Thanks for the video! It's been great to hear your commentary through all the changes. I did have one note. From what I remember from the leaks, spectres did change in a meaningful way: they only draw you directly towards them instead of wherever their player wants.
Gorbag and Shagrat have improved, but not currently even listed on the GW website. Other models that have been removed aren't in the new book, so I wonder if that means they may get new models? (probably not)....
Not sure if its been pointed out yet but you missed another slight buff to berserkers. They now only wound ENEMY models with the swirl and hit everyone strike. So they can be backed up with pikes to help win!!
Doesn't Sharku also get the mounted bonus when he charges? So if he gets the +1 Fight +1 Attack putting him at 3 attacks, he charges in he also gets another +1 Attack for charging on mount?
Great video. Very informative. Not convinced in all honesty, happy folks are very pleased, or at least pleased enough with the changes. I still can’t help thinking there has been much more lost with this than has been put back. The nerfs to Gothmog, blanding of the wraiths, the Mordor profiles in general and the deleting of so many profiles (Dunland heroes, Oathmaker was the worst for me, best 3 are gone). We don’t play in events here so it’s a pass for now, glad I cancelled the book order. Might look again when the next book releases.
Yeah, I can understand that view point. It's the only game I've ever played so this streamlining/simplifying is ok by me now. I wouldn't want it every couple of years like other games though!
@@twotreesgaming He's more film accurate, but he should cost a lot less. I think a good comparison is Theoden. He's a centerpiece model who leads more by buffing than fighting. His profile is even similar. However for some reason he's way more expensive.
I suspect Freca only got two wounds because he dies in one punch. He is canonically less durable than he looks. I predict Shank and Wrot will be in every Besiegers of the Hornburg list, because all other models in the list can also be taken in Usurpers of Edoras, which has a better army bonus, so even if you don't wan't Freca or Thorne, you're better off with Usurpers than Besiergers without Shank and Wrot.
Grima is FAR from that same! He can walk through models now so can't be walled off. Guarenteed supply destroyed in that scenario unless they surround each supply with 3 models
not happy at all with lot of mordor changes... gothmog was nerfed into oblivion with only 2 attacks, and no strike, witch would be fine i guess if the cost wasn't the same as before. His legion too wasn't very competitive before and now i feel is like unplayable in any conpetitive format at all. Morannon are now one of the worst warrior profile for the cost they have, and lot of mordor list have only them as a warrior choice. Still trying to stay positive, welcoming the witch king changes and shagrat/gorbag seems fun. But seeing what they did with heroes like legolas or gwair...i feel the balance feels like not there (yet)?
I'm a diehard WK player, and I don't think he is worse in ever listening except legions of Mordor. His crown is now kind of bad, but F6 is massive, and the fell beast looks absolutely bonkers this edition. Gothmog is really sad, but I think he will still be playable, just not in the army of Gothmog. Morranon orcs are now just OK. But not bad at all. Especially because the only times missing natural F4 really hurts is against dwarves(basically non-exisent) and Isenguard.
I'm pretty much in line with this opinion. Gothmog will definitely take a bit of getting used to but I think Moranons are still a viable option, there was no reason to take regular orcs before. It's a bit of a decision now at least (where there is one...)
i think the only list with both morannons and mordor orcs is Minas Morgul, and with only mordor orcs having blade of the dead i don't see mutch of a choice there. Just don't see why gundabag orcs and uruk had the bump on fight value, with other cool rules like shield wall or ancient enemies, for the same point cost of the morannon. And it is not like now mordor has more choices and versability like it was before, with no cavalry to be seen or decent shooting... still I'm eager to test the new black gate, but I really hope mordor will not become a mere spam of minas morgul lists in every tournament
Thanks for the video! It's been great to hear your commentary through all the changes.
I did have one note. From what I remember from the leaks, spectres did change in a meaningful way: they only draw you directly towards them instead of wherever their player wants.
Ah ok, that probably does change them a fair bit!
Gorbag and Shagrat have improved, but not currently even listed on the GW website. Other models that have been removed aren't in the new book, so I wonder if that means they may get new models? (probably not)....
They are two hugely changed models and are two dated sculpts - I think they'd be contenders but it might be a fools hope!
