Everyone puts Malone above Ewing (for good reason, empirically), and way above Reggie Miller, who isn’t a true superstar. But Malone never forced a game 7 versus MJ like Ewing and Miller did!
Baylor deserved a ring, dude retired and his team immediately got one. Gotta be the most tragic out of everyone here with the 0-7 record in the finals and then that as the cherry on top
Reminds me of Mike Mussina. Went to the Yankees in the midst of a dynasty and they lost to the D Backs his first year and to the Marlins in 2003, only for him to retire the year before they would actually win it. Not quite in the same league as Baylor, but still.
Elgin came insanely close to winning a ring. In his final season, nine games in, he was told that he wasn’t the player he used to be and was asked if he would be ok coming from the bench rather than starting, he retired on the spot. That same season the Lakers win the championship and Elgin is asked if he would like a ring for his contributions to the first nine games however he ultimately rejected the offer since he didn’t think he’d done enough to deserve it. Kind of crazy just how close he came to it but ultimately chose not to have a ring when he was asked.
I am an old head and there's no way I would put Allen Iverson in the top 20. You can put him on a list of most influential players but just as a pure basketball player he's nowhere close to top 20. Maybe mid-30s? He played in my favorite era of NBA basketball and I saw him a lot and he did not have much shot selection prowess.
@lukatosic09 that's pretty much what I said. He's definitely a bigger part of basketball culture than many players have ever been. What holds him back in my view is just the fact that he was a shot chucker in the Carmelo kind of mode. He was better than Carmelo but not by a lot and I don't put Carmelo anywhere near the top 30. I do think that Allen Iverson tends to get overrated more than any other basketball player. People just liked his style and that sort of clouds their memories about his career. One trip to the finals and in that trip he was given a gentleman sweep so he's definitely got to be a here below other Stars that have got rings. Then you have to look at the fact of whether his style of play led to winning basketball and against the better teams it really didn't. If you're just judging players by their skill set or their bag then you definitely have to have Allen Iverson pretty high. He was kind of like the Kyrie of his day but a lot less efficient.
@@bookaufman9643 you kind of have to compare him to the era, iso offense was the name of the game then. Could he have been better with better coaching a better roster offensively? Maybe, he was more efficient with Melo in Denver, if he had a some reliable offensive players who could shoot or drive off a dump off and score in traffic he'd probably be more efficient. He was also a better and more willing passer than people think, and not a terrible defender when he wasn't leading the league in minutes, he was also a multi time steals leader (twice iirc)
@lukatosic09 no doubt he was very fast in his hands and feet so he got a lot of steals. It's kind of weird sometimes that the steals leader will be somebody who's not even a star or sometimes not even thought it was a good defensive player. They may be blowing assignments by constantly chasing steals but I don't really have an opinion on whether Iverson did that or not. I know it was a different era but there were a ton of other players who were much more efficient than Allen Iverson was during his era.
I'd say it's probably a bit taboo to admit this since their star players reputations have been tarnished by so much off the court baggage but the 90's Jazz were probably one of my favorite teams to watch during that time. Their offense was ahead of its time with a lot of off-ball movement, cutting, and steady diet of pick and roll between Malone and Stockton. They played very unselfishly, always willing to make the extra pass and were generally successful in putting a lot of pressure on the rim which allowed their perimeter shooters like Stockton and Hornacek to get open. Jerry Sloan obviously ran a very tight ship since his team could run his offense like clockwork almost to a fault, it was likely this lack of flexibility that might've ultimately hurt this team a lot in the playoffs. But when it worked it really worked, and it was quite the beauty to watch.
@@Jonathan-A.C. Malone is a child molester and Stockton is an anti-vax right wing lunatic. They get swept under the rug for good reason. Jordan is a bit of an asshole socially, but never a danger to society-level asshole.
I really hope harden will be more respected after he retires because he was so dominant for so long but because he play in a style that even I didn’t like, he is just slept on
@ oh he definitely could but at this point in his career he couldn’t be a number one on a Championship and would end up in a similar place to Robinson or Kidds rings where they were clearly over the hill but still definitely big contributors. Harden really had 4 seasons top 2 in mvp which is more than shaq Kobe and curry as well as 3 scoring and 2 assist titles making him the only player besides his competition Westbrook with two of each.
