoathologizing him is unnecessary. Like that's shitty enough. But also bpd has unique systemic issues plus post trauma is messy and conflated with it. Like just let him be an asshole, the vague therepy talk is reaaaaally not helpful. Let his therapist do that with him.
I don’t… love. How this girl came forward like “yes it appears he has a cluster B disorder … which is an affront all on its own” but I obviously empathize with her experience, regardless of how she syntaxes it
Yeah ngl as someone with BPD it hurt. Like "attempting to have a romantic relationship" ??? Like I'm sorry I have abandonment issues and repeated trauma so I'm hard to love I guess smh
@@maxyeeewe are not hard to love, i have bpd and just celebrated my 5 year aniversary. Therapy and accountability are important but its more important to date someone that cares loves and acepts you enough to work together to create a good relationship because talking is all that matters
@@maxyeee yeah same here. FWIW while it bothered me, I will give her some grace in that I think she’s young (?) and I know, when I was younger, some of that psychoanalyzing speak stuff resonated w me as a way to pad out my histories with people (like my mom) even tho I also, have Disorders lol.
@@maxyeee BPD is extremely manageable as a cluster B with the right help, meditation and therapy. I'm sure you already and loads know this, but I wanted to state it anyway so the people who have BPD and got put in a bad place because of the unchecked (not by Kat) ableism know there's always hope and a possibility for improvement 💖
''yet i couldn't help but notice how in all of this situations he was the common denominator'' Oh the classic victim blaming technique, followed by amateur diagnosing and no so subtle ableism. If she acted like this in their conversations as well trying to victim blame and diagnose him, then maybe that's why he found her confrontational. And Kat is agreeing and nodding is so surprising to me. Dont get me wrong he shouldn't have tried to date someone auditioning on his project, im not excusing his behavior but Kat nodding at the ableism and victim blaming is weird, real weird
I’m so confused by how many people in his life are coming forward to “expose” him and clout chase while also coming off as the bad ones. He only comes off as more of a victim which is not their goal 🤷♀️
Oh joy another psychoanalyst "diagnosing" someone's shitty behavior as BPD, so fun, I love being generalized by people that have no actual understanding of personality disorders 🙄
Your comments about men who interact with you and other trans women as a fetish and dating their projection were spot on. I had that experience earlier this year. It was wild as hell. No matter what I said, this man could not be convinced that I was who I said I was personality-wise. I wasn’t a full person in his eyes and was only ever "sweet" and adorable to him. He saw a tall curvy Black woman and projected his fantasies and past partners (all similar in height and build to me) onto me. It was incredibly frustrating; it was like dating a brick wall!!
Yes! It’s something I never really put much thought in but it’s so relatable. I checked all his boxes Latina, short, trans and if I ever acted in a way outside his fantasy or didn’t share the same interests as him, he would make me feel guilty and that I’m in the wrong and I should like what he likes. While he never gave any effort into the things I liked
Me too even as a trans guy it always felt like my ex wanted me to be something I never was to begin with despite telling me that he loved everything about me to the point where felt like if I didn't change myself for him then he wouldn't want be with me anymore but I didn't want to realize it for a long time because I was already in love with him
She definitely has a right to call out what I would call predatory behavior with that power dynamic, but she shouldn’t be pathologizing him like that. She doesn’t need to to identify the bad experience for what it is. People need to keep in mind that living with a disability (including mental illnesses) makes you more likely to be a victim of abuse rather than a perpetrator. His abusive behavior isn’t caused by a mental illness.
So ive had a woman who raped assaulted and stalked me over the past year in the half. She has shown up to my Job, across Statelines, and to my home multiple times. i've had to move multiple times, and recently changed my number for the 6th time. I think the most damaging part of my experience is not even the act of rape anymore. At least not anymore. Its the way she weaponized the double standard surrounding rape and harrasment done by women to further traumatize me. "I must have sent out some sort of sign. I must have wanted it. I must have done something to justify her behavior, I must have LIKED it, because men cant be raped" etc. Watching the interviews and hearing the comments of this man's stalker on her rape of him really struck a chord with me for that reason. I really emphathizes with Gadd. I never expected him to be perfect. And yet, for Gadd to spin around and engage in such sadly common problematic behavior, without an ounce of self reflection about his behavior almost makes me so sad and disappointed and scared. Will my own future relationships now be colored by my own inability to overcome my trauma? idk. Just my thoughts. Thanks again for the great video Kat
Your future relationships will be what you build with that person. Trauma molds who you are but it does not define you. It might be more work to set boundaries and communicate, but it will not ruin anything. A person that will truly love you will understand and give you grace while building a relationship with you. I wish you all the best on your healing and your future. I am so sorry you have been hurt so much.
"If you are scared enough to fear repeating abuse cycles. Then you are already self aware enough to prevent it." Is what I have been told having similar fears. I am sorry you had to suffer so much. I hope life treats you better.
Healing from trauma is not a linear process and you’ll have mountains and valleys to climb. All you can do is approach it with humility and vulnerability, and a realization that you’re not perfect. Gadd has his demons, as do many of us.
I'm not entirely sure what Reece's point is. I'm hearing: "He didn't abuse me but I'm going to imply in this lengthy post that he is a dangerous man who needs to be avoided". Very confusing. Before Baby Reindeer, virtually no one in the acting world knew who he was and I'm not sure that he was in a position to abuse power. Actors are allowed to date directors/producers/writers and that's common in the industry. Perhaps I missed the part where Gadd offered Reece a part in the show if he could have sex with her. Or maybe I'm just being completely ignorant about the whole ordeal
My thoughts exactly. Whoever this person is, they're being messy for no clear reason. And if they're not just being messy and he is dangerous, then she needed to be clearer and more specific in her accusations or just pipe down and sit back in her seat because this whole vague "I'm not accusing him but I'm definitely accusing him" mess is ridiculous and unhelpful.
Also, she agreed to go on a date with him and continued with the audition, she wanted to end things, he wanted to try and make it work, he didn’t hire her, and he said that their relationship wouldn’t work out and they parted ways. It just kinda sounds like a messy situationship in a strange circumstance, I don’t doubt that he might be a chaser but other than that he didn’t really do anything unethical to exploit the power imbalance, especially since he didn’t end up casting her and also decided to end the relationship
That definitely puts the validity of her claims into question if she not only can't come up with any specific behavior that was off-putting, but also uses the opportunity to spout saneist rhetoric... that's not something a victim does. That's abuser behavior.
@@agnessofiacastrocarvalho774 I agree but all relationships are imbalanced to some degree. I don't like making assumptions but it does sound a bit like Reece is upset because she dated Gadd thinking it would guarantee her a part in his show but it didn't and now she is livid because his show became a massive hit. She even wrote that she agreed to a date with him because she still needed to audition and didn't want to hurt her chances. I am a massive advocate of taking down people who abuse their power yet I'm still struggling to understand what Reece's damages were in this situation, besides being fetishized of course
I have BPD, and I work in the mental health field with people who have other cluster b personality disorders. I’m very VERY tired of people acting like having a PD is the same as being abusive, toxic, etc.
“Gadd is probably a chaser, I got iffy vibes from him and the power dynamic, and he didn’t take no for an answer.. so he probably has borderline personality disorder.” I feel like I’m missing something. I’ll take her word for everything that happened, but I still think it’s very inappropriate to make armchair diagnoses about someone like that. Not only does it take multiple in-person sessions to potentially diagnose someone with a personality disorder, it further stigmatises people with those disorders as if only people with (personality) disorders do awful things to other people. To me, this just reads like someone who’s very upset about a situation they had with someone and wants to claim certain clinical language to validate their own pain.
the problem being that how do you know if his claim is even true? narcissists do like to make others look ''insane''. Makes you wonder if ''martha'' is really the problem after all......
The ableism from the accuser was absolutely insane but unsurprising. Ever since narcissist became a term to mean abuser or toxic person rather than an entire personality disorder, how could I possibly be surprised when people who don't understand mental illnesses or disorders associate those who struggle with mental health with abuse? You can be perfectly mentally sound, healthy and have no disorder at all and those same exact people are the ones who can be abusers. Oftentimes, this is exactly the case. That one toxic person exhibiting certain traits towards you wasn't special, they just chose to act that way because they lack empathy specifically towards you, not just in general.
I think it partially stems from the fact that the word narcissist has been used in the English language to mean someone who's self obsessed long before Freud and psychology as a field existed the way we know then today. Because narcissistic personality disorder was named after an adjective people were already using as a bit of an umbrella term for selfishness and vanity, there's a lot of confusion. Long story short I think it's the people who named it NPD that messed up
I disagree. Narcissist has always been used like that. It's always been common for horrible people to self-diagnose the person they don't like, using whatever words they already knew. I first saw it with autism, but BPD, NPD, bipolar, schizophrenia, schizo-affective, and schizoid have all had their day of being misunderstood by people trying to justify their hatred of someone. That's been a thing I've seen since the internet was new, so I imagine it's been around almost as long as psychiatry has. It being called out and recognized as abusive behavior though, that's new and I'm glad to see it.
@@kjarakravik4837 I don't think so. While the origin of the term was to indicate someone that was in love with themselves (from a greek myth), words evolve and change their meaning with the language. In addition, the reason the word is now used to indicate "toxic" comes from the trend of people using armchair psychology. For example, autism being used as an offensive term for saying "stupid" doesn't come from the word itself but from people being ableist, and it's a reoccurring phenomenon with every mental illness, disability or disorder that those people can get their hands on.
"Suddenly I was meet with an intense emotionally disregulated reaction" idk why but this phrase feels off to me. Like as if his reaction to be called a fetishizer is unwarranted any kind of emotional response? I don't know mixing with a casual victim blamy line "He was the common denominator " her points just feels very iffy to me in general. Maybe im over analyzing idk.
It's something that I think I had a combined... like, I wouldn't be surprised that he would react that way, whether he was being falsely accused of fetishizing her or if it was an accurate accusation. In neither case do people tend to react well to that just being brought out into the open air. But that phrasing? Combined with the armchair diagnosis stuff? Felt like she was setting the stage for tying that in with ableist language later on. It was not a pleasant feeling to tie to it. Like a lot of other people have said here in the comments: You can call out behavior without tying it to an armchair diagnosis. tbh it felt more like it weighed down the rest of what she had to say, because with the element of the armchair diagnosis it made me wonder how much of her testimony was getting warped through that perspective she was assigning to the whole thing, of him "having" a personality disorder, and her "needing" to use terms that would fit within therapy talk as a result.
"sure i stalked him but he's also not perfect." Literally the entire final point of the show was to show how much the relationship had effected gadd's mind to the point of it consuming him in a very unhealthy manner. The show does not shy away at any point from how pathetic and gross gadd is being throughout the entire ordeal. And yet none of that makes anything she did ok.
I can’t really get behind what the person coming forward is saying because she’s only using technical terms to pathologize instead of describing how she felt & what happened. Doesn’t sit right with me. And having a shit experience with someone is already bad enough. You don’t need to embellish your story with technical terms you’re not even qualified to use. It doesn’t make anyone sound more convincing or believable, it’s annoying and lowkey manipulative because it implies that everyone has to feel the same way about what happened. That just doesn’t sit right with me.
"he was the common denominator" --yeah its a story about him. I would be the common denominator in the story of my life also. "I decided to say yes" --she sounds like the guy from baby reindeer.
Once a person blames their problems with another person because they have a "cluster B disorder" and they reference cluster B hating communities, they lose all credibility in my eyes. Tell me you don't take responsibility for your own shortcomings without telling me... Like, I feel sorry for her to an extent and shame on him for using his power, but it has nothing to do with having a "cluster B" disorder. Her whole tirade showed me that there is a deep misunderstanding of the dynamics at play here and what the real problem is.
I have BPD and i hate how people think they can diagnose people with no understanding of the disorders. You're not a professional and you don't have the ability to do that and stigmatize others with it ugh.
I always thought it was funny how it's always people who've never been to a therapist in their life that seem the most confident about using a term they just heard and haven't looked up. It's got to be towards the top of the 'confidently incorrect' pyramid. (I'm putting transvestigators at the very tippy top)
That whole cluster b thing pisses me off. You can just say there were red flags that you were about to date an immature jerk, no need to bring borderline into it.
