The other three had always planned to bag Pete. They only hired him because they needed a drummer to do gigs in Hamburg. He was the only person they could find quick enough who had a drum set.
Hay, her's an idea. How about Pete improve & learn to fit in (it doesn't sound like the young Beatles, wern't a bad bunch to hang around with & I have that Harrison sort of whit (quiet Beatle my ass), then they might have kept him.
@S G It's accurate. There's a clip here on TH-cam where John Lennon is saying exactly that. Do a search of "firing pete best" or "john lennon pete best" and you'll probably have no trouble finding the clip I'm referring to.
It goes a little further than that. They wanted someone who could also keep time. And Pete was the best (no pun intended) they could find. The guys had other drummers before Pete, but they weren't that good. So they got Pete and held onto him for 2 years. I would like to point out, "Love Me Do" is the only song I can hear Pete poorly performing in, and thus it also seems to be the only song I see people using against him. The song was recorded along with 2 others, "Ask Me Why" and "Besame Mucho". Sadly "Ask Me Why" was lost so only "Besame Mucho" and "Love Me Do" survived. If you listen to "Besame Mucho" from the EMI recordings, Pete is on point and carries the beat very well. You can find low quality live versions of "Ask Me Why" with Pete on drums, and he still carries the beat on a song considered by many to be one of the more complex early Beatles songs in terms of composition. So I wonder what the circumstances behind "Love Me Do" are, because I can't find any solid explanation behind it. Apart from the fact that it's the only song people use against Pete.
@@mattiemclean9882 I met Pete Best at an autograph session. Nice fellow. I didn't want to bring up the Beatles so I asked him about his mother, who set off space in her home for people to practice. Not too many mothers would have done that.
@@mattiemclean9882 He seems like a nice enough guy & quite articulate. But I don't like the poor pitiful me attitude (great song) & he was not suited to the band, dragging the whole show down (Showdown? which Lennon liked).
Anyone who plays drums would describe Pete's abilities and Amateurish. He just doesn't have a feel or ear of the more subtle aspects of drumming and Rhythm.
I met Pete Best in 1994 in Canada. A soft spoken and decent fellow. The Beatles were the opposite of him in personality. Ringo was a much better rock drummer.
Er, try playing 2 You Tube vids together. Sorry, in thr high chair, feeding time & no tantrums. I didn't need this video to see that the drumming is Funiculi - Funicula.
@@gutenbird Little imagination required (because he was). & any band wanting Pete rather than Ringo, in 1962. My advice is, don't waste your time, with that band.
@@gutenbird Mark Lewisohn is working on the most comprehensive history of The Beatles ever attempted. He listened to every single one of their recording sessions and read the logs that they keep at Abbey Road studios. You know how a band will stop a song because someone made a mistake? Lewisohn said that in 8 years worth of recording Ringo only screwed up quote "less than a dozen" times. Less than a dozen can be as little as one and as many as eleven. Let's assume Ringo made 11 mistakes. Do you know what that averages out to? It means that for 3 year Ringo made 2 mistakes per year and for 5 years he made 1 mistake per year. Bear in mind that The Beatles probably had at least 100 recording sessions and that a session could last an entire day. I've also read that Ringo's playing was so consistent from take to take that George Martin could easily patch together several takes of one song and it would sound like it was all from the same take.
if you care to find videos of pete drumming recently you will see he's as unmotivated a drummer now as he was then. pete was a stone around the beatle's neck and they knew it. ringo lit them right up. undeniable.
@@TheMerseySound1 he's a millionaire? how do you figure that? just because he's "famous" doesn't make him rich. he certainly never saw a nickel from the Beatles. and of course he can do what the fuck he wants. that wasn't my point. my point is "he sucks".
@@iselliotPete got a substantial payout in the millions from the Anthology series royalties, look it up. You're forgetting the guy is nearly 80 and plays one of the most physically demanding instruments in the world, obviously he's not going to be playing like he was in his prime. Considering he went to Hamburg three times, two recording auditions, two radio shows, a recording session, signed up with Brian Epstein and only missed four gigs which he gave advance notice for in his two years with the band, doesn't exactly sound like someone who was unmotivated.
Hard to believe people actually believe Bernard Purdy played on beatle records. When asked which Beatle records Bernard Purdie played on George Harrison said who is Bernard Purdie
I was trying to play an offbeat back beat by playing sixteenth notes and everything was going great until i got to the bridge and Pete's off beat drumming screwed me over. Nice one Pete
Rediculous analysis because as history shows the track Love Me Do had hardly been worked out, let alone played live. It didn't appear at the Decca audition months before, and the song had not been completed by the EMI audition in June 62, seems crazy that an unworked song was chosen for the "test audition" when other songs in the repertoire were so solid! The fact that the song had many "makeovers" before being released months later shows that maybe any good drummer could have worked out a suitable rhythm. After all, the Pete Best recording does highlight weakness in other musical areas which involved all the group. Very strange choice of song, lack of an arrangement, no time allowed, and a group who were on their last chance of being signed up! Rock and Roll folks👍
They were likely nervous about being in the studio, but it's also much more difficult to play and sing while the beat is constantly changing under you; half their attention was spent just on Pete's awful tempo.
This recording was a demo only. The Sept 4 & 11th recordings were used to make the record. The early one only on the single in the first few months & not again. I think the master of Sept 4 no longer exists & later releases on Raraties, Past Masters etc, came from a surviving record. I suspect the Beatles would have been more confident, had they had a decent drummer to prepare for these Decca & EMI demos. i.e. Pete likely nearly cost the Beatles a recoding contract. Even George Martin said (to Brian), "I'm sorry", but felt for him & threw him a lifeline. I hour in the studio.
@@johnsergei Pete's such a nice guy; I know he's not a perfect guy etc...but anybody sacked like he'd been, would have been, could have been, a total ass. He was pretty cool with it, and surely hurt. Because of that, I think all of us 'casual' Beatles Fans (that's what I am) are somewhat saddened by the way it went. But the fact may well be Pete was clearly an inferior drummer in comparison to Ringo. But Ringo is an outstanding drummer; that's the crux of the problem. In many instances John made it sound, and not only him, but others, as if Pete was simply awful. That's not the same thing as being in Ringo's league, is it? You seem to be suggesting Pete was a few levels down from Ringo. You know your Beatles better than me, and I guess I'd have to defer to your judgment.
Both versions are different tempos (performed with different speeds) so they are bound to go out of time with each other. Playing them side by side doesn't prove anything
One of the things that makes Ringo is having unique drum patterns. Songs like "Rain" or "Come Together" are so good because of Ringo's creativity. Pete couldn't have done that. He did a lot more than just provide a steady, reliable beat.
The Beatles would have existed, but history would be different. Please Please me would have been made the same as it was, only with a session player. But how would things change? The personality of the entire band would have been different so it's only logical that they would have grown in a different way. Probably not for the better. One way or another, Pete would have been out eventually.
I like how the is faster and then when they go right back to the final first the speed is basically the same as the first verse. To me that's a lot more interesting
the way I heard it Best calling in sick all the time meant Ringo sat in, the guys were impressed with Ringo's drumming but also his dedication: Ringo was always at the kit, ready to go.
Quite a bit of this tempo variation sounds very deliberate - and obviously the change to straight feel is no accident, though to my ears an ineffective choice that they did well to change.
When I’m in a Beatles tribute band, I’m gonna have Live Loops play for my ears. I know it wasn’t used in the 60s, but I’m warping the tempos to my favorite Beatles songs for covering.
I'd love to hear a comparison to Ringo's version and also Andy White. It would be neat to see who is more in time across all 3. My vote is for Ringo for timing and feel.
Andy White's version is the official one. They released Ringo's as the single in the UK by mistake. They also did the same on the 50th anniversary release, then released Andy's. Andy is using a superior Ludwig set of drums. Ringo went out and bought a Ludwig kit when he had the money.
In the "official" Andy White drummed version, the drums are OK, but real groove is in the tambourine. Just listen to it. Who is playing the tambourine? Ringo. Ringo may not be a brilliant technical drummer, but his tempo and groove were always excellent and distinctive.
It seems that Love Me Do the studio version with Ringo Starr has variations in tempo from 146 to 150. Well done Ringo, you win! Bear in mind that some of the best drummers, with amazing groove, had big variations in tempo too, John Bonham (Led Zeppelin) and the likes. In fact any rock song recorded up to the 90's, when they started using click tracks. So the test that plays two different verses at the same time is unfair, it's never going to work with a human drummer not playing to a click track.
Love me do isn't exactly a marvel of a song, it's pretty standard and I'm sure The Beatles felt that way years later. It's just at that particular time, they weren't really feeling the vibe of Pete, since he was the lone ranger and you can never have a rogue musician in a band, especially a drummer who's crucial.
Umm this isn't what it seams. There are 2 versions playing at the same time out of sync @ 1:11. This sounds purposely deceptive. There is no way they would be this out of sync with each other.
I'm not a musician so I wanted to see if I could hear the difference. I couldn't really tell in the beginning - but yeah, he did change the timing of the song. I can hear that.
Though I love The Beatles, I am not the type of fan that denies their humanity. I always though that he just didn’t click with the rest of the boys, that always when alone when the others lived on the same boot, that with the James Dean looks and knowing more German he had a better chance with the girls. Up till today. “Come on, their music is not so complex at first, so they don’t really need a super drummer”. Up till today. I am sad to admit, because I’m like always with underdog, but I have to admit Pete, at least at that time wasn’t capable... :(
@@coalcreeker583 impossible because she died in 1957 and Pete didnt join until 1959/60. Maybe his aunt Mimi was the one who got ipset but it wasnt Johns mum
@@ferdiahunt9899 Perhaps you are right. Thanks for the correction. All I really know is that both Ringo and Pete are more on time than I am. Speaking rhythmically AND going places.
@@coalcreeker583 No, she was dead. It was Paul's father who ripped Pete for getting to the bus late after a gig. Pete apologized, explaining he'd been held up by a mob of girls, tearing his clothes. Mr. McCartney then really lit into him, saying he should've come to get the other lads, that he was hogging all the attention. LOL What a jerk, Paul's old man was. smh
Interesting take on analysing the drumming of Pete Best , but you omit that both Pete Best and Ringo Starr were not first choices for this song , the EMI engineers weren't happy with either performance and the session drummer Andy White was called in to help with the problem. Mr Best has stated that his version of the track was "...not the final cut..." but shall we say an early "demo" attempt at the song , one he couldn't rectify as he was dropped suddenly , if one studies the history , Mr Starr was worried himself at this time since his drumming was also under scrutiny from the EMI engineers. My view is that if the Decca audition had been a success months before Mr Best would not have been dropped , but as the main goal was a record "deal" at all costs , he became the weak leak to the groups success , the rest is history.(Its a good read though!).
