@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio Kudos from the NSA.GOV. It's my pleasure to inspire you as an American electronics manufacturer . Because we as Americans are simply the best at Hi FI. And always will be.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio PSS. Offer rackmount ear kits to your amplifier chassis as you are already using balanced inputs. SEXY! Handles of course. Plz just consider.
Thank you mr. Paul! Again 😊! I read a lot of bla bla about tube transformers issues on various forums … and this is the first time😅 I understand it! Only the guys with great knowledge can explain something complicated in such simple way!
Paul, I wonder what your thoughts are on McIntosh Solid State amplifiers that use output transformers rather than a direct couple design? Wondering if McIntosh solid state output transformers reduce the dynamics of sound or sort of “flatten” the sound?
Good answer . Very few people will ever get to hear music through the David Berning 845/211 ZOTL amplifier . Rare , costly , probably worth it . He is a genius .
@roderikvanReekum a good and nice music level of a amplifier needs just a few Watts, so what's your point? A well designed vacuum amplifier from Menno van der Veen from the Netherlands sounds much better then the most transistor amplifiers. Just try 😊
That was a great video and i agree the transformer can add something. Or even take away . I think you couid have also mentioned air gap and reflected load and maybe the ultra linear tap on some. As audio transformers are not quite the same as power .It is a big subject.
The transformer is critical, losses in the transformer come from all sides, interwinding capacitance, the grain in the steel, poor winding technique. These become apparent in the coupling factor, (transformer efficiency) so if the “K” is fractionally off, you have a problem. It the amplifier design has feedback from the speaker side, it gets much more critical as the poor coupling gets fed back as correction and awful things happen in the high frequency end. Paul is spot on, the transformer matters a lot. As for valves (it was a UK question…) again configuration dependant, but generally anything quality will be fine, you don’t need to go daft here.
I would say opposite because I did not observe any disadvantage of using thansformer- actualy I like transformer in speaker circuit because as source it has industance character and speaker in 99% band has the same. Growing of speaker inductance is compensated by growing transformer impedance. so the equity of source / receiver impedances is kept in much wider range It assures passing optimium power to speaker.
Pretty close to impossible because voice coils are wound in a single layer. To get a high impedance many layers would be required, and they would all have to be wound in the same direction. If you can figure out how to do that, let us know.
@@spacemissing Philips 50 years ago produced such speakers. I do not know exact technology but sure it is about resistance/ inductance of coil and that may be obtained with thinny conductor. They had about 800 Ohm pure resistance . Main problem is to exclude DC field so that it does not affest position of diaphragm Anyawy I had such speaker in my TV and it sounded fantsatic as for such device but simmilar to than my audio set with exceptional speakers driven from PP and high quality transformer. Means rare to spot in normal gear
Technically electrostatic speakers are high impendence and use high voltages like tube output stages do. I've always thought a direct coupled tube to panel output would be best for them.
Sony, years ago made speakers with I think it was 180 ohms impedence and had matching output transformerless amps. They sounded great. Transformers almost always degrade the sound, and they put a lot of degrading micro vibration into the chassis which vibration gets to the circuit board. The David Beening Co. and the French company Sans Pareil made some output transformerless amps that are among the best sounding you will ever hear. Some of these guys who claim it would be near impossible, don't really know much about audio or it's product history.
I always say .. if you're gonna use a vacuum tube amplifier make sure the output transformer is sectionally wound and uses C-Core magnetics and lastly has a tertiary winding in the cathode circuit .. like the Quad 2
It shoud be preferred, I was very interested in those matters in past and I wanted to fight for it anyway when I aligned my whole system with my PP vintage transformers which I do not know about sectioning and loaded transformer double less than it's capability (I expect it is not sectioned ) it sounds exactly to my wish. .
Has anyone ever had any of their electronics cryogenically treated? Any if some difference, I'm seriously considering and just on the fence. Thanks in advance.
I don’t understand why people need to bash Gibson because they wouldn’t buy every product they make. No company including Gibson can be everything for everyone. Buy what makes you happy.
I am always amazed how cheap Chinese tube amps get such good reviews, even from established YT audio channels. I wonder how they manage the output transformers because there are no real shortcuts to them in terms of material cost, design, and labor (though only the first one is a consideration in this case, but I am on thin ice here).
Ehhhh. Sorta kinda. For output transformers that have to deal with a lot of power, it turns out that cheap GOSS laminations are actually a pretty good core material. And if you follow some pretty basic guidelines, you can build a transformer that performs pretty darn well. Especially for a first attempt. From there, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make a couple iterations to fine tune the performance. Will it be the best transformer ever made? No. Obviously not. But the sound quality difference is not enough to justify the price. Especially when you can buy your own CNC winding machine for the price of a pair of decent transformers.
