Until recent years playing supports was really pain in the ass. You barely have any level and money, got killed in 3 hits, have to buy courier, no gold for stacking, obs wards costing money and some more things I forgot about. Now it’s very impactful role and a lot of time good support means easy game. I always was position 1/2 player and hate playing support but nowadays playing support is not only fun but impactful. It’s is one of the things I really appreciate in dota updates. Also a lot of new heroes for pos 4/5 keep appearing in recent years. Imagine picking weaver or gyro support back in the days, be ready for 9 reports.
On the contrary, supports can win the game themselves.. But yes, I've felt this. Smashing it with Undying, then my Clinkz dies trying to backdoor without luring their team out of their base first. That being said if my whole team joined him we would have won.
I mean half of them have a way to become deadly carries for a reason. When I see my teammates are shit early game I just transition my build into carry on half of them and I do better than my cores. AA, silencer,ogre,jakiro and willow can become really strong auto attackers if built correctly. I still buy wards and dusts and whatnot as well and I've ended up with more damage, more farm, more kills and obviously more support contributions than my other teammates and winning. The thing is that you don't want to do this if you're team's doing well as you'll grief your carry's farm and progress and you can lose the game. But it's a good backup plan if you want to win and not depend on your carry who may or may not troll you.
@@Mayhamsdeadyeah but on a core hero you have that option of just locking in and killing multiple people per team fight. Imagine playing a save support like oracle, you ward you save you heal and in the end your carry dies out of position after you've been begging him to back off.
I kinda like thinking of Pos5s in Asimov's Laws terms: 1.- A Support must always protect their Cores 2.- A Support must always secure Objectives (unless there's Cores to protect) 3.- A Support must always protect themselves (unless there's Cores to protect or Objectives to secure)
That 1st rule isn't as universal or as prioritized as you might think. If your core dives into 5 heroes by themselves when they're clearly weaker, you're not obliged to jump in and try to help. That will just add 1 more kill to the plate. Always analyze and assess whether the fight is a good fight to join in or if you're just adding a feed to the scoreboard.
@@harukonoe4248 kills are worth less in dota than in lol. also you as a support probably wouldn't farm a lot anyway if wouldn't be dead. or you don't always have valuable spells to be useful somewhere else. helping is very important because your core can know their possibilities which you don't, wonders can happen and opponents can mess up
Bane's innate is pretty awesome because as a support, a lot of times you have to pick up a lot of int items, leaving you with honestly too much mana to ever use. You end up getting a LOT tankier between health and armor than an average support would be. On top of that, bane carry actually rips. Can absolutely ruin isolated targets with no counterplay
i play him mid. You dont REALLY win mid, but you make the enemy mid loose for certain with enfeeble. Scorched earth mid play with ganks at lvl 6 into right click monster that just decimates you with nightmare, aghs ult, nightmare combo.
I am a bigtime dota 2 player who mains the support roles and has never touched league of legends and i hope a lot of league players comment on the video about which heroes they found most interesting! i love hearing reactions from people who have never played the game and i myself would be very interested in watching a video like this for league supports even though i have no intentions of playing the game for myself
As a League player who played for over 12 years I swapped to DOTA 2 months ago the characters that were the most interesting to me were the ones who required you to control multiple of them. So illusion heroes like Phantom Lancer, Meepo, or Naga Siren. Or what I call capture heroes like Chen and Enchantress since they capture neutral camps. In League we can't control more than 1 character the same way you do. We have some Champions like Ivern and Annie who can summon an additional thing much like Warlock does but it's not treated as a 2nd character for you to control. You pretty much tell it where to move to and that's it and even then its very temporary. So the idea of having to micro an entirely 2nd thing as if it's an entirely new character to control was crazy for me to witness and get used to. I've personally become sort of a Treant Protector main and have climbed to Archon 3 exclusively playing him. His interaction with the trees felt really cool to me. He's not a very contested pick and has major impact in the game. There's not trees in League. In fact you don't really interact with the environment like you do in DOTA with the Tangos and cliff wards. So having a character who has major interactions with that sort of stuff really drew me to him.
The reason why bane's passive can be good is that bane really likes int items. Euls, Atos, Orchid, Scythe, all provide int, but bane doesn't really care about mana. so being able to redistribute those stats into agi and str give him additional armor health and regen, which are far more valuable. It can also allow you to select bracer wraith band or null for their bonus effects, without having to sacrifice your other stats.
Bane's innate is good because it makes you beefier when you buy int items. Sheepstick is great for its active, bane makes the stats more attractive 30 int gives 360 mana, 1.5 mana regen and 3% magic resistance, compared with 10 allstats giving 220 hp, 1hp/s, 10 attack speed, ~1.6 armor, 120 mana, 0.5 mana/s, and 1% mr. Damage is the same either way. Same can be said for other int items, like force staff having more health, eul's, and so on. The common support items that have stats usually lean towards int, and so end up making you a bit beefier overall.
Also it's a bit on point for the hero as he has had for a looooong time, the same stat gain on all stats per level. I believe he gets 2.2 str, agi and int per level. Which is a nice little reference.
As someone who got into dota a few weeks ago, this video would have been perfect and exactly what I was looking for as someone coming from league, still appreciate this video, had no idea AA's ult stopped healing
You're exactly the kind of person I made this video for! A lot of the info out there is outdated especially with such drastic changes in recent years, so I hope you learn a thing or two!
Just a creator's note--this series won't be featuring a lot of actual gameplay footage purely in the interest of getting both this and "Every League Champion Explained" finished by the time both TI and Worlds roll around so that interested players won't be lost! I hope both this, and the future episodes, serve as a great stepping stone for anyone interested in either game. I got my work cut out for me--but I'm looking forward to stepping up to this challenge!
Bane's innate exists because one of the hero's mini-gimmicks is having having perfectly balanced stat gains per level - they've been that way for a long time. it also happens to be alright for core mid bane
I believe banes odd passive is a reference to the fact that his ability gain has always been equal. Basically, he always gains the same amount of agility strength, and intelligence with every level . He’s actually always kind of been this oddly middle of the road average hero that everyone’s compared against when it comes to stats
Love your view on AA, is my favorite hero (2nd most played 601 games),very good pick in most games, i think ppl started now in the past 2 years that is a powerful hero. I would like to add almost 99% of the games i pick Exposure, the disables are very strong if u know how to use well your Q. Now, speaking of your Q; 1- You need to anticipate when the enemy hero is going to spend most of the time near the where he was when you cast it. Like when the enemy off laner is going for the ranged creep, you cast it before he hits the creep so he needs to back to where he is coming. 2- When you have your lvl 6 with exposure you can farm jungle creeps ez. Your W; 1- Your hero is the best dewarder(?) hero in the game in my opinion because of this ability, you can hide the sentry very far of the ward spot in the trees or anywhere and desward from very far range. 2- When im playing against heroes with high mobility i like to always put the lvl 15 talent. if not, as i like exposure, i started to chose the other talent like 2 months ago idk. Your E; 1- Exactly what's on the video, unless you are going mid, only at lvl 1. Your Ult: 1- Unless it is a game against 3 tanks you take death rime talent lvl 25. 2- If you have your shard use it to cancel channeled spells if your cores are engaged. mmm idk what to add, i love euls in general and in aa is very powerful with your Q, try to learn when it's better to freeze the enemy right when they hit the ground when allies are nearby and u can kill the enemy fast and he cant escape (with some blink like qop and am or has some item to escape). When you need your allies to get closer to secure the kill (and if the situation is favorable) u can delay for like 1 second the freeze (let me reclarify that the enemy here doesnt have something to escape) and have that second extra for your allies to get closer. that's it i think. srry for my english it's not my first language and i fell very rusty. thanks for your videos.
I really appreciate you mentioning that a very large majority of the heroes in the game can be played in different roles outside what theyre "traditionally" played as. Its definitely one of the things i love about dota. We arent pigeonholed into playing a certain way. Like how we can play Naga Siren as pos 1 OR pos4 for example. Its definitely an aspect that i dont hear people talk about enough especially when comparing Dota to other games like League.
