The backstory of Baum's mother in law is fascinating considering in the book Fiyero, Elphaba's lover, is meant to be ambiguously indigenous, and later on she goes on to live with his wife and sisters in law in the mountains.
My friends from college and I made a date to see Wicked when it came to LA. Prior to that my mother bought me the book knowing I was going to see the musical. I had always been a fan of The Wizard of Oz, as well as a bullied outsider growing up, and in reading that book I identified very much with Elphaba. On serveral occasions while reading I broke down in tears. Big, ugly heaving sobs. It affected me so much I cry just thinking about it. When I saw the musical I was *pissed.* It was my best friend, who had also read the book, who soothed my anger by noting that she felt we had seen the same story from three different perspectives. The original is Dorothy's perspective, as a child who doesn't understand the political machinations she's being subjected to. The book is Elphaba's perspective, as the outsider who sees these machinations. The musical is Glinda's perspective, and all she sees is her friend.
I really appreciate Maguire as an author - he gave a wonderful lecture at my university which I got to attend as part of a Wizard of Oz-focused class I was in. I cried listening to him talk about what the process of creating Wicked’s musical adaptation was like!
I read the book back in my teens and Elphaba's struggle and failure to make real change in the world is so relatable now in my 20s. She wants to help the Animals, overthrow the Wizard but didn't want to kill innocents, and finally she just gives up and lives in the mountains with her flying monkeys. She's never evil but an idealist turned cynic. Also, the main religions of the books are worship of an "unnamable god" and the "Ozmists" who follow an older pagan deity who they believe will return someday. In the background, the monotheists and pagans wage a war in the style of the Irish troubles while the Animals are dehumanized, stuffed in ghettoes and basically become an allegory for Jews, black people, Irish, Palestinians, and any oppressed minority you can name
The quote from LFB’s mother-in-law near the end of her life is basically “Defying Gravity” 😅 It’s also very much in the pattern of Elphaba’s speech (in the musical at least)!
You touch on it a little in the video, but the Finnish production is actually really interesting when it comes to the themes of populism/fascism. From the photos I've seen and things I've read, that production ratcheted up the authoritarian feel of Oz by doing things like having characters "disappeared" off stage by Oz soldiers and never seen again, designing the Wizard's lair with a lot of eye theming (Big Brother is watching you and all that) and costuming the Wizard to look like Joseph Stalin
yup, I can't wait to watch. The thing that truly grabbed my perspective was listening to Defying Gravity, I never seen Wicked but heard the song in Glee, and re-listened to the Wicked version to prepare for the movie coming out, and those lyrics are too powerful not to mean something much bigger, so I went down a rabbit-hole
I read some where that Wicked, especially the novel, is an allegory to WW2. Once I learned that, Elphaba being played by a Jewish woman or a lady from another marginalized group makes sense
@@phoenixfritzinger9185 it’d be interesting if the film makes Elphie, Galinda, and Fiyero a throuple. I feel they are the only two people that truly loved her.
Oooh, fascinating your analysis about Elphaba leaving Oz, since, in hindsight, she's probably the one character who has traveled all over the country. She was born in Munchkinland, lived her childhood in Squadling Country, went to college / lived her first years of adulthood in the north (Gillikin and the Emerald City), and then spent her last years in the West.
yeah the insane mindless consumerism the upcoming film had spawned is definitely something elphaba would not agree with lol, but i’ve seen the director talk about how they’ve picked up a lot of elements from the book to accomodate the extended runtime so hopefully it taps more into the political side of the story. great video btw!
It would be incredibly timely if they did touch on some of the current political issues facing this country...I wasn't sure about Ariana Grande for Glinda, but recent clips of her portrayal make me SOOO excited for this movie.
Knowing that L.Frank Baum's extened family was into bits of occultism makes so much sense. Having Santa being raised by a lioness and a wood nymph. In a forest of immortals along with pretty much the Horned King is starting to connect a few dots 😅😂 (please read The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus)
I think those political tones in the story may have lost their specificity (I certainly didn’t think of Clinton or Bush when I first saw Wicked) but they haven’t lost their heft. I wish that it weren’t true but the concept of “you celebrate a unique person as long as it benefits you, and then publicly demonize their outward traits as soon as they disagree with you” is not only still relevant but increasingly so as modern day media and politics use it more and more shamelessly. If anything, it’s made Wicked slightly less subtle over time just by merit of how aware we all are of it now.
I grew up fascinated with 1938 movie, acquired a second-hand copy of Aljean Hermetz' book in the 80's and read it so many times I am surprised it hasn't fallen apart. I also bought and read a number of "inspired by" Oz books (Notably "Was" by Geoff Ryman and "A Barnstormer of Oz" by Philip José Farmer), so of course I bought a hardcover copy of "Wicked" as soon as it was published and the cast album, T-Shirt, and baseball cap as soon as they were available. (The hat remains my bad hair day go-to.) When the show finally opened in Chicago, I was thrilled to finally see the Act II scene with Nessa and Boq, but what struck ME most about finally seeing the ending was how cynical it was. I didn't see Elphaba's survival and escape as uplifting but as depressing. It told me was that "Popular" was the moral of the entire show -- idealism and good intentions are fine, but they are not enough. They must be tempered to appeal to the masses. You MUST be popular first. BTW, I suspect it is due to our relative ages, but you (and most folks) missed a very prominent reference to Ronald Reagan in the bridge of "Popular". Sure, "the Teflon President" was was used by his flummoxed critics, but his supporters in the media dubbed him "The Great Communicator"!
Okay, wild recommendation, but there's a webcomic called "Yellow Brick Ramble" I've been spreading the gospel on - redoing "Land Of Oz" as a more explicit, jazzy, transgender romance. It's amazing. My sister GOES by Ozma since she transitioned. It's a meaningful name, anyway, the second half of the name is from Maud Gage. Baum was a hopeless lovebird. But yeah, the trans community, she means a lot. A cartoonist friend wants to call her memoir "But You're Different."
Your presentation and narration are excellent! I really appreciated your section on Baum's mother-in-law. And that cast member saying, "They are making these {Wicked} films to win Oscars" is right on and tells us exactly what we can expect. It also tells us exactly why "WICKED" was divided into two films. It's a cash grab and Oscar bait, pure and simple. The business of Hollyweird. Hopefully, the films will be good and worthy "Oscar bait." If they disappoint, there's still the timelessness and sincerity of Judy Garland in MGM's 1939 "THE WIZARD OF OZ", which I prefer, anyway.
