I just want to run keys. I'm a tank and I hate pugging with a passion. It's always the same idiots that complain and quit before the key is over. Finish the damn key.
I’m right there with you! I just want to run back to back keys. Worst part is that the ones that complain usually are the problem and they just move on to the next. Thanks for the comment!
I would love to run M+, but I have really bad memory issues and I fail at some of the fights. I can heal like mad. I just got AOTC in Nerub-ar. I could care less about wiping. It's part of the game. but pugs... if you die... they hate you. If you die twice they wish you would unalive yourself. It's that toxicity that prevents me from pugging M+, and likely what keeps me from doing the fights enough to get them stuck in my mind. I do good in raid because I do it weekly and it's the same bosses. But there are 8 dungeons, with 4-5 bosses each... and my memory just isn't always up to the task. I"m not talking trying to do +10 either...
Gratz on the AOTC! For sure wiping and figuring out things is a whole part of M+ that’s the challenge that makes it fun, but you are right people get too hostile to fast. Do you use DBM or anything like that to help with the mechanics?
@@tostgamingtv Yes, I use Bigwigs and Weak Auras. A lot of times though it is literally I've forgotten the fights. It's terrible.. LOL Getting old sucks, it has compounded the issue.
Good, without dbm and weakauras I wouldn’t be much haha. And hey, you still managed to get AOTC, so that’s great in itself. Raiding takes memory for sure.
I've played WoW for over 17yrs. We would not have pug'd M+ beyond 2-4 back in the day. It has always felt like a static team activity to me. there are key running communities you can search for in game and join to assemble players who play at the times you do at the levels your want to get to.
I'm playing with a static group and it's the best it's ever been for us, we're all having blast. We see none of the toxicity people are talking about. The affixes are infinitely better than they've ever been. The dungeons are mechanically hard but not bullshit hard like TotT was. I guess the death penalty is quite toxic on live but watching the MDI, it feels like it serves a purpose in this environment, giving a strategic choice between playing safe or taking risks. On the live ladder it just feels bad. And the graveyard mini-game sucks. Our group is around 625 but our healer, a new disc priest, is only 615 yet we're at the point where 11s are easy and 12s are very difficult. It's obvious to us that once our healer gets to 625 as well and the group figures out proper defensive and healing cd management we'll break the 12 wall and get to 14s quite fast but we have to do some progging first. Some bosses and trash packs become surprisingly more difficult in a 12. Thankfully, in a static group we finish the keys and get our practice done. There's many spots where you can't know you'll need a defensive or a different route for a 12 until you do it and get screwed by a certain mob or boss. For example, this weekend we did our first 12 CoT and figured out that last beetle mini-boss has a mechanic overlap where you get a slam during the dot on the third set. We couldn't know ahead of time because we'd always killed it fast enough to not get there so everybody but the tank died. Now we know and we'll also pull it before the mini that does the root so the defensives used comes back for the boss. As a tank I do feel like my mistakes are way more impactful though and it can be discouraging at times. If a dps makes a small mistake they'll do less damage; if I make a small mistake we're likely wiping, and melee dps is 99% sure to die too. If they make a big mistake they die; if I make a big mistake the key is bricked.
All I want out of M+ is keystone master. Worked my way up doing all the dungeons from 1-7. Before any dungeon I did, I watched a stankie gaming to know boss mechanics. Did this all as a fire mage. Got ksm in 4 weeks.
Nice! And I followed a similar path, worked up from low to high one step at a time. I’ll have to check out stankie gaming, don’t think I have seen any video from that channel.
Mythic plus is about as easy as it's ever been...it's just a LOT easier to pick out who isnt pulling their weight these days. Super easy to tell when personals arent used, super easy to count interrupts/stuns, avoidable damage is trackable...I'll leave a non 8 if 2 players are being so obviously carried that we won't time it by the first boss. If it's an 8, ill stick it through because those crests are still worth it. If people don't know how the dungeons are done by an 8...wtf are they doing there...This is not a mythic plus problem, it is a complacency of players problem, full stop.
Absolutely correct, at an 8 or higher the basic dungeon mechanics shouldn’t be taking players out. Then paired with the 15sec loss dungeons are lost much faster
I feel like 12s now are way harder than equivalent 22s were in DF though but I think you're right for low keys. Our 2700io group is easily 3-chesting the 8s with a 575 reroller in our group. Most pugs take an ungodly amount of avoidable dmg though.
Why do low keys when you can do the delves to get Heroic gear? I've got no interest in M+ this season, and it's been great not dealing with the toxic bros.
Delves lost my interest really quick for some reason and I hate that. Really fun for a short time. M+ has been unique this season for sure and the toxic is strong out there.
Im a tank main and the real issue is that as a dps player when ias a tank que up a key ill get 20+ dps que up all at once. Tank and healer just arnt a desirable role at times. Im at 2400 something io as a 511.
