Is "Pagan" a Bad Word? | A Discussion on Terminology in Modern Spiritual Movements

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 179

  • @TheWisdomOfOdin
    @TheWisdomOfOdin  ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Let me know your thoughts in the comments. How do you feel about the term “pagan” and how it’s used today? 🤔

    • @DrWrapperband
      @DrWrapperband ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes Pagan is bad, and Christianism is a type of paganism.

    • @robertarnold6192
      @robertarnold6192 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I like it as an umbrella term for humanity’s original religions.

    • @aric2589
      @aric2589 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Jacob, I 💯 agree with what you said about how it doesn't need a label as it is an experienced. It is something we are born into. That is why if I had to give it a name, it would be the 'ancestral faith', as it is more than just a label or term, it is a way of life.

    • @maevelogan6069
      @maevelogan6069 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Pagan is a world label, we as individuals know what we are in our heart of hearts.
      Another term that I find students using in my school is spiritual. One asked me "oh, so you are spiritual?" I find that I like that better than any other label even though I am not offended by the pagan label.
      Safe travels until we meet again.

    • @visibabalika251
      @visibabalika251 ปีที่แล้ว

      This video made me feel good again. I've been very disconected from my self and my faith for so long and i was falling apart and this put me back on path!🎉

  • @noahhecker6672
    @noahhecker6672 ปีที่แล้ว +46

    The fact that you sold all your stuff to travel the world and seek answers to your life’s big questions is something I admire greatly sir. Makes me wanna take the jump and do it myself to a point, what mysteries can be learned from the open road. Blessings be upon you.

    • @TheWisdomOfOdin
      @TheWisdomOfOdin  ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Taking pilgrimages isn't just for monks. It's truly a life changing experience!

    • @Nonameisback999
      @Nonameisback999 ปีที่แล้ว

      He truly does embody Odin here, wandering the world for wisdom! ❤

  • @bizgoddessaudrey
    @bizgoddessaudrey ปีที่แล้ว +18

    You don't believe, you experience. Best takeaway hands down. Thank you

  • @bjornhjorvardssen2336
    @bjornhjorvardssen2336 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    As a filthy heathen and a proud pagan.
    I love this video

    • @aric2589
      @aric2589 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      It sure was a great video, I prefer to refer to our peoples native faiths as the 'Ancestral faith'. As it is something more than just an label, but an experience that we were born into that our ancestors ust to practice. In my eyes, "pagan" and "heathen" are just Antiwhite slurs that were designed to White Erase it.

    • @bjornhjorvardssen2336
      @bjornhjorvardssen2336 ปีที่แล้ว

      @aric2589 there is no anti white conspiracy, you can take that crap and put it back where it came with himmler and goebbels.

    • @kevinwilson-qm5io
      @kevinwilson-qm5io ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Being free is every mans dream, as a pagan there this no greater freedom. Religion rule and law come from Christianity. One religion one god one rule absolute rubbish. Living off the land by the land and the gods is the first and only way in my view…

    • @charlesmaximus9161
      @charlesmaximus9161 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@aric2589
      “Ancestral faith” is just as erroneous as “pagan”. Since I’ve never met a neopagan who didn’t despise Christians and Christianity, with all due respect, I find it odd how so many of you justify the claim of ancestor worship when you clearly have nothing but the utmost disdain and contempt for your Christian ancestors, who have been your ancestors for a VERY long time now. I guess only the cool ones make the cut, no??

  • @willoliver7172
    @willoliver7172 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    I stumbled upon your channel after learning about Norse mythology and I’ve gotta say, I’m in love. This channel makes me feel calm and has me considering becoming a Norse pagan.

    • @TheWisdomOfOdin
      @TheWisdomOfOdin  ปีที่แล้ว +4

      If you do, take it slow and enjoy it! As I say here it's about experiences 🙏

  • @aSandwich.13
    @aSandwich.13 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    Proud Pagan here.

    • @aric2589
      @aric2589 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Proud member of the Ancestral Faith here. I personally prefer to refer to our spiritual faith as the 'Ancestral faith', as it isn't a slur that was used to White Erase our ancestors faiths of the past, and speaks of it as like what Jacob said near the end of the video, to be more than just a label, an experience that you were born into.

  • @mooselady
    @mooselady ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Language is so different wherever you turn, we do not have the word "pagan" in Swedish, only "heathen" which means the same for us, as well as Asatro is the belief in the Aesir gods of the past. I think us and Norway and Denmark use the same type of expressions. We don't have other expressions of these things outside of "hedendom" or "asatro". While in Estonian language the same thing is "Pagan" and the nature belivers are under the term "Mauusk" or belivers of "Taara". And from what I've understood the word asatro, pagan and heathen are a bit different in english. Which again shows: words are words and intent is intent. And whatever you call something talking and keeping an open mind to whatever culture or context you find yourself in will always be more constructive than trying to fit everything into boxes. Very good discussion Jacob! 😊

  • @victoriagilarranz6804
    @victoriagilarranz6804 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Being from the Bible belt in Appalachia, I held these beliefs without label due to fear of being ostracized. I always dodged questions when overly zealous Christians asked me what I believed and answered with "not an atheist, just kinda doing my own thing." I began proudly identifying as a pagan when I realized guarding myself for fear of judgment isn't the way to a fulfilled life for me! I've had so many meaningful conversations and connected with others when I lost my fear of the term. Turns out I'm not so alone in my beliefs, and people just completely drop their gaurd and speak freely when I don't dodge the question! Reclaiming a perjorative term can be very liberating.

    • @evilbrainangelheart9634
      @evilbrainangelheart9634 ปีที่แล้ว

      I always said agnostic around my family. Appalachian families are so hell bent on proving Christian beliefs are the only way. Nice to see someone who has the same mindset.
      @victoriagilarranz6804

  • @hollyfay2432
    @hollyfay2432 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    The term "pagan" originally being a negative term in the past doesn't bother me because it's not typically used in a negative context today. It seems as if we've adopted the term and taken that power from it.

