God Seems To Be OK With Slavery | The Atheist Experience: Throwback
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My 'moral arbiter' is my conscience, empathy and sense of social responsibility. I'd rather anyone who needs to be told that murder, theft and rape is evil, under threat of eternal punishment, kept their distance from me and mine.
So what? How is your 'conscience' any more valid than a pedo or NAZI's conscience. It's not. Without God, there is no objective moral truth or reality for 'your conscience' to be right or wrong about. Atheism is fatal to any coherent morality. Atheists consistently lying about the nature of this fatal problem won't make it go away. You have no answer.
I endorse this entire comment
@@Lord_Don Who cares if you 'endorse' a meaningless comment? Without God, all things are morally permissible - no matter what you (or a child grapist) thinks.
You cannot justify any coherent reason why the child graper of mass-murderer is actually wrong. You have no objective referent.
@@JimCastleberrykeeps failing to show that a God does, would or could "cause objective moral truths to exist." And these alleged 'moral truths' did NOTHING to stop the Nazis. It was humans, with their flaws and varied views of right and wrong, who did that. Jim may find reality too messy to bear, but it is what it is regardless!
@@JimCastleberry Slavery is OK with your wonderful "God."
"God healed my broken back, and I know it was the God I believe in because I believe it was the God I believe in"
Circular reasoning 🤣
"You don't have a moral arbiter"
Neither do you. Just because you believe you have a god doesn't mean your God actually exists
belief is lack of evidence, no need to say just bc you believe. Faith doesn't prove shit. just wanted to point that out, so you don't provide a cushion toward theists.
Turning water into wine is no miracle, my Dad did it quite regularly. All you need besides water is fruit and yeast.
Confirmed, I've been doing it for 52 years.
Likewise... and I make beer too....
It was a trick done by the priests of the temple of Dionysus...so when they invented their god-man, early Christian writers showed that he could do the trick too.
The Dionysian priests used a clever system of sluices at the culmination of the festivals, which added wine from a hidden spigot into a flowing channel of water, which spewed out in front of an awed audience.
People in those days expected proof of a god's ability to do magic. The book Jesus the Magician, by Morton Smith, sheds light on this subject. 🎉
Also, most wineries didn't add yeast, they simply relied on natural yeasts carried on the air...
Well you need that and time, and that's always been the problem with atheists, believing in change over time! You can't show me one beverage turning into another kind of beverage, it must have been miraculous
Bro really said his broken back healed in 3 days and he has proof. And why hasn’t he been on any national or global news is the really mystery
Something tells me some parts of the story are hyperbole.
@@SleepyMatt-zzz Surely not!
x3 (I agree with you wholeheartedly)
This type of claim always reminds me of MPs The Holy Grail. The scene where Clease claims the supposedly turned him into a newt. And when everyone stops at this, he sheepishly says he got better. Just as rationalmas this guy.
When you pressure Christians on their "impossible healing" it starts turning out to be far less impressive than they make it out to be on first description. Then you start getting "well they operated" or "they put me on that medication". So they did to you what they'd do with anyone with that same condition, which then has a percentage of people that will recover with treatment anyway. (Yawn) But just five minutes ago it was an impossible miracle.
There was probably an incompetent nurse who told him that his back was broken when it wasn't. All knees are in pieces from birth and some never fuse completely ( a harmless condition called patella bipartita). I had knee pain from a fall and the nurse who saw the x-ray told me my knee was broken, but I later got to know that it was a harmless patella bipartita. It is quite possible that this was just a case of being misinfomed by a nurse.
It never ceases to amaze me the mental hoops people will jump through to justify irrationality and immorality while claiming to value truth and morality.
What's amazing is your gullibility. Slavery? Wrong. God freed the Hebrew slaves under Pharaoh. There's no rules for slaves; there's only rules for servants. Servants that have volunteered to be owned UNDER CERTAIN RULES in order to pay debt. Example: Jacob was a servant for 7 yrs just to pay for his wife. Then he was given the wrong wife, so he had to work another 7 yrs to get the wife he wanted.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that you can mistreat your servants. If a servant kills your brother or rape's your wife, you can beat them but not kill them. TRY TO LEARN about SLAVES vs SERVANTS. The culture of 3,500 yrs ago was a very different time compared to today. This SLAVERY GARBAGE by atheists is just THIS EASY to totally debunk.
@@owersmenblortsmon4731 But slavery is OK with your fake "God" Powers.
You lose again.
@@owersmenblortsmon4731
The Hebrews were never slaves in Egypt.
@@owersmenblortsmon4731 LIAR!!!!!
Exodus 21
Laws About Slaves
21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her[b] for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.
@@diogeneslamp8004 Wrong. There's plenty of evidence for the exodus. We know what the freed Hebrews did because you can take their directions right from the Bible and find the place they crossed the Red Sea and all the other land marks mentioned in the journey. There's hundreds of Jewish words in the stones around the mountain where Moses received the 10 Commandments. You've not did your research.
It is sad and infuriating to see people who so want to believe something, that they’ll embrace fallacies and ignore rational arguments
There is no argument. Slavery? Wrong. God freed the Hebrew slaves under Pharaoh. There's no rules for slaves; there's only rules for servants. Servants that have volunteered to be owned UNDER CERTAIN RULES in order to pay debt. Example: Jacob was a servant for 7 yrs just to pay for his wife. Then he was given the wrong wife, so he had to work another 7 yrs to get the wife he wanted.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that you can mistreat your servants. If a servant kills your brother or rape's your wife, you can beat them but not kill them. TRY TO LEARN about SLAVES vs SERVANTS. The culture of 3,500 yrs ago was a very different time compared to today. This SLAVERY GARBAGE by atheists is just THIS EASY to totally debunk.
