They would probably have heard it before - I’m pretty sure Indy’s minimal effect on the plot was a popular discussion point among movie nerds long before TBBT popularized it. That said, it’s still a funny bit on the show. Edit: there’s also the fact that the plot hole is only a problem from the standpoint of Indy vs the Nazis. Thematically, it’s really about Indy’s passion for history and its preservation vs the Nazis wanting to exploit it. He (and Marion by extension) survive because of this. He doesnt save the world but he saves the girl he got caught up in things through his involvment. When he says “close your eyes, Marion” is the point he has an impact on the outcome of events… …wow, I just looked up this video because I wanted to see the clip… Kids, don’t come to the youtube comments shortly after taking your ADD medication or you may find yourself posting mini-essays nobody asked for…
They would have known she was wrong. Did Indy hadn’t taken the Ark to the warehouse the Nazis may have sent more soldiers to recover it and they may not have opened it. Also Indy was needed so he could be followed to Nepal.
@@jackmclaughlin9602 Except the only reason Indy was going to Nepal was because US Intelligence intercepted a Nazi communique saying they were looking for Abner Ravenwood to get the headpiece. So they probably would have found Marion in Nepal eventually. Indy just accelerated it.
Maybe I'm the only one, but I feel that a movie where the main character ends up having nearly no impact on the plot in itself is pretty bloody amazing.
Well as they said in the end, Indy is the reason that the Ark made it to the United States, but what's funny is the fact that Indy's initial intent to sought after it was unable to be fulfilled since he was unable to research it as originally planned.
@Matt S The Joker's scheme with the ferries was that if neither ship blew up the other by midnight, he would blow them both up; right before Batman snares the Joker, the Joker complains, "Can't rely on anyone these days. You gotta do everything yourself, don't we?" takes out another detonator, and says, "That's okay. I came prepared." He did rig the ferries to be remotely detonated, and he was going to blow up the ferries if Batman hadn't stopped him. The second part of your comment is true, but Batman does ultimately have an effect on the story.
@Matt S No, he said at the very beginning of his challenge to the people on the ferries that he would blow both ferries up if neither blew the other up by midnight, and his pulling out the detonator was just his upholding that promise. He thought that he had Batman overpowered. Batman was held down by a rail on the scaffold, and the Joker was in position to kill him if he tried anything. The Joker just wasn't expecting the launchable gauntlet blades. The grenade in the banker's mouth was just a prank. The grenades in his jacket during the mob meeting were real. He wasn't planning on pulling the pins, of course, but it would've have been much of a promise of mutually-assured destruction if they were fake-as in, if the mobsters actually tried to attack him or something, he would've blown himself up.
My issue ( and a minor one at that since I LOVE this movie) has always been this: the dig for the ark occurred in Egypt when it was a colony of Great Britain, and one of the most important colonies because of the Suez Canal. I have a very hard time believing the British would have let an entire German Army run around in Egypt with no oversight by British authorities only a few years before the start of World War II.
The history is rather complex, but by the early 1920's Britain had recognised Egypt as an independent state. The British still had troops stationed in Egypt up to 1936. But a treaty was signed that required the removal of all British troops, with the exception of those at the Suez Canal.
Even though Indy didn't take it to the museum to be studied, he had to turn it in for proper filing because the ark's power is too dangerous to open again. This goes to show that Indy does play a huge role, if he didn't witness the ark's power more people would've died if they opened it and wasn't stored in a safe place again.
But maybe the ark could have been opened at a big Nazi rally where high ranking officials and SS, and gestapo would have had their heads melted off and saving millions of lives.
I think what a lot of people are missing is that the ark was the classic McGuffin in the proper old fashioned sense of the word in that the protagonists believe something's important that doesn't turn out to be (confused with the modern day use of McGuffin to mean any object the protagonist is after) This was about Indiana's journey, he starts off lusting after the ark for personal gain but gradually through the course of the film realises that it's something dangerous that must be protected and cherished hence he closes his eyes at the films conclusion and has become the arks protector. This was his journey, who had the ark and the power struggle between the two forces of good and bad are what the film is about not who ended up with the object itself.
George Lucas has stated that the MacGuffin of a story should matter intensely to the audience and has personally said he defines the Ark has being extremely important to the movie as a MacGuffin.
Toht followed Indy to Marion who had the medallion. Even if they found Marion without Indy, they’d have killed her to get it. Either there at her bar in Nepal or having taken her hostage to the island and she’d not have known about closing her eyes when the ark was opened and her head would’ve melted. Also, the ark would’ve just sat on that island for all time. The gripe at the end about “Indy not even being able to get it to a museum to study” is irrelevant because the bureaucrats were the ones who obstructed that. Game, set, match... point... Scott... game over... end of game.
These so-called "geniuses" forget one thing. Indy and Marion survive the ritual. This allows the allies to recover the Ark instead of the Nazis. Indy's role is critical.
Blue Whovian How does this ruin the movie? The movie is about thrills and drama and excitement, not simply how a story turns out. Before I saw this, I already thought it was neat that the events of the movie did not affect history. We start out knowing the Nazis don't get the ark, start World War II, and eventually get defeated in World War II but it's irrelevant because the tone of the film and the peril makes us fear the outcome of the ark being acquired and used in the Biblical fashion. Indiana Jones doesn't have to change anything. There are no plotholes. We as an audience are thoroughly entertained.
Right. The Nazis would've brought it back to Berlin and had a grand opening at a Nazi rally with all the leaders present...oops. Meh, I guess it's also good to have it locked away where none will open it. Besides those geniuses _do_ bring up that fact and summarily realize it's still a shortcoming.
Do you guys seriously think that Spielberg and Lucas were so damn fools that they didn't notice this even though they are two great filmmakers? They did this intentionally! They wanted to show that Indy realises that there is power beyond himself and he is supposed to surender to it, and an object is not more important than the people he loves!!!
......AWWWWW! Although I'm gonna say that Indy made it so difficult for them to get the ark that they decided then to go to the island to test it, if Indy hadn't made it so difficult to get, they probably would've brought it to the furher straight out.....which may have been a better ending since it wouldve killed more nazis :/
In Raiders of the Lost Ark...the bad guys were going to send the Ark to Berlin. It was on a plane and Indy fucked it up for them (which led to other adventures, ending up on an island). Let's say it had gone to Berlin...and it was opened...how many Nazis would it have killed? It only kills the people who are looking at it, correct (thus Indy going 'don't look at it' and then the Ark covers itself up after its' done). What if it was just opened in a small room for a few guys to see it/witness it? It'd only kill the people who saw it...so what about people outside of the room? The people on the outside of that would come in to the room after the Ark closed itself, figured out what happened ("hey, everyone disappeared, I bet we can't be in the same room as that thing")...then used the Ark as a weapon, drop it into some American Cities/areas of business, get a few 'Suicidal Nazis' to 'open it for them' at each place, and cause American Terrorism. But because of Indy? His screwed them up, which led to (in a way, a closed environment where no outside parties could 'walk in' and check to see what has happened) an island where all the nazis become dead, and only Indy and Marion survived. Thus? The two lone survivors take it to the US and is hidden forever. There you go.
+ramboraph4life That's a good assumption, but I doubt the people who would come later after the Ark closes itself again would guess that was the Ark the responsible for the deaths. To me a more plausible outcome would be something like a Loop: The Ark is open, people die, then closes itself again (this repeated a number of times) until the Nazis ending up without leadership and with a dismantled army.
Without Indy the nazis would have gotten the plane to Berlin and opened the ark directly in front of Hitler, so... Indy saved his life...now the movie is ruined even more, Indy is a bad guy.
Well, this goes right in step with when they tried to figure out the right grammar for the Back to the Future timeline. And the "Hot tub time machine", whatever that was.
Amy's point was actually correct, from a scientists point of view. Indy's journey is, unfortunately, a religious awakening. He says he doesn't believe in magic, "a lot of superstitious nonsense." By the end, Indy tells Marion to close her eyes because it's an act of pure faith; it's a man who didn't believe in "superstitious hocus-pocus" recognizing he's in the presence of something greater. This is why Amy and the guys wouldn't have seen what it was really about.
