Brand new Underworlds: Embergard?! Ermahgerd! Full video rundown and commentary!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- We go through the whole #newunderworlds Embergard video and point out all the changes we found and dicuss what we think that will do for the game!
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My morning coffee landed partially on the screen due to the "Hi Nick!". Don't do such things without warning! :P
Apologies 😂
Great video guys! I agree, I think we got a rough shape but looking to see it full flush when launch comes.
Definitely!
I’m glad there’s going to be more Underworlds. I’m not a competitive player, but I love all the fantastic minis, warbands, quick playing time, and ease of getting people to play. More Underworlds = more fun!
Heck yeah!
Such a great in depth analysis you two! As someone who came to Underworlds later on (Direchasm) this version seems like GW is saying "how can we produce this game for less money". And nowhere else is that more glaring than the change in card art. Gone are those beautiful drawings and in place we have generic pictures of the models. I'm sorry but the cards are just ugly now and feel so much cheaper. I have loved collecting the cards for Underworlds over the years and having missed out on the first few seasons I had to resort to overpaying on ebay to try and complete my collection from Shadespire to Beastgrave. But I didn't mind because the cards were so gorgeous and I spent countless amounts of time just leafing through my binders looking at them. Perhaps those new starter set boxes over the past few years haven't brought in new sales for GW so here we are. I just hope they will go back to those early seasons of 1 core box with lots more individual warbands because with every core box they release with yet more boards and tokens I am finding it harder and harder to stay interested. I only have so much storage space in a 1 bed flat and as a collector I am unable to throw the boxes away!! 😆
Well they said no more 6 monthly boxes which is good. I suspect it was due a reboot as it’s been 7 years of mostly the same stuff and bloat was getting ridiculous
It's had a good run, not the worst thing for it to get a refresh
100% Stripping it down and rebuilding the player base is no bad thing.
After seven years it one of the longest supported GW games to go without getting a revamp so yeah it’s probably time it got a refresh
New edition removes too many of the things I enjoyed, unfortunately.
I was interested in seeing your take specifically on my way out so I'm glad you guys are still keen on it.
Might still be worth a try if you already have a bunch of models? I guess they can’t change it much while still leaving it all the same but the end result is never going to be for everyone sadly
@@jeckles I agree - I think I'm to just work towards making a nice underworlds before overhaul set and calling it a day haha.
Not a fan of photos. Cards look fan-made and on a budget. Fat chance but I wish they went back to putting art on cards.
I'm not that competitive so theme of every warband oozing from their faction deck was my favorite thing in this game. It was my main point when I was describing this game to my friends.
Aside from these 2 issues changes looks fine and imo more approachable for new players
The changes definitely make it more approachable. How much character the warbands lose I guess we’ll have to wait and see once it comes out. 🤞
I would rather have some good AI art on the cards then photos...
I definitely would not.
totally agree, photos look cheap. i'd prefer they recycled the old art like FFG do for their licenced games.
@@Tooupi At this point, I also hope they release an art book so we can remember our favourite cards. Some of them were grotesque, but so many of them had a special charm to them which gave so much character to our warbands.
The most egregious change to me is the cardbacks. When you buy a game, it's supposed to be YOUR game. Most companies understand that, but GW is an exception. Everything is catered to the competitive player in stores (which I've never witnessed IRL), and they only care about the latest edition. You'd think they'd also care about players like me and my wife, who literally own all things Underworlds and want to still be able to play using deckbuilding across all years.
I hated when the cardbacks changed to look like gramma's parlor games in Harrowdeep, and I hate it now that each non-atmospheric deck looks like the colour was chosen out of a child's crayon box. These constant overhauls to make cash are just disrespectful to those of us who collect GW's games with the intent to play. Seasons 1 through 4 were made with a ton of love, with 1,200+ cards for every two seasons, and now they are so lazy that they can't even design 32 cards to prop up the new factions anymore. They can no longer afford a digital illustrator anymore apparently, so we're getting photoshopped miniatures on the cards. That part I don't mind too much, except I guarantee the new price is going to be higher when the value in the box is closer to those promotional starter sets designed for certain retailers.
That's the end of my rant, except: Crits rule! We love crits, because they are reminiscent of the old-school British game design of WHQ95 and other stuff by designers like Andy Jones where crazy fun stuff happens and characters get heroic moments.
With literally thousands of wasted cards sitting in boxes I’d rather have less waste and more reusable cards than the approximately 10% of useful cards they produced before
@@AgentsofSigmar The warbands delve for cards to add to their deck before each tourney battle at my house, so the thousands of cards are more "endless possibilities" and a way to show improvement on a warband than just storage. That's why the earlier season cards are actually more useful than the new rivals decks that are very much dependent on internal synergies. Which decks are available depends on which location the battle takes place: Shadespire, Beastgrave, Harrowdeep, the Gnarlwood, Deathgorge, and coming soon (as my wife is already calling it): Amberherd.
I was optimistic until the end of the video when you all talked about the upgrades and objectives that are going to disappear from warbands - their identities are crucially tied to their cards and play style - which is now gone.