"RATIONAL ARGUMENTS!" Screams the lost and clueless atheist fool that thinks star dust, moist rocks and mud puddles have the INTELLIGENCE, POWER, PURPOSE, RESOURCES AND MEANS to create/design LIFE, INTELLIGENCE, LOVE, CONSCIOUSNESS, MORALITY, the human being and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body :) Atheism is pure idiocy.
The religious cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. That's because atheism RUNS from "reality." I would add that as an atheist, you're bankrupt of RATIONAL/POSSIBLE causes for life, intelligence, consciousness, morality and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body.
Atheism has no RATIONAL/POSSIBLE, step by step atheist explanation for reality. That’s because there isn’t one. THINK ABOUT what you’re getting into w/ the cult of atheism. GET OUT NOW. I’ll help you find truth. Atheism has none.
This was painful. I'm surprised the call lasted that long. The caller was not prepared for this debate AT ALL.
He was cocky though and just ignored all the rebuttals only to then repeat what had been rebutted 😂
But I am. Slavery? Wrong. God freed the Hebrew slaves under Pharaoh. There's no rules for slaves; there's only rules for servants. Servants that have volunteered to be owned UNDER CERTAIN RULES in order to pay debt. Example: Jacob was a servant for 7 yrs just to pay for his wife. Then he was given the wrong wife, so he had to work another 7 yrs to get the wife he wanted.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that you can mistreat your servants. If a servant kills your brother or rape's your wife, you can beat them but not kill them. TRY TO LEARN about SLAVES vs SERVANTS. The culture of 3,500 yrs ago was a very different time compared to today. This SLAVERY GARBAGE by atheists is just THIS EASY to totally debunk.
@@kidslovesatan34 Just like most of them, they aren't listening to what the hosts are saying, they're just waiting for their turn to continue speaking.
Guess some people just don't ever grow up
What believers like Paul never seem to grasp is that even if we had the verified original manuscripts that doesn't mean that what they say is actually true.
"If is trying in the internet, its must be true"
It's in this book, so it must be true. Naïve.
Right? Even Herodotus started off with "This is what I heard" as he acknowledged that what he was writing down for the first time was nothing more than hearsay and oral tradition that was handed down over the generations. He gave wiggle room for what he was putting down might be wrong and might be changed in the future.
But that's what they believe, though. If it's in the bible, it has to be true. They've been brought up with that idea from birth that they absolutely can't fathom the idea that the bible is just an old book of stories.
@@dx1450 Yeah, its indoctrination. It happened to me. We get the warm and fuzzy bible stories at first and then later when we're older we get the darker ones and then are told that its okay because it was all "god's will."
In ancient Rome one of the dangers of owning slaves was being murdered by them.
Listening to Christian's trying to justify the Bible and the god of the Bible. Has made me a non believer. I can now say, "I once was lost...was blind but now I see."
GOD'S FAVOR and REWARD to IMPERFECT, SUFFERING, and DYING HUMAN BEINGS
GOD KNOWS
that his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in the BIBLE, in Revelation 21: 3, 4
is
NOT for LIARS, arrogant, cruel, hateful, and merciless persons on earth
but
ONLY for all persons who honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King
and believe his teachings too about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead"
as written in the BIBLE, in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26.
ATHEISM and RELIGIONS BRING and CAUSE the DISHONOR and ETERNAL DEATHS of MANKIND
Atheists
who are filling the world with the Satanic LIE and false claim that the BIBLE is not the "Word of God" and source of Truths but just a worthless book of lies, myths, fictions, fantasies, and fairy tales
and
Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Born Again Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions
who
are filling the world with the Satanic LIES and UNBIBLICAL teachings and doctrines about "Trinity", "hellfire", "Armageddon", "afterlife", "immortality of the souls", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
are obviously
NOT the loving, kind, and respectful persons who are worthy and deserving of GOD's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death
but
the LIARS, arrogant, cruel, and hateful persons on earth
who
can't be trusted with anything and are worthy and deserving of their own dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS, worthless and useless dusts on earth forever, never to be seen and heard ever again on the face of the earth.
TRUTHFUL, LOVING, KIND, and RESPECTFUL PERSONS WILL LIVE and EXIST on EARTH FOREVER
Thousands of years and nothing has changed, just the same....
The teaching of Jesus Christ about the "RESURRECTION of the DEAD"
is still
GOD's guarantee that truthful, loving, kind, and respectful persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Ruth, Naomi, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others
will
all be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can happily, abundantly, and peacefully live and exist on earth forever as subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of GOD and his Christ for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as GOD's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
@@jaflenbond7854 Blabla from insane mind.
@@jaflenbond7854 don't care, sucks you wasted time typist that
“Well I believe that slavery is bad/good because I had an injury and got better”.
This guy has no morals. He’s got dogmatic obedience to an assumed authority. The “authority” is people CLAIMING to speak for a “god”.
This guy sounds like he's yelling from somewhere down a rabbit hole that he got lost in.
The fundamental problem with this caller is that he doesn't understand that you can NOT quote the Bible to prove the Bible. Believers don't seem to get that. In fact, it seems to be the most common logical fallacy they commit. STOP quoting the Bible to prove that its content is true.
You can't quote the Bible to prove the Bible? Oh yes, you can. The Bible proves to be the Word of God w/ it's 2500 fulfilled prophecies regarding Jesus and the next 500 that Jesus hasn't fulfilled yet, NOT TO MENTION that the Bible has plenty of science in it’s 66 books. It mentions the effect of a nuke on the human body, the 2nd law, the fact that God created time/space/matter/energy, that circumcision is done on the 8th day, just like doctors do today. The earth is round and the fact that the Universe is expanding:
”He alone STRETCHES OUT the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.” Job 9:8.
