Just wanted to post an additional comment dedicated to thanking Robert for another excellent video! All these videos where you interview one or another industry or domain expert are so packed with valuable nuggets of information, knowledge and other insights.
Thank you Robert. This is amazing content to give away for free. In my opinion your paid certifications as well as all the free content you put out is absolutely indispensable for a beginning hardware engineer such as myself. This is helping me grow leaps and bounds as well as give some direction to all there is to learn in this domain.
Thank you so very much for this video Robert. You are truly an asset to our community. You addressed so many questions from so many people that have been working in this field. One note, I always use A/C for diodes because there is no consistency among our peers as to pin 1 = cathode or anode. Even downloading from Altium's MFG Part Search will yield different symbols across diodes as far as to what pin 1 is denoting.
Robert , I am working on electronic HW design for one EX (Explosive product for processes industry ) I used some of free site to pick up footprint , they where all wrong some layer was not right at all , as Tom says at end of your video, no body knows about footprint, I remember one of our design should fit in very tight enclosure , mechanical dimension of parts should be accurate as 0.1 mm , with PCB library tools we generate all symbol with right mechanical size ( step file ) , so mechanical engineer could check in their software that there is no collision with other mechanical parts , PCB Library tools is the one , is the only one that can make all these foot print , you get standard foot print on all layer , , it is great tools from my experience
Robert , @52:47 talking about square pad vs oval , vs soft corner edge pad ( PCB Libraries ) , if you look at square PAD on the microscope on you PCB, when they get small , they are never have 90 degree sharp angel , etching process can never make 90 degree sharp angle , that is reasons you should always have some soften corner ( at least I do it an all my PCB , which take a lot of time even on shape )
Thanks for a very informative presentation, Robert! One comment about the chart with mismatched standards at around 1:50:00 - Don't worry that the standards don't match each other, there is still more work to be done when it comes to standards (and standardizing the standards, ha!) Anyway, the point is, when the assembler buys parts on a tape and reel they are in a specific orientation, usually pin one on the left. The orientation on the reel can be thought of as zero degrees rotation. If you build your library footprint in a different orientation, the rotations in your pick and place data files will have to be "adjusted" by the assembler. It is nice for them if rotations match, but you are correct that they do these adjustments to your data all day every day. no worries. Great presentation! thanks again.
I've been doing some layouts for several years and thought I was reasonably good at it. This video was fantastic and makes me feel like I was some kind of weekend hack! LOL. Great work! Great information from you and Tom.
Really great stuff. I already spent a good amount of time on researching on this very topic to set up our component library and I think this video is the most condensed information on the topic that is out there so far (along with the documents/blogs from Tom). And I still learned something new.
Robert , @1:21:19 talking about BGA , and solder mask, Tom talk about solder mask that BGA PAD get smaller and smaller , so they want solder mask cover the PAD. and drop test show it work , Actually those small BGA with small PAD have Microvia on PAD which it nail to layer under it , so it is not whole true about soldermask on pad
i was too much confuse about make Footprint...EasyEda Software are make auto footprint but i saw they do many mistake... now i am going to make all of my hardware for our company with suggest your video and footprint rules....
Around the 12:00 mark when your guest was talking about Class 3 boards: did he mean to say that the PCB manufacturer has a legal liability if the customer can prove that failures are the result of the PCB manufacturer's work? That is pretty interesting. Thank you for the video, Robert!
Hi, superb video on this topic. Been using this software for a while and it's brilliant. Learnt a few things from this which never crossed my mind. I understand the main focus has been on SMD components, would like to see more on PTH components.
Thank you Dimitrios. I have never really had any special problems with pads or footprints for through hole components - usually the problems where: fitted the wrong way or thermal relief (GND through hole pins connected directly to internal power planes makes it hard to solder).
@@RobertFeranec Hi, understood. I should have been a bit clearer regarding through hole components, I'm using in a project some pcb terminal blocks which have lever type cage clamps for up to 8 AWG and concerned on the mechanical stress of the soldered joints when using the levers. Even though the manufacturer has recommended foot prints for the through hole pads, I'm just naturally concerned. This could also apply to any type of connector to a pcb when mechanical forces come into play for insertion and disconnection.
