How Tears of the Kingdom Fundamentally CHANGED the Zelda Timeline!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2023
- Maui explains his theory for how the new lore in Tears of the Kingdom changes the Zelda timeline we all know and love! #gambagoons #maui #zelda #timeline #tearsofthekingdom #theory #zeldatearsofthekingdom #zeldatheory #MadeWithMotionCanvas
Link to timeline:
drive.google.com/file/d/1bgL4...
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Wow, thankyou all so much for the overwhelming positive response to the video! But, the timeline does have a few issues as you guys have pointed out.
The big one being that in Skyward Sword the master sword is actually left in the past not the future. But instead of breaking my theory it allows me to go back to a previous idea I had but ultimately threw out. In the cursed timeline since the master sword already exists and has a Fi in it, I don't have to come up with a way for the goddess sword to be forged into the master sword. Rather the goddess sword sitting in skyloft, gives the zonai/picorri a white sword to forge the picorri blade out of. Also, this would mean a new master sword would have to be forged in the triforce timeline, which is supported by the statement in Twilight Princess that the master sword was forged by the ancient sages.
But, there is no timeline break in Skyward Sword... It's a bit sloppy and leaves unanswered questions of continuity, but the story's ending supports the fact that the past and present of the game are indeed connected to the very end.
You should do an updated video with this info. But I love your timeline it still work There is one issue I have with the timeline thought and I have that issue with the Official Legend of Zelda 1 and 2. First were the Princes says all Princessess will be Zelda I know its canon lore but we all know why it was put in to justified the Zelda in Zelda 2 not being the same Zelda from Zelda 1 but being named Zelda. I kind of think Nintendo has moved away from this part of the lore. I would say if we keep the decree then a little more content. should be added sure its headcanon but that to keep with the Traditions of the Past. The other issues I have is No Master Sword I know it was not invented in real life till LTTP but story wise there needs to be a story as to why the Master Sword does not exist given the game's placement in the timeline. And I think I fixed that. The Master Sword Does exist but 1 of 2 things Either 1 Link could not wild it being just 10 years old. And such the Magical Sword was created. Given its the same sword Link has in Zelda 2. Or the Master Sword Transformed it self into a weapon for a child to be able to use. My first idea on it fits more but I like to think the Magicial Sword and the Master Sword do have some kind of conection
@@davidededeed except there is. If demise dies in the past, why have a statue fall in the present
I'd love to chat more about the time line, a lot of people don't acknowledge the timeline breaks (like 7 breaks) in skyward
@@davidededeed Yep SS is a self fulfilling loop a predestined set of events... Zelda goes to the surface and finds herself already sealed in the crystal... Its what Granny shows her to get her to go on the quest to the Skyview and Earth temples. You can see through the gap in the sealed temple early on that Zelda's crystal is there from the beginning. Meaning the quest is to break Zelda from that timeloop. The creation of the hero and the mastersword is Hylia's escape plan. Fi is made to be her replacement keeping the seal on Demise intact.
even if this is unofficial, in my eyes, this feels more canon than the official timeline, the fact that the downfall timeline is actually all of the calamity’s does make a surprising amount of sense, and i’m surprised i never thought of it
It explains how the history of Ganon is also the one of Hyrule.
Or maybe it just doesn’t fit into the timeline. Clearly it has no relation to the original timeline even with reference from it. Botw and totk have to just me there own timeline that only makes sense in a new timeline.
@m_ron2742 but they can't fucking do that if they still want the skyward sword forging of the master sword to be cannon from what we know of the sword in tears of the kingdom,while everything else is just irrelevant. Allowing them to do whatever they want means they have the ability to make 2 more games about the same topic: the creation of the mastersword if they wanted. But I'm sure most pepole DONT want that and just want each game to have its own, unique topic without it being redundant. They got away with it in BOTW and totk because they redefined the whole zelda experience with strong mechanics, but we need more strong narratives that redefined the IP next for it to stay unique IMO. If they want to use gannondorf AGAIN next time, just make him a completely diffrent type of gannondorf whose alignment isn't the same or similar every game, have someone else be an evil individual.
@@Paradox1012 personally
I'd be fine with Ganon. Ganon has been incredibly under utilized in 3D zelda. and before people say "ThEy ArE tHe SaMe" nah fam. a true Ganon fight is a much different beast than any 3D ganondorf fight has been. From invisibility to teleportation to powerful magic to summoning darkness, the spear wielding mage thief Ganon could be amazing in 3D. not some oversized mindless beast that uses brute force, or is super slow and can't hit you, a powerful threat that requires positioning, strategy, and using the tools and experience you gained in your adventure to overcome.
The downfall timeline is "does make a lot of sense" belonging to "the calamity?"
This definitely feels like it fixes the timeline, no one brings up link's time travel in SS, but if oot's events happen in that timeline, this would make perfect sense imo
Yeah, when I was starting to make the timeline, I wanted to do the split at minish cap, but it wasn't working with how tears of the kingdoms story was unfolding. Then, when I started looking at Skyward Sword, it was staring me in the face lol.
i think abt that but then wouldnt demise not be able to curse the hero? bc he was like destroyed. I guess ganondorf doesnt HAVE to be connected to demise. Love this topic would love to discuss more
@@retlr_ He never cursed a hero it's just a translation difference. It is The grudge of the entire Demon Tribe always conflicting with the humans and Gods.
Ganondorf f is a successor of demise not a reincarnation of him.
As long as evil exist A Mortal can always transform into Demon Under certain circumstances.. Ganondorf Became the next Demon King..
@@retlr_ we also gotta remember that Demise is a being that conquered time which would likely make "his" curse one that transcends time.
@@elpopman2055 ah i see, thanks!
The only massive problem with this is how BOTW/TOTK's Hyrule clearly takes place in a land that was once flooded, due to the massive amount of rock salt you find everywhere, which highly likely wasn't an accident given the quality of the rest of the game's subtext. Also, the Rito only canonically appear in both Wind Waker and BOTW/TOTK, which also share a massive amount of thematic notes and little melodies near exclusively with The Wind Waker.