” … who STRETCHES OUT the heavens like a curtain, and SPREADS THEM like a tent to live in.” - Isaiah 40:22
The Bible is all fact. However, hell is full of intelligent fools. Maybe you're just desperate to be the boss, instead of God; so you don't want God to exist. All atheists are liars (Romans 1:20), so I refuse to ask you any questions and hope for the truth.
The "ignorant people" of 3,500 yrs ago didn't have the knowledge to write what's in the Bible. The Bible is a record of observation that's written by God himself. If you think the Bible wasn't observed and documented by God, then you are poorly educated as there is more evidence for the Bible then any other historical writings.
God wrote the Bible & used mankind to pen it. You actually think God would depend on weak stupid humans to think up and print his Word? That we'd be judged on "Judgement Day" by what men wrote and not what God wrote? God promised that he'd preserve his Word and he did (Psalm 11:6-7). The Bible is proved by it's fulfillment or prophecy & the fact that no goat herder of 3,500 yrs ago could know the content we find in the Bible.
You have a lot to learn and you’re basically starting from the point of abject atheist idiocy.
@@brantsonoverton1367 Repeat after me: Bible is very poor, immoral, incoherrent book of stories and fairy tales with more than 550 direct contradictions. It's just a summary of lore, beliefs, and culture of iron age ignorant superstitious misogynistic violent immoral goat herders, who INVENTED GOD for explaining pure natural phenomena. God is just man made idea, nothing more.
@@Seticzech "FAIRY TALES!" Screams the atheist fool that believes the human being came from a rock, that morality came from a mud puddle, that life can come from a warm pond. Son, we have billions of mud puddles, rocks & warm ponds. NONE OF THEM has ever produced anything NEW. You're atheist desperation is noted. SORRY KID, but it’s blatant stupidity (atheism) to think that star dust, moist rocks and mud puddles have the INTELLIGENCE, POWER, PURPOSE AND MEANS to create/design LIFE, INTELLIGENCE, LOVE, CONSCIOUSNESS, MORALITY, the human being and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body :) Atheism is pure idiocy. You have a ton to learn. Thank God I'm here to teach you the facts, because you're totally lost & clueless.
@@brantsonoverton1367 Repeat after me: there is no such thing as god in reality. Clear evidence shows us that every isolated society created their own version of gods, their own verion of LOCAL FLOOD, their own version of Earth and universe. There are no two places in the world where people have the same gods, that clearly proves that EVERY IDEA OF EVERY GOD IS MAN MADE.
@@brantsonoverton1367 You're proven liar.
You know this could all be wrapped up if Jesus would just show up.
Right? Or god sticks his big apple-cheeked face through the clouds…
I really don't believe that he wasn't here in the 1st place, therefore he ain't coming back! Been expecting his return for centuries now😂 hahaha, hahaha, hahaha 😅
Oh, I know the apologetic! "He did show up, 2000 years ago. And God knows that if that wasn't enough for you, neither would a modern day appearance be enough for you. Or so I, the pastor, say. This is in no way a cop out. Trust me bro."
@@richardcooper9167 AKA Monty Python
Or u can just accept your position n stfu.....?🤔
So he went to the hospital for a broken back and Doctors only gave him pain medication over two days? No treatment at all? I'm not buying the BS this guy was trying to sell.
Yeah, he's lying.
If they can recreate the original Bible from all the copies, why hasn't anyone done it?
of course there is no original bible. There wasn't one until several centuries later when the canon was established
Classic Bible™ _"Taste the Testimony"_
They have my man. Ever here if the Vatican. It's not a myth. The old church fathers cherry picked what made the bible. All the originals are in the Vatican vault. You never knew this?
If prayer worked.why did you need to go the hospital in the first place? Why isnt your story? "I prayed and walked out of Church 2 days later'
This call is a lot funnier if you imagine Radar from M.A.S.H. on the line.
I love Jim's accent. 1:28 "Arbutter" 😂
I'm not trying to make fun, this honestly made me smile
I caught that too lol.
Says a lot about Theists when they need someone else to tell them how to act morally
In which case let’s hope they never lose their faith!
For the 20 years prior to writing, the only stories that survived were the ones that could be told with enough interest (embellishment) to inspire the next person to tell it again. Those people, with the agenda to get more converts (or people willing to sit and hear it and not get bored) - repeated the story, who if interested, retold it, and what finally survived is what the original writers were left with - at best.
Oh - who translated it from a different language, and with their own embellishments (their job as writers) wrote the first manuscript!
I will believe when the talking donkey or snake tells me it is true.
NEPy wants to "debate" the hosts IN THE COMMENTS SECTION rather than calling into the show. The reason for that is because he'll have hours to think of a response that's just as dumb as his previous statements. He'll get caught off guard if he actually thinks he has what it takes to debate the hosts, let alone Dawkins in real-time.
They'd wipe the floor with him if he called in! 🥊🥊🍿
@@SundaeExpress
We wipe the floor with him _in the comments_ so having the extra time doesn’t seem to help.
@@SundaeExpress Still mad because I smoke you w/ every comment? LOL
I'll smoke any of these hosts that want to come here and we all know it. The facts that debunk you debunk them.