I would t say it’s crucially tied, there’s an element there but then in regular play how often did people use a load of the cards… sure it’ll change a bit but hopefully the warscrolls will continue to give each warband a unique flavour, guess we’ll find out
On one level I agree with you. After all The Thricefold Discord are great because of their false gifts and temptations.
But on reflection it's our experience of the game that once better non faction alternatives are available, people just pick those cards. Flavour is soon turned over for deck efficiency.
I do think it's a shame the option has gone but I don't ultimately think it will be missed that much.
And all too often with recent "flavoursome" warbands the special rules have fundamentally broken or distorted core rules of the game, this is confusing for new players and leads to a burgeoning FAQ when edge case interactions are discovered.
@@AgentsofSigmar Sadly, with every band having access to all decks/cards it will become a meta chase like every card game. Im 100% sure that everyone will be playing the same (perceived) best deck, and we know GW is not specially known for making balanced stuff. I enjoy nemesis, the deck building part and how iconic each warband feels so I dont think this new version is for me. :S The lack of art is a minor thing, but in truth, to me it shows a lack of interest/investment from GW in the game.
I imagine they have ran their numbers and the new influx of players will make up for those who leave, and its not a big deal really. Not a knee jerk reaction here. There's a ton of leisure options these days: other wargames, board games, computer games... and I can devote my time and money to something else. But the couple of years I've spent focused on UW will be fondly remembered. :D
I think if GW were interested in investing in the game they’d have kept doing what they were doing. To me this shows a significant investment. Also I’m pretty sure deck building will remain by combining the various decks that they’re releasing. I also dont think the meta chasing will be any different now to before, the tournaments were all showing similar top winners of late, it’s the nature of the game. They’ll avoid this with hopefully regular releases.
@@AgentsofSigmar Is there any indication/hint that you are gonna be able to combine decks? I highly doubt it. Most miniature players (40k, KT, WC) are turned off by the card aspect of UW. Its the reason they give when you approach them at the LGS and ask them to try UW. And I think its quite obvious that the card aspect has been steadily reduced from championship, to nemesis, to rivals and now this. I bet if there's a new edition in the future it will be a warscroll and a set of actions and no cards.
Not a fan of removing all the artwork and replacing it with photography
It's not ideal. A purely commercial decision, I guess. And at least it won't effect the gameplay.
@@AgentsofSigmar Yeah I totally agree - I think it will fix a lot of the issues of not knowing who is who on fighter cards but does feel like it takes away some of the flavour.
I like that the faction specific abilities (cards) would now be all available and ready for use. Less RNG for the warband "flavor" in the fight.
Yeah you know exactly when you can pull the trigger on some tricks now rather than relying on the deck
Great video guys! I was an avid wu player for the first 3-4 seasons. Really excited to get back into the underworlds with this!
Welcome back. Bring your friends!!
I am a little trepidatious about seeing the faction decks go away as that brought a lot of fun and flavor to each warband, but I do understand the necessity of it if there was ever to be an updated edition of the game given the are so many decks that would need updating. That said I am looking foward to getting more easily getting my friends into a more streamlined and accessible version of this fantastic game though.
It is the opposite for me. In our store we made an effort to involve younger players and magic players to start a warband or more, i hate to say that this change probably will not bring more people but probably all the young ones will leave. That is the problem with GW fans, most of them are old... I want people happy about this change to tell a 16 years old boy that he has to throw away cards, boards and maybe his warband, if he is unlucky to have one not updated, and buy again those stuff... I would pay to see our duo or some other grognard doing that...
If you've bought in recently then I'm 100% sure you'll be safe with what you have. If you were 16 in Shadespire days you're 23 now and probably left your toys behind.
When you come back in their 40s, who knows if UW will still be there.
I would like to watch a video about top gambits, upgrades and objetive cards from the last edition. I mean the best card to kill, to hold, or easy to score.
Not sure there’s much mileage in us covering the old system
I've got all 60 odd warbands and have shelled out to sleeve the cards. Appreciate I've got the minis which are lovely but wtf
personally I'll never understand sleeving all the cards, sorry....
Thanks for making this video. Great analysis of the available information.
I genuinely thought that Underworlds was being cancelled so the announcement of a new edition is a pleasant and welcome surprise. I’ll miss the artwork on the cards but at least it’ll be easier to figure out which card belongs to which fighter now!
In regard to the board and territories, I wonder if Underworlds will have multiple deployment maps ala 40K?
Anything is possibly after this recent massive announcement! 😱
The loss of faction decks is going to be such a massive blow to the game. And it's making me struggle to be excited for the new edition. It's just so rough for new players and old players alike. And I'm terrified of them ruining nemesis (legitimately one of the best deck building mechanics I've ever seen). I really don't like the new mini photos in my cards, it looks cheap and it will get repetitive very fast. Other than that everything looks fine. But yeah, loss of faction cards is really rough. Thricefold Discord and Zondara have been gutted, and I fully expect everything to become way more samey.
