I used the first clipless pedal system from Look in the mid 80s and never looked back. These days all my bikes have Shimano MTB clipless pedals. I like the ability to walk in my MTB shoes. Integrated braking and shifting systems are another great innovation.
@Wilderness Music I used to ride Reynolds 531 frames before switching to Logic double butted, difference in ride quality purely on the tubing was extremely noticeable. A caveat was that the 531 frames were lugged andmade by Rossin in Italy and the Logic rubes were filet brazed and made by Tom Ritchey.. I lived both but the Ritchey was a real racehorse, the Rossins were beasts, very utilitarian workhorses.
Many years ago I was racing on steel bike with clips on pedals. We did not have cycling clothes, it was regular tricot or half-wool trouser. Only good thing about it- you did not spent half an hour to get ready for your ride: no computer to take with you, no pwoermeter calibration etc. Just put your shoes and good to go. Even we do not ride all the time faster than 30kph, still prefer aero-bike.
Totally agree with every point you made. Modern bikes are so superior in every aspect to the old ones. I would only question two things the price and the quality! Cycling industry is worth more then ever before and it seems the more they get the less they care about the quality - mostly applies to frame manufacturing which is highly questionable. Expensive frames like Cervelo, Specialized and many more, most of them, are released to the market with bad designs and poor manufacturing and they aren't even made in houses but in the same Chinese factory. I don't mind buying expensive bike as long as it's good quality. I think nowadays that's the biggest problem.
David, I enjoy watching your videos and this topic was definitely of interest to me. I own a mix of road bikes including a 1980's Colnago steel Super Bike with 6 speed freewheel and down tube friction shifters, plus 2 modern carbon road bikes; one with hydraulic disk brakes and the other with carbon wheels and rim brakes (if anyone still remembers them?). I ride all 3 bikes regularly, so for me, the biggest improvements are definitely #1 Indexed shifting, #2 having more gears (for both a wider range and closer ratios between gears), #3 clipless pedals - brilliant - all my bikes have them, #4 braking - whether it be dual pivot rim brakes (which offer fantastic braking in dry conditions, even with carbon wheels when compared to 1980's single pivot rim brakes) or disc brakes (for unquestionably superior braking in the wet). #5 ergonomics (which wasn't mentioned in your list) in respect to the shape and design of the brake/shift levers, handle bars & saddles which have all vastly improved beyond what was standard in the 1980's. In terms of advances in aerodynamics, weight reduction and tyre widths, those things don't really stand out when I switch between these bikes. 23mm tyres at 100psi on a steel bike feels quite similar to 25mm tyres at 85psi on a carbon bike. I don't skimp on tyres, always fit the best rubber if you want maximum grip. A 9kg steel bike vs 7.5kg carbon bike, suprisingly I don't particularly notice that extra 1.5kg riding on regular roads (ie. not the Alpes). The 1.5kg increase represents less than 2% increase on my combined overall weight; bike (9kg) & rider (80kg). Aerodynamics again difficult to notice, particularly if you are already riding in an aero position with well fitted clothing. Yes, that old steel bike with a 52t chain ring and 12t cog is surprisingly quick on flat roads! Of course if you are racing, aerodynamics and weight can make a big difference.
I had a Trek 5200 (19mm tyres) since 92 and a Cannondale F700 since 98. This year I pushed the boat out and got a Giant Propel in March and a Giant Revolt just two weeks ago. I’ll be honest with you I’m in riding heaven.! Adding disc brakes and tubeless tyres makes me feel like a freaking time traveler 😎
25mm tires is as wide as you need for a road bike if all you care bout is speed. Anything wider than that is only beneficial to smooth out the bumps if you are unfortunate enough to have to ride on crapy roads.
One big revolutionary step for me was moving from my old leather Detto Pietro shoes to modern synthetic materials. First ride in the rain with the synthetic materials was so much more comfortable, that I never even considered going back, even for my classic bikes (I've still got my Motobecane that I bought in 1971).
I think disc and tubeless are better, but…… can require you to be a better “home mechanic”. I can bleed brakes and set up/install tubeless tires. They’re more of a hassle and takes longer to service. Bike shops charge more to install tubeless tires and service hydro brakes. What ever your mechanical skills and budget allows is the best bike. 🤷🏻♂️
That's why you need to be able to service your own bike. Not only the bike shop charge you but also waiting line there so your bike could be finished to service not on the same day. Even i could bring my car to pro mechanic and be done in same day, SMH. It just need regular maintenance.
@@arifazhari7598 I think it’s so crazy that so many bike riders depend so much on bike shops. Bike maintenance difficulty is equal to high school math problems, lol. It’s a “bit” more maintenance but my god it’s so easy, I think it’s cause I’m comparing it to motorcycles.
@@MrMikeDao the only difficult procedure is when involving high force high precision tolerance. For example pressing bearing headset and BB as well as cutting steerer. That is why my bike preference is Threaded BB and frame with drop and forget BB installation. With no fancy tool required. Not only bike shop charge insane.amount of money compared to your bike if the value below 1000 usd.
Yes, lighter gears opened up the sport. And disk brakes: yes, yes! After 40ys. riding I still have a couple of really nice RB bikes, but they now reserved for man cave or cafe ride. (Always Campagnolo to the cafe of course)
Did this to my commuter since those things cannot really get smashed in the bike racks and they do not look fancy. However they just work. Indexed and all, no guesswork needed at all.
I have a feeling that we all believe the marketing. I bet that the danger of taking a hand off the steering is balanced be the added benefit of being able to control yourself with only one hand on the steering. Less to go wrong, and finding the right gear might take you a few days of getting the feel for the system, but we will benefit from the muscle memory aspects, after all we are elaborate organisms that are capable of the most nuanced delicacy, changing gear on a down tube shifter is hardly asking much.
