How Australian Meteors Fought MiGs in Korea - Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2023
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In 1951, the Royal Australian Air Force temporarily pulled their Mustang equipped 77 Squadron out of combat in the Korean War in order to convert it to Gloster Meteor F8. Unable to purchase F-86 Sabre from the USA, Australian government bought the best fighter Great Britain could offer. This airplane however would prove to be inferior to the fighter used by the communist side - MiG-15. Australian pilots struggled against Soviet pilots but occasionally achieved some success. In part one, we will talk about the early engagements flown by the pilots of No 77 Squadron RAAF.
Main sources:
- Peter Caygill - Meteor from the Cockpit: Britains First Jet Fighter
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- Philip D. Chinnery - Combat Over Korea
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- Michael Napier - Korean Air War: Sabres, MiGs and Meteors, 1950-53
amzn.to/3NqwAKd
- Thomas McKelvey Cleaver - MiG Alley: The US Air Force in Korea, 1950-53
amzn.to/3MYSXVQ
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#raaf #militaryaviationhistory #militaryaviation #mig15 - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
There was one Australian Gloster Meteor F.8 pilot named George Hale who successfully shot down 2 MiG-15s and now his Gloster Meteor F.8 which have the two MiG-15 silhouettes on the aircraft is one display in an Australian Aviation Museum.
George Hale's fight with the MiGs will be shown in part 2. Don't miss it! 😁
I've been in the cockpit :)
@@showtime112 I look forward to seeing that
@@solreaver83 Outstanding
See, that's what a glorious bastard really is. Have a beer on me mate.
Just for future reference, it's 'R Double-A F' 👍
Thanks! It did sound a bit awkward 😁
I was friends with Les Reading and had the honour of flying with him several times in a Pitts S2A. He told me the Mig 15 story personally. His kill was indeed confirmed. Les was a great man and sadly passed away recently. I’m fortunate to have a meteor print signed by him.
Thanks for sharing this! Yes, the MiG damaged by Reading apparently didn't make it back to base.
@@showtime112 He told me about the engagement in detail. He said it was trailing smoke and fluid and going down and he was sure there was no way it could have made it back to base but he couldn’t follow it.
I once met a former 2RAAF pilot who told me that the favourite song in the mess was the cutsy 50s Xmas song “All I want for Christmas is my wings swept back…
South Africa also sent 2 Sqn SAAF to Korea, flying both Mustangs and F86 Sabres. My dad, Tinky Jones, flew his first two tours on Mustangs as part of the first deployed contingent.
Thanks for sharing. I might cover SAAF in Korea someday too.
The Meteor was discovered to go into an unrecoverable spiral dive if you exceeded its mach limit, this was not understood until an RAF pilot ejected from such a dive, he jettisoned the canopy only to find that the slip stream stopped him reaching the pull down mask that fired the early Martin Baker seat. He eventually succeeded by working his hands up his face to reach it. It is characteristic of the Meteor that we see in this video pilots losing control in dives and it is now thought that many more Australian pilots were killed by this than Mig 15 gunfire, because these later more powerful Meteors were in level flight only marginally below their mach limit and it was in the adrenaline rush of combat easy to trip over it. The irrecoverable dive was caused by wing twisting to a negative angle of attack as the centre of pressure moved towards the rear and spiral by the centrifugal forces generated by the large centrifugal compressors of the Derwent engines.
Did the debt ceiling deal really save the US from bankruptcy?...🤔
th-cam.com/video/fwZWYqcFvCY/w-d-xo.html
Damn ☹️☹️☹️
Thank you for providing info! These early jets were extremely dangerous to fly and accident loss rates are something that would be totally unacceptable today.
@@showtime112 Yes, if I recall correctly the RAF lost nearly 400 pilots in Meteor crashes, which is horrific in the context of an aircraft they never took into combat and was only acceptable as it was seen in the context of war time experience.