This was a wonderful video and I learned quite a bit so thank you for that. I really enjoyed learning about the author's mother in law that was quite fascinating. It is quite interesting that OZ was/should be a matriarchy when that wasn't a common view in children (or any really) media at that time. And yes I hope the film does dive a little deeper into darker elements of the book. I'm glad you included the original end of the show with Dr. Dillimond as since I first heard it I really enjoyed it. And yes I agree the NY ending works better for the relationship between Elphie and Glinda, but I would like Dr. Dillimond's plot point to be resolved somehow. And I know the film is already made, but now I kind of want that ending scene rewritten and added into part 2. I would say between Glinda telling the wizard off and the finale, she ends up finding Dr. Dillimond and tries to get him to remember her and say her name, now not caring that he can't pronounce it as "Ga"linda like she did during her school days. I think it would just be a more impactful moment when in the show her name change can be seen s a "joke", but this way there would be a sweet, important point. Plus then we would see, even if it's no public yet, Glinda is trying to carry on her best friend's work as she was asked and is also trying to be "Glinda The Good" for real. That is just my view on what I wish could be added. Keep up the great work and I hope once the movie comes out we'll hear from you again. And what are any of your hopes for the movie? Again wonderful job :)
I was already excited for the films' interpretation, but with your tour of its history, background and political themes, I am even more intrigued and will go into my next viewing with a greater appreciation of it. Fantastic job with the documentary.
I always thought that the other Oz books showed how much dorothy and glinda were really hard on other folks in the realm, and their hoarding of magic. Wicked seemed just what i wanted as an adult prequel.
yeah I agree. The witch who was enlisted to hide Ozma BY THE WIZARD ended up being punished, forbidden to use magic, Glinda putting a forget spell on her and stealing her magic books. That was horrible. Then in a later book, the Wizard returned and that story retconned to make him look innocent and Ozma and Glinda actually teaching him real magic. I was appalled
I devoured this video essay! So so good! From a European point of view, to me the politics are what makes Wicked stand apart from the other more "commercial" musicals. As smooth as they are compared to the book, there's still enough lines and plot points that it's still very present and clear what Wicked stands for and what it's commenting on. I also hate that the story gets more relevant every passing year, how ironic indeed that the long awaited movie version will get released just after an important election, but I guess it wouldn't be Oz if it didn't have its pulse on where the USA are now.
I fell in love with Wicked, the novel, and read the sequels, Son of a Witch and A Lion of a Man. I was really put off of the musical as they changed and left out so much of the political intent. It sounds like the films are attempting to marry the musical back to its source. I hope it won't be a case of attempting to please everyone but pleasing none.
I feel the same way, and I wish the sequel books got more attention in general, because they're so interesting. I love how he plays around with timelines and elements from the original books.
I need to try reading them again, I was too young when I tried the first time... I got to the part where baby Elphaba ate a person's finger and it made me immediately close the book 😂
Oz being inspired by Edison feels so accurate, not just in the conman of it all but in that he generally got away with it because he was on the right side of history, until he wasn't.
Oh, you came so close to actually mentioning Finland's platantly Stalin inspired depiction of the Wizard but swerved right around it. A really interesting video! Wicked (the Finnish production) was the of the first musicals to really make me into a musical fan and I have also seen it in London and the Hague (the British and the Dutch productions), as well as read the original book at one point. And the comments about the story being more relevant than ever with populism on the rise are quite chilling.
first time watching one of your videos. It is not often on You Tube that an influencer can astonish me with an intelligent, thoughtful, accurate, truthful, and thought provoking persuasion. Bravissimo! I am excited most to see how the movie will interpret the love story between Fieryo and Elphaba. When Elphie finally lets go of her inhibitions and finds her truth to love herself embracing her imperfections and uniqueness, she gains the courage to love Fieryo on a level few will ever experience in this lifetime. I hear Mamma RU in my head, "Don't F*ck it up!"
Fantastic work as always, man. I can't believe how much this channel has grown, but its all down to your passion for the subject matter and your commitment to a fair and accurate view of history. Your perspective is so appreciated. Also, where can I get merch for LFB's MIL cause I think I would die for her
Thank you for this Video! It is SO important to dig deep into the material, because Wicked is such a great story for the times we live in in reality. It is way more than just a story about friendship, or for good merchandise. I am afraid people will overlook this in all the bubbles and CGI of the movie. As much I look forward to the movie,I am also scared about the "loss" of what Wicked really means. So we cannot point this out enough.
Interestingly, Wicked was the first Broadway play that I saw on Broadway, and during that same trip to New York in 2015, my mom told me that, "a very awful man is running for president, although he has virtually no chance since he has no political experience." We had of course just walked passed Trump Tower.
Love this video! And so glad you actually have read the book. I’ve been watching a lot of Oz video essays lately by people who have just read the book summary on Wikipedia. I will need to look more into LFB’s mother in law and her works, so so interesting
thank you! i love your channel, especially since we all benefit from your research and synthesizing from all of the source material that you responsibly give credit! keep up the wonderful work.
I am really excited for the expansion of the Magic System. In the book and the musical, magic is very matter of fact and yet very untangiable. For what I saw on the trailer I am guessing they're gonna give Elpahaba time to understand and work through her magic. One thing that is very clear in the musical is how connected her powers are to her emotions, so I believe if they handle it well, that could be an amazing tool and reflection of her inner journey, I'm excited to see. On the other hand, on both, her magic comes from being a "daughter of two worlds", and I would love for the script to go deeper into that notion.
I love Wicked deeply. The show debuted when I was in high school, and I was obsessed from the first time I heard a piece of the music. But I have to be honest, I am not looking forward to the screen adaptation. Jon Chu is a great director, but the choice to split it into two movies is a red flag to me, on top of the fact that this project was in development hell for, like, 15 years. There hasn't been a single detail I've learned about this project that has given me confidence in a strong final product, but I truly do hope that I'm worried for nothing.
I'm probably the only one, but I would love to see some of the old Oz vaudeville shows get modern productions. They're kind of an odd little footnote, but I think it would be fun.
Been struggling making my own video of this nature! This is so good. I’ve been fascinated with the world of the wicked novels for some time. It’s the version of Oz that if you peel back all of the high vocabulary and descriptions and just leave the story, it’s so great what he’s done. The way I wonder about the happenings in Oz is great.
