For anyone on the fence regarding a motion platform, I was in your exact spot 11 months ago, I ended up going with the DOF H6 (based on the opinions of these two professionals) I have absolutely zero regrets, Mark and Jeff are 1000% correct with respect to racing with 6DOF, the immersion factor is crazy. (no disrespect to H3 owners, that is an awesome platform). I have had several friends try my rig....every single person has responded the same way, "the realism is AMAZING" ! If you can afford it, YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT !!! Thank you Mark and Jeff for all that you do for this community !
Well thank you Danny for continuing to support the channel on Patreon and also being a proponent to the power of these amazing machines. Appreciate you my friend!
I’m only on the fence purchasing an H6 because I’m a little intimidated with motion compensation and software setup. I anticipate a learning curve but how was your experience with the technical setup?
@@jackassery4656 I know you asked Danny about this, but I wanted to make sure you saw our video on Motion Compensation th-cam.com/video/NYPJjTfguws/w-d-xo.html... Maybe it will alleviate some of your concern.
As someone who has yet to buy a motion rig but plan to sometime next year, I have to say in all honesty this was one of the most INCREDIBLE podcasts I've ever had the pleasure of listening to! You guys made this discussion about motion sims really enjoyable. Thank you! This topic certainly doesn't get covered enough. Whether you're on the fence about the DOF Reality, a D-Box, PT Actuator, etc, there was a WEALTH of good information in this episode. Mark I really hope you bring Jeff back for another episode on this topic. Great job guys! 👍👍👍👍
Well thank you for taking the time to watch it, and I REALLY appreciate the kind words. If you do decide to go with a system that uses SRS, Jeff and I have a few other videos on the channel that talk about the motion profile tuning and how to do that as well. Part 1 th-cam.com/video/pzi8G7T9p7A/w-d-xo.html and Part 2 th-cam.com/video/LSStkqpIX_M/w-d-xo.html If you enjoyed this, you will probably enjoy that as well. Jeff has become somewhat of a regular so don't be surprised if we do something like this again down the road. If you have any other questions about this stuff, let me know. And we do have that discount code in the video if you decide to choose a DOF Reality. Thanks again for the comment.
Thanks for watching! Nice to get complimented from someone who I think makes incredible videos themselves! Maybe if you are interested, we can have a 3 person discussion about motion simulators someday down the road. Would love to get you on the channel and introduce you to more of my viewers! BTW is your rig a 3DOF? I've had some people ask me about it and I was guessing based on what I saw on your channel.
@@GYGOtv Oh thanks mate :). I would love to do a stream with you guys. Yes mine is 4 actuators from Eracing Labs, that makes it 3DOF. I think our viewers are begging for us to do a COOP stream in the Mechs hahaha.... now that would be epic.
Thank you Mark and Jeff, we have needed this kind of overview for a long time and I appreciate you putting it together for us. Right now, I am deciding whether to switch out my DoF P3 motors for the new Hr Flight motors or save that for some of the other upgrade options you have been discussing here.
How old of a system do you have? I think with the new No Cog Reducers it would be worth it and if your system is older you also get the new encoders instead of the sensor for higher resolution of position and you would also get the braking system if you don't have that already. I assume you at least have SFU gears? BTW Thanks again for the donation!
@@GYGOtv My P3 is about 11 months old, so I think it has all the latest regarding the motors except the new reduction for smoothness. I do notice the "cogging" but it hasn't been a big distraction for me, but I have seen others on FB say they really like the new motors for flight. So, I have been thinking about switching out my P motors for 3 Hr motors. Based on my email discussion with support, they now recommend to replace all 3 motors for compatibility, so total cost would be about $1200 with shipping if I hang onto the P motors, or $800 if I return them. It also seems they will have the new P reduction motors available in mid December ($500 per for the Pr vs. $300 for the Hr). Do you have any thoughts based on what your are hearing in the community? Very happy to buy you a beer or two for everything you do here!
@@VariVR Well thanks again for the Super Thanks donation! SO, you probably do have all the updates if your system is that new (except the no-cog of course). Honestly I don't think you need to upgrade the yaw motor unless you plan to eventually do the 6-DOF. As for switching over to the H from the P, I never recommend the P unless it is an arcade setting. Now I dont' know if the new P-motors are going to have some additional advantage I don't know about but I haven't heard anything like that yet. I guess it depends on how big a hurry you are in. The cool thing is I think when all is said and done, this new version should be the holy grail of motion sims so I don't anticipate any major improvements like the No-Cog Reducers for awhile. Have you considered just moving up to an H6?
@@GYGOtv Thanks Mark, I originally went with the P3 because it was on sale there is some information on the DoFR website that reflects a little better response time. However, as you say, everything I have seen since then from users seems to indicate no practical difference for home users with the SFUs. So, I think I will likely go with the Hr motors if I decide to switch out, which as you note, will give me a less expensive path to a 6DoF rig down the line (not ready to make that leap yet as I am still wondering a bit about the actuator alternative - I see Jeff's comment here too). I appreciate your insight on all of this!
