Daenerys Targaryen’s Evil Advisors in the Winds of Winter (ASOIAF Theory)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- Hello everyone! Today I'm discussing Daenerys future in #asoiaf and how her advisors may have an impact on her trajectory.
Be sure to subscribe if you enjoyed this video! What do you think? Is there anything I missed? What do you think of #houseofthedragon so far? More #asongoficeandfire content is on the way!
Thank you all for watching! I'll be back with more theories next week! Character art in this video is by TheMico! Art in the thumbnail is by Conor Burke (Victarion art) and Bella Bergoits (Tyrion art).
My Twitter: / quinnthegm
00:00 An Awful Twist
01:14 Book Trajectory
01:47 Capable, Terrifying Advisors
02:35 Not Long for This World
03:37 The Bear
04:28 Dany's Future Husband
05:47 A Conspiracy Theorist
07:14 The Biggest, Baddest Influence
08:38 Daenerys Herself
09:01 Fire and Blood
09:39 Burnt Bones and a Name
10:34 Difference In Opposition
11:25 Conclusions - บันเทิง
Jorah "where my hug at" Mormont is the funniest shit I've ever heard
Bro walks up to Daenerys and says "huggies?"
Have you ever been down so bad you kidnapped a noseless midget
@@willbeard4835 Asking for huggies from 14 year old Dany and he's like 50+ 💀
@@ranfan1820That's Jorah for you
the fact that jorah's actor in the show is at least somewhat attractive is the only reason anybody likes him
jorah in the books is literally the most disgusting character ever. old ass ugly slave owner salivating over a 14 year old girl
she should get rid of her advisors and only listen to Azor Ahai, Ser Pounce, the only one capable of guiding this kingdom
The Pounce who was promised
What about balerion 😂 he’s a very slick one when it comes to getting revenge
Dick Crabbe be Azor Ahai just see if he ain't. The Dick that be promised. He's also returning as a revenge zombie named StoneDick.
Marwyn “Summerhall was an Inside Job” Themage being on Danys’ side is still such a funny thing to think about for me. I’m imagining a war council being convened and him
chiming in at points with crackpot theories like how the Maesters are gonna try and turn her dragons gay
Marwyn could be their version of Alex Jones
"The water in the Blackwater Rush is turning the frickin' dragons gay!"
*this is not to be taken seriously TH-cam admins
"I can't wait to see the interactions between Victarion and Daenerys. Can you imagine Victarion trying to rizz up Dany? Like, 'Hey baby! I heard you hate slavery, as it happens, me too. We have so much in common, haha!'"
"So do you want me to show you my collection of the skulls of my enemies?"
"My greatest joy is to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and hear the lamentations of their women."
"You like burning people? I like burning people too? We're meant for each other, truly."
--- Greyjoy pickup lines, 300 AC
@@KaiHung-wv3ul except dany doesn't like burning people
@@Aydan2108 Yeah, of course, which is why she'll take it poorly.
Personally I think she will be a lot more receptive to him than people think. Going off Drogo and Daario, Victarion seems to be her type.
He will certainly "rizz" on something
Elsewhere someone commented how Dany might hate seeing Young Griff being honored among the Westerosi in the same way Viserys hated seeing Dany being honored among the Dothraki. I thought that was a nice parallel.
Is she viserys?
No. Daenerys is not her brother. However, he raised her. She gets the notion that the Iron Throne is her birthright from him. He visits her in a dream sequence in her last chapter of A Dance with Dragons.
@@laurashortill8623 literally for most of her life dany didn't believe the throne was her birthright, and even if she did, there is nothing wrong with that, everybody is entitled in the story.
I didn’t say there was anything wrong with Dany thinking the Iron Throne was her birthright. I pointed out that no she’s not her brother, but yes, her brother raised her and taught her some things that shaped her worldview.
I think Tyrion will figure out Young Griff being a Blackfyre and will tell Daenerys about it. Just to watch King's Landing burn.
Well, GRRM did say that Tyrion was a villain.
I think we'll never know if Young Griff is a Targaryen, a Blackfyre, or a boy with Valyrian features, but theories will abound & characters will act according to what they believe.
All that to say that I totally agree with you.
Well if Illyrio really has Blackfyre and gives it to Griff, it's a pretty big clue.
Tyrion already possibly started the second dance of the dragons just by advicing Aegon to go west and not to Meereen. We will see the consequences of this little act down the line.
I think most theories are that it is young Griff's mother that is a Blackfyre and she maybe related to Varys ( he was used in a sacrifice and likely has royal blood). And I absolutely believe Tyrion has figured it out. He has seen the presents Illyrio brought young Griff and heard the way he talks about him. And the statue of Illyrio as a young Braavos. Tyrion figured out who Griff was supposed to be which was the harder riddle than who he really is. Griff is literally coming back to Westeros with the Golden Company.
Yeah I kind of like that the second DOD is started by Tyrion trolling just to eff around with someone because he’s bored. Seems like a legit author commentary right there on the nature of war.
My favourite description of Daenerys’s turn in the Game of Thrones show is “she turned evil in the pre-episode catch up"
show turned into fan fiction. Arya will have zero to do with white walkers nothing. dany wont turn bad. thats bad fan fiction.
"Dany kind of, uh, forget everything she believed and stood for."
@@JosephHandibode Dany will almost certainly turn bad
Great video Quinn! Also Jorah "Where my hug at" Mormont is the funniest line I have heard in a long time. Congrats on finishing your first year of law school!
