Confession and Absolution (Augsburg Confession XI and XII)
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This video is part of our series on the Augsburg Confession. I discuss confession, absolution, and repentance.
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The communal confession in each service was a large part of what drew me into Lutheranism, it’s beautiful and tells the whole gospel story while assuring us that we are indeed partakers of that gospel.
Heretical prayer: O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee.
In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased.
But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help.
This is a legit Roman Catholic prayer, look up "O Mother of Perpetual Help" if you want to know if it’s legit.
This is super heretical. This doctrine of invoking departed saints doesn’t seem just like "hey it’s like praying to a friend.".
.
.
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.
-Acts 3:19
.
I love Lutheranism because whatever subject you're dealing with, you can speak both the Law and the Gospel
Old Roman system of Penance was replaced with "bearing fruit in keeping with repentance." (00:50:20) The good works aren't equivalent to the repentance; rather, the good works are the fruit of repentance.
I love this! I feel like this was hiding in plain sight; I've never seen that passage of Scripture that way but it makes so much sense. Keeps us from tumbling into self-condemnation while also reminding us not to take grace for license. But it is a gentler, less exacting, less legalistic way of viewing both Repentance and "the good works that refine and strengthen faith."
I've been Lutheran my whole life and enjoyed this video very much. Thanks Pastor.
Heretical prayer: O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee.
In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased.
But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help.
This is a legit Roman Catholic prayer, look up "O Mother of Perpetual Help" if you want to know if it’s legit.
This is super heretical. This doctrine of invoking departed saints doesn’t seem just like "hey it’s like praying to a friend.".
.
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.
-Acts 3:19
.
I love these videos on the Augsburg Confession. In fact, I bought the book of Concord as I am so interested in confessional Lutheranism thanks to this channel!
Loved the video Dr. Cooper and I've learned a lot from you. I know a number of young Reformed men and Pastors who are hungry for a higher sacramentology as well as a higher catholic liturgy and theology. Many are of the opinion that both private and corporate confession of sin is a good practice for the body of Christ.
Brother, thank you for articulating the Lutheran position on confession. It clarifies for me why I've heard it said to be both a third sacrament and not. It also makes me appreciate Luther's teaching and Lutherism as a kind of middle way between Catholic and Reformed traditions, in so many ways hitting the right notes. It is my hope that there will be a revival of Lutheranism to rival what we are seeing from the neo-Calvinist camp, MacArthur, Baucham, Washer, even Doug Wilson, who I like, but find all of them wrongheaded.
wrong•head•ed
Characterized by or due to perversity of the judgment; obstinately opinionated; misguided; stubborn.
adj.
Wrong in opinion or principle; having a perverse understanding; perverse.
adj.
having an obstinately perverse opinion or judgement
I was once calvinist myself
@@prayunceasingly2029 LOL. I though "wrongheaded" sounded mild, but yes, those things exactly.
Though the Reformation played out in ways that neither Luther nor Calvin could have envisioned or intended, the end result was pretty much a win for Calvinism except for German speaking lands and Scandinavia.
Once Knox brought Geneva to Scotland, the Calvinist version goes down into England, eventually leading to Civil War.
Everything, everywhere becomes tied up with politics and even war, sometimes by necessity as in Holland, where the Spanish brutally dealt with the Protestants by slaughter and demanded a reprisal. In France the Catholic "ligue" and the Huguenots killed each other with pretty even odds for death, until the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre when the Catholics got the upper hand. Marie de Medici is often blamed, but she had worked tirelessly for rapprochement between the two factions, and supported the wedding of Marguerite of Valois (Catholic) to Henry of Navarre (future king who was raised Huguenot by his mother Jeanne d'Albret). In fact, the division was both religious and dynastic, house of Valois vs house of Navarre. The Massacre occurred shortly after the wedding.
It was family feud. The Reformation was a family feud.
It's time to work toward unity in the basics of the Christian faith. That is my position. I can't see any other reasonable one.
(disclaimer: The above comment is a gross oversimplification of the history of the Reformation, but I think touches on the fanaticism and politics that still plague us today.)
(Before watching this) I suspect that as an Anglican I will learn much from this. As a convert from Rome I have often heard the criticism that general confessions don't work because the priest cannot decide which sins to bind or loose unless they are heard individually.
true, the priest also needs to know when was the last date (a week, a month, a year, etc.) of confession, this gives the priest an idea of how person lives his spiritual life.
Keep doing these. And when you are done, do rest of the Book of Concord! (A small task, I'm sure.)
That's the plan.
Gotta love that confession and absolution!
