I think great aspect of Martin's world is that there's plenty of mysterious that don't have real answers and nor do they really need answers. Like with the Doom of Valyeria and the Shadowlands. it's these Lovecraftian elements that make you wonder what is really underneath the surface of this world that truly makes us feel that there's just this element of the world that's beyond our understanding and control of the characters. It also gives a sense of wonder and makes the reader feel as if they're Indiana jones, exploring ancient cultures and unlocking mysteries. I enjoy this type of content that doesn't really reveal all of it's mysteries and leaves the audience to come up with their own theories of what is truly going on which creates a lot of fan engagement and makes them feel involved with the story.
The thing I love about this video is that, although you profess to take off your therapists hat, most of the points you emphasize have to do with the psychological nature of the world. I've seen quite a few videos where reader and/or authors discuss world-building, and your is a perspective I'm not sure I've seen anywhere else because of your therapist background. Keep up the good work!
What makes GRRM‘s work truly special and puts him above the rest, even above Tolkien (for me) is that he writes not just a world But entire societies, just as complex as medieval societies were irl; a web of classes, conflicts and contradictions. That in itself is fantastic but it also in turn allows him to write extremely realistic political conflicts, ones that put the July Crisis and the 30 Years War to shame. I can’t really think of anyone else who does it this way, and it‘s miles ahead of even some of the best fantasy there is.
@ 😂 😂 😂 that is not an argument my dude. Galileo or Newton could be said to have „invented“ physics but they still got stuff wrong. And also, he didn’t „invent“ fantasy. Fantasy works existed before. But again, not an argument in the first place.
This is a good channel for exploring broader concepts of storytelling - a good one especially for fantasy/sci fi world-building craft fyi is Hello future me
As a fellow writer, just start! Not everything has to be preplanned. George himself is a gardener. Plant the seeds on the way while inspiration takes you and you can go back whenever you want to reap the crop.
I was about to restart world building on my current book (change of themes) and you have pinpointed why I love Robert's rebellion in Game of Thrones and said it in a way that makes me see why my histories aren't hitting the same way. Thank you. I will say the thing I personally love about A Song of Ice And Fire is how connected but separate everything is. Like everything in that world has to be there for the story to play out the way it is. You have to have the Red Priests, you have to have some strange witches in the woods, you have to have the history of Old Valyria. Everything is made and everything is used to support this epic that he's making. I'm always impressed by that since I now he doesn't plan his books out and the amount of stuff you have to keep track of like that is staggering.
Few fictional worlds have managed to pull me in quite like GOT. I think it’s because it’s a parallel to real life but has obvious stark (pun?) differences. One I always think of is the church of our world and the sept of their world, septas and septons rather than nuns/priests/etc. GRRM includes some of the most minute little details but it helps me further my grasp on the world as well as interest me. In just writing this comment, I started wondering, what exactly are the 7 holy oils the septons anoint people with? What are their significance? It’s good writing that makes me interested in such frivolous things.
My favorite things about George's world are the things that are mentioned, but never explained...or if they are, then not in depth. -The black oily stone. -Whatever the fuck was inside Aerea Targaryen -No children live in Asshai (WHY????) -Yeen -All of Sothoryos -what lies beyond the Five Forts -The Doom -Old Valyria These are the things that allow for speculation, and subsequently fan theories. Which is one of my most favorite things about the fandom. All the theories we get.
Wow! A lot of great nuggets here. As an aspiring writer myself, you have some of the most insightful and thoughtful video essays. Well done Ser Tree 😉 I want to recommend you Freaks and Geeks if you haven't seen it yet. It's a tv show set in the 1980's about a few teenagers growing and struggling with their identities in high school. It's really well done with great themes and writing. Also comes highly rated on imdb.
I think if its possible and if you think you can get views you could do the TV Series adaptation of "The Name Of The Rose" by Umberto Ecco, which was also a film starring Sean Connery. If you are not familiar its a murder mystery in a medieval monastery which has a lot of inquisition politics but some very interesting psychology. the series is a lot more detailed and than the film and has more side threads.
Agh I should've linked the walk video in the description! I'll have to sort that in the morning. Either way you'll find it on the Dave's Walks channel. He let's me use his walks very kindly. It'll be one recent to when I uploaded this video. I would go and check but I'm about to sleep, sorry!
Great video, although I was disappointed to not find the Dave's Walks link in the description. Was hoping to maybe be able to figure out where the video (walk) was actually recorded. 😔
i would say the greatest use of environment as a character--or at least environment as a major driving force for character/plot is by Frank Herbert. examples are: Dune series Destination Void series. Whipping Star series
That's so cool! I looked it up, shame it's so expensive but I suppose that tends to be the norm for literary criticism. Might try and get the kindle at somepoint. Thanks for letting me know!
