Newer RAM Dually Frame Breaks in half carrying camper! Why it happened!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
- #rv #towing #trucks
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I have to give credit to this channel for educating me on towing vs cargo capacity and overall towing safety. Since you cant trust that a truck or RV dealership will steer you in the right direction, you have to take on the responsibility yourself to ensure that you dont put yourself in danger.
Just like bending a steel coat hanger. Bend it back and forth, long enough and it will break.
@@anthonytruta2745 bending a coat hanger back and forth and causing the metal to fail is called cold working. That is not the same as fatigue. The video author is hypothesizing that this truck failure occurred due to fatigue.
the bottom lline is do your home work and don't over load your truck plus get the correct truck for your camper and just use command sense don't take your whole house on it.@@anthonytruta2745
Working on medium and heavy duty trucks for a couple decades has afforded me the opportunity to see 1st hand some truly catastrophic failures due to overload. Many truck owners wrongfully assume that since the vehicle didn't flip over from the weight placed on it, the vehicle isn't overloaded.
Last 2 trucks I have purchased (2019 F-250 and currently own a 2020 F-350 dually), the salesman had a Ford App on his phone-he scanned the vin # and was able to plug in info such as trailer max weight, pin/tongue weight, additional cargo weight. The App then showed exactly how much I was over/under the Payload, GVWR, GCVWR for the trucks I was looking at.
Can’t tell you how helpful this was…wish every dealer would do this and every salesman understood these concepts (my salesman was an RV owner). Also wish the App was available to the public.
That’s helpful for sure. Last dealer I was at, the guy couldn’t even tell me if the Ram 3500 I was looking at was HO or not, couldn’t tell me axle ratio, or any tow or payload numbers. But then wastes my time with the rundown of power steering, power windows, power locks like those features are a selling point on a modern vehicle. Lol.
So many vehicle salesmen are such asshats. Know your product. 🤦🏻♂️
GM started putting all that information on a door sticker in 2020. It is specific to each individual truck very handy when buying a truck.
All that info is clearly displayed on the sticker on the door jam. It is VIN specific for the vehicle it is attached to.
I went to a dealership to trade up to a 2500 from a 1500. I was assigned a female salesperson who had never sold a truck before and knew nothing about payload 😂
One additional item to note is the bar that runs under the frame that the forms the front attachment point for the camper. It is at least 2" box steel. It is always under tension and is at the exact point, between the bed and cab, where the frame will flex the most. It isolates the front half of the frame from the rear half and encourages deflection right where the frame bent. Both the white Ford you show and this Dodge bent where that brace contacts the frame. Something to consider.
That bar you talk about has not been used as a method of securing a truck camper in decades. This truck used Torklift frame mounted tie downs, which don’t have a bar under the truck belly.
Torklift and Happijac are the two main manufacturers of truck camper tow downs, neither have a bar that goes under the truck frame
@@deltabravo1257Thats right but it still attaches right in front of the spring mounts
I think another factor to consider in using a truck camper is the "center of gravity" (COG) location on the truck camper which is provided by the RV manufacturer which is a range that needs to be placed in front of the truck rear axle. Lots of campers are designed to go on longer bed trucks, so when placed in a shorter bed truck, the camper center of gravity is too far back over the axle. I suggest always check the campers COG to match up with your truck bed size. Thank you for your explanation & the addition of things off the back of the camper altering the campers COG.
As soon as I say that picture I thought of JD, this video was inevitable. Thank you JD for all your great content and focus on towing safety.
I don't own a truck, an RV or a camper, but I love watching your videos. I like the lifestyle that owning a "big truck" ...RV or camper can bring to anyone who owns one of these vehicles. Keep up the great work....love your channel and the content that you post. Hope you have a great day!
Ditto. Great channel
So are you a damper or outdoors person?
@OOICU812 damper? Is that someone who camps in the rain?
Ford came out with the super camper special for this very reason. They set the axle back further so it could carry the large campers with crazy overhang of the 60s and 70s. They also ran a super single tire in the rear. It was very wide. Press cool design. Unfortunately they discontinued them as the camper craze died out.