@Jonathan-A.C. salary caps are still a thing. Teams are still relying on old players to carry their teams because aside from the Europeans, the newer generation can't replace the older ones in terms of quality and mentality
@ That’s just some bullshit. Yeah the league changes and different things are prioritized, but even then, teams stuck with old greats in order to try to win for as long as basketball has been a sport. You don’t think Ewing in the late 90’s was an old player? Or Hakeem in the late 90’s? Bird by the time he was washed? All these players were in similar positions. No different than today’s league. And your point about Europeans is nonsense, too. Even though they’ve won MVP’s and 2 rings in the last few seasons, it doesn’t mean that is dominated the entire league, and it certainly doesn’t mean they don’t get contracts. Where are you when Luka doesn’t play great defense and whines about calls all day long? Where are you when Giannis is actively pushing his team to find help lest he leave for greener pastures? Where will you be when Jokic, probably Giannis, and possibly Luka are getting these massive contracts while they hit their mid 30’s?
@Jonathan-A.C. No one played until their late 30s and got max contracts, except for the all time top 20ers maybe but they also didn't play 20 seasons, stop rewriting history. Nowadays fucking Paul George has a max until he's 38. Yeah, you're right that Jokic and Doncic are going to be getting a max in their 30s, that's my point, sweaty
Russel didnt have, to this day, a better career than chuck. Both had 1 mvp and 1 trip to the finals, but just one of them was the go to guy to theeir team in that trip
As a Suns fan, Nash should have won a ring in 2007. I respect the Spurs immensely, but they played so dirty that series. Nash had his nose broken in GAME 1 and missed the end of a close game. Amare and Nash were still in the zone. Then Horry checked Nash into the scorer’s table, and Amare and Diaw got suspended for a crucial game because of that. Spurs would beat Utah 4-1 and then go on to sweep Bron and the Cavs. I won’t say we were “robbed”, but I definitely think the series should have and would have gone differently. Oh, and who was referee in that pivotal game 3 in SA? Tim Donaghy, who went to jail for fixing games.
It's tough reading basketball reference page sometimes but it appears that John Stockton did make the playoffs every year of his career. There are a lot of four and five game first round losses at the beginning and near the end of his career. He is probably now the most underrated NBA player of all time. He also had a pretty big reputation for being a dirty player but that was what the NBA was like when he was in it.
Charles Barkley may seem happier than Michael Jordan because Charles Barkley never had his father shot to death on the side of the road. I know that sounds bleak but I think that's been a big part of MJ's view of things.
I don’t think Russ ever played against the warriors in the playoffs after kd left . He lost to the jazz and the trailblazers and harden rockets after kd left never making it out the first round
He lost 2017 to the Rockets, which was understandable enough. He lost 2018 to the Jazz, which sucked (he had PG then too). He lost 2019 to the Blazers, which to some degree was Carmelo’s fault, but also he just didn’t play too great. Then he joined the Rockets and they lost to the Lakers in the WCSF, then he left to the Wizards and they lost in 6 to the Sixers, then the Lakers and they missed the Playoffs, and then 2 first round exits on the Clippers (played well against the Suns in 2023, and played piss poor against the Mavs in 2024). He does not have great Playoff success at all outside of his time with KD, who he ironically only lost to once in his best series in 2023, although this year might be a change
Genuinely how is CP3 over Harden? Cp3 has a nba record of five 2-0 blown leads + a 3-1 lead blown to HARDEN HIMSELF!! Cp3 earned his first 3rd round appearance being with Harden, while Harden already did it 3 times before him And Harden is a MVP while CP3 is not, this makes no sense my man
CP3 has made every team he's ever been on better. u dont know ball, harden and cp3 being relative is sum i can agree on but lets not disrespect CP. James Harden made it to the finals as a 6th man, cp3 transformed the suns and practically took them to the finals. Cmon bro :/ accolade watching will only get you so far
@ cp3 made the finals then blew a 2-0 lead being healthy😂😂 + took advantage of Kawhi being unavailable in the WCF or else it would’ve been obvious his ass wouldve been sent to Cancun if it wasnt for that
@@whatshorts a 12ptsb/8ast in the Finals beast, watched his team put up an all time low 54 points in a Finals game, he has no case over Steve Nash, who was a true floor raiser, Russ, CP3, Harden, Barkley, Elgin Baylor, is always the same demographic hyping up that average ass player
I thought they were up three games to one in 2018. I could have it wrong and I should just look it up but for some reason I thought they were up 3-1 and blew it.
@whatshorts just outside the list or 10th. Played through every mentioned era, 4 different decades. 22nd on all time scoring list. Was in the finals I think twice. Great journeyman and role player later in his career and was still very serviceable and a good plug and play.
@@joshgeissel9828 Vince never made a finals. Closest he came was with Orlando in 2010 when they made the conference finals and he did not play well that series.