    • @MrFredstt
      @MrFredstt ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yeah. Similar things have been done with other words where people adopted it themselves so as to remove the negative connotation and strip it of it's insulting power

    • @aric2589
      @aric2589 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That is very interesting, either though today it isn't used as much now as a slur to describe our beliefs, I still prefer to not call it by a Antiwhite slur due to history's pass use. I prefer to use the term 'Ancestral faiths'.

    • @Aethuviel
      @Aethuviel ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I just watched the Wicker Man for the first time - there you have an example of a very stuffy Christian spitting out "pAgAn" like it's a curse. 😅 But I agree, it's not typically negative today.

    • @charliejackson5492
      @charliejackson5492 ปีที่แล้ว

      I say the word Paganus.

  • @rctherealist3402
    @rctherealist3402 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I have found saying “I practice European Native Spirituality” works best with whoever. If they are Christian, they will often times say “What’s that?” Or “Wait, We did something before Christianity?” Then that turns into “What happened to it and why did we take on Christianity?” It gets them curious. It makes them start seeking. This is what happened to me actually when I first found the faith, so now I try to mirror that with other people.

  • @vincentkruse7814
    @vincentkruse7814 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Jacob, once more you present a truly excellent, informed, open-minded discussion of our spiritual heritages. As a follower of Hellenismos, or Hellenist, or Hellenic polytheist, the word Pagan isn't my first choice nowadays, rather I would use the word polytheist as being a bit more accurate way to describe my practice. I'm not afraid of the word Pagan because we recognize that the use of the term as a put-down for the ancient Roman Empire non-Christians is part of history. We can redefine a word and put it in our own vocabulary. I read some years ago that the Latin word paganus was also used to refer to a "civilian" - not a soldier of the Christ...?
    You hit the nail on the head with word experience, because we who follow the Old Ways don't have a word for "religion". We experience our gods in our way of life, in our multitude of ways of connecting to nature and to the Gods of our pantheons.
    By the way, I saw your video from Thessaloniki in Greece and was very moved by that. You are terrific and I honor and respect you for what you are doing with these videos.

    • @random2829
      @random2829 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Well stated! Even if we use terms like "Pagan" or "Heathen" to refer to our faith, my first question is usually "Which Pantheon do you follow?". I have also NEVER met a fellow "Pagan" or "Follower of the Old Ways" that has tried to "convert" me to follow their Pantheon. ❤

    • @aric2589
      @aric2589 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Exactly, I too have never referred to myself as antiwhite slurs like "pagan" and "heathen" due to how they were used in the past to destroy our ancestors faiths. I personally prefer to use the term 'Ancestral faiths' to refer to our belief system, as it is more than a term, if is an experience that we are born into and it is higher than us.

    • @charlesmaximus9161
      @charlesmaximus9161 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@aric2589
      “Ancestral faiths”. Interesting term. So you are essentially mocking, deriding, and spitting upon the legacy of literally all your ancestors of roughly the last 1,700 years who have been Christians, however nominally most of them have been in recent years.
      Neopagans: “we honour our ancestors…all except our Christian ones! Cuz to hell with all of them!”
      Or, you’ll downplay their faith by making the wildly erroneous claim that they “never truly converted”. I’m thoroughly convinced that neopaganism wouldn’t even be the subculture that it is without the collective hatred of Christians and Christianity as the very nexus of this postmodern cultural phenomena. I have literally never, EVER met a neopagan that didn’t reserve anything but the most irascible hatred of Christianity and Christians.
      In my experience, almost none of you seem to have a coherent grasp on just what Christianity even is, let alone a basic understanding of what paganism is. You guys see modern Protestant evangelicalism and you think THAT is Christianity. Even the very general term “Christianity” in the 21st century context is a Protestant notion. If somebody tells me they are Christian that doesn’t exactly tell me a whole lot, at all. Yet if somebody compares you guys to Wiccans or New Agers or LARPers, your ilk will bark, “that’s not real paganism!!!”
      My point here is that to even have this conversation in the first place, we need to have a very thorough understanding of both terms before any discussion can ever be had. Too many neo pagans think they hate Christianity when in reality what they hate is the iconoclasm of Protestant Calvinism.

    • @charlesmaximus9161
      @charlesmaximus9161 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@aric2589
      “they tried to destroy our faiths.”
      Ok, first of all, Varg, nobody “destroyed” paganism. Seriously, this is getting really, really old. This is just yet another postmodern whopper packaged in the overplayed middle-class mind games of liberal atrocity porn; the classic “oppressor vs. oppressed” narrative. And it’s not even intellectually consistent. On the one hand, you will mock Christianity for allegedly being “weak”, often citing (incorrectly) the frequently misunderstood line from Matthew 5 about turning the other cheek. And then, in your very same tirade, you will contradict yourself by whining and crying about how “oPpReSsiVe” Christianity is, about how horrible and brutal it is, about how much death and destruction it supposedly caused. So…pray tell, which one is it? Are we a flimsy laughing stock or are we a force to be reckoned with? Because, ol’ chum, we can’t be both.
      And were you not the same commenter that earlier emphasised how pagan ideas of religion weren’t the same as Christian ones? Yet you keep carelessly using this word, “faith”. I wouldn’t think the actual historical pagan approach to spirituality is even based on faith. In most pre-Christian cultures, the so-called “gods” or deities did not even necessarily care if you had any shred of faith in them. They did not even really care if you particularly liked them or not, you just had to deal with them. You essentially sought their favour and a relationship might be formed out of that. But you show me one neopagan that even truly, fully, wholeheartedly believes in Odin or Zeus or Apollo or Tyr or Perun or whatever. At best, you will get some kind of vague jungian explanation as to what the “gods” are.

    • @aric2589
      @aric2589 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@charlesmaximus9161 "Christiantiy" isn't European antiwhite, Westernkind would be still practising the Ancestral faith today if it wasn't for the Whte Erasure of Christiantiy that occurred.