For long distance riding I will always chose a lugged, Columbus tubed steel bike w/650b wheels and generous tire size. Like riding in a Rolls Royce Silver Cloud. 1973 Atala Competizione with 650b handbuilt wheels, 47mm semi-slicks in a 63cm size.
You can fit modern groupsets onto old bikes. They make spectacularly good rides. I run my 1983 Carlton Pro with both a modern groupset AND 28m tyres. Can also put , shock horror, carbon wheels on old bikes - again, I raced my Pro in the last 2 years on a hilly TT with 50mm carbon wheels, and it has clipless pedals. So really, an older bike might be lighter (which might be an issue if I was lighter), and it would be less aero. So really, the only differentiator is aero? I'd actually be interested to see a comparison between 25mm round section tubes and 2-3" wide "aero" tubed frame. Suspect that while the aero performance of the section is lower, the narrower cross section cuts the advantage...
I'd like to see one too, but an honest independent one. When Cycling Weekly and GCN roll out vintage steel it's usually to put the modern stuff they're sponsored to promote over, and it's obviously biased from the start. I'd love to actually see riders head to head on a modern and classic bike, putting someone on an old steel frame in a modern field during a race and see how it performs against modern bikes and components out in the real world.
I am thankful for your fine videos! Hey, what is that bike stand that you use to display out on the road? It is actually pretty cool looking. I could use one or two in my living room.
I have a 1998 Cannondale R200 CAAD 2 with Shimano 600 8 speed SIS downtube shifters and Shimano 600 pedals with toe clips and straps. Mavic CXP 30 rims with Michelin Pro 4 700x23 tires on Shimano 600 hubs. Still in beautiful condition and rides very well. Not bad for a 23 year old bike. Fast Forward; Last year I treated myself as a retirement present to me. Worked for the Postal Service for 32 years. I bought a 2020 Cannondale CAAD 13 Ultegra rim brakes. Kept the Fulcrum wheels and put Mavic Aksium wheels with Michelin Dynamic Sport 700x25. Switched out the Cannondale crankset for a Shimano Ultegra 8000 series crankset. I had to call my son because I didn't know how to use STI shifters. He couldn't stop laughing at me. I have to admit the current road bikes are faster, lighter and more aerodynamic. I like the best of both worlds.
Yes but are 2021 bikes better than circa 2018 bikes ,today bikes are heavier and a lot lot lot more expensive.You could get a bike in 2018 sub 8 kilos for 3k ish .Progress not sure really ...........
Look at the average speeds of the Tour de France. The fastest TDF to date is still from 2005 (Lance Armstrong). Look back to the 80's and the speeds are slower by professional standards but not by much and they were also riding steel bikes.
I wonder how many of the super light carbon frames will be safe to ride in thirty years time? Steel frames can last for many decades. I suppose that’s not an issue in our throwaway society.
It's an interesting question. It's clear very early 80/90s carbon frames haven't fared well, but my 10 year old Cannondale is showing no signs of giving up just yet. I think the issue with some carbon frames is where metal sleeves are bonded into bottom bracket and headset areas, and the bonding agent gives up after time
@@davidarthur I have a Planet X super light carbon bike from 2007, so I have ‘skin in the game’ so to speak. I think the carbon fibre itself will probably be ok, it is the resin used to hold it all together which may prove to be the problem, especially resins from decades ago, which are known to deteriorate over time, especially if exposed to sunlight and oil, salt etc. Time will tell I suppose.
The steel bikes which last three decades are the ones which haven't been ridden hard and much. Otherwise, metals fatigue and eventually break. If you race on it, it's likely to die in a crash somewhere down the line. I wouldn't put my hand in the fire that a metal road bike frame would be more likely to survive 100.000km om it than a CF one.
I can believe it. But no new cyclist would pay for your steel crap over a modern road bike, even if it’s lighter. And guess who will continue to retain support for their hobby in the years to come?
Dave if you do not like riding the Cannondale can I have it please, its too nice a bike just to leave alone 😘 I do agree with the lights though its a life saver especially at night and much better than the old AA battery operated ones.
Personally I love down tube shifters, an all rounded cyclist should be able to use both origin and modern technology equally. The same holds true for toe clips with straps and cleats -V- clipless.
If you could still get cleated shoes, I would still be using clips and straps. I just find the connection between my foot and the pedal to be much stronger with a good slotted cleat and clips…and I never found the “dreaded” phenomenon of being “tied” to the bike to be an issue…those of us if a certain age just learned to reach down and quickly release the strap when we needed to put a foot down!
@@johns3106 when I'm riding my fixed wheel bike, I always use toe clips and straps. If I used clipless pedals, and my foot suddenly became detached from the clip, there could be a serious accident at high RPM. Like you, I never found being tied to the bike to be an issue.
my first race bike was a 1987 Fuji with toe clips and 7 speed SiS shifters. I went over a guardrail in the rain and the bike came with me because those old cages and slotted cleats wouldn’t release. I now have a 2021 Specialized Aethos with SRAM AXS wireless shifting and disc brakes and believe me when I say I will never own another bike with rim brakes or cable shifters. My many racing injuries and arthritic hands thank me for the ease of use of modern kit.
LOL, come on, disc brakes are noisy, usually if someone's brakes are squealing, 90% of the time, it's disc brakes. Plus pads last a fraction of rim brake and cost 5x. This is in the dry where I ride though, maybe UK is different.
I've been riding road bikes since 1964 and I agree with everything that was said in the video except for tubeless tires. Tubeless tires have shown mixed results in professional racing, mainly because they've proven to be impractical for the mechanics that work on them. Also, I feel clipless pedals are great for competitive riders but not for recreational riders. What's good for racing is not always good for riding for fun.