I was diagnosed with bpd. I have no idea what this girl is on about. It's like she figured out he was a criminal or something. Also, I don't have trouble with boundaries and I don't abuse people. Why do people think people with personality disorders have the SAME personality. It's a disorder in one's own individual personality.
Victims becoming abusers is not uncommon. It can happen with every form of trauma. So it doesn't surprise me that the writer was treating the trans actress in a bad way. I do take issue with her including the pathological musings of he therapist. In my experience, a therapist will never assign a diagnostic label on a person described by a person they are treating. The fact that their therapist did, makes me concerned.
Interesting experience. I've seen 7 therapists in various states. CA, NV, MA, CT and 4 of them offered a diagnosis for my mom without prompting. So it does happen. These people were anything from a social worker to a psychologist. I thought it was very common. I'm wondering how many you've seen and in what area?
@@SerafinaP In my life I have seen 6. Though only 2 were ever in a position to be asked about a diagnosis. They both told me outright that they could not offer one without evaluating the person. They focused instead on the behaviors (like the use of suicide as manipulation to get what a person wants), the situation (like if I was dependent on the person or what my relationship was like, if I had other members of a support network), and how I felt or understand things (like how I felt about the actions of the other person and if I understood that their actions were beyond my control). The fact that your experience is different is interesting to me. What would happen if for example you left out or did not know an important factor of a condition and the offered diagnosis was incorrect? That's usually why medical doctors and lawyers avoid giving any firm advice without evaluating a person. I guess they are just human. Heck, even my grandma's hospice nurse was an anti vaccination believer. So maybe I just got lucky with my therapy 🤷. Oh also, all were in California.
Honestly I think she's deeply unwell and either didn't understand that it would make her look guiltier, or wanted the attention badly enough not to care.
People keep saying "it's impossible to do that so it must be a lie" but the show shows that she literally would send stuff like "Just had an egg come and f**k me baby reindeer sent from my iphoen" so it's really not impossible to write that many of them
@@ashlabelle yeah, if you think about it in terms of IM messages instead it definitely seems plausible. I've easily sent 55+ whatsapp messages in a day to people I'm in active conversation with 🤷
@@ashlabelleStalkers are incredibly persistent. The average stalker pursues their victims for 7 years. I often can’t believe the dedication of stalkers.
There is something.... Er... Off with this tweet thread, and i cant quite verbalize what it is. Like, yes, the Cluster B stigmatization is awful..but its also really strangely placed? Because... Lets say for the sake of argument he has a cluster B disorder. And also for tue sake of argument that all people with cluster B disorders are toxic and abusive. Then wouldn't he have been doing her a FAVOR by ending things - and also by not giving her the role as well. Idk I dont really know how to explain how this makes me feel. I wish i did. It just seems off.
I commented on another comment thread that she wanted to dig for some gold. He was creepy and inappropriate, shame on him for pursuing her in that situation, but she disregarded her own boundaries. She could have said no again when he insisted, but she wanted to date someone with a Netflix show. At no point her interest in him comes off as if she was truly interested in him, she was interested in clout chasing and possibly increasing her chances of being cast or getting another job by dating someone with a Netflix show. She was a gold digger who got mad when all she dug out was some dirty pieces of trauma, and should re-evaluate why she was angry when he ended things. Wasn't it a blessing? Not on a clout chaser's mind, she lost the chance of dating someone with a successful Netflix show and want to be seen no matter what.
I know a couple of people very well that experienced abuse at the hands of people with borderline personality disorder. But I've also talk to them about how these online communities and reddits are often ableist echo chambers where every single person with a disorder becomes a supervillain. Disappointed that a good discussion of cycles of abuse became a reason to shit on people who struggle with something that it takes years of work to even manage.
I honestly think it's wild that the person who came forward "diagnosis" him as cluster B when it seems like, by their own account, their interactions were fairly limited. You felt fetishized, you read his play, he didn't give you a job. It's over.
Having a personality disorder myself (not BPD tho) the ableism in Reece's tweets gave me an immense ick, so seeing how many people in the comments call it out was a big relief. I'm glad to see that we can talk about Gadd's creepy behaviour and being a chaser without resulting to couch diagnosing and dragging down the people dealing with cluster B :)
I do believe that Gadd is probably a chaser, and he did behave inappropriately. As others have pointed out, however, I'm a bit uncomfortable with Reece's emphasis on cluster B personality disorders. There's nothing inherently abusive or toxic about those disorders, no matter what people might think. For her therapist to armchair-diagnose a person like that is incredibly unprofessional, and Reece's posts could further intensify the already overwhelming stigma against cluster B personality disorders. It's irresponsible.
Everyone in this drama is being kinda shitty to be honest. Gadd is being gross, Reece is being ableist, and the potentially real stalker is not coming off as very honest.
The whole accusation just feels like it’s describing someone who’s socially clumsy and bad at boundaries Which sounds very accurate to Richard but I don’t get how that’s supposed to be a big accusation
Besides what everyone already said about the victim blaming and cluster B comments, I just feel like that woman coming forward has been armed by her therapist with psychological jargon and she's now using it inappropriately to justify her feelings and completely disregard his feelings, chucking them up in a "he's just crazy" mess. Not saying that he wasn't being a horrible person, I'm saying that this doesn't sound like a healthy way to talk about it or to cope with something like this. You can see it clearly when she talks about his reactions to the accusations. We get to see an exact quote of what she said ("I think you fetishize trans women"), but his entire reply was just "a disregulated emotional reaction", and we don't get to see his point of view because apparently he was too emotional to be taken seriously, which feels extremely gaslight-y to me. Honestly, it just says a lot about her therapist, which in my opinion probably did a pretty bad job. Either that, or this woman spends wayyy too much time "researching" psychology online.
yeah as someone who's actually working towards a counseling career..............her therapist is not doing enough to keep her grounded. you don't just teach someone these constructs and let them run wild with their own ideas about them. you need to help them UNDERSTAND the full meanings and consequences behind that language. if you observe assumptive tendencies in your client, it is DEEPLY irresponsible to leave their assumptions unexamined, especially when those assumptions are about concepts that YOU TAUGHT THEM YOURSELF!!!!!! somebody needs to either invest a little harder in their cont ed credits or find a new line of work!!
I think its irresponsible to give platform to claims that are that ableist and victim-blamy I usually love this commentary content but this time I felt it was careless the way it was handled
The fact that she keeps coming back to diagnosing him with a mental illness rubs me the wrong way entirely. His behaviour also doesn’t necessarily seem healthy or like he is someone you would wanna start a relationship with. But the way she is trying to diagnose him in this threat makes me think that she may have talked in a similar way when she confronted him and, tbh, I would also react dismissively when someone tries to „diagnose“ me and use my trauma against me. If the point is to call him out on chaser behaviour just stick to that.
From her account, they didn’t even sleep together? He said she should audition, they went on a couple dates, she didn’t get an audition, and she diagnosed him as having borderline personality disorder, based on something her therapist said (WTF therapist does that?), having never met him. Okay, girl. She also assumes he has a fetish based on the script, and which is pretty unfair.
This feels a bit... rough. Like There's definitely something here about how people should be aware that an experience between two people can be perceived in two different ways by both people and that one person might have been really traumatized by it and one person might not have been. It seems to me as an outsider a lack of communication on both parties' accounts?? My issue really here is that she used her therapist's words and opinions on a version of him that she told her therapist about and pushed that as a diagnosis. Not to mention the blatant ableism in the way she speaks about anyone who suffers from that specific personality disorder. The way that she tells these events are from her perspective and that's valid. My issue is that now people are repeating this thought that anyone who exhibits traits like that must have this type of personality disorder and that it is wrong to have that type of disorder. ANYONE can exhibit behavior like mistreating other people and issues communicating and such. I can't speak on the fetishization of trans women because I'm not a trans woman but I have had experiences where people treat me different and how others impressions of me are blinded by the fact that I'm a trans man. It's like you're not just. "A man" to people. You're "a trans man" and that is like another category of human to some people. It's baffling... I do wish that Kat brought up the blatant ableism, though!! It's really hard to hear someone talk about a bad experience and then equate it to "this person is CLEARLY suffering from MENTAL ILLNESS" and then plaster it all over the news in light of a recent netflix show. No shade on her for doing an interview about calling out issues she might have had with her relationship in light of the fetishization of trans women but the ableism!! Is just so blatant!!! Why did she muddle her personal account with her ableism!!
The fact the stalker is out and about, free and invited to talk publicly says a lot about the double standards that society has for male survivors and female abusers. This was very triggering as a survivor of SA myself this series helped me relief a lot of the shame I've been suffering since it happened specially because people didn't believe me, question why I allowed it, people that knew my Agressor said that maybe he is sorry, that I got confused, that I shouldn't talk about it and to top it all off having a WhatsApp conversation talking about what happened with my abuser were he admits the act occured wasn't enough evidence to even file a report against him, so he is still out there also free and about probably doing the same to others, with what I can only describe as his support system of grape enables around.
There are absolutely double standards, like messages that women can’t be sexual abusers, or that it’s not as serious somehow. (A lot of the trans bathroom rhetoric relies on the idea that cis women are never offenders.) That said, plenty of men get a free pass despite abuse allegations. Roman Polanski has well known defenders. Weinstein has rumors around him for years before anyone really did anything. Both major US presidential candidates …. You get the idea.
A few months ago I wathced a doc on netflix about stalkers. One woman had a kid with this guy who tried to run her over. When he got out of prison, she had to see him and has shared custody. It's true that there is a double standard, but in general stalkers get off easy regardless of the genders involved.
honestly with that trans actor i do believe her and i think that was horrible for her, but i dont think its fair to shift the blame 100% onto people with BPD. i understand where shes coming from, i had an ex who blamed her abusive traits on her BPD and that made me really scared of people with BPD. but it's honestly super dismissive of people with BPD who arent abusers and, to an extent, of her own situation as i feel implying it's because of a personality disorder takes away agency from the man who actually abused her and can be used as an excuse (much like my ex did). it's okay to think somebody's a shitty person, you dont have to involve a whole group of people with it
I have to admit, I'm struggling to see what's entirely wrong with what Gadd did to the actress who auditioned and didn't get the part. I'm sure part of my confusion is the limited amount of detail we get. But in my mind, it is actually possible that he genuinely wanted to date her, and also thought she'd be great for the part, but the powers that be didn't want her. *Potentially* nothing wrong with that, though it certainly isn't a great start. There's just not a lot in her description of exactly what happened that clearly points to any wrongdoing. Her recounting is written in a way that readers have to assume, based on how she frames everything, that he did do something wrong. But let's work under the assumption that there was wrongdoing on his part: I want to say this next part *extremely* carefully because, if someone isn't far enough along in their trauma healing journey, it's just not something that they're able to grapple with yet. Here's that tough to grapple with bit: she entertained him after she already broke things off, and then is upset at what happens when she re-engages with him. She disregarded her own boundary. There's an extent to which we have to take responsibility for the choices we make, even if they get us hurt. To put it more colloquially: If you put the quarter in the jukebox, you get to dance to the song. I dunno. Like I said, it's too difficult to really know what happened based on her description. But it's sad either way: either 1) he really did treat her badly and manipulated her into going on a date with him by pretending she stood a chance at the audition or 2) she's stretching the truth and then broadcasting it on Twitter for some reason.
Exactly and he ended up ending the relationship in the end and didn’t cast her so it just kind of sounds like a messy situationship. I don’t doubt that he might be a chaser, but other than that I don’t think he did much wrong, which she even acknowledges herself in that she doesn’t want to call herself a victim of him. As many people have said, there’s no reason to speculate publicly about his mental health which is just ableist and uninformed
In my opinion, it was inappropriate to ask her out at the same time that he made a professional offer. It's also possible that she thought dating him would improve her odds of getting the job, or that not dating him would ruin her chances. By making those offers together, he made it difficult to completely separate them. If someone is young and struggling to get their career off the ground, they might see dating him as their only chance to succeed. The way she describes it is weird, though. The story only makes sense if she was incredibly naive or had no self-worth--why else would she agree to a relationship with someone she immediately suspected would treat her badly? But she describes as if she was completely self-aware at the time.
@uppercut147 I agree with you. His behavior was shitty, but she disregarded her own boundaries and let's be honest, she did that out of wanting to date someone with a Netflix show. At no point in her text I felt like she was truly interested in him. She was interested in the potential chances he represented to her. He had a creepy chaser behavior for sure, but she was digging for gold and was mad when said gold went away turning into a messy pit.
