Just found your videos, great content. The point you made on perfectionism hits home as a new woodworker. I was asked to make a keepsake box for a friends fathers ashes.. i made a ton of “rough” furniture, tables chairs etc but never attempted fine wood work. I finished the box and all I saw was the tiny gap in one of the corners but when I gave it to her all she did was glow at how it turned out and was posting pictures all over her social media. I almost told her I couldn’t give it to her because of that corner, she said “what corner?” Lol
Great video! My mistake was a coworker wanted a simple, small and cheap kitchen island. I over complicated the process trying to recycle an old desk and it was taking too long and I ran in to so many problems that she just went out and bought something cheap and didn’t even bother to tell me. Keep the project simple unless customer requests otherwise. Get it done fast. Prioritize. I’m out on money I spent and have a partially completed small kitchen island that is useless now. Like you said. KISS. Keep It Short and Sweet. Customers will care about the finished product in their hands, not your journey.
That's good stuff. Very important about the difference between "What you make" and "What the business makes" I always looked at it like this, you need to charge for your time and your tools time- as the tools are doing a substantial amount of the work. When your router needs replacing- that tool should have already made enough money to replace itself with a new model of your choice and not come out of your personal checking acct! Very worthwhile video guys- thank you!
Every time I build something, I post the pictures on FB. Recently I built a huge entertainment unit. 13' wide and 8' tall. After I post the photo on FB , people we're surprised that I could build something like that. Then I got a customer that compliment me and gave me a carriage swing to build.
Love your take on pricing and anti-perfectionism. Really good concepts and amazing advice for amateurs and pro's alike. I've been a professional fabricator for a long time, and this is the first time I've seen someone explain those two things so well. Kudos!
Mistakes and imperfections in the piece itself gives character. No one else has this piece made exactly as you do. That’s what makes it custom. Keep your mouth shut when the customer is looking at it. You’d be surprised as to how some customers get excited over the look. I had one piece I was cringing over. This was my early days in scroll sawing. This lady just absolutely gushed over this piece. She said it took her breath away. I later kicked myself for not charging more. Lesson learned.
My dad used to tell me dont let perfectin ruin good enough. I also like what ya said about antique furniture there is always a show side and a functional side that isnt as perfect.
Watching through all these at the minute. I’m a full time bench joiner for a company and I’m slowly trying to make my own pieces to pay for tool for my own shop which is also a garage! I’ve even got my own Dobe!
Your comment on tools upgrades and value vs cost to a business was on point. I just bought a track saw (Dewalt with long and short track). 1st cut... Wow.. Why did I wait. Saved so much time and hassle, especially when working solo with full sheets. My situation changed recently where a job change results in my work hours and any extra I can work being very lucrative. Wood working has become a hobby and a mental break. Now saving time to produce my project is my mental therapy and being efficient is part of that. In a funny way, my efficiency in the shop let's me focus on my real work.
@@mikesibley9339 honestly because I have all yellow batteries. It just made sense with my systems. I have been impressed with it so far. The pluge system is smooth, I don't what people complain about, maybe because I used this first and I did not get use to the pivoting system. Unless another brand tool is significantly better I stay with dealt. If I started with Milwaukee or makita, I would say the same thing. Oh, and I caught a sale through CPO outlets. There were some foreign Australian vids that put the dewalt on top 2nd to the festool. No way I am spending festool cash.
I think the tip about not buying pretty premium tools and then spending a lot of time messing around with those or correcting the errors those tools create. I went big when I got my drum sander and I've not regretted the time savings it affords me for a moment.
I was told by the man who ran the MWR wood shop at Karlsruhe GE in 1992 that I was the only one that would know where the flaws were in my work. I found that to be true no matter what medium I work in.
Man wish I would have found your chanel a long time ago. You are so helpful for the back porch and side hustle projects. Wish I could share some of my charcuterie boards that have been inspired by your chanel.
Great information to be sharing!!! When it comes to "friends" and or "family", I honestly trying stirring away from doing business with either one. If either one still insist upon doing business with me, I'm still straight forward and up front about my prices with them. Basically meaning, just because they are friends or family, I can't cut my prices for them.
uz guyz are the best! sry, my Jersey City comes out sometimes but I'm in NC now and a beginner. I'm amazed how much you share to and for others like me. This video has put me months or more ahead of where I would be if that makes sense. I'll be investing in more of your knowledge but I've decided that cash should come from what I've earned - a little self-motivation. I retired w/zilch knowledge of carpentry but good with my hands (I was a Corpsman and could save your life but could not build you a chair). Tired of playing bad golf 5x/week, guess we get tired of anything we do too much. I've started w/beginners stuff, as I should -- Flags, corn hole boards, blanket ladders and looking to move on. In that respect uz guyz have been an unbelievable source of knowledge and truth be told, you've kept me going. I enjoy the work - even hours of sanding, lol. So I'm going to keep at it, learn more, work more, etc... thinking about a farm w/a barn for sale. Many thanks, oh, and I'm not really a bad golfer but it got old taking all my friends money on the course and just buying them a drink afterward. Soon I can take their money and give them something in return, a table, a chair, etc... lol. Won't stop golfing entirely - have too many connections at the country club who will buy furniture from me when the time comes that I'm at that level. I'm not aware of any woodworkers living there but if there are 1 or 2 I'll be better! You've given me so much right down to pricing structure and I am grateful. My Grandmother Gretta, may she rest in peace, would've said you two are as cute as a button. God Bless... that saying never made sense to me, are there cute buttons? I've boored you enough but need to find the video about finding customers and hanging out in different places. The hoity-toity crowd grows lean if you know what I mean. At my age not good w/computers but have lotsa time, I'll find it. The hoity-toity's are my future capital . Stay healthy and safe...