Were the centrifugal compressors not offered in contra rotating form for just such an eventuality? This was known and compensated for in every twin-engined propeller driven aircraft. Why would this knowledge suddenly exit the arena when turbine engines were introduced? I can well understand that the transonic regime was especially awkward and while engaged in a dogfight quickly forgotten. The transonic conundrum was not dealt with in whole till the Chermin wind tunnel testing data was fully grasped. (which was regrettably too late for many pilots) The first American jets from Lockheed would have none of it. Only the all flying tail from the British 'Miles Company' allowed the Bell X-1 to cross the transonic into supersonic realm without killing its pilots. As an important aside, the MIG 15 was also thought to be unrecoverable in a spin. A red line was painted on the dashboard, with its purpose being to tell the pilot where to place the joystick, if the MIG had not recovered by such action, ejection was the only immediate action recommended by MIG. (as reported by Chuck Yeager on test flying the first recovered flight worthy MIG 15, according to its defecting pilot.)
In addition, as noted in Gen. Chuck Yeager's book, where he covers the breaking of the sound barrier (so to speak) that many of these significant details (without attribution) were allowed to sneak through. The Bell X-1 had a wing of such short length and chord, that it had a minimal effect on the shock wave formation or interference. The shock wave (at a guess) was trailing many metres beyond the wing's extension from the fuselage. It was not area ruled, and used a brute force methodology to great effect as it turned out. A technique found to be much less successful in the F-102, and when corrected in the F106, became possibly the finest climb to height supersonic aircraft for some/many decades.
The effectiveness of raw power is demonstrated in the many daily launches of rockets today in 2023.
ahh i never knew meteors ever fought in combat - everyday a school day
Thank you for the feedback!
Meteors were used in combat operations over Britain defending against V1s. They just didn't have the legs (or the numbers, only 20 in one squadron) to get over to Germany to face off against ME 262s.
Great video. A history teacher of mine who served in the Korean War with the US Army told me that they preferred close air support by the RAAF because the Aussies were the most aggressive.
Thank you for the feedback and for reporting that piece of historical information!
🤥
@@guaporeturns9472 why would somone lie about that 😭 grow up
@@flr_nic Wby are you crying? Need a hug?
RAAF 77 Squadron was re-tasked to ground attack once it was fully realized the Meters we outclassed by the MIG15.
My grandfather flew Meteor Mk.4 in the Argentine Air Force in the early 50's... He had an accident where he and another Meteor touched their wings in flight, causing him to lose control...He had to jump out of the cockpit because the Mk. 4 did not have an ejection seat...The parachute did not open correctly causing the fall and the impact with the ground to be stronger than normal...He had a slight concussion to the head due to the impact with the ground
Thanks for sharing! Your grandfather was quite lucky under the circumstances.
@@showtime112 Yeah...But the most ironic is that he died on the same date but 10 years later flying in a Douglas C-54 (although of the 3 pilots on board he was not flying) in an accident in Central America during the events of the Cuban Missile Crisis where Argentina sent military personnel to the United States.
@@tomigrunge Sorry to hear it. It was indeed an extremely dangerous profession.
Wow had no clue these Jets even fought in the Korean war great job research sir...
Thanks! Korea is a lot more than just Sabres and MiG-15s and I intend to cover more of it.
Just a quick shout out to my aussie brothers in arms. Fought alongside the legends of australia while in combat in Afghanistan and it was an honor. Scrappy fighters with a good sense of humor, fair dinkum. We had so much in common that it seemed the only difference were accents and slang. We all got along like brothers, it was great. If you put american grunts with aussie grunts, we are unstoppable. I would fight alongside them again any day.
When the Australians eventually did get Sabres, they built what was probably the best of them all, with the Rolls Royce Avon engine and a pair of 30mm cannon - and later, AIM-9B Sidewinders. There was talk of fitting British Firestreak missiles, as one of the Avon Sabres had acted as a test-bed for Firestreak at Woomera, but they found that the electronics needed to support the more complicated Firestreak had nowhere else to fit but in the gun bays. This was not acceptable to the RAAF, and they went with Sidewinder instead, which made far less volume demand on the aircraft for its wiring.
Another great job 112. I knew about F-80's and F-86's and F-84's and F4U's and F9F's and F3D's in that war but didn't know anyone flew the Meteor. Your research is awesome.
Thank you! Australian role was a bit neglected but they offered a very serious commitment in that war.
RAAF 77 squadron flew over 18,000 sorties in the Korean War. 40 pilots were killed, seven were captured. Lest We Forget.
@@gtpumps thanks for that. We love our friends down under. My Dad wad a submarine sailor in WWII. Their port between patrols was Freemantle if I remember right.