These days any fool with a drum kit can play on a record. Back in those days, drummers had to drum in a certain way in the recording studio. Don't ask me what the studio method is: I am not a drummer. What I can tell you that a lot of British bands would have a session drummer play on their early records, and the regular drummer would play on the later records when he had learned the studio wrinkles. There was - and maybe still is - a video on TH-cam where one of the EMI engineers - not Hurricane Smith, but the other guy - said that he was working with Pete Best, showing him what to do. But Pete Best just wasn't responding. As you say, Ringo was having trouble. I don't know whether Ringo had played in a studio before. Maybe not. Then they got Andy White. At the next session, Ringo knew what to do, and was ready to play. If they had kept Pete Best, Andy White would have still been playing on the Abbey Road album.
Well, I'd say that there is a caveat here. If you listen to solo guitar players, who are playing acoustically, they will oftentimes use dynamics and tempo changes for emphasis. At the apex of the chorus, where they sing "someone like you.... boom boom" this is a crecendo. Pete might have felt that the drama of the song needed a slight slow down to emphasize the next portion of the song. If I'm not mistaken, symphonies use tempo changes also, for emphasis and mood change. So, I wouldn't necessarily take this one example, and the conclusion drawn in the video, as an exact truth. I'd look a little further than just this example, and I'd look for context. It's also well known that there were rivalries within The Beatles, and there may be more to the story of why Pete was let go. If I remember right, Pete did miss some gigs, but I can't remember the context for those misses.
I doubt it. If they were the case. They would have rehearsed it that way. You can actually hear that the tempo and rhythm changes screwed everyone else up. You can hear in Paul’s flat vocals and pauses that he was getting lost and never sure of his entrances. If you are the drummer, it’s your job to maintain a steady rhythm as the foundation of the song. You are a rhythm instrument, not a lead or solo instrument. You don’t have the luxury of improvising random changes without screwing everything up. You have to consult the group, and you have to rehearse it.
As far as rivalries, the biggest rivalry was probably between Paul and John. They were constantly competing with each other, but they also respected each other’s talents enough to work together and maintain a strong partnership and friendship. If Pete best actually had a modicum of talent as a drummer, and he wasn’t such an unmotivated, stoic guy with a bad attitude, then they probably would have kept him despite any rivalry.
@@seanodonnell429 Your perception of Pete is interesting. I had the good fortune to meet Pete once, where I got a chance to talk to him one on one. Indeed, he seemed like a mellow fellow. He's very likable, and was very accomodating when talking with me about touring and the music biz (Including taking about my foray's in the music biz.) Yes, he didn't seem to have enough anger, or "edginess" to be on par with Lennon or McCartney. However a lot of sidemen (which is what he was, basically), like Bill Wyman and Charlie Watts are low key, team players. Pete is right along with these type of guys in their mellowness. About Pete's drumming, I can kind of speculate because I do my own drums on my recordings, but I'm no expert. So there is the caveat. If you play music, Sean, post a link, and I'll cheer you on. I especially like local talent (the other 99% of players.)
I’m not saying he was an unlikable guy. I didn’t know him personally. I’m saying you can tell by what he says in interviews that he had a chip on his shoulder. He seems to believe to this day that the Beatles fired him out of jealousy and he claims to be a better drummer than Ringo. Not a spec of humility in that attitude. Not once did he take any responsibility and say “You know, in retrospect, my drumming skills at the time really didn’t cut it. I couldn’t keep time. Good for Ringo for giving them what they needed.”
I like Pete as a person. But he could not keep time with a Rolex! Ringo (unfortunately for Pete) was a much better drummer. Pete did improve a lot in later years, but he still is garage band caliber at best!
Ringo was replaced by Andy White on "Love Me Do" also. Ringo may have evolved as a drummer (after all, it was his job) but at that time he was not much better than Best.
He was the best, they could find in a short time. Kaempfert wasn't interested in good performance, so he accepted Best's drumming. When Beatles came in contact with George Martin, the time was right, to get a better drummer.
@@danielgolus4600 How would we know? We know what Ringo's like because he got to play on all their songs and the interviews. Aside from a handful of tracks we don't know what Pete would have been capable of if he hadn't been kicked out. For all we know he could have been as equally inventive as Ringo
I heard a story though that at the Decca sessions, he was asked to keep a simple beat and the producers had other pro drummers come in after and to fill it up with interesting things later on after the Beatles became famous and they wanted to capitalize on releasing "Beatles" material
Nothing changed. Pete’s version was basically a demo of an early arrangement they used to play, which was slower with a rhythm change. Ringo even played Pete’s solo part almost identically in an early TV performance. The final version is quicker, has harmonica effects, no rhythm change and additional percussion.
The sound engineer at EMI during Pete's recording of, "Love Me Do", said that the problem was not with Pete's drumming, but rather that he was asked to play a new arrangement of the song he wasn't used to playing. Which makes me wonder if Pete was set-up for failure, sabotaged by the other members of the band.
I am a total drum neophyte (other than having been in bands and done my best to lock my bass in with the drummer) and even I can tell there are three different tempoes in this song, and none of the changes is intentional. Yes, I did say three - one during the verses, one during the bridge section, and a completely different one during the solo (where it should just have been the bridge pattern again.) It goes from a rock-ish shuffle to a total swing/waltz like pattern, to a SLOWER swing/waltz pattern, and back again. A complete mess. With this in mind, it's no wonder George Martin drafted in a professional, even AFTER Best had been replaced with Ringo - after THIS debacle, I can't blame him for taking no chances!
No click track,let’s see someone who was picked up the last minute,fairly new at drumming(he did play some,before)rush off to Hamburg,start playing right when they get there,long hours sailors throwing beers at you,drunks yelling out requests.Also isn’t it amazing how they packed the Club scene in Hamburg every night,(Pete being the drummer)also at the Cavern,and fellow musicians from Liverpool saying the sound was in Pete Bests Bass Drum,all this before Ringo.(and I like Ring also)don’t forget about the interview with Andy White session Drummer for Love me do track(not Ringo)saying Pete had a hard time learning a drum pattern Andy was showing him,then Andy said I guess Ringo would of had a hard time with it also.Plus Pete got most of the Chicks,big fan club for Pete,around the Cavern.
Can you link the Andy White interview you mentioned? I know Ron Richards was asking Pete to play stuff and later said Ringo probably couldn't either, but I didn't think Andy White was present?
And what happened to Pete post-Beatles? He joined Lee Curtis and the All Stars, a nothing group. Eventually formed The Pete Best Band, which covered Lennon-McCartney songs. If Pete was such a talent, why did he see no success post 1962?
If that's true, there's probably a point where they tried to get Ringo to do the same thing. Maybe that's when George Martin put his foot down and told him to play the same rhythm the whole song.
Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other, so the video doesn't prove anything other than showing they are different speeds
@@pianozach1 1 January 1962 was the Decca audition, not EMI audition. Pete’s version was basically a demo of an early arrangement they used to play, which was slower with a rhythm change. Ringo played Pete’s solo part almost identically in an early TV performance. By comparison the final version is quicker, has harmonica effects, no rhythm change and additional percussion. Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other, so the video doesn't prove anything other than showing they are different speeds
One more thing,I was watching another video that claimed that Pete was playing drums on a early version of I saw her standing there.Everyone was doing the same as here in the comments he stinks as a drummer,his timing is off bla bla bla etc.Until a couple of people in that comment section,did there homework,and proved that it was actually Ringo playing the drums not Pete,because Pete was already fired and gone.how do you like me know armchair drumming experts.not that it means anything but I used to play drums,now I play guitar,and the band that I got together I used an ametuer drummer,who was getting fairly decent.i didn’t want a pro drummer with his name on the Bass Drum instead of the bands name,because they overplay and argue too much and have massive egos,Only exception is Keith Moon he plays the whole kit with a passion without any tempo problems,overplaying making every bit of it fit The Who’s music like a perfect fitting shoe.
Ringo was the *4th* to be offered the job. They never wanted Ringo at any cost. Even after offering Ringo the job, they approached Johnny Hutch. Look at Utube, search on Norman Smith the sound engineer present at en time. He said Best was fine, it was what they were telling him to do. Vocals were originally by John Lennon. then George Martin told Paul to sing it, who had never sang it previously. The whole song as work in progress. Also Pete's drum kit was clapped out.
If a baseball team traded its catcher for a better one and then won the World Series, few would claim he got a raw deal. They would call it a great swap.
How come no mention of the drummer on the actual release of Love Me Do? Not Pete obviously. Not even Starkey who played tambourine. Martin not happy with Ringo either so he brought in one Andy White an EMI session drummer. Later when they were in the Abbey Road studios recording their first British LP ( album ) once again Andy White was enlisted as Starkey was not up to the job. In later years Lennon put the groups drumming in perspective with his infamous quote the Beatles had the best drummer in the group and it was not Ringo!!! He was referring to Paul .
Hmm, I just checked and there are differences, but I wouldn't call them "drastic". I would say they fit into the "inherent margin of error" I describe in the video.
Lol.. Pete was given a change in the arrangement he had been playing.. To go in cold learning music you have never played combined with avoiding falling back into the more comfortable you had been playing is quite difficult. In addition these tracks you are "Matching up" are in totally different parts of the song.. Not sure what point you are trying to make there...
Also don’t forget Ringo saying to someone when Andy White took his place for Love me do,because he was already scheduled for that session to replace Pete(Ringo had to sit aside at the session,he just joined,)saying to his fellow musicians one night,I hope they don’t do what they did to Pete,to me next.Look it all up.
Maybe, but Ringo didn't need the Beatles. He would never have been as famous but he was a high end drummer who could have played in other bands for years. He was a serious professional unlike Pete Best was was riding coattail.
@@gutenbird Pete was a professional as The Beatles were a full-time professional band. Ringo with Rory Storm And The Hurricanes who were semi-pro, wasn't a professional until he joined The Beatles. He wasn't even considered in the same league as Pete and the other top local drummers at the time. With the band Pete went to Hamburg three times, two recording auditions, two radio shows, a recording session, signed up with Brian Epstein and only missed four gigs which he gave advance notice for in his two years with the band. Doesn't exactly sound like someone who wasn't serious or riding coattails.