Have I not given you the facts that debunk all facets of your atheist cult? You DO KNOW that your atheist cult is INFAMOUS for having ZERO ANSWERS, correct? You DO KNOW that NOTHING of your atheist cult (big bang, abiogenesis, evolution) has ever been observed, correct? NONE OF IT can be observed by scientific experiment. And guess what? There's no excuse for that fact, being that they are a part of nature (time/space/matter/time) and can't HIDE. TRUE NATURE (gravity, reproduction, sunshine, flower bloom) can't HIDE, but yet ALL ATHEIST IDEAS CAN'T BE OBSERVED. So you're clinging to things YOU HAVE PERSONALLY NEVER SEEN. There's not even one fact that proves anything of your cult is POSSIBLE. So me debating you is like me fighting a boxer w/ both hands tied behind his back. The only possible result is a quick KNOCK-OUT, which is what I've done to you on this thread.
He wants attention to bolster his weak faith. If he could demonstrate his god he would. He can’t so he’s got NPC scripts that don’t address any facts. He knows there’s no reason to listen to him. So he BEGS for someone to pay attention to him and make him feel better..
People with facts just state facts. Meanwhile he can’t even tell us what his “god” is, how it “created” anything, how it came to exist, or why his should be considered anymore “true” than any other concept of “god” no one can demonstrate.
@@diogeneslamp8004All you have to do is insist he demonstrate this god exists, what it is, how it created, how it came to exist, and how he knows anything he believes comes from “god” rather than a person claiming to be/speak for “god”.
He runs away every time and goes back to NPC bot mode.
Good job guys...
And another theist falls flat on their face....
Tacitus and Josephus aren’t contemporary works . How come not one actual eye witness thought to write anything down ….
Yes, that was one thing in the Bible I didn't like, was the acceptance of slavery as if it was morally-correct to have a slave.
I’m assuming you don’t mean that’s literally the one and only thing wrong you didn’t like.
Does God have the authority to play God? Then all you lost people can STOP with the "God is immoral" garbage for God taking life WHEN HE ALONE gave it in the first place. Does God owe you a certain amount of time on earth? No. God created ALL LIFE & thus OWNS all life and can do as he pleases w/ his own property (sovereignty). And since God is PERFECT, we can be assured that he will judge PERFECTLY.
Slavery? Wrong. God freed the Hebrew slaves under Pharaoh. There's no rules for slaves; there's only rules for servants. Servants that have volunteered to be owned UNDER CERTAIN RULES in order to pay debt. Example: Jacob was a servant for 7 yrs just to pay for his wife. Then he was given the wrong wife, so he had to work another 7 yrs to get the wife he wanted.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that you can mistreat your servants. If a servant kills your brother or rape's your wife, you can beat them but not kill them. TRY TO LEARN about SLAVES vs SERVANTS. The culture of 3,500 yrs ago was a very different time compared to today. This SLAVERY GARBAGE by atheists is just THIS EASY to totally debunk.
@@owersmenblortsmon4731doesn't believe in morality, which is why he is a convicted fraudster.
@@owersmenblortsmon4731 Your fake "God" allows slavery Powers. That means atheists are morally superior to your "God" and to you too, grampa Poopypants.
@@owersmenblortsmon4731 God is immoral. Bible is also immoral. That's fact.
wish id found this show when this aired, but ay three years later we get these gems back
It is a gem.
They still have a couple live shows every week.
Gems? LOL! That made me laugh out loud :) Slavery? Wrong. God freed the Hebrew slaves under Pharaoh. There's no rules for slaves; there's only rules for servants. Servants that have volunteered to be owned UNDER CERTAIN RULES in order to pay debt. Example: Jacob was a servant for 7 yrs just to pay for his wife. Then he was given the wrong wife, so he had to work another 7 yrs to get the wife he wanted.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that you can mistreat your servants. If a servant kills your brother or rape's your wife, you can beat them but not kill them. TRY TO LEARN about SLAVES vs SERVANTS. The culture of 3,500 yrs ago was a very different time compared to today. This SLAVERY GARBAGE by atheists is just THIS EASY to totally debunk.
@@owersmenblortsmon4731 Try to learn. The Bible allows for these "servants" to be inherited, including the children of these "servants". You can call it whatever you want, but it's owning another person as a property. It's morally wrong.
If you weren't such a coward, you could come on my live stream and say to my face this lie you want to have about the Bible not talking about slaves JUST because it also talks about servants.
@@quecee No, I already debunked you with detailed facts that prove you wrong. God freed the Hebrew slaves under Pharaoh. There's no rules for slaves; there's only rules for servants. Servants that have volunteered to be owned UNDER CERTAIN RULES in order to pay debt. Example: Jacob was a servant for 7 yrs just to pay for his wife. Then he was given the wrong wife, so he had to work another 7 yrs to get the wife he wanted.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that you can mistreat your servants. If a servant kills your brother or rape's your wife, you can beat them but not kill them. TRY TO LEARN about SLAVES vs SERVANTS. The culture of 3,500 yrs ago was a very different time compared to today. This SLAVERY GARBAGE by atheists is just THIS EASY to totally debunk.
Paul initially lied about having xrays of the breaks in his back being gone
If you have a classroom with thirty students and whisper a small sentence once in the persons ear next to you and that person does the same thing. When the sentence has come to the last person in the class room, the sentence has change.
Now... Think how a story can change over the years and written down, get a copy of it, fill in a few changes, copy it and tell it once to others and they will do the same you have done... Is it still the same story?🤔
Gawd's a jerk. Why did he miraculously heal this dude after one prayer when I spent my entire innocent (mostly) childhood begging Jaysus to heal me of chronic illness?
For all the people that think slavery is okay, ask them would slavery still be okay if they were slaves. The people who are okay with slavery are probably people who think being a slave could never happen to them. Would they be okay with having do to them to those in slavery? Would they want to be treated like black slaves in chattel slavery?