Damn bro, that desert essentials of Fire and Blood section slapped, great wording
I think Tyrion's outlook shows that he's divorced himself from being "Tywin writ small". Tywin's identity was tied up in his house. That enabled him to take a more, "It's not personal. It's just business." attitude. Attacks on him were attacks on the power and prestige of his house. He acted on that basis.
This whole thing is personal with Tyrion. He's more or less abandoned the advice he once gave Jon Snow. He's been slighted as a person and he wants revenge on everyone he thinks owes him. That is pretty much everyone in King's Landing.
So you think he will convince dany to burn it?💀
its fucking wild how many different ways it feels like Danys story could go.
Nope, her haters have closed minds, and they can't think of any other theory other than "Mad kween 🤓"
@@Aydan2108it’s really annoying and sexist that they want her to end up in that situation because they hate her character
@@ACinemafanatic exactly, I'm so tired of it, Dany antis have this theory-making laziness, and they only think of one theory for Dany and nothing else, it's always she will go crazy and die, that's it, no other possibility, it set in stone in their tiny brains.
I have been rereading GoT and some throwaway line caught my attention. Illyrio claims the Dragon Eggs he gives Dany were from Asshai. On first read you hear spooky shadow land and think nothing of it.
But nearing the end of the book, Mirri Maz Duur shows up. She gains Dany's trust, kills the man who abused her and then died so that Dany's dragons could be born.
Then a book later and a magic woman appears who is also from Asshai and suggests she has at least known of Dany.
This same woman then uses magic to sway and push Dany in certain directions, showing up at or before key moments. Even showing up at the very end of Dance to tell Dany something important and remind her of why she is surviving.
The spesific legend of Azor Ahai has it's origins in Asshai. Dragons are said to be from Asshai. There is said to be Dragons in the mountains by Asshai.
Magic is returning to the world as Dany's dragons are born at the exact time when the Others are making big moves. Asshai is the capital of spooky magic.
This isn't even mentioning the Red Priests in Essos that are all in on Dany being Azor Ahai. And we know where some of the Red Priests learned their magic.
It would also partly explain Euron's obsession with Dany. Yes she has Dragons, but if Asshai have a grand plot to make Dany this prophecied figure, and Euron has been to Asshai...
Honestly, i am sad we will never see Asshai in the main series if ever. Hopefully Mel has a flashback of some sort to it in her pov chapters.
Anyways, this theory definitely could go much deeper. I'm sure someone has done something similar. But i am too busy with school to dig any deeper
The dragons were a clutch of virmathor I believe and were stored in bravos since jaeherys’ rule
@@Ironcorgi2nah they were Dreamfyre’s eggs
One of my most anticipated character convergences is Dany/Tyrion/Marwen. I can't even imagine what exactly the meeting of Dany and Marwen or how he and Tyrion will react to each other. Oh wait, freaking Victarion, I knew I was forgetting someone. Seriously, can anyone predict how these POVs are going to go and what those interactions will be like?
I think her destroying kings landing will be somewhat accidental. I think she’s going to burn the red keep with Aegon inside, setting off a chain reaction of wildfire set by Cersei destroying the city
I really hope Quathe gets a more prominant role in tWoW. It would be interesting to see Danys small counsil consist of three magic users (Moqorro, Marwyn and Quaithe), and How it Would mirror her father almost exclusively taking advice from the pyromancers in his later reign.
Nah, advisors won't change Dany's heart. She started with Viserys, Illyrio, and Drogo. By comparison, they make Jorah, Mirri Maz Duur, Quaithe, Pyat Pree, and Xaro Xhoan Daxos look not even all that sketchy. Nor Daario Naharis, Brown Ben Plumm, Reznak mo Reznak, Skahaz mo Kandaq, Hizdahr zo Loraq, or Galazza Galare.
Dany has kept her compassion the whole time. She forgot Hazzea's name (which upsets her), but not her complicity in the child's death. Her advisors constantly tell her to abandon her freedmen, ignore or give in to slavers, banish sick refugees, focus on conquering Westeros, etc. Dany always chooses to help the helpless, to the extent that she can.
If anyone can make her ruthless, it's Drogon. But if Viserys, Illyrio, and Drogo couldn't make Dany evil, nothing will.
Finally someone with a brain!!!
great point! I don't think she'll ever actually be evil, but history will definitely remember her as such. if KL burns, it'll be JonCon, or Tyrion not giving her key info about it being there. her grief will drive her north to (hopefully not, but possibly) sacrifice herself to end the long night
Adding to Dany's issues is that in addition to being a corrupting influence, her party is slowly morphing into the worst possible first impression to make. She has a bunch of Dothraki riders who are feared, three giant ass dragons that are going to incite even more fear, she is the daughter of the mad king, has Unsullied who definitely raise some eyebrows as a slave army (we know they follow her willingly but its not hard to frame her as having a slave army at her disposal), has an ironborn reaver as her master of ships, a guy who's most infamous for selling people into slavery in Jorah, someone seen as a kinslayer and a kingslayer in Tyrion, a disgraced Maester, and if everything goes well Barristan who's image is doing a lot of heavy lifting for Dany PR wise for the Westerosi. She somehow will come to Westeros with worse PR than Stannis who has a priestess who does human sacrifices. It won't be hard for people to turn the lords and smallfolk against Dany when she arrives because she essentially created a host out of their nightmares.
Yup one thing the show actually got right. Only the people who wanted revenge joined her. The iron bank will definitely be against her as well
I dont think GRRM will be all that interested in a fight between "villains" and "good guys", but between complex characters with realistic but contradictory motivations. Dany will not do a 180 and just go "mad" or "villainous", but will rather build on who she is and come into conflict with other characters that also have reasonable agendas from their point of view.
