I simply want to say "thank you." I am 74 and a life-long shooter. I am also a retired teacher, and you Sir, are an EXCELLENT teacher. It is this type of common sense, practical information that helps all of us.
I bought all of my Stillers when Stiller was still in business. TAC300s and Predators. They work just as well as any other in my experience. If I recall correctly, Horizon Firearms now owns it. I have two 280AI builds and just received a stainless Rem 700 25-06 already in a McMillan stock that I'm converting to a 280AI.
Tim, not sure your order of shooting but I have personally found, as have others, that the CX bullet likes to be shot from a clean barrel. I did an 8 shot string in .3 increments and the group size was about 1.25”. Picked a load to try and shot it after my 143 ELD-X factory from my 6.5 PRC and the group size was 1.75”. Next time out w the same CX load but again a clean barrel and it went into .9”. Found the same thing shooting copper out of my 6.5 CM when it was in the middle of other lead based bullets. Once clean, it shot great. As the first load out of the clean barrel. Another excellent class.
Awesome thanks for all your hard work in the reloading and filming for us all to watch. i am super grateful for letting me know about Gordons reloading tool, that has saved me a bunch of head scratching and money. i am reloading for a 9.3x62 and a 358 norma mag. the 9.3x62 factory ammo is loaded to a pretty low, and the 358 norma mag cant even find factory ammo. hopping to get a load ready for the hunting season. keep up all the great work
I'm interested in trying your load development method, I just recently assembled a 280AI for hunting purposes that weighed in at 8lbs with my scope installed. I had already chose the Hornady CX 160g for my bullet and was thinking H4350 but with your load development I might try another powder or two. Thanks for the great series.
Thank you for this series. Your ladder testing with multiple powders was great. Specifically looking for common velocities for your Sweet Spots. BTW my 280 AI is a Remington Action with a 1/8 26” Proof barrel. I use a McGuire 160 copper rose and 58.5g RL23. 3080fps.
I am happy with the handloads I've re-verified in my 280AI with a 24" Bartlein 5 groove #3 contour - 139 Barnes LRX over Superformance at 3300fps. I'll use it out to 400 or 450 yards. Still haven't made time to do any further testing in my Brux barreled 280AI. I plan to take a 2x fired Norma case, neck it down to accept a .277 bullet, seat a 150 ABLR to make a dummy round and send it off to JGS for a reamer - 270 O'Connor. I spoke with a builder who is very familiar with it and he stated to me he averages 3200fps with a 130 mono but doesn't like to run cartridges hard and gets long brass life. I tend to run them as hot as they will go accurately and just buy more brass. Maybe I should rethink what I'm thinking.
I shoot round robin and reverse round robin every time I shoot, whether it's working on OCW for one rifle, one bullet, one powder, or testing multiple factory ammo in a rifle or even when I get to a step where I've settled on a bullet but comparing different powders. Also, in one of my 7PRCs the LRT is the best powder so far in it with 170 BVLDs.
@littlecrowgunworks Thanks Tim for the next installment. As a 280 AI owner, i was very much looking forward to this one. I was hoping youd find a N555 load that shot well as ive just picked up a pound of that after running through GRT and liking the numbers. Maybe my 1:9 proof barrel will shoot the 150 gr CX well. I plan to set the jump at .050 as Hornady recommends. Hope i can get a load that shoots from my barrel, but i have 4350 as well and i know 4831 SSC shoots the 162 gr ELDX super small. I was hoping for more velocity than 4831, but dropping to the 150 gr CX should give me better blood trails. Thanks again and cant wait to see all the guns stretched out!
Thanks again for a great informative video. As a .280AI shooter/hunter/loader, I’m absorbing info that I want to apply in my loading. Only difference is that I’ve been using slower powders with very good results. VV560 has been good but RL23 and L26 is working great with the 160gr bullets as well as the 143 Hammer Hunte. Thanks again Tim!