@@TheMerseySound1 Pete had been in a band but from my understanding couldn’t play much until he actually joined the Beatles in Hamburg. At that time they were quite desperate and needed a drummer or they would not be allowed to play. While the others were very serious about their craft, Pete was not considered as serious or as quick as the others. The other 3 had been putting in many hours for several years before Pete shower up. As far as Ringo, he had played drums from a very young age. Also, Pete had the habit of missing lots of gigs. This rubbed the others the wrong way. It was this missing that eventually led them to using Ringo so often. And it was George Martin who was not happy with Pete’s playing and pretty much sealed Pete’s fate with the Beatles. I know that Martin wasn’t exactly thrilled with Ringo at first but Pete simply was not on the same level as the others.
@@gutenbird I haven't seen anything regarding Pete's ability before he went to Hamburg or when he actually started playing. The band was actually more of a hobby than a serious venture until Pete joined. Gigs for the band were quite irregular due to difficulty finding and keeping drummers and not being very good band at the time. John had already thought about joining the merchant navy or going to Ireland to escape National Service since he was of age to be conscripted. www.rte.ie/entertainment/2015/0814/721279-john-lennon-planned-to-dodge-army-with-move-to-ire/#:~:text=The%20young%20John%20Lennon%20planned,of%20the%20USA%20in%201964 _Pete had the habit of missing lots of gigs_ That's not true whatsoever. Pete missed *four* gigs with The Beatles and gave the band advance notice on each occasion, so it wasn't a regular problem. He proved it in court when he sued them for libel in the 60s. There's no way of knowing what Pete could have been capable of if he had stayed. He was in the band when they Rock & Roll based which isn't exactly challenging music, whereas Ringo was enabled and required to push his drumming limits with each increasingly progressive album over the decade. Before the shakeup Ringo and Pete were playing similar material, so it's not like they had very different musical backgrounds to build from.
@@TheMerseySound1 Okay. I’m sure the Beatles would know a bit more on whether Pete was a good enough drummer. No way they would have been as successful musically without Ringo. Pete sounded like every other drummer. His drumming isn’t bad but it dominates rather than blends into the mix. Pete could hit the drums but didn’t listen to the other players. It’s not even debatable except you feel sorry for the guy. Good thing for the world that Pete was canned.
Wenn das kein Fake ist...im Internet ist alles möglich..and I meet pete best in Hamburg. Als Statue, near the other fab four, 2meter from them..For the Pik, my husband is,,standing to him ,, ,,there's a place,, lg Ellen ✌ ❤
@@playtilithertz bro, drum machines were not well seen at that time, AT ALL A drums machine was only from practice or stuff like that Also, you can't have drum machines in live performances. Live performances were EVERYTHING
Well, drummers are suppose to keep time as good as they possibly can (most great drummers can, Ringo can very good!). And not wander from 126 to 150 bpm in one short song. Granted, they only human, but still a good drummer wouldn't float around from 126 to 150 bpm.
Pete’s version was basically a demo of an early arrangement they used to play, which was slower with a rhythm change. Ringo played Pete’s rhythm change almost identically in an early TV performance. By comparison the final version is quicker, has harmonica effects, no rhythm change and additional percussion. Playing the original slower arrangement next to the quicker released version is obviously going to make them go out of time, so what were you trying to prove?
Pete’s version was basically a demo of an early arrangement they used to play, which was slower with a rhythm change. Ringo played Pete’s solo part almost identically in an early TV performance. By comparison the final version is quicker, has harmonica effects, no rhythm change and additional percussion. Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other, so the video doesn't prove anything other than showing they are different speeds
Yeesh. That was really bad. I still don't see how people can defend Pete. John Lennon stated the only reason he got into the Beatles in the first place was because they needed a drummer for the gig in Hamburg, and they were always gonna dump him once they found a better drummer. And going by this example, clearly he simply was not a very good drummer. I can't imagine how he would have fared on some of the more complex songs the band would have come up with.
@@wreckim I'd say he wasn't horrible but he wasn't good enough. He never was a first choice drummer for the rest of the Beatles. Perhaps playing live it didn't matter that much. Especially in Hamburg playing 10 hours a day in front of drunken Germans or at Cavern with screaming Liverpudlian girls but when you're at studio this inconsistency is pretty much distinctive. He wasn't bad at Tony Sheridan recordings in 1961 but still he didn't really shine. And also the rest wanted to evolve in their music and style. What I remember reading I think Pete really didn't. And it's also about chemistry between band members. They probably felt that Ringo suited the band better. But I agree that they handled the whole sacking situation really badly.
Here's some info you probably didn't know. Pete’s version was basically a loose demo of an early arrangement they used to play, which was slower with a rhythm change. It was never intended for release. Ringo played Pete’s solo part almost identically in an early TV performance. By comparison the final version is quicker, has harmonica effects, no rhythm change and additional percussion. Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other, so the video doesn't prove anything other than showing they are different speeds. _I can't imagine how he would have fared on some of the more complex songs the band would have come up with_ That's the thing we have no idea what Pete could have been capable of. Ringo was playing similar Rock & Roll material with Rory Storm and the Hurricanes and then moved to increasingly progressive material which pushed his limits as a drummer over the decade.
this is not accurate. a swung tempo vs a straight will give you these results. perhaps not the 130+ to 150+ discrepancy but some for sure. does anyone know if they were drinking during the demo recording? a buzzed drummer will do this as well. secondly, its about writing. these guys obviously diddn't tell him or he was given full freedom in which case he chose wrong/different. i witnessed a video comparing the recordings of both him and ringo which failed to point out that you are going from under produced demo recordings to album quality recording. another mistake.
btw, this shit isn't hard to play. none of it. if they were gigging with him and recording, this was a personality issue. they didn't get along at that time.
You're right, furthermore the video proves nothing. Pete’s version is a slower with an intentional rhythm change and the final version has a quicker tempo. Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other, so the video doesn't prove anything other than showing they are different speeds.
In all fairness pete best has stated that he was playing 8 hrs a day 6 nights a week whilst they were in hamburg and that is what made them such a tight and powerful force. So with all this practice beforehand it's hardly surprising his hide was hung up to dry, and all that he claims must be taken with a pinch of salt. There's videos of pete playing here on TH-cam, after another 30 or so years practice and they've got 2 drummers in the band and the mic on petes kit is turned down low. Pete is just the face to draw in beatles fanatics. I've seen another with him playing my bonnie, but Paul McCartney voice can clearly be heard in the mix as well as the singer whose singing along with Tony Sheridans original vocals
You would probably bust Ringo’s drumming too- George Martin didn’t want to use Pete on the first record which is really why they dumped him- George also didn’t like Ringos drumming so they called in Andy White to play on Love me do and PS I love you- Ringo had to play the Tambourine on those songs. George Martin was just used to session musicians and perfect timing, It cost Pete his job but not Ringo,
No drummer can keep perfect time without using a click track . My bet is that pete never used one when recording so the timing will be off . Drummers are human , not robots
Ummm…. that’s not how it works. You don’t rely on the click to set the time; you rely on your metronome practice over the years to ensure your time is good. Then when you play to a click track, it’s less you playing ‘to’ the click than you playing ‘with’ the click.
The problem with this is... Ringo can, at least in studio where it counts. He has near-perfect tempo, and only in the longer takes stuff like Helter Skelter - Take 2 can you finally notice inconsistencies, and that's because he's not really trying, only letting the others experiment and play.
@@Gk2003m Exactly, rehearsing with a metronome builds up muscle memory around consistent tempo, so when you get in the studio, or you're just rehearsing, your timing will be much more solid. And yeah, if you're playing with a backing track, or sequencer, or recording in a studio, you'll probably be playing with a click, but as you said, you're playing 'with' the click', and not so much 'to the click'. The metronome becomes more like road signs on a highway, just a background hit to make sure you don't stray.
He was an amateur rockabilly-drummer. The only reason The (Pre-)Beatles took him was cause he was a good-looking poser who attract some attention.Especially at the female part of the audience
By that logic Ringo was also an amateur rockabilly-drummer since he started the same way and was playing very similar stuff with Rory Storm And The Hurricanes, just like everyone else in Liverpool was playing the same kind of material... The Beatles needed a drummer to get to Hamburg and they got Pete at the last minute. Using him to attract attention wasn't the first thought when they recruited him, it was a bonus because it helped build their early fanbase.
It seems more issue with the type of beat that’s being played rather than a tempo issue. It’s obviously different from what’s on the record. This is an off beat which doesn’t really sound well with the song as we’re used to hearing it played. You can be a great drummer and still get fired. For example Steve Smith from Journey. Steve Perry didn’t like how he played on Raised on Radio album so he fired him. Are you kidding me. That man can play anything blindfolded.
I’m convinced it was not just his Drum Playing, it was issues with the fact he didn’t socialise when in Hamburg, he was the favourite with the girls, didn’t conform, Ringo was a better player , but they (John Paul & Goerge) were out of order in kicking him out without dealing with it themselves.
@@brianparker663 No, only on Past Masters Vol 1 you can hear Ringo. The single release was definitely Andy White, and Ringo played tambourine. You can distinguish them by tambourine or no tambourine.
@@supersonicsroots No no really. Sorry but you are wrong and it is a common misunderstanding. Watch this video for the full story:- th-cam.com/video/fJf2y8gOQH4/w-d-xo.html I promise you - the original single, as issued in the UK, was Ringo's take. That's the very reason it appears (as you rightly say) on Past Masters - although they had to remaster it from a perfect original pressing, the tape having been lost or destroyed by then.
@@brianparker663 So all the books like The Complete Beatles and The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions and The Beatles themselves were all wrong? Ringo himself stated that it was White on the released version. "Initial copies of the single had Starr on drums, though the Andy White version became the preferred version from the release of the Beatles Hits EP on 6 September 1963" from here: www.beatlesbible.com/songs/love-me-do/2/
@@supersonicsroots Well exactly! You've answered your own question. "Initial copies of the single had Starr on drums"...So what are you disagreeing about? The Ringo pressing lasted up till early 1964 and it is why those early pressings are now valuable. Please watch the video I referred you to or there's no point continuing this conversation. I am just trying, in a constructive way, to disabuse a fellow Beatles fan of a commonly held (but erroneous) belief.
he's a nice guy who couldn't quite fit in socially or musically. if the other guys were uncomfortable with him but kept him on it would have been unending turmoil. best to end it and move on. they could've been nicer about it, but nobody owed pete a thing. if george martin had not taken a liking to the beatles they'd likely have broken up before too long, and who knows what would've happened to them? ringo might have wound up drumming with gerry and the pacemakers, paul joining badfinger or the searchers, george playing guitar with cilla black. anything could've happened. people break up - it happens in life, love and rock and roll. listening to the pete best band is a little like when i saw credence clearwater revisited - there were two guys from the original band, but they hadn't written any of the hits and they didn't sing them. i told myself that night that they're a credence tribute band with a pretty good rhythm section. pete was part of a tribute group that does some early beatles songs okay. nothing wrong with that - playing music is playing music.