That's correct: 6 "axis" (proper technical term) of control in our universe is all we know for a single node. When people claim you can have more axis, it's only by adding additional nodes like in a robotic arm with added joints or similar mechanical device on a single machine. However, the holy grail is all 6 axis with 3 in "Full 360 Degrees" he, he, he!!!! (I would get sick from that, LOL! However that crazy ball simulator would be awesome for a few minutes! Plus would need to sell my whole ranch to acquire one, LOL!) Being a retired robotics guy, been eyeing the DOF Reality systems. Getting too old to scratch build a system myself anymore! No problem with assembly or tweaking on it over time though. After my 5090 purchase, looking for the final item: The motion Pit later in 2025 or sooner if they have a promotional discount anytime soon. I was considering either a H6 or even a P6! I was waiting for DOF to upgrade to better motors with ball/screw, (mini actuator) design and real optical encoders. Looks like they added it now? I would rather pay extra for a stronger frame and drivetrain setup. (I'm 6'3" and 240Lbs.) (One thing I don't do is weld and don't want frame problems down the road, or having to take it to a local shop every couple years.) I can't tell any difference in frame design or motor drivetrain differences between the P and H models via available on-line photos. The only spec difference is P6 has faster top speed/travel times. (Odd they would both show the same torque ratings with 2 different speeds, must be a linkage or gearing torque limiting issue? I wonder what other differences they have between the 2 models before making a final purchase decision. This system is the only brand that is in the price range I want to pay for too, others are just too much for the time I would spend on it but I really want the full 6 "axis" control system, you both convinced me, LOL! Thanks for the video!
Thanks for taking the time to write such a long comment, always appreciate those of you who have expertise in advanced fields like you do! So one thing you will want to make sure you do is buy the unit from the "Flight" or "Heli" tab because those come with the latest "No-Cog Reducers" that smooth out very slow rotations in the rig. As for the P-Series, Everything is the same except the motors which are a bit more durable. Technically the P-Motors are faster like you say, but in practice the motion is basically the same on both. I highly recommend the H Series unless you are running it 8 hours a day/ 7 days a week. Hope that helps, and be sure to use my discount code to save 5% and help the channel out too. The code is in the video at the bottom. Please let me know if you have any other questions and welcome to this awesome world of Motion!
Thank you, always happy to see a comment from you. Appreciate the longtime support of my work and the channel. Glad we are keeping up with expectations! More to follow so stay tuned.
@@GYGOtv your very welcome by the way do you know if jeff has any new profiles on the SRS for racing ? i really need to take the time and explore some profiles for racing or flying but i would like to use jeffs or even yours if you have any.
@@richardPalmisano A link to mine are in the description and you can go to Jeff's website to see all his (he moved them there so he has a backup to all his SRS profiles) go to www.simmotiontuning.com/
Great video mate....always good to hear what Jeff and you have to say....BTW, just realised why I was not being thrown around like you were on my flight a couple of weeks ago....I checked today before the flight and found that TURBULENCE was switched off in MSFS2020....set it to "realistic" and boy was I being thrown around this morning with the 35knts of wind I had dialed into my custom weather for the flight....but felt great at the same time and, as always, stepped out of the rig after the flight with huge smile on my dial.....
Thanks for watching!!! ya it was the most extreme turbulence I've felt in the rig... I think you heard me grunting as it tossed me up and down and side to side. Anyway, glad you liked the video and look forward to flying with you again someday. Cheers!
Another great video. You have been busy! After listening to You, Jeff and so many others on Discord, I wonder if it boils down to the type of simmer you are. What I mean is; If you feel that VR, HOTAS, rudder pedals, and FFB Steering wheels are essential, then go for a motion rig, but if you are satisfied with a joy stick and only sim occasionally, it’s probably not worth the expense. Maybe it’s down to if you are willing to accept the illusion to be immersed, or expect to be immersed.
I think Jeff put it right in the video 59:57 if you have ever dreamed of going down to the local Air Force Base and jumping in one of their simulators or going to a racing team to drive one of theirs then Motion is probably right for you. I'd probably say if you need to sim in VR because you can't do flat screen anymore, then you are probably a candidate for motion... if the PS5 and a controller on your TV is enough then you probably don't need one. Great comment and thanks for watching.
I think the most reasonable priced(€10k) ultimate 6dof i saw on yt is the motionXP platform, but you basically need a separate room for it due to its size. Also, I don't think that the stroke and angles are overkill there because, with combined axes, you actually get much less movement and the point is to achieve more prolonged effects. Any thoughts?
That is a great question and I've looked at it and at first glance it looks pretty cool. Lets be clear on the price, so the base DIY kit where you put it all together yourself (including actuators) is over $11,400 and if you want the actuators built out for you (but you still have to put the frame together) it will cost $15,800 currently. Now you get 32 degrees of roll and 35 pitch for that but lets compare that to the H6 which currently costs $7,150 and comes mostly assembled like the $15k version of the motionXP. So for about half the price you get half the movement at about 17 degrees on the DOF H6. So based on that point, you are right the "ultimate" might be the motionXP. A couple concerns I have with it however... It looks like a lot of the actuator parts are 3D printed and I worry about the durability of that platform. It doesn't help my concerns that they also include "spare parts" with their rigs which is another indicator they may have brakeage issues fairly rapidly. Now I don't know that for sure, but it certainly would be something I'd look into because I know on my H6, the movement get very violent from time to time and I'm thankful I have metal instead of 3D printed parts on the key pieces. The other issue I've noticed is it doesn't look like the movement software is taking advantage of all 6 DOF. Now this CERTAINLY could just be the way they have it tuned but I noticed in this video th-cam.com/video/a0i66QUoykU/w-d-xo.html when they take off it just tilts back vs. using surge to move back linearly too. I know a 6DOF setup is very complex to move properly and I'm not sure if it is a limit with FlyPT Mover or just the way they have it tuned. It would be similar to me using the "enhanced g-force" setting on my rig which totally defeats the purpose of a 6 DOF. SO in closing, I'm actually interested in the motionXP, I just don't have the space (like you mention) or the money either realistically. They are certainly a company I will keep an eye on, but for now I think I trust the DOF Reality products a little more after having used mine a lot for over 3 years now with minimal issues. Thanks for watching and let me know what you think.