I think if the Bulls and Rockets ended up meeting in both of those Finals it would've been insanely entertaining. Missing out on Jordan/Hakeem is like missing out on Lebron/Kobe. Jordan would've annihilated the Rockets guards but the Bulls literally never had a good big man so Hakeem would have absolutely feasted as well. Rockets usually beat them in the regular season from '91-'93 as well so it definitely would've been a challenge. We might have seen some of the craziest finals performances of all time if they matched up. Not that Jordan and Hakeem don't already have some of the greatest of all time, but more is always good
Yeah but if he played all 82 they’re probably the 1 seed and not the 5 seed and he’s got much more momentum than the 15 or so games he had to get warmed up before then.
Does anyone else share a bias against some 60's players? Russell, no, he was a freak on defense that is plain to see in the footage of him. Chamberlain? A physical beast regardless of the era. But Jerry West bugs me that his left is so darn weak. Still I think he translates to the modern NBA as someone like Klay. Robertson? That dude always seems to pull up his dribble early. Bugs the crap out of me. That's why I rate Havlicek higher. When I watch his footage his game looks pretty modern.
Ewing >>>>> Nash. He never play with a real All Star alongside, and Knicks still was a constant contender during 10 years. My respects. Give him a player like Stoudemire or Dirk and let´s see what would happened Barkley, Ewging and Iverson were much more better player than Westbrook, please. Pure stats.
I'm even older than you and I have seen Russell Westbrook play and got to watch Charles Barkley play and Charles Barkley is by far the better player. I'm a nuggets fan and I love Westbrook on our team Barkley was an amazing and unstoppable player. Russ is up there but definitely not ahead of Charles Barkley in my opinion.
He wasn’t that good in 2012, although he technically was in the Finals. Whereas 2018 was against the best team ever, and they nearly won in 6 before CP3 went down, and then barely lost in a crazy 7th game. They would’ve won against the LeBron only Cavs I’m sure Edit: In effect, he had more impact and a chance in 2018
Nash did in 2005 I believe, and so did Dirk in 2007, if I’m remembering correctly. Lemme check. Nash was by far 50/40/90 on 2006 (close several other times, including Playoffs), and Dirk was in 2007 (like Nash, he was close other seasons). Steph was also 50/40/90 for 2016, which was the greatest scoring Regular Season ever. Nash did make it 4 more times, just not for MVP years. Bird made it twice in 87 and 88. Nobody else won it that close to when they won an MVP, and some players never won MVP to begin with who made it. But surprisingly, 5 out of the 9 players who made the club won MVP’s and 4/5 won FMVP, and 10 of the 14 selections were from players who at one point did win MVP. So it’s surprisingly connected to MVP winning, and overall dominance
So, first time watching. Your argument as to why you have Iverson in the top 20 of ALL-TIME. I think just because you never seen Robertson or West play, but you know that they were part of historical franchises AND were high scorers AND had iconic performances. I mean, West is the logo. West has the only Finals MVP on a losing team. Robertson, who had a triple double for an entire season, had won a ring(71 Bucks). You said you're only 35. 2024-25 season is the 79th year of the NBA. I know that if I watched Seven Samurai from 1954, I wasn't born yet. But I can acknowledge the movie as innovative. As a cinematic masterpiece. I have never seen it. I have never seen Wilt play in his prime.. except here on YT. But, I sure know of his accomplishments. Idk if Steph, who is hands down the best point guard to ever play that position. Cause I know of Magic's accolades.. I know they had better competition back in the 1980s (excuse late 1900s) Anyway, you can also mention, and why didn't you when you talked about Ewing, that AI was on several teams AFTER his prime years in Philly. He had played earlier during his career with some God awful teams. Sixers were the laughing stock in 96-97. So yes, after getting Stackhouse, then swapping out Big dog Glen Robinson, and later Chris Webber... Iverson had finally played for title contenders, making it to the Finals in 01. I won't put him higher than 32 on the all-time list.
No way Iverson is top 20. Jordan Kareem LeBron Magic Bird Shaq Kobe Curry Hakeem Duncan Russell Chamberlain Durant Garnett Havlicek Erving Moses Malone Barkley Stockton Dirk Nowitzki
@@ArthPedro I struggle with who was more important, him or Malone. The assists and steals records are impressive. That being said I could easily swap in Elgin Baylor or Rick Barry.
@@whatshorts Then the guys right outside my top 20 are Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, Rick Barry, Karl Malone. Is AI better than any of those guys? It's close so I say he is Top 25.
1 mj 2 bill russ 3 lebron 4 magic 5 duncan 6 bird 7 kareem 8 kobe 9 shaq 10 curry 11 wilt 12 olajuwon 13-15 no order Isiah thomas, dr J , moses malone 16-20 no order Dirk, jerry west, jokic, giannis, havlicek AI is not top 30 Westbrook is not top 40 John stockton is not greater or better than elgin baylor
Patrick never played with a great team man. And I'm a Pacers fan. And Hakeem was better than Patrick yesterday. But the ROCKETS was better than the Knicks.