@@donparker1823 Thanks for your Dad's service. My uncle was in the Australian Army and served in Korea and many great uncles and cousins fought in WW1 and WW2. At the Battle of Kapyong an Australian battalion (approximately 800 soldiers) along with another from Canada defeated an entire Chinese division (approximately 15,000 men) and prevented it from taking Seoul. Both battalions were awarded US Presidential Unit Citations. Australia also had a carrier the HMAS Sydney the aircraft (Sea Furies and Fireflys) flew 2,700 missions in Korea.
@@gtpumps awesome, that’s why we love you guys.
@Showtime112, great work as usual and thank you for following up on my suggestion.
The Australian govt looked at quite a few options to replace the Mustang, including the unbuilt Hawker P.1081 (which was a stepping stone to the Hunter). I believe the Grumman F9F Panther came a close second to the Meteor; however, the Panther offered few advantages in performance and I think there would have been difficulties with spare parts, if not the supply of aircraft themselves, from Grumman (for the same reasons why the F-86 was unavailable).
2 Sqn SAAF (South African Air Force) did get Sabres in Korea, but ... the South Africans were totally integrated into a USAF wing during that war and operated as a de facto US squadron. In contrast, 77 Sqn RAAF was ostensibly in Korea to provide the Australian Army with close air support. So it was technically outside direct USAF command, although in practice 77 Sqn often undertook joint ops with USAF units (like the escort of B-29s shown).
Thank you for the feedback and providing info! South African Air Force in Korea is a topic I've been considering for a while. I'll definitely cover it one day.
This is the first I have heard of this and I have read a lot about the Korean War. "Don't show up on a battlefield with the second best fighter plane or second best tank!"
The focus is mostly on Sabres and MiGs but there were many aircraft in lesser roles. I find those even more interesting.
the meteor was a piece of crap and was kept far away from any ME262 .!
@@franciscruickshank8794 Incorrect. Please stop spreading misinformation on the internet.
@@franciscruickshank8794 Do some historical research and maybe try having an IQ over 80 and you’d realise your comment makes no sense.
@@franciscruickshank8794 The Meteor was in service before the Me262. There were only 20 in service, 5 of which were F1 variants, the rest being F3s. They were used in combat actions but were used to defend Britain (intercepting V1s), so never met Me 262s, which were too far away defending German airspace.
My great great uncle was a raaf flying officer during the Korean War and fought in WW2 over Europe as a wireless op/air gunner
Never knew a lot about Meteors over Korea, definitely interesting to watch.
Thank you for the feedback, I love those 'forgotten' stories.
Looking forward to part two
It'll be there sooner than you know it 😀
I once had flying lessons from an Australian veteran who bailed out of one of these over Korea... I was too young and foolish to appreciate his tutelage . But I imagine he taught many youngsters, as he was associated with the Scouting movement.
Thank you for sharing this! What was his name? Some pilots who ejected will be mentioned in part 2.
And I got taught to fly by a Romanian defector who flew MiG’s in eastern Russia from 1948 to 1950 (when he decided he would like to visit Japan…).
My dad was in 77 squadron flying Mustangs over Korea right from Day 1. They flew for about a year before their CO was shot down by a Mig 15. They basically grounded the P-51's after that and waited for the Meteors to arrive. Dad was pulled out before that happened, but found himself being sent to England to do their Test Pilots Course for the next 3 years. Upon his return, he was the RAAF's chief Test Pilot for many years. I still have the silk maps he used as a fighter pilot & a set of goggles that look like WW2 issue.
Thank you very much for sharing your experience! I hope to do a video about Australian Mustangs in Korea one day.
Hello mate. A authentic vidéo from Korea. It was fantastic to watch an outdated plane vs Mig15.
You will find few pictures of "halestorm"in your email.
Waiting part2 desperatly
Found them, thanks! Part two will be here soon :)
Thanks for this, much appreciated Showtime✊️
Thank you for the positive feedback!
The last RAAF fighter kill was in Korea an F8 Meteor flown by Flying officer Hale shot down a MiG 15 at low level ,the date escapes me.The Mig was in the Meteor s best place ,low down and paid for his mistake .
That episode is reenacted in part two, watch it if you haven't.
LOVE IT! Subbed! And thanks
Thank you very much!
Always very well done showtime. Thanks.
Thank you very much for your positive feedback!
