Latin & Greek Pronunciation Evolution 500 BC to 500 AD, LLiNYC 2020, Paideia Institute
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มี.ค. 2020
- Ōrātiuncula apud Paideiae Īnstitūtī Living Latin in New York City, Feb. 2020
Subtitles in English and Latin • press the "CC button to change
Subtitutlī Anglicē et Latīnē • preme "CC" globulum ut mūtētur
Vōcēs litterārum classicārum quae per saecula inmūtantur:
quantī aestīmentur ac quōmodo ēnūntientur sermōnēs restitūtī nōn modo aetātum "Classicārum," sed omnium aevōrum regiōnumque nōbīs nōtārum quibus dīlectae litterae nostrae sint cultae.
Plūrimās grātiās Stephanō Victōrī & Rāphāēlī Turrigiano
quī collēgae permultum mē adjūvārunt,
necnōn Paideiae Īnstitūtō ( www.paideiainstitute.org ) quod mē invītāvit ut habērem hanc ōrātiunculam.
_____
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Your fluency, your voice and your lovely bold head are brighter than my future.
Hasufel y Arod you’re too kind! Thanks for watching and sharing 😃
That means, in no way, that your future is not bright.
Quite an inspiration. Thanks for your continued efforts of preservation and propagation.
You're very kind! Thanks for subscribing and sharing the video! 🤠
wow! that was truly amazing. great job! I'm eagerly waiting to hear you give more lectures in the future, maybe in Greek?
Thanks! ☺️ Heh maybe some day I will
This is truly fascinating. Historical linguistics and how languages change over time are two of my favorite subjects to learn about.
I don't speak Latin or Italian {yet}, but I just attended a full lecture. I love it.
About "clamat" => "chiama", this phenomenon doesn't appear in standard French at all as we still have "clame". Same with "glaciēs" => "ghiaccio" with "glace" in French. For once, French is the most conservative language, lol
Final -t was kept until archaic French, as can be seen in texts from this era. As far as I can remember, it was a -θ before being dropped.
Quite so!
In the area of today's Bulgaria, North Macedonia and Southeastern Serbia the phenomenon of "partial" palatalization is very much alive.
What is a fully palatal sound Ć in Standard Serbian is pronounced as a velopalatal kʲ or alveolopalatal tʲ in southeastern Serbia, North Macedonia and Bulgaria.
For instance, the Bulgarian city of Кюстендил [kʲustendil] is known in Serbian as Ćustendil [t͡ɕustendil] (note that ̑ indicates a single-sound (merged) pronunciation in IPA).
In southeastern Serbia the pronunciation will be that of Bulgarian, i.e. [kʲustendil] even if the spelling is Ćustendil.
The same phenomenon of partial palatalization occurs with Č. Again, in Standard Serbian it is a single fully palatal sound, but in southeastern spoken dialects of Serbian, it is pronounced as a combination of t and š (sh), where t is an alveolar stop (not having its full phonetic dental realization) but it merely appears as an obstruent to the pronunciation of the sound sh, for which reason the pronunciation seems somewhat "stuttery".
Now, as we move westwards and away from Bulgaria, North Macedonia and southeastern Serbia, the Serbian of central, western and northern Serbia (both in its standard and spoken pronunciation) clearly distinguishes between the single fully palatal sounds of (soft) Ć [t͡ɕ] and (hard) Č [t͡ʃ].
If we move further towards northwest and enter eastern Croatia, this distinction is still very much present.
However, as we go towards the west of Croatia, Ć and Č begin to merge into a single sound akin to the Italian palatal in Cicerone which in Italian may range in pronunciation from a softer to a harder sound, depending on the speaker's dialect and idiolect.
Although it is of note that the IPA is not distinguishing between the never-so-hard Italian palatal in Cicerone and the hard Serbo-Croatian Č, describing both sounds as [t͡ʃ].
Anyway, my theory is that the palatals were imparted on Latin by Slavs as they started occupying the Balkans in the 3rd and 4th centuries AD. It seems like palatals may have been brought to Italy by the retreating population. This was reinforced by the presence of palatals in the languages of Germanic tribes that were lurking in the Transalps.
Modern Greek to this day resists the fully formed palatal sounds of ch and sh (I would say in Cyprus palatals may occur through contact with Turkish).
