Again, I completely ignored the "increase falls damage" aspect of their 10th level ability. The fact that you're constantly forcing fall damage is amazing. It just seems to work together so well. You make me realize I suck at optimization.
just a note cause i don't recall treantmonk mentioning this but as your up your intelligence you can actually prepare more artificer spells than you originally start with at level 1 since artificers run of intelligence like wizards so to does their prepared spells limit
I like these combos, quite surprised by how fun the graviturgist sound. As most of these dunamancy spells don't require concentration, are good options while keeping the concentration of the old staples.
I just love the image that you create of this wizard who is casting spells and throwing people around the battlefield into their prepared traps. And on a side note they are also creating small devices that could become helpful on the battlefield and elsewhere. And unseen servant in the middle of all of this is just hilarious to me.
I was a little surprised in the previous video that you didn't take ray of frost early on, tbh. With a build centered around controlling movement, reducing movement speed by 10 feet seems perfectly fitting.
I think the best 4th-level concentration option for this build might actually be Storm Sphere -- not only does it do enough AOE bludgeoning damage to be mentioned under "it adds up," you get a bonus action lightning attack essentially for free as long as there's an enemy within 60 feet of the sphere's center on your turn. No single damage roll for this spell is likely to be *amazing* in isolation, but in practice it's a 40-foot-diameter sphere of difficult terrain, nested within a 120-foot-diameter sphere of your wizard getting a consistent use for their bonus action with no additional resource cost.
These higher level spells I feel really start to pull, pun intended, the build together. I’m really looking forward to part 4 and seeing how everything looks on a battle map.
I have thought about reflavoring sleet storm for the graviturgist, as it shares soe features of the graviturgy spells, but is over a huge area at a low level.
I'm trying to work out how to combine the graviturgist with repelling blast. You could get 15 ft of movement multiple times a turn which would obviously be very effective. The issue is it becomes a bit mad and you wouldn't get those all important constitution saving throws. Plus you would be behind on spell progression.
Joseph Webley I don’t think it’s worth it RAW. You might be allowed graviturgy spells without being a Wizard (eg sorcerer or warlock), or it can be worth it to check with your DM if you can make an Intelligence-based Warlock. A generous rules interpretation could allow a Magic Missile (with Gravity Well) to act close to a repelling blast. You can also make a good character that manipulates the battlefield and enemy movement without this subclass. Two levels for a great cantrip with the wrong spell casting ability won’t be worth it. However if you have a party member that would like to play a warlock you can join forces and have a great time.
Nils Jonsson Magic missile would only work with gravity well using the if the targeted creatures were willing. Magic missile involves no attack roll or saving throw.
@@nilsjonsson4446 Well the advantage of EB is that because you get multiple attack rolls by the time you should still be able to hit multiple times which would trigger what you wanted to use the EB for in the first place but yeah I can't really think of a way to make it particularly effective. At least not without losing con save.
Should be pointed out that this is the tier of the game that you can upcast Immovable object at a level that no one is reasonably moving it good for capturing foes.
Is there a possible grappler buid possible to give yet another way to move enemies in and out of effects? I love the idea of a grappler spellcaster but I'm not sure if it would be effective enough.
@@TreantmonksTemple I've got a half elf barbarian, level 3. I'm bored to tears with him mechanically but attached to the character. Any ideas how I could massage him into more of a spellcasting class? A big part of his character concept is his net and trident. What would synergise well with nets? The DM will allow me to retcon his starting stats.
@@Domina7ion I would consider going a level in Warlock and then into Sorcerer. You can make use of spells like Armor of Agathys and Fire Shield even when in rage (since they don't use concentration) and they punish enemies for attacking you - which you can encourage with path of the ancestral guardian.
If you're using thorn whip to pull an enemy near one of your allies and then move them away from that allie using gravity well, your Allie gets an opportunity attack, right?
no. AoO's only trigger on using some sort of action to move, such as your movement, dashing, or a reaction to move. Which makes dissonant whispers particularly mean if you can get a baddy surrounded.