I took an older male neighbor to court. He was parking near my apartment door but we didn't have assigned spots. Every day he would sit outside my door leaning against his car. I got a dog because I started feeling unsafe, which made him mad and he told the landlord I was training my dog to attack him. He found out where I worked locally and started showing up to my job early in the morning before anyone else was there. But there is nothing you can do until they cross a line or you make so many calls to the police. Eventually is escalated to him coming into my job and standing just out of sight, behind me while I was ringing up customers. One day he started a fight with a customer and I was able to get him trespassed and get a peace order. Stalkers are never cute, fun or wanted. They live in a fantasy world with no shame and it's sad to see. I hope this person leaves you alone and finds someone else to obsess over. That's all they really want it to project a fantasy onto you.
Loved your take as always. It really was a fabulously written series, there's no denying that Gadd has a lot of talent, and he deserves support and care for the trauma he's experienced. At the same time, if your reclamation or healing process causes harm, well... our own pain doesn't absolve us of perpetuating it.
The constant stigmatization of cluster B personality disorders is so disparaging without discussing any overlap with PTSD, CPTSD or comorbidities it is so dissapointing.
As someone with a cluster B Diagnosis... There's aspects of that thread that were not okay, and I'm glad to see the comments here bringing them up. It's genuinely irrelevant if he has a cluster B or not. Non of the behavior described is unique to cluster B disorders.
i can't wait for the follow up to this follow up, because the comments are so good. i'm pretty disappointed in a lot of the thread, it's pathological and unnecessary. i kinda can't believe kat didn't say anything about throwing diagonises around all flippantly.
I don’t know… this just feels like this woman let herself be talked into dating someone she is not interested in because she wanted the job (which we absolutely should blame him for, putting her in this situation), but then she rationalizes her unwillingness to proceed this relationship by diagnosing him with a personality disorder - instead of just accepting she doesn’t want him.
i'm sorry but this really felt like such a nothing thread lmao. i get that the situation must have been super uncomfortable and it very much wasn't smart or respectful of him to ask her out while she was auditioning, but her conclusion was literally "he wasn't abusive but he for sure has BPD and i have to speak out about that"... girl speak out about what, the fact that your therapist diagnosed him from afar and that you now interpret the entire ordeal through the lens of stigmatizing people with mental illnesses?? i understand that it must feel good to have words for your experience, and certain cluster B traits do overlap with harmful behavior, but that level of speculation on someone's mental health should be kept private. like i really don't get the point of making it such a big part of your "he was kinda weird to me and we should be more mindful about boundaries in the entertainment industry/casting process/whatever" thread (which is 100% true, but that's something you can say that without spending paragraphs on "woagh this reminds me of people being abused by those cluster B demons").
this video is irresponsible. it is part of why male victims are not believed and their experiences are minimized. calling him the common denominator, blaming his "cluster B personality type", and juxtaposing his experiences of physical and psychological abuse with a power offense that did not even take place is absurd. with this video you would have believed baby reindeer portrayed him as some kind of perfect victim. like is this "tea"? cause you're not coming to us with any new information. he was already shown to seek out trans women in the show. so, what is this video for if not to cast doubt to his experiences with zero evidence?
Nothing he did sounds like bpd 11:39 so she implies he’s a creep for “running into her “ but then once she hears she could have a acting opportunity she stayed involved with him 🙄. Also he talks about his treatment of his ex as problematic and touches into not understanding his sexuality etc. It is normal when your point out someone’s prejudices or ignorant views for them to be offended at first . This didn’t seem relevant for her to come out with imo . Like what’s the point of coming out a not so ideal relationship with an ex ( doesn’t even sound like he was an ex) when there wasn’t abuse or exploitation. It’s annoying that this has become normal . We all have shitty interactions and no one is perfect. He just sounds like he was an asshole . I sure we all have been at one point or another to a person or group . The important thing is if you realize that and act differently in the future. I appreciate you for addressing the cycle of abuse
I'm sorry to hear about this, but I hope it doesn't sour Baby Reindeer for anybody- Baby Reindeer is a tough but rewarding and marvellous watch; it's brilliant because it feels so true and real. If Mr Gadd was a perfect person at all times, to everybody, despite his experiences, and everyone said so, then that would be great. To Reece he has come off very badly, been socially awkward, appeared to fetishize her, without seeing her (which is horrible) and maybe he tried to make himself out as powerful, with this new Netflix thing happening, etc (although really, who KNEW? I doubt anyone had a clue Baby Reindeer would be huge like this) and I am sorry she had to experience that. But also it sounds kind of normal and not that bad to want to date someone you're attracted to and say they might be great in your new Netflix thing. So you date, but then they say 'I don't think this is a good idea, sorry' and you say 'come on, why not?' and they say 'alright then, I'll see you again'. And then it ends. I don't like the 'He's cluster B!' thing over TwitterX, I don't see how that helps anybody. I wish you would interview Richard Gadd, Kat. I would love to see that. Thank you for your content 💗
it’s so interesting how people feel the need to come publicly forward about so many private things nowadays. a relationship that went bad and *could’ve* been abusive, i don’t think the general public needs to know.
and yeah, after finally skimming through the comments here.... It seems like nearly a thousand of us (at least 850 so far on one comment) are in agreement that it was disappointing how Kat didn't say ANYTHING at all about the inappropriate parts of Reese's statement
Reece’s post is weird, like he didn’t rlly do anything beside be weird and chaser-y so what’s the point of calling him out? It just seems like an excuse to diagnose him and hate on BPD tbh It’s one of those things that could’ve been handled privately or been talked about without all the details that we didn’t really need to know
Not the person coming forward being lowkey victim blamey and ableist though :( she could have talked abt the power dynamic and chaser vibes without doing alla that fr 😭
im really struggling to understand what him maybe having borderline personality disorder has to do with her experiences with him being sketchy. like.... my mother is a borderline and she's all up and down emotionally (she also has like 4 other mental health diagnosis), but that doesn't make her sketchy. the whole armchair psychologist thing feels so irrelevant to the story this woman is telling. like just say "i felt like he fetishised trans women and tried to abuse his power." he can do that without having a personality disorder, he can do that while having a personality disorder. whether or not he has one is not relevant to the main points of her story. we didn't need a post that detailed how she'd cracked the code and diagnosed him. it just feels in very poor taste and like she could really do with educating herself on mental health and personality disorders bc all she's done there is make herself look extremely ignorant. and i find it weird how she said he was like a "common denominator" in his own show. like... yes... he's the main character? everything happens to him. and people who have been abused often get abused again bc abusers have like a spidey sense for emotional vulnerability. it feels lowkey (and by lowkey i mean highkey) like she was victim blaming him. like "he's the common denominator, what is he doing to have all these bad things happen to him?" his behaviour towards her was wrong and he needed to be called out on it. but her behaviour towards him is also now wrong. the irony that baby reindeer is about how richard gadd is an imperfect victim and now she herself has become an imperfect victim irl is immaculate.
It's all a whole lot of victim blaming, a trans actress calling him a chaser and psycho analysing him as a cluster B personality as if a proper diagnosis could be done over a few text messages or a diagnosis of a condition could paint a whole picture of who someone is, saying he is a "common denominator" is classic victim blaming. First of all victims don't need to be perfect to be validated and second of all this is gossip and hearsay, the fact you thought this ableist and victim blaming gossip of a disgruntled actress who's mad she lost a role could make for content makes me lose a lot of respect for you. I hate the social double standards when it comes to male survivors, and as a neurodivergent, male survivor myself you are doing us all a huge disservice. I regret ever clicking on this video.
16:02 this is EXACTLY how I feel as a "mixed" person in the dating scene. I don't identify that way, but some people NEED me to identify this way because the idea of being with a "mixed person" is more attractive than being with who I say I am.
Okay side note: now I’ve seen the interview with the real woman, the actor who played Martha deserves an Oscar! What a creepily accurate portrayal down to the mannerisms. Also haven’t watched too much of it yet but expect Piers Morgan to platform an abuser 🤣
Between Iris Timberlake, Sherry Pie, (allegedly) ImAllexx, and just a bunch of TikTokkers throwing the diagnosis and as someone with BPD, I have been having so much fun lately with people just throwing BPD around with the frivolous and nonchalant of a toddler in softball who would rather be playing in the mud. This isn't directed towards you, not at all, ohmygod, just towards the people who think it's okay to diagnose others with a severe mental illness without actually being a psychiatrist all because they saw one TikTok with no sources cited and a subway surfer video underneath it. Just exhausting lol
yikes...not even going to call out the ableism? i want to assume you're JUST uneducated yourself, but that just feels too nice. glad other people are highlighting their disappointment in you as well. i developed bpd due to stalking trauma. personality disorders are similar to dissociative disorders in how they form to shield an adolescent from traumatic incidents. not that any of that NEEDs to be spoken about to appropriately talk about cluster b personality disorders. what is the most upsetting is that the "cluster b" thing is totally just thrown in there. HOW is he bpd? WHY would you bother to say that? i assume the "cluster b spaces" the ex was talking about were personality abuse spaces. "personality disorder abuse" isn't real. you're experiencing emotional abuse and wanting to put a more quirky label on it and in turn harming those with personality disorders (which already have some diagnostic criteria worth criticising), AND everyone else empathy towards us. this is cruel. people with personality disorders don't deserve cruelty as much as every other being with a pulse, sentience, and whatnot. you don't call it "autistic abuse" if your abuser happens to be autistic.
i just wanna put this forward: what if baby reindeer was about sexual assault. what if someone used the "you're the common denominatior" then? that is so fucking gross to say to someone and ABOUT someone. it doesnt matter what kind of victim they are, you should NEVER say that about ANYTHING traumatic. victims are more likely to be revictimised too. i hate what society has come to, that we can STILL openly shame victims and blame them all while hiding it behind "criticism."
baby reindeer IS about assault inherently, everything that transpires is a result of the effects of sexual trauma which makes the show so powerful and the comment of 'common denominator' so cruel and harmful to others victims watching
I found her vagueness a bit off putting. Wtf does she mean by an "emotionally disregulated response"? Shes using therapy speak. She keeps putting her contemporaneous thoughts in speach quotations as if she actually said these things to him. If you're going to share your experiences with someone, share your experience. This felt like a really long vaguebook post to me.
Huh, I called my stalker, "my stalker" too. I think it's a pretty damn disparaging term. Haven't heard the rationale yet but it's wild that ppl push back on that?
Bringing up cluster B personality traits like that is not great. I’ve previously had a professor that also has her mental health practice, and she used to tell us that it’s very difficult for people with cluster B (especially BPD) to get a therapist to treat them, because the disorder made it hard for therapists to be around them. Alleging cluster B on someone is really serious and it should not be thrown out like this. This woman could have shed light on the situation without bringing up these traits that she is frankly not fit to speak out upon. People should get a degree and a license before ruining someone’s reputation like this. But of course-key words like npd and bpd get your story noticed.😅
You went a step too far, saying he's exhibiting the behaviour he experienced himself. This series recounts multiple incidences of sexual assault which is not at all whats described in this thread.
As a trans masc I can't help but keep nodding in agreement with the explanation of "chasers". I think my biggest issue with dealing with my own chasers has been the mild paranoid disposition when in early dating stages. A sense of "Are they into me the human being or infatuated with me the ideal?" or even "Do they want a partner for who they are or a societal pat on the back for being the one willing to date trans?". Yes there are many sincere people, but sadly the chaser crowds do exist and leave many of us a bit nervous approaching new romances. Not nervous enough to opt out of dating all together but definitely a bit more vigilant about red flags and pickier over who gets my time/energy/trust.
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That was rough! Thanks for watching!
If you'd like to see my complete thoughts, episode by episode, check out my video over on @_mimc th-cam.com/video/5vfPV7145aA/w-d-xo.html
Also, you can see my hour long video notes for Baby Reindeer ONLY on Patreon: www.patreon.com/posts/baby-reindeer-104256780
i appreciate you watching the piers morgan interview for the first time while filming...very enlightening...unfortunately lol
You’re my best friend ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Ty for avoiding spoilers, much appreciated.
Im sorry but did people really think a show based on one person’s account was going to be entirely accurate? Of course it’s going to be biased and dramatized. it’s a tv show. He has to make it entertaining and enthralling. Im not saying all of it was wrong, but it’s not a surprise certain things were exaggerated.