Great advice. I am a slow wood worker. So it's really challenging to put a price for hourly work. I get interrupted often or I have to stop and do other things. I do my best for a whole rate for a project.
The tip about pricing was very helpful. Now that we are making sales my biggest concern was pricing properly and fairly. So I will definitely be using that template to revisit all my builds. Thanks for the video!
Would recommend to use the following when pricing: Formula: Material cost + labour cost = total cost + x% of total cost as a safety margin + x% markup = Price Additionally be mindful that markup does not equal margin (gross margin). Usually, margin % is less than markup %.
Some good tips here for sure. The only one I would add because it is one I am currently going through, is that you sometimes have to work on yourself before you can put your all into your business. You can’t expect it to run at 100% if you aren’t at that either physically or mentally.
Thank you for the video just found you all excited about it l been woodworking for a while now but definitely wanting to grow more, also like the fact of that studstack you talked about I think it's called, will join so much to learn on how to use social media im a work in progress
You guys are great. Just found you today and this is my 6th video already. Yeah, you are obviously skilled and have a firm grasp on the business, but that double finger gun emoji thing Davis does.... AMAZING!
You mentioned having your customer sign a contract. The word "contract" can be an intimidating term for some people. What does your contract look like, and how do you go about that part of the sale?
My question on that is $30 an hour like a regional price or like a price for building simple things? Would you charge more if you were doing more complex work? Like 30 an hour for cutting boards but more if hand cutting dovetails and doing mortise and tenon joinery versus just using pocket screws.
Provide a quality product or service. Treat customers with honesty and respect. Satisfied customers are as important as profit. I run a small business. I don't advertise but customer word of mouth advertising provides all the work i need.
@14:29 "The people you're around right now may not be the ones who have the money to spend on nice furniture, you need to get some new friends" WHAT!?!? lol
That thing you was saying about perfection. Surely if your business are make top end market handmade leather purses etc. Wouldn’t you want everyone of them to be perfect. Otherwise your products won’t be top end. Still a good video👍👍
This is advice for woodworking mate. Making leather purses vs working with wood are 2 different specialties. You can get away with much more in a wood project, because it'll still hold up vs. a purse with missed stitches. I guarantee you that top end wood workers make mistakes, they just know how to cover them up better and have a higher price to allow that time for cover up.
Not to mention that high end purses do have flaws. There are hidden truths behind seams and many imperfections actually make no difference in quality. Stitches show, but a tiny difference in fabric width on each side of a purse would be unnoticed. They didn't say to make it sloppy, but know what tolerances are workable. Fabric (and leather) are very flexible making an eighth inch unnoticed. Wood is slightly flexible so has less tolerance but still has room to forgive. Metals often need perfection down to thousandths of an inch. Of course the equipment used in each of these crafts are designed to achieve these needs.
@@taffythegreat1986 There is a difference between sloppy and not perfect. Stuff at Wal-Mart us often sloppy. It's also not custom and won't last. Wood costs more then particle board and hard wood costs even more.. When you start asking for specialty woods, materials get even higher. I won't pay $5 for a pen but I sell $75 and up pens with custom designs and details. I'm not my customer, though. There are many reasons to buy high end (lasts longer, custom or niche, made with passion or piece of art, supports local, ability to get addition pieces that will match and fit needs, and more.)
Again.. I'm a perfectionist and a craftsman. I notice every detail, but most people simply don't. They definitely notice sloppy, though. If I don't stop myself, I will end up in tears on little projects after 20th attempts and 100 hours or more on tiny details. I know I will never get perfect as I'm an imperfect being working with imperfect materials, in an imperfect world. I must settle for close to perfect and high quality.
You two are fun. Very informative too. I suffer from perfectionism, but as long as I remember that pobody is nerfect, I can move on and just do my best each time. Keep up the good work. Btw, I have wanted to shut my business down before because I had a long run of customers that were unreasonable. You mentioned not to blame the customer, but when you've been doing the same thing for 22 years, it's not hard to recognize when the customers truly are being unreasonable. They are out there, and I got 4 in a row, which with my volume of production took up 4 months. In my efforts to give my customers to a friend with his own shop, I received love and support from dozens of old customers who refused to have anyone but me do their work They seriously would not hire my friend. It was so touching that I couldn't say no. Anyway, I ramble. Be well you two! Can I pretty please ask you to take a look at my channel?
Antique joints may be loose because they are old... worn out, But they still are often repairable due to the original craftsmanship, unlike a lot of new pieces.
not good but great info on moving the businesses foreword, been taking nots to study and apply them, I have a question, if the I told the customer before hand that I'm a beginner and they still said no problem but later they come back with a complain, should I fix the issue with or without extra charge? thnx a bunch for the informative videos.
