When wires are twisted together the resistive load of the wire nut is zero because the wire nut isn't need to create the connection. The push in and Wago add a resistive load because there is no direct connection between wires. They're connected by a thin piece of metal inside the housing, so the probability is higher for failure compared to the wire nut.
In the 50 years I have been doing electrical wiring I have never had a wire nut joint fail. I have had many push in joints fail to the point I quit using them 40 years ago.I see no advantage in wago connectors.
No, this is wrong. What you're saying is that current doesn't flow through the nut. That is not true. With the nut removed, current does not flow through the nut, and the nut is not needed to make the connection. However, when the nut is attached, current does flow through it, and therefore it can still heat up. In fact it will heat up also because of the heat produced by the current passing through the twisted pair of conductors. What you folks are suggesting is that the current flowing knows that the metal threaded insert of the nut belongs to the nut and decides not to flow through it. That is clearly nonsense, as there is no way the current can know that the metal of the nut belongs to the nut and is not part of the wire.
I use stranded wire for all my electrical projects as it's easier to pull. The Wago connectors are so much easier to make connections with, and is all I use now. I also use commercial/industrial backwire clamp receptacles instead of trying to make a J hook around a screw. If I have to like on a light switch, fixture or something, I'll keep the insulation on at the end of the wire to keep it from fraying. Someone else did one of these extreme overload tests, and Wagos performed better with stranded wire as there was more contact surface area. Either way, I don't think you'll run into issues with those under normal operating parameters. The breaker should trip long before the plastic even gets soft on a mild overload. As seen here, 40 amps only made the connector a bit warm.
I'd be interested to see some wire nut connectors that are used in less than perfect conditions (without pre-twisting the copper wires in advance): 0. control of pre-twisted wire 1. clean straight wire but barely twisting the wire nut 2. clean straight wire but really torqueing on the wire nut until the insulated portion visibly starts twisting as well 3. wire pair used previously together in the same wire nut, uninstall the nut, separate the wires, put wires back together matching original twist, install new wire nut of same size 4. wires used previously in separate wire nuts combined into a new pairing, roughly straighten wire ends with pliers until they fit into the original wire nut size 5. wires used previously in separate wire nuts combined into a new pairing, no straightening, just jam them together into whatever oversize wire nut is needed to get them to fit
Thats a really good outline for a systematic test. I was also thinking of an old pair of very tarnished copper wires twisted and untwisted (similar to your 3,4,5 but perhaps without having some tarnish scraped off by handling).
A few more options, maybe on seperate tests, but how about varying gauges of wire together, and stranded+solid. And do same gauge and like the lighting style 18 guage.. it should fail first but I've found that connecting small gauge lighting wires is easier than two like sized stranded and solid counterparts. I think mostly because you offset the smaller gauge stranded farther in, and the wirenut gets into some "meat" of both. While the same gauge stranded might encompass the whole solid wire and the solid will pull out, or the stranded is to far back and doesnt get enough under the screw down. I think it goes without saying you cant really twist them together properly because the stranded gives way too easily for the solid to do any twisting. I'll always prefer all solid wires, at least for our standard circuit sizes here in the US, 15-20amp, 14ga, and 12ga.
Great ideas here fro future video tests. I am an electrician and really appreciate these videos as they explain what I see in my real world repairs. For sure I would like to see some not well made connections with corroded or tarnished copper and degraded Aluminum. Not twisted and remade connections.
@@Sparkeycarp I'm so glad you like the videos! I would be fascinated to hear more about what you have seen in real situations with problems. For a tarnished corroded connection, I think the only practical way to test that is to get an old connection from a junction box that has been removed from an old house. If anyone is gutting an old house or otherwise removed a junction box that has not already failed and are willing to send it to me, it would be interesting to test. Same for some Aluminum 12/2 from the 1970s, and even better if its attached to a vintage outlet and we can see how the connection might have degenerated. I'm in Ottawa (Canada) so it would be really easy if someone nearby came across some stuff like that.
The Wago held up perfectly, until it didn't- which is also perfect. In an over-current situation that's the behavior I want to see. They're a second fuse. Engineering perfection. I don't want a connection to hang on until all my walls are on fire.
I think it failed in that way partly because of me touching it with a screwdriver to see if the plastic was softening. So if left alone it may not fail as cleanly. But either way, took an impressive amount of current.
Well that awesome test concluded what I already experienced with the backstab outlets aka speedwire. I've replaced burned up devices, and it seemed to have occurred after a space heater or air conditioner was running. Sometimes the outlet had nothing plugged into it when it burned out, because it was passing current to the rest of the circuit. In fact my employer would look at outlets and switchs to judge the laziness or lack of, the newly hired employees 🙂 Speedwire was a sign of someone who just wanted to finish a project in the least amount of time and didn't take as much pride in quality workmanship, looping around screw terminals meant the employee took pride in his or her work, and had the best interest for the occupants of the home.
Many mobile homes burn because of their cheap products and quick assembly times. The same places that end up with portable electric heaters and window bangers.
Speedwire / backstabbing receptacles should never be used without a pigtail. Speedwire connectors should not be used as a junction for downstream outlets. This is one reason they have a bad rep. Poor best practice to use the screws as a junction for downstream outlets as well. I don’t judge fellow electricians for using speedwire, I judge them for using any part of the receptacle as a junction vs making a pigtail. Almost a 30 year Master Electrician and have probably installed a million receptacles, all with pigtails. Probably most of the receptacles installed on a 15 amp circuit were installed with the speedwire connector.
Would of been interesting if you threw in a commercial a d industrial spec grade receptacle that has "BACKWIRE" terminals: the ones you do indeed put the wire in the back but you have to tighten down the terminal and it clamps the wire firmly. Also they are of better construction so it be interesting to see how hot they get
I know the terminals you are talking about. I have had a number of requests to test receptacles - had thought of those - will be real interesting to see how much better they are.
Though the construction of these outlets is stronger, I find that they strip out when tightening. Also, many people end up getting the insulation behind the terminal because they push the wire in to far. The cheap outlets are the best. If you pigtail and twist your wires using wire nuts, the stab in holes are just fine, because most of the current running on the circuit runs through the pigtail and not the outlet. Also, if you use the screw terminals on the side of the cheap outlets, you can crank those things down like nobodies business and they will not strip out.
@@zinsco That interesting and surprising. I wonder why the "better" ones tend to strip? I would have expected them to have no worse threads. I get the bit about people pushing the wire in too far - I'm sure that happens a lot.
@@cdoublejj I sorry - I just saw your comment - no idea why it didnt show up 4 weeks ago! The easiest way is to go to your favorite hardware stores web page on receptacles and order in terms of price. They show up between the cheapest ones and the fancy designer ones or ones that have features like USB.
I have heard horror stories about those push in outlets - and some commenters have also told of their bad experiences with those outlets. I'm really surprised that CSA and UL still certify those outlets - they seem to have such a history of failing. I guess the only good thing is they are in (hopefully) in a metal outlet box that contains the fire.
@@ElectromagneticVideos I'm not familiar with CSA. I wonder if either organization follows up with field reports on things they approve in the lab. Or at the very least, periodic testing of up to date production versions to see that they're still viable.
@@joewoodchuck3824 CSA is the Canadian equivalent of UL. Both organizations certify stuff in both countries and elsewhere. You know, I don't specifically know if they do follow up on reports on things that happen in the field. I would have assumed they do since for example changes happened after houses wired with Aluminum wire started burning down in the '70s. It could be that outlet fires have simply been well enough contained to fly under the radar, possibly with pressure from the manufacturers. Certainly not an impressive showing for the entire electrical industry to have those things still in production and use!
Thank you for confirming my suspicions about wagos and any other barbed type electrical connection method; they’re weak, they have reduced surface area contact and when overloaded they will generated higher electrical resistance and heat sooner than with standard Marrs and Marrette connector, and of course wire binding terminal screws found on all electrical outlet devices (switches, receptacles, etc.). Good demonstration
Thanks - I appreciate that! Stranded - so lamp cord perhaps? I'll bet none of the connectors would do as well although the lamp cord may burn up before the connector. I'll put that on my list. I should look up European wiring - I think (?) they may use stranded for standard house wiring.
@@ElectromagneticVideos in the uk we use twin (very similar to your type of wiring) in Europe I believe they use singles (7 strand) in conduit (more of a flexible cable) and I don’t actually think we can legally use wire nuts anymore in the uk so it would be interesting to see if the wagos handle it better than the wire nuts (Wago person myself tho)
@@adamdavis2788 Interesting that your cable is similar to ours and not to the European way of doing things. I had read somewhere that way back when wire nuts were introduced to the UK that the initial ones were defective/unreliable/hazardous or similar and they were then (with good reason) banned. Now that I have an IR camera I probably will do a similar test as above but with more insight into which heat up fastest, and maybe some stranded cable. In Iraq and South Africa, both places that used British plugs and 230V, I remember seeing terminal strip type connections for household wiring - a plastic trip with multiple connectors. Each connector was like a small tube with a screw at each end - you put the wires in each end, tightened the screws and were done. Always liked them - easy to use, easy to undo, nice and solid. I use modern versions of them for industrial and control type applications but they are never used in residential wiring over here. Are they at all used in the UK? What did you use before Wagos?
@@ElectromagneticVideos before wagos we used terminal blocks in domestic situations now the only time we really use them is when we need to connect two 10mm or larger cables together (not done that often) even tho the connector blocks are completely fine to use
The yellow twist on connector ( Marrette) is designed to be installed on untwisted wires. The black set screw connector is called a Marr. Both are Leviton products.
The yellow one is a twist-on type connector, possibly an Ideal Wire-Nut which can have straight or twisted wires. The black one is a Marrette (AKA Marr) for straight wires. Good twisted wires don't really need anything except an insulator such as good electrical tape to have a good electrical connection. Codes may not allow it, though.
Great demonstration. It would be interesting to measure the temperatures during the experiment with an infrared thermometer that displays a color image of various temperatures.
You should try this with commercial or industrial grade devices with back wire contacts: two interlocking serrated brass plates with a screw to clamp them together. Similar to a simple screw terminal, but they don't require a hook in the wire and appear to have more current-carrying cross-section. Also, that 14 AWG wire is probably what's heating up the screw terminals.
My house was built in 1956. The #14 circuits have to be hooked to 20 amps for the load to hold. A lot lot of receptacles are bakelite. It doesn't melt. It just crumbles. Most of the older wirenuts had set screws. I was surprised. 🐀🐾
Interesting! So is that 14/2 wire or some form of separate #14 conductors? I have a lot more confidence in Bakelite than some of the modern softer plastics. I read somewhere is was a really revolutionary product. And your wire-nuts with screws - some of the better or higher temperature ones still do! Do you have any of the receptacles that support both the modern and old style plugs with prongs 90 degrees rotated from what we are used to?