Those had a 140" wheelbase. Check out a 2004 F150 SuperCab with a wheelbase of 163". It's pretty silly looking!
Yep, that's the one. 140" WB. With the spare tire behind a door in the side of the bed. Pretty cool design. I've seen those f150s. In fact my neighbor has one for his landscaping buisness. Seems to work well for his needs.
@@luke8210 It's silly looking but I'd be happy to own one at the same time. I like silly stuff.😄 Perfect for landscaping. I did similar work in the past and could have used a 20 foot truck.
Yep buddy mine had one 460 6mph loaded or not. Was a brut!
Yes I once owned a 1968 Ford F250 Camper special it had an extended wheel base and 2 gas tanks no gas mileage but what a great truck
Camper sales people need to watch this video.
I have a 2020 Ford pickup and went looking for a camper. You be surprized what a salesmen will tell you about weight. Thank you
I worked in Auto collision my entire life, and have seen several truck frames that have cracked. Did not matter if they had a 5th wheel or camper, if the weight was not distributed properly, metal fatigue, begins. The frame will begin to flex where it should not, especially near rivets.
Wow sounds like trucks should be built at least a little bit stronger..
@@Network126 They could make a truck that so that the tires would always be the first thing to fail in an overloaded/abusive use situation but do you really want to pay for that, both upfront and at the fuel pump?
Seen the same thing, weakest link!
I learned way back in 1972 when I bought my first new pickup how to do the math with the numbers on the door jam lots of info can be calculated. Most sales people do (did) not understand it but simply use the max number that is published for the ideal config. It's really not that difficult & a skill every RV person should learn & know. I am amazed how many rigs I see regardless of a 1/2t to a 1-1/2 T dually that are overloaded. It's frightening.
Grossly overloaded. About 165 gallons of liquid (drinking water, gray water, black water, propane, etc.) equals about 1155 lbs. Plus, load up all of the gear needed for camping in both the camper and inside, and the owner is asking for trouble.
@@Itsa_Mea as well as the dynamic weight causing constant and prolonged flex to the frame.
The dry weight of the camper itself was close to maxing out the payload
@@billchesney8949 Yep. Exceed the GVWR and it doesn't matter where the weight is distributed. The OEM would have to delineate where the weight is distributed in order to void a warranty claim.
Why did it break? Hmmm cause it was a Ram! Just kidding
Very well explained. I have a 2001 dodge ram 3500. I got a hs 2902 palomino truck camper. I need to look at my frame then
Once again, a GREAT video, JD !!! As a retired criminal investigator I have to say you put together an exceptional case and it was totally logical and presented clearly using facts. As you well know, virtually all of the "credible" RVing channels, yours included, have hammered viewers about payload capacity and the misleading information given by either vehicle or RV dealerships for years. Well done - again - JD, and thank you for your time, efforts and expertise. THIS is why I subscribed to your channel. Keep up the great work.
I think your spot on, explaining the pivot point is critical to the failure, however one factor to consider is when the truck is at highway speeds there is a huge force of air pushing the campers weight past the pivot point of the rear axel, toward the rear of the truck. As the trucks speed increases, so does the force of air pushing the camper to the rear. I would not be surprised to hear that these failures occurred at highway speeds.
Great perspective. I've heard elsewhere that the guy had driven about 25,000 miles with that truck and camper combination -- then he was surprised that it broke after so much time. You just explained it. But, also, I would bet a lot that he was significantly over the rated payload capacity with a very rear-biased load.
He drove all over Mexico and south America down dirt roads and off-road lol and made it all the way back lol
Ha ha you had me intrigued for a second. When you said you were going to use your truck as an example, I thought you were going to throw 6,000pounds on the back of it. 😛
I did a lot of research and watched a lot of you tube videos explaining pickup cargo capacities. I ended up going with a gas dually 4x4 crew cab for a fiberglass truck camper (northern lite) with a dry weight of about 2400-2600 pounds. Add water, propane, people, dog, possessions, etc and I’m quite safe. People really pushed me towards a SRW but I didn’t feel, weight wise and handling wise it would be suitable. Safety first, so pay more for what you really need up front, or you will be paying a whole lot more later.😅
JD, your thoughts make complete sense to me. For years you continue to educate your viewers on towing & payload capacity, and truck owners/buyers need to pay attention to your sage guidance. So happy you picked up on this unfortunate incident as I saw it and wondered about it as well. Thanks JD!
