Why Overpressure Is Broken
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- Many War Thunder players, myself included, were critical of the overpressure mechanic when Gaijin added it. Still way better than hull break ever was, but it certainly has its problems. There also seems to be some confusion on how overpressure works, so we'll be discussing that, the major bugs the mechanic has, and its merits.
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TL;DW Overpressure is broken because Spookston and OddBawZ have no decals in game! :)
Based
We need a Bobbie Hair decal too :D
I mean that’s almost word for word what Spookston said so it must be right.
Tbf spook was going to have one but they wanted to change it.
Unlucky to talk bad about the Snail.
No decal for you my friend !
the only problem i have with overpressure is that it is a 0 or 1 effect: either 0 dmg from overpressure, or either everyone and their mother is dead instantly
Fr, either nothing, or a single fragment of an arty from 10ft away instantly annihilating my entire crew.
yeah it doesn't really feel like these radia are actually there, it very much just feels like, Did fragment it internal (DEAD) or not (Nothing).
I was in a sturer Emil once and I shot at and hit the side of its barrel of an is3 or 4m and it killed the driver+barrel. Then I shot at its turret mantle even tho I can’t pierce it and it killed the tank.
@@Nick-eq8kq It only shows a single fragment, but in reality your tank got hit by multiple fragments.
@@Nick-eq8kq its pressure its supposed to simulate a shockwave of sorts scrabiling your crews organs
I got overpressured, and the killcam showed a single fragment killing my entire crew
its not a fragment its a Shockwave, there is only one bomb so there is only 1 Shockwave
Not just what dude above said but not just that the kill cam will only show the kill shot not the other hundred shots that hit at the same time
Overpressure used to be extremely bad implemented, but is now better and better and as you said works most of the time as intended. And it revived the previously useless HE rounds, so that’s good to
I over pressure a Maus with r the 75mm with my own Maus, i hit its track…
@@marco-ro6cl and i quote "most of the time"
I dislike overpreser
I still can kill M10s with 6pdr HE in the hull. Not even a top shot. It's bull.
The overpresure is ok as a mechanic, but the british Doom Barn and The centurion 5 avre is the bosses of hesh(Besh)😀
To be fair, HESH is specifically designed to cause over pressure type damage.
Japaneese SPH 155 is also funny to play. Also fire rate makes it discount arty.
@@Shaun_Jones *🅱️ESH
@@BOTmaster15 As well as Dicker Max, Sturer, ISU-152, IS-2 SU-152....
@Shaun Jones to be more accurate, HESH is designed to attack the structural integrity of what it hits, causing damage and potentially the complete collapse of the structure
also even though most of it times getting killed by that HE round makes completely sense, the kill cam just makes it look like 2 shrapnel killed your entire crew, so the kill cam requires some improvements too, it just makes people scratch their heads
They should ad it as a shock wave of sorts insted of one microscopic sharpel piece
@@Rguhbuh they do the shockwave when it's a direct hit tho (big red expanding circle)
@@cerdi_99 yeah ik mean like if you get hit with arty, you only see one singular thing destroying your entire tank
I've literally never overpressued a closed vehicle, even with France's massive 120mm shells. Only time I've managed it is when I can fire off dozen of HE shells at a single target in something like Assault Arcade, where HE is even less effective. It feels like French munitions straight up can't cause over pressure vehicles, no matter how thin the plate you hit is.
3of26, it's chinese "copy", type 75 sph works very often but you have to aime at the right place
I actually did alot. But one case was special. The pressure stacking for m247 was not exclusive for it. I've killed couple of times some xm1s, t80 /72/64s and chieftains with stock gepard
Every radar spaa has this bug. I was shooting a object 279 with the amx 30 dca and even tho I shouldnt be able to kill it i killed him somehow. I dont know about 120 mm he I've never used it cuz the pen was so low
KV2 APHE overpressures everything
Assault Arcade? that gamemode where AI can kill you in 10 km?
-15 gajin credit
The biggest issue with overpressure is it fails to calculate the armor as an actual object in the path of the pressure wave, so the damage is pretty much just negating the armor entirely if the sphere is big enough.
Yeah if that could some how be calculated in, it would probably make a system that feels more fair and I guess consistent.
since to me its very much a On/Off thing. fragment on internal = dead, fragment on external = nothing.
i remember that overpressure counts for compartments and it won't overpressure other compartments if there's armor in the way. dunno where that went, probably the other compartments
@@DominusRexDK I am guesing this is accounted for by having HE fragments have the pen equal to what the preasure wave would be able to pen?