I think that Maguire spotted something that the rest of the readers/viewers of either Baum's original or the movie either chose to ignore of simply did not see. The Wizard is a con-man. He has NO magic, merely American Chutzpah and that, and that alone allows him claim and hold power, despite the fact he is in a land where Magic is real. And there is a Political analogy from even Baum's time. In the 1890s, US business people overthrew the legitimate government of Hawaii and seized power - and the US recognised the usurpers as the legitimate rulers. Again, in the 1920s and 1930s, before the making of the movie, there were various military "interventions" (aka invasions) of various Central American countries in order to support various US fruit companies. All of these were clear examples of US Imperialism in action, lead by American "Business" people (aka "Con-men"), the US, with overwhelming public support from the US population, created and maintained an overseas Empire, in every way as oppressive as the then current European empires. Maybe Baum did not see the parallel (certainly with Hawaii), but I sense that Maguire did. And then we come to the 2000s and the release of the Musical, when the Book of the Musical focuses on the "politicians" failures, it again obscures the "Con-men" then exemplified by Haliburton and the various "Contractors" committing atrocities while getting obscenely wealthy in Iraq and elsewhere - and still facing no consequences - just like the Wizard in the Original Baum creation... And then we come to 2024 where much of the US has been in Thrall to a Businessman/Con-Man for almost a decade; a Con-Man lauded by large parts of the US Media; A Con-Man who doesn't even pretend to care for much of the US population or political rules; who threatens to be a "Dictator on day one" and to throw his political opponents into camps; yet, who is still supported not only by the successors of the Overthrowers of Hawaii and Central America and Iraq, but also by modern "Con-Men" like Musk. Maguire saw this and warned us about this - but Americans just wanted a "Good Tune". It may be something too many sing in Trump's Camps....
I really, REALLY want them to give Fiyero the diamonds in his skin, though I doubt they have done that seeing the trailer. It's such a small detail that I really want them to include.
Great video! I so dearly love both the Gregory Maguire novels and the amazingly beautiful musical. I must confess, I hope they include more elements from the novel in the film version.
I know this will never happen but I would love to see Liir or a character like him in the second movie. The scenes with him and elphaba were some of my favorites.
i suppose the fact that the movie is divided in 2 parts, with a total runtime of nearly 5 hours, mean that it will bring back some of the more radical elements present in the book and softened by the musical adaptation. as you said, some of the biting commentary in the musical is less biting now that we witnessed the past 20 years in politics... and i think that means a new adaptation needs sharper teeth. also, another belief i have when it comes to the movies is that the first one will make LOTS of money, and the second will have less demand because we already had the lighter part and the more famous songs. leaves a lot of runtime for Wicked II to explore Elphaba's politics.
this was such an incredible episode, I really enjoyed watching it. so well researched and edited and I'm so grateful for any kind of content that acknowledges Maguire's book because its politics and philosophies are so fascinating and important. that being said, I desperately hope that the movie will deliver more on the queer subtext of the book, although I'm kind of pessimistic of how far they'll go while trying to appeal to a mainstream audience...
I want them to not be cowards and let Glinda and Elphaba be queer already! It’s so obviously baked into the songs and the story. That would definitely give it more weight and make it resonate more.
Women can love each other without being lesbians. It is so tiresome having our complex lives reduced to our sexuality, often for the benefit of the male gaze.
Wicked premiered when I was in Middle School/High School so while I have loved it for a long time, I hadn’t really interrogated the political aspects of it…and then I took my cousin to see it on Broadway the weekend after the 2016 election, and was a little shocked at how blatantly political it was (and how much the audience reacted to some of those lines you mentioned). I always pictured it as a much more sanitized version of the book, and while it is, it definitely has moments of commentary on the the Bush administration in particular and corrupted populism in general (and I’m sure the movie will read to some as a reaction to the Trmp admin).
Every use of the word Wicked in background sections of this video feels like in star wars the clone wars, whenever Anakin does something messed up and they take a second to pause and play the empire theme
My dad used to always tell me about how George W. was basically the wizard from Wicked. It was somewhat funny how he’s always segue into it, but was he wrong?
I'm very hopeful the rumors of more inclusion of the book are true, as it's one of my favorites. My personal gripe with the musical is how they change the origin stories of the Tin Woodman and the Scarecrow; as an Oz purist, the changes feel like a cheap copout.
I call it the Oz multiverse. The original MGM movie has its own mythology, varied again in Disney’s Return to Oz, the novel of ‘Wicked’, not to mention the hot mess that is ‘Oz the Great and Powerful’.
Now that I know Staged Right reads these comments, I have another question. You make a point that in early performances, Nessa Rose saying "I'm an unelected official! I can't harbor a fugitive!" got a big laugh. I never even processed that line as a joke. Certainly people at the two performances I went to didn't. What's the thing that made people laugh? Was Bush accused of harboring a fugitive?
I'm surprised you didn't touch on the accidental jewish coding that was made when creating the Witch in the 37 film! The long nose and green skin weren't a part of the witch's design in the book, and it instead has in common with typical antisemitic propaganda of the time. I'm thinking Maguire was very self aware of that when he wrote Wicked, and hence why the story both in the book and the musical has a strong race allegory with Elphaba's character.
I don't know what to say about your comment, but I'll add my experience with noses. A few Italian girls I knew from Catholic school in my childhood had the traditional bumpy nose that illustrators used in fable books like Strega Nona and older illustrators. I never thought of those noses as Jewish stereotypes, since they were the bumpy noses of the local people, and I was a kid, yet to learn about American culture, or much outside school and home. The girls were teased as teenagers horrifically by the richer foreign boys that attended the school for daring not to be 'perfect' to their taste, it was an issue of misogyny. To me, the cute blond teens had noses appropriate for the region, just like the aquiline and roman noses of my Spanish ancestors, fit their regions. Heck, I am married to a man with a gorgeous big nose descended from Scandinavians via northern Britain. All of these people were/are Roman Catholic. The girls probably got plastic surgery sometime in the 90s to smooth out their witch nose bump. The depiction of noses seems to be an issue across cultures, a couple of centuries ago Easter Asians were not kind in describing Europeans. Heck, even a large Mayan nose is strikingly beautiful with their geometry, and the native people of Yucatan had to live under the horrible Spanish colonial caste system for centuries, which made their noses seen as problematic.
You’re reaching here. The original conceit of witches being gnarled crones (with any number of unflattering features) was largely an invention of the early Renaissance era. It was almost wholly about stigmatizing a certain type of woman, not antisemitic sentiment. In fact, the illustrations in Maguire’s own book were directly inspired by Renaissance/Shakespearean-era engravings. If you think that’s a coincidence then I have a timeshare in Florida I’d love to sell you.
Wow, I'm so glad that first actress was too vain to play an ugly person because Margaret Hamilton IS the witch, i couldn't imagine anyone else playing that role in that film.
I liked your back ground but I can’t believe you didn’t even touch the female friendship at the center of the musical. That is what keeps me coming back. I cry listening to “for good” and thinking about the women that have come in and out of my life.
40:11 we just went and saw it last month in SF (last time we saw it was 2009 at the same venue) and we found it still quite topical and relevant. I could see Bush, and I could see Trump as well. "unelected official" and "regime change" got lots of laughs.
Amazing video! I’m curious on your thoughts on the wiz (1978) and how it might tie into this perspective? I haven’t seen the wiz yet cause it’s like 4 dollars to rent rn on every damn platform.