I can’t see how this ruins nemesis so long as you have two decks to build with you have the same challenges and opportunities
I’m going to miss my Rippa’s faction deck. Great deck even not combined with others in Nemesis format. And I’m kicking myself for having bought Rivals of the Mirrored City for the new decks, since I already had the models.
Yeah us too. It’s unfortunate timing but I guess they need to draw the line somewhere and they can’t leave it too long between releases else everyone would have walked away. It’s a hard line to walk
If they were serious about rekindlling some of the popularity of the original release, they'd launch at a similar price to shadespire.
They could afford to do it, and I think the current price is prohibitively expensive for new players.
Ask gw to go back to prices from 7 years ago? We might as well wish for an end to world hunger while we’re at it 😂
@@AgentsofSigmar If they're serious about having a big player base, unironically, yes.
Price is definitely one of the reasons why people aren't interested anymore in the current iteration.
A loss leader approach could certainly help boost uptake, leading to more product being sold down the line.
It will be interesting to see what they do. Savings have clearly been made from the design changes, will any of that pass on? (Robin)
@@AgentsofSigmar And in this case, it's an obvious opportunity. For the small amount that they leave on the table for the starter box, they would more than make up for people buying war bands as impulse buys. They are like Pokemon where people have to buy em all...
I hear you. My son is a competitive Poke-player 🔥💵😭
I'm quite new player and really exited, I really hope they bring all old warbands back in some limited run at least. That 20 is just the launch wave, right?
So nearly all current warbands are getting PDFs. 16 of them are being physically resold with the new cards (not 100% sure if they will also get PDFs or not) 4 new warbands with this season and that’s all initial stuff so there will be other new warbands to follow
I can see why it’s good for GW. I can see why it might be good for the game as a larger picture. It isn’t necessarily exciting to me i am afraid: I don’t have a ton of stuff for WHU but I am a bit apprehensive about the changes combined with invalidating much of what I do have.
I am still really tempted to give it a try because I love that Skaven warband
It’s refreshing to see such a balanced response! At least all your models will still be usable from the get go with all the PDFs being produced 👍
The party Is sadly over!
The V1 party maybe, V2 is just gearing up 🥳
With the newest Warhammer Community article it seems like all the current warbands are getting rules, with 20 of them getting released physically (16 being old warbands). My guess is that the 20 will be the warbands that are tournament legal, and the others will be only for casual play.
Yeah. Certainly for official tournaments. Sadly due to Warcom crashing last night that info wasn't to hand when we recorded the video
@@AgentsofSigmar yeah, the crash was pretty unfortunate. Thanks for the great content as usual! I was eagerly awaiting to see what you two thought about the new edition, as I feel of the UW content creators out there what I want in a game aligns most closely with you two like.
Deff excited to give Underworlds a try now. The whole rotating card system always put me off and it seemed like a lot of effort just to play with 3 models. I hope it's simpler and easier to get into.
I suspect there will still be an element of card rotation these types of games always do but it’s always easier to get into it at the start and easier to follow
The "if it's tournament legal" you will be able to buy it comment actually suggests that only the 16 bands that will get cards will get repackaged and considered "tournament legal", while the rest of the 58 will get downloadable rules but considered legacy (kinda like the two-tier kill-team system).
As far as release date goes, they mentioned that there will be more info about parts of the game "next week" so I think we'll get preorderes in two-three weeks.
One thing that I haven't seen discussed is that they mentioned that there won't be any every half-year boxes anymore. So I expect just decks and bands, but released seperately - which everyone will be happy about.
In general though I'm really happy - sure there are some things we're gonna miss, but the game NEEDED a reboot to fix many minor issues with it, and that's what we're getting. And we're going to get new blood injected into the game, which is the most important thing for the longevity of the game.
As far as deckbuidling, I think it will be something like - you have a format where you take two valid decks, or one that you take any card from a valid rivals deck. But "valid deck" is any deck from the last two-three years (so basically a rotation), where the cards in rotation are guaranteed to be sold.
P.S. the ratz look effing awesome!
Agreed on all points
If i cant use my direchasm era bands, I'm not coming back
@@dominicparker6124well they said they’ll be releasing PDFs for all warbands to be immediately playable. There will be 20 valid for “organised play” but that’s mostly GW specific events, anyone running a tournament can decide what to allow in
@@dominicparker6124 I'm pretty sure you will be able to download a PDF, print it and play.
Great informative video! The changes should fare well for the game, at least for the most part.
And I wonder if they’ll eventually make a 40K version of this game??
I think not for a good while now.
Honestly I am Warhammer Underwhelmed
A big W for older teams getting support at least for launch. I am less apprehensive now. Still, could we not get some city of sigmar miniatures instead of stormcast for once? Personally the stormcast feel very limited in how unique they can make them compared to most of the other aos factions. Otherwise neat!
We’re still waiting for our CoS Prince to come 🙏
I have not played Underworlds for a while since I have been testing out other systems with friends, but the lack of news was starting to get worrying so the news of the new edition is incredible. Better believe I am grabbing the new box and I love both teams.