There are still those who pretends that the Bible doesn't mention slavery, except the Hebrews being enslaved by Egypt.
They think that JUST because the Bible also happens to mention indentured servitude that it doesn't talk about chattel slavery. The Bible ABSOLUTELY mentions the kind of slavery where a person is OWNED by another person such that the slave can be inherited, along with the children of the slaves, like a property.
First of all, it was SERVANTS and not SLAVES. The rest of your fluff doesn't matter when your premise is a lie.
@@owersmenbwroten9813lied again about what the Bible says
@@owersmenbwroten9813 😂😂 only in your delusional head
@@quecee Christians are morally bankrupt. None of them care about the well being of the slave. They are okay with people being beaten and tortured
They are always shocked you know the Bible better than they do.
I know the Bible better than any atheist.
@@owersmenbwroten9813Really? Remind us what Jeremiah 14:14 says about you.
@@owersmenbwroten9813 When is your call going to be shown?
@@owersmenbwroten9813 I know that's false.
@@owersmenbwroten9813 You claim to be an expert in Christianity and Biblical scholar, so the following question should be easy for you to answer.
How many Roman legionaries were sent to arrest this Jesus?
Theists have no problem with lying.
A core value.
They never do because if they're caught in a lie, and actually acknowledge it, then all they have to do is pray and poof, they're forgiven.
If someone, with no legs, prayed hard enough for 2 new legs that would be a miracle! It never happens 😂😂😂
Yeah slavery was terrible, it's sickening that the Bible accepts it.
Atheists
DON'T KNOW and understand
that all Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions
who
believe the UNBIBLICAL teachings and doctrines of their Pastors and Leaders about "Trinity", "hellfire", "Armageddon", "afterlife", "immortality of the souls", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
will
bring themselves nothing but their own dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS, worthless and useless dusts on earth forever.
Atheists
DON'T KNOW and understand
that all persons on earth who honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King and believe his teachings too about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead"
as written in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26
will
be honored in return by the loving, kind, and merciful Creator with ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in the BIBLE, in Revelation 21: 3, 4
Atheists
DON'T KNOW and understand
that the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "RESURRECTION of the DEAD"
is
the Creator's guarantee that loving, kind, and respectful persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Ruth, Naomi, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others
will
all be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can happily, abundantly, and peacefully live and exist on earth forever as subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
Slavery? Are you really this dumb? This gullible? God freed the Hebrew slaves under Pharaoh. There's no rules for slaves; there's only rules for servants. Servants that have volunteered to be owned UNDER CERTAIN RULES in order to pay debt. Example: Jacob was a servant for 7 yrs just to pay for his wife. Then he was given the wrong wife, so he had to work another 7 yrs to get the wife he wanted.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that you can mistreat your servants. If a servant kills your brother or rape's your wife, you can beat them but not kill them. TRY TO LEARN about SLAVES vs SERVANTS. The culture of 3,500 yrs ago was a very different time compared to today. This SLAVERY GARBAGE by atheists is just THIS EASY to totally debunk.
@@brantsonoverton1367 Still defending slavery Powers? And by the way, how much did you pay for your wife?
It's hypocritical of you to talk about morals in any way, shape, or form.
@@brantsonoverton1367 "NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that you can mistreat your servants." LIAR!!!!!!!!!!
Exodus 21:20-21
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
What is the your objective standard that shows slavery is bad? Because in earlier periods of time slavery was totally ok and you would be totally ok with it if you were born in these times.
If I wasn't already an atheist, listening to these terrible arguments from believers would definitely make me one
Callers like this are aggravating. Do the screeners ask questions like “Is your only proof faith, the trees, or the Bible?
Good question
Plato did write stuff down. It is Socrates that we don’t have writings from. They confused the two.
They will believe anything to have their eternal life.
Just a bunch of ignorant, egotistical, opinionated, lustful individuals that crave reward for doing good deeds. If there wasn't a reward, they wouldn't give a shit. I'm being general here
Something that these callers never understand is that a book isn't evidence. When it comes to knowledge, it's about how that book came to exist, what methods and sources were used. Knowledge about things like physics, medicine, and agriculture are advanced via writing, but the methods that result in that writing are the difference between health and famine. These results can be tested independent of the writing and derived anew independent of the writing.
What is also lacking about these religious claims is that the nature of the universe isn't dependent on unreliable historical testimony in any scientific metnod. Our knowledge about cosmology, physics, and biology can be discovered from any starting point, and that's just not true of any religous viewpoint.
Are you really this stupid? The Bible is all fact. However, hell is full of intelligent fools. Maybe you're just desperate to be the boss, instead of God; so you don't want God to exist. All atheists are liars (Romans 1:20), so I refuse to ask you any questions and hope for the truth.
The "ignorant people" of 3,500 yrs ago didn't have the knowledge to write what's in the Bible. The Bible is a record of observation that's written by God himself. If you think the Bible wasn't observed and documented by God, then you are poorly educated as there is more evidence for the Bible then any other historical writings.
God wrote the Bible & used mankind to pen it. You actually think God would depend on weak stupid humans to think up and print his Word? That we'd be judged on "Judgement Day" by what men wrote and not what God wrote? God promised that he'd preserve his Word and he did (Psalm 11:6-7). The Bible is proved by it's fulfillment or prophecy & the fact that no goat herder of 3,500 yrs ago could know the content we find in the Bible.
The Bible has plenty of science in it’s 66 books. It mentions the effect of a nuke on the human body, the 2nd law, the fact that God created time/space/matter/energy, that circumcision is done on the 8th day, just like doctors do today. The earth is round and the fact that the Universe is expanding:
”He alone STRETCHES OUT the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.” Job 9:8.