This John Sergei dude is reminding me of those angry fans when Ringo replaced Pete lol. Never seen someone so caring over a... Mediocrely bad drummer? He had potential, he just didn't hit it. At all.
What's Pete done since? Sung Poor Pitiful Me ever since. The other Beatles, might have become successful, without the Beatles. Ringo was already there @ a local level. But Pete, even with the Beatles legacy, did nothing.
Wow - thank God they got Ringo on board (whoelse) - also the change from shuffle to straight eights on the bridge feels weird. It’s also interesting to hear how tame this version is compared to the official release and as the saying goes: no band is better than its drummer.
Ringo played Pete's solo part almost identically in an early TV performance of 'Love Me Do'. Pete's version was basically a demo of a slower early arrangement
To the average listeners this does not matter too much. But to the band itself, this lack of consistency and steady rhythm is equal to having heart palpitations and difficulty in breathing!
Aaron Krerowicz has a very good point here. Pete Best's drumming for the song "Love Me Do" was way below the competent level. Ringo Starr on the other hand was able to keep the time tempo perfect on the song, "Love Me Do", even though record producer, George Martin was not particularly impressed with his playing. Getting back to Pete Best, I think that he has come a long way and improved on his drumming, including keeping in time with the music, even though he may never be in the same league as Ringo. Best wishes to both drummers.
The tempo is really bad, but two notes: 1. The pattern is completely different from what Andy White did. During his recording Ringo simply tried to recreate. 2. What we can hear in the middle eight is truly daring and exciting though poorly performed. I'd really love to hear a version where these ideas come in place. I really don't know what to think about Pete Best's drumming: the problem with his tempo isn't that evident on other recordings. He used a lot snares and hi-hats, while others complained he used to much bass. It's a pity we can't hear more of what they were really like.
Pete takes a bad rap, IMO. The live (drums) recordings from Germany sound very powerful to my ears. Yes, Ringo was definitely better, at least for the Beatles, but outside of this video -admittedly bad, Pete was not a bad drummer.
Assuming you're speaking about the Star Club recordings, those are Ringo on drums, not Pete. The only decent recordings with Pete were the Decca demos and as Aaron correctly points out his drumming was extremely erratic. When the Beatles saw and heard Ringo around the same time with the Hurricanes in Hamburg they must have known instinctively that this was the kind of drummer they really needed. Pete may not have been a bad drummer but he certainly wasn't a good one, either. Take it from me. I'm a drummer.
@@iselliot Agreed. I think Pete had a limited proficiency of the rudiments, and may have lacked confidence in his execution and technique as a result. Which is why his drum work during his Beatles days often sounds so weak and unimaginative. Blah fills. Though even with his limited drum vocabulary, he could play on-tempo for the most part.
I completely agree. Pete was rated as one of the best drummers in Liverpool and even had imitators of his playing style at the time. Ringo was pushed by Lennon-McCartney songs to be inventive with his drumming over the decade and came up with some great parts. We don't know what Pete would have been capable of he had stayed and had the same opportunities
This analysis is rubbish.The stark differences in rhythm highlighted in this video do not appear in the Pete Best version! The Pete Best version highlights 2 rhythms ( not apparent in the Ringo and Andy White versions) , these are the signature rhythm , ( more or less played by all 3 drummers) , but in the Pete Best version he changes to the ride cymbal for the middle 8. The transition is smooth , the off-beat consistent , the Pete Best version is like a "demo" , the drums thin , but more defined than the commercial recording which seems to keep the motif beat constant , (move to the ride hardly audible). This analysis is a muddle by a non musical ear.
You're right! Pete’s version was basically a loose demo of an early arrangement they used to play, which was slower with a rhythm change. It was never intended for release. Ringo played Pete’s solo part almost identically in an early TV performance. By comparison the final version is quicker, has harmonica effects, no rhythm change and additional percussion. Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other, so the video doesn't prove anything other than showing they are different speeds.
@@TheMerseySound1 Their career was on the line in this session. If Pete thought it was time for a loose demo during this audition, he should have been fired for incredibly poor judgment of the situation. Demo or not (post-hoc rationalizing by Pete?) they needed to impress. Pete downright stunk on this take. Bear in mind he'd played drums professionally for 2 years and hundreds of hours on stage in Hamburg. And he turns in this? Loose demo, my rear end. Ringo was and is far, far better.
Aaron maybe, as you contend, Pete was an amateurish drummer, however most people don’t understand that it is the job of the bass player to set and keep time. The drummer’s role is to keep time with the bass player and to provide a rhythmic complement to that.
I don't know about other bands but how my band works is that the drums hold the beat along with the bass but drums have a higher authority. So if the drums speed up, i (the bass player) speed up to match the drums then the rest of the band follows. However my drummer (and most good drummers) is not this out of control. And if we don't have drums then i become the beat.
You cannot be serious. The drummer is ALWAYS the time keeper. I'm a drummer myself, so I should know... That being said, everyone has some responsibility to keep the tempo steady, but the bass player has never been the primary timekeeper. The bass player is there to hold down the low end and round out the sound sonically speaking, so it doesn't sound thin as well as lock in with the drums to bridge the gap between the rhythm and the rest of the music
Pete was just creative for example like Ginger Baker . I'm sick of the pete best sucked that everyone accepts without finding out about whether it is true, partly true or false .
Well, it's true. The Decca recordings are an example of how he played the same drum pattern for every song and had no sense of timing. He wasn't a good drummer.
i'm not sure people just say pete was bad without listening properly and looking into it. i've heard pete, ringo and andy whites version of love me do and pete was by far the worst. andy's version was smoothest
The other three had always planned to bag Pete. They only hired him because they needed a drummer to do gigs in Hamburg. He was the only person they could find quick enough who had a drum set.
Hay, her's an idea. How about Pete improve & learn to fit in (it doesn't sound like the young Beatles, wern't a bad bunch to hang around with & I have that Harrison sort of whit (quiet Beatle my ass), then they might have kept him.
@S G It's accurate. There's a clip here on TH-cam where John Lennon is saying exactly that. Do a search of "firing pete best" or "john lennon pete best" and you'll probably have no trouble finding the clip I'm referring to.
@@johnsergei One of the things John complained about was that Pete Best never improved. He used those exact words.
@S G Yes its accurate because everybody has seen the same documentary where John Lennon explained the Pete Best situation
It goes a little further than that. They wanted someone who could also keep time. And Pete was the best (no pun intended) they could find. The guys had other drummers before Pete, but they weren't that good. So they got Pete and held onto him for 2 years. I would like to point out, "Love Me Do" is the only song I can hear Pete poorly performing in, and thus it also seems to be the only song I see people using against him. The song was recorded along with 2 others, "Ask Me Why" and "Besame Mucho". Sadly "Ask Me Why" was lost so only "Besame Mucho" and "Love Me Do" survived. If you listen to "Besame Mucho" from the EMI recordings, Pete is on point and carries the beat very well. You can find low quality live versions of "Ask Me Why" with Pete on drums, and he still carries the beat on a song considered by many to be one of the more complex early Beatles songs in terms of composition. So I wonder what the circumstances behind "Love Me Do" are, because I can't find any solid explanation behind it. Apart from the fact that it's the only song people use against Pete.
Pete's drumming is "consistently inconsistent". LOL!🥨
As if having lived his whole life with what could have been, he now has the whole TH-cam community taking the piss out of him. Nice. Bunch of c#nts
@@mattiemclean9882 I met Pete Best at an autograph session. Nice fellow. I didn't want to bring up the Beatles so I asked him about his mother, who set off space in her home for people to practice. Not too many mothers would have done that.
@@mattiemclean9882 He seems like a nice enough guy & quite articulate. But I don't like the poor pitiful me attitude (great song) & he was not suited to the band, dragging the whole show down (Showdown? which Lennon liked).
@@Cissy2cuteOh im sure most mothers would facilitate their son if they had the means....
His version was a demo of an early arrangement of the song
It's not only the rythm itself, it's also the inconsistent loudness of the drums.
Anyone who plays drums would describe Pete's abilities and Amateurish. He just doesn't have a feel or ear of the more subtle aspects of drumming and Rhythm.
@@DrowseProductions and if you believe this video I have an island for sale😂thats available just for you😆
@@slooky14what?
@@creeperkiller9795 I'm sorry if you think this is the recording made with Pete Best and the Beatles, its obvious its manipulated
Pete Best- a drummer they didn't want and Bernard Purdie- a drummer they never had.
Ringo is the man.
Bernie Purdie was a piece of shit.
@@meatwad1 meith koon
@@arzufbkz6099 LOL!
@@meatwad1 Purdie was on drums what Paulhino de Costa was on percussion :-)
bernard purdie is one of the greatest drummers of his generation. he also happens to be full of shit but his drumming skills are undeniable.
I met Pete Best in 1994 in Canada. A soft spoken and decent fellow. The Beatles were the opposite of him in personality.
Ringo was a much better rock drummer.
Now let's hear the same analysis of Ringo doing the same song.
Er, try playing 2 You Tube vids together. Sorry, in thr high chair, feeding time & no tantrums.
I didn't need this video to see that the drumming is Funiculi - Funicula.
Supposedly Ringo was an extremely consistent drummer.
@@gutenbird Little imagination required (because he was).
& any band wanting Pete rather than Ringo, in 1962. My advice is, don't waste your time, with that band.
@@gutenbird Mark Lewisohn is working on the most comprehensive history of The Beatles ever attempted. He listened to every single one of their recording sessions and read the logs that they keep at Abbey Road studios. You know how a band will stop a song because someone made a mistake? Lewisohn said that in 8 years worth of recording Ringo only screwed up quote "less than a dozen" times. Less than a dozen can be as little as one and as many as eleven. Let's assume Ringo made 11 mistakes. Do you know what that averages out to? It means that for 3 year Ringo made 2 mistakes per year and for 5 years he made 1 mistake per year. Bear in mind that The Beatles probably had at least 100 recording sessions and that a session could last an entire day. I've also read that Ringo's playing was so consistent from take to take that George Martin could easily patch together several takes of one song and it would sound like it was all from the same take.
Keith Novinski interesting. Not sure exactly how someone could count mistakes but it’s nice to hear that opinion.
That’s why Andy White played on the record.
if you care to find videos of pete drumming recently you will see he's as unmotivated a drummer now as he was then. pete was a stone around the beatle's neck and they knew it. ringo lit them right up. undeniable.