Just wondering about n160. I shot it with the 139 CX. and it shot very good unfortunately my chronograph crapped out on me so vel data I am not sure but I think like four out of five groups were like pretty much well under one moa. And you shot up to that burn rate. Just curious.
As always, Tim, the only thing I regret about my time spent watching your videos is that I'm doing it at work, between customers - With no access to my reloading kit. I'd not even eyeballed N150 before this, and now I want to pull up my 280AI load data and run 150 through Gordon's to see what it says for what I've put in it. Thank you for this, and I look forward to the rest!
Tim, I'm finally playing around with Gordon's on my end - If you have any N160 floating around, you might take a look at it too, for science. GRT's showing it getting that 100% burn, a somewhat fuller case, and hitting a velocity that should keep the 280AI with the Hornady 160CX at or above 2000fps at 600yds without risk of overpressure.
Lots of great information again, especially your explanation as to why you use round robin in your testing. Question: how much time do you allow between each shot? I live in Florida and things can get hot really fast. Thanks, as always.
I just found this channel. What a great video! I might have missed it, but why was the H1000 in red with*? Looking forward to seeing your results with 28 Nosler hopefully with 160cx. I used that combo last hunting season and it worked awesome.
The professor is in the house!! Another great video!! Just for curiosity, Tim, have you experimented with any of the 6.5 cartridges? Im debating between the 6.5 cm or the 6.5 prc. I say this as i recently lost my 7 mag to a fire, and I am looking at 1 gun that would work for quite a while.
I have 2 rifles in 280 AI. I shoot 160 CX using 4000 MR 24" barrel consistent 3 shots under 1 MOA 2980 fps I have very good results in the other rifle shooting 168 LRX using 4000 MR 26" barrel at 2850 fps RL 17 has also given me good results.
thank you very much, i have a 280 ai own a win model 70 action, with a shilen barrel 26 inches. i just love. again thanks for you help with the web site for load development [grt]
I might still be on my way up mount stupid, but at least this series is carrying me over some of the things that I have not hit yet so I can avoid them. Thanks, Tim.
Ive been enjoying your videos. How do mitigate bipod hop the way you do? Ive got a 308 with an M24 in a T4A and get bipod hop if I dont load the bipod into a 2x4 screwed into my shooting platform. Ive got a Harris 6-9. I use it at its shortest length. Should I lengthen the legs?
Thank you for the support. The T4A is setup perfectly to be consistent at long range. These MBM Muzzle Brakes are designed to push the muzzle down WHILE it's reducing recoil. Notice the angle of the ports? As the gas exits the ports, it pushes down at a diagonal, which is pushing the barrel down, AND away from the shooter. I don't think the leg length would help much. A heavier bipod or adding a Picatinny rail and shooting off something heavier, like our Thorofare tripod, in effect adds 4 lbs to the rifle stock. Because it's essentially a 4 lb bipod that you can also glass with. That will REALLY tame it down. We don't promote bipods for hunting. Because they have one use and have a severely limited useful range. Where as, a Tripod has many uses and allows you to have a stable shooting position from prone, all the way to standing and anywhere in between. Plus it adds 4 lbs to the rifle to mitigate recoil.
@@sakocat I’m assured you will achieve better accuracy with H4831sc, but expect to lose fps. But truthfully at that speed, I will choose accuracy! Good luck. Love my .280AI’s!
If you are switching from RL26 to H4831sc, you must not be satisfied with either speed or accuracy. I never said you couldn’t have speed and accuracy since that is subjective. I said that H4831sc will not produce the fps that RL26 achieves but you may get better accuracy. It’s not personal. Good luck!
Thank you for this awesome series of videos i have been learning a ton of stuff. I had to buy a cheap laptop just so i could get Gordons reloading tool (no IOS as with everything cool) and it was worth it. Cant wait for the next video.