The problem with this worldbuilding is the feudalism itself. It makes no sense. You cannot run a whole kingdom with just one castle. George also makes a huge deal about tax policy but does not explain who Westeros' bureaucracy functions. There is also the languages and that other than Dorne, the North and the Iron born the other Kingdoms' cultures don't feel distinct enough. There only being 5 big cities in Westeros also makes no sense. The idea that one castle rules over 3 villages (Standfast in Dunk and Egg) when medieval villages were formed around castles so the ratio should be one village one castle. Basically the worldbuilding shatters disbelief for me as a historian.
Once you got a hit under your belt the gift is the time to pour into the follow ups without the threat of poverty looming over your grave....i mean head....i mean home
Its very interesting that for point one this can be helped by using real history for example Martian uses the War Of the Roses for reference (the houses and houses prominent before Henry VII) as well as the country design of Great Britain for westeros wall and all, its conceivable the greyjoys live on the isle of man. however i would disagree I think the danger extends past the first book as Easteros is explored by Danyris it becomes more exotic and dangerous. The other interesting thing is that as winter approaches the south is technically safer. but this is at the edge of living memory, on the second point Star Wars a New Hope starts in the middle after important events which are only just in reach and has a similar effect, and people view recent history "from a certain point of view" and revealing history as the story unfolds serves well here to world build but also as we hear other opinions it enlightens us. the Book advantage with Song of Ice and Fire is the first person aspect we learn different sides by being in the heads of different characters. Geography is important as the journey to kings landing helps us explore some of the world building showing where the bottle necks are and helping seeing the changes as we go and the contrasts. The tone as you say is important as it resonates reality messy history and messy politics world threats, there are a number of book series which do this, His Dark materials I would like to see you do. on the Sci fi side "the expanse " has a lot of material to dig in. I personally like "The Sword of Truth" books (not so much the TV adaptation) which has very interesting world building and philosphy, it certainly does not shy away from death, murder, torture and there are strong political themes. The most interesting thing is in the early books we feel the world is big and can take weeks to travel but in a much later book we discover that all we have seen so far actually is in a very small part of the world, its like the UKs history then discovering oh theres a everything beyond (this is similar to westeros in some ways.
Funny, GRR Martin made the setting a character and then, in GRR Martin fashion, killed the setting by never finishing the books. Outstanding move, sir!
It is way too simplistic and modern to say cultures are just trying to set themselves apart from others. Cultures are modern inhabitants interacting with their histories/traditions and remixing/continuing/abandoning them in the present. All those choices are lot more interesting than "Im better than you bc I have a kingsmoot" smh the history of Westeros has 2 separate conquering which attempted to homogenize the continent. Many throughout still are against and maintain their local culture. That's actual thought input into the histories interacting(whats kept what isnt and why) not just "conflict" for conflicts sake
Oh yes of course that's simplistic, ofcourse there's far, far more to it than that. My point was just, on some small level, you can see those sort of tensions going on. Obviously it's more complex and you need to build more into it, but it's just to point out the use of such things in the cultures of your own worldbuilding. I can't remember how I worded it but I certainly should've specified it's only that "on a small level" not in its entirety
His world building is shite because he never finished it. An abandoned world is badly wrought, however skilled the craftsman supposedly is. Tolkien didn't leave his world uncompleted. Jordan left extensive notes and guidance to finish his world knowing he was going to DIE. Meanwhile, Martin just peaced out.
I prefer theory about human colonized planet, last in space. Magia is technology, others is androids, living dead - nanobots, ashai - destroyed nuclear plant, strange weather - destroyed planet climat control plant...
Use the code TREE for 40% off World Anvil with the link worldanvil.com/?c=mltt
Or else try it out for free!!
Just wanted to say I love your channel so much. Every little detail. Keep on keeping on.
I think great aspect of Martin's world is that there's plenty of mysterious that don't have real answers and nor do they really need answers. Like with the Doom of Valyeria and the Shadowlands. it's these Lovecraftian elements that make you wonder what is really underneath the surface of this world that truly makes us feel that there's just this element of the world that's beyond our understanding and control of the characters. It also gives a sense of wonder and makes the reader feel as if they're Indiana jones, exploring ancient cultures and unlocking mysteries. I enjoy this type of content that doesn't really reveal all of it's mysteries and leaves the audience to come up with their own theories of what is truly going on which creates a lot of fan engagement and makes them feel involved with the story.