Thanks for the video Dr. Cooper. I watch the whole video and really enjoyed it. Curious though, what sins would a Lutheran priest not forgive? For example you spoke of binding and loosening in regard to sins. But I did not hear an example of sins that would be bound.
I think he mentioned unrepentant sin
I have been concerned about corporate Absolution since it caught my attention that other Christian communions, past and present, don't seem to have it. In fact, I got the notion that early Lutherans advocated a stricter discipline of private confession before taking the Lord's Supper than we seem to keep today: "for it is not usual to give the body of the Lord, except to them that have been previously examined and absolved." (Augsburg Confession, Article 25). "However, if you want to despise it and proudly continue without Confession, then we must draw the conclusion that you are no Christian and should not enjoy the Sacrament either." (Luther's Exhortation to Confession).
Question- are our sins only absolved/forgiven in church by the pastor through general or private confession? Or, does God forgive sins through our direct, daily confessing to him personally in prayer?
I’d love an answer on this
Ordained priest in the line of succession of Peter can do the sacrament of confession. (Holy Orders)
No other man or even an angel can consecrate a sacrament.
On the question of "sacrament"... What do you make of the more loose definition of _the outward visible sign of inward spiritual grace_ (and 'grace' being defined more broadly as well to mean the moving or working of the Spirit.. rather than forgiveness per se)...?
I've found that the narrow definition is certainly helpful for the Reformation era polemics. Yet outside of that context (one Lutherans have trouble escaping) it does tend towards reductionism that can harm our expression of a richer and more comprehensive understanding of the sacramental life.
Morning 🌞☕ Ego te absolvo e peccatis tuis☦️
Heretical prayer: O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee.
In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased.
But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help.
This is a legit Roman Catholic prayer, look up "O Mother of Perpetual Help" if you want to know if it’s legit.
This is super heretical. This doctrine of invoking departed saints doesn’t seem just like "hey it’s like praying to a friend.".
.
.
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.
-Acts 3:19
:)
Oddly enough, there's a small Pentecostal sect that's Novatian in its understanding of sin after baptism
Not surprising to me. These old heresies don't really die. They just go underground for a time.
Commentary on the Epistle
to the Galatians
(1535)
by Martin Luther
Translated by Theodore Graebner
(Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1949)
Chapter 5, pp. 194-216
VERSE 6. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Paul concludes the whole matter with the above statement. "You want to be justified by the Law, by circumcision, and by works. We cannot see it. To be justified by such means would make Christ of no value to us. We would be obliged to perform the whole law. We rather through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness." The Apostle is not satisfied to say "justified by faith." He adds hope to faith.
Holy Writ speaks of hope in two ways: as the object of the emotion, and hope as the emotion itself. In the first chapter of the Epistle to the Colossians we have an instance of its first use: "For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven," i.e., the thing hoped for. In the sense of emotion we quote the passage from the eighth chapter of the Epistle to the Romans: "For we are saved by hope." As Paul uses the term "hope" here in writing to the Galatians, we may take it in either of its two meanings. We may understand Paul to say, "We wait in spirit, through faith, for the righteousness that we hope for, which in due time will be revealed to us." Or we may understand Paul to say: "We wait in Spirit, by faith for righteousness with great hope and desire." True, we are righteous, but our righteousness is not yet revealed; as long as we live here sin stays with us, not to forget the law in our members striving against the law of our mind. When sin rages in our body and we through the Spirit wrestle against it, then we have cause for hope. We are not yet perfectly righteous. Perfect righteousness is still to be attained. Hence we hope for it.
This is sweet comfort for us. And we are to make use of it in comforting the afflicted. We are to say to them: "Brother, you would like to feel God's favor as you feel your sin. But you are asking too much. Your righteousness rests on something much better than feelings. Wait and hope until it will be revealed to you in the Lord's own time. Don't go by your feelings, but go by the doctrine of faith, which pledges Christ to you."
The question occurs to us, What difference is there between faith and hope? We find it difficult to see any difference. Faith and hope are so closely linked that they cannot be separated. Still there is a difference between them.
First, hope and faith differ in regard to their sources. Faith originates in the understanding, while hope rises in the will.
Secondly, they differ in regard to their functions. Faith says what is to be done. Faith teaches, describes, directs. Hope exhorts the mind to be strong and courageous.
Thirdly, they differ in regard to their objectives. Faith concentrates on the truth. Hope looks to the goodness of God.
Fourthly, they differ in sequence. Faith is the beginning of life before tribulation. (Hebrews 11.) Hope comes later and is born of tribulation. (Romans 5.)