  • @KiraFORTHEWIN
    @KiraFORTHEWIN ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Glad to finally see you in the old country! As a long time subscriber, I was reflecting on your journey with a friend and we are both so proud of how far you've come.
    I was planning to be in Trønheim there right now with my student exchange programme and to go to Midgardsblot but alas! Being in NZ makes for an expensive flight.

    • @TheWisdomOfOdin
      @TheWisdomOfOdin  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      When my main video on Trondheim comes out. You will have a lot of sites to add to the list!
      It’s a pretty city, a bit quiet and maybe a tad boring. But the history is here if you are willing to get your hands a little dirty 🙏

  • @isawamoose
    @isawamoose ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I think Etymology/Language illuminates so much about our past, how certain words like Heathen & Pagan come to mean some sort of spiritual degenerate (in some modern circles) but realizing their context, words like Pagani/Paganos and Heather (apparently Gentile connects to Heathen according to Arith Hariger?) have their roots in Pagan & Heathen.
    And I also believe works like Shakespeare helped conjure this image of the heathen, where scenes like opening of Macbeth show a trio of witches performing their "evil" upon the Scottish "heath".

  • @Alyssa-Breanne
    @Alyssa-Breanne ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I resonate with the message in this video 👍 Glad we are all connected in these experiences together. Keep doing what you do Jacob.

  • @YeshuaHamashiach5791
    @YeshuaHamashiach5791 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Your channel is a blessing. Thank you for doing what you do. Hail odin sire!

  • @MoonandSixpence
    @MoonandSixpence ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Beautifully spoken Jacob!

  • @zacharywinters9413
    @zacharywinters9413 ปีที่แล้ว

    You have definitely caught the eye of Odin I have watched your channel long enough to see you from your apartment,to leavening and starting your travels and he definitely has you in his favor

  • @OdinnVR
    @OdinnVR ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank you for your knowledge, interpretation & your personal experience that you share.

  • @cheyenneoftheshire4652
    @cheyenneoftheshire4652 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think people waste too much time thinking about labels and whatnot. Whatever feels right to you. Roll with it.

  • @Citiglobal88
    @Citiglobal88 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Man you are a great teacher.

  • @Martzoerst
    @Martzoerst ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Experience trumps terminology. Nicely put. I experienced the gods just an hour ago, went out on my boat to fish for mackerel but Tor had other things in mind. Rain started pouring and thunder roared, came home soaking wet and an experience richer.

  • @antoinettedoyle3185
    @antoinettedoyle3185 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Proud Pagan Witch here. Hi from the West of Ireland 😁

  • @Kinsman19
    @Kinsman19 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I think the word pagan is just fine. It’s a good uniter.
    Also, I completely agree with what you said toward the end. Paganism is experienced in the very landscape. This is also my approach and it is the approach our ancestors no doubt had. Great video and summer’s blessings to you as well.

  • @ItsGrail
    @ItsGrail ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So close to 100k jacob! congrats man!

  • @jasonklepacki2655
    @jasonklepacki2655 ปีที่แล้ว

    When I first found this path I remember the day where I was like ok I need to learn. I was in my garage and was thinking about it a lot and reached out to Freya and was just asking for a sign that they are there. I turned to see a cat just sitting in my driveway staring at me. There’s never cats in my neighborhood. The timing is what caught me most of all. It felt like I reached out and got an answer within minutes of reaching out. I had always felt called to nature. Growing up I found comfort and guidance in the woods, connecting with trees and especially with the ocean. And on this path I have words for the things I feel.

  • @revivantes
    @revivantes ปีที่แล้ว

    The emphasis at the end on the experience is very zen-like where immersion in the present moment is such an important element of skillful practice. Very interesting parallels.

  • @MilanM33
    @MilanM33 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    In Lithuania paganism is often just called the old religion or Romuva (the most common neo-pagan movement in the country). The word Romuva is related to "ramus" which means calm or peaceful, which i think very much describes the feeling you expressed in the end of your video.
    The word pagan only entered the language quite recenlty through English, and is mostly used by the younger generation. Also, because it is a loan word, it doesn't really have a negative meaning.

    • @lettenlina1708
      @lettenlina1708 ปีที่แล้ว

      Latvian here! Got nothing to add, just glad to see a fellow baltic here!

    • @MilanM33
      @MilanM33 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lettenlina1708 I'm Dutch by birth, Baltic by marriage ;) got into paganism through Baltic paganism because it's much more accessible (more sources) than lower Franconian paganism

  • @emilyanawalt7703
    @emilyanawalt7703 ปีที่แล้ว

    Absolutely loved your video, thank you so much!

  • @auroralee3165
    @auroralee3165 ปีที่แล้ว

    🌈 This is such a beautiful video Jacob!

  • @jessesloan864
    @jessesloan864 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Cool vid/channel. I'm a Wiccan/Neo-pagan with a MA in cultural anthropology. I formed a pagan religious club at my college, and we once hosted Raymond Buckland. As I grow older, I find myself turning more toward Norse beliefs. I'd enjoy a chat, if you're ever free.

  • @outlander7390
    @outlander7390 ปีที่แล้ว

    I found your channel learning about the Celtic faith, thank you for all the info about the Celites and other sides of things.

  • @lotusdolphin
    @lotusdolphin ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you, thank you thank you! I hate labels! And yes, hate is a strong word, but that’s how I feel. I agree with you wholeheartedly Jacob. Absolutely love where you filmed. That is my Church. Nature.