Why not use sickening radiance? Seems quite feasible to have them making 3 saves within 2 rounds, and even if they only fail 2 their speed is halved. If they fail all three, they have disadvantage on attacks and saves, at which point they're basically out of combat
I made a character that has 2 levels of eldrich blast instead of artificer in order to get repelling blast/lance of lethargy eldrich blast as well as the tentacle ability drom great ild one to lower their speel further. Combined with my warlock party member and enemies cant get near us
My apologies Chris, I misread the errata :( They talked about moving the spell's AoE onto the creature's space wasn't intented to instigate the saving throw (for example by moving Spirit Guardians as you move). What you are suggesting - moving the creature into the AoE - is encouraged as smart play! Here's the link: dnd.wizards.com/articles/sage-advice/sage-advice-compendium Page 16 where it references Moonbeam PS. I deleted the previous comment to avoid confusing people. Apologies again PS2. Oh and again thank you for uploading more videos during the quarantine, it really helps fight off boredom 😊
Re Gravity Well: "do AoE spells target?", is the question. And does Gravity Well need to target the creature? The wording is unclear, more so that Voice of Authority say. It mentions a target, but is that the target of the spell or the (or a) target of the effect? Furthermore, if AoE's are relevant to Gravity Well, can Gravity Well be used on several creatures with the same spell? "Cast a spell on *a* creature [...] move *the* target". It's so unclearly worded, and all I can hope is that One D&D uses less "natural language" and more defined terms.
Voice of Authority is absolutely clear. When you cast a spell with a spell slot and another condition is targeting. Ongoing effects don’t apply. You hve to consume spell slot and targtet creature. Gravity Well is, as you said, unclear, because the people that wrote it are well known for making unclear wordings and making the idea of RAW hard to follow
Should have commented on the last video but Matt Mercer seems to intend that dunamancy is what is a separate practice and not necessarily shared to other Wizards. So it's not necessarily true that gravaturgists and chronogist wizards cant share any spells.
RAW gravity well only triggers when you target a creature. Magnify gravity and also pulse wave don't target a creature so you don't get to proc gravity well. It's wording is very restrictive and keeps you from doing useful combos. For example I can't move an enemy 3 times when I hit him with 3 different eldritch blast because I only cast one spell
You would be correct if the wording would’ve said something like “when you target a creature with a spell” rather than this bs “whenever you cast a spell on a creature” . Yeah I literally casted fireball on it, cuz the creature is in the area, my fireball is in the area, so my fireball is on the creature which became affected by my fireball. So RAW it doesn’t say that. You might draw that conclusion from other wordings or if uou ask the creator of the feature, but otherwise, it’s unclear if we speak about “RAW”
Typically I, at least to some small degree, get the basis of my character ideas from an anime character I like. For this build I base it off of Shiro from No Game No Life. High int (of course) and I just play chess with the battlefield. Thematically the game set I'm proficient with is Dragon Chess.
I'd be interested in workshopping a Graviturgist that drops 2 levels into warlock to pick up Eldritch Blast with the Repelling Blast and Grasp of Hadar invocations, when combined with the Gravity well effect you have a huge diversity of possible move locations, say Y is You and E is the enemy, a hit with EB could move them to any of the following locations with no save. XXOOOXX XXOOOXX XXOOOXX XXOEOXX XXOOOXX XXOOOXX XXOOOXX Up to 100 feet here XXXYXXX And that's before you account for multiple hits with EB or the ability to reposition yourself at other angles. It's also a cantrip and requires no concentration, so you can combine it with other effects, zones and the like.
Newbie here so take it easy on me if this sounds crazy. I was just watching your video on "Find Familiar" (and sorry off topic) but since you are sharing what seams to be a pretty profound telepathic bond with your familiar celestial, fey or fiend familiar. And we could assume they have a vast knowledge of the world. Could he possibly know all the beast and elemental and share his knowledge with you so you could as a Druid, Wildshape into anything that's available in the MManual without much experience yourself?
I like all of the AOE control spells HOWEVER you said that this build relies a lot on your team; like knocking enemies prone for your melee attackers. Don't all of these spells also stop your melee attackers from doing much too seeing as, unless you're able to move the enemy to the edge of the spell, your teammates are trying to cross difficult terrain while trying to not fall prone?
you can also isolate a single/some monsters away from the party. That's also part of the battefield control. Isolating a boss from it's minions can be very helpful
Hi Treantmonk, thanks for the vid. Wondering how you interpret the text of Gravity Well. It says "whenever you cast a spell on a creature,". Would you not assume that this refers to spells that only target a creature? So no AoE ones? It goes on refering to "the target" (singular) leaving no option open for multiple targets, which an AoE spell could have.