He also very openly has said it's dramatised but mostly true, like it's not like he's hidden that he dramatised it.
Not to mention, the point of the film was to express the trauma he experienced, not to document what happened step for step.
its almost like he literally said thats what he was doing in the first place. its his story, hes allowed to portray it how ever the fuck he wants.
On top of that he said he purposely dramatized some things so that people would t find her
I hate how the person coming forward constantly shits on people with cluster B personalities disorders, without even naming the trait(s) that Gadd has that remind her of it. You can just name traits or actions that are abusive without stigmatizing an entire group of people. It’s absolutely out of pocket for her therapist to bring up BPD for someone they’ve never met, and ridiculous for her to bring it up publicly. This kind of pathologizing hurts everyone, it only breeds shame.
Thank you for saying it!
Hearing all the ableism towards cluster B folks in the thread was unironically triggering, especially considering not everyone with a cluster B personality disorder acts that way
Yeah that thread was so icky.
I would say that not everyone with cluster B personality traits are bad but some are. I think the problem here is that people can’t hold that people with disabilities and mental illness and penalty make the majority of criminals and abusive people without being able to hold that most disabled and mentally ill or personality disorder are not mostly criminals. So it’s probably not even 25% of every group sre criminal but because they make up the majority of criminals it tends to get stereotyped and we haven’t reached a point where we can talk about these things honestly and without discriminating against groups
So ableist and insensitive. People with BPD are constantly villainized and made into a monolith by these arm chair psychologists. I’m really disappointed that she didn’t just label the behaviors. She didn’t need to pathologize and shit on a group of people who are already very vulnerable and sensitive
thank you!!! like it takes upto a year of regular sessions before most people can be diagnosed with BPD. it’s so unprofessional that the therapist was ready to diagnose someone they’ve never met and that their client has only known for maybe a few weeks.
"He's the common denominator" is such a weird victim blamey observation to make especially when the show itself blatently explores themes of how abuse victims are more likely to be revictimised. That and the generalisations about cluster B with no specifics and him not actually having been diagnosed with any cluster B disorder really sets off warning bells for me
yeah felt that too with the "common denominator" comment.
there was a thick air of victim blaming present.
We don't judge people who have a pattern of being predated upon by abusers who can sense their vulnerabilities, and take advantage of those.
Also Saneism and Ableism are not motivating evidence for me, using a disorder as a reason why someone is a potentially bad person is a red flag for several types of discrimination.
I don't think this draws away from being able to clock trans fetishization, but it certainly doesn't have any conflation in my opinion. Anyone can be transphobic in a fetishizing, othering, degrading way etc.
I’ve been told that during group therapy, it stung so bad
@@PenelopeAstony I wanna say before i say this that im mostly with you, but "We don't judge people who have a pattern of being predated upon by abusers who can sense their vulnerabilities, and take advantage of those. " doesn't quite cut it. I judge everyone. She shouldn't be diagnosing him online, he shouldn't be asking her out while trying to get her hired, he may be fetishizing her, and all that is seperate from his trauma and abuse, just because someone had horrific experiences doesn't mean they get a free pass for whatever future behaviors. Again, though, i'm on your side, as far as her behavior, i just don't agree with that bit of rhetoric. The issue is the ableism/diagnosing on her end, and the bad work/relationship practices and possible current (and definite former) transphobia on his end, though i do think she was somewhat rash in judging him based on a story he wrote about mistakes he made years ago, and i find it somewhat suspect that she doesn't explain what his supposed overreaction was. Shes giving a lot of information and then she uses a very long sentences to not describe anything he says beyond it being "emotionally dysregulated" which could mean anything. Its irresponsible in that shes drawing atttention to something that she then forces you to leave to your imagination, with the context being "it was very bad". She also says she wanted to break it off with him but is then upset when he wants to break it off? I do, though, identify with and support the message she ends on, regardless. Be wary of peoples behavior when they hold power, report it, etc, be even a bit over-vigilant if you need. He shouldn't have approached her in the multiple ways he did, one or the other.
Yeah that did not make any sense
Especially considering that so far, 3 other victims of "Martha" have come forward
To be very clear: I obviously do not like how she diagnosed him and I actually really don’t think it was necessary to do so.
However I am less eager to immediately criticize someone’s own unpleasant description of their relationship within the same moment im reading about
It. But as someone who has dated someone with BPD, even if he had it, it would be shitty to say that he was a bad person for having it. I don’t think that she needed to pathologize him at all
Tbh it didn’t come off like you endorsed it ,fwiw, don’t worry. Her comments miffed me a bit so I was a bit heavy on that in my comment, but I’ll also take the opportunity to addendum again that regardless of how she parses it, it was her (bad) experience that she deserves to talk about - AND… I was so quick to be annoyed by that I didn’t comment on my other thoughts on the video, so I want to apologize if I lit a fire under that. It wasn’t actually that important in the grand scheme of her venting about her experience & you’re totally on point abt that !!
My other thoughts are that this angle of the show production were totally lost on me, and it’s a great thing that you highlighted it esp from your perspective. Have a great weekend 🦆
I love ya Kat, but nowhere in the video was the abl*ism and victim blaming that Reece was perpetuating mentioned at all, which I feel would be a very good thing to do considering the intense stigma that people with BPD face in this world. Letting that abl*ism go unchecked leads to more and more abl*ism when the majority of people have no baseline understanding of what BPD even is. It is already h*ll to live with this disorder and as many others have stated below, most people with BPD are more likely to be the victims of ab*se rather than the perpetuators, more of a danger to ourselves than others, and almost all of us have intense trauma. We need people like you to advocate for us when necessary because the sc rate for people with BPD is astronomical and the stigma only makes it so much worse.
@@KatBlaque would you be willing to criticize that all unpleasant interactions maybe don’t need to be posted on the internet. I would love to get your opinion on the current exposing culture and when it is exposing abusers vs when authorities choose to look the other way or when it is just messy .
By the way it doesn’t even seem like they were in a relationship and even if they were nothing said seem worthy of putting on blast .
@@violetk8025I think the fact there was a direct power imbalance between them but he continued to pursue her is a valid thing to discuss openly. If it weren’t for that, I would agree with you, especially when the story is about a person who already doesn’t pretend to be an angel.
She doesn't get a pass for ableism and saneism because she had a bad relationship, though. It's important to call these things out when we see them. Otherwise it looks like you're supporting it by sharing those ideas uncritically. You can support someone who had a bad experience while acknowledging that they're spreading harmful misinformation.
two things that kind of bother me about reece's twitter thing are the 'he's the common denominator' comment (of course a person's going to be the 'common denominator' in stories about their own experiences. i'm not even sure what she was trying to say with that, but it feels a little victim blamey) and her weird thing with 'cluster b personalities' that feels like the internet's obsession with diagnosing anybody they've ever had a bad experience with as having some kind of cluster b personality disorder and further stigmatising people with those disorders (there are whole articles about how to 'spot the cluster b people in your life and cut them out' and the whole thing kind of sucks ngl)
like idk bro she could've talked about how she had a kind of weird experience with him without doing all that
this is exactly what i was thinking
yeah, and now that he's more famous because of his show, it could lead to more people knowing about the diagnosis but linking it to his actions when he isn't diagnosed with it. public spheres and creating false understanding of mental health disorders is like so common. its why OCD used in colloquial conversations, means nothing. and most people using it in that sense have no idea what it is.
like he did weird stuff, no argument there. but you can say "hey there's probably an explanation for it, not to excuse it, but not gonna label it as anything other than it seems like he fetishizes trans people." like don't bring a disorder into things if he isn't actually diagnosed with it.
If anyone ever responded to me talking about my abuse with "Huh I can't help but notice that you're the common denominator in all those situations" I might slap them actually thinking abt it some more
Glad someone brought up both of these points. Like first off, yeah, he's the common denominator in all his bad experiences. He's the common denominator in all his good experiences too. That's the nature of experience. That was such a weird observation. It feels like...a gotcha that isn't a gotcha.
Along with that, Kat talks about people seeing you through a lens, through this idea of you that isn't really you, and it sounds like Reese did exactly that with Gadd. Like as soon as her therapist brought up BPD as a possibility (which was very unprofessional and inappropriate). Everything he did she saw as evidence of a "cluster-b personality disorder" (The fact she kept flattening very different disorders into that one category as she talks is another red-flag to me). There's so much stigma and so much armchair psych around personality disorders, it was really off-putting (and maybe a tiny bit triggering) to hear her lump every negative thing he did into a diagnosis there's no evidence he even has.
Obviously none of this is to say Gadd didn't behave inappropriately or treat her badly.
Exactly and talking about “idealizing, discarding, etc.” like that’s a criteria for BPD! No that’s just an abuser thing lol. I hate the jargon because it doesn’t add anything to what she has to say. It could’ve been posted without.
I hate how she diagnosis him and contributes his bad behavior with a disorder that a bunch of people have. It sucks.
Yeah, I didn't like this whole vilification of cluster B and
"being a victim of cluster B personality disorder". There are challenges, of course, when it comes to personality disorders, that's why they are disorders, but she's making people with cluster B sound terrible and like they're all the same and abusive. Icky!
Gadd's behavior was inappropriate and unprofessional, but this girl is being massively irresponsible and ableist by trying to armchair diagnose him. I don't care how many reddit threads she's read, it's not her place to spread rumors about his mental health or demonize people with personality disorders. It was also incredibly shitty to compare his behavior to that of his abuser. Yes, there was an age and power difference, but that's nowhere near the same level as drugging and assaulting someone. Then again, she seems to think the difference between abuse and a bad relationship is just "labels."
Frankly the whole post screams "bitter ex who thinks reading reddit makes them a psychologist." Do I think Gadd is a chaser and probably a shitty boyfriend? Yes. Do I think it was appropriate to bring those things up? Yes. But the way she did it was disgusting, and Kat really should have called it out.
I think you’re very naive.
@@Enormous866how? give reasons. elaborate.
@@Enormous866 If you're just gonna leave a vague judgment to leave people confused, please take that lazy and troll-like behaviour to Truth Social where it's expected... or just like explain yourself..?
I think I speak for a lot of people when I state we shouldn't have to ask you for a common-sense or understandable reply from someone being negative and possibly rude. 🤷♂
What she describes is in fact abuse. He did abuse a position of power. When she says that she felt like she couldn't say no without loosing the opportunity, everything becomes clear. Gadd isn't just a chaser or a shitty boyfriend, he's someone who used his position (perhaps inadvertently) to have a romantic relationship (maybe even sex) with someone. The fact is, what she describes is feeling coerced, and coercition relies less on the culprit's intentions than on how the victim feels.
Though you're right that the way she went about it (the ableism/sanism and the victim-blaming) is completely wrong. However since she's hellbent on not recognizing the true nature of what happened (abuse), because as she states she sees it as less important than other types of abuse (as the larger public do and as it may be) I personally think that is the only way she found to speak and make sense of it.
@@l01230123 its TH-cam... relax
I don't like how she spoke abt mental illness and seemed to project more harmful intentions onto him than he had. BUT, I do think the power dynamic was creepy and I don't blame her for getting chaser vibes from him and wanting to steer clear.
Them having a power dynamic issue would imply he had power over her. Virtually no one in the acting world knew of him before the show aired and he made it clear to her it was up to the casting directors and producers, he had no say. And even tho they green-lit the show they could've as easily cut the process in pre production. And if she did agree to date him because that would potentially increase her chances that's another thing. Don't get me wrong he is wrong for asking out someone who he initially contacted for work but throwing around words like ''abuse'' in this situation is weird considering the person who made the post didn't even felt abused.. Actors, directors and writers date each other all the time. If he offered her the role in exchange for sleeping with him that would've been different
I agree, like she read 3 articles on a group of mental illnesses and thought she knew enough to diagnose him. 🤭
@@elaine-fi8cjThis is so wrong. You don't need to be well known to have power over someone. Holding a job over someone's head/being able to to get you that job based on how you act with them IS having power over her. This is HE'S special, I highly, highly, highly, doubt he had little to no say in casting as he's the one needed to make sure it's accurate. If he told her that, we are taking him at face value.