What I really can’t wait for is when she visits kings landing. I can’t remember which chapter but there’s one moment she romanticizes the lands of Westeros. After having seen cities like Pentos, Quarth, and Meereen, to then see the most disgusting city in Westeros founded by her ancestors, is going to be a culture shock.
I think Dany will get framed as a villain just to to who her dad was, and any attack by her setting off the Wildfire.
How is that gonna serve the plot in any way?
@@Aydan2108
Setting her up as a villain in the eyes of the public, regardless of the truth
@@davidnorris1064 Yes but tell me how is that gonna be good writing for her character or story otherwise,
@@Aydan2108 It will make the conquest of the 7 kingdoms much harder. She won't have a support base like the one she had in Slaver's bay. A real test of character, for better or worse.
@alex52043 I hope not, because if the starks are gonna have no challenge and all of the northern houses would fight with them and accept them, then he should do the same with dany.
I think Danaerys's story will parallel Jon's in a lot of ways. And so I think both will have a point where they will do something morally questionable but understandable and then a point where they would cross the "moral event horizon" so to speak. Both have two contrasting ideals of their selfish wants (the Iron Throne for Dany and Winterfell for Jon) and noble goal (liberating the slaves for Dany and fighting against the Others for Jon).
Thus I think these two characters will be set up to contrast with each other, but while both could "turn evil", Danaerys's bad influences and shift towards "Fire and Blood" makes it more likely for her in my opinion.
Danny already did this when she crucified 400ish people
@@mementomori771 163, you added a couple more there. Also, it's slavers, they crucified children just to mock Dany, I wouldn't say it's as crazy as many might think, and even in the books nobody chastises her for this, most lords in Westeros do worse shit all the time and no one calls them crazy or evil.
@@Viffido "most lords in Westeros do worse shit all the time and no one calls them crazy or evil"
Sure, no one in Westeros ever calls Roose Bolton or Tywin Lannister or Walder Frey evil. They can do the most evil things and everyone just shrugs. It's only Dany people ever get upset over.
@@frankvandorp2059 I don't see anyone calling Randyll Tarly evil for publicly mutilating prostitutes for having STDs.
Even Roose is not so disliked, Ramsey is but Ramsey is an extreme case. Point is Dany is measured differently than most Westerosi lords. Aegon is seen as a cool dude for burning Harremhal while Dany is seen as cruel for crucifying slavers.
@@frankvandorp2059 Walder Frey is hated for breaking an ancient sacred custom, not necessarily for killing people. And again, her followers don't think much of Dany's decision to crucify the masters, even Barristan is only concerned in the show, in the books he's ok with it and when we read his POV chapters he admires Dany and thinks she's good. The fandom put too much weight on the crucifixion of the masters, which although it was a harsh thing to do, in their society is really not as big a deal as some people claim it is.
I'd say Jorah's influence will probably come after arriving in Westeros. His father gave the family sword to Jon Snow, essentially calling him his heir. Of course, by this point Jeor was more a brother of the Watch than a member of House Mormont. However, that still may not sit well with Jorah.
Come to think of it, Dany already has been influenced by a lot of “baddies.” Raised by Viserys, foolish petty violent abuser. Married to Drogo, a super killer in a violent culture. Cozied up to Darrio, violent mercenary.
Something that annoys me about Dany X is that people always ALWAYS ignore that Dany is shitting because she clearly caught the grey mare, which is basically just dysentery. This is because earlier in ADWD Dany tries to play Jesus by going out and helping the plague victims herself, ignoring her advisors. Everyone ignores this and the repercussions it will cause. Dany brought the plague into Meereen itself. Any Dothraki horde that approaches Dany risks getting destroyed by the plague since Dany is now a vector.
What annoys me about Dany X, is that the chapter effectively describes Daenerys making the most important decision of her life, Daenerys finally bonding with her dragon as a direct result of this choice, and people somehow miss all that and think it's an irrelevant chapter about poop.
She didn't bring the plague and she wasn't trying to play Jesus, what book have you been reading?💀
@frankvandorp2059 what annoys me is that people like you think she will go mad queen because she doesn't want to have peace with slavers anymore.
@@Aydan2108 I said none of those things. What a dumb comment.
@@Aydan2108 What annoys me is that people like you will pretend I say something I never said, just because you lack the intelligence to understand basic English sentences.
Something I feel people forget about Daenerys is that she _is_ capable of doing horrible things, and we've seen her do so. Either during or after her conquest of Slaver's Bay, she had a number of the old, rich nobles crucified in exactly the same way they'd done to a number of slaves earlier in the conflict. I'm not saying they were innocent by any means, but that's a prime example of Dany engaging in the kind of harsh action the Targaryens are feared for.
And, while the show _absolutely_ dropped the ball on this, I do thing Tyrion's explanation at the end works - when you keep telling someone that they're the hero, that any villainous act they take or order is justified, eventually they might start to think that _any_ action they take is correct or justified, no matter how horrible. If the show runners had maybe bothered to actually foreshadow that, maybe the show's ending would have been better received.
Well she took them down in the books because she felt bad she actually asked the slaves who they want to see crucified and she puts them up but took them down as she wanted peace to be restored
What are you on about?💀
I think Vic died in Dance. He's just too dumb to know it.
Too stubborn to lose, too dumb to die
The Bells could indicate that in the books it will be JonCon who will be burning King's Landing down as a result of his Stony Sept ptsd.
But of course FAegon beign Dany's opponent instead of Cersei probably does make Dany being more cruel more believable.