4 ปีที่แล้ว +21
Thanks for another amazing video! Do you have any plans in the future to create a video about grounding, ground planes and how to separate grounds for digital & analog circuitry in real life project? I found it difficult, since everything I found on the internet are just very abstract examples that doesn't help to ground properly in the actual project
Thank you Lukas. I do not have any special "grounding" project what I could use for video. But maybe I will meet or find someone who is working on these kind of projects ... and we could make a video about it in future. Adding on my list of possible future videos. Thank for tip.
Anybody seeing this now, he now has an excellent video on ground planes. I concur with the conclusion of that video to not separate ground planes. The industry is moving away from split ground planes because it generally causes issues and the only benefit is your mindset of keeping digital signals separate from analog when routing the board. It may be a good practice to separate them during the design phase, and then change it to a single ground plane after. Because that will keep you in the correct mindset when routing the board.
@@Cracked1ce a couple of video’s ago you can see cooperation with Eric Bogatin and in the comment part of the video a free code to 3 months of signal integrity academy!! (Like 1200 a year usually). I followed the SI course and its already detailed about the return plane (gnd). I recommend you to check.
Thank u so much for this video Robert but I found some funny visual I was wondering what is behind at you at 1:51:58 duration clip Tom was looking behind at you 🤩
Hi Sir , Thanks for the very much informative vedio I have learned a lot from this . Great . I have a question if there is no land pattern defined in the datasheet only the package dimensions .Than how do u decide about the footprint .Like Pad Length ,or the Pitch between the two rows of pins . what calculation logic is used . Thanks
Any thoughts on using circular solder paste apertures for the exposed thermal pads? In past jobs we've used configurations like that, but I was never made aware of any benefits of doing this.
So true, this was the first point I really disagreed with. Everything so far has been fantastic information, but tolerances will never go away. What he is describing is "screening" parts, which many (if not all) of the major electronics suppliers and PCB suppliers already offer as a service for an additional fee. So, from that perspective, I agree with him, so maybe it is just a semantics issue.
Hello Robert, beautiful video! Thank You))) Can You repeat somthing more after clips in your own words,. It's hard to understand their English, but yours is easy. Best Regards Stepan Russia
Wow, that video had a lot of good information! Thank you! One question: Why does the assembly company have such a big problem identifying pin 1? It seems like there can be multiple ways you can provide this data in your release package. You can include the assembly drawing or the overlay (legend) as separate gerber layers, either of which may show pin 1. In addition, you may have a pdf version of the assembly drawing which you can provide with your release package. Is it just that there is no standardized way of providing that information in the gerbers that makes it difficult? How about providing them ODB++ or IPC-2581 files, does that help?
A lot of TVs are made to class 1 standard like TCL and Hisense this is why they’re cheaper. I know for a fact Samsung is a class 2 product hence the higher price tag.
Class 3 isn't necasirely more expensive. Often to make board to comform to Class 3, one would need to use higher clearances, bigger traces, bigger holes, higher accommodation for manufacturing variability, to compensate, etc. It basically changes the design rules, to ensure bad things don't happen. This usually also means one can't create as dense designs as in Class 2. The reason it is more costly, is because of if you really need "Class 3", you are not going to chase the lowering of the cost as the objective, and want traceability and guarantees on the manufacturing chain, including things like registrations. Even if they are the same as in Class 2 board.
Well, to add more confusion to the zero orientation topic :) What about zero orientation of components on the bottom side of a PCB, when generating a pick and place file? Lets assume we use the "IPC Level B" convention, where "0°" means "pin 1 on bottom left": Is the rotation of a bottom mounted component 0° when pin 1 is on the bottom left in the "bottom view" or in the "through board view"?
2:11:58 Pretty sure there are some mistakes on that QFN Land Pattern Details page. Thermal-to-land and Land-to-land gaps surely can't be 2 mm. Maybe it was supposed to be 0.2mm?
Yeah well not so much "least amount of copper" @28:10 for RF designers, more like the right amount of copper or layout that achieves the best match for RF power transfer between source and load.
