DS is poop now. How far can a survivor go with a 3 second stun? The stun timer of the DS starts immediately, so part of that time is spent getting off the shoulder of the killer. What does that even do? Wastes 7 more seconds of killer's time to pick the survivor up again? In the older days of Dbd, DS was such a threat you had to assume everyone had it. If everyone brings it now, is it really a threat or is it more like every survivor has 1 less perk to worry about?
Just because tunneling is easier and a strong strat doesn't mean you need to do it. You nearly tied without tunneling which is fair. A tie is even for both sides.
@@shoonseiki nothing even if you playing really better then your opponents. There was So many good shreds from otz and So many misplays from survivors, and yet still, draw.
I forgot to define "Tunneling" for those unaware: "Focusing your hooks on the same Survivor repeatedly in order to get them out of the way as quickly as possible." Sometimes tunneling happens deliberately, sometimes it's accidental, sometimes it's even forced.
I tunneled once when a surrivor t bagged while I was using morbing frenzy mode, then surprised him by dropping the hit and run and straight to m1 and hooks ,then the entire group formation died and merciless killer with no double pip.
What I hate honestly is when you are a chill killer where you don't tunnel, you might even knock someone and not hook them because you felt bad. And then the whole group still acts like a dick
For your own sake of mental. Play what makes you happy. Even if you play nice and go for 12 hooks people will still be toxic so just play for yourself. Also when you down someone and don't hook them most people assume you're slugging. Good luck being chill as killer. :C
I totally understand that. Though, i still commit myself to not tunnel. Maybe i do it for "Honor of the hunt". Maybe because i want people to have as fun as me and have a chance to actually play the game, and not being tunneled right off the hook and downed again. Sometimes, being the nice guy doesn't even slow down my way to 4k. Sometimes, i don't even make it to 4 hooks. Entity's will ! But i never tunnel cause i see no fun, then i feel no fun.
The reason why tunneling is so common is because there is no reward for not doing so, Doesn't matter how many Punishment you add on camping or tunneling, Killers will resort to more and more aggressive tunneling method or camp. It was a huge mistake for Behavior to nerf perks that encourage leaving hooked survivors, Because it doing so, they removed the incentive to not tunnel, which results in more tunneling.
I think that artist perk should be basekit if you hook all the survs once, all gens would be blocked for some time it would rewarding killers for hooking multiple survivors
it's also borderline necessary. As a killer main, i find that the fun I have in games is pretty dependent on what the survivors choose. If they gen rush or even play efficiently I basically have to tunnel someone out to stablise.
@@Lyahrklol I mean, with that same reasoning, there needs to be a basekit DS for everyone as long as more than 3 gens are standing. So no one gets tunneled out early game without a real deterrence for most killers who actually tunnel anyway.
@@Lyahrklol I was having the same thought. However, at this current state of the game I think it'd hurt the game more than help it. Oppressive killers such Blight, Spirit, and Nurse will become stronger. Plus, imagine triggering Eruption on 4 gens and then hooking the last person. The survuviors wouldn't even be able to stop the regression before it gets blocked. They'd have to do a huge meta shift and completely change perks to better suit having perks be basekit.
@@b1akn3ss93 I guess perks like BBQ and chili, where you get more BP if you get a hook all 4 survivors. Incentivize some people to get at least 1 hook on each survivor at early game. I guess the only one that still works is No Way Out since it adds more time to blocking the exit gate switch when you hook each survivor once.
@@pepethefrog6809 Its a fallacy that BBQ and Chili was an "anti-tunnel" perk. Killers could still tunnel with the perk on and by the end of the match, if they kill everybody, they would still get all the bloodpoints.
I love the mental battle of "pretend to be stupid" but getting punished for because the opponent was entirely expecting the stupid play. Playing so many steps ahead of them you ended up behind them.
@@bolt5916 ds doesnt need a buff, there needs to be a deterrrence like DS basekit untill at least 2 gens are finished. Same logic on disabling: doing anything to progress the game disables it, so if you get "tunneled" after you touched a gen, its on you. Heck, I think DS basekit for the first 2 gens would honestly be fine. Current killer pacing overall allows to go the old non-tunnel meta(hook s1, then hook s2, then s1 again, then s2 again or s3, then kill s1), but the soloq experience, even with the buffs, still allows for a relatively easy kill early on by just tunneling.
@@Predated2 lol no. I play like 60/40 killer/surv, escape majority of my games without second chance perks, it's a team game, if you're getting tunneled just buy as much time as you can for your team. Some games you just lose, that's fine. You don't hear me asking for corrupt intervention basekit despite how bad spawns can be for low mobility killers on large maps. Just play better, but accept some games you're just not going to win.
This comes down to the shortsightedness Behaviour has when it comes to balance changes. I'm not sure the balance team fully understands that the changes they make to the ecosystem of the game (all perks, items, addons, abilities, and maps working together) create problems that are exponential and stack upon themselves the more they get tweaked.
It's not just that, it's that they balance based on numbers instead of actual gameplay feedback. Most people who play the game at a decently high level know the easy common sense solution to so many of the issues the game has, but behavior doesn't care as long as the numbers look good.
It doesn’t help that they created an even more strict Meta since apparently “fixing it” they just made a new generation of stupidly strong perks that everyone runs and nerfed the old perks into being useless.
I think people like to blame developers for everything instead of just admitting the truth that it doesn't matter how "balanced" a game is, people are just a**holes..
@@Flex4LX there's no endurance meta, lol. Off the record? Pretty weak, easy to ignore this surv. Mettle? This perk kicks in one time in 10 matches or smth, pretty hard to get and survivor spending extra time on taking hits/healing, benefits to the killer. Dead hard? simply wait, lol
Although I wasn't sure on why this was happening, I did see a significant increase in the tunneling strategy in my games as a survivor. And I mean tunneling from the get go. Five gen tunneling.
@@22ina Hes not wrong. You can lose 3 gens within 10 seconds of one popping against a swf. After that two survs can blow through all of the maps pallets while the other 2 finish gens. At 2 gens it becomes almost impossible to beat a 4 man because they can now equally split gen pressure and chase time.
I still hold the opinion that the removal of the bonus BP from BBQ drastically attributed to the less healthy playstyles becoming more prevalent/popular, with old BBQ you were rewarded as killer to not "play like a dick" but without it you are just left to pick what is most effective and sometimes that isnt fun :^)
AGREED! keep BBQ/CHILI bonus, but no bonus for We're Gonna Live Forever because that perk caused SO MANY 'farming simulator' moments that you could tell when a survivor had it. NOBODY sacrifices themselves for nothing lol
@@christopherestes6760 I was going to mention that earlier yeah. I don't think Survivors need it as much as killers do, and I actually prefer the new version of We're Gonna Live Forever with the endurance on pick-up over the older farming version.
Definitely. I used to play for 4 BBQ hooks all the time, with kills being a bonus. Now spreading hooks around is just a bad strategy. The only possible benefit is to rule out jumping off hook later in the game.
@FranK well camping isnt a meta, tunneling is, and proxy camping sure, but thats not really a meta, you dont base a meta off the worse killers, you base it off the better ones, and if a killer can manage their time and keep pressure then they wont even feel the need to tunnel
@@The300Player I'm not sure. I haven't gotten past the mail part yet. Then I chose to quite playing the game because it was the collection... In like 2 or 3 years I can probably answer your question.
I’ve felt this a lot recently, I took a break from the game due to being busy with life stuff and have been eager to get back. So many games since that break have just been tunnel after tunnel and I’m the first out of the game.
Yea sadly blame the survivor community. They complained so much about gen defense perks and got them nerfed that killers are adapting this tunnel and camping strat to even have a chance to win
@@JRG_REDD killers whine just as much sadly, they go against a few good survivors and then suddenly its the end of the world. they take it to twitter and complain and moan abt dead hard still, to this day. they complain abt adrenaline etc, survivors complain abt eruption, pain res dead man combo etc. ive just accepted that many ppl have fragile ego’s so they do something in a game bc someone shattered it, whether that being tunneling or being t-bagged and bullied.
@@SanrioSukuna 100% percent agreed. At the end of the you can't make everyone happy that's impossible. But the devs gotta take a bit of accountability for this. They're pushing the game in the wrong direction. Balancing for new and weak players only. They seem to forget that all these changes they make for them hurts a lot of the more competitive people like us and high level players. Which has created this toxic back and forth we have today. But of course the majority beats the minority and the majority is survivors so they are slowing pushing this game to the ground
I'm a big DbD lurker. I've never played the game, but for years now I've watched others play and taken part in discussions. And one thing I always thought seemed odd was how killers would have to go out of their way to "not be toxic" by playing sub-optimally. Less active players means slower gen progression, of course I'm going to target whoever I see that has the lowest amount of hooks remaining. Less gen progression then means more time in game, more opportunities to hooks, more opportunities to kill. It was always this one little bit of game design that bothered me.
And the worst part about it? Even if you go out of your way and make the game 50% harder on yourself, you still get offended by survivors. This game has the worst community I've ever seen, when I played, I couldn't play 2 matches straight where the survivors weren't trying their hardest to be jerks and make me feel bad.
honestly, u either know or dont know. There is a reason people complain usually and there is certainly BM behavior on both sides. I never get raged at as killer, no matter if im sweating or going ez. May have a lot to do with the killers i play too as they are typically considered to be the worst. @@matheusarantes2989
everyone finds bm to be different as well. Tunneling, face camp, these things irritate me. But nothing makes me more tilted than a killer slugging in a 2v1 to drag the game and secure both kills. Many people dont care about it but to me it is the ultimate BM. @@matheusarantes2989
and when i play killer, i hate feeling utterly disrespected by survivors. when they just run around and dont even try to stay hidden, or follow u to a hook and unhook instantly. i go full tryhard. tryhard survivors, teabagging, flashlights are all fairplay to me. Getting looped over and over is apart of the game. But i hate when people act like the killer is just not even there. Some are overconfident, some truly dont care, but all piss me off. @@matheusarantes2989
There comes a certain point when you play killer where you notice you can count the amount of times survs played nice on one hand. Then you see the teabags at the exit gate and ask yourself wait why am I handicapping myself again?
@@silentkhaos1176 Problem comes when you get into the next fist fight You brought the gun due to the last one bringing a knife, but this new opponent only brought their fists It’s a never ending cycle
@@evehellod9776 Yep. That's a perfect representation of the current DBD meta. When you get tired of being bullied, so you brought all the meta stuff, but then this causes you to bully someone else and then they bring their meta stuff the next game. A never ending cycle of casual gamers getting tired of being shit on by the meta.
@@evehellod9776 you can also always just play nurse and play extra sweaty vs the toxic people and try to meme vs noobs/casual while also not entirely throwing the game if you dont want to farm
@@evehellod9776 that's exactly the problem, when you get your ass kicked you wanna bring stronger stuff, but it's just that, a never ending cycle, I've slowly given up with this game man it really sucks sometimes
I would love to see that hooks vs. kills debate again now ^^ I think if the game focuses on kills OBVIOUSLY you're going to kill one the fastest you can - survivors are not pushing a gen to 50% and then going to another...
I deleted the game yesterday after I opened a thread in the subreddit. I shared 3 screenshots showing me asking the survivors I played against "What was my mistake this round?" in a 1k match with trapper. They told me that I played perfect but they were 4 man swf and there was nothing I could do. It made me realize that for a fun game for one side the other needs to suffer heavily. Most of the people in the subreddit told me that I should only play meta perks and killers. Others told me that I am only crying after one loss. Of course the thread which had 70 comments in half an hour was removed due to it being a "ranting" thread, which was actually a discussion thread where I was pointing out to this issue of killer main being forced to play with tunnels, camps, meta perks/killers etc. I guess unless you are Otzdarva or another famous DBD player, your opinion or arguments does not matter in this community. Its such a strange coincidince that you uploaded this video Otz. It gave me the assurence that I am not the only one realizing the problem of forced toxicity. I hope this community and developers realize this issue and make an effort to change it instead of blaming others or forcing them to play the meta. I will be taking a year long break from the game. I hope next time I download it, these problems would be solved. Otherwise, it would be just a platform where toxicity is seen as a necessity. Take care, love your content.
In regards to youtubers having the only valid opinions, I agree with that. I think a lot of gamers do that. However, they do a lot of testing so that's what makes them more credible. Also, they have most of their tests on their channels. They can defend their arguments much easier due to them having moving evidence to back up their claims.
@@emmanuelmunchies Dude my point was that this issue is plaguing the game for a long time and only the content creators' opinions are accepted as the truth while the rest of the players in the community are blamed for other reasons. However, I was not blaming TH-camrs when I said that. I love Otz and his content. Its just that when I pointed out to the same problem the players and the community administration blamed me for ranting, while Otz is being praised in the comments.
Yeah, I hang the game up between events, pretty much, and I've learned to completely abandon playing to win. It's not worth the ambiguous glory of winning with meta, or the time investment of getting anywhere near Otz's level if you're not built just right. I slap together gimmick builds and just try to extract some fun plays and quest rewards when I play, but there is Evil Dead over on Epic, too...
but... you are playing the weakest killer with weak perks(?) vs the strongest possible thing of a 4 man swf... Why should you have any right to win If anything it seems unfair you even got 1 of them... Just play to have fun dude, thats the point of a video game. Its okay to lose once....
After extensive testing in a ten minute custom game with bots, we at BHVR have found tunneling to be too strong and rewarding for killers. To combat this, we carefully considered numerous options over lunch break and chose what we feel will be the best one going forward. All survivor perks are now base kit, Brand New Parts will instantly fully repair all five generators with no skill check necessary, Decisive Strike stuns for 69 years, Dead Hard teleports the survivor to the nearest pallet or window and no longer has a cooldown, and Prove Thyself files the survivor's taxes in real life. In addition, all killers now move at Nurse's base speed and powers have been removed entirely, while basic attacks now give the survivors a relaxing foot massage. The Pig has also been buffed.
Was an honor to get a match against you. I played that match so badly, but you were being so fair and nice. We were not a 4man swf, i was only playing with my boyfriend Joltie. Playing fair sadly makes killers lose matches they would otherwise win. I try to play fair most of the times too, but i end up losing due to that and still getting bagged and insulted.
But tunneling and camping are fair playstyles. Unfair play is hacking and exploiting bugs. There is such a thing as unfair game mechanics, but that's a development issue.
Honestly, I play Killer, and mostly play nice, unless the survivors are really fun to play against. When I lose this way, I am normally really fine with it, and willing to accept that I played less than optimally, along with some human error on my part, and that it caused me to lose. I, being a mostly survivor player (most of my 700-800 hours are on survivor) have gotten sick of the much more prevalent tunneling, even when it’s unprovoked, so I struggle to justify doing it myself and even feel bad doing it.
Hilarious that the devs thought nerfing pro hook perks, nerfing killers that didn't need nerfs, and adding boons would not make killers tunnel more than before. Map design is another part of this too.
I think that the game's version of anti-tunnel really focuses on "It is harder to tunnel this person so don't do it!!!" Things like OTR and DS discourage tunneling on paper but really they just prolong it. If someone has both of those perks, and the killer just goes through them, how much time do they really buy? The killer just gets infinitely more time from killing one person early, because having three survivors just makes everything so much tougher. You hook one, you chase one, the third has to go for the hooked person. You down the person you're chasing, you hook them, you chase another, repeat. Tunnelling after the first survivor becomes unnecessary but that first survivor NEEDS to be tunneled. I'm not sure what the best solution is. Do they add reasons to spread hooks for the killer? It'd have to be something base kit because there are already perks that encourage the spreading of hooks, but if those perks aren't the best then people will just tunnel instead. It's pretty rough all around.
I absolutely agree with you. In most cases, OTR and DS gives you so little time, when the killer is actually going for the kill. Otr is countered by literally camping and slamming right after unhook and DS is a mere joke against most of the killers. Ofc, sometimes they do win survs games and it's not that uncommon to happen, but still, playing 1v3 in a 3gen scenario is a done deal for the killer, deliberatly. Speaking of ways to somewhat counter this mechanic, well, I have a few ideas, but we don't know, how turns out in practice. For example, give survs gen speed bonus after 1/2 persons died. Also You can boost survs gen speed after 15-20 minutes into the match, so if the killer starts to do 3gen start and REALLY slowing down the game, there's at least some kind of counter to it. All in all, there's not really going to be the way to counter tunneling by itself, unless breaking the game completely and making it simply unfair for the killer, but at least here' some suggestions on how to fix the consequences of such actions.
The best solution is to stabilize the game. Make it so that after every survivor’s death, ALL survivors get actions speed buffs to compensate. This way, gens should take as long for 4 people to repair as long as it does for 3 etc. This will encourage the playstyle of “hook everybody twice, then kill them all in one endgame sweep” - since, otherwise, killer will be “punished” for killing people prematurely. I speak it as a killer main. We NEED it. The game should be balanced both around having 4 and 3 people. Currently, having 4 people alive is too much and having 3 people can be too little. Obviously the killers will need some buffs as a whole to deal with the direct buff to survivors (since games will last shorten on average). But, in the end, it will all be good. So, essentially, give all survivors pre-reworked “Last Survivor” (activetes after every kill), and give every killer an additional useful power. Together, this will not only make the game more enjoyable (since you interact with all survivors at once) for both sides, but also can warrant opportunity for killers to be more interactive as well. Example: Nemesis can get Rockets from opened vaccine/supply cases, and then can have the ranged telegraphed projectile attack (temporarily) instead of his tentacle. Technically, it will still be his “tentacle” power, but will have a different animation, a visible warning of it’s path and a much greater range. Likewise, give the power to Clown to make intoxicated survivors (away from his and out of chase) “sleepy”, so that they fall asleep while repairing gens, and need to choose between going to other teammates to wake up (old Freddy) or risk falling asleep before they are done with repairs. Give demogorgon ability to teleport with downed survivors through portals. Give Cannibal free basekit insidious, but make it so that the recently unhooked survivor will not be able to go down against for a good amount of seconds AND rescuer can still perform rescue for a few seconds after being struck by chainsaw. This will encourage “trade” patterns, without being overly oppressive. Akin to killer-sided “For the people”. Make Sadako phase through all obstacles and walls, but in doing so temporarily increase her manifestation time. Make Huntress’s hatchets go through walls if they have traveled for more than 16-40 meters. Kinda Entity empowering that throw and allowing it to fly through the mist itself. Make Legion be able to become imposter and inflict MUCH longer deep wounds to the first survivor struck, but be unable to down them by any means (see Bubba). However, the number of successive attacks to down will reduce from 4 to 3. This will be both viable in coordinated matches, without being oppressive in solo-play (they will give a good scare to the team and the first survivor, but won’t be able to target/down them directly). Remove collision tantrum from Billy, but make it so that overheat jumps significantly after bumping. Increase the overall overheat meter’s capacity as well to compensate. (So, he will get overheat from bumping, but won’t get many/as much from rewing and sprinting for long). Give Twins ability to have Victor be controlled by AI every time he is stunned, as opposed to him just disappearing. So that he still brings value (information and potential hinderance), but cannot be precisely controlled for X seconds. Make “confused” Victor target all survivors that are not in chase/outside of certain radius away from Charlotte. This way Charlotte can gain good auto-game-stall, but at the expense of good survivors luring Victor very far away (which wastes time, since he no longer re-spawns). Give Myers ability to instantly break pallets and walls in his Tier 3, but make it so that he loses some % of the overall tier meter (ending it earlier) by doing so. Give Spirit ability to create her clones around every survivor while they are phasing for a jump-scare. These clones will smack survivor after a couple seconds, but cannot move - disappearing after a completed swing. This will force survivors off gens (since they will be standing still next to her copies, in risk of being hit). Both game stall and fun factor. Etc etc etc. All at the expense of every remaining survivors getting 33%/50% repair speed boost for every killed teammate respectively (so that the overall possible repair speed is intact).