” … who STRETCHES OUT the heavens like a curtain, and SPREADS THEM like a tent to live in.” - Isaiah 40:22
You have a lot to learn and you’re basically starting from the point of abject atheist idiocy.
You got your "slavery" desperation slaughtered just like I slaughter each and every one of your atheist ideas without mercy. I've been totally destroying every facet of the asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism for 50 yrs it gets easier to do so each day. I'm simply the best because my knowledge regarding true reality dwarfs everybody. I wonder why there's nobody that's even a close 2nd.
@@brantsonoverton1367 Are you really that stupid? Bible is all fiction. Just stories and fairy tales.
@@jaflenbond7854 Blabla from insane mind.
@@Seticzech I just proved otherwise, while all you can do is scream "NO!" LOL!
@@brantsonoverton1367 "I just proved otherwise, while all you can do is scream "NO!" LOL!" Liar you didn't.
I don’t need another bible verse ever! Savage!😂😂😂
Oral traditions mixed with ignorance of the times is a disaster
Feels like Paul likes to talk in circles.
The Spammer from the Slammer keeps making unsupported claims
I always imagine a screeching car crash sound whenever I can tell that the theist is experiencing cognitive dissonance between "What I fucking well know" and "What my agenda requires me to pretend."
Yet a moist rock produced the human being?
@@owersmenbwroten9813 I'm pretty sure the Bible says that Yahweh used dust and not a moist rock. 😉
@@George89999 Well, God can "use" anything, but I want to know what part of basic nature produced the human being (e.g. star dust, moist rocks, mud puddles, hot rocks, moon dirt, warm ponds, gravity, oceans, primordial soup, nothing).
@@owersmenbwroten9813 Yes, if a god actually existed and had unlimited magic power then it could hypothetically use anything. But your question is unclear and seems to possibly be a category error.
There isn't a specific "part of basic nature" (whatever that means) that produced human beings like in mythology. The various parts/aspects of nature/physics simply allow for what we call "life" to exist. Anything else after that was simply a result of the process of biological evolution.
@@George89999 No, there's no such thing as "biological evolution" or new anatomy or any other thing that atheists spew as fact (e.g. big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, evolution).
No part of basic nature can produce the human being (e.g. star dust, moist rocks, mud puddles, hot rocks, moon dirt, warm ponds, gravity, oceans, primordial soup, nothing).
NOTHING of the asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism has EVER BEEN OBSERVED (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, evolution, gain of complexity/gain of new information/new anatomy).
NOTHING but TRUE NATURE is seen in every moment of every day (e.g. flower bloom, reproduction, photosynthesis, digestion, respiration, top down production, gravity, sunshine).
God made us from the top down and from the inside out. A MINDLESS rock didn’t just THINK & SAY to itself, “I’m going to create the human being and figure it out as I go.” BUT THAT VERY THING is what the atheist so DESPERATELY BELIEVES WITH A STRAIGHT FACE! LOL!!!!!!
Try to learn what I'm teaching you before it's too late (when your temporary free will expires at your last gasp on earth and you go to an eternal hell - wishing you had never been born). YOU CAN’T AFFORD TO GET THIS WRONG. Because 100+ trillion yrs from the moment you entire hell, it won’t even be the start of eternity! For now, you and every facet of your asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism are hereby debunked (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, evolution, gain of complexity/gain of new information/new anatomy).
Christians claim that faith makes you more humble, yet here is a man claiming that God healed HIS broken back, whilst many Christian children die of cancer. What is so special about you that YOU get healed by god, whilst these others don’t.
His claim of recreating the originals is like saying you're going to use 10 compasses that are all possibly defective to find North. If no compass gives the same heading there is no way to know which one is correct or which way is North. Even if two give the _same_ heading there's no way to determine if it is the _accurate_ heading.
Thanks!
This God did the WORST job of making his book even remotely divinely preserved.
He must love watching his followers try to defend something he never gave them evidence for.
Broken backs don't always mean what people think. Could be wedge fractures, or various structures on the vertabrae
Very true, no person who has had a serious back injury would use "broken back" and I had my first three spinal fusions done before Cat scans existed.
Just because a god is okay with slavery doesn’t mean that we should be.
…and if “god” does support slavery it means that we should have serious reservations about him.
Without God, all things are permissible.
@@JimCastleberry With god, everything is permissible as long as you repent. You've got it backwards.
@@ApatheticFish3667 That's obviously false. If evil was permitted, why repent?
Another fact for you to ignore. Will you ever be honest?
Wrong. God freed the Hebrew slaves under Pharaoh. There's no rules for slaves; there's only rules for servants. Servants that have volunteered to be owned UNDER CERTAIN RULES in order to pay debt. Example: Jacob was a servant for 7 yrs just to pay for his wife. Then he was given the wrong wife, so he had to work another 7 yrs to get the wife he wanted.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that you can mistreat your servants. If a servant kills your brother or rape's your wife, you can beat them but not kill them. TRY TO LEARN about SLAVES vs SERVANTS. The culture of 3,500 yrs ago was a very different time compared to today. This SLAVERY GARBAGE by atheists is just THIS EASY to totally debunk.
I had 3 compression fractures in my lower back from a motorcycle racing accident. I was temporarily paralyzed from the neck down. I was in the Ohio State University Hospital Trauma Center for 35 days. They watched me closely as my movement returned, and decided not to operate on my spine. That was 33 years ago. I returned to racing and have had a normal life. Jesus had absolutely nothing to do with it 😐
I'm a dirt circle track racer. Mad respect to all you motorcycle racers. I have no idea how any of you can straddle the bikes with those massive balls lol.