The thing I love about this video is that, although you profess to take off your therapists hat, most of the points you emphasize have to do with the psychological nature of the world. I've seen quite a few videos where reader and/or authors discuss world-building, and your is a perspective I'm not sure I've seen anywhere else because of your therapist background. Keep up the good work!
What makes GRRM‘s work truly special and puts him above the rest, even above Tolkien (for me) is that he writes not just a world But entire societies, just as complex as medieval societies were irl; a web of classes, conflicts and contradictions. That in itself is fantastic but it also in turn allows him to write extremely realistic political conflicts, ones that put the July Crisis and the 30 Years War to shame. I can’t really think of anyone else who does it this way, and it‘s miles ahead of even some of the best fantasy there is.
Tolkien single handedly invented the fantasy genre and he actually finished his stories
@ 😂 😂 😂 that is not an argument my dude. Galileo or Newton could be said to have „invented“ physics but they still got stuff wrong.
And also, he didn’t „invent“ fantasy. Fantasy works existed before. But again, not an argument in the first place.
Wooow, I was just thinking about planning worldbuilding for my book and this video showed up. Must be a sign I should start writing.
This is a good channel for exploring broader concepts of storytelling - a good one especially for fantasy/sci fi world-building craft fyi is Hello future me
Go build that world bro 👍👍
Same! It is really insightful!
As a fellow writer, just start! Not everything has to be preplanned. George himself is a gardener. Plant the seeds on the way while inspiration takes you and you can go back whenever you want to reap the crop.
I was about to restart world building on my current book (change of themes) and you have pinpointed why I love Robert's rebellion in Game of Thrones and said it in a way that makes me see why my histories aren't hitting the same way. Thank you.
I will say the thing I personally love about A Song of Ice And Fire is how connected but separate everything is. Like everything in that world has to be there for the story to play out the way it is. You have to have the Red Priests, you have to have some strange witches in the woods, you have to have the history of Old Valyria. Everything is made and everything is used to support this epic that he's making. I'm always impressed by that since I now he doesn't plan his books out and the amount of stuff you have to keep track of like that is staggering.
Few fictional worlds have managed to pull me in quite like GOT. I think it’s because it’s a parallel to real life but has obvious stark (pun?) differences. One I always think of is the church of our world and the sept of their world, septas and septons rather than nuns/priests/etc. GRRM includes some of the most minute little details but it helps me further my grasp on the world as well as interest me. In just writing this comment, I started wondering, what exactly are the 7 holy oils the septons anoint people with? What are their significance? It’s good writing that makes me interested in such frivolous things.
My favorite things about George's world are the things that are mentioned, but never explained...or if they are, then not in depth.
-The black oily stone.
-Whatever the fuck was inside Aerea Targaryen
-No children live in Asshai (WHY????)
-Yeen
-All of Sothoryos
-what lies beyond the Five Forts
-The Doom
-Old Valyria
These are the things that allow for speculation, and subsequently fan theories. Which is one of my most favorite things about the fandom. All the theories we get.
Please do the psychology of Ramsay Bolton! He’s easily one of the most interesting characters in the show/books.
It looked like the trees are growing coins in the background video, weard.
Awesome to see you at a point where you’re taking on sponsors!
Wow! A lot of great nuggets here. As an aspiring writer myself, you have some of the most insightful and thoughtful video essays. Well done Ser Tree 😉
I want to recommend you Freaks and Geeks if you haven't seen it yet. It's a tv show set in the 1980's about a few teenagers growing and struggling with their identities in high school. It's really well done with great themes and writing. Also comes highly rated on imdb.
Great video hope it gets the attention it deserves
I think if its possible and if you think you can get views you could do the TV Series adaptation of "The Name Of The Rose" by Umberto Ecco, which was also a film starring Sean Connery. If you are not familiar its a murder mystery in a medieval monastery which has a lot of inquisition politics but some very interesting psychology. the series is a lot more detailed and than the film and has more side threads.
Ah his dark materials, that was damn good worlbuiling. Spins a parallell world so well.
Thanks for the video
I found the video very thought provoking, yet I couldn't help but wonder, where are these beautiful trees in the video itself?
Agh I should've linked the walk video in the description! I'll have to sort that in the morning. Either way you'll find it on the Dave's Walks channel. He let's me use his walks very kindly. It'll be one recent to when I uploaded this video. I would go and check but I'm about to sleep, sorry!
@@mylittlethoughttree thank you for replying, maybe it's better this way 😆 now I can find more beautiful nature spots, thanks again!
Nice trees
Great video, although I was disappointed to not find the Dave's Walks link in the description. Was hoping to maybe be able to figure out where the video (walk) was actually recorded. 😔
Oh damn, it's supposed to be in the description! I normally do, I must've forgot
i would say the greatest use of environment as a character--or at least environment as a major driving force for character/plot is by Frank Herbert.
examples are:
Dune series
Destination Void series.