Great information! So many people dont understand weight limits of the truck. As you stated at the start of the video so many people feel because they have a 3500 or larger dually that they have unlimited ability. I own a 2022 RAM 3500 SRW Mega Cab Limited Longhorn. My payload is 3841 pounds. That doesnt mean I run the max weight every time I head out with my 5th wheel. I am typically 500 to 600 pounds under that number. Always enjoy your videos and I agree with your tow vehicle suggestions when you review RVs. You can never have too much truck! LOL
I also think alot of it has to do with the way people are driving too. The trucks have a lot of power and the suspension gives some people the impression that they can drive faster and safer. That may be true but, only to a point. People don't think about the actual abuse that the tow vehicle is taking when hitting bumps, taking curves, or driving in windy conditions.
Don't get ford
Its America they dont bother to look
Don’t forget that wind weight (downforce), also applies to the end figure. If you’ve got a load that’s poking over the top of the truck cab, you’re gonna catch a lot of wind and it’ll act as a weight in the back.
Great informational video. That's exactly why I watch and enjoy watching your videos. I like the fact that you go over the real life scenarios, instead of sugar coating stuff so that people believe something that isn't factual. Until next time, Stay safe and keep on Trucking! 👍
I love this channel. It helped me understand that I was over wait with my 3/4 ton truck and had to sell and upgrade to a 1 ton. So glad I learned it than and not the hard way later.
I sold cars for nearly 20 years, the majority of that time at a CJDR dealership. We printed out the maximum capacities for every truck based on VIN number and were not only required to go over it with the buyer, but required to get their signature on it. If youre unsure about your truck, go into a dealer with your VIN and ask them to pull up the max capacities for YOUR VIN.
I think you’re right because that truck was probably overloaded by 1300#’s and I’ve seen 3/4 tons overloaded by double that… great explanation 👍🏾
Why isn't dodge doing a recall on the frames
@@MikeSmith-ir7xnBecause if you don’t overload them they don’t break
Learned a lot when you went to the dealerships and talked about the cutaway or commercial van trucks vs a regular 3500/4500 truck. My dad used to service write for a repair shop for rvs and it is amazing the amount of overloaded campers, trailers going down the road. Thanks for the education.
This is the BEST video on this particular topic and the broken truck.
Many people hauling truck campers never actually weigh their truck or camper, or the combo.
A sad reality is that multiple truck manufacturers grossly understate the weight on the camper VIN tag / weight sticker. I know this because I have one of those truck campers. I am in a number of truck camper owner groups and I hear about these understated weights weekly.
Thank you. My wife and I appreciate the time you take to help educate us. We have learned a lot from watching your videos.
Glad to help
Very well said! It’s great to hear it from the engineering and physics side. Like every 5th wheel you show, when you get around to the hitch you call out “this is not meant for towing”. The knowledge you share helps educate us and keep us safer on the roads.
One thing I noticed in the case of both the Ram and the white Ford depicted, the truck campers had a large rear overhang and their owners added even MORE weight behind that overhang. The Ford had a bumper pull trailer and the Ram had a motorcycle on a receiver hitch carrier. Both truck owners would have been better off with a 5th wheel toy hauler.
Per typical, you are spot on! Too bad some people have to learn the hard way but the information is out there for those willing to do the research.
You are totally correct!! As a 21 year over the road class a CDL holder. I can tell you from first hand experience frames fatigue over time! One reason semi trucks have adjustable fifth wheels is to distribute the weight from front to rear. Always wondered why that wasn't incorporated into 5th wheels on smaller trucks. I have seen the same happen on semi trucks. Not to this extent but enough to be taken off the road!