I've been reading the comments below and it occurred to me that people seemed to have forgotten that Belloq said that he wanted to do the ritual first, convincing the German Officer to check what is inside in order to make sure that when he presented it to Hitler, his mission would've been a success. Thus, them going to the island and dying anyway. Another argument was also with the Ark eventually going to the warehouse. If Indy wasn't in the island, then technically, The Ark would've killed the Nazi's and that would've been the end of it. The Ark would be considered lost again and no one else would know where it would be because everyone essentially died. The only valid argument was how the Nazi found Marion at the bar. Although without Indy, they would've looked for Marion anyway since she is the next of kin to her dead father which Indiana Jones himself said was the expert on the lost city where they found the Ark. At the end of it all, I do think that the Nazi would've taken a bit longer to get the Ark but they would've been able to accomplish it without Indiana Jones. However, the movie is still excellent and it wouldn't be fun without him.
Amy is wrong. The nazis would have found the ark and would have just shipped it straight to Berlin. Without a second thought. It was because of Indiana Jones that the nazis decided to see if the ark was worth it to ensure that all their work was worth it
How is that worse? Imagine that they bring it back to Berlin and have it in front of a massive Nazi rally with all the top officials and Nazi brass present for the grand opening.
gaurav arora Unlikely how do you ship a 2000 year old relic off an island when you don't know where the island is? Or infact that it is there? It's the sandstorm theory of the Ark disappearing again.
As stated on other comments, because of Indy's knowledge of where Marion was and that she had the artifact, the Nazi's followed him on the plane. While the movie doesn't show it, the earlier scripts do show that Indiana had knowledge the Nazi's didn't have so they followed him. If Indiana wasn't involved with the movie, the Nazi's would have never found the medallion and never found the Ark.
Yep, and the fact that Sheldon (with an iedetic memory and watched the movie 36 times) didn't recall the fact that Indiana was followed to the madallion by the Nazis. That is the real hole is in the Big Bang Theory's take that Indiana Jones had no role in the movie's plot. I will surrender that in time, if the Nazis kept digging up the entire area they may have found the Ark without Indiana Jones. But otherwise, Indiana Jones' role plays a key factor in the story.
Yeah but they knew about Marion’s father so it is safe to assume they also knew about his daughter. I admit it would have taken them a little longer, but they would have eventually found her, obtaining the medallion and find the ark.
@@MrJramold -- Well, there's an easy answer for why Sheldon didn't realize that's there's actually no plot hole in Raiders. The writers are unfunny hacks that don't know geek stuff.
The part about the Nazis opening the ark is troubling. Was that their plan from the get go or was it a last minute plan made by Belloq? I feel it was last minute cause of how Indy managed to get the ark so he felt frustrated and irrationally decided to open it to see if it was worth all the hassle
In real life, the two government agents would just simply advised Indy to procure the Medallion from Marion to hinder the Nazis from locating the true location of the Ark. After which, Indy would just return stateside and placed the Medallion into the jurisdiction of Marcus Brody to be displayed in a museum lol
If it wasn't for Indy, the Nazis would have killed Marion and spared her all the pain and suffering that Lucas and Spielberg inflicted on the universe by launching 'Kingdom of the Crystal Skull'.
Toht had to follow Indy to find Marion so without Indiana Jones the Nazi's never get the headpiece to the staff and never find the well of souls. I hope that saves the movie for you lol
@@Thatguy-zf7hf actually without indy they would have had the medallion in the first place thus helping them dig in the right place and in turn would have eventually found the ark, taken it to Berlin, opened it in front of hitler, killing him and the nazis. Indy saved hitlers life......
The truth however, is the fact that Amy is wrong. In Raiders lost Ark, the Gestapo agent is seen on the plane behind Indiana Jones following him as he goes to see Marion.
Actually, the Nazis had to follow Indy to Nepal to find the headpiece, the ark was headed for Berlin until Indy blew up the plane and stole the truck (though that may have meant Hitler would have been killed by the Ark) and if there was no one there to have survived the ritual, more Nazis would have come to investigate as to why they had not heard back so the Ark would still have been in Nazi hands and would probably have been destroyed if it was open just long enough to find it contained nothing but sand. My educational experience tops out at a high school diploma and I remembered that the Nazis had to follow Indy to Nepal the second Amy said Indy serves no purpose while four "geniuses" never came to that conclusion.
I was going to respond in a similar manor until I came across your statement. The creepy nazi with glasses was on the plane with Indy some how and followed him to Marion, ultimately the madallion. So that blows her Amy's reasoning of "they (the Nazis) would have found the ark" without Indy out of the water cause they were digging in wrong place. BUT if she would have said "they eventually would have found the Ark, if they dug up the entire area", then maybe her argument stands.
@MrJramold the nazis knew that Marion had the medallion they just didn't know where. If indi weren't in the film they would have went after her father to get to her, get the medallion, find the ark, open it then die
Ok… I am watching Raiders now, and I found something. Indy went to Nepal, he was followed by the Nazis, if he didn’t go to Nepal for Marion, the Nazis wouldn’t have followed him, then they would not have got the headpiece of the Staff, so even though technically it’s Indy’s fault it the Nazis got the Ark, he was instrumental on getting the Ark to safe storage, which considering the power of the Ark is a better place than a museum
I thought it was weird about this episode that Sheldon didn't find the glaring problem in Pride and Prejudice. When someone pointed it out to me, it totally ruined it for me. I have no idea if anyone in these comments will care since everyone seems to be arguing about Raiders, but here goes. Elizabeth Bennett goes on about how money/security doesn't motivate her for marriage, but she "falls in love" with Darcy only after she sees how big his house is. Sure you can rationalize it with finding out she'd been deceived by Wickham, finding out Darcy is both a good friend and brother and she wants him more after he seems more out of her league when Lydia's scandal rocks the famiy. But really, she hated him because of his pride, and then she was embarrassed that she misjudged him after reading his letter, and then she saw his house and loved him. Of course, it's part of a fantasy that you fall in desperate mutual love with a man who also happens to be so rich you never have to worry about money again, but still. (Fifty Shades, anyone?) It sure makes Elizabeth's character fickle, hypocritical, and vain. I'm sure if Sheldon had pointed that out, Amy would have not felt that book was quite so romantic anymore.
I've not read the novel, but have read suggestions that Jane Austen in that book was mocking early 19th century societal pretensions that wealthy people always 'married for love' when as often as not they married at least as much for money. A lot of the supposed gentry were mildly impoverished due to the expense of keeping up such grand houses and so on. The mother of Winston Churchill, Lady Randolph, was herself an American money bride as her father was very wealthy.
I always though perfection was overrated in terms of art and entertainment. Just because a movie has some imperfections does not always mean that it is a bad movie. I can think up a lot of mistakes in The Raiders of the Lost Ark, but that does not mean that I dislike it, or that it ruins my likeness of the film.
NerdyMatt It depends on what the mistakes are. When I saw it in the theater in '81, it was a letdown to me that Indy didn't defeat the bad guys himself, as you'd expect. I still enjoyed it (not enough to have ever watched it again) but that violation of the expectations of the genre stuck out like a sore thumb for me.
+Booker Jones You got a very good point, I though the same way too, which is one of the reasons why I liked The Last Crusade better. I just think that it's crazy how people are trying to prove this show wrong, like they don't want their beloved movie ruined.
Agreed. Except this is not a mistake. Only Indy knew where to find Marion, who had the headpiece. Remember Toht on the plane, behind the Life Magazine, following Indy to Nepal? Without Indy, the Nazi's would not have had the headpiece, and likely would not have found the Ark. Indy was 100% necessary, and Blossom's comment on the film is shit. As is TBBT.
Yeah, even some of my favorite movies have a few imperfections of their own. It really does depend on what the imperfections are. For instance, the reason I find Frozen to be bad is because it has several story problems, several of them being pretty big ones. (If Hans was evil all along, why did he give that friendly smile when he was alone? Why did Elsa sing about not being afraid anymore and be all confident and then go back to being scared again? How did Olaf know Anna was locked I that room? Why erase Anna's memories of Elsa having ice powers when she was fine with them before? etc. etc.)
It was necessary for Indy to shoot the Intimidating Swordsman, upon which adventure becomes legendary adventure. Not to mention bringing back Fedoras and whips.
They wouldn't have had the headpiece because Toht had to follow Indy to find Marion. Also his job was to get the Ark and he did it so. I get what they're saying but it's not true
Taking it to a museum where it would not be as protected, rather than a government facility, where it would be the most protected, would be a pretty bad idea considering the power of the box.
what's funny to me is that there seem to be quite a few who are actually discussion that thesis in a serious manner. because it really doesn't matter. like it absolutely doesn't matter how much relevance Indiana Jones has to the "plot" because it's an adventure movie, it's supposed to be about the journey and the "ride".