What if the (material + labor)x 1.4 is overprice than what market price sell ? This is what I frustrated for me, I'm beginner for woodworking. Only use some weekend day to build a 1 piece furniture ? And I'm lack of power tools too 😭😭 any suggestion ?
like everyother video ya'll do this is awesome and you have helped me restructure my pricing to make my business more effective. Would it be possible to see a sample invoice that you would present a customer? Thank you for your help and insight. -Robby
What do you do when the client looses their minds about a quote? I gave a returning client a quote for a prep table for her energy tea business that would pass a health inspection of $2500. She said there's no way it would cost that much and she wouldn't pay more than $800, which just so happened to be the cost of materials. The rest was labor, it was a huge prep table over 8 feet long. We didn't give her an itemized quote which would have detailed the labor and material costs (should we have?). Since then we've had no business and we've lost her as return customer. Business has been bad since then. What is your advice on a situation like this? Eat the cost to keep the customer or tell her to kick rocks because she gets what she pays for? Thanks in advance.
How much, if any, of a down payment do you guys suggest taking on a project? And do you suggest starting out with contracts or just trying to keep it old fashioned with partial payment (when it's agreed on, the rest when it's delivered) and a handshake like people around my town do?
Handshake is fine, but I still send an email or written record of the job just so I have something to point to if it goes wrong. Bigger projects for private individuals ($1500+) we do 50% down, 50% on delivery.
I´s all relative. If you are in a segment selling luxury design, you need to achieve, not aim, achieve perfect finishes. Quality level always depends on your target clients, you can´t just move on with good enough with all :>
Hi jenny and davis, With my business Trinity Woods ive being started a horeca line. What is the best way to sell/ introduce my handcrafted products to restaurants?
Great video! At what point to you go from someone asking you to make something for them, to making them sign a contract? - on that, can you please share what the contract includes? Also wondering how you find contract work / get in contact with a business (such as a cafe) to build furniture for them?
We try to close everything in the same conversation. Don't let time pass between the idea and their commitment to buy. Usually after the conversation where we close we immediately send a contract which is just a loose agreement on what the project will entail and an expected price.
@@jennieanddavis Thank you - follow-up question: Which items do you show on your invoice? I have been putting materials, labor and "Service and Tools Fee" which accounts for my markup.
Nope. Just final price and any credits for prepayment. Itemizing just gives the customer more opportunity to dislike something. More streamlined = fewer questions
Only perfection leaves my shop but because all my full dovetails are perfect and my finishes are stunning I can charge anything I feel. If i made corn hole games it’s different set standards to launch your business into where you want to be. Just never let that standard slip because you will spend the next five years overcoming that one flaw that you could have corrected in 5 hours. When you think of Rolls Royce you don’t picture a chevy in your head. Keep that expectation of excellence alive in customers by feeding them consistently the best quality. We build hand made things so does Rolls Royce and Rolex we are better and it is expected to be better, last longer be more creative. If you are just knocking stuff out save your hands and back and order it from china by the boatload make your slim profit. Nothing wrong with that. But if you want to make something then take the time and build a treasure that will last even when that thing is gone. People don’t forget beautiful objects, ever.
Your math is wrong. If you only want a 40 percent markup, then multiply cost times 1.40. If you want to make 40 percent profit then take your cost and then divide that by .6. For example $100 times 1.4 equals $140 Now if you want to make 40 percent then take $100 and divide by .6. Your actual selling price is $166.66. That is a true 40 percent profit.
30 dollars per hour is only a 60K a year job? Can you explain how you can earn a better living than just above the US Median household income? A lot of You Tubers are explaining streams of income.
We’ve always said we would not take TOOL sponsors! If you want us to go add free, we would need our patreon to explode! Nothing is ever free. I’m sorry our 50+ non-sponsored videos weren’t enough for you.
"Perfection" is the wood. If the customer wants "no flaws" buy plastic. Flaws are "character" and value of heirloom pieces. Not all customers get it, so they are not your customers.....Go to Walmart..........Cheers Jeff
Here's one: Don't be a douchebag to your customers. As a customer to some businesses near me, I'm always amazed at how I get treated, for no reason... (I'm not at all rude or demanding) Seriously! I've been to 2 small local vacuum stores and both times they treated me condescendingly when I inquired about parts I was looking for. I can kinda understand when it's an hourly employee/staff (they basically don't care if you never came back) but to see the store owners drive business away so nonchalantly is astonishing. Here's another (on a related note): Be VERY careful who fronts your business. I know so many businesses that have sour/rude people in a customer-facing role. Big mistake. A few times, I've vowed to NEVER return because of rude or dismissive staff. Take complaints seriously if a customer complains about staff treating them badly....if it's multiple complaints, then you have a problem staff member...they will lose you a LOT of business. Yes, even dismissive type staff. E.g. a customer is waiting to order and a young staff member is talking to her friend or on her phone...see the customer and ignores them...and then has an attitude that makes the customer feel like they are a nuisance for just wanting to place an order...I've seen it many times
If your friends are those who can bring you guys money... hummm This is very bad. You will never have real friends. You guys are not making money with woodwork, just with internet, youtube, "courses", etc. Sorry, I'm just realistic.
You're wrong, friend. We have tons of friends and the furniture we've built them has actually made us closer. Learn more about someone's situation before you start throwing judgment.