The thing I basically always say: The Killer role feels so stressful you have to sweat really hard to even be considered a threat Until they do something about that, there's always gonna be face campers and tunnelers Just so you can secure at least 1 kill and feel somewhat relieved
This is why I quit killer. As survivor it felt okay to die, and it felt good to win but it wasn’t super crazy. You just have to survive, thats literally it. Don’t have to feel bad about dying either because odds are other people might too, so you’re not really the ‘worst’. But as the killer you’re supposed to be better, you’re supposed to get them all, and its like a ticking clock going against you. Its like having 10 minutes to finish a test you’re having a hard time on, super stressful. Its why I stopped playing killer. I’m not interested in sweating, because I’ve never had a game where I just can play casual as killer and get more than 1 kill lol. (Except for that one time I was Legion and none of the survivors knew how to mend).
This is the main crux of the problem, they either have no idea how to make playing killer fun or they don't care to. I hate being told I'm a sweat or a tryhard when I play killer because yes, I do have to try hard if I want anything from the killer experience. I have slept walked to dubs as a survivor, I barely had to do anything even against good killers, but the only way I sleep walk to a dub as killer is if the survivors are genuinely awful.
i like feeling of being a threat but DBD is slowly loosing it because in my opinion this game is to easy for survivors and to stressful for killers i'm not even saying about getting kills i am saying about having fun as the killer
part of that is perspective as well. I hate playing survivor because it feels like I'm responsible for both my success and my teammates',while as killer I'm happy just to get good shots, funny downs, a billion BP, or just good chases. Had a really rough match against a bunch of 3k hour dudes, but it wasn't too stressful because they were having some fun as well. I also have 60 frightful flans I need to burn through on one killer alone so I just play agitation + mad grit builds.
I honestly think a big part of it is how bad it feels to lose as killer. As a survivor you can have a million different excuses (whether they’re true or not) like that you were messing around or your team sucked, but when you lose as killer it’s like you have nobody to blame but yourself. Then you get some survivors who will beat on you endlessly for losing just one match by teabagging at the gates, BMing in endgame chat, or just generally being annoying in other ways. Not to say that there aren’t toxic killers or that all survivors are toxic, but I feel that it hurts so much more to lose as a killer with survivors that take every advantage they can possibly have than to lose to a killer that does the same, leading to some killers making their matches impossible to win. Edit since some people like taking one specific part of my comment and using it to disregard the entire statement: Teabagging isn’t the main problem. It’s just that people will combine that with other annoying behavior and then bring it outside of the game to bother me when I just want to enjoy the game. I couldn’t care less that I lost or that a person pressed control a few times at the end, it bothers me when people will go out of their way to harass or humiliate me outside of the game itself just because I had one bad match.
As killer you can blame the maps, the perks, the gen spread, items, lag, game bugs. It's not that hard to come up with an excuse. The main issue is the terrible game design. Super fast healing combined with 20-40 seconds that it takes to get a hit.
Plus, when killers lose, they still have to stay in the entire match. When I get tunneled as a survivor and die early on, at least I’m out of the game, and can find a new one. But if I have a horrible first chase as killer, and I just know the game is lost. Too bad, I have to stay for the entire trial. It can feel pointless continuing to play the match. Even worse, if I do just say “ok, games over, time to stand in a corner” 9 times out of 10, the survivors will come find me and spam flashlight blinds and or T-bag constantly. Pretty much anything other than finishing the game.
I find it funny people are still complaining about tbaggin. I got tbagged as a kid when playing the first Halo. How on earth are you still complaining about this?
@@rickkcir2151 As killer you can't give up, I have won countless matches after losing horribly at the beginning of the match. As a killer main I am expected not to give up and to try to win no matter what. If I am having a bad day closing the game and playing a different actually fun game is always an option.
As a game designer; this info you guys are providing me is a lot more helpful than you realize. The devs trying to design out the problem rather than give a new toy to introduce to the toy box seems to hurt the fun of a game overall.
@@Blackpapalink at the same time, sometimes we as players think we know what we want when the things that we ask for do more harm than good. That's not even just in the context of dbd.
Its crazy too because its not like you played poorly at all. All of the chases were fairly short. You got several pain res hooks. You got a few "free" injuries. Theres not really anyway I could see inprovement other than the grab at the end and tunneling.
It's a shame the community has had such a hard time understanding this, and has ostracized other creators who realized this beforehand. Anyways, I hope the devs can make some changes that put the game in a healthier state. I have friends who won't play because of the camping/tunneling.
The reason Killer mains tunnel more is obvious: It used to be that I could tunnel halfway into the game when I started losing. Now, if I don't tunnel straight away, it's too late. They've already won if they're good. I can't start playing sweaty halfway in the game anymore, because survivors get too much momentum. I need to get you to 3 survivors before you're on 1 gen or I've already lost. And I can't start tunnelling later because you have 12 seconds of BT and so much tunnelling protection now. So I have to tunnel straight away, not knowing if you're all trash or not. If I play nice, I get destroyed. If I tunnel, even without specific perks, I have a fun game and probably win, or atleast get to play. I have to tunnel. I've been left with no choice because of all the anti-tunnel.
Playing survivor is easy these days. I just gen rush until Im chased but half the time Im watching TH-cam. Meanwhile the killer is sweating his ass off 😅
@@djjones3831 they don't have an actual reason, they're just talking out their ass, they're killer mains pretending they play survivor. They probably complain about gen rushing and somehow think anti tunnel perks are bad for the game. They don't want to improve in chase as a killer. They only care about winning, not being good at the game.
@@NewSirenSongi think you never played killer in life, bc you don't know how hard is catch good Survivor even when you're the best killer in the World. If you think im wrong or that i need to learn more how to chase, lets play 1v1
@@russrtspooling7702So easy kill rates are over 60% even in top MMR. Absolutely crazzzzy. Survivors should just let themselves get on the hook with how hard it is as the killer (even when this is a killer-sided patch) 😢
@@oscar3153 you make a very good point will high kill rates, but I still think you're wrong. Are kill rates high with you 8 hooking everyone before you get a kill? No, they aren't. They get someone out early, camp, tunnel. If survivors didn't complain about literally everything, we wouldn't be in this meta. They complained about people playing fair with Corrupt and pop. So they nerfed those perks. Now there's call of brine and eruption where killers tunnel and camp. And survivors are complaining. And now they're nerfing eruption, which is very needed. But the previous meta didn't need a nerf.
It's kind of sad how quickly you can turn a losing game around by tunneling; it makes me feel like the game either wants me to be an asshole or lose. It's like I'm playing against an equally skilled opponent, but if I don't give myself a handicap I'm a "boring player". I get that tunneling makes the game more boring for the victim, but demonizing it only fuels hatred for the other side since it comes across as "Let us win easier" instead of "let everyone play the game" because of how necessary it can be to win matches.
The messed up part is for every killer player, there are 4 survivor players, so of course they can scream "unfair" louder than the killer side. I'm a survivor main but I feel bad for killers. We can't play however we want then trash talk killers for playing a certain way. If people want to not bleed out for 5 minutes then give us an option to let go when bleeding out, that's a dev issue not a killer issue. There's always gonna be sour survivors and sour killers, let them give up if they want to and move onto the next game.
You're not an asshole for tunneling. It's just a video game. Look at the Japanese meta, they expect you to tunnel. Tunneling being "asshole" behavior is something that was invented by the western community. You're a slasher movie villain, do you think Jason Voorhees has a code of conduct about not murdering the same teen too much? It's silly. Also don't let people calling you "boring" bother you. They're just salty because they got beat and they're trying to cover for their bruised ego by pretending to be above the game. I have never once seen anyone use that accusation in a situation where they didn't get outplayed. I watched a streamer's VOD back once after they ragequit, and they called me a boring killer for no other reason than I predicted their Dead Hard and didn't swing at them.
You feel like a asshole because you have the survivors feelings in mind, but what about your feelings? Do you want to have fun or play to win, or do you want to get tea bagged at the exit gates?
“Seems like a skill issue” I am a survivor main, but I still probably have a hundred hours as killer. Anytime my teammates complain in EGC about tunneling or camping I try to remind them that it’s the killer’s job, it’s just a game, and sometimes there’s no better option for the killer, especially during end game collapse.
It’s gonna continue getting worse unless the devs balance the game around hooks not kills and and give killers incentives or rank points for getting a certain amount of hooks.
when I play killer i found out that if I can get 4-6 hooks, 2 good chases, and damage multiple gens I can end the game at 30+ BP's even if I dont kill anyone. there needs to be a proximity penalty after hooking a survivor. If the killer is within a certain distance of the hook the killer begins to lose hook points, if the killer persists, loss of chase points will be added UNLESS the killer is in a chase around the hook (I know the dev's can code that- they coded eruption to stack with starstuck...)
You realize that we are talking about tunneling right? Tunneling is about getting all the hooks as fast as possible, while camping what makes you get less hooks.
Exactly. Killers need to be rewarded for playing in a way that also happens to be the most fun for their opponents (meaning: going for multiple different hooks). If playing in such a way is more likely to make you lose while putting in much more work in the process, well... but og course many DbD players even in this very comment section don't realize this and cry for new punishment for Killers playing in an "unfun" way instead which ironically makes these "unfun" play styles even more necessary because the alternatives don't magically become more viable for those trying to win. Pushing through all the second chance perks, the Endurance, the potential body blocks, sabo attempts etc. to get a Survivor out asap is the best method of slowing the game down, period. Making this process more difficult won't make going for hooks more appealing since you still barely get anything for it. This has to change, no matter how hard low to mid tier Survivor players looking for ez matches bombard reddit and the official forums with complaints. BHVR finally needs to understand which balancing concerns are valid (e.g. Eruption) and which should be ignored (e.g. all the crying about Pop, Ruin or tracking perks that lead Killers away from hooks onto fresh targets).
So frustrating to play both sides rn, as a survivor ive been feeling like im forced to run ds just to stop blighta feom tunneling at 4 gens. And as a killer I main demo and ghosty and some survivor groups are just horrible
Yeah, I took a break a few months ago after playing 5 games in a row and being tunneled off hook at 5 gens. Since I returned a week or so ago I have noticed more of a tunneling meta when I play survivor. And the thing is, I'm a killer main so I actually completely understand it. "Fairly" going up against 4 competent survivors is the right thing to do, but leaves the Killer in an "unwinnable" situation.
Yeah, the game is basically unplayable vs even average survivors if you can't consistently win mindgames as killer. The only exception are really strong killers (blight etc) or if you main just one killer and master him.
Yeah its the strongest strategy by far. Also if you are facing good survivors with deadhard, tunneling is better than regular chases since you get endurance out of the way at the start vs having to deal with 3 healthstates. I try to avoid it for casual games, but if more than one survivor has dead hard or I can tell its a very good swf and I want to win I'll probably tunnel a survivor out
Overwatch 2 has this thing called Metaslave. I’d say that’s what’s happening in DbD as well, which I sadly have to rely as Killer because when I wanna run a build for my preference the Survivors just blow gens in a instant and the game is over
@@taluca8474 it's not even about meta in my opinion, because yes you sometimes lose to a DH, adre, unbreakable or whatever, but that's once in a while. It's more about matchmaking and base game balance, because the AVERAGE killer game already feels unwinnable when survivors did 4 gens at 3 hooks through 3 slowdown perks.
Cycle of DBD, play survivor, bring no items, tunneled out first game, get tunneled out second game, get tunneled out third game, get slugged and left to bleed out 4 game killer lets you crawl to hatch but then closes it in your face. Uninstall
During my games I try not to tunnel on purpose, but sometimes its necessary when it comes to at least having 2-3 kills by the end of the match. I try to give survivors a chance by switching to a different target, but its feel more and more you have to tunnel in one way or another.
Facts, I used to try and do fun niche builds where I would go out of my way to not tunnel or camp, but recently It feels like win or lose, Im always critiqued poorly in end game chat, so now I really don't have a desire to play "fair", especially if the toxicity I have to deal with feels especially higher than usual. 🤷
@@popthypickle1726 Today i played a game with hillbilly without tunneling or camping just enjoying chases and doing mindgames and stuff, i found two p100 and when i lost in the end and typed GG they called me boring, i dont understand this games community at all lol
I tunnel and camp on purpose because that is how you win. I have had games where I 2 hook everyone before I get a kill and those games are usually painful.
Camping may have reduced where you play, but i played a lot of games last night where camp after camp after camp happened. It wasn't facecamping; camping has evolved into proximity camping in order to both camp and tunnel together. At least, that's been my experience.
Mindless camping is certain to lose you the match. When I know that someone is nearby though I won't leave because... why the hell should I? I know that at least one Survivor currently isn't on a gen and the guy on the hook obviously isn't either so I'll wait for the Survivors to make a move. Want me to leave? Make me by going back to gens. It's that simple, yet many Survivors - even those with multiple thousand hours - don't seem to understand this and complain because they reacted terribly to a camping Killer. Their fault, not the Killer's.
@@xxLiquidxxSnakExx Playing SWF it's not a problem, as you can communicate who to stake out the hooked survivor while the other two do gens. Playing randoms, there's a chance all 3 other survivors are scoping out a chance to unhook while being unaware that nobody is on gens.
Dude, not willingly letting the survivors unhook when they're obviously around is not "proximity camping". It's just not giving you an unhook for free.
I feel like the reward as killer for tunneling someone out will always be too high for it not to be the best option no matter what the state of balance is. Either killer is weak and you have to tunnel to have any hope of victory or killer is strong and tunneling is just the easiest way to win. I'm not sure what BHVR could change that would make it more optimal to hook multiple survivors.
A good idea might be making BBQ and chili the perk it was before to encourage getting multiple hooks but other than that I can't think of anything other than maybe extending the base borrowed time and increase the speed bonus the unhooked survivor gets
Literally all they would need to do is incorporate a large BP reward for hooking a different survivor, and incorporate combo mechanics so the killer gets more and more bp if they continue to avoid hooking the same survivor twice.
Honestly they could just provide some other viable options besides tunneling. As it is, either you tunnel or you get teabagged by 4 people at the exit gates.
I've never had a problem with tunneling until this week. Was tunneled in like 6 games to the point where I finally used DS. I never used that perk until this week just to somewhat combat it. It's very annoying.
Its what happens when the survivor community complains about gen defense perks so much. The more you complain and nerf killer perks the more killers will adapt. Which means more tunneling and camping
Same. I was always trying to use some meme builds as a surv, but recently the game is just... I don't know, impossible to have fun most of the time bc of straight tunneling right from the start on 5 gens. Killers acting like bots with their tunnel-vision and other poor strategies. I know its just a game, but sometimes even I want to stay alive till endgame, lol. And now I am unbreakable/adrenalin/dh slave 💀
It was obvious that this is going to happen. Survivors are more efficient now so killers are forced to tunnel and camp if they want to win. I don't want to tunnel or camp because I know it is not fun for either sides but at the same time I don't want to lose because of three gens popping in the first chase...
@@cuppedcup Or people could change their mindset from having to win every game to finding a way to have fun. Nothing wrong with playing to win, it’s just that there’s no point in taking a casual game seriously that is by default designed with rng.
@@cuppedcupA) Otz was against a SWF with a BNP and Medkits B) ~70% of matches are SoloQ C) Otz didn't even have meta perks and was playing an arguably C-tier killer on a HEAVILY survivor-sided map WITHOUT the killer's best or even just better add-ons he had. If you play a not-so-good killer, without meta perks, only decent add-ons, on a heavily survivor-sided map against a SWF with BNP and purple meats that had semi-meta perks as well, then no shit you can't win. How do you purposely play sub-optimally against another person playing optimally and expect to win without you also playing optimally or sweating? You also statistically do not go up against good survivors or even SWF for that matter. So either you are just not as good as you think or you think you just so happen to be in the 30% of matches often, which is almost statistically impossible to happen consistently or even often.
@@InfiniteVoid117 say that to the survs who T-bag and click their flashys at every pallet and even if you give up, they stay in the game and rub it in no thanks, I prefer tunneling
I see someone getting hard tunneled out almost every game now and I'm not even high mmr. It's an awful feeling to be knocked out of the game in 5 minutes.
Same, one time it happened to be back to back games. A Trapper on Shattered Square downed me and camped me to death at gens. I wasnt even in basement. Next game I get a Huntress on Ormond, same thing happened. I get downed and camped to death at 5 gens. And when its not as bad, I get tunneled. Like just yesterday I had a Dredge on Father Campbells Chapell that like hard tunneled me. Granted I didnt mind as I was in a swf and helping to get my friends a Yoichi adept(yes 2 people went Yoichi adept), so I didnt mind taking the heat that time
I'm usually iri rank but haven't placed since last split so I'm ash and holy hell I couldn't believe how hard mfs tunnel at ash rank. It was so sweaty for no reason
Otz please, I'll be really happy if you make more like these direct talks in old fashion "Otz way" with community More, Thanks hope you have a great day !
I genuinely think the problem is the game doesn’t stress going after different survivors when there’s no reason to. Focusing on hooks ect. It feels miserable to be tunneled and I wish there was a solution as it’s one of the most unfun things on the survivor side to deal with. Aside from getting a nurse, lol.
@Asriel_As_You_Get I agree that this is probably the best way to do it (like basekit grim embrace or whatever) but it could potentially make survivors force you to tunnel with their off the record & bt plays to stop you from getting it to proc. Otz talked a lot about the potential negatives of any solution. The best way is to probably just allow tunnelling to exist but make the strategies listed above viable again.