Ballista can't take additional crew now and the one holding the bolt doesn't count as a pike anymore
Not sure if its been pointed out yet but you missed another slight buff to berserkers. They now only wound ENEMY models with the swirl and hit everyone strike. So they can be backed up with pikes to help win!!
Oh that is good! Hadn't seen that 👌
Doesn't Sharku also get the mounted bonus when he charges? So if he gets the +1 Fight +1 Attack putting him at 3 attacks, he charges in he also gets another +1 Attack for charging on mount?
Yep! He's had a huge buff!
I believe so, as long as he's charging infantry models.
Does outnumbered include spear supports? If Gorbag is fighting 1 model with a spear behind them is that outnumbered or not?
It does not.
This 😅😁
Great video. Very informative. Not convinced in all honesty, happy folks are very pleased, or at least pleased enough with the changes. I still can’t help thinking there has been much more lost with this than has been put back. The nerfs to Gothmog, blanding of the wraiths, the Mordor profiles in general and the deleting of so many profiles (Dunland heroes, Oathmaker was the worst for me, best 3 are gone). We don’t play in events here so it’s a pass for now, glad I cancelled the book order. Might look again when the next book releases.
Yeah, I can understand that view point. It's the only game I've ever played so this streamlining/simplifying is ok by me now. I wouldn't want it every couple of years like other games though!
Gothmog was also lowered down to 2 attack.... No strike. Ouch
Im personally pretty gutted over the Gothmog nerfs
Yeah he's got a lot worse, definitely more film accurate but a lot worse...!
@@twotreesgaming He's more film accurate, but he should cost a lot less. I think a good comparison is Theoden. He's a centerpiece model who leads more by buffing than fighting. His profile is even similar. However for some reason he's way more expensive.
I suspect Freca only got two wounds because he dies in one punch. He is canonically less durable than he looks.
I predict Shank and Wrot will be in every Besiegers of the Hornburg list, because all other models in the list can also be taken in Usurpers of Edoras, which has a better army bonus, so even if you don't wan't Freca or Thorne, you're better off with Usurpers than Besiergers without Shank and Wrot.
That's very true on both fronts. Shank & Wrot are two of my favourite profiles on paper, desperate for them to be released!
Grima is FAR from that same! He can walk through models now so can't be walled off. Guarenteed supply destroyed in that scenario unless they surround each supply with 3 models
Yep completely missed that and I'm a huge Grima fan!! 🤦♂️😂
not happy at all with lot of mordor changes... gothmog was nerfed into oblivion with only 2 attacks, and no strike, witch would be fine i guess if the cost wasn't the same as before. His legion too wasn't very competitive before and now i feel is like unplayable in any conpetitive format at all. Morannon are now one of the worst warrior profile for the cost they have, and lot of mordor list have only them as a warrior choice. Still trying to stay positive, welcoming the witch king changes and shagrat/gorbag seems fun. But seeing what they did with heroes like legolas or gwair...i feel the balance feels like not there (yet)?
Minas Morgal blades of the dead orcs is the way to go for Mordor it seems
I'm a diehard WK player, and I don't think he is worse in ever listening except legions of Mordor.
His crown is now kind of bad, but F6 is massive, and the fell beast looks absolutely bonkers this edition.
Gothmog is really sad, but I think he will still be playable, just not in the army of Gothmog.
Morranon orcs are now just OK. But not bad at all. Especially because the only times missing natural F4 really hurts is against dwarves(basically non-exisent) and Isenguard.
I'm pretty much in line with this opinion. Gothmog will definitely take a bit of getting used to but I think Moranons are still a viable option, there was no reason to take regular orcs before. It's a bit of a decision now at least (where there is one...)
i think the only list with both morannons and mordor orcs is Minas Morgul, and with only mordor orcs having blade of the dead i don't see mutch of a choice there. Just don't see why gundabag orcs and uruk had the bump on fight value, with other cool rules like shield wall or ancient enemies, for the same point cost of the morannon. And it is not like now mordor has more choices and versability like it was before, with no cavalry to be seen or decent shooting... still I'm eager to test the new black gate, but I really hope mordor will not become a mere spam of minas morgul lists in every tournament
The evil armies have been absolutely gutted imo