Why do you have a labor cost and then mark it up? If a client asks how much labor is and you say $40 an hour, but you did (materials + $40) * 1.4 then they are paying MORE than $40 for labor. You math really should be ... (material *1.4)+(num hours * 40) Then if you ever just need to charge labor then there is no math.
A couple of things to tease out here. 1. The business has to make money. 40% markup is a great and easy starting point for new businesses. 2. This pricing strategy is more of a guideline to get people charging what they’re supposed to - not a perfectly accurate formula. 3. Pricing is ALWAYS arbitrary and I would never need to tell my clients what they’re paying for, other than the deliverable item. That’s all they care about. Lastly, if you’re doing this much math wringing you’re hands about pricing, you’re wasting time that could be used finding customers and making sales 😉. It doesn’t always pay to bean-count.
Dear Lord this video needs to come with a warning! I would say your calculations are at best naive if not dangerously misleading. I don't live in the US but I guess we all have to pay the same to run a business. So let's look at the real world. Income Tax, Business insurance, cost of a vehicle to collect materials and deliver finished pieces, it has to have fuel tax insurance and will surely depreciate over time, utility bills, cost of your premises, machinery cost capital and depreciation, shall, I go on??? Honestly guys you are really cute and the click bait is top notch but you know very little about running a business of any description. Your content leads people to think it's easy and it is simply not true. Your ideas principles and products are suited to people who want to make a bit more from their hobby not people who want to build a prime income from woodworking. Your business practices are lively and well articulated but all your products are copied from other sources and really are not of a very high quality at all. You seem to lack even basic understanding of tools timber and techniques yet you want to stand on a soapbox and proclaim you are the oracle on all things regarding the woodworking industry. Don't want to sound cruel or disrespectful but you really know nothing about woodworking or how to run a successful woodworking business and your audience needs to wise up. Rant over, I'll crawl back under my rock now. Where I will continue to run my modestly successful woodworking business, using the skills and abilities hard won over 40 years.
I agree with most of this apart from one thing that kinda bothered me. She said that...if people don't get what they see on Instagram it's not a big deal, that people expect it to have flaws because it's home made. It depends on how and why they saw it on Instagram, if your company is literally uploading those images of perfect looking joints as part of your marketing and people are ordering based on that...then I disagree, people want what they see in the images when they're buying online, purchases are made on the back of honest and accurate descriptions and images. Not all homemade furniture has flaws or obvious imperfections in the joints, I expect what I see in the pictures or as close to that as is possible. If what I get is of visibly worse quality I'd be unhappy whether it was home made or not. I get that everything will be unique and have very minor flaws but if it's really such a unique selling point then why not highlight this in marketing? Buying online is great, convenient, but businesses need to remember it's not necessarily to the customers benefit all the time. If you had a shop with 3 of the same item, of varying degrees of quality, the better quality ones would be taken first, buying online is actually more of a risk.
Just found your videos, great content.
The point you made on perfectionism hits home as a new woodworker. I was asked to make a keepsake box for a friends fathers ashes.. i made a ton of “rough” furniture, tables chairs etc but never attempted fine wood work. I finished the box and all I saw was the tiny gap in one of the corners but when I gave it to her all she did was glow at how it turned out and was posting pictures all over her social media. I almost told her I couldn’t give it to her because of that corner, she said “what corner?” Lol
Great video! My mistake was a coworker wanted a simple, small and cheap kitchen island. I over complicated the process trying to recycle an old desk and it was taking too long and I ran in to so many problems that she just went out and bought something cheap and didn’t even bother to tell me.
Keep the project simple unless customer requests otherwise. Get it done fast. Prioritize. I’m out on money I spent and have a partially completed small kitchen island that is useless now.
Like you said. KISS. Keep It Short and Sweet. Customers will care about the finished product in their hands, not your journey.
Finish it and post it for sale
That's good stuff. Very important about the difference between "What you make" and "What the business makes" I always looked at it like this, you need to charge for your time and your tools time- as the tools are doing a substantial amount of the work. When your router needs replacing- that tool should have already made enough money to replace itself with a new model of your choice and not come out of your personal checking acct! Very worthwhile video guys- thank you!
"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
Every time I build something, I post the pictures on FB. Recently I built a huge entertainment unit. 13' wide and 8' tall. After I post the photo on FB , people we're surprised that I could build something like that. Then I got a customer that compliment me and gave me a carriage swing to build.
Wow that's awesome! That's definitely NOT been our experience with Facebook. Great job!
Love your take on pricing and anti-perfectionism. Really good concepts and amazing advice for amateurs and pro's alike. I've been a professional fabricator for a long time, and this is the first time I've seen someone explain those two things so well. Kudos!
Thank you very much! Glad you found the video valuable. =)
Mistakes and imperfections in the piece itself gives character. No one else has this piece made exactly as you do. That’s what makes it custom. Keep your mouth shut when the customer is looking at it. You’d be surprised as to how some customers get excited over the look. I had one piece I was cringing over. This was my early days in scroll sawing. This lady just absolutely gushed over this piece. She said it took her breath away. I later kicked myself for not charging more. Lesson learned.
My dad used to tell me dont let perfectin ruin good enough. I also like what ya said about antique furniture there is always a show side and a functional side that isnt as perfect.
