High speed sync allows you to shoot at short flash duration as well.So what are we saying here. You gain a stop of light with global shutter with flash because HSS loses a stop of light? At full power, most flashes are under 1000th of a sec, usually around 500. So you have to half the power output anyway to get a fast duration. You can set your flash trigger to delay the signal and get a type of Hypersync at full power but again at lower flash duration so there are some work arounds. I think this is limited application usage for flash (stroboscopic is cool but will not be used much) maybe you could explain other than flash power what does it buy me with flash. To me the real advantage is no rolling shutter. No warped objects that move fast, no rolling shutter for video. This has nothing to do with flash but I think it is an important advancement. So I am saying it an advancement, a good one for stills, but I don't think it is huge with flash. I do think that rolling shutter elimination is a bigger feature. For high speed shutter, you can only reach 16000 sec with lenses F 1.4 or larger.
Now I go my A9III now and have used it with Elinchrom, Broncolor Satos 3200 and Sony HVL-F60RM2 flashes. The flash speed you get out of the Sony HVL-F60RM2 is absolutely mind blowing. This small 60 Joule flash works at in Hi+ (120fps), 1/16000, f/1.8, ISO 250 without any problem. Every pictures is perfectly sharp, with excellent colour. Just put it on the A9III and start shooting in any mode. No fiddling, nothing. This is by far the best speed-light for SONY cameras. Nothing comes close. Period.
HSS has about 30-40% of the reach of regular flash. That's what I see when I compare the numbers on my flashes. So, either more light at the same distance or more distance from the flash to the subject at high shutter speeds. But it doesn't end there. The flash recycle time is greatly improved. How many frames per second can you shoot with HSS? What if I want to shoot at 1/8000 and 10 fps or even 20 fps. That's what I want tested on the A9iii. I'm guessing it won't be a problem.
OK - even Profoto's web site disagrees. Take the B10 for example, it's flash duration at FULL power is 1/400s. That means the A9iii would open and close it's shutter before the B10 dumped it's full load of power. Right? what am i missing? The "peak' is only part of the power, the flash tube is still outputting power after the peak,; more than half of the total light output occurs after the peak. You don't get a super fast (short) duration until you drop the power output significantly. Look at the light output curve... am i wrong?
The global shutter on a full frame is indeed an incredible technological achievement. I have two questions on synching with flash: First, Cliff says that Profoto has 1/80,000 flash duration. At what power ratio do lights need to operate in order to get that short a duration? Second, in order to sync the camera with light peak from the flash, the camera must wait a predetermined amount to time, with a precision within less than 10uS in order to capture a 1/80,000 peak. How constant is that latency? Radio triggers can their signal multiple times for reliability. This can induce random latency. Does that mean we need to have wired connections to the flash?
The potential for creative and novel uses of this new tech is remarkable. I think the only real limiter is going to be the signal pulse for the flash to fire. Can you imagine filling a cityscape with 20 little shoe mount flashes. or light sculpting with bokeh. This is as groundbreaking as ditching the mirror.
Great interview! Thanks for this. I'll have to re-watch it a couple of times to get it though. I'm very excited for the new types of photography. The Sony Alpha Universe footage is amazing. I would love to learn how to do that. Amazing!
This is the next step for mirrorless cameras. I did wondered at one time what do Sony do next? And knew it had to be global shutter but i didn't expect it to be this early. Having a global shutter in the next generations of alpha cameras means we will not see a mechanical shutter anymore. Sony will likely still include a shield to protect the sensor when changing lenses. This is an evolutionary step for camera today. The haters will always have something bad to say and i am tired of hearing their lousy excuses. Don't get it if you still prefer your DSLR or your rolling shutter. just acknowledge that camera technology is advancing again. As for Canon and Nikon, they better start developing their own GS soon or else they will get left behind again.
I am insulted that he says photojournalists know nothing about lighting, LOL. From my early days as a staff photojournalist at Newsday Newspaper in NY, we as a staff were known for our use of multiple portable lights , even in news situations, really. And as a photojournalist who has shot all subjects around the world for the past 50 years, for top newspapers, for top magazines like Time and Newsweek, for portraits, for models, celebrities, royalty, heads of state, Nobel Peace Prize laureates, fashion, corporate clients and their events, weddings, and more ,I am very accomplished when it comes to use of lighting even to light athletes, and sporting events. Top photojournalists have to know how to use all forms of lighting or not survive in this business. And as a longtime Professor of Photography at a state university who teaches Digital Photography, Photojournalism, and 35mm B&W film photography, I teach all my students how to master use of natural and supplemental lighting. I am always open to learning more from others, but he owes us an apology . Cheers and best to you.