People that get their morals from an ancient tome are completely nuts.
Morality? Does God have the authority to play God? Then all you lost people can STOP with the "God is immoral" garbage for God taking life WHEN HE ALONE gave it in the first place. Does God owe you a certain amount of time on earth? No. God created ALL LIFE & thus OWNS all life and can do as he pleases w/ his own property (sovereignty). And since God is PERFECT, we can be assured that he will judge PERFECTLY.
Slavery? Wrong. God freed the Hebrew slaves under Pharaoh. There's no rules for slaves; there's only rules for servants. Servants that have volunteered to be owned UNDER CERTAIN RULES in order to pay debt. Example: Jacob was a servant for 7 yrs just to pay for his wife. Then he was given the wrong wife, so he had to work another 7 yrs to get the wife he wanted.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that you can mistreat your servants. If a servant kills your brother or rape's your wife, you can beat them but not kill them. TRY TO LEARN about SLAVES vs SERVANTS. The culture of 3,500 yrs ago was a very different time compared to today. This SLAVERY GARBAGE by atheists is just THIS EASY to totally debunk.
@@owersmenblortsmon4731 "Now if a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do."
Exodus 21: 7
@@owersmenblortsmon4731 Still defending slavery Powers?
This was right before covid. Few days before it was announced
This caller missed the obvious. Any changes during translation or copying would be because God wanted it changing or adapting.
No you haven't, Spammer from the Slammer!
Neppy, alias Brantson Overton, the Convicted Fraudster aka The Spammer from the Slammer, peacocks his ignorance of science, logic and the basics of human conversation.
The Spammer from the Slammer! OMG!!! 💀
Sounds like I struck a nerve LOL
Attacking the humble messenger again, I see.
Have I not given you the facts that debunk all facets of your atheist cult? You DO KNOW that your atheist cult is INFAMOUS for having ZERO ANSWERS, correct? You DO KNOW that NOTHING of your atheist cult (big bang, abiogenesis, evolution) has ever been observed, correct? NONE OF IT can be observed by scientific experiment. And guess what? There's no excuse for that fact, being that they are a part of nature (time/space/matter/time) and can't HIDE. TRUE NATURE (gravity, reproduction, sunshine, flower bloom) can't HIDE, but yet ALL ATHEIST IDEAS CAN'T BE OBSERVED. So you're clinging to things YOU HAVE PERSONALLY NEVER SEEN. There's not even one fact that proves anything of your cult is POSSIBLE. So me debating you is like me fighting a boxer w/ both hands tied behind his back. The only possible result is a quick KNOCK-OUT, which is what I've done to you on this thread.
The braggart troll @@brantsonoverton1367calls himself 'humble', 😆 🤣 😂
@@brantsonoverton1367 How much did you pay for your wife Powers?
The Hammarabi Code Stele at over 4,000 years old is original text carved on stone and readily available today in several examples. Surely any cod could do the same, and end all this silliness?
Hasn't anyone played "Chinese Whispers" 🤣
“God didn’t want us to worship the Bible” well he did a shit job because I’m pretty sure that’s like 90 percent of most modern forms of evangelical Christianity
those believers arent getting any smarter
Loving these throwback videos. Christian hypocrisy has never been so repugnant
“It is easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled.” - Mark Twain
Our brain never evolved to see reality as it really is; it evolved to interpret information in a way that kept us alive. Cohesive groups with shared beliefs were more likely to pass on their genes, BECAUSE they believed in magic.
The frustrating part is that this trait has not unevolved, probably because it includes the failsafe code instructing the group to be fruitful and multiply. 🐇 🐇 🐇 🐇 🐇
From my perspective the issue is that people believe that the bible is the word of God written down by man, rather than a collection of stories written by the Christian church to cement their power over others. Now, while some of the bible is admirable and gives guidance and purpose to people, it also reflects the thinking of the time.
They can't understand someone that doesn't have a more arbiter.
However the book they get their morals from have a god that has broken every moral code possible
The 200s is the 3rd century
Slavery it seems is endorsed in the Bible !
That is a real problem ! That says that God Almighty isn't capable of understanding a world without slavery ?
God not capable of conceptualising a world without slavery ! Curious ?
That was painful and typical
Sigh. Courts don't make you disprove things because they are rational and have to actually WORK. Religion only has to dominate.
US defamation laws mean you do have to prove it didn't happen when you Sue.
Even if we did have the entire originals of every single book it still doesn't mean it's true. These people hurt my 🧠
It is not possible to disprove nonexistence.
Man, Liar Powers must really be failing hard today. There's numerous threads where people are responding to him, but his posts do not appear.
It's not his fault, I know. Failing liars gonna fail and lie.
I used to eat playdoh as a kid.
I meet Jesus once
He was pretty chill dude at the video arcade
This guy really said that a postage sized fragment of a copy of John was found. How does that prove the Bibles used today are wholly consistent with the original text? And even the original texts may be inaccurate since they are based on oral traditions.
“You’d be hard pressed…”
No shit. Because you cannot prove a negative😂
- "I broke my back"
- "???how?"
- "thpinal"
THE writings most contemporary to the life of the Arab known as 'Jesus'
is 90-150 ad, which means THREE to FOUR GENERATIONS of separation!
Everytime you tell a Christian “I don’t give a shit what the Bible says” a Christian will start quoting the Bible….every-freaking-time.🤦🙄
How do we know that it wasn't the healer fairies who healed his back? Fairies are real, I've read about them so that's proof that they are real.
If you can't prove that it wasn't the fairies then I'm certain you cannot prove it was god.
The ones living at the bottom of my garden told me they were the ones who created the Universe.
"Why won't god prove himself now!"