Watching through all these at the minute. I’m a full time bench joiner for a company and I’m slowly trying to make my own pieces to pay for tool for my own shop which is also a garage! I’ve even got my own Dobe!
Your comment on tools upgrades and value vs cost to a business was on point. I just bought a track saw (Dewalt with long and short track). 1st cut... Wow.. Why did I wait. Saved so much time and hassle, especially when working solo with full sheets.
My situation changed recently where a job change results in my work hours and any extra I can work being very lucrative. Wood working has become a hobby and a mental break. Now saving time to produce my project is my mental therapy and being efficient is part of that. In a funny way, my efficiency in the shop let's me focus on my real work.
I've just started comparing track saws. How did you decide on the Dewalt?
@@mikesibley9339 honestly because I have all yellow batteries. It just made sense with my systems. I have been impressed with it so far. The pluge system is smooth, I don't what people complain about, maybe because I used this first and I did not get use to the pivoting system.
Unless another brand tool is significantly better I stay with dealt. If I started with Milwaukee or makita, I would say the same thing.
Oh, and I caught a sale through CPO outlets. There were some foreign Australian vids that put the dewalt on top 2nd to the festool. No way I am spending festool cash.
You had me until “you need to get new friends” that’s cold 😂
Seriously though some good advice there :)
I think the tip about not buying pretty premium tools and then spending a lot of time messing around with those or correcting the errors those tools create. I went big when I got my drum sander and I've not regretted the time savings it affords me for a moment.
Thanks dood!
I was told by the man who ran the MWR wood shop at Karlsruhe GE in 1992 that I was the only one that would know where the flaws were in my work. I found that to be true no matter what medium I work in.
So glad I watched this before going back to my project tomorrow to perfect something that was bothering me. That they weren't even going to notice !
Man wish I would have found your chanel a long time ago. You are so helpful for the back porch and side hustle projects. Wish I could share some of my charcuterie boards that have been inspired by your chanel.
Great information to be sharing!!!
When it comes to "friends" and or "family", I honestly trying stirring away from doing business with either one.
If either one still insist upon doing business with me, I'm still straight forward and up front about my prices with them.
Basically meaning, just because they are friends or family, I can't cut my prices for them.
Real friends and family will realize that a business is a business and discounts do not always apply especially when starting out.
Great comment about the invoice on number 2. This is something I have to remind my self constantly.
uz guyz are the best! sry, my Jersey City comes out sometimes but I'm in NC now and a beginner. I'm amazed how much you share to and for others like me. This video has put me months or more ahead of where I would be if that makes sense. I'll be investing in more of your knowledge but I've decided that cash should come from what I've earned - a little self-motivation. I retired w/zilch knowledge of carpentry but good with my hands (I was a Corpsman and could save your life but could not build you a chair). Tired of playing bad golf 5x/week, guess we get tired of anything we do too much. I've started w/beginners stuff, as I should -- Flags, corn hole boards, blanket ladders and looking to move on. In that respect uz guyz have been an unbelievable source of knowledge and truth be told, you've kept me going. I enjoy the work - even hours of sanding, lol. So I'm going to keep at it, learn more, work more, etc... thinking about a farm w/a barn for sale. Many thanks, oh, and I'm not really a bad golfer but it got old taking all my friends money on the course and just buying them a drink afterward. Soon I can take their money and give them something in return, a table, a chair, etc... lol. Won't stop golfing entirely - have too many connections at the country club who will buy furniture from me when the time comes that I'm at that level. I'm not aware of any woodworkers living there but if there are 1 or 2 I'll be better! You've given me so much right down to pricing structure and I am grateful. My Grandmother Gretta, may she rest in peace, would've said you two are as cute as a button. God Bless... that saying never made sense to me, are there cute buttons? I've boored you enough but need to find the video about finding customers and hanging out in different places. The hoity-toity crowd grows lean if you know what I mean. At my age not good w/computers but have lotsa time, I'll find it. The hoity-toity's are my future capital . Stay healthy and safe...
Jennie summed it up with her last statement. This sequel was better than the original. Great tips.
Hahaha thanks!!
-Jennie
You guys are changing lives. Now my personal mentors!
Great advice. I am a slow wood worker. So it's really challenging to put a price for hourly work. I get interrupted often or I have to stop and do other things. I do my best for a whole rate for a project.
The tip about pricing was very helpful. Now that we are making sales my biggest concern was pricing properly and fairly. So I will definitely be using that template to revisit all my builds. Thanks for the video!
Thank you guys for sharing these tips! I look forward to watching more from you guys
I really like your videos. Clear, concise and practical! Keep up the good work.
Thank you, Nick!
"I'm going to quit talking about what I'm going to talk about and just talk about it."
Had me laughing, lol. Thanks for sharing!
Haha yeah Davis has a tendency to ramble. Thanks for watching!
@@jennieanddavis He should have been wearing another certain shirt from Alec Steele. The one that says something about yaks and whacks.
Would recommend to use the following when pricing:
Formula:
Material cost + labour cost = total cost
+
x% of total cost as a safety margin
+
x% markup
= Price
Additionally be mindful that markup does not equal margin (gross margin). Usually, margin % is less than markup %.
Some good tips here for sure. The only one I would add because it is one I am currently going through, is that you sometimes have to work on yourself before you can put your all into your business. You can’t expect it to run at 100% if you aren’t at that either physically or mentally.