@porterwake3898 if you consider that a Great squad... That says it all. He had some solid squads. He never had a great team. He never even had a legit second star outside Jackson who thank God they sent to Indiana
The S tier guys with no rings are Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Stockton. Harden belongs way off this list because he didn't give a shit about defense. Harden doesn't win titles because he does not have the heart of a champion.
An MVP is equal to a Finals win. An MVP means you were one of the best players in the NBA, a Finals Championship win means you were on the best TEAM. There are really good players on championship winning teams that are not MVP caliber players.
I cannot stand James Harden. Constant foul baiting to the point where the NBA had to change the rules. Look at how far his scoring has dropped since they stopped giving him those foul calls where he was the one actually initiating the contact. Also he's gotten older. One of my least favorite players of all time.😊
Dude you’re 35? I was thinking 27-28
I moisturize.
You're thinking of his Playoff Win Record
Im so glad mike whooped Malone in those series so we dont have to talk about him ever lol
My Mike knew about Malone's past 🤔
Everyone puts Malone above Ewing (for good reason, empirically), and way above Reggie Miller, who isn’t a true superstar. But Malone never forced a game 7 versus MJ like Ewing and Miller did!
ewing actually made the finals twice he was on the 8th seeded knicks in 1999 and lost against the spurs
but he was injured those entire playoffs. Still would’ve had a ring if they won though
@@ScoopsTherobotreal1they wouldn't have gotten through the playoffs without him tho
@@ScoopsTherobotreal1
He was, but in the video, it says he made the Finals only once
Yeah, my b. I meant to bring that up. good call.
Baylor deserved a ring, dude retired and his team immediately got one. Gotta be the most tragic out of everyone here with the 0-7 record in the finals and then that as the cherry on top
yeah, seems like a nice guy too.
Reminds me of Mike Mussina. Went to the Yankees in the midst of a dynasty and they lost to the D Backs his first year and to the Marlins in 2003, only for him to retire the year before they would actually win it. Not quite in the same league as Baylor, but still.
@@swagsterpt2 I hate how often people talk about losing in the finals as a negative and ignore losing before the finals
Elgin came insanely close to winning a ring. In his final season, nine games in, he was told that he wasn’t the player he used to be and was asked if he would be ok coming from the bench rather than starting, he retired on the spot. That same season the Lakers win the championship and Elgin is asked if he would like a ring for his contributions to the first nine games however he ultimately rejected the offer since he didn’t think he’d done enough to deserve it. Kind of crazy just how close he came to it but ultimately chose not to have a ring when he was asked.
I didn't know about this until I did research for this video. truly tragic character. RIP
Fun fact: Karl Malone's favorite number is 13.
cute ;)
@whatshorts 😊
I am an old head and there's no way I would put Allen Iverson in the top 20. You can put him on a list of most influential players but just as a pure basketball player he's nowhere close to top 20. Maybe mid-30s? He played in my favorite era of NBA basketball and I saw him a lot and he did not have much shot selection prowess.
Top 20 is a bit high but not insane. Comfortably top 30 for me, maybe top 25
@lukatosic09 that's pretty much what I said. He's definitely a bigger part of basketball culture than many players have ever been. What holds him back in my view is just the fact that he was a shot chucker in the Carmelo kind of mode. He was better than Carmelo but not by a lot and I don't put Carmelo anywhere near the top 30. I do think that Allen Iverson tends to get overrated more than any other basketball player. People just liked his style and that sort of clouds their memories about his career. One trip to the finals and in that trip he was given a gentleman sweep so he's definitely got to be a here below other Stars that have got rings. Then you have to look at the fact of whether his style of play led to winning basketball and against the better teams it really didn't. If you're just judging players by their skill set or their bag then you definitely have to have Allen Iverson pretty high. He was kind of like the Kyrie of his day but a lot less efficient.
@@bookaufman9643 you kind of have to compare him to the era, iso offense was the name of the game then. Could he have been better with better coaching a better roster offensively? Maybe, he was more efficient with Melo in Denver, if he had a some reliable offensive players who could shoot or drive off a dump off and score in traffic he'd probably be more efficient.
He was also a better and more willing passer than people think, and not a terrible defender when he wasn't leading the league in minutes, he was also a multi time steals leader (twice iirc)
@lukatosic09 no doubt he was very fast in his hands and feet so he got a lot of steals. It's kind of weird sometimes that the steals leader will be somebody who's not even a star or sometimes not even thought it was a good defensive player. They may be blowing assignments by constantly chasing steals but I don't really have an opinion on whether Iverson did that or not. I know it was a different era but there were a ton of other players who were much more efficient than Allen Iverson was during his era.
true. some people put AI above Nash which I think is crazy.