Fantastic video. Its good to learn about others AFs contibutions in the Korean War. The video clearly shows the difference between Soviets and NKs pilots
Thanks a lot! Yes, the quality of communist pilots was at its peak early in the war. Afterwards, it really dropped.
RAAF 77 Squadron was in action in Korea only 4 weeks after the war started.
Australia also had a carrier the HMAS Sydney the aircraft (Sea Furies and Fireflys) flew 2,700 missions in Korea.
Really enjoyable video!
Thank you!
Superb, thanks!
Thank you for commenting!
Thanks for the video
Had no prior knowledge of RAAF in Korea
Thank you for the feedback! Watch part two this Saturday for more.
These computer graphics really gives the viewer a clear picture of what happened. The Meteor, piloted by Australian pilots, gave a good account of itself in going against the faster and more agile Mig 15. Pilot training was the saving grace for the Meteor pilots.They used a dated aircraft shoot down some of the "best" that the Communist could put up. Really like the Meteor airplanes and the skill level of the pilots flying them.
Love your content!!!!!❤
Thank you, I'm happy to hear it. And thank you for staying with the channel for so long!
Very interesting. I do enjoy learning about those parts of history few people pay attention too.
And, I'll have to acknowledge the sheer brass balls the Aussies had to take on MiG 15s in Meteors.
Thanks for the comment! Yes, you know your enemy is better but you still fight. Admirable!
I know things get dramatized over time, but it's not like the Soviets had some super-fighter in the Fagot.. You still had to find your targets by eye back then too, either side had a bigger advantage when they achieved surprise as opposed to having slightly better performance. I think the battle accounts presented here back that claim up. I mean, the Meteors are getting hits and at least one kill in exchange for their losses already in part 1 even though they are "outclassed". The Migs can't just show up and operate with impunity against them, they take a shot or two and piss off before they end up in a turning fight, probably.
We have always had big balls shown in every war. Beersheba WW1. Special Z Force WW2 rowing fold up canoes in to Singapore harbor to attach limpet mines.
Vietnam SASR were most feared VC records say even scared them to go out on ambushes as worried the Aussies would ambush them instead.
We are known to do things other's wouldn't think of.
@@nedkelly9688 Yes - but we shouldn't boast about it too much.
@@nedkelly9688 Battle Of Kapyong we were outnumbered and still kicked the Chinese 1-10 . 300 from 3RAR and 300 from Canadians killed up to 5000 Chinese
Good discipline only claiming damages rather than kills.
Yes, I suppose they had strickt rules about claim recognition.
What fascinated me about the Gloster meteor is it was achieving altitudes at 60,000 ft
Nicely done.👍👍
Thanks a lot for the feedback!
Nice job mate 🍻🤙🦘
a good read on this subject is One of the more obscure pieces of information was that a couple of colour-blind pilots, who shouldn't have been able to qualify for the role, were better at spotting camouflaged enemy because of their colour-blindness!
That's interesting. Using weakness as a strength!
Very good indeed.
I'm happy to hear it, thanks!
G'donya mate, nice piece of "forgotten history"
That's my favorite kind of history. Thank you for your comment!
Great video, unfortunately the tail markings on the Mustangs is 3 Squadron RAAF
Thank you for the comment! I didn't have the proper 77 Squadron skin for the Mustang or good historical footage so this is an improvisation.
Dad was in RAAF, based in Iwakuni. They had also US Black Windows flown out at night, which he complained preventing the lads having a good sleep.😅
Thanks for sharing. They had their own Bed-check Charlies I guess 😁
What isn't mentioned here is there was a huge of amount of real world combat experience on both sides. WW2 was only 5-6 years in the past and both the West and Soviet flyers were veterans and in some cases Aces. I doubt there has been air battle since we everyone knew what they were doing. I pity the newby pilots on both sides over Korea in 1950+
I read an account of an F-86 pilot. (I have forgotten his name) He was on the tail of a Mig 15. The N. Korean pilot didn't know what he was doing. He'd pull his air brakes in & out, he tried amateurish evasive maneuvers to no avail. He stayed with the Mig for several minutes withholding his fire. He said that he actually felt bad killing an amateur like that but finally did. What I remember most though was, this was the first time he really got a good look at a Mig-15. He had fought them before but with everything happening so fast, he didn't get a close look at one. He said, "It was beautiful. A real sports car of an airplane".
True, both sides had plenty of pilots with WWII experience early in the war. Even many aces.