Both of these past two games clearly take place after a time convergence, long after Hyrule was left empty by the disappearance of the Great Sea, and was refounded by a new race, the Zonai.
They even stated in BOTW interviews that it takes place so long after the rest of the games that it's effectively a new timeline/convergence.
Finding rock salt all across the world is common. After all the world used to be one giant ocean when it was cool enough for liquid water to exist, and land masses appeared due to plate tectonic tectonic stuff. A great sea could be talking about that.
rock salt doesn't matter at all and the rito could have evolved again, they're clearly different than the rito in wind waker. perhaps these rito evolved from loftwings.
Well, they didn't say it's effectively a new timeline, but that it's so far ahead that it may as well be at the end of every timeline.
Small correction. The "golden land" isn't a literal Landmass in hyrule. It's the sacred realm of the triforce, a whole different Dimension.
Is that different from the silent realm?
@@CreedoTheGamer Probably not. Since both are used in relation to the triforce. (Birthplace in every game/ Hidingplace in Syward Sword)
@@CreedoTheGamer I mean, how many parallel planes of existence does Zelda have already? IDK, but I think that it's so many that nobody should be surprised when physical manifestations and/ or bridges to them pop in and out, occasionally.
@@Kevin-jb2pv Yes
@@CreedoTheGamer the silent realm from skyward sword is more like an internal world with everyone like link in the game
My only issue with this is that with the "aspect of the hero" armor in totk turning link into the zonai hero that beat ganon, zonai should still be present, and not only as picori, for the calamity where Hyrule won with the help of the sheikah devices. Aside from that detail I really enjoyed the timeline overall.
I was going to state the same, however this is a problem with nearly every timeline, and in fact in between BotW and TotK
If Rauru and Mineru are the last zonai, and died in or right after the imprisoning war (so far in the past the mere myths are fading), HOW TF is the calamity hero, who battled a mere 10.000 yrs ALONG WITH SHEIKA TECH a zonai?
Maybe a Picori reverse evolved back into a zonai? A third zonai remained so in hiding? Is it Rauru's child? Idfk
yeah, and iirc that calamity was at least implied to be the first calamity. It also doesn't make sense to me how Ganon could reincarnate/revive when he's been sealed away by Raaru already, since I figured the reason for the Calamities is because his malice is leaking out as a result of being unable to reincarnate while sealed away.
I like some of the ideas put forth in the video, but it still feels like Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom don't quite fit in with the proposed timeline. I'd say its still more likely that something caused the timelines to merge back together, and the world/history of these two games is a result of the universe trying to account for everything that happened in each timeline in a way that makes sense as a combined whole
@@franciscoguinledebarros4429 Yeah, it is an annoying detail in the games' lore. One answer I can think of, that is in no way backed by any evidence, is that he would have been a product of a triforce wish. Either he was also manifested from a different era or the current hero was transformed into a form more adequate to challenge the calamity.
It could have been one of the descendants of Rauru and Sonia, since the royal family already has zonai DNA
In the end, what bothers me the most is that we may never have an official answer.
@@franciscoguinledebarros4429 they do say Zelda is a descendant of rauru and Sonia. Sonia is a hylian woman but rauru is full zonai. For her to be their descendant there must be hybrid hylian-zonai people descending from rauru and Sonia’s un-revealed children. Maybe when they say the hero was a zonai, they mean descended from zonai, AKA from rauru
Well zonai seems to be dogmen
Monish cap has the dogmen version of Darknuts maybe the zonai didn't all die out but all were corrupted by evil becoming Darknuts and maybe in the future one has conflicting thoughts about being evil
The timeline you created sure sounds very reasonable and possible despite some hiccups.
And it’s kinda funny to imagine that after one of their members and his elder sister become a main part of the Hyrule Kingdom, the rest of the Zonai tribe don’t just hide themselves and live in somewhere anonymous, they committed a “Mass Shrinking” and become another tribe that’s insect sized.
Lol
This is a phenomenal theory! Gonna definitely start sporting this. I’ve always thought the Downfall Timeline wasn’t really a timeline, more of a consequence that doesn’t always happen. Plus there always was the weird time travel shenanigans in SS that wasn’t explored! Love it!
Fr this is a good theory !
That’s dumb. Why wouldn’t the downfall timeline be a thing?
It's basically just an alternate timeline
@@robertwyatt3912it's an alternate timeline there's one created everytime link dies
@@robertwyatt3912 Because it’s the only timeline out of the three that’s conditional. The child and adult timelines run congruent with one another. The DT only happens IF Link dies. Link can’t be both alive for the child and adult timelines and dead for the downfall.
Finally SOMEONE talks about the possibility of TOTK not only being from a split around the time of Skyward Sword but also taking the entire Downfall Timeline with it. While I still think the rest of the timeline is the same besides the Downfall Timeline being basically moved, props for being the only other person I've seen suggest this theory because, while I can't say how much I believe it over the simple history repeating theory, it does seem to be heavily what the writers are trying to suggest.
I love the idea that the villains of the downfall timeline are the Calamities, and the Zonai descending from the heavens and founding Hyrule sounds like an alternate take on the ending of Skyward Sword, which can easily imply a timeline split. The only problem is that Link leaves the Master Sword in the past and it ends up in the present when he goes back, but Skyward Sword's time travel makes no sense in general so I can overlook it. Maybe the timelines were somewhat connected still and only fully split afterwards, idk.
Damn Zelda really just flew around as a dragon through all that
I knew I wasn't the only one that was confused by Four Swords Adventures not being directly connected to the 2 other games that feature Vati. It's interesting that for years no one ever mentioned a timeline split after Skyward Sword but within the last few weeks, it has become the talk of the town and fixes many aspects of the timeline. With Age of Calamity being a split timeline almost all the Zelda games can now be accounted for.
@Barley AoC was confirmed canon by Nintendo.
Cause Aonuma said it was a sequel to FS not a direct sequel. While the intro may imply the possibility, the state of the Four Swords Sanctuary says otherwise. Seeming to indicate several centuries passing.
Last timeline theory I've seen that takes the SS time travel into account threw in the idea that it created a timeline where the Goddess Sword was eventually forged into the Four Sword instead of the Master Sword.