"HE DID! 2000 years ago!"
Demonstrate that asinine assertion. Typical christian, gullible, willfully ignorant, and dishonest--asserting that which they cannot demonstrate. Pathetic.
I could be a stupid person if I chose so. However, my mind that asks questions won’t allow me to do this.
24:04 - "You have a back story..."
Hehe, I see what you did there 🤭👏
I’ll go out, find a guy named Peter Parker and then tell this guy that Spider-Man exists because it matches the books. Cognitive dissonance on full display poor guy is so far down the rabbit hole he’s a lost cause
What do you expect from a book written in the bronze age when slavery was the norm. I guess God missed giving the authors the DL on how slavery is bad.
"You'd have to disprove that jesus existed and good luck with that" yeah the reason that's hard is because first we'd have to have proof that jesus did exist and scholars have been fighting over that particular nugget since the cross went up.
So this is what I've been telling my Christian friends for years now. Why wouldn't God just project a grand vision to all of us at the exact same time to everyone all over the world proclaiming the truth of his existence. It would be pretty hard to deny it after that. Having billions of people seeing the same thing at the same time. Undeniable at that point right?
But I'm also careful to tell them that sure... even after that I'll believe. But would I follow? Unless all of the things I was taught in Baptist Church were wrong... I may not follow. He has a lot of explaining to do.
God requires faith. Too much revelation & faith is not needed:
“... without faith it is impossible to please God…” - Heb 11:6
@@owersmenbwroten9813 Repeat after me: Bible is very poor, immoral, incoherrent book of stories and fairy tales with more than 550 direct contradictions. It's just a summary of lore, beliefs, and culture of iron age ignorant superstitious misogynistic violent immoral goat herders, who INVENTED GOD for explaining pure natural phenomena. God is just man made idea, nothing more.
@@owersmenbwroten9813 1st Samuel 6:19 in the King James Version: “And he smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men (50,070)”
@@owersmenbwroten9813
WHY does your god require faith when evidence would be so much more persuasive?
@@owersmenbwroten9813 Why would I waste time trying to please something that likely doesn't exist. I have other more pressing things to worry about than if an imaginary god likes me or not.
When I think of the oral tradition, I think of the time my mom told me a story about something that happened to someone she knew.
The problem was that the event happened to me, I'm the one who told her about it, and she got the story wrong.
Let's pretend for a second that Jesus was real, was one person, and actually was a deity/part of a godly triumvirate. How much of the scripture do you think he'd be like "that's not how that happened at all"?
Even IF you could prove jesus was a living person once, you'd still have to prove a god
I'm like, 80% sure this paul guy is the host of the youtube channel the catholic gaming nerd, and he's just as wierd outside of this debate
One of my favorite Christian cope arguments, as part of my top 5, is the "God wanted us to worship this latest version of the bible" argument. If we found the original manuscripts and they contradicted things said in the new, then believers would *have* to defer to the original texts. Meaning, you would have to admit that you've been worshipping falsely, and even perhaps sinning all this time.
GOD'S FAVOR and REWARD to IMPERFECT, SUFFERING, and DYING HUMAN BEINGS
GOD KNOWS
that his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in the BIBLE, in Revelation 21: 3, 4
is
NOT for LIARS, arrogant, cruel, hateful, and merciless persons on earth
but
ONLY for all persons who honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King
and believe his teachings too about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead"
as written in the BIBLE, in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26.
RELIGIONS BRING and CAUSE the DISHONOR and ETERNAL DEATHS of MANKIND
Atheists KNOW
that they rejected the BIBLE as just a worthless book of lies, myths, fictions, fantasies, and fairy tales
but
DON'T KNOW and understand
that
all Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Born Again Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions
who
are filling the world with the Satanic LIES and UNBIBLICAL teachings and doctrines about "Trinity", "hellfire", "Armageddon", "afterlife", "immortality of the souls", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
are obviously
NOT the loving, kind, and respectful persons who are worthy and deserving of GOD's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death
but
the LIARS, arrogant, cruel, and hateful persons on earth
who
can't be trusted with anything and are worthy and deserving of their own dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS, worthless and useless dusts on earth forever, never to be seen and heard ever again on the face of the earth.
TRUTHFUL, LOVING, KIND, and RESPECTFUL PERSONS WILL LIVE and EXIST on EARTH FOREVER
Thousands of years and nothing has changed, just the same....
The teaching of Jesus Christ about the "RESURRECTION of the DEAD"
is still
GOD's guarantee that truthful, loving, kind, and respectful persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Ruth, Naomi, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others
will
all be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can happily, abundantly, and peacefully live and exist on earth forever as subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of GOD and his Christ for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as GOD's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
@@jaflenbond7854 Blabla from insane mind.
I swear most callers are either Stupid or Trolls
Im waiting for someone to find the lost last page of the bible which says "and it was all a dream"
Here's the opportunity to prove you can reconstruct the original sentence without knowing what modifications were made:
"You can eat really tasty jelly made out of strawberries on bread"
So, if you can construct the original version of that sentence, you have proven such a thing might be possible.
Also... share the process with us.
"it was written in the 200's, the second century". Er, who is found to tell him.
1:29 Moral R-Butter
I guess I am missing something here
23:48 FAITHHEAD! 🤣
"If you don't have a moral arbiter"......wait!! Stop right there! Theists don't have a moral arbiter either....they just assert they do. Its an error to let any theist proceed with the moral argument on the basis that they have an objective foundation for their morality. They merely have the assertion that a being dictated what's moral. But of course there's no good evidence for that. And so the theist is, in reality, is stuck with all the same moral conundrums as the non-theist and must subjectively decide what system they will accept.