We suspect the lack of news was due to the winding down of the old version and prep for the new versions release
@AgentsofSigmar It would make sense and if rumours are true about some of the upcoming teams it is going to be exciting
@@VaellasI didn’t want to believe some of the rumours as they sounded too amazing but now we’ve seen those skaven anything is possible!😮
It's an interesting point where the guys talk about words like "better" etc as being subjective, when in the marketing for the game it states "More enjoyable!" 😂
I mean...I'm going to play it. One thing is I've suddenly inherited hundreds of sleeves I don't need anymore as all of my faction decks are sleeved and I have the vast majority of the warbands.
yeah companies are always going to hype up their own product, we kinda assume that is a given 😄
The only people I have to play are relatives so I dont really see the appeal yet. Maybe if the box is priced very well?
It’s definitely not necessarily something for everyone depending on you’re player base
But also to add, this new version may make it more appealing to those who are slightly less gamers too
The price will be the deciding factor for me. If it ends up being £75 - £80, then at that point I'd probably start looking at a game like Heroscape instead, which seems to be around £110 online.
@@PincherPlaysPoorly If its at or over the last Wintermaw price I wont get the box. They really need to price it at the Starter Set prices to be interesting...
And I was just thinking about buying the Barnes and Noble starter set.
Yeah. Don't do that. 😀
@@AgentsofSigmar It is only 35 dollars but has old warbands. Skeletons and Hammer Sigmarines.
@@bradp6452possibly not worth it with all the new stuff as most the boards and cards are no longer valid
Just wait a little longer, maybe GW ist updating these boxes as well.
If you want a quality Barnes and noble gw box, blitz bowl is right there and it's excellent
True WHU was closed in 2024. He was closed at the height of his glory, like a hero. We won't forget you, you were the best game!
Underworlds is dead. Long live underworlds!
Gotta say. It looks a bit Bladeborned.
It does a little.
Hey, thanks for the video. I know its not easy putting content together at such short notice! Great insight! As someone once said... Underworlds is Dead, Long Live Underworlds!
Cheers much appreciated! 😊
Yes long live Underworlds
Are they removing the ability to have 3-4 player games? I organise casual rivals games where I live. Losing that would probably kill the game for us.
They haven’t specifically mentioned it but given the removal of halves of board we suspect so. Just keep your boards and use them for multi player games is my suggestion
When Nick says warbands which are legal for organised play, does that mean that there will be some warbands which will no longer be legal, such as the Shadespire and Nightvault warbands? This new format and new cards would be a perfect opportunity to rebalance beloved warbands from that era which don't really stand a chance (looking at Vortemis, Theddra, Garrek, and later on from the Beastgrave seasons Fecula and Morgwaeth in particular), and I'm hoping that he just means that the old decks won't be available but the warbands will be.
I'm really excited about finally being able to get warbands such as Gnarlspirit Pack, Sons of Velmorn, Ephilim's Pandemonium and Thricefold Discord without having to buy yet more big core set boxes. Although with the new format coming out, it does look like getting my hands on a copy of Deathgorge/Wintermaw might be the way to go, so that I'll always have the most up-to-date version to play with the old cards for casual play at home. I'm still playing Nightvault with my son, and now that the Underworlds we love is ending, it makes sense to get the most up to date version. Especially as Deathgorge has beautiful boards, and both warbands are really nice.
Legal for organised play. But that’s only GW run events, nothing stopping people allowing them in their own tournaments.
@@AgentsofSigmar Do we know where the cutoff is? Or is there hope that the Shadespire warbands will get cards for the new format and perhaps even start to become competitive?
@@Charsiupao I'm pulling that from nowhere but cards shows older but popular bands like Crimson Court and Rippa's Snarlfangs.
I think all bands will get some rules but the chosen 16 (from different seasons) will be in stock, will receive special attention and will be legal in current competitive "season". After seasons end, they will rotate some or all and different bands will be in the limelight
It’s not clear at this stage what will be in and what will be out. All we know is there are 16 old warbands and 4 new ones that will be “valid” for competitive organised play initially
Yes all warbands will get PDFs making them all playable day 1 which is great!
You know, one of the good things about getting rid of bespoke decks is that it kind of makes it easier for get new players into the game. I remember when Wyrdhollow came out and people were saying "yeah, the warbands are looking amazing, especially Ephilim's Pandaemonium, but that warband is significantly harder to play as opposed to Domitan's Stormcoven so we don't recommend it to newbies". This way, if you're teaching someone a game, you can just let them choose a warband they think looks hot and give them one of the more straighforward decks even if they are not the most optimal for that warband.
The only thing that worries me is that they're going to remove decks from warband boxes and just keep warscrolls and fighter cards in them. On one hand, it's probably good idea, otherwise you get into the situation prior to the release of Harrowdeep where you're forced to buy warband you don't care about in order to stay competitive. On the other hand, we're going to get less stuff in a box for the exact same price.
You are speaking of the new possible players... Tell me of the ones that recently started the game, most of them young? Do you really think that a 15 years old will buy again boards, cards or a new warband if they are unlucky to have one that GW will not update? Or are we always speaking of adults over 30 as new players??