Yeah League has fewer champs that can be played in multiple positions with the exception of support (you can play almost anything there as long as you understand the matchups). That is because League phylosophy in the past used to be to limit champs to one role, but this changed a few years ago so now we have more variety.
@@MattHatter360 oh damn I didn't know that league was slowly transitioning into a more flexible style with their champs. That's great news imo. More viable playstyles and variation is always good imo.
22:57. Always take 225 atack speed. helps you deward faster,farm faster,clear lanes faster,break base faster. it doesn't matter if enemies have undying,phoenix or other simillar heroes(who need high atk speed to break their summon unit). This talent provides overall more utility compared to 50 dmg to ult. after reduction,it is just 20 more dmg to your ult. just taking aghs+atking while in ult would net more dps overall,even if you are playing with her as a ult caster
Bane passive essentially increases his attack damage from stats by 40%, as well as evening his stat curve to make him more durable and more combat capable than other supports. It’s really good, like, *really* good.
Great content, as a player who just got back to DOTA 2 after having stopped playing for 10 years, the game has changed a lot and I greatly value all those tips and nice insight views. Thanks!
been playing league since 2017, and just unlocked ranked in dota 2. what really set apart the two roles from me was that there were more Pyke-like supports, and by that I mean a support that can carry alone through their skills and damage, with kills going to them not being wasted. Sure, getting kills on a Renata or a Braum will get them more items and level 6, but giving kills to someone like Lion and/or Venomancer feels more impactful.
recently came back to the game after not playing for about 8 years (played league in the meantime) and ive realised i really did not understand the game at all when i used to play so im really excited for this series so i can get a bit of a crash course on my understanding of how the heroes function!
I hope you continue this series for all the roles. As someone who's played League of Legends since release but couldn't get into DOTA 2 it's really interesting to learn how all of their heroes are played. Maybe I'll finally understand what's happening this TI
Well, I think Ace got himself A TON of future content. Let us all consume and bring engagement to your growing channel. And good luck to all League players trying Dota for the first time, it's a unique game and technically, the first successfull MOBA if we count it Dota 1
The best part of disruptor is that you can send heroes who just respawned and teleported to tower back to fountain, then have them do the walk of shame back.
Hmm, weird. Let me inspect again because the timestamps were working last time I checked. Thanks for the heads up. EDIT: I found the problem, everyone who sees this vid and uses the timestamps will be forever in your debt now
As a disruptor main, You have to get 2points in 1st skill at lvl3 with 1 point in glimpse. Its a 120% dmg increase and its the strongest point disruptor laning stage. Then just max out glimpse as the laning stage past lvl6 is over. Do not underestimate the dmg of 1st skill as it is a strong trading spell against squishy supports as it allows them to slow move and attack, and allows you to get to trade behind vision.
For a brief time he was a core hero decades ago but he got left behind in the power creep meta ideal for cores and instead became a support instead of just being an undertuned hero never seeing the light of day.
@@lazyei9499 yeah i wanted to go for those who were more continuously mainstream-ish supports, so not stuff like terrorblade luna or sven (though i did forget mk)
@@touyakami1406 I still play terrorblade 5, I know Q has been nerfed to shreds but in a low 5stack its still really fun and easy to stomp lane at lvl2 with meta and bloodgrenade
Just a small correction for Willow, her shard doesn't make the stun go off even if it's dispelled, but the brambles will still spawn hehe. It's also why I still prefer left talent at 10 cuz her E often gets dispelled later on, having shorter W CD can help w survivability. Also, you should definitely always go bedlam damage at 15 because of that (you'll always have someone to put bedlam on unless ur all ranged backliners lmao)
Hi! I'm playing Willow main aswell and do agree with the -2 cd on level 10. But you really should try out the bigger aoe on lvl 15. It was so op that Valve nerved this talent in last patch to a smaller aoe bonus. But it's still very big. Casting on T3 towers defenses you can fill out the whole gateway to highground. Combined with shard, ur Q and this talent you will do a good safty initation for your team mates.
Bane getting a lot of all stat benefits him because all stats have secondary effects attached to them. str gives extra max hp and hp regen, agi gives extra armor and attack speed, int gives extra mana, mana regen, and magic resist. having extra hp stats and extra armor on bane just for buying items he likes is pretty nice
I'm not new players, I'm not advance level player, i watch it because dota have a lot of complexity in the game, and the way of other people see some hero maybe different love the contents ❤
Whenever healing is the meta, always pick abbadon because mist coil is the most underrated healing spell at level 1. Don't make the mistake of picking aphotic shield at level 1. For 1 aphotic shield cast, which basically gives you 120hp(shield) at 95 mana with 12 secs cd, you can cast 2 mist coil which gives your allies 200 HP for 100 mana at 6.5 secs cd. Even at mid-late game, mist coil will scale very well with Holy locket and because of its extremely low cooldown at max level. In team flights, enemies will generally ignore you so you won't die like most other position 5s early on in team fights and if you don't die immediately, enemies won't be able to burst your carries. If they focus on you, you'll still live longer than most supports and this will give your team the time to kill them instead.
People have explained the gameplay reasons behind Bane's innate, but I'll explain the meta justification. Basically, a quirk with bane has always been that both his base attributes and attribute gain have always been identical. This was simply a running gag that has existed since he came out where if one stat is buffed, they're all buffed. Making Bane universal, and giving him his innate was basically an extension of this weird gimmick, and I'm honestly surprised it took IceFrog this long to get around to implementing it.
Tips for new players: If you want to learn from other players on yt. ALWAYS AND ALWAYS only watch dota 2 matches after big patches. Because we guarantee you, we are already waaaaay past dota 2, we are already playing on dota 6 beta.
Bane's innate makes his weakness before 7.36, mana pool, no longer exist. And you can even do a hybrid core build, with treads and hurricane pike if you take the att speed facet on nightmared targets, while still having enough mana to use your spells. Treads is the best option since arcane boots is no longer required, and hurricane pike is still good utility for your team. It's pretty good since Bane also has a decent attack damage due to him being a universal hero. It gives bane some solo kill potential, and decent damage contribution in teamfights.
Bane's Passive is not about being good. Mostly Flavor. Its a character trait that Bane had for the last 20 years (equal distribution amongst [base] stats). Thus it looks more like an AWESOME interpretation of the nightmare hero than an actual buff to the character. Still being a "universal" (new type) hero, he utilizes all those stats equally into attack damage, while keeping a moderate balance between health , mana pool , attack speed.
No, abaddon never wants to be in frontline late game. Its function is basically a save support such as oracle, dazzle, shadow demon, etc who wants to stay back and save your core when enemy jumps on him. Only difference with other save supports is enemy will prioritize to jump and kill save support first, but you don't want to jump abaddon when he have ult.
There are plenty of cases where abaddon wants to be in front. Sometimes you have a squishy team so you have to be the buffer zone for a push to give them space. Sometimes you need to draw enemy threat from your carry. An abaddon who doesn't soak any damage in lategame fights is worthless. You go in, ulti gets popped, you soak up damage and try to back out and focus on saves. If an abaddon has his ulti unpopped after sitting in the backline all fight, I'm reporting him. Supports need to be involved in fights, too many sit in the back line and surprised pikachu face when the enemy team kills their carry in 1 second flat because the carry was the only target in range.
Banes innate is good because it makes him tankier from buying int items. You can get a euls scepter and it will give you HP. Or a scythe, or shivas, or whatever else and you will usually gain more strength from it than usual. Also it's a gimmick, because bane has always had equal stat growth on every stat
Bane´s innate is good cause he can gain armor, attack speed, Hp and Hp Regen without investing in strength or agility items, this means he can buy full support items (Which mostly give inteligence like force staff, eul scepter and vyse in late game) while still scalling in stats and not focusing all in mana, other supports usually end up with a very big mana bar but very low hp and armor which usually means they end up dying before using all of their mana cause their defenses are so low. And also since Bane is a universal hero he doesnt even have to sacrifice his right click damage cause he gains damage from all stats, so his innate is a very powerful scale tool specially for Core Bane.