When Gina joined the Go Gos on drums, that’s when they tightened up and took off.
He's a millionaire and can play for fun when he wants, who gives a fuck?
@@TheMerseySound1 he's a millionaire? how do you figure that? just because he's "famous" doesn't make him rich. he certainly never saw a nickel from the Beatles. and of course he can do what the fuck he wants. that wasn't my point. my point is "he sucks".
@@iselliotPete got a substantial payout in the millions from the Anthology series royalties, look it up. You're forgetting the guy is nearly 80 and plays one of the most physically demanding instruments in the world, obviously he's not going to be playing like he was in his prime.
Considering he went to Hamburg three times, two recording auditions, two radio shows, a recording session, signed up with Brian Epstein and only missed four gigs which he gave advance notice for in his two years with the band, doesn't exactly sound like someone who was unmotivated.
@@TheMerseySound1 well, goody for him. ill go back under my rock where i never have to listen to pete best.
Hard to believe people actually believe Bernard Purdy played on beatle records. When asked which Beatle records Bernard Purdie played on George Harrison said who is Bernard Purdie
I was trying to play an offbeat back beat by playing sixteenth notes and everything was going great until i got to the bridge and Pete's off beat drumming screwed me over.
Nice one Pete
you must be a terrible drummer because if your following this piece of music you would understand that someone manipulated it
Rediculous analysis because as history shows the track Love Me Do had hardly been worked out, let alone played live.
It didn't appear at the Decca audition months before, and the song had not been completed by the EMI audition in June 62, seems crazy that an unworked song was chosen for the "test audition" when other songs in the repertoire were so solid!
The fact that the song had many "makeovers" before being released months later shows that maybe any good drummer could have worked out a suitable rhythm.
After all, the Pete Best recording does highlight weakness in other musical areas which involved all the group.
Very strange choice of song, lack of an arrangement, no time allowed, and a group who were on their last chance of being signed up! Rock and Roll folks👍
But many things about this recording were inferior...the voices, the harmonizing, the tone etc...not just the drumming.
True. Which is why George Martin had the boys record it again three months later. This time with Ringo and session drummer Andy White.
They were likely nervous about being in the studio, but it's also much more difficult to play and sing while the beat is constantly changing under you; half their attention was spent just on Pete's awful tempo.
This recording was a demo only. The Sept 4 & 11th recordings were used to make the record. The early one only on the single in the first few months & not again. I think the master of Sept 4 no longer exists & later releases on Raraties, Past Masters etc, came from a surviving record.
I suspect the Beatles would have been more confident, had they had a decent drummer to prepare for these Decca & EMI demos.
i.e. Pete likely nearly cost the Beatles a recoding contract. Even George Martin said (to Brian), "I'm sorry", but felt for him & threw him a lifeline. I hour in the studio.
@@johnsergei Pete's such a nice guy; I know he's not a perfect guy etc...but anybody sacked like he'd been, would have been, could have been, a total ass. He was pretty cool with it, and surely hurt. Because of that, I think all of us 'casual' Beatles Fans (that's what I am) are somewhat saddened by the way it went. But the fact may well be Pete was clearly an inferior drummer in comparison to Ringo. But Ringo is an outstanding drummer; that's the crux of the problem. In many instances John made it sound, and not only him, but others, as if Pete was simply awful. That's not the same thing as being in Ringo's league, is it? You seem to be suggesting Pete was a few levels down from Ringo. You know your Beatles better than me, and I guess I'd have to defer to your judgment.
Both versions are different tempos (performed with different speeds) so they are bound to go out of time with each other. Playing them side by side doesn't prove anything
Goin' by this the Beatles would never have happened if Pete got staying with them
They would have, except Pete probably wouldn't have been on the first record because Ron Richards wanted a session drummer
One of the things that makes Ringo is having unique drum patterns. Songs like "Rain" or "Come Together" are so good because of Ringo's creativity. Pete couldn't have done that. He did a lot more than just provide a steady, reliable beat.
@@TheMerseySound1 No they wouldn't have. They wouldn't have had even 1 song in the top 10 ever
The Beatles would have existed, but history would be different. Please Please me would have been made the same as it was, only with a session player. But how would things change? The personality of the entire band would have been different so it's only logical that they would have grown in a different way. Probably not for the better. One way or another, Pete would have been out eventually.
At least he got some royalties out of his short stint.
I like how the is faster and then when they go right back to the final first the speed is basically the same as the first verse. To me that's a lot more interesting
the way I heard it Best calling in sick all the time meant Ringo sat in, the guys were impressed with Ringo's drumming but also his dedication: Ringo was always at the kit, ready to go.
I think the rush from Solo to Verse 4 was an arrangement at that time. Speed up in the solo and return to the slow tempo in the verse.
Quite a bit of this tempo variation sounds very deliberate - and obviously the change to straight feel is no accident, though to my ears an ineffective choice that they did well to change.
When I’m in a Beatles tribute band, I’m gonna have Live Loops play for my ears. I know it wasn’t used in the 60s, but I’m warping the tempos to my favorite Beatles songs for covering.
I'd love to hear a comparison to Ringo's version and also Andy White. It would be neat to see who is more in time across all 3. My vote is for Ringo for timing and feel.
Andy White's version is the official one. They released Ringo's as the single in the UK by mistake. They also did the same on the 50th anniversary release, then released Andy's. Andy is using a superior Ludwig set of drums. Ringo went out and bought a Ludwig kit when he had the money.
In the "official" Andy White drummed version, the drums are OK, but real groove is in the tambourine. Just listen to it. Who is playing the tambourine? Ringo. Ringo may not be a brilliant technical drummer, but his tempo and groove were always excellent and distinctive.
I don't know why but I like Pete best I wasn't impressed in his drumming but I still like him comment for Pete best and the beatles
It seems that Love Me Do the studio version with Ringo Starr has variations in tempo from 146 to 150. Well done Ringo, you win! Bear in mind that some of the best drummers, with amazing groove, had big variations in tempo too, John Bonham (Led Zeppelin) and the likes. In fact any rock song recorded up to the 90's, when they started using click tracks. So the test that plays two different verses at the same time is unfair, it's never going to work with a human drummer not playing to a click track.
It ought to be noted Pete and Ringo's versions are both in different tempos, so they are bound to go out of time with each other
Love me do isn't exactly a marvel of a song, it's pretty standard and I'm sure The Beatles felt that way years later. It's just at that particular time, they weren't really feeling the vibe of Pete, since he was the lone ranger and you can never have a rogue musician in a band, especially a drummer who's crucial.
Unless your name is Jaki Liebezeit
click tracks were already being done in the '70's.
Speeding up is way more forgivable than dragging, tho.. especially in rock music.
Very good analysis.
I will be getting the new books soon.
LOL
Umm this isn't what it seams. There are 2 versions playing at the same time out of sync @ 1:11. This sounds purposely deceptive. There is no way they would be this out of sync with each other.
I'm not a musician so I wanted to see if I could hear the difference. I couldn't really tell in the beginning - but yeah, he did change the timing of the song. I can hear that.
Pete Best: “Hey, I’m just sittin’ here”😊
Though I love The Beatles, I am not the type of fan that denies their humanity. I always though that he just didn’t click with the rest of the boys, that always when alone when the others lived on the same boot, that with the James Dean looks and knowing more German he had a better chance with the girls. Up till today. “Come on, their music is not so complex at first, so they don’t really need a super drummer”. Up till today. I am sad to admit, because I’m like always with underdog, but I have to admit Pete, at least at that time wasn’t capable... :(
Always WENT alone, I meant...
I’ve heard that John Lennon’s mom jumped on Pete for taking “All the attention”.
@@coalcreeker583 impossible because she died in 1957 and Pete didnt join until 1959/60. Maybe his aunt Mimi was the one who got ipset but it wasnt Johns mum
@@ferdiahunt9899
Perhaps you are right. Thanks for the correction. All I really know is that both Ringo and Pete are more on time than I am.
Speaking rhythmically AND going places.
@@coalcreeker583 No, she was dead. It was Paul's father who ripped Pete for getting to the bus late after a gig. Pete apologized, explaining he'd been held up by a mob of girls, tearing his clothes. Mr. McCartney then really lit into him, saying he should've come to get the other lads, that he was hogging all the attention. LOL What a jerk, Paul's old man was. smh
Interesting take on analysing the drumming of Pete Best , but you omit that both Pete Best and Ringo Starr were not first choices for this song , the EMI engineers weren't happy with either performance and the session drummer Andy White was called in to help with the problem. Mr Best has stated that his version of the track was "...not the final cut..." but shall we say an early "demo" attempt at the song , one he couldn't rectify as he was dropped suddenly , if one studies the history , Mr Starr was worried himself at this time since his drumming was also under scrutiny from the EMI engineers. My view is that if the Decca audition had been a success months before Mr Best would not have been dropped , but as the main goal was a record "deal" at all costs , he became the weak leak to the groups success , the rest is history.(Its a good read though!).
These days any fool with a drum kit can play on a record. Back in those days, drummers had to drum in a certain way in the recording studio. Don't ask me what the studio method is: I am not a drummer. What I can tell you that a lot of British bands would have a session drummer play on their early records, and the regular drummer would play on the later records when he had learned the studio wrinkles. There was - and maybe still is - a video on TH-cam where one of the EMI engineers - not Hurricane Smith, but the other guy - said that he was working with Pete Best, showing him what to do. But Pete Best just wasn't responding. As you say, Ringo was having trouble. I don't know whether Ringo had played in a studio before. Maybe not. Then they got Andy White. At the next session, Ringo knew what to do, and was ready to play. If they had kept Pete Best, Andy White would have still been playing on the Abbey Road album.
Yes. This Starr vs. Best becomes laughable when the version most commonly released was with Andy White on drums.
@@sircurtisseretse3297 Geoff Emerick is "the other guy"?
Well, I'd say that there is a caveat here. If you listen to solo guitar players, who are playing acoustically, they will oftentimes use dynamics and tempo changes for emphasis. At the apex of the chorus, where they sing "someone like you.... boom boom" this is a crecendo. Pete might have felt that the drama of the song needed a slight slow down to emphasize the next portion of the song. If I'm not mistaken, symphonies use tempo changes also, for emphasis and mood change. So, I wouldn't necessarily take this one example, and the conclusion drawn in the video, as an exact truth. I'd look a little further than just this example, and I'd look for context. It's also well known that there were rivalries within The Beatles, and there may be more to the story of why Pete was let go. If I remember right, Pete did miss some gigs, but I can't remember the context for those misses.
