Leasing A Car With Installment Payments at a Higher Price | Ask Shaykh YQ #28
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ต.ค. 2019
- When it comes to buying a car, there are multiple options available to choose from. There are options that include interest whether it is financing or leasing. One has to evaluate their options and choose wisely. What are the limits as a Muslim getting involved in such a deal?
Shaykh Yasir answers in the video above!
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Credits
Intro Quran Recitation: سورة النحل هزاع البلوشي
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Outro Nasheed: 'The Good is Still Alive'
Link: • The Good Is Still Aliv...
Timelapse Footage
From: Timestorm Films
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As-salamu alaykum Yasir. Thank you for the lecture. Technically speaking, charging an APR versus negotiated, fixed higher price for installment is the same. Establishing an APR is simply an easy way to determine the price markup for installments. I think what your are focused on is the language of the contract when behind the contract is the intent of the law as well. If we have to understand interest or riba we must understand how it impacts the broader society, a sovereign state or the world economy. Simply put, at the end of the day riba causes inequality and other economic ills. That is the essence of the law behind riba prohibition in Islam. Allah knows your intentions no matter how you pen things in a contract. I am a practitioner of modern finance and a follower of Islam and the type of finance it teaches us. I agree with the terms of your Toyota Cressida contract (yes it’s a great car! 😀) however I agree not because of the trick of the pen (or printer) but because the APR/price markup was not egregiously high and that it was fixed. I will end with a personal experience. Once, through Allahs guidance, I was dissuaded from putting a large down on a mortgage. Instead I rented a house and invested the money and my investments grew many times such that I could buy the house in cash. Allah looks at your intentions and rewards those who go good. May Allah guide us all. Thank you so much. I am a great beneficiary of your lectures.
That's what I was thinking..... From what I heard you can pay a higher price if you pay in installments over more years as long as its fixed and no late fees, however I stuggle to find the difference with apr and buying with loan with apr over a fixed number of years, so whats the difference between the to apart from that word and language mentioning apr
Salaam! I hope this comment finds you well and may Allah azza wa jalla increase you and I in goodness. I totally understand what you are saying but here is where I respectfully disagree. I understand that on the face of it, it may seem identical (paying with an APR vs fixed payments for a higher price on the same car). I think the distinction is that in the first scenario riba is occurring (defined islamically as exchanging money for more money) i.e. paying a $10,000 car loan with $12,000 dollars over a few years. That's essentially what you're doing since the bank is handing you $10,000 (not a car), and then you use that money to buy a car and you repay them $12,000. This is exchanging money for more money (excess) and is haram. In the second scenario, you are negotiating a price with 0% APR. This way, the bank is giving you a $12,000 loan, you buy the car, then you pay back $12,000. Money for equal money. At least that's how I see it. And Allah SWT knows best :) @@nurulislam1284
May Allah bless you and we have more people like you. How did you invest halal? Pls comment
I am just so confused.. so is this allowed or not
Sub'hanallah! Very informative video...! Most of us are ignorant of such issues. May Allah protect us from wrong doings. Aameen!
Crystal clear explanation. JazakAllah khair Sheikh
JazakAllahu oh Sheikh for the beautiful and well explained answer
The more i listen to the many different explanations in regards to mortgage , loans, credit cards, higher purchases, storecards etc the more confused i get. I never understand.
same here :( i am planning to buy a car in Dubai but its getting more complicated whenever I listen to different scholars
I understand its easy to get confused, but please know you are not alone i work in a finance company and me and my muslim colleagues still find it challenging trying to navigate this world thru lens of islamic finance where the dust of interest is on every financial product.
The toughest questions make you wise, Just keep trying insha'Allah it will increase your understanding of finance like it did for me and im not even a finance major and insha'Allah you'll find a way to navigate it.
And may Allah put barakah in our rizq and efforts for striving to deal in our finances in a manner that is pleasing to him and thats a life worth living for.