Just watched this, and I really like your analysis of both the book and the musical, along with the book and movie they were based on. I remembered that L. Frank Baum's Mother in Law was a suffragist, but I didn't know how far she was. I'm somewhat pessimistic about the overall prospects of it. (Yes, it's pretty clearly going to get a bunch of money. With tickets being out now, it's very clear that's a thing that's happening., but I also doubt it will succeed at the Oscars, though with the Dramas/traditional Oscar bait being separated from Musicals, I think it could do well in the Golden Globes.) I consider myself more "Middle Millenial" but my memories of 2007-2009 were such a time of both color and despair for me with this show. I admit my feelings towards it are more "How dare you make me give a shit about this part of my past I closed off many years ago by casting my favorite actor (Who I also think absolutely should not have been cast in that role if they're half as honest about bringing back book elements). The jokes went over my head, but I wasn't very political at that same time in my teenhood. My clearest memory of watching was July 4, 2007 in London, the day after a certain other popular fantasy show premiered, and I recall Glinda having to pause after a certain line in "No one mourns the wicked" (Which very much is a reference to said fantasy show) because of that day. As I said, while my feelings towards the show are more disappointment to disgust, I have such clear vivid memories of this show and it's hard to fully shed it. And while I never read past the third book of the Oz series by Baum, I remember being fascinated by it, and the way it was subtle-ly political. Even now, one of the two webcomics I read also dives deep into the story of Oz (Very much the books, not the movie), and so the story remains very clear for me in how it expresses itself and I still think of the books fondly, even if I didn't come into them until I was an adult because of Wicked.
I really enjoyed this video, but in the future if you discuss Indigenous cultures and practices, could you use more accurate terminology? The name "Iroquois" was given by settlers, the group refers to themselves (and is referred to by other Indigenous groups, including my own) as the Haudenosaunee.
@@oliviastratton2169 the difference is that the name “Iroquois” was given by a group who were actively colonizing and trying to wipe out the Haudenosaunee people. Settlers did everything in their power to wipe out Indigenous cultures, including removing traditional names, and using the original ones help bring those cultures back and shows respect. I’m sure if the name German (which also makes more logical sense as it’s the English name for the country) was assigned against their will by a group who was trying to actively destroy everything about them, Germany would have a problem with it being used as well.
this was a really interesting and excellent researched video. one thing i think it's a little irresponsible not to note though when speaking about baum and his connection to his MIL and her inspiration by indigenous communities, is that baum believed in the complete extermination of indigenous people in america, a hardline racist opinion that was no by no means the standard belief of the time.
Hi there. I’m very well aware of LFB’s disturbing op-Eds which were published through his newspaper, but determined I could not include them without completely changing the scope of the video. It is not a subject to be mentioned in passing. As you will hear, I have cited both the American Oz doc and Finding Oz biography which covers his genocidal sentiments (without sentiment) to address the more ambivalent aspects of LFB. I especially appreciated Sally Roesch Wagner’s dismissal of an ‘either or’ perspective on his horrifying writings and viewing it as a ‘both and’ situation. After 22 episodes on this channel, I have learned through trial and error (and continue to learn) that I cannot always include everything that I find in my research. This sometimes frustrates people who are upset that I don’t mention certain details. But I can assure you, even as a humble TH-camr, I do try to take responsibility for what I put out there. I do hope that people will watch the documentary or read Evan Schwartz’s book and learn that this writer of a great classic was really just a human being, flaws and all. Thanks for watching. X
I give you credit for being generous enough to actually want to see the movie but I also find it ironic that musical theatre fans are who’re keeping the crappy-Broadway-to-Hollywood-adaptation-for-the-sake-of-money-and-awards machine alive. I’d washed my hands of big screen adaptations of musicals a long time ago and the casting choices in this one are just unforgivable
As you will see in the comments, there are a number of people who do not share the enthusiasm of the fans... or the "professional influencer fans". For me, 'Wicked' was a formative musical from my teens and while there are still moments I look forward to (I'm seeing it in Toronto next week) there are are parts that... do not hold up. That being said... someone else pointed this out online... it is nice to see people excited about something they love. It's a terrible slog of a time for countless people around the world right now and I hope we can allow some relief and joy, even for a silly movie... er, movies. Thanks for watching. X
The backstory of Baum's mother in law is fascinating considering in the book Fiyero, Elphaba's lover, is meant to be ambiguously indigenous, and later on she goes on to live with his wife and sisters in law in the mountains.
Isn’t Fiyero described as black?
@@tigercomet23 Certainly a POC. Gregory Maguire told me he originally conceived him resembling someone of South Asian descent.
say more
@@tigercomet23 His skin is described as ochre. I've always imagined him and his family as like a Mughal dynasty.
My friends from college and I made a date to see Wicked when it came to LA. Prior to that my mother bought me the book knowing I was going to see the musical.
I had always been a fan of The Wizard of Oz, as well as a bullied outsider growing up, and in reading that book I identified very much with Elphaba. On serveral occasions while reading I broke down in tears. Big, ugly heaving sobs. It affected me so much I cry just thinking about it.
When I saw the musical I was *pissed.* It was my best friend, who had also read the book, who soothed my anger by noting that she felt we had seen the same story from three different perspectives.
The original is Dorothy's perspective, as a child who doesn't understand the political machinations she's being subjected to.
The book is Elphaba's perspective, as the outsider who sees these machinations.
The musical is Glinda's perspective, and all she sees is her friend.
I really appreciate Maguire as an author - he gave a wonderful lecture at my university which I got to attend as part of a Wizard of Oz-focused class I was in. I cried listening to him talk about what the process of creating Wicked’s musical adaptation was like!
That class sounds amazing. I wish I attended.
@@jodgee2374 same here 😢
I read the book back in my teens and Elphaba's struggle and failure to make real change in the world is so relatable now in my 20s. She wants to help the Animals, overthrow the Wizard but didn't want to kill innocents, and finally she just gives up and lives in the mountains with her flying monkeys. She's never evil but an idealist turned cynic. Also, the main religions of the books are worship of an "unnamable god" and the "Ozmists" who follow an older pagan deity who they believe will return someday. In the background, the monotheists and pagans wage a war in the style of the Irish troubles while the Animals are dehumanized, stuffed in ghettoes and basically become an allegory for Jews, black people, Irish, Palestinians, and any oppressed minority you can name
Also there’s a new religion called “tiktokism” about self pleasure that’s really funny if you read it today
Thank you for this context/input! I’d love to read the novel as well
The quote from LFB’s mother-in-law near the end of her life is basically “Defying Gravity” 😅 It’s also very much in the pattern of Elphaba’s speech (in the musical at least)!