Plus he has greyscale so he might be going insane and he’s spreading it wherever he goes. He’s still salty about the battle of the bells so I can see him having ptsd about it and triggering a wildfire outbreak somehow
It doesn't, it's bad writing is she burned Kingslanding
I don't think Dany will ever go full Mad Queen, but I do think she will become more ruthless and will do things that could be used against her by being described as "mad".
"Dany will go mad" and "Westerosi historians will remember Dany as the Mad Queen" are two very different things. George is a historian and he loves to play with the whole "what official histories say vs. what really happened" trope.
@@frankvandorp2059 how is that good writing?
@@Aydan2108 It's not George's fault if you are too shallow to recognize good writing.
@@frankvandorp2059 that's why I said tell me how it's good writing, or do are just one of those "omg, good turn bad, so interesting 🤓"
@@Aydan2108 I literally just made the argument that Dany does not NEED to "turn bad" or "go mad" for her to be remembered as the "Mad Queen". Seriously, how is this going over your head? It's really not that complicated.
Strong Belwas is the smartest man in Meereen
Hell yes, I've been thinking this for ages. Great to hear your take on it
Good Points, good Video, thanks for sharing and creating it.
Am I the only one who thinks Marwyn looks like a medieval Frank Reynolds from "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia?"
I think what would be most interesting is if dany used her dragons to bring an end to feudalism and force a constitutional monarchy. This would definitely get her to be viewed as “evil” by the lords but not in a way the reader would perceive as evil
I tend to think of Daenerys sudden turn to "madness" as the worst plot beat in the entire series, but then I remember they ended the entire overarching white walker/winter plot, the core of the entire series, by having Arya stab it.
Exactly its such bad writing it was just fan service and subverting expectations it’s just stupid how fans justify that ending and danys mad turn due to things she did but certain things she did weren’t even in the books the writers just didn’t know where to take any of the characters and just ended it just so they can do Star Wars
I would agree with you entirely, not just about the tragedy that was Game of Thrones, but also Dany’s arc going forward. It seems likely to me that her whole deal in Winds will be allowing her darker impulses to drive her, and pushing aside her desire for peace.
I think it’s very important to consider the themes of her character and where her arc might be headed when considering her place in the story. She will certainly be surrounded be a large number of bad influences, and I am beyond certain this, combined with her newfound uncompromising attitude, will ultimately lead to tragedy and destruction (probably in King’s Landing).
My personal thought is that her character will be far more nuanced than the show, and while King’s Landing will probably burn, it will not be the same ridiculous way it was in the show. A central motif of her character is the house with the red door (something the show didn’t touch on), and this vision of hers has been present since book one. In short, above all else (even the throne), she wishes for home.
While I think Winds will take her down a dark path that culminates with the destruction of King’s Landing, I certainly don’t think that will be the end of her arc. In a meta sense, that just isn’t narratively compelling. Rather, I would guess she will walk through the ruins of the city and be forced to come to terms with her actions in a very brutal way.
Perhaps in the end, she will redeem herself in some grand action against the Others. In the end, she wants home most of all, and I think that will be what drives her to redemption (in whatever manner that comes).
I agree I hate what the show did to her but she will be ruthless and use fire and blood in probably Vaes Dothrak to stop slavery and also protect her people because Quaithe did say she must “pass the shadow “
Dude.... THANK YOU. I have all the books on Kindle and I'm always rereading these chapters and the complexities of Mereen politics confuses the hell out me. Its like I need a chart or something and the World of Ice and Fire doesn't explain too much. Government and Politics of Essos 101 would be a great help
A Dany prediction for TWOW video?
Subscribed.
I'm something of a Jorah apologist but even I was cracking up with the Jorah "where my hug at" Mormont line. He really is *that* guy who's like 45 but wears monster energy flat brim hats and red and white flannel hoodies
I tend to agree with David Lightbringer about Daenerys. He did some in-depth podcasts following GOT Season 8, covering each book and going through her chapters methodically to analyze her character. He also did one Who is the Real Daenerys compilation video and another fantastic video about George’s inspiration for Daenerys coming from Indian mythology and folklore. I highly recommend checking out his Daenerys playlist. I know that this doesn’t necessarily prove what will happen in Winds and beyond. I do expect Daenerys to have a dark turn for a quite a while. Her journey to Westeros, most likely through Volantis and Pentos, is likely to be very bloody. And then there will be whatever happens between her and fAegon. But I tend to think that her ultimate purpose is going to be the freeing of the Wights from their eternal servitude to the Others. Freeing those in slavery has been such a significant part of her story arc since the beginning. I believe that whatever happens between her and fAegon is going to result in a major disaster for King’s Landing. I expect that the people of Westeros will likely consider her to be her father’s daughter. But I still expect in the end, she will sacrifice herself in some act to free the undead. And she probably will not be recognized as a hero for her actions, even though I think she will be. I accept that I could be totally wrong about where her story is headed. But at this time, I feel pretty confident about it based upon her story so far, where she seems to be going and what the story needs to deal with. The Iron Throne is a false prize. Getting it back was her brother Viserys’ dream. Danearys wants family and belonging. And she wants to be a hero. The Iron Throne will give her none of that.
Exactly like the one ring it’s merely the object of power and desire but it corrupts you and makes you lose sight of what’s truly important I feel like danys love for her people will snap her out of that goal for the iron throne meanwhile Faegon and Cersei will die before letting anybody else take that throne especially since Faegon in the books doesn’t even care to help Dany and is very arrogant but he’s also proven he’s not capable of ruling and he’s just a pawn in all this Dany however might be the one to destroy the throne
Now tell me how is that gonna serve the story?