I doubt it. If they were the case. They would have rehearsed it that way. You can actually hear that the tempo and rhythm changes screwed everyone else up. You can hear in Paul’s flat vocals and pauses that he was getting lost and never sure of his entrances. If you are the drummer, it’s your job to maintain a steady rhythm as the foundation of the song. You are a rhythm instrument, not a lead or solo instrument. You don’t have the luxury of improvising random changes without screwing everything up. You have to consult the group, and you have to rehearse it.
As far as rivalries, the biggest rivalry was probably between Paul and John. They were constantly competing with each other, but they also respected each other’s talents enough to work together and maintain a strong partnership and friendship. If Pete best actually had a modicum of talent as a drummer, and he wasn’t such an unmotivated, stoic guy with a bad attitude, then they probably would have kept him despite any rivalry.
@@seanodonnell429 Your perception of Pete is interesting. I had the good fortune to meet Pete once, where I got a chance to talk to him one on one. Indeed, he seemed like a mellow fellow. He's very likable, and was very accomodating when talking with me about touring and the music biz (Including taking about my foray's in the music biz.) Yes, he didn't seem to have enough anger, or "edginess" to be on par with Lennon or McCartney. However a lot of sidemen (which is what he was, basically), like Bill Wyman and Charlie Watts are low key, team players. Pete is right along with these type of guys in their mellowness. About Pete's drumming, I can kind of speculate because I do my own drums on my recordings, but I'm no expert. So there is the caveat. If you play music, Sean, post a link, and I'll cheer you on. I especially like local talent (the other 99% of players.)
I’m not saying he was an unlikable guy. I didn’t know him personally. I’m saying you can tell by what he says in interviews that he had a chip on his shoulder. He seems to believe to this day that the Beatles fired him out of jealousy and he claims to be a better drummer than Ringo. Not a spec of humility in that attitude. Not once did he take any responsibility and say “You know, in retrospect, my drumming skills at the time really didn’t cut it. I couldn’t keep time. Good for Ringo for giving them what they needed.”
no
I like Pete as a person. But he could not keep time with a Rolex! Ringo (unfortunately for Pete) was a much better drummer. Pete did improve a lot in later years, but he still is garage band caliber at best!
Ringo was replaced by Andy White on "Love Me Do" also. Ringo may have evolved as a drummer (after all, it was his job) but at that time he was not much better than Best.
I kinda like that tempo change after the demo tho
Let's admit it: Best was NEVER the best drummer for the Beatles !
He was the best, they could find in a short time. Kaempfert wasn't interested in good performance, so he accepted Best's drumming.
When Beatles came in contact with George Martin, the time was right, to get a better drummer.
History proves Ringo was the far-better choice. Not just his drum style and technique, but also his personality.
Always thought that was Paul McCartney
@@danielgolus4600 How would we know? We know what Ringo's like because he got to play on all their songs and the interviews. Aside from a handful of tracks we don't know what Pete would have been capable of if he hadn't been kicked out. For all we know he could have been as equally inventive as Ringo
@@TheMerseySound1 Being an inventive drummer isn’t much use if you can’t keep time.
His drumming was much steadier during the Decca audition five months earlier. I wonder what changed?
I heard a story though that at the Decca sessions, he was asked to keep a simple beat and the producers had other pro drummers come in after and to fill it up with interesting things later on after the Beatles became famous and they wanted to capitalize on releasing "Beatles" material
Too much Jimbo?
Nothing changed. Pete’s version was basically a demo of an early arrangement they used to play, which was slower with a rhythm change. Ringo even played Pete’s solo part almost identically in an early TV performance.
The final version is quicker, has harmonica effects, no rhythm change and additional percussion.
Maybe he was nervous, or just didn't have his day.
The sound engineer at EMI during Pete's recording of, "Love Me Do", said that the problem was not with Pete's drumming, but rather that he was asked to play a new arrangement of the song he wasn't used to playing. Which makes me wonder if Pete was set-up for failure, sabotaged by the other members of the band.
I am a total drum neophyte (other than having been in bands and done my best to lock my bass in with the drummer) and even I can tell there are three different tempoes in this song, and none of the changes is intentional. Yes, I did say three - one during the verses, one during the bridge section, and a completely different one during the solo (where it should just have been the bridge pattern again.) It goes from a rock-ish shuffle to a total swing/waltz like pattern, to a SLOWER swing/waltz pattern, and back again. A complete mess.
With this in mind, it's no wonder George Martin drafted in a professional, even AFTER Best had been replaced with Ringo - after THIS debacle, I can't blame him for taking no chances!
How come I don't hear that bad timing on the anthology 1 cd that I have?
Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Starr: The Beatles
No click track,let’s see someone who was picked up the last minute,fairly new at drumming(he did play some,before)rush off to Hamburg,start playing right when they get there,long hours sailors throwing beers at you,drunks yelling out requests.Also isn’t it amazing how they packed the Club scene in Hamburg every night,(Pete being the drummer)also at the Cavern,and fellow musicians from Liverpool saying the sound was in Pete Bests Bass Drum,all this before Ringo.(and I like Ring also)don’t forget about the interview with Andy White session Drummer for Love me do track(not Ringo)saying Pete had a hard time learning a drum pattern Andy was showing him,then Andy said I guess Ringo would of had a hard time with it also.Plus Pete got most of the Chicks,big fan club for Pete,around the Cavern.
Pete Best sucked ass
Can you link the Andy White interview you mentioned? I know Ron Richards was asking Pete to play stuff and later said Ringo probably couldn't either, but I didn't think Andy White was present?
And what happened to Pete post-Beatles? He joined Lee Curtis and the All Stars, a nothing group. Eventually formed The Pete Best Band, which covered Lennon-McCartney songs. If Pete was such a talent, why did he see no success post 1962?
Could you do the Ringo version for comparison?
And the session drummer Andy White version also, recorded during the same Sept 1962 with new drummer Ringo Starr.
Surprisingly, apparently the solo beat was deliberate. They were trying to do a Twist best rhythm
I always liked that beat he does in the solo, but I also seem to remember he didn't really nail where to come in or out of it.
Sounds like a scrap truck, tumbling down a mountainside.
If that's true, there's probably a point where they tried to get Ringo to do the same thing. Maybe that's when George Martin put his foot down and told him to play the same rhythm the whole song.
@@FireMinstrel Ringo plays it almost the same in an early TV performance
Wow Aaron great work here!
Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other, so the video doesn't prove anything other than showing they are different speeds
As Ringo said in an interview, about recording with Jeff Lynne, "I am the f***** click."
I don't buy this, this tempo change is way to much
Oh, it's true. This recording of Love Me Do was made January 1, 1962. th-cam.com/video/e3Oc67FdcpY/w-d-xo.html
You can literally do this test by yourself. And he even put a metronome at the end so you can hear Pete's drumming is all out of tempo.
Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other. This video doesn't prove anything
@@pianozach1 1 January 1962 was the Decca audition, not EMI audition.
Pete’s version was basically a demo of an early arrangement they used to play, which was slower with a rhythm change. Ringo played Pete’s solo part almost identically in an early TV performance.
By comparison the final version is quicker, has harmonica effects, no rhythm change and additional percussion.
Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other, so the video doesn't prove anything other than showing they are different speeds
@@TheMerseySound1 Right Pete!
Some of this is valid, and some not so much. There is nothing that says you can't have tempo changes in songs, like between the solo and verse.
One more thing,I was watching another video that claimed that Pete was playing drums on a early version of I saw her standing there.Everyone was doing the same as here in the comments he stinks as a drummer,his timing is off bla bla bla etc.Until a couple of people in that comment section,did there homework,and proved that it was actually Ringo playing the drums not Pete,because Pete was already fired and gone.how do you like me know armchair drumming experts.not that it means anything but I used to play drums,now I play guitar,and the band that I got together I used an ametuer drummer,who was getting fairly decent.i didn’t want a pro drummer with his name on the Bass Drum instead of the bands name,because they overplay and argue too much and have massive egos,Only exception is Keith Moon he plays the whole kit with a passion without any tempo problems,overplaying making every bit of it fit The Who’s music like a perfect fitting shoe.
prove it
I've seen that thread, it's hilarious! lol
Pete was the best looking and they were JEALOUS. End of story. Jealous much? You’re all jealous.
Not of his drumming...
Too bad looks don't come through on record, eh? 😜
@@calebsankey6945 😆
Ringo was the *4th* to be offered the job. They never wanted Ringo at any cost. Even after offering Ringo the job, they approached Johnny Hutch. Look at Utube, search on Norman Smith the sound engineer present at en time. He said Best was fine, it was what they were telling him to do. Vocals were originally by John Lennon. then George Martin told Paul to sing it, who had never sang it previously. The whole song as work in progress.
Also Pete's drum kit was clapped out.
If a baseball team traded its catcher for a better one and then won the World Series, few would claim he got a raw deal. They would call it a great swap.
answer my question Aaron?
and why do I hear a computer voice? unless that is your voice Aaron Krerowicz? or did you manipulate your voice like you did the beat in that song?
This is misleading to non-musicians. t wouldn't be anywhere near as obvious at this. The middle is very strange though.
How come no mention of the drummer on the actual release of Love Me Do? Not Pete obviously. Not even Starkey who played tambourine. Martin not happy with Ringo either so he brought in one Andy White an EMI session drummer. Later when they were in the Abbey Road studios recording their first British LP ( album ) once again Andy White was enlisted as Starkey was not up to the job. In later years Lennon put the groups drumming in perspective with his infamous quote the Beatles had the best drummer in the group and it was not Ringo!!! He was referring to Paul .
Amen brother
That quote is always attributed to John but it’s been debunked, he’s never said such a thing. It was said by some DJ as a joke, I read about it.
Please do a video about the tempo on the drumming of the Please Please Me LP version of "Boys."
Upsiditus7 hmmm live never thought of the tempo on "boys" as particularly significant. What makes you say that song as opposed to any other?
The tempo changes very drastically. Granted, Ringo is also singing at the same time and I had to read it a book, but it's still true.
Hmm, I just checked and there are differences, but I wouldn't call them "drastic". I would say they fit into the "inherent margin of error" I describe in the video.
I'm sorry I meant significantly.
According to Jean-Michel Guesdon & Philippe Margotin, in their book "All The Songs," Boys changes from 150 to 140 quarter-notes per minute.
Its so hard! xD
I can tell Pete's drumming anywhere.
Yeah, it's called, "The Atom Beat"! It rocks!
Not that I favor Pete, but who ever said that a song’s tempo can’t change?
if it was written that way, this wasn't
the rhythm change was actually part of an early arrangement of the song
Lol.. Pete was given a change in the arrangement he had been playing.. To go in cold learning music you have never played combined with avoiding falling back into the more comfortable you had been playing is quite difficult.