  • @AJNerdSwag
    @AJNerdSwag ปีที่แล้ว

    A proud Norse Pagan and a damn heathen here! Really enjoyed this video Jacob. Looking forward to your next adventure!
    May the Gods be with you on your journey

  • @kaylarayann3631
    @kaylarayann3631 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love the in depth explanations of the origins of these words and descriptions of spiritual beliefs,I am American aswell and identify as simply "Pagan" now. I have always had a love for the word "Heathen" though as my surname is actually "Heath" due to my ancestors being more wilderness/mountain folk (which being I was born and raised in Alaska,we never grew out of that trait even when coming to the U.S.🏞💚) I always have loved my surname,and the pagan/folk roots behind it. Especially as someone who as an adult is a practicing Celtic/Norse pagan (I defintely honor gods from both as my maternal side is Irish/Scandinavian paternal is Scottish/German) I will always have a special place in my heart for terms like "Heathen" even if they did have a negative context to Christians. Some pagans hear the word "Christian" and associate it with negative things aswell... I think by calling ourselves pagans and heathens we have made it something they cannot use against us. Now though more often then not I meet good people with similar views or those who are curious by identifying myself as pagan. I think meeting others who share my beliefs is worth the negative reactions it may bring about from some who don't. I think Heathen and Pagan are fine descriptions and ways to identify. I always love your videos like this,you are always very informative and detailed. Your channel and videos are always great✨️ 💚😊

  • @kerrybrianna
    @kerrybrianna ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This may be a touch long but you’ve tapped on something I find absolutely fascinating. The origin and formation of words and languages is something that I enjoy studying greatly and have studied it far longer than I have actively considered myself to be a “pagan” of any kind.
    I have always been a touch analytical and always believed that science began where mysticism ended; they are compatible if you don’t have stringent beliefs that ignore and ostracize. So the concept of studying a word and a label like you’re doing is really interesting to both facets of myself as an avid learner and as a spiritual practitioner. I personally have always liked the word “pagan” for its general catch-all-ness in saying I’m the religious “Other” checkbox. I feel the term pagan also suits my current place in my journey to discover exactly what I believe because it says much and little at the same time.
    When I first realized that I was doing performative religion for friends and family rather than actually believing in Christianity, I took a step back. Here in rural Appalachia it’s not much of an option, or at least it wasn’t 10 years ago, to self-ascribe as a non-Christian of any kind. I spent a long time free falling through faith and spiritualism trying to find something to grab onto that felt comfortable and spoke to me and didn’t fly in the face of the rest of my belief system. When I finally grasped at something, it was the calling of a tarot deck and the symbol of the triple goddess Hecate. I started by saying I was a Witch, rather than a Pagan, but as I moved forward, I realized this did not feel whole to me and I wanted to search more.
    Since then I have leaned into learning more about the spiritual practices of my genetic ancestors (like many in Appalachia I am “Scotch-Irish”, aka largely Scottish by genetics) to see if I could find any sense there. Lo and behold, I have found much of a sense of wholeness and familiarity, many of the popularized “pagan” practices I felt a connection to have their roots in “Celtic Paganism”. I found your channel when I was trying to learn more as a result. Though I may not yet go as far as to say I am a Celtic Pagan in the way that you say you are a Norse Pagan, I feel I understand more about my faith and spiritualism.
    In terms of the use of the word “pagan” and its negative connotations in the past, I’m unphased. Words regularly change meanings and if the socially accepted connotation gets enough momentum, it becomes the new denotation. Look at the words “lame” and “dumb” and their origins. Look at the word “zealot”. It’s not uncommon for groups ostracized by the popular majority to cling to their derogatory label to fly it in the face of their aggressors. Look how many “Proud Pagan”s are in your comments.
    It may not do much do describe our spiritual practices but you’re right in your statement that it brings us together. We have strength in our many-ness and our shared experiences even across many different potential deities and practices, moreso than any other sect or religion in the world.
    (Plus, I use someone’s reaction to the word “pagan” as a litmus test for who they are as a person. The way they perceive and act on their connotation of the word means more to me than my own perception of the word.)
    Further, I’ve always deplored the use of “polytheist” and “monotheist” in the self-descriptions of one’s religion or spiritual practices as these are terms more at home in the realm of analytic study. Terms used to describe something from the outside looking in. To break a faith down to “one god” or “many gods” does a disservice to what religion and spiritualism really are- tenets, connection, practices. They are living organisms with many facets, not simply the god or gods they look to.
    Opinions aside, I think this is a super interesting topic for sure! I’d love to see more conversation and discussion starters like this one.

  • @johnrococo982
    @johnrococo982 ปีที่แล้ว

    I haven’t watched your channel In about 3 years. Wow ! You’ve grown a lot ! Good for you man. Love it

    • @TheWisdomOfOdin
      @TheWisdomOfOdin  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Welcome back! I recommend any of the videos I have made in the last few months. My Isle of Skye video in particular I am very proud of 👍

  • @Софа-ф6щ1м
    @Софа-ф6щ1м ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm not a Norse pagan particularly, but I am a pagan! I do feel comfortable with the word, kinda an umbrella term for a lot of stuff.
    Glad to see nice people in the comment section. We are all so different and its cool and I respect you eternally!
    Thank you for the video! Well made

  • @hathorsheathen
    @hathorsheathen ปีที่แล้ว

    I really appreciate the content you put out. It's well thought out and presented

  • @paulabruce-pt5jn
    @paulabruce-pt5jn ปีที่แล้ว

    This is the second time I've watched this video, and I'm looking forward to the next.

  • @theshiftwork
    @theshiftwork ปีที่แล้ว

    Fab! Thank you and I agree no labels

  • @MilanM33
    @MilanM33 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    In Dutch "heide" is a specific type of landscape caused by deforestation that were primarily used for keeping live stock (nowadays they are considered a fragile natural ecosystem although it's very much a man-made landscape). Although "heiden" (heathen) has a negative connotation even nowadays, I love that it relates to the landscape/farming.

  • @davem9654
    @davem9654 ปีที่แล้ว

    Soul soothing.

  • @shadowdragon3521
    @shadowdragon3521 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    In the past "pagan" was used as a pejorative to refer to non-Abrahamic belief systems alongside synonymous terms such as hellene, gentile, and heathen.
    I don't have a problem with taking ownership of previously derogatory terms and turning them into something more positive. Especially considering there aren't other words to convey the same meaning as pagan which were not also used as pejoratives in the past.

  • @raversfantasy
    @raversfantasy ปีที่แล้ว

    I’m not a Norse pagan (Irish) but I love your channel. Unlike other religions, we love and accept each other despite having different Gods/Goddesses and I think it’s so beautiful. Cheers.