1. The fact that Indy pretty much saved Marion from the Nazis and the latter were digging in the wrong place because of Toht's burnt hand should be indicative enough that Indy DOES have some impact on the plot. 2. Indy's impact on the plot matters MUCH less than his character arc. It's all about character. 3. People from my generation are so nitpicky (is that even a real world) and forget how to enjoy the spectacle of classic films.
While Amy's point is technically correct, the argument could be made that Indy's purpose in the film was never to stop the Nazis getting the ark. His role was to rescue Marion Ravenwood, who would have almost certainly been killed without him.
How about the ending to Temple of Doom? Edit: He is essential as the last stones where in the cave and by the time of children's freedom (or the minecraft scenes) the stones where in an excavated site, in the wall face. The Last Crusade (favorite film) . . . You cant cross the shield with the Grail or the power for everlasting life will disappear and the temple implodes, but the trade off is that you can still use it to heal wounds and cure sickness. Either way everyone in that cave would have died from the shines without Indians aid.
Still not entirely clear on where Indy hid while on the submarine.If it submerges,he dies.If it stays on the surface,the crew will be wandering the deck.
The Germans found the Medallion because they were following Indy. They probably never would have found it unless that happened. Indy definitely played a role.
Well, Amy is right about "Raiders." But she can't take "Temple of Doom" away from us. Indy saves the children, gets the stone back to the village, defeats Mola Ram in a climactic showdown, and saves the day. As Raj said: "Like a hero!" :)
eternalhalloween1 she isn’t right. The Nazis we’re digging in the wrong place as Indy lead the nazis to the medallion. Without Indy, the nazis couldn’t have found the ark as they had no clue about the true medallion. And if they did, it was going to be flown to Berlin, but Marion blew the plane up whilst Indy was fighting the Big Nazi Guy. If Indy wasn’t in it then the ark would never have been found, and on the chance it was, it would’ve been sent to Berlin to be opened...
@@alfie3727 -- You're partly right. But Indy's importance goes earlier than that. Only Indy knew where to find Marion, who had the headpiece. Remember Toht on the plane, behind the Life Magazine, following Indy to Nepal? Without Indy, the Nazi's would not have had the headpiece at all, let alone one side of it, and likely would not have found the Ark. Indy was 100% necessary, and Blossom's comment on the film is shit. As is TBBT.
You can’t say that the Nazis would’ve found the arc. Maybe eventually they would have after digging up that entire desert but that’s not a guarantee that they would’ve found it.
Indy is the one that discovered the Well of Souls though and the Nazis wouldn't have been able to obtain the arc without him, the Nazis even stated to Belloq during the dig that Hitler was getting impatient and they were getting ready to call everything off.
But that was Leonard's point. Without Indy preventing them from getting the actual medallion in Nepal they would have had both sides from the start and dug in the correct location. Indy and his crew _did_ dig in the correct location but got caught and thus ended up leading the Nazis to the ark anyways. In other words, Indy cancelled out his action which would have foiled the Nazis by doing another action which put them back on track.
@@arkwill14 -- No, you're completely wrong. If it weren't for Indy, the Nazis would NOT have had the headpiece. They had no idea where to find it. When they showed up in Marion's bar, they only did because they followed Indy all the way from America to find her. No Indy, no headpiece. No headpiece, and the Nazis would have still had no idea where to look.
I watched Raiders for the first time just now, and came here to see if Amy was really correct. Turns out she is, for the most part. But the movie's still good
Amy was wrong. How would the Nazis have found Marion's bar in Nepal without following Indy on the plane? (Toht) No chance. Also the Ark was taken back to Washington and out harm's way because of Indy (with help from Marion and Katenga)
But the Nazis never would have found the Ark at all if it weren't for Indy. Or at least, there's no indication they would have. Only Indy knew where Marion was, who had the headpiece with the crystal. No Indy, no headpiece, no direction to the Well of Souls where the Ark was. Blossom was wrong.
@trekkiejunk6322 actually the nazis knew everything that indi knew, the only reason they didn't have the medallion sooner was because of indi, without indi the nazis would have found the ark, opened it then died.
You're both wrong. The Nazis (nor American Intelligence) could even find Abner Ravenwood. This is stated in the film. Only Indy knew how to get to his daughter, who had the medallion. So, the Nazis just followed Indy across the globe to Nepal. Without Indy, the Nazis would likely have never found Marion and the medallion. So, how would the Nazis have killed Marion without Indy?
While they are valid points, there's one thing that gets left out and people overlook The army intelligence did not task Indy in preventing the Nazis from digging up the ark, he was tasked to get it before they did and swipe it before they had a chance. Marcus says it himself in industry house. That to me settles this silly argument
Man this is pretty easy. The Nazis had no idea where Abner Ravenwood was. Even the US army intelligence agents who spoke with Indy said that they couldn’t find him. The Nazis knew Abner had the medallion most likely so they sent Toht to tail Indy, since he was associated with Abner. So if it wasn’t for Indy, the Nazis would’ve never found the Medallion, which means that they couldn’t locate the Ark. It’s that simple!
I never understood this. A story talks about the transformation of the protagonist. Indy is shown as a skeptic at the beginning of the movie and after the adventure, at the end of the movie, realizes there are powers bigger than simple artifacts or humanity itself. He changes thanks to the adventure and story. The audience lives that change too. Indy's relevance in saving the world from the nazis has nothing to do with the story. He thought he was there to save the world but in reality he was there to presence the unknown. That's why the last movie has nothing to do with Indy: he is again a skeptic after having lived all those mystical experiences. Fan fiction. And Amy is wrong, this is not a story problem. It could just shake the perspective that Indy was a hero who saved the day, but that's not the point of his adventure. It was a mystical transformation.
This is so stupid... So, if Indie were out of the equation, the ark would be there to be opened and will kill over and over and over again? I think is really important that he will be there 🤷♂
NO! Indiana met with Army Intelligence agents in the second scene of the movie after his class finished. THE US GOVERNMENT put their trust in Indy and the first thing he knew was to get his ass to Nepal ASAP to pay off Marion for the medallion ($3000 in 1936) before the Gestapo got to it. The Gestapo knew it, why do think the bad guy was on the plane reading the magazine when Indy boarded the plane flying out of San Francisco? What? The shootout at Marion's bar in Nepal was nothing with the Gestapo guy picking up the scalding hot medallion and burning it into his hand? That set up the WHOLE movie!
Then wouldn't the Ark be stuck on an island? For me, the glaring problem is the arks powers of choice. I would have been just fine if nothing happened or people touching the ark not appointed by GOD getting hit by random lightening strikes or a random lion mauling a person.
Have to disagree with Amy. Although I do see her point. Consider this. The Nazis already had their dig going on in Tanis. Or at least a city they belived to be Tanis. But. They were not finding the Ark, and they were running out of time to show results. befor they either had to move on, or get shut down. They needed an expert on Tanis, and that would be Ravenwood. They didn't know where to find him. but knew Jones might. So they used their guys in the US State Department to draw Jones in to find Ravenwood. The SS agent who intarigated Marian, only showed up there, because he was following Jones. Otherwise, he would never have known to go to Tibet or Marians bar. And would not have found the amulet. So, Jones is acting as an ex machina. Driving the plot out of the corner the Nazis painted themselves into.
Dizzy Blu DemonEyeX In fact in that island that the nazis died that were probably some other nazis (supposing that the nazis were rational and left at least 10 guards to take care of the island) without indy the nazis would have found the ark and a bunch of dead nazis then they'd have taken the ark to Berlim and GG nazis
No if indy wasn't in the story, the whole movie would have been about a bunch of prick nazis digging in the desert, getting frustrated, never finding it, and moving on to do more damage in the world, instead of Indy finding it, them stealing it, and getting their just deserts by God and a bunch of angels by opening it. There, I saved Raiders of the Lost Ark!!!
@@Pariteasto -- "Would have bought the medal of whatever it was?" I have a feeling you never saw the film. Anyway, no they wouldn't have. Watch the film again. The Nazis had no idea where to find the medallion (or the Ravenwoods), and even US Intelligence had been looking for the Ravenwoods and couldn't find them. And the Nazis were getting close to giving up. This is all stated in the film. Heck, the Nazis weren't even searching in Nepal, where she lived. There's no reason to think the Nazis would have found her without following Indy across the globe, right to her doorstep.
This was a good episode of the series. I think it was shitty Amy pointed out to Sheldon that Indiana Jones was irrelevant to the story. I saw Raiders in its entirety one time and I picked up on that. Marion had more relevance to the outcome of the story than Indy did. I guess Sheldon just loved the movie so much he didn't notice. I think Indy was more on a spiritual journey. He wasn't trying to lead the Nazis to the ark.