After watching your videos for years I have to say this situation is probably the greatest example of an “I told you so” moment for you JD lol
Wow, thank you! Been researching an f350 and camper and this information has been invaluable.
I have learned so much from this channel. Not only for this truck camper scenario, but can you imagine overloading a towable and losing control going down a grade??? You really mean it when you say "At least a 3/4 rear wheel minimum" or "nothing but at least a dual rear wheel"... etc. I trust your input sir!
I had a 2015 F250 and discovered one day it was licensed for less than its actual weight. I see so many questionable configurations from half ton service trucks to inadequate tow vehicles pulling travel trailers so my point is the onus is on oneself to do due diligence about what you are driving and carrying. Having owned a forestry contracting business for over 30 years and think about how many of the service trucks really weren’t up to the task! Great information, great video as usual! Thanks
That's the best description of frame failure I've heard yet, thank you.
As a ram owner i never would of thought about this cause i do 5th wheels
GOT THE LESSON
That was a great learning moment! Thanks
JD, another fine example of great information on how weight works in trucks. I'd speculate that 90 to 95 percent of all salespeople at dealerships across the country have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to towing. They are in it for the commission check only. I've tried I don't know how many times to explain the exact principles you talked about to people for the better part of 30 years and in most cases it's like talking to a stop sign. You have provided two pictures in this video to provide proof of what you talk about. Hopefully, people will now begin to understand the principles of weight distribution with trucks.
Its cases like these, where I'm thankful I've seen TFL, Pickup and SUV Talk and your videos on payload and towing. So I know how to properly load a vehicle and not have it snap in half.
Pretty sure he had frame welded tiedowns and the frame failure occurred at that weld as the frame structure was compromised by it. Weight is always important of course, but in this case it was not a Ram failure, but a user failure in not having the properly installed tie-downs (bolt on is typically preferred) which led to this.
Nope, they were Torklift bolt on frame mounted tiedowns.
@@deltabravo1257 where was this shared? It is a topic of hot debate as I am sure you can imagine haha
My buddies folded in the same spot.
This is definitely a dodge ram issue.
I pull the same trailers with a single cab Ford a older 3/4 ton 7.3.
No frame issues, so why would it fold a 1 ton dually & not a older 3/4 ton ford?
12 year's of the same exact load on my truck.
Thank you for the great video I knew that the frame had to be doing something but didn’t realize that it was flexing like that. I’ve seen a few where they were twisting
Not sure if gm and dodge have these but ford publishes a trailer guide that covers both towing and camper canopies like that. They list what every combination of engine, body, bed, wheelbase, and axle gearing is rated for. Used that to determine my ‘16 F350 could handle the service body, tool, gear, and a trailer safely within Ford’s weight limit with a margin in case I needed to load it heavier. Was large enough I had to scale when on the road but that just proved the truck was under axle and gvw/gcvw maximums. And kept a copy of the guide in case DOT thought I was overloaded.
Another factor to consider is if the vehicle is exposed to salt (salt on icy roads or sea salt). Northern trucks and trucks from sea side communities are notorious from having salt rust problems. I saw a truck for sale at a great price, but discovered that it lots of rust and several significant size holes in the frame from past salt exposure.
I have learned so much about trucks from you over the years. Great video great knowledge.
Great job. Very well explained and you're correct about the fulcrum point.
Anyone remember in the past when people would ride around in the pick up box? You were typically warned not to hold on the the front wall of the box. Sometimes it banged into the back of the cab.
Excellent wealth of information you just taught us! Thank you a lot!
Your channel has helped me learn more about towing safely and influenced my truck buying. I stepped up from a 1500 Silverado to 2500HD cause I needed the payload vs towing capacity. I was eagerly waiting for your explanation on this. Great video.
I like the way you explained it .
Thank you again!!
One thing I don't think you mentioned, he actually had two bikes hanging off the back as well. I'm not positive, but I think they might've been eBikes, so probably a couple hundred pounds. I'm surprised he wasn't doing wheelies down the highway.