In addition these tracks you are "Matching up" are in totally different parts of the song.. Not sure what point you are trying to make there...
Also don’t forget Ringo saying to someone when Andy White took his place for Love me do,because he was already scheduled for that session to replace Pete(Ringo had to sit aside at the session,he just joined,)saying to his fellow musicians one night,I hope they don’t do what they did to Pete,to me next.Look it all up.
Maybe, but Ringo didn't need the Beatles. He would never have been as famous but he was a high end drummer who could have played in other bands for years. He was a serious professional unlike Pete Best was was riding coattail.
@@gutenbird Pete was a professional as The Beatles were a full-time professional band. Ringo with Rory Storm And The Hurricanes who were semi-pro, wasn't a professional until he joined The Beatles. He wasn't even considered in the same league as Pete and the other top local drummers at the time.
With the band Pete went to Hamburg three times, two recording auditions, two radio shows, a recording session, signed up with Brian Epstein and only missed four gigs which he gave advance notice for in his two years with the band.
Doesn't exactly sound like someone who wasn't serious or riding coattails.
@@TheMerseySound1 Pete had been in a band but from my understanding couldn’t play much until he actually joined the Beatles in Hamburg. At that time they were quite desperate and needed a drummer or they would not be allowed to play. While the others were very serious about their craft, Pete was not considered as serious or as quick as the others. The other 3 had been putting in many hours for several years before Pete shower up. As far as Ringo, he had played drums from a very young age. Also, Pete had the habit of missing lots of gigs. This rubbed the others the wrong way. It was this missing that eventually led them to using Ringo so often. And it was George Martin who was not happy with Pete’s playing and pretty much sealed Pete’s fate with the Beatles. I know that Martin wasn’t exactly thrilled with Ringo at first but Pete simply was not on the same level as the others.
@@gutenbird I haven't seen anything regarding Pete's ability before he went to Hamburg or when he actually started playing.
The band was actually more of a hobby than a serious venture until Pete joined. Gigs for the band were quite irregular due to difficulty finding and keeping drummers and not being very good band at the time. John had already thought about joining the merchant navy or going to Ireland to escape National Service since he was of age to be conscripted. www.rte.ie/entertainment/2015/0814/721279-john-lennon-planned-to-dodge-army-with-move-to-ire/#:~:text=The%20young%20John%20Lennon%20planned,of%20the%20USA%20in%201964
_Pete had the habit of missing lots of gigs_
That's not true whatsoever. Pete missed *four* gigs with The Beatles and gave the band advance notice on each occasion, so it wasn't a regular problem. He proved it in court when he sued them for libel in the 60s.
There's no way of knowing what Pete could have been capable of if he had stayed.
He was in the band when they Rock & Roll based which isn't exactly challenging music, whereas Ringo was enabled and required to push his drumming limits with each increasingly progressive album over the decade.
Before the shakeup Ringo and Pete were playing similar material, so it's not like they had very different musical backgrounds to build from.
@@TheMerseySound1 Okay. I’m sure the Beatles would know a bit more on whether Pete was a good enough drummer. No way they would have been as successful musically without Ringo. Pete sounded like every other drummer. His drumming isn’t bad but it dominates rather than blends into the mix. Pete could hit the drums but didn’t listen to the other players. It’s not even debatable except you feel sorry for the guy. Good thing for the world that Pete was canned.
Wenn das kein Fake ist...im Internet ist alles möglich..and I meet pete best in Hamburg. Als Statue, near the other fab four, 2meter from them..For the Pik, my husband is,,standing to him ,, ,,there's a place,, lg Ellen ✌ ❤
?
If you want the drums to stay constant, get yourself a Drum MACHINE?..
I highly doubt they had drum machines back in 1962.
@@MrJett1971 actually they did
@@playtilithertz bro, drum machines were not well seen at that time, AT ALL
A drums machine was only from practice or stuff like that
Also, you can't have drum machines in live performances. Live performances were EVERYTHING
So no, this ain't got sense
Well, drummers are suppose to keep time as good as they possibly can (most great drummers can, Ringo can very good!). And not wander from 126 to 150 bpm in one short song. Granted, they only human, but still a good drummer wouldn't float around from 126 to 150 bpm.
Pete Worst.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_White_(drummer)
Love the Beatles and Ringo but I think Andy White played drums on 'Love me do'.
alan played on the album version and ringo played on the single. the version that has loud tambourine is alan white on drums
Wow. This is hilarious.
Steven Adler had this same problem. Got better when he sobered up. Bad drummers are a subtle but sound-making/destroying force.
But Adler's problem was the booze, not talent. His drums on "Appetite for Destruction" gave an extra groove that Matt Sorum never had.
Do the same experiment with Ringo's Love Me DO version; seems only fair.
Pete’s version was basically a demo of an early arrangement they used to play, which was slower with a rhythm change. Ringo played Pete’s rhythm change almost identically in an early TV performance.
By comparison the final version is quicker, has harmonica effects, no rhythm change and additional percussion.
Playing the original slower arrangement next to the quicker released version is obviously going to make them go out of time, so what were you trying to prove?
The ringo version isn’t in this video smart guy
@@distortsequel Never said it was. I only mentioned a Ringo TV performance
This has to be a prank: nobody could sound that inept. Its a fairly simple drum pattern.
Sounds like Pete was the big drinker of the band?
"Come on, back on the seat Pete" as they help him up.
Pete’s version was basically a demo of an early arrangement they used to play, which was slower with a rhythm change. Ringo played Pete’s solo part almost identically in an early TV performance.
By comparison the final version is quicker, has harmonica effects, no rhythm change and additional percussion.
Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other, so the video doesn't prove anything other than showing they are different speeds
@@TheMerseySound1 You don't understand: the Best recording is compared with itself, not another version!
@@jespercervin9618 This video literally plays both versions on top of each other and you’re telling me they’re not being compared????
@@TheMerseySound1 Different bars of the same recording are playing simultaneously.
Yeesh. That was really bad. I still don't see how people can defend Pete. John Lennon stated the only reason he got into the Beatles in the first place was because they needed a drummer for the gig in Hamburg, and they were always gonna dump him once they found a better drummer. And going by this example, clearly he simply was not a very good drummer. I can't imagine how he would have fared on some of the more complex songs the band would have come up with.
But they kept him for TWO YEARS! I mean, that seems impossible with a HORRIBLE drummer.
@@wreckim I'd say he wasn't horrible but he wasn't good enough. He never was a first choice drummer for the rest of the Beatles. Perhaps playing live it didn't matter that much. Especially in Hamburg playing 10 hours a day in front of drunken Germans or at Cavern with screaming Liverpudlian girls but when you're at studio this inconsistency is pretty much distinctive. He wasn't bad at Tony Sheridan recordings in 1961 but still he didn't really shine. And also the rest wanted to evolve in their music and style. What I remember reading I think Pete really didn't. And it's also about chemistry between band members. They probably felt that Ringo suited the band better. But I agree that they handled the whole sacking situation really badly.
Here's some info you probably didn't know.
Pete’s version was basically a loose demo of an early arrangement they used to play, which was slower with a rhythm change. It was never intended for release. Ringo played Pete’s solo part almost identically in an early TV performance.
By comparison the final version is quicker, has harmonica effects, no rhythm change and additional percussion.
Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other, so the video doesn't prove anything other than showing they are different speeds.
_I can't imagine how he would have fared on some of the more complex songs the band would have come up with_
That's the thing we have no idea what Pete could have been capable of. Ringo was playing similar Rock & Roll material with Rory Storm and the Hurricanes and then moved to increasingly progressive material which pushed his limits as a drummer over the decade.
this is not accurate. a swung tempo vs a straight will give you these results. perhaps not the 130+ to 150+ discrepancy but some for sure. does anyone know if they were drinking during the demo recording? a buzzed drummer will do this as well. secondly, its about writing. these guys obviously diddn't tell him or he was given full freedom in which case he chose wrong/different. i witnessed a video comparing the recordings of both him and ringo which failed to point out that you are going from under produced demo recordings to album quality recording. another mistake.
btw, this shit isn't hard to play. none of it. if they were gigging with him and recording, this was a personality issue. they didn't get along at that time.
You're right, furthermore the video proves nothing. Pete’s version is a slower with an intentional rhythm change and the final version has a quicker tempo.
Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other, so the video doesn't prove anything other than showing they are different speeds.
In all fairness pete best has stated that he was playing 8 hrs a day 6 nights a week whilst they were in hamburg and that is what made them such a tight and powerful force.
So with all this practice beforehand it's hardly surprising his hide was hung up to dry, and all that he claims must be taken with a pinch of salt.
There's videos of pete playing here on TH-cam, after another 30 or so years practice and they've got 2 drummers in the band and the mic on petes kit is turned down low.
Pete is just the face to draw in beatles fanatics.
I've seen another with him playing my bonnie, but Paul McCartney voice can clearly be heard in the mix as well as the singer whose singing along with Tony Sheridans original vocals
poor best
You would probably bust Ringo’s drumming too- George Martin didn’t want to use Pete on the first record which is really why they dumped him- George also didn’t like Ringos drumming so they called in Andy White to play on Love me do and PS I love you- Ringo had to play the Tambourine on those songs. George Martin was just used to session musicians and perfect timing, It cost Pete his job but not Ringo,
Pete Worst
lol Savage
This is the one track the Beatles allowed to be published. Let's hear the others. Or are we supposed they made only one take?
Are you seeking justice for Pete? 🤣
@@supersonicsroots No. For me.
1:43 sounded alright for a sec
its a shame they did not get lars ulrich
Ehmm Most people won't even recognize 2 - 4 beats per minute tempo change. The solo sounds like it is intentionally faster.
No drummer can keep perfect time without using a click track . My bet is that pete never used one when recording so the timing will be off . Drummers are human , not robots
Ummm…. that’s not how it works. You don’t rely on the click to set the time; you rely on your metronome practice over the years to ensure your time is good. Then when you play to a click track, it’s less you playing ‘to’ the click than you playing ‘with’ the click.
The problem with this is... Ringo can, at least in studio where it counts. He has near-perfect tempo, and only in the longer takes stuff like Helter Skelter - Take 2 can you finally notice inconsistencies, and that's because he's not really trying, only letting the others experiment and play.
@@Gk2003m Exactly, rehearsing with a metronome builds up muscle memory around consistent tempo, so when you get in the studio, or you're just rehearsing, your timing will be much more solid.