It's always fun to see different takes on the story/timelines
Love the theory, I do see two potential issues with it revolving around Tear's Ganon. While everyone (including myself) treats Tears as a closed causality loop, there are two odd things that push against that notion. Rauru directly comments that there was a timeline where zelda did not appear, and more interestingly to me, Demon King Ganon says "I've seen this before!" right before being sealed, implying he maybe retained memory of a previous cycle of those events or timelines. Hard to say on that one without DLC, but its an extremely odd line.
Additionally, mummy-ganon views Tear's Link as the Link Rauru directly tells him about. This ones less of a pain point if the calamity ganons dont have a true connection to the original 'dorfs sapience, which does track with botws calamity, but it is worth noting. He doesn't seem to have memories of fighting heroes in the past (though if the ancient hero zonai was named Link then that safely can be sidestepped).
Im pretty sure the “I’ve seen this before” from Ganondorf is just referring to when puppet Zelda threw the dagger at Sonia and real Zelda used recall to reflect it
I think Rauru was just wrong when he suggested a timeline without Zelda already there. Learning that she came from the future suggests to him that the timeline changed, but Zelda did come from a timeline where she'd already gone back -- the murals covered by rocks in the opening cutscene are the same as what you see later, showing Zelda eating the stone and rising as a dragon.
Rauru was mistaken, that's it, the murals we see right at the beginning before she time travels AS WELL As the fact ganondorf mentions both zelda AND link by name when the seal breaks means that there probably wasnt a timeline zelda never arrived to the past-- (and even if there was it wouldn't make a difference as her being in the past doesn't actually change anything prior to botw or even the time after it her actions in the past only ever serve to shape what happens after she initially gets recalled back into time)
I really like this timeline, I had thought the only reasonable way to explain TOTK was simply an alternate timeline entirely, but I really like how this ties back into skyward sword, and the OG zelda games too
It makes sense with all of the games on the switch too with skyward sword botw and totk
I always thought that the “Hero Defeated” timeline should have been called the “Hero Abandoned” timeline and it’s the timeline that Link “abandons” when he travels back in time to being a kid in OoT throughout the game. Not at the very end by Zelda, but while you are playing the game and are required to go back in time to progress the story.
Wouldn't make sense as Ganondorf needs the full triforce in order for ALttP to work. Which we know he has before the fight against Ganondorf.
@@firionkaiser8291 While the method behind it isn’t clear, when a person with part of the Triforce travels back in time, their Triforce piece doesn’t just disappear forever from that timeline. Link still has the Triforce of Courage when he is sent back in time at the end of the game and creates the Child Timeline, but the Tri Force still fully exists in the Adult Timeline. So if Link “abandoned” a timeline by traveling back to his childhood before defeating Ganon, the Triforce of Courage would still exist in that timeline but there wouldn’t be a Hero to defeat Ganon.
@@1.21jiggawatts2 Yeah but my point is that Ganondorf wasn't fit to gain the Triforce of Courage, otherwise he would've had it already prior to Link waking up as an adult. OoT was the game that established that Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf have to fight for the battle of the full triforce as none of them are balanced with all three. So the question would then be, how did he get the Triforce of Courage? Did he ever capture Zelda to get the Wisdom half?
Hope my questions aren't coming off as aggressive but I'm genuinely curious as to how you would make this split work.
In lore some of the OoT sages were confirmed to have their names used as the name of the towns due to the events of OoT, so up until the Spirit Temple most of them would have been around and ready to take on Ganondorf but they would still need Nabooru which would require Link's to go back to the adult timeline.
One issue with this theory as it is now is the picori being the zonai. As seen in the swearing fealty memory, Ganondorf states that Rauru and his sister are the last zonai. This seems like it world make it hard for the Four Swords games to happen after Rauru. In an unreleated note, I'd like to point out it's stated in one of the books that the gerudo ears became pointed later in the timeline due to hearing the goddess and the gerudo behind Ganondorf in the memory have pointed ears indicating either they heard the goddess sooner than their OoT counterparts or that they occurred later in the same timeline. I am curious if theres any depiction of gerudo ears in FSA. Interesting video though, has me rethinking my personal head canon for the timeline.
You could interpret what Rauru said as him and his sister being the last of the zonai that hasn't become a picori.
Another thing that doesn’t make sense is how there is other gammons after the imprisoning war. And if you talk about gannon in botw that wasn’t gannon that was malice that came from gannon
Mineru and Rauru died so there wouldn't be any Picori to begin with
@@theshellyissmallshow9933 I don't know word for word how the male gerudo king thing works, but if it just happens a set amount of years, then it wouldn't be determined by how many exist at once. The issue would be the triforce, but I don't know if that causes any conflicting issues in this timeline
@@CastlevaniaDXC The other Zonai could have changed before they died
that timeline reveal was legit amazing, great work and even before you gave your reasons it just made sense. well done!
I love how the music crescendos right as the new timeline gets revealed, as if it's telling you "finally, someone fixed this damn thing"
This is really well made, you deserve more subscribers
Thx man!
Not gonna lie man, this video was a breath of fresh air. Thanks for all your work on it. I’ve been scratching my head on making totk fit into the timeline and this is a good theory. I do have a couple of questions. How do you explain all the references to the other split in ss seen in botw and totk? Like how the faces of other Goron heroes are carved into death mountain or how there are recorded histories of princess Ruto in the Zora province? Zelda also makes mention of the heroes of time and twilight in botw as well. My other question is the calamity of 10,000 years ago. It’s implied in totk if you do all the shrines that the hero was a Zonai. If that’s the case where we’re the Zonai/picori all the time after the four swords trilogy? My last question and I guess it’s less of a question and just an observation is that in totk memory 12, Rauru speaks with the sages in the forgotten temple in the very spot where the Hylia status should be, before he goes through the secret stone door. So were Hylia statues not a thing in those flashbacks?
Anyway, this is one of the best theories I’ve seen post totk release. Well done!