Exactly, even in movies from 50 years ago you see photojournalists using some kind of lighting equipment! (not just a basic flash unit) silly to think any seasoned photojournalist wouldn’t have any knowledge or skill with using lighting beyond natural light.
@Krmelj Can we differentiate his Zoom call lighting from flash photography? While some may not agree with is feelings on outside matters, all of that falls outside of the topic at hand. He doesn't do TH-cam content, so he's not going to have fancy LED lighting like what I was using.
Were you taking editorial portraits? Or shooting candid at events? I do photojournalism… and typically only on-camera is possible unless you had a partner handling OCF.
@@jasonsborean we photojournalists at Newsday would use portable stands, clamps, whatever and multiple light any general news events and sporting events. I once had Black Activist Angela Davis' bodyguard hold an extra light for me while photographing her at a rally. We did it, not many others did. Cheers
I have some questions. To get that short flash duration isn't power i.e. light output comprised? Isn't light output drastically reduced to the point where it may not be noticeable? How much light power is produced by the pack with the flash duration of 1/80,000 of a second? What lens has a big enough fstop to let in enough light at that short duration? What ISO would you have to be at to produce an decent image on the sensor.
For someone who is using flash duration already to stop action (NOT with HSS)... how does this affect how we capture and light images? I shoot indoor equestrian events. I typically walk into an arena that ambient lighting puts at 6400+ ISO... F2.8 at 1/500-640... But Set up at like ISO 200-400 at F/4 and 1/200 with light stopping it at like 5-10k... What will change? Can I use lower power and get more speed? What's the advantage?
Thanks for that video and happy new year! I'm really waiting to get mine and see if it will be fully compatible with my Godox system (sorry can't afford the superb profoto system).
If Profoto flashes are suitable for the A9III and it is a question of flash duration to have access to extraordinary sync speeds, the questions are: does a brand like Godox meet the specifications of the A9III (in terms of duration of the flash of their flashes)? And what is the precise calculation between the duration of the flash and the speed of the global shutter in order to answer the previous question for ourselves?
For now, it probably remains more practical to simply use a lens with a leaf shutter, or ND filters. This is an excellent proof of concept, though, and I am excited to see how the technology evolves in the future!
Profoto B10: in Normal mode: 1/400 s (250 Ws) - 1/4,900 s (0.5 Ws)... so if you need full power and best color... you end with 1/400s... so for normal usage outside in the sun... i do not see much benefit possible here... and u have to carefully look at used power level and possible flash duration time... plug & play is another thing.. Or still HSS plugs in here at higher shutter speeds?
!/80000 s or 125µs almost good to freeze a bullet... not sure on what and how many practical applications it can be used for, and has others have pointed out the issues that I can see is the difference in lag/latency between the signal leaving the processor and reaching the electronic shutter and the discharge signal for the flash capacitors .
Hi, I've got a problem that I can't seem to solve with my a9iii and B10X (And plus) with the Connect Pro trigger. All my B10x flashes and two Connect Pro triggers work perfectly with my A1, but when shooting with the a9iii I keep getting blank frames, although the flash is firing. I only get blank frames when shooting slowly/singleshot, I can take two quickly and it's fine and @5fps all fine. It's totally random, anyone else with the same setup they could test? I get a few good frames and them a blank frame. It happens at all shutter speeds/Profoto output. Sony flash adjustment is set to on and has been fine tuned, turning off and using HSS everything is fine. All firmware is up to date, fully charged batteries.Sony has been 100% unhelpful..Anyone else getting the same problem?
B10x goes down to 1/42000 at its lowest power setting. At full power it's at 1/1300. That is 0.5Ws at 1/42000. I don't get where is that power this guy talks about. 0.5Ws???