I just love it my besh does its job now 😭👌
Today a Type 75 SPH killed me while I was in an Ostwind II. His HE shell landed about 5 meters to my left on the ground, even leaving a small crater, and completely overpressured me.
Serves you right in an Ostwind
In the 80s the us tested 155mm he, it was very complex but to sum it up, they acheived 100% kill when direct hit, and 50% kill when within 30metres. This is on 80s mbt mind you, and by kill i mean heavily damaged to where its unable to continue a combat role without out of field repairs.
...it's an artillery peice. What did you expect
and that turns out to be accurate to life. though i know a cure for your problem in game. its called: quiturbitchin
@@theneef174 I expect to have less bullshit in game, yet i get more like this
Im going to say when the overpressure wave sometimes ignores armor because it finds small gaps in the notoriously poor armor models.
Found the video very informative about how overpressure works. Personally, I thought that to kill a tank with HE, you needed to hit in a way that'd make the shrapnel penetrate even slightly, so I guess I stand corrected.
I wasn't too much of a fan, but in the end it turned out to work quite well.
(And it makes more sense than hull breaking a PT-76 because your dart scrapped its turret.)
Luckily we do have historical president for this with Ferdinand/Elefant. Someone can correct me if I'm off but the Russians at the time found one of the best way to take them out was with 152mm HE. The round itself would do little actual damage to the tank but the sheer pressure of the round going off killed all the crew inside. So the Germans at the time would have to recrew them if that happened. Not to mention when that round hit a Tiger the pressure would sometimes cause the turret to fly off.
@@trathanstargazer6421 It wasn't the pressure killing people (Pressure has nasty tendencies to follow the weakest link and your average crewman is mostly surrounded by air, which is never the weakest link when it comes to pressure waves. Driver in early tanks might get a mince meat for hands because transmission ate the chonky HE, but the rest of him might easily be fine) Armor plates would pass the shock to the structure (Made of crappy sorts of steel) and this structure would give way, turning the internals into meat grinder.
Same things for bolted/riveted armor: HE rounds ignore that plate and turn it's fasteners into canister shot.
Think Newton's craddle, but more gruesome: the ball on one side gets hit, shock easily transfered through the rest of the balls and yeets the ball on the end.
@@burningsinner1132 if a big HE round slapped the turret mantle, it would crack open the upper hull plate and whatevers in the hull, but often the pressure is only enough to kill the driver (and radio operator if it has one).
If an HE round hit a manlet, that’s basically a primitive ATGM top attack, with multiple KGs of TNT unleashing its pressure, accompanied with shrapnel
@@AyedTH-cam I'm just saying that a lot of damage is done by conducting the shockwave through the hard materials and structural failure as the wave runs out of hard material to stop the kinetic bleed, bounces back and shatters the thing through Hertzian motion.
Demolition Ranch had the video of shooting glass balls, with them staying surprisingly intact with the exception of shatter on the opposite side of impact. Highly recommend to see, sight is gorgeous and it's one of the better ways to see the Hertzian motion clearly (Yep, that's a dad level pun. There is nothing you can do about it).
@@burningsinner1132 are you talking about spalling?
I thought "overpressure" simulated some sort of magical transfer of energy waves from outside of the tank to the inside (without penetration of armor). I'm pretty sure i read this particular explanation of "overpressure" on a official Gaijin site (maybe i didn't).
One thing i know for sure is, the player base it'self doesn't understand the terms Gaijin use.
Exactly what I was thinking
I think the magical term you are looking for is called spalling.
@@christophermaciulaitis7745 not really.
You see, people explained "overpressure" to me as a phenom based completely on the transfer of energy in form of waves.
I think the problem is that everything is written in Russian first and then translated to English by a developer or someone else, who isn't a professional translator. it's quite evident, when you look at the terms they use and the way they explain things in articles and changelogs.
as an example I seem to remember the term cumulative effect being used for the effect of a shaped charge, which is a direct translation from Russian (shaped charge is kumulyativnyy zaryad). it's also a very poor translation, since cumulative effect has a completely different meaning in English.
I love your videos, really informative and to the point. Keep up the good work.
Because just like hitpoints, hullbreak and so on, it's just a mechanic. It makes sense in some cases and doesn't work in others. And it requires a careful balancing, depending on vehicles and modes in question.