Thanks!
Thank you very much for your generous donation! It will be put to good use!
Hear in denmark the airforce flew Meteors in the sixtys together with Super Sabre and f-104 starfighters
My understanding is that one of the problems with the Mig15 was that its cannons were meant for use against bombers, not other fighters.
True. MiG's cannons had low muzzle velocity and there were two different calibers with different ballistics. Hitting a maneuvering fighter was hard.
Love the video. We are known as the R double A F.
Thanks for the comment and for the pronunciation info. It did seem a bit awkward so I mostly just used the full name instead of the acronym. It was probably my intuition telling me to check it but I didn't listen 😁
Cool stuff! 👍🏻👏🏻💪🏻🍻🍻
Thanks again Pappa, good to hear from you!
May I please extend my thanks to the author, that Australia is remembered as a participant in the Korean campaign. The relationship Austrlai had with the USA in conflicts was within the ANZAC accords, with New Zealand being a significant force, considered of high value. The US had limited allies, and the most likely threatened were the nations of the Southern Hemisphere, directly below the geography of South East Asia. We had far more to lose than did any nation, without the consideration of ideological differences of enormous significance, which the Americans took on, perhaps not always under the most favourable circumstances, we now see in hindsight, but always as a permanent pressure on the inherent nature of Soviet expansionist dogma. A factor often forgotten with the passing of any present threat.
Thank you for the feedback!
Very interesting.
Glad you think so, thank you!
The magnificent ✨️ 👌 flying it took to master a 1st generation jet like the Meteor in combat is breathtaking. ❤️
Thanks for the comment!
I never knew that Australia fought the MIG-15s in the Korean War flying F.8 Meteor's. I always thought only USAF F-80s and F-86s did all the fighting. Thanks for the history lesson. Thanks Australia , Your good people.
Thank you for the feedback!
If your American im not surprised you dont know. American history is very self focused.
It’s important to include the US Navy and The Royal Navy FAA
South Africa also sent 2 Sqn SAAF to Korea, flying both Mustangs and F86 Sabres. My dad, Tinky Jones, flew his first two tours on Mustangs as part of the first deployed contingent.
As much as I like the Meteor I have to admit it was a lousy fighter. Facing Mig15s in that thing was brave.
It was pretty good when it came out but the development tempo was incredible at that time. Two years back then was probably something like 20 years in our time.
The F86 SABRES were sorely needed for these confrontations for sure! Thanks Showtime112 and could you also do a reenactment of the battle of Captain Joseph C. McConnell against 12 MIG15's? The Real Top Gun! Thanks much appreciated!
Thank you for appreciating the video! The story you suggest is an interesting one, it might be done in the future. But I'm not sure when since my inspiration for topics is unpredictable :)
Tracer often warns pilot they are under attack with gyroscope gunsight negating need for tracer and keeping the element of surprise. Vital .
Yes, tracers a double-edged sword.
Being a former RAAF pilot in the mid 1980s with the Mirage 3 the Meteor was a very heavy aircraft it couldn't out turn a mig it was slow in a dive the cannons would frequently jam up ! It wasn't up to scratch it wasn't till the mid 1950s till the RAAF got the CA27 Sabre which was far too late 😢😮
Thanks for commenting! Must have been a nice career flying a legendary aircraft such as the Mirage.
Deploy in this context, means to move into position for military action. You don't 'deploy' to the rear. You withdraw. The P-51 squadron 'withdrew' to Japan to convert to Meteors.
Makes sense
Seems to be a theme. RAAF soldiered on with p40's and tired Spitfires throughout the majority of WW2. Even little NZ upgraded to Corsairs.
Don't U mean new zulland ??? Lol
You could say so. But realistically, there was no other jet option for them at the time. Perhaps they could have bought Thunderjets or something but it wouldn't have made any difference.
*(New Subsciber)*
Great videos!
( I visited Dubrovnik a few years ago...was wonderful!)
Thank you for your appreciation of the content! I hope you visit again.
About 3 years ago I had an older gent (older than me!) do some work on a electro mechanical machine. It was full of vacuum valves etc and he got it running very quickly. While he was working we chatted about the valves etc and he told me he learned his electronics on Sabre Jets!. He was in charge of the RAAF's simulator which was full of valves and the whole thing was as big as a house.