@@hugobloemers4425 "I wonder how they manage the output transformers because there are no real shortcuts to them in terms of material cost, design, and labor" could be construed as a question.
Remember that china often steals the invention of others so they don't have to spend a long time making something. Therefore the china product is cheaper.
Tubes are expensive hard to run resistive loads. 20.7s require current. Coda Ts v3 800w@4ohm 3kw toroidal, 80k capacitance 20 bi-polar transistors per bank 😊
There are no free lunches out there for quality. Some companies outsource labor overseas versus the U.S. so some savings can be had there. I have a pair of tube amps the 452 IQ music block VAC amps from Kevin Hayes out of Florida. As far as tube amps go they are some of the best out there but of course are not cheap. They have a bunch of smaller transformers so that transient response is very fast. With an audio person it comes down to 1. What can you afford to spend? 2.What do you want to spend? I personally love tube amps. Their more natural sound tends to kick the crap out of solid state amps. Some class A amps can sound very good but the heat generated can take away most small to medium size rooms for comfort with listening experience. My tube amps have heat but top off once warmed up and throw off very little heat I don't even notice it after warm up. Tube amps sound great out of the box but tend to really open up after about 1 hour of turn on and play. You have to keep track of hours on the tubes as they hit a tipping point where after so many hours the tubes start declining in performance and time for replacement. For lower budgets the Prima Luna tube amp is very good quality. The tubes that come with it the expansiveness of the stage can seem more constricted. Tube rolling at that level of gear with some vintage stock tubes can give some great results. There are power conditioners for floor level of noise but I believe one of the most often overlooked not that expensive upgrades is having electrician run dedicated power outlets for each amp and pre-amp back to electrical box with 10 gauge copper Romex wire. Having dedicated lines takes out lots of floor noise usually from all plugs in the room being on the same circuit. I used Audioquest power outlets. Part of the art of a good store dealer or going to multiple ones is knowing in your current budget what will give you the most improvement for the hard earned dollars you have to spend. There are tons of ways to improve a system it comes down to money with options. Lots of people chase a flat curve but that can sound awful. Most listeners find some distortion pleasing to the ear. Rolls Royce the car made their interior one time where it had no noise floor where it was like a chamber. The tests almost drove people nuts. The average car DB noise is about 40 so they found 10 was more pleasing but take the noise level down to nothing it made customers very un-comfortable. Most humans do not know it but the ears find some noise level pleasing. There is difference between overall noise level and then a bunch of hums, rings, clicks, pops, and buzzes that are not pleasing. So there is the type of noise and the level of it.
It is no discovery in statement that people feel discomfort in total silence. It wolud be valuable to say why it happens and as for me may be even revolutionary to explain many wizzardy and voodo but looks that konwledge around has high barreiers and effort to jump over is infinite.
Why people even use vacuum tubes, they are so WEAK they do not have any power, maybe 30 watts. Meanwhile transistors are so STRONG they have lots of power, 1000 watts is easy to do.
In a domestic environment normal listening volumes don't need all that much power, especially for acoustic & most classical music, a few watts is usually enough unless you like early hearing loss. What is more important is that an amplifier can cope with short powerful transients, but average long term power levels don't need to be much at all and tube amps are usually quite sufficient. Of course some specific music genres consist of a continuous barrage of powerful low frequency transients, so you may need a more powerful transistor amp rated for continuous high output power if that is your cup of tea (e.g. drum & bass, hip-hop or Japanese bass Taiko drumming etc.)
Paul, I'm amazed of how much you know, how much you like what you know, and how much you enjoy sharing what you know. Thx
Thanks! My pleasure.
Here here!
Love the videos.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio Kudos from the NSA.GOV. It's my pleasure to inspire you as an American electronics manufacturer . Because we as Americans are simply the best at Hi FI. And always will be.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio PSS. Offer rackmount ear kits to your amplifier chassis as you are already using balanced inputs. SEXY! Handles of course. Plz just consider.
Fascinating! This might be the best question and answer I’ve heard in the last 2-3 years. Thank you, Paul!!
Easily impressionable type, aren’t you..
@@Gjoa1906 Pathetic, miserable incel type, aren’t you?
Thank you mr. Paul! Again 😊! I read a lot of bla bla about tube transformers issues on various forums … and this is the first time😅 I understand it! Only the guys with great knowledge can explain something complicated in such simple way!