@@Aydan2108 Why wouldn’t it? One of the major issues of the story is that there is an existential crisis facing mankind. And all the fighting of wars over the Iron Throne are diminishing man’s capacity to fight the greater threat. Danearys is currently caught in that cycle of chasing a false prize. The cycle of death and life need to be restored. Martin has said that there is a reason that the seasons don’t function in a natural cycle. Nature is out of balance on this planet. I don’t know what specifically needs to happen to fix this. But it seems highly likely that Daenerys’ dragons will play an important role and that it will result in a resolution of what is causing the imbalance. Daenerys’ obsession with freeing people in bondage is much more in line with whatever her ultimate role in that solution is than her desire for the Iron Throne IMO. Especially as the wights, under the influence of the Others, are one of the things that is resulting from the imbalance in nature. I fully expect that magic will be eliminated either totally, or in a very large degree by the end of the story. And the seasons will return to a regular cycle, along with the end of any resurrections of the dead. I expect that Daenerys and her dragons have a major role to play in creating this end, along with other characters. But I don’t think people will widely know about whatever self-sacrificial role she plays. I highly expect she will be seen as a villain but actually do something heroic. This is all based on where I have seen the story going and I know there is a segment of the ASOIAF fan base that agrees. Again, I would refer you to David Lightbringer’s videos on Daenerys. But who knows? Maybe I’m totally wrong and she will become the mad queen and just burn everything down the way she did on the television show. But somehow I don’t think that is the story Martin is telling.
@@blackeyedlily Does Dany know about the white walkers and is doing nothing?, and how is dany obsessed with freeing people?, and the Mad queen dany theory is just d*mb, and just misogynistic and it's also bad writing, because it's like GRRM thinking that: "in this very patriarchal society, let me turn the two main female rulers (Cercei and dany) into crazy b*tches that need to be put down by their rational male lovers, that will definitely make patriarchy less worse", it's stupid.
GRRM has said that he is a feminist, and he criticizes a lot of systems, and one of them is patriarchy, how is he gonna do that when he writes both of his main female rulers as crazy incompetent rulers who can't handle power and will be ended by men, This is true of GRRM’s main characters - they are all viewed a certain way by Westerosi society and their story is to overcome that and show society that no, they are not what society expects them to be. Jon is constantly perceived a certain way because he’s a b*stard and hence deceitful and untrustworthy. His bastardy defines a big part of his story. Arya is perceived a certain way because she does not conform to how society thinks women should be. Tyrion is seen a certain way because he’s a dwarf. Bran is seen a certain way because he’s a cripple. Dany is seen a certain way because she’s the exiled mad King’s daughter, who is Also a girl (so she is seen as unfit to rule, because Westerosi think women are unfit to rule and shouldn't be heirs because they are simply women).
I doubt GRRM’s story is that Dany will prove everyone right and become exactly like her father and be a horrible female ruler. That Jon will prove everyone right and be deceitful and untrustworthy. That Arya is damaged and only good for killing because she is not lady like. That Tyrion and Bran are useless. That would be an entirely nihilistic tale that has no moral to the story at the end of it all - other than that these characters prove that society was right about them.
@@blackeyedlily Does Dany know about the white walkers and is doing nothing?, and how is dany obsessed with freeing people?, and the Mad queen dany theory is just d*mb, and just misogynistic and it's also bad writing, because it's like GRRM thinking that: "in this very patriarchal society, let me turn the two main female rulers (Cercei and dany) into crazy b*tches that need to be put down by their rational male lovers, that will definitely make patriarchy less worse", it's stupid.
GRRM has said that he is a feminist, and he criticizes a lot of systems, and one of them is patriarchy, how is he gonna do that when he writes both of his main female rulers as crazy incompetent rulers who can't handle power and will be ended by men, This is true of GRRM’s main characters - they are all viewed a certain way by Westerosi society and their story is to overcome that and show society that no, they are not what society expects them to be. Jon is constantly perceived a certain way because he’s a b*stard and hence deceitful and untrustworthy. His bastardy defines a big part of his story. Arya is perceived a certain way because she does not conform to how society thinks women should be. Tyrion is seen a certain way because he’s a dwarf. Bran is seen a certain way because he’s a cripple. Dany is seen a certain way because she’s the exiled mad King’s daughter, who is Also a girl (so she is seen as unfit to rule, because Westerosi think women are unfit to rule and shouldn't be heirs because they are simply women).
I doubt GRRM’s story is that Dany will prove everyone right and become exactly like her father and be a horrible female ruler. That Jon will prove everyone right and be deceitful and untrustworthy. That Arya is damaged and only good for killing because she is not lady like. That Tyrion and Bran are useless. That would be an entirely nihilistic tale that has no moral to the story at the end of it all - other than that these characters prove that society was right about them.
Danny did a whole Darth Vader arc in 2 to 3 episodes. wirh very minimal motivation or reasoning.
Though he isn't an advisor of Daenerys that could cause her to turn evil both in the series as well as the books.
After Tyrion's "Who has a better story speech" Bran says: "Why do you think I came?" We assume that has foreseen Daenerys turning evil and even Tyrion's suggestion to make him king. However what if he hasn't just foreseen it but caused it. By sending Daenerys visions to drive her mad or even warg into her or her dragon. He would have killed thousands to become king himself.
Hopefully we will get to see her and Jon meet in the books, one day. I’m sure Jon will have changed if he’s brought back to life; they should be a volatile duo.