  • @Hippo_Croca_Pig
    @Hippo_Croca_Pig ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Personally, I don't like the term Pagan. This is because living in England which has a majority atheist/agnostic population (Although we have a sizeable and growing Islamic community, which presents issues separately.) and I have found that when I use the term Anglo-Saxon Pagan the level of ridicule and disdain those around me display is off the charts.
    So when asked I usually explain about how I worship the gods of our Anglo-Saxon ancestors.
    I find this gets a much better reception overall.

  • @mikeblei6870
    @mikeblei6870 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think you're right. We do label ourselves too much and try to fit in. We're all looking for our spot in the world, in society and we should be doing that less often.

  • @VoodooViking
    @VoodooViking ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Agreed on experiencing. Living in Louisiana it’s so damn hot outside. Yet I can’t stand being inside very long. Just feel the pull to being outside even if it’s just sitting on the porch.

    • @random2829
      @random2829 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      90+ degrees and 90+ humidity. Yah, I feel you!

    • @VoodooViking
      @VoodooViking ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@random2829 plus I got beehives and a pond, orchard and grove of bald cypresses in the back. Also I make mead, so get a bottle and go sit out in the back in the evenings with my pipe.

    • @random2829
      @random2829 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@VoodooViking Get rid of the skeeters and you would pretty much have Heaven on Earth! Oh, and get rid of those banana spiders too! Nothing like being on an early morning hunt and running into a banana spider web! 😆😆😆

    • @VoodooViking
      @VoodooViking ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@random2829 I’m north of Baton Rouge. Don’t have much of either. Now we get the occasional brown recluse or moccasin, nothing different than anywhere else. Other than that it’s other bugs

    • @random2829
      @random2829 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@VoodooViking My Aunt recently moved to New Roads from northeast Louisiana. She seems to really like it there.

  • @mikehart5619
    @mikehart5619 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Fascinating discussion. I don't think we should drop "Pagan" because it was a negative label placed on non-Christian European polytheists. Methodist is a similar term given out non-Methodists meaning fanatical. I think it's wise for those of us who need to be careful about inviting persecution to avoid the term "Pagan" because for non-Pagans it often still has negative meanings. Among ourselves, I think it is perfectly ok to call ourselves Pagan or Neopagan or get more specific as to what path within Paganism we follow.

  • @luckanLK
    @luckanLK ปีที่แล้ว

    hey dude do you recommend any good jewelers that create good material pendants , rings etc nordic themed ofc :)
    Been looking into the paganism passed few weeks im super new to it but so far loving your vids !

  • @McHoochWerks-gu1pk
    @McHoochWerks-gu1pk ปีที่แล้ว

    Good subject and coverage of it.

  • @Nonameisback999
    @Nonameisback999 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This video really made me wonder how much of a better world we might live in if the Christians simply stuck with that "soft conversion" method. Imagine how much knowledge of the old ways could have survived and how many people would still practice this faith today if the christians simply converted the willing and left us be... Its tragic, our religion was essientally persecuted into near extinction because the followers of the christian god couldnt accept that others followed different gods.

  • @Slim_Nady
    @Slim_Nady ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Another great video as always Jacob! I agree with what you mentioned about the negative context with words like “pagan”and “heathen.” Atleast not as much as there was back then. Maybe it’s because I live Kentucky just as you did so you prolly know where I’m coming from on this, but I still get s look when the topic comes and I believe that the negative association still comes from this modern ideology of what those terms mean. When our religion is mentioned it’s commonly associated with Vikings which there’s so many tv shows and movies centered around them. And I don’t believe the religion itself is properly depicted as opposed to the nature of the people within the films if that makes sense.

    • @TheWisdomOfOdin
      @TheWisdomOfOdin  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      America is such a different beast. Here in Europe people are very shy of the terms around their beliefs. Where is in the states there is still the taboo around non-Christian subjects.
      Like you said a lot of this comes from perceptions around tv shows and media. Which means it’s even more important for us to speak of these things more casually and openly.
      I found that “spirituality” does get a less aggressive head turn from Kentuckians 😂

    • @Slim_Nady
      @Slim_Nady ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TheWisdomOfOdin crazy when you really think about it. Not even exactly just our faith but others as well are seen in this light because it’s not the “norm”

  • @007hwm3
    @007hwm3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I agree that labels and terminology just create unwanted arguments. Let's just talk, discuss and travel as to speak and see what amazing discoveries we can learn together 😊

  • @jamesgibbons5705
    @jamesgibbons5705 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Slavic Paganism is quite interesting to me as my heritage And I wish I could get into slabic paganism

  • @nicolehaugen9265
    @nicolehaugen9265 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think we gravitate towards labels because we as human beings are still "pack animals" we thrive in communities and look for connections to other like minded individuals. As you stated, in the past there was little to no need of these self labels because we were born within a community and practiced the beliefs of that community. In the modern world this is just not the case and labels help us to find each other.

  • @jeanettewaverly2590
    @jeanettewaverly2590 ปีที่แล้ว

    Some people overthink things.

  • @ArthyrPathfinder
    @ArthyrPathfinder ปีที่แล้ว

    I like that ... "Norse Cosmolog."
    Say this at first as a half joke to myself when looking at myself ... "Hello, I am Hauk ... a Norse spiritual cosmologist!" .... and realize ... That's actually quite true. A Norse pagan but it zeroes in more to the way they look at the universe. Beyond the gods even ... to the essense of Yggdrasil and the pathways and realms within.
    You've given me more to consider and think on just with that one line.
    Thank you. And now to watch the rest of the video.

  • @MikefromTexas1
    @MikefromTexas1 ปีที่แล้ว

    Maybe to some of certain beliefs... which one reason I embrace it and use it as the name of our faith.

  • @jbbburg8633
    @jbbburg8633 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video as always, and being a rebel I love telling people I’m a pagan.