Truth! Gotta take care of yourself. Thanks for sharing, dude.
Thank you for the video just found you all excited about it l been woodworking for a while now but definitely wanting to grow more, also like the fact of that studstack you talked about I think it's called, will join so much to learn on how to use social media im a work in progress
You guys are great. Just found you today and this is my 6th video already. Yeah, you are obviously skilled and have a firm grasp on the business, but that double finger gun emoji thing Davis does.... AMAZING!
You mentioned having your customer sign a contract. The word "contract" can be an intimidating term for some people. What does your contract look like, and how do you go about that part of the sale?
If someone is intimidated by a contract, they’re probably not serious about buying. Find someone else... there’s plenty of customers.
Subscribed. Great advice! I'm showing this video to my wife. Wish me luck!!
The way y’all price was awesome, didn’t really know how to go about charging for work done thanks for the great vid!
Glad you liked our method!
My question on that is $30 an hour like a regional price or like a price for building simple things? Would you charge more if you were doing more complex work? Like 30 an hour for cutting boards but more if hand cutting dovetails and doing mortise and tenon joinery versus just using pocket screws.
Provide a quality product or service.
Treat customers with honesty and respect.
Satisfied customers are as important as profit.
I run a small business. I don't advertise but customer word of mouth advertising provides all the work i need.
Great tips! Thanks guys. That bonus tip was killer.
@14:29 "The people you're around right now may not be the ones who have the money to spend on nice furniture, you need to get some new friends" WHAT!?!? lol
You can keep the old ones! And adding some wealthier friends into the mix will help grow your business.
Great video and information. I get a lot of motivation from watching your video’s. On a side note. Where did you get the American flag shirt.
Great advise for any craftsperson-thank you!
Very good bonus tip!!!
That thing you was saying about perfection. Surely if your business are make top end market handmade leather purses etc. Wouldn’t you want everyone of them to be perfect. Otherwise your products won’t be top end.
Still a good video👍👍
This is advice for woodworking mate. Making leather purses vs working with wood are 2 different specialties. You can get away with much more in a wood project, because it'll still hold up vs. a purse with missed stitches. I guarantee you that top end wood workers make mistakes, they just know how to cover them up better and have a higher price to allow that time for cover up.
Not to mention that high end purses do have flaws. There are hidden truths behind seams and many imperfections actually make no difference in quality. Stitches show, but a tiny difference in fabric width on each side of a purse would be unnoticed. They didn't say to make it sloppy, but know what tolerances are workable. Fabric (and leather) are very flexible making an eighth inch unnoticed. Wood is slightly flexible so has less tolerance but still has room to forgive. Metals often need perfection down to thousandths of an inch. Of course the equipment used in each of these crafts are designed to achieve these needs.
chlupl you wonder why people pay a high end price for something that might have flaws
@@taffythegreat1986 There is a difference between sloppy and not perfect. Stuff at Wal-Mart us often sloppy. It's also not custom and won't last. Wood costs more then particle board and hard wood costs even more.. When you start asking for specialty woods, materials get even higher. I won't pay $5 for a pen but I sell $75 and up pens with custom designs and details. I'm not my customer, though. There are many reasons to buy high end (lasts longer, custom or niche, made with passion or piece of art, supports local, ability to get addition pieces that will match and fit needs, and more.)
Again.. I'm a perfectionist and a craftsman. I notice every detail, but most people simply don't. They definitely notice sloppy, though. If I don't stop myself, I will end up in tears on little projects after 20th attempts and 100 hours or more on tiny details. I know I will never get perfect as I'm an imperfect being working with imperfect materials, in an imperfect world. I must settle for close to perfect and high quality.
You two are fun. Very informative too. I suffer from perfectionism, but as long as I remember that pobody is nerfect, I can move on and just do my best each time. Keep up the good work. Btw, I have wanted to shut my business down before because I had a long run of customers that were unreasonable. You mentioned not to blame the customer, but when you've been doing the same thing for 22 years, it's not hard to recognize when the customers truly are being unreasonable. They are out there, and I got 4 in a row, which with my volume of production took up 4 months. In my efforts to give my customers to a friend with his own shop, I received love and support from dozens of old customers who refused to have anyone but me do their work They seriously would not hire my friend. It was so touching that I couldn't say no. Anyway, I ramble. Be well you two! Can I pretty please ask you to take a look at my channel?
What kind of contract do you use, I make furniture as well but I wouldn’t know where to find one
Great addictive ❤️Yee are smart !,great vid. The more I watch Yee the more I love Yee. Great advice yess great advice ❤️❤️❤️🇮🇪🇮🇪
Antique joints may be loose because they are old... worn out, But they still are often repairable due to the original craftsmanship, unlike a lot of new pieces.
Only aim for perfection if you own it. Customers are happy with a neat and professional job, nut it does not need to be perfect
not good
but great info on moving the businesses foreword,
been taking nots to study and apply them,
I have a question, if the I told the customer before hand that I'm a beginner and they still said no problem but later they come back with a complain,
should I fix the issue with or without extra charge?
thnx a bunch for the informative videos.
Very helpful! Thank you.