On the subject of Mustangs, at the end of WW2 the Americans decided they didn't need all their aircraft and gifted the aircraft used in the pacific war to New Zealand,including all of the spares . A thriving scrap industry was soon operating and as a kid I had little tractors and trailers made from cast aluminium ie, melted down WW2 fighter planes.
But the Americans decided that they needed another war and set forth to 'assist' the South Koreans fight off the communist North. Their air craft were of course Mustangs ,of which they still had quite a few flying examples ....but no maintenance parts.
So off to New Zealand went a US government official who demanded NZ give back what spare engines etc they might have ,those that weren't already melted down .Those were retrieved from Hamilton in the North Island where hundreds of planes had been left a few years earlier . A lot of the Alison engines were used in racing hydroplane boats and one brave soul had one in a Dragster.
one of my uncles had a part time job maintaining one in a hydroplane and despite having more experience working on Bus engines soon had it running quite well.
Ironically the MiG and the Meteor shared the same jet engine technology
Yes, because a brilliant, inspired move by the British government :)
WOW very impressive
Glad you liked it!
Old school and very cool
Thanks for the comment!
I remember a book called "MIG Meat" when I was a boy, so long ago I remember nothing of it but the title says it all.
Seems appropriate as the Meteors were more on the receiving end in that battle.
Muchas gracias. Muy interesante el vídeo. Lastima por los Aussies que volaban en jets más antiguos
Thank you for your feedback!
great vid, wt is optimal for vids because of all the huge range of planes they have.
Thanks! Yes, the range of the tech tree is quite amazing.
@@showtime112 yeh they got everything
82ND AIRBORNE
Meteors... fascinating.
Nothing like a nice, obscure story from a 'forgotten' war! 😁
Awesome
Thank you very much!
What languages are you learning Showtime112 and which ones are you planning to learn in the future?
Apart from English, I have a useful knowledge of Italian and a limited knowledge of Brazilian Portuguese. I have also studied Latin, German and Mandarin Chinese but I don't really have any useful knowledge of those. Currently, there' isn't enough time for a new one although Spanish seems attractive.
@@showtime112 Ok, nice to know that you are into learning languages too. I speak a total of 9 languages, mostly European (the ones that you just mentioned and a few more like French and Dutch) and am planning to learn more. I am also interested in Latin and Ancient Greek and can speak Latin, in a way, I am connected to Scorpio Martianus (Luke Ranieri) through another Latinist.
@@veritasardens6547 Nine is an impressive number! My 'problem' is that I have so many things I'm interested in and not enough time to perfect them all 😁
Thanks for this, from Australia. As a history enthusiast I’ve only been familiar with the ground actions of the Royal Australian Regiment army battalions during the Korean War. Knowledge of the history of the RAAF squadrons in the war is something I’ve been lacking. Thanks for this educational video.
Thank you for the feedback and don't miss part two next weekend!
@@showtime112Just one small tip regarding how Australians say RAAF:
The professional way when speaking is to call it the R “double A” F.
Kind regards.
Amazing that the Korean (North) pilots had any abilities at all, after flying for more than about 1/2 an hour to 45 minutes above 30,000' The Mig 15's had no cabin heat and the efficacy of the "electric blanket" flight suits was dubious.
A good change in topic . .
Korean War was long neglected on the channel, glad you liked it!
@@showtime112 try to bring into spot light a few north korean pilots, who scored kills . . .
@@showtime112 Kim Den Dek and Kim Di San were two north korean aces, whose victories were later confirmed by the west . .
@@iftikharfaridy2974 I plan to research Chinese MiG-15 pilots in this conflict. I think there are some interesting stories there too.
Great video 112 (standardno) 👍
Hvala još jednom, Medo! (standardno) 😁
Should the Meteors have the Australian roundel or did they fly them with the RAF roundel? Curious.
The red kangaroo wasn't adopted until 1956
The roundels were the same in this period. You can only tell them apart by serial numbers. Or by nose art that some carried.
Do you know when the started using the kangaroo in red?
Didn't see your info above. thanks!
If the torque from one those old Derwent engines was enough to twist the wing, imagine how much torque the high-bypass turbo fan engines on an A380 would generate.