You touch on it a little in the video, but the Finnish production is actually really interesting when it comes to the themes of populism/fascism. From the photos I've seen and things I've read, that production ratcheted up the authoritarian feel of Oz by doing things like having characters "disappeared" off stage by Oz soldiers and never seen again, designing the Wizard's lair with a lot of eye theming (Big Brother is watching you and all that) and costuming the Wizard to look like Joseph Stalin
Well done. So much more to Wicked than "Popular," a love triangle, and friendship.
yup, I can't wait to watch. The thing that truly grabbed my perspective was listening to Defying Gravity, I never seen Wicked but heard the song in Glee, and re-listened to the Wicked version to prepare for the movie coming out, and those lyrics are too powerful not to mean something much bigger, so I went down a rabbit-hole
I read some where that Wicked, especially the novel, is an allegory to WW2. Once I learned that, Elphaba being played by a Jewish woman or a lady from another marginalized group makes sense
Well “friendship” is definitely one way to describe Elphaba and Glinda’s relationship
@@phoenixfritzinger9185 it’d be interesting if the film makes Elphie, Galinda, and Fiyero a throuple. I feel they are the only two people that truly loved her.
@@christinebelzie194 Glad I’m not the only one who has those vibes. Of course, shipping triads out of love triangles is my toxic trait
Oooh, fascinating your analysis about Elphaba leaving Oz, since, in hindsight, she's probably the one character who has traveled all over the country. She was born in Munchkinland, lived her childhood in Squadling Country, went to college / lived her first years of adulthood in the north (Gillikin and the Emerald City), and then spent her last years in the West.
I don't often comment on videos, but man, thanks for all that research! It made the whole video worth a rewatch
yeah the insane mindless consumerism the upcoming film had spawned is definitely something elphaba would not agree with lol, but i’ve seen the director talk about how they’ve picked up a lot of elements from the book to accomodate the extended runtime so hopefully it taps more into the political side of the story. great video btw!
It would be incredibly timely if they did touch on some of the current political issues facing this country...I wasn't sure about Ariana Grande for Glinda, but recent clips of her portrayal make me SOOO excited for this movie.
This is one of the better theatre video essays on TH-cam!
Knowing that L.Frank Baum's extened family was into bits of occultism makes so much sense. Having Santa being raised by a lioness and a wood nymph. In a forest of immortals along with pretty much the Horned King is starting to connect a few dots 😅😂 (please read The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus)
Also watch the Rankin Bass adaptations of the life and adventures of Santa Claus.
Ok I’ve never read it but that sounds WILD thanks for the rec!
@@Suchwerewolf You're welcome!
@@sakunarufulthat’s my favorite version of Santa!
I think those political tones in the story may have lost their specificity (I certainly didn’t think of Clinton or Bush when I first saw Wicked) but they haven’t lost their heft. I wish that it weren’t true but the concept of “you celebrate a unique person as long as it benefits you, and then publicly demonize their outward traits as soon as they disagree with you” is not only still relevant but increasingly so as modern day media and politics use it more and more shamelessly.
If anything, it’s made Wicked slightly less subtle over time just by merit of how aware we all are of it now.
I was today years old when I realized that the emcee from Cabaret played the Wizard in Wicked!
gen z who grew up watching/reading wicked. thank you for explaining the regime change joke. i was always very confused about that.
Happy to help 👴👴👴
I grew up fascinated with 1938 movie, acquired a second-hand copy of Aljean Hermetz' book in the 80's and read it so many times I am surprised it hasn't fallen apart. I also bought and read a number of "inspired by" Oz books (Notably "Was" by Geoff Ryman and "A Barnstormer of Oz" by Philip José Farmer), so of course I bought a hardcover copy of "Wicked" as soon as it was published and the cast album, T-Shirt, and baseball cap as soon as they were available. (The hat remains my bad hair day go-to.) When the show finally opened in Chicago, I was thrilled to finally see the Act II scene with Nessa and Boq, but what struck ME most about finally seeing the ending was how cynical it was.
I didn't see Elphaba's survival and escape as uplifting but as depressing. It told me was that "Popular" was the moral of the entire show -- idealism and good intentions are fine, but they are not enough. They must be tempered to appeal to the masses. You MUST be popular first.
BTW, I suspect it is due to our relative ages, but you (and most folks) missed a very prominent reference to Ronald Reagan in the bridge of "Popular". Sure, "the Teflon President" was was used by his flummoxed critics, but his supporters in the media dubbed him "The Great Communicator"!
Okay, wild recommendation, but there's a webcomic called "Yellow Brick Ramble" I've been spreading the gospel on - redoing "Land Of Oz" as a more explicit, jazzy, transgender romance. It's amazing.
My sister GOES by Ozma since she transitioned. It's a meaningful name, anyway, the second half of the name is from Maud Gage. Baum was a hopeless lovebird. But yeah, the trans community, she means a lot. A cartoonist friend wants to call her memoir "But You're Different."
Your presentation and narration are excellent! I really appreciated your section on Baum's mother-in-law. And that cast member saying, "They are making these {Wicked} films to win Oscars" is right on and tells us exactly what we can expect. It also tells us exactly why "WICKED" was divided into two films. It's a cash grab and Oscar bait, pure and simple. The business of Hollyweird. Hopefully, the films will be good and worthy "Oscar bait." If they disappoint, there's still the timelessness and sincerity of Judy Garland in MGM's 1939 "THE WIZARD OF OZ", which I prefer, anyway.
Damn you’re negative.
This was a wonderful video and I learned quite a bit so thank you for that. I really enjoyed learning about the author's mother in law that was quite fascinating. It is quite interesting that OZ was/should be a matriarchy when that wasn't a common view in children (or any really) media at that time. And yes I hope the film does dive a little deeper into darker elements of the book.
I'm glad you included the original end of the show with Dr. Dillimond as since I first heard it I really enjoyed it. And yes I agree the NY ending works better for the relationship between Elphie and Glinda, but I would like Dr. Dillimond's plot point to be resolved somehow. And I know the film is already made, but now I kind of want that ending scene rewritten and added into part 2. I would say between Glinda telling the wizard off and the finale, she ends up finding Dr. Dillimond and tries to get him to remember her and say her name, now not caring that he can't pronounce it as "Ga"linda like she did during her school days. I think it would just be a more impactful moment when in the show her name change can be seen s a "joke", but this way there would be a sweet, important point. Plus then we would see, even if it's no public yet, Glinda is trying to carry on her best friend's work as she was asked and is also trying to be "Glinda The Good" for real. That is just my view on what I wish could be added.
Keep up the great work and I hope once the movie comes out we'll hear from you again. And what are any of your hopes for the movie? Again wonderful job :)
I was already excited for the films' interpretation, but with your tour of its history, background and political themes, I am even more intrigued and will go into my next viewing with a greater appreciation of it. Fantastic job with the documentary.
Incredible research on all the source materials. I always look forward to your videos. Wicked Witch Forever!