What if the (material + labor)x 1.4 is overprice than what market price sell ? This is what I frustrated for me, I'm beginner for woodworking. Only use some weekend day to build a 1 piece furniture ? And I'm lack of power tools too 😭😭 any suggestion ?
Nice video as always. Keep it up .
Top tips this guy's Give 👍
like everyother video ya'll do this is awesome and you have helped me restructure my pricing to make my business more effective.
Would it be possible to see a sample invoice that you would present a customer?
Thank you for your help and insight.
-Robby
Great video. Your a great team.
Thank you!
What do you do when the client looses their minds about a quote? I gave a returning client a quote for a prep table for her energy tea business that would pass a health inspection of $2500. She said there's no way it would cost that much and she wouldn't pay more than $800, which just so happened to be the cost of materials. The rest was labor, it was a huge prep table over 8 feet long. We didn't give her an itemized quote which would have detailed the labor and material costs (should we have?). Since then we've had no business and we've lost her as return customer. Business has been bad since then. What is your advice on a situation like this? Eat the cost to keep the customer or tell her to kick rocks because she gets what she pays for? Thanks in advance.
How much, if any, of a down payment do you guys suggest taking on a project? And do you suggest starting out with contracts or just trying to keep it old fashioned with partial payment (when it's agreed on, the rest when it's delivered) and a handshake like people around my town do?
Handshake is fine, but I still send an email or written record of the job just so I have something to point to if it goes wrong. Bigger projects for private individuals ($1500+) we do 50% down, 50% on delivery.
I´s all relative.
If you are in a segment selling luxury design, you need to achieve, not aim, achieve perfect finishes.
Quality level always depends on your target clients, you can´t just move on with good enough with all :>
You guy's make some very good points thanks
Thanks, Mark! Glad you liked the video
@@jennieanddavis 👍
Hi jenny and davis,
With my business Trinity Woods ive being started a horeca line. What is the best way to sell/ introduce my handcrafted products to restaurants?
Talk to as many people as possible.
Great video! At what point to you go from someone asking you to make something for them, to making them sign a contract? - on that, can you please share what the contract includes?
Also wondering how you find contract work / get in contact with a business (such as a cafe) to build furniture for them?
We try to close everything in the same conversation. Don't let time pass between the idea and their commitment to buy. Usually after the conversation where we close we immediately send a contract which is just a loose agreement on what the project will entail and an expected price.
Love the tips, and love the Alec Steele shirt
Thanks!!
Do you guys have a video where you go through what you put on an invoice? Do you have a sample invoice? ThAnks
Nope. We just use quickbooks and they automatically generate invoices
@@jennieanddavis Thank you - follow-up question: Which items do you show on your invoice? I have been putting materials, labor and "Service and Tools Fee" which accounts for my markup.
Nope. Just final price and any credits for prepayment. Itemizing just gives the customer more opportunity to dislike something. More streamlined = fewer questions
Substandard tools are a killer. I have JPW on speed dial....and my wife hates that. Lol
11:40 nr 5/8 ^^
Great tips ;)
Only perfection leaves my shop but because all my full dovetails are perfect and my finishes are stunning I can charge anything I feel. If i made corn hole games it’s different set standards to launch your business into where you want to be. Just never let that standard slip because you will spend the next five years overcoming that one flaw that you could have corrected in 5 hours. When you think of Rolls Royce you don’t picture a chevy in your head. Keep that expectation of excellence alive in customers by feeding them consistently the best quality. We build hand made things so does Rolls Royce and Rolex we are better and it is expected to be better, last longer be more creative. If you are just knocking stuff out save your hands and back and order it from china by the boatload make your slim profit. Nothing wrong with that. But if you want to make something then take the time and build a treasure that will last even when that thing is gone. People don’t forget beautiful objects, ever.
Your math is wrong. If you only want a 40 percent markup, then multiply cost times 1.40.
If you want to make 40 percent profit then take your cost and then divide that by .6.
For example $100 times 1.4 equals $140
Now if you want to make 40 percent then take $100 and divide by .6. Your actual selling price is $166.66. That is a true 40 percent profit.
Great tips
Thanks!
nice tips:)
30 dollars per hour is only a 60K a year job? Can you explain how you can earn a better living than just above the US Median household income? A lot of You Tubers are explaining streams of income.
Bruh! I have that same Alec Steele shirt!
It's too small now... I wish I could get it again in a larger size
I spy an Alec Steele shirt!
I’m running into lot of people want oak walnut maple but don’t want to pay the price.
Time to search for some new people!
you guys make so much sense. it might all sound simple but it needs to be said. great tips guys.
Can't make assembly line, CNC quality with a miter saw and a Dremel, people. But, if you're like me, that doesn't stop you from trying! 😁
"Perfect ikea forniture" LOL...
Why at 11:40 when Davis say number 5 it shows up with 8?
Because some men just want to watch the world burn
So you back stepped on being sponsored that is why I liked your channel no commercial to fast forwarded. Why did u give in to it.
We’ve always said we would not take TOOL sponsors! If you want us to go add free, we would need our patreon to explode!
Nothing is ever free. I’m sorry our 50+ non-sponsored videos weren’t enough for you.