I'd say it's probably a bit taboo to admit this since their star players reputations have been tarnished by so much off the court baggage but the 90's Jazz were probably one of my favorite teams to watch during that time. Their offense was ahead of its time with a lot of off-ball movement, cutting, and steady diet of pick and roll between Malone and Stockton. They played very unselfishly, always willing to make the extra pass and were generally successful in putting a lot of pressure on the rim which allowed their perimeter shooters like Stockton and Hornacek to get open. Jerry Sloan obviously ran a very tight ship since his team could run his offense like clockwork almost to a fault, it was likely this lack of flexibility that might've ultimately hurt this team a lot in the playoffs. But when it worked it really worked, and it was quite the beauty to watch.
Yeah if Stockton played more score first and especially took more 3’s, they might have a title off that alone
yeah, they played great basketball. It's very interesting that the Jazz era is sort of swept under the NBA's rug.
@@whatshorts
It’s cause they lost and Malone rightfully gets scrutinized. Unfortunate for Stockton and the rest
@@Jonathan-A.C. Malone is a child molester and Stockton is an anti-vax right wing lunatic. They get swept under the rug for good reason. Jordan is a bit of an asshole socially, but never a danger to society-level asshole.
I really hope harden will be more respected after he retires because he was so dominant for so long but because he play in a style that even I didn’t like, he is just slept on
I think he will, but he could use the ring regardless.
@ oh he definitely could but at this point in his career he couldn’t be a number one on a Championship and would end up in a similar place to Robinson or Kidds rings where they were clearly over the hill but still definitely big contributors.
Harden really had 4 seasons top 2 in mvp which is more than shaq Kobe and curry as well as 3 scoring and 2 assist titles making him the only player besides his competition Westbrook with two of each.
i love how simple these videos are
It ain't gotta be that complicated.
"People overrate retired players, erm kind of weird"
*Meanwhile in the current era NBA, 30+ year olds are being regularly offered max contracts*
You’d be surprised how much revenue the league banks in in general
@Jonathan-A.C. salary caps are still a thing. Teams are still relying on old players to carry their teams because aside from the Europeans, the newer generation can't replace the older ones in terms of quality and mentality
@
That’s just some bullshit. Yeah the league changes and different things are prioritized, but even then, teams stuck with old greats in order to try to win for as long as basketball has been a sport. You don’t think Ewing in the late 90’s was an old player? Or Hakeem in the late 90’s? Bird by the time he was washed? All these players were in similar positions. No different than today’s league. And your point about Europeans is nonsense, too. Even though they’ve won MVP’s and 2 rings in the last few seasons, it doesn’t mean that is dominated the entire league, and it certainly doesn’t mean they don’t get contracts. Where are you when Luka doesn’t play great defense and whines about calls all day long? Where are you when Giannis is actively pushing his team to find help lest he leave for greener pastures? Where will you be when Jokic, probably Giannis, and possibly Luka are getting these massive contracts while they hit their mid 30’s?
@Jonathan-A.C. No one played until their late 30s and got max contracts, except for the all time top 20ers maybe but they also didn't play 20 seasons, stop rewriting history. Nowadays fucking Paul George has a max until he's 38.
Yeah, you're right that Jokic and Doncic are going to be getting a max in their 30s, that's my point, sweaty
legends gotta be revered I suppose
Russel didnt have, to this day, a better career than chuck. Both had 1 mvp and 1 trip to the finals, but just one of them was the go to guy to theeir team in that trip
Harden either
My b, man. Tell Chuck I said I'm sorry
As a Suns fan, Nash should have won a ring in 2007. I respect the Spurs immensely, but they played so dirty that series. Nash had his nose broken in GAME 1 and missed the end of a close game. Amare and Nash were still in the zone. Then Horry checked Nash into the scorer’s table, and Amare and Diaw got suspended for a crucial game because of that. Spurs would beat Utah 4-1 and then go on to sweep Bron and the Cavs. I won’t say we were “robbed”, but I definitely think the series should have and would have gone differently. Oh, and who was referee in that pivotal game 3 in SA? Tim Donaghy, who went to jail for fixing games.
They were 100% robbed. Stern implemented specific rules that affected them in a bullshit way. Suns that year were better than the Spurs
Nash's nose is looking way better these days. Hope we see more of it sometime soon on the sideline.
Good list but you probably need to research more before speaking on a lot of these things
Yes, didnt even know what number jordan wear when he came back. Thats nba history 101
thanks man!