And yeah, if you're playing with a backing track, or sequencer, or recording in a studio, you'll probably be playing with a click, but as you said, you're playing 'with' the click', and not so much 'to the click'. The metronome becomes more like road signs on a highway, just a background hit to make sure you don't stray.
He was an amateur rockabilly-drummer. The only reason The (Pre-)Beatles took him was cause he was a good-looking poser who attract some attention.Especially at the female part of the audience
Com on? I'm sure that was on their mind when they were being booked @ Hamberg & had no drummer.
By that logic Ringo was also an amateur rockabilly-drummer since he started the same way and was playing very similar stuff with Rory Storm And The Hurricanes, just like everyone else in Liverpool was playing the same kind of material...
The Beatles needed a drummer to get to Hamburg and they got Pete at the last minute. Using him to attract attention wasn't the first thought when they recruited him, it was a bonus because it helped build their early fanbase.
The bridge has an intentional change, no?
Yes it was an intentional part of the early arrangement, Ringo even played it this way in an early TV performance
@@TheMerseySound1 I'll be honest, I think it's great
he doesnt play with a metro ome i guess
It seems more issue with the type of beat that’s being played rather than a tempo issue. It’s obviously different from what’s on the record. This is an off beat which doesn’t really sound well with the song as we’re used to hearing it played. You can be a great drummer and still get fired. For example Steve Smith from Journey. Steve Perry didn’t like how he played on Raised on Radio album so he fired him. Are you kidding me. That man can play anything blindfolded.
I’m convinced it was not just his Drum Playing, it was issues with the fact he didn’t socialise when in Hamburg, he was the favourite with the girls, didn’t conform, Ringo was a better player , but they (John Paul & Goerge) were out of order in kicking him out without dealing with it themselves.
John, Paul, and George could not have been jealous of Pete when they were swimming in "birds."
And thus, the need for Ringo Starr.
Probably Ringo is best drummer....But honestly I enjoy listening to Pete's version of love me do also
George Martin was unhappy with Ringo's version so session musician Andy White did it for the single.
not so. the original pressings featured Starr's take.
@@brianparker663 No, only on Past Masters Vol 1 you can hear Ringo. The single release was definitely Andy White, and Ringo played tambourine. You can distinguish them by tambourine or no tambourine.
@@supersonicsroots No no really. Sorry but you are wrong and it is a common misunderstanding. Watch this video for the full story:- th-cam.com/video/fJf2y8gOQH4/w-d-xo.html I promise you - the original single, as issued in the UK, was Ringo's take. That's the very reason it appears (as you rightly say) on Past Masters - although they had to remaster it from a perfect original pressing, the tape having been lost or destroyed by then.
@@brianparker663 So all the books like The Complete Beatles and The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions and The Beatles themselves were all wrong? Ringo himself stated that it was White on the released version. "Initial copies of the single had Starr on drums, though the Andy White version became the preferred version from the release of the Beatles Hits EP on 6 September 1963" from here:
www.beatlesbible.com/songs/love-me-do/2/
@@supersonicsroots Well exactly! You've answered your own question. "Initial copies of the single had Starr on drums"...So what are you disagreeing about? The Ringo pressing lasted up till early 1964 and it is why those early pressings are now valuable. Please watch the video I referred you to or there's no point continuing this conversation. I am just trying, in a constructive way, to disabuse a fellow Beatles fan of a commonly held (but erroneous) belief.
1:42
This is reggaeton
he's a nice guy who couldn't quite fit in socially or musically. if the other guys were uncomfortable with him but kept him on it would have been unending turmoil. best to end it and move on. they could've been nicer about it, but nobody owed pete a thing. if george martin had not taken a liking to the beatles they'd likely have broken up before too long, and who knows what would've happened to them? ringo might have wound up drumming with gerry and the pacemakers, paul joining badfinger or the searchers, george playing guitar with cilla black. anything could've happened. people break up - it happens in life, love and rock and roll. listening to the pete best band is a little like when i saw credence clearwater revisited - there were two guys from the original band, but they hadn't written any of the hits and they didn't sing them. i told myself that night that they're a credence tribute band with a pretty good rhythm section. pete was part of a tribute group that does some early beatles songs okay. nothing wrong with that - playing music is playing music.
Ringo nearly ended up playing bass with Gerry And The Pacemakers
This John Sergei dude is reminding me of those angry fans when Ringo replaced Pete lol. Never seen someone so caring over a... Mediocrely bad drummer? He had potential, he just didn't hit it. At all.
What's Pete done since? Sung Poor Pitiful Me ever since.
The other Beatles, might have become successful, without the Beatles. Ringo was already there @ a local level. But Pete, even with the Beatles legacy, did nothing.
But Pete was HaWt!!
Wow - thank God they got Ringo on board (whoelse) - also the change from shuffle to straight eights on the bridge feels weird. It’s also interesting to hear how tame this version is compared to the official release and as the saying goes: no band is better than its drummer.
Ringo played Pete's solo part almost identically in an early TV performance of 'Love Me Do'. Pete's version was basically a demo of a slower early arrangement
To the average listeners this does not matter too much. But to the band itself, this lack of consistency and steady rhythm is equal to having heart palpitations and difficulty in breathing!
Aaron Krerowicz has a very good point here. Pete Best's drumming for the song "Love Me Do" was way below the competent level. Ringo Starr on the other hand was able to keep the time tempo perfect on the song, "Love Me Do", even though record producer, George Martin was not particularly impressed with his playing. Getting back to Pete Best, I think that he has come a long way and improved on his drumming, including keeping in time with the music, even though he may never be in the same league as Ringo. Best wishes to both drummers.
The tempo is really bad, but two notes: 1. The pattern is completely different from what Andy White did. During his recording Ringo simply tried to recreate. 2. What we can hear in the middle eight is truly daring and exciting though poorly performed. I'd really love to hear a version where these ideas come in place.
I really don't know what to think about Pete Best's drumming: the problem with his tempo isn't that evident on other recordings. He used a lot snares and hi-hats, while others complained he used to much bass. It's a pity we can't hear more of what they were really like.
the tempo is bad because Aaron maipulated it
Pete takes a bad rap, IMO. The live (drums) recordings from Germany sound very powerful to my ears. Yes, Ringo was definitely better, at least for the Beatles, but outside of this video -admittedly bad, Pete was not a bad drummer.
Assuming you're speaking about the Star Club recordings, those are Ringo on drums, not Pete. The only decent recordings with Pete were the Decca demos and as Aaron correctly points out his drumming was extremely erratic. When the Beatles saw and heard Ringo around the same time with the Hurricanes in Hamburg they must have known instinctively that this was the kind of drummer they really needed. Pete may not have been a bad drummer but he certainly wasn't a good one, either. Take it from me. I'm a drummer.
@@iselliot Agreed. I think Pete had a limited proficiency of the rudiments, and may have lacked confidence in his execution and technique as a result. Which is why his drum work during his Beatles days often sounds so weak and unimaginative. Blah fills. Though even with his limited drum vocabulary, he could play on-tempo for the most part.
I completely agree. Pete was rated as one of the best drummers in Liverpool and even had imitators of his playing style at the time.
Ringo was pushed by Lennon-McCartney songs to be inventive with his drumming over the decade and came up with some great parts. We don't know what Pete would have been capable of he had stayed and had the same opportunities
@@TheMerseySound1 You guys should listen to 94MikeJ--he knows the score.
I get what they are saying but in reality if you did this with Keith Moon, it would be a nightmare. Its not all about tempo.
Listen to led zeppelin. It’s called the human element. It makes music groovy.
Yeeeah... I can get down to this man
This analysis is rubbish.The stark differences in rhythm highlighted in this video do not appear in the Pete Best version!
The Pete Best version highlights 2 rhythms ( not apparent in the Ringo and Andy White versions) , these are the signature rhythm , ( more or less played by all 3 drummers) , but in the Pete Best version he changes to the ride cymbal for the middle 8.
The transition is smooth , the off-beat consistent , the Pete Best version is like a "demo" , the drums thin , but more defined than the commercial recording which seems to keep the motif beat constant , (move to the ride hardly audible).
This analysis is a muddle by a non musical ear.
You're right! Pete’s version was basically a loose demo of an early arrangement they used to play, which was slower with a rhythm change. It was never intended for release. Ringo played Pete’s solo part almost identically in an early TV performance.
By comparison the final version is quicker, has harmonica effects, no rhythm change and additional percussion.
Both versions are different tempos so they are bound to go out of time with each other, so the video doesn't prove anything other than showing they are different speeds.
@@TheMerseySound1 Their career was on the line in this session. If Pete thought it was time for a loose demo during this audition, he should have been fired for incredibly poor judgment of the situation. Demo or not (post-hoc rationalizing by Pete?) they needed to impress. Pete downright stunk on this take. Bear in mind he'd played drums professionally for 2 years and hundreds of hours on stage in Hamburg. And he turns in this? Loose demo, my rear end. Ringo was and is far, far better.
Lies.
Fake News.
Not a real recording.
Barf!
Aaron maybe, as you contend, Pete was an amateurish drummer, however most people don’t understand that it is the job of the bass player to set and keep time. The drummer’s role is to keep time with the bass player and to provide a rhythmic complement to that.
I don't know about other bands but how my band works is that the drums hold the beat along with the bass but drums have a higher authority. So if the drums speed up, i (the bass player) speed up to match the drums then the rest of the band follows. However my drummer (and most good drummers) is not this out of control. And if we don't have drums then i become the beat.
You cannot be serious. The drummer is ALWAYS the time keeper. I'm a drummer myself, so I should know... That being said, everyone has some responsibility to keep the tempo steady, but the bass player has never been the primary timekeeper. The bass player is there to hold down the low end and round out the sound sonically speaking, so it doesn't sound thin as well as lock in with the drums to bridge the gap between the rhythm and the rest of the music
Pete was just creative for example like Ginger Baker . I'm sick of the pete best sucked that everyone accepts without finding out about whether it is true, partly true or false .
I wouldn't say he sucked (though he's a need on this recording specifically), but I would say Ringo was the better drummer.
Ginger Baker had great time. Pete didn't.
Well, it's true. The Decca recordings are an example of how he played the same drum pattern for every song and had no sense of timing. He wasn't a good drummer.
Ringo had talent, Best did not. Simple as that.
i'm not sure people just say pete was bad without listening properly and looking into it. i've heard pete, ringo and andy whites version of love me do and pete was by far the worst. andy's version was smoothest
What a load on nonsense. Do the same thing for Twist and Shout with Ringo and see how much that matches up. It won't.
I'm a drummer and just tried that. Ringo's timing is spot on, the whole way through