Except you're wrong. Only Indy knew where to find Marion, who had the headpiece. Remember Toht on the plane, behind the Life Magazine, following Indy to Nepal? Without Indy, the Nazi's would not have had the headpiece, and likely would not have found the Ark. Indy was 100% necessary, and Blossom's comment on the film is shit. As is TBBT.
The Nazis did not know where the medallion was until they followed Indy to Marion's bar. So, without Indy they would still be looking for it and not looked in the right place.
But this isn't a character driven story It's a character centric story Character doesn't drive anything here in the plot Unless by story you're referring to indie's story, in which case it is character driven
How did Indy know the Nazis were going to go to an island, preform a ritual, and open it up? For all he knew they were taking it to Berlin to be studied and perhaps somehow exploited to the coming war effort. I don't think he knew when he took the job that opening the ark would melt/collapse a persons face, send lighting(?) through people or make them spontaneously combust! A better question is how did he survive that submarine ride? It had to submerge sooner or later!
Submarine ride is a BIG plot hole, but everything else can be answered. Indy didn't know the Nazis were on the island, he followed them to it. He didn't know that the ark would do what it did, but throughout the movie little hints were given to the audience and Indy that the ark wasn't meant to be toyed with, such as Marcus's warning in the beginning and Sallah's afterward. All he knew was not to mess with it.
+fiversrevenge They were they would have used that strange Aircraft to airlift it to Berlin directly, now Indy destroyed the Aircraft so they had to Think of something else.
I disagree with Amy. Dr. Jones's existence actually did change the outcome of the plot. Without Indiana, Nazi would have taken longer to find the ark. Since the war is on-going, who knows if Nazi's ark finding effort will be thwarted by their defeat in the hands of the allied forces. If so, somebody else besides the Nazi, would have found the ark, and those people would have died instead of the Nazi.
They probably would've never found it because the only reason they found Marion was by following Indiana Jones. So if they couldn't find her on their own then they couldn't get the headpiece and find the ark
Except it wasn't brilliant. Only Indy knew where to find Marion, who had the headpiece. Remember Toht on the plane, behind the Life Magazine, following Indy to Nepal? Without Indy, the Nazi's would not have had the headpiece, and likely would not have found the Ark. Indy was 100% necessary, and Blossom's comment on the film is shit. As is TBBT.
Contrary to what Amy said and what some others believe Indy was essential to the plot because the the Nazis needed to follow him to Nepal to get the headpiece also of Indy don’t help store the Ark in the warehouse the Nazis would have sent more soldiers who may have been successful in getting it.
But Indiana saved Marianne who had the amulet. The amulet was burned onto that man hand which gave the wrong location. Indiana pissed off Marianne. For someone as smart as Sheldon he didn’t put up much of a fight and he is a ‘smart’ man. There was no debate. If Beloq and Indiana didn’t have such a rivalry things wouldn’t be revealed… If things did end up the same there wouldn’t be a movie. If there was no Indiana, the ark would be stuck on that hill and not in a secret warehouse in the USA.
Ok, first off, her name is Marion, not Marianne. Beyond that, you're partly correct. The part you missed is that without Indy, the Nazis wouldn't have known where to find Marion, i.e. the headpiece to the staff. No Indy, no headpiece at all. No headpiece, no Ark.
This makes no sense. Amy ruins Raiders of the lost Ark by saying: Amy: "Indiana Jones plays no role in the outcome of the story. If he weren't in the film, it would turn out exactly the same." And it everyone thinks Amy is correct. But Howard provided two counterarguments that were dismissed as incorrect, but they were actually correct: Howard: "The Nazis were digging in the wrong place. The only reason they got the ark was because Indy found it first." Leonard: "Actually, they were only digging in the wrong place because Indy had the medallion. Without him, they would've had the medallion and dug in the right place." Howard: "If it wasn't for Indiana Jones, the ark would never have ended up at the warehouse." Leonard: "Although technically Indy was supposed to take the ark to a museum to be studied, he couldn't even get that done." So Leonard was saying Howard's arguments did not prove that Indy was a hero, and that is correct. However, Amy wasn't arguing that, she was arguing Indy had no impact on the story, but Leonard proved he clearly did have an impact on the story.
Ok, forget ALL of that, and understand how Blossom was wrong... In the film, US Intelligence had been looking for Marion's father, and their trail was dead. The Nazis were close to giving up, too. This was all stated in the film. BUT, only Indy knew where to find Marion, who had the headpiece. Remember Toht on the plane, behind the Life Magazine, following Indy to Nepal? Without Indy, the Nazis would not have had the headpiece, because they had no idea where to find it, and likely would not have found the Ark. Indy was 100% necessary to everything that unfolded in the film.
i find it funny that leonard is always the one to provide the counterpoint that brings them down.
Awwww
I wonder how Spielberg and Lucas felt if they ever saw this 😂😂😂
I would have thought that their jaws dropped also. 😂
They would probably have heard it before - I’m pretty sure Indy’s minimal effect on the plot was a popular discussion point among movie nerds long before TBBT popularized it.
That said, it’s still a funny bit on the show.
Edit: there’s also the fact that the plot hole is only a problem from the standpoint of Indy vs the Nazis. Thematically, it’s really about Indy’s passion for history and its preservation vs the Nazis wanting to exploit it. He (and Marion by extension) survive because of this. He doesnt save the world but he saves the girl he got caught up in things through his involvment. When he says “close your eyes, Marion” is the point he has an impact on the outcome of events…
…wow, I just looked up this video because I wanted to see the clip… Kids, don’t come to the youtube comments shortly after taking your ADD medication or you may find yourself posting mini-essays nobody asked for…
They would have known she was wrong. Did Indy hadn’t taken the Ark to the warehouse the Nazis may have sent more soldiers to recover it and they may not have opened it. Also Indy was needed so he could be followed to Nepal.
Well I always knew indiana jones... are awfuI films.
@@jackmclaughlin9602 Except the only reason Indy was going to Nepal was because US Intelligence intercepted a Nazi communique saying they were looking for Abner Ravenwood to get the headpiece. So they probably would have found Marion in Nepal eventually. Indy just accelerated it.
"Because her life wasn't enough!"😂😂😂😂 Kudos to Howard
lets put it this way..if indi wasn't there...the film wouldn't have been fun
soma solu true
Yeah but it's role is only make the movie fun and irrelevant to the story because the plot is still the same without him
No... But it could possibly be a horror movie.
lol thats true
@@TheProverbialHater Aww
Maybe I'm the only one, but I feel that a movie where the main character ends up having nearly no impact on the plot in itself is pretty bloody amazing.
Well as they said in the end, Indy is the reason that the Ark made it to the United States, but what's funny is the fact that Indy's initial intent to sought after it was unable to be fulfilled since he was unable to research it as originally planned.
@Matt S No, Batman ends up catching the Joker and saving the people on the ferries from being blown up.
@Matt S The Joker's scheme with the ferries was that if neither ship blew up the other by midnight, he would blow them both up; right before Batman snares the Joker, the Joker complains, "Can't rely on anyone these days. You gotta do everything yourself, don't we?" takes out another detonator, and says, "That's okay. I came prepared." He did rig the ferries to be remotely detonated, and he was going to blow up the ferries if Batman hadn't stopped him.
The second part of your comment is true, but Batman does ultimately have an effect on the story.
@Matt S No, he said at the very beginning of his challenge to the people on the ferries that he would blow both ferries up if neither blew the other up by midnight, and his pulling out the detonator was just his upholding that promise. He thought that he had Batman overpowered. Batman was held down by a rail on the scaffold, and the Joker was in position to kill him if he tried anything. The Joker just wasn't expecting the launchable gauntlet blades.
The grenade in the banker's mouth was just a prank.
The grenades in his jacket during the mob meeting were real. He wasn't planning on pulling the pins, of course, but it would've have been much of a promise of mutually-assured destruction if they were fake-as in, if the mobsters actually tried to attack him or something, he would've blown himself up.
@Matt S But Batman saved those people from being blown up.
My issue ( and a minor one at that since I LOVE this movie) has always been this: the dig for the ark occurred in Egypt when it was a colony of Great Britain, and one of the most important colonies because of the Suez Canal. I have a very hard time believing the British would have let an entire German Army run around in Egypt with no oversight by British authorities only a few years before the start of World War II.
Also the rocket launcher that Indiana threatens to blow up the Ark with wasn’t invented by 1936
Stop ruining it even more
Correct. That's a much bigger plot hole than what Amy brought up.