@@elaine-fi8cjThe issue is that the offer to audition for a Netflix show (a huge opportunity) and him stating that he was attracted to her were coupled together. It’s like if you get a job interview and the interviewer mentions they’d like to date you, it’s unprofessional and there’s no way to know if you rejecting them will affect the outcome of the job placement. Power doesn’t always equal notoriety or fame. I do think there was a power imbalance.
@@elaine-fi8cj I agree to this. There are some underlines on what she's saying that gives me the vibes she only went on with him because she was a clout chaser as well, and would have never gotten into him if he had no Netflix upcoming show. I'm not saying he wasn't a a creep, he was. It was inappropriate of him to chase someone who could be in a professional environment with him, especially after she said no and given the power dynamics. But on another hand, she didn't make him back out when he insisted on it. She even leaned into it for a bit in order to potentially increase her chances of being cast or dating someone with a Netflix show. Let's be honest, those were her intentions. It wasn't dating simply because she was interested on the guy, but because of what that guy represented to her and her clout chasing sensibilities. There was no right in this one, both were wrong and if she was truly that invested in her own dignity she could have simply make him back out, speak to the show production or give up on the show overall.
Also, why was there no post or stories from these people before the show exploded, or even in its first weeks? Clout chasers will be clout chasers no matter what.
I’m not a fan of the stalker ‘my’ policing tbh as someone with a stalker. It feels like victim blaming. Do we have data that this would deter them at all? I blocked my stalker on social media so he had no idea how I would refer to him. I don’t think we should be pretending that victims have control over how stalkers behave - they don’t.
absolutely. My ex stalked me for 8 months until I was able to get a restraining order. Despite never engaging and continously blocking he would just make new phone numbers and emails. I was absolutely fine calling him my stalker because he was, and trying to detach from that seems to diminish the reality that I was being targeted on purpose. It just puts more pressure on victims to detach and be in control when that's nearly impossible under that much stress and abuse.
I hate to admit this, but I did my fair share at one time (I was a cringe worthy 20 year old). And ya, hearing them claim me as "my ____" felt good. I think in casual convos w/ friends and such, it's perfectly fine. But in anything they might read or see online; it's probably better not to use claiming words like mine, my, ours, etc. I get what lilmorsecody is saying; it's absolutely not meant to put more work on you. It's only a consideration people should be aware of. Stalkers do look for any little hint or sign that they have some form of intimacy with you. Even when it's obviously not positive or consensual.
I don't think it necessarily has to do with their behaviour which you don't have control over like you said. But it can help the victim to cope and distance themselves emotionally.
If it doesn't help you of course nobody should ever police somebody else over it (same goes for survivor/victim), you're definitely right about that!
i hate to say this, but yes it actually does impact a lot. stalkers actually ENJOY being referred to as "my" because it creates a relationship . saying "theyre my stalker" creates a bond, even though to us its negative, to them its still a relationship. it reinforces their belief that they mean something to you. it shows the, that you actively talk about them in a "possessive" way, which obviously isnt REALLY what it is but in their mind, its possessive. i seriously recognise doing dome reading on how stalkers' minds interpret certain things we dont even consider.
I don't think it comes from a place of victim blaming. the people that told her not to say that just want to make sure she doesn't accidentally play into the stalker's messed up desires. I think it's better to be safe.
I really wish she could just talk about his chaser behavior and the pressure she felt from auditioning for a romantically interested director instead of constantly trying to diagnose and demonize perceived BPD. As someone diagnosed with PTSD, I was always convinced that my issues stemmed from BPD and that community gave me hope to get better and seek treatment and gave me the grace to be kinder to myself. It's really nasty that she wants to sit here and diagnose him as having a personality disorder just because he made her uncomfortable a few times and imply that having a personality disorder makes you some form of abuser or tone deaf and disrespectful. Abusers can have personality disorders but there was absolutely no reason for her ablism.
I understand how the pressure from being in the ranks of a potential casting for a show could affect your ability to consent. However, I don’t see how this was not something they pursue after their professional relationship had subsided, or at least the auditioning process had closed. I’m not blaming her, what he was doing was obviously out of line and hella creepy for a professional, but I feel that her boundaries were put in place too late in the dynamic and she didn’t make it clear from the jump what she wanted out of it. He obviously didn’t have a problem with it, as she is the one reeling with the after effects of the situation and posting about it online. In that way, if we teach and encourage people how to respect, keep and uphold their own boundaries, it could be a much safer way to navigate unpredictable circumstances such as this one.
Like I feel for her, I really do. But dating or coming across people such as this is normal and to be expected, especially inside of the arts & entertainment industry. The bpd thing is irrelevant to me because I don’t think it’s the disorder she’s mad at. She’s mad at him, his actions + lack of accountability, and is finding ways to cope with what seemed to be an emotionally upsetting and unnerving situation. It was also probably invalidating for her too. As a wise person once said, “there are a million ways something can go wrong.” And I think that rings true here as well - she found herself with someone who was, and probably still is, wholly unfit to date.
i had a visceral gut reaction at reece's blatant stigmatization of cluster b personality disorders but seeing so many call it out in this comments section brought me a lot of comfort and hope for humanity. thank you everyone and thank you kat for fostering such a cool and supportive community
I am really proud of the comment section too, my thoughts exactly
yes, thank you to everyone here for recognizing the harm that assumptions like that cause! esp as someone with mental illness and a close friend with BPD, I hate when people armchair diagnose others and try to associate toxic behavior with the disorder, as if that's a guaranteed thing that people with personality disorders will do. it's such a shitty generalization that only ends up making people more scared of those with personality disorders.
Reece's pathologizing of Gadd is kinda gross. You can call someone a creep or flake or abuser or point out that they're re-igniting a cycle of trauma all without labelling them with any disorder. Some of the language is probably helpful (" In the thread, she managed to both demonize individuals with cluster B disorders *and* say "Well, he didn't realize what he was doing was wrong" which, in my opinion, helps nobody. I don't think it's helpful to her healing process, and it's definitely not helpful to those dealing with these disorders.
Also gross - people policing how you refer to your stalker. It's your experience. The stalker is most likely going to act the same regardless of how you refer to them, the least people can do is give you agency in how you refer to your experiences
Tbf she does have some self awareness about the pathologising him (her words), I think she was just trying to share how she processed it. (Even if it’s obvious who she was talking about, she never named him, hasn’t followed up, etc). And I don’t think she would call him those things because she wasn’t processing it from a moral perspective but from a personal, psychological one. Like, idk, I’ve heard people describe their criminally neglectful mother as “crazy, frigid bitch,” the man that groped them as “that (f-slur),” fall back on sexist myths of all men as sex-crazed because of their experience with assault, etc. At the end of the day, people can only use the language they’re given, and it’s best to focus on the message and criticise the larger discourse which gave them that language, rather than the people, no? But I see your point ofc
My interpretation of the stalker comment was that it's possible the stalker could take encouragement from being referred to as "hers."
I mean that's true..But there is a really large factor of people using pop psychology/therepy speak as a weapon against people. To the point that it has become a common manipulation tactic that abusers employ. So yeah agreed it's very much worth examining that larger discourse than a individual said language.
Though I'm kinda mixed on the letting the language sexism, bigotry to describe experiences go entirely. I mean it's not likely revelant to this situation. And yeah prople love to point out a trauma survivor did a bad thing, then dogpile them.
No because survivors of trauma who fixate and contextualize their trauma with their own bigotry are often targets to be radicalized. Like operational sexism leading to become a gender critical or pathologizing men categorically accidentally (sometimes intentionally but that's a whole nother can of worms) perpetuates patriarchy by naturalizing patriarchal violence. And the whole thing snowballs. But that's a larger question for a person's support systems and institutions that work with victims of coercion/violence ie. Not places like twitter.
@@yoyopron This. It's not "problematic" in terms of internet problematic, if that makes sense. It's problematic in the sense of it gives the stalker validation on the connection between stalker and victim.
Oh God that "common denominator" shit really sets me off. It's almost as if people who experience abuse make easier targets for the next abuser. Who would have thought?
i'm a trans stalking victim with bpd who has been abused by people with other personality disorders. no matter what happened to her, the way she immediately pathologized him is wrong. bpd is one of the most outwardly stigmatized disorders; i find it very hard to find resources to help myself because of the oversaturation of resources that tell other people how to 'deal with' me. it's heartbreaking to see someone abused in the way i was, then turn around and blame the exact thing that my abuse resulted in: a personality disorder.
surprisingly this is one of the first times i've seen bpd demonized so hard. i'm mostly used to the demonization of npd, everyone and their brother calls a vain person or cheating ex a "narcissist"
@the-postal-dude I love the ironic instances when it’s the narcissist going around calling the other person a narcissist to control the narrative.
@@basicallyno1722 "demonizing npd" also applies to calling the sanist a narcissist, hope this helps
Idk i think people are hyperfocusing on this one singular thing, the "conviction", when everything else he talked about has been backed up by evidence.
My theory is, i can see how people might not understand the nuances of what happened to "Martha's" previous victim. She did get told legally to stay away from her, but it's not a well known or understood legal principle.
He made it easier to understand by the masses.
Hes also, and i say this so much, not a perfect victim and he doesnt have to be. He can make bad choices and still be a victim.
richard gadd does not portray himself in the best light in the show! i think it's incredibly meaningful that he can acknowledge his own flaws because his character is a great portrayal of an imperfect victim
Yeah him being perhaps a chaser, boundary pusher, sex pest, ass hat and all the baggage with that, psychoathologizing him is unnecessary. Like that's shitty enough. But also bpd has unique systemic issues plus post trauma is messy and conflated with it. Like just let him be an asshole, the vague therepy talk is reaaaaally not helpful. Let his therapist do that with him.
I don’t… love. How this girl came forward like “yes it appears he has a cluster B disorder … which is an affront all on its own” but I obviously empathize with her experience, regardless of how she syntaxes it
Yeah ngl as someone with BPD it hurt. Like "attempting to have a romantic relationship" ??? Like I'm sorry I have abandonment issues and repeated trauma so I'm hard to love I guess smh
@@maxyeeewe are not hard to love, i have bpd and just celebrated my 5 year aniversary. Therapy and accountability are important but its more important to date someone that cares loves and acepts you enough to work together to create a good relationship because talking is all that matters
@@maxyeee yeah same here. FWIW while it bothered me, I will give her some grace in that I think she’s young (?) and I know, when I was younger, some of that psychoanalyzing speak stuff resonated w me as a way to pad out my histories with people (like my mom) even tho I also, have Disorders lol.
@@maxyeee BPD is extremely manageable as a cluster B with the right help, meditation and therapy. I'm sure you already and loads know this, but I wanted to state it anyway so the people who have BPD and got put in a bad place because of the unchecked (not by Kat) ableism know there's always hope and a possibility for improvement 💖
this happens so much with npd too. my heart is with those with bpd and other cluster b disorders, i know this shit is tiring.
''yet i couldn't help but notice how in all of this situations he was the common denominator'' Oh the classic victim blaming technique, followed by amateur diagnosing and no so subtle ableism. If she acted like this in their conversations as well trying to victim blame and diagnose him, then maybe that's why he found her confrontational. And Kat is agreeing and nodding is so surprising to me. Dont get me wrong he shouldn't have tried to date someone auditioning on his project, im not excusing his behavior but Kat nodding at the ableism and victim blaming is weird, real weird
I’m so confused by how many people in his life are coming forward to “expose” him and clout chase while also coming off as the bad ones.
He only comes off as more of a victim which is not their goal 🤷♀️
Oh joy another psychoanalyst "diagnosing" someone's shitty behavior as BPD, so fun, I love being generalized by people that have no actual understanding of personality disorders 🙄
Your comments about men who interact with you and other trans women as a fetish and dating their projection were spot on. I had that experience earlier this year. It was wild as hell. No matter what I said, this man could not be convinced that I was who I said I was personality-wise. I wasn’t a full person in his eyes and was only ever "sweet" and adorable to him. He saw a tall curvy Black woman and projected his fantasies and past partners (all similar in height and build to me) onto me. It was incredibly frustrating; it was like dating a brick wall!!
ughhhh same.......
Yes! It’s something I never really put much thought in but it’s so relatable. I checked all his boxes Latina, short, trans and if I ever acted in a way outside his fantasy or didn’t share the same interests as him, he would make me feel guilty and that I’m in the wrong and I should like what he likes. While he never gave any effort into the things I liked
Did I write this post and not remember. I’m giving up the drink.