@@GYGOtv On yt the profile is set to rotation, but it can be configured however you like-FlyPT is very versatile but also complex. All mechanically moving parts are laser-cut steel, only things like covers and handles are 3D printed. There’s an option for spare parts just incase, but in my opinion, that’s unnecessary this thing is rock solid and it has a warranty. The full assembly is pretty easy, it's like IKEA and comes with a thorough tutorial videos, i have no concerns about that. However the space requirements can be a bit of a problem - 2.2m x 2.2m plus some room from the walls, realistically you need about 3x3 meters. They have a Discord where many owners share their experiences and profiles and they're very responsive if you have any questions.
@@br1ella129 Thanks for the info, glad to hear lots of my concerns are unjustified. So the size would certainly be a concern because of the room you would need and also it will probably be a bit of a hassle to get in and out. Usually those bigger rigs you have to climb into and wait for them to rise up, etc. That is one thing I really like about my H6, I can just crawl in and out easily if I forgot to turn on basestations, or a software glitch happens etc. I am interested in a large simulator like this maybe someday, I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks for the follow-up.
You can provide your own chair on a YawVR and people have cut out for ejection handles and sticks. You can limit the motion range down to the level of n H3 and with the same tuned profile should be pretty close to the same experience. It's nice to be able to have more available if you want it. You can use a t-slot frame if you want to build off it however you want.
@@KydDynoMyte_ That makes sense, so do you have a lot of extra weight behind the seat like I see in lots of the videos online? Really appreciate your info, great to have a Yaw user to clarify things.
its true YAW needs to create a wheel and pedal frame without flex…. but honestly, my yaw 3 beats my 5 DOF actuaror system and my friends P6 for fun factor. It’s funny how we’re using it all the time now. (i built my own pedal and wheel mount)
it does have a heave component coming…and 3dof independent motors -actuator, and hex systems are not independent so honestly feels like 6 dof… I’m not affiliated in anyway
@@mikesaini5258 I'm glad you are enjoying it, I'm glad you agree that motion is a pretty big deal and are seeing that first hand yourself! I have a hard time imagining the Yaw3 being better than a P6 but I believe you for sure. I just know I wouldn't trade my H6 for one. Thanks for taking the time to watch our short little video. :)
@@mikesaini5258 Ahh I see, yes that will make a difference, also in how you have the P6 tuned for motion is a HUGE deal as well. I just can't imagine not having the 6 DOF's, they add so much. Thanks for the update.
Thank you so much!!! I think this is my first Super Thanks!!! so a SUPER THANKS to you. Every donation helps us continue to do what we do here at GYGO. Glad you are enjoying our work.
@@GYGOtv Put this one up on the IL2 Motion forum thread, it is the best overview I have seen in a long time. I would be interested to hear Jeff describe how different he thinks the motion is for flight in his current actuator system than a DoF Reality H6? I have watched some videos where the actuator systems seem to "jerk" in flight when compared to your videos in the H6? My guess that there are very few people who have actual experience in both systems, so Jeff is probably one of the best sources, especially since many of us use his profiles.
@@VariVR Well I know Jeff didn't have the newer SFU's or No Cog Reducers on his original P6 and I think that is why he likes the actuator systems, they are capable of being super smooth as long as you tune them correctly. Probably any jerkiness you saw was from abrupt or aggressive tuning profiles. Anyway, I'll see if I can get Jeff to chime in here and you can get his take on it. Thanks for the comments.
@@VariVR Happy you like the video! Yep, as Mark said, it really comes down to the motion profile. You can have a $30k motion platform, but if the motion profile is setup incorrectly, you will get jarring/jerking motion. Often times, people will set them up for extreme motion when you first get a platform, but after awhile, you tend to turn it down and make it more smooth. Actuators should be very smooth when setup correctly, so it's likely just tuned wrong and the limits aren't set correctly. :)
@@jeffweaver7199 Thank you Jeff for helping all of this make sense. Quick question if you feel it is appropriate to answer (completely fine if not): The upgrade cost from an H3 to an H6 is currently approximately $3750. Knowing that you have experienced both systems, would you personally spend that amount to upgrade to a DoFR H6 system or would you invest that toward building a 6DoF actuator system (eracing-lab) down the line? Asking for a friend...😆
Mark I also want to mention there is a 6DOF "Steward-like" motion platform from a new kid on the block called Motion XP. They have 6DOF containing actuators with a HUUUGE stroke(over 6200mm!) and works with FlyPT Mover. Price is $10K for the kit. Maybe you or Jeff can check it out and let us know what you think?
I've seen that before and it looks cool but I worry about the size and it would be a pain to get in and out of for sure. I think with that much stroke you are going to have some aggressive movements because the thing has to move so far so quick (kind of the point Jeff talks about in the video 39:55). You notice they have a lot of weight keeping it on the floor so You'd want to have a strong floor to put it on too. Don't get me wrong, love the idea of 35 degrees of pitch, but the H6 is much better suited for the home and still does half that at 17 degrees. I'll try to get Jeff on here to give his thoughts as well. Great idea and I certainly can see the interest in it... I just worry it might be overkill for the home environment.
Thanks for your answer. Where exactly is the discount code ? It says "Due to Changes in Policy the discount code is now found within the latest DOF Reality Video on this Channel.": But this is the most recent video right ?