#GlaringPlotHole
The history is rather complex, but by the early 1920's Britain had recognised Egypt as an independent state. The British still had troops stationed in Egypt up to 1936. But a treaty was signed that required the removal of all British troops, with the exception of those at the Suez Canal.
Even though Indy didn't take it to the museum to be studied, he had to turn it in for proper filing because the ark's power is too dangerous to open again. This goes to show that Indy does play a huge role, if he didn't witness the ark's power more people would've died if they opened it and wasn't stored in a safe place again.
Wow, what a huge and dramatic role for the protagonist of the film to play. You got a point though.
Indirectly though. He was pretty mad when the ark was taken from him at the end by “top men”.
@@danielborges69 Aw...................
But maybe the ark could have been opened at a big Nazi rally where high ranking officials and SS, and gestapo would have had their heads melted off and saving millions of lives.
I think what a lot of people are missing is that the ark was the classic McGuffin in the proper old fashioned sense of the word in that the protagonists believe something's important that doesn't turn out to be (confused with the modern day use of McGuffin to mean any object the protagonist is after) This was about Indiana's journey, he starts off lusting after the ark for personal gain but gradually through the course of the film realises that it's something dangerous that must be protected and cherished hence he closes his eyes at the films conclusion and has become the arks protector. This was his journey, who had the ark and the power struggle between the two forces of good and bad are what the film is about not who ended up with the object itself.
George Lucas has stated that the MacGuffin of a story should matter intensely to the audience and has personally said he defines the Ark has being extremely important to the movie as a MacGuffin.
I'm sorry for Amy, but I love when Sheldon dropped his jaw.
seriously one of my favorite TBBT episodes
Howard : Because her life wasn't enough !!!
Savage !!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Like a hero!
Toht followed Indy to Marion who had the medallion. Even if they found Marion without Indy, they’d have killed her to get it. Either there at her bar in Nepal or having taken her hostage to the island and she’d not have known about closing her eyes when the ark was opened and her head would’ve melted. Also, the ark would’ve just sat on that island for all time. The gripe at the end about “Indy not even being able to get it to a museum to study” is irrelevant because the bureaucrats were the ones who obstructed that. Game, set, match... point... Scott... game over... end of game.
These so-called "geniuses" forget one thing. Indy and Marion survive the ritual. This allows the allies to recover the Ark instead of the Nazis. Indy's role is critical.
Please tell me they're wrong Roland, BBT has ruined one of the greatest films of all time for me :(
Blue Whovian
How does this ruin the movie? The movie is about thrills and drama and excitement, not simply how a story turns out. Before I saw this, I already thought it was neat that the events of the movie did not affect history. We start out knowing the Nazis don't get the ark, start World War II, and eventually get defeated in World War II but it's irrelevant because the tone of the film and the peril makes us fear the outcome of the ark being acquired and used in the Biblical fashion. Indiana Jones doesn't have to change anything. There are no plotholes. We as an audience are thoroughly entertained.
Right. The Nazis would've brought it back to Berlin and had a grand opening at a Nazi rally with all the leaders present...oops. Meh, I guess it's also good to have it locked away where none will open it. Besides those geniuses _do_ bring up that fact and summarily realize it's still a shortcoming.
At last another logical thinker, we're a dying breed!
***** Read my comment, it would've been better to let the Nazis bring it back to Berlin and open it.
Do you guys seriously think that Spielberg and Lucas were so damn fools that they didn't notice this even though they are two great filmmakers? They did this intentionally! They wanted to show that Indy realises that there is power beyond himself and he is supposed to surender to it, and an object is not more important than the people he loves!!!
......AWWWWW! Although I'm gonna say that Indy made it so difficult for them to get the ark that they decided then to go to the island to test it, if Indy hadn't made it so difficult to get, they probably would've brought it to the furher straight out.....which may have been a better ending since it wouldve killed more nazis :/
Epic rap battles of history sent me here and now it’s hitting even harder and funnier😂
As my Dad used to tell me when I was little "you're thinking too much". LOL
In Raiders of the Lost Ark...the bad guys were going to send the Ark to
Berlin. It was on a plane and Indy fucked it up for them (which led to
other adventures, ending up on an island).
Let's say it had gone to Berlin...and it was opened...how many Nazis would it
have killed? It only kills the people who are looking at it, correct (thus Indy going 'don't look at it' and then the Ark covers itself up after its' done).
What if it was just opened in a small room for a few guys to see it/witness it? It'd only kill the people who saw it...so what about people outside of the room? The people
on the outside of that would come in to the room after the Ark closed itself, figured out what happened ("hey, everyone disappeared, I bet we can't be in the same room as that thing")...then used the Ark as a weapon, drop it into some American Cities/areas of business, get a few 'Suicidal Nazis' to 'open it for them' at each place, and cause American Terrorism.
But because of Indy? His screwed them up, which led to (in a way, a closed environment where no outside parties could 'walk in' and check to see what has happened) an island where all the nazis become dead, and only Indy and Marion survived. Thus? The two lone survivors take it to the US and is hidden forever.
There you go.
THANK YOU!!! I'VE BEEN KILLING MYSELF TRYING TO PROVE HER WRONG, YOU SAID IT PERFECTLY!!!
ramboraph4life Well said. Also without him there is no movie that's logical enough lol
+ramboraph4life That's a good assumption, but I doubt the people who would come later after the Ark closes itself again would guess that was the Ark the responsible for the deaths. To me a more plausible outcome would be something like a Loop: The Ark is open, people die, then closes itself again (this repeated a number of times) until the Nazis ending up without leadership and with a dismantled army.
except for the fact that belloq would still say that the ark be opened so they could check it first before presenting it to hitler
Without Indy the nazis would have gotten the plane to Berlin and opened the ark directly in front of Hitler, so... Indy saved his life...now the movie is ruined even more, Indy is a bad guy.
I have never seen Indiana Jones, and after this episode, if one day I see it, I will definitely be thinking about this.
Indiana Jones is amazing!!!! If you haven’t watched the films yet, I HIGHLY recommend them
@@sashaking1115 Everyone has seen Indiana Jones.
@@RJCultureClub1984half of Asia: 👁👄👁
Well, this goes right in step with when they tried to figure out the right grammar for the Back to the Future timeline. And the "Hot tub time machine", whatever that was.
Amy's point was actually correct, from a scientists point of view.
Indy's journey is, unfortunately, a religious awakening.
He says he doesn't believe in magic, "a lot of superstitious nonsense."
By the end, Indy tells Marion to close her eyes because it's an act of pure faith; it's a man who didn't believe in "superstitious hocus-pocus" recognizing he's in the presence of something greater.
This is why Amy and the guys wouldn't have seen what it was really about.
Amy was more into the plot of movies where as the guys were in it for the adventure
And Sheldon didn't have a right to be mad. He himself asked Amy to find a story problem.
How’s his awakening unfortunate if it saved his life?
@tivednagol9127 It's a story.
It's not true, just like the religious nonesense attached to it.
I've been reading the comments below and it occurred to me that people seemed to have forgotten that Belloq said that he wanted to do the ritual first, convincing the German Officer to check what is inside in order to make sure that when he presented it to Hitler, his mission would've been a success. Thus, them going to the island and dying anyway.
Another argument was also with the Ark eventually going to the warehouse. If Indy wasn't in the island, then technically, The Ark would've killed the Nazi's and that would've been the end of it. The Ark would be considered lost again and no one else would know where it would be because everyone essentially died.
The only valid argument was how the Nazi found Marion at the bar. Although without Indy, they would've looked for Marion anyway since she is the next of kin to her dead father which Indiana Jones himself said was the expert on the lost city where they found the Ark.
At the end of it all, I do think that the Nazi would've taken a bit longer to get the Ark but they would've been able to accomplish it without Indiana Jones. However, the movie is still excellent and it wouldn't be fun without him.
Indy would have prevented war by killing Belloq.
Nope. If Indy hadn't blown up the plane and then hijacked the truck, the Ark would've gone straight to Germany before Belloq could mess with it.
+Damian Edwards Speculation.
POOR GUYS... their favorite movie DESTROYED ... though I have become a fan of INDIANA JONES now.. thank you, AMY!!!!
Since Indy apparently flew to the site of the first scene how did he not know about Reggie? He must have been on board
Amy is wrong. The nazis would have found the ark and would have just shipped it straight to Berlin. Without a second thought. It was because of Indiana Jones that the nazis decided to see if the ark was worth it to ensure that all their work was worth it
Yea but even then the people in Berlin would've died
How is that worse? Imagine that they bring it back to Berlin and have it in front of a massive Nazi rally with all the top officials and Nazi brass present for the grand opening.