X
I always thought that the other Oz books showed how much dorothy and glinda were really hard on other folks in the realm, and their hoarding of magic. Wicked seemed just what i wanted as an adult prequel.
yeah I agree. The witch who was enlisted to hide Ozma BY THE WIZARD ended up being punished, forbidden to use magic, Glinda putting a forget spell on her and stealing her magic books. That was horrible. Then in a later book, the Wizard returned and that story retconned to make him look innocent and Ozma and Glinda actually teaching him real magic. I was appalled
@@CrystalClearNews And we don't find out what happened to the King who disappeared when the Wizard took over
This is the Wicked video essay I’ve been waiting for- THANK YOU
I devoured this video essay! So so good! From a European point of view, to me the politics are what makes Wicked stand apart from the other more "commercial" musicals. As smooth as they are compared to the book, there's still enough lines and plot points that it's still very present and clear what Wicked stands for and what it's commenting on. I also hate that the story gets more relevant every passing year, how ironic indeed that the long awaited movie version will get released just after an important election, but I guess it wouldn't be Oz if it didn't have its pulse on where the USA are now.
Thank you for watching! X
watching this video right now of all times hits
I fell in love with Wicked, the novel, and read the sequels, Son of a Witch and A Lion of a Man. I was really put off of the musical as they changed and left out so much of the political intent. It sounds like the films are attempting to marry the musical back to its source.
I hope it won't be a case of attempting to please everyone but pleasing none.
I feel the same way, and I wish the sequel books got more attention in general, because they're so interesting. I love how he plays around with timelines and elements from the original books.
I need to try reading them again, I was too young when I tried the first time... I got to the part where baby Elphaba ate a person's finger and it made me immediately close the book 😂
That is my concern about the films as well: "attempting to please everyone but pleasing none."
@@jenkinsjrjenkinsYou missed the Tiger sex.
I came in interested in the title topic and ended up leaving OBSESSED with Matilda Gage
Oz being inspired by Edison feels so accurate, not just in the conman of it all but in that he generally got away with it because he was on the right side of history, until he wasn't.
Oh, you came so close to actually mentioning Finland's platantly Stalin inspired depiction of the Wizard but swerved right around it.
A really interesting video! Wicked (the Finnish production) was the of the first musicals to really make me into a musical fan and I have also seen it in London and the Hague (the British and the Dutch productions), as well as read the original book at one point. And the comments about the story being more relevant than ever with populism on the rise are quite chilling.
Oh my god! I am so excited for this!
first time watching one of your videos. It is not often on You Tube that an influencer can astonish me with an intelligent, thoughtful, accurate, truthful, and thought provoking persuasion. Bravissimo!
I am excited most to see how the movie will interpret the love story between Fieryo and Elphaba. When Elphie finally lets go of her inhibitions and finds her truth to love herself embracing her imperfections and uniqueness, she gains the courage to love Fieryo on a level few will ever experience in this lifetime. I hear Mamma RU in my head, "Don't F*ck it up!"
Thank you for informing me about Matilda Gage she is fascinating
Come for Wicked facts - stay for Matilda Joslyn Gage who should get a musical, a movie and a TV show about her!
Again, this gem comes up because of my perfectly curated algorithm.
Fantastic work as always, man. I can't believe how much this channel has grown, but its all down to your passion for the subject matter and your commitment to a fair and accurate view of history. Your perspective is so appreciated.
Also, where can I get merch for LFB's MIL cause I think I would die for her
I would too.
Thank you for this Video! It is SO important to dig deep into the material, because Wicked is such a great story for the times we live in in reality. It is way more than just a story about friendship, or for good merchandise. I am afraid people will overlook this in all the bubbles and CGI of the movie. As much I look forward to the movie,I am also scared about the "loss" of what Wicked really means. So we cannot point this out enough.
baums mother in law sounds iconic
Well, now I'm looking for hope in the face of enormous political obstacles
Interestingly, Wicked was the first Broadway play that I saw on Broadway, and during that same trip to New York in 2015, my mom told me that, "a very awful man is running for president, although he has virtually no chance since he has no political experience." We had of course just walked passed Trump Tower.
Well researched and beautifully told story of Wicked. Thank you for your scholarship. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Watched your cabaret video earlier, got curious about what other videos might catch my eye, and ended up being early
Love this video! And so glad you actually have read the book. I’ve been watching a lot of Oz video essays lately by people who have just read the book summary on Wikipedia. I will need to look more into LFB’s mother in law and her works, so so interesting
thank you!
i love your channel, especially since we all benefit from your research and synthesizing from all of the source material that you responsibly give credit! keep up the wonderful work.
I am really excited for the expansion of the Magic System. In the book and the musical, magic is very matter of fact and yet very untangiable. For what I saw on the trailer I am guessing they're gonna give Elpahaba time to understand and work through her magic. One thing that is very clear in the musical is how connected her powers are to her emotions, so I believe if they handle it well, that could be an amazing tool and reflection of her inner journey, I'm excited to see. On the other hand, on both, her magic comes from being a "daughter of two worlds", and I would love for the script to go deeper into that notion.
I love Wicked deeply. The show debuted when I was in high school, and I was obsessed from the first time I heard a piece of the music. But I have to be honest, I am not looking forward to the screen adaptation. Jon Chu is a great director, but the choice to split it into two movies is a red flag to me, on top of the fact that this project was in development hell for, like, 15 years. There hasn't been a single detail I've learned about this project that has given me confidence in a strong final product, but I truly do hope that I'm worried for nothing.
I'm probably the only one, but I would love to see some of the old Oz vaudeville shows get modern productions. They're kind of an odd little footnote, but I think it would be fun.
Been struggling making my own video of this nature! This is so good. I’ve been fascinated with the world of the wicked novels for some time. It’s the version of Oz that if you peel back all of the high vocabulary and descriptions and just leave the story, it’s so great what he’s done. The way I wonder about the happenings in Oz is great.
Thank you! X
I think that Maguire spotted something that the rest of the readers/viewers of either Baum's original or the movie either chose to ignore of simply did not see. The Wizard is a con-man. He has NO magic, merely American Chutzpah and that, and that alone allows him claim and hold power, despite the fact he is in a land where Magic is real.
And there is a Political analogy from even Baum's time. In the 1890s, US business people overthrew the legitimate government of Hawaii and seized power - and the US recognised the usurpers as the legitimate rulers.
Again, in the 1920s and 1930s, before the making of the movie, there were various military "interventions" (aka invasions) of various Central American countries in order to support various US fruit companies.
All of these were clear examples of US Imperialism in action, lead by American "Business" people (aka "Con-men"), the US, with overwhelming public support from the US population, created and maintained an overseas Empire, in every way as oppressive as the then current European empires.
Maybe Baum did not see the parallel (certainly with Hawaii), but I sense that Maguire did.