Motion platform movement can't match visual movement of the plane to trick human brain. To simulate pitch down (plane descent ) and trick human brain you don't move platform in the down direction and hang in chair, since for human acceleration and gravity feels the same. So motion platform does quick tilt down then pitch up when your virtual plane accelerate in a dive. Same as plane accelerate in straight line , motion platform should pitch up. When you roll , motion platform does pitch up and yaw but for a brief moment when bank angle is achieved motion platform straightens up but virtual plane still is in roll. This of course work best in VR since you can't see environment to prevent getting contradictory visual feedback from real world environment. th-cam.com/video/pfTdJD2OakA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=d4yAUyLSGMSoNyu7
That is a great video explaining how motion works, I've seen it before. I think the part you are missing is that the movement doesn't always match instead of "can't". Most of what that video talks about is implemented in the software that drives our home simulators. Additionally, In SRS for example you can choose either angle or rate for your roll axis as they explain in the video you linked. That way people can set it how they want. For me when I'm dogfighting I use the "rate" for turns but I keep the pitch on angle because I use that cue to know what orientation my fighter is in when I'm looking around trying to find a bandit. It might not match what they say to do in the video but I use that angle cue to help me keep from driving into the ocean. As for the last part of the video where they talk about introducing surge forward along with pitch to add the extra little effect to help with accel/decel. The issue with that part of the video explaining the movement is that it mixes (or blends) axis together for that effect and unfortunately we can't do the same with our home simulators (at least from what I know). SO in our simulators the program has to either use Pitch to simulate the G-Force OR it can use Surge, but it can't do both at the same time like they show in your video. Other that that, our home simulators pretty much do what that video says it should do. Thanks for the comment.
Watched some of your previous content but didnt see the following comparison: At a similar cost, whats the + and - of the DOF vs the motion rig that Limitless VR is using.
So it looks like limitless has an actuator system, 3 DOF from what I can tell (pitch, roll and heave). Most of what Jeff talks about as actuator systems applies to Limitless' Motion Rig. Not sure what his costs but basically if it is like the H3, the big difference would be his heave to the H3's Yaw. As for his vs. mine, I have a full 6 DOF will all the axis. Hope that answers the question and thanks for watching our video.
Sure, I think we tried to cover that in the video as well, using DOF Reality as the talking point but really it would apply to any motion simulator that moves in those degrees of freedom. 3 DOF certainly is good, I'm just telling you racing with 6 DOF is Amazing! Thanks for the comment.
I've determined to not waste the extra money or time or parts upgrading, so I would like to go straight for a 6 DOF flight rig, but I still need a bigger sale than I've seen so far. I appreciate the 5% code, but it doesn't get me there.
Good luck, hopefully there might be something around Black Friday... If not, I wouldn't wait too long as prices always seem to be going up across the board.
I'm writing questions or comments as I'm watching so I don't forget, so forgive me if the answer is further on in the video: Is threadlock not the answer to keeping your nuts and bolts secure?
The DOF Reality Units come with nylock nuts on the important parts and really I only "loctite'd" (blue) the stuff that was critical because I will change out HOTAS equipment and the like in the future. Even with all that it is still good piece of mind just to put a wrench on everything I'd say every 6 months. Mine are seldom loose but once in awhile I'll get one that needs just a little twist. It more importantly gets you examining the rig because you will want to watch out for wear and collisions that might need to be addressed. These things don't need massive maintenance, but it is a big moving mechanical machine so treat it as such. Hope that answers your question.
I have been building my own motion (+ G systems) sims (Retired Defence Systems Engineer) since 2012. My simulator feels dead without motion/active harness.
AWESOME, always envious of you smart folks out there! I'm not familar with that system, how many DOF is it? What do you do in it (flight or racing). Would love to know more about it and thanks for watching.
@@GYGOtv Oh, the '+G systems' is not a system in itself, but either an added active harness, or other active pressure system, as one of the biggest issues with most motion systems is that they don't handle 'extended forces' well. I have always built my own motion systems and cockpits - (although recently purchase a QS-BT1). I actually use to build and sell active harnesses systems well before they were commercially available to the public. All the best.
@@seattime4075 Ahh thanks for the explanation. Ya a motorized harness is on my list.. I just need better telemetry for flight because from what I can see right now the harness is mostly for racing applications. I would love to have a belt tighten up as I fly inverted, I think it would really add to the experience! So what kind of motion platform did you build?
It's why I purchased the QS-BT1 as it comes with its own specialised harness software, which works happily in parallel with my motion software (unfortunately the BT1 is not cheap). My motion platform is unlike anything you have seen. If I get some time,may try to later describe it.
Hello, I love your videos and likely will order an h3 this week, but I have one concern. How future proof is it with dof reality being based in ukraine ? Their is a possibility, that when russia wins the war, dof reality will not exist anymore. I think they produce in ukraine. If some parts get broken, is there a way to easily replace them without dof reality ? Thats my only concern. Whats your opnion about this topic ? Maybe you have asked them already this
No issues there, even when the war broke out they managed to keep things working well. DOF also has operations around the world... HQ is in Canada, and they do a lot in Poland now so I wouldn't worry about that aspect of buying one. I'm sure if something were to happen in Ukraine, they would just move the talent they have there, elsewhere as well. Don't forget we have a 5% discount code that will also help the channel if you decide to buy one. The code is in the bottom of the video. Welcome to this amazing world of motion!
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9miVG2xT5jY/mqdefault.jpg)
For anyone on the fence regarding a motion platform, I was in your exact spot 11 months ago, I ended up going with the DOF H6 (based on the opinions of these two professionals) I have absolutely zero regrets, Mark and Jeff are 1000% correct with respect to racing with 6DOF, the immersion factor is crazy. (no disrespect to H3 owners, that is an awesome platform).
I have had several friends try my rig....every single person has responded the same way, "the realism is AMAZING" !
If you can afford it, YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT !!!
Thank you Mark and Jeff for all that you do for this community !
Well thank you Danny for continuing to support the channel on Patreon and also being a proponent to the power of these amazing machines. Appreciate you my friend!
I’m only on the fence purchasing an H6 because I’m a little intimidated with motion compensation and software setup. I anticipate a learning curve but how was your experience with the technical setup?