Hey treantmonk, will you ever do a review on pathfinder 2E? I found it extremely interesting with the action economy and having more feats and stuff, but haven't tried it myself.
Hey Chris me and my group are starting a new campaign tomorrow and I'm looking at playing a war cleric. What are your thoughts on taking two levels of fighter and going war cleric the rest? Or is it a better call to go straight war cleric. This campaign will likely stretch into the 12-15th level and maybe beyond
@@TreantmonksTemple i thought you said in the video: "when i do this on d&d beyond, it wont let me do this", but you were able to, sorry, must have mis understood. Was when you were talking about the dunemancy first level spell
@@TreantmonksTemple hey man im sorry about keep bothering you. You seem pretty knowlegable, i was wondering if other than robe of the archmage, any way to raise dc for a wizard in wotc content?
This build was always fun and it got just so much better when Vortex Warp came up
I like that this class is built in a way that the class abilities work really well with the graviturgy spells
oliver neville especially if you consider that access to the graviturgy spells can be seen as another class feature by itself.
Am I the only one who stuggle at making this subclass work?
It needs overcomplicated strategies to get mid tier effects
I love the idea behind this character. You're pushing and pulling people all over the battlefield. Really amazing build.
Again, I completely ignored the "increase falls damage" aspect of their 10th level ability. The fact that you're constantly forcing fall damage is amazing. It just seems to work together so well. You make me realize I suck at optimization.
The best optimizers lean on the community.
just a note cause i don't recall treantmonk mentioning this but as your up your intelligence you can actually prepare more artificer spells than you originally start with at level 1 since artificers run of intelligence like wizards so to does their prepared spells limit
I like these combos, quite surprised by how fun the graviturgist sound. As most of these dunamancy spells don't require concentration, are good options while keeping the concentration of the old staples.
I just love the image that you create of this wizard who is casting spells and throwing people around the battlefield into their prepared traps. And on a side note they are also creating small devices that could become helpful on the battlefield and elsewhere. And unseen servant in the middle of all of this is just hilarious to me.
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
a mud pit with a gravity well at its bottom and a wall of force capping it sounds, uh, deadly.
I was a little surprised in the previous video that you didn't take ray of frost early on, tbh. With a build centered around controlling movement, reducing movement speed by 10 feet seems perfectly fitting.
I think the best 4th-level concentration option for this build might actually be Storm Sphere -- not only does it do enough AOE bludgeoning damage to be mentioned under "it adds up," you get a bonus action lightning attack essentially for free as long as there's an enemy within 60 feet of the sphere's center on your turn. No single damage roll for this spell is likely to be *amazing* in isolation, but in practice it's a 40-foot-diameter sphere of difficult terrain, nested within a 120-foot-diameter sphere of your wizard getting a consistent use for their bonus action with no additional resource cost.
These higher level spells I feel really start to pull, pun intended, the build together. I’m really looking forward to part 4 and seeing how everything looks on a battle map.
>Takes Bigby's Hand over Wall of Force
Who are you and what have you done to Treantmonk?!
Ransom note to follow...
I have thought about reflavoring sleet storm for the graviturgist, as it shares soe features of the graviturgy spells, but is over a huge area at a low level.
I'm trying to work out how to combine the graviturgist with repelling blast. You could get 15 ft of movement multiple times a turn which would obviously be very effective.
The issue is it becomes a bit mad and you wouldn't get those all important constitution saving throws. Plus you would be behind on spell progression.
Joseph Webley I don’t think it’s worth it RAW. You might be allowed graviturgy spells without being a Wizard (eg sorcerer or warlock), or it can be worth it to check with your DM if you can make an Intelligence-based Warlock. A generous rules interpretation could allow a Magic Missile (with Gravity Well) to act close to a repelling blast. You can also make a good character that manipulates the battlefield and enemy movement without this subclass.