In general, I believe that palatals in Indo-European languages come from a rather complex system of palatals in Slavic languages. We observe a similar complexity in the vowel system of Germanic languages, which seems to have affected French, as well as Portuguese to an extent.
I'm still puzzled about the nasal vowels in French and Portuguese though. I wonder if nasalization in the Romance languages is a phenomenon arising out of an interaction with the historical nasal vowel systems in Slavic languages (Polish being the only Slavic language with a significant population of native speakers preserving nasals to this day) or if the nasals in the Romance languages are an entirely separate development that happened to follow the same pattern as the one proposed for Slavic languages. 🤔
Alguien capaz de mostrar tanto entusiasmo por la gamma (11:27) es profesor nato. Gracias Luke por darle magia a las lenguas clásicas!
Gracias 😃
Nōn possum crēdere mē tantummodō hodiē invēnire hanc optimam pelliculam. Mēa sententiā librum Latīnē dē hīs rēbus scrībere possīs! Grātiās multās tibi agō, Luciī (et Rāphāēl)!
Imagine some guy, like a random janitor or something casually walking in and finding this
I don´t know a word of latin, but since I´m a native Spanish speaker I tried to figure out the whole thing.
Cool! But there are both English and Latin subtitles available 😃
@@ScorpioMartianus Thank you a lot, I find really interesting all that sound mutations, and I also love the practical way you use latin.
@@pedrodevicentelopez3650 Thank you very much! :D
Macte ut semper, Luci! 😮 Tu orator disertissimus es
Bellissimo, scopro solo ora. C'è una scuola in Italia specializzata sullo studio del latino e greco antico che si chiama liceo classico(prima dell'università)possiamo dire in inglese "umanities studys High school" che è quello che ho fatto io.
È una cosa rarissima questa,soprattutto in Italia,dove la SOTTOcultura ha soppiantato totalmente le nostre meravigliose antiche radici. La pronuncia utilizzata era quella di Erasmo da Rotterdam che so essere la meno giusta in assoluto.Grazie per questo lavoro Luca,rispolvero col tuo aiuto i miei libri di greco e latino e ricomincio a studiarle.
thanks for subtitles
Ive been trying to reconnect with my ancient roots and this has just been wonderful. Also Metatron sent me... hes a good kid that one
Amo todo esto. *I love all this.*
Aprenderé latín, un poco aunque sea, gracias a ti. *I will learn Latin, even if it's a bit, thanks to you*
What if for the next song, you made a cover of _Pumped-Up_ Kicks by *Foster the People*
It would be totally surreal to hear such a modern rock rhythm in a solemn mighty language like Latin.
I even made a possible version for the chorus, which must be incorrect.
*Omnes pueris cum calciamentum carus*
*fugite, fugite*
*quod, hodie sum armatum*
Hasufel y Arod thanks for the kind remarks and recommendations!
@@ScorpioMartianus I hope I was of help and I hope you are able to pull it off.
Luke, thank you for your efforts spreading awareness about latin and ancient greek. Seeing all your material about lucian pronunciation, I am still confused: how are ᾱυ ηυ ωυ pronounced？in the chart, there are many pronunciations, so I am somewhat confused. Also are νκ and γκ pronounced the same？I still do not get those specific parts of the lucian pronunciation. Where the lucian pronunciation stands on the chart？ If you could answer, I would be glad.
Hi! Thanks for the comment. Those long dipthongs merge with the non long versions: αυ ευ, and ωυ becomes ω.
Lucian Pronunciation is a selection of these sounds from the Roman Classical Period where they were contemporary. If you have further questions just let me know!
This is incredible! Where is this school? Where can I go to a school to learn how to speak Latin?
Also, if I understood correctly, in Ancient Greek the s was pronounced like they do in Modern Greek and Spanish?! That's interesting!
Regarding that particular s, in Sardinian that's also the way it is pronounced
Sicut semper, haec pellicula est optimus fons mutationum pronuntionis linguae latinae. Gratias multas iterum tibi ago, Luke.
Will you make a video about all those late latin developments? You've mentioned this a few times but only briefly, and i am very interested in the matter
Also, wouldn't Augustine have spoken something more sardinian-like, as an African Romance speaker?