@@ElectromagneticVideos There were a few, but they've been replaced. I thought some of the 20 amp plugs had a sideways neutral. Lowe's still sells those plugs.
@@djratino Yes - modern plugs with one of the pins sideways as you describe is the standard 120V 20A and the receptacles for it have a T shaped slot to fit both 15A and 20A plugs. And similar foe 240V 15A and 20A plugs.
I think any connection relying on spring tension will fail over time due to heat. The best connections are the twisted kind with a crimp. But that's if you're not willing to use thermite 😂
I’d love see you test wago vs wire nut, with 4 or 5 wires in each. I currently wire everything with wago lever style connectors and I’ve yet to have an issue. I feel like they are superior to wire nuts one you get to 3+ wires in the same connection. I find it very difficult to get 3,4,5 wires twisted perfectly into a nut without at least one of them being loose and sloppy. Too much room for error imo. With wago connectors, all the wires have the same connection no matter how many there are.
You make a good point about a wire nut with many wires - I will try and test that sometime. Unfortunately because of the toxic fumes I do these tests outside and as we move into fall weather it becomes less feasible to experiment outside. So I cant make any promises when. Having said that, I'm keeping my eyes out for something I can make into a simple fume hood which would mean I could so some of these smaller tests in the comfort of my basement workshop as the weather gets colder.
I will look into doing that! I have a 100A DC battery charger that might be able to do the equivalent mimicking the DC from a vehicle. I haven't had much experience with auto connectors. You listed a few - what would be the top 5 (maybe the most common or failure prone?) for a test?
@@ElectromagneticVideos with automotive connectors it not really the connections (if done right) it the corrosion that occurs over time. Some connectors are better sealed than others
@@ElectromagneticVideos I would say the two most common series of aftermarket connectors for automotive use would be the Deutsch and the Metripack. Both series offer different max current connectors. For Deutsch: 1. DTM =max rating of 7.5 amp per pin continuous. Max AWG 16Ga with appropriate pin and socket (0460-010-20141 Pin PN, 0462-005-20141 Socket PN) 2. DT = max rating of 13 amps per pin continuous. Max AWG 14Ga with appropriate pin and socket (0460-215-16141 Pin PN, 0462-209-16141 Socket PN) 3. DTP = max rating of 25 amps per pin continuous. Max AWG 12Ga. For Metripack (Delphi,Aptiv) 1. 150 series = max rating of 14 amps per pin continuous. Max AWG 14Ga. 2. 280 series = max rating of 30 amps per pin continuous. Max AWG 10Ga. If you don't have the crimp tooling already the initial investment might put you off from testing these. But it is an awesome video idea that I know many people would find useful. The biggest thing that always gets highly debated is how the knockoff Deutsch connectors (most common on amazon under JRReady brand) compare to the real Deutsch connectors and pins (easily ordered from Prowireusa.com). I wish I had access to a big DC current controlled supply so I could perform the testing myself :).
@@SpeedNessRx7 I'll have to see if any of the crimp tools I have would work with those connectors. Not a fair test of they arnt properly crimped. If you can get an old school non-electronic 100A battery charger or old school non-electronic DC arc welder and hook either to a variac you can probably do it. Will need a DC clamp on (or in-line) ammeter - many are AC only. Happy to help and offer suggestions if you want to try it!
When I replaced all the receptacles in my mobile home, many of the original ones had ONLY push-in connections. No screws available. And the manufacturer used them as junctions also, without pigtails, which means the whole load of the branch circuit was traveling through the first push in connection. Some of the receptacles were physically broken into pieces. I replaced everything with spec grade receptacles which didn't even have push in connections. I wired them in with pigtails wherever possible so the screw terminals were bearing as small of a load as possible. The main reason I did this was to upgrade everything to tamper resistant outlets since I've got a small child in the home. However the massive upgrade to the connections is more than welcomed. Before replacing the receptacles, the lights would noticeably dim when turning on a vacuum cleaner. That no longer happens. I also replaced all the light switches, using commercial grade parts. Half of them were physically broken. I'm amazed that they were still working, although they felt very mushy instead of clicking into place.
You answered something I had been wondering - does anyone use those push-in connectors. Talk about a manufacturer skimping to save a few $! You sure went from the worst to the best! And its interesting to see a visible result of doing the improvement. Your kid is so lucky to have a parent looking out for safety like that! What a great story that started with a really bad situation! Thanks for sharing!
@@djratino if it were up to me, those stab in connections would be outlawed. Who in the hell ever decided they were safe? It seems like the only ones that don't cause problems are the ones which don't get used.
@@djratino I have not heard one comment with favorable story about receptacles where those connectors were used. They really seem like ticking time bombs!
I would love to see videos testing different breaker brands and trying to trip them by applying heavy loads. It would give some excellent data about which breaker is the most safe to use.
I like this idea however it will take a large sample size of each brand to get any kind of conclusive results. Only testing one or two or even 10 of each brand wouldn't be all that accurate considering the level of mass production at hand.
Your absolutely right about needing a huge sample size. And maybe even bought at different times to get different manufacturing runs. I would like to test one of the infamous Federal Pioneer ones though!
This is what I find a little disconcerting about the recent trend toward Wago push connectors. When you look at the contact surface area of push or guillotine connectors, the surface area of direct contact is much smaller than that of a twisted pair. Add a little moisture and corrosion, and you get jacking of contact surfaces, with corrosion prying the old connection apart. We did something similar in the 80's, and professionals initially loved the idea because they could save a minute for each receptacle. It was a few years before guys started seeing major problems. Is the Wago so different that we can be confident we aren't making the same mistake?
Most of the issues I've found is due to people not ensuring a solid connection, usually outlets first, usually those stabs, but alot of it is also very old and has corrosion. I wouldnt doubt that alot of the ones involving the screw down connectors had more to do with not cleaning the corrosion off before reconnection. Whilst I might be shaving a few nanometers of material off and technically downgrading the current capacity, the fact that it's all withing the connection area, a larger section of the wire, and the added resistance from corrosion, I'd say you are probably best off always cleaning the surface of clearly old wires that are no longer shiny, let alone something that has turned green lol. Only time I've seen problems with wirenuts was once again either some bad corrosion that wasnt ever dealt with, or just improper application of the wirenuts. I've actually seen alot of 14 going off to an outlet/ light on a 20 amp run, and since I'm not the boss, we dont usually try to replace it with the customers approval, but for how often I've seen it, I've never seen it being involved as a catalyst for casing melting down. I am not sure I've ever seen a push style or wago in any of our jobs existing. We're pretty rural and it's mostly alot of old residential that we deal with. Only time I've seen the push in style are built into can lights really, and most of which are new with us installing them, so I guess I have seen them and used them to a degree. Weve probably replaced one that had that built in but it's hard to remember all of the work weve done.
@@spelunkerd WAGO's (var-go) 222 series lever connectors have been in use for about 20 years now and 221 series close to 10. They aren't the only types of spring clamp connectors either, which as a class of connector have been around for quite a long time. The whole class of connector might be a new concept for many electricians et al in the USA but they have not burnt the rest of the world down so far. Arguably the constant spring tension, a similar concept to the conical spring in the wire nuts used in the USA, make them a superior option to screw terminals that often work themselves loose with thermal cycling. Many people come across ancient screw terminals that require considerable force to undo and assume that they have been making a tight joint all the time. That is definitely not the case. Often the apparent tightness of old screw terminals is the corrosion and other surface debris in the screw thread preventing the screw from being turned easily. Rest assured, using a WAGO connector is not a ticking timebomb.
In electronics , those breadboards you use to prototype have similar push-in connectors, they fail all the time and lose their holding ability. I suspect wago's have the same problem.
@@mychromebook9935 Compare the price-point for breadboards and Wagos. Material and construction makes the difference, as do the certifications you'll never find on a breadboard.
Very neat test! Thank you. I had always suspected that there was a lot less engineering margin with push-in connectors such as the In-Sure and press-in outlet backwiring holes. The twisted and bolted connections are going to have a lot more surface area to transfer the current from one conductor to another. Looks like this proves my guess right! The Marrette connectors are neat. They are very early in design. I have restored several early 1930's Frigidaire belt-drive refrigerators which had the same Marrette connectors on the motor leads. They have a Delco repulsion-induction motor, which all seem to have come with those connectors. We call those outlet backwiring holes "lazy electrician holes" because they encourage people to take shortcuts. A couple more connection designs I want to test is the twisted, soldered, and friction-taped; and crimped and soldered and heat-shrinked connections. Those are very labor-intensive connections from the very olden days.
Yes - and in spite of the heated discussion somewhere below or on one of the other threads, I now convinced that as you said the surface area of twisting under Marr connector is unbeatable for many situations. I just subscribed to your channel! The old refrigeration equipment looks so interesting. I never heard of belt driven electric refrigerator. Was that maybe before someone had the brilliant idea to put the motor inside the sealed system? I'm sure i will find the answer when I have watched some of your videos. Of the connections you mentioned that intrigues me is crimped connections and soldered connections. And the reason is the local cable manufacturer that we use to make cables for a product at my workplace swears to me that crimping is more reliable than soldering. Now these are low current signal carrying cables as opposed to power. Have you seen vintage ones from either type do better than the over over time?
@@ElectromagneticVideos Thanks for the reply! It's funny how many people eschew and scorn the venerable old wire nut. But, they would not have lasted so long as a product had they not been reliable and safe. I find it silly how people get emotional, aggressive, and argumentative about wire connectors! I would like to think I have more significant things to get all worked up about! In the late 20's GE was one of the first to commercialize a sealed motor compressor. They sold the Monitor Top "DR" for Domestic Refrigerator. It had a massive steel dome on top with the compressor and motor inside. It has an oscillating cylinder compressor and induction motor. The bottom of the dome is attached with a bolt circle and can be removed for rebuilding. Quite a machine, and very collectible! Before this, almost all refrigeration machines were belt-driven. One of the challenges to making early sealed units was material compatibility. The first (relatively) safe refrigerant was SO2 (sulphur dioxide) which has very limited material compatibility. The early sealed designs struggled with keeping the SO2 from degrading the materials used to construct the motor, and electrical pass-through terminals which transferred power into the sealed housing. GE developed some fused-glass terminal seals which made them the leader for decades in this area. I tend to think that crimping is a good idea for most applications. Soldering has its place as well. When you do both, you have the best. Crimping will retain the wire, even under fault conditions such as loose connections. The heat can melt solder, which can release the wire, or the solder can flow and create shorts. Solder will completely seal out corrosion and prevent deterioration, so in my opinion crimped and then soldered with a very minimal amount of 2% silver leaded solder is the longest-lasting connection when any sort of exposure to moisture is possible. I see wiring from 40's era things with that technique, still looking like new.