I was going to say it was from ocarina of time for Ruto part but remember that it was not that timeline split so good question
For All the similarities something we don’t know off must have happened at some point
The idea that botw is the merging of all timelines can also be adopted to this new timeline theory. That will explain all the references
You can still perceive the timelines still all linking back to botw happening and totk
I haven't thought through all the implications yet, but Game Theory had a video a few years ago where they argue that _Hyrule Warriors_ rejoined the timeline prior to _Breath of the Wild._ Some of their ideas are obsolete now that we have _Tears of the Kingdom,_ but the basic idea could work. Cia's shenanigans caused multiple universes to bridge together, and that somehow caused memories or stories to be shared.
Fan made timelines always seemed more accurate than the official ones.
This one solves a lot of contradictions. Well done.
There are issues, yes, but someone, for the life of me, PLEASE explain how tf multiple timelines can converge and act like everything that happened in every timeline is canon to the converging one, yet no references to a time convergence exist, anywhere. This makes much more sense than "BotW is combining all the timelines" Like BS, you just want goofy easter eggs and an easy way to wrap things up, despite the fact it doesn't make sense. It would make more sense if it was that all the timelines lead to the same point in reality, where there was a sort of predestined fate, and Hyrule was guaranteed to become it no matter the timeline. But that doesn't exist, and we'd still have to worry about all the weird armor in TotK. I'm half convinced that the armor shouldn't be considered canon, like what do we do with a zonai warrior outfit, a character that SHOULD NOT be possible, or Wind Waker, Twilight princess, Skyward Sword, Majora's Mask, Ocarina of Time, etc. all have unique outfits. So this makes even more sense than the predestined fate idea! Well done!
I still like the dragon break theory( a blip in the timeline where multiple contradictory events happen and are all true once the dragon break ends. This comes from The Elder Scrolls games. [the concept was made to make all endings of daggerfall cannon]) where OoT Zelda accidently created a dragon break (hence the 3 timelines) and ToTk Zelda ended the dragon break at a later point of time.
Same, it makes more sense to me
what about age of calamity?
that creates two more timelines since zelda wouldnt likely be an adult nor alive in totk in the age of calmity timelkine
i see a lot about aoc being not canon but its all simply because it conflicts with canon
yea time travel does that
i think age of calmity easily can be canon and would just result in another timeline but for some reason people just choose to completely ignore it
@@thothgod420 itd be like a weird parallel timeline
@thothgod114 I think that, in order for the timelines to merge in Zelda, a long time has to pass. AoC happened to recently to merge back into the main timeline
@@thothgod420Age of Calamity is a timeline break that actually happens after the Dragonbreak closes.
This is an amazing theory, 100% fixes the whole Zelda timeline
Completely, even if the timeline is basically quite chaotic 😅
At least until the next game comes out and retcons a bunch of lore and breaks it again.
I'm thoroughly convinced the writers don't give a damn about the timeline at this point.
Nintendo has all but directly stated it's up to the fans to piece the games together if you really want a timeline, and anything can get retconned at any time.
@@wesnohathas1993they don't have writers in the traditional sense
@@derrickcrowe3888 And then we can say that half of the lore in that game is not important, and the other half either splits the timeline or just... adjusts some things. Like, where did new monsters come from in this direct sequel? They were always there, you just never had to fight them! It feels like many new monsters in TotK were meant to feel like they were always there, and people act like they were, so they didn't just appear after the upheaval
Even tho this fixes some parts of the timeline, it has a lot of plotholes regarding all the items in totk that are from past games, the references of the twilight in botw and most importantly the ancient hero set you get from getting all shrines in totk...
I have always been more interested in the abandoned timeline theory from OoT but I don't mind this one too much appart from the fact that the gurodo themselves have sated that there was a forgot tradition of males being born every hundred years or so but it has happened for a very long time so how could Ganondorf appear in minish cap?
In this theory, he actually appears during four swords/four swords adventures. But the idea I have here is that the gerudo don't actually stop having male children, rather after 2 of them become evil they stop treating gerudo males as gerudo. And so far in the future it would be more of a forgotten tradition.
@Gamba Goons and that's why you're wrong.
@@gambagoons I got the games mixed around when I was writing the comment. My bad on that front. However, just because they throw out the tradition of appointing the king doesn't mean that the males would stop being born. The only one I would see making more sense while also being rather dark is that just just kill any male born gerudo which the kingdom of hyrule might not agree with or support. We know that by the time of TotK that Link is allowed to enter the town so they do make exceptions to their rules for royalty still. It could just as easily be a case where both the abandoned OoT timeline applies and the Already Saved timeline from SS have their own branches course I don't think people would like the idea of a fourth timeline being added to the multivese. However, a point could be made that the Minish don't exist in the BotW timeline due to the fact that you can't find rupees or the like in the tall grass or bushes anymore.
@@gambagoons You forgot that in BotW/TotK is was confirmed by Aonuma and even in game evidence that OoT did happen in the world of their era.
Just letting you know, that ALttP line about the master sword was added into the English version of the ALttP manual and was never canon to the Japanese version. Zelda in Twilight princess does mention the ancient sages forged the master sword though (All versions). And the Oocca from TP also came from the heavens like the Minish and Zonai I think. I do think using SS for the timesplit is interesting. Glad more people agree FSA is a direct sequel right after FS.
In SS the 6 sage medallions are present in the architecture at the sealed grounds and the statue of Hylia, implying that there were at least 6 sages at the time of Demise's battle with Hylia - we can assume therefore that they were responsible for the creation of the Goddess sword and Fi - and possibly the sacred flames and songs used to access the silent realms. So althought the sword was forged by Link the pieces were already there.
@@RG-Zeldaplayer the symbols aren't the meant to represent the sages themselves but the elements. And it's been stated Hylia crafted the Goddess sword only.
@@EvyDevy The symbols are a heavy suggestion that the sages were around in the time of Hylia and the goddess sword IS the Master sword in its primordial form.
@@RG-Zeldaplayer I mean doesn't suggest anything about the sages. The symbols likely predate the sages themselves and are more about the elements. And once again, the Hylia created the Goddess Sword by herself.