Bane's innate is mostly a joke; bane has always had equal str-agi-int gain, and this just takes it to a new level. In terms of actual gameplay functionality, it's really only useful when buying a lot of int items, because the extra hp and armor is more useful than the mana. Who knows, though, perhaps some madlad will craft a right click bane build that somehow makes use of it someday. Something to note with Chen is that the hero scales deceptively well in the right hands (mostly pro-play). I'm an aggressively mediocre Chen (I've had a dead even 50% winrate on the hero since 2013), but even I've had a lot of success through late game Chen aura stacking. It's one of the best farming, and therefore best scaling, pos 5s, and the value of all the aura items and creep auras should not be underestimated. Plus the hero can become weirdly tanky and surprisingly hard hitting in the late game simply by being a universal hero with good stat gains and items. Also putting Willow as a pos 5 is dubious, not because she's bad in the role (she's perfectly fine in it), or because she's better as a pos 4 (though that one is usually true), but because when have you actually ever seen a pos 5 willow? One who didn't farm and didn't try to buy aghs and transition into a right clicker? Pos 5 willows don't actually exist.
I kinda felt the same about Willow (and Clock) at first, but then I realized her Bedlam change made her just fine in the role since she she can throw it on a teammate now. And then I was surprised to find out how popular Willow 5 is after checking out both Dotabuff and D2PTracker, even finding out on the latter that she has a higher winrate as a hard support. She's definitely a tweener between 4 and 5--but for the purpose of this video, which is just to talk about the basics of a character to a new player who doesn't understand certain nuances like the difference between 4 and 5, it felt more right to me than wrong to put her in simply because it's popular enough to make the cut. And since we're here, just to give a preview, I'm working on part 2 right now and Lion is in the next video, even if I see a lot more Lion 4 than 5. He seems to be popular enough as a 5 according to the stat websites that not including him would just feel wrong at that point.
@@Acex2ron It's probably a good thing too, to introduce potential new players to the concept of pos 5 Willow, since she's a hero that will always be effective in many roles so long as you are good enough against her. And then they can go down the same route as I did, starting out playing willow like a good little support until they get addicted to right click Willow and do it every game whether it's good or not. Also I guess I'm just old school but I still think of Lion more as a 4 than a 5, just like I had a tough time adapting to support Clock when most of my time playing it was back when it was exclusively core, and support clock has been meta for years now. Meanwhile I will stare you dead in the face and say that pos 5 CK is situationally viable and you should try it, so my concept of core and support is probably just weird.
bane sleep walking is insanely good if you use it with force staff which can push enemy toward the direction you want which mean if enemy is running or tp you use it on him and he walk right into your team ( or cliffTezzy)
usually bane players have to buy eul, force or scythe,... lots of int disabling items so at minute 40 or something bane can get 1 hit by a passing by primal beast. this passive is huge for bane player because it give them some extra strength to survive
Chen main of 10 years (off and on) here to help! (league player since s1 - bard/ziggs main- still active but not as much) 1. Its okay to mess with key bindings for Chen. Its scary at first but I promise that once you get comfortable with the key bindings, you can autopilot him like (almost) everyone else if your brain power needs to be focused on macroplay/pos 5 stuff. 10 years and i changed them again a month ago to what is more comfortable for me on a newer keyboard, and it honestly made each game much easier. 2. Pick at least 2-3 other heroes to play comfortably - but don't let them deter you from learning Chen. It is real easy to find success on a less micro-intensive support - letting you focus on your macrogame far easier. Preferably, pick what is fun and easy for you. For me, I have 3 other main heroes in Dota (Abbadon 4/5, Treant Protector, Enchantress). This helps in the 1 in 1,000 games Chen actually got banned from me. 3. Focus on you. Your team will be your team regardless of how nice/toxic they are. They are required to win the game as Chen especially in lower brackets, it is REALLY hard to solo carry unless you get farm, and that is not easy from Pos 5 when you have no mobility or damaging spells inherently, just creeps and their abilities requiring micro. You have no "support starter item" or any kind of gold sharing (outside of stacking, but that's just another pos 5 thing you will get in time) so if you get jumped, it is really easy to get starved of resources. Focus on your game plan and item timings and be ready to pop ulti when they go apeshit without you. 4. Don't One-trick yet. Similar to point 2, but more of a league focused point. One-tricking in league is relatively easy because the worst champs can have around a 45% win rate even playing into a hard counter. I am one tricking Ziggs at the moment and even into rougher matchups I still feel I have more impact than I would being countered in Dota. Counter picks snuff you out MUCH harder to the point where it can be nearly unplayable (e.g., Enchantress/Doom can just steal/eat your creeps earlier than you can reliably get more). Win rates for Chen look good when they reach 43% in lower brackets. After around 150 games I was sitting at 50% myself and I consider that incredibly good for Crusader where there is less reliable team coordination. 5. You WILL get stomped, but its okay. Dota can be much more oppressive/one-sided than League. If 4 of you get snuffed out, the map is too large to take back consistently, which allows the enemy team to spread out and become harder to lock down and pick off. 6. You WILL stomp. Yeah, this too. Even though some games feel super hard and stressful, you can still reliably get gold off of ulting for assists. With good timing, and a good team (which you WILL get, I promise). Your kit is perfectly tuned for pushing towers and grouping with your team. You have a wide range of utility you can bring with a lot of creeps - and can push really well with the right itemization. If you do good, you can keep your team alive even when they are not doing well, buying them time to farm, push, or take objectives and even potentially turning the game around entirely. Most of all, have fun. Its a fun game if you let it be - its not if you push yourself to win constantly. Take it at your pace and enjoy :D
One last thing: Another reason why you want to end the game early on chen is the fact that if you lose your jungle - kiss it goodbye because he cant take it back on his own. With no damaging spells, if he loses his creeps and has no jungle to go to - it becomes unfun VERY quickly. Enjoy being a raka ult bot for a few minutes until you can get some of that space back. One or two creeps can be enough that early. Also feel free to mess with builds. Theres a mek/aura focused build that doesnt play around micro as much - more early game pickoff and sustain with Q/E. Mekanism, pipe of insight, and drums of endurance work well with this build. Then, once you are comfortable with your micro, theres the W max. A point in Q/E is fine, but max W as soon as you can and all their base are belong to you. Their jungle? Nah - your army. Build Drums/Vlads/(whatever is necessary for team). Other last thing since my memory is bad: ENEMIES CAN GET GOLD/EXP OFF YOUR CREEPS. If you aren't careful, you can genuinely feed them gold/xp and put yourself farther behind. I recommend a few games of each style, then picking a favorite until you get more comfortable.
I feel like supports got the most interesting facets out of all the heroes. There are so many bad/pointless/boring facets, and supports got away with the fewest of them.
33:51 Did you know thr left talent is much better because the 10+ damage every strike isnt just flat 10 every strike it goes 10,20,30,40 over the base damage the spell does. So thr damage gets pretty high.
IMO a missed opportunity to plug in TI clip where ice vortex gave Roshan vision and shacker was able to echo slam roshpit. It's probably easiest to find as "6000000$ echo slam"
20:40 - little correction, since 7.36 it doesn't have prolonged duration on creeps. However the damage is drastically increased (quadrupled iirc) so advice is still not incorrect - CM can, indeed, use this ability to farm creeps, starving the enemy carry
if u played with good support players u will definitely say that they're the ones who wins the game. from laning perfectly (carries babysitted), rotation(creating tempo/rhythm, being at the right time at the right places), and plays(saves,and catch). most of my games with good supps end early.
As a bane player(a not so good one) The ichor innate which distributes stats equally is a good pair with the dream stalker facet......I usually just build around like like I'm using a basic attacker NP
Well, tbh, Aba in my opinion always was an extremely flex hero in terms of build and role. Sometimes I built him like a tank, sometimes a classic support, sometimes he is a DPS machine. Very flexible and universal hero
really it's about the rest of the kit. a support being unkillable means they can sustain their teammates and/or lock down enemies in a teamfight for longer (though, this also means that enemies will no longer focus you and will now go after your cores, which sometimes can be a massive downside.). a carry being unkillable means they can dish out metric tons of damage.