  • @steveramsey8415
    @steveramsey8415 ปีที่แล้ว

    "Pagan" was a Roman/Christian term meaning country dweller or of the country for those that did not believe in the christian faith. I am so glad that we as "Pagans" took the name for our own.

  • @MarcelGomesPan
    @MarcelGomesPan ปีที่แล้ว

    I think using terms like ”Pagan” or ”Heathen” is fine for convenience and ease of communication.
    I kinda avoid ”Asatru” for the same reasons as you do and have at times used the term ”Forn Sed”.
    At one time i was doing a libation from a horn in a thunderstorm to the strong Aes and a neighbour saw it.
    She knew exactly what i was doing ( and i live in the Swedish ”Bible belt”).
    As i practice and experience i need no name for it beyond that practice and experience itself.
    However, in casual communication and even academia labels are needed.
    The fact that ”Pagan” and ”Heathen” has been used as detogatory terms almost gives them more power ( a bit rebelious ).
    It wouldn’t be the first time a group wears a derogatory term as a badge of honor…until it becomes one.
    On personal level i think people should call their practice what they want…or nothing at all.
    It is theirs.

  • @AnneliseBlackbriar
    @AnneliseBlackbriar ปีที่แล้ว

    Interesting video. I grew up Christian in the S.E. United States and don't remember pagan ever having a negative connotation. However, heathen definitely did, but it was not used in a religious way. People would use it to describe ill behaved children causing a ruckus.

  • @unlucky_chozo1445
    @unlucky_chozo1445 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can I ask where you got your Mjolnir? I saw it upclose on one of your thumbnails for another one of your videos and wanted to know where to find it. Thanks!

  • @jonatinthegreat3690
    @jonatinthegreat3690 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’m very curious of as to how you’re getting money and or getting food and charging your devices.

    • @TheWisdomOfOdin
      @TheWisdomOfOdin  ปีที่แล้ว

      Im not traveling the railroads like a 1930s hobo 😂 I stay in airbnbs. I have been a full time content creator for nearly 3 years 👍

  • @brigidwell
    @brigidwell ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I follow the Greek gods, and the term "Hellenic Polytheist" isn't much more appealing for many of us either. From my perspective, I just follow the old gods - so why does there have to be some kind of niche micro-label for it? Sure, I'll click it in a survey just for correct counting purposes, or I'll type it in search bars to find community, but many of these labels don't adequately reflect the grandeur of the beliefs in the eyes of their practitioners.

  • @daveo2797
    @daveo2797 ปีที่แล้ว

    The word “pagan” started to become something more than a derogatory insult as shown in this passage about the poet Walt Whitman made by William James in his lecture “The Varieties of Religious Experiences” written in 1901:
    "Whitman is often spoken of as a ‘pagan.’ The word nowadays means sometimes the mere natural animal man without a sense of sin; sometimes it means a Greek or Roman with his own peculiar religious consciousness. In neither of these senses does it fitly define this poet. He is more than your mere animal man who has not tasted of the tree of good and evil. He is aware of sin for a swagger to be present in his indifference towards it, a conscious pride in his freedom from flexions and contractions, which your genuine pagan in the first sense of the word would never show." (James then goes on to quote Whitman’s poem “Song of Myself” as follows:)
    "I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and self-contained,
    I stand and look at them long and long;
    They do not sweat and whine about their condition.
    They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins.
    No one is dissatisfied, not one is demented with the mania of owning things,
    Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that lived thousands of years ago,
    Not one is respectable or unhappy over the whole earth. (Walt Whitman’s poem “Song of Myself”)​"

  • @colmmcnaughton2152
    @colmmcnaughton2152 ปีที่แล้ว

    G’day from the Dingle Peninsula, Co. Kerry, Eire. I am from Melbourne Australia in Eire re-connecting / re-imagining to the Old Ones and their ways. Because there has been so much violence and destruction in these lands (and the lands of Oz) if I am going to label myself and the community I am part of, it has to be neo-pagan, because any form of paganism from Europe is fragmentary and thus needs to be re-imagined/ re-invented.

  • @scotcompston
    @scotcompston ปีที่แล้ว

    More terms we have the more divided we become

  • @shaunnicholson-ul9xt
    @shaunnicholson-ul9xt ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi pagan and proud have been since 1997 and we getting stronger the old ways. ar back

  • @BaldersVasall
    @BaldersVasall ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice to see a fellow beliver in the old ways 🙂

  • @NegiTaiMetal011
    @NegiTaiMetal011 ปีที่แล้ว

    I feel that people tend to judge quickly of what paganism is. I was raised Catholic and I grew to question the church and it's dogmas, and I find Norse Paganism interesting. This I feel is something I found meaningful apart from all the dogmas I feel restricts on living your life. I certainly learn a lot from this and I go to just experience paganism along with these other beliefs. Skal to you.

  • @BoneGoddess
    @BoneGoddess ปีที่แล้ว

    Own your past. Own your heritage. And take your weaknesses and judgment from others as your power

  • @jeneendove906
    @jeneendove906 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    ❤Thank you for sharing this information. I am a pagan I am a happy witch.

  • @CillianRangarsson-u2h
    @CillianRangarsson-u2h ปีที่แล้ว

    I am a really proud Norse from Dublin Ireland lord Odin and lord Thor are my gods I am learning a lot more about the gods

  • @random2829
    @random2829 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I do not consider the word "Pagan" as "bad" but I say that I am a "Follower of the Old Ways". The words "Pagan" and "Heathen" were words for - essentially - "country folk". You could replace "Pagan" or "Heathen" with "hick", "red neck", "country bumpkin", etc. But when talking to people of other faiths I have used the term "Pagan" to refer to the fact that I do not follow an "organized" religion.

    • @agentcazu
      @agentcazu ปีที่แล้ว

      I use "Follower of the Old Ways" too and "Pagan" when talking to others or some legal paperwork that asked what religion I practice.