@@EvyDevy Its an extraordinary coincidence that the 6 symbols representing the 6 sages of Ocarina of time are present at the temple of Hylia... The fact they are the same symbols suggests to me that they are more than mere elemental symbols and are meant to represent the sages themselves. These are the same symbols that also appear in Twilight Princess. The only places where these symbols have ever been used in any of the games are in reference to the sages so it makes no sense to dismiss them as mere elemental motifs. Nowhere in any game does it state that Hylia created the mastersword alone... In fact we know Hylia ruled amongst the humans and had followers - the Sheikah... We are told categorically that there is a pre-existing human society prior to SS which could easily have included sages amongst their number... Sages who could have assisted Hylia in creating the sword and the goddess flames.
While I'm somewhat melancholic about having finished TotK, I now get to revel in all of the theories!
i know a few people already said this but you really deserve more subscribers. You explained this so well and the editing was amazing
Nice job man that was one of if not the best zelda video ive seen thank you so much!
My only problem with this timeline is that in BotW we have facts that tell us that OoT happened, like the Ruto's name on the Zora's monuments, or Urbosa talking about Nabooru
You can always assume that the Ruto and Nabooru mentioned in BotW are different versions of them.
In fact, if we use the timeline in this video as a baseline, we could have OoT and the flashbacks from TotK happen at the same time, but in different branches, which would explain why Ganondorf's plan was very similar, AND It could even be that the nameless Gerudo and Zora sages from TotK, are actually Nabooru and Ruto from this branch.
I'm making all this up, but I think it's an explanation that could somewhat fit very well.
Love this theory! This definitely makes a lot more sense than the current timeline. I agree with you that the fallen timeline doesn’t make sense where it is (or anywhere) since link could literally die anywhere and create a new timeline. Great work!
imo it makes way more sense if you see ocarina of time as a prequel to a link to the past that shows ganondorf on screen. because if you recall, ganondorf was introduced during a monologue by one of the sages in a link to the past, and hes talked about in a way that can't make sense with OOT's story having an ending where ganon loses.
it only plays out like that because thats the only way you could really say that ganon from OOT is the same guy as ganon from a link to the past. and thats what the oracle games directly show, since that game has the same version of link from a link to the past.
its the fault of OOT for being a weird half-prequel, and then the oracle games for definitively connecting the two.
My only gripe with that is I feel people think about it the wrong way, think of it from a story standpoint, in normal movie or video game the main character isn’t gonna die halfway through the story, which is why ganon specifically kills link in the final battle creating that timeline, Ik it’s plot armor but we can’t really think that it would create a new timeline everytime we die in game right? Lol however I do agree the downfall timeline is confusing and contradictory, which stinks because in my opinion it’s a really interesting take on things for the series, I mean, ganon kills the hero? That’s not supposed to happen!
amazing video!! keep it up the great work plss!!
im your 245th sub and i say you did a great job, hope to see more of your ideas to come
The one problem I have is the references shown in BOTW are from the separated timelines that you have(the knighting ceremony memory, I think it’s memory 5) it mentions Twilight Princess, Wind Waker and other games that I don’t remember
The dialogue could be essentially just an Easter egg for the player and nothing more. There's no more than just a couple words that hint at their main concepts.
Those should be taken as situations in which the hero COULD be involved while carrying the Master Sword.
@@melonzy8 Yes this is what I think, as in the game (as well as TOTK as far as I know) none of the NPC's mention anything about the DLC armor relating to past Zelda games. So to me that is enough proof that it doesn't exist XD
I agree with what your saying it does contradict this timeline. From what I've though is maybe the even Zelda mentions are just myths and legends in this time line (where in others they are real) this would explain why some characters and names carry over but not all of them are the same. Like Beattle being a salesman but not on a ship in this timeline. and location like ranch ruins and temple of time ruins are things we think are those original places but in the world of the game are just locations named that. It's like meeting a guy who likes cars then going to another timeline meeting the same guy and assuming he likes cars cause your version of him does. Where this new version doesn't
@@BigMeatBall_ That is true however in past games the Rito have only appeared in Windwaker(yes phantom hourglasse and the games that are chronologically sequels as well) so how would the Rito be in botw/totk? Its not just legends its the species that also don't add up
(i didn't include it in original post cause i just thought of it lol)
There are a few problems that weren’t before. Even with all the added games into the third timeline, there is still a huge amount of lines and relics of the child and adult timelines. One of which was Zant‘s helmet in totk. How could this appear in a different timeline than Twilight Princess
the merging timelines theory could still be implemented into this if you assume that the timelines converge starting at breath of the wild. honestly idk LOL
@@alejandrosantos5328 As Long as this timeline stays non-canon, they could merge at Hyrule Warriors before Botw
@@FireFoxie1345 the same reason rito and zora are in the same timeline when rito was supposed to be evolved from the zora
I've never seen the armor pieces that are references to other games as actually canon. Like, Majora's Mask ending up in some random chest in Hyrule is impossible. They're there as fun nods and cool character customization, not meant to be treated as canon.
@@jonathanweinberg2874 We still need the child timeline from where majora’s is from. The child timeline is the only one with friendly Zoras. I also think they have the closest looking Gorons.
Very interesting timeline. This has to be the best one I have seen so far! Nice job you deserve more views.
I always thought the whole impa's bracelet thing in Skyward Sword was made SPECIFICALLY to say that there was no split and that it was all a perfect time loop.
Great video! One thing I’d like to note is that when you complete all the shrines in totk, you gain a full re-skin costume of the hero of the calamity legend in botw who looks zonai. That means that it has to be one of the first calamities since the zonai were still around (I’d say before Minish Cap).
Other than that, everything looks great! 👍
Are we sure thats a zonai that the heros aspect transforms into, ears arnt as long and he has a tail, looks like another possible race
@@amyeasler2086 it definitely is a zonai. Rauru and Mineru look different from one another, yet both of them are Zonai. That hero is definitely a zonai, simply a bit different from the single two we are shown. Plus we're told that Zelda could be a descendant in some way of Rauru and Sonia, yet the two of them are never shown having any offspring. There could be some successor, although not shown, and that hero could really well be an hylian-zonai hybrid. By not having other zonai the bloodline would've been diluted and become more and more Julian, eventually fading
I really only have one question on this, and that is how items from the other timeline appear in Tears of the Kingdom without the use of amiibo. Since you can find items like the Fierce Deity set, Sheik's mask, and the Twilight Princess armor set in Tears of the Kingdom without using amiibo, how does that work if they're not in the same timeline? I loved the video! Have a great day!