Yeah it does mean less stuff. But hopefully that means less stuff to store and eventually lob during rotations etc. silver linings and all that. And like you say it’s going to be even easier to intro new people to the game
@@Manlio.Cipullothere’s always going to be a bad patch when a game gets updated and people who just bought stuff find it already outdated, unfortunately
There’s not a lot can be done about that it’s just bad luck… if GW didn’t revamp games every time someone bought something nothing would ever change 🤷♂️
Any news on backwards compatibility?
They've said that all warbands will get pdf's on release to make them playable, 16 will be getting re-released as well alongside 4 new warbands and those 20 will be valid for organised play (though there's nothing stopping people allowing all of them)
Do you think Ready for Action will return in some form?
OMG that's hadn't occurred to me... I do hope so!!!
I will always applaud the guts to hard stop a bloating system and try to make it simpler and more accessible to a wider audience.
I will never support cost-cutting for the sake of pure profit and stiffing artists (mainly because people will hold corporations accountable on that now)
Sad about the board and card art, happy about less deck building and complexity.
I just want to be able to play older warbands (coughcoughWurmspat) at a reasonably competitive level.
It definitely does take guts to draw a line in the sand and say “nope, we need to reboot”.
Here’s hoping the free pdf releases for them aren’t half bad.
I can’t say I can complain too much about the sake of cutting art to save money, if the choice was no art and a game still supported vs no game due to expense of running I know which id pick.
@@AgentsofSigmar I really only say that about the art because GW have a history of not crediting their talent, from model paintjobs to book art, if they could get away with not doing it, they would.
Interested in seeing if they'll credit the photographer now, but I won't hold my breath...
@@TimPoultneyI can see why they don’t. They’ve had multiple talent leave to go it alone after they’ve given them a platform to showcase their stuff. As a company it doesn’t make sense to do that and continually lose staff. They should pay them more so they want to stay but they never happens, it’s why they stop regular staff being their “face”
As someone who had played exactly one game of the current edition the feedback is offer GW is too not be too cheap with warscroll and fighter cards. Give us two of each so we can have a copy of our opponent's cards as reference.
It’s a nice idea but unlikely with newer warbands. Though they are going to produce PDFs for all historic warbands so you can print them all out as much as you like 😄
@@AgentsofSigmar Toos all over the place - typed that on my phone. Going to a copy shop and getting a full colour printout on laminated card stock could be an idea then.
@@namewastaken360you could certainly do that. As we’re going to be dumping cars stock several years old that haven’t seen light for several years we’ll probably just print stuff as we need it to save space 😄
Oh the photos for the card art is a crying shame... They just go back through old GW magazines and screen grab.
pretty sure those are new shots with effects added on
@@AgentsofSigmar I hope so. Even still, its a change that shows a lack of effort
@@TheWisestofGuys its certainly a different way of doing it and probably quicker/less effort, what the reason is behind that we won’t know 🤷♂️
another great video and analysis, thanks so much!
I add:
1) in the last two years it has been shown that the game is appreciated much more on a casual level (rival and nemesis) than on a competitive level (champion)
2) forcing players to buy a box every 6 months just to have the rival decks it was really frustrating
3) adding rules and FAQs and complexity every six months no longer coincided with the casual format of the game
4) some warbands (even recent ones post Gnarlwood) in rivals and nemesis simply didn't win, which was also very frustrating
5) finally after years of requests, GW is deciding (at all levels) to bring the downloadable and updated rules online, better late than never!
6) miniatures games like Spearhead (super popular in my area) are the future for those who love fast, balanced, moderately competitive games!
I only see positive aspects to this new format of the game, from my point of view as a casual player.
Only flaw? being a card game you expect a design, attractive graphics and not cold photos of miniatures from the studio, this is a real and serious flaw, sorry! the graphic part is the basis of a card game! Come on!
Yeah. I think we agree with pretty much all of that (especially the bit about our great analysis 🙂).
I agree about the card art. The more Combat Cards look is not a positive step.
@@AgentsofSigmar I hope new bands come out or reprints of old ones (as already happened) without any cards (let's save paper!) with all the material to play updated online. I hope 4 rilvals come out every 6 months and that these 4 decks are the current season. I hope for fixed rules for at least 3 years...will it just be an illusion? 😅
Fixed rules for even 2 years would be great!
And PDFs for all. That's the hope.
hurray, another sigmarine band -_- barf
Some things, like Thanos are inevitable.
I’m hoping that you guys get an early access for review and we can get a bit closer dive
us too! 🤞😄
I love TCG's and Minatare games but i just couldn't get into the digital version of this game, I hope this new one is better. It would be awesome if they were closer to MTG heroscape in design.
The digital version of UW was not the best thought out plan 😓
@@AgentsofSigmar is the physical version different? I tried the digital version first to see if liked the game cause it was way cheaper than the physical version.
Assuming you're talking about Warhammer Underworlds online. The two games are very different now.
The online version never really captured the fun of the physical game.
@@AgentsofSigmar That's good to hear that I was wrong. I'm looking forward to seeing this new edition. Thanks man. You guys are awesome.