1:35:20 That's how I often feel at my apartament, just from the loud neighbours :D Actually, I was wondering, in that case, should one design a single 0603 for all of the used caps/resistors with 0603 size or should we follow each 0603 component (if let's say each component is made by different manufacturers) datasheet... I was importing components in Altium and found that each manufacturer is using different pads, it would drive me crazy seeing each 0603 resistor to have different footprint! :D
Hello Robert, really good content, explained a lot. After this video, I was thinking about the schematic. Does exist some of the standards for the symbols library? How correct show the Schottky diode or Zener diode. Which symbol better use for the inductor and so on. Which dimensions use for all these symbols that they are good looks.
Thank you Roman. There may be different standards e.g. resistor as a rectangle vs as zig-zag ... I am making a note, maybe I will meet someone who is expert into that ...
I just wish for one thing in the future...manufacturers making parts with same dimensions. I don't mind tolerances, but please make the same footprints. Why does one have to make 0,2mm longer legs than another or have different thermal pad on the same size QFN -.- If it is a special footprint with 4 thermal pads or missing legs with a good reason and will fit only specific part it is no problem, but if it is a standard part (0402, 0603, QFN, SOIC, SOT, SOD,...) please please make it a standard. All these problems with names and tens of footprints are just because manufacturers don't have the same case. Or this one...0603 or 0805 LED polarity...the same manufacturer put a triangle on the bottom of green and blue LED pointing to the cathode but then reversed the marking for the red one. But wait...you order the same size LED from the same manufacturer just with the frost lense instead of clear and the marking is reversed again... What about diode polarity in a tape...put anode toward the holes, or cathode i don't care, just make it the same. Designer could make one footprint that fits his needs. If he is an RF designer he will probably not start mass producing toys next week. And if he changes company they will have a whole new library waiting for him which is optimised and tested in designs they normally do. I like simple standards, specially if they will help others down the chain. I ask my PCB manufacturers if they would like me to change anything, but normally they just don't bother because they are used to so much crap they receive from others. We have small assembly line, and I try to help them too. I really hate when someone with too much money thinks they have to make part just a little bit different so customers can't easily change manufacturers.
@@RobertFeranec now only I saw the video fully. Thank you very much. I am planning to apply for a CID do you think do we really need the certificate????
Hi Robert, Would like to see your video about creating footprint and proper connecting USB-C connector to Atmel 328P :) I would like to learn how to do that and create all my future Arduinos with USB-C only.
Just wanted to post an additional comment dedicated to thanking Robert for another excellent video! All these videos where you interview one or another industry or domain expert are so packed with valuable nuggets of information, knowledge and other insights.
Thank you Robert. This is amazing content to give away for free. In my opinion your paid certifications as well as all the free content you put out is absolutely indispensable for a beginning hardware engineer such as myself. This is helping me grow leaps and bounds as well as give some direction to all there is to learn in this domain.
Thank you very much Francis
Only 880 likes? come on this is quality content. Give the man a like.
Oh, I just love how you just kept the video rolling when the construction started and didn't edit it out. I feel your pain and I'm laughing over here.
Videos from experts like Robert are always great!
A 2 hour footprint video holy shit buckle up boys
Thank you so very much for this video Robert. You are truly an asset to our community. You addressed so many questions from so many people that have been working in this field. One note, I always use A/C for diodes because there is no consistency among our peers as to pin 1 = cathode or anode. Even downloading from Altium's MFG Part Search will yield different symbols across diodes as far as to what pin 1 is denoting.
Clicked 👍 just by watching the title. Much needed. Thanks again.
Let me know also after you watch it if you liked the content. I learned a lot when creating this video.
Great video! Got some new ideas from it. Time to add new revision to all my vault parts!
Robert , I am working on electronic HW design for one EX (Explosive product for processes industry ) I used some of free site to pick up footprint ,
they where all wrong some layer was not right at all , as Tom says at end of your video, no body knows about footprint, I remember one of our design should fit in very tight enclosure , mechanical dimension of parts should be accurate as 0.1 mm , with PCB library tools we generate all symbol with right mechanical size ( step file ) , so mechanical engineer could check in their software that there is no collision with other mechanical parts , PCB Library tools is the one , is the only one that can make all these foot print , you get standard foot print on all layer , , it is great tools from my experience
I always watch full advertisements on your videos to support you.