My favorite thing is the open-top problem. Specifically the M36B1 in the Italian tech tree. It's literally just a Sherman hull, but because it has the turret of an M36, it's instantly killed by HE and near-miss artillery.
I know how much work you invested into editing with GHPC crew voice underneath War Thunder footage and I appreciate it!
interesting, informative, and engaging
good work once again Spookston
In defense of the kinetic hullbreak, i think it was meant for shells like the m103 solid ap when hitting major chassis components such as transmission, cannon breach and transmission
I actually agree with this. It doesn’t really matter where I hit an M16 MGMC truck with an M103 AP shell. Whether or not the entire crew is actually knocked out, the vehicle would just be crumpled and mangled beyond use.
Everyone: Overpressure, hullbreak, volumetric.. etc etc.
meanwhile
some random guy: how has your day been?
Spookston: yes
Literally every issue you listed for hull break is an exact same issue for Overpressure.
The only real difference with hull break though is it requires actually being hit by a shell and not having something explode near you.
I've really been wondering what the overall pressure mechanic is. Thanks for the info.
Love the videos chip up the good work 😀
Overpressure is a huge improvement over 'hull break' which was fucking broken for years. No more armored cars eating 90mm rounds and driving off with no damage. And it's fantastic that HE actually has a use now. The problem is hitting any open top vehicle anywhere with an HE round is almost always an instant kill; the same vehicle that can eat dozens of high calibre AP rounds will just die instantly when an HE round hits the ground 50 meters away. This makes even less sense with HEAT and HEATFS which should just be a stream of molten metal.
The biggest issue with it though is that both artillery and bombs are now hugely overpowered and a death sentence even to fully armored heavy tanks. Neither requires any skill to use and can wipe out entire teams with a click. It's World of Tanks level of broken. Even if your vehicle is on the other side of cover, you will still regularly die.
Honestly I think the issue with bombs is so simply CAS alone. I’d be a lot less frustrated with bomb overpressure if it only happened once every few matches.
Agreed getting killed through hard cover from bombs is so infuriating
Thanks to this mechanic being so broken, i used the AVRE to grind my way to 9.0 using avre in about 2 weeks. Besh is very satisfying to get kills with, even though it shouldnt in alot of cases these days.
You do understand that the avre basically hits tanks with a bomb...yes?
Overpressuring with high caliber guns makes sense and seems fair to me. What is not fair is spaa and other fast firing small guns to completely disregard armour when in reality the targeted tank would have been perfectly safe.
@@theneef174 I mean the game's own logic doesn't agree with that. The 100lb bomb has 60% more HE than the AVRE round (24.5kg vs 16kg) and yet the 100lb bomb struggles to kill anything over 3.0 but the AVRE can kill basically anything in the game. If Gaijin were consistent in their overpressure mechanics then every single bomb in the game would have a kill radius like the FAB-5000. I'm not saying that overpressure needs to go away, but it needs to be scaled wayyyyy back to bring it in line with reality, because right now according to Gaijin every country should be using HE in their MBT's because they completely ignore armor.
perhaps they need to model hesh more accurately? its not HE as in external burst charge, but more a pancake of HE applied to the flat of a vehicles armour, designed to push a blast wave through that armour, causing interior side to become shrapnel which is what does the damage.
Spaced armour and spall liners should prevent this, as would hitting at an extreme angle
TLDR HESH kills crew by turning thick armour into a weapon against them, not 'overpressure' (though there will be some)
Thank you, spookston.
The Howitzer from the Churchill Mk I actually used to be able to entirely hullbreak a Puma if it hit the hull anywhere.
My issue with overpressure is that it feels like a 50/50 between no damage and removing the tank from existance
Nice vid as always btw is that GHPC crew voice mod gonna be published out for public or is it just gonna stay personal
Spookston: Why Overpressure is Broken
Also Spookston: Overpressure works surprisingly well
Clickbait. He knows the mindset of the average playerbase.
Hay Spookston,
what sound mod are you using?
I really like the crew sounds.
Thank you, learned something today
The intro explosion already is something you'd expect to see in a Fast & Furious movie
i love the GH:PC voicelines in the background, did you edit those in post or actually put them in the game?
hi spook love ur vids
Bit late to this vid, but could you do an anecdotal (little more statistics and stuff) video demonstrating how these shells actually perform w/ over pressure?