The prophet SAW said to leave that which is doubtful for that which is clear. I think most people who search for these questions are just fatwa shopping and these days you will always find someone who will validate your wishes. However, if one is sincere with Allah and fears going to war with him over interest then we need to be extra careful. Sometimes people who overcomplicate things and play with words are just trying to justify something they know is wrong and mislead people. The best and the clearest way is to avoid any dealing with interest, whether in form or substance and to be content with whatever Allah blesses us in the halal way. This is no doubt more pleasing to him and a source of peace for the believer. May Allah make it easy for us. Ameen
@@ikhlaq0092 you should meet shaikhs one on one and ask questions.. Make the effort
@@samisyed2370 I have done some research and it didn’t satisfy my heart and mind so I have decided not to go for it. It better to suffer here instead of suffering in the hereafter 🙂
جزاك الله خير شيخ د. ياسر القاضي.
May Allah reward you beloved sheikh
from what i heard from several sheikh. APR or not it doesn't mater. What matter is the owner of the car is the one giving you the instalment. 3rd party involvement become interest. Per example, honda is the seller but the installment contract is with a bank like HSBC. In that case it become interest. So to summarize if you take a APR loan from the manufacturer and the instalment is with the same manufacturer then it's not haram even if he decide to put a APR. Just make sure the instalment are fix rate and determined month. otherwise it's interest.
Assalamoalaikum w.r
Pls share link of the video regarding house financing.
What about car purchase contracts that have a fixed APR and at the end of the contract you can pay a final lump sum to buy the car or, you can simply return it and that is the end of the transaction or, you can return the car, choose a new model and start all over again. N.B the customers intention is to never pay the final lump sum at the end to buy the car outright.
Salam sheikh could you please do a video on the ruling of eating meat of the people of the book - ie I’m western countries - what constitutes people of the book, are they practicing and how much we need to research into where the meet came from. Jzakallah khair
At 5 minutes, he said only gonna take 5 minutes lol. But what he missed is what if it is Asset + Interest = Assets + Increased fee installments. I know in the end he said it doesn't matter... My contract is a halal one. But we still need to consider at end of day you're paying same amount.
from what i heard from several sheikh. APR or not it doesn't mater. What matter is the owner of the car is the one giving you the instalment. 3rd party involvement become interest. Per example, honda is the seller but the installment contract is with a bank like HSBC. In that case it become interest. So to summarize if you take a APR loan from the manufacturer and the instalment is with the same manufacturer then it's not haram even if he decide to put a APR. Just make sure the instalment are fix rate and determined month. otherwise it's interest.
Masha'Allah I love these Q and A's what is the email address to send emails too?
To follow up a discussion in a comment thread, isn't it a backdoor to riba? For example if I need $5000, I can sell an object, say a soap for $5000 and buy it back immediately for $5500 with the payment being installments? Wouldn't that be exactly riba?
السلام عليكم ورحمه الله
Could someone tell the name of qari at the beginning of video, platform?
Jazakallahu heir
Amin Benarieb check the description. All links are there
Assalamu alaikkum Jazakallah khair Sheikh
I knew he was going say Toyota lol🤣
Me to lol
Does this principle apply to buying a house as the price is considerably more.. with regard to rent v mortgage, given that you are at A huge disadvantage if u pay less for a house (bad neighboorhood, crime, schools etc) . And most people cannot buy outright as with a car. Islamic finance is often very difficult to acquire.
If I purchase a car with a fixed price and no APR but there is a third party involved (such as a bank) would it still be permissible? The bank would require I commit to a contract with it before the bank purchases the car. Once I've committed then the bank purchases the car on my behalf and i then pay the bank in installments the agreed value of the car with no APR. Is this ok?
As long as it's 0% it will be halal insha'Allah
No. They must own the car then sell it to you at fixed price, also no penalties.
this concept of instalments resulting in a higher end price sounds like a hire purchase agreement however the deals that I am seeing have the word APR mentioned although the end price is fixed, so you pay a fixed instalment every month which will not change...is this then allowed
Has there been any update concerning mortgage issue?
He went over mortgages this week.
He missed the actual main issue with leasing abd Boone can answer this for some reason, yet we all lease, you go to a bmw dealer, they own the car, but bmw finance who are a Separate finance company lease you the car, why?
The question is do they buy the whole car from the dealer then rent it to you? If so it’s a lease like rent it’s halal insh’Allah.
BUT I’d what they are doing paying say 10k to the dealer for a 30k car, to compensate for depreciation and the car is returned to the dealer after you pay 12k back the 2 k of which bring interest on that 10k loan?
He oversimplified this but it’s not a simple process.