Me too even as a trans guy it always felt like my ex wanted me to be something I never was to begin with despite telling me that he loved everything about me to the point where felt like if I didn't change myself for him then he wouldn't want be with me anymore but I didn't want to realize it for a long time because I was already in love with him
@@skye2011 did your ex identify as lgbt ?
She definitely has a right to call out what I would call predatory behavior with that power dynamic, but she shouldn’t be pathologizing him like that. She doesn’t need to to identify the bad experience for what it is. People need to keep in mind that living with a disability (including mental illnesses) makes you more likely to be a victim of abuse rather than a perpetrator. His abusive behavior isn’t caused by a mental illness.
So ive had a woman who raped assaulted and stalked me over the past year in the half. She has shown up to my Job, across Statelines, and to my home multiple times. i've had to move multiple times, and recently changed my number for the 6th time.
I think the most damaging part of my experience is not even the act of rape anymore. At least not anymore. Its the way she weaponized the double standard surrounding rape and harrasment done by women to further traumatize me. "I must have sent out some sort of sign. I must have wanted it. I must have done something to justify her behavior, I must have LIKED it, because men cant be raped" etc. Watching the interviews and hearing the comments of this man's stalker on her rape of him really struck a chord with me for that reason.
I really emphathizes with Gadd.
I never expected him to be perfect.
And yet, for Gadd to spin around and engage in such sadly common problematic behavior, without an ounce of self reflection about his behavior almost makes me so sad and disappointed and scared.
Will my own future relationships now be colored by my own inability to overcome my trauma? idk.
Just my thoughts. Thanks again for the great video Kat
Your future relationships will be what you build with that person. Trauma molds who you are but it does not define you. It might be more work to set boundaries and communicate, but it will not ruin anything. A person that will truly love you will understand and give you grace while building a relationship with you. I wish you all the best on your healing and your future. I am so sorry you have been hurt so much.
you deserve healing and support and I hope you are able to access it
"If you are scared enough to fear repeating abuse cycles. Then you are already self aware enough to prevent it." Is what I have been told having similar fears. I am sorry you had to suffer so much. I hope life treats you better.
Healing from trauma is not a linear process and you’ll have mountains and valleys to climb. All you can do is approach it with humility and vulnerability, and a realization that you’re not perfect. Gadd has his demons, as do many of us.
Let's unalive that bishhhhh
I'm not entirely sure what Reece's point is. I'm hearing: "He didn't abuse me but I'm going to imply in this lengthy post that he is a dangerous man who needs to be avoided". Very confusing.
Before Baby Reindeer, virtually no one in the acting world knew who he was and I'm not sure that he was in a position to abuse power. Actors are allowed to date directors/producers/writers and that's common in the industry. Perhaps I missed the part where Gadd offered Reece a part in the show if he could have sex with her. Or maybe I'm just being completely ignorant about the whole ordeal
My thoughts exactly. Whoever this person is, they're being messy for no clear reason. And if they're not just being messy and he is dangerous, then she needed to be clearer and more specific in her accusations or just pipe down and sit back in her seat because this whole vague "I'm not accusing him but I'm definitely accusing him" mess is ridiculous and unhelpful.
Also, she agreed to go on a date with him and continued with the audition, she wanted to end things, he wanted to try and make it work, he didn’t hire her, and he said that their relationship wouldn’t work out and they parted ways. It just kinda sounds like a messy situationship in a strange circumstance, I don’t doubt that he might be a chaser but other than that he didn’t really do anything unethical to exploit the power imbalance, especially since he didn’t end up casting her and also decided to end the relationship
I mean he was making a show for the most famous streaming platform in the world, wich kinda makes things unbalanced
That definitely puts the validity of her claims into question if she not only can't come up with any specific behavior that was off-putting, but also uses the opportunity to spout saneist rhetoric... that's not something a victim does. That's abuser behavior.
@@agnessofiacastrocarvalho774 I agree but all relationships are imbalanced to some degree. I don't like making assumptions but it does sound a bit like Reece is upset because she dated Gadd thinking it would guarantee her a part in his show but it didn't and now she is livid because his show became a massive hit. She even wrote that she agreed to a date with him because she still needed to audition and didn't want to hurt her chances. I am a massive advocate of taking down people who abuse their power yet I'm still struggling to understand what Reece's damages were in this situation, besides being fetishized of course
I have BPD, and I work in the mental health field with people who have other cluster b personality disorders. I’m very VERY tired of people acting like having a PD is the same as being abusive, toxic, etc.
Literally
“Gadd is probably a chaser, I got iffy vibes from him and the power dynamic, and he didn’t take no for an answer.. so he probably has borderline personality disorder.”
I feel like I’m missing something. I’ll take her word for everything that happened, but I still think it’s very inappropriate to make armchair diagnoses about someone like that. Not only does it take multiple in-person sessions to potentially diagnose someone with a personality disorder, it further stigmatises people with those disorders as if only people with (personality) disorders do awful things to other people.
To me, this just reads like someone who’s very upset about a situation they had with someone and wants to claim certain clinical language to validate their own pain.
the problem being that how do you know if his claim is even true? narcissists do like to make others look ''insane''. Makes you wonder if ''martha'' is really the problem after all......
@@aporue5893 what were we saying about stigmatizing cluster b personality disorders?
Isn't is a huge no-no for a mental health profesisonal to even mention a diagnosis of another person they have never met or treated??
yes it absolutely is that therapist was sooooooo out of line 😭
Anyone else feel icky about the person coming out diagnosed him and framed that as proof of his abuse.
The ableism from the accuser was absolutely insane but unsurprising. Ever since narcissist became a term to mean abuser or toxic person rather than an entire personality disorder, how could I possibly be surprised when people who don't understand mental illnesses or disorders associate those who struggle with mental health with abuse? You can be perfectly mentally sound, healthy and have no disorder at all and those same exact people are the ones who can be abusers. Oftentimes, this is exactly the case. That one toxic person exhibiting certain traits towards you wasn't special, they just chose to act that way because they lack empathy specifically towards you, not just in general.
I think it partially stems from the fact that the word narcissist has been used in the English language to mean someone who's self obsessed long before Freud and psychology as a field existed the way we know then today.
Because narcissistic personality disorder was named after an adjective people were already using as a bit of an umbrella term for selfishness and vanity, there's a lot of confusion. Long story short I think it's the people who named it NPD that messed up
I disagree. Narcissist has always been used like that. It's always been common for horrible people to self-diagnose the person they don't like, using whatever words they already knew. I first saw it with autism, but BPD, NPD, bipolar, schizophrenia, schizo-affective, and schizoid have all had their day of being misunderstood by people trying to justify their hatred of someone. That's been a thing I've seen since the internet was new, so I imagine it's been around almost as long as psychiatry has. It being called out and recognized as abusive behavior though, that's new and I'm glad to see it.
@@kjarakravik4837 I don't think so. While the origin of the term was to indicate someone that was in love with themselves (from a greek myth), words evolve and change their meaning with the language. In addition, the reason the word is now used to indicate "toxic" comes from the trend of people using armchair psychology. For example, autism being used as an offensive term for saying "stupid" doesn't come from the word itself but from people being ableist, and it's a reoccurring phenomenon with every mental illness, disability or disorder that those people can get their hands on.
"Suddenly I was meet with an intense emotionally disregulated reaction" idk why but this phrase feels off to me. Like as if his reaction to be called a fetishizer is unwarranted any kind of emotional response? I don't know mixing with a casual victim blamy line "He was the common denominator " her points just feels very iffy to me in general. Maybe im over analyzing idk.
my literal first thought was "dude most people are going to get defensive when you callously call them a fetishizer"
It's something that I think I had a combined... like, I wouldn't be surprised that he would react that way, whether he was being falsely accused of fetishizing her or if it was an accurate accusation. In neither case do people tend to react well to that just being brought out into the open air.
But that phrasing? Combined with the armchair diagnosis stuff? Felt like she was setting the stage for tying that in with ableist language later on. It was not a pleasant feeling to tie to it. Like a lot of other people have said here in the comments: You can call out behavior without tying it to an armchair diagnosis. tbh it felt more like it weighed down the rest of what she had to say, because with the element of the armchair diagnosis it made me wonder how much of her testimony was getting warped through that perspective she was assigning to the whole thing, of him "having" a personality disorder, and her "needing" to use terms that would fit within therapy talk as a result.
“It wasn’t numerous.” “It was about 18 Tweets.” AHHHHHH.
that interview pissed me off so much
He's the common denominator? How sick and disgusting to say.
"sure i stalked him but he's also not perfect." Literally the entire final point of the show was to show how much the relationship had effected gadd's mind to the point of it consuming him in a very unhealthy manner. The show does not shy away at any point from how pathetic and gross gadd is being throughout the entire ordeal. And yet none of that makes anything she did ok.
I can’t really get behind what the person coming forward is saying because she’s only using technical terms to pathologize instead of describing how she felt & what happened. Doesn’t sit right with me. And having a shit experience with someone is already bad enough. You don’t need to embellish your story with technical terms you’re not even qualified to use. It doesn’t make anyone sound more convincing or believable, it’s annoying and lowkey manipulative because it implies that everyone has to feel the same way about what happened. That just doesn’t sit right with me.
Do you think she was trying to rationalize his behaviour to herself? Like "Yes he hurt me, but he couldnt know any better"?
"he was the common denominator" --yeah its a story about him. I would be the common denominator in the story of my life also. "I decided to say yes" --she sounds like the guy from baby reindeer.
Once a person blames their problems with another person because they have a "cluster B disorder" and they reference cluster B hating communities, they lose all credibility in my eyes. Tell me you don't take responsibility for your own shortcomings without telling me... Like, I feel sorry for her to an extent and shame on him for using his power, but it has nothing to do with having a "cluster B" disorder. Her whole tirade showed me that there is a deep misunderstanding of the dynamics at play here and what the real problem is.
I'm not gonna lie, her whole article made me feel like I was reading a post on r/bpdlovedones 😭 iykyk
I have BPD and i hate how people think they can diagnose people with no understanding of the disorders. You're not a professional and you don't have the ability to do that and stigmatize others with it ugh.
I always thought it was funny how it's always people who've never been to a therapist in their life that seem the most confident about using a term they just heard and haven't looked up. It's got to be towards the top of the 'confidently incorrect' pyramid. (I'm putting transvestigators at the very tippy top)
@@Scarfgirl I thought that person had a therapist because she put out a comment from her therapist out into the world?
@@maimee1 yeah and what a therapist that decided to diagnose someone that they haven't even seen once...lmao
That whole cluster b thing pisses me off. You can just say there were red flags that you were about to date an immature jerk, no need to bring borderline into it.
i'm kinda confused about what reece's point is even supposed to be. Simply implying someone you only sorta know to have BPD is really REALLY weird.
I was diagnosed with bpd. I have no idea what this girl is on about. It's like she figured out he was a criminal or something. Also, I don't have trouble with boundaries and I don't abuse people. Why do people think people with personality disorders have the SAME personality. It's a disorder in one's own individual personality.
Victims becoming abusers is not uncommon. It can happen with every form of trauma. So it doesn't surprise me that the writer was treating the trans actress in a bad way. I do take issue with her including the pathological musings of he therapist. In my experience, a therapist will never assign a diagnostic label on a person described by a person they are treating. The fact that their therapist did, makes me concerned.
Interesting experience. I've seen 7 therapists in various states. CA, NV, MA, CT and 4 of them offered a diagnosis for my mom without prompting. So it does happen. These people were anything from a social worker to a psychologist. I thought it was very common. I'm wondering how many you've seen and in what area?
@@SerafinaP In my life I have seen 6. Though only 2 were ever in a position to be asked about a diagnosis. They both told me outright that they could not offer one without evaluating the person. They focused instead on the behaviors (like the use of suicide as manipulation to get what a person wants), the situation (like if I was dependent on the person or what my relationship was like, if I had other members of a support network), and how I felt or understand things (like how I felt about the actions of the other person and if I understood that their actions were beyond my control). The fact that your experience is different is interesting to me. What would happen if for example you left out or did not know an important factor of a condition and the offered diagnosis was incorrect? That's usually why medical doctors and lawyers avoid giving any firm advice without evaluating a person. I guess they are just human. Heck, even my grandma's hospice nurse was an anti vaccination believer. So maybe I just got lucky with my therapy 🤷. Oh also, all were in California.