Thank you very much Ashutosh
Robert , @52:47 talking about square pad vs oval , vs soft corner edge pad ( PCB Libraries ) , if you look at square PAD on the microscope on you PCB, when they get small , they are never have 90 degree sharp angel , etching process can never make 90 degree sharp angle , that is reasons you should always have some soften corner ( at least I do it an all my PCB , which take a lot of time even on shape )
Thanks for a very informative presentation, Robert!
One comment about the chart with mismatched standards at around 1:50:00 - Don't worry that the standards don't match each other, there is still more work to be done when it comes to standards (and standardizing the standards, ha!) Anyway, the point is, when the assembler buys parts on a tape and reel they are in a specific orientation, usually pin one on the left. The orientation on the reel can be thought of as zero degrees rotation. If you build your library footprint in a different orientation, the rotations in your pick and place data files will have to be "adjusted" by the assembler. It is nice for them if rotations match, but you are correct that they do these adjustments to your data all day every day. no worries. Great presentation! thanks again.
Thank you Jack. We did speak about this with Tom, I left it out from the video.
I've been doing some layouts for several years and thought I was reasonably good at it. This video was fantastic and makes me feel like I was some kind of weekend hack! LOL. Great work! Great information from you and Tom.
Thank you Rick
Really great stuff. I already spent a good amount of time on researching on this very topic to set up our component library and I think this video is the most condensed information on the topic that is out there so far (along with the documents/blogs from Tom). And I still learned something new.
Thank you Sepp
Robert , @1:21:19 talking about BGA , and solder mask, Tom talk about solder mask that BGA PAD get smaller and smaller , so they want solder mask cover the PAD. and drop test show it work , Actually those small BGA with small PAD have Microvia on PAD which it nail to layer under it , so it is not whole true about soldermask on pad
As a hobbies this was a lot of information. But sure will be more careful next time a create a custom footprint. Really liked the content.
Awesome video. Lots of great information with outstanding commentary. Keep these types of videos coming!
Thank you dvatp
Great information Robert! Very useful for everyone, with or without experience. Thank you!
Waiting for your next videos! So many interesting topics...
Thank you very much gain asp
I see the title and the length and I know this video will be awsome.
Thank you so much Robert Sir for this Video !
Excellent video 👌🏻👌🏻...learnt a lot from this.. thks
i was too much confuse about make Footprint...EasyEda Software are make auto footprint but i saw they do many mistake...
now i am going to make all of my hardware for our company with suggest your video and footprint rules....
*With diodes, it’s just relevant, I myself faced how to mark pads in order to avoid mistakes.*
Around the 12:00 mark when your guest was talking about Class 3 boards: did he mean to say that the PCB manufacturer has a legal liability if the customer can prove that failures are the result of the PCB manufacturer's work? That is pretty interesting.
Thank you for the video, Robert!
Great video, Robert, so much good information!. Thanks for posting.
Hi, superb video on this topic. Been using this software for a while and it's brilliant. Learnt a few things from this which never crossed my mind. I understand the main focus has been on SMD components, would like to see more on PTH components.
Thank you Dimitrios. I have never really had any special problems with pads or footprints for through hole components - usually the problems where: fitted the wrong way or thermal relief (GND through hole pins connected directly to internal power planes makes it hard to solder).
@@RobertFeranec Hi, understood. I should have been a bit clearer regarding through hole components, I'm using in a project some pcb terminal blocks which have lever type cage clamps for up to 8 AWG and concerned on the mechanical stress of the soldered joints when using the levers. Even though the manufacturer has recommended foot prints for the through hole pads, I'm just naturally concerned. This could also apply to any type of connector to a pcb when mechanical forces come into play for insertion and disconnection.
Thanks for another amazing video! Do you have any plans in the future to create a video about grounding, ground planes and how to separate grounds for digital & analog circuitry in real life project? I found it difficult, since everything I found on the internet are just very abstract examples that doesn't help to ground properly in the actual project
Thank you Lukas. I do not have any special "grounding" project what I could use for video. But maybe I will meet or find someone who is working on these kind of projects ... and we could make a video about it in future. Adding on my list of possible future videos. Thank for tip.