It's true that tubeless tyres haven't been fully embraced by the pro peloton but here in the real world adoption is much higher and the benefits of tubeless are far greater for the everyday cyclist that wants to avoid the hassle of punctures without the safety net of a support car
@@davidarthur Maybe 20% of my club members run tubeless. Many tried but went back to tubes. Hassle of punctures? Maybe 10 minutes per years, that is less than the hassle to get a Conti 5000 Tubeless on your wheel. Personally no flats since 2017.
@@nlfiets what hassle are you talking about? How long does it take to send the bike down to the mechanic to fix a really bad leak, while you have a cup of coffee and relax till the bike is ready for collection? At most, twice a year. Compare that to tubes. Every time I get a puncture it means a trip to the mechanic to swap the tube. That wastes even more time. With tubes I had to send me bike to have the tubes swapped, around 7-8 turns a year. Tubeless has reduced that to 2-3 times max.
@@87togabito A mechanic doesn't change tubes, he or she expects that you can do that yourself. In my country you learn that as a chid. If you don't own a car, it is a BIG hassle to get your bike to a mechanic.
Using unreycleable carbon fibre to start with is a massive no, because it can't be recycled and has a short self life and difficult if not impossible to repair electric shifting is off the scale dumb..... some of your mentions are valid but on the whole and with a world wide global view without much real substance. The obsession with weight, technology and the latest thing in all spectrums of life are killing this planet.
Lol. Now I’m just even more convinced that I should dump my mechanical XT shifter and go sram AXS for my mtb. My road bike is already AXS, and mtb is the next on list
And are you going to outlive the planet? My god, the arrogance of thinking that the planet needs you to care for it. Get off your high horse. You aren’t as great as you think you are.
Even the £20 knockoffs from companies like "Nestling" beat anything from more than 10 years ago, picked up some for the gravel bike on a whim and honestly, any brighter and think it would take too much of the fun out of night riding.
Disc brakes are good if you want that performance but Rim brake rims are easier to get and rim brakes are easier to maintenance so i guess ill still stick with rim brakes for now
Hey David. What about clothing or as youse guys call it, kit. Also everything you talked about, disc brakes tubeless tyres as well as electronic shifting. Ya know think about the after-market parts compare today and what we had 30yrs ago.
@@stibra101 Shhh, keep it down big cycling will have your knee caps. And especially don't talk out loud about how most of the "aero" claims of these new heavy frames often don't apply in the real world and at the speeds the vast majority of amateurs can realistically maintain on active roads.
We are cycling to make an effort, climbing the mountain and to make a stronger effort... and gain 100g to make marginally less effort? Steel bike, clip pedals and down tube shifters are great and lovely. Sure, heavier, but you are just making a bit more effort, and you are anyway out to make effort.
What about tire material? And were sealed bearings a thing back then? What about chain lube? I wonder if these would be more important than aero frames n wheels. Thx.
@@davidarthur I know but it was still new technology back in the days. I think that new bikes bacame too light and too areo so shapes of tubes are not strong enough - tubes are simply too thin. Small accident can cause damage of the frame.
Exactly. Riders managed to use them for decades. It's a natural skill aquired from riding in a classic position of using your hooks and drops as the primary hand positions, which make using them not hard at all.
@@davidgfisher Exactly. It's like knowing how to drive manual is like knowing wizardry to drivers of modern cars. If that's what was on the first thing you learned to drive, it's a natural skill you pick up quickly.
I have one of those old bikes with its 23mm tires, toe clips, and non-indexed Shimano shifters. I have to admit that it looks fantastic, but alas I prefer riding my all-carbon disc brake and Di2-equipped modern road bike. My only regret about modern bikes is that derailleurs are now merely functional items made as light and flimsy as possible. Old Shimano and Campagnolo versions were sturdy works of art with solid aluminum bodies.
No question that modern bikes are better and although I am still a fan of old steel frames, I don't ever want to reach down to shift again, so lame compared to shifters up top. And I think it is all an enjoyable pursuit, buying new or cobbling together or doing whatever works with the money in hand. And the brake deal is more a racing deal, I think--discs for the racers are crazy when they're busting into big skids in the corners and getting ill-fitting bikes instead of a new wheel and, most significantly, suffering injuries from crashes caused by discs not actuating like rims.
While I agree with most points, modern bikes simply aren't sustainable. There's a real environmental problem with carbon fibre in landfill, with many carbon frames now coming to the end of their natural life. And the multiplicity of standards make the environmental situation even worse. The carbon footprint of a modern carbon fibre bike, often with proprietary parts, must surely be enormous, at a time when we really should be making products that are long lasting and easily repairable, with spare parts being made available for many years, and made of materials that can be recycled at the end of their life; all serious issues that are largely being ignored by the bike industry. Are modern road bikes better than old bikes? Certainly from an environmental aspect, the answer has to be no! Anyone buying a bike now should be asking about the carbon footprint of the bike they are interested in, and also querying both future parts availability and ease of recycling.
I will add that the economic model which produces carbon bikes is highly negative and extractive. Supporting cycling production locally, instead of some giant financialized holding enterprise is the right thing to do.
A very important issue indeed! Maybe if most customers stepped away from carbon in favour of metal, bicycle manufacturers might invest more in them. Same goes for hydraulics and electronics, by the way.
But, does it look like a sane person would pay good money to ride crap just for some cheap sense of self righteousness? Pls. Get off your high horse. Not everyone is rich like you to be able to afford Money for personal validation. We have to stretch our dollars, and buy the ride that offers the best bang for the Buck, and probably resale value too for upgrades down the road.
@@brunocyclist Comparatively, yes. The whole sustainability thing is a red herring. CF road bikes, top shelf, electronic and hydraulic, pollute as much as burning 110l of petrol. That's two tanks of gas. Per dollar spent the difference is nothing short of astronomical.