Are internal and external OP really a diffrent thing ? I feel like the dealt damage depends on tnt filler divided by crewman ( each separately) distance to explosion and there is no diffrence whether the explosion inside or outside.
Ofc the pen required for damage being dealt is still an issue.
Ah that makes sense, I was always wondering how I use to randomly overpressure t72’s with my Gepard’s default belt when shooting them while they’re looking at me… was just trying to destroy the barrel lol
lmao is that the gunner heat pc sound effects im hearing when you get kills?
Today I was killed by Bradley ATGM, his missile landed more than 10m
The worst overpressure moment I've had was when i was playing the 75mm jumbo and a panzer 4 h shot at my turret coaxial mg and i instantly died, i still think about that moment everyday..
I got question how did youbinstalled those Gunner heat pc voicelines?
What's the mechanic when my large APHE round (e.g. IS-2) penetrates and instantly kills crew without spall or explosive?
I got overpressured by a gepard in an object 279, and in the kill cam, the shot didnt even destroy a module like an optic or machine gun
You also forgot how any APHE shell with more then 170G TNT filler can now instakill anything as long as it penetrates somewhere. Even if it just scrapes the cupola, as long as the shell penetrated for a split second it kills the enemy.
Ever wondered why you see so many T-10As driving around even though every big TH-camrs said that tank is trash? Because they played it before pressure wave was introduced. Now the T-10A is a stabilized one shot monster and extremely fun to play. Its currently my most favorit premium.
Thanks for teaching me because I am new to the game and when I hit somebody with a stuh 42 g round and everybody just dies and no shrapnel really hits anything I was very confused
I remember taking a HEATFS in my Abrams that over-pressured me. My Abrams was 90 degrees flat to him as I was moving, he shot and it hit the tail light and killed my entire crew
Idk how you manage to kill that bmp1 on the last clip , everytime i shot there with my avre , the hesh round just explode and if i'm Lucky the track will be light yellow
Is that a crewmod with sounds from GHPC? Where can i get this mod? =(
Can they fix ATGM’s and HEAT shells killing via pressure damage when the jet and shrapnel doesn’t hit any crew?
i killed a centurion action X with a gepard with a small burst from around 500m to the frontal armor, the round that killed him was an HE round that hit his turret armor( didn't hit the top or breach so yeah)
reminds me of the time I over pressured a t-72 with the AA shells in the veak 40. (the 5mm penetration rounds)
Yeah that is complete BS and a bug.....It would take weeks of constant fire to wear down a T72's armour with 40mm HE
I tried to go to your twitch but the link will not work. I also tried to find you and couldnt.
you did not mention, when there is an MG on an open top tank's turret (like the 50 cal on the hellcat), and that mg gets hit by a high calibre APHE, even if the APHE does not fuse, but just goes through it, it triggers the overpressure (you need a 122 or higher calibre APHE). i dont know if it is still present, but i did it at least 3x
I remember being hull broken in my BMP-1 by just a little metal flap on the front being destroyed. Those were the days lol
Sees spooston, aims gun, it misses, crys, better luck next time
Where can I download that GHPC crew voices mod?
when overpressure came out i somehow caught an is2 on fire with the german 20mm air target belt from a bf109 so 10/10
how do you explain me in my jpanther dying from an IS2s aphe round to the transmission plate causing over pressure killing all my crew and modules
I have a question
Does the Sherman with 150mm do over pressure with he or heat?
For your next details video, the us modern carrier has modular destruction and can burn down
My friend was in one match with you just before this video uploaded,you were on an IS-7,had 1 kill,and leave after got killed by a derp gun i suppose....pretty funny to take this video as your rant about that IS-7 death lmao
I was just curious if you could make a video on the tiger 2 and how how play it considering I'm going against much more advanced tanks and is 6's that I get stuck in a head on confrontation with it feels almost impossible if anyone could help that would be great it makes me want to stop playing my most advanced tech tree and I feel like I shouldn't quit on it
I got a idea of how to balance it to some degree. Only give 120 and higher overpressure as a balancer so that a m22 and use HE and kill a maus
Please also talk about the overmatch mechanic (if any).
I had a HEATFS from a AMX-40 scrape the roof of my abrams, detonating at the very top of my gun mantlet, then the shell damaging the optics of the commander. It proceeded to say “crew knocked out” because why not.