  • @nightangel486
    @nightangel486 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just finished a re-read of Margot Adler's drawing down the moon, which was an interesting recap of the history of paganism and Wicca in the US.
    To me personally "heathen" for some reason still has negative connotations, I think bc it's been more recently used that way even in a joking manner ("filthy heathen etc)
    It made me wonder how much things in America have shifted away from specific Wiccan groups and into broader Pagan groups, or is it still the same..?

    • @TheWisdomOfOdin
      @TheWisdomOfOdin  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hmm well in my understanding of things. Most Wiccan practitioners do not adhere to just the God and Goddess. That often is a gateway to the larger "Neo-pagan" polytheistic practices. Most Wiccans I have met are typically more "Celtic Pagan". But as I say I think we can get a little too caught up labels when the reality is it is all about the collective spiritual experience.

  • @sandralozano1049
    @sandralozano1049 ปีที่แล้ว

    Te etiquetaré...alma libre!

  • @toddthorson5318
    @toddthorson5318 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Another wonderful video! Takk min Vinn!!

  • @Aethuviel
    @Aethuviel ปีที่แล้ว

    I am ambivalenet on the word. I don't think it's negative, and while I prefer to use Germanic words as much as possible, "heathen" is more commonly used as a negative. In any case, "pagan" is such an umbrella term, and can technically mean any non-Abrahamic religion or spirituality (although I understand Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs don't "need" to use it, but they can be considered pagan). As for modern or reconstructionist spiritualities, anything from Wicca to Odinism can be considered "paganism", and hundreds of others, so the umbrella is almost too big.
    In general though, "I'm a pagan" can basically be interpreted as "I am a non-Abrahamist engaged in some form of ancient or reconstructed spirituality tied to nature and natural cycles" - I think.
    But others prefer not to use this word at all, and prefer to use a specific word, often because Christians and seculars get an "ugh, cringe" reaction at the word "pagan", but if you say you're a "polytheist" or an "Odinist" or what have you, they don't have a preconceived notion and can be a bit more like "oh, okay".
    I don't have any personal experiences with this though, and like I said, I'm ambivalent, everyone can use the words they like.

    • @Aethuviel
      @Aethuviel ปีที่แล้ว

      You gotta love my phone... ambivalenenet?

  • @emilykestrel5446
    @emilykestrel5446 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I usually call myself a pagan, because it’s the most well known term for my beliefs. I’m probably more of an animist, but fewer people are familiar with that term. And anyway, as you said, it’s the experience, not the label that matters.

  • @michaelrichardson989
    @michaelrichardson989 ปีที่แล้ว

    In modern UK street slang i think "pagan" is used to describe someone who is untrustworthy and/or someone who leaves one gang for another.
    Perhaps this has something to do with Jamaicans being either Christians or Rastafarians, viewing those with pagan beliefs as "unbelievers"

  • @jessevanhalen6967
    @jessevanhalen6967 ปีที่แล้ว

    You rock Jacob! Fvck the haters! ;)

  • @babawill14
    @babawill14 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A true pagan cares not about offense taken by mere words.

  • @bert72686
    @bert72686 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    To me, the word pagan is like the so-called N-word. Once it was a bad word, and then it was claimed by the very people it was used against.
    I noticed pagans, like to pretend the forest is the most peaceful place, but that is also a new thing. I grew up in the mountains and never paid any attention. It was not until I left the mountain that I realized why everyone who came there talked about how peaceful and beautiful it was. I suspect the pagans of old had no idea .

  • @Kusuma-w5t
    @Kusuma-w5t ปีที่แล้ว

    I am from Indonesia I am interested in following the Norse religion

  • @BlessedCitizen101
    @BlessedCitizen101 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Still hands down prefer the old content. Was more down to earth and relatable because the average Joe shmoe doesn't travel internationally. WAS extremely useful to practitioners, especially new ones. Now it is opinions and info about sights that the majority of us pagan or not will never see, the old topics about where and how to start practicing is what is missed. I fear that this may end up just paying for someone to live out our dreams instead of understanding them.

    • @TheWisdomOfOdin
      @TheWisdomOfOdin  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      "Now it is opinions and info about sights that the majority of us pagan or not will never see"
      That is the entire point. There is so much hidden out there to pagans particularly in the USA. Not everyone can travel, and so if people (like myself) do not go and report on these things. Then we will remain ignorant to the places that European pagan practices were birthed.
      I will come back to the states. Life is a constantly evolving thing, that I do not pretend to understand. For now I am called to travel (spending the same monthly $ amount as I was just living in the states mind you.)

    • @BlessedCitizen101
      @BlessedCitizen101 ปีที่แล้ว

      Very true but there were/are and will be historical/traveling TH-camrs. Your original core audience was not originally drawn to this type of content. That is what I am specifically pointing out. The current content and obviously future content will consist of mostly sight seeing unfortunately. Current content lacks the unique substance that originally brought hungry seekers of knowledge when it came to practicing the faith. Not historical sights with origin stories.

  • @AErikReynolds
    @AErikReynolds ปีที่แล้ว

    Sæl everyone, in my opinion pagan isn’t really a bad word but in some religions it seems to still holds its negative connotation and serve their purposes of dividing the community.
    I oftentimes use the word heathen instead of pagan but still use both depending upon what I am trying to say or point that I’m trying to convey.
    I’m looking forward to our next gathering or function in northern Kentucky or around Cincinnati.

  • @Nyxxie_Lunari
    @Nyxxie_Lunari ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm not against the word pagan. Pagan means to me as a variety of different ways celtic, norse, wicca, etc...
    2 is there any way your videos can be organized. I will say i watch 2 of thor but not watch 1 cause it's not in order. It would make things easier for all newcomers. I have been watching your videos for a few months maybe more and the one thing i struggle with is that. I love learning but don't wanna get confused hoping to thor 2 and then to freya 3.

  • @KatAstrophe878
    @KatAstrophe878 ปีที่แล้ว

    In german we don't really have a word for "pagan", only for "heathen" and they both mean the same to us (pagan having latin roots and heathen germanic roots).
    I believe by taking a word that was once used as an insult against your folk and "wearing" this term with pride takes it's negative powers away. People once had to be afraid to be labeled as pagan/heathen because of the following violence they had to experience. So whenever I say "I am heathen" I am saying it with my mind on my kin and folk that once had to suffer directly under christianisation and I say it with power and pride to honor them and take back what has been taken from them/us.