@@jackassery4656 I know you asked Danny about this, but I wanted to make sure you saw our video on Motion Compensation th-cam.com/video/NYPJjTfguws/w-d-xo.html... Maybe it will alleviate some of your concern.
As someone who has yet to buy a motion rig but plan to sometime next year, I have to say in all honesty this was one of the most INCREDIBLE podcasts I've ever had the pleasure of listening to! You guys made this discussion about motion sims really enjoyable. Thank you! This topic certainly doesn't get covered enough. Whether you're on the fence about the DOF Reality, a D-Box, PT Actuator, etc, there was a WEALTH of good information in this episode. Mark I really hope you bring Jeff back for another episode on this topic. Great job guys! 👍👍👍👍
Well thank you for taking the time to watch it, and I REALLY appreciate the kind words. If you do decide to go with a system that uses SRS, Jeff and I have a few other videos on the channel that talk about the motion profile tuning and how to do that as well. Part 1 th-cam.com/video/pzi8G7T9p7A/w-d-xo.html and Part 2 th-cam.com/video/LSStkqpIX_M/w-d-xo.html If you enjoyed this, you will probably enjoy that as well. Jeff has become somewhat of a regular so don't be surprised if we do something like this again down the road. If you have any other questions about this stuff, let me know. And we do have that discount code in the video if you decide to choose a DOF Reality. Thanks again for the comment.
Wow this is such a valuable video guys, this is exactly what viewers need to help navigate the various options out there. Great content 😊
Thanks for watching! Nice to get complimented from someone who I think makes incredible videos themselves! Maybe if you are interested, we can have a 3 person discussion about motion simulators someday down the road. Would love to get you on the channel and introduce you to more of my viewers! BTW is your rig a 3DOF? I've had some people ask me about it and I was guessing based on what I saw on your channel.
@@GYGOtv Oh thanks mate :). I would love to do a stream with you guys. Yes mine is 4 actuators from Eracing Labs, that makes it 3DOF. I think our viewers are begging for us to do a COOP stream in the Mechs hahaha.... now that would be epic.
@@LimitlessHorizonVRSimrigs I'll have to dust off my Mech skills but that could be fun!
Thank you Mark and Jeff, we have needed this kind of overview for a long time and I appreciate you putting it together for us.
Right now, I am deciding whether to switch out my DoF P3 motors for the new Hr Flight motors or save that for some of the other upgrade options you have been discussing here.
How old of a system do you have? I think with the new No Cog Reducers it would be worth it and if your system is older you also get the new encoders instead of the sensor for higher resolution of position and you would also get the braking system if you don't have that already. I assume you at least have SFU gears? BTW Thanks again for the donation!
@@GYGOtv My P3 is about 11 months old, so I think it has all the latest regarding the motors except the new reduction for smoothness. I do notice the "cogging" but it hasn't been a big distraction for me, but I have seen others on FB say they really like the new motors for flight. So, I have been thinking about switching out my P motors for 3 Hr motors. Based on my email discussion with support, they now recommend to replace all 3 motors for compatibility, so total cost would be about $1200 with shipping if I hang onto the P motors, or $800 if I return them. It also seems they will have the new P reduction motors available in mid December ($500 per for the Pr vs. $300 for the Hr). Do you have any thoughts based on what your are hearing in the community?
Very happy to buy you a beer or two for everything you do here!
@@VariVR Well thanks again for the Super Thanks donation! SO, you probably do have all the updates if your system is that new (except the no-cog of course). Honestly I don't think you need to upgrade the yaw motor unless you plan to eventually do the 6-DOF. As for switching over to the H from the P, I never recommend the P unless it is an arcade setting. Now I dont' know if the new P-motors are going to have some additional advantage I don't know about but I haven't heard anything like that yet. I guess it depends on how big a hurry you are in. The cool thing is I think when all is said and done, this new version should be the holy grail of motion sims so I don't anticipate any major improvements like the No-Cog Reducers for awhile. Have you considered just moving up to an H6?
@@GYGOtv Thanks Mark, I originally went with the P3 because it was on sale there is some information on the DoFR website that reflects a little better response time. However, as you say, everything I have seen since then from users seems to indicate no practical difference for home users with the SFUs. So, I think I will likely go with the Hr motors if I decide to switch out, which as you note, will give me a less expensive path to a 6DoF rig down the line (not ready to make that leap yet as I am still wondering a bit about the actuator alternative - I see Jeff's comment here too). I appreciate your insight on all of this!
Thank you for this analysis :-)
Thank you for taking the time to watch it... hope you thought it was time well spent!
That's correct: 6 "axis" (proper technical term) of control in our universe is all we know for a single node. When people claim you can have more axis, it's only by adding additional nodes like in a robotic arm with added joints or similar mechanical device on a single machine. However, the holy grail is all 6 axis with 3 in "Full 360 Degrees" he, he, he!!!! (I would get sick from that, LOL! However that crazy ball simulator would be awesome for a few minutes! Plus would need to sell my whole ranch to acquire one, LOL!) Being a retired robotics guy, been eyeing the DOF Reality systems. Getting too old to scratch build a system myself anymore! No problem with assembly or tweaking on it over time though. After my 5090 purchase, looking for the final item: The motion Pit later in 2025 or sooner if they have a promotional discount anytime soon. I was considering either a H6 or even a P6! I was waiting for DOF to upgrade to better motors with ball/screw, (mini actuator) design and real optical encoders. Looks like they added it now? I would rather pay extra for a stronger frame and drivetrain setup. (I'm 6'3" and 240Lbs.) (One thing I don't do is weld and don't want frame problems down the road, or having to take it to a local shop every couple years.) I can't tell any difference in frame design or motor drivetrain differences between the P and H models via available on-line photos. The only spec difference is P6 has faster top speed/travel times. (Odd they would both show the same torque ratings with 2 different speeds, must be a linkage or gearing torque limiting issue? I wonder what other differences they have between the 2 models before making a final purchase decision. This system is the only brand that is in the price range I want to pay for too, others are just too much for the time I would spend on it but I really want the full 6 "axis" control system, you both convinced me, LOL! Thanks for the video!