^Yea but still the main point is Indy would still be irrelevant even if that happenes
+gaurav arora That wasn't a response to you. It was directed at the original poster. That's what the reply button is for.
gaurav arora Unlikely how do you ship a 2000 year old relic off an island when you don't know where the island is? Or infact that it is there? It's the sandstorm theory of the Ark disappearing again.
As stated on other comments, because of Indy's knowledge of where Marion was and that she had the artifact, the Nazi's followed him on the plane.
While the movie doesn't show it, the earlier scripts do show that Indiana had knowledge the Nazi's didn't have so they followed him.
If Indiana wasn't involved with the movie, the Nazi's would have never found the medallion and never found the Ark.
Yep, and the fact that Sheldon (with an iedetic memory and watched the movie 36 times) didn't recall the fact that Indiana was followed to the madallion by the Nazis. That is the real hole is in the Big Bang Theory's take that Indiana Jones had no role in the movie's plot. I will surrender that in time, if the Nazis kept digging up the entire area they may have found the Ark without Indiana Jones. But otherwise, Indiana Jones' role plays a key factor in the story.
Yeah but they knew about Marion’s father so it is safe to assume they also knew about his daughter. I admit it would have taken them a little longer, but they would have eventually found her, obtaining the medallion and find the ark.
@@MrJramold -- Well, there's an easy answer for why Sheldon didn't realize that's there's actually no plot hole in Raiders. The writers are unfunny hacks that don't know geek stuff.
The part about the Nazis opening the ark is troubling. Was that their plan from the get go or was it a last minute plan made by Belloq? I feel it was last minute cause of how Indy managed to get the ark so he felt frustrated and irrationally decided to open it to see if it was worth all the hassle
In real life, the two government agents would just simply advised Indy to procure the Medallion from Marion to hinder the Nazis from locating the true location of the Ark. After which, Indy would just return stateside and placed the Medallion into the jurisdiction of Marcus Brody to be displayed in a museum lol
Yeah give it to Marcus great idea like they couldn’t take the medallion from him.
Who cares? With or without me, my football team would have definitely lost the championship...but it was fun for my friends and family to watch. 🤷♂️
the story was about indys development as a character like when hr falls in love
If it wasn't for Indy, the Nazis would have killed Marion and spared her all the pain and suffering that Lucas and Spielberg inflicted on the universe by launching 'Kingdom of the Crystal Skull'.
Amen to that. LOL good point
I remember watching this for the first time with my family and both my sister and dad sitting up and saying no way horrified
Toht had to follow Indy to find Marion so without Indiana Jones the Nazi's never get the headpiece to the staff and never find the well of souls. I hope that saves the movie for you lol
@@Thatguy-zf7hf actually without indy they would have had the medallion in the first place thus helping them dig in the right place and in turn would have eventually found the ark, taken it to Berlin, opened it in front of hitler, killing him and the nazis.
Indy saved hitlers life......
The truth however, is the fact that Amy is wrong. In Raiders lost Ark, the Gestapo agent is seen on the plane behind Indiana Jones following him as he goes to see Marion.
Actually, the Nazis had to follow Indy to Nepal to find the headpiece, the ark was headed for Berlin until Indy blew up the plane and stole the truck (though that may have meant Hitler would have been killed by the Ark) and if there was no one there to have survived the ritual, more Nazis would have come to investigate as to why they had not heard back so the Ark would still have been in Nazi hands and would probably have been destroyed if it was open just long enough to find it contained nothing but sand.
My educational experience tops out at a high school diploma and I remembered that the Nazis had to follow Indy to Nepal the second Amy said Indy serves no purpose while four "geniuses" never came to that conclusion.
I was going to respond in a similar manor until I came across your statement. The creepy nazi with glasses was on the plane with Indy some how and followed him to Marion, ultimately the madallion. So that blows her Amy's reasoning of "they (the Nazis) would have found the ark" without Indy out of the water cause they were digging in wrong place. BUT if she would have said "they eventually would have found the Ark, if they dug up the entire area", then maybe her argument stands.
@MrJramold the nazis knew that Marion had the medallion they just didn't know where. If indi weren't in the film they would have went after her father to get to her, get the medallion, find the ark, open it then die
Lucas and Spielberg's jaws were opennnned wiiiiiiiide.... 🦈
I love how the rest of them don’t even try to argue. They just immediately accept that Amy has a point and get sad about it
Ok… I am watching Raiders now, and I found something. Indy went to Nepal, he was followed by the Nazis, if he didn’t go to Nepal for Marion, the Nazis wouldn’t have followed him, then they would not have got the headpiece of the Staff, so even though technically it’s Indy’s fault it the Nazis got the Ark, he was instrumental on getting the Ark to safe storage, which considering the power of the Ark is a better place than a museum
Exactly. Without Indy, there is no Nepal, no Marion and no Medallion. Now tell me how the Nazis find the Ark without that. (Cricket... cricket...)
@@planetkori that is an absolute quality reply 😁 love it 😁
Like a hero!
I thought it was weird about this episode that Sheldon didn't find the glaring problem in Pride and Prejudice. When someone pointed it out to me, it totally ruined it for me. I have no idea if anyone in these comments will care since everyone seems to be arguing about Raiders, but here goes.
Elizabeth Bennett goes on about how money/security doesn't motivate her for marriage, but she "falls in love" with Darcy only after she sees how big his house is. Sure you can rationalize it with finding out she'd been deceived by Wickham, finding out Darcy is both a good friend and brother and she wants him more after he seems more out of her league when Lydia's scandal rocks the famiy. But really, she hated him because of his pride, and then she was embarrassed that she misjudged him after reading his letter, and then she saw his house and loved him. Of course, it's part of a fantasy that you fall in desperate mutual love with a man who also happens to be so rich you never have to worry about money again, but still. (Fifty Shades, anyone?) It sure makes Elizabeth's character fickle, hypocritical, and vain. I'm sure if Sheldon had pointed that out, Amy would have not felt that book was quite so romantic anymore.
I've not read the novel, but have read suggestions that Jane Austen in that book was mocking early 19th century societal pretensions that wealthy people always 'married for love' when as often as not they married at least as much for money. A lot of the supposed gentry were mildly impoverished due to the expense of keeping up such grand houses and so on. The mother of Winston Churchill, Lady Randolph, was herself an American money bride as her father was very wealthy.
I always though perfection was overrated in terms of art and entertainment. Just because a movie has some imperfections does not always mean that it is a bad movie. I can think up a lot of mistakes in The Raiders of the Lost Ark, but that does not mean that I dislike it, or that it ruins my likeness of the film.
NerdyMatt It depends on what the mistakes are. When I saw it in the theater in '81, it was a letdown to me that Indy didn't defeat the bad guys himself, as you'd expect. I still enjoyed it (not enough to have ever watched it again) but that violation of the expectations of the genre stuck out like a sore thumb for me.
+Booker Jones You got a very good point, I though the same way too, which is one of the reasons why I liked The Last Crusade better. I just think that it's crazy how people are trying to prove this show wrong, like they don't want their beloved movie ruined.
Agreed. Except this is not a mistake. Only Indy knew where to find Marion, who had the headpiece. Remember Toht on the plane, behind the Life Magazine, following Indy to Nepal? Without Indy, the Nazi's would not have had the headpiece, and likely would not have found the Ark. Indy was 100% necessary, and Blossom's comment on the film is shit. As is TBBT.
Yeah, even some of my favorite movies have a few imperfections of their own. It really does depend on what the imperfections are.
For instance, the reason I find Frozen to be bad is because it has several story problems, several of them being pretty big ones. (If Hans was evil all along, why did he give that friendly smile when he was alone? Why did Elsa sing about not being afraid anymore and be all confident and then go back to being scared again? How did Olaf know Anna was locked I that room? Why erase Anna's memories of Elsa having ice powers when she was fine with them before? etc. etc.)
I wonder how Sheldon would react if I told him Mcgonagall isn't supposed to be alive in the Fantastic Beasts movies
The speed on hailie berry lol
1:52.
I’d say Kunnal Nayyar. I have no idea why…
0:45 Lmao!!!
It was necessary for Indy to shoot the Intimidating Swordsman, upon which adventure becomes legendary adventure. Not to mention bringing back Fedoras and whips.
I would love to see Harrison Ford guest star on the show
2 episodes left; prolly won't happen :(
They wouldn't have had the headpiece because Toht had to follow Indy to find Marion. Also his job was to get the Ark and he did it so. I get what they're saying but it's not true
Absolutely right. But i don't "get what they're saying", because what you said invalidates everything Blossom said in the episode.