@@stibra101alright you get on a heavy bike from 20 years ago with no gears and no brakes and I’ll use my hydraulic discs and 10 speed modern groupset and we’ll have a race
It doesn't have to be either or. I'd rather have a custom-built steel frame with a carbon fork, wheels, and modern components than an off the shelf aero carbon bike from a major manufacturer. The difference in frame weight is maybe a pound at most, and aero wheels and kit make a bigger difference than an aero frame.
“Better” because they require less effort to ride? If the goal is to get exercise, wouldn’t a bike that requires more effort present a more challenging ride? Also if you just want to ride faster for a given level of effort, it’s not gonna make you faster than others because chances are they are not riding old vintage bikes. So maybe “better” is really for the bike market … they get to sell more bikes cuz everyone wants the “latest and greatest”.
Went for a ride in the rain today on my old flatbar hybrid with rim brakes. Stopping was ridiculously difficult and unsafe. Who wants that? Other things I like include: - Thru axles - Electronic shifting - Easily serviced bike chains - Road laws to give cyclists space
I would have a look at your brakes, I have a rim brake commuter and ride it any weather rain/snow and the brakes work very well. Maybe look at a different pair of pads, seriously. Compared to riding in the dry the stopping difference is only a couple of meters difference... if that and if you try and stop any quicker you are risking sliding out in poor weather.
Damien O@ You better have a look at those brakes. With rim brakes you must regularly clean the braking surface of the rims, just use some wet toilet paper and wipe them down before a ride. Also adjust the barrel adjusters on front and rear, turn them anti-clockwise to tighten the response time of the pads. And i recommend taking the wheels off and cleaning the brake pads regularly with soapy water and a sponge. Use a knifes edge or something narrow to get the crud out between the pads. (Some even recommend filing down the pads a bit so that they bite better after some use). Good luck.
Fair point. I think electronic gears are great but I could happily live with mechanical - I reckon the move to indexed and integrated shifters was a bigger development
It does not matter if a road bike is new or old. Both are not as cool as a mountain bike and never will be. Half the new tech on modern road bikes is stolen from mountain bikes anyhow.
Let's not forget the increase of weight of 400 grams with Disc, compromised aerodynamics,you don't see disc on TT bikes,same with tyres....no tyres over 25 mm on bikes built for speed (Tyre pressures may be reduced from years ago).
This is the modern world...we have 1.0 cars producing 140 bhp years ago it was 50 hp just like bikes we have electric groupsets rather than unreliable clunky downtube shifters etc etc
@@davemellor4697 What eaxactly was unreliable and clunky about downtube shifters? Granted STI was a giant advance, especially shifting under load, but a properly set up downtube shifter was no less reliable than driving stick shift with manual drive. Just a different skillset that came with riding, and understanding your shifts, which indexing and STI levers simplified the same way automatic did in cars.
This channel is Rubbish. Disc brakes ruined the look, the weight, and the aerodynamic of the bicycles. And you said tubeless is better than clincher?? I am going to unsubscribe. You Channel is misleading. Absolute rubbish.
lol. Probably a 40-50 year old cyclist that rides an old rim brake bike, who Once tried/is trying to go pro but failed/is failing miserably. And now spends his days being bitter that he lacks a real job that would allow him to get one.
@@davidarthur David I apologise if I appeared to be too blunt. To me, a good TH-camr has to know the science behind the topics he is on. Not marketing gimmicks.
@@sbsb4995 well, you talk about looks which are totally subjective and yes disc brakes are currently heavier, that's no great mystery, but you're confused about aero unless you have 'science' to back up your claim. And yes tubeless IMHO is better than clincher. I know not everybody agrees and that's fine
I used the first clipless pedal system from Look in the mid 80s and never looked back. These days all my bikes have Shimano MTB clipless pedals. I like the ability to walk in my MTB shoes. Integrated braking and shifting systems are another great innovation.
I use eggbeaters for the same reason
Another vote for MTB clipless here the benefits far out weigh any disadvantages for 99% of riders IMO.
Still can't beat the feel of a hand built double butted steel frame, the ride os superb
Yup, if the goal is to feel like crap at the end of the ride as the bike beats you with every grain of sand on the road.
@Wilderness Music I used to ride Reynolds 531 frames before switching to Logic double butted, difference in ride quality purely on the tubing was extremely noticeable. A caveat was that the 531 frames were lugged andmade by Rossin in Italy and the Logic rubes were filet brazed and made by Tom Ritchey.. I lived both but the Ritchey was a real racehorse, the Rossins were beasts, very utilitarian workhorses.
Many years ago I was racing on steel bike with clips on pedals. We did not have cycling clothes, it was regular tricot or half-wool trouser. Only good thing about it- you did not spent half an hour to get ready for your ride: no computer to take with you, no pwoermeter calibration etc. Just put your shoes and good to go. Even we do not ride all the time faster than 30kph, still prefer aero-bike.
Totally agree with every point you made. Modern bikes are so superior in every aspect to the old ones.
I would only question two things the price and the quality! Cycling industry is worth more then ever before and it seems the more they get the less they care about the quality - mostly applies to frame manufacturing which is highly questionable. Expensive frames like Cervelo, Specialized and many more, most of them, are released to the market with bad designs and poor manufacturing and they aren't even made in houses but in the same Chinese factory. I don't mind buying expensive bike as long as it's good quality. I think nowadays that's the biggest problem.