So what I'm getting from the comments is that survivors are NOT ALLOWED TO (demanded by killer players, the killers hand book if you will): -Body block to save a team mate who is dead on hook -Do the ONLY objective they have -Heal too fast (Don't use healing perks! we're gonna make it? more like we're gonna be op amirite gamers?) -use perks deemed OP -use perks deemed "annoying" -use certain skins -play certain characters -loop efficiently? -predrop pallets but also don't loop too well -crouch to avoid projectiles (it might be seen as t-bagging and that would hurt someones feelings) -unhook (The killer was only 30 meters away that's too close!) -play on certain maps (even if the game chose the map and no offerings were used) -use items (even if they are low tier with no add ons) -play with their friends -communicate in ANY form (including quality of life UI changes) -use perks that help them survive because tunneling is so prevalent and being slugged until bleed out is boring -try to spin the killer as a last ditch effort to prolong a chase even if they're not using dead hard -try to hide but also dont be good at chase What ARE survivors allowed to do? I've been running gimmicky meme builds for over a year now, I have not touched dead hard since its change and barely used it before the change (I always preferred balanced landing but too many maps have no where to use it) and it's not like the killer goes "Oh this guy isn't using OTR, unbreakable or DH I won't tunnel this nice fellow!" They just tunnel harder than before and force a 3 gen with their gen kick perks and say gg ez in end game Now I've been playing since before the Twins chapter released and have every achievo in the game, play both sides but survivor more as I like to play with my friends (and the ui update makes playing solo queue more bearable) and just mess around and play casually and the vast majority of my games someone is getting tunneled early game (this is not counting end game at that point its definitely free game) and bm'd when NONE of us are using meta perks or doing anything to "provoke" the killer So what are survivors SUPPOSED to do? Now don't get me wrong I'm being pedantic on purpose, both sides act like they're allowed to do WHATEVER THEY WANT but the other isn't and the games balancing and nature makes having just a "fun match" uncommon because everyone's too busy with this US VS THEM mentality and arguing and crying like children and thinking they HAVE TO WIN EVERY SINGLE GAME They care more about the 4k than fun They care more about surviving than fun
Good killers have always tunneled since I started playing in Fall of 2018. Perks are nice but the best way to put pressure on survivors is to reduce their numbers; effectively making them do more with less.
MY MAN! you understand why I have always tunneled since the beginning of dbd. Imagine playing nice in a game where your whole goal is to take out as many survivors before they escape.
The main time I tunnel is just when people who got unhooked deliberately get in the way as I try to move. While body blocking a hit is one thing, sometimes they just stand in place just to keep you from walking, then move to continue blocking when you try to go around.
They need to not nerf tunneling but give incentives to spread hooks i dont think any of the weaker killers can afford not to tunnel if they want to scrape together a win without stacking slowdown and using a more fun build
I think the survivor solo queue info will make tunnelling worse. As a killer you have two sources of pressure Imo, you can pressure gens, or pressure the hook. When survivors don’t know who is going for the unhook, they might send multiple people, which gives the killer more time. When they can afford to just send one and keep cranking gens, it’s hard to convince me that I shouldn’t just defend the hook vs that one unhooker and force them to run, bring another person, or trade. I think bhvr is underestimating how much killer gameplay happens in the time afforded by the lack of communication in a match. Idk if making more games like swf will be good in the long run because for the vast majority of killers, the response to an obvious swf is to camp, prey on altruism and try to force a 2k draw. Because chasing after gens with such efficient coordinated survivors is a death sentence
You can't see who is going for the rescue with the new soloQ hud, you have to use kindred to know, and that's a perk slot so what you say is not really a problem
Exactly, it is absolutely bonkers that they release an update like this without also rebalancing killer for it. Every single match will feel like a SWF sweat fest now. It is literally a race with the clock as survivors know exactly who is on gens and when gens will be done. This "solo info update" indirectly buffs the gen speeds massively.
@@fandezabuza4482 uhm you can see who's working on a gen and who's not and see their general progression. As soon as one person stops doing a Gen the other two will see it and assume that he's going for the unhook and they'll just keep doing their gens
I think a big thing that makes being "nice" too weak, is the availability and speed of healing is absolutely excessive right now. I don't even need a medkit half the time to heal myself in 10 seconds, but to add green medkits being available every match and just the insane healing speeds makes it a trivial thing to do. There's no real tradeoff for the time spent anymore
yes. this, healing is so freely available and fast that even spreading out health states is only a massive time loss with how fast a surv can heal out of chase. without focusing someone for two (mabey three) health states, spreading out damage is so easily punished by the most common items/abilitys. you can try your heart out to get Thanatophobia vaule (-20% repair speed) against any amount of healing, OR you can tunnel, which is effectily a -25% to ALL surv actions. To quote Otz in this vid: "She's already healed! It makes sense, but she's healed already!"
@@snowbiden5472 Even minor bullshit perks like Botany Knowledge and Leader are too fast. Me and my friend were doing Claudette/Dwight adept. Just those 2 paired together made healing go stupidly fast
I think another big reason tunneling has seen more and more play is largely the death of Decisive Strike in most builds. Previously alot of killers would go out of their way to avoid it, even slug someone because of it, now all killers largely ignore it as its barely an annoyance than anything else
My favorite build lately is to play Pig with Blood Warden, No Way Out, Remember Me, and Terminus. Then I bring Video Tape and Crate of Gears. I don't tunnel, I don't camp, but if the survivors mange to make it to end game, well then Ihave some backup, but honestly if they al get out, I'm okay with that because we all got good points, and that's what matters to me more than the kills, always has.
Eyup not to mention with the wiggle changes I've noticed killers would rather tunnel more than deal with boil over or sabo builds which has become now common
@@pandacheese7046 it's funny I woke up to seeing almost all my matches with a killer running iron grasp or mad grit. I was confused at first till I remembered the changes
I had an Elodie trying to abuse Boil Over on Pale Rose, I didnt wanna jump off stairs to hook her but go down manually. I failed to notice a hook because Boil Over obscures nearby hook auras and went to a further one away and she wiggled out and went upstairs on the boat again, and 2 No Mither David simps went to rescue her again and sabo any nearby hook.I eventually killed them all and gave Vittorio the hatch because he was the only one actually playing the game as he should. Boil Over is such a bad perk. I hate perks that can be abused
I most often encounter "tunneling" when I accidentally run into the killer when I'm not entirely focused on the game, it's usually not them deliberately hunting me. It's obviously frustrating to get tunneled out at 5 gens, but how many gen rush builds exist? Probably at least 8 perk combos for finishing gens in much shorter time, plus toolboxes w/ brand new parts. If survivors can speedrun their objectives then killers are gonna do it too. Add in the fact that heals are basically free with medkits and circle of healing, idk what is expected of killers at this point. Everyone wants to win, that's the point of the game, and both parties can't win so both will probably go with the most efficient way to complete their objectives.
I have a unique playstylr where i will play strong at beginning but if it feels like survivors are too weak, i wont kill the last 2 or 3. If they r really strong, i have to kill them soon.
Even if you bring something to counter medkits, most of the time they also have totems, it is like dead hard, almost part of the basekit of a lot of survivors
i play overcome lucky break and medkits are insane. even with old lucky break i would pride myself on healing up fast getting my exhaustion back and going out to take another hit just to disappear from the killer, again to heal up. they are absolutely a problem.
@@remakefreddy9170 nah. U can get good value from balanced landing sometimes, there’s no guarantee you will run the killer in a place with drops, or that the map you’re on will have any height differences at all. Deadhard can always be used in any place, and you can activate it when you choose
Tunnelling lately has gotten absolutely ridiculous. Slugging is also WAY worse. The new merciless system hasn't helped. Even with the UI changes, solo survivors are in a miserable place.
I'm gonna say this i used to play this game, and it has been years since i played it. And i always saw tunneling or the avoidance of it as a cool thing, because it showed that the players even tho they're against each other, can respect each other in a way. A form of camaraderie. That's all cool and all, but if tunneling is detrimental to the game's 1v4 balance, then it should be up to the devs to try and find ways to balance it/fix it. Not up to the players to avoid the best way to play for any individual. So i'd say, that not abusing the best way to win gave the devs a reason to be lazy and not balance that part of the game.
I've been playing the game super nice-guy-y for ages but it feels more and more like the game is favoring the survivors so heavily with how fast gens can fly between perks, toolboxes, and BNPs, that it wants the killer to tunnel someone out just to reduce their team's gen repair speed, slashing their overall speeds by 1/4 is a pretty good reason to remove a survivor fast, so I can't really ever fault someone for choosing to tunnel.
See the problem with that is yes survivors can speed through gens, but all it takes is one Hook with eruption,Call of the brine,Scour-age hook, and pop goes the weasel/Corrupt with blight, nurse or wesker and any killer who can move around and boom the killer basically holds the game hostage.
@@zethroth0077 you do know you can do the same on the surv side as well right? Right now matches are just too fast. And it favors survivor. How many perks just increase gen repair speed? Along with tool boxes and add ons.
I enjoy the perk trends. A lot of beamers and Boil Overs are causing me to run Iron Grasp and Lightborn currently. Looking forward to that trend changing. 🙄
Lightborn encourages flashy survivors to go do gens instead of being useless while attempting flashy saves. And if they creep around after you down someone, just keep faking and try to get a hit on them. It usually scares them off. If it doesn't work tho, then slug the first one and go for flashy until you down them. Cause now you have one on the ground and one being chased, which is literally half of the team not doing gens.
Lightborn imo needs a slight buff. It should give a fake blind effect for the survivors to hide itself (and maybe some bonus bloodpoints just for the fun factor). Its a fun meme perk to run currently and can lead to some free downs in lower mmr which is where i usually am anyways, but i think it would be nice if it wasnt so obvious to experienced players. But seriously i have had games where the survivors try flashing me constantly and never pick up on it, its a lot of fun. With the fake flash effect it would do this at all ranks
@@mikegreen1124 it helps at pallets, those bullshit broken windows, and locker saves, and baiting survivors for a free hit or two before they realize. Its a fun meme perk while impractical and the best part is no one expects you to actually use it lul
I think tunneling is bad for the game. It’s gives it way less replayablility as a survivor, which is 4x as many killers as you need. I play killer a lot, and find tunneling fairly unnecessary if my goal is 2k or more. Which is balanced really. When I play survivor, my patience runs thin with BM killers every other game (on a good night)
The worst part about tunneling becoming the most effective playstyle recently is that killer will generally tunnel a “weak link” or just a player they can down really fast. This becomes a problem when you try to play with any less experienced friends or let’s say your friend wants to try dbd so you take them into a public game and guide them, if the killer isn’t nice and wants to win then they will tunnel that person and if most killers are tunneling then it sort of puts off that person from the game because they just feel like they can’t do anything because they are constantly getting chased and they don’t have the experience to either 1. Get into a position for a good chase after getting unhooked (or get chased in an unfavorable spot) or 2. They don’t have the experience required to defend someone who is being tunneled so they can’t slow the killer down then that person dies and then it’s a 3v1. From a new players perspective it’s very frustrating because it feels like there is nothing you can do. For the record I am not the new player in question but I’ve had my fair share of friends try dbd and they feel like they can’t do anything in most situations like this.
This is the reason dbds numbers have been going down significantly. There is a massive disparity in the hours and experience of players. New players and especially survivors have no in game way to actually improve quickly because the game provides no resources to them. On top of the grind being incredible and there being 50 characters they need to unlock and level up, them being punished for being weak in their games, and not knowing how to improve, new players rarely stay playing dead by daylight.
Truue. Im a killer main, but I recently got some friends thanks to dbd and the only way we can play together is swf. We're not sweaty and use fun builds, I mean mean fun builds not bully builds. Like we went to play adept gang. We even memed an adept David and having a medkit to confuse the people and go for Murky Reagents. My friend who's the more experienced survivor(survivor main), got to get his adept. I told him this was my only shot, im terrible and I cant loop, no way Im getting a David adept. He decided to help me and along with another friend to give me it. Brought me to the Game where he loops great and told me to stay outta actions and do gens. But Onryo decided to tunnel me. I got 2 hooks real fast. When they unhooked me, they just told me to hide. It was my first time being a useless lil shit hiding in a locker while the others do gens and take the heat. Somehow I actually got the adept and screenshoted that bitch to commemorate it. But damn was I tunneled to hell. Especially because I was the weakest link on the planet. A No Mither survivor who cant loop a killer
I got a good chuckle when Otz brought up the 'Mr Nice Guy' build, because that was what I used to run a while back without realizing there was a name behind it. I still use MYC to this day because I like the idea of rewarding a killer for leaving the hook and focusing gens for a few seconds while survivors make a rescue (at their own peril).
I only use that on Hag. My Hag build is Agitation, Monstrous Shrine, Make Your Choice. Along with a rando perk. Granted to everyones luck, im new at Hag. So I cant utilize the build as optimal as I could. But I love the idea of hooking someone, trap, Monstrous Shrine and MYC activates. Down the unhooker, rinse and repeat
Idk I just hate tunneling because it actively robs the opposition of having fun and playing. Tbh I'm not here to be sweaty, just to have a good, fun time
A good way to solve this problem would be to make so the time take it takes to complete a gen is based on the amount of survivors still alive. the more survs alive, the longer it takes to complete a gen, and the fewer survs alive, the shorter it takes to complete a gen. Like this, the killer has less of an insentive to get 1 person out of the game as fast as they can and instead, they are rewarded for getting hook stages before killing someone! As killing someone early will make gens be completed faster, keeping them alive while getting everyone dead on hook before killing them one by one :D
Thanks for the video! I've been tunneled to the point where I'm losing interest in the game. I always try to stay until the last hook to give people time to do gens, but I feel myself getting more frustrated and having less fun. I understand at 1/2 gens, but it's been at 5 gens.
Pretty much anything that ruins the tempo of the match is bad for the game. It's not fun having to wait for a game to end because you got tunnelled first and have to wait for your friends to end their match, let alone the fact that if you got tunnelled it meant you had almost no play time yourself.
I don't tunnel often (just personal preference) but when I do at the right time it turns lost games into winning or even games because of the altruism of other survivors.
I literally had a trapper game in coldwind where i was endgame at 0 kills, 2 hooks. I got a survivor, hooked them, put 2 traps. They didnt even bother to look at the ground because they were focused on rescuing. I got 2 survivors and the last one escaped. A 0k turned into a 3k because of altruism
I find faking tunneling to work pretty well for getting free hits if you're behind in a game because the other 3 survivor friends just appear out of thin air 90% of the time to all take hits and let you down them instead, just try and get two quick hooks on one then use them as bait to bring the others out without actually going for the kill on them.
This video literally pops up as I’ve only been tunnelled or slugged for the last few days, to be exact as I was slugged on the floor on my first down of the game after Blight has just tunnelled 2 survivors out of the game.
In my experience, now that every single game is against co-ordinated groups thanks to the HUD update, playing in an unfun way definitely feels more necessary to stand a chance.
You can't prevent people from playing co-op swf in this game, it's one of the only reasons this game is still alive Instead of complaining about swf for the 100th time Maybe realize that buffing solo q is the only way to help swf with the new HUD Because if solo q is more appealing more people will play it and then the devs can balance the game around that because it's the majority of players
@@potato1674 I never complained about SWF. Where did you see the letters "SWF" in my original post? All I did was state the facts of: - Regardless of who you face, it doesn't matter. The HUD update has made it so survivors are co-ordinated every game. - At the end of the day, if survivors are co-ordinated, your experience as killer is going to be much more difficult and lead to more unfun playstyles. And yes, it may be better for balance in the long term. The devs have now bridged the gap between soloq and SWF, so balancing survivor as a role to killer should be easier to do. (When did I say otherwise in my original post?) However, in the short term, it sure has made the killer experience miserable. Seems to me like you made some assumptions and jumped to conclusions.
It's actually really funny to see, that the majority of people here didn't really understand the video at all. It's not the tunneling that BHVR needs to adress first, it's the fact, that DbD is (once again, almost as always) heavily survivor sided and killers struggle with all 4 survivors being alive. So, of course, they take one out to make it an even playing ground. Once again, BEFORE tunneling gets any attention, the devs really NEED to look into WHY killers tunnel and change that. Gen times are a complete guessing game (could take forever or be done in 2 minutes thanks to perks and toolboxes). Healing is far too quick and easy nowadays, it's ridiculous. Second/third chance perks need to go or be heavily nerfed. After all that, if tunneling still is a thing (which it won't be, I guarantee it), it can be tackled.
If you play nice and don’t tunnel you will loose 90% of your games and the survivors will teabag you. Toxic survivors make killers regret being nice so in turn the killer will start playing sweaty, ruining the fun for nice survivors. The process goes back and forth and perpetuates itself.
What is loosing as a killer? If you have fun chases thats a win. People focus too much on made up win conditions and then claim tunneling would be necessary
@@lfr234 really, so not getting at least one kill is satisfying? Why play killer at that point, why use your powers if you don't care about kills? I try to play fair, use different perks, and what happens? I get t bagged after the gens were done so quickly, with no kills. There is no reason for me to play fair, tunneling guarantees me at least one kill
I maintain that Decisive strike being nerfed to the ground is the biggest reason for the increase. You've said it yourself Otz, 3 seconds is not enough time to get any meaningful distance from the killer
I adopted a soft tunneling method after watching one of your videos. I call it juggle tunneling. I focus on two survivors at the start. Hook one, then the second, then back to the first, etc. I get them to death hook as quick as possible. They’re my insurance. If they’re both on death hook but I’m still at four or five gens, I chase someone else. As soon as I hit three gens, one of them needs to go. Two gens, they both go. At that point the game is won. It’s not 100% full proof. If my two targets hide well before we get to three gens, I’m screwed. Overall, it’s a nice strat though. I’d say it’s effective 4/5 times.
This video spoke to me... Otz, honestly, I was literally the Mr. Nice guy player. I loved BBQ and Chili, farmed points, played for fun. Now, it's just so much harder to not tunnel. You literally get rewarded for doing it versus before.
Pretty baffling that there's zero mention of DS being gutted and how it also synergized with other important perks like Unbreakable and DH. OTR overrides both BT and DH instead of synergizing with them, which also guts Unbreakable. DS is the glue that held the rest of the anti-tunnel perks together, and most killers aren't afraid of it anymore, with good reason. Furthermore, in the past, if you tunneled early, you risked the hatch spawning and everybody else just disappearing early from a key. Bringing a key was an invitation to be tunneled to prevent that, or you slugged to stop it entirely, but tunneling was risky. Additionally, the change from rank matchmaking to using grades. You needed to play for emblems to maintain your rank, which, especially for streamers, was a badge of pride. A 2K where you pipped at Iri was a good result. 4k-ing at 5 hooks all the time would quickly lead to dropping in grades. But now? The prevailing attitude is that regardless of emblems, nothing matters except a 3/4k, present company included. It's also crazy to me to say that camping has decreased. The current gen kick meta is to just sit in a small area around the hook like a fucking toad. I see that constantly.