5:40 I started off doubting you but as soon as the timeline started to lay out, I was like "Oh my god. This makes sense."
This is fun, finally more people releasing their theories. I like to think that finding the tunics of past heroes in the depths is the confirmation of the names and other references of previous games, and not just for game purposes, and that there had to be a clash of timelines that we simply havent played, seen or been told about before botw/totk
this deserves way more views
This is a great video
This is actually a genuinely great interpretation of what the timeline can be. Great video my friend! :)
I actually had a similar thought when I finished tears of the kingdom, but you lay it out so much better. I like it alot
Another neat thing about this theory is that it explains why the temple of time is still on the great sky island, as Link wouldn’t bring it down in that timeline. So the Skyloftians becoming the Zonai lines up with them inhabiting the great sky island if you want to believe that’s Skyloft
We see the Sky Island's Temple of Time on the ground in the Memories though.
@@EpsilonD2 yeah i hadnt finished the game before commenting
the thing that breaks this theory as it is now, Zelda makes reference to previous games in the first BoTW memory. Though the timeline split of SS makes perfect sense. The way i interpreted ToTK is that with the absence of a calamity and usage of the triforce, the timelines stabilized and converged (entropy). However, the process caused catastrophes all across Hyrule, culminating in the destruction of the original kingdom and the survivors only holding mere myths of every hero that they couldn't confirm. The Zonai, being descendants of the gods, recognized their error in what caused the split in the first place and descended to rebuild what their ancestors indirectly destroyed. Rauru and Sonia history plays out the same.
Unless, Hyrule Warriors is canon and the timeline convergence allowed the sharing of stories and legends to cross over.
I don't understand what people mean by "the timeline converging", how should that happen? Link in OOT can not have been successful and unsuccessful at the same time. Or is there something I'm unaware of?
@@mikereisert2803 In Hyrule Warriors, Cia the evil half of the goddess of time connects several timelines together. Allowing characters from all timelines to interact. Whether you accept it as canon or not it's in a game published by Nintendo, and the only plausible explination for a "convergance".
We're also trying to abolish the "hero was defeated" split, since it's not a timeline, it's an Alternate Universe (and I don't think anyone liked the idea tbh). Time lines can "converge" but AUs need some sort of multiverse connector event, which hasn't happened in any game. So it's pure speculation with no supporting evidence.
The problem with nintendo for me is they say age of calamity is cannon but the first game isnt? I think hyrule warriors is cannon if the second game didnt make it clear that timelines can split and merged.
@@adammorin2955 age of calamity isnt canon. its an alternate story with several key points that differs it from canon, an example being that link already possessed the master sword for some time before AoC.
5:41, even when ignoring that Skyward Sword literally tells about the origins of the Master Sword, this is in direct conflict with the Master Sword's existence in OoT, TWW, and TP.
Great video!
Wow this is the first time i heard a fanmade timeline better than the original
My pitchfork is that The hero that the ancient hero appears to be Zonai (the Ancient Hero's aspect) which is the one depicted in the sealing war mural... idk how that fits into any timeline :/
i was already keen on the idea of totk changing the way the fallen hero timeline fits in, as well as the zonai being related to the picori. so id say this is a good proposal
Finally someone talks about Skyward Sword creating a timeline split, we need more videos with people realizing it.
Just want to say that when Link wears the ancient heroes aspects and talks to Purah, she describes him as the ancient hero from 10,000 years ago. Why was a zonai wielding the master sword at that time?
Well, I was thinking. There's something weird about the heroes aspect. He looks somewhat zonai..but..He also has Hylian ears. If he was zonai, he would have huge ears that sported the same fur as his hair. So here's what I'm thinking. He's some sort of Zonai Hylian hybrid. He looks like a mix between how hylians looked and how zonai looked at the time. He has a tail, and feet paws, but elven ears and short red hair. Seems.. suspicious.
Perhaps the ancient hero had some sort of connection to Link’s spirit. Every incarnation of Link has the spirit of the FIRST Link. However, Link wasn’t around at the time Hyrule was established in the past in Tears of The Kingdom. BUT! I’m now thinking about it, and I don’t think that was a Zonai. When you clear all the shrines in TOTK, your reward is a replica of what the ancient hero looked like. It doesn’t look exactly like the Zonai race, as the tail is not seen with Rauru.
Hang on…what if this is like the gerudo women finding a hylian male. Maybe the ancient hero COULD be Rauru’s and Sonia’s child…tho Sonia *dolphin noise* died so…
Maybe it’s something else
That was technically the true 1st link the one we don't see his spirit is the spirit of the hero that each link has
I’m glad someone finally brought up the 2nd timeline in Skyward Sword in relation to TotK.
It makes more sense to me that BotW and TotK are the only games in this timeline though. Here’s why:
In the new timeline there was no need to find the Triforce to defeat demise so it was never located, which is why it’s never seen or mentioned in BotW or TotK. Zelda’s power is simply a result of the goddess and Zonai power in her bloodline.
As for the Master Sword, Link places the Master Sword into the pedestal in the past at the end of Skyward Sword which is at the beginning of this timeline. So there is a Master Sword on the ground and the Goddess Sword in Skyloft at the same time, which explains why the Master Sword is in BotW and why both the Master Sword and Goddess Sword are in TotK at the same time.
With Ganondorf having been sealed after the alternate events similar to OoT, he never gets the Triforce (because it’s never been found) instead going for the most powerful item he knows, the Zonai stones. Without the Triforce he can never turn into his physical beast form, Ganon. So, none of the Downfall Timeline games could work because there is no physical Ganon, only a sealed away Ganondorf.
Through the Malice-made Calamity Ganon we only see a shadow of what could have been the physical Ganon.
I hope this makes sense.