@@LittleCrowGunworks the past couple days I went back and watched the entire 22 Nosler series. I’ve learned a lot between these series and had my eyes opened to new ways to try things. I really appreciate all the time you’ve spent. Keep hammering
Thanks man. I'm going to keep doing what I can to help you guys out. I didn't have help and it was a long road to get here. If I can shorten you're journey, then my time and effort was worth it.
Using GRT, What is the highest fill ratio that you usually think you can reasonably fit without a struggle?? Ex: GRT says it's 115% fill and you believe that you can most likely fit that reasonably, without fighting it.
@@joearledge I would guess there is some variation from powder to powder. But in my experience with extruded powder, if you use a standard funnel with no drop tube, 103% is about the limit.
@@LittleCrowGunworks OK, thanks for that heads up, I appreciate it. Just making my initial cuts for my powder list. I plan on attempting your method during the initial velocity tests to find max.
@@ronlowney4700 And now I'm considering a 2x fired 280AI brass, necked sized only, down to 0.277, making a dummy round with a 150 grain bullet, and getting a reamer made with it. The 270 O'Connor. From my research it's not a 270 Ackley because, as I understand it, Ackley used a 270 win case and modified the shoulder. The 280AI necked down to 0.277 has more case, shorter neck, thus, ever so slightly more case capacity.
@@rosalindstewart7013 Funny you say that. I was sifting through the entire batch today picking out what is going to the range tomorrow. I said to myself, what have I done, why do I have all these rifles? Then that moment of insanity passed and I was back to normal loving my collection. So, the newest Tikka 30-06, which is a pre-owned, is going. One of my 6.5-284 Normas, my Richards Rifle Co. 270 Win, a Tikka 300WinMag, and two 308s. I saw a new Tikka 708 penny start auction tonight so I bid on it. I checked tracking on 2 more that are on the way, a new stainless T3x superlite 7RemMag which could reach my FFL tomorrow, and a pre-owned T3x 270 Win. If both arrive tomorrow I'll take them out Sunday afternoon.
I simply want to say "thank you." I am 74 and a life-long shooter. I am also a retired teacher, and you Sir, are an EXCELLENT teacher. It is this type of common sense, practical information that helps all of us.
Wow, thank you for the compliment! I'm honored. I'm doing my best to help everyone out.
I bought all of my Stillers when Stiller was still in business. TAC300s and Predators. They work just as well as any other in my experience. If I recall correctly, Horizon Firearms now owns it. I have two 280AI builds and just received a stainless Rem 700 25-06 already in a McMillan stock that I'm converting to a 280AI.
Tim, not sure your order of shooting but I have personally found, as have others, that the CX bullet likes to be shot from a clean barrel. I did an 8 shot string in .3 increments and the group size was about 1.25”. Picked a load to try and shot it after my 143 ELD-X factory from my 6.5 PRC and the group size was 1.75”. Next time out w the same CX load but again a clean barrel and it went into .9”. Found the same thing shooting copper out of my 6.5 CM when it was in the middle of other lead based bullets. Once clean, it shot great. As the first load out of the clean barrel.
Another excellent class.
Awesome thanks for all your hard work in the reloading and filming for us all to watch. i am super grateful for letting me know about Gordons reloading tool, that has saved me a bunch of head scratching and money. i am reloading for a 9.3x62 and a 358 norma mag. the 9.3x62 factory ammo is loaded to a pretty low, and the 358 norma mag cant even find factory ammo. hopping to get a load ready for the hunting season. keep up all the great work
Thanks man, I'm happy you can get those rifles rolling and get the most out of them in a safe manner.
Love my 280ai I’m shooting 175ELD-X @ 2850 24”barrel with 7828SSC
Im on the hot side I think I need to back off but it’s killed four elk so far.
Yeah that's spicy.