Nerfing DS, BBQ & Chili and Thanataphobia is the main reason tunneling increased. Old DS put the fear of God in Killers. Before the big perk change, I almost never encountered intentional tunneling because Killers were not trying to get hit with a 5 second stun (even though I myself did not run DS). While I do agree with BHVR deactivating it in endgame, DS should have kept the 5 seconds. BBQ & Chili and Thanataphobia actively rewarded the Killer for going after different targets. BBQ gave them extra bloodpoints for unique targets while Thanataphobia rewarded Killers with 5% slowdown for each injured, downed and hooked Survivor for up to 20%. Killing these perks the way they did is why we have more problems.
lmao i believe you the fear of god part. One time I survived until last on a Coldwind map vs a Knight. This Knight downed me and slugged me for a while and Im just down and thinking why. Later he hooked me and killed me and saw my stupid ass build and apologized and said he thought I had DS (for the record no, I dont have a lot of survivors, especially a lot of licenced ones) Same thing happened with a streamer that was 3 days ago (heck i can even show you), a Wesker thought I had DH, that perk also put fear of god in people. I laughed about that while my perks ended up being Blood Pact, Self Aware, Kindred and Left Behind. He even had to read wth does Blood Pact do. If I was any better at looping I couldve abused the fear of DH
Tunneling deserves to be a viable strategy imo and survivors simply need to be given the tools to counter it and killers simply need incentives not to tunnel. For Killers, introduce perks and strategies that reward first hooking survivors or not hooking the same survivor twice in a row. For Survivors, Nerf the self heal on CoH to 35% so it's more in line with Self-Care. It doesn't make sense that a single perk gives a 200% faster Self Care to 4 survivors. It should be equal to Self Care at 45 seconds. Doing so will make it more punishing for survivors to get away with hook saves without trading or wasting time.
"Aggressive camping has gone down" I absolutely agree with you 100%, but when knight dropped I noticed a massive spike in knight players camping. Ignoring The Knight, I agree.
@@joaquitox1 he isn't useless if he doesn't camp he is meant to work around loops with his guards and limit the options survivor have by placing guards in certain places. Went against a Knight that destroyed me and my team didn't camp at all but we couldn't loop at all, he allways outsmarted us but I also had to go against a Knight that only camped first guy on hook so naturally gens popped and he couldn't get more than 1 miserable kill with little to no points.
@@camilomartan746 What you are referring to is "zoning" he can shut down loops easily but he is countered by holding w which is a very boring playstyle and if you want to zone people just play artist
In the past, you get punished by 2-3 people working on gens fast if you tunnel. But now, if you see a three man eruption, there’s not even a reason to harass the survivors because they can’t do anything.
I think it’s weird when someone tunnels so hard, like where’s the fun? I literally had a killer hook me first and stood at the hook the entire time until I died. Survivors tried but he didn’t budge. Like wtf?
It sucks that in a good chunk of my matches lately, I get killers who tunnel directly off of unhook. They could be on the other side of the map and engaged in a chase with another survivor they managed to injure but as soon as that unhook notification pops for them, they come right back and tunnel me or one of my other teammates out. Camping might be rare in some games, but I notice proxy-camping is more prominent (which, I agree can be a good strategy to pull in certain cases) but it goes hand-in hand with the players that choose to actively tunnel someone out. To a degree I understand why a killer would do so. Sometimes other survivors are in the area, but in my games I also see the killer never actually leave the perimeter of the hook area either. So I, or someone else gets proxy-camped into second phase or nearly into second phase and when the team comes in for the save, it's either force a hook trade or the savior gets slugged while the unhooked person who was stuck until second phase gets tunneled out of the game at 5-4 gens. I also noticed if I'm going for a rescue (which, I run a healer build and I never go for insta-saves) and wait until the killer leaves and unhook someone, I stay behind so the unhooked person doesn't get tunneled and the killer 90% of the time will bypass me, search for and tunnel the person I just saved. And I know the killer saw me waiting for them too. Those same players love to claim "I don't wanna tunnel, but if I don't see the unhooker, I'll just follow the unhooked." Or "I can never find anyone." But...they either A.) Never left the hook area within the entire duration of first hook phase so they didn't bother actuslly going to find someone or B.) Break their current chase on the far side of the map to come back and tunnel. (Also being tunneled out for a teammate who goes for an insta-save is frustrating but the blame goes on the teammate for doing so. And I know survivors can make a lot of bad/risky plays sometimes so factoring in those types of teammates with players who tunnel is always a pain lol) A lot of players like to say "Don't unhook in front of the killer or else it's free reign" and that's completely fair, however I never see anyone talk about some of the killers that just never leave the area to actually go and find another survivor if they don't see anyone in the perimeter. Even if there's nobody in the area and everyone is spread out on gens. (Let's not mention the cases where other teammates try to throw themselves in front of the killer to "take aggro" so killer stops tunneling but the player ignores the other teammates to tunnel out the hooked person anyway) Decisive Strike doesn't do enough, and players still get tunneled with Off the Record on. If I have to run DS, I usually have to run Yoichi's perk with it, which is a gamble because if the tunneler in question is dedicated, they will still find and tunnel you out, they can slug you and you get no value from either perks, or best case scenario, you actually escape the chase. I've also heard the "Don't bodyblock with your BT or else it's an invitation to tunnel", and those same players will slap me directly off hook after I'm saved and then continue to tunnel me out. Can't bodyblock if I'm still stuck standing there for a moment after being unhooked, unable to move. I know not all killer players play how I've described above, in fact I've run into plenty of great killer players, fun, chill and sometimes very challenging ones as well but playing survivor for the last few months has been completely unfun. Not to mention all the BMing I see as well. I didn't even run into the camping and tunneling issues as much until the 6.0 patch and Wesker's release. While it is a problem with the game itself and there should be better incentives implemented to prevent hard tunneling (especially at 5-4 gens) and maybe just a gameplay shakeup in general like new games modes or different objectives, the other half of it feels like players tunneling vindictively. (Because I've also encountered a lot of BMing on hook alongside the tunneling and it's usually just for trying to loop as long as I can. I don't even run flashlights or BNPs if I bring a toolbox. Usually just a medkit for when I break chase).
Tunneling will NEVER be removed by DBD. As long as someone has the free will to do it, it will happen. No one can get rid of it no matter how Hellbound everyone is at doing so. The only way to truly stop it is to not play at all. If your all having a problem with Tunneling, then either go to the next match or stop playing. Because it's NEVER going to leave, it will be in DBD forever.
Part of the problem is that so many new killers inadvertently benefit from tunneling. Condemned Sadako rewards you for not leaving a survivor who is condemned alone. Wesker’s infection basically means that a survivor who has infection off the hook is on a literal timer for when they will lose chase because once the bar hits full,they are effectively both exposed and permanently affected by the clown bottle effect, making them an easy target (and if they do have time to spray, the killer gets notified of their location). Knight can multitask while tunneling by using guards or even simply put extra pressure on a survivor fresh off the hook with the use of a guard. These oversights in killer design promote tunneling further whilst making it harder to counter, and that isn’t mentioning how a meta focused on gen speeds can effectively remove the punishment for tunneling that comes in the form of objective progress.
you can argue this for every killer. old killer promoted tunneling as well. Nurse has 4vs1 slowdown but is incredibly effective at tunneling survivor out of the game as perks like decisive strike offer no distance gain vs ability. With her uncontested 1vs1 ability, why wouldn't nurse tunnel?. Blight promotes tunneling because you gain no distance vs him when using decisive strike and he also has incredible 1vs1 to tunnel off hook. He also has Alchemist ring which reset his power when hitting base-kit BT. top killer promote tunneling as much as every other killer design.
@@dodang_9147 I mean, yeah, Nurse and Alch Ring Blight are two of the best killers in the game at tunneling, yes. I don’t know why you’re saying this as if it’s news or somehow a counter to what I said. The reality is that many of the killers they’ve added can excel at tunneling to varying degrees, and the higher percentage of killers in the roster have easy access to tunneling, the more killers will do so.
@@dodang_9147 how? My post just says that certain design elements in killer powers causes tunneling to be even more effective, thus making it even worse of a problem
your first sentence is that many new killers inadvertently benefit from tunneling. key word new killer. you go on to blame new killers like sadako(which by the way incentive hit & run and spreading condemn) and Wesker(Who also gains reduced cooldown for having many survivors infected) as mechanics to incentive tunneling. Those killers are not tunneling due relationship the power, they're tunneling because its best strategy to win across all killers. that has been true for long time.
About time more streamers with large audiences are talking about this. Saying the quiet part out loud. Late to be touching on this but better late than never.
Almost like the main objective needs to REWARD killers more than tunneling for NOT tunneling rather than just trying to punish them for playing efficiently.. I've been saying this for years and it's crazy how only now people are starting to realize this truth
Yeah it’s like the game should reward killers for multiple chases/hooks rather than kills. I wonder if two streamers had a debate about this already and now the one who wanted to balance for kills is making a video about tunneling in a kill focus meta
I still think that the easiest way to solve this issue is to punish tunneling harder. It needs to become entirely unattractive for the majority of player, no matter why they do it. They do it to get more BP? Penalize tunneling by transferring BP from the killer to the survivor if they're being tunneled They do it to win? Speed up gens if a survivor is hooked multiple times in a row within a short amount of time. They do it because they enjoy ruining other people's fun? Ban the player, people like that have no place in a community.
I usually only hard-tunnel when survivors try to take hits immediately after getting unhooked. In my mind it's like "oh? you wanna take hits? why, take as many as you like😈"
I do this now for like a month or about. I dont hard tunnel, but if survivor getting unhooked begins to body block for their teammate, who unhooked him he gets downed instead of his unhooking teammate. And when i told him after game due to his complains that i tunneled him, that devs made burrowed time for everyone for free so that you DONT get tunneled and could GTFO of killer's sight, he answered: don't fucking teach me how to use my skills and play the game. And i have to notice, i used to play nice when i began to stream and forcing me almost-new youtube channel (like 5-6 months ago). I was letting 1-4 survivors alive every game intentionally (thru gates or hatch, just let em go). Month ago i stopped doing this, because like 60-80% of time instead of "thank you" i recieved tbagging and trashtalking in end game chat. Complete disrespect by survivors of killers leading to toxic killers who full camp and tunnel no matter what. And that leading to more toxic survs. Never ending cycle. I'm still trying to be nice guy, not tunneling. But if i see survs playing toxic way, or body blocking people after being unhooked, then they shouldn't expect me to leave them after this and still going for someone else, but not them. This is just unlogical and stupid. This is just so fucking sad really...
I don't know why they don't just make it so you lose collision with the killer if you only have the basekit endurance after being unhooked. Keeping collision for perks like BT or OTR is fine, that could be classed as perk value, but the basekit mechanic shouldn't allow for bodyblocks
@@Jack0f4lltrades Yup. Two games in a row I mercilessly annihilated with Huntress, playing as optimally as possible. I gave hatch twice, each time getting called a tunneller *by the person i gave hatch to.* I have never given hatch since. Well, one time since my snoot had been booped so i kind of didn't have a choice . . . but aside from that one time: no mercy.
its a killer thing its easier for killers and alot less stress when vsing 3 not not 4 so some tunnel out the first they see so that its not as stressful
I have never had a harder time with survivor and an easier time with killer since I started playing dbd lol. With the addition of the survivor buff with seeing what other people are doing I’m only realizing how little everyone does. My issue is I can’t climb the mmr and I’m stuck at low-mid mmr. Im better than the survivors I play with but am still not good enough to run the killer the entire game and escape when no one’s getting me off hook. On the rare chance someone does I just get tumbled. It’s the same every game, killer gets a down, I flashy save, then the killer comes after me and I get left on first hook. The only way I can escape is to play selfishly and not help my team but that’s what they’re doing to me and I don’t want to perpetuate that cycle. So I die just as many or more times than I escape. I played all night last night and didn’t get tunnled or left on hook TWICE. I’m excluding the several games where the killer was afk which I’m seeing a lot more of as well. Several of these games I have ran the killer for 4 or five gens and still no one gets me. I recorded almost all of them that night and watched them back to make sure I’m not just terrible and there was literally only ONE game where someone else took a hit for me when they saw me being tunnled. I added them and chatted for a while and they’re explaining the same thing I am. It’s play a play style I hate and eventually get better teammates or be stuck. Anyway if you read all this thanks for hearing me complain.
But Otz. You wanted this! Killers who tunnel do so because it’s the fastest way to get kills in the game (almost fast enough to counter gen speeds). You said yourself a long time ago that the game should be balance for kills. Now reap what you have sown.
@@ragnabolt683 as a clown main, they always do bro, sorry to say. Prolly more specific to clown because it dominates shack but yea, they insta drop against me every single game.
@@ragnabolt683 I can sometimes run the killer without god pallet. But as I rank up that becomes more rare. Bringing any means necessary can help when people waste it/use it.
Honestly, the thing I hate most about tunneling and camping is that I, as a survivor, lose pips and BP for something that I really can't control, especially in Solo Que. I don't get to play the game. Personally, I think that can be fixed by simply rewarding the survivor for being tunneled or camped out of the game. Just give em 1 or 2 pips for it; that way they get compensated for it on the back end. Now when I say Tunnel, I mean Survivor gets hooked, gets SAFELY unhooked, then gets ran down; rinse and repeat 2 more times. I don't mean Survivor gets hooked, gets unhooked right in front of the killer and gets ran down cause he's injured. That's the teammates fault, not the killers. Same with camping. I mean Survivor gets hooked the first time and the killer just hangs out for second stage or death. Id' like to think that would be BHVR's way of saying "sorry, we suck at balancing our game, here's a some extra BP because you probably got tunneled or camped a couple of times" or something like that.
As someone who doesn’t play, this has got to be the weirdest, most backwards thing I’ve seen a community have an issue with. You have a game where the idea is ruthless psychopaths are stalking people to kill them and prevent them from escaping, and then say it’s a problem when they…. Ruthlessly stalk you to prevent you from escaping. What? This is like playing TDM and saying it’s not fair someone on the other team keeps killing you. It’s like playing healer and saying to the other team “hey, you gotta stop killing me, I can’t heal my team” like…. Yeah. That’s the point. It’s how you win.
Visual representation of how much easier it is to tunnel compared to other strats: twitter.com/OtzdarvaYT/status/1621113703989903360
DS is poop now. How far can a survivor go with a 3 second stun? The stun timer of the DS starts immediately, so part of that time is spent getting off the shoulder of the killer. What does that even do? Wastes 7 more seconds of killer's time to pick the survivor up again? In the older days of Dbd, DS was such a threat you had to assume everyone had it. If everyone brings it now, is it really a threat or is it more like every survivor has 1 less perk to worry about?
I went from many tunnelers to a 90% in just one video.
It's sad that people take your videos this way
Just because tunneling is easier and a strong strat doesn't mean you need to do it. You nearly tied without tunneling which is fair. A tie is even for both sides.
@@shoonseiki nothing even if you playing really better then your opponents. There was So many good shreds from otz and So many misplays from survivors, and yet still, draw.
@@wernfreid5927 There were many misplays by Otz as well. Love how you ignore all those.
I forgot to define "Tunneling" for those unaware: "Focusing your hooks on the same Survivor repeatedly in order to get them out of the way as quickly as possible." Sometimes tunneling happens deliberately, sometimes it's accidental, sometimes it's even forced.
Gen rushing has gotten worst in DBD fucking hypocrite!!!
This is the reason I quit DBD. I hate being tunneled as a player and I hate tunneling as a killer.
Pig 50 win streak ? Take my money!!!!
Tunnel my eruption daddy
I tunneled once when a surrivor t bagged while I was using morbing frenzy mode, then surprised him by dropping the hit and run and straight to m1 and hooks
,then the entire group formation died and merciless killer with no double pip.
What I hate honestly is when you are a chill killer where you don't tunnel, you might even knock someone and not hook them because you felt bad. And then the whole group still acts like a dick
I often fail a lot of trials when I give survivors a chance like that.
For your own sake of mental. Play what makes you happy. Even if you play nice and go for 12 hooks people will still be toxic so just play for yourself. Also when you down someone and don't hook them most people assume you're slugging. Good luck being chill as killer. :C
Which makes me go on a STREAK of tunnelling cus shi if they gonna be a jerk so will i
I totally understand that. Though, i still commit myself to not tunnel. Maybe i do it for "Honor of the hunt". Maybe because i want people to have as fun as me and have a chance to actually play the game, and not being tunneled right off the hook and downed again. Sometimes, being the nice guy doesn't even slow down my way to 4k. Sometimes, i don't even make it to 4 hooks. Entity's will ! But i never tunnel cause i see no fun, then i feel no fun.
Play for your Fun not the fun of others who don't even care about you .
The reason why tunneling is so common is because there is no reward for not doing so, Doesn't matter how many Punishment you add on camping or tunneling, Killers will resort to more and more aggressive tunneling method or camp.
It was a huge mistake for Behavior to nerf perks that encourage leaving hooked survivors, Because it doing so, they removed the incentive to not tunnel, which results in more tunneling.
I think that artist perk should be basekit if you hook all the survs once, all gens would be blocked for some time it would rewarding killers for hooking multiple survivors
it's also borderline necessary. As a killer main, i find that the fun I have in games is pretty dependent on what the survivors choose. If they gen rush or even play efficiently I basically have to tunnel someone out to stablise.
For starters, they should have kept the bp bonus on bbq
@@Lyahrklol I mean, with that same reasoning, there needs to be a basekit DS for everyone as long as more than 3 gens are standing. So no one gets tunneled out early game without a real deterrence for most killers who actually tunnel anyway.
@@Lyahrklol I was having the same thought. However, at this current state of the game I think it'd hurt the game more than help it. Oppressive killers such Blight, Spirit, and Nurse will become stronger. Plus, imagine triggering Eruption on 4 gens and then hooking the last person. The survuviors wouldn't even be able to stop the regression before it gets blocked.
They'd have to do a huge meta shift and completely change perks to better suit having perks be basekit.
the depressing thing is that the two perks that give you a direct reward for playing "nice" lost the only reason to use them
Which perks?
@@b1akn3ss93 I guess perks like BBQ and chili, where you get more BP if you get a hook all 4 survivors. Incentivize some people to get at least 1 hook on each survivor at early game.
I guess the only one that still works is No Way Out since it adds more time to blocking the exit gate switch when you hook each survivor once.
@Tight n Nerdy last night i broke this knights devour as they were coming to check it and got faced camped for it until i died 😅
@@b1akn3ss93 bbq and we're gonna live forever
@@pepethefrog6809 Its a fallacy that BBQ and Chili was an "anti-tunnel" perk. Killers could still tunnel with the perk on and by the end of the match, if they kill everybody, they would still get all the bloodpoints.
I love the mental battle of "pretend to be stupid" but getting punished for because the opponent was entirely expecting the stupid play. Playing so many steps ahead of them you ended up behind them.
Ds needs a buff imo
Alot of 5 gen tunneling
@@bolt5916 ds doesnt need a buff, there needs to be a deterrrence like DS basekit untill at least 2 gens are finished. Same logic on disabling: doing anything to progress the game disables it, so if you get "tunneled" after you touched a gen, its on you.
Heck, I think DS basekit for the first 2 gens would honestly be fine. Current killer pacing overall allows to go the old non-tunnel meta(hook s1, then hook s2, then s1 again, then s2 again or s3, then kill s1), but the soloq experience, even with the buffs, still allows for a relatively easy kill early on by just tunneling.
Played so many steps ahead he ended up lapping them twice an is right behind them in 1st place
@@Predated2 lol no.
I play like 60/40 killer/surv, escape majority of my games without second chance perks, it's a team game, if you're getting tunneled just buy as much time as you can for your team.
Some games you just lose, that's fine. You don't hear me asking for corrupt intervention basekit despite how bad spawns can be for low mobility killers on large maps. Just play better, but accept some games you're just not going to win.