Bane's innate isn't "good" per say, but it is very funny since he's always had equal stat gains. It *can* be nice to guarantee some more attack speed from your stats on average (on a core role), though it's pretty inconsequential. Just a funny innate since it was a unique trait of the hero and Bane was pretty OP before 7.36
that one core yelling "WHERE THE FUCK IS OUR WARDS??!!!" my dude, you farming across the map where no one but you there, and dead alone on enemy territory
As someone who's playing dota 2 and league since launch, this video shows why my favorie role in dota is support and my least played one in league is support. League's support is just... boring compared to this. And the supports you showcased in this part aren't even the most fun ones. Ogre, witch doctor and my main warlock are where it's at, easy, fun and doing insane damage numbers and cc. They solo win games, seriously.
@@21minus1 They aren't bad, they are still really important to the team but their kits are very one dimentional for the most part (some like lulu and rell do have interesting kits though) but the way they're played is just boring. You just poke your lane opponents or protect your carry depending on the champion and occasionaly ward/deward a bush. Sometimes you can rotate to mid to gank but again you need a specific support type to do that and there's a chance your carry will just die if you do. Considering that the laning phase in league is much more important than in dota, this is very important to the game but it's very boring too. The other thing that's boring about league supports is a problem with league itself. The items are extremely boring. 80% of the items are passive statsticks and the 20% active items, at least the support ones are just click an ally to buff while around them, you buy the item click it once and forget about it being an active since the link doesn't break on death or anything. There are some active support items that actually do something but they're really underwhelming compared to dota's, you have an item granting a shield like crimson guard but the shield is really small and lasts for a very short time, you have a drum analog that just gives your teammates near you move speed for 2 seconds when activated and the most interesting one is a healing item that heals in a huge circle while damaging enemies in it. But it's janky to use in teamfights as league's full of mobility and lacks hard CCs and the item has a delay on the heal, so it's not consistent like mek from dota.
People and newcomers might overrate Abaddon because he’s the first one. Umm no. He’s actually not that well known, its just that the list are alphabetical. He’s always been a weird mediocre hero. His ult might sound good but in reality people will just ignore you and not hit you so you cant heal. Just a warning. Though he got buffed in the last 2 patch and was in the meta as a carry. Last patch he got nerfed and we got this Abaddon, but he’s still viable as a carry.
In dota 1 bane have same base stats and stats gain per level appearancely for no particular reason at all. they imported it to Dota 2 and now Dota 99 it call "innate ability" for shits and giggles. Cheer to all the people explain they do it for some gameplay-improvement tho.
Bane carry is a thing and that passive is absolutely broken imo, for anyone who knows to play dota. There's no counter for bane mid, not even OD can beat it
Sigh. Crystal maiden was EXTREAMLY powerfull as it was the ONLY hero with 360 degree (no need to wait for turn around) on click frame castable instant disable. It scaled with players reaction and decision making ability, making it an actual pro level character. Then they put in rubick. Who nut just had this same, but it was a full on stun, and relocation ability (one that was pudge really good for) as position is really important in dota, also it was able to cast ALL stolen abilities in the game like this, making it the most broken hero ever and prolly will be forever. All games suffer from powercreep, Rubick is a perfect example how they took a uniqueness of a hero and waaay uped it. Yeah the mana regen aura is still a feature, but atm its flat. They prolly gonna turn it into percentage, with a base flat as a powercreep or risk completely remove her or just have it as a consolation pick if they lost rubick.
Wait, how did bane move while ulting with aghs? Everytime I try to move it doesn't let me, and if I press S it cancels bane and the two illusions ult ._.
I do want to correct something. Its not true that most pos 5s can be played as 4s. In fact, Jenkins, a high ranking immortal player, said that the most game losing habit in the pos 4 role is playing the pos 4 as a second pos 5, which includes picking a 5 hero in the 4 role. th-cam.com/video/jVN6kc12pbU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=GUBZuXSs81_KX8Ja&t=172 it is true that SOME pos 5s can also be 4s, but not most.
I agree with this! But remember that this video was made with the context of new players in mind, and that Jenkins' by design is tailored towards people who want to improve at the game. New players wouldn't understand most nuances like the true jobs of Pos 4 and 5, etc, and just want to play a hero/champion that they find cool. This is still an important comment though, and I appreciate you taking the time to write this--just for the players who do end up watching this video and want to grind!
@@parham1023 I do agree that he exaggerates for effect sometimes, and memes in his reviews, but the principles he lays out seem very solid. Given his rank, i trust that he knows the game. He is a bit of a troll (offlaner) but i dont think he's so immoral that he would deliberately mislead people just for the memes.
bane has bacome more and more a right clicker (even as support) since it was allowed to hit nightmared enemies, and later when made universal. That's the abusable part of being universal, getting lots of damage and hitting nightmared enemies.
I still don't understand where Bounty Hunter goes, usually I go 3 but the tool tip says he goes support, some play carry with him, and even rarer is mid, what is he really?
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 87 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs โชคปรีชา"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6e7HVnekw/mqdefault.jpg)
hardest part of being a support is when you really did you best and you know you are doing it right, but in the end it doesn't even matter 🎵
Until recent years playing supports was really pain in the ass. You barely have any level and money, got killed in 3 hits, have to buy courier, no gold for stacking, obs wards costing money and some more things I forgot about.
Now it’s very impactful role and a lot of time good support means easy game.
I always was position 1/2 player and hate playing support but nowadays playing support is not only fun but impactful. It’s is one of the things I really appreciate in dota updates.
Also a lot of new heroes for pos 4/5 keep appearing in recent years. Imagine picking weaver or gyro support back in the days, be ready for 9 reports.
On the contrary, supports can win the game themselves..
But yes, I've felt this. Smashing it with Undying, then my Clinkz dies trying to backdoor without luring their team out of their base first.
That being said if my whole team joined him we would have won.
This is reference from Sonic Adventure 1 with the Theme Of Sonic?
I mean half of them have a way to become deadly carries for a reason. When I see my teammates are shit early game I just transition my build into carry on half of them and I do better than my cores. AA, silencer,ogre,jakiro and willow can become really strong auto attackers if built correctly. I still buy wards and dusts and whatnot as well and I've ended up with more damage, more farm, more kills and obviously more support contributions than my other teammates and winning. The thing is that you don't want to do this if you're team's doing well as you'll grief your carry's farm and progress and you can lose the game. But it's a good backup plan if you want to win and not depend on your carry who may or may not troll you.
@@Mayhamsdeadyeah but on a core hero you have that option of just locking in and killing multiple people per team fight. Imagine playing a save support like oracle, you ward you save you heal and in the end your carry dies out of position after you've been begging him to back off.
Every support explained:
>We need wards
>i will purchase observer ward
>i will purchase sentry ward
@@Mayhamsdead…Wut?
Warlock neverglimmergang:
"I aM tHe WaRd!"
>out of stock
>"I will buy wards...."
>"My mid bought all wards"
>Gru looks at slide
>"My mid bought all wards" 🤬
Damn 50 gold is really hard to spare
I kinda like thinking of Pos5s in Asimov's Laws terms:
1.- A Support must always protect their Cores
2.- A Support must always secure Objectives (unless there's Cores to protect)
3.- A Support must always protect themselves (unless there's Cores to protect or Objectives to secure)
That 1st rule isn't as universal or as prioritized as you might think. If your core dives into 5 heroes by themselves when they're clearly weaker, you're not obliged to jump in and try to help. That will just add 1 more kill to the plate. Always analyze and assess whether the fight is a good fight to join in or if you're just adding a feed to the scoreboard.