I was thinking that Littlefinger might lodge himself with Dany and become a close advisor to her. Though Tyrion being alive and well might make problems for him. It's easier to imagine her going insane with an overload of information that Petyr might provide.
Why would she go insane?💀
@@Aydan2108 I often heard mention of Aerys insanity being worsened by Varys' whisperings. I feel like it will not be Littlefinger who begins her descent, unless he somehow connives to have her loved ones killed, then he might simply push her over the edge with constant rumours of new traitors in every corner.
"not the brightest bulb in the bulb jar" is the new "mind of a mastermind"
Im very curious on how Victarion will work in Dany's circle. I personally dont think he'll last long but his dislike of Eastern Slavery was set up in the Reaver Chapters and hes started making Plans to free the slaves in Slavers bay.
4 views, damn I was so close to being that legendary view #1 on a video XD
"where my hug at" XD oh I laughed at that
I think Marwin is correct in most everything he's shared. He just doesn't know how correct he is. Other things we know of as readers, he doesn't.
He's not exactly unfounded in his beliefs and motives.
And we should really all know by now...
The difference between a conspiracy theorist and the truth...
... is usually only a few months.
Let's gooo! First? Second? Who cares? Not me
I really don't think Aegon being a Blackfyre will make Dany lose it, but the fact that he's using the name of her family for it. The name of her older brother to evoke the love of the people who, even having issues with the Mad King, loved prince Rhaegar, someone she never got the chance to meet in person, only by magic in visions.
I think it’s such a hot take calling Victarion evil so far he’s done nothing evil at all. He lives the iron born life and is plotting against his brother but just lacks the intellect to do so. I actually enjoy his character not being a dumb evil brute.
???????????????????????? He beat his wife to death for the crime of getting raped by Euron. He sacrificed a bunch of virgins to R'hallor, he ordered the maester on his ship murdered and let's not forget this same maester told him his men were raping him and Victarion did nothing. Victarion rapes and kills however he wants and you're telling me he's not evil?
Jorha where my hug at mormont😂
I think Dany will have a sort of Rand al’Thor arc. I think it’s important for these characters that start off more wide-eyed and naive to grapple with and fully explore darkness (or justifying the means with ends) before they can ultimately make a choice on their ultimate path.
To borrow from Terry Pratchett, show!Dany went from A to Z without going through the rest of the alphabet. The books have made it clear she risks arriving at Z and what the path looks like, but the show did a lot less in this regard.
And as for King Bran, we haven't even reached A.
How did the books make it clear?
I think Daenerys might not even turn fully villainous. I do think she could unleash the power of the dragons over these advisors, most of Dany's arc also has to do with her finding herself into very bad situation with men surrounding her I think the ~Grassland Retreat~ is also a way to get into her lineage Fire and Blood, she's a Targaryen she won't be hold back by Westerosi standard or ideal, it would circle back into Aegon, Visanya and Rhaenys story too with them having to conform into Westeros
You should have used fanart Danny, to show how young she is.
Argue with me all you want! In my head cannon, Tyrion Lannister and cerci was conspiring against Dany since season 7!
Dany X is one of the most important chapters of the entire series. It's more important than the Red Wedding.
It's where Dany makes the choice to ruleh through 'Fire and Blood instead of being a diplomatic, benevolent queen, and as a result of that choice, at the end of the chapter, SHE BONDS WITH DROGON. She can ride him without needing a whip anymore and Drogon reacts to her emotions only.
It's the chapter that will mark the turning point where Daenerys decides to be a ruthless ruler, AND it is the first moment in the series where a character bonds with a dragon.
This. People tend to overlook this chapter but the fact that the books closes with it should sound the alarm, this is one of the most turning points in the whole series.
@@Viffidoit makes sense because he was about to burn her in that moment but I don’t see it as her being evil but she will be ruthless to an extent but the endgame for her is to fight the others and possibly sacrifice herself to save the world
Literally how?, she rejected peace slavers
@@Aydan2108 you make peace with your enemies, that's why it's called making peace.
@@Viffido and she did, and it didn't work, if your enemies are slavers and not just enemies than there is no point of peace
I always thought that the interpretation of archmaester Marwin you used in the thumbnail looked like a cavemen...
yeah lol. he reminds me of some cartoon character, but I can't put my finger on it.
I think Dany might be looked at as a villain for burning Volantis, but I doubt F'Aegon will be an issue as he and Jon Con are likely spreading greyscale which causes you to go mad. So I think Dany will be more concerned w/ the plague and the Others than she is w/ F'Aegon himself. Plus if F'Aegon does somehow come into power in King's Landing before Dany gets there, I would seriously doubt that Cersie would simply accept it as she has already burned the Tower of the Hand just for Tyrion. I can only imagine how far she might go to deal w/ an invading army aka she has wildfire.
I’m curious George said there would be a second dance but it doesn’t really involve Dany but I wonder who would it be
I think Barristan will betray Daenerys for Jon when he finds out he’s Aegon and he will get Varys death in the show. It will be one of Daenerys’s three betrayals
I think Selmy living a while would fit with George’s MO if Lemore turns out to be Ashara Dayne
I can't decide which is sadder, the White Bull traveling all the way across Essos only to die in mereen to the White Mare, or him making it back to Westeros with his Queen, only to die in aerys' daughter's accidental KL wildfire.
either way is just sad that Terros will be down one of its last true (himbo) Knights
I truly don’t believe dany would just turn evil and murder innocents. It just seems counter to her character. She is trying not to be her father.