"If you make the WarScroll a pdf its easy to print..." You bet... and judging from the past and the amount of FAQs/Erratas GW has in general in their games (40k, Kill Team, UW, really everything...) expect to be printing stuff a lot! In fact, I honestly doubt it. They havent really cared to give updated versions of a single card in years... so I really see more likely that they continue to churn out errata and expect you to write over your precious WarScroll. Honestly. 🤷♂
They’ve never given updated cards but recently reproduced several AoS war scrolls after alterations so who knows…
I'm all for new things, but this is a hard sell. Game hopefully improved, still competitive and not an "introductory game" to get new players into the hobby; we already have warcry. This soo far looks cheap. Fingers crossed.
The main rules still seem to mostly be the same, a nice balance of simple to learn but constantly coming up with new challenging combos so should still be the game we love
@@AgentsofSigmar think Im just pissy because I ordered wyrdhollow not 3 days ago, then this. Have miniatures now I guess…
@@nomadcaravantales84that’s a valid reason. The mirrored city release is also a little irksome with its timing but these things sometimes happen. Given it was so recent could you return it or is it too late? Like you say at least you have the models and they might but so easy to get in the future
Those dwarves in the tunnels are READY FOR ACTIOOON and you know it! ❤
Bugger, just painted the starter set and played the scripted intro game.
Slightly annoying timing I’ll grant but the likelihood is the game won’t change too drastically and we’ll be doing our best to show off all the differences to players of the previous version and newer players too to help
I'm pretty excited about the models, I've already decided to paint up the Stormcasts in the same "Deathwatch" style as I did my Soulsworn Questors for Warcry, the Skaven will be matched with my current Skaven army so everything will fit in with what I have.
I hope we'll see a Chaos Duardin warband now at some point 😛
You never know! 🤞
Not gonna lie, as a newish player to the game this changes feel really bad, i think I'll just keep on playing the old way with my wife and not downgrade the game to this stripped down version
it was a slightly badly timed entry unfortunately, but we're still pretty sure this new version is going to be more fun
It's clearly a change not aimed at making a cooler game but at making a product that is cheaper and easier to produce and maintain. Cutting out card art entirely, cutting down design time/cost by making bands have 4 themed abilities in total instead of per fighter abilities and inspire conditions and warband decks with tons of band-specific abilities interactions all done to fit bands flavor (which ofc requires a lot of work, balancing, etc). Also this change makes it easier to sell bands as products for other games and to keep them in stock for longer, as they now don't need to include any cards.
These are all easy to understand corporate decisions. Just greedy or necessary, who knows. But the sad part is that the cost paid for this change is fully sacrificing the coolest thing this game had - the diverse and unique bands design that gave the game it's depth and flavor.
New game might turn out ot be a decent casual game, who knows. But it's just painful how bland it all looks and feels.
So excited for new underworlds coupled with your expertise over the years - am a lifelong subscriber to AGENTS of SIGMAR with Pete & Robin!!
Awww bless yer 😊🙏
The changes they plan to introduce will ruin Underworlds. Simplifying the rules, removing synergy between models within warbands in favor of three basic, one-time-use abilities on warscrolls, and discarding the old decks in favor of four new basic ones (and I suspect they’ll also get rid of warband-specific decks) all degrade the tactical depth of the game, reducing it to something much more simplistic. And what will we get in return? A simple game with one board that limits warband deployment, warbands with characters that have no abilities, and a basic warscroll? At that point, you might as well just buy Warcry, because it's almost the same thing.
Games can have tactical depth without millions of abilities.
On the surface it does seem there has been some downgrading of difficulty but it's a trade off. I'd rather have a game with a decent player base than one that was slowly losing players.
I'll be perfectly honest, Underworlds should never have left the Shadespire setting. Successive seasons could have explored different sectors of the city like Nightvault did. As for the new edition, I think they've completely gutted the soul of this game. I know it's early days but no faction decks and 3-4 unique rules per Warband is ridiculous. The biggest sin is the fact NONE of the previous boards are viable now. Sorry for ranting but this game looks no longer viable. Time to move onto Kill Team.
Shadespire was a favourite setting of mine but 7 years of it would’ve probably got very boring
Very excited for this new edition.
Lots of people, including us, seem to be!
@@AgentsofSigmar honesty it doesn't seem like many people approve this direction... especially the core base
Underworlds was a quick paced game to begin with, even if running into a bad game it is over quickly enough that you can just let it play out and rerack.
There is absolutely zero need to speed it up more and make it "more action packed from the get go"...
Just trust GW to ruin even the very few good games they manage to create.
I'm not sure that statement holds much truth. I guess it's probably going to be harder to skulk at the back of the board but UW was (almost) always immediately into the action.
You guys nailed it in the last 20 min or so. There will always be dissappintments with changes, and these changes in particular seem to numb the game a bit, but I see this as a opportunity to inflate the already small player base. Perhaps after all these changes and reductions in actual physical product the core set will be more affordable as well (high hopes for GW)? I really appreciate the extremeley positive attitude looking at this as well, as many people already seem to be pessimistic. Keep up the great work guys! :)
Aww, thank you. The game has never been perfect but it's always been great. This new flavour offers us something different. Looking forward to taking the game and the community to new levels with version 2.