Paul, I wonder what your thoughts are on McIntosh Solid State amplifiers that use output transformers rather than a direct couple design? Wondering if McIntosh solid state output transformers reduce the dynamics of sound or sort of “flatten” the sound?
Good answer . Very few people will ever get to hear music through the David Berning 845/211 ZOTL amplifier . Rare , costly , probably worth it . He is a genius .
Agreed
Thank you Paul, I'm working on a tube amp right now (HK Allegro A-10) and this is a GREAT question.
Too bad he didn’t answer..
Simple and precise explanation. Excellent 🎉
@roderikvanReekum a good and nice music level of a amplifier needs just a few Watts, so what's your point?
A well designed vacuum amplifier from Menno van der Veen from the Netherlands sounds much better then the most transistor amplifiers.
Just try 😊
That was a great video and i agree the transformer can add something. Or even take away .
I think you couid have also mentioned air gap and reflected load and maybe the ultra linear tap on some. As audio transformers are not quite the same as power .It is a big subject.
Primary: High Voltage at Low current. Secondary: Low voltage at High current (hence the word "transform" - transformed to match speaker Ohms)
Great information Paul.
I Guess Paul was thinking about Audio Note UK as one of the the brands with the best designed tube output transformers money can buy ;)
Good output transformers were the reason Dynaco tube amps sounded so good for the time.
Super thanks. You make me day....every day you do....
The transformer is critical, losses in the transformer come from all sides, interwinding capacitance, the grain in the steel, poor winding technique. These become apparent in the coupling factor, (transformer efficiency) so if the “K” is fractionally off, you have a problem. It the amplifier design has feedback from the speaker side, it gets much more critical as the poor coupling gets fed back as correction and awful things happen in the high frequency end. Paul is spot on, the transformer matters a lot. As for valves (it was a UK question…) again configuration dependant, but generally anything quality will be fine, you don’t need to go daft here.
I would say opposite because I did not observe any disadvantage of using thansformer- actualy I like transformer in speaker circuit because as source it has industance character and speaker in 99% band has the same. Growing of speaker inductance is compensated by growing transformer impedance. so the equity of source / receiver impedances is kept in much wider range It assures passing optimium power to speaker.
Great concise answer
Is it possible to manufacture high impedance loudspeakers to avoid the use of transformers?
Thank.
Pretty close to impossible because voice coils are wound in a single layer.
To get a high impedance many layers would be required,
and they would all have to be wound in the same direction.
If you can figure out how to do that, let us know.
@@spacemissing I have no idea. That was the reason of my question. It looks that technically is no feasible.
@@spacemissing Philips 50 years ago produced such speakers. I do not know exact technology but sure it is about resistance/ inductance of coil and that may be obtained with thinny conductor. They had about 800 Ohm pure resistance . Main problem is to exclude DC field so that it does not affest position of diaphragm Anyawy I had such speaker in my TV and it sounded fantsatic as for such device but simmilar to than my audio set with exceptional speakers driven from PP and high quality transformer. Means rare to spot in normal gear
Technically electrostatic speakers are high impendence and use high voltages like tube output stages do. I've always thought a direct coupled tube to panel output would be best for them.
Sony, years ago made speakers with I think it was 180 ohms impedence and had matching output transformerless amps. They sounded great. Transformers almost always degrade the sound, and they put a lot of degrading micro vibration into the chassis which vibration gets to the circuit board. The David Beening Co. and the French company Sans Pareil made some output transformerless amps that are among the best sounding you will ever hear. Some of these guys who claim it would be near impossible, don't really know much about audio or it's product history.
I always say .. if you're gonna use a vacuum tube amplifier make sure the output transformer is sectionally wound and uses C-Core magnetics and lastly has a tertiary winding in the cathode circuit .. like the Quad 2
It shoud be preferred, I was very interested in those matters in past and I wanted to fight for it anyway when I aligned my whole system with my PP vintage transformers which I do not know about sectioning and loaded transformer double less than it's capability (I expect it is not sectioned ) it sounds exactly to my wish. .
What do you think of Classé Audio or Oracle turntables, Paul? We sure produce some incredible gear here in Quebec. Cheers from Montreal.
Has anyone ever had any of their electronics cryogenically treated? Any if some difference, I'm seriously considering and just on the fence. Thanks in advance.
I don’t understand why people need to bash Gibson because they wouldn’t buy every product they make. No company including Gibson can be everything for everyone. Buy what makes you happy.
Both tubes and output transformers have their own sound signature and issues
I am always amazed how cheap Chinese tube amps get such good reviews, even from established YT audio channels. I wonder how they manage the output transformers because there are no real shortcuts to them in terms of material cost, design, and labor (though only the first one is a consideration in this case, but I am on thin ice here).