M+ was a mistake. It brought WOW into e-sports. But a game that is focussed on E-sports cannot be fun for the +mass+ of players who just want to relax and play without a timers e.g. Hopefully we will see stuff like Delves even more :) The toxic mentality is just poison for any MMO and the reason why we have not enough tanks+healers. (and the fact that groups in WOW are just too small!)
I won’t lie, I do enjoy the esport aspect of the game (watching it and all that). The community does really beat down anyone new trying to become a tank/healer.
My frustration comes from 2+ days of looking for a group to M+ and it on average took 45minutes to find a key. Then after all that waiting it gets bricked by higher IO people not doing mechanics or anywhere close to the damage they should be.
@@tostgamingtv Thanks but for me it's not a skill issue. I can go higher but as you said it's tiring to be in the queue all day and finally get invited in a key and it's bricked by tank/healer in 5 minutes. Then do it again 2 hours in queue for 5 minutes okay time.. If I had a team and we were playing for 3-4 hours every other day I would most definitely completed all dungeons to 14.
That’s the dream right there, having a core group to be steady running keys! The key waiting is the most brutal. Having a regular group allows for better progression because of the coordination and all else required in higher keys.
I do have a guild (friends), but only a small handful of us want to push keys and they end up taking a break after they beat heroic raid. So that leaves me around to PUG for my IO.
My thought is if I get 2500 or 3k I’ll cross over to an amazing world with good players that try. But the struggle will continue, thanks for the comment!
That’s the plan, just trying to enjoy stuff. I have been taking breaks and just doing the 20th anniversary stuff so I can get the sets and what not. It gives the brain a break.
stop yapping you are outgearing 10s by now and still unable to time them. All I'm hearing is "randoms this random that" when i bet there is so much more you can improve, looking at your raid logs
You’re right about the gear part and can’t time them because the trust in 4 randoms has been a struggle these days (you try a pug lately?). And hey I’m always open to suggestions to get better, gotta strive to be the best! Thanks for the comment!
I just want to run keys. I'm a tank and I hate pugging with a passion. It's always the same idiots that complain and quit before the key is over. Finish the damn key.
I’m right there with you! I just want to run back to back keys. Worst part is that the ones that complain usually are the problem and they just move on to the next. Thanks for the comment!
I would love to run M+, but I have really bad memory issues and I fail at some of the fights. I can heal like mad. I just got AOTC in Nerub-ar.
I could care less about wiping. It's part of the game. but pugs... if you die... they hate you. If you die twice they wish you would unalive yourself.
It's that toxicity that prevents me from pugging M+, and likely what keeps me from doing the fights enough to get them stuck in my mind. I do good in raid because I do it weekly and it's the same bosses. But there are 8 dungeons, with 4-5 bosses each... and my memory just isn't always up to the task.
I"m not talking trying to do +10 either...
Gratz on the AOTC! For sure wiping and figuring out things is a whole part of M+ that’s the challenge that makes it fun, but you are right people get too hostile to fast. Do you use DBM or anything like that to help with the mechanics?
@@tostgamingtv Yes, I use Bigwigs and Weak Auras.
A lot of times though it is literally I've forgotten the fights. It's terrible.. LOL Getting old sucks, it has compounded the issue.
Good, without dbm and weakauras I wouldn’t be much haha. And hey, you still managed to get AOTC, so that’s great in itself. Raiding takes memory for sure.
I've played WoW for over 17yrs. We would not have pug'd M+ beyond 2-4 back in the day. It has always felt like a static team activity to me. there are key running communities you can search for in game and join to assemble players who play at the times you do at the levels your want to get to.
I'm playing with a static group and it's the best it's ever been for us, we're all having blast. We see none of the toxicity people are talking about. The affixes are infinitely better than they've ever been. The dungeons are mechanically hard but not bullshit hard like TotT was. I guess the death penalty is quite toxic on live but watching the MDI, it feels like it serves a purpose in this environment, giving a strategic choice between playing safe or taking risks. On the live ladder it just feels bad. And the graveyard mini-game sucks.
Our group is around 625 but our healer, a new disc priest, is only 615 yet we're at the point where 11s are easy and 12s are very difficult. It's obvious to us that once our healer gets to 625 as well and the group figures out proper defensive and healing cd management we'll break the 12 wall and get to 14s quite fast but we have to do some progging first. Some bosses and trash packs become surprisingly more difficult in a 12. Thankfully, in a static group we finish the keys and get our practice done.
There's many spots where you can't know you'll need a defensive or a different route for a 12 until you do it and get screwed by a certain mob or boss. For example, this weekend we did our first 12 CoT and figured out that last beetle mini-boss has a mechanic overlap where you get a slam during the dot on the third set. We couldn't know ahead of time because we'd always killed it fast enough to not get there so everybody but the tank died. Now we know and we'll also pull it before the mini that does the root so the defensives used comes back for the boss.