I did’t know that the Audis even had meteors
He served with No. 77 Squadron of the Royal Australian Air Force in the Korean War. During this war, Australian Air Force pilots operated as part of US Air Force fighter groups that provided combat cover for B-29 strategic bombers. During air battles during the war, only in battles with fighters manned by Soviet pilots, 26 Gloster Meteor aircraft were shot down [3]. At the same time, the Meteors failed to shoot down a single Soviet aircraft [4]. According to official data from Australia, 54 Meteor fighters were lost during the war.
Perhaps the MiG-15s of the Chinese Air Force were shot down? Soviet sources do not recognize any victory from the Meteors. The memoirs write that the Meteors were an easy target, compared to the F-86 "saber"
Imagine if Australia got to deploy mirage111/0 to Vietnam, would have made some awesome content
Yes, it would have been interesting. Did they have air refueling capability?
Fascinating. That's the first time I've heard that the USA refused the RAAF's request for Sabres.
Australia went on to make it's own version of the Sabre the CAC CA-27.
With the Korean War in full swing and the Cold War requirements, they could hardly spare any for export. Thanks for commenting!
@@showtime112 An alternate explanation is that the world's largest military-industrial complex didn't give a toss about it's allies.
@@WgCdrLuddite
The U.S also refused to supply R-2800 engines for the CAC CA-15 during WW2 so we had to wait for British griffon engines instead.
Aus went on to build their own under licence with different engines ( RR I think) and cannons instead of 50 cals, apparently better performance than the US models.
Excellent work! Just so you know, we generally pronounce RAAF as "R double-A F", although when I was in the air cadets in the mid-1970's I got the bright idea of pronouncing it "Rarf" just to annoy the Flight Sergeant. From memory I paid for this crime with about 20 push-ups...
Thanks! I have been warned multiple times. Funny thing, that guy who made a recent video about a runaway light plane in Australia in the 1950s apparently wasn't warned about it, although he pronounces it just like me 😁
@@showtime112 if you are civilian then you just get written off as a civvie. If you are military from somewhere else and you own up to your mistake, you start earning respect. If you are from our military and you didn’t know, then you are a (something that youtube won’t let me post). If you are a recruit and ask a question the sergeant cannot answer, you get a smack in the mouth 😉👍🇦🇺
Just one small tip regarding how Australians say RAAF:
The professional way when speaking is to call it the R “double A” F.
Kind regards.
Thanks, there were a few comments of similar nature. Btw, it's not going to be correct in part two because it was finished before this one was released :)
Lesson learned dont fly meteors against migs
Generally, you could say that.
@@showtime112 hahahahha
How about the Meteor vs. flying saucer incident in 1952.
Winkle Brown reported a UFO in 1956 when flying a de Havilland Vampire.
A little bit forgotten war, so it was really nice to watch this movie
I haven't done any Korean War videos in ages. It was about time to correct it. Thanks for the comment!
It sure took a lot of balls to fly the Meteor especially in combat against faster aircrafts like the Mig-15...
They were certainly brave.
There is considerable evidence that the problem with 77SQNs transition to Meteors was not so much the aircraft but the lack of a proper transition from propeller Mustangs to Meteor F8 jets which require a completely different approach to fighting. Managing the energy state of a propeller fighter is entirely different from a jet. The Meteor was no slouch and had the same Mcrit as the Me-262 that of M0.82. (the same as the Me-262) Meteor IVs had claimed the world air speed record of 616mph at sea level which represents Mach 0.81 in the bumpy, dense air down low, without showing any control issues. The F8 had a MCrit of M 0.82 and the MiG 0.92. At 35,000' this represents a difference of just 60mph-not an overwhelming advantage. If the Meteor could draw the MiG into a turning fight the MiGs poorer stability (as was discovered during testing of a captured example along with its relatively low MCrit for a swept wing fighter) and the control ineffectiveness that happened shortly after passing M 0.92, meant that the Meteors would likely have done much better given a proper work up. The Meteor had a lower wing loading (44 vs 49) giving better turn performance
Thank you for your elaborate comment!
I never knew Meteors were in the Korean War.
It's a pretty overlooked story.
Those Meteors looked like they had controlability issues, that or the pilots were still too green flying the new airframe.
Or it's just my poor flying 😁 WT isn't exactly a serious sim but those things are a handful on high altitude. If you pull the stick a bit harder, they simply start rolling out of control.
The Meteor had many handling issues in particular if you exceeded its mach limit it would go into on unrecoverable spiral dive, at altitude this mach limit was only marginally higher than their speed in level flight, they literally were operating on a knife edge.