Whipping Star series
I don't know if this counts as self-promotion, but I wrote a whole book about all of this.
Is it published? What's it called?
@@mylittlethoughttree George R.R. Martin and the Fantasy Form (New York: Routledge, 2019).
That's so cool! I looked it up, shame it's so expensive but I suppose that tends to be the norm for literary criticism. Might try and get the kindle at somepoint. Thanks for letting me know!
The problem with this worldbuilding is the feudalism itself. It makes no sense. You cannot run a whole kingdom with just one castle. George also makes a huge deal about tax policy but does not explain who Westeros' bureaucracy functions. There is also the languages and that other than Dorne, the North and the Iron born the other Kingdoms' cultures don't feel distinct enough. There only being 5 big cities in Westeros also makes no sense. The idea that one castle rules over 3 villages (Standfast in Dunk and Egg) when medieval villages were formed around castles so the ratio should be one village one castle. Basically the worldbuilding shatters disbelief for me as a historian.
Once you got a hit under your belt the gift is the time to pour into the follow ups without the threat of poverty looming over your grave....i mean head....i mean home
Its very interesting that for point one this can be helped by using real history for example Martian uses the War Of the Roses for reference (the houses and houses prominent before Henry VII) as well as the country design of Great Britain for westeros wall and all, its conceivable the greyjoys live on the isle of man. however i would disagree I think the danger extends past the first book as Easteros is explored by Danyris it becomes more exotic and dangerous. The other interesting thing is that as winter approaches the south is technically safer. but this is at the edge of living memory,
on the second point Star Wars a New Hope starts in the middle after important events which are only just in reach and has a similar effect, and people view recent history "from a certain point of view" and revealing history as the story unfolds serves well here to world build but also as we hear other opinions it enlightens us. the Book advantage with Song of Ice and Fire is the first person aspect we learn different sides by being in the heads of different characters.
Geography is important as the journey to kings landing helps us explore some of the world building showing where the bottle necks are and helping seeing the changes as we go and the contrasts. The tone as you say is important as it resonates reality messy history and messy politics world threats, there are a number of book series which do this, His Dark materials I would like to see you do. on the Sci fi side "the expanse " has a lot of material to dig in.
I personally like "The Sword of Truth" books (not so much the TV adaptation) which has very interesting world building and philosphy, it certainly does not shy away from death, murder, torture and there are strong political themes. The most interesting thing is in the early books we feel the world is big and can take weeks to travel but in a much later book we discover that all we have seen so far actually is in a very small part of the world, its like the UKs history then discovering oh theres a everything beyond (this is similar to westeros in some ways.
You lost me when you said you liked sword of truth series
Doa littlefinger analysis plis lol
Grrm got the Willy Wonka Factory logic everything in the world is a character.
Your voice >
o ren ishii, things are washy wishy, bit a quickness boshy bishy, thats weird something's fishy.
💐 *Promo SM*!!!
Funny, GRR Martin made the setting a character and then, in GRR Martin fashion, killed the setting by never finishing the books.
Outstanding move, sir!
It is way too simplistic and modern to say cultures are just trying to set themselves apart from others. Cultures are modern inhabitants interacting with their histories/traditions and remixing/continuing/abandoning them in the present. All those choices are lot more interesting than "Im better than you bc I have a kingsmoot" smh the history of Westeros has 2 separate conquering which attempted to homogenize the continent. Many throughout still are against and maintain their local culture. That's actual thought input into the histories interacting(whats kept what isnt and why) not just "conflict" for conflicts sake
Oh yes of course that's simplistic, ofcourse there's far, far more to it than that. My point was just, on some small level, you can see those sort of tensions going on. Obviously it's more complex and you need to build more into it, but it's just to point out the use of such things in the cultures of your own worldbuilding. I can't remember how I worded it but I certainly should've specified it's only that "on a small level" not in its entirety
His world building is shite because he never finished it. An abandoned world is badly wrought, however skilled the craftsman supposedly is.
Tolkien didn't leave his world uncompleted. Jordan left extensive notes and guidance to finish his world knowing he was going to DIE. Meanwhile, Martin just peaced out.
I prefer theory about human colonized planet, last in space. Magia is technology, others is androids, living dead - nanobots, ashai - destroyed nuclear plant, strange weather - destroyed planet climat control plant...
I'm having trouble not paying attention to the setting in lord of the rings. Just kinda not paying attention till the action happens.
Finish Winds of Winter and Hope of Spring okay George?