As a tank I do feel like my mistakes are way more impactful though and it can be discouraging at times. If a dps makes a small mistake they'll do less damage; if I make a small mistake we're likely wiping, and melee dps is 99% sure to die too. If they make a big mistake they die; if I make a big mistake the key is bricked.
All I want out of M+ is keystone master. Worked my way up doing all the dungeons from 1-7. Before any dungeon I did, I watched a stankie gaming to know boss mechanics. Did this all as a fire mage. Got ksm in 4 weeks.
Nice! And I followed a similar path, worked up from low to high one step at a time. I’ll have to check out stankie gaming, don’t think I have seen any video from that channel.
Surv is doing crazy damage right now if run by a competent player, so do keep that in mind.
They are doing some numbers for sure! It takes me back to the end of Shadowlands days.
Mythic plus is about as easy as it's ever been...it's just a LOT easier to pick out who isnt pulling their weight these days. Super easy to tell when personals arent used, super easy to count interrupts/stuns, avoidable damage is trackable...I'll leave a non 8 if 2 players are being so obviously carried that we won't time it by the first boss. If it's an 8, ill stick it through because those crests are still worth it.
If people don't know how the dungeons are done by an 8...wtf are they doing there...This is not a mythic plus problem, it is a complacency of players problem, full stop.
Absolutely correct, at an 8 or higher the basic dungeon mechanics shouldn’t be taking players out. Then paired with the 15sec loss dungeons are lost much faster
I feel like 12s now are way harder than equivalent 22s were in DF though but I think you're right for low keys. Our 2700io group is easily 3-chesting the 8s with a 575 reroller in our group. Most pugs take an ungodly amount of avoidable dmg though.
Definitely makes sense to start with the lower keys and work your way up!
That’s the one thing I wish people would do and I have done! Practice makes perfect from what I hear. Thanks for the comment
Why do low keys when you can do the delves to get Heroic gear? I've got no interest in M+ this season, and it's been great not dealing with the toxic bros.
Delves lost my interest really quick for some reason and I hate that. Really fun for a short time. M+ has been unique this season for sure and the toxic is strong out there.
Im a tank main and the real issue is that as a dps player when ias a tank que up a key ill get 20+ dps que up all at once. Tank and healer just arnt a desirable role at times. Im at 2400 something io as a 511.
And I try so hard to get in there as fast as possible to be on the top of the list. If I could I would scream “pick me” hand up and all
M+ was a mistake.
It brought WOW into e-sports.
But a game that is focussed on E-sports cannot be fun for the +mass+ of players who just want to relax and play without a timers e.g.
Hopefully we will see stuff like Delves even more :)
The toxic mentality is just poison for any MMO and the reason why we have not enough tanks+healers. (and the fact that groups in WOW are just too small!)
I won’t lie, I do enjoy the esport aspect of the game (watching it and all that). The community does really beat down anyone new trying to become a tank/healer.
M+ saved the game. You don't enjoy M+, don't engage with it. It's what 99% of players do with pvp.
Theres like 3 times the keys being done than DF wdym?
It's the big reaction fad to rag on the state of gaming and a bunch of no name content creators are trying to capitalize.
My frustration comes from 2+ days of looking for a group to M+ and it on average took 45minutes to find a key. Then after all that waiting it gets bricked by higher IO people not doing mechanics or anywhere close to the damage they should be.
Even if you play meta class you are not getting invited. They only way as an enha shaman to do keys if I queue to -300io players and I am 3k io.
At least you got a 3k, congrats on that! But I 100% agree, I feel I want to run 5s so I can at least run something. Thanks for the comment
@@tostgamingtv Thanks but for me it's not a skill issue. I can go higher but as you said it's tiring to be in the queue all day and finally get invited in a key and it's bricked by tank/healer in 5 minutes. Then do it again 2 hours in queue for 5 minutes okay time.. If I had a team and we were playing for 3-4 hours every other day I would most definitely completed all dungeons to 14.
That’s the dream right there, having a core group to be steady running keys! The key waiting is the most brutal. Having a regular group allows for better progression because of the coordination and all else required in higher keys.
@@tostgamingtv Guild?
I do have a guild (friends), but only a small handful of us want to push keys and they end up taking a break after they beat heroic raid. So that leaves me around to PUG for my IO.
This is definitely the low io experience.
My thought is if I get 2500 or 3k I’ll cross over to an amazing world with good players that try. But the struggle will continue, thanks for the comment!
@ by the time you’re 2800 or so you stop caring and just enjoy stuff.
That’s the plan, just trying to enjoy stuff. I have been taking breaks and just doing the 20th anniversary stuff so I can get the sets and what not. It gives the brain a break.
stop yapping you are outgearing 10s by now and still unable to time them.
All I'm hearing is "randoms this random that" when i bet there is so much more you can improve, looking at your raid logs
You’re right about the gear part and can’t time them because the trust in 4 randoms has been a struggle these days (you try a pug lately?). And hey I’m always open to suggestions to get better, gotta strive to be the best! Thanks for the comment!