I like this theory, but I thought the master sword was placed in the pedestal in their time. I'll have to go double check.
@@gambagoons I appreciate your video. It’s a nice change from all the circular timeline theories that make no sense
Personally I disagree that no one ever knew about the Triforce in BoTW and ToTK. The amount of Triforce imagery is too much to be nothing. For example, Hyrule castle has a big Triforce in the throne room (at the top). Also, Zelda's hand when using her sealing power is literally a triforce. Finally the Hyrulian crest has a triforce. There's no doubt that by at least 10,000 years before BoTW, they found the Triforce (the reason I'm saying it's at least 10,000 years before it is because Impa's mural shows the Princess with the same sealing power our Zelda has). Now, whether they know what it is, is debatable. It is true that no spoken mention of the Triforce is in these games, so there's that. My theory is that they used the Triforce to put the Triforce into every Zelda, until the next Zelda. Because they put the Triforce into the princesses, its power has slightly changed. Instead of being able to grant wishes and give each 3 users an augmented ability of either power, wisdom, or courage, it instead is used to magnify the light force/ sealing magic in each Zelda when they possess it.
Side note: Why is it called the triforce? Because it should really be called the 9force. I'm saying this because the names of the 3 pieces: The TRIFORCE of power, the TRIFORCE of wisdom, and the TRIFORCE of courage. So either we need to change the names of the 3 powers, or we need to change the Triforce's name.
@GLUTEN TAG the neinforce from austria
@@bigbrainedSteve 😘
That was awesome! Thanks for the video dude. Ive played probably only 60% of the games but this made so much sense to me.
This is such a well produced video! I'd never thought about the zelda timeline in that way! I've been trying to work out where totk could fit!
the only problem I have with this timeline (and the official timeline for that matter) is that the rito evolved from the zora as shown in windwaker, so the rito existing at the same time as the zora in whatever timeline botw and totk take place in implies that either the rito were a secluded faction from the rest of the zora, or that a timeline merge happened which would be what your timeline is trying to disprove
I wonder if the answer lies somewhere in the stormwind ark legend as told in totk. It suggests the Rito lived on the ark for generations. Either that is where they evolved to become Rito from Zora or maybe Rito evolved a long time before any game but have been living in the sky on the ark until the events of Windwaker and the calamity of 10,000 years ago
I have always believed that Hyrule Warriors must be canon to fix this problem and explains the merging timelines
@@velociraptor4365 If age of calamity is cannon why cant the first game be cannon to yano?
Ok but this is genius
My favorite part about video essays like this, is that it feels like far more thought, effort, and care went into it and crafting its details then Nintendo. One man with less then a thousand followers against a titan of the industry. Excellent work, friend.
There’s still a lot of problems with this too and I know there always will be since there wasn’t supposed to be any timeline to begin with. For example all the outfits of wind walker and twilight princess links can be found in tears of the kingdom so that doesn’t make sense (especially since they aren’t locked by amibo) not to mention skyward swords time travel is a different theoretical time travel then ooc’s. Then you get into age of calamity and that makes a whole other timeline split and it’s just a huge mess. I like some of the ideas but others just seem a bit off, but I like the work and the video itself. Keep it up
This guy is an actual genius!
You deserve more subscribers.
how in the world is your channel so small? That video was absolutely excellent and whether or not it fits the canon properly, which honestly nothing can, it was extremely well made and entertaining. Kudos to you man. You've gained a subscriber
Im just going to mention that Rauru says "But Remember, That was a future where you never appeared in the world" which an in-universe confirmation of branching times lines
Yes, while there is technically another split here. Zelda didn't change much, the only things she changed were her flying around repairing the master sword, mineru in the purchase pad, and the dragon tears sitting there. All of the other events would still take place. You can also say that the changes she made weren't drastic enough to cause a tineline split, rather they just caused those things to suddenly appear when zelda went back in time.
I think Rauru was simply wrong there. Ganondorf knew Zelda's name, it means that it was a future where Zelda has appeared in the past. She could tell Rauru "But Ganondorf knew my name so it means I was here in the past and we lost that fight despite my presence", and then Rauru would understand that he was wrong with his previous statement.
@@mikos5847 that can easily be explained by the fact gannondorf could make magic copies of anyone to use as spies...
@@gambagoons all g, I'm not making any assumptions as to how it changed the timeline.
Only that this line of dialogue is an in-universe confirmation of branching timelines. And given that he is married to the original time sage, I'd say they would be a credible authority on how time works
@@EvilNickolas It's not only that dialogue with Ganondorf, it's also the murals hidden behind rocks showing that she was indeed there in the past in the fight with Ganondorf and also that later she got the broken master sword and became a dragon.
And the most obvious thing to me - if this was true: "But remember, that was a future where you never appeared in this world" then there would be no Light Dragon in that future, but obviously she is there.
Dang Maui good video 😁
Thx bro!
so like... is it not obvious that the tears of the kingdom "past" is after the rest of the timeline? like that is so much simpler than a timeline split.
I've seen that theory, but it would require explaining a fall of the kingdom, and establishment of a new one that happens to be named the same thing and contains the same symbolism even tho it was founded by a different people. Also, it's not really a new timeline split, rather rebasing the downfall timeline.
@@gambagoons So basically Greece and Rome.
@@gambagoons it doesn't need justification, its happened multiple times in the franchise. Hyrule is destroyed multiple times, look at wind waker. LoZ is a game about cycles,
Yes, I am on board mostly with this theory.
We've seen how many times Hyrule was destroyed, and it wouldn't be a big surprise that at one moment the kingdom collapsed.
@@gambagoons Handwaving a random fall of the kingdom is easier than trying to fit TotK's past anywhere in the current, established timeline(s); even if we try to remodel it, and handwave all other games (mostly) away as "legends".
Having it be called Hyrule makes sense, because the people living there are still Hylians and their Goddess is named Hylia.
I love this. Great job!