This is the problem. Most scholars are financially inept to understand and answer such queries
Thank you for hitting the nail on the head with your comment. I wish more people understood this.
What is the difference between higher price and interest? Dealing/working with interest based companies (conventional, investment and insurance companies) is halal or not?
A higher price is fixed and doesn't increase over time, interest adds more and more over time.
If the car brand cooperates with the bank, it is also allowed????
What about lease to own? If you sign a lease for 36 months with intention to buy out the car at the end of the lease term.
The questioner is asking about the money factor (interest on a lease). The majority of leases include this in the fine print and it’s baked into the monthly expense to the buyer. I think this was missed here.
Yes please sir clarify this
I agree. when they calculate the lease, they include interest as a factor. i am not sure though if it is stated in contract! i guess if interest is not part of the contract then one should be fine per his explanation
In our country you can't lease a car in 100% installment payment. It has to be 50:50 ratio or lower. Suppose if I want to buy a car for 20k, I must pay atleast 10k in cash. The other 10k will be covered by the bank or the company with fixed interest rate to be paid in 5 years. Will this process be allowed?
Myshallah, excellent question and I hope it gets answer by a scholar. As far as I understand is if there is any interest (something that fluctuate over time) charge by the bank, it is riba, it must be and agree price before the payments begin. Aláh knows best and may He protect us from Riba in which there are no winners.
الحمد لله
for the default to be the easier position. However, in my country, the contract is not done between client and car dealership, but rather with banks in between. 😔
Hopefully the mortgage lecture will follow very soon.
Selam alaykum, same here in my country. leasing always includes 1-4% interest rate which is paid to the bank. mortgage the same.
@@rimax82 if the bank will own the car then it's halal. if he jus giving the loan with interest it's haram
@@AhmedAhmed-yu5mz are you saying it's halal if they own it, even though they (bank) call it interest?
@@rimax82 in islam you have to look at what is it and not the name. Per example if I take a water bottle and add a new sticker and call it Vodka will it be haram to drink it? of course not. So when you trade in finance you have to look at it and the contract. Forget what the other party call it. As for the bank you really have to read the contract in details and make sure the bank own it and not just financing the car. To be honest bank usually finance don't own. So it's better to have an installment directly with the manufacturer or one of it's division rather than a 3rd party.
I am not looking for a car but I went to some manufacturer website and there some cars they offer at 0%. I like mazda but they now offer apr 0.9%(used to be 0%). Hyundai they offer on some cars 0%. I don't like them but if I will be willing to buy a a car ill go with the kia/hyundai to be more than 100% safe in case you are still confused about all that. Just a tip that you need to shop.
Assalamu alaykum! Can someone please explain again the difference between the haram scenario and the halal one? I am not sure if I have understood it fully
The haram one is interest rate or APR (annual percentage rate) on a car, for example 4% APR on a car that costs $5000, this is haram because the 4% is interest/riba. The halal scenario is that you get a car on instalments but the price is fixed (obviously getting something on installments means that the total sum of money paid will be higher than paying cash up front) and everything is written in the contract, for example there is a car for sale that is for $5000 if you pay the full amount in cash but it is $7000 if you pay it in installments over 2 years, it is halal to take the installment option and pay a higher total sum (meaning the $7000 option) BUT with two conditions;
1) Everything has to be written in the contract and there should be NO uncertainty, the monthly installment amount, how long you will pay them, total price paid etc
2) Incase you miss you payment and there is a clause in the contract that says that there will be a late fee, that late fee is also not allowed but Shiekh Yasir mentions that the entire contract doesn’t become haram because of one small detail so to work your way around that what you can do is make sure you always pay on time and the easiest way to do that is to turn on automatic payments so that you don’t miss a payment.
Hope this helps!
@@emanafroze9349 Very helpful summary.
@@emanafroze9349 second scenario is riba based contract. It’s not fixed price if it has late fee clause. It’s still riba lol. Halal contract is installments is at fixed price, never goes up(it can go down), no penalties, and the seller must be in possession of the property.
@@AK-ff2yj I know a late fee is also riba, which is why I said in point 2 that it’s not allowed but a small detail like that doesn’t make the entire contract haram. Autopay is a foolproof way to avoid it.