Ehhhh. Sorta kinda. For output transformers that have to deal with a lot of power, it turns out that cheap GOSS laminations are actually a pretty good core material. And if you follow some pretty basic guidelines, you can build a transformer that performs pretty darn well. Especially for a first attempt. From there, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make a couple iterations to fine tune the performance. Will it be the best transformer ever made? No. Obviously not. But the sound quality difference is not enough to justify the price. Especially when you can buy your own CNC winding machine for the price of a pair of decent transformers.
You just answered your own question. Labor cost in China. Sleeping on the factory working almost every hour of the day.
@@brainache555 Yes, however, there is no question asked in my comment.
@@hugobloemers4425 "I wonder how they manage the output transformers because there are no real shortcuts to them in terms of material cost, design, and labor" could be construed as a question.
Remember that china often steals the invention of others so they don't have to spend a long time making something. Therefore the china product is cheaper.
Tubes are expensive hard to run resistive loads. 20.7s require current. Coda Ts v3 800w@4ohm 3kw toroidal, 80k capacitance
20 bi-polar transistors per bank 😊
allnic is one of those rare companies that do it OTL/OCL style
Im on their site and I don't think they do. They have a few phonostages and headphone amps that are otl, but Im not seeing any speaker amp otls.
@@tristanjones7735 mostly their linestage preamps, not all are otl/ocl
Capacitors "have a sound" to them as well ... ultra-linear output transformers
There are no free lunches out there for quality. Some companies outsource labor overseas versus the U.S. so some savings can be had there. I have a pair of tube amps the 452 IQ music block VAC amps from Kevin Hayes out of Florida. As far as tube amps go they are some of the best out there but of course are not cheap. They have a bunch of smaller transformers so that transient response is very fast. With an audio person it comes down to 1. What can you afford to spend? 2.What do you want to spend? I personally love tube amps. Their more natural sound tends to kick the crap out of solid state amps. Some class A amps can sound very good but the heat generated can take away most small to medium size rooms for comfort with listening experience. My tube amps have heat but top off once warmed up and throw off very little heat I don't even notice it after warm up. Tube amps sound great out of the box but tend to really open up after about 1 hour of turn on and play. You have to keep track of hours on the tubes as they hit a tipping point where after so many hours the tubes start declining in performance and time for replacement. For lower budgets the Prima Luna tube amp is very good quality. The tubes that come with it the expansiveness of the stage can seem more constricted. Tube rolling at that level of gear with some vintage stock tubes can give some great results. There are power conditioners for floor level of noise but I believe one of the most often overlooked not that expensive upgrades is having electrician run dedicated power outlets for each amp and pre-amp back to electrical box with 10 gauge copper Romex wire. Having dedicated lines takes out lots of floor noise usually from all plugs in the room being on the same circuit. I used Audioquest power outlets. Part of the art of a good store dealer or going to multiple ones is knowing in your current budget what will give you the most improvement for the hard earned dollars you have to spend. There are tons of ways to improve a system it comes down to money with options. Lots of people chase a flat curve but that can sound awful. Most listeners find some distortion pleasing to the ear. Rolls Royce the car made their interior one time where it had no noise floor where it was like a chamber. The tests almost drove people nuts. The average car DB noise is about 40 so they found 10 was more pleasing but take the noise level down to nothing it made customers very un-comfortable. Most humans do not know it but the ears find some noise level pleasing. There is difference between overall noise level and then a bunch of hums, rings, clicks, pops, and buzzes that are not pleasing. So there is the type of noise and the level of it.
It is no discovery in statement that people feel discomfort in total silence. It wolud be valuable to say why it happens and as for me may be even revolutionary to explain many wizzardy and voodo but looks that konwledge around has high barreiers and effort to jump over is infinite.
Oh, some candidates don't get a partner for life even with glittering jewelry.
Why people even use vacuum tubes, they are so WEAK they do not have any power, maybe 30 watts. Meanwhile transistors are so STRONG they have lots of power, 1000 watts is easy to do.
In a domestic environment normal listening volumes don't need all that much power, especially for acoustic & most classical music, a few watts is usually enough unless you like early hearing loss. What is more important is that an amplifier can cope with short powerful transients, but average long term power levels don't need to be much at all and tube amps are usually quite sufficient.
Of course some specific music genres consist of a continuous barrage of powerful low frequency transients, so you may need a more powerful transistor amp rated for continuous high output power if that is your cup of tea (e.g. drum & bass, hip-hop or Japanese bass Taiko drumming etc.)
Completely useless…