Fifthly, they differ in regard to their effects. Faith is a judge. It judges errors. Hope is a soldier. It fights against tribulations, the Cross, despondency, despair, and waits for better things to come in the midst of evil.
Without hope faith cannot endure. On the other hand, hope without faith is blind rashness and arrogance because it lacks knowledge. Before anything else a Christian must have the insight of faith, so that the intellect may know its directions in the day of trouble and the heart may hope for better things. By faith we begin, by hope we continue.
This passage contains excellent doctrine and much comfort. It declares that we are justified not by works, sacrifices, or ceremonies, but by Christ alone. The world may judge certain things to be ever so good; without Christ they are all wrong. Circumcision and the law and good works are carnal. "We," says Paul, "are above such things. We possess Christ by faith and in the midst of our afflictions we hopefully wait for the consummation of our righteousness."
You may say, "The trouble is I don't feel as if I am righteous." You must not feel, but believe. Unless you believe that you are righteous, you do Christ a great wrong, for He has cleansed you by the washing of regeneration, He died for you so that through Him you may obtain righteousness and everlasting life.
VERSE 6. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love.
Faith must of course be sincere. It must be a faith that performs good works through love. If faith lacks love it is not true faith. Thus the Apostle bars the way of hypocrites to the kingdom of Christ on all sides. He declares on the one hand, "In Christ Jesus circumcision availeth nothing," i.e., works avail nothing, but faith alone, and that without any merit whatever, avails before God. On the other hand, the Apostle declares that without fruits faith serves no purpose. To think, "If faith justifies without works, let us work nothing," is to despise the grace of God. Idle faith is not justifying faith. In this terse manner Paul presents the whole life of a Christian. Inwardly it consists in faith towards God, outwardly in love towards our fellow-men.
Is it right for the Lutheran church to have an open communion to all? Or should confirmation be done beforehand?
@VDMA LCMS
I went to a Lutheran church that had open communion. I never did confirmation.
@VDMA LCMS
I wish they had a closed communion, i think it's better.
@VDMA LCMS
I like your channel logo
@VDMA LCMS
I am also subscribed to redeemer Lutheran, you too I see
Huh. Did you skip the article on repentance?
Here: th-cam.com/video/crd5T_YCYaQ/w-d-xo.html
A sin, which is not forgiven at a certain point in time, but is forgiven at a later point? Can't be correct. God is timeless.
Luther on John 15,3: Not clean and yet clean!
Posted on May 4, 2020 by Wilhelm Weber
Our Lord Jesus Christ says: “You are already made clean by the Word which I have spoken to you.” Dr. Martin Luther comments this vers - and here´s some of that audible in German - readings of John 15,3 in “Luthers Evangelien-Auslegung 4.Teil.” ed. Eduard Ellwein. Vandenhoek: Göttingen, 1954. Pg.444-445: Teil 1 und Teil 2.
This is a peculiar cleansing. What Christ says here seems to contradict His previous words, which deal with suffering and the cross. It sounds like a thought just thrown in. Yet with these words Christ offers us a fine preservative or remedy against the poison called presumption or overestimation of one’s own holiness, lest anyone think that through suffering he obtains forgiveness of sins and becomes a branch in the sight of God without Christ. For this is the natural sequence: After a person has performed many good works or has suffered much and is aware of the fruit he bears-by an extraordinary achievement in preaching or in some other way-then that sweet poison always stealthily injects itself to make him think: “Well, after all, I have accomplished something which God will approve of and in view of which He will show me mercy.” Thus nature always sprouts such secondary or wild branches as want to grow along with the true branches, deprive these of their sap and strength, and stunt their growth. Therefore the Vinedresser must be alert here at all times and restrain such a false notion and such presumption by a constant application of the Word.
For this reason Christ now says: “You are not clean by virtue of your deeds, your suffering, and your fruit; for you would not have borne this fruit if you had not previously been pruned and become good and true branches. The cleansing process must be carried out through the Word, which must be present at all times and must cleanse you both before and after. But in order that it may have power in you, be surely apprehended and firmly retained by you, the Father sends you many kinds of suffering, peril, anxiety, distress, and affliction, to humble you and to teach you that the cleanness does not proceed from you and is not of your own doing. Therefore your suffering is not the cleanness itself, and you are not declared clean in the sight of God because of it. But it does serve to drive man to grasp and hold the Word with a better and firmer grip, in order that in this way faith may become active. The Word is itself the purification of the heart if the heart adheres to it and remains faithful to it.