David, I enjoy watching your videos and this topic was definitely of interest to me. I own a mix of road bikes including a 1980's Colnago steel Super Bike with 6 speed freewheel and down tube friction shifters, plus 2 modern carbon road bikes; one with hydraulic disk brakes and the other with carbon wheels and rim brakes (if anyone still remembers them?). I ride all 3 bikes regularly, so for me, the biggest improvements are definitely #1 Indexed shifting, #2 having more gears (for both a wider range and closer ratios between gears), #3 clipless pedals - brilliant - all my bikes have them, #4 braking - whether it be dual pivot rim brakes (which offer fantastic braking in dry conditions, even with carbon wheels when compared to 1980's single pivot rim brakes) or disc brakes (for unquestionably superior braking in the wet). #5 ergonomics (which wasn't mentioned in your list) in respect to the shape and design of the brake/shift levers, handle bars & saddles which have all vastly improved beyond what was standard in the 1980's. In terms of advances in aerodynamics, weight reduction and tyre widths, those things don't really stand out when I switch between these bikes. 23mm tyres at 100psi on a steel bike feels quite similar to 25mm tyres at 85psi on a carbon bike. I don't skimp on tyres, always fit the best rubber if you want maximum grip. A 9kg steel bike vs 7.5kg carbon bike, suprisingly I don't particularly notice that extra 1.5kg riding on regular roads (ie. not the Alpes). The 1.5kg increase represents less than 2% increase on my combined overall weight; bike (9kg) & rider (80kg). Aerodynamics again difficult to notice, particularly if you are already riding in an aero position with well fitted clothing. Yes, that old steel bike with a 52t chain ring and 12t cog is surprisingly quick on flat roads! Of course if you are racing, aerodynamics and weight can make a big difference.
I had a Trek 5200 (19mm tyres) since 92 and a Cannondale F700 since 98. This year I pushed the boat out and got a Giant Propel in March and a Giant Revolt just two weeks ago. I’ll be honest with you I’m in riding heaven.! Adding disc brakes and tubeless tyres makes me feel like a freaking time traveler 😎
All wonderful, if you can afford it.
25mm tires is as wide as you need for a road bike if all you care bout is speed. Anything wider than that is only beneficial to smooth out the bumps if you are unfortunate enough to have to ride on crapy roads.
Wider tires are also safer in the wet, in cross winds and on fast, steep descents .
One big revolutionary step for me was moving from my old leather Detto Pietro shoes to modern synthetic materials. First ride in the rain with the synthetic materials was so much more comfortable, that I never even considered going back, even for my classic bikes (I've still got my Motobecane that I bought in 1971).
I think disc and tubeless are better, but…… can require you to be a better “home mechanic”. I can bleed brakes and set up/install tubeless tires. They’re more of a hassle and takes longer to service. Bike shops charge more to install tubeless tires and service hydro brakes. What ever your mechanical skills and budget allows is the best bike. 🤷🏻♂️
That's why you need to be able to service your own bike.
Not only the bike shop charge you but also waiting line there so your bike could be finished to service not on the same day.
Even i could bring my car to pro mechanic and be done in same day, SMH. It just need regular maintenance.
@@arifazhari7598 I think it’s so crazy that so many bike riders depend so much on bike shops. Bike maintenance difficulty is equal to high school math problems, lol. It’s a “bit” more maintenance but my god it’s so easy, I think it’s cause I’m comparing it to motorcycles.
@@MrMikeDao the only difficult procedure is when involving high force high precision tolerance.
For example pressing bearing headset and BB as well as cutting steerer.
That is why my bike preference is Threaded BB and frame with drop and forget BB installation. With no fancy tool required.
Not only bike shop charge insane.amount of money compared to your bike if the value below 1000 usd.
Yes, lighter gears opened up the sport. And disk brakes: yes, yes! After 40ys. riding I still have a couple of really nice RB bikes, but they
now reserved for man cave or cafe ride. (Always Campagnolo to the cafe of course)
Just put my gear shifter back on the down tube. Revelation, I am thinking of doing it to all my bikes.
Did this to my commuter since those things cannot really get smashed in the bike racks and they do not look fancy. However they just work. Indexed and all, no guesswork needed at all.
I have a feeling that we all believe the marketing. I bet that the danger of taking a hand off the steering is balanced be the added benefit of being able to control yourself with only one hand on the steering. Less to go wrong, and finding the right gear might take you a few days of getting the feel for the system, but we will benefit from the muscle memory aspects, after all we are elaborate organisms that are capable of the most nuanced delicacy, changing gear on a down tube shifter is hardly asking much.
For long distance riding I will always chose a lugged, Columbus tubed steel bike w/650b wheels and generous tire size. Like riding in a Rolls Royce Silver Cloud. 1973 Atala Competizione with 650b handbuilt wheels, 47mm semi-slicks in a 63cm size.
I had a Columbus steel bike and was great, but nothing compares with a Pinarello Dogma ....
You can fit modern groupsets onto old bikes. They make spectacularly good rides. I run my 1983 Carlton Pro with both a modern groupset AND 28m tyres. Can also put , shock horror, carbon wheels on old bikes - again, I raced my Pro in the last 2 years on a hilly TT with 50mm carbon wheels, and it has clipless pedals. So really, an older bike might be lighter (which might be an issue if I was lighter), and it would be less aero. So really, the only differentiator is aero? I'd actually be interested to see a comparison between 25mm round section tubes and 2-3" wide "aero" tubed frame. Suspect that while the aero performance of the section is lower, the narrower cross section cuts the advantage...
At what point does it stop being an "old bike" with modern components and starts to be a "modern bike" with an old frame?
I'd like to see one too, but an honest independent one. When Cycling Weekly and GCN roll out vintage steel it's usually to put the modern stuff they're sponsored to promote over, and it's obviously biased from the start. I'd love to actually see riders head to head on a modern and classic bike, putting someone on an old steel frame in a modern field during a race and see how it performs against modern bikes and components out in the real world.
I can live with everything of vintage bikes but the handlebars.Those sloped rails is a real pain.
@@goodlife7012 I mean "flat top shallow drop" handlebars which is standard
to modern bikes
Modern carbon road bike: i am light and faster
Vintage steel road bike: yup. see you in 30 year.
I am thankful for your fine videos! Hey, what is that bike stand that you use to display out on the road? It is actually pretty cool looking. I could use one or two in my living room.
here you go Jeff store.retailshopkits.com/off-the-shelf/bicycle-stands/grand-stand-type-2.html
@@davidarthur Thanks, David. I just ordered one.