@@grahamariss2111 it looked like a brick no surprise it didnt fly well
Our pilots drew on 3 years more ww2 experience than your lot had mate.
@@sugarnads Not really, I'm from Canada and we were in the war from the very beginning.
Great advert for British technology there. NO. Not the Meteor but the Mig 15 which owed a great deal to the British gifting jet engines and knowhow to the Soviets post WW2. Poor decision to say the least.
Yes, looking back it seems like an extremely naive idea.
the British gifted the engines to the USA, the Russians paid for their one
@@georgebarnes8163 Yes. But all their Christmases came at once when they paid for the engines. The gift was the technology inappropriately.
Extraordinary story. The Meteor was operationnal on july 1944. But Churchill didn't allowed it to fight outside of England. He was afraid that the German copied their technology. So it participated to the fight against the V1 in England. I didn't know that australian Meteor fought in Corea against MIG-15 that have been piloted by russian. To obtain a victory with this kind of plane it's a veritable performance.
I'm glad you liked this one too! I really like those 'underdog' stories. Sabres fought many successful battles against the MiGs but the story of an outdated aircraft which still soldiered on and sometimes succeeded doing its job is something special.
MiG 15 is a beautiful bird.. Meteor is an ugly turd
Je vais essayer de lavoir des que possible. J'envoie à showtime des photos d'époque des météor australien prise a Pusan et Kimpo
@@dominiqueroudier9401 Cet épisode vaut le coup et il y aura une deuxième partie !!!
@@jeannezehner9450 on va le visionner avec cousin a ma femme. Pour ton arrière grand père, le sien était chef de gare (membre FFI) a château Thierry car noeud ferroviaire pour logistique allemande vers Normandie ( envoi d'information pour sabotage ferroviaire)
Loving the graphics.
It didn't really matter how good the Meteor was, the very fact that they were there was enough to make the N Korean pilots nervous.
Thanks for the comment!
Whoa.
Thanks for the comment!
The only aircraft that could match and defeat the MIG 15 was the F 86 Sabre the F 84 the Tornado the panther and the meteor were all just so much target practice for the Migs
Yes, those two were in a league of their own.
Meteor looks like a flying brick
I don't know, I think it's not a bad looking design.
the RAAF had a Red Kangaroo in the white circle with a blue ring around it, good video though, thanks
Not until 1956
The South African Air Force (who actually got hold of F-86s later) were the first to change from the RAF roundel: they used a Springbok in their roundel during the Korean war. An RAAF Mosquito squadron in Britain (during WW2) used a (small) kangaroo roundel on the nose (but "proper" RAF roundels elsewhere) to show that they were Australian, but as @rodneypayne4827 says, it wasn't until 1956 that the kangaroo roundel was used. And even then, it was originally used only in the fuselage position, the RAF one was used on the wings for a while.
Thanks for the comment. At the time, RAAF's roundels were the same as RAF's.
Thanks for the additional info!
Aussies could have done better if flying F-86 Sabres or French Mystere's. Hello from India.
Those were not available. Mystere was introduced to service after the Korean War and Americans couldn't deliver the Sabre before1954.
The mystère didn't exist yet
We eventually made our own Sabres, with 4 x 20mm cannon and a better engine
@@roberthorst5790 I see
@@showtime112 I see
The camera and cinematic work is really stunning with this one. Loved the slanted camera intro shots in particular. High altitude flying and fighting looks so beautiful compared to all the deck level fighting one always see's in War Thunder.
And as always this was another good look at a rather lopsided matchup. And based on what others in the comments are saying, the MiG's in many ways were the least of the Meteor pilots problems.
Thanks for the comment! Yes, those fights mostly took place on high altitude. Meteor pilots were generally at a disadvantage.
The Master of Sinanju would have been VERYYYY upset at B29s over his town...
No wonder they went out of service not long after...
By 1951 the Meteor was obsolete.
Yes, the pace of aircraft development was incredible in those years.
👍
Hvala!
Sweep wing vs straight wing aeronautical design..
MIGS has so many flaws. They stalled during a fast climb causing many to crash.
Sure, but practically all of those early jets were dangerous to fly and suffered extremely high loss rates.
06:42
But what became of Item 2? Did he bail out?
He managed to pull out of the spin eventually.