This comes down to the shortsightedness Behaviour has when it comes to balance changes. I'm not sure the balance team fully understands that the changes they make to the ecosystem of the game (all perks, items, addons, abilities, and maps working together) create problems that are exponential and stack upon themselves the more they get tweaked.
It's not just that, it's that they balance based on numbers instead of actual gameplay feedback. Most people who play the game at a decently high level know the easy common sense solution to so many of the issues the game has, but behavior doesn't care as long as the numbers look good.
It doesn’t help that they created an even more strict Meta since apparently “fixing it” they just made a new generation of stupidly strong perks that everyone runs and nerfed the old perks into being useless.
@@lastleft5809 Conspiracy theory alert.
I think people like to blame developers for everything instead of just admitting the truth that it doesn't matter how "balanced" a game is, people are just a**holes..
@@BabysitterSky Yeah, a lot of these things wouldn't be a problem if people just loosened up a little, going for both sides
This is true. As a killer main, I have been playing survivor lately and get tunneled probably every other game. It's wild.
We dont play by the survivor rulebook. No more t bags at the exits. Killers are playing to win now especially since we are in an endurance perk meta.
@@Flex4LX we are not in an endurance perk meta lmao
@@Flex4LX we? its you loser
@@Flex4LX there's no endurance meta, lol. Off the record? Pretty weak, easy to ignore this surv. Mettle? This perk kicks in one time in 10 matches or smth, pretty hard to get and survivor spending extra time on taking hits/healing, benefits to the killer. Dead hard? simply wait, lol
@@Flex4LX facts, except it's more like endurance/second chance meta
Although I wasn't sure on why this was happening, I did see a significant increase in the tunneling strategy in my games as a survivor. And I mean tunneling from the get go. Five gen tunneling.
A lot of people use the amount of gens as an acceptable point. Doesn't matter how many are left, all it takes is 1 bad chase and you lose the game
I mean, the killer is supposed to wait out until 1 gen left to star tunneling? They can for sure, but that doesn't make much sense
@@sthepcorms6747 sometimes they’ll spread more pressure in the beginning to then get someone out of the game after 2nd state.
@@BradyPartain 5 gen tunneler here
@@22ina Hes not wrong. You can lose 3 gens within 10 seconds of one popping against a swf. After that two survs can blow through all of the maps pallets while the other 2 finish gens. At 2 gens it becomes almost impossible to beat a 4 man because they can now equally split gen pressure and chase time.
I still hold the opinion that the removal of the bonus BP from BBQ drastically attributed to the less healthy playstyles becoming more prevalent/popular, with old BBQ you were rewarded as killer to not "play like a dick" but without it you are just left to pick what is most effective and sometimes that isnt fun :^)
I agree, it was a huge mistake for the devs to have done that and it wasn't even necessary as Blood Points aren't all that hard to acquire anymore.
AGREED! keep BBQ/CHILI bonus, but no bonus for We're Gonna Live Forever because that perk caused SO MANY 'farming simulator' moments that you could tell when a survivor had it. NOBODY sacrifices themselves for nothing lol
@@christopherestes6760 I was going to mention that earlier yeah. I don't think Survivors need it as much as killers do, and I actually prefer the new version of We're Gonna Live Forever with the endurance on pick-up over the older farming version.
Definitely. I used to play for 4 BBQ hooks all the time, with kills being a bonus. Now spreading hooks around is just a bad strategy. The only possible benefit is to rule out jumping off hook later in the game.
@FranK well camping isnt a meta, tunneling is, and proxy camping sure, but thats not really a meta, you dont base a meta off the worse killers, you base it off the better ones, and if a killer can manage their time and keep pressure then they wont even feel the need to tunnel
Man poor Cheryl. Hopefully she has a medkit to heal that.
What living in Silent Hill does to a mf
@@The300Player I'm not sure. I haven't gotten past the mail part yet. Then I chose to quite playing the game because it was the collection... In like 2 or 3 years I can probably answer your question.
Honestly true
She is so beautiful and cute.
in the thumbnail Cheryl looks so cute 😍🥹🥲
I’ve felt this a lot recently, I took a break from the game due to being busy with life stuff and have been eager to get back. So many games since that break have just been tunnel after tunnel and I’m the first out of the game.
Yea sadly blame the survivor community. They complained so much about gen defense perks and got them nerfed that killers are adapting this tunnel and camping strat to even have a chance to win
@@JRG_REDD killers whine just as much sadly, they go against a few good survivors and then suddenly its the end of the world. they take it to twitter and complain and moan abt dead hard still, to this day. they complain abt adrenaline etc, survivors complain abt eruption, pain res dead man combo etc. ive just accepted that many ppl have fragile ego’s so they do something in a game bc someone shattered it, whether that being tunneling or being t-bagged and bullied.
@@SanrioSukuna 100% percent agreed. At the end of the you can't make everyone happy that's impossible. But the devs gotta take a bit of accountability for this. They're pushing the game in the wrong direction. Balancing for new and weak players only. They seem to forget that all these changes they make for them hurts a lot of the more competitive people like us and high level players. Which has created this toxic back and forth we have today. But of course the majority beats the minority and the majority is survivors so they are slowing pushing this game to the ground
Well.. that sounds very biased to me. You should pay attention how prevalent it really is
loop better
I'm a big DbD lurker. I've never played the game, but for years now I've watched others play and taken part in discussions. And one thing I always thought seemed odd was how killers would have to go out of their way to "not be toxic" by playing sub-optimally. Less active players means slower gen progression, of course I'm going to target whoever I see that has the lowest amount of hooks remaining. Less gen progression then means more time in game, more opportunities to hooks, more opportunities to kill. It was always this one little bit of game design that bothered me.
And the worst part about it? Even if you go out of your way and make the game 50% harder on yourself, you still get offended by survivors.
This game has the worst community I've ever seen, when I played, I couldn't play 2 matches straight where the survivors weren't trying their hardest to be jerks and make me feel bad.
honestly, u either know or dont know. There is a reason people complain usually and there is certainly BM behavior on both sides. I never get raged at as killer, no matter if im sweating or going ez. May have a lot to do with the killers i play too as they are typically considered to be the worst. @@matheusarantes2989
everyone finds bm to be different as well. Tunneling, face camp, these things irritate me. But nothing makes me more tilted than a killer slugging in a 2v1 to drag the game and secure both kills. Many people dont care about it but to me it is the ultimate BM. @@matheusarantes2989
and when i play killer, i hate feeling utterly disrespected by survivors. when they just run around and dont even try to stay hidden, or follow u to a hook and unhook instantly. i go full tryhard. tryhard survivors, teabagging, flashlights are all fairplay to me. Getting looped over and over is apart of the game. But i hate when people act like the killer is just not even there. Some are overconfident, some truly dont care, but all piss me off. @@matheusarantes2989
There comes a certain point when you play killer where you notice you can count the amount of times survs played nice on one hand. Then you see the teabags at the exit gate and ask yourself wait why am I handicapping myself again?
It's like leaving the gun at home for a fist fight then the opponent brought a knife. Next time you're bringing the gun.
@@silentkhaos1176
Problem comes when you get into the next fist fight
You brought the gun due to the last one bringing a knife, but this new opponent only brought their fists
It’s a never ending cycle
@@evehellod9776 Yep. That's a perfect representation of the current DBD meta. When you get tired of being bullied, so you brought all the meta stuff, but then this causes you to bully someone else and then they bring their meta stuff the next game. A never ending cycle of casual gamers getting tired of being shit on by the meta.
@@evehellod9776 you can also always just play nurse and play extra sweaty vs the toxic people and try to meme vs noobs/casual while also not entirely throwing the game if you dont want to farm
@@evehellod9776 that's exactly the problem, when you get your ass kicked you wanna bring stronger stuff, but it's just that, a never ending cycle, I've slowly given up with this game man it really sucks sometimes
I would love to see that hooks vs. kills debate again now ^^ I think if the game focuses on kills OBVIOUSLY you're going to kill one the fastest you can - survivors are not pushing a gen to 50% and then going to another...
I deleted the game yesterday after I opened a thread in the subreddit. I shared 3 screenshots showing me asking the survivors I played against "What was my mistake this round?" in a 1k match with trapper. They told me that I played perfect but they were 4 man swf and there was nothing I could do. It made me realize that for a fun game for one side the other needs to suffer heavily. Most of the people in the subreddit told me that I should only play meta perks and killers. Others told me that I am only crying after one loss.
Of course the thread which had 70 comments in half an hour was removed due to it being a "ranting" thread, which was actually a discussion thread where I was pointing out to this issue of killer main being forced to play with tunnels, camps, meta perks/killers etc. I guess unless you are Otzdarva or another famous DBD player, your opinion or arguments does not matter in this community. Its such a strange coincidince that you uploaded this video Otz. It gave me the assurence that I am not the only one realizing the problem of forced toxicity. I hope this community and developers realize this issue and make an effort to change it instead of blaming others or forcing them to play the meta. I will be taking a year long break from the game. I hope next time I download it, these problems would be solved. Otherwise, it would be just a platform where toxicity is seen as a necessity. Take care, love your content.
In regards to youtubers having the only valid opinions, I agree with that. I think a lot of gamers do that. However, they do a lot of testing so that's what makes them more credible. Also, they have most of their tests on their channels. They can defend their arguments much easier due to them having moving evidence to back up their claims.
@@emmanuelmunchies Dude my point was that this issue is plaguing the game for a long time and only the content creators' opinions are accepted as the truth while the rest of the players in the community are blamed for other reasons. However, I was not blaming TH-camrs when I said that. I love Otz and his content. Its just that when I pointed out to the same problem the players and the community administration blamed me for ranting, while Otz is being praised in the comments.
Yeah, I hang the game up between events, pretty much, and I've learned to completely abandon playing to win. It's not worth the ambiguous glory of winning with meta, or the time investment of getting anywhere near Otz's level if you're not built just right. I slap together gimmick builds and just try to extract some fun plays and quest rewards when I play, but there is Evil Dead over on Epic, too...
but... you are playing the weakest killer with weak perks(?) vs the strongest possible thing of a 4 man swf... Why should you have any right to win If anything it seems unfair you even got 1 of them... Just play to have fun dude, thats the point of a video game. Its okay to lose once....
@@SecureBirch410 You also made the same mistake as others did. Read it properly please.
After extensive testing in a ten minute custom game with bots, we at BHVR have found tunneling to be too strong and rewarding for killers. To combat this, we carefully considered numerous options over lunch break and chose what we feel will be the best one going forward. All survivor perks are now base kit, Brand New Parts will instantly fully repair all five generators with no skill check necessary, Decisive Strike stuns for 69 years, Dead Hard teleports the survivor to the nearest pallet or window and no longer has a cooldown, and Prove Thyself files the survivor's taxes in real life. In addition, all killers now move at Nurse's base speed and powers have been removed entirely, while basic attacks now give the survivors a relaxing foot massage.
The Pig has also been buffed.
I was with you until the pig buff, that's too unrealistic it would never happen
"To compensate these changes, successful attack cooldown has been reduced by 0.001%"
Was an honor to get a match against you. I played that match so badly, but you were being so fair and nice. We were not a 4man swf, i was only playing with my boyfriend Joltie. Playing fair sadly makes killers lose matches they would otherwise win. I try to play fair most of the times too, but i end up losing due to that and still getting bagged and insulted.
Sore winners really do discourage people from playing nice in the future.
you guys were crazy, done those gens so fast. wp
But tunneling and camping are fair playstyles. Unfair play is hacking and exploiting bugs. There is such a thing as unfair game mechanics, but that's a development issue.
@@StudleyDuderight absolutely!
If a killer tunnels a survivor, then just do 3 gens and win
Honestly, I play Killer, and mostly play nice, unless the survivors are really fun to play against. When I lose this way, I am normally really fine with it, and willing to accept that I played less than optimally, along with some human error on my part, and that it caused me to lose. I, being a mostly survivor player (most of my 700-800 hours are on survivor) have gotten sick of the much more prevalent tunneling, even when it’s unprovoked, so I struggle to justify doing it myself and even feel bad doing it.
Hilarious that the devs thought nerfing pro hook perks, nerfing killers that didn't need nerfs, and adding boons would not make killers tunnel more than before. Map design is another part of this too.
It was all done on purpose they're feeding on your disdain
@@memer7987 care to elaborate?
@@lofaiskov They are the Entity
@@meowkittymeowmeow2786 ty
@@meowkittymeowmeow2786 ty
I think that the game's version of anti-tunnel really focuses on "It is harder to tunnel this person so don't do it!!!" Things like OTR and DS discourage tunneling on paper but really they just prolong it. If someone has both of those perks, and the killer just goes through them, how much time do they really buy? The killer just gets infinitely more time from killing one person early, because having three survivors just makes everything so much tougher. You hook one, you chase one, the third has to go for the hooked person. You down the person you're chasing, you hook them, you chase another, repeat. Tunnelling after the first survivor becomes unnecessary but that first survivor NEEDS to be tunneled.
I'm not sure what the best solution is. Do they add reasons to spread hooks for the killer? It'd have to be something base kit because there are already perks that encourage the spreading of hooks, but if those perks aren't the best then people will just tunnel instead. It's pretty rough all around.
I absolutely agree with you. In most cases, OTR and DS gives you so little time, when the killer is actually going for the kill. Otr is countered by literally camping and slamming right after unhook and DS is a mere joke against most of the killers. Ofc, sometimes they do win survs games and it's not that uncommon to happen, but still, playing 1v3 in a 3gen scenario is a done deal for the killer, deliberatly.
Speaking of ways to somewhat counter this mechanic, well, I have a few ideas, but we don't know, how turns out in practice. For example, give survs gen speed bonus after 1/2 persons died. Also You can boost survs gen speed after 15-20 minutes into the match, so if the killer starts to do 3gen start and REALLY slowing down the game, there's at least some kind of counter to it.
All in all, there's not really going to be the way to counter tunneling by itself, unless breaking the game completely and making it simply unfair for the killer, but at least here' some suggestions on how to fix the consequences of such actions.
The best solution is to stabilize the game.
Make it so that after every survivor’s death, ALL survivors get actions speed buffs to compensate.
This way, gens should take as long for 4 people to repair as long as it does for 3 etc.
This will encourage the playstyle of “hook everybody twice, then kill them all in one endgame sweep” - since, otherwise, killer will be “punished” for killing people prematurely.
I speak it as a killer main. We NEED it. The game should be balanced both around having 4 and 3 people.
Currently, having 4 people alive is too much and having 3 people can be too little.
Obviously the killers will need some buffs as a whole to deal with the direct buff to survivors (since games will last shorten on average). But, in the end, it will all be good.
So, essentially, give all survivors pre-reworked “Last Survivor” (activetes after every kill), and give every killer an additional useful power.
Together, this will not only make the game more enjoyable (since you interact with all survivors at once) for both sides, but also can warrant opportunity for killers to be more interactive as well.
Example: Nemesis can get Rockets from opened vaccine/supply cases, and then can have the ranged telegraphed projectile attack (temporarily) instead of his tentacle.
Technically, it will still be his “tentacle” power, but will have a different animation, a visible warning of it’s path and a much greater range.
Likewise, give the power to Clown to make intoxicated survivors (away from his and out of chase) “sleepy”, so that they fall asleep while repairing gens, and need to choose between going to other teammates to wake up (old Freddy) or risk falling asleep before they are done with repairs.
Give demogorgon ability to teleport with downed survivors through portals.
Give Cannibal free basekit insidious, but make it so that the recently unhooked survivor will not be able to go down against for a good amount of seconds AND rescuer can still perform rescue for a few seconds after being struck by chainsaw. This will encourage “trade” patterns, without being overly oppressive. Akin to killer-sided “For the people”.
Make Sadako phase through all obstacles and walls, but in doing so temporarily increase her manifestation time.
Make Huntress’s hatchets go through walls if they have traveled for more than 16-40 meters. Kinda Entity empowering that throw and allowing it to fly through the mist itself.
Make Legion be able to become imposter and inflict MUCH longer deep wounds to the first survivor struck, but be unable to down them by any means (see Bubba). However, the number of successive attacks to down will reduce from 4 to 3. This will be both viable in coordinated matches, without being oppressive in solo-play (they will give a good scare to the team and the first survivor, but won’t be able to target/down them directly).
Remove collision tantrum from Billy, but make it so that overheat jumps significantly after bumping. Increase the overall overheat meter’s capacity as well to compensate. (So, he will get overheat from bumping, but won’t get many/as much from rewing and sprinting for long).
Give Twins ability to have Victor be controlled by AI every time he is stunned, as opposed to him just disappearing. So that he still brings value (information and potential hinderance), but cannot be precisely controlled for X seconds. Make “confused” Victor target all survivors that are not in chase/outside of certain radius away from Charlotte. This way Charlotte can gain good auto-game-stall, but at the expense of good survivors luring Victor very far away (which wastes time, since he no longer re-spawns).
Give Myers ability to instantly break pallets and walls in his Tier 3, but make it so that he loses some % of the overall tier meter (ending it earlier) by doing so.
Give Spirit ability to create her clones around every survivor while they are phasing for a jump-scare. These clones will smack survivor after a couple seconds, but cannot move - disappearing after a completed swing. This will force survivors off gens (since they will be standing still next to her copies, in risk of being hit). Both game stall and fun factor.
Etc etc etc. All at the expense of every remaining survivors getting 33%/50% repair speed boost for every killed teammate respectively (so that the overall possible repair speed is intact).
The thing I basically always say:
The Killer role feels so stressful you have to sweat really hard to even be considered a threat
Until they do something about that, there's always gonna be face campers and tunnelers
Just so you can secure at least 1 kill and feel somewhat relieved
This is why I quit killer. As survivor it felt okay to die, and it felt good to win but it wasn’t super crazy. You just have to survive, thats literally it. Don’t have to feel bad about dying either because odds are other people might too, so you’re not really the ‘worst’.
But as the killer you’re supposed to be better, you’re supposed to get them all, and its like a ticking clock going against you. Its like having 10 minutes to finish a test you’re having a hard time on, super stressful. Its why I stopped playing killer.
I’m not interested in sweating, because I’ve never had a game where I just can play casual as killer and get more than 1 kill lol. (Except for that one time I was Legion and none of the survivors knew how to mend).
This is the main crux of the problem, they either have no idea how to make playing killer fun or they don't care to. I hate being told I'm a sweat or a tryhard when I play killer because yes, I do have to try hard if I want anything from the killer experience. I have slept walked to dubs as a survivor, I barely had to do anything even against good killers, but the only way I sleep walk to a dub as killer is if the survivors are genuinely awful.
i like feeling of being a threat but DBD is slowly loosing it because in my opinion this game is to easy for survivors and to stressful for killers i'm not even saying about getting kills i am saying about having fun as the killer
part of that is perspective as well. I hate playing survivor because it feels like I'm responsible for both my success and my teammates',while as killer I'm happy just to get good shots, funny downs, a billion BP, or just good chases.