I have a 1998 Cannondale R200 CAAD 2 with Shimano 600 8 speed SIS downtube shifters and Shimano 600 pedals with toe clips and straps. Mavic CXP 30 rims with Michelin Pro 4 700x23 tires on Shimano 600 hubs. Still in beautiful condition and rides very well. Not bad for a 23 year old bike.
Fast Forward;
Last year I treated myself as a retirement present to me. Worked for the Postal Service for 32 years. I bought a 2020 Cannondale CAAD 13 Ultegra rim brakes. Kept the Fulcrum wheels and put Mavic Aksium wheels with Michelin Dynamic Sport 700x25. Switched out the Cannondale crankset for a Shimano Ultegra 8000 series crankset. I had to call my son because I didn't know how to use STI shifters. He couldn't stop laughing at me. I have to admit the current road bikes are faster, lighter and more aerodynamic. I like the best of both worlds.
I bet your old supersix was a beast up hills , older supersix absolute classic bike
The good thing about riding vintage is that thieves are drooling over the electric bikes :)
Yes but are 2021 bikes better than circa 2018 bikes ,today bikes are heavier and a lot lot lot more expensive.You could get a bike in 2018 sub 8 kilos for 3k ish .Progress not sure really ...........
Look at the average speeds of the Tour de France. The fastest TDF to date is still from 2005 (Lance Armstrong). Look back to the 80's and the speeds are slower by professional standards but not by much and they were also riding steel bikes.
I wonder how many of the super light carbon frames will be safe to ride in thirty years time? Steel frames can last for many decades. I suppose that’s not an issue in our throwaway society.
It's an interesting question. It's clear very early 80/90s carbon frames haven't fared well, but my 10 year old Cannondale is showing no signs of giving up just yet. I think the issue with some carbon frames is where metal sleeves are bonded into bottom bracket and headset areas, and the bonding agent gives up after time
@@davidarthur I have a Planet X super light carbon bike from 2007, so I have ‘skin in the game’ so to speak. I think the carbon fibre itself will probably be ok, it is the resin used to hold it all together which may prove to be the problem, especially resins from decades ago, which are known to deteriorate over time, especially if exposed to sunlight and oil, salt etc. Time will tell I suppose.
The steel bikes which last three decades are the ones which haven't been ridden hard and much. Otherwise, metals fatigue and eventually break. If you race on it, it's likely to die in a crash somewhere down the line. I wouldn't put my hand in the fire that a metal road bike frame would be more likely to survive 100.000km om it than a CF one.
Can you believe that my old steel roadbike is lighter at 8.9kg than many entry level disc bikes? Modern bikes are not always lighter.
I can't believe it.
Yeah? How many speed it has
@@gersonFls7 2x10 campagnolo centaur. All alloy components. Record crank though. Still alloy. Nothing too out of the ordinary. And its a size 59.
@@luukrutten1295 I still can't bring myself to believe it
I can believe it. But no new cyclist would pay for your steel crap over a modern road bike, even if it’s lighter.
And guess who will continue to retain support for their hobby in the years to come?
Dave if you do not like riding the Cannondale can I have it please, its too nice a bike just to leave alone 😘
I do agree with the lights though its a life saver especially at night and much better than the old AA battery operated ones.
My jaw dropped for like a min after that dog got knocked😭
Personally I love down tube shifters, an all rounded cyclist should be able to use both origin and modern technology equally. The same holds true for toe clips with straps and cleats -V- clipless.
If you could still get cleated shoes, I would still be using clips and straps. I just find the connection between my foot and the pedal to be much stronger with a good slotted cleat and clips…and I never found the “dreaded” phenomenon of being “tied” to the bike to be an issue…those of us if a certain age just learned to reach down and quickly release the strap when we needed to put a foot down!
@@johns3106 when I'm riding my fixed wheel bike, I always use toe clips and straps. If I used clipless pedals, and my foot suddenly became detached from the clip, there could be a serious accident at high RPM.
Like you, I never found being tied to the bike to be an issue.
my first race bike was a 1987 Fuji with toe clips and 7 speed SiS shifters. I went over a guardrail in the rain and the bike came with me because those old cages and slotted cleats wouldn’t release.
I now have a 2021 Specialized Aethos with SRAM AXS wireless shifting and disc brakes and believe me when I say I will never own another bike with rim brakes or cable shifters. My many racing injuries and arthritic hands thank me for the ease of use of modern kit.
LOL, come on, disc brakes are noisy, usually if someone's brakes are squealing, 90% of the time, it's disc brakes.
Plus pads last a fraction of rim brake and cost 5x. This is in the dry where I ride though, maybe UK is different.
I've been riding road bikes since 1964 and I agree with everything that was said in the video except for tubeless tires. Tubeless tires have shown mixed results in professional racing, mainly because they've proven to be impractical for the mechanics that work on them. Also, I feel clipless pedals are great for competitive riders but not for recreational riders. What's good for racing is not always good for riding for fun.
It's true that tubeless tyres haven't been fully embraced by the pro peloton but here in the real world adoption is much higher and the benefits of tubeless are far greater for the everyday cyclist that wants to avoid the hassle of punctures without the safety net of a support car
@@davidarthur Maybe 20% of my club members run tubeless. Many tried but went back to tubes. Hassle of punctures? Maybe 10 minutes per years, that is less than the hassle to get a Conti 5000 Tubeless on your wheel. Personally no flats since 2017.
@@nlfiets what hassle are you talking about? How long does it take to send the bike down to the mechanic to fix a really bad leak, while you have a cup of coffee and relax till the bike is ready for collection? At most, twice a year.
Compare that to tubes. Every time I get a puncture it means a trip to the mechanic to swap the tube. That wastes even more time.