I'm interested in trying your load development method, I just recently assembled a 280AI for hunting purposes that weighed in at 8lbs with my scope installed. I had already chose the Hornady CX 160g for my bullet and was thinking H4350 but with your load development I might try another powder or two. Thanks for the great series.
Very exciting. I would try multiple. It's a cheap investment for a chance to strike gold. Thanks for the support.
Thank you for this series. Your ladder testing with multiple powders was great. Specifically looking for common velocities for your Sweet Spots. BTW my 280 AI is a Remington Action with a 1/8 26” Proof barrel. I use a McGuire 160 copper rose and 58.5g RL23. 3080fps.
Thank you Tim. Appreciate all your work on this series.
Thank you for your steady support.
I am happy with the handloads I've re-verified in my 280AI with a 24" Bartlein 5 groove #3 contour - 139 Barnes LRX over Superformance at 3300fps. I'll use it out to 400 or 450 yards. Still haven't made time to do any further testing in my Brux barreled 280AI. I plan to take a 2x fired Norma case, neck it down to accept a .277 bullet, seat a 150 ABLR to make a dummy round and send it off to JGS for a reamer - 270 O'Connor. I spoke with a builder who is very familiar with it and he stated to me he averages 3200fps with a 130 mono but doesn't like to run cartridges hard and gets long brass life. I tend to run them as hot as they will go accurately and just buy more brass. Maybe I should rethink what I'm thinking.
Pioneering Wildcats = Headaches
@@LittleCrowGunworks Glad I didn't pioneer that one. It's been around awhile.
I shoot round robin and reverse round robin every time I shoot, whether it's working on OCW for one rifle, one bullet, one powder, or testing multiple factory ammo in a rifle or even when I get to a step where I've settled on a bullet but comparing different powders. Also, in one of my 7PRCs the LRT is the best powder so far in it with 170 BVLDs.
Thank you for another great video. I'm looking forward to seeing the longer range performance of the test loads.
Me too!
@littlecrowgunworks Thanks Tim for the next installment. As a 280 AI owner, i was very much looking forward to this one. I was hoping youd find a N555 load that shot well as ive just picked up a pound of that after running through GRT and liking the numbers. Maybe my 1:9 proof barrel will shoot the 150 gr CX well. I plan to set the jump at .050 as Hornady recommends. Hope i can get a load that shoots from my barrel, but i have 4350 as well and i know 4831 SSC shoots the 162 gr ELDX super small. I was hoping for more velocity than 4831, but dropping to the 150 gr CX should give me better blood trails. Thanks again and cant wait to see all the guns stretched out!
Thanks again for a great informative video. As a .280AI shooter/hunter/loader, I’m absorbing info that I want to apply in my loading. Only difference is that I’ve been using slower powders with very good results. VV560 has been good but RL23 and L26 is working great with the 160gr bullets as well as the 143 Hammer Hunte. Thanks again Tim!
Glad you're enjoying them, John. Those powders are slower than I would use, but if it's working for you, keep using them.
Just wondering about n160. I shot it with the 139 CX. and it shot very good unfortunately my chronograph crapped out on me so vel data I am not sure but I think like four out of five groups were like pretty much well under one moa. And you shot up to that burn rate. Just curious.
As always, Tim, the only thing I regret about my time spent watching your videos is that I'm doing it at work, between customers - With no access to my reloading kit.
I'd not even eyeballed N150 before this, and now I want to pull up my 280AI load data and run 150 through Gordon's to see what it says for what I've put in it.
Thank you for this, and I look forward to the rest!
Tim, I'm finally playing around with Gordon's on my end - If you have any N160 floating around, you might take a look at it too, for science.
GRT's showing it getting that 100% burn, a somewhat fuller case, and hitting a velocity that should keep the 280AI with the Hornady 160CX at or above 2000fps at 600yds without risk of overpressure.
@michaeltosser7363 I may or may not have picked up a couple pounds yesterday... 😬
Great viewing once again!
Thanks man!