@@harukonoe4248 Still protecting them by not making the enemies stronger
4 - a support should die rather than the carry 😂😂
@@harukonoe4248 kills are worth less in dota than in lol. also you as a support probably wouldn't farm a lot anyway if wouldn't be dead. or you don't always have valuable spells to be useful somewhere else. helping is very important because your core can know their possibilities which you don't, wonders can happen and opponents can mess up
Bane's innate is pretty awesome because as a support, a lot of times you have to pick up a lot of int items, leaving you with honestly too much mana to ever use. You end up getting a LOT tankier between health and armor than an average support would be. On top of that, bane carry actually rips. Can absolutely ruin isolated targets with no counterplay
Yeah, I was gonna say core bane is a lot stronger with the innate passive
i play him mid. You dont REALLY win mid, but you make the enemy mid loose for certain with enfeeble. Scorched earth mid play with ganks at lvl 6 into right click monster that just decimates you with nightmare, aghs ult, nightmare combo.
Yeah, you can buy items for their passives and actives solely and stats become irrelevant.
I am a bigtime dota 2 player who mains the support roles and has never touched league of legends and i hope a lot of league players comment on the video about which heroes they found most interesting! i love hearing reactions from people who have never played the game and i myself would be very interested in watching a video like this for league supports even though i have no intentions of playing the game for myself
As a League player who played for over 12 years I swapped to DOTA 2 months ago the characters that were the most interesting to me were the ones who required you to control multiple of them. So illusion heroes like Phantom Lancer, Meepo, or Naga Siren. Or what I call capture heroes like Chen and Enchantress since they capture neutral camps.
In League we can't control more than 1 character the same way you do. We have some Champions like Ivern and Annie who can summon an additional thing much like Warlock does but it's not treated as a 2nd character for you to control. You pretty much tell it where to move to and that's it and even then its very temporary. So the idea of having to micro an entirely 2nd thing as if it's an entirely new character to control was crazy for me to witness and get used to.
I've personally become sort of a Treant Protector main and have climbed to Archon 3 exclusively playing him. His interaction with the trees felt really cool to me. He's not a very contested pick and has major impact in the game. There's not trees in League. In fact you don't really interact with the environment like you do in DOTA with the Tangos and cliff wards. So having a character who has major interactions with that sort of stuff really drew me to him.
I only play league but the idea of glimpsing someone who just teleported to lane back to fountain is so evil
Can confirm I cackle maniacally like a villain whenever I pull it off
@@ZeR0W1 i cry every single time especially with no boots
The reason why disruptor is my all-time favourite support. Oh, how they burn 🔥😈
The reason why bane's passive can be good is that bane really likes int items. Euls, Atos, Orchid, Scythe, all provide int, but bane doesn't really care about mana. so being able to redistribute those stats into agi and str give him additional armor health and regen, which are far more valuable. It can also allow you to select bracer wraith band or null for their bonus effects, without having to sacrifice your other stats.
Bane's innate is good because it makes you beefier when you buy int items.
Sheepstick is great for its active, bane makes the stats more attractive
30 int gives 360 mana, 1.5 mana regen and 3% magic resistance, compared with 10 allstats giving 220 hp, 1hp/s, 10 attack speed, ~1.6 armor, 120 mana, 0.5 mana/s, and 1% mr. Damage is the same either way.
Same can be said for other int items, like force staff having more health, eul's, and so on. The common support items that have stats usually lean towards int, and so end up making you a bit beefier overall.
Also it's a bit on point for the hero as he has had for a looooong time, the same stat gain on all stats per level.
I believe he gets 2.2 str, agi and int per level. Which is a nice little reference.
As someone who got into dota a few weeks ago, this video would have been perfect and exactly what I was looking for as someone coming from league, still appreciate this video, had no idea AA's ult stopped healing
I'd like to see more of these as someone who is having a hard time getting started in Dota (but plays League.)
Disruptors Aghs just being two words is funny and shows how a simple upgrade can be a very powerful one.
Bane's innate is good because variety is the spice of life
GETTING INTO DOTA 2 AND THIS IS PERFECT. KEEP EM COMING.
I hope you enjoy dota2 so far :D. Gl in your journey
I needed this so bad, I'm new new and this is exactly what I needed! What timing!
You're exactly the kind of person I made this video for! A lot of the info out there is outdated especially with such drastic changes in recent years, so I hope you learn a thing or two!
Just a creator's note--this series won't be featuring a lot of actual gameplay footage purely in the interest of getting both this and "Every League Champion Explained" finished by the time both TI and Worlds roll around so that interested players won't be lost! I hope both this, and the future episodes, serve as a great stepping stone for anyone interested in either game. I got my work cut out for me--but I'm looking forward to stepping up to this challenge!
Good luck man
Bane's innate exists because one of the hero's mini-gimmicks is having having perfectly balanced stat gains per level - they've been that way for a long time. it also happens to be alright for core mid bane
I believe banes odd passive is a reference to the fact that his ability gain has always been equal.
Basically, he always gains the same amount of agility strength, and intelligence with every level .
He’s actually always kind of been this oddly middle of the road average hero that everyone’s compared against when it comes to stats
Just finished watching this one at 1.5 speed, hope you finished recording and uploading part 2 in the meantime.
I wish :P
@@Acex2ron Need Rubickk!
Love your view on AA, is my favorite hero (2nd most played 601 games),very good pick in most games, i think ppl started now in the past 2 years that is a powerful hero. I would like to add almost 99% of the games i pick Exposure, the disables are very strong if u know how to use well your Q.
Now, speaking of your Q;
1- You need to anticipate when the enemy hero is going to spend most of the time near the where he was when you cast it. Like when the enemy off laner is going for the ranged creep, you cast it before he hits the creep so he needs to back to where he is coming.
2- When you have your lvl 6 with exposure you can farm jungle creeps ez.
Your W;
1- Your hero is the best dewarder(?) hero in the game in my opinion because of this ability, you can hide the sentry very far of the ward spot in the trees or anywhere and desward from very far range.
2- When im playing against heroes with high mobility i like to always put the lvl 15 talent. if not, as i like exposure, i started to chose the other talent like 2 months ago idk.
Your E;
1- Exactly what's on the video, unless you are going mid, only at lvl 1.
Your Ult:
1- Unless it is a game against 3 tanks you take death rime talent lvl 25.
2- If you have your shard use it to cancel channeled spells if your cores are engaged.
mmm idk what to add, i love euls in general and in aa is very powerful with your Q, try to learn when it's better to freeze the enemy right when they hit the ground when allies are nearby and u can kill the enemy fast and he cant escape (with some blink like qop and am or has some item to escape). When you need your allies to get closer to secure the kill (and if the situation is favorable) u can delay for like 1 second the freeze (let me reclarify that the enemy here doesnt have something to escape) and have that second extra for your allies to get closer.
that's it i think. srry for my english it's not my first language and i fell very rusty.
thanks for your videos.
Your English was fine mate :) thank you for the tips!
I really appreciate you mentioning that a very large majority of the heroes in the game can be played in different roles outside what theyre "traditionally" played as. Its definitely one of the things i love about dota. We arent pigeonholed into playing a certain way. Like how we can play Naga Siren as pos 1 OR pos4 for example. Its definitely an aspect that i dont hear people talk about enough especially when comparing Dota to other games like League.
Yeah League has fewer champs that can be played in multiple positions with the exception of support (you can play almost anything there as long as you understand the matchups). That is because League phylosophy in the past used to be to limit champs to one role, but this changed a few years ago so now we have more variety.
@@MattHatter360 oh damn I didn't know that league was slowly transitioning into a more flexible style with their champs. That's great news imo. More viable playstyles and variation is always good imo.
22:57. Always take 225 atack speed. helps you deward faster,farm faster,clear lanes faster,break base faster.
it doesn't matter if enemies have undying,phoenix or other simillar heroes(who need high atk speed to break their summon unit). This talent provides overall more utility compared to 50 dmg to ult. after reduction,it is just 20 more dmg to your ult. just taking aghs+atking while in ult would net more dps overall,even if you are playing with her as a ult caster
Bane passive essentially increases his attack damage from stats by 40%, as well as evening his stat curve to make him more durable and more combat capable than other supports.
It’s really good, like, *really* good.
Great content, as a player who just got back to DOTA 2 after having stopped playing for 10 years, the game has changed a lot and I greatly value all those tips and nice insight views.