Thanks for taking the time to write such a long comment, always appreciate those of you who have expertise in advanced fields like you do! So one thing you will want to make sure you do is buy the unit from the "Flight" or "Heli" tab because those come with the latest "No-Cog Reducers" that smooth out very slow rotations in the rig. As for the P-Series, Everything is the same except the motors which are a bit more durable. Technically the P-Motors are faster like you say, but in practice the motion is basically the same on both. I highly recommend the H Series unless you are running it 8 hours a day/ 7 days a week. Hope that helps, and be sure to use my discount code to save 5% and help the channel out too. The code is in the video at the bottom. Please let me know if you have any other questions and welcome to this awesome world of Motion!
@@GYGOtv Thank you for these tips, Plus reminding me you have a discount code too! Good simming out there!!!!!
@@bakzetary3145 You are welcome, let me know if I can help you with any other questions.
thanks mark for your content it is always top notch my friend.
Thank you, always happy to see a comment from you. Appreciate the longtime support of my work and the channel. Glad we are keeping up with expectations! More to follow so stay tuned.
@@GYGOtv your very welcome by the way do you know if jeff has any new profiles on the SRS for racing ? i really need to take the time and explore some profiles for racing or flying but i would like to use jeffs or even yours if you have any.
@@richardPalmisano A link to mine are in the description and you can go to Jeff's website to see all his (he moved them there so he has a backup to all his SRS profiles) go to www.simmotiontuning.com/
Great video mate....always good to hear what Jeff and you have to say....BTW, just realised why I was not being thrown around like you were on my flight a couple of weeks ago....I checked today before the flight and found that TURBULENCE was switched off in MSFS2020....set it to "realistic" and boy was I being thrown around this morning with the 35knts of wind I had dialed into my custom weather for the flight....but felt great at the same time and, as always, stepped out of the rig after the flight with huge smile on my dial.....
Thanks for watching!!! ya it was the most extreme turbulence I've felt in the rig... I think you heard me grunting as it tossed me up and down and side to side. Anyway, glad you liked the video and look forward to flying with you again someday. Cheers!
Great video guys, just finished watching and it's making this fence I'm sitting on more and more uncomfortable 😂
Thanks for watching the whole thing... you are exactly the person who we made this for... Come jump on in, the water is fine!
Another great video. You have been busy! After listening to You, Jeff and so many others on Discord, I wonder if it boils down to the type of simmer you are. What I mean is; If you feel that VR, HOTAS, rudder pedals, and FFB Steering wheels are essential, then go for a motion rig, but if you are satisfied with a joy stick and only sim occasionally, it’s probably not worth the expense. Maybe it’s down to if you are willing to accept the illusion to be immersed, or expect to be immersed.
I think Jeff put it right in the video 59:57 if you have ever dreamed of going down to the local Air Force Base and jumping in one of their simulators or going to a racing team to drive one of theirs then Motion is probably right for you. I'd probably say if you need to sim in VR because you can't do flat screen anymore, then you are probably a candidate for motion... if the PS5 and a controller on your TV is enough then you probably don't need one. Great comment and thanks for watching.
I think the most reasonable priced(€10k) ultimate 6dof i saw on yt is the motionXP platform, but you basically need a separate room for it due to its size. Also, I don't think that the stroke and angles are overkill there because, with combined axes, you actually get much less movement and the point is to achieve more prolonged effects.
Any thoughts?
That is a great question and I've looked at it and at first glance it looks pretty cool. Lets be clear on the price, so the base DIY kit where you put it all together yourself (including actuators) is over $11,400 and if you want the actuators built out for you (but you still have to put the frame together) it will cost $15,800 currently. Now you get 32 degrees of roll and 35 pitch for that but lets compare that to the H6 which currently costs $7,150 and comes mostly assembled like the $15k version of the motionXP. So for about half the price you get half the movement at about 17 degrees on the DOF H6. So based on that point, you are right the "ultimate" might be the motionXP. A couple concerns I have with it however... It looks like a lot of the actuator parts are 3D printed and I worry about the durability of that platform. It doesn't help my concerns that they also include "spare parts" with their rigs which is another indicator they may have brakeage issues fairly rapidly. Now I don't know that for sure, but it certainly would be something I'd look into because I know on my H6, the movement get very violent from time to time and I'm thankful I have metal instead of 3D printed parts on the key pieces. The other issue I've noticed is it doesn't look like the movement software is taking advantage of all 6 DOF. Now this CERTAINLY could just be the way they have it tuned but I noticed in this video th-cam.com/video/a0i66QUoykU/w-d-xo.html when they take off it just tilts back vs. using surge to move back linearly too. I know a 6DOF setup is very complex to move properly and I'm not sure if it is a limit with FlyPT Mover or just the way they have it tuned. It would be similar to me using the "enhanced g-force" setting on my rig which totally defeats the purpose of a 6 DOF. SO in closing, I'm actually interested in the motionXP, I just don't have the space (like you mention) or the money either realistically. They are certainly a company I will keep an eye on, but for now I think I trust the DOF Reality products a little more after having used mine a lot for over 3 years now with minimal issues. Thanks for watching and let me know what you think.