Christ states clearly: “You are already made clean by the Word which I have spoken to you” (John 15:3). This is nothing else than Christ’s entire sermon: He was sent into the world by the Father to redeem us from our sin by His suffering and death, and to reconcile us to the Father, that all who believe in Him might not be damned and lost but have remission of sin and eternal life for His sake. This Word makes man clean when the heart takes hold of it in faith; that is, it brings forgiveness of sin and makes man acceptable to God. On account of this faith, by which alone the Word is received and apprehended, we who adhere to it are accounted completely pure and holy before God, even though we-because of our nature and our life-are not clean enough but during our sojourn on earth are always infected with sin, weakness, and shortcomings, which must still be purged.
Thus Christ teaches the real core of Christian doctrine with these words; He shows how and by what means man is purified and justified before God. These words teach that the cleansing from sin which is valid before God should not be attributed to our deeds or suffering, even though these are performed by and happen to Christians and are now termed true, good, and pure fruits. For here Christ is referring to His beloved apostles, who were now believers, or Christians. He says: “You are already made clean” (John 15:3), yet not by reason of their good fruits but “by the Word which I have spoken to you.” How does this take place? How can they be unclean and clean at the same time? If they are clean, why does Christ say that they must constantly be made clean? Or why do they pray in the Lord’s Prayer “Forgive us our trespasses,” and “Thy will be done,” thereby confessing, of course, that they are still sinful and unclean? For he who asks for forgiveness of sin and deplores that God’s will has not been done cannot be called clean. On the other hand, if they are unclean and must still be cleaned, how, then, can Christ call them clean? How do you reconcile this?
Answer: As I have said, man is first declared clean by God’s Word for Christ’s sake, in whom he believes. For by such faith in the Word he is grafted into the Vine that is Christ and is clothed in His purity, which is imputed to him as his own and is as perfect and complete in him as it is in Christ. All this happens through the Word, if it is received and accepted in faith. There I hear God’s will and promise that He will forgive my sins for Christ’s sake and will adjudge and regard me as clean. And when I lay hold of the Word by faith, it creates in me-through the Holy Spirit, who works through it-a new heart and new thoughts, which adhere to it firmly and do not doubt but live and die by it. Because I cleave to it, for this reason whatever impurities and sins still cling to me are not imputed to me; but this weak, imperfect, and inchoate purity is reckoned as wholly perfect purity. God makes the sign of the cross over it and acknowledges it, and He closes an eye to the uncleanness that still remains in me. And where such cleanness comes into being through the Word in faith, God proceeds to improve and perfect it by cross and suffering, so that faith is increased and the remaining uncleanness and sin are daily diminished and purged until death. That is what Christ means when He speaks, as He does above, of constantly pruning and cleaning the branches on the vine that are now clean by the Word.
Behold, thus Christ shows clearly that the cleanness of Christians does not come from the fruit they bear but that, conversely, their fruit and works spring from the cleanness which they already have from the Word, by which the heart is cleansed. That is what St. Peter states in Acts 15:9. Though the fruit grows from this cleanness, it itself is not the cleanness; but it is accounted clean and good and pleasing to God for the sake of faith. This is the Christian doctrine of true purity, which is so incomprehensible to any non-Christian, papist, or schismatic spirit, who is unable to reconcile the two facts that a Christian is clean and unclean at the same time. They are ignorant of the power of Christ and of His Word, of how we are declared wholly clean for His sake through the Word, as clean as He Himself is, although in ourselves we still are, and always will be, impure because of our sinful nature. The devil will never find a flaw in the Word or prove it false; nor will he succeed in making Christ unclean. And since the Word is right and true, and since Christ remains pure, we will also be and remain pure and holy in Him. And no one will ever make us unclean or sinners. At the same time such cleansing will also bear good fruit in us, as Christ has stated (v. 2).
I have wondered why Luther's personal issues with scrupulosity should alter the church's theology on confession.
@Christos Kyrios there is a vast difference between being aware of one’s sins and scrupulousness.
@Christos Kyrios The person should be upset if he or she is told that. The person should be upset with the priest because he is not being accurate with the requirements for confession and absolution. The requirement is to confess those mortal sins committed since the last confession which the penitent has committed in number and kind. Further, absolution covers even those mortal sins which were genuinely forgotten. But there is no requirement that one confess already confessed and absolved sins. Because they have been absolved, confessing them again would be pointless.
@Christos Kyrios No. From the Council of Trent, session 14, ch. 5. “From which it is clear that all mortal sins of which they have knowledge after a diligent self-examination, must be enumerated by the penitents in confession, . .” The Baltimore Catechism makes it clear that we are to confess those unforgiven mortal sins: 411. Is it necessary to confess every sin?