Two levels for a great cantrip with the wrong spell casting ability won’t be worth it. However if you have a party member that would like to play a warlock you can join forces and have a great time.
Nils Jonsson
Magic missile would only work with gravity well using the if the targeted creatures were willing. Magic missile involves no attack roll or saving throw.
Scorching ray could work though. All of its attack rolls are made when the spell is cast, and it involves attack rolls.
@@nilsjonsson4446 Well the advantage of EB is that because you get multiple attack rolls by the time you should still be able to hit multiple times which would trigger what you wanted to use the EB for in the first place but yeah I can't really think of a way to make it particularly effective. At least not without losing con save.
Best way to achieve this: "Hey Ken, your Warlock could take repelling blast and join in the fun!"
Should be pointed out that this is the tier of the game that you can upcast Immovable object at a level that no one is reasonably moving it good for capturing foes.
Is there a possible grappler buid possible to give yet another way to move enemies in and out of effects? I love the idea of a grappler spellcaster but I'm not sure if it would be effective enough.
Not sure how you would do that...
@@TreantmonksTemple I've got a half elf barbarian, level 3. I'm bored to tears with him mechanically but attached to the character. Any ideas how I could massage him into more of a spellcasting class? A big part of his character concept is his net and trident. What would synergise well with nets? The DM will allow me to retcon his starting stats.
@@Domina7ion what kind of Barbarian are you? (And if it's not path of the ancestral guardian, can that also be changed?)
@@TreantmonksTemple I recon I can change the path.
@@Domina7ion I would consider going a level in Warlock and then into Sorcerer. You can make use of spells like Armor of Agathys and Fire Shield even when in rage (since they don't use concentration) and they punish enemies for attacking you - which you can encourage with path of the ancestral guardian.
If you're using thorn whip to pull an enemy near one of your allies and then move them away from that allie using gravity well, your Allie gets an opportunity attack, right?
no. AoO's only trigger on using some sort of action to move, such as your movement, dashing, or a reaction to move. Which makes dissonant whispers particularly mean if you can get a baddy surrounded.
Why not use sickening radiance? Seems quite feasible to have them making 3 saves within 2 rounds, and even if they only fail 2 their speed is halved. If they fail all three, they have disadvantage on attacks and saves, at which point they're basically out of combat
I made a character that has 2 levels of eldrich blast instead of artificer in order to get repelling blast/lance of lethargy eldrich blast as well as the tentacle ability drom great ild one to lower their speel further. Combined with my warlock party member and enemies cant get near us
My apologies Chris, I misread the errata :( They talked about moving the spell's AoE onto the creature's space wasn't intented to instigate the saving throw (for example by moving Spirit Guardians as you move). What you are suggesting - moving the creature into the AoE - is encouraged as smart play!
Here's the link: dnd.wizards.com/articles/sage-advice/sage-advice-compendium
Page 16 where it references Moonbeam
PS. I deleted the previous comment to avoid confusing people. Apologies again
PS2. Oh and again thank you for uploading more videos during the quarantine, it really helps fight off boredom 😊
Well, that explains why I hadn't seen it! Thanks for the follow up
I like immovable objects using it on their clothing rendering them incapable of movement
How would you handle a build like this with a group consisting of mostly melee characters?
Re Gravity Well: "do AoE spells target?", is the question. And does Gravity Well need to target the creature? The wording is unclear, more so that Voice of Authority say. It mentions a target, but is that the target of the spell or the (or a) target of the effect? Furthermore, if AoE's are relevant to Gravity Well, can Gravity Well be used on several creatures with the same spell? "Cast a spell on *a* creature [...] move *the* target". It's so unclearly worded, and all I can hope is that One D&D uses less "natural language" and more defined terms.
Voice of Authority is absolutely clear. When you cast a spell with a spell slot and another condition is targeting. Ongoing effects don’t apply. You hve to consume spell slot and targtet creature. Gravity Well is, as you said, unclear, because the people that wrote it are well known for making unclear wordings and making the idea of RAW hard to follow
Should have commented on the last video but Matt Mercer seems to intend that dunamancy is what is a separate practice and not necessarily shared to other Wizards. So it's not necessarily true that gravaturgists and chronogist wizards cant share any spells.