@@GYGOtv On yt the profile is set to rotation, but it can be configured however you like-FlyPT is very versatile but also complex. All mechanically moving parts are laser-cut steel, only things like covers and handles are 3D printed. There’s an option for spare parts just incase, but in my opinion, that’s unnecessary this thing is rock solid and it has a warranty. The full assembly is pretty easy, it's like IKEA and comes with a thorough tutorial videos, i have no concerns about that. However the space requirements can be a bit of a problem - 2.2m x 2.2m plus some room from the walls, realistically you need about 3x3 meters. They have a Discord where many owners share their experiences and profiles and they're very responsive if you have any questions.
@@br1ella129 Thanks for the info, glad to hear lots of my concerns are unjustified. So the size would certainly be a concern because of the room you would need and also it will probably be a bit of a hassle to get in and out. Usually those bigger rigs you have to climb into and wait for them to rise up, etc. That is one thing I really like about my H6, I can just crawl in and out easily if I forgot to turn on basestations, or a software glitch happens etc. I am interested in a large simulator like this maybe someday, I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks for the follow-up.
You can provide your own chair on a YawVR and people have cut out for ejection handles and sticks. You can limit the motion range down to the level of n H3 and with the same tuned profile should be pretty close to the same experience. It's nice to be able to have more available if you want it. You can use a t-slot frame if you want to build off it however you want.
Thanks for the info! So don't you have to be extra careful of the weight and balance to keep everything working well?
@@GYGOtv Trying to keep a good balance is to help from overworking the pitch motor so it is doesn't overheat.
@@KydDynoMyte_ That makes sense, so do you have a lot of extra weight behind the seat like I see in lots of the videos online? Really appreciate your info, great to have a Yaw user to clarify things.
YawVR now sells an add-on that adds 15° more degrees to the original front pitch and takes it away from the extreme back pitch.
Great info to know. So how does it keep from hitting the floor, does it raise the whole unit up?
@@GYGOtv It's basically a wedge under the seat adding the 15°. I think it might come with all new units but can also be added to existing.
@@KydDynoMyte_ Interesting, thanks for the info... Hopefully that solves that issue and they can address some of the others.
its true YAW needs to create a wheel and pedal frame without flex…. but honestly, my yaw 3 beats my 5 DOF actuaror system and my friends P6 for fun factor. It’s funny how we’re using it all the time now. (i built my own pedal and wheel mount)
it does have a heave component coming…and 3dof independent motors -actuator, and hex systems are not independent so honestly feels like 6 dof… I’m not affiliated in anyway
@@mikesaini5258 I'm glad you are enjoying it, I'm glad you agree that motion is a pretty big deal and are seeing that first hand yourself! I have a hard time imagining the Yaw3 being better than a P6 but I believe you for sure. I just know I wouldn't trade my H6 for one. Thanks for taking the time to watch our short little video. :)
@@GYGOtv the extreme and independent movements rival the p6 .. we don’t have the latest motors on it though
@@mikesaini5258 Ahh I see, yes that will make a difference, also in how you have the P6 tuned for motion is a HUGE deal as well. I just can't imagine not having the 6 DOF's, they add so much. Thanks for the update.
Thanks!
Thank you so much!!! I think this is my first Super Thanks!!! so a SUPER THANKS to you. Every donation helps us continue to do what we do here at GYGO. Glad you are enjoying our work.
@@GYGOtv Put this one up on the IL2 Motion forum thread, it is the best overview I have seen in a long time. I would be interested to hear Jeff describe how different he thinks the motion is for flight in his current actuator system than a DoF Reality H6? I have watched some videos where the actuator systems seem to "jerk" in flight when compared to your videos in the H6? My guess that there are very few people who have actual experience in both systems, so Jeff is probably one of the best sources, especially since many of us use his profiles.
@@VariVR Well I know Jeff didn't have the newer SFU's or No Cog Reducers on his original P6 and I think that is why he likes the actuator systems, they are capable of being super smooth as long as you tune them correctly. Probably any jerkiness you saw was from abrupt or aggressive tuning profiles. Anyway, I'll see if I can get Jeff to chime in here and you can get his take on it. Thanks for the comments.
@@VariVR Happy you like the video! Yep, as Mark said, it really comes down to the motion profile. You can have a $30k motion platform, but if the motion profile is setup incorrectly, you will get jarring/jerking motion. Often times, people will set them up for extreme motion when you first get a platform, but after awhile, you tend to turn it down and make it more smooth. Actuators should be very smooth when setup correctly, so it's likely just tuned wrong and the limits aren't set correctly. :)
@@jeffweaver7199 Thank you Jeff for helping all of this make sense. Quick question if you feel it is appropriate to answer (completely fine if not): The upgrade cost from an H3 to an H6 is currently approximately $3750. Knowing that you have experienced both systems, would you personally spend that amount to upgrade to a DoFR H6 system or would you invest that toward building a 6DoF actuator system (eracing-lab) down the line? Asking for a friend...😆
Mark I also want to mention there is a 6DOF "Steward-like" motion platform from a new kid on the block called Motion XP. They have 6DOF containing actuators with a HUUUGE stroke(over 6200mm!) and works with FlyPT Mover. Price is $10K for the kit. Maybe you or Jeff can check it out and let us know what you think?
I've seen that before and it looks cool but I worry about the size and it would be a pain to get in and out of for sure. I think with that much stroke you are going to have some aggressive movements because the thing has to move so far so quick (kind of the point Jeff talks about in the video 39:55). You notice they have a lot of weight keeping it on the floor so You'd want to have a strong floor to put it on too. Don't get me wrong, love the idea of 35 degrees of pitch, but the H6 is much better suited for the home and still does half that at 17 degrees. I'll try to get Jeff on here to give his thoughts as well. Great idea and I certainly can see the interest in it... I just worry it might be overkill for the home environment.
Thanks for your answer. Where exactly is the discount code ? It says "Due to Changes in Policy the discount code is now found within the latest DOF Reality Video on this Channel.": But this is the most recent video right ?