Gonna definitely have and Impact on the insanely BIG Bed camper market
The overhung load on that thing was insane
Thanks for the Education i would never have thought about this issue with this HD trucks, i have seen those pictures of broken frames and the heavy bed camper but have just glanced over as i scroll. I was doing some homework / research on these nice campers and started seeing these videos of broken frames again and saw your video and it gave me a big eye opener on these problems so i guess from here the new homework would is what can be done about reinforcing frames or maybe a lighter bed camper. Thanks for Sharing...
Thanks so much. You really taught me a lot about how payloads work and about salesmen hype.
I bought a brand new 1989 C30 extra cab Silverado Dually, camper package, overload springs, dual batts, 454. 373rear end. I then bought an 1990 Lance 580 extended cab, Slide in Camper that weighed 3,000lbs +
I put 150,000 miles on that truck with minimum repairs needed.
Wow! That could have been me. I wanted to travel around the country and had considered a similar setup as the DRW & camper combination, going to BLM and NF camping spots, etc.
I read and watched channels, like BTBRV, to learn as much as I could before buying. But wanting more, I was going to get a fifth wheel, a Luxe toy hauler, and even that choice could have given me trouble, as you are well aware, JD, because it's a heavier unit.
I didn't want to get an HDT or a Freightliner M2 to haul a fifth wheel, so now I have to carefully reconsider my options.
Thanks for covering this story, JD!
When I first saw that Ram I figured that it was a result of constant stress on the frame thank you for going in to detail so many people need to know a d understand to keep this from happening
Good desciption of a fatigue failure JD! At a lower load level the number cycles can be almost unlimited but close to yield the number drops precipitously. Especially if the frame capacity was reduced by drilling holes for the tie-downs. If the center of gravity was a bit behind the axle/pivot point the static condition is an upward load so each bump is a load reversal which is worse than a downward load that changes in intensity.
I saw the original post in the Facebook truck camper group where the owner posted this broken truck.
All that’s been said so far is the truck broke and that RAM won’t warranty it because it was overloaded. Yes, it was grossly overloaded. The worst part is, the owner has NEVER weighed the truck or camper. The owners have never came back to show photos of the crack. The owners went into “cricket mode” and have gone silent after the article was published.
Thank You For Your Well Thought Out Perspective 👍
Great explanation! I feel for the dude because that’s an expensive repair, if not totaled.
Estimate was $17,000 I believe.
Is that $17,00 include a new bed?
Good video this also directly points out that adding springs are airbags does not put any weight to the front of the vehicle it just makes the rear level while you overload it.
We bought our travel trailer based on one of your reviews. I learned lot about towing and weight capacity from this channel . My superduty I bought because of what I learned from this channel. Every time i watch a video here my wife ask how much will it cost us lol
Your reply could be " Your safety/comfort is worth it" 🤭
Good Video. Along with not having looked at the payload capacity on the yellow sticker on the door, the owner never bothered to pay the $12 and drive it across a CAT scale to see what it weighed with the camper on it. Clearly the owner never did due diligence. Several companies make special beds/bodies for cab/chassis designed to carry a large slide on camper and provide storage compartments. They use F550 and 5500 C/C for doing this.
Great video very good explanation of the issue
Great video. Thank you.
I think your explanation of the frame failure is correct. I am a retired commercial driver, and these loading and axle weight distribution concerns are issues we had to often deal with.
Excellent information. Well presented and explained. Appreciate you making this and other videos.
People never cease to amaze me. Where we are wintering in South Central Florida there’s literally someone in our campground pulling a 40 foot DRV with an F250. My wife spotted it first and I didn’t believe her until I saw it for myself. 😳😳
Yup. I know someone who believes his truck can bumper pull 15k because the hitch sticker is 15k. But the mfg towing spec sheet has his setup at max 12.4K. I have the same truck, one model year earlier, and my payload is higher than his because of a few less options. I have the same max limit. Why does he believe his is at 15k? The dealership salesman said so…..
Thank you for the info! Very smart ! God bless you!