It’s a real fun mechanic
I nearly over pressured a Cent Mk 5 in a kugel one game lol. Only killed his loader and had to stop to engage air targets.
Two years later and Sgt. York is still overpressuring a lot of mbts he sees)))
My T32's front was overpressured by a maus 75mm heat round twice when this mechanic came out...
The problem with overpressure right now is that heavy tanks like the Obj 279 consistently die to overpressure, while light tanks like the Tam2IP never die to overpressure. As if heavies needed any more nerfing.
Yesterday i overpressured an M19 with the german 20mm
i have been overpressure by a tiger's aphe in a jumbo when he hits the manlet
Can you make video about the Coop Mode Ground Assault ?
That game mode is very broken and just straight up unfair even worse than a normal PVP match...
entonces el overpressure es como si le disparas muchas veces se debilita entonces lo puedes eliminar mas rapido?
I'm pretty sure I fell victim to overpressure stacking in my M36, when an Ostwind II shot my mantlet a few times and suddenly my crew switched off
it works with the japanese 30mm cannons, pulled off overpressureing a Centurion Mk III the other day with a R2Y2 V1
Is it normal when i got shot by an is2 in the cheeks but it didn’t pen my turret but i still died cause of the he filler?
How does it work now? Has it been changed and how?
I would like to know why over pressure initially worked with large caliber AP and APHE rounds but doesn't seem to anymore? That seems like something that would be a legitimate threat even if not penetrated. I remember the ISU and SU 152 being able to kill tanks even without penetration or destroy the tank as long as you penetrated.
Have you seen t34 kill maus with overpresure?
I kinda like it cuz sometimes I can 1 shot the t26e5 with kv2 or 15cm sig
I had not gotten a single overpressure kill or been killed in that way (been playing the kv2), so it only works on HESH or I'm crazy
idk if it is a bug but i got 50% of the time counted as killed when the crew is only red or orange
be me playin jumbo in 5.3 minding my business and bouncing tiger h1 shells.
tiger h1 be like: YES I HIT YOUR TRANSMISSION!
my jumbo be like: guess i'm gonna OVERPRESSURE, *all crew instantly dies*
working as intended -gaijin
The main reason I don't like overpressure is that you just seem to die without reason, you kinda just get a track hit right on the edge right next to the armour around the gearbox in your panzer III then your tank explodes
Overpreasure needlessly shifted the balance in favour of planes even more its horrendous for balancing, and has generally been more harmful to the game than just not having it would be
Just like how I somehow failed to penetrate a jumbo with the Sturer, and said jumbo proceeded to hit the 40mm plate with HE and kill me instantly.
overpressure is a legitimate issue in which hull armor is compromised by the HE shell, and sending a pressure wave through interior of the tank. so it could be simulating that in the M10 example you were talking about.
Gotta love it when Kugelblitz overpressure T 44 with HE only by shooting the gun mantlet.
Ive gotten more than a few dodgy kills with HESH in the strv103 because of overpressure, half of the time i dont know if i was supposed to get the kill or not and the other half i know full well i should not have gotten the kill but the game decided to somehow have a hesh shell with 127 mm of pen go trough the side of a maus turret at an angle of 87 degrees and somehow kill the guys in the hull
its not working for me somehow i literally break nothing on m4 sherman with stpz 2 hit to side turret
AVRE with laser range finder, I can't imagine how much fun imma have
i remember last week i got overpressured in the Achilles by being shot in the track by an ostwind 2 using he
game after that i got overpressured in my Challenger 2F by being hit in the turret cheek lol
I was playing my M36B1 and a T-34/85 shot at me and missed, but some shrapnel hit my track and instantly killed all my crew
I still remember that i was killed by a STRF9040 BILL but he killed me using HE and Tank is a T80U
I remember one time a few months ago I managed to kill 2 king tigers with the Japanese So-ki by just shooting HE at it.
I hate that I still get overpressured when I'm 2 tank lengths away from a small bomb and there's a building in the way.
Everything you said about hullbreak that is broken, also applies to overpressure, but on even a larger scale thanks to it applying to everytank instead of just no-to-low-armor vehicles.
In the case of lighter vehicles (like the M10), could it be spalling on the inside of the armor?
I think the issue is that even very weak HE shells that wouldn't cause spall still wrecks you if you're open topped.
Killed multiple dicker max and other german open top TDs with 6pounder HE just shooting the sides or front. Doesnt really make sense but yeah