Double Like
"Perfection" is the wood. If the customer wants "no flaws" buy plastic. Flaws are "character" and value of heirloom pieces. Not all customers get it, so they are not your customers.....Go to Walmart..........Cheers Jeff
Seriously? This is nothing like Nike or Apple. Example... Nike's $300 shoe cost $9 to make and they sell millions.
An answer to #2 - a quote I've come to live by... Perfection is the enemy of Excellence.....
Yessssss
I thought you all moved?
Stocked up on videos before we packed up 😉
Here's one: Don't be a douchebag to your customers. As a customer to some businesses near me, I'm always amazed at how I get treated, for no reason... (I'm not at all rude or demanding)
Seriously! I've been to 2 small local vacuum stores and both times they treated me condescendingly when I inquired about parts I was looking for.
I can kinda understand when it's an hourly employee/staff (they basically don't care if you never came back) but to see the store owners drive business away so nonchalantly is astonishing.
Here's another (on a related note): Be VERY careful who fronts your business. I know so many businesses that have sour/rude people in a customer-facing role. Big mistake. A few times, I've vowed to NEVER return because of rude or dismissive staff. Take complaints seriously if a customer complains about staff treating them badly....if it's multiple complaints, then you have a problem staff member...they will lose you a LOT of business. Yes, even dismissive type staff. E.g. a customer is waiting to order and a young staff member is talking to her friend or on her phone...see the customer and ignores them...and then has an attitude that makes the customer feel like they are a nuisance for just wanting to place an order...I've seen it many times
Fool don't learn, smart learn from his own mistakes, genius learn from others and that is rear
With inflation, are you still thinking 40%?
If your friends are those who can bring you guys money... hummm This is very bad. You will never have real friends. You guys are not making money with woodwork, just with internet, youtube, "courses", etc. Sorry, I'm just realistic.
You're wrong, friend. We have tons of friends and the furniture we've built them has actually made us closer. Learn more about someone's situation before you start throwing judgment.
Why do you have a labor cost and then mark it up?
If a client asks how much labor is and you say $40 an hour, but you did (materials + $40) * 1.4 then they are paying MORE than $40 for labor.
You math really should be ...
(material *1.4)+(num hours * 40)
Then if you ever just need to charge labor then there is no math.
A couple of things to tease out here. 1. The business has to make money. 40% markup is a great and easy starting point for new businesses. 2. This pricing strategy is more of a guideline to get people charging what they’re supposed to - not a perfectly accurate formula. 3. Pricing is ALWAYS arbitrary and I would never need to tell my clients what they’re paying for, other than the deliverable item. That’s all they care about. Lastly, if you’re doing this much math wringing you’re hands about pricing, you’re wasting time that could be used finding customers and making sales 😉. It doesn’t always pay to bean-count.
Buy expensive tools he says standing in front of an $80 drill press
Downvote for in-vid ad
Your refund for this video is in the mail
I have never been to a McDonald's that was consistent. Just saying...don't be like McDonald's. ;)
I’m sorry, what business do you operate which has earned more money, provided more jobs, or benefited humanity more than McD’s?
@@jennieanddavis It was a joke. McDonald's never gets an order right. Sheesh.
Dear Lord this video needs to come with a warning!
I would say your calculations are at best naive if not dangerously misleading.
I don't live in the US but I guess we all have to pay the same to run a business. So let's look at the real world. Income Tax, Business insurance, cost of a vehicle to collect materials and deliver finished pieces, it has to have fuel tax insurance and will surely depreciate over time, utility bills, cost of your premises, machinery cost capital and depreciation, shall, I go on??? Honestly guys you are really cute and the click bait is top notch but you know very little about running a business of any description.
Your content leads people to think it's easy and it is simply not true.
Your ideas principles and products are suited to people who want to make a bit more from their hobby not people who want to build a prime income from woodworking. Your business practices are lively and well articulated but all your products are copied from other sources and really are not of a very high quality at all. You seem to lack even basic understanding of tools timber and techniques yet you want to stand on a soapbox and proclaim you are the oracle on all things regarding the woodworking industry.
Don't want to sound cruel or disrespectful but you really know nothing about woodworking or how to run a successful woodworking business and your audience needs to wise up.
Rant over, I'll crawl back under my rock now. Where I will continue to run my modestly successful woodworking business, using the skills and abilities hard won over 40 years.
I agree with most of this apart from one thing that kinda bothered me.
She said that...if people don't get what they see on Instagram it's not a big deal, that people expect it to have flaws because it's home made.
It depends on how and why they saw it on Instagram, if your company is literally uploading those images of perfect looking joints as part of your marketing and people are ordering based on that...then I disagree, people want what they see in the images when they're buying online, purchases are made on the back of honest and accurate descriptions and images.
Not all homemade furniture has flaws or obvious imperfections in the joints, I expect what I see in the pictures or as close to that as is possible. If what I get is of visibly worse quality I'd be unhappy whether it was home made or not. I get that everything will be unique and have very minor flaws but if it's really such a unique selling point then why not highlight this in marketing?
Buying online is great, convenient, but businesses need to remember it's not necessarily to the customers benefit all the time. If you had a shop with 3 of the same item, of varying degrees of quality, the better quality ones would be taken first, buying online is actually more of a risk.
Great addictive ❤️Yee are smart !,great vid. The more I watch Yee the more I love Yee. Great advice yess great advice ❤️❤️❤️🇮🇪🇮🇪