I think Sonys flashes sales are gonna go just to be able to use that fast hss shooting . Got mines last week try it on my dogs and boy oh boy !! Amazing speed and autofocus consistently using the Sony hvl flash
please try this. take the a9iii outside with a f/1.2 lens in full mid-day sun, crank the speed up to 1/40,000 (instead of using a 3 stop ND) and see if the flash will "overpower' the sun. The running theory is that the flash will not have time to dump all it's light on the subject before the shutter closes.
That's the plan! In practice it should work, especially since you can dial in the flash sync timing in camera to match up with the peak curve of the flash. We didn't dig enough into this, but I tested it with a couple of flashes and was able to get it working. I'll have it on video very very soon 📸
If it had been an 50 megapixel camera I would have been throwing my money at Sony. That said the I’m very curious about the timing between the camera and the flash. With a global shutter that records in the blink of an eye there must be some timing happening. How long from shutter button depression until the image is recorded. How long from shutter depression to signal sent to the flash.
Lol yea well, the a9iii is a camera that PO folk just dream about having lol. I'm a rodeo photographer and the a9iii would be a game changer for my business. But I would have to get lucky and have a camera company sponsor me. I wonder if that camera would work with Paul C Buff Einsteins and white lighting strobes? Anyhow, love the videos. Keep 'em coming.
Yes, the Pro 11 packs are expensive. They are professional packs used for very specific types of shooting, just like the a9 III. Neither product is for everyone, just like I mentioned several times.
@@MiguelQuilesJr just saying, if youtubers are gonna "review" a product, you gotta at least not fail to mention using $18,000 product(s) to get the shot. Not to mention all the downsides such as the fact that only 1/5th of the lenses compatible with the camera support 120fps. over 80% of lenses are capped at 30fps via software by sony. or how about total power at that flash duration and how much you have to bump up your ISO to compensate because the output power is so low at that speed. Not to mention its on a camera whose ISO performance and dynamic range is subpar (due to it being a global shutter). a lot of omissions from a lot of youtubers, guess it was just an accident they forgot to mention the main traditional drawbacks of global shutter cameras and guess they just forgot to mention the lack of practicality. Before you use budget as an excuse and poor shame me, know that I can afford the entire setup, but that doesn't mean that I don't care about all the extra costs involved to use it practically. I prefer to be an educated buyer and know about these hidden costs, you know like a review should actually cover. Now I'm not saying its you in particular, but go watch 90% of the "reviews". That a long with the fact that most of these people got to go to an amazing free event like this and have costs covered for them, I am not surprised they don't want to say anything bad because subconsciously they don't want to miss out on those opportunities in the future. But maybe not, maybe it was just by chance they all forgot to test these things or talk about them. I mean its only been years of past knowledge about global shutters having these downsides, thats clearly not enough time for people to go, "you know what, X always has these issues, and they just released an X camera, lets just not cover those traditional problems". Who knows maybe they forgot.
I get it, Sony wants to advertise this. this is nothing but a 24MP camera body with less ISO and shitty dynamic range. This is a gimmick to try and answer Nikon's Z8. When they get it with a 48MP or better sensor at 64 ISO...and better dynamic range, then we can play the fanboy game lol
![สาวเมืองเพชร - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kEt7F9PvO3I/mqdefault.jpg)
High speed sync allows you to shoot at short flash duration as well.So what are we saying here. You gain a stop of light with global shutter with flash because HSS loses a stop of light? At full power, most flashes are under 1000th of a sec, usually around 500. So you have to half the power output anyway to get a fast duration. You can set your flash trigger to delay the signal and get a type of Hypersync at full power but again at lower flash duration so there are some work arounds. I think this is limited application usage for flash (stroboscopic is cool but will not be used much) maybe you could explain other than flash power what does it buy me with flash. To me the real advantage is no rolling shutter. No warped objects that move fast, no rolling shutter for video. This has nothing to do with flash but I think it is an important advancement. So I am saying it an advancement, a good one for stills, but I don't think it is huge with flash. I do think that rolling shutter elimination is a bigger feature. For high speed shutter, you can only reach 16000 sec with lenses F 1.4 or larger.
Now I go my A9III now and have used it with Elinchrom, Broncolor Satos 3200 and Sony HVL-F60RM2 flashes. The flash speed you get out of the Sony HVL-F60RM2 is absolutely mind blowing. This small 60 Joule flash works at in Hi+ (120fps), 1/16000, f/1.8, ISO 250 without any problem. Every pictures is perfectly sharp, with excellent colour. Just put it on the A9III and start shooting in any mode. No fiddling, nothing. This is by far the best speed-light for SONY cameras. Nothing comes close. Period.