Also aegon I sincerely doubt will get far. He might have a few victories but griff wants to take storms end for some reason and he might be able to sway someone like bronn to his cause but even with the disarray Kevan and pycelles death will cause Cersei is doubtful to regain power even after her trial.
yo quinn the gm completely off topic question but what if combining different forms of magic in some special ritual is the key to permanently defeating the others and getting rid of them for good? maybe the part of the azor ahai prophecy where he is supposed to kill nissa nissa, actually means/requires jon to sacrifice daenaerys in some ritual using both the magic of the red god (melisandre's magic) and the magic of the old gods and that maybe also requires the help of the children of the forest and also maybe the flaming sword he's actually supposed to plunge into nissa nissa's heart is a knife made of dragon glass (into daenaerys' chest during a ritual).
I would totally understand if dany does sacrifice herself by accepting some kinda sword to the heart, but still, a part of me just really hopes that jon can maybe sacrifice like rhaegal or drogon or someone in her place, lol
It seems like another theme for dany is learning the wrong lessons. The shaman woman who “heals” drogo, chaining her dragons to spare the destruction of her people, her failure at attempting to rule mereen. what was the lesson she learned from these moments? I suspect there will be more “lessons” like these coming. Moments that can legitimately occur in life, but without the right wisdom can teach us the wrong lesson.
congratulations on the end of your first year
Darkstar would be a great advisor to Dany
If Dany does indeed head to Westeros in WoW, I feel it will be very late on. I see her establishing a Targaryen empire in the East: she’ll return to Mereen riding Drogon at the head of a dothraki horde where the forces of Yunkai, New Ghis, Tolos, Volantis &c are handily gathered. She’ll retake Yunkai and Astapor and turn Victarion loose on Qarth. By the time Aegon has taken the Iron Throne (if he does) Dany will dominate everything from Volantis to Qarth. It will take a lot to draw her west.
What about Daario?
Why don’t you ever edit your audio when mistakes happen , just curious
I don’t agree with Vic being the most evil POV at all, he has his principles, he knows gratitude and has his own specific sense of honor
Will Varys the Merman also become one of Dany's advisors in Winds?
No Reznak mo Reznak?
Mo Reznak Mo problems, that’s what I always say
@@QuinnTheGM preach
In the show, this honor goes the "the imp" of the Lannisters.
Not to give any HOTD spoilers, but...I could see Daenerys going out similar to how Rhaenys does, just in the battle against the Others. That said, if she takes an irreversible turn for the worse like she does in the show, I think Jorah is a much better option to kill her than Jon. I could see him doing a murder-suicide actually. But again, I don't think it'll come to that and if truth be told, Jon will be the one who faces off with Cersei in the end, to mirror the story's opening conflict between the Starks and Lannisters. Great video Quinn!
I think Dany dying in the throne room like the show was something that came directly from George, it's way too big to not be. The circunstances will be different tho, I think she will be betrayed instead of put down like a dog with rabbies.
If there is a face off with Cersei in the end, and the Stark-Lannister feud is still important then, the book series will have failed completely, just like the show.
We've already moved away from the Stark/Lannister feud since book 4, because it never was supposed to be important in the first place, compared to the threat from the North. And Cersei has destroyed her own base of power so thoroughly in books 4 and 5 that any attempt to revive her and somehow make her a powerful character again will feel contrived and forced, just like it did in the show. George is too good a writer for that.
@@Viffidono the show runners said they planned that ending with her and Jon it’s obvious they wanted Jon to kill her but they didn’t really know how to end danys storyline unless she’d do something terrible to justify Jon killing her. But this was before they met with George to discuss the ending since they didn’t know how to conclude it
@@Viffido that's just lame, and GRRM isn't gonna write a lame ending to his main character
@@Aydan2108 GRRM is not gonna turn her mad, but Dany dying in the throne room could be good and even poetic. After the war with the others is done there's going to be some kind of power struggle in the capital and I think Dany is gonna be betrayed and die. But hey, it's not like we're even gonna get an ending from George.
Will be heartwarming to see Tyrion council his mother to burn all of Westeros 🥹
Fool wat
@@mementomori771 D+D=T it’s obvious
I will always defend my girl Dany
I’ve never been this early for a video before.
You're not worried about any of the Essos characters like Daario, Hizdhar, the Green Grace, or the Shavepate?
I always get the Shavepate, & Rezznak Mo Rezznak, & the Several Seneschals whomst Wear Perfume mixed up. are they all the same person?? maybe some are some aren't? I can't fookn tell.
Varys will definitely make her look like “the mad queen” but she’ll give up King’s Landing to save the North
Im pretty sure dany is gonna get killed at some point, jorah is going to give her the last kiss. This will parallel what dany is thinking the first time he kissed her without permission. zombie dany seems a lot more likely to be going lady stoneheart on KL.
Kl may get destroyed before she even gets there especially since Jon con is spreading greyscale and it could cause an outbreak plus Cersei is paranoid and may snap somehow and cause the wildfire outbreak possibly to kill faegon
@@ACinemafanatic I am more focusing on how do we go from dany in the books to what we are shown in the show. There are a lot of details that are different but the broad strokes are the same. The show makes it seems like she just snapped but I could totally see it more like she gets rez, wakes up alone amongst corpses, including Mormont and has no clue what is going on or even that she died. Then whoever she has remaining connections to her die or become distant and causes dany to focus on her mission (like bearic and stoneheart). Murder mode is pretty easy to see. I think Cat stark was way harder than dany was in book I, look where she ended up.
Why are you sure that she's gonna get killed?
@@Aydan2108I am coming from a perspective trying to apologize (original meaning) for the show. While details between the show and books, the broad strokes can be used to try to understand the story.