It is necessary to confess every mortal sin which has not yet been confessed and forgiven; it is not necessary to confess our venial sins, but it is better to do so.” Absolution granted after a confession of all remembered mortal sins is effective: “416. What are we to do if without our fault we forget to confess a mortal sin?
If without our fault we forget to confess a mortal sin, we may receive Holy Communion, because we have made a good confession and the sin is forgiven; but we must tell the sin in confession if it again comes to our mind.”
From where do you get the understanding that one must confess already confessed and absolved sins?
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.
-Acts 3:19
:)
Heretical prayer: O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee.
In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased.
But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help.
This is a legit Roman Catholic prayer, look up "O Mother of Perpetual Help" if you want to know if it’s legit.
This is super heretical. This doctrine of invoking departed saints doesn’t seem just like "hey it’s like praying to a friend.".
.
:)
You have not demonstrated that thesis I of the 95 Theses is biblical. The prophets don't sound like turning is trying and failing all the time.
Mortal sins would include.
Missing mass. Intentionally
Sexual Sins. Etc
Of course murder. Stealing etc
Venial could be. Gossip , swearing etc.
Also if you forget to confess a sin in Catholicism you are still absolved and you should just confess it the next time you make your confession. If you are unable to go to confession for a valid reason a perfect act of contrition also absolves you of your sin again you should confess it at your next opportunity. If the need arises (for example before a battle) the church also does do general confession. Luther suffered from ultra scrupulousness, something that is not taught by the church. Confession is a gift given to the church not some device created to destroy the soul.
@Christos Kyrios I’m, I think you read the documents of the church while expecting the worst. The church has never expected tou to remember every mortal sin. What is expected is conversion of the heart.
@@ChristopherWentling In Catholicism, if you confess a horrible sin like murder or rape the priest would still be required to keep quiet about it?
@@randomango2789 yes
@@ChristopherWentling What kind of penance would he give to those people?
There is only one mediator, Jesus Christ. Only He can forgive sins. You cannot be their mediator. Absolution is a very blasphemous heresy.
You just called John 20:22-23 heresy. You are a blasphemous heretic.
@@Mygoalwogel John 20:22-23: The Greek tense is very specific, the Apostles are pronouncing what has already been done in heaven, man CANNOT forgive sins! Jesus is the only mediator! Your Lutheran pastor has no authority to forgive your sins on behalf of Christ and it is a blasphemous heresy.
Acts 2:38: you must harmonize this with the rest of Scripture like John 5:24, Ephesians 2:8-9, and Romans 4-5.
Romans 6:3-4, it's interesting that you skip straight to this verse and skip how the Apostle Paul says we are justified by faith alone apart from any ceremony in Romans 4, including water baptism. Romans 6 is using a simile, it has nothing to do with us being declared righteous by God by being dunked in water, that is also a blasphemous heresy that nullifies and calls the finished work of Christ "unfinished."
@@changedman6035
I’ve read the 1939 article by JR Mantey that invented your thesis. The argument has no substance. Even if nearly all modern English Bibles somehow mistranslate “apheontai”
1. This was never a problem that occurred to ancient pastors who only used the original Koine. Chrysostom, for example. You and Mantey do not know more Koine than Chrysostom.
2. Aphete remains subjunctive. “If you *should/may forgive* any sins they have been forgiven.” Is that translation good enough for you? It doesn’t present a problem for Churches that retain Christ’s gift of absolution because…
3. Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran, and Anglican churches all agree that God forgave the sins of the saved from the foundation of the world even as Christ is the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world. Just as Christ was also slain in time, so Christians are also forgiven in time.
Mantey and 20th-21st century liberal christians are simply inventing ways to avoid the agonizingly obvious. This is what heretics have always done.
@@Mygoalwogel When did I mention an article by JR Mantey? I don't even know who that is. You cannot escape the obvious objection that I sent, I will send the direct verse below:
“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,”
1 Timothy 2:5
You're must go directly to Christ, I repeat, your Lutheran pastor has no authority to forgive your sins, it shows that you don't want to bring your sins to God. You don't care how God feels about your sins, if you did you would go directly to Him. I will not listen to your failed attempts to butcher the Koine Greek grammar, it means that the Apostles declared what had already been decided in heaven. Jordan Cooper is a wolf in sheep's clothing who is tickling your ears and will drag you to hell with him if you let him. The wrath of God abides upon you both.
@@changedman6035 I didn't suggest you've read him. I'm saying he seems to be the guy who invented your heretical notion. I addressed every intelligent point you've made above, unless you wish to clarify something.
If you don't know how absolution fits perfectly with all the scriptures you fling around, you should do more reading.