With tubes I had to send me bike to have the tubes swapped, around 7-8 turns a year. Tubeless has reduced that to 2-3 times max.
@@87togabito A mechanic doesn't change tubes, he or she expects that you can do that yourself. In my country you learn that as a chid. If you don't own a car, it is a BIG hassle to get your bike to a mechanic.
@@stibra101 by your logic, do you know how to cook? If you can’t, or can’t be bother to do so all the time, or please stop eating,
Old bikes are way better looking tho
also the prices have come a long way I want a bike that rides well not to look at and not to be scared of denting it
Using unreycleable carbon fibre to start with is a massive no, because it can't be recycled and has a short self life and difficult if not impossible to repair electric shifting is off the scale dumb..... some of your mentions are valid but on the whole and with a world wide global view without much real substance. The obsession with weight, technology and the latest thing in all spectrums of life are killing this planet.
yes... it can be recycled.
Lol. Now I’m just even more convinced that I should dump my mechanical XT shifter and go sram AXS for my mtb. My road bike is already AXS, and mtb is the next on list
And are you going to outlive the planet?
My god, the arrogance of thinking that the planet needs you to care for it. Get off your high horse. You aren’t as great as you think you are.
You need to get your hands on some outbound trail lights. True game changers in the lighting world.
Even the £20 knockoffs from companies like "Nestling" beat anything from more than 10 years ago, picked up some for the gravel bike on a whim and honestly, any brighter and think it would take too much of the fun out of night riding.
My first road bike came with 19mm tires and after flatting once a week for a month I swapped them out for some big ol' 21mm.
Disc brakes are good if you want that performance but
Rim brake rims are easier to get and rim brakes are easier to maintenance so i guess ill still stick with rim brakes for now
Hey David. What about clothing or as youse guys call it, kit. Also everything you talked about, disc brakes tubeless tyres as well as electronic shifting. Ya know think about the after-market parts compare today and what we had 30yrs ago.
Lighter yes five years ago! now they are getting heavier and cost alot more, you have to spend a fortune to get a 6.8kg disc bike today.
@@stibra101 Shhh, keep it down big cycling will have your knee caps. And especially don't talk out loud about how most of the "aero" claims of these new heavy frames often don't apply in the real world and at the speeds the vast majority of amateurs can realistically maintain on active roads.
Joop Zoetemelk! Awesome!
The Orbea Aero bike looks so much nicer without the storage box.
Was wondering if anybody would notice!
@@davidarthur What frame size is this by the way... ? Im close to putting in an order for one.. I'm 6'3
We are cycling to make an effort, climbing the mountain and to make a stronger effort... and gain 100g to make marginally less effort? Steel bike, clip pedals and down tube shifters are great and lovely. Sure, heavier, but you are just making a bit more effort, and you are anyway out to make effort.
What about tire material? And were sealed bearings a thing back then? What about chain lube? I wonder if these would be more important than aero frames n wheels. Thx.
Better in terms of numbers but not better in terms of durability -(SL7 fork and downtube)😄
Carbon stuff used to break a lot more back in the old days 😉
@@davidarthur I know but it was still new technology back in the days. I think that new bikes bacame too light and too areo so shapes of tubes are not strong enough - tubes are simply too thin. Small accident can cause damage of the frame.
I would rather have the Wilier Superleggera
I would hardly call using down-tube shifters a “skill”…it just isn’t that hard!
Especially not with the indexed down tube shifters.
Exactly. Riders managed to use them for decades. It's a natural skill aquired from riding in a classic position of using your hooks and drops as the primary hand positions, which make using them not hard at all.
But it’s definitely slower and less practical, especially on descends and climbs
Well it is a skill, just happens to be a skill you can master in about 2 rides, 3 if your a bit ham fisted like me.
@@davidgfisher Exactly. It's like knowing how to drive manual is like knowing wizardry to drivers of modern cars. If that's what was on the first thing you learned to drive, it's a natural skill you pick up quickly.
I have one of those old bikes with its 23mm tires, toe clips, and non-indexed Shimano shifters. I have to admit that it looks fantastic, but alas I prefer riding my all-carbon disc brake and Di2-equipped modern road bike. My only regret about modern bikes is that derailleurs are now merely functional items made as light and flimsy as possible. Old Shimano and Campagnolo versions were sturdy works of art with solid aluminum bodies.
Deore derailleurs today are still made with solid aluminum bodies, but of course they are heavier than Ultegra or dura ace derailleurs
Number 1 reason you are wrong...my old bike is paid for.
No question that modern bikes are better and although I am still a fan of old steel frames, I don't ever want to reach down to shift again, so lame compared to shifters up top. And I think it is all an enjoyable pursuit, buying new or cobbling together or doing whatever works with the money in hand. And the brake deal is more a racing deal, I think--discs for the racers are crazy when they're busting into big skids in the corners and getting ill-fitting bikes instead of a new wheel and, most significantly, suffering injuries from crashes caused by discs not actuating like rims.
Can somebody answer why bicycle gears teeth are only up to small
Disk brakes! Noooooooo! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Poor doggo 🐶😢
I tried both and I always go back to disk brakes!!!
While I agree with most points, modern bikes simply aren't sustainable. There's a real environmental problem with carbon fibre in landfill, with many carbon frames now coming to the end of their natural life. And the multiplicity of standards make the environmental situation even worse. The carbon footprint of a modern carbon fibre bike, often with proprietary parts, must surely be enormous, at a time when we really should be making products that are long lasting and easily repairable, with spare parts being made available for many years, and made of materials that can be recycled at the end of their life; all serious issues that are largely being ignored by the bike industry.
Are modern road bikes better than old bikes? Certainly from an environmental aspect, the answer has to be no!
Anyone buying a bike now should be asking about the carbon footprint of the bike they are interested in, and also querying both future parts availability and ease of recycling.