HSS has about 30-40% of the reach of regular flash. That's what I see when I compare the numbers on my flashes. So, either more light at the same distance or more distance from the flash to the subject at high shutter speeds. But it doesn't end there. The flash recycle time is greatly improved. How many frames per second can you shoot with HSS? What if I want to shoot at 1/8000 and 10 fps or even 20 fps. That's what I want tested on the A9iii. I'm guessing it won't be a problem.
OK - even Profoto's web site disagrees. Take the B10 for example, it's flash duration at FULL power is 1/400s. That means the A9iii would open and close it's shutter before the B10 dumped it's full load of power. Right? what am i missing? The "peak' is only part of the power, the flash tube is still outputting power after the peak,; more than half of the total light output occurs after the peak. You don't get a super fast (short) duration until you drop the power output significantly. Look at the light output curve... am i wrong?
Use sony flashes :)
The global shutter on a full frame is indeed an incredible technological achievement. I have two questions on synching with flash:
First, Cliff says that Profoto has 1/80,000 flash duration. At what power ratio do lights need to operate in order to get that short a duration?
Second, in order to sync the camera with light peak from the flash, the camera must wait a predetermined amount to time, with a precision within less than 10uS in order to capture a 1/80,000 peak. How constant is that latency? Radio triggers can their signal multiple times for reliability. This can induce random latency. Does that mean we need to have wired connections to the flash?
The potential for creative and novel uses of this new tech is remarkable. I think the only real limiter is going to be the signal pulse for the flash to fire. Can you imagine filling a cityscape with 20 little shoe mount flashes. or light sculpting with bokeh. This is as groundbreaking as ditching the mirror.
Excellent work, Miguel. One of the better takes on the new tech... And Cliff is someone who would definitely know.
I have older camera I still use for non profit events. This is good to know if renting or at a event using Profoto strobes for personal work.
A very nice interview. Got the a93 and after 2 weeks it feels just insane..
Great interview! Thanks for this. I'll have to re-watch it a couple of times to get it though. I'm very excited for the new types of photography. The Sony Alpha Universe footage is amazing. I would love to learn how to do that. Amazing!
This is the next step for mirrorless cameras. I did wondered at one time what do Sony do next? And knew it had to be global shutter but i didn't expect it to be this early. Having a global shutter in the next generations of alpha cameras means we will not see a mechanical shutter anymore. Sony will likely still include a shield to protect the sensor when changing lenses. This is an evolutionary step for camera today. The haters will always have something bad to say and i am tired of hearing their lousy excuses. Don't get it if you still prefer your DSLR or your rolling shutter. just acknowledge that camera technology is advancing again.
As for Canon and Nikon, they better start developing their own GS soon or else they will get left behind again.
I am insulted that he says photojournalists know nothing about lighting, LOL. From my early days as a staff photojournalist at Newsday Newspaper in NY, we as a staff were known for our use of multiple portable lights , even in news situations, really. And as a photojournalist who has shot all subjects around the world for the past 50 years, for top newspapers, for top magazines like Time and Newsweek, for portraits, for models, celebrities, royalty, heads of state, Nobel Peace Prize laureates, fashion, corporate clients and their events, weddings, and more ,I am very accomplished when it comes to use of lighting even to light athletes, and sporting events. Top photojournalists have to know how to use all forms of lighting or not survive in this business. And as a longtime Professor of Photography at a state university who teaches Digital Photography, Photojournalism, and 35mm B&W film photography, I teach all my students how to master use of natural and supplemental lighting. I am always open to learning more from others, but he owes us an apology . Cheers and best to you.
Exactly, even in movies from 50 years ago you see photojournalists using some kind of lighting equipment! (not just a basic flash unit) silly to think any seasoned photojournalist wouldn’t have any knowledge or skill with using lighting beyond natural light.
@Krmelj Can we differentiate his Zoom call lighting from flash photography? While some may not agree with is feelings on outside matters, all of that falls outside of the topic at hand. He doesn't do TH-cam content, so he's not going to have fancy LED lighting like what I was using.