Thanks!
been playing league since 2017, and just unlocked ranked in dota 2. what really set apart the two roles from me was that there were more Pyke-like supports, and by that I mean a support that can carry alone through their skills and damage, with kills going to them not being wasted. Sure, getting kills on a Renata or a Braum will get them more items and level 6, but giving kills to someone like Lion and/or Venomancer feels more impactful.
I only played very little DotA, but support and Pos5 seem like drastically different roles
Appreciate the comparisons to League abilities! Helps me contextualize the heroes a bit better
recently came back to the game after not playing for about 8 years (played league in the meantime) and ive realised i really did not understand the game at all when i used to play so im really excited for this series so i can get a bit of a crash course on my understanding of how the heroes function!
You forgot to mention how octarine core allows dazzle to permanently cast shallow grave while spamming his ultimate
I hope you continue this series for all the roles. As someone who's played League of Legends since release but couldn't get into DOTA 2 it's really interesting to learn how all of their heroes are played. Maybe I'll finally understand what's happening this TI
Well, I think Ace got himself A TON of future content. Let us all consume and bring engagement to your growing channel. And good luck to all League players trying Dota for the first time, it's a unique game and technically, the first successfull MOBA if we count it Dota 1
12:46 the nightmare on the illusion is peak comedy
The best part of disruptor is that you can send heroes who just respawned and teleported to tower back to fountain, then have them do the walk of shame back.
2:25
Actual Old School Players : What? It silenced?
I have like 5k hours on dota but I'm watching this for some reason 😂
Hi Ace! You could timestamp the video so you can see what heroes are where :D
Hmm, weird. Let me inspect again because the timestamps were working last time I checked. Thanks for the heads up.
EDIT: I found the problem, everyone who sees this vid and uses the timestamps will be forever in your debt now
As a disruptor main, You have to get 2points in 1st skill at lvl3 with 1 point in glimpse. Its a 120% dmg increase and its the strongest point disruptor laning stage. Then just max out glimpse as the laning stage past lvl6 is over. Do not underestimate the dmg of 1st skill as it is a strong trading spell against squishy supports as it allows them to slow move and attack, and allows you to get to trade behind vision.
16:46 ah my left ear.
Speaking of Clockwerk tho, It's crazy to me that he's a support in Dota2. He was a midlane ganker in Heroes of Newerth.
For a brief time he was a core hero decades ago but he got left behind in the power creep meta ideal for cores and instead became a support instead of just being an undertuned hero never seeing the light of day.
i cant wait for you to get to my favourite supports - Alchemist Gyrocopter Muerta and Weaver!
You forgot clinkz, though, it is now played mostly as pos 1
@@lazyei9499 yeah i wanted to go for those who were more continuously mainstream-ish supports, so not stuff like terrorblade luna or sven (though i did forget mk)
@@touyakami1406 I still play terrorblade 5, I know Q has been nerfed to shreds but in a low 5stack its still really fun and easy to stomp lane at lvl2 with meta and bloodgrenade
2:30
To old school players: it doesn't silence anymore.
Me, an old school player: it never did
Damn I'm time flies
Wdym it never did? It did before 7.36 update
Not always. That was a fairly recent change, last few years if i remember@@Lastofhiskind-00
@@Lastofhiskind-00 In Dota 1, Abaddon E just slow AS/MS.
Just a small correction for Willow, her shard doesn't make the stun go off even if it's dispelled, but the brambles will still spawn hehe. It's also why I still prefer left talent at 10 cuz her E often gets dispelled later on, having shorter W CD can help w survivability. Also, you should definitely always go bedlam damage at 15 because of that (you'll always have someone to put bedlam on unless ur all ranged backliners lmao)
Hi! I'm playing Willow main aswell and do agree with the -2 cd on level 10. But you really should try out the bigger aoe on lvl 15. It was so op that Valve nerved this talent in last patch to a smaller aoe bonus. But it's still very big. Casting on T3 towers defenses you can fill out the whole gateway to highground. Combined with shard, ur Q and this talent you will do a good safty initation for your team mates.
Bane getting a lot of all stat benefits him because all stats have secondary effects attached to them. str gives extra max hp and hp regen, agi gives extra armor and attack speed, int gives extra mana, mana regen, and magic resist. having extra hp stats and extra armor on bane just for buying items he likes is pretty nice
Thanks for this video my friend and I is returning to dota after playing ML and were super lost hahaha this helps a lot
Thanks
Damn, these talent things are really similar to HotS talents. I like them!
They were weird when they were introduced a few years back, but they add even more power spikes and depth to the game!
Another one for Grimstroke ult synergy, Lich.
I'm not new players, I'm not advance level player, i watch it because dota have a lot of complexity in the game, and the way of other people see some hero maybe different
love the contents ❤
Whenever healing is the meta, always pick abbadon because mist coil is the most underrated healing spell at level 1. Don't make the mistake of picking aphotic shield at level 1.
For 1 aphotic shield cast, which basically gives you 120hp(shield) at 95 mana with 12 secs cd, you can cast 2 mist coil which gives your allies 200 HP for 100 mana at 6.5 secs cd.
Even at mid-late game, mist coil will scale very well with Holy locket and because of its extremely low cooldown at max level. In team flights, enemies will generally ignore you so you won't die like most other position 5s early on in team fights and if you don't die immediately, enemies won't be able to burst your carries. If they focus on you, you'll still live longer than most supports and this will give your team the time to kill them instead.
OH YES THE VIDEO IVE BEEN WAITING FOR
People have explained the gameplay reasons behind Bane's innate, but I'll explain the meta justification. Basically, a quirk with bane has always been that both his base attributes and attribute gain have always been identical. This was simply a running gag that has existed since he came out where if one stat is buffed, they're all buffed. Making Bane universal, and giving him his innate was basically an extension of this weird gimmick, and I'm honestly surprised it took IceFrog this long to get around to implementing it.
Tips for new players:
If you want to learn from other players on yt. ALWAYS AND ALWAYS only watch dota 2 matches after big patches. Because we guarantee you, we are already waaaaay past dota 2, we are already playing on dota 6 beta.
Bane's innate makes his weakness before 7.36, mana pool, no longer exist. And you can even do a hybrid core build, with treads and hurricane pike if you take the att speed facet on nightmared targets, while still having enough mana to use your spells. Treads is the best option since arcane boots is no longer required, and hurricane pike is still good utility for your team. It's pretty good since Bane also has a decent attack damage due to him being a universal hero. It gives bane some solo kill potential, and decent damage contribution in teamfights.
Hoping to see the infamous support Sniper with Aghs philactery
Bane's Passive is not about being good. Mostly Flavor. Its a character trait that Bane had for the last 20 years (equal distribution amongst [base] stats). Thus it looks more like an AWESOME interpretation of the nightmare hero than an actual buff to the character. Still being a "universal" (new type) hero, he utilizes all those stats equally into attack damage, while keeping a moderate balance between health , mana pool , attack speed.
just say "Dota is League but on steroids"
No, abaddon never wants to be in frontline late game. Its function is basically a save support such as oracle, dazzle, shadow demon, etc who wants to stay back and save your core when enemy jumps on him.
Only difference with other save supports is enemy will prioritize to jump and kill save support first, but you don't want to jump abaddon when he have ult.
There are plenty of cases where abaddon wants to be in front. Sometimes you have a squishy team so you have to be the buffer zone for a push to give them space. Sometimes you need to draw enemy threat from your carry. An abaddon who doesn't soak any damage in lategame fights is worthless. You go in, ulti gets popped, you soak up damage and try to back out and focus on saves. If an abaddon has his ulti unpopped after sitting in the backline all fight, I'm reporting him.
Supports need to be involved in fights, too many sit in the back line and surprised pikachu face when the enemy team kills their carry in 1 second flat because the carry was the only target in range.