@@davida1hiwaaynet Believe it or not we had an SO2 fridge at our cottage (aka cabin) when I was a kid. Dad got it at an old farm auction so it was old when we got it. But modern compared to what you described - the compressor was already at the bottom. It lasted a few years till the thermostat broke - I replaced it with one from a junked fridge but a year or two later parents got a new one that was drastically marked down with a scratch. So I extracted the fridge heating cooling section without perforating it and made a not very effective air conditioner with a fan. i was innovative as kid! Eventually as it was being thrown out the evaporator got perforated. Oh did it stink! Interesting your comments about crimping - I never though about solder in hot environments - do electronics and if its hot enough to melt solder other things will already have failed. Have done crimp + solder - but do it because my crimping is so bad - a lot of small signal connectors need a very costly tool to do it right and each one needs a different tool. Always fascinated to hear what has lasted so long long and survived. Thanks for taking the dime to write such a detailed response!
WAGO is pronounced "VAGO" and is from Europe as far as I know.. my former boss, who was an electrician, said those set-screw Marrette connectors were outlawed (Canada) because as the wires heat and cool over time, the set screw can back off and the connection loosens. From online spec sheets, it seems that they still sell them though.. I don't pre-twist unless I have more than 2-3 wires going into a wire nut.. or if I need to connect a couple with a twisted lead. The wires will twist as the nut is installed.
I’ve always used the old school Marrette brand set screw connectors for splices where I have 4+ wires to terminate. A little more expensive but a good quality connection.
@@ElectromagneticVideos I wonder what if the back stab was actually the problem? the blue outlet was maybe a better quality plastic, and maybe the black outlet would have melted the same way whether it was backstabbed or side screwed. I would be interested to see two of the same black outlet, one back stabbed and one side screwed on circuit like this. Thanks!
@@nicksz8909 Very valid point. Adding a back stab was a last minute idea and I didnt have two identical outlets in my junk box. The different plastic could certainly have made a significant difference, or even internal construction of the outlet.
@@ElectromagneticVideos Thanks for the reply! I think the testing that I mentioned would really help to show whether it is the back stab or just cheap outlets that are the problem in normal conditions.
@@nicksz8909 Also might be interesting to see if SPEC outlets do much better than regular ones or if its that they are more mechanically robust for repeated plug insertions. A number of people have told a few stories how they had to replace all the outlets in new installs after the outlets started randomly failing months later. Others have told of how problems surfaced years later. To me, that means more than any quick informal test I might do here.
Test method is not the best with connectors in series and with different gauge conductors on each end of the circuit. Each connector will have a different resistance and the 14 ga wire has more resistance than the 12 ga., essentially becoming a resistor itself. In a series circuit, all resistance is additive. Given a constant circuit current, the voltage drop across each connector will vary. In this test, the meter was set up to read voltage drop across the combination of connectors. At 20amps there was .35 volts combined loss but hard to say which connector had the highest voltage drop. Would of been better to test each connector individually with same voltage and amperage (e.g. 120v @20amps) while measuring voltage drop across the connector . Using ohms law(R=v/I), the resistance through the connection can be calculated. Highest resistance connection will produce the most heat and will most likely fail the quickest. There are other variables that will determine failure time beyond the scope of this response but you could continue with destructive testing by holding same voltage and cranking up the current until circuit opens while timing. I would bet the twist on connector (marrette) will carry the highest load the longest.
#12 AWG copper will melt open in a renewable link fuse at 235 Amps. #14 AWG copper melts open at about 166 amps in a renewable link fuse. These wire link fuses went out of use about 75 or 80 years ago. They were quite popular in the 1900s through the end of WWII.
I have heard about fuses like that. Interesting to hear the details. I do remember fuses that had a replaceable thin wire between some ceramic and an asbestos pad for household branch circuits in some 240V countries. I guess in the old days that was the simplest way to do things.
Thanks! I might just do that when I do some more wago tests. Interesting thing is that there seems to be significant disagreement as to whether wire should be pre-twisted when using wire nuts. I'm in the pre-twist camp....
I wish there was some way to include the damage that wire nuts do to the wire. It isn't always possible to cut down and strip new wire. When a wire is pulled from a wago, it's perfect. The wire that has been in a wire nut is bent, scored, and fatigued
Very good point. Even just the variation in good/new wire connections. To do definitive tests, one would really have to setup situations like you describe and then have a thousand electricians of degrees of experience make the connections, and the test each and characterize the variation in results.
Thanks for carrying out this test, and posting the results. I rewired my parent's basement, and all the wiring I could reach in a 2 storey home, in 1969, in house built in the 1930's. The power co. inspector commented to my mother that a very nice job was done. Since that time I always used MARR set screw connectors when needed. When newer, "easier to use" connectors appeared I still stuck to the screw-type MARR connector because, from a mechanical standpoint, they performed a better job than the "easier" ones. Glad you proved my judgment correct. On another note, I am glad to see that a brief, 2 seconds or less, 250% overload on the wiring is not harmful provided good connecting practice is followed. Never liked the "push to fit" hardware, especially not on plumbing jobs.
👌👌👍👍 Somewhat surprising is that the #6 push in receptacle should have been equally as good as the #1 Ideal and #2 Wago. Had these three been tested together with a #14 conductor, I suspect the Wago would be the first to fail.
Yes - you would think it would would be just as good as the ideal which is just a push in too. No idea with the receptacle is so much worse, but many beope in the comments have reported real-life experiences with them failing so its a very real concern. At some point I should do a #14 test for all of them!
I wired a finished basement using the push-in connectors on the outlets. I will NEVER make that mistake again! My outlets, were rated for #12 gauge wire, rather than the #14 gauge, but, that didn't make it any better. ALWAYS use the screws, and wrap the wire around the screws. You want the contact area between the wire and the pads to match or exceed the cross section area of the wire itself, to ensure that there is no more temperature rise at the connection point, than in the wire itself. That will guarantee safety when plugging in high amperage loads, like hair driers, space heaters, toasters/toaster ovens, or even large vacuum cleaners.
I wired my basement the same way about 17 years ago. Since then I've replaced every receptacle and terminated on the screws. I ran into several outlets wired with the push in connections that would lose power when you moved or torqued on the plug. Several would lose it with only slight pressure or would require you to move it around to get power at all. I had a couple where you could even hear slight arcing in them when that happened. I finally decided I didn't want my house to burn down so I replaced them all and terminated them on the screws. No problems since then.
So how did the problems you must have had appear? Did the occasional outlet burn up when a high load device was plugged it? Or did they just randomly go bad?
@@ElectromagneticVideos My problem with push in connections on outlets and switches was random open circuits. This resulted in call backs to troubleshoot and correct. I quit using push in devices 40 years ago,
@@WesB1972 Gee that must have been costly and frustrating! I cant believe they still have that feature - I have not seen a single comment here - or anywhere else - where anyone says they are any good!
I would have liked to have seen a yellow wire nut that wasn't pre-twisted and would have liked to have seen the screw down outlet on the 12 gauge wire. Oh and the use of an infrared thermometer would have been interesting.
All great suggestions, particularity since I ended up getting an IR camera used in some of the later videos. So it would certainly be worth doing again sometime in a slightly better way!
Great test! It's discouraging how houses get more expensive as components get cheaper and more prone to fail. This isn't progress. Wagos are a hard no for me. Marretts and screws on all connections for trouble free installation.
Well thank you! I would also stick to Marrs and screws other than possibly for a low current light fixtures or something like that. But in fairness to the Wagos they did handle rated currents. I would be concerned if they were in circuit where significant overcurrents were a regular occurrences such as for induction motors (pumps and compressors for example) that can often draw five or more times the rated running currents for a few seconds during startup. I'm not sure when these particular Wago connectors first appeared, but it would be interesting to know they long term reliability under those circumstances.
Great video. The Ideal connector (far left) and the duplex receptacle using the push-in terminals seem to be doing the worst. Both rely on the back pressure of the contacts on the wires. The others rely on screw down torque or twisting together the wires themselves. I'm surprised that the Wago (lever action) connector fared so well.
Thanks! I wonder if inside the wago there is a larger surface area to make contact with the wire rather than more of an almost single point contact. I would certainly use the wago for something like a ceiling light but would stick to marr (wire nuts) for anything that could be expected to carry significant current.
I don't know if you use them in US but in Brazil we have some that are a series of short copper tubes with screws on each side housed on a ceramic encasing. You insert the wires each opposite end of the copper tube and use the screws to hold them we call them (in Portuguese) connection rulers (I think the name used in English is terminal strips). They are similar to set crew connectors but with several in parallel on a non conductive encasing like a polymer or ceramic.
I know exactly what you are describing! They are not used for house wiring here but I have used them for industrial automation - I really like them. The ones I have used have plastic insulation - I can imagine the ceramic ones are so much safer when overheating. Brazil? Cool - I was born in Rio de Janeiro when my parents were posed to the Canadian Embassy there (before Brasília). Greetings for Canada!
@@ElectromagneticVideos Cool. They changed the capital fom Rio to Brasilia in 1960. Now I know the lower bound of your age same. I'm just a litle younger I was born a few weeks before Kennedy was killed. Ohhh you are Canadian nice!
@@agranero6 Ha! You must be a detective! Actually I must be almost the same age as you - I'm guessing the Embassy did not move to Brasilia immediately. I remember my mom telling about hearing of the Kennedy assassination from some American neighbors who had heard it on shortwave radio almost immediately when it happened.
Circuit breakers only allow a large surge current for a few seconds, not a half hour. This allows things like motors that draw a huge amount current to start without tripping the breaker
@@yodasbff3395 Glad you liked it! Look at the spec sheets for some breakers like the common (at least in North America) BR type ones. Some have spec sheets that have a surprising range of allowable thermal tripping time for currents of for example 150% of rated value - in some cases the range being zero seconds to up to half an hour. You buy a breaker and it is "guaranteed" to trip somewhere within that range. You do have to dig deep into Eaton's website for some of the specs - not something that is in the more generic brochures. I do wonder as we move towards electronically controlled breakers like AFCI ones if eventually we will end up with very precise spec curves rather than regions. I do worry about the added complexity and reliability over time. Your so right about huge motor current surges at startup - most people have no idea things like induction motors can easily draw 6 times the rated current at startup.
There are two trip mechanisms in the breakers you're familiar with: an electromagnetic trip for dead shorts and a thermal heater/bimetallic strip for overloads. The thermal is not precise, depends a bit on ambient temperture, and takes time to trip. It definitely takes a very long time at modest overloads. Then there are thing like Federal Pioneer's breakers that just didn't trip...
It looks like the wires below the yellow wire nut are touching, which would reduce the current load on the actual wire nut. Also, the wires in a wire nut should not be twisted. They will twist themselves if you install it with proper technique.
the whole test is absolutely moot the second you take the consistency of the wire out of the equation. do the same exact test across the board with all 14 gauge wire, and then you can have some non-biased results.