Had a really rough match against a bunch of 3k hour dudes, but it wasn't too stressful because they were having some fun as well.
I also have 60 frightful flans I need to burn through on one killer alone so I just play agitation + mad grit builds.
@@AttacMage good point tho
I honestly think a big part of it is how bad it feels to lose as killer. As a survivor you can have a million different excuses (whether they’re true or not) like that you were messing around or your team sucked, but when you lose as killer it’s like you have nobody to blame but yourself. Then you get some survivors who will beat on you endlessly for losing just one match by teabagging at the gates, BMing in endgame chat, or just generally being annoying in other ways. Not to say that there aren’t toxic killers or that all survivors are toxic, but I feel that it hurts so much more to lose as a killer with survivors that take every advantage they can possibly have than to lose to a killer that does the same, leading to some killers making their matches impossible to win.
Edit since some people like taking one specific part of my comment and using it to disregard the entire statement:
Teabagging isn’t the main problem. It’s just that people will combine that with other annoying behavior and then bring it outside of the game to bother me when I just want to enjoy the game. I couldn’t care less that I lost or that a person pressed control a few times at the end, it bothers me when people will go out of their way to harass or humiliate me outside of the game itself just because I had one bad match.
As killer you can blame the maps, the perks, the gen spread, items, lag, game bugs. It's not that hard to come up with an excuse. The main issue is the terrible game design. Super fast healing combined with 20-40 seconds that it takes to get a hit.
Plus, when killers lose, they still have to stay in the entire match. When I get tunneled as a survivor and die early on, at least I’m out of the game, and can find a new one. But if I have a horrible first chase as killer, and I just know the game is lost. Too bad, I have to stay for the entire trial. It can feel pointless continuing to play the match. Even worse, if I do just say “ok, games over, time to stand in a corner” 9 times out of 10, the survivors will come find me and spam flashlight blinds and or T-bag constantly. Pretty much anything other than finishing the game.
I find it funny people are still complaining about tbaggin. I got tbagged as a kid when playing the first Halo. How on earth are you still complaining about this?
If losing a game on dbd hurts that badly, it is a sign to go touch grass.
@@rickkcir2151 As killer you can't give up, I have won countless matches after losing horribly at the beginning of the match. As a killer main I am expected not to give up and to try to win no matter what. If I am having a bad day closing the game and playing a different actually fun game is always an option.
As a game designer; this info you guys are providing me is a lot more helpful than you realize. The devs trying to design out the problem rather than give a new toy to introduce to the toy box seems to hurt the fun of a game overall.
You trying to listen to player feedback makes you a far more competent game designer than BHVR will ever be.
@@Blackpapalink at the same time, sometimes we as players think we know what we want when the things that we ask for do more harm than good. That's not even just in the context of dbd.
@@JustAKonchu True, the best thing to do is find a middle ground
Its crazy too because its not like you played poorly at all. All of the chases were fairly short. You got several pain res hooks. You got a few "free" injuries. Theres not really anyway I could see inprovement other than the grab at the end and tunneling.
that’s what i’m saying, and even then at the end, grab or not the game was already set pretty much
It's a shame the community has had such a hard time understanding this, and has ostracized other creators who realized this beforehand.
Anyways, I hope the devs can make some changes that put the game in a healthier state. I have friends who won't play because of the camping/tunneling.
Otz campaigned to have the grab removed anyway so can't rely on that
The reason Killer mains tunnel more is obvious: It used to be that I could tunnel halfway into the game when I started losing. Now, if I don't tunnel straight away, it's too late. They've already won if they're good. I can't start playing sweaty halfway in the game anymore, because survivors get too much momentum. I need to get you to 3 survivors before you're on 1 gen or I've already lost. And I can't start tunnelling later because you have 12 seconds of BT and so much tunnelling protection now. So I have to tunnel straight away, not knowing if you're all trash or not. If I play nice, I get destroyed. If I tunnel, even without specific perks, I have a fun game and probably win, or atleast get to play. I have to tunnel. I've been left with no choice because of all the anti-tunnel.
Playing survivor is easy these days. I just gen rush until Im chased but half the time Im watching TH-cam. Meanwhile the killer is sweating his ass off 😅
@@thicccorgi6187how is playing survivor easy?😭
@@djjones3831 they don't have an actual reason, they're just talking out their ass, they're killer mains pretending they play survivor. They probably complain about gen rushing and somehow think anti tunnel perks are bad for the game. They don't want to improve in chase as a killer. They only care about winning, not being good at the game.
@@NewSirenSong u might be on to something lol
@@NewSirenSongi think you never played killer in life, bc you don't know how hard is catch good Survivor even when you're the best killer in the World. If you think im wrong or that i need to learn more how to chase, lets play 1v1
That demo game was so clean. It's insane you only got one kill.
Yep, I think I saw one tiny mistake in that game that he made, but he simply played too fair in a meta where you absolutely can't
He got one kill because devs have made this game so easy for survivors it’s disgusting
I like how he keeps saying this perk has been nerfed…. Lol they all have because as soon as a perk works survivors cry then it’s nerf city
@@russrtspooling7702So easy kill rates are over 60% even in top MMR. Absolutely crazzzzy. Survivors should just let themselves get on the hook with how hard it is as the killer (even when this is a killer-sided patch) 😢
@@oscar3153 you make a very good point will high kill rates, but I still think you're wrong. Are kill rates high with you 8 hooking everyone before you get a kill? No, they aren't. They get someone out early, camp, tunnel. If survivors didn't complain about literally everything, we wouldn't be in this meta. They complained about people playing fair with Corrupt and pop. So they nerfed those perks. Now there's call of brine and eruption where killers tunnel and camp. And survivors are complaining. And now they're nerfing eruption, which is very needed. But the previous meta didn't need a nerf.
It's kind of sad how quickly you can turn a losing game around by tunneling; it makes me feel like the game either wants me to be an asshole or lose. It's like I'm playing against an equally skilled opponent, but if I don't give myself a handicap I'm a "boring player". I get that tunneling makes the game more boring for the victim, but demonizing it only fuels hatred for the other side since it comes across as "Let us win easier" instead of "let everyone play the game" because of how necessary it can be to win matches.
The messed up part is for every killer player, there are 4 survivor players, so of course they can scream "unfair" louder than the killer side. I'm a survivor main but I feel bad for killers. We can't play however we want then trash talk killers for playing a certain way.
If people want to not bleed out for 5 minutes then give us an option to let go when bleeding out, that's a dev issue not a killer issue. There's always gonna be sour survivors and sour killers, let them give up if they want to and move onto the next game.
❄️❄️
You're not an asshole for tunneling. It's just a video game. Look at the Japanese meta, they expect you to tunnel. Tunneling being "asshole" behavior is something that was invented by the western community. You're a slasher movie villain, do you think Jason Voorhees has a code of conduct about not murdering the same teen too much? It's silly.
Also don't let people calling you "boring" bother you. They're just salty because they got beat and they're trying to cover for their bruised ego by pretending to be above the game. I have never once seen anyone use that accusation in a situation where they didn't get outplayed. I watched a streamer's VOD back once after they ragequit, and they called me a boring killer for no other reason than I predicted their Dead Hard and didn't swing at them.
You feel like a asshole because you have the survivors feelings in mind, but what about your feelings? Do you want to have fun or play to win, or do you want to get tea bagged at the exit gates?
“Seems like a skill issue”
I am a survivor main, but I still probably have a hundred hours as killer. Anytime my teammates complain in EGC about tunneling or camping I try to remind them that it’s the killer’s job, it’s just a game, and sometimes there’s no better option for the killer, especially during end game collapse.
It’s gonna continue getting worse unless the devs balance the game around hooks not kills and and give killers incentives or rank points for getting a certain amount of hooks.
when I play killer i found out that if I can get 4-6 hooks, 2 good chases, and damage multiple gens I can end the game at 30+ BP's even if I dont kill anyone. there needs to be a proximity penalty after hooking a survivor. If the killer is within a certain distance of the hook the killer begins to lose hook points, if the killer persists, loss of chase points will be added UNLESS the killer is in a chase around the hook (I know the dev's can code that- they coded eruption to stack with starstuck...)
You realize that we are talking about tunneling right? Tunneling is about getting all the hooks as fast as possible, while camping what makes you get less hooks.
@@Spidermanbetweenthighs Right but if we balance the game around hooks tunneling and camping would probably decrease with this.
@@christopherestes6760 This proximity thing is dumb because sometimes you need to camp especially endgame
Exactly. Killers need to be rewarded for playing in a way that also happens to be the most fun for their opponents (meaning: going for multiple different hooks). If playing in such a way is more likely to make you lose while putting in much more work in the process, well... but og course many DbD players even in this very comment section don't realize this and cry for new punishment for Killers playing in an "unfun" way instead which ironically makes these "unfun" play styles even more necessary because the alternatives don't magically become more viable for those trying to win. Pushing through all the second chance perks, the Endurance, the potential body blocks, sabo attempts etc. to get a Survivor out asap is the best method of slowing the game down, period. Making this process more difficult won't make going for hooks more appealing since you still barely get anything for it. This has to change, no matter how hard low to mid tier Survivor players looking for ez matches bombard reddit and the official forums with complaints. BHVR finally needs to understand which balancing concerns are valid (e.g. Eruption) and which should be ignored (e.g. all the crying about Pop, Ruin or tracking perks that lead Killers away from hooks onto fresh targets).
So frustrating to play both sides rn, as a survivor ive been feeling like im forced to run ds just to stop blighta feom tunneling at 4 gens. And as a killer I main demo and ghosty and some survivor groups are just horrible
Ds is useless it does litters nothing considering the killer stun time is so short now
@@milksteak6831 yup, survivor is op in squads but running solo is just frustrating at this point. I miss the old dbd when the community didnt suck
Yeah, I took a break a few months ago after playing 5 games in a row and being tunneled off hook at 5 gens. Since I returned a week or so ago I have noticed more of a tunneling meta when I play survivor. And the thing is, I'm a killer main so I actually completely understand it. "Fairly" going up against 4 competent survivors is the right thing to do, but leaves the Killer in an "unwinnable" situation.
Someone told me tunneling adds great pressure for some weak killers, that’s probably why many killers do it.
Yeah, the game is basically unplayable vs even average survivors if you can't consistently win mindgames as killer. The only exception are really strong killers (blight etc) or if you main just one killer and master him.
Yeah its the strongest strategy by far. Also if you are facing good survivors with deadhard, tunneling is better than regular chases since you get endurance out of the way at the start vs having to deal with 3 healthstates. I try to avoid it for casual games, but if more than one survivor has dead hard or I can tell its a very good swf and I want to win I'll probably tunnel a survivor out
@@hiriasbloodweaver8593 well even maining 1 killer won’t matter
Overwatch 2 has this thing called Metaslave. I’d say that’s what’s happening in DbD as well, which I sadly have to rely as Killer because when I wanna run a build for my preference the Survivors just blow gens in a instant and the game is over
@@taluca8474 it's not even about meta in my opinion, because yes you sometimes lose to a DH, adre, unbreakable or whatever, but that's once in a while. It's more about matchmaking and base game balance, because the AVERAGE killer game already feels unwinnable when survivors did 4 gens at 3 hooks through 3 slowdown perks.
Cycle of DBD, play killer, get destroyed by sweaty survivors bringing best items, get discouraged, remember why you stopped playing in the first place
Cycle of DBD, play survivor, bring no items, tunneled out first game, get tunneled out second game, get tunneled out third game, get slugged and left to bleed out 4 game killer lets you crawl to hatch but then closes it in your face. Uninstall
@@sonderbain Yep, Killers lose by players better than them. Survivors lose by shitty game mechanics that killer players abuse.
@@chandlerdrey6624 *crying infant sounds*
@@chandlerdrey6624 Dude, both sides lose to both. Saying something as dumb as this is what's wrong with the majority of this community
@@chandlerdrey6624 You did not just say that💀 that has to be the most ironic ass backwards shit I have ever heard a survivor main mutter
During my games I try not to tunnel on purpose, but sometimes its necessary when it comes to at least having 2-3 kills by the end of the match. I try to give survivors a chance by switching to a different target, but its feel more and more you have to tunnel in one way or another.
Facts, I used to try and do fun niche builds where I would go out of my way to not tunnel or camp, but recently It feels like win or lose, Im always critiqued poorly in end game chat, so now I really don't have a desire to play "fair", especially if the toxicity I have to deal with feels especially higher than usual. 🤷
@@popthypickle1726 People are gonna be toxic or complain regardless if you played "fair"
@@popthypickle1726 Today i played a game with hillbilly without tunneling or camping just enjoying chases and doing mindgames and stuff, i found two p100 and when i lost in the end and typed GG they called me boring, i dont understand this games community at all lol
I tunnel and camp on purpose because that is how you win. I have had games where I 2 hook everyone before I get a kill and those games are usually painful.
@@donalddean2037 and take a second when you wonder why everybody hates you. because you're one of those people who take games way too seriously.
I personally will have to disagree on camping being less. Maybe I'm just getting unlucky but I haven't noticed a difference.
Camping may have reduced where you play, but i played a lot of games last night where camp after camp after camp happened. It wasn't facecamping; camping has evolved into proximity camping in order to both camp and tunnel together. At least, that's been my experience.
Tbf, sometimes you just know the other survivors are around
Mindless camping is certain to lose you the match. When I know that someone is nearby though I won't leave because... why the hell should I? I know that at least one Survivor currently isn't on a gen and the guy on the hook obviously isn't either so I'll wait for the Survivors to make a move. Want me to leave? Make me by going back to gens. It's that simple, yet many Survivors - even those with multiple thousand hours - don't seem to understand this and complain because they reacted terribly to a camping Killer. Their fault, not the Killer's.
I have seen an increase in camping bubbas since the perk updates
@@xxLiquidxxSnakExx
Playing SWF it's not a problem, as you can communicate who to stake out the hooked survivor while the other two do gens. Playing randoms, there's a chance all 3 other survivors are scoping out a chance to unhook while being unaware that nobody is on gens.
Dude, not willingly letting the survivors unhook when they're obviously around is not "proximity camping". It's just not giving you an unhook for free.
I feel like the reward as killer for tunneling someone out will always be too high for it not to be the best option no matter what the state of balance is. Either killer is weak and you have to tunnel to have any hope of victory or killer is strong and tunneling is just the easiest way to win. I'm not sure what BHVR could change that would make it more optimal to hook multiple survivors.
A good idea might be making BBQ and chili the perk it was before to encourage getting multiple hooks but other than that I can't think of anything other than maybe extending the base borrowed time and increase the speed bonus the unhooked survivor gets
Exactly, right now there is no benefit to rotate survivors besides playing fair.
Literally all they would need to do is incorporate a large BP reward for hooking a different survivor, and incorporate combo mechanics so the killer gets more and more bp if they continue to avoid hooking the same survivor twice.
Honestly they could just provide some other viable options besides tunneling. As it is, either you tunnel or you get teabagged by 4 people at the exit gates.
@@camilomartan746 yea just make it even easier for survivors, good take.
I've never had a problem with tunneling until this week. Was tunneled in like 6 games to the point where I finally used DS. I never used that perk until this week just to somewhat combat it. It's very annoying.
Same! I'm going to eqiup it today for the first time ever.
Its what happens when the survivor community complains about gen defense perks so much. The more you complain and nerf killer perks the more killers will adapt. Which means more tunneling and camping
@@JRG_REDD Yeah bro because it’s sooo hard to play killer, not like CoB eruption literally holds your hand lmfao
@@lordballgrip2127 So dh, adrenaline and prove thyself holds yours.
Same. I was always trying to use some meme builds as a surv, but recently the game is just... I don't know, impossible to have fun most of the time bc of straight tunneling right from the start on 5 gens. Killers acting like bots with their tunnel-vision and other poor strategies. I know its just a game, but sometimes even I want to stay alive till endgame, lol. And now I am unbreakable/adrenalin/dh slave 💀
Ironic how a feature that was meant to balance the survivor experience made it actually less enjoyable than before
It was obvious that this is going to happen. Survivors are more efficient now so killers are forced to tunnel and camp if they want to win. I don't want to tunnel or camp because I know it is not fun for either sides but at the same time I don't want to lose because of three gens popping in the first chase...
@@Czesnek most people don't want to hear this but it's true. It's almost impossible to win against decent survs without a tunnel or two
@@cuppedcup Or people could change their mindset from having to win every game to finding a way to have fun. Nothing wrong with playing to win, it’s just that there’s no point in taking a casual game seriously that is by default designed with rng.
@@cuppedcupA) Otz was against a SWF with a BNP and Medkits
B) ~70% of matches are SoloQ
C) Otz didn't even have meta perks and was playing an arguably C-tier killer on a HEAVILY survivor-sided map WITHOUT the killer's best or even just better add-ons he had.
If you play a not-so-good killer, without meta perks, only decent add-ons, on a heavily survivor-sided map against a SWF with BNP and purple meats that had semi-meta perks as well, then no shit you can't win. How do you purposely play sub-optimally against another person playing optimally and expect to win without you also playing optimally or sweating?
You also statistically do not go up against good survivors or even SWF for that matter. So either you are just not as good as you think or you think you just so happen to be in the 30% of matches often, which is almost statistically impossible to happen consistently or even often.
@@InfiniteVoid117 say that to the survs who T-bag and click their flashys at every pallet
and even if you give up, they stay in the game and rub it in
no thanks, I prefer tunneling
I see someone getting hard tunneled out almost every game now and I'm not even high mmr. It's an awful feeling to be knocked out of the game in 5 minutes.
Then to sit in queue for 10 more
Same, one time it happened to be back to back games. A Trapper on Shattered Square downed me and camped me to death at gens. I wasnt even in basement. Next game I get a Huntress on Ormond, same thing happened. I get downed and camped to death at 5 gens.
And when its not as bad, I get tunneled. Like just yesterday I had a Dredge on Father Campbells Chapell that like hard tunneled me. Granted I didnt mind as I was in a swf and helping to get my friends a Yoichi adept(yes 2 people went Yoichi adept), so I didnt mind taking the heat that time
@@fart63 queues are short, wtf are you on?
I'm usually iri rank but haven't placed since last split so I'm ash and holy hell I couldn't believe how hard mfs tunnel at ash rank. It was so sweaty for no reason
@@GnarlyMystery420Gaming really?
Otz please, I'll be really happy if you make more like these direct talks in old fashion "Otz way" with community More, Thanks hope you have a great day !
I genuinely think the problem is the game doesn’t stress going after different survivors when there’s no reason to. Focusing on hooks ect. It feels miserable to be tunneled and I wish there was a solution as it’s one of the most unfun things on the survivor side to deal with. Aside from getting a nurse, lol.