And then we come to the 2000s and the release of the Musical, when the Book of the Musical focuses on the "politicians" failures, it again obscures the "Con-men" then exemplified by Haliburton and the various "Contractors" committing atrocities while getting obscenely wealthy in Iraq and elsewhere - and still facing no consequences - just like the Wizard in the Original Baum creation...
And then we come to 2024 where much of the US has been in Thrall to a Businessman/Con-Man for almost a decade; a Con-Man lauded by large parts of the US Media; A Con-Man who doesn't even pretend to care for much of the US population or political rules; who threatens to be a "Dictator on day one" and to throw his political opponents into camps; yet, who is still supported not only by the successors of the Overthrowers of Hawaii and Central America and Iraq, but also by modern "Con-Men" like Musk.
Maguire saw this and warned us about this - but Americans just wanted a "Good Tune".
It may be something too many sing in Trump's Camps....
I really, REALLY want them to give Fiyero the diamonds in his skin, though I doubt they have done that seeing the trailer. It's such a small detail that I really want them to include.
Great video! I so dearly love both the Gregory Maguire novels and the amazingly beautiful musical. I must confess, I hope they include more elements from the novel in the film version.
Great discussions in this video!
Thanks!
I know this will never happen but I would love to see Liir or a character like him in the second movie. The scenes with him and elphaba were some of my favorites.
50:06 ="I am not that Girl"... It's the song that made me accept I will never be chosen by anyone and it's fine.
i suppose the fact that the movie is divided in 2 parts, with a total runtime of nearly 5 hours, mean that it will bring back some of the more radical elements present in the book and softened by the musical adaptation. as you said, some of the biting commentary in the musical is less biting now that we witnessed the past 20 years in politics... and i think that means a new adaptation needs sharper teeth. also, another belief i have when it comes to the movies is that the first one will make LOTS of money, and the second will have less demand because we already had the lighter part and the more famous songs. leaves a lot of runtime for Wicked II to explore Elphaba's politics.
I think Hamiltons' natural nose aided in the rest of the prosthetics not looking uncanny. She looks great in the role, its iconic.
Great presentation. Too bad the dozen TH-cam ads broke in at inappropriate times to turn it into chaos.
This was such amazing work well done!
Watching this after the 2024 election. 😅
'That is more than "I guess we're friends"'
Agreed
I hope these films have nuance
this was such an incredible episode, I really enjoyed watching it. so well researched and edited and I'm so grateful for any kind of content that acknowledges Maguire's book because its politics and philosophies are so fascinating and important. that being said, I desperately hope that the movie will deliver more on the queer subtext of the book, although I'm kind of pessimistic of how far they'll go while trying to appeal to a mainstream audience...
This is my Favorite musical 😀❤️❗️
Elphaba is my Favorite #1 comfort charather
Weird fun fact: In the original 2005 premiere in Chicago, Elphaba was played by the infamous Ana Gasteyer (best known for her SNL career)
This video is awesome! Congrats!
I want them to not be cowards and let Glinda and Elphaba be queer already! It’s so obviously baked into the songs and the story. That would definitely give it more weight and make it resonate more.
Women can love each other without being lesbians. It is so tiresome having our complex lives reduced to our sexuality, often for the benefit of the male gaze.
Wicked premiered when I was in Middle School/High School so while I have loved it for a long time, I hadn’t really interrogated the political aspects of it…and then I took my cousin to see it on Broadway the weekend after the 2016 election, and was a little shocked at how blatantly political it was (and how much the audience reacted to some of those lines you mentioned). I always pictured it as a much more sanitized version of the book, and while it is, it definitely has moments of commentary on the the Bush administration in particular and corrupted populism in general (and I’m sure the movie will read to some as a reaction to the Trmp admin).
That laugh gave me goosebumps OMG!!! 8:13
I’m amazed Mayim Bialik hasn’t starred in a Margaret Hamilton biopic. That would be Oscars gold!
she’s too busy pandering genocid@l propaganda on twitter to do all that, not to mention she’s just a bad actor lol
Matilda Joslyn Gage - what a woman!! I hope there are soft references to her across the two films. I want to write a film about her.
I saw it on stage and didn't think it lived up to the hype.
Every use of the word Wicked in background sections of this video feels like in star wars the clone wars, whenever Anakin does something messed up and they take a second to pause and play the empire theme
I wonder if the Avenue Q movie will come out before the Oscars? Vote with your heart! Lol😂
I hope to be queen Ozma in a Oz film adaptation 🏳️⚧️👸
My dad used to always tell me about how George W. was basically the wizard from Wicked. It was somewhat funny how he’s always segue into it, but was he wrong?
I am looking forward to how they portray the Muscical Number For Good with Elpheba and Glinda.
I'm very hopeful the rumors of more inclusion of the book are true, as it's one of my favorites. My personal gripe with the musical is how they change the origin stories of the Tin Woodman and the Scarecrow; as an Oz purist, the changes feel like a cheap copout.
I call it the Oz multiverse. The original MGM movie has its own mythology, varied again in Disney’s Return to Oz, the novel of ‘Wicked’, not to mention the hot mess that is ‘Oz the Great and Powerful’.
Matilda Gage was punk before punk existed. Amazing woman.
Totally punk. X
The parable resonates even more now, especially since 2016.
i don't know for other countries, but the production of wicked in brazil can't never not be political
I read the book first, and I have never hated a musical more than when I saw Wicked.
Loved this thank you
Please read the book! It’s fabulous.
“Secular” means void of any religion at all, not just Christianity.
Cool. Thanks.
I think the movies will be more in depth with the book than the show so maybe something will resonate with the viewer so who knows
Now that I know Staged Right reads these comments, I have another question.
You make a point that in early performances, Nessa Rose saying "I'm an unelected official! I can't harbor a fugitive!" got a big laugh. I never even processed that line as a joke. Certainly people at the two performances I went to didn't.
What's the thing that made people laugh? Was Bush accused of harboring a fugitive?
I have low expectations for the movie, I love the musical so much I doubt they will live up to it. Also they took away Glinda's curls
I went to see Wicked a few weeks ago, that Unelected official line got a good response, as I imagine it has for the past few prime ministers.
How interesting!
"making this film to win Oscars" oh dear god
The movie will probably be fluff because the studios will do everything in their power not to offend the 1% and it's killing tv and media
I'm surprised you didn't touch on the accidental jewish coding that was made when creating the Witch in the 37 film! The long nose and green skin weren't a part of the witch's design in the book, and it instead has in common with typical antisemitic propaganda of the time. I'm thinking Maguire was very self aware of that when he wrote Wicked, and hence why the story both in the book and the musical has a strong race allegory with Elphaba's character.
Okay.