Were you taking editorial portraits? Or shooting candid at events? I do photojournalism… and typically only on-camera is possible unless you had a partner handling OCF.
@@jasonsborean we photojournalists at Newsday would use portable stands, clamps, whatever and multiple light any general news events and sporting events. I once had Black Activist Angela Davis' bodyguard hold an extra light for me while photographing her at a rally. We did it, not many others did. Cheers
I have some questions. To get that short flash duration isn't power i.e. light output comprised? Isn't light output drastically reduced to the point where it may not be noticeable? How much light power is produced by the pack with the flash duration of 1/80,000 of a second? What lens has a big enough fstop to let in enough light at that short duration?
What ISO would you have to be at to produce an decent image on the sensor.
Should do an interview with Rob from Rotolight - I believe their lights have no issue with this high speed shutter speed or 120 fps
For someone who is using flash duration already to stop action (NOT with HSS)... how does this affect how we capture and light images? I shoot indoor equestrian events. I typically walk into an arena that ambient lighting puts at 6400+ ISO... F2.8 at 1/500-640... But Set up at like ISO 200-400 at F/4 and 1/200 with light stopping it at like 5-10k... What will change? Can I use lower power and get more speed? What's the advantage?
Why is so important premium Profoto flash durations anymore if the camera can sync at 1/4000 even if the flash has a poor duration?
Agreed. Especially since he is a lighting expert.
Thanks for that video and happy new year!
I'm really waiting to get mine and see if it will be fully compatible with my Godox system (sorry can't afford the superb profoto system).
I wonder if this will encourage flash manufacturers to make new products specifically for the A9III?
same thought, tech often mature together like memory cards
If Profoto flashes are suitable for the A9III and it is a question of flash duration to have access to extraordinary sync speeds, the questions are: does a brand like Godox meet the specifications of the A9III (in terms of duration of the flash of their flashes)? And what is the precise calculation between the duration of the flash and the speed of the global shutter in order to answer the previous question for ourselves?
thanks for this video
many questions I had
even in an event with profoto yesterday answer were not that clear
Cliff the Profoto Guy is at every big photo event in the city, and the only time I get to try Profoto lights and flashes.
Cliff is a legend! I've got so many fun stories chopping it up with him at various events. He's a good dude.
@@MiguelQuilesJr and he gives out tips and advice when using flash to shoot
Miguel, great job, as always. And always great to see Julianna!
Amazing information Miguel as always 🎉
For now, it probably remains more practical to simply use a lens with a leaf shutter, or ND filters. This is an excellent proof of concept, though, and I am excited to see how the technology evolves in the future!
Great Video!
What is the link to the video with various photographers using Profoto lights with the a9III?
th-cam.com/video/JTSPPLRIYBg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=fk_OVyRkwQUvSWvU
Profoto B10: in Normal mode: 1/400 s (250 Ws) - 1/4,900 s (0.5 Ws)... so if you need full power and best color... you end with 1/400s... so for normal usage outside in the sun... i do not see much benefit possible here... and u have to carefully look at used power level and possible flash duration time... plug & play is another thing.. Or still HSS plugs in here at higher shutter speeds?
!/80000 s or 125µs almost good to freeze a bullet... not sure on what and how many practical applications it can be used for, and has others have pointed out the issues that I can see is the difference in lag/latency between the signal leaving the processor and reaching the electronic shutter and the discharge signal for the flash capacitors .
Great discussion. Cliff looks just like comedian/actor/podcaster Marc Maron minus the hair!
Great interview!
Thank you! 🙏
Hi, I've got a problem that I can't seem to solve with my a9iii and B10X (And plus) with the Connect Pro trigger.
All my B10x flashes and two Connect Pro triggers work perfectly with my A1, but when shooting with the a9iii I keep getting blank frames, although the flash is firing. I only get blank frames when shooting slowly/singleshot, I can take two quickly and it's fine and @5fps all fine.
It's totally random, anyone else with the same setup they could test? I get a few good frames and them a blank frame.
It happens at all shutter speeds/Profoto output. Sony flash adjustment is set to on and has been fine tuned, turning off and using HSS everything is fine.
All firmware is up to date, fully charged batteries.Sony has been 100% unhelpful..Anyone else getting the same problem?