On a more pragmatic note, what's the point in grumbling, it's not going to change anything!
@@AgentsofSigmar Exactly! I admit, I started out pretty pessimistic too. But I'm really hoping to use this as an opportunity to spark some life in my local community! :)
I think a lot of people are knee jerking hard right now and need help working through their emotions 😄
It will certainly make the game bland. And that blandness is why I dropped Warcry. So I am likely out. I’ll give the new WU a shot, but I am not hopeful.
By it, I am referring to the lack of faction-decks and fighter-card abilities.
I can take a little blandness for greater support, player base and an all a round still fun game that’s quicker and simpler to play
quicker? I already felt like you had two fewer rounds than you needed to do all the stuff you had planned in your brain
@@AgentsofSigmar Robin, Pete... I am on board with nearly every other change they seem to be implementing for Underworlds. Reaction windows cleaned up? Great! One board? Why not! Clarified and even simplified interactions to promote ease of play? I'm ready to go down that road with you GW.
But remove the elements that make me feel like I am playing in the Warhammer universe? Remove the theme?!?! Hell no, that is one of the two main reasons I returned to GW. That is a step too far. Each faction represented by 4 once-per-game abilities is more than "a little blandness." But then, I'm from the Caribbean... we are accustomed to more spice in our lives. ;-)
To be clear, I will give it a fair shake to be sure of what GW has done with our game. I hope I am wrong about the faction-flavor issue, but I'm very doubtful.
@@TravDadGamer Hahaha, fair point. But the other factor that made me fall in love with WU was the tight ruleset that led to agonizing decisions on how to make use of one's 12 actions. This element is just amazing.
Good in depth review of the teaser.
Nice job guys.
Thankyou glad you enjoyed it 😊
I'll be sticking to olderworlds. I don't like the sound of any of these changes
That’s the good thing about it, no one needs to stop using anything they have 👍
Thanks for the video gents - loving the positive approach to reviewing all the changes!
I’m really looking forward to the refresh and hopefully it’ll bring more people in to the competitive scene as it’s been a bit stale for a while.
Let’s hope your November event will be Embergard all the way!!!
We currently have no idea what we’re going to do! 😰 maybe it’ll be a final farewell to underworlds 1.0 nemesis tournament 🤔
I just got into the game, bought the starter set and an extra band. I wonder of the universal decks are going to sell by themselves as well as the boards from the get go. Also how the one board is gonna handle 3-4 players I’m literally on the process of getting my friends in the game that way.
I’d suspect they will do away with 3 and 4 player versions as it wasn’t very widely played. And they won’t sell the decks or boards separately based on the previous version
i think the game needed a reboot and probably there was no other way to do it. it borders on the board game side butd every time i tried to introduce it to someone unfamiliar to wargames/miniatures/card games, by slowly introducing rules we never reached the full on game...too difficult to grasp all the rules for a lot of boardgamers..hopefully it becomes more accesible with the new edition
Yeah we’re hoping that too!
I’m really looking forward to the new edition. I haven’t played since Shadespire and was disillusioned by card chasing. I think this will be a great fresh start for me. I do hope they keep the quirky warbands (I absolutely love Zarbag’s Gitz). For now, tin foil hat may be removed.
Im genuinely interested if you would feel so upbeat about this had you not been given all the product for free by GW, the attachment to seven years investment of you own cash is a lot different than the attachment to something you’re given for free.
Anyway as a long time player collector there’s nothing here that inspires me to continue, and here are my main reasons:-
1/ invalidation of my whole collection of cards, which have been meticulously sleeved and maintained in order.
2/the new card design itself looks awful, like cheap as hell, like the main goal was to save £ by not having any art. These look like the old combat cards, and not in a good way.
3/what purpose does having an extra card, the larger warscroll, achieve? It contains the same info as the fighter cards used to contain.
4/I’m not a fan of the symbols as replacements for words - as for warcry
5/the board - and this is one of my main issues - the current 2 x double sided half boards with choices of placement and orientation allows for an almost infinite amount of variety of the play space, that has a direct affect to the strategy of the game, now we have exactly 8 options, so a much reduced variety.
6/Following on from above this new board where everyone is forced into contact immediately will straight away penalise non aggro warbands.
7/the new stormcast, even though I’m sick to death of them anyway, look really bad here, I mean even the fur looks terrible, the bases used to be nice scenic efforts but now it’s just textured and with a tactical rock or ten. The Skaven do look very nice though!
Lastly this for me feels like it’s been dumbed down to the “beer and pretzel” level game, so I’m glad they dropped the tagline about it being the ultimate blah blah, now it looks like everyone will be forced into aggro straight away, even the design of the hex layout sees less at the back and more in the middle, indicating that you’re supposed to end up pilling in at the middle. Final thoughts, the game LOOKS cheap, the loss of artwork and new design looks like it was designed to save money, but I’m sure the price point won’t drop, which to be honest probably already put off as many people as the seemingly “overly complicated”(seriously??) rules did, but again I assume you guys will be receiving it for free anyway.