I don't know what to say about your comment, but I'll add my experience with noses. A few Italian girls I knew from Catholic school in my childhood had the traditional bumpy nose that illustrators used in fable books like Strega Nona and older illustrators. I never thought of those noses as Jewish stereotypes, since they were the bumpy noses of the local people, and I was a kid, yet to learn about American culture, or much outside school and home. The girls were teased as teenagers horrifically by the richer foreign boys that attended the school for daring not to be 'perfect' to their taste, it was an issue of misogyny. To me, the cute blond teens had noses appropriate for the region, just like the aquiline and roman noses of my Spanish ancestors, fit their regions. Heck, I am married to a man with a gorgeous big nose descended from Scandinavians via northern Britain. All of these people were/are Roman Catholic. The girls probably got plastic surgery sometime in the 90s to smooth out their witch nose bump.
The depiction of noses seems to be an issue across cultures, a couple of centuries ago Easter Asians were not kind in describing Europeans. Heck, even a large Mayan nose is strikingly beautiful with their geometry, and the native people of Yucatan had to live under the horrible Spanish colonial caste system for centuries, which made their noses seen as problematic.
You’re reaching here. The original conceit of witches being gnarled crones (with any number of unflattering features) was largely an invention of the early Renaissance era. It was almost wholly about stigmatizing a certain type of woman, not antisemitic sentiment.
In fact, the illustrations in Maguire’s own book were directly inspired by Renaissance/Shakespearean-era engravings. If you think that’s a coincidence then I have a timeshare in Florida I’d love to sell you.
Very cool video
The word was cliched (clee-shayed) not clinched.
K
Ugh I want Liir in the movies 😭
Wow, I'm so glad that first actress was too vain to play an ugly person because Margaret Hamilton IS the witch, i couldn't imagine anyone else playing that role in that film.
I liked your back ground but I can’t believe you didn’t even touch the female friendship at the center of the musical. That is what keeps me coming back. I cry listening to “for good” and thinking about the women that have come in and out of my life.
Cool.
40:11 we just went and saw it last month in SF (last time we saw it was 2009 at the same venue) and we found it still quite topical and relevant. I could see Bush, and I could see Trump as well. "unelected official" and "regime change" got lots of laughs.
Amazing video! I’m curious on your thoughts on the wiz (1978) and how it might tie into this perspective? I haven’t seen the wiz yet cause it’s like 4 dollars to rent rn on every damn platform.
Just watched this, and I really like your analysis of both the book and the musical, along with the book and movie they were based on. I remembered that L. Frank Baum's Mother in Law was a suffragist, but I didn't know how far she was. I'm somewhat pessimistic about the overall prospects of it. (Yes, it's pretty clearly going to get a bunch of money. With tickets being out now, it's very clear that's a thing that's happening., but I also doubt it will succeed at the Oscars, though with the Dramas/traditional Oscar bait being separated from Musicals, I think it could do well in the Golden Globes.) I consider myself more "Middle Millenial" but my memories of 2007-2009 were such a time of both color and despair for me with this show. I admit my feelings towards it are more "How dare you make me give a shit about this part of my past I closed off many years ago by casting my favorite actor (Who I also think absolutely should not have been cast in that role if they're half as honest about bringing back book elements).
The jokes went over my head, but I wasn't very political at that same time in my teenhood. My clearest memory of watching was July 4, 2007 in London, the day after a certain other popular fantasy show premiered, and I recall Glinda having to pause after a certain line in "No one mourns the wicked" (Which very much is a reference to said fantasy show) because of that day. As I said, while my feelings towards the show are more disappointment to disgust, I have such clear vivid memories of this show and it's hard to fully shed it.
And while I never read past the third book of the Oz series by Baum, I remember being fascinated by it, and the way it was subtle-ly political. Even now, one of the two webcomics I read also dives deep into the story of Oz (Very much the books, not the movie), and so the story remains very clear for me in how it expresses itself and I still think of the books fondly, even if I didn't come into them until I was an adult because of Wicked.
here after The Incident
I really enjoyed this video, but in the future if you discuss Indigenous cultures and practices, could you use more accurate terminology? The name "Iroquois" was given by settlers, the group refers to themselves (and is referred to by other Indigenous groups, including my own) as the Haudenosaunee.
And? Germans call themselves "Deutsche", that doesn't mean calling them "German" is inaccurate, it just means you're speaking English not German.
@@oliviastratton2169 the difference is that the name “Iroquois” was given by a group who were actively colonizing and trying to wipe out the Haudenosaunee people. Settlers did everything in their power to wipe out Indigenous cultures, including removing traditional names, and using the original ones help bring those cultures back and shows respect.
I’m sure if the name German (which also makes more logical sense as it’s the English name for the country) was assigned against their will by a group who was trying to actively destroy everything about them, Germany would have a problem with it being used as well.
this was a really interesting and excellent researched video. one thing i think it's a little irresponsible not to note though when speaking about baum and his connection to his MIL and her inspiration by indigenous communities, is that baum believed in the complete extermination of indigenous people in america, a hardline racist opinion that was no by no means the standard belief of the time.
Hi there. I’m very well aware of LFB’s disturbing op-Eds which were published through his newspaper, but determined I could not include them without completely changing the scope of the video. It is not a subject to be mentioned in passing. As you will hear, I have cited both the American Oz doc and Finding Oz biography which covers his genocidal sentiments (without sentiment) to address the more ambivalent aspects of LFB. I especially appreciated Sally Roesch Wagner’s dismissal of an ‘either or’ perspective on his horrifying writings and viewing it as a ‘both and’ situation. After 22 episodes on this channel, I have learned through trial and error (and continue to learn) that I cannot always include everything that I find in my research. This sometimes frustrates people who are upset that I don’t mention certain details. But I can assure you, even as a humble TH-camr, I do try to take responsibility for what I put out there. I do hope that people will watch the documentary or read Evan Schwartz’s book and learn that this writer of a great classic was really just a human being, flaws and all. Thanks for watching. X
I give you credit for being generous enough to actually want to see the movie but I also find it ironic that musical theatre fans are who’re keeping the crappy-Broadway-to-Hollywood-adaptation-for-the-sake-of-money-and-awards machine alive.
I’d washed my hands of big screen adaptations of musicals a long time ago and the casting choices in this one are just unforgivable
As you will see in the comments, there are a number of people who do not share the enthusiasm of the fans... or the "professional influencer fans". For me, 'Wicked' was a formative musical from my teens and while there are still moments I look forward to (I'm seeing it in Toronto next week) there are are parts that... do not hold up. That being said... someone else pointed this out online... it is nice to see people excited about something they love. It's a terrible slog of a time for countless people around the world right now and I hope we can allow some relief and joy, even for a silly movie... er, movies. Thanks for watching. X
Just say you don't like black Elphaba and pop star Glinda and go.