My present house is full of receptacles and light switches carrying downstream loads via push in back connections and they are all failing. I replaced a dozen or so the first year I was here, and a few every year since. Never had to replace an outlet that had only single wires for hot, neutral and ground. One I replaced a couple of years ago I used the ideal connectors to create pigtails because the wire insulation was burnt back to within a couple of inches of entering the box. The circuit was never overloaded but one morning I noticed my shaver charger was very hot, so was the outlet cover.
So the ideal connectors somehow overheated under normal load. That s really surprising. I wonder of the iriginal overheating somehow altered the wire and the connector didn't have a good connection because of that?
@@ElectromagneticVideos no, the ideal connectors have been fine. The original outlet wired with back stab overheated, burning the wiring. I cut back the burnt wires and used ideal to connect pigtails to replace the outlet.
The heating of the 14ga wires by resistance cannot be distinguished from the push in backwire connection. Better comparison would be all 14ga and wire lenths equal. The wires are supposed to twist together from torque of the nut. Normal circuit breakers do not go that much higher than rating on resistive loads.
Isn't the idea connector and the wago essentially the same thing as backstabing the outlet? It's just a thin piece of metal that slightly cuts into the wire.
The wago has a lever to lock the wire in, but the Ideal seems like the backstab outlet as you suggest. What odd is how much poorer the backstab outlet is.
Would recommend using a FLIR camera or even a cheap Hanh held temperature gun to check temperatures. The one hole lug that connects the #14 to stab in st rear of receptacle is only rated for one wire. If you have two wires inspectors will tell you to use a two hole lug.
Good point about the FLIR camera - I did get one for my cell phone which I used for later videos such as the Knob and Tube one. I will have op repeat this one sometime with the camera.
Thanks for the informative video. I also would like to see how stranded wire compares since the Wago is my goto over wire nuts for stranded. I do love the convenience of the Wago lever nuts. I can absolutely see the solid wire performing better with wire nuts since the nut is not really doing anything if wire is twisted. I have seen many issues with wire nuts and stranded especially if different gauge stranded are connected under the same nut. I see comments on here about stranded wire not used in high voltage or not ok to use. How do they think high voltage is done in the industrial environment. I am an industrial electrician for over 25 years and we almost exclusively use stranded wire from 24VDC control wire to the large incoming power feeds and high voltage motors. Honestly solid is limited in use to basically smaller size house wiring, inductors and transformers.....
I might redo/do some more of these next summer when its warmer now that I have an IR camera. Next summer because they have to be done outside or at least in an open garage because of the noxious burning plastic fumes. Your industrial/high power/high voltage background really adds an additional perspective to all of this. Interesting point about stranded - I think the largest solid I have seen is #10. I guess much bigger than that and its more of a rod than a wire! Here is a question for you - so what is the largest (stranded) size of wires that is typically used in wire nuts? And what to do use for larger wires?
@@ElectromagneticVideos Yes #10 is usually the largest I see as solid. Rare times I have used large wire nuts on #10. More often than that I typically go to the crimp on lugs on anything #10 or larger. The lugs are cheaper than T&B motor pig tail connectors. The motor pigtails are neat because after crimping they slip together and go into a rubber boot. The boots are nice but are expensive (I for example a 10HP motor would need six of these to completely wire up). I see the crimp ring lugs and high voltage splice tape used the most above 5HP.
@@ThriftyToolShed Of course - crimping! Interesting about motor connectors. High voltage splice tape - I'm guessing an industrial version of plain old electrical tape?
@@ThriftyToolShed I just looked it up a one of my electronics suppliers : "Dielectric Strength ASTM-D1000-76 34kV/mm" very impressive! I was not expecting that from tape! Glad you told me about that - never know when that might be useful!
@@ElectromagneticVideos Yup. That's the idea. Insulation and keeping the wires from untwisting. I really like the Wago myself though. Very convenient especially in tight spaces and for future reworking. Untwisting and retwisting wires fatigues them and not supposed to reuse wire nuts. Also much harder to get wire nuts right and tight at 3 or more conductors. Wago is nearly fool proof.
@@ken830 I would sure use them for connecting things like ceiling lamps with thin stranded wire to solid wire in the junction box. I was a bit dubious about them at high current loads but to be fair they did hold up to past the rated current.
It is a nice setup however due to the 14 gauge wire on that back stab outlets, that 14 gauge wire will heat up significantly quicker therefore causing that outlet to fail prematurely compared to the other terminations. You will have to redo the experiments with all 14 or all 12 gauge wire.
It's low voltage to pass a controlled current though what is effectively a short. The power source is an AC welder controlled by a variac (variable transformer).
Back in the early 70s when the backstabbed outlets first arrived and would except number 12 wire my Company had me wire an entire apartment building with them. Two months later I was back replacing every single outlet.
We're you using copper or aluminum. If aluminum, was it the old technology aka 1350 AL, or the then new technology aka 8000 AL ?? My understanding is many homes, apartments and especially cheap double wide mobile homes used aluminum wiring from about the mid 60s, to the early to mid 70s due to the copper shortage caused by the post WWII housing boom and the Vietnam War.
@@Sparky-ww5re Never occurred to me that different alloys might have been used. As far as I know it was very common here (Ontario, Canada) at that time - I didn't know there was a copper shortage - that sure explains the the switch to Aluminum.
Very nice experience, but what is the practical proof at all? All parts were used way off their spec. Here in Germany we're using Wagos and push-in Installations (sockets, switches) for decades w/o any issues.
Interesting to hear they have been use in Germany for a long time. Sockets with push in connectors have been in use here for a long time too but with not so good results. I think the issue may be with our lower voltage (120V) compared to yours, the currents are twice as high, particularly for heating devices so we are closer to the point where things start to go bad. For me the interesting things was I have heard many people say Wago and push in connectors make better connections because they are newer. This test seems to indicate otherwise. I would tend towards using Wire-nuts for higher current loads based on this. The other connector which I didnt test which was used in Germany when I was kid (we lived in Bonn for 4 years in the early 1970s) were the connectors that are a bit like barrier strips and have little metal cylinders where you push a wire in on each end and then tighten a screw on each end to hold it. Usually there are a few of these in row. I always have been impressed with those and have occasionally used them for automation stuff.
@@ElectromagneticVideos These connectors are called Lüsterklemme. Seven years ago I've renovated my house from 72. My pro electrician and l completely updated and upgraded the electrics to today's standard. By this we found and removed quite some wire nuts and Lüsterklemmen - all Wago now. There is no such debate about them compared to the States, as I'm recognizing it on TH-cam. All quality brands here in Germany are using push-in technology, only, for standard house installations. The installation is much easier and way faster. Also changes are super easy. By the way, Wago has also a push-in version w/o the lever. This is rather the standard one and cheaper. The one with the lever is necessary if one wants to connect stranded wires directly. But I will always buy quality stuff from well-known companies - electrics are not a topic to mess around with.
@@gundelfish Lüsterklemme - just looked that up - thats them! They seem to be marketed over here as "Eurostyle Terminal Strips". I have always liked that style of connector - not sure if it is even allowed here for home wiring. One thing I have always noticed is that German products are generally built way better than North America stuff, and also cost a bit more. I have always assumed its something in the culture that Germans are willing to pay more for better quality while over here cheaper always wins. That was really apparent in many electronic items before most manufacturing was moved overseas.
Very timely presentation as I was curious how the wagos work. Since you are becoming the official TH-cam wire burner, might need to invest in a flir camera. Thanks so much !! Ken
I had never used them before, so it was interesting to see. Some youtubers seem to be proclaiming them the best thing since sliced bread. I'm less convinced of that now but they do fill a certain niche. Glad you liked the video. It actually might be fun to have a flir camera - I'll have to see if I can find a flir imager that I can record the data stream directory from rather than the common integrated sensor/display units. An I'm honored to be "the official TH-cam wire burner". I'm really amazed how the 14/2 video really took off - who would have thought!
@@ElectromagneticVideos I agree the wire nut is by far the most reliable, but those wagos as sweet when you have to swap a wire. I’ve tried the ideal, and I found you can remove the wire - However, the wire does need to be a fresh strip. I was amazed at how much current you could push before bad things happened. I’d love to see the heat map of those little connectors at higher current. Anyhow, they are UL listed so I suspect someone, somewhere tested all this. You my friend are very good at talking this through and appreciate the video.
@@MrKen59 Your right - you cant beat the wago if you have to change something. But I think for any high power stuff wire nuts are it. I couldn't agree with you more about how well they all survived such over-current abuse. really impressive. By the way - I really appreciate your feedback about my talking - I have been wondering if I was anywhere close to a good balance between saying too much or too little .
It would be interesting to do a milliohm resistance reading on each individual connector. The ones with the highest reading would get the hottest and the ones I would not use but then again, who would draw 50 or 100 A of service residentially?
I could do that with a voltmeter across each connector and use the voltage and (known) current to get the milliohms. As far as who would draw 50A or more, the purpose was really to see how how big the margin of safety is - its actually quite impressive given this sort of wiring is typically used for 15A max. Having said that, things like motors can draw many times (I have seen 6x) their running current for a few seconds while starting up so for things that I would prefer to have components that handle larger currents well.
With current flowing through those bare wires you are able to touch them without getting a shock. Is that because the wire is a better path to follow than your hand?
Its actually because it is low voltage. Since the wire is shorted at the end with the wire nut, it has very low resistance, so only a 1 or 2 volts is needed to drive the large current. So this makes the test quite safe voltage-wise while still making the wire experience the various degrees of overcurrent. If we had a huge 120V load at the end instead of the wire-nut short and used 120V to drive the same current, we would get the same heating for the same current but it would not be safe to touch.
@@ElectromagneticVideos It would be wonderful if you'd consider making a video on this subject! I'm (very) new to your channel and so haven't made it too far back through your videos, so apologies if one already exists. I had the same question in my mind as Dave asked. That so few people commented on this, the further I had to scroll to find even this one, the more I thought this had to be a stupid question. None the less it has still been slightly unnerving while watching your test videos!