When I first saw that you were the first person I thought of and clearly he was way over his payload capacity. Your channel has been so hopefully in learning about trucks as someone who got my experience towing construction trailers or military vehicles where we never really worried about it
The weight in the rear (especially accelerating) causes a slight Lift off in the front putting the weight of Engine, Axle & Cab on that Frame causing a Toothpick snap effect..!
Thank you for this information. I have been watching the videos while considering a 2008 Chevrolet dually diesel for a fifth wheel we are buying. However, in looking up the ratings, I see that the maximum for this year and truck model is 16,000 lbs. I don't understand how trucks increased their capacities so much in recent years. This truck also had a tuner on it for increased HP and torque. But since the fully loaded capacity of our fifth wheel is 18,000 lbs, I decided to pass and wait until I can find a truck with a greater capacity.
Even though I saw some 3/4 tons with supposedly high capacity, after subscribing to this channel, I think our soon to be owned 43', 15,000 lb empty fifth wheel will be towed by a dually with a diesel.
Excellent analysis. I entirely concur.
Very interesting. Thanks for posting this. Have a nice day now.
Great no BS video!
It’s also about weight distribution. It’s a very rear heavy camper, especially with that E bike on the back as well as all the gear stacked on top which cantilevered it over the axle. That likely helped accelerate the failure.
Yeah it seems the larger the camper the more stuff people are going to put in it adding weight
Thank you so much for your video, I learned so much.
Also RAM's towing guide has an option to check your payload by VIN and also has a towing guide which shows the baseline payload by each package, cab, engine, SRW/DRW and 4wd/2wd
Good insight, Thank You
You nailed it. Well done.
Great video. Very honest and not brand specific. Yes. It can happen to any brand.
Great explanation.
Leverage is a powerful thing.
I put 4 pallets of tile on my flatbed ram 3500 cab-chassis and it felt the best it ever had Each pallet weighed 2500lbs
This is why I say you should not go over 80% of your max payload for anything in or on your truck. It will break eventually if you keep overloading it. Even if it is just under or at the max weight, things will break and wear out faster.
When I bought my F550. I ordered it with the 24,000-pound GVW package. Because it was going to be a service truck with a 6,000- pound crain. I have been scaled by the DOT at 18,500- pounds at normal load. Ford used to sell pickups with a camper special package, which included a reinforced frame.
Knew all the points mentioned in the video. But still good presentation. many more truck owners should watch this!
Excellent information, very helpful !
JD, your channel should be required watching for ANYONE wanting to haul something in their truck, no BS explanations of what could happen with overloading or loading incorrectly. Keep up the good work sir!
As an aside, you sound great but how is your own recovery going as a whole?
I’m doing better. We came down in a harsh flu though so I’ve been trying to recover from that. Thanks for asking in my friend
Thats why i LOVED my '76 ford f-100, boxing frame.
I watched a late seventies F450 Ford wreaker buckle the frame trying to lift a vehicle out of a stream. I would assume the newer more modern wreakers have some sort of torque limiting system to protect the frame. Good video and a great explanation of this potentially deadly situation.
The load center of mass (Camper + Hitch) was likely behind the rear axle because the frame bent upward but the primary issue was metal fatigue as mentioned in the video by JD.
Honestly the camper with the driver was beyond the safe capability of the truck. Not to mention everything else that guy was hauling.
Especially with what looked like a motorcycle attached to the back of it. That motorcycle had a huge amount of leverage on that frame because its mass was way behind the rear axle.
@@jwdeff It's a lot of weight where you least want it. I tried a motorcycle hitch carrier on my van and disliked the way it affected the handling and departure angles so much that I switched to a small motorcycle trailer instead.
Hey that's very well explained. I learned something kinda. Surely we all understand about metal fatigue but you made it simple to understand good job I say.
Very informative video. Thanks for sharing. God bless you and yours.
Great video and Great content 👍. Very educational.
Good work 👍
As a ram senior master engineer this guy nailed the video in ever aspect. 😂
Great explanation
Great insight!
I believe you are spot on. well said.
More doors = less cargo/towing capacity is what I tell my kids. When son #1 modified his truck, I made him go to a weight station to see how much capacity he lost.
Thanks for a common sense description of how that frame could fail.