Lots of great information again, especially your explanation as to why you use round robin in your testing. Question: how much time do you allow between each shot? I live in Florida and things can get hot really fast. Thanks, as always.
I allow 2 to 3 minutes WITH a Chamber Chiller installed.
I just found this channel. What a great video! I might have missed it, but why was the H1000 in red with*? Looking forward to seeing your results with 28 Nosler hopefully with 160cx. I used that combo last hunting season and it worked awesome.
Go back to the beginning of the series. Lots of info to chew on.
Yeah that 160CX is no joke. I'll answer your H1000 question in an upcoming video.
I think i'm going to have to incorporate round robin in load testing makes sense. Tks again
Thanks Joe. It really seemed to help me find the true winners and losers.
The professor is in the house!! Another great video!! Just for curiosity, Tim, have you experimented with any of the 6.5 cartridges? Im debating between the 6.5 cm or the 6.5 prc. I say this as i recently lost my 7 mag to a fire, and I am looking at 1 gun that would work for quite a while.
1 Gun to do what?
I have 2 rifles in 280 AI. I shoot 160 CX using 4000 MR 24" barrel consistent 3 shots under 1 MOA 2980 fps
I have very good results in the other rifle shooting 168 LRX using 4000 MR
26" barrel at 2850 fps
RL 17 has also given me good results.
Good stuff. A 160CX at 2980 is screaming for a 24" barrel.
thank you very much, i have a 280 ai own a win model 70 action, with a shilen barrel 26 inches. i just love. again thanks for you help with the web site for load development [grt]
Thank you for joining us. I hope you find Gordon's useful. Most folks do.
Been waiting for this one.. thank you Tim
Thanks for watching George!
I might still be on my way up mount stupid, but at least this series is carrying me over some of the things that I have not hit yet so I can avoid them. Thanks, Tim.
That was my goal!
Ive been enjoying your videos.
How do mitigate bipod hop the way you do?
Ive got a 308 with an M24 in a T4A and get bipod hop if I dont load the bipod into a 2x4 screwed into my shooting platform.
Ive got a Harris 6-9. I use it at its shortest length. Should I lengthen the legs?
Thank you for the support.
The T4A is setup perfectly to be consistent at long range.
These MBM Muzzle Brakes are designed to push the muzzle down WHILE it's reducing recoil. Notice the angle of the ports? As the gas exits the ports, it pushes down at a diagonal, which is pushing the barrel down, AND away from the shooter.
I don't think the leg length would help much. A heavier bipod or adding a Picatinny rail and shooting off something heavier, like our Thorofare tripod, in effect adds 4 lbs to the rifle stock. Because it's essentially a 4 lb bipod that you can also glass with. That will REALLY tame it down.
We don't promote bipods for hunting. Because they have one use and have a severely limited useful range. Where as, a Tripod has many uses and allows you to have a stable shooting position from prone, all the way to standing and anywhere in between. Plus it adds 4 lbs to the rifle to mitigate recoil.
The 130.grain terminal ascent 6.5 PRC are running 3100 fps out of my 24 inch Bergara. 100 fps faster than advertised.
That seems to be the deal with that ammo line. Pretty spicy stuff.
I have a Kimber 280AI. 24inch barrel. I run the 168 Nosler long range at 3000 fps. with RL26. but im going to switch to H4831sc
That's a spicy load.
@@sakocat I’m assured you will achieve better accuracy with H4831sc, but expect to lose fps. But truthfully at that speed, I will choose accuracy! Good luck. Love my .280AI’s!
@@johnkaraphillis754 there is no reason you cant have speed and accuracy.
If you are switching from RL26 to H4831sc, you must not be satisfied with either speed or accuracy. I never said you couldn’t have speed and accuracy since that is subjective. I said that H4831sc will not produce the fps that RL26 achieves but you may get better accuracy. It’s not personal. Good luck!