You could not get me to admit to being the person portrayed in that show with a gun to my head. Idk. What the fuck.
The real martha didnt have to oust herself like that, I think the grape allegation was when she groped him near the bridge, i forget which ep
Honestly I think she's deeply unwell and either didn't understand that it would make her look guiltier, or wanted the attention badly enough not to care.
40000 emails is 55 a day for 2 years
People keep saying "it's impossible to do that so it must be a lie" but the show shows that she literally would send stuff like "Just had an egg come and f**k me baby reindeer sent from my iphoen" so it's really not impossible to write that many of them
@@ashlabelle yeah, if you think about it in terms of IM messages instead it definitely seems plausible. I've easily sent 55+ whatsapp messages in a day to people I'm in active conversation with 🤷
@@ashlabelleStalkers are incredibly persistent. The average stalker pursues their victims for 7 years. I often can’t believe the dedication of stalkers.
boogie2988 tweets would like to prove its possible
There is something.... Er... Off with this tweet thread, and i cant quite verbalize what it is.
Like, yes, the Cluster B stigmatization is awful..but its also really strangely placed? Because... Lets say for the sake of argument he has a cluster B disorder. And also for tue sake of argument that all people with cluster B disorders are toxic and abusive. Then wouldn't he have been doing her a FAVOR by ending things - and also by not giving her the role as well. Idk
I dont really know how to explain how this makes me feel. I wish i did. It just seems off.
I commented on another comment thread that she wanted to dig for some gold. He was creepy and inappropriate, shame on him for pursuing her in that situation, but she disregarded her own boundaries. She could have said no again when he insisted, but she wanted to date someone with a Netflix show. At no point her interest in him comes off as if she was truly interested in him, she was interested in clout chasing and possibly increasing her chances of being cast or getting another job by dating someone with a Netflix show. She was a gold digger who got mad when all she dug out was some dirty pieces of trauma, and should re-evaluate why she was angry when he ended things. Wasn't it a blessing? Not on a clout chaser's mind, she lost the chance of dating someone with a successful Netflix show and want to be seen no matter what.
I know a couple of people very well that experienced abuse at the hands of people with borderline personality disorder. But I've also talk to them about how these online communities and reddits are often ableist echo chambers where every single person with a disorder becomes a supervillain. Disappointed that a good discussion of cycles of abuse became a reason to shit on people who struggle with something that it takes years of work to even manage.
I honestly think it's wild that the person who came forward "diagnosis" him as cluster B when it seems like, by their own account, their interactions were fairly limited. You felt fetishized, you read his play, he didn't give you a job. It's over.
Having a personality disorder myself (not BPD tho) the ableism in Reece's tweets gave me an immense ick, so seeing how many people in the comments call it out was a big relief. I'm glad to see that we can talk about Gadd's creepy behaviour and being a chaser without resulting to couch diagnosing and dragging down the people dealing with cluster B :)
I do believe that Gadd is probably a chaser, and he did behave inappropriately. As others have pointed out, however, I'm a bit uncomfortable with Reece's emphasis on cluster B personality disorders. There's nothing inherently abusive or toxic about those disorders, no matter what people might think. For her therapist to armchair-diagnose a person like that is incredibly unprofessional, and Reece's posts could further intensify the already overwhelming stigma against cluster B personality disorders. It's irresponsible.
he seems a bit fishy.
Everyone in this drama is being kinda shitty to be honest. Gadd is being gross, Reece is being ableist, and the potentially real stalker is not coming off as very honest.
The whole accusation just feels like it’s describing someone who’s socially clumsy and bad at boundaries
Which sounds very accurate to Richard but I don’t get how that’s supposed to be a big accusation
Besides what everyone already said about the victim blaming and cluster B comments, I just feel like that woman coming forward has been armed by her therapist with psychological jargon and she's now using it inappropriately to justify her feelings and completely disregard his feelings, chucking them up in a "he's just crazy" mess.
Not saying that he wasn't being a horrible person, I'm saying that this doesn't sound like a healthy way to talk about it or to cope with something like this.
You can see it clearly when she talks about his reactions to the accusations. We get to see an exact quote of what she said ("I think you fetishize trans women"), but his entire reply was just "a disregulated emotional reaction", and we don't get to see his point of view because apparently he was too emotional to be taken seriously, which feels extremely gaslight-y to me.
Honestly, it just says a lot about her therapist, which in my opinion probably did a pretty bad job.
Either that, or this woman spends wayyy too much time "researching" psychology online.
The way she started the whole thread with a blatant armchair diagnosis made my eyebrow rise so much it touched the ceiling 🤨
yeah as someone who's actually working towards a counseling career..............her therapist is not doing enough to keep her grounded. you don't just teach someone these constructs and let them run wild with their own ideas about them. you need to help them UNDERSTAND the full meanings and consequences behind that language. if you observe assumptive tendencies in your client, it is DEEPLY irresponsible to leave their assumptions unexamined, especially when those assumptions are about concepts that YOU TAUGHT THEM YOURSELF!!!!!! somebody needs to either invest a little harder in their cont ed credits or find a new line of work!!
I think its irresponsible to give platform to claims that are that ableist and victim-blamy I usually love this commentary content but this time I felt it was careless the way it was handled
All she had to say was: He sucked and gave chaser vibes
Why are we armchair diagnosing and not mentioning it?
The fact that she keeps coming back to diagnosing him with a mental illness rubs me the wrong way entirely. His behaviour also doesn’t necessarily seem healthy or like he is someone you would wanna start a relationship with. But the way she is trying to diagnose him in this threat makes me think that she may have talked in a similar way when she confronted him and, tbh, I would also react dismissively when someone tries to „diagnose“ me and use my trauma against me. If the point is to call him out on chaser behaviour just stick to that.
From her account, they didn’t even sleep together? He said she should audition, they went on a couple dates, she didn’t get an audition, and she diagnosed him as having borderline personality disorder, based on something her therapist said (WTF therapist does that?), having never met him. Okay, girl. She also assumes he has a fetish based on the script, and which is pretty unfair.
The only thing that was exaggerated was that police protect you from stalkers and the justice system will actually jail them
This feels a bit... rough. Like There's definitely something here about how people should be aware that an experience between two people can be perceived in two different ways by both people and that one person might have been really traumatized by it and one person might not have been. It seems to me as an outsider a lack of communication on both parties' accounts??
My issue really here is that she used her therapist's words and opinions on a version of him that she told her therapist about and pushed that as a diagnosis.
Not to mention the blatant ableism in the way she speaks about anyone who suffers from that specific personality disorder. The way that she tells these events are from her perspective and that's valid. My issue is that now people are repeating this thought that anyone who exhibits traits like that must have this type of personality disorder and that it is wrong to have that type of disorder.
ANYONE can exhibit behavior like mistreating other people and issues communicating and such.
I can't speak on the fetishization of trans women because I'm not a trans woman but I have had experiences where people treat me different and how others impressions of me are blinded by the fact that I'm a trans man. It's like you're not just. "A man" to people. You're "a trans man" and that is like another category of human to some people. It's baffling...
I do wish that Kat brought up the blatant ableism, though!!
It's really hard to hear someone talk about a bad experience and then equate it to "this person is CLEARLY suffering from MENTAL ILLNESS" and then plaster it all over the news in light of a recent netflix show. No shade on her for doing an interview about calling out issues she might have had with her relationship in light of the fetishization of trans women but the ableism!! Is just so blatant!!! Why did she muddle her personal account with her ableism!!
The fact the stalker is out and about, free and invited to talk publicly says a lot about the double standards that society has for male survivors and female abusers.
This was very triggering as a survivor of SA myself this series helped me relief a lot of the shame I've been suffering since it happened specially because people didn't believe me, question why I allowed it, people that knew my Agressor said that maybe he is sorry, that I got confused, that I shouldn't talk about it and to top it all off having a WhatsApp conversation talking about what happened with my abuser were he admits the act occured wasn't enough evidence to even file a report against him, so he is still out there also free and about probably doing the same to others, with what I can only describe as his support system of grape enables around.
There are absolutely double standards, like messages that women can’t be sexual abusers, or that it’s not as serious somehow. (A lot of the trans bathroom rhetoric relies on the idea that cis women are never offenders.) That said, plenty of men get a free pass despite abuse allegations. Roman Polanski has well known defenders. Weinstein has rumors around him for years before anyone really did anything. Both major US presidential candidates …. You get the idea.
A few months ago I wathced a doc on netflix about stalkers. One woman had a kid with this guy who tried to run her over. When he got out of prison, she had to see him and has shared custody. It's true that there is a double standard, but in general stalkers get off easy regardless of the genders involved.
honestly with that trans actor i do believe her and i think that was horrible for her, but i dont think its fair to shift the blame 100% onto people with BPD. i understand where shes coming from, i had an ex who blamed her abusive traits on her BPD and that made me really scared of people with BPD. but it's honestly super dismissive of people with BPD who arent abusers and, to an extent, of her own situation as i feel implying it's because of a personality disorder takes away agency from the man who actually abused her and can be used as an excuse (much like my ex did). it's okay to think somebody's a shitty person, you dont have to involve a whole group of people with it
I have to admit, I'm struggling to see what's entirely wrong with what Gadd did to the actress who auditioned and didn't get the part. I'm sure part of my confusion is the limited amount of detail we get. But in my mind, it is actually possible that he genuinely wanted to date her, and also thought she'd be great for the part, but the powers that be didn't want her. *Potentially* nothing wrong with that, though it certainly isn't a great start. There's just not a lot in her description of exactly what happened that clearly points to any wrongdoing. Her recounting is written in a way that readers have to assume, based on how she frames everything, that he did do something wrong. But let's work under the assumption that there was wrongdoing on his part: I want to say this next part *extremely* carefully because, if someone isn't far enough along in their trauma healing journey, it's just not something that they're able to grapple with yet. Here's that tough to grapple with bit: she entertained him after she already broke things off, and then is upset at what happens when she re-engages with him. She disregarded her own boundary. There's an extent to which we have to take responsibility for the choices we make, even if they get us hurt. To put it more colloquially: If you put the quarter in the jukebox, you get to dance to the song. I dunno. Like I said, it's too difficult to really know what happened based on her description. But it's sad either way: either 1) he really did treat her badly and manipulated her into going on a date with him by pretending she stood a chance at the audition or 2) she's stretching the truth and then broadcasting it on Twitter for some reason.
Exactly and he ended up ending the relationship in the end and didn’t cast her so it just kind of sounds like a messy situationship. I don’t doubt that he might be a chaser, but other than that I don’t think he did much wrong, which she even acknowledges herself in that she doesn’t want to call herself a victim of him. As many people have said, there’s no reason to speculate publicly about his mental health which is just ableist and uninformed
In my opinion, it was inappropriate to ask her out at the same time that he made a professional offer. It's also possible that she thought dating him would improve her odds of getting the job, or that not dating him would ruin her chances. By making those offers together, he made it difficult to completely separate them. If someone is young and struggling to get their career off the ground, they might see dating him as their only chance to succeed.
The way she describes it is weird, though. The story only makes sense if she was incredibly naive or had no self-worth--why else would she agree to a relationship with someone she immediately suspected would treat her badly? But she describes as if she was completely self-aware at the time.
@uppercut147 I agree with you. His behavior was shitty, but she disregarded her own boundaries and let's be honest, she did that out of wanting to date someone with a Netflix show. At no point in her text I felt like she was truly interested in him. She was interested in the potential chances he represented to her. He had a creepy chaser behavior for sure, but she was digging for gold and was mad when said gold went away turning into a messy pit.
oh also ur hair stunning. a minute of silent appreciation for the fro pls yes
I took an older male neighbor to court. He was parking near my apartment door but we didn't have assigned spots. Every day he would sit outside my door leaning against his car. I got a dog because I started feeling unsafe, which made him mad and he told the landlord I was training my dog to attack him. He found out where I worked locally and started showing up to my job early in the morning before anyone else was there. But there is nothing you can do until they cross a line or you make so many calls to the police. Eventually is escalated to him coming into my job and standing just out of sight, behind me while I was ringing up customers. One day he started a fight with a customer and I was able to get him trespassed and get a peace order. Stalkers are never cute, fun or wanted. They live in a fantasy world with no shame and it's sad to see. I hope this person leaves you alone and finds someone else to obsess over. That's all they really want it to project a fantasy onto you.