Well, the most obvious solution is blood points penalties for tunneling. Is it good? Probably no, but it's hard to think of a better solution
@@Majster4K Make non tunneling strategies actually viable
@@colbyking5423 Oh yeah. I forgot about that. Sorry, after tough day my thinking isn't the best
@Asriel_As_You_Get I agree that this is probably the best way to do it (like basekit grim embrace or whatever) but it could potentially make survivors force you to tunnel with their off the record & bt plays to stop you from getting it to proc. Otz talked a lot about the potential negatives of any solution. The best way is to probably just allow tunnelling to exist but make the strategies listed above viable again.
just loop well. if uve got a good enough team, gens will pop
So what I'm getting from the comments is that survivors are NOT ALLOWED TO (demanded by killer players, the killers hand book if you will):
-Body block to save a team mate who is dead on hook
-Do the ONLY objective they have
-Heal too fast (Don't use healing perks! we're gonna make it? more like we're gonna be op amirite gamers?)
-use perks deemed OP
-use perks deemed "annoying"
-use certain skins
-play certain characters
-loop efficiently?
-predrop pallets but also don't loop too well
-crouch to avoid projectiles (it might be seen as t-bagging and that would hurt someones feelings)
-unhook (The killer was only 30 meters away that's too close!)
-play on certain maps (even if the game chose the map and no offerings were used)
-use items (even if they are low tier with no add ons)
-play with their friends
-communicate in ANY form (including quality of life UI changes)
-use perks that help them survive because tunneling is so prevalent and being slugged until bleed out is boring
-try to spin the killer as a last ditch effort to prolong a chase even if they're not using dead hard
-try to hide but also dont be good at chase
What ARE survivors allowed to do?
I've been running gimmicky meme builds for over a year now, I have not touched dead hard since its change and barely used it before the change (I always preferred balanced landing but too many maps have no where to use it) and it's not like the killer goes "Oh this guy isn't using OTR, unbreakable or DH I won't tunnel this nice fellow!" They just tunnel harder than before and force a 3 gen with their gen kick perks and say gg ez in end game
Now I've been playing since before the Twins chapter released and have every achievo in the game, play both sides but survivor more as I like to play with my friends (and the ui update makes playing solo queue more bearable) and just mess around and play casually and the vast majority of my games someone is getting tunneled early game (this is not counting end game at that point its definitely free game) and bm'd when NONE of us are using meta perks or doing anything to "provoke" the killer
So what are survivors SUPPOSED to do?
Now don't get me wrong I'm being pedantic on purpose, both sides act like they're allowed to do WHATEVER THEY WANT but the other isn't and the games balancing and nature makes having just a "fun match" uncommon because everyone's too busy with this US VS THEM mentality and arguing and crying like children and thinking they HAVE TO WIN EVERY SINGLE GAME
They care more about the 4k than fun
They care more about surviving than fun
I haven’t played this game in 5 months yet I watch his videos all the time. I genuinely enjoy listening to him talk and how nice a guy he is!
👌
Good killers have always tunneled since I started playing in Fall of 2018. Perks are nice but the best way to put pressure on survivors is to reduce their numbers; effectively making them do more with less.
MY MAN! you understand why I have always tunneled since the beginning of dbd. Imagine playing nice in a game where your whole goal is to take out as many survivors before they escape.
The main time I tunnel is just when people who got unhooked deliberately get in the way as I try to move. While body blocking a hit is one thing, sometimes they just stand in place just to keep you from walking, then move to continue blocking when you try to go around.
They need to not nerf tunneling but give incentives to spread hooks i dont think any of the weaker killers can afford not to tunnel if they want to scrape together a win without stacking slowdown and using a more fun build
I think the survivor solo queue info will make tunnelling worse. As a killer you have two sources of pressure Imo, you can pressure gens, or pressure the hook. When survivors don’t know who is going for the unhook, they might send multiple people, which gives the killer more time. When they can afford to just send one and keep cranking gens, it’s hard to convince me that I shouldn’t just defend the hook vs that one unhooker and force them to run, bring another person, or trade.
I think bhvr is underestimating how much killer gameplay happens in the time afforded by the lack of communication in a match. Idk if making more games like swf will be good in the long run because for the vast majority of killers, the response to an obvious swf is to camp, prey on altruism and try to force a 2k draw. Because chasing after gens with such efficient coordinated survivors is a death sentence
You can't see who is going for the rescue with the new soloQ hud, you have to use kindred to know, and that's a perk slot so what you say is not really a problem
Exactly, it is absolutely bonkers that they release an update like this without also rebalancing killer for it. Every single match will feel like a SWF sweat fest now. It is literally a race with the clock as survivors know exactly who is on gens and when gens will be done. This "solo info update" indirectly buffs the gen speeds massively.
@@fandezabuza4482 uhm you can see who's working on a gen and who's not and see their general progression. As soon as one person stops doing a Gen the other two will see it and assume that he's going for the unhook and they'll just keep doing their gens
@@fandezabuza4482 the one is not in a gen? Come on...
@@fandezabuza4482 Brain Dead😉
I think a big thing that makes being "nice" too weak, is the availability and speed of healing is absolutely excessive right now. I don't even need a medkit half the time to heal myself in 10 seconds, but to add green medkits being available every match and just the insane healing speeds makes it a trivial thing to do. There's no real tradeoff for the time spent anymore
yes. this, healing is so freely available and fast that even spreading out health states is only a massive time loss with how fast a surv can heal out of chase. without focusing someone for two (mabey three) health states, spreading out damage is so easily punished by the most common items/abilitys. you can try your heart out to get Thanatophobia vaule (-20% repair speed) against any amount of healing, OR you can tunnel, which is effectily a -25% to ALL surv actions. To quote Otz in this vid:
"She's already healed! It makes sense, but she's healed already!"
*Circle of Healing exists*
@@snowbiden5472 Even minor bullshit perks like Botany Knowledge and Leader are too fast. Me and my friend were doing Claudette/Dwight adept. Just those 2 paired together made healing go stupidly fast
I think another big reason tunneling has seen more and more play is largely the death of Decisive Strike in most builds. Previously alot of killers would go out of their way to avoid it, even slug someone because of it, now all killers largely ignore it as its barely an annoyance than anything else
I "lol'd" when you blurred that Mikaela going down at the end of the game.
My favorite build lately is to play Pig with Blood Warden, No Way Out, Remember Me, and Terminus. Then I bring Video Tape and Crate of Gears. I don't tunnel, I don't camp, but if the survivors mange to make it to end game, well then Ihave some backup, but honestly if they al get out, I'm okay with that because we all got good points, and that's what matters to me more than the kills, always has.
Eyup not to mention with the wiggle changes I've noticed killers would rather tunnel more than deal with boil over or sabo builds which has become now common
Yeah the boil over buff resulted In a lot of killers going gloves off and it hasn't gotten better
@@pandacheese7046 it's funny I woke up to seeing almost all my matches with a killer running iron grasp or mad grit. I was confused at first till I remembered the changes
The need to change BO so it doesn't stack with the new wiggle system or remove the crab walk that it forces on killers imo
I had an Elodie trying to abuse Boil Over on Pale Rose, I didnt wanna jump off stairs to hook her but go down manually. I failed to notice a hook because Boil Over obscures nearby hook auras and went to a further one away and she wiggled out and went upstairs on the boat again, and 2 No Mither David simps went to rescue her again and sabo any nearby hook.I eventually killed them all and gave Vittorio the hatch because he was the only one actually playing the game as he should.
Boil Over is such a bad perk. I hate perks that can be abused
I love how everyone complains about tunnelers, but also deny their fave youtubers recommend it. The dbd community is weird
the transition in 2:28 is awesome
I most often encounter "tunneling" when I accidentally run into the killer when I'm not entirely focused on the game, it's usually not them deliberately hunting me. It's obviously frustrating to get tunneled out at 5 gens, but how many gen rush builds exist? Probably at least 8 perk combos for finishing gens in much shorter time, plus toolboxes w/ brand new parts. If survivors can speedrun their objectives then killers are gonna do it too. Add in the fact that heals are basically free with medkits and circle of healing, idk what is expected of killers at this point. Everyone wants to win, that's the point of the game, and both parties can't win so both will probably go with the most efficient way to complete their objectives.
I have a unique playstylr where i will play strong at beginning but if it feels like survivors are too weak, i wont kill the last 2 or 3. If they r really strong, i have to kill them soon.
Even if you bring something to counter medkits, most of the time they also have totems, it is like dead hard, almost part of the basekit of a lot of survivors
i play overcome lucky break and medkits are insane. even with old lucky break i would pride myself on healing up fast getting my exhaustion back and going out to take another hit just to disappear from the killer, again to heal up. they are absolutely a problem.
Honestly I think balanced landing can be in some situations stronger than dead hard
@@remakefreddy9170 nah. U can get good value from balanced landing sometimes, there’s no guarantee you will run the killer in a place with drops, or that the map you’re on will have any height differences at all. Deadhard can always be used in any place, and you can activate it when you choose
@@fart63 unless the killer knows you have dead hard and half the time I’m exhausted on the floor
shattered hope needs to be base kit
Tunnelling lately has gotten absolutely ridiculous. Slugging is also WAY worse. The new merciless system hasn't helped. Even with the UI changes, solo survivors are in a miserable place.
This. SoloQ is miserable, Killer Mains are miserable, nobody's having a good time. :(
I'm gonna say this i used to play this game, and it has been years since i played it. And i always saw tunneling or the avoidance of it as a cool thing, because it showed that the players even tho they're against each other, can respect each other in a way. A form of camaraderie.
That's all cool and all, but if tunneling is detrimental to the game's 1v4 balance, then it should be up to the devs to try and find ways to balance it/fix it. Not up to the players to avoid the best way to play for any individual. So i'd say, that not abusing the best way to win gave the devs a reason to be lazy and not balance that part of the game.
I've been playing the game super nice-guy-y for ages but it feels more and more like the game is favoring the survivors so heavily with how fast gens can fly between perks, toolboxes, and BNPs, that it wants the killer to tunnel someone out just to reduce their team's gen repair speed, slashing their overall speeds by 1/4 is a pretty good reason to remove a survivor fast, so I can't really ever fault someone for choosing to tunnel.
See the problem with that is yes survivors can speed through gens, but all it takes is one Hook with eruption,Call of the brine,Scour-age hook, and pop goes the weasel/Corrupt with blight, nurse or wesker and any killer who can move around and boom the killer basically holds the game hostage.
@@zethroth0077 you do know you can do the same on the surv side as well right? Right now matches are just too fast. And it favors survivor. How many perks just increase gen repair speed? Along with tool boxes and add ons.
@@TheCoomManthere’s no way the game favors survivors… like ain’t no way
@@djjones3831 a lot has changed in 5 months buddy. A lot of very good perks for survivors got nerfed. Like circle of healing.
@@TheCoomMan I thought u were complaining about gen speed and perks that increase gen speed, last I checked they didn’t change much w that “buddy”😭
I enjoy the perk trends.
A lot of beamers and Boil Overs are causing me to run Iron Grasp and Lightborn currently.
Looking forward to that trend changing. 🙄
Lightborn encourages flashy survivors to go do gens instead of being useless while attempting flashy saves. And if they creep around after you down someone, just keep faking and try to get a hit on them. It usually scares them off. If it doesn't work tho, then slug the first one and go for flashy until you down them. Cause now you have one on the ground and one being chased, which is literally half of the team not doing gens.
Lightborn imo needs a slight buff. It should give a fake blind effect for the survivors to hide itself (and maybe some bonus bloodpoints just for the fun factor).
Its a fun meme perk to run currently and can lead to some free downs in lower mmr which is where i usually am anyways, but i think it would be nice if it wasnt so obvious to experienced players.
But seriously i have had games where the survivors try flashing me constantly and never pick up on it, its a lot of fun. With the fake flash effect it would do this at all ranks
@@christophernoneya4635 couldn’t agree more!!
Hilarious when they’re on their 3rd or 4th attempt at blinding. 😂
Your getting blinded??? Face a wall lmao, coming from a killer main that’s a totally wasted perk… along with iron grasp. 🤣
@@mikegreen1124 it helps at pallets, those bullshit broken windows, and locker saves, and baiting survivors for a free hit or two before they realize. Its a fun meme perk while impractical and the best part is no one expects you to actually use it lul
I think tunneling is bad for the game. It’s gives it way less replayablility as a survivor, which is 4x as many killers as you need. I play killer a lot, and find tunneling fairly unnecessary if my goal is 2k or more. Which is balanced really. When I play survivor, my patience runs thin with BM killers every other game (on a good night)
The worst part about tunneling becoming the most effective playstyle recently is that killer will generally tunnel a “weak link” or just a player they can down really fast. This becomes a problem when you try to play with any less experienced friends or let’s say your friend wants to try dbd so you take them into a public game and guide them, if the killer isn’t nice and wants to win then they will tunnel that person and if most killers are tunneling then it sort of puts off that person from the game because they just feel like they can’t do anything because they are constantly getting chased and they don’t have the experience to either 1. Get into a position for a good chase after getting unhooked (or get chased in an unfavorable spot) or 2. They don’t have the experience required to defend someone who is being tunneled so they can’t slow the killer down then that person dies and then it’s a 3v1.
From a new players perspective it’s very frustrating because it feels like there is nothing you can do.
For the record I am not the new player in question but I’ve had my fair share of friends try dbd and they feel like they can’t do anything in most situations like this.
I brought couple of friends to play dbd and this was their experience, haven’t seen them in dbd since
This is the reason dbds numbers have been going down significantly. There is a massive disparity in the hours and experience of players. New players and especially survivors have no in game way to actually improve quickly because the game provides no resources to them. On top of the grind being incredible and there being 50 characters they need to unlock and level up, them being punished for being weak in their games, and not knowing how to improve, new players rarely stay playing dead by daylight.
Truue. Im a killer main, but I recently got some friends thanks to dbd and the only way we can play together is swf. We're not sweaty and use fun builds, I mean mean fun builds not bully builds. Like we went to play adept gang. We even memed an adept David and having a medkit to confuse the people and go for Murky Reagents. My friend who's the more experienced survivor(survivor main), got to get his adept. I told him this was my only shot, im terrible and I cant loop, no way Im getting a David adept. He decided to help me and along with another friend to give me it. Brought me to the Game where he loops great and told me to stay outta actions and do gens. But Onryo decided to tunnel me. I got 2 hooks real fast. When they unhooked me, they just told me to hide. It was my first time being a useless lil shit hiding in a locker while the others do gens and take the heat.
Somehow I actually got the adept and screenshoted that bitch to commemorate it. But damn was I tunneled to hell. Especially because I was the weakest link on the planet. A No Mither survivor who cant loop a killer
I got a good chuckle when Otz brought up the 'Mr Nice Guy' build, because that was what I used to run a while back without realizing there was a name behind it. I still use MYC to this day because I like the idea of rewarding a killer for leaving the hook and focusing gens for a few seconds while survivors make a rescue (at their own peril).
I only use that on Hag. My Hag build is Agitation, Monstrous Shrine, Make Your Choice. Along with a rando perk.
Granted to everyones luck, im new at Hag. So I cant utilize the build as optimal as I could. But I love the idea of hooking someone, trap, Monstrous Shrine and MYC activates. Down the unhooker, rinse and repeat
Idk I just hate tunneling because it actively robs the opposition of having fun and playing. Tbh I'm not here to be sweaty, just to have a good, fun time
A good way to solve this problem would be to make so the time take it takes to complete a gen is based on the amount of survivors still alive. the more survs alive, the longer it takes to complete a gen, and the fewer survs alive, the shorter it takes to complete a gen.
Like this, the killer has less of an insentive to get 1 person out of the game as fast as they can and instead, they are rewarded for getting hook stages before killing someone!
As killing someone early will make gens be completed faster, keeping them alive while getting everyone dead on hook before killing them one by one :D
Thanks for the video! I've been tunneled to the point where I'm losing interest in the game. I always try to stay until the last hook to give people time to do gens, but I feel myself getting more frustrated and having less fun. I understand at 1/2 gens, but it's been at 5 gens.
if a survivor isn't tunneled out ASAP, it's usually an auto-win for the survivors.
Pretty much anything that ruins the tempo of the match is bad for the game. It's not fun having to wait for a game to end because you got tunnelled first and have to wait for your friends to end their match, let alone the fact that if you got tunnelled it meant you had almost no play time yourself.
@@strygwyn9584 That’s not true. You can tunnel at 2-3 gens and still win depending on your skill.
I don't tunnel often (just personal preference) but when I do at the right time it turns lost games into winning or even games because of the altruism of other survivors.
I literally had a trapper game in coldwind where i was endgame at 0 kills, 2 hooks. I got a survivor, hooked them, put 2 traps. They didnt even bother to look at the ground because they were focused on rescuing. I got 2 survivors and the last one escaped. A 0k turned into a 3k because of altruism
@@MrcreeperDXD777 I salute you, my fellow Trapper main.
I find faking tunneling to work pretty well for getting free hits if you're behind in a game because the other 3 survivor friends just appear out of thin air 90% of the time to all take hits and let you down them instead, just try and get two quick hooks on one then use them as bait to bring the others out without actually going for the kill on them.
@@vradarx oh yeah, the "I'm gonna tunnel you should all get off gens and come get injured real quick" tactic is fun for sure.
This video literally pops up as I’ve only been tunnelled or slugged for the last few days, to be exact as I was slugged on the floor on my first down of the game after Blight has just tunnelled 2 survivors out of the game.
In my experience, now that every single game is against co-ordinated groups thanks to the HUD update, playing in an unfun way definitely feels more necessary to stand a chance.
You can't prevent people from playing co-op swf in this game, it's one of the only reasons this game is still alive
Instead of complaining about swf for the 100th time
Maybe realize that buffing solo q is the only way to help swf with the new HUD
Because if solo q is more appealing more people will play it and then the devs can balance the game around that because it's the majority of players
@@potato1674 I never complained about SWF. Where did you see the letters "SWF" in my original post?
All I did was state the facts of:
- Regardless of who you face, it doesn't matter. The HUD update has made it so survivors are co-ordinated every game.
- At the end of the day, if survivors are co-ordinated, your experience as killer is going to be much more difficult and lead to more unfun playstyles.
And yes, it may be better for balance in the long term. The devs have now bridged the gap between soloq and SWF, so balancing survivor as a role to killer should be easier to do. (When did I say otherwise in my original post?)
However, in the short term, it sure has made the killer experience miserable.
Seems to me like you made some assumptions and jumped to conclusions.
@@JS-my4jw Chad answer. Fr
It's actually really funny to see, that the majority of people here didn't really understand the video at all. It's not the tunneling that BHVR needs to adress first, it's the fact, that DbD is (once again, almost as always) heavily survivor sided and killers struggle with all 4 survivors being alive.
So, of course, they take one out to make it an even playing ground.
Once again, BEFORE tunneling gets any attention, the devs really NEED to look into WHY killers tunnel and change that. Gen times are a complete guessing game (could take forever or be done in 2 minutes thanks to perks and toolboxes). Healing is far too quick and easy nowadays, it's ridiculous. Second/third chance perks need to go or be heavily nerfed.
After all that, if tunneling still is a thing (which it won't be, I guarantee it), it can be tackled.