Taking it to a museum where it would not be as protected, rather than a government facility, where it would be the most protected, would be a pretty bad idea considering the power of the box.
what's funny to me is that there seem to be quite a few who are actually discussion that thesis in a serious manner.
because it really doesn't matter. like it absolutely doesn't matter how much relevance Indiana Jones has to the "plot" because it's an adventure movie, it's supposed to be about the journey and the "ride".
1. The fact that Indy pretty much saved Marion from the Nazis and the latter were digging in the wrong place because of Toht's burnt hand should be indicative enough that Indy DOES have some impact on the plot.
2. Indy's impact on the plot matters MUCH less than his character arc. It's all about character.
3. People from my generation are so nitpicky (is that even a real world) and forget how to enjoy the spectacle of classic films.
While Amy's point is technically correct, the argument could be made that Indy's purpose in the film was never to stop the Nazis getting the ark. His role was to rescue Marion Ravenwood, who would have almost certainly been killed without him.
How about the ending to Temple of Doom? Edit: He is essential as the last stones where in the cave and by the time of children's freedom (or the minecraft scenes) the stones where in an excavated site, in the wall face.
The Last Crusade (favorite film) . . . You cant cross the shield with the Grail or the power for everlasting life will disappear and the temple implodes, but the trade off is that you can still use it to heal wounds and cure sickness. Either way everyone in that cave would have died from the shines without Indians aid.
Indy knew the power of the ark and BAZINGA ! 😁😁
#TheBigBangTheory I didn't see this until this episode!
rolling!
Still not entirely clear on where Indy hid while on the submarine.If it submerges,he dies.If it stays on the surface,the crew will be wandering the deck.
Don't mess with Austen.
The Germans found the Medallion because they were following Indy. They probably never would have found it unless that happened. Indy definitely played a role.
Also he stowed away on outside of submarine. He was taking a huge chance the sub didn't dive going from Egypt to Greece
Well, Amy is right about "Raiders." But she can't take "Temple of Doom" away from us. Indy saves the children, gets the stone back to the village, defeats Mola Ram in a climactic showdown, and saves the day. As Raj said: "Like a hero!" :)
eternalhalloween1 she isn’t right. The Nazis we’re digging in the wrong place as Indy lead the nazis to the medallion. Without Indy, the nazis couldn’t have found the ark as they had no clue about the true medallion. And if they did, it was going to be flown to Berlin, but Marion blew the plane up whilst Indy was fighting the Big Nazi Guy. If Indy wasn’t in it then the ark would never have been found, and on the chance it was, it would’ve been sent to Berlin to be opened...
@@alfie3727 Indy is the reason the nazis were digging in the wrong place.
@@alfie3727 -- You're partly right. But Indy's importance goes earlier than that. Only Indy knew where to find Marion, who had the headpiece. Remember Toht on the plane, behind the Life Magazine, following Indy to Nepal? Without Indy, the Nazi's would not have had the headpiece at all, let alone one side of it, and likely would not have found the Ark. Indy was 100% necessary, and Blossom's comment on the film is shit. As is TBBT.
You can’t say that the Nazis would’ve found the arc. Maybe eventually they would have after digging up that entire desert but that’s not a guarantee that they would’ve found it.
Indy is the one that discovered the Well of Souls though and the Nazis wouldn't have been able to obtain the arc without him, the Nazis even stated to Belloq during the dig that Hitler was getting impatient and they were getting ready to call everything off.
But that was Leonard's point. Without Indy preventing them from getting the actual medallion in Nepal they would have had both sides from the start and dug in the correct location. Indy and his crew _did_ dig in the correct location but got caught and thus ended up leading the Nazis to the ark anyways. In other words, Indy cancelled out his action which would have foiled the Nazis by doing another action which put them back on track.
@@arkwill14 -- No, you're completely wrong. If it weren't for Indy, the Nazis would NOT have had the headpiece. They had no idea where to find it. When they showed up in Marion's bar, they only did because they followed Indy all the way from America to find her. No Indy, no headpiece. No headpiece, and the Nazis would have still had no idea where to look.
I watched Raiders for the first time just now, and came here to see if Amy was really correct. Turns out she is, for the most part. But the movie's still good
No, she's not. She's totally wrong. Watch it again.
Amy was wrong. How would the Nazis have found Marion's bar in Nepal without following Indy on the plane? (Toht) No chance. Also the Ark was taken back to Washington and out harm's way because of Indy (with help from Marion and Katenga)
Yup, Stephanie got it exactly right. The Nazis had no idea where the headpiece was, until they followed Indy. Blossom don't know shit.
@stephaniegormley9982 technically it was taken from indi by top men and those men did it
Indi is just there in the movie to make the whip wiggle
I think what Amy was saying is that the ultimate outcome of opening the Ark then dying.
But the Nazis never would have found the Ark at all if it weren't for Indy. Or at least, there's no indication they would have. Only Indy knew where Marion was, who had the headpiece with the crystal. No Indy, no headpiece, no direction to the Well of Souls where the Ark was. Blossom was wrong.
@trekkiejunk6322 actually the nazis knew everything that indi knew, the only reason they didn't have the medallion sooner was because of indi, without indi the nazis would have found the ark, opened it then died.
If it wasn't for Indy the Nazis would have killed Marion for the Medallion. Saved the girl like any good hero!
If they didn't interfere, then the Nazis would have the medallion no problem.
You're both wrong. The Nazis (nor American Intelligence) could even find Abner Ravenwood. This is stated in the film. Only Indy knew how to get to his daughter, who had the medallion. So, the Nazis just followed Indy across the globe to Nepal. Without Indy, the Nazis would likely have never found Marion and the medallion. So, how would the Nazis have killed Marion without Indy?
*TVD (S2Ep6 12:50)mentioned this abit way before this episode tho
Funny thing is Amy watched it once and everyone else watched so many times never noticed it lol
While they are valid points, there's one thing that gets left out and people overlook
The army intelligence did not task Indy in preventing the Nazis from digging up the ark, he was tasked to get it before they did and swipe it before they had a chance. Marcus says it himself in industry house.
That to me settles this silly argument
Man this is pretty easy. The Nazis had no idea where Abner Ravenwood was. Even the US army intelligence agents who spoke with Indy said that they couldn’t find him. The Nazis knew Abner had the medallion most likely so they sent Toht to tail Indy, since he was associated with Abner. So if it wasn’t for Indy, the Nazis would’ve never found the Medallion, which means that they couldn’t locate the Ark. It’s that simple!
I never understood this. A story talks about the transformation of the protagonist. Indy is shown as a skeptic at the beginning of the movie and after the adventure, at the end of the movie, realizes there are powers bigger than simple artifacts or humanity itself. He changes thanks to the adventure and story. The audience lives that change too. Indy's relevance in saving the world from the nazis has nothing to do with the story. He thought he was there to save the world but in reality he was there to presence the unknown. That's why the last movie has nothing to do with Indy: he is again a skeptic after having lived all those mystical experiences. Fan fiction. And Amy is wrong, this is not a story problem. It could just shake the perspective that Indy was a hero who saved the day, but that's not the point of his adventure. It was a mystical transformation.
One counterpoint I have, if Indiana Jones wasn’t there, Marion would’ve been blinded by the nazis.
This is so stupid... So, if Indie were out of the equation, the ark would be there to be opened and will kill over and over and over again? I think is really important that he will be there 🤷♂
NO! Indiana met with Army Intelligence agents in the second scene of the movie after his class finished. THE US GOVERNMENT put their trust in Indy and the first thing he knew was to get his ass to Nepal ASAP to pay off Marion for the medallion ($3000 in 1936) before the Gestapo got to it. The Gestapo knew it, why do think the bad guy was on the plane reading the magazine when Indy boarded the plane flying out of San Francisco? What? The shootout at Marion's bar in Nepal was nothing with the Gestapo guy picking up the scalding hot medallion and burning it into his hand? That set up the WHOLE movie!
Then wouldn't the Ark be stuck on an island? For me, the glaring problem is the arks powers of choice. I would have been just fine if nothing happened or people touching the ark not appointed by GOD getting hit by random lightening strikes or a random lion mauling a person.
Sometimes the character isn’t supposed to impact the story, the story is supposed to impact the character.
but that's kind of missing the point; the movie itself isn't necessarily about the macguffin but rather the journey itself & how it changes him
Have to disagree with Amy. Although I do see her point.
Consider this.
The Nazis already had their dig going on in Tanis. Or at least a city they belived to be Tanis.