And Godox Yongnuo Flashes?
4:10 Pro-11 packs are mains powered, not battery.
B10x goes down to 1/42000 at its lowest power setting. At full power it's at 1/1300. That is 0.5Ws at 1/42000. I don't get where is that power this guy talks about. 0.5Ws???
I think Sonys flashes sales are gonna go just to be able to use that fast hss shooting . Got mines last week try it on my dogs and boy oh boy !! Amazing speed and autofocus consistently using the Sony hvl flash
please try this. take the a9iii outside with a f/1.2 lens in full mid-day sun, crank the speed up to 1/40,000 (instead of using a 3 stop ND) and see if the flash will "overpower' the sun. The running theory is that the flash will not have time to dump all it's light on the subject before the shutter closes.
That's the plan! In practice it should work, especially since you can dial in the flash sync timing in camera to match up with the peak curve of the flash. We didn't dig enough into this, but I tested it with a couple of flashes and was able to get it working. I'll have it on video very very soon 📸
If it had been an 50 megapixel camera I would have been throwing my money at Sony. That said the I’m very curious about the timing between the camera and the flash. With a global shutter that records in the blink of an eye there must be some timing happening. How long from shutter button depression until the image is recorded. How long from shutter depression to signal sent to the flash.
Sony is saving that 50 mp sensor for their future a1-ii.
Supposedly you can set the delay
Lol yea well, the a9iii is a camera that PO folk just dream about having lol. I'm a rodeo photographer and the a9iii would be a game changer for my business. But I would have to get lucky and have a camera company sponsor me. I wonder if that camera would work with Paul C Buff Einsteins and white lighting strobes? Anyhow, love the videos. Keep 'em coming.
Now we can turn day into night
Profoto pro 11 $18,000, And almost no TH-camr mentioned it.
Yes, the Pro 11 packs are expensive. They are professional packs used for very specific types of shooting, just like the a9 III. Neither product is for everyone, just like I mentioned several times.
@@MiguelQuilesJr just saying, if youtubers are gonna "review" a product, you gotta at least not fail to mention using $18,000 product(s) to get the shot. Not to mention all the downsides such as the fact that only 1/5th of the lenses compatible with the camera support 120fps. over 80% of lenses are capped at 30fps via software by sony.
or how about total power at that flash duration and how much you have to bump up your ISO to compensate because the output power is so low at that speed. Not to mention its on a camera whose ISO performance and dynamic range is subpar (due to it being a global shutter).
a lot of omissions from a lot of youtubers, guess it was just an accident they forgot to mention the main traditional drawbacks of global shutter cameras and guess they just forgot to mention the lack of practicality.
Before you use budget as an excuse and poor shame me, know that I can afford the entire setup, but that doesn't mean that I don't care about all the extra costs involved to use it practically. I prefer to be an educated buyer and know about these hidden costs, you know like a review should actually cover. Now I'm not saying its you in particular, but go watch 90% of the "reviews". That a long with the fact that most of these people got to go to an amazing free event like this and have costs covered for them, I am not surprised they don't want to say anything bad because subconsciously they don't want to miss out on those opportunities in the future. But maybe not, maybe it was just by chance they all forgot to test these things or talk about them. I mean its only been years of past knowledge about global shutters having these downsides, thats clearly not enough time for people to go, "you know what, X always has these issues, and they just released an X camera, lets just not cover those traditional problems". Who knows maybe they forgot.
This is more of an advert for Profoto :p
How else would you have liked to see this topic covered when they were the only lighting brand that was a part of the launch?
👏👏👏👏
The ring light reflection on his glasses is so distracting 😂😂😂
Kind of like the softbox reflection in your profile pic? 😅📸
@@MiguelQuilesJr lol..... LOL... WAH HA HA.
I mean, sometimes the comedy writes itself 😂✌️
@@MiguelQuilesJr Roflmao 😂 😂
@@MiguelQuilesJrlol!
I get it, Sony wants to advertise this. this is nothing but a 24MP camera body with less ISO and shitty dynamic range. This is a gimmick to try and answer Nikon's Z8. When they get it with a 48MP or better sensor at 64 ISO...and better dynamic range, then we can play the fanboy game lol
Nah, when they do that haters will push the goal line somewhere else 😂