Anybody seeing this now, he now has an excellent video on ground planes. I concur with the conclusion of that video to not separate ground planes. The industry is moving away from split ground planes because it generally causes issues and the only benefit is your mindset of keeping digital signals separate from analog when routing the board. It may be a good practice to separate them during the design phase, and then change it to a single ground plane after. Because that will keep you in the correct mindset when routing the board.
@@Cracked1ce a couple of video’s ago you can see cooperation with Eric Bogatin and in the comment part of the video a free code to 3 months of signal integrity academy!! (Like 1200 a year usually). I followed the SI course and its already detailed about the return plane (gnd). I recommend you to check.
@@remy- kkkkkkkkkk9kkkm00kkkkkkm0m99kkkkkm
@@remy- kkkkkkkkkk9kkkm00kkkkkkm0m99kkkkkm
Thanks Robert, fantastic video
Thank you Robert. Very informative content you put out.
hi fedevel. this video was really great and complete.
do u have such this about creating library? (complete and great vide?)
tnx.
THANK YOU Robert
26:50 and subsequent, Tom talks about "most density level" as have particularly large pads. Surely he means _least_ density level.
Thank u so much for this video Robert but I found some funny visual I was wondering what is behind at you at 1:51:58 duration clip Tom was looking behind at you 🤩
Hi Sir ,
Thanks for the very much informative vedio I have learned a lot from this . Great .
I have a question if there is no land pattern defined in the datasheet only the package dimensions .Than how do u decide about the footprint .Like Pad Length ,or the Pitch between the two rows of pins . what calculation logic is used .
Thanks
Any thoughts on using circular solder paste apertures for the exposed thermal pads? In past jobs we've used configurations like that, but I was never made aware of any benefits of doing this.
Tolerances may get smaller, but they will never go away...
So true, this was the first point I really disagreed with. Everything so far has been fantastic information, but tolerances will never go away. What he is describing is "screening" parts, which many (if not all) of the major electronics suppliers and PCB suppliers already offer as a service for an additional fee. So, from that perspective, I agree with him, so maybe it is just a semantics issue.
Good information for a beginner like me.
Thank you Michael
Very useful video. Thanks for that.
*Thank you very much! Very interesting topic !!!*
Thank you Catcatcat electronics
Thank you very much
thanks, very helpful video! 👍🏼
Hello Robert, beautiful video! Thank You)))
Can You repeat somthing more after clips in your own words,. It's hard to understand their English, but yours is easy.
Best Regards
Stepan
Russia
Thank you Stephan. I am very happy, that some people find my accent easier to understand than native english speakers.
What's your take on voltage spacings related to ipc 2221?
Wow, that video had a lot of good information! Thank you!
One question: Why does the assembly company have such a big problem identifying pin 1? It seems like there can be multiple ways you can provide this data in your release package. You can include the assembly drawing or the overlay (legend) as separate gerber layers, either of which may show pin 1. In addition, you may have a pdf version of the assembly drawing which you can provide with your release package. Is it just that there is no standardized way of providing that information in the gerbers that makes it difficult? How about providing them ODB++ or IPC-2581 files, does that help?
thanks tom !!! keep it up
A lot of TVs are made to class 1 standard like TCL and Hisense this is why they’re cheaper. I know for a fact Samsung is a class 2 product hence the higher price tag.
Cách tạo Dấu chân PCB hoàn hảo chia sẻ tuyệt vời
Class 3 isn't necasirely more expensive. Often to make board to comform to Class 3, one would need to use higher clearances, bigger traces, bigger holes, higher accommodation for manufacturing variability, to compensate, etc. It basically changes the design rules, to ensure bad things don't happen. This usually also means one can't create as dense designs as in Class 2. The reason it is more costly, is because of if you really need "Class 3", you are not going to chase the lowering of the cost as the objective, and want traceability and guarantees on the manufacturing chain, including things like registrations. Even if they are the same as in Class 2 board.
Thank you movax20h for your feedback.
Good video, but I normally see your videos at 1,75 speed and everytime this guy talked I had to slow down the video!! Hahah
Well, to add more confusion to the zero orientation topic :)
What about zero orientation of components on the bottom side of a PCB, when generating a pick and place file?