Who do you thinks winning the championship
James Harden not being at #1 is insane. Greatest offensive peak of all time. The 🐐
Sounds like there are some fights to pick in the comment section 👇
It's tough reading basketball reference page sometimes but it appears that John Stockton did make the playoffs every year of his career. There are a lot of four and five game first round losses at the beginning and near the end of his career. He is probably now the most underrated NBA player of all time. He also had a pretty big reputation for being a dirty player but that was what the NBA was like when he was in it.
A stockton doc would be incredible. directed by the safdie bros
Didn't know AI had a second MVP
😂😂😂
That’s what I’m saying
must a been somethin I dreamed of
I think its amusing that your main channel has shorter videos than your shorts channel lol (not that im complaining, love your stuff)
Irony is the spice of life 🌶️
Great list Brodie
Thanks man. Hope you're doing well
Ewing wouldve had another finals appearance in ‘99 if he didn’t get injured
Thanks for saying it this way ❤️
Damn bro Jimmy can’t even make an appearance on THIS list 😂😂
he'd be in if I was talking about current players no doubt.
steve nash is one of the best passers ever bc the lazy eye gives him extra vision (trust)
strengths become weaknesses.
mf tried to sneak in CP0 😭
🤫
Charles Barkley may seem happier than Michael Jordan because Charles Barkley never had his father shot to death on the side of the road. I know that sounds bleak but I think that's been a big part of MJ's view of things.
yeah, you're probably right. tough truth.
NUGGETS?? I thought we were lakers fan together
I'm out on the Lakers. My heart lies in Denver.
I don’t think Russ ever played against the warriors in the playoffs after kd left . He lost to the jazz and the trailblazers and harden rockets after kd left never making it out the first round
He lost 2017 to the Rockets, which was understandable enough. He lost 2018 to the Jazz, which sucked (he had PG then too). He lost 2019 to the Blazers, which to some degree was Carmelo’s fault, but also he just didn’t play too great. Then he joined the Rockets and they lost to the Lakers in the WCSF, then he left to the Wizards and they lost in 6 to the Sixers, then the Lakers and they missed the Playoffs, and then 2 first round exits on the Clippers (played well against the Suns in 2023, and played piss poor against the Mavs in 2024). He does not have great Playoff success at all outside of his time with KD, who he ironically only lost to once in his best series in 2023, although this year might be a change
I think you're right too.
Genuinely how is CP3 over Harden?
Cp3 has a nba record of five 2-0 blown leads + a 3-1 lead blown to HARDEN HIMSELF!!
Cp3 earned his first 3rd round appearance being with Harden, while Harden already did it 3 times before him
And Harden is a MVP while CP3 is not, this makes no sense my man
Sorry my brother 🙇
@@whatshorts putting Harden’s obstacles as “himself” but Chris Paul being “Tim Duncan and the Spurs”
Like dude😂😂😂the bias is unreal
CP3 has made every team he's ever been on better. u dont know ball, harden and cp3 being relative is sum i can agree on but lets not disrespect CP. James Harden made it to the finals as a 6th man, cp3 transformed the suns and practically took them to the finals. Cmon bro :/ accolade watching will only get you so far
@ cp3 made the finals then blew a 2-0 lead being healthy😂😂 + took advantage of Kawhi being unavailable in the WCF or else it would’ve been obvious his ass wouldve been sent to Cancun if it wasnt for that
Westbrook has a higher chance of getting a ring than Harden now that he's with Jokic
yeah, probably. I'd say Harden isn't far behind though.
Man, Stockton is barely in top 10. Also, when Russ teamed up with Harden they didnt met KD in the playoffs
Stockton was beast.
@@whatshorts a 12ptsb/8ast in the Finals beast, watched his team put up an all time low 54 points in a Finals game, he has no case over Steve Nash, who was a true floor raiser, Russ, CP3, Harden, Barkley, Elgin Baylor, is always the same demographic hyping up that average ass player
harden went to the finals in 2012 with the thunder
egg zach lee
How far off was Reggie Miller from being considered for a list like this?
literally 11
Soon as you didn’t know what number Jordan wore when he came back I made this comment and clicked off .
Me too. This guy sucks.
I thought they were up three games to one in 2018. I could have it wrong and I should just look it up but for some reason I thought they were up 3-1 and blew it.
memories can be hazy
Giving Vince Carter an honorable mention
where would you rank him?
@whatshorts just outside the list or 10th. Played through every mentioned era, 4 different decades. 22nd on all time scoring list. Was in the finals I think twice. Great journeyman and role player later in his career and was still very serviceable and a good plug and play.
@@joshgeissel9828 Vince never made a finals. Closest he came was with Orlando in 2010 when they made the conference finals and he did not play well that series.
McGrady too tbh
U guys are crazy. Vince and tmac area a tier below the guys here
NFL related but is Mahomes the Jordan to Allen’s Ewing
that's the way it seems at this point. go chiefs!