My final annoyance was merely months ago rebuying the “rivals of the mirrored city” set just for the updated cards, as it was the only way to get them, only for them to now be useless. Thanks GW! I guess I should have learned my lesson by now as far as the longevity and continuity of gw printed materials.
The whole thing feels like “reinventing the wheel” to reset the purchasing cycle, nothing more, but done on the cheap.
I’m sure you can keep all your meticulously sleeved cards right where they are no problem
@@AgentsofSigmar what, to look at? Be kind of nice to be able to use them for the purpose I bought them for.
GW won't actually stop you from playing the old game - so you can still play with all your models and cards if you want to. Quite a lot rivals decks were about to rotate out anyway. We've all thrown away (lovingly shelved) a lot of cards over the years.
You seem bitter that we get stuff "for free." We need two copies of pretty much everything, so we have bought an awful lot of Underworlds over the years. We also have built a community and youtube channel that relies on the success of UW. We've spent hours playing the game and hours more recording and editing videos. Oh, and we've organised tournaments (usually at a loss) too. We don't do that because GW give us free boxes we do it because we love UW and have made some great friends through playing it.
This iteration of UW is different. Yes, it clearly has had some changes that are commercially focused but GW's primary function is to make money. Personally, I'd much rather have a simple game that people want to play (and meet up to play) than one that looks impenetrable to outsiders. If there is one thing GW know how to do it's maintain their player base. (Even if a vocal group of people on the internet think otherwise)
Am i thrilled by all the changes? No. Do I know how the game is going to play, yet? Also, No. Is there any point in moaning about it. No, for a third time. The changes are happening whether I want them to or not.
Maybe the new game will be crap and the players will drift away or maybe it will still play well and more people will come into the game. The changes should stop large FAQ lists that just confuse new entrants to the game. Unobtainable warbands like Lady Harrows won't suddenly become the flavour of the meta and lock out anybody who only joined the game in the last 4 years.
Luckily for you, Agents of Sigmar will be getting a copy of the game "for free" and you can watch our video and decide whether you want to continue or not. You won't have to spend any money if you don't want to, and one way or another you'll have been given a service at absolutely no cost to yourself.
@@AgentsofSigmar not bitter you get stuff for free at all, I look forward to you guys reviewing the products, if you go back and re-read I said you don’t place as much value on stuff you got for free, so the swathes of now useless cards and boards don’t really have the same financial impact, that’s what I was saying.
And I’ll be sure to hopefully get an honest review on how the new box plays, I may still pick it up to give it a fair go, but the changes I’ve seen so far, none of them appeal to me. I guess we’ll just see where it goes when it releases at the end of the month.
@NintendoSwitch-p2z All right, I'll let you off then 😀. Hopefully they'll be enough to keep you in the game.
I'm actually hopeful that the changes will mean that some warbands that never saw the light of day will actually see some play time. Even if it's not tournament legal.
I love the GSH but playing them was only an lesson in abject misery. Especially as the game evolved.
I hate the cards. Really, really hate them. Also the board change barely makes any sense at all. The worst thing for me though, is the removal of faction decks. I'm not optimistic, I'll probably try and get just the miniatures from now on. As someone who has every single product from the old versions of the game (except for a board pack, 1 terrain box and 3 rival decks) I see no reason to buy into this downgrade. There's no "collector" incentive and the art direction is utterly unappealing to me.
Kinda miffed. I’ve been playing since Shadespire. I have always loved the game…this just seems a bit harsh to the loyal game base. If I wanted to play Warcry, then I would’ve bought a starter! Thinking it might just be time to bow out. Sad, cause the pandemic is what killed this game. At least in the states.
I hated the whole half-hearted mirrors expansion
The rivals of mirrored city? it was unfortunately timed, there's always going to be that last thing that GW produce before things get updated and its a bit of a loss I guess... hopefully next time it wont be quite so fundamental a change
Super excited about this. And love that they finally updated that hideous old logo
Can’t say I thought the old one was hideous but the new one does have that new shine to it 😄
How can he stand there with a straight face and propose that pictures of miniatures are better than art?
Its cheaper, and faster to produce, we get it GW but dont insult us by presenting it as an "upgrade"....These new cards look like trash.
Neither of us said they were better calm down
@@AgentsofSigmar Not you guys, the GW staff in the promo. I know its just typical promotion speech but its so insultingly simpleminded how GW talks about their upcoming products
@@-Markus-ah yeah that’s fair, GW are always going to sell everything as a plus though. Consumerism and capitalism always win. They’re never going to say they’re doing something they perceive as worse
Why not just play chess or checkers? Simple rules. The whole world knows and plays it. Think of the player pool.
Also, just like british like their food - no flavor to the game!
Chess/checkers is a perfect next iteration of Underworlds!
Yay!
That's right. Don't like the sound of a game you have never played, so you slag off an entire culture.
Close the door on your way out.
👋
You know, assign some defense and attack values, and chess with WHU dice combat could be a pretty fun game.
Lazy stereotype is lazy. Try harder next time.