Glad to see from the comments that I’m not the only one who found Reece’s tweet to be in bad taste
idk why this is surprising when he said he had problems with problematic thinking towards trans women in the show
Loved your take as always. It really was a fabulously written series, there's no denying that Gadd has a lot of talent, and he deserves support and care for the trauma he's experienced. At the same time, if your reclamation or healing process causes harm, well... our own pain doesn't absolve us of perpetuating it.
The constant stigmatization of cluster B personality disorders is so disparaging without discussing any overlap with PTSD, CPTSD or comorbidities it is so dissapointing.
As someone with a cluster B Diagnosis... There's aspects of that thread that were not okay, and I'm glad to see the comments here bringing them up.
It's genuinely irrelevant if he has a cluster B or not. Non of the behavior described is unique to cluster B disorders.
i can't wait for the follow up to this follow up, because the comments are so good. i'm pretty disappointed in a lot of the thread, it's pathological and unnecessary. i kinda can't believe kat didn't say anything about throwing diagonises around all flippantly.
I don’t know… this just feels like this woman let herself be talked into dating someone she is not interested in because she wanted the job (which we absolutely should blame him for, putting her in this situation), but then she rationalizes her unwillingness to proceed this relationship by diagnosing him with a personality disorder - instead of just accepting she doesn’t want him.
i'm sorry but this really felt like such a nothing thread lmao. i get that the situation must have been super uncomfortable and it very much wasn't smart or respectful of him to ask her out while she was auditioning, but her conclusion was literally "he wasn't abusive but he for sure has BPD and i have to speak out about that"... girl speak out about what, the fact that your therapist diagnosed him from afar and that you now interpret the entire ordeal through the lens of stigmatizing people with mental illnesses?? i understand that it must feel good to have words for your experience, and certain cluster B traits do overlap with harmful behavior, but that level of speculation on someone's mental health should be kept private. like i really don't get the point of making it such a big part of your "he was kinda weird to me and we should be more mindful about boundaries in the entertainment industry/casting process/whatever" thread (which is 100% true, but that's something you can say that without spending paragraphs on "woagh this reminds me of people being abused by those cluster B demons").
this video is irresponsible. it is part of why male victims are not believed and their experiences are minimized. calling him the common denominator, blaming his "cluster B personality type", and juxtaposing his experiences of physical and psychological abuse with a power offense that did not even take place is absurd. with this video you would have believed baby reindeer portrayed him as some kind of perfect victim. like is this "tea"? cause you're not coming to us with any new information. he was already shown to seek out trans women in the show. so, what is this video for if not to cast doubt to his experiences with zero evidence?
Bro, it'd be cool if you binged the entirety of Hilda. It's the Bluey of Netflix.
YES! Such a beautiful show!!
hilda is very cute. kind of reminds me of gravity falls too because of the kids-supernatural-adventure element too
Nothing he did sounds like bpd
11:39 so she implies he’s a creep for “running into her “ but then once she hears she could have a acting opportunity she stayed involved with him 🙄.
Also he talks about his treatment of his ex as problematic and touches into not understanding his sexuality etc.
It is normal when your point out someone’s prejudices or ignorant views for them to be offended at first .
This didn’t seem relevant for her to come out with imo . Like what’s the point of coming out a not so ideal relationship with an ex ( doesn’t even sound like he was an ex) when there wasn’t abuse or exploitation. It’s annoying that this has become normal . We all have shitty interactions and no one is perfect. He just sounds like he was an asshole . I sure we all have been at one point or another to a person or group . The important thing is if you realize that and act differently in the future.
I appreciate you for addressing the cycle of abuse
The Todd in the Shadows mention in the sponsor segment had me internally gasping like a victorian lady
Adding this here because youtube wont let me edit my comment: I was thinking of another guy 😭😭😭
Who were you thinking of that drew such a reaction lol??
@@mpeanut5066 that guy that got clowned on by the entire internet after trying to “expose” Wendigoon
If he hasn't said he has a personality disorder, it's messed up to insinuate he does.
I'm sorry to hear about this, but I hope it doesn't sour Baby Reindeer for anybody- Baby Reindeer is a tough but rewarding and marvellous watch; it's brilliant because it feels so true and real. If Mr Gadd was a perfect person at all times, to everybody, despite his experiences, and everyone said so, then that would be great. To Reece he has come off very badly, been socially awkward, appeared to fetishize her, without seeing her (which is horrible) and maybe he tried to make himself out as powerful, with this new Netflix thing happening, etc (although really, who KNEW? I doubt anyone had a clue Baby Reindeer would be huge like this) and I am sorry she had to experience that. But also it sounds kind of normal and not that bad to want to date someone you're attracted to and say they might be great in your new Netflix thing. So you date, but then they say 'I don't think this is a good idea, sorry' and you say 'come on, why not?' and they say 'alright then, I'll see you again'. And then it ends. I don't like the 'He's cluster B!' thing over TwitterX, I don't see how that helps anybody. I wish you would interview Richard Gadd, Kat. I would love to see that. Thank you for your content 💗
it’s so interesting how people feel the need to come publicly forward about so many private things nowadays. a relationship that went bad and *could’ve* been abusive, i don’t think the general public needs to know.
could have in the sense that if they had stayed together abuse might’ve occurred
and yeah, after finally skimming through the comments here.... It seems like nearly a thousand of us (at least 850 so far on one comment) are in agreement that it was disappointing how Kat didn't say ANYTHING at all about the inappropriate parts of Reese's statement
Reece’s post is weird, like he didn’t rlly do anything beside be weird and chaser-y so what’s the point of calling him out? It just seems like an excuse to diagnose him and hate on BPD tbh
It’s one of those things that could’ve been handled privately or been talked about without all the details that we didn’t really need to know
She should just comment on his actions and her experience and not speculate about his mental health- that's crazy harmful
So the email leaks today is a bit embarrassing for those sticking up for a stalker.
She’s giving me HEAVY minimizing vibes as to her own actions
5:38 YES we do also I love the northern English pronunciation of ‘c*nt’ 🤣
Not the person coming forward being lowkey victim blamey and ableist though
:( she could have talked abt the power dynamic and chaser vibes without doing alla that fr 😭
im really struggling to understand what him maybe having borderline personality disorder has to do with her experiences with him being sketchy. like.... my mother is a borderline and she's all up and down emotionally (she also has like 4 other mental health diagnosis), but that doesn't make her sketchy. the whole armchair psychologist thing feels so irrelevant to the story this woman is telling. like just say "i felt like he fetishised trans women and tried to abuse his power." he can do that without having a personality disorder, he can do that while having a personality disorder. whether or not he has one is not relevant to the main points of her story. we didn't need a post that detailed how she'd cracked the code and diagnosed him. it just feels in very poor taste and like she could really do with educating herself on mental health and personality disorders bc all she's done there is make herself look extremely ignorant.
and i find it weird how she said he was like a "common denominator" in his own show. like... yes... he's the main character? everything happens to him. and people who have been abused often get abused again bc abusers have like a spidey sense for emotional vulnerability. it feels lowkey (and by lowkey i mean highkey) like she was victim blaming him. like "he's the common denominator, what is he doing to have all these bad things happen to him?"
his behaviour towards her was wrong and he needed to be called out on it. but her behaviour towards him is also now wrong. the irony that baby reindeer is about how richard gadd is an imperfect victim and now she herself has become an imperfect victim irl is immaculate.
It's all a whole lot of victim blaming, a trans actress calling him a chaser and psycho analysing him as a cluster B personality as if a proper diagnosis could be done over a few text messages or a diagnosis of a condition could paint a whole picture of who someone is, saying he is a "common denominator" is classic victim blaming.
First of all victims don't need to be perfect to be validated and second of all this is gossip and hearsay, the fact you thought this ableist and victim blaming gossip of a disgruntled actress who's mad she lost a role could make for content makes me lose a lot of respect for you.
I hate the social double standards when it comes to male survivors, and as a neurodivergent, male survivor myself you are doing us all a huge disservice. I regret ever clicking on this video.
Yeah, not a fan of the victim blaming here....
16:02 this is EXACTLY how I feel as a "mixed" person in the dating scene. I don't identify that way, but some people NEED me to identify this way because the idea of being with a "mixed person" is more attractive than being with who I say I am.
Okay side note: now I’ve seen the interview with the real woman, the actor who played Martha deserves an Oscar! What a creepily accurate portrayal down to the mannerisms. Also haven’t watched too much of it yet but expect Piers Morgan to platform an abuser 🤣
Between Iris Timberlake, Sherry Pie, (allegedly) ImAllexx, and just a bunch of TikTokkers throwing the diagnosis and as someone with BPD, I have been having so much fun lately with people just throwing BPD around with the frivolous and nonchalant of a toddler in softball who would rather be playing in the mud.
This isn't directed towards you, not at all, ohmygod, just towards the people who think it's okay to diagnose others with a severe mental illness without actually being a psychiatrist all because they saw one TikTok with no sources cited and a subway surfer video underneath it.
Just exhausting lol
yikes...not even going to call out the ableism? i want to assume you're JUST uneducated yourself, but that just feels too nice. glad other people are highlighting their disappointment in you as well.
i developed bpd due to stalking trauma. personality disorders are similar to dissociative disorders in how they form to shield an adolescent from traumatic incidents. not that any of that NEEDs to be spoken about to appropriately talk about cluster b personality disorders. what is the most upsetting is that the "cluster b" thing is totally just thrown in there. HOW is he bpd? WHY would you bother to say that?
i assume the "cluster b spaces" the ex was talking about were personality abuse spaces. "personality disorder abuse" isn't real. you're experiencing emotional abuse and wanting to put a more quirky label on it and in turn harming those with personality disorders (which already have some diagnostic criteria worth criticising), AND everyone else empathy towards us. this is cruel. people with personality disorders don't deserve cruelty as much as every other being with a pulse, sentience, and whatnot. you don't call it "autistic abuse" if your abuser happens to be autistic.
i just wanna put this forward: what if baby reindeer was about sexual assault. what if someone used the "you're the common denominatior" then? that is so fucking gross to say to someone and ABOUT someone. it doesnt matter what kind of victim they are, you should NEVER say that about ANYTHING traumatic. victims are more likely to be revictimised too. i hate what society has come to, that we can STILL openly shame victims and blame them all while hiding it behind "criticism."
baby reindeer IS about assault inherently, everything that transpires is a result of the effects of sexual trauma which makes the show so powerful and the comment of 'common denominator' so cruel and harmful to others victims watching
I found her vagueness a bit off putting. Wtf does she mean by an "emotionally disregulated response"? Shes using therapy speak.
She keeps putting her contemporaneous thoughts in speach quotations as if she actually said these things to him.
If you're going to share your experiences with someone, share your experience. This felt like a really long vaguebook post to me.
I mean he could be a chaser but also it sounds like she had a brief aituationship with someone and is not diagnosing him with a personality disorder
1:59 Arcane! I love that show so much
Absolutely NO ONE has the right to judge you for how you describe your experience of being stalked. NO ONE.
Huh, I called my stalker, "my stalker" too. I think it's a pretty damn disparaging term. Haven't heard the rationale yet but it's wild that ppl push back on that?
Bringing up cluster B personality traits like that is not great. I’ve previously had a professor that also has her mental health practice, and she used to tell us that it’s very difficult for people with cluster B (especially BPD) to get a therapist to treat them, because the disorder made it hard for therapists to be around them. Alleging cluster B on someone is really serious and it should not be thrown out like this. This woman could have shed light on the situation without bringing up these traits that she is frankly not fit to speak out upon. People should get a degree and a license before ruining someone’s reputation like this. But of course-key words like npd and bpd get your story noticed.😅
You went a step too far, saying he's exhibiting the behaviour he experienced himself. This series recounts multiple incidences of sexual assault which is not at all whats described in this thread.
As a trans masc I can't help but keep nodding in agreement with the explanation of "chasers". I think my biggest issue with dealing with my own chasers has been the mild paranoid disposition when in early dating stages. A sense of "Are they into me the human being or infatuated with me the ideal?" or even "Do they want a partner for who they are or a societal pat on the back for being the one willing to date trans?". Yes there are many sincere people, but sadly the chaser crowds do exist and leave many of us a bit nervous approaching new romances. Not nervous enough to opt out of dating all together but definitely a bit more vigilant about red flags and pickier over who gets my time/energy/trust.