Assalaamu Alaikum, Can someone please explain what is APR, and how does it affects our transactions.?
I think annual percentage rate. So yearly rate of increase
In Islam....
Any difference between cash price and credit price = Riba
I am unable to differentiate the concept of fixed APR and fixed price to be paid in instalments.
Arent they both the same?
Suppose a car is priced at 1000. The fixed APR is 10%. So the amount is also fixed as 1100 to be paid as instalments. Either you say 10% or you calculate and add it to the prinicipal amount they both are the same.
Help me understand this Sheikh
Same here, I don't see the difference. APR is always fixed, so its the same thing.
If you buy a car with interest in it, the price will go higher the more the payment is delayed
While the car that is higher in price if financed... The price would be higher than cash, but it will be fixed price. Not a rising price. And you set a date when all the fixed higher price will be paid.
Hope i was clear
Kamal AL-Hinai Thanks for the response brother. But I fail to understand this point. Even if we are paying the interest it is not for indefinite period. Any Interest scheme is for a fixed number of years. So it will be 10% for 4 years. So how is the price increasing?
What about rent to own scheme?
I'm still not sure I understood the concept here. So, if I want to buy a car and the dealership tells me it is $10,000 cash now OR $14,000 in monthly installments, shouldn't the first question that I must ask is - "What's the main reason for $4,000 extra for paying in installments?" If the dealership says, "Its interest", then the transaction is haram for me right away.
You are approaching this matter with logic and the basic principle of what these scholars are trying to justify seems wrong. You can argue forever about word choice and substance. It is well known that near the end of times people will try to lead others astray, even knowledgable people. It is best to leave the path which contains doubt - for that path which is clear instead. Sometimes simple people understand matters and are closer to Allah than intellectuals who spend their entire lives debating minor details to justify their desires. If there is a genuine need and hardship then that is a different case but most of the questions these days aren’t out of necessity - it’s all about being better than your neighbours/people you know etc. May Allah guide us all to that which is most pleasing to him and grant us contentment with everything he has blessed us with, ameen.
But they wouldn't say the "reason" is interest. The reason is, your inconveniencing them by not giving the full money up front, so they're taking benefit by making more money in the long run. Deferred payments, at a higher cost are so common in Islam. Look at the online courses by Muslim institutions, they charge £300 for the course or £350 if you pay in installments.
so if the car is 12,000 and you want to pay it monthly and it is 14,000 is that interest , long as you clear it within the 3 years
So is it consider riba or not?
Selam alejkun I'm confuse can u help me out
If u lease a car for 4 years and there it say 3.99% and the monthly payment is $400 every month is it ok ?
3.99 would be the annual percentage rate (Apr)
No
Check your lease paperwork it has an APR WHICH THEY DONT TELL YOU ABOUT WHEN YOUR AT THE DEALERSHIP.
So what you already engaged? Subxanallah sh what should the person do return the car or what.
If you return the car and repent to Allah then that will be the best for you. May Allab help us all.
What surah and who is the reciter from 0:19 to 0:30
It's in the description
Has the sheik posted anything about mortgages on a house yet?
He just went over mortgages this week.
Yes
Yes. th-cam.com/video/l3prA2vbveE/w-d-xo.html
Can anyone tell that if I work at a company which has loan or established by loan money is my job halal?
Not halal
Subhanallah
From what I heard you can pay a higher price if you pay in installments over more years as long as its fixed and no late fees like the sheikh said , however I struggle to find the difference with apr and buying with loan with apr over a fixed number of years, so whats the difference between the two apart from that word and language mentioning apr interest. There must be a difference to make the first halal as opposed to the haram apr.... So can someone explain the actual difference, at moment it's just the wording apr being used??
if the apr is fixed for the time of the sale . does it not mean a fixed price at the end of the?
The scholar mentioned in is Rafiq Yunus Al-Masri
Adnan Morshed jazakallah
Assalam u alaikum,
Did you take the loan from the bank to pay the dealership? I read somewhere that because of the nature of the way banks work their involvement is not halal. Reason that they want at any case and they do not accept the loss if the lender is not able to pay. Please suggest
Assalamu alaikum sheikh
1.I want to purchase shares of few airlines in India. But airlines serves beverages like wine & beer to passengers. Because of this reason i am re-thinking about investing on airline share. Once i purchase the stock i will become a part owner of that company may be 0.0000000000001% but still a owner & if the profit is paid am scared it could be also a part of profit from alcohol products. Kindly help me on this please.