  • @julianthegodmusic
    @julianthegodmusic ปีที่แล้ว

    I for sure identify as norse pagan but I now look at the meaning differently. I forget to include all parts of history in all parts of the world in which people worshipped more than one god

  • @sewisinc.4545
    @sewisinc.4545 ปีที่แล้ว

    As someone with a scientist background (degree in Biology and always being interested in science), i have a tendency to search for names for thing. Call them labels or terms, I don't know. However, I used the word pagan, heathen, and polytheistic almost interchangably. But mostly pagan for sure. I don't exactly adhere to it because I have not renouced the Christian god but adopted the Norse gods to my believes. Odd, I know, but that's how I feel about it. Kind of saying his because after two years following your channel, I feel like I have to be honest here. lol

  • @amberraynepeltier9386
    @amberraynepeltier9386 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    When I was following the Norse deities, i proudly referred to myself as Pagan. Now I am technically a Folk Catholic Polytheist (yes ik that sounds crazy, i don’t need to be told) but I still have utmost respect for the word and those who identify as Pagan 🖤 your content is very thoughtful and inspiring, thank you!

  • @thestillroombotanicals2932
    @thestillroombotanicals2932 ปีที่แล้ว

    I guess it was a negative term to Christians-but I’ve never been a Christian (in this life)so I don’t have a negative association with the term “pagan”. I agree though, the label itself can’t encapsulate each individual’s beliefs and experiences.
    Like you, I prefer not to label something that’s so sacred to me.

  • @auroralee3165
    @auroralee3165 ปีที่แล้ว

    " Hello, my name is jacob and I am a Mossy Forest"😊 Naw..Norse Pagan sounds just right.

  • @viggovesa
    @viggovesa ปีที่แล้ว

    I use the term "pagan" to identify my beliefs to other people, if in need of a short explanation, bur otherwise I do not call myself a pagan, as it feels sort of wrong and forced. I work with, live and breathe the old forces I call gods and draw inspiration from the times of my ancestors. If someone asks me what my religion is, I´ll just say I´m a Finnic pagan, but to myself I am just doing what I feel natural and right, without the need to label it.
    Also "pagan" has a bit of shock value in it in this town full of christians so that´s a nice plus ;)

  • @Alasdair37448
    @Alasdair37448 ปีที่แล้ว

    The word pagan actual comes from the roman word Pagans which refers to the people living outside the cities because it took a lot longer for those not living in the cities to convert over time this came to refer to non-Christians because everyone in the cities had already been converted. I think this is an appropriate term for such a widespread group of faiths that all have one thing in common - a reverence for nature. Not to mention that if wicca can reclaim the word witch then their is no reason that pagan cant also be reclaimed.

    • @Alasdair37448
      @Alasdair37448 ปีที่แล้ว

      Its not uncommon to see negative terms taken and turn around by the people it was used against my favorite is the Onion knight in game of thrones this was used to belittle him because his parents were onion farmers he was not of nobel birth but when he became a knight he started to fly the onion as his standard. Although fictitious it a great example of reclaiming something that was meant to be an insult.

  • @paulabruce-pt5jn
    @paulabruce-pt5jn ปีที่แล้ว

    I live in a small community that is heavily populated by LDS church members. I DO feel the negative stigma here.

  • @charliejackson5492
    @charliejackson5492 ปีที่แล้ว

    As Roman Pagan i sometimes use name Religionary instead to protect and rest off the word pagan and how horridly horridly horridly its been misused and bastardized.

  • @TaylorAP13
    @TaylorAP13 ปีที่แล้ว

    Only thing I don't like about the terms pagan and heathen is that it feels too general. Although there are similarities I like to differentiate between different groups. Norse pagan, Celtic pagan, etc. I also prefer to use terms like Asatru which feels most individual I guess. Imo pagan feel like a way to generalize a bunch of minority faiths. The main thing the pagan beliefs have in common is they were persecuted by Christians, otherwise there are tons of details that are unique to each group and culture and putting them all under this umbrella term is pretty lame to me. I also feel like it separates those of us who legitimately worship or are new and learning how we want to worship (like myself) and those (like many in Wicca) who frankly don't know the history, the cultures, lore, etc. that surround these beliefs and just do it as some sensationalized party/social phenomenon that makes them "interesting" or "unique." I don't think the term pagan or heathen is really negative though, I just prefer more detailed and specific terms. Great video!

    • @TaylorAP13
      @TaylorAP13 ปีที่แล้ว

      Also feel like that sensationalism of pagan faiths, Wicca, etc. turned me away from becoming Asatru for a long time because I thought it was something ravers did to be "cool." Then I discovered there are real worshipers who actually care about the faiths and culture. Found your videos and have been pursuing spirituality and knowledge ever since. So thank you!

  • @dubcount
    @dubcount ปีที่แล้ว

    Why can't we all just be One and in connection with all and all in connection with us no division and no misunderstanding. The need for persona and or closed identity on the whole is exhausting.

    • @TheWisdomOfOdin
      @TheWisdomOfOdin  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I have been in a few circles, where everyone has different beliefs, with little need to define them. The key is to create an environment where all beliefs can be a shared experience. However this can also not be good. If I work with norse gods, I will always be more inclined to learn in that "norse" lens. Just as someone else may prefer Celtic, or Greek.
      So while unified "oneness" can be possible In some instances. I do believe we need to be aware of the multiple pathways people take individually and collectively.

    • @dubcount
      @dubcount ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TheWisdomOfOdin I agree you need a foundation otherwise we are a rudderless ship. I think however that its a fine line between our foundation defining us in pricabils rather than essence, we can then become losts in the sea of a defined movement this if not carefully crafted can create dogma a horrible word and even worse pathway. I love in the true sense your work and your courage a wonderful gift in such difficult times Thank you.