Love this, i really enjoy the zonai and picora being the same as well. Very well done.
honestly I think that the official timeline was just thrown together by a bunch of people who've never even played the games, but just was told one of them involves time traveling. anyway, your timeline actually makes alot of sense and cleared up some of my thoughts about the series, thank you!
also remember nintendo claimed to say we can change the timeline whenever new details come to light. That basically means they are clueless to the timeline then we are
This is a well made timeline, imagine this appearing in a new hyrulian book thing
That would be sick lol
My theory is that Hyrule fell sometime after The Adventure of Link (Downfall, Hyrule re-relocated to the southwest of Death Mountain)/Four Swords Adventures (Child)/Spirit Tracks (Adult, relocated to the once-flooded Old Hyrule after it rose from the sea), and the one Rauru and Sonia founded was only the most recent iteration. For evidence, Rauru says that him and Sonia are the king and queen who founded Hyrule, or at least the last time he checked. This leaves room for the Hyrule founded in Skyward Sword, and the one founded in the interim of Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.
Thus, nothing is retconned. Also, the Downfall Timeline needs Link to die during the final fight with Ganon at the end of OOT to work, because he briefly lost the Master Sword, allowing for a timeline where Ganon completes the Triforce, but gets imprisoned in the Sacred Realm.
Hey, this is fantastic and arguably presents a better understanding of the lore of the series compared to way more popular Zelda Timeline discussions both pre and post TotK's release here. I also really appreciate your understanding of time travel as a mechanic (I've found WAY too many popular Zelda timeline videos where it genuinely feels like the author of the video had a very weird idea of how time travel worked that went against a lot of known facts about the games themselves) and the description of the Downfall timeline as a "What-if" scenario, which is exactly how I describe it to people when talking about why it's a problem when compared to the other more concrete two that can co-exist at the same time. One question, though: have you heard of the Accursed Timeline Theory? It presents the same idea of Skyward Sword causing the Downfall Timeline rather than OoT's what-if scenario. It's not identical to yours, but it has a lot of similarities and is the only other major theory put forth by fans that agrees with your analysis of AlttP's Master Sword backstory as a basis for a drastically different timeline that spun off thanks to Skyward Sword (if interpreted as such, rather than the "closed loop" that the in-game text would imply). Give it a Google, there's a publicly available PDF document about it, and I think it's really great. Though, I really like how you made TotK's backstory of the founding of Hyrule as a parallel, alternate universe version of Ocarina of Time; I think that's just perfect, honestly.
I'm still watching the video, but I already love it!
If only nintendo watches this video and fixe their own timeline!
The only big issue I'd say there is with this timeline, is how two Ganondorfs exist at the same time. This is why I personally think the events of past TOTK happen at the end of whichever timeline it's in (in my opinion a convergence) after the kingdom of Hyrule has completely collapsed and been refounded.
I generally like your SS split though.
My guess is that TotK happens so far in the future that Hyrule itself ended and was re-established (like the end of Wind Waker) and no one knows about the Ganon/Link/Zelda resurrection anymore. We’ve lost most of our actual knowledge from 2,000+ years ago
I thought the same thing abt the fallen hero timeline, your timeline surprisingly makes sense!
This is my head cannon now. The Skyward Sword Split was an amazing idea.
I like your take on it, if Minish Cap does happen after the First Calamity, i'd love to see a DLC for TOTK showing Vaati being unsealed
Very well done!
Very well made!
This makes way more sense, Nice one !!! 😁
RIP to the Basketball timeline, you will be missed
Wow! Nice job!
After watching, I truly understand and this fixes the many questions of the timeline, except for one small detail hidden in totk/botw, the hero's aspect, and award for completing all the shrines in totk. I believe the the first calamity and the invention of the sheikh devices to be around the founding of Hyrule/the invention of Zoni devices.
Unequivocally, the best timeline I've seen. I've been trying to piece together just BoWT and ToTK, and this was the best video explaining it
Finally someone that understands that the calamity of 10,000 years ago isn’t the first calamity but at least the second
Loved it!!!
Honestly it’s crazy that randomly saying the picori snd the zonai are the same completely fixes the timeline and makes it way cleaner. That being said: loved it!
This is so beautiful! Not only does this work so well, the fact you even acknowledge a timeline split in Skyward Sword shows you go by what's in the games, not by joining the bandwagon.
I found it a little interesting that you compared the zonai to the picori/minish, despite the Zelda wiki comparing the zonai to the ooca from Twilight Princess instead. The ooca, like the zonai, were also people who descended from the sky, created advanced tech, were said to be like gods, and were involved with the founding of Hyrule.
Problem is that now you need to explain why Zelda in BoTW knows about Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, why the Rock Salt's description mentions the Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass, how the Fierce Deity armor exists in ToTK as a buried treasure, and why the Rito exist at the same time as the Zora
One thing that I always felt was a good evidence for Four Swords Adventures being an alternate origin story for ALttP Ganon was that the GBA port of ALttP has the Four Sword Palace in the Golden Pyramid, guarded by four Link doppelgangers. It's a bonus dungeon, but it's in the game and could easily be used as evidence to say that this was left behind after Ganon broke free from imprisonment from the Four Sword.
I feel like TotK is just so far in the future that Hyrule fell and Raru founded the current Hyrule
Really good work with the timeline. Now I have a new head canon living rent free in my head where there is a three timeline split in SS where the third timeline is just instead of Hyrule its called Grooseland just for the sake of having a timeline tri-split from a single game.
This theory works, but I believe the divergent timeline got restored into one by Zelda as a dragon. Repairing the master sword, the sword of time, the literal key of time. Fixing a previous incarnations blunder by creating the divergent timelines in the first place. Making a new history. A stable timeloop instead of a one way master sword hunt.
Playing the game ib the first ever intro made me realise this Timeline and i waited this kind of video
This is exactly what I’ve been saying so I started working on a timeline with a split starting in skyward sword!! This video is awesome!!
Saving this in my history for after I beat the game. This has been really pacing through my mind.
This is my headcanon now. It makes so much more sense.
Amazing how this basically comes down to a writing challenge. To make 3 decades of standalone stories somehow work together is a Pixar Theory level feat.
I think Din, Naydra, and Farosh themselves were zonai, who swallowed their secret stones to become Dinraal, Naydra, and Farosh
Amazing theory !!