2. I want to buy stocks of some company may be airline or any manufacturing company or other (not any haram products) but that particular company has loans based on interest(reba) from banks for firms operation or expansion am i permitted to buy stocks. Is it still be considered as haram stocks
Please help me to invest on halal stocks sir
Also wondering. Did you get your answers?
I heard it's okay, as over 95% of its income is from transporting not Alcohol sales,
You should also donate 20% of your profit as you have fallen into a Grey area
What if we take loan of money and pay in installments to higher price?
Loan contract will have interest.
i think you are allowed to do that IF AND ONLY IF the loan doesn’t require interest
Is the compulsory insurance whiich you have to get with '0%' leasing halal as well?
1) APR is haram because by its nature it’s a varying type of transaction (even though it has the ability to be fixed)
2) fixed instalment is halal because by its nature it’s a fixed type of transaction (even though it has the ability to vary depending on late payment charges)
Sheikh can you confirm if my understanding is correct and can you confirm in scenario 2 if we were to have different fixed payment plans for for example:
The car is worth £10,000 cash or £12,000 over 2 years, £14,000 over 3 years or finally £16,000 over 4 years, this will be fixed like scenario 2, does the number of options matter and if there was a late penalty fee (this would bring a variable element to the transaction) how does this differ from the APR scenario just so that I’m clear
the bank is paying the dealer the actual price on behalf of you cash. which creates debt with you and the bank interest... because the bank will be charging you extra for borrowing. It's very doubtful. I would rather leave it.
APR: Annual Percentage Rate 📈
Assalaamu Alaikum, Can you please explain what is APR, and how does it affects our transactions.?
APR is the annual interest rate. It only affects credit transactions - so if you take out a loan or use a credit card etc. normal banking and cash activities aren’t related to interest. In islam dealing with riba is one of the biggest major sins so we have to be very careful about these things. Please look at the authentic books/ask a person of knowledge for more information. May Allah guide us all, Ameen.
But what if the guy in the back of his room calls the bank and tells them about your wish, the bank then pays the dealer immediately (say $20k), but then charges the dealer $2k in interest for it, but the seller doesn't tell you about it and just offers you an installment purchase for $24k with fixed monthly installments.?
And what if he does tell you? It cannot be that a "paper lie" decides here whether it is Halal or Haram?
And what if the seller offers you this fixed installment purchase, but you pay the money monthly to the dealer's bank?
It doesn't sound like interest free to me, it sounds like fake interest free.
Especially when I know about what kind of deal was made in the back of the room.
Just imagine: You go to a butcher and want to buy meat. Ask him if he is Muslim, to what extent he lives the Kuran and Sunnah, and then ask if the meat is halal. He tells you "Halal" and you go and get it.
Now the situation changes because you had a glimpse into his slaughter room. There you saw that he did not follow the Islamic conditions when slaughtering the animals.
Do you now also just artificially hide that? Do you then also say, "I don't care what he does in the room back there. He finally says to ME that it is HALAL. The rest doesn't matter then?"
I think not.
A massive question arises from this.
£10,000 for the car straight up
Or 5% APR for 5 years
£210 per month fixed for 5 years. And the car is yours. Is it halal ?
They mentioned your paying the APR?
SHK what if you miss payments ?
APR is not halal whatsoever, means you're paying interest. Look for 0% APR insha'Allah
I would have thought the reason why it would be permissible is because there is no loan involved.
Jazakallah
Wait. Did I miss something? Is this part of a bigger lecture? Because there is NO MENTION ABOUT THE LOANING FACTOR from banks that most new cars have to be purchased from.
When you buy a new car from a dealership(and not those Buy Here Pay Here types), when you agree on a final price, and you don't have physical cash to purchase it, you will have to go through a BANK. The BANK loans you the money with INTEREST - which is MONEY ON TOP OF MONEY - The essence of Riba. Why was this not mentioned?
My thoughts as well!