RAW gravity well only triggers when you target a creature. Magnify gravity and also pulse wave don't target a creature so you don't get to proc gravity well.
It's wording is very restrictive and keeps you from doing useful combos. For example I can't move an enemy 3 times when I hit him with 3 different eldritch blast because I only cast one spell
You would be correct if the wording would’ve said something like “when you target a creature with a spell” rather than this bs “whenever you cast a spell on a creature” . Yeah I literally casted fireball on it, cuz the creature is in the area, my fireball is in the area, so my fireball is on the creature which became affected by my fireball. So RAW it doesn’t say that. You might draw that conclusion from other wordings or if uou ask the creator of the feature, but otherwise, it’s unclear if we speak about “RAW”
Typically I, at least to some small degree, get the basis of my character ideas from an anime character I like.
For this build I base it off of Shiro from No Game No Life. High int (of course) and I just play chess with the battlefield. Thematically the game set I'm proficient with is Dragon Chess.
I'd be interested in workshopping a Graviturgist that drops 2 levels into warlock to pick up Eldritch Blast with the Repelling Blast and Grasp of Hadar invocations, when combined with the Gravity well effect you have a huge diversity of possible move locations, say Y is You and E is the enemy, a hit with EB could move them to any of the following locations with no save.
XXOOOXX
XXOOOXX
XXOOOXX
XXOEOXX
XXOOOXX
XXOOOXX
XXOOOXX
Up to 100 feet here
XXXYXXX
And that's before you account for multiple hits with EB or the ability to reposition yourself at other angles. It's also a cantrip and requires no concentration, so you can combine it with other effects, zones and the like.
Newbie here so take it easy on me if this sounds crazy. I was just watching your video on "Find Familiar" (and sorry off topic) but since you are sharing what seams to be a pretty profound telepathic bond with your familiar celestial, fey or fiend familiar. And we could assume they have a vast knowledge of the world. Could he possibly know all the beast and elemental and share his knowledge with you so you could as a Druid, Wildshape into anything that's available in the MManual without much experience yourself?
I'm not sure I would be confident that the spirit has any knowledge of animals at all.
I like all of the AOE control spells HOWEVER you said that this build relies a lot on your team; like knocking enemies prone for your melee attackers. Don't all of these spells also stop your melee attackers from doing much too seeing as, unless you're able to move the enemy to the edge of the spell, your teammates are trying to cross difficult terrain while trying to not fall prone?
you can also isolate a single/some monsters away from the party. That's also part of the battefield control. Isolating a boss from it's minions can be very helpful
Hi Treantmonk, thanks for the vid. Wondering how you interpret the text of Gravity Well. It says "whenever you cast a spell on a creature,". Would you not assume that this refers to spells that only target a creature? So no AoE ones? It goes on refering to "the target" (singular) leaving no option open for multiple targets, which an AoE spell could have.
That's my interpretation, too. Though there are some spells that target multiple creatures within an area, as opposed to the area. Slow, for instance.
I think it would say "on a single creature" if that were the case.
I know this is a year late, but hey, it might be useful to someone.
Hey treantmonk, will you ever do a review on pathfinder 2E? I found it extremely interesting with the action economy and having more feats and stuff, but haven't tried it myself.
No plans at the moment...
@@TreantmonksTemple Let me know if you ever come around to it, love your content.
Hey Chris me and my group are starting a new campaign tomorrow and I'm looking at playing a war cleric. What are your thoughts on taking two levels of fighter and going war cleric the rest? Or is it a better call to go straight war cleric. This campaign will likely stretch into the 12-15th level and maybe beyond
I would say straight war cleric is better, but if I was to want fighter in there, I would probably do fighter 1/cleric 5/fighter 2-3(EK)
What is the tool you are building your guy on?
I use D&D Beyond.
@@TreantmonksTemple i thought you said in the video: "when i do this on d&d beyond, it wont let me do this", but you were able to, sorry, must have mis understood. Was when you were talking about the dunemancy first level spell
@@TheBarryholloway I used a work-around
@@TreantmonksTemple hey man im sorry about keep bothering you. You seem pretty knowlegable, i was wondering if other than robe of the archmage, any way to raise dc for a wizard in wotc content?
staff of power