Thank you for this awesome series of videos i have been learning a ton of stuff. I had to buy a cheap laptop just so i could get Gordons reloading tool (no IOS as with everything cool) and it was worth it. Cant wait for the next video.
Thanks Chris for the continued support. It helps keep these things going. Gordons is a very handy tool in the toolbox.
Another great video Tim. Thanks for doing this
Thank you for the consistent support!
@@LittleCrowGunworks the past couple days I went back and watched the entire 22 Nosler series. I’ve learned a lot between these series and had my eyes opened to new ways to try things. I really appreciate all the time you’ve spent. Keep hammering
Thanks man. I'm going to keep doing what I can to help you guys out. I didn't have help and it was a long road to get here. If I can shorten you're journey, then my time and effort was worth it.
Good stuff!!!
Hornady cx seem to be hard to get good groups.
Not really. Some of these initial test groups were lousy, but the bullet isn't difficult to make shoot well.
Using GRT, What is the highest fill ratio that you usually think you can reasonably fit without a struggle??
Ex: GRT says it's 115% fill and you believe that you can most likely fit that reasonably, without fighting it.
@@joearledge I would guess there is some variation from powder to powder. But in my experience with extruded powder, if you use a standard funnel with no drop tube, 103% is about the limit.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Perfect!, Thanks
@joearledge keep in mind that at 103% you will be VERY compressed.
Compression usually starts around 97 to 98%.
@@LittleCrowGunworks OK, thanks for that heads up, I appreciate it. Just making my initial cuts for my powder list. I plan on attempting your method during the initial velocity tests to find max.
It seems like a lot of people are having good luck with H-4831SC with the 280 AI.
Get you a Garmin chronograph and don't look back. The lab radar that I have used worked horrible for me
Also have not even seen a mention of n160 through the video line up.
N160 is an appropriate powder for the 280AI but I didn't test it yet.
@@LittleCrowGunworks will you be showcasing it in a video or in personal testing?
Undecided.
Needs IMR 7828 SSC or some unobtanium RL 26 ✌
Those are great powders but both are too slow for the 280AI.
4831 sc hammers in just about every 280 ai I've ever messed with
That's the word on the street. Not all the powder is burning, but I hear it shoots.
I definitely don't know how much of it is burning, just knoe it works awesome @LittleCrowGunworks
First
@@ronlowney4700 What makes you think I necked up a 6.5PRC to 0.277?
@@ronlowney4700 I necked down a 7PRC to 270 cal. Remember? the 270-7PRC. It's a rockstar cartridge.
@@ronlowney4700 And now I'm considering a 2x fired 280AI brass, necked sized only, down to 0.277, making a dummy round with a 150 grain bullet, and getting a reamer made with it. The 270 O'Connor. From my research it's not a 270 Ackley because, as I understand it, Ackley used a 270 win case and modified the shoulder. The 280AI necked down to 0.277 has more case, shorter neck, thus, ever so slightly more case capacity.
I would love to see your gun collection Derek, would be like a kid in a lolly shop, cheers ✌️
@@rosalindstewart7013 Funny you say that. I was sifting through the entire batch today picking out what is going to the range tomorrow. I said to myself, what have I done, why do I have all these rifles? Then that moment of insanity passed and I was back to normal loving my collection. So, the newest Tikka 30-06, which is a pre-owned, is going. One of my 6.5-284 Normas, my Richards Rifle Co. 270 Win, a Tikka 300WinMag, and two 308s.
I saw a new Tikka 708 penny start auction tonight so I bid on it. I checked tracking on 2 more that are on the way, a new stainless T3x superlite 7RemMag which could reach my FFL tomorrow, and a pre-owned T3x 270 Win. If both arrive tomorrow I'll take them out Sunday afternoon.
Federal terminal ascent is the best bullet made period
Oh boy, shots fired!
@LittleCrowGunworks you know terminal ascent is great just hard to find for reloaders