@@lorddissy So the couple of recent videos that got popular actually are a poor representation of the rest of the content - which is a much more general smattering of technical things that I find interesting. So you may be disappointed if you look back hoping to find similar stuff. The reason I can touch them is the voltage is really low: 1 or 2 volts! That is the voltage drop you get along a conductor when it carries power from the breaker panel to the load because the conductor is not a perfect conductor, but has a little resistance. So at the panel you might have 120V and maybe at the plug of a big heater it is only 118V. 2V is lost along the wire when the wire carries 10A (of course the are just illustrative numbers - they vary based on wire length etc). So that 2V at 10A means 20W is dissipated as heat in the wire. As long as there is 10A flowing it doesnt matter what the actual wire to wire voltage is - almost zero in this case or 120V for a real load: the heating is the same. Of course how much energy gets to the load does depened on the line to line voltage. In our case the voltage across the load (the wire nut connection) is essentially zero so its 0 watts. If we has a real 120V load 10A current would mean about 118V x 10A = 1180W would be delivered to the load, but the wore would still dissipate 20W. If I had done it that way I sure wouldnt be touching the wires! I might do an explanation video since many people have asked variations of the question. Hope this hastily written explanation has helped!
It doesn't matter about current flowing through the cables, that doesn't determine whether you get an electric shock or not. What does is: the source voltage, the source resistance, the wire resistance, your body's resistance.
This would be really cool with even a cheap thermal camera. Also, what about trying this again with a simple bat of fiberglass insulation layed on top, or better yet, underneath? Would give it more of a "real world, in wall" result.
The problem is simple: wagos are designed to eliminate twisting wires together. And wires need to be twisted together to allow a marrettte to be installed. Wagos require no twisting of wires, and THATS the problem.
Good way of putting it. I might use Wagos for for things like an easy connection to a ceiling lamp where current is low. But really prefer wire nuts where larger currents are involved.
How are you pumping 70 amps through a bare copper wire and touching it and poking it without dying? Is it just because you're hoping you're less of a short circuit to the ground than that wire already has?
Because its essentially a short, the voltage needed to generate 70 Amps is only in the range of 1 to 2 volts. This is the same as the voltage drop that occur along the wire or across the connections in normal use, although you would hope the current never gets close to that value. Like the neutral wire in a real situation, the wire here is at about ground potential. I sure wouldn't be touching it if it was at 120v like the "live" wire in a real situation.
In the Knob and Tube test I did in one of the following videos, a 100 year old solder joint covered with electrical tape was amazing, so I think it would. I think the the main weakness in all mechanical connectors is the often relatively small contact size so higher resistance at the connection. In spite of the higher resistivity of solder compared to copper, I suspect the much larger contact surface area really makes it a superior connection. But probably a case of it being way better than it needs to be for most applications.
Wago looks like it failed electrically before the ideal connection, even though the plastic melted first, the wago seemed to be the one that threw sparks
Yeah - but in fairness to both of them they only began to show signs of failure way beyond what they normally ever should be subjected to. Now that I have a IR camera at some time I will repeat the test and see which gets hot first.
My main take-away from this demonstration is that when there's an obscene amount of electricity being pumped through bare wiring, its perfectly acceptable to touch those wires with my bare hands.
Good observation! The heat causes a thin oxide layer to form on the outer surface of the copper making it look darker. Same thing happens to exposed copper that is not overloaded over years of gradual oxidation. Interesting thing about the oxide layer - it actually can be used as a semiconductor rectifier and devices made with copper oxide were used in application like battery chargers before modern high-current semiconductors were mass produced. By the way - saw your vacuum motor burn up video - from my own experience I'll bet that gave off some noxious fumes!
I work in maintenance and I was having a problem with a flourescent lamp fixture . I replaced the ballast using wegos and the fixture wouldn't turn on . I undid all the wegos then put them back and tried it again. Still wouldn't turn on . I called up an electrician for the building and I told him about the problem and he suggested using wire nuts instead of the wegos. I flipped the switch after using the wire nuts. It came on like it was supposed to.
I always find in fascinating to hear real world accounts like yours. I have seen ballasts with very thin wires. Maybe they were just too thin for the wego to clamp to?
ive been upgrading switches to smart switches for my buddy. for making the connections im using the wago style, specifically due to the smart switches using stranded wire. otherwise ill use a wirenut, unless its in a low current application that will need to be taken down for service
I would like to say. It’s not surprising that the 14 awg push in got hotter and melted first.. It’s smaller wire. The actual connection didn’t fail. If you did that same test and screwed the 14 awg on to the device, The plug probably would have failed the same.
I find its hard to point one of those accurately at small areas, at least one the hardware store one I have. And the test was really intended to see which failed first. I'm looking into a FLIR type camera. I think a close up of one connector or another as the current is interested might be more interesting and something to do in the future!
The voltage is low: 10V or less. Thats because the circuit is essentially a short and you need a low voltage to limit the current to reasonable values that would be flowing under normal load conditions.
Prety pointless tests - once you exceed the permitted maximum current you are on your own and it does not matter if the plastic or the contact is going to fail first.
I'd be interested in measuring the the connection resistance of each of these BEFORE and AFTER the test. It seems, the yellow nut kind of hard-soldiered itself? Does it make a difference how hard you fasten the nuts/screws or even clean the copper surface before attaching? How long/many turns make a difference in the nuts? Also, what about conventional screw terminals? And for comparison: Where is the limit of soldiered connections?
I always thought the wago connector was just shit compared to the standard twist wire nut. It's really impressive to see that it does survive to the same power that the screw connection does.
I was impressed how well they did and certainly did well at all rated currents. What I wonder is how decades of age may alter their internal mechanics. Some people have said they use them for low power lamps and I can see that. For something like an induction motor with high startup current surges, I would stick to wire nuts!
In a residential home, EVERYONE should ALWAYS use commercial grade outlets in their house. The $1.29 outlets is too cheap and substandard. Spend the $4.00 for a commercial outlet.
To add to that - with the cost of installation labour these days being so much more than the cost of the outlet(s), it really doesn't make sense to skimp and save a few $ per outlet.
Someone even commented that in some (older) installations bare wire like was used for high current fuses in suitable constructed fuse holders. But yes, #14 doesn't stand a chance at those types of currents ...
At 9:13 you state that both stick in and screw terminal receptacles are rated at 15A. That is not correct. A 15A receptacle is rated to be on a 20A circuit as far as pass thru current for the screw terminals. That is part of the code and will be the case if it has a UL listing.
I think you have hit on one of the few differences between US and Canadian electric codes. Last time I looked, up here in Canada you cant put a 15A receptacle on a 20A circuit. Not sure if its different in the US, but on that particular stick in receptacle it specifically said only#14 wire for the stick in connectors.
When wires are twisted together the resistive load of the wire nut is zero because the wire nut isn't need to create the connection. The push in and Wago add a resistive load because there is no direct connection between wires. They're connected by a thin piece of metal inside the housing, so the probability is higher for failure compared to the wire nut.
Bingo
In the 50 years I have been doing electrical wiring I have never had a wire nut joint fail. I have had many push in joints fail to the point I quit using them 40 years ago.I see no advantage in wago connectors.
Wago connections are the same thing as automotive fuses. A failure point.
Electricity is just a theory like evolution or the globe earth.
No, this is wrong. What you're saying is that current doesn't flow through the nut.
That is not true.
With the nut removed, current does not flow through the nut, and the nut is not needed to make the connection. However, when the nut is attached, current does flow through it, and therefore it can still heat up. In fact it will heat up also because of the heat produced by the current passing through the twisted pair of conductors.
What you folks are suggesting is that the current flowing knows that the metal threaded insert of the nut belongs to the nut and decides not to flow through it. That is clearly nonsense, as there is no way the current can know that the metal of the nut belongs to the nut and is not part of the wire.
I use stranded wire for all my electrical projects as it's easier to pull. The Wago connectors are so much easier to make connections with, and is all I use now. I also use commercial/industrial backwire clamp receptacles instead of trying to make a J hook around a screw. If I have to like on a light switch, fixture or something, I'll keep the insulation on at the end of the wire to keep it from fraying.
Someone else did one of these extreme overload tests, and Wagos performed better with stranded wire as there was more contact surface area. Either way, I don't think you'll run into issues with those under normal operating parameters. The breaker should trip long before the plastic even gets soft on a mild overload. As seen here, 40 amps only made the connector a bit warm.
you shouldn't use stranded for hi-voltage anything
Isn't stranded fixed wiring against code?
@@bigtitmaster
Why would you think that?
I'd be interested to see some wire nut connectors that are used in less than perfect conditions (without pre-twisting the copper wires in advance):
0. control of pre-twisted wire
1. clean straight wire but barely twisting the wire nut
2. clean straight wire but really torqueing on the wire nut until the insulated portion visibly starts twisting as well
3. wire pair used previously together in the same wire nut, uninstall the nut, separate the wires, put wires back together matching original twist, install new wire nut of same size
4. wires used previously in separate wire nuts combined into a new pairing, roughly straighten wire ends with pliers until they fit into the original wire nut size
5. wires used previously in separate wire nuts combined into a new pairing, no straightening, just jam them together into whatever oversize wire nut is needed to get them to fit
Thats a really good outline for a systematic test. I was also thinking of an old pair of very tarnished copper wires twisted and untwisted (similar to your 3,4,5 but perhaps without having some tarnish scraped off by handling).
A few more options, maybe on seperate tests, but how about varying gauges of wire together, and stranded+solid. And do same gauge and like the lighting style 18 guage.. it should fail first but I've found that connecting small gauge lighting wires is easier than two like sized stranded and solid counterparts. I think mostly because you offset the smaller gauge stranded farther in, and the wirenut gets into some "meat" of both. While the same gauge stranded might encompass the whole solid wire and the solid will pull out, or the stranded is to far back and doesnt get enough under the screw down. I think it goes without saying you cant really twist them together properly because the stranded gives way too easily for the solid to do any twisting. I'll always prefer all solid wires, at least for our standard circuit sizes here in the US, 15-20amp, 14ga, and 12ga.
Great ideas here fro future video tests. I am an electrician and really appreciate these videos as they explain what I see in my real world repairs. For sure I would like to see some not well made connections with corroded or tarnished copper and degraded Aluminum. Not twisted and remade connections.
@@Sparkeycarp I'm so glad you like the videos! I would be fascinated to hear more about what you have seen in real situations with problems. For a tarnished corroded connection, I think the only practical way to test that is to get an old connection from a junction box that has been removed from an old house. If anyone is gutting an old house or otherwise removed a junction box that has not already failed and are willing to send it to me, it would be interesting to test. Same for some Aluminum 12/2 from the 1970s, and even better if its attached to a vintage outlet and we can see how the connection might have degenerated. I'm in Ottawa (Canada) so it would be really easy if someone nearby came across some stuff like that.
❤ this goes quite a bit further than what I was thinking. You covered what I was after
The Wago held up perfectly, until it didn't- which is also perfect. In an over-current situation that's the behavior I want to see. They're a second fuse. Engineering perfection. I don't want a connection to hang on until all my walls are on fire.
I think it failed in that way partly because of me touching it with a screwdriver to see if the plastic was softening. So if left alone it may not fail as cleanly. But either way, took an impressive amount of current.