Lets assume we use the "IPC Level B" convention, where "0°" means "pin 1 on bottom left": Is the rotation of a bottom mounted component 0° when pin 1 is on the bottom left in the "bottom view" or in the "through board view"?
Interesting question, I should check that, just because I am curious now :)
Ok, I had a look and ... it looks like rotation is exactly the same between top and bottom components vs pin 1 position. So TOP view only.
@@RobertFeranec This is how Altium handles it?
Best Content Ever!
Thank you alien ock. It was a lot of work, but I also believe the content is interesting - I learned a lot when I was creating this video.
@@RobertFeranec Sir What You have ever created is always amazing.Youre the Best Sir!
2:11:58 Pretty sure there are some mistakes on that QFN Land Pattern Details page. Thermal-to-land and Land-to-land gaps surely can't be 2 mm. Maybe it was supposed to be 0.2mm?
Yeah well not so much "least amount of copper" @28:10 for RF designers, more like the right amount of copper or layout that achieves the best match for RF power transfer between source and load.
yes he have right ! its art ...
:)
1:35:20 That's how I often feel at my apartament, just from the loud neighbours :D Actually, I was wondering, in that case, should one design a single 0603 for all of the used caps/resistors with 0603 size or should we follow each 0603 component (if let's say each component is made by different manufacturers) datasheet... I was importing components in Altium and found that each manufacturer is using different pads, it would drive me crazy seeing each 0603 resistor to have different footprint! :D
Sir plz can u tell me how to put bidirectional symbol in schematic design & m w8ng for ur rply
Hello Robert, really good content, explained a lot. After this video, I was thinking about the schematic. Does exist some of the standards for the symbols library? How correct show the Schottky diode or Zener diode. Which symbol better use for the inductor and so on. Which dimensions use for all these symbols that they are good looks.
Thank you Roman. There may be different standards e.g. resistor as a rectangle vs as zig-zag ... I am making a note, maybe I will meet someone who is expert into that ...
I just wish for one thing in the future...manufacturers making parts with same dimensions. I don't mind tolerances, but please make the same footprints. Why does one have to make 0,2mm longer legs than another or have different thermal pad on the same size QFN -.- If it is a special footprint with 4 thermal pads or missing legs with a good reason and will fit only specific part it is no problem, but if it is a standard part (0402, 0603, QFN, SOIC, SOT, SOD,...) please please make it a standard. All these problems with names and tens of footprints are just because manufacturers don't have the same case.
Or this one...0603 or 0805 LED polarity...the same manufacturer put a triangle on the bottom of green and blue LED pointing to the cathode but then reversed the marking for the red one. But wait...you order the same size LED from the same manufacturer just with the frost lense instead of clear and the marking is reversed again...
What about diode polarity in a tape...put anode toward the holes, or cathode i don't care, just make it the same.
Designer could make one footprint that fits his needs. If he is an RF designer he will probably not start mass producing toys next week. And if he changes company they will have a whole new library waiting for him which is optimised and tested in designs they normally do.
I like simple standards, specially if they will help others down the chain. I ask my PCB manufacturers if they would like me to change anything, but normally they just don't bother because they are used to so much crap they receive from others. We have small assembly line, and I try to help them too. I really hate when someone with too much money thinks they have to make part just a little bit different so customers can't easily change manufacturers.
I agree
Thanks
In component datasheet they recommend a recommended footprint details. We can use those details right ???
Do we need to know about these standards ???
I asked the same questions :)
@@RobertFeranec now only I saw the video fully. Thank you very much. I am planning to apply for a CID do you think do we really need the certificate????
Honestly, I do not know. I am not sure what companies consider this certificate.
Your neighbour drill as Murphy's law says
hello robert, I can't access the pcblibraries page, can you post a free version on google drive so I can experience it, thank you so much
The best would be if you maybe contact Tom. PS: Or maybe try again, I just double checked their website and it works oki. Let me know then.
Hi Robert,
Would like to see your video about creating footprint and proper connecting USB-C connector to Atmel 328P :)
I would like to learn how to do that and create all my future Arduinos with USB-C only.
I do not have any examples for this .. yet
The way I see it, IPC is the baseline, not the best practice.
1 HOURS 34 minute are Funny moment...hahahaha...for contraction....
lol @construction works