But. They were not finding the Ark, and they were running out of time to show results. befor they either had to move on, or get shut down.
They needed an expert on Tanis, and that would be Ravenwood.
They didn't know where to find him. but knew Jones might.
So they used their guys in the US State Department to draw Jones in to find Ravenwood.
The SS agent who intarigated Marian, only showed up there, because he was following Jones.
Otherwise, he would never have known to go to Tibet or Marians bar. And would not have found the amulet.
So, Jones is acting as an ex machina. Driving the plot out of the corner the Nazis painted themselves into.
man until BBT came along I was happy now I keep awing in my head trying desperately to justify Indiana's existence in the whole plot. Damn you BBT!!!
His actions set up a situation where a bunch of Nazis died.
DemonEyeX they wouldve died anyway
Dizzy Blu Ah man!
Meh point of the movie was to have a good time, myb this was just to show sme things r out of our control (cue creepy ark music)
Dizzy Blu DemonEyeX In fact in that island that the nazis died that were probably some other nazis (supposing that the nazis were rational and left at least 10 guards to take care of the island) without indy the nazis would have found the ark and a bunch of dead nazis then they'd have taken the ark to Berlim and GG nazis
I suppose Indy had no effect on the outcome of Temple of Doom and Last Crusade either?
Not really.
i predatori dell'arca perduta è un film mitico! ci sono rimasto male anche io per l'obiezione sulla trama.
like a hero! XD
No if indy wasn't in the story, the whole movie would have been about a bunch of prick nazis digging in the desert, getting frustrated, never finding it, and moving on to do more damage in the world, instead of Indy finding it, them stealing it, and getting their just deserts by God and a bunch of angels by opening it. There, I saved Raiders of the Lost Ark!!!
nice work!! Good to see someone with the right idea!!
@@Pariteasto -- "Would have bought the medal of whatever it was?" I have a feeling you never saw the film. Anyway, no they wouldn't have. Watch the film again. The Nazis had no idea where to find the medallion (or the Ravenwoods), and even US Intelligence had been looking for the Ravenwoods and couldn't find them. And the Nazis were getting close to giving up. This is all stated in the film. Heck, the Nazis weren't even searching in Nepal, where she lived. There's no reason to think the Nazis would have found her without following Indy across the globe, right to her doorstep.
This was a good episode of the series. I think it was shitty Amy pointed out to Sheldon that Indiana Jones was irrelevant to the story. I saw Raiders in its entirety one time and I picked up on that. Marion had more relevance to the outcome of the story than Indy did. I guess Sheldon just loved the movie so much he didn't notice. I think Indy was more on a spiritual journey. He wasn't trying to lead the Nazis to the ark.
Except you're wrong. Only Indy knew where to find Marion, who had the headpiece. Remember Toht on the plane, behind the Life Magazine, following Indy to Nepal? Without Indy, the Nazi's would not have had the headpiece, and likely would not have found the Ark. Indy was 100% necessary, and Blossom's comment on the film is shit. As is TBBT.
The Nazis did not know where the medallion was until they followed Indy to Marion's bar. So, without Indy they would still be looking for it and not looked in the right place.
Would the character of Indiana know that?
And what would have happened to the Ark if Indy was not there after it was opened?
1. He wouldent but that dosent change the fact that he is irrelevant
2. Idk we never get more info about the arc but we can’t assume otherwise either.
@@cuppajoe2 1. I think Marion would disagree.
2. The Germans would know about it and could still retrieve it.
In a character-driven story, plot turns out to be relatively unimportant.
But this isn't a character driven story
It's a character centric story
Character doesn't drive anything here in the plot
Unless by story you're referring to indie's story, in which case it is character driven
@@it6647 Yeah, I’m talking about the story.
Because her life wasn't enough
🤣🤣🤣
I can find one problem with Pride and Prejudice. The fact that it does not invoke any interest in me to read it in the first place.
Of course, Indy was indispensable. He was the only one that cool hat actually fit.
This whole scene is an infohazard
How did Indy know the Nazis were going to go to an island, preform a ritual, and open it up? For all he knew they were taking it to Berlin to be studied and perhaps somehow exploited to the coming war effort. I don't think he knew when he took the job that opening the ark would melt/collapse a persons face, send lighting(?) through people or make them spontaneously combust! A better question is how did he survive that submarine ride? It had to submerge sooner or later!
Submarine ride is a BIG plot hole, but everything else can be answered. Indy didn't know the Nazis were on the island, he followed them to it. He didn't know that the ark would do what it did, but throughout the movie little hints were given to the audience and Indy that the ark wasn't meant to be toyed with, such as Marcus's warning in the beginning and Sallah's afterward. All he knew was not to mess with it.
+fiversrevenge I think in the book the submarine never dived too far, so he could grab some fish, hm well .... yeah not convincing at all ^^
+fiversrevenge They were they would have used that strange Aircraft to airlift it to Berlin directly, now Indy destroyed the Aircraft so they had to Think of something else.
At least Amy cannot ruin The Last Crusade.
I disagree with Amy. Dr. Jones's existence actually did change the outcome of the plot. Without Indiana, Nazi would have taken longer to find the ark. Since the war is on-going, who knows if Nazi's ark finding effort will be thwarted by their defeat in the hands of the allied forces. If so, somebody else besides the Nazi, would have found the ark, and those people would have died instead of the Nazi.
They probably would've never found it because the only reason they found Marion was by following Indiana Jones. So if they couldn't find her on their own then they couldn't get the headpiece and find the ark
This is the best of Amy. Brilliant
Except it wasn't brilliant. Only Indy knew where to find Marion, who had the headpiece. Remember Toht on the plane, behind the Life Magazine, following Indy to Nepal? Without Indy, the Nazi's would not have had the headpiece, and likely would not have found the Ark. Indy was 100% necessary, and Blossom's comment on the film is shit. As is TBBT.
Contrary to what Amy said and what some others believe Indy was essential to the plot because the the Nazis needed to follow him to Nepal to get the headpiece also of Indy don’t help store the Ark in the warehouse the Nazis would have sent more soldiers who may have been successful in getting it.
Chuck and I went to see this movie. We both really liked it. And then he made the obvious glaring story problem.
I fell in love with him then.
But Indiana saved Marianne who had the amulet. The amulet was burned onto that man hand which gave the wrong location. Indiana pissed off Marianne. For someone as smart as Sheldon he didn’t put up much of a fight and he is a ‘smart’ man. There was no debate. If Beloq and Indiana didn’t have such a rivalry things wouldn’t be revealed…
If things did end up the same there wouldn’t be a movie. If there was no Indiana, the ark would be stuck on that hill and not in a secret warehouse in the USA.
Ok, first off, her name is Marion, not Marianne. Beyond that, you're partly correct. The part you missed is that without Indy, the Nazis wouldn't have known where to find Marion, i.e. the headpiece to the staff. No Indy, no headpiece at all. No headpiece, no Ark.
It seems like a writer on the show opened the wrong subreddit and then wanted to destroy the peace.
Like A Hero! 😂👌
This makes no sense. Amy ruins Raiders of the lost Ark by saying:
Amy: "Indiana Jones plays no role in the outcome of the story. If he weren't in the film, it would turn out exactly the same."
And it everyone thinks Amy is correct. But Howard provided two counterarguments that were dismissed as incorrect, but they were actually correct:
Howard: "The Nazis were digging in the wrong place. The only reason they got the ark was because Indy found it first."
Leonard: "Actually, they were only digging in the wrong place because Indy had the medallion. Without him, they would've had the medallion and dug in the right place."
Howard: "If it wasn't for Indiana Jones, the ark would never have ended up at the warehouse."
Leonard: "Although technically Indy was supposed to take the ark to a museum to be studied, he couldn't even get that done."
So Leonard was saying Howard's arguments did not prove that Indy was a hero, and that is correct. However, Amy wasn't arguing that, she was arguing Indy had no impact on the story, but Leonard proved he clearly did have an impact on the story.
Amy's position was "IJ plays no role in the outcome of the story" and she's right. Damn right.
Ok, forget ALL of that, and understand how Blossom was wrong... In the film, US Intelligence had been looking for Marion's father, and their trail was dead. The Nazis were close to giving up, too. This was all stated in the film. BUT, only Indy knew where to find Marion, who had the headpiece. Remember Toht on the plane, behind the Life Magazine, following Indy to Nepal? Without Indy, the Nazis would not have had the headpiece, because they had no idea where to find it, and likely would not have found the Ark. Indy was 100% necessary to everything that unfolded in the film.