I think the Bulls maybe could have won those 2 but if they did, would probably be too worn out to win in 98. So I predict they could have 7 peated.
split the difference
I think if the Bulls and Rockets ended up meeting in both of those Finals it would've been insanely entertaining. Missing out on Jordan/Hakeem is like missing out on Lebron/Kobe. Jordan would've annihilated the Rockets guards but the Bulls literally never had a good big man so Hakeem would have absolutely feasted as well. Rockets usually beat them in the regular season from '91-'93 as well so it definitely would've been a challenge. We might have seen some of the craziest finals performances of all time if they matched up. Not that Jordan and Hakeem don't already have some of the greatest of all time, but more is always good
Jordan came back for the playoffs and lost to the Magic the year the Rockets repeated. 8:00
Yeah but if he played all 82 they’re probably the 1 seed and not the 5 seed and he’s got much more momentum than the 15 or so games he had to get warmed up before then.
@@JoshAhlstromI mean he was doing jordan things. Averaged 31/6/4 on 0.48 fg% in that series. Sometimes basketball is a team sport and you just lose
I know. It's crazy nobody talks about it. he was out there losing.
Does anyone else share a bias against some 60's players? Russell, no, he was a freak on defense that is plain to see in the footage of him. Chamberlain? A physical beast regardless of the era. But Jerry West bugs me that his left is so darn weak. Still I think he translates to the modern NBA as someone like Klay. Robertson? That dude always seems to pull up his dribble early. Bugs the crap out of me. That's why I rate Havlicek higher. When I watch his footage his game looks pretty modern.
🙋♂️
Ewing made the finals TWICE actually
I'm on a bus right now but I think he was injured in 1999
Damn putting active players on here makes me sad im of the thought that it’s still possible for brodie
don't give up hope.
Kd and Ai my favorite ringless players!
I see you sneak dissin
I would swap Chris Paul and John Stockton
Interesting. Comment section might come after you on this one. haha
Great list! I think I’d have AI at 7 and Harden at 8 tho, love me some AI and might be a harden hater
When you make these lists u gotta be objective and unbiased my man
Both have solid cases and mainly Hardens scoring runs those few years are what tilted the scale.
Ewing >>>>> Nash. He never play with a real All Star alongside, and Knicks still was a constant contender during 10 years. My respects. Give him a player like Stoudemire or Dirk and let´s see what would happened
Barkley, Ewging and Iverson were much more better player than Westbrook, please. Pure stats.
yeah, maybe I'm giving Russ too much cred because I'm hot for him now that he's on the nugz.
I'm even older than you and I have seen Russell Westbrook play and got to watch Charles Barkley play and Charles Barkley is by far the better player. I'm a nuggets fan and I love Westbrook on our team Barkley was an amazing and unstoppable player. Russ is up there but definitely not ahead of Charles Barkley in my opinion.
Seems like that's the verdict from the comment section.
Wouldn’t James Harden’s closest be the same as Russ’s closest?
Small point of contention but worth considering
He wasn’t that good in 2012, although he technically was in the Finals. Whereas 2018 was against the best team ever, and they nearly won in 6 before CP3 went down, and then barely lost in a crazy 7th game. They would’ve won against the LeBron only Cavs I’m sure
Edit: In effect, he had more impact and a chance in 2018
I think the rockets loss in the WCF was truly a Egyptian level curse.
I'm like 99% sure that no player won a ring the year they were in the "40/50/90 Club"
Also, all my homies hate karl malone
Nash did in 2005 I believe, and so did Dirk in 2007, if I’m remembering correctly. Lemme check.
Nash was by far 50/40/90 on 2006 (close several other times, including Playoffs), and Dirk was in 2007 (like Nash, he was close other seasons). Steph was also 50/40/90 for 2016, which was the greatest scoring Regular Season ever. Nash did make it 4 more times, just not for MVP years. Bird made it twice in 87 and 88. Nobody else won it that close to when they won an MVP, and some players never won MVP to begin with who made it. But surprisingly, 5 out of the 9 players who made the club won MVP’s and 4/5 won FMVP, and 10 of the 14 selections were from players who at one point did win MVP. So it’s surprisingly connected to MVP winning, and overall dominance
all homies hate the mailman.
John Stockton at 2😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
u right. he should be 1 ;)
@whatshorts least Caucasian opinion I've seen
@whatshorts least Caucasian opinion I've seen
They used to clown karl malone back in the 90's and early 2000's. Because of his accent.
he is mad country.
What Slaps? Goat Slaps.
🫶
So, first time watching. Your argument as to why you have Iverson in the top 20 of ALL-TIME. I think just because you never seen Robertson or West play, but you know that they were part of historical franchises AND were high scorers AND had iconic performances. I mean, West is the logo. West has the only Finals MVP on a losing team. Robertson, who had a triple double for an entire season, had won a ring(71 Bucks).