Banes innate is good because it makes him tankier from buying int items. You can get a euls scepter and it will give you HP. Or a scythe, or shivas, or whatever else and you will usually gain more strength from it than usual. Also it's a gimmick, because bane has always had equal stat growth on every stat
Bane´s innate is good cause he can gain armor, attack speed, Hp and Hp Regen without investing in strength or agility items, this means he can buy full support items (Which mostly give inteligence like force staff, eul scepter and vyse in late game) while still scalling in stats and not focusing all in mana, other supports usually end up with a very big mana bar but very low hp and armor which usually means they end up dying before using all of their mana cause their defenses are so low. And also since Bane is a universal hero he doesnt even have to sacrifice his right click damage cause he gains damage from all stats, so his innate is a very powerful scale tool specially for Core Bane.
Bane's innate is mostly a joke; bane has always had equal str-agi-int gain, and this just takes it to a new level. In terms of actual gameplay functionality, it's really only useful when buying a lot of int items, because the extra hp and armor is more useful than the mana. Who knows, though, perhaps some madlad will craft a right click bane build that somehow makes use of it someday.
Something to note with Chen is that the hero scales deceptively well in the right hands (mostly pro-play). I'm an aggressively mediocre Chen (I've had a dead even 50% winrate on the hero since 2013), but even I've had a lot of success through late game Chen aura stacking. It's one of the best farming, and therefore best scaling, pos 5s, and the value of all the aura items and creep auras should not be underestimated. Plus the hero can become weirdly tanky and surprisingly hard hitting in the late game simply by being a universal hero with good stat gains and items.
Also putting Willow as a pos 5 is dubious, not because she's bad in the role (she's perfectly fine in it), or because she's better as a pos 4 (though that one is usually true), but because when have you actually ever seen a pos 5 willow? One who didn't farm and didn't try to buy aghs and transition into a right clicker? Pos 5 willows don't actually exist.
I kinda felt the same about Willow (and Clock) at first, but then I realized her Bedlam change made her just fine in the role since she she can throw it on a teammate now. And then I was surprised to find out how popular Willow 5 is after checking out both Dotabuff and D2PTracker, even finding out on the latter that she has a higher winrate as a hard support.
She's definitely a tweener between 4 and 5--but for the purpose of this video, which is just to talk about the basics of a character to a new player who doesn't understand certain nuances like the difference between 4 and 5, it felt more right to me than wrong to put her in simply because it's popular enough to make the cut.
And since we're here, just to give a preview, I'm working on part 2 right now and Lion is in the next video, even if I see a lot more Lion 4 than 5. He seems to be popular enough as a 5 according to the stat websites that not including him would just feel wrong at that point.
@@Acex2ron It's probably a good thing too, to introduce potential new players to the concept of pos 5 Willow, since she's a hero that will always be effective in many roles so long as you are good enough against her. And then they can go down the same route as I did, starting out playing willow like a good little support until they get addicted to right click Willow and do it every game whether it's good or not.
Also I guess I'm just old school but I still think of Lion more as a 4 than a 5, just like I had a tough time adapting to support Clock when most of my time playing it was back when it was exclusively core, and support clock has been meta for years now. Meanwhile I will stare you dead in the face and say that pos 5 CK is situationally viable and you should try it, so my concept of core and support is probably just weird.
ty4 this video! i will watch the whole content u created for us.
bane sleep walking is insanely good if you use it with force staff which can push enemy toward the direction you want which mean if enemy is running or tp you use it on him and he walk right into your team ( or cliffTezzy)
usually bane players have to buy eul, force or scythe,... lots of int disabling items so at minute 40 or something bane can get 1 hit by a passing by primal beast. this passive is huge for bane player because it give them some extra strength to survive
Chen main of 10 years (off and on) here to help! (league player since s1 - bard/ziggs main- still active but not as much)
1. Its okay to mess with key bindings for Chen. Its scary at first but I promise that once you get comfortable with the key bindings, you can autopilot him like (almost) everyone else if your brain power needs to be focused on macroplay/pos 5 stuff. 10 years and i changed them again a month ago to what is more comfortable for me on a newer keyboard, and it honestly made each game much easier.
2. Pick at least 2-3 other heroes to play comfortably - but don't let them deter you from learning Chen. It is real easy to find success on a less micro-intensive support - letting you focus on your macrogame far easier. Preferably, pick what is fun and easy for you. For me, I have 3 other main heroes in Dota (Abbadon 4/5, Treant Protector, Enchantress). This helps in the 1 in 1,000 games Chen actually got banned from me.
3. Focus on you. Your team will be your team regardless of how nice/toxic they are. They are required to win the game as Chen especially in lower brackets, it is REALLY hard to solo carry unless you get farm, and that is not easy from Pos 5 when you have no mobility or damaging spells inherently, just creeps and their abilities requiring micro. You have no "support starter item" or any kind of gold sharing (outside of stacking, but that's just another pos 5 thing you will get in time) so if you get jumped, it is really easy to get starved of resources. Focus on your game plan and item timings and be ready to pop ulti when they go apeshit without you.
4. Don't One-trick yet. Similar to point 2, but more of a league focused point. One-tricking in league is relatively easy because the worst champs can have around a 45% win rate even playing into a hard counter. I am one tricking Ziggs at the moment and even into rougher matchups I still feel I have more impact than I would being countered in Dota. Counter picks snuff you out MUCH harder to the point where it can be nearly unplayable (e.g., Enchantress/Doom can just steal/eat your creeps earlier than you can reliably get more). Win rates for Chen look good when they reach 43% in lower brackets. After around 150 games I was sitting at 50% myself and I consider that incredibly good for Crusader where there is less reliable team coordination.
5. You WILL get stomped, but its okay. Dota can be much more oppressive/one-sided than League. If 4 of you get snuffed out, the map is too large to take back consistently, which allows the enemy team to spread out and become harder to lock down and pick off.
6. You WILL stomp. Yeah, this too. Even though some games feel super hard and stressful, you can still reliably get gold off of ulting for assists. With good timing, and a good team (which you WILL get, I promise). Your kit is perfectly tuned for pushing towers and grouping with your team. You have a wide range of utility you can bring with a lot of creeps - and can push really well with the right itemization. If you do good, you can keep your team alive even when they are not doing well, buying them time to farm, push, or take objectives and even potentially turning the game around entirely.
Most of all, have fun. Its a fun game if you let it be - its not if you push yourself to win constantly. Take it at your pace and enjoy :D
One last thing: Another reason why you want to end the game early on chen is the fact that if you lose your jungle - kiss it goodbye because he cant take it back on his own. With no damaging spells, if he loses his creeps and has no jungle to go to - it becomes unfun VERY quickly. Enjoy being a raka ult bot for a few minutes until you can get some of that space back. One or two creeps can be enough that early. Also feel free to mess with builds. Theres a mek/aura focused build that doesnt play around micro as much - more early game pickoff and sustain with Q/E. Mekanism, pipe of insight, and drums of endurance work well with this build. Then, once you are comfortable with your micro, theres the W max. A point in Q/E is fine, but max W as soon as you can and all their base are belong to you. Their jungle? Nah - your army. Build Drums/Vlads/(whatever is necessary for team).
Other last thing since my memory is bad: ENEMIES CAN GET GOLD/EXP OFF YOUR CREEPS. If you aren't careful, you can genuinely feed them gold/xp and put yourself farther behind. I recommend a few games of each style, then picking a favorite until you get more comfortable.
I feel like supports got the most interesting facets out of all the heroes. There are so many bad/pointless/boring facets, and supports got away with the fewest of them.
Disruptor W is great offensively, but being able to completely remove SB from a fight if SB engages crossmap is still huge.
33:51 Did you know thr left talent is much better because the 10+ damage every strike isnt just flat 10 every strike it goes 10,20,30,40 over the base damage the spell does. So thr damage gets pretty high.
So that's 100 damage (before calcs) from a level 10 talent? I'm still choosing the Kinetic Field one, but damn that is noteworthy
IMO a missed opportunity to plug in TI clip where ice vortex gave Roshan vision and shacker was able to echo slam roshpit. It's probably easiest to find as "6000000$ echo slam"
i love the way you explain everything
20:40 - little correction, since 7.36 it doesn't have prolonged duration on creeps. However the damage is drastically increased (quadrupled iirc) so advice is still not incorrect - CM can, indeed, use this ability to farm creeps, starving the enemy carry
He noted that
@@parham1023 he said that it has longer duration. Or im stupid?