There needs to a reason to explain the personality change between murdermode dany and dany before. The story has a lot of antecedents to show you the bad idea nature of rezzing, I can’t help but think they are gonna show someone worst than stoneheart doing it. I think Jorah is gonna do it because of the self-sacrifice nature of the kiss, as well as the entire monologue dany thinks after he actually kissed her in the books. I would imagine he would do this after trying to defend her but failing. This would leave dany unaware of what happened (or if she even died). The other wights at least have an understanding they are dying and coming back, she would just have confusion.
In the books Jorah is already starting to have a lot of interactions with red priests, I could see him do the last kiss, like thoros, did without the expectation to work.
Finally, if Jon ends up in ghost and gets some wolffish qualities, I could totally see Targaryens doing something similar (I know the warging nature is not definitive but there are definitely similarities to how the starks are with their dire wolves, and the rhyonar are with their turtles and Targaryens with their turtles).
I think Ser Selmy just belives in nobilitys right to rule. Its the given order and ofc he, as part of the noble caste, enforces the conservative status quo. Why should he, not just as Semly himself, but as a member of a medieval society, care when some peasents get caught in the crossfire? Its a Kings right to rule and a peasents duty to serve. Thats no justification, just an explanation
lmao danny sympathetic even in the show? CMON NOW
And viccy more evil than cersei? I swear
I didn’t mind her becoming the mad queen and i always thought it was enviable but i just don’t think the writing in the show was good at that point and they didn’t know how to pull it off properly
It's true, Viccy ISN'T the brightest bulb in the bulb jar.
Is it evil to embody the Ironborn way?
omg definitely not first
Cersei is definitely more evil than Victarion Greyjoy. She murdered her friend at a young age. Gave Falyse Stokeworth to Qyburn to be tortured and murdered. Victarion kills those who wronged him quickly. Plus he is stupid and not as manipulative so he's ability for causing evil outcomes is capped.
Nah, Victarion is a menace. He may not be as subtle as Cersei, but he's more brutal, and just as powerful. Cersei has a slipping grasp on the Iron Throne, but Vic has a firm grasp on the Iron Fleet. It's hard to compare murders, but Victarion doesn't kill those who wronged him, he kills who he can get away with killing. Which is a lot. His justifications are equally bad as Cersei's.
We all knew a Jorah in high school lol
Thank god for the video i need to distract myself from The Madrid shit
Vic ain’t even that bad yall, neither is the maester
he beat his wife to death but okay man
@@mocha5742 need i put an /s ? look at my username lmao
@@mocha5742she slept with another man 🤷♂️
this is what you get when you have show runners that want to move on to bigger and better.
My boy Young Griff gonna be looking great.
I hope Young Griif is a good king who won the Iron throne by the time Dany arrives, so her cause looks more and more like Maelys the Monstrous 2.0
@@josephbulkin9222 I just Young Griff lives.
@@josephbulkin9222lmao, she is killing that fake ahh dragon, can't wait to see her putting Griff in his place
@@Aydan2108 bleh
Dany will remain a good character, who has to fight off bad council. She is the hero of A Song of Ice and Fire
QuinnTheGM
Find 13 Episodes is legally Bad Writing that is an Fact.
Daenerys is nothing without dragons, Euron is everything even with no dragons. She is in trouble.
Daenerys is nothing without dragons?
People talking about how its her advisors are whats going to make her evil as if she hasnt already done extremely evil acts sorry if i dont see her as a sympathetic character i hold her Accountable for her actions
Such as?
I think Euron will play a pivotal role here. He obviously has Victarion figured out and has little to fear from him, and in Aeron's vision it's hinted he may marry Daenerys (I've also seen people speculate that woman may be Cersei but I think that's just people putting too much stock in show canon. Cersei is a spent force and will die halfway TWOW).
Euron is much more Dany's type than anyone else and a marriage would make sense from a political sense as well, as Dany has no allies in Westeros and the Iron Fleet is already partly at her side.
Jorah is going to kidnap Daenerys. He is evil. He has made it clear he'd take her if not for her bloodriders
She’s totally going evil, ala Raenyra in F&B, just as FAegon represents Aegon I, both will become evil, both are going to die, George like to draw parallels between the past and present
*Aegon II
What are you on about? 💀, you seem to be a D&D fan, GRRM is not D&D
Lol, only show fans are the ones who think that, I have read every single book and can say tell you since The first one is was clear Dany was going that way if anything D&D screw up by covering up in the show
@@fabriciosolano4612 please tell me how is it clear?
She murdered Mirri Maz Duu, even after she was a victim of Drogo who conquered her lands at the request of Dany,you should watch a video by the Hill’s Alive. Dany always deflects blame honestly she is a little better version of her brother
Love your channel, but, no way are Victarion and Cersei the most evil POV characters. Not by a longshot. Euron, takes that by quite some distance. With Victarion, he does have some form of warriors honour and code, moreover, can feel guilt, which his limited intellect can't quite quantify, thus making him look emotionless or cruel, when he is basically a brutish dullard. You don't need to go into Ramsay or Roose Boltons minds to realize, Victarion is positively mild. Cersei, yes she's vile and demented, but you can see pretty clearly were her vileness stems from. Euron, in terms of POV is a pure sociopath, and easily the most evil POV character. A classic case of the pampered rich kid who took waaaaaay to many drugs, and is dabbling into some very deep shit, he has no idea of. Moreover, what he did too Damphair is pretty freaking unspeakable. Cersei and Victarion are a lot of things, but that, they sure ain't.