Well that awesome test concluded what I already experienced with the backstab outlets aka speedwire. I've replaced burned up devices, and it seemed to have occurred after a space heater or air conditioner was running. Sometimes the outlet had nothing plugged into it when it burned out, because it was passing current to the rest of the circuit. In fact my employer would look at outlets and switchs to judge the laziness or lack of, the newly hired employees 🙂 Speedwire was a sign of someone who just wanted to finish a project in the least amount of time and didn't take as much pride in quality workmanship, looping around screw terminals meant the employee took pride in his or her work, and had the best interest for the occupants of the home.
Yup. Portable A/C units and heaters too much for aged speedwire receptacles. Then the cooked receptacle de-energizes downstream receptacles 😥.
Many mobile homes burn because of their cheap products and quick assembly times. The same places that end up with portable electric heaters and window bangers.
Speedwire / backstabbing receptacles should never be used without a pigtail. Speedwire connectors should not be used as a junction for downstream outlets. This is one reason they have a bad rep. Poor best practice to use the screws as a junction for downstream outlets as well. I don’t judge fellow electricians for using speedwire, I judge them for using any part of the receptacle as a junction vs making a pigtail. Almost a 30 year Master Electrician and have probably installed a million receptacles, all with pigtails. Probably most of the receptacles installed on a 15 amp circuit were installed with the speedwire connector.
Would of been interesting if you threw in a commercial a d industrial spec grade receptacle that has "BACKWIRE" terminals: the ones you do indeed put the wire in the back but you have to tighten down the terminal and it clamps the wire firmly. Also they are of better construction so it be interesting to see how hot they get
I know the terminals you are talking about. I have had a number of requests to test receptacles - had thought of those - will be real interesting to see how much better they are.
Oh man!!! Id like to see one of those!!!! What do I search for to look them up?
Though the construction of these outlets is stronger, I find that they strip out when tightening. Also, many people end up getting the insulation behind the terminal because they push the wire in to far. The cheap outlets are the best. If you pigtail and twist your wires using wire nuts, the stab in holes are just fine, because most of the current running on the circuit runs through the pigtail and not the outlet. Also, if you use the screw terminals on the side of the cheap outlets, you can crank those things down like nobodies business and they will not strip out.
@@zinsco That interesting and surprising. I wonder why the "better" ones tend to strip? I would have expected them to have no worse threads. I get the bit about people pushing the wire in too far - I'm sure that happens a lot.
@@cdoublejj I sorry - I just saw your comment - no idea why it didnt show up 4 weeks ago! The easiest way is to go to your favorite hardware stores web page on receptacles and order in terms of price. They show up between the cheapest ones and the fancy designer ones or ones that have features like USB.
Nice test procedure. I'm not at all surprised that the push in type outlet failed. The first time I saw one years ago sent shivers through me.
I have heard horror stories about those push in outlets - and some commenters have also told of their bad experiences with those outlets. I'm really surprised that CSA and UL still certify those outlets - they seem to have such a history of failing. I guess the only good thing is they are in (hopefully) in a metal outlet box that contains the fire.
@@ElectromagneticVideos I'm not familiar with CSA. I wonder if either organization follows up with field reports on things they approve in the lab. Or at the very least, periodic testing of up to date production versions to see that they're still viable.
@@joewoodchuck3824 CSA is the Canadian equivalent of UL. Both organizations certify stuff in both countries and elsewhere. You know, I don't specifically know if they do follow up on reports on things that happen in the field. I would have assumed they do since for example changes happened after houses wired with Aluminum wire started burning down in the '70s. It could be that outlet fires have simply been well enough contained to fly under the radar, possibly with pressure from the manufacturers. Certainly not an impressive showing for the entire electrical industry to have those things still in production and use!
Thank you for confirming my suspicions about wagos and any other barbed type electrical connection method; they’re weak, they have reduced surface area contact and when overloaded they will generated higher electrical resistance and heat sooner than with standard Marrs and Marrette connector, and of course wire binding terminal screws found on all electrical outlet devices (switches, receptacles, etc.).
Good demonstration
Thanks! Yes - its all about surface area an a good tight squeeze between the conductors. As simple as they are Marrs are amazingly effective.
As a master electrician, all I can say is I approve!
It would be interesting to try this same experiment with stranded wire.
Thanks - I appreciate that! Stranded - so lamp cord perhaps? I'll bet none of the connectors would do as well although the lamp cord may burn up before the connector. I'll put that on my list. I should look up European wiring - I think (?) they may use stranded for standard house wiring.
No, like 14 AWG stranded wire like we commonly use in conduit. THHN
@@ElectromagneticVideos in the uk we use twin (very similar to your type of wiring) in Europe I believe they use singles (7 strand) in conduit (more of a flexible cable) and I don’t actually think we can legally use wire nuts anymore in the uk so it would be interesting to see if the wagos handle it better than the wire nuts (Wago person myself tho)
@@adamdavis2788 Interesting that your cable is similar to ours and not to the European way of doing things. I had read somewhere that way back when wire nuts were introduced to the UK that the initial ones were defective/unreliable/hazardous or similar and they were then (with good reason) banned. Now that I have an IR camera I probably will do a similar test as above but with more insight into which heat up fastest, and maybe some stranded cable.
In Iraq and South Africa, both places that used British plugs and 230V, I remember seeing terminal strip type connections for household wiring - a plastic trip with multiple connectors. Each connector was like a small tube with a screw at each end - you put the wires in each end, tightened the screws and were done. Always liked them - easy to use, easy to undo, nice and solid. I use modern versions of them for industrial and control type applications but they are never used in residential wiring over here. Are they at all used in the UK? What did you use before Wagos?
@@ElectromagneticVideos before wagos we used terminal blocks in domestic situations now the only time we really use them is when we need to connect two 10mm or larger cables together (not done that often) even tho the connector blocks are completely fine to use
The yellow twist on connector ( Marrette) is designed to be installed on untwisted wires. The black set screw connector is called a Marr. Both are Leviton products.
Can you provide sources for your assertions? Never seen a Leviton wire nut…they provide them with some products, not sure about them producing them.
@@wm79198 ,
They were made in Canada. Quebec, I think. My Master Sparky filled me in on the rest.
The yellow one is a twist-on type connector, possibly an Ideal Wire-Nut which can have straight or twisted wires. The black one is a Marrette (AKA Marr) for straight wires. Good twisted wires don't really need anything except an insulator such as good electrical tape to have a good electrical connection. Codes may not allow it, though.
Great demonstration. It would be interesting to measure the temperatures during the experiment with an infrared thermometer that displays a color image of various temperatures.
You should try this with commercial or industrial grade devices with back wire contacts: two interlocking serrated brass plates with a screw to clamp them together. Similar to a simple screw terminal, but they don't require a hook in the wire and appear to have more current-carrying cross-section.
Also, that 14 AWG wire is probably what's heating up the screw terminals.
My house was built in 1956. The #14 circuits have to be hooked to 20 amps for the load to hold. A lot lot of receptacles are bakelite. It doesn't melt. It just crumbles. Most of the older wirenuts had set screws. I was surprised. 🐀🐾
Interesting! So is that 14/2 wire or some form of separate #14 conductors? I have a lot more confidence in Bakelite than some of the modern softer plastics. I read somewhere is was a really revolutionary product. And your wire-nuts with screws - some of the better or higher temperature ones still do! Do you have any of the receptacles that support both the modern and old style plugs with prongs 90 degrees rotated from what we are used to?
@@ElectromagneticVideos There were a few, but they've been replaced. I thought some of the 20 amp plugs had a sideways neutral. Lowe's still sells those plugs.
@@djratino Yes - modern plugs with one of the pins sideways as you describe is the standard 120V 20A and the receptacles for it have a T shaped slot to fit both 15A and 20A plugs. And similar foe 240V 15A and 20A plugs.
I think any connection relying on spring tension will fail over time due to heat. The best connections are the twisted kind with a crimp. But that's if you're not willing to use thermite 😂
You might be the “Project Farm” of electromagnetics!
LOL! I have seen some of their videos which are really neat!
I have asked project farm to do this video
I’d love see you test wago vs wire nut, with 4 or 5 wires in each.
I currently wire everything with wago lever style connectors and I’ve yet to have an issue. I feel like they are superior to wire nuts one you get to 3+ wires in the same connection. I find it very difficult to get 3,4,5 wires twisted perfectly into a nut without at least one of them being loose and sloppy. Too much room for error imo. With wago connectors, all the wires have the same connection no matter how many there are.
You make a good point about a wire nut with many wires - I will try and test that sometime. Unfortunately because of the toxic fumes I do these tests outside and as we move into fall weather it becomes less feasible to experiment outside. So I cant make any promises when. Having said that, I'm keeping my eyes out for something I can make into a simple fume hood which would mean I could so some of these smaller tests in the comfort of my basement workshop as the weather gets colder.
This is awesome. Wish someone did the same testing with common automotive connectors like Deutsch DTM, DT and DTP, Metripack and others.
I will look into doing that! I have a 100A DC battery charger that might be able to do the equivalent mimicking the DC from a vehicle. I haven't had much experience with auto connectors. You listed a few - what would be the top 5 (maybe the most common or failure prone?) for a test?
@@ElectromagneticVideos with automotive connectors it not really the connections (if done right) it the corrosion that occurs over time. Some connectors are better sealed than others
@@ElectromagneticVideos I would say the two most common series of aftermarket connectors for automotive use would be the Deutsch and the Metripack. Both series offer different max current connectors.
For Deutsch:
1. DTM =max rating of 7.5 amp per pin continuous. Max AWG 16Ga with appropriate pin and socket (0460-010-20141 Pin PN, 0462-005-20141 Socket PN)
2. DT = max rating of 13 amps per pin continuous. Max AWG 14Ga with appropriate pin and socket (0460-215-16141 Pin PN, 0462-209-16141 Socket PN)
3. DTP = max rating of 25 amps per pin continuous. Max AWG 12Ga.
For Metripack (Delphi,Aptiv)
1. 150 series = max rating of 14 amps per pin continuous. Max AWG 14Ga.
2. 280 series = max rating of 30 amps per pin continuous. Max AWG 10Ga.
If you don't have the crimp tooling already the initial investment might put you off from testing these. But it is an awesome video idea that I know many people would find useful.
The biggest thing that always gets highly debated is how the knockoff Deutsch connectors (most common on amazon under JRReady brand) compare to the real Deutsch connectors and pins (easily ordered from Prowireusa.com).
I wish I had access to a big DC current controlled supply so I could perform the testing myself :).
@@hotrodpaully1 Of course! Its a terrible corrosive environment particularly where I am in the winter with all the salt on the roads.
@@SpeedNessRx7 I'll have to see if any of the crimp tools I have would work with those connectors. Not a fair test of they arnt properly crimped. If you can get an old school non-electronic 100A battery charger or old school non-electronic DC arc welder and hook either to a variac you can probably do it. Will need a DC clamp on (or in-line) ammeter - many are AC only. Happy to help and offer suggestions if you want to try it!