Ya, look at the bottom right of the screen and you'll see it.
Motion platform movement can't match visual movement of the plane to trick human brain.
To simulate pitch down (plane descent ) and trick human brain you don't move platform in the down direction and hang in chair, since for human acceleration and gravity feels the same. So motion platform does quick tilt down then pitch up when your virtual plane accelerate in a dive. Same as plane accelerate in straight line , motion platform should pitch up. When you roll , motion platform does pitch up and yaw but for a brief moment when bank angle is achieved motion platform straightens up but virtual plane still is in roll.
This of course work best in VR since you can't see environment to prevent getting contradictory visual feedback from real world environment.
th-cam.com/video/pfTdJD2OakA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=d4yAUyLSGMSoNyu7
That is a great video explaining how motion works, I've seen it before. I think the part you are missing is that the movement doesn't always match instead of "can't". Most of what that video talks about is implemented in the software that drives our home simulators. Additionally, In SRS for example you can choose either angle or rate for your roll axis as they explain in the video you linked. That way people can set it how they want. For me when I'm dogfighting I use the "rate" for turns but I keep the pitch on angle because I use that cue to know what orientation my fighter is in when I'm looking around trying to find a bandit. It might not match what they say to do in the video but I use that angle cue to help me keep from driving into the ocean. As for the last part of the video where they talk about introducing surge forward along with pitch to add the extra little effect to help with accel/decel. The issue with that part of the video explaining the movement is that it mixes (or blends) axis together for that effect and unfortunately we can't do the same with our home simulators (at least from what I know). SO in our simulators the program has to either use Pitch to simulate the G-Force OR it can use Surge, but it can't do both at the same time like they show in your video. Other that that, our home simulators pretty much do what that video says it should do. Thanks for the comment.
Watched some of your previous content but didnt see the following comparison: At a similar cost, whats the + and - of the DOF vs the motion rig that Limitless VR is using.
So it looks like limitless has an actuator system, 3 DOF from what I can tell (pitch, roll and heave). Most of what Jeff talks about as actuator systems applies to Limitless' Motion Rig. Not sure what his costs but basically if it is like the H3, the big difference would be his heave to the H3's Yaw. As for his vs. mine, I have a full 6 DOF will all the axis. Hope that answers the question and thanks for watching our video.
It also depends on what your sim choice is gonna be. I have e racing labrs mega+ actuators 3 dof is realistic and reliable. Roughly 3 k.
Sure, I think we tried to cover that in the video as well, using DOF Reality as the talking point but really it would apply to any motion simulator that moves in those degrees of freedom. 3 DOF certainly is good, I'm just telling you racing with 6 DOF is Amazing! Thanks for the comment.
I've determined to not waste the extra money or time or parts upgrading, so I would like to go straight for a 6 DOF flight rig, but I still need a bigger sale than I've seen so far. I appreciate the 5% code, but it doesn't get me there.
Good luck, hopefully there might be something around Black Friday... If not, I wouldn't wait too long as prices always seem to be going up across the board.
I'm writing questions or comments as I'm watching so I don't forget, so forgive me if the answer is further on in the video:
Is threadlock not the answer to keeping your nuts and bolts secure?
The DOF Reality Units come with nylock nuts on the important parts and really I only "loctite'd" (blue) the stuff that was critical because I will change out HOTAS equipment and the like in the future. Even with all that it is still good piece of mind just to put a wrench on everything I'd say every 6 months. Mine are seldom loose but once in awhile I'll get one that needs just a little twist. It more importantly gets you examining the rig because you will want to watch out for wear and collisions that might need to be addressed. These things don't need massive maintenance, but it is a big moving mechanical machine so treat it as such. Hope that answers your question.
I have been building my own motion (+ G systems) sims (Retired Defence Systems Engineer) since 2012. My simulator feels dead without motion/active harness.
AWESOME, always envious of you smart folks out there! I'm not familar with that system, how many DOF is it? What do you do in it (flight or racing). Would love to know more about it and thanks for watching.
@@GYGOtv Oh, the '+G systems' is not a system in itself, but either an added active harness, or other active pressure system, as one of the biggest issues with most motion systems is that they don't handle 'extended forces' well. I have always built my own motion systems and cockpits - (although recently purchase a QS-BT1). I actually use to build and sell active harnesses systems well before they were commercially available to the public. All the best.
@@seattime4075 Ahh thanks for the explanation. Ya a motorized harness is on my list.. I just need better telemetry for flight because from what I can see right now the harness is mostly for racing applications. I would love to have a belt tighten up as I fly inverted, I think it would really add to the experience! So what kind of motion platform did you build?
It's why I purchased the QS-BT1 as it comes with its own specialised harness software, which works happily in parallel with my motion software (unfortunately the BT1 is not cheap). My motion platform is unlike anything you have seen. If I get some time,may try to later describe it.
@@seattime4075 Looking forward to it!
Hello, I love your videos and likely will order an h3 this week, but I have one concern. How future proof is it with dof reality being based in ukraine ? Their is a possibility, that when russia wins the war, dof reality will not exist anymore. I think they produce in ukraine. If some parts get broken, is there a way to easily replace them without dof reality ? Thats my only concern. Whats your opnion about this topic ? Maybe you have asked them already this
No issues there, even when the war broke out they managed to keep things working well. DOF also has operations around the world... HQ is in Canada, and they do a lot in Poland now so I wouldn't worry about that aspect of buying one. I'm sure if something were to happen in Ukraine, they would just move the talent they have there, elsewhere as well. Don't forget we have a 5% discount code that will also help the channel if you decide to buy one. The code is in the bottom of the video. Welcome to this amazing world of motion!