I will add that the economic model which produces carbon bikes is highly negative and extractive. Supporting cycling production locally, instead of some giant financialized holding enterprise is the right thing to do.
A very important issue indeed!
Maybe if most customers stepped away from carbon in favour of metal, bicycle manufacturers might invest more in them.
Same goes for hydraulics and electronics, by the way.
But, does it look like a sane person would pay good money to ride crap just for some cheap sense of self righteousness?
Pls. Get off your high horse. Not everyone is rich like you to be able to afford Money for personal validation. We have to stretch our dollars, and buy the ride that offers the best bang for the Buck, and probably resale value too for upgrades down the road.
@@87togabito do you mean all non-carbon, non-hydraulics, non-electronic bikes are crap?
@@brunocyclist Comparatively, yes. The whole sustainability thing is a red herring. CF road bikes, top shelf, electronic and hydraulic, pollute as much as burning 110l of petrol. That's two tanks of gas. Per dollar spent the difference is nothing short of astronomical.
my cheap bike is essentially a superbike from a decade ago
@@stibra101 lol why are you mad? It’s true if you consider almost 2 grand cheap(and it is for a new bike)
@@stibra101alright you get on a heavy bike from 20 years ago with no gears and no brakes and I’ll use my hydraulic discs and 10 speed modern groupset and we’ll have a race
It doesn't have to be either or. I'd rather have a custom-built steel frame with a carbon fork, wheels, and modern components than an off the shelf aero carbon bike from a major manufacturer. The difference in frame weight is maybe a pound at most, and aero wheels and kit make a bigger difference than an aero frame.
“Better” because they require less effort to ride? If the goal is to get exercise, wouldn’t a bike that requires more effort present a more challenging ride? Also if you just want to ride faster for a given level of effort, it’s not gonna make you faster than others because chances are they are not riding old vintage bikes.
So maybe “better” is really for the bike market … they get to sell more bikes cuz everyone wants the “latest and greatest”.
Good list - still think disc up front and rim brake back is the ideal combo.
Better technology yes, better looking NO.
5:56 dog breaks bike
SO TRUE 😎
Went for a ride in the rain today on my old flatbar hybrid with rim brakes. Stopping was ridiculously difficult and unsafe. Who wants that?
Other things I like include:
- Thru axles
- Electronic shifting
- Easily serviced bike chains
- Road laws to give cyclists space
Some good ones there 👍
I would have a look at your brakes, I have a rim brake commuter and ride it any weather rain/snow and the brakes work very well. Maybe look at a different pair of pads, seriously. Compared to riding in the dry the stopping difference is only a couple of meters difference... if that and if you try and stop any quicker you are risking sliding out in poor weather.
Damien O@ You better have a look at those brakes.
With rim brakes you must regularly clean the braking surface of the rims, just use some wet toilet paper and wipe them down before a ride.
Also adjust the barrel adjusters on front and rear, turn them anti-clockwise to tighten the response time of the pads.
And i recommend taking the wheels off and cleaning the brake pads regularly with soapy water and a sponge.
Use a knifes edge or something narrow to get the crud out between the pads. (Some even recommend filing down the pads a bit so that they bite better after some use).
Good luck.
@@coffeepot3123 thanks ! Will do.
@@damo5219 just dump the rim brakes and go disc. There is a reason MTBs have used that for the last 2 decades and dumped rim brakes
That poor dog 🙁
You mentioned indexed gearing, but I am surprised that you didn't mention electronic shifting.
Fair point. I think electronic gears are great but I could happily live with mechanical - I reckon the move to indexed and integrated shifters was a bigger development
motor bike prices, no thanks
It does not matter if a road bike is new or old. Both are not as cool as a mountain bike and never will be. Half the new tech on modern road bikes is stolen from mountain bikes anyhow.
Let's not forget the increase of weight of 400 grams with Disc, compromised aerodynamics,you don't see disc on TT bikes,same with tyres....no tyres over 25 mm on bikes built for speed (Tyre pressures may be reduced from years ago).
It’s superior… apart from the price
Another pointless commercial for discs and not needed 12x drivetrains.So un-original🥱
This is the modern world...we have 1.0 cars producing 140 bhp years ago it was 50 hp just like bikes we have electric groupsets rather than unreliable clunky downtube shifters etc etc
Who needs heavy disc brake bikes on your summer bike .....
At this point in time, disc brakes don't need commercials.
@@davemellor4697 What eaxactly was unreliable and clunky about downtube shifters? Granted STI was a giant advance, especially shifting under load, but a properly set up downtube shifter was no less reliable than driving stick shift with manual drive. Just a different skillset that came with riding, and understanding your shifts, which indexing and STI levers simplified the same way automatic did in cars.
@@danielhall3895 And never mind the price difference, downtube shifters were/are incredibly low cost compared to sti/ergo's
That was horrible how could you randomly include that crash into a dog😩
Are you vegan though?... ;p
This channel is Rubbish. Disc brakes ruined the look, the weight, and the aerodynamic of the bicycles. And you said tubeless is better than clincher?? I am going to unsubscribe. You Channel is misleading. Absolute rubbish.
You can't handle someone having a different opinion to you?
lol. Probably a 40-50 year old cyclist that rides an old rim brake bike, who Once tried/is trying to go pro but failed/is failing miserably. And now spends his days being bitter that he lacks a real job that would allow him to get one.
@@87togabito a fool like you will always fell prey to marketing gimmicks.
@@davidarthur David I apologise if I appeared to be too blunt. To me, a good TH-camr has to know the science behind the topics he is on. Not marketing gimmicks.
@@sbsb4995 well, you talk about looks which are totally subjective and yes disc brakes are currently heavier, that's no great mystery, but you're confused about aero unless you have 'science' to back up your claim. And yes tubeless IMHO is better than clincher. I know not everybody agrees and that's fine