When I replaced all the receptacles in my mobile home, many of the original ones had ONLY push-in connections. No screws available. And the manufacturer used them as junctions also, without pigtails, which means the whole load of the branch circuit was traveling through the first push in connection. Some of the receptacles were physically broken into pieces. I replaced everything with spec grade receptacles which didn't even have push in connections. I wired them in with pigtails wherever possible so the screw terminals were bearing as small of a load as possible. The main reason I did this was to upgrade everything to tamper resistant outlets since I've got a small child in the home. However the massive upgrade to the connections is more than welcomed. Before replacing the receptacles, the lights would noticeably dim when turning on a vacuum cleaner. That no longer happens. I also replaced all the light switches, using commercial grade parts. Half of them were physically broken. I'm amazed that they were still working, although they felt very mushy instead of clicking into place.
You answered something I had been wondering - does anyone use those push-in connectors. Talk about a manufacturer skimping to save a few $! You sure went from the worst to the best! And its interesting to see a visible result of doing the improvement. Your kid is so lucky to have a parent looking out for safety like that! What a great story that started with a really bad situation! Thanks for sharing!
I lived at a mobile home with a space heater in a bedroom. It failed at one of those push-in connections. And it was only used on the 750 watt mode!
@@djratino if it were up to me, those stab in connections would be outlawed. Who in the hell ever decided they were safe? It seems like the only ones that don't cause problems are the ones which don't get used.
@@djratino I have not heard one comment with favorable story about receptacles where those connectors were used. They really seem like ticking time bombs!
Thank you. The wire nut, if done well is the best....
Yes - completely agree - simple, works well, and has stood the test of time.
I would love to see videos testing different breaker brands and trying to trip them by applying heavy loads. It would give some excellent data about which breaker is the most safe to use.
I like this idea however it will take a large sample size of each brand to get any kind of conclusive results. Only testing one or two or even 10 of each brand wouldn't be all that accurate considering the level of mass production at hand.
Your absolutely right about needing a huge sample size. And maybe even bought at different times to get different manufacturing runs. I would like to test one of the infamous Federal Pioneer ones though!
As an electrician myself most I find troubleshooting problems lead back to the push in connectors they can fail often even when used properly.
This is what I find a little disconcerting about the recent trend toward Wago push connectors. When you look at the contact surface area of push or guillotine connectors, the surface area of direct contact is much smaller than that of a twisted pair. Add a little moisture and corrosion, and you get jacking of contact surfaces, with corrosion prying the old connection apart. We did something similar in the 80's, and professionals initially loved the idea because they could save a minute for each receptacle. It was a few years before guys started seeing major problems. Is the Wago so different that we can be confident we aren't making the same mistake?
Most of the issues I've found is due to people not ensuring a solid connection, usually outlets first, usually those stabs, but alot of it is also very old and has corrosion. I wouldnt doubt that alot of the ones involving the screw down connectors had more to do with not cleaning the corrosion off before reconnection. Whilst I might be shaving a few nanometers of material off and technically downgrading the current capacity, the fact that it's all withing the connection area, a larger section of the wire, and the added resistance from corrosion, I'd say you are probably best off always cleaning the surface of clearly old wires that are no longer shiny, let alone something that has turned green lol. Only time I've seen problems with wirenuts was once again either some bad corrosion that wasnt ever dealt with, or just improper application of the wirenuts. I've actually seen alot of 14 going off to an outlet/ light on a 20 amp run, and since I'm not the boss, we dont usually try to replace it with the customers approval, but for how often I've seen it, I've never seen it being involved as a catalyst for casing melting down. I am not sure I've ever seen a push style or wago in any of our jobs existing. We're pretty rural and it's mostly alot of old residential that we deal with. Only time I've seen the push in style are built into can lights really, and most of which are new with us installing them, so I guess I have seen them and used them to a degree. Weve probably replaced one that had that built in but it's hard to remember all of the work weve done.
@@spelunkerd WAGO's (var-go) 222 series lever connectors have been in use for about 20 years now and 221 series close to 10. They aren't the only types of spring clamp connectors either, which as a class of connector have been around for quite a long time. The whole class of connector might be a new concept for many electricians et al in the USA but they have not burnt the rest of the world down so far. Arguably the constant spring tension, a similar concept to the conical spring in the wire nuts used in the USA, make them a superior option to screw terminals that often work themselves loose with thermal cycling. Many people come across ancient screw terminals that require considerable force to undo and assume that they have been making a tight joint all the time. That is definitely not the case. Often the apparent tightness of old screw terminals is the corrosion and other surface debris in the screw thread preventing the screw from being turned easily. Rest assured, using a WAGO connector is not a ticking timebomb.
In electronics , those breadboards you use to prototype have similar push-in connectors, they fail all the time and lose their holding ability. I suspect wago's have the same problem.
@@mychromebook9935 Compare the price-point for breadboards and Wagos.
Material and construction makes the difference, as do the certifications you'll never find on a breadboard.
A perfectly done wire nut works great. Few houses that I have seen have perfect wire nuts.
Well that's an interesting point. I wonder what the real word failure rate of each connector type is
Very neat test! Thank you.
I had always suspected that there was a lot less engineering margin with push-in connectors such as the In-Sure and press-in outlet backwiring holes. The twisted and bolted connections are going to have a lot more surface area to transfer the current from one conductor to another. Looks like this proves my guess right!
The Marrette connectors are neat. They are very early in design. I have restored several early 1930's Frigidaire belt-drive refrigerators which had the same Marrette connectors on the motor leads. They have a Delco repulsion-induction motor, which all seem to have come with those connectors.
We call those outlet backwiring holes "lazy electrician holes" because they encourage people to take shortcuts.
A couple more connection designs I want to test is the twisted, soldered, and friction-taped; and crimped and soldered and heat-shrinked connections. Those are very labor-intensive connections from the very olden days.
Yes - and in spite of the heated discussion somewhere below or on one of the other threads, I now convinced that as you said the surface area of twisting under Marr connector is unbeatable for many situations.
I just subscribed to your channel! The old refrigeration equipment looks so interesting. I never heard of belt driven electric refrigerator. Was that maybe before someone had the brilliant idea to put the motor inside the sealed system? I'm sure i will find the answer when I have watched some of your videos.
Of the connections you mentioned that intrigues me is crimped connections and soldered connections. And the reason is the local cable manufacturer that we use to make cables for a product at my workplace swears to me that crimping is more reliable than soldering. Now these are low current signal carrying cables as opposed to power. Have you seen vintage ones from either type do better than the over over time?
@@ElectromagneticVideos
Thanks for the reply! It's funny how many people eschew and scorn the venerable old wire nut. But, they would not have lasted so long as a product had they not been reliable and safe. I find it silly how people get emotional, aggressive, and argumentative about wire connectors! I would like to think I have more significant things to get all worked up about!
In the late 20's GE was one of the first to commercialize a sealed motor compressor. They sold the Monitor Top "DR" for Domestic Refrigerator. It had a massive steel dome on top with the compressor and motor inside. It has an oscillating cylinder compressor and induction motor. The bottom of the dome is attached with a bolt circle and can be removed for rebuilding. Quite a machine, and very collectible! Before this, almost all refrigeration machines were belt-driven. One of the challenges to making early sealed units was material compatibility. The first (relatively) safe refrigerant was SO2 (sulphur dioxide) which has very limited material compatibility. The early sealed designs struggled with keeping the SO2 from degrading the materials used to construct the motor, and electrical pass-through terminals which transferred power into the sealed housing. GE developed some fused-glass terminal seals which made them the leader for decades in this area.
I tend to think that crimping is a good idea for most applications. Soldering has its place as well. When you do both, you have the best. Crimping will retain the wire, even under fault conditions such as loose connections. The heat can melt solder, which can release the wire, or the solder can flow and create shorts. Solder will completely seal out corrosion and prevent deterioration, so in my opinion crimped and then soldered with a very minimal amount of 2% silver leaded solder is the longest-lasting connection when any sort of exposure to moisture is possible. I see wiring from 40's era things with that technique, still looking like new.
@@davida1hiwaaynet Believe it or not we had an SO2 fridge at our cottage (aka cabin) when I was a kid. Dad got it at an old farm auction so it was old when we got it. But modern compared to what you described - the compressor was already at the bottom. It lasted a few years till the thermostat broke - I replaced it with one from a junked fridge but a year or two later parents got a new one that was drastically marked down with a scratch. So I extracted the fridge heating cooling section without perforating it and made a not very effective air conditioner with a fan. i was innovative as kid! Eventually as it was being thrown out the evaporator got perforated. Oh did it stink!
Interesting your comments about crimping - I never though about solder in hot environments - do electronics and if its hot enough to melt solder other things will already have failed. Have done crimp + solder - but do it because my crimping is so bad - a lot of small signal connectors need a very costly tool to do it right and each one needs a different tool. Always fascinated to hear what has lasted so long long and survived. Thanks for taking the dime to write such a detailed response!
I'd like to see a similar test where you find the failure point in amps of each connector individually.
WAGO is pronounced "VAGO" and is from Europe as far as I know.. my former boss, who was an electrician, said those set-screw Marrette connectors were outlawed (Canada) because as the wires heat and cool over time, the set screw can back off and the connection loosens. From online spec sheets, it seems that they still sell them though.. I don't pre-twist unless I have more than 2-3 wires going into a wire nut.. or if I need to connect a couple with a twisted lead. The wires will twist as the nut is installed.
I have since hard that too. I wonder how common the correct pronunciation is in Canada and the US?
I’ve always used the old school Marrette brand set screw connectors for splices where I have 4+ wires to terminate. A little more expensive but a good quality connection.
They really do seem to be the best!
If I’m putting 55 amps through any circuit designed for 20, my house deserves to burn down😂
You may consider the affect of corrsosion over time. Those connections that provide least contact between conductors will be most susceptible.
You know - particularly with dissimilar metals!
Much appreciated. Confirms what I have always suspected. I re-wired a sister in laws house once to convert from back stabbed to side screwed.
Your welcome! Some many comments about replacing the back stab outlets!
@@ElectromagneticVideos I wonder what if the back stab was actually the problem? the blue outlet was maybe a better quality plastic, and maybe the black outlet would have melted the same way whether it was backstabbed or side screwed. I would be interested to see two of the same black outlet, one back stabbed and one side screwed on circuit like this. Thanks!
@@nicksz8909 Very valid point. Adding a back stab was a last minute idea and I didnt have two identical outlets in my junk box. The different plastic could certainly have made a significant difference, or even internal construction of the outlet.