You said you're only 35. 2024-25 season is the 79th year of the NBA.
I know that if I watched Seven Samurai from 1954, I wasn't born yet. But I can acknowledge the movie as innovative. As a cinematic masterpiece. I have never seen it.
I have never seen Wilt play in his prime.. except here on YT. But, I sure know of his accomplishments. Idk if Steph, who is hands down the best point guard to ever play that position. Cause I know of Magic's accolades.. I know they had better competition back in the 1980s (excuse late 1900s) Anyway, you can also mention, and why didn't you when you talked about Ewing, that AI was on several teams AFTER his prime years in Philly. He had played earlier during his career with some God awful teams. Sixers were the laughing stock in 96-97. So yes, after getting Stackhouse, then swapping out Big dog Glen Robinson, and later Chris Webber... Iverson had finally played for title contenders, making it to the Finals in 01. I won't put him higher than 32 on the all-time list.
seems like the comment section has AI right about 32 as well. I get it.
You've got a new sub, either way 😊
Brudda you cannot put Malone at 1 😩
it is written
No way Iverson is top 20. Jordan
Kareem
LeBron
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Kobe
Curry
Hakeem
Duncan
Russell
Chamberlain
Durant
Garnett
Havlicek
Erving
Moses Malone
Barkley
Stockton
Dirk Nowitzki
He said AI Top 20???
Stockton not Top 20 too stop it
22?
@@ArthPedro I struggle with who was more important, him or Malone. The assists and steals records are impressive. That being said I could easily swap in Elgin Baylor or Rick Barry.
@@whatshorts Then the guys right outside my top 20 are Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, Rick Barry, Karl Malone. Is AI better than any of those guys? It's close so I say he is Top 25.
shouldve clumped john and karl together and fit another dude in
make me a slide for reggie miller and I'll rerecord.
120 for Nash lmao
120?
@@whatshorts Playoff games, that is
Russ over Barkley is a terrible take. Did you even watch barkley play.
Not much I was pretty young
You’re going to have to edit Russ out after this season.
I hope so 🤞
Very limited basketball knowledge you have.
Thanks ❤️
@@whatshorts You're welcome do better. Thumbs down, do not recommend.
Hear me out, dont cut your hair. Somehow it make u younger
dressing like a 17 year old gives me a couple years too.
1 mj
2 bill russ
3 lebron
4 magic
5 duncan
6 bird
7 kareem
8 kobe
9 shaq
10 curry
11 wilt
12 olajuwon
13-15 no order
Isiah thomas, dr J , moses malone
16-20 no order
Dirk, jerry west, jokic, giannis, havlicek
AI is not top 30
Westbrook is not top 40
John stockton is not greater or better than elgin baylor
I agree. with most of this. Stockton was beast though.
Patrick never played with a great team man. And I'm a Pacers fan. And Hakeem was better than Patrick yesterday. But the ROCKETS was better than the Knicks.
Yes he did. That 1994 team was fantastic.
@porterwake3898 if you consider that a Great squad... That says it all. He had some solid squads. He never had a great team. He never even had a legit second star outside Jackson who thank God they sent to Indiana
Rockets were strapped
The S tier guys with no rings are Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Stockton. Harden belongs way off this list because he didn't give a shit about defense. Harden doesn't win titles because he does not have the heart of a champion.
LMFAOOO you just talking out of your emotions, braindead
I see you. I think Harden could get to S tier though.
ah yes because Ewing and Barkley and Malone have the heart of champions LMAO, what a dumb comment
+ Barkley was wayy worse on Defense than Harden
Love u guy
love u back
@ preesh unc
Jordan wore 45 correct
also russ is way closer to a ring currently
yeah, it was 45. Russ got a few more years too.
Patrick went to two?
He was injured for one of them 1999 I believe
@whatshorts He was, but he still helped them get to the finals so I do feel that pushes him more yk.
swap paul and stockton
nah I'll leave it be ;)
you're nuggets fan :O
day one
@whatshorts so awesome!! love from Serbia 🇷🇸🃏
🔥🔥🔥
🌶️
An MVP is equal to a Finals win. An MVP means you were one of the best players in the NBA, a Finals Championship win means you were on the best TEAM. There are really good players on championship winning teams that are not MVP caliber players.
I'll second that. I may switch my opinion though.
I cannot stand James Harden. Constant foul baiting to the point where the NBA had to change the rules. Look at how far his scoring has dropped since they stopped giving him those foul calls where he was the one actually initiating the contact. Also he's gotten older. One of my least favorite players of all time.😊
yeah, I'm ambivalent toward the playa