What’s the difference if it’s buy here pay here with a fixed apr
@@Userless1565 buy here pay here don’t deal with banks so technically you don’t borrow money with interest. The ‘APR’ here basically translates to your credit score determines the percentage extra they’ll charge as the final value. But just look at it from the perspective that are you willing to pay the final value whatever it’s calculated to be? Is the car worth the final value to you if you pay x amount monthly? Usually ‘buy here pay here’ dealerships don’t have the best value for your money. But if you are strapped to buy a car and want to avoid getting a conventional loan from banks which involve borrowing money and paying back more, then you don’t have a choice.
Third party lending you money is RIBA
Houses can be rented too. End of. How is it justifiable to have a mortgage given that rent is prevalent?
Bilaal Ahmed rentingnfor life puts you in significant disadvantages. Plus owing a house has benefits
@@wanistani disadvantages vs benefits are irrelevant here. There is a halal option vs a haram option the rest is fluff.
Bilaal Ahmed I know it’s haram I’m explaining the reason why people may justify it. The system in this country has been made so it’s extremely difficult to own your own house unless you are very wealthy or reliance on banking system. That is not by accident.
@@wanistani and my point is it is injustifiable.
My understanding on how such deferred contracts are agreed, in the UK at least, is that the car company will get the full value of the car immediately from the financing company. Taking the example of $10,000 immediate payment or $12,000 deferred payment. Then the car company will get the $10,000 paid immediately to them by the financing company and then the financing company will receive $12,000 back from the customer over a longer period of time at fixed monthly payments for a fixed time. So your agreement is with the financing company for a loan, not with the car company. If you read the terms of the contract, it's with the financing company and not with the car company. Is this not riba? And Allah knows best.
that's fine. what matter is who own the car. if the financing ompany will buy the car and then you own them money that should be halal. but if they lease the money and the owner remain the manufacturer that's haram
He lost his senses totally. He bought a car with fixed interest rate. Ex, Cash Price is $10,000, 2 % fixed interest price for 5 years is $14000. What ever he pays over $10,000 is interest (RIBA). $4,000 is interest. He pays riba. He is guessing on first Hadith he quoted about Aysha and second Hadith states that Rasool allah submitted a collateral (security) as his armor. Then he will get it back once he paid the price. He totally confuses people to give wrong fatwa. May allah protect us all.
May Allah protect us indeed. Sometimes people start off with good intentions but shaytaan/societal pressures sway them off course in some matters. Allah knows best but every person has to be very careful these days in matters of deen. There is no shortage of confusion and those who firmly follow the straight path are few. May Allah guide us all and keep our hearts firm on his deen, Ameen.
Most - I would all the lease contract is HARAM..
What's he talking about? That's not how car leases work..
but a car lease payment has interest in it (the money factor)?
In Islam, there is no time value of money. Money cannot increase in value just because of time. Cash price and credit price must always be the same. Don't cherry pick hadiths and don't play a game of semantics. Charging more money than the principal sum is of course riba
Thank you for saying this clearly. This is the essence of the debate, not semantics. In order for western institutions to offer proper shariah compliant products they would have to fundamentally change the principles on which they operate. Interest is standard practise in this industry and no matter how you dress it up - the crux of the matter is the same. I wish more people realised that playing a game of words is not a sincere way to approach this matter and that these silly tactics won’t hold weight on the day of judgement. Allah knows what is truly in people’s hearts. May he save us all from evil.
Why doesn’t anyone get into the details of how the money we use loses value. For example if I gave you $200 in 2018,and you give me back $200 in 2023, you didn’t actually pay me back what I gave you, since the dollar has lost value. Why are scholars so lazy to not account for this? We are not dealing in gold and silver, we are using highly inflationary fiat currencies. The scholars need to educate themselves about how the financial system actually works. You are foolish if you are comparing the riba of the 1000BC ppl requiring you double or triple the gold they loaned out vs today a bank charging 8% in the country where the federal reserve is inflating the currency by 5% yearly. You don’t need to be a finance PHD to see how different that is.
Sorry sir i respect u but m not agreed wd u.i really wonder why hundreds of ulemas look st ds thing so naively.
Bro please do not add, anything if there is no mention of hike in price for prophetSAW food from jew for why you hypothetically adding and committing bidah, my grocer used to give same food he can sell for cash to pay in one month or 2, you can’t compare the facts surrounding the contract that time were exactly the same as today, please do not mislead your listeners.