I’ve made videos on both channels about them.
The explanation about the s's at 5:07 is truly remarkable
Thanks! See this th-cam.com/video/NqbV6bLpC-U/w-d-xo.html
About the explanation of the pronunciation of s through Spanish: we have to consider that medieval Castilian did have the sh sound all through, and it still did in 16th century. From then on the shift towards [x] had place, apparently because its proximity to Spanish [s]. Something else we have to consider is that [s] in American Spanish is like Italian, even if there's no sh sound in American Spanish either.
Right, for which reason the retracted S doesn’t exist in most Latin American varieties, but does in Castilian.
@@ScorpioMartianus But what's that reason? Neither in American Spanish nor in Peninsular Spanish there's sh sound. Shouldn't they behave in the same way then?
@@ScorpioMartianus I'm convinced that what you say is something determining the nature of [s], but I have doubts about the degree of that determination.
The development of the sibilants in Spanish is really interesting. I will be making a video on it in the future.
Gratias tibi ago! Optimum opus est
marta carletti grātiam tibi habeō, Marta! Rētcēne suspicor tē esse Italam?
ScorpioMartianus Bene dixi, Itala sum.
My comment was supposed to be after the Latin course you just started. I learned Latin with dictionary and translation, now I am trying to switch to spoken Latin. Your videos are great!
Hi Luke, thank you very much for your amazing videos!
I am an amateur linguist with an IT background. I was wondering whether there have been any efforts to model the evolution of the phonetics of Latin and Greek using AI. Do you have any information on that?
Do you still have your "Electronic Tables" on the evolution of pronunciation?
Yup, LukeRanieri.com
@@ScorpioMartianus thanks
do you need to think about the language your speaking or do you just speak it without thinking??? i don't speak ancient Greek or latin or any other language fluently so i was just wondering if you had to think about the language your speaking the whole time? sorry if that doesn't make sense i am socially awkward so i don't talk to people. i am also home schooled and when i am out dont talk to people either so i don't usually make sense when i do talk to people sorry.
Do you think about English when you speak it? A fluent speaker does not think about language very much and instead speaks it.
@@richardyao9012 thank you i thought you just spoke it so this helps me a lot thank you
jensine schmitz The answer was not from the magister FYI
Romanissimo!
se pareba boves
alba pratalia araba
albo versorio teneba
nigrum semen seminaba
- nostisne illud? In fine orationis tuae mihi huius loci, quod primum documentum linguae italicae habetur, in mentem venit.
O Luci, utinam ne oratio mea eodem tempore ac tua fuisset! Res valde arridet. Multa iam novi (ut illud de vocalibus, e.g. pira -> pera, homo -> uomo), multa in colloquiis tuis cum Stephano, multa novum audivi, sicut de littera "s": nesciebam "s" alia fuisse ac nostra hodierna! :-) itaque "s" similis mihi videtur illi linguae graecae hodiernae!
Ita est ut dīcis! Eadem S est ac Graecē 😃
4:40 "a little bit more to the left please, that way you can block the entire camera with your hair."
Optime fecisti!
,,Limba latina se trage din limba romana si nu invers"- Miceal Ledwith (confident al papei Paul al II-lea.)
haha! asta e amuzant. Iubesc limba română. Studiul meu de limba română a fost esențial în realizarea acestei cercetări.
Chiar te amuza? Deci biserica catolica spune minciuni !? Sa nu spui ca auzi prima oara aceasta zicere!
ScorpioMartianus Limba romana se trage din latina nu invers
Florin Alfonse mari falsitati
pourquoi est-ce que je regarde ça ?
Moi je me demande la même chose. Mais j suis grec donc j’ai compris un peut.
Et pourquoi pas ?
So it was both, the solid and nasalized final m pronunciation, just like I had deduced.
Not exactly. The solid -m is a barbarism 99% of the time; it happens extremely rarely in actual native Latin, well into late antiquity. It’s best avoided, but of course as I demonstrate here it did exist
Diferenta dintre limba romana si latina este urmatoarea; primii au spus-o ceilalti au scris-o.
Ei bine, asta este cu siguranță o parte a diferenței! Depinde de secol, așa cum explic în discursul meu.