It all comes down to whether or not you're given normal survivors or "esports god parties"
If you play nice and don’t tunnel you will loose 90% of your games and the survivors will teabag you. Toxic survivors make killers regret being nice so in turn the killer will start playing sweaty, ruining the fun for nice survivors. The process goes back and forth and perpetuates itself.
What is loosing as a killer? If you have fun chases thats a win. People focus too much on made up win conditions and then claim tunneling would be necessary
@@lfr234 made up win conditions....by the game devs...delusional survivor main
@@lfr234 what they mean is 4 kills.
@@lfr234 survs have the same problem though, loop a killer for 3 gens and he tunnels you kills you inevitably but surv mad he didn't make it out.
@@lfr234 really, so not getting at least one kill is satisfying? Why play killer at that point, why use your powers if you don't care about kills? I try to play fair, use different perks, and what happens? I get t bagged after the gens were done so quickly, with no kills. There is no reason for me to play fair, tunneling guarantees me at least one kill
I maintain that Decisive strike being nerfed to the ground is the biggest reason for the increase. You've said it yourself Otz, 3 seconds is not enough time to get any meaningful distance from the killer
If we can get back old pop or ruin I'll be fine trading in a ds
Really depends, if you can get yourself to go down in a strong place for survivor it'll waste a ton of time from the killer
Most of the time, you can't even reach the next loop/pallet with some of the high mobility killers in this game.
That Artist ---> Doctor gameplay transition was so nice
I adopted a soft tunneling method after watching one of your videos. I call it juggle tunneling. I focus on two survivors at the start. Hook one, then the second, then back to the first, etc. I get them to death hook as quick as possible. They’re my insurance. If they’re both on death hook but I’m still at four or five gens, I chase someone else. As soon as I hit three gens, one of them needs to go. Two gens, they both go. At that point the game is won. It’s not 100% full proof. If my two targets hide well before we get to three gens, I’m screwed. Overall, it’s a nice strat though. I’d say it’s effective 4/5 times.
This video spoke to me... Otz, honestly, I was literally the Mr. Nice guy player. I loved BBQ and Chili, farmed points, played for fun. Now, it's just so much harder to not tunnel. You literally get rewarded for doing it versus before.
Pretty baffling that there's zero mention of DS being gutted and how it also synergized with other important perks like Unbreakable and DH. OTR overrides both BT and DH instead of synergizing with them, which also guts Unbreakable. DS is the glue that held the rest of the anti-tunnel perks together, and most killers aren't afraid of it anymore, with good reason.
Furthermore, in the past, if you tunneled early, you risked the hatch spawning and everybody else just disappearing early from a key. Bringing a key was an invitation to be tunneled to prevent that, or you slugged to stop it entirely, but tunneling was risky.
Additionally, the change from rank matchmaking to using grades. You needed to play for emblems to maintain your rank, which, especially for streamers, was a badge of pride. A 2K where you pipped at Iri was a good result. 4k-ing at 5 hooks all the time would quickly lead to dropping in grades. But now? The prevailing attitude is that regardless of emblems, nothing matters except a 3/4k, present company included.
It's also crazy to me to say that camping has decreased. The current gen kick meta is to just sit in a small area around the hook like a fucking toad. I see that constantly.
I think a cool idea would be if you are hooked multiple times in a row the timer is reduced for entity progression.
This would be so delightful, at least being tunnelled wouldn't feel like such piss
They need to create a new game mode
They need to add more adjectives to survivor
@@brandonsparkman8438 more verbs aswell i feel like they're missing some
@@youtubeuser84848 maybe some nouns even, they don’t get enough love in the game as it is
Nerfing DS, BBQ & Chili and Thanataphobia is the main reason tunneling increased.
Old DS put the fear of God in Killers. Before the big perk change, I almost never encountered intentional tunneling because Killers were not trying to get hit with a 5 second stun (even though I myself did not run DS).
While I do agree with BHVR deactivating it in endgame, DS should have kept the 5 seconds.
BBQ & Chili and Thanataphobia actively rewarded the Killer for going after different targets. BBQ gave them extra bloodpoints for unique targets while Thanataphobia rewarded Killers with 5% slowdown for each injured, downed and hooked Survivor for up to 20%.
Killing these perks the way they did is why we have more problems.
lmao i believe you the fear of god part. One time I survived until last on a Coldwind map vs a Knight. This Knight downed me and slugged me for a while and Im just down and thinking why. Later he hooked me and killed me and saw my stupid ass build and apologized and said he thought I had DS (for the record no, I dont have a lot of survivors, especially a lot of licenced ones)
Same thing happened with a streamer that was 3 days ago (heck i can even show you), a Wesker thought I had DH, that perk also put fear of god in people. I laughed about that while my perks ended up being Blood Pact, Self Aware, Kindred and Left Behind. He even had to read wth does Blood Pact do.
If I was any better at looping I couldve abused the fear of DH
thanatofobia was cancer as hell, i have nightmares of thanato + pentimento combo
Tunneling deserves to be a viable strategy imo and survivors simply need to be given the tools to counter it and killers simply need incentives not to tunnel.
For Killers, introduce perks and strategies that reward first hooking survivors or not hooking the same survivor twice in a row.
For Survivors, Nerf the self heal on CoH to 35% so it's more in line with Self-Care. It doesn't make sense that a single perk gives a 200% faster Self Care to 4 survivors. It should be equal to Self Care at 45 seconds. Doing so will make it more punishing for survivors to get away with hook saves without trading or wasting time.
"Aggressive camping has gone down" I absolutely agree with you 100%, but when knight dropped I noticed a massive spike in knight players camping. Ignoring The Knight, I agree.
of course theyre going to camp, his whole power revolves around guarding things, he is useless if he doesnt camp
@@joaquitox1 he isn't useless if he doesn't camp he is meant to work around loops with his guards and limit the options survivor have by placing guards in certain places. Went against a Knight that destroyed me and my team didn't camp at all but we couldn't loop at all, he allways outsmarted us but I also had to go against a Knight that only camped first guy on hook so naturally gens popped and he couldn't get more than 1 miserable kill with little to no points.
@@camilomartan746 What you are referring to is "zoning" he can shut down loops easily but he is countered by holding w which is a very boring playstyle and if you want to zone people just play artist
In the past, you get punished by 2-3 people working on gens fast if you tunnel. But now, if you see a three man eruption, there’s not even a reason to harass the survivors because they can’t do anything.
I think it’s weird when someone tunnels so hard, like where’s the fun? I literally had a killer hook me first and stood at the hook the entire time until I died. Survivors tried but he didn’t budge. Like wtf?
Where is the fun in playing fair, getting zero kills, and getting t bagged by everyone in the exit?
It sucks that in a good chunk of my matches lately, I get killers who tunnel directly off of unhook. They could be on the other side of the map and engaged in a chase with another survivor they managed to injure but as soon as that unhook notification pops for them, they come right back and tunnel me or one of my other teammates out.
Camping might be rare in some games, but I notice proxy-camping is more prominent (which, I agree can be a good strategy to pull in certain cases) but it goes hand-in hand with the players that choose to actively tunnel someone out. To a degree I understand why a killer would do so. Sometimes other survivors are in the area, but in my games I also see the killer never actually leave the perimeter of the hook area either. So I, or someone else gets proxy-camped into second phase or nearly into second phase and when the team comes in for the save, it's either force a hook trade or the savior gets slugged while the unhooked person who was stuck until second phase gets tunneled out of the game at 5-4 gens. I also noticed if I'm going for a rescue (which, I run a healer build and I never go for insta-saves) and wait until the killer leaves and unhook someone, I stay behind so the unhooked person doesn't get tunneled and the killer 90% of the time will bypass me, search for and tunnel the person I just saved. And I know the killer saw me waiting for them too. Those same players love to claim "I don't wanna tunnel, but if I don't see the unhooker, I'll just follow the unhooked." Or "I can never find anyone." But...they either A.) Never left the hook area within the entire duration of first hook phase so they didn't bother actuslly going to find someone or B.) Break their current chase on the far side of the map to come back and tunnel.
(Also being tunneled out for a teammate who goes for an insta-save is frustrating but the blame goes on the teammate for doing so. And I know survivors can make a lot of bad/risky plays sometimes so factoring in those types of teammates with players who tunnel is always a pain lol)
A lot of players like to say "Don't unhook in front of the killer or else it's free reign" and that's completely fair, however I never see anyone talk about some of the killers that just never leave the area to actually go and find another survivor if they don't see anyone in the perimeter. Even if there's nobody in the area and everyone is spread out on gens. (Let's not mention the cases where other teammates try to throw themselves in front of the killer to "take aggro" so killer stops tunneling but the player ignores the other teammates to tunnel out the hooked person anyway)
Decisive Strike doesn't do enough, and players still get tunneled with Off the Record on. If I have to run DS, I usually have to run Yoichi's perk with it, which is a gamble because if the tunneler in question is dedicated, they will still find and tunnel you out, they can slug you and you get no value from either perks, or best case scenario, you actually escape the chase.
I've also heard the "Don't bodyblock with your BT or else it's an invitation to tunnel", and those same players will slap me directly off hook after I'm saved and then continue to tunnel me out. Can't bodyblock if I'm still stuck standing there for a moment after being unhooked, unable to move.
I know not all killer players play how I've described above, in fact I've run into plenty of great killer players, fun, chill and sometimes very challenging ones as well but playing survivor for the last few months has been completely unfun. Not to mention all the BMing I see as well. I didn't even run into the camping and tunneling issues as much until the 6.0 patch and Wesker's release. While it is a problem with the game itself and there should be better incentives implemented to prevent hard tunneling (especially at 5-4 gens) and maybe just a gameplay shakeup in general like new games modes or different objectives, the other half of it feels like players tunneling vindictively. (Because I've also encountered a lot of BMing on hook alongside the tunneling and it's usually just for trying to loop as long as I can. I don't even run flashlights or BNPs if I bring a toolbox. Usually just a medkit for when I break chase).
Tunneling will NEVER be removed by DBD. As long as someone has the free will to do it, it will happen. No one can get rid of it no matter how Hellbound everyone is at doing so. The only way to truly stop it is to not play at all.
If your all having a problem with Tunneling, then either go to the next match or stop playing. Because it's NEVER going to leave, it will be in DBD forever.
Part of the problem is that so many new killers inadvertently benefit from tunneling. Condemned Sadako rewards you for not leaving a survivor who is condemned alone. Wesker’s infection basically means that a survivor who has infection off the hook is on a literal timer for when they will lose chase because once the bar hits full,they are effectively both exposed and permanently affected by the clown bottle effect, making them an easy target (and if they do have time to spray, the killer gets notified of their location). Knight can multitask while tunneling by using guards or even simply put extra pressure on a survivor fresh off the hook with the use of a guard. These oversights in killer design promote tunneling further whilst making it harder to counter, and that isn’t mentioning how a meta focused on gen speeds can effectively remove the punishment for tunneling that comes in the form of objective progress.
you can argue this for every killer. old killer promoted tunneling as well. Nurse has 4vs1 slowdown but is incredibly effective at tunneling survivor out of the game as perks like decisive strike offer no distance gain vs ability. With her uncontested 1vs1 ability, why wouldn't nurse tunnel?. Blight promotes tunneling because you gain no distance vs him when using decisive strike and he also has incredible 1vs1 to tunnel off hook. He also has Alchemist ring which reset his power when hitting base-kit BT. top killer promote tunneling as much as every other killer design.
@@dodang_9147 I mean, yeah, Nurse and Alch Ring Blight are two of the best killers in the game at tunneling, yes. I don’t know why you’re saying this as if it’s news or somehow a counter to what I said. The reality is that many of the killers they’ve added can excel at tunneling to varying degrees, and the higher percentage of killers in the roster have easy access to tunneling, the more killers will do so.
@@twosoup3252 your post makes it sound like new killer are at fault for tunneling rather then strategy itself being effective.
@@dodang_9147 how? My post just says that certain design elements in killer powers causes tunneling to be even more effective, thus making it even worse of a problem
your first sentence is that many new killers inadvertently benefit from tunneling. key word new killer. you go on to blame new killers like sadako(which by the way incentive hit & run and spreading condemn) and Wesker(Who also gains reduced cooldown for having many survivors infected) as mechanics to incentive tunneling. Those killers are not tunneling due relationship the power, they're tunneling because its best strategy to win across all killers. that has been true for long time.
About time more streamers with large audiences are talking about this. Saying the quiet part out loud. Late to be touching on this but better late than never.
Almost like the main objective needs to REWARD killers more than tunneling for NOT tunneling rather than just trying to punish them for playing efficiently..
I've been saying this for years and it's crazy how only now people are starting to realize this truth
Yeah it’s like the game should reward killers for multiple chases/hooks rather than kills.
I wonder if two streamers had a debate about this already and now the one who wanted to balance for kills is making a video about tunneling in a kill focus meta
I still think that the easiest way to solve this issue is to punish tunneling harder.
It needs to become entirely unattractive for the majority of player, no matter why they do it.
They do it to get more BP? Penalize tunneling by transferring BP from the killer to the survivor if they're being tunneled
They do it to win? Speed up gens if a survivor is hooked multiple times in a row within a short amount of time.
They do it because they enjoy ruining other people's fun? Ban the player, people like that have no place in a community.
It's called:
Most
Efficient
Tactic(s)
Available
for a reason
I usually only hard-tunnel when survivors try to take hits immediately after getting unhooked. In my mind it's like "oh? you wanna take hits? why, take as many as you like😈"
I know I should be intimidated but like I'll take all the hits you want 🥰
I live by the words "Deliberately going out of your way to bodyblock after being unhooked is an open invitation to tunnel"
I do this now for like a month or about. I dont hard tunnel, but if survivor getting unhooked begins to body block for their teammate, who unhooked him he gets downed instead of his unhooking teammate. And when i told him after game due to his complains that i tunneled him, that devs made burrowed time for everyone for free so that you DONT get tunneled and could GTFO of killer's sight, he answered: don't fucking teach me how to use my skills and play the game. And i have to notice, i used to play nice when i began to stream and forcing me almost-new youtube channel (like 5-6 months ago). I was letting 1-4 survivors alive every game intentionally (thru gates or hatch, just let em go). Month ago i stopped doing this, because like 60-80% of time instead of "thank you" i recieved tbagging and trashtalking in end game chat. Complete disrespect by survivors of killers leading to toxic killers who full camp and tunnel no matter what. And that leading to more toxic survs. Never ending cycle. I'm still trying to be nice guy, not tunneling. But if i see survs playing toxic way, or body blocking people after being unhooked, then they shouldn't expect me to leave them after this and still going for someone else, but not them. This is just unlogical and stupid. This is just so fucking sad really...
I don't know why they don't just make it so you lose collision with the killer if you only have the basekit endurance after being unhooked.
Keeping collision for perks like BT or OTR is fine, that could be classed as perk value, but the basekit mechanic shouldn't allow for bodyblocks
@@Jack0f4lltrades Yup. Two games in a row I mercilessly annihilated with Huntress, playing as optimally as possible. I gave hatch twice, each time getting called a tunneller *by the person i gave hatch to.*
I have never given hatch since. Well, one time since my snoot had been booped so i kind of didn't have a choice . . . but aside from that one time: no mercy.
I legit got tunneled out of the game cuz ONE gen popped,i have no idea what i did to that man to make him so angry 😭
What makes you think the killer was angry? Maybe just wanted to get one player out to have a better time playing
I tunnel now that survivors got the biggest buff ever. The hud
Tunneling =/= means you're angry.
@@KehiNui he keeped hitting me on hook like bro,i never tbag or do emotes
its a killer thing its easier for killers and alot less stress when vsing 3 not not 4 so some tunnel out the first they see so that its not as stressful
I have never had a harder time with survivor and an easier time with killer since I started playing dbd lol. With the addition of the survivor buff with seeing what other people are doing I’m only realizing how little everyone does. My issue is I can’t climb the mmr and I’m stuck at low-mid mmr. Im better than the survivors I play with but am still not good enough to run the killer the entire game and escape when no one’s getting me off hook. On the rare chance someone does I just get tumbled. It’s the same every game, killer gets a down, I flashy save, then the killer comes after me and I get left on first hook. The only way I can escape is to play selfishly and not help my team but that’s what they’re doing to me and I don’t want to perpetuate that cycle. So I die just as many or more times than I escape. I played all night last night and didn’t get tunnled or left on hook TWICE. I’m excluding the several games where the killer was afk which I’m seeing a lot more of as well. Several of these games I have ran the killer for 4 or five gens and still no one gets me. I recorded almost all of them that night and watched them back to make sure I’m not just terrible and there was literally only ONE game where someone else took a hit for me when they saw me being tunnled. I added them and chatted for a while and they’re explaining the same thing I am. It’s play a play style I hate and eventually get better teammates or be stuck. Anyway if you read all this thanks for hearing me complain.
you being low mmr explains it
That transition at 2:27 was amazing
Whenever Mikaela was downed at the exit gate I noticed the goods were bleeped over, beautiful editing.
But Otz. You wanted this! Killers who tunnel do so because it’s the fastest way to get kills in the game (almost fast enough to counter gen speeds). You said yourself a long time ago that the game should be balance for kills. Now reap what you have sown.
I maintain that the killer shack is a shining beacon of hope for any survivor.
Assuming some idiot teammate hasn’t already used the god pallet at 4-5 Gens left.
@@ragnabolt683 as a clown main, they always do bro, sorry to say. Prolly more specific to clown because it dominates shack but yea, they insta drop against me every single game.
@@Jasen1337 I refuse to use the god pallet at 4-5 Gens. I’d rather go down tbh.
@@ragnabolt683 I can sometimes run the killer without god pallet. But as I rank up that becomes more rare. Bringing any means necessary can help when people waste it/use it.
Honestly, the thing I hate most about tunneling and camping is that I, as a survivor, lose pips and BP for something that I really can't control, especially in Solo Que. I don't get to play the game. Personally, I think that can be fixed by simply rewarding the survivor for being tunneled or camped out of the game. Just give em 1 or 2 pips for it; that way they get compensated for it on the back end.
Now when I say Tunnel, I mean Survivor gets hooked, gets SAFELY unhooked, then gets ran down; rinse and repeat 2 more times. I don't mean Survivor gets hooked, gets unhooked right in front of the killer and gets ran down cause he's injured. That's the teammates fault, not the killers. Same with camping. I mean Survivor gets hooked the first time and the killer just hangs out for second stage or death.
Id' like to think that would be BHVR's way of saying "sorry, we suck at balancing our game, here's a some extra BP because you probably got tunneled or camped a couple of times" or something like that.
As someone who doesn’t play, this has got to be the weirdest, most backwards thing I’ve seen a community have an issue with. You have a game where the idea is ruthless psychopaths are stalking people to kill them and prevent them from escaping, and then say it’s a problem when they…. Ruthlessly stalk you to prevent you from escaping. What? This is like playing TDM and saying it’s not fair someone on the other team keeps killing you. It’s like playing healer and saying to the other team “hey, you gotta stop killing me, I can’t heal my team” like…. Yeah. That’s the point. It’s how you win.
cant wait for this meta to hit dbd with all the newer killers watching this video thanks otz!