@@ElectromagneticVideos Thanks for the reply! I think the testing that I mentioned would really help to show whether it is the back stab or just cheap outlets that are the problem in normal conditions.
@@nicksz8909 Also might be interesting to see if SPEC outlets do much better than regular ones or if its that they are more mechanically robust for repeated plug insertions.
A number of people have told a few stories how they had to replace all the outlets in new installs after the outlets started randomly failing months later. Others have told of how problems surfaced years later. To me, that means more than any quick informal test I might do here.
Great test. You should use some sort of thermometer to show what the temperature of each connection is during to test.
Thanks! And point taken! Will do that in the future!
Test method is not the best with connectors in series and with different gauge conductors on each end of the circuit. Each connector will have a different resistance and the 14 ga wire has more resistance than the 12 ga., essentially becoming a resistor itself. In a series circuit, all resistance is additive. Given a constant circuit current, the voltage drop across each connector will vary. In this test, the meter was set up to read voltage drop across the combination of connectors. At 20amps there was .35 volts combined loss but hard to say which connector had the highest voltage drop. Would of been better to test each connector individually with same voltage and amperage (e.g. 120v @20amps) while measuring voltage drop across the connector . Using ohms law(R=v/I), the resistance through the connection can be calculated. Highest resistance connection will produce the most heat and will most likely fail the quickest. There are other variables that will determine failure time beyond the scope of this response but you could continue with destructive testing by holding same voltage and cranking up the current until circuit opens while timing. I would bet the twist on connector (marrette) will carry the highest load the longest.
#12 AWG copper will melt open in a renewable link fuse at 235 Amps. #14 AWG copper melts open at about 166 amps in a renewable link fuse. These wire link fuses went out of use about 75 or 80 years ago. They were quite popular in the 1900s through the end of WWII.
I have heard about fuses like that. Interesting to hear the details. I do remember fuses that had a replaceable thin wire between some ceramic and an asbestos pad for household branch circuits in some 240V countries. I guess in the old days that was the simplest way to do things.
I think it would be interesting to see poor usage of wire nuts. Maybe pre twist, no twist, poor twist, stranded and solid, etc. Great videos!
Thanks! I might just do that when I do some more wago tests. Interesting thing is that there seems to be significant disagreement as to whether wire should be pre-twisted when using wire nuts. I'm in the pre-twist camp....
Another relevant demo. Thanks for sharing.
That you so much Thomas!
I wish there was some way to include the damage that wire nuts do to the wire. It isn't always possible to cut down and strip new wire. When a wire is pulled from a wago, it's perfect. The wire that has been in a wire nut is bent, scored, and fatigued
Very good point. Even just the variation in good/new wire connections. To do definitive tests, one would really have to setup situations like you describe and then have a thousand electricians of degrees of experience make the connections, and the test each and characterize the variation in results.
Thanks for carrying out this test, and posting the results.
I rewired my parent's basement, and all the wiring I could reach in a 2 storey home, in 1969, in house built in the 1930's. The power co. inspector commented to my mother that a very nice job was done.
Since that time I always used MARR set screw connectors when needed.
When newer, "easier to use" connectors appeared I still stuck to the screw-type MARR connector because, from a mechanical standpoint, they performed a better job than the "easier" ones.
Glad you proved my judgment correct.
On another note, I am glad to see that a brief, 2 seconds or less, 250% overload on the wiring is not harmful provided good connecting practice is followed. Never liked the "push to fit" hardware, especially not on plumbing jobs.
👌👌👍👍 Somewhat surprising is that the #6 push in receptacle should have been equally as good as the #1 Ideal and #2 Wago. Had these three been tested together with a #14 conductor, I suspect the Wago would be the first to fail.
Yes - you would think it would would be just as good as the ideal which is just a push in too. No idea with the receptacle is so much worse, but many beope in the comments have reported real-life experiences with them failing so its a very real concern. At some point I should do a #14 test for all of them!
I wired a finished basement using the push-in connectors on the outlets. I will NEVER make that mistake again! My outlets, were rated for #12 gauge wire, rather than the #14 gauge, but, that didn't make it any better. ALWAYS use the screws, and wrap the wire around the screws. You want the contact area between the wire and the pads to match or exceed the cross section area of the wire itself, to ensure that there is no more temperature rise at the connection point, than in the wire itself. That will guarantee safety when plugging in high amperage loads, like hair driers, space heaters, toasters/toaster ovens, or even large vacuum cleaners.
I wired my basement the same way about 17 years ago. Since then I've replaced every receptacle and terminated on the screws. I ran into several outlets wired with the push in connections that would lose power when you moved or torqued on the plug. Several would lose it with only slight pressure or would require you to move it around to get power at all. I had a couple where you could even hear slight arcing in them when that happened. I finally decided I didn't want my house to burn down so I replaced them all and terminated them on the screws. No problems since then.
So how did the problems you must have had appear? Did the occasional outlet burn up when a high load device was plugged it? Or did they just randomly go bad?
@@ElectromagneticVideos My problem with push in connections on outlets and switches was random open circuits. This resulted in call backs to troubleshoot and correct. I quit using push in devices 40 years ago,
@@WesB1972 Gee that must have been costly and frustrating! I cant believe they still have that feature - I have not seen a single comment here - or anywhere else - where anyone says they are any good!
Thanks for sharing this!
Your welcome! Glad you liked it!
I would have liked to have seen a yellow wire nut that wasn't pre-twisted and would have liked to have seen the screw down outlet on the 12 gauge wire. Oh and the use of an infrared thermometer would have been interesting.
All great suggestions, particularity since I ended up getting an IR camera used in some of the later videos. So it would certainly be worth doing again sometime in a slightly better way!
Great test! It's discouraging how houses get more expensive as components get cheaper and more prone to fail. This isn't progress. Wagos are a hard no for me. Marretts and screws on all connections for trouble free installation.
Well thank you! I would also stick to Marrs and screws other than possibly for a low current light fixtures or something like that. But in fairness to the Wagos they did handle rated currents. I would be concerned if they were in circuit where significant overcurrents were a regular occurrences such as for induction motors (pumps and compressors for example) that can often draw five or more times the rated running currents for a few seconds during startup. I'm not sure when these particular Wago connectors first appeared, but it would be interesting to know they long term reliability under those circumstances.
Great video. The Ideal connector (far left) and the duplex receptacle using the push-in terminals seem to be doing the worst. Both rely on the back pressure of the contacts on the wires. The others rely on screw down torque or twisting together the wires themselves. I'm surprised that the Wago (lever action) connector fared so well.
Thanks! I wonder if inside the wago there is a larger surface area to make contact with the wire rather than more of an almost single point contact. I would certainly use the wago for something like a ceiling light but would stick to marr (wire nuts) for anything that could be expected to carry significant current.
Great video
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
I don't know if you use them in US but in Brazil we have some that are a series of short copper tubes with screws on each side housed on a ceramic encasing. You insert the wires each opposite end of the copper tube and use the screws to hold them we call them (in Portuguese) connection rulers (I think the name used in English is terminal strips). They are similar to set crew connectors but with several in parallel on a non conductive encasing like a polymer or ceramic.
I know exactly what you are describing! They are not used for house wiring here but I have used them for industrial automation - I really like them. The ones I have used have plastic insulation - I can imagine the ceramic ones are so much safer when overheating.
Brazil? Cool - I was born in Rio de Janeiro when my parents were posed to the Canadian Embassy there (before Brasília). Greetings for Canada!
@@ElectromagneticVideos Cool. They changed the capital fom Rio to Brasilia in 1960. Now I know the lower bound of your age same. I'm just a litle younger I was born a few weeks before Kennedy was killed.
Ohhh you are Canadian nice!
@@agranero6 Ha! You must be a detective! Actually I must be almost the same age as you - I'm guessing the Embassy did not move to Brasilia immediately. I remember my mom telling about hearing of the Kennedy assassination from some American neighbors who had heard it on shortwave radio almost immediately when it happened.
Thank you for doing this....
Your welcome!
Circuit breakers only allow a large surge current for a few seconds, not a half hour. This allows things like motors that draw a huge amount current to start without tripping the breaker
Otherwise I very much liked your test.
@@yodasbff3395 Glad you liked it! Look at the spec sheets for some breakers like the common (at least in North America) BR type ones. Some have spec sheets that have a surprising range of allowable thermal tripping time for currents of for example 150% of rated value - in some cases the range being zero seconds to up to half an hour. You buy a breaker and it is "guaranteed" to trip somewhere within that range. You do have to dig deep into Eaton's website for some of the specs - not something that is in the more generic brochures. I do wonder as we move towards electronically controlled breakers like AFCI ones if eventually we will end up with very precise spec curves rather than regions. I do worry about the added complexity and reliability over time. Your so right about huge motor current surges at startup - most people have no idea things like induction motors can easily draw 6 times the rated current at startup.
There are two trip mechanisms in the breakers you're familiar with: an electromagnetic trip for dead shorts and a thermal heater/bimetallic strip for overloads. The thermal is not precise, depends a bit on ambient temperture, and takes time to trip. It definitely takes a very long time at modest overloads. Then there are thing like Federal Pioneer's breakers that just didn't trip...
How are you not getting shocked when touching the wire? Is it because it’s low voltage
This guy does good work.
Thanks Jason!
Very educational and very entertaining! Thank you 🙂
Thanks! It sure entertained me as I did it!
It looks like the wires below the yellow wire nut are touching, which would reduce the current load on the actual wire nut. Also, the wires in a wire nut should not be twisted. They will twist themselves if you install it with proper technique.
Another excellent case of old stuff being better than the new shite!
ha!
the whole test is absolutely moot the second you take the consistency of the wire out of the equation. do the same exact test across the board with all 14 gauge wire, and then you can have some non-biased results.
My present house is full of receptacles and light switches carrying downstream loads via push in back connections and they are all failing. I replaced a dozen or so the first year I was here, and a few every year since. Never had to replace an outlet that had only single wires for hot, neutral and ground. One I replaced a couple of years ago I used the ideal connectors to create pigtails because the wire insulation was burnt back to within a couple of inches of entering the box. The circuit was never overloaded but one morning I noticed my shaver charger was very hot, so was the outlet cover.
So the ideal connectors somehow overheated under normal load. That s really surprising. I wonder of the iriginal overheating somehow altered the wire and the connector didn't have a good connection because of that?
@@ElectromagneticVideos no, the ideal connectors have been fine. The original outlet wired with back stab overheated, burning the wiring. I cut back the burnt wires and used ideal to connect pigtails to replace the outlet.
@@Sylvan_dB Oh - ok - I misunderstood! I can sure see how the Ideal connectors were "ideal" for your situation! Glad they worked!
The heating of the 14ga wires by resistance cannot be distinguished from the push in backwire connection. Better comparison would be all 14ga and wire lenths equal.
The wires are supposed to twist