Good eye! At 20:46 I put a note stating this!
@@Acex2ronoh, I'm sorry, I'm blind
This was amazing, thanks so much!
Fantastic guide!
Abaddon actually kinda reminds me of taric, with the aoe abilities and healing and still being on the frontline
Bane used to always have the same stats and stat growth and part of the innate existing is to actually continue that meme trend
if u played with good support players u will definitely say that they're the ones who wins the game. from laning perfectly (carries babysitted), rotation(creating tempo/rhythm, being at the right time at the right places), and plays(saves,and catch).
most of my games with good supps end early.
As a bane player(a not so good one)
The ichor innate which distributes stats equally is a good pair with the dream stalker facet......I usually just build around like like I'm using a basic attacker NP
Tryndamere having an undying ultimate: Carry
Abaddon having an undying ultimate:
*S u p p o r t*
Well, tbh, Aba in my opinion always was an extremely flex hero in terms of build and role. Sometimes I built him like a tank, sometimes a classic support, sometimes he is a DPS machine. Very flexible and universal hero
really it's about the rest of the kit. a support being unkillable means they can sustain their teammates and/or lock down enemies in a teamfight for longer (though, this also means that enemies will no longer focus you and will now go after your cores, which sometimes can be a massive downside.). a carry being unkillable means they can dish out metric tons of damage.
Bane's innate isn't "good" per say, but it is very funny since he's always had equal stat gains.
It *can* be nice to guarantee some more attack speed from your stats on average (on a core role), though it's pretty inconsequential. Just a funny innate since it was a unique trait of the hero and Bane was pretty OP before 7.36
that one core yelling "WHERE THE FUCK IS OUR WARDS??!!!"
my dude, you farming across the map where no one but you there, and dead alone on enemy territory
like
HOW TF ME, A SUPPORT SUPPOSED TO PLACE A WARD THERE
As someone who's playing dota 2 and league since launch, this video shows why my favorie role in dota is support and my least played one in league is support. League's support is just... boring compared to this. And the supports you showcased in this part aren't even the most fun ones. Ogre, witch doctor and my main warlock are where it's at, easy, fun and doing insane damage numbers and cc. They solo win games, seriously.
why are supports in league bad?
@@21minus1 They aren't bad, they are still really important to the team but their kits are very one dimentional for the most part (some like lulu and rell do have interesting kits though) but the way they're played is just boring. You just poke your lane opponents or protect your carry depending on the champion and occasionaly ward/deward a bush. Sometimes you can rotate to mid to gank but again you need a specific support type to do that and there's a chance your carry will just die if you do. Considering that the laning phase in league is much more important than in dota, this is very important to the game but it's very boring too. The other thing that's boring about league supports is a problem with league itself. The items are extremely boring. 80% of the items are passive statsticks and the 20% active items, at least the support ones are just click an ally to buff while around them, you buy the item click it once and forget about it being an active since the link doesn't break on death or anything. There are some active support items that actually do something but they're really underwhelming compared to dota's, you have an item granting a shield like crimson guard but the shield is really small and lasts for a very short time, you have a drum analog that just gives your teammates near you move speed for 2 seconds when activated and the most interesting one is a healing item that heals in a huge circle while damaging enemies in it. But it's janky to use in teamfights as league's full of mobility and lacks hard CCs and the item has a delay on the heal, so it's not consistent like mek from dota.
@@GiantBUThead nah if you play not according to guides you can do whatever you want in any game
@@21minus1 That's called griefing and is actually punishable mate.
@@GiantBUThead no, it's playing a computer game
For bane's innate it seems it is for making bane less useless when buying int items since now buying int items will be better with strenght and agi
Force? No no no its persuasion 13:48
People and newcomers might overrate Abaddon because he’s the first one. Umm no. He’s actually not that well known, its just that the list are alphabetical. He’s always been a weird mediocre hero. His ult might sound good but in reality people will just ignore you and not hit you so you cant heal. Just a warning.
Though he got buffed in the last 2 patch and was in the meta as a carry. Last patch he got nerfed and we got this Abaddon, but he’s still viable as a carry.
In dota 1 bane have same base stats and stats gain per level appearancely for no particular reason at all. they imported it to Dota 2 and now Dota 99 it call "innate ability" for shits and giggles. Cheer to all the people explain they do it for some gameplay-improvement tho.
Bane carry is a thing and that passive is absolutely broken imo, for anyone who knows to play dota. There's no counter for bane mid, not even OD can beat it
Skipping right over 'E' so you have enough time to unpack all of earthshaker's... earthshaker, to the league players?
Going by role, actually! Earthshaker is more of a 4 than a 5
Sigh. Crystal maiden was EXTREAMLY powerfull as it was the ONLY hero with 360 degree (no need to wait for turn around) on click frame castable instant disable. It scaled with players reaction and decision making ability, making it an actual pro level character.
Then they put in rubick. Who nut just had this same, but it was a full on stun, and relocation ability (one that was pudge really good for) as position is really important in dota, also it was able to cast ALL stolen abilities in the game like this, making it the most broken hero ever and prolly will be forever.
All games suffer from powercreep, Rubick is a perfect example how they took a uniqueness of a hero and waaay uped it. Yeah the mana regen aura is still a feature, but atm its flat. They prolly gonna turn it into percentage, with a base flat as a powercreep or risk completely remove her or just have it as a consolation pick if they lost rubick.
I'll be waiting 4 IO
Wait, how did bane move while ulting with aghs? Everytime I try to move it doesn't let me, and if I press S it cancels bane and the two illusions ult ._.
You might be accidentally selecting all units instead of just Bane! Normally he should be able to move no problem with aghs
I do want to correct something. Its not true that most pos 5s can be played as 4s. In fact, Jenkins, a high ranking immortal player, said that the most game losing habit in the pos 4 role is playing the pos 4 as a second pos 5, which includes picking a 5 hero in the 4 role.
th-cam.com/video/jVN6kc12pbU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=GUBZuXSs81_KX8Ja&t=172
it is true that SOME pos 5s can also be 4s, but not most.
I agree with this! But remember that this video was made with the context of new players in mind, and that Jenkins' by design is tailored towards people who want to improve at the game. New players wouldn't understand most nuances like the true jobs of Pos 4 and 5, etc, and just want to play a hero/champion that they find cool. This is still an important comment though, and I appreciate you taking the time to write this--just for the players who do end up watching this video and want to grind!
@@Acex2ron Thanks for your reply, i understand what you meant now.
Jenkins words can never be trusted...he loves clowning
@@parham1023 I do agree that he exaggerates for effect sometimes, and memes in his reviews, but the principles he lays out seem very solid. Given his rank, i trust that he knows the game. He is a bit of a troll (offlaner) but i dont think he's so immoral that he would deliberately mislead people just for the memes.
Mention CM
Valve next patch: reduce movement speed by 5
bane has bacome more and more a right clicker (even as support) since it was allowed to hit nightmared enemies, and later when made universal. That's the abusable part of being universal, getting lots of damage and hitting nightmared enemies.
algorithm brought me here #engagement
wait I havent played Dota in a long time, I think I forgot his name, but is Omni knight not a support anymore?
He still used as support, but people prefer used him in Offlane
It is not a killsteal, if your carry dies first.
I still don't understand where Bounty Hunter goes, usually I go 3 but the tool tip says he goes support, some play carry with him, and even rarer is mid, what is he really?
Definitely a tweener hero. I'm gonna talk about him as a 4 mainly because I think that's his best role.
Just finish watching
28:53 Hey I pick Zilean! He's actually a very viable support right now, ok? ;-;
When i see explain support
I though he gonna explain just the jist of it not all of it
bro better be hoping valve doesn't rework those heroes soon after all that explanation
Great channel 👍
The best thing that a support should do is dying first.
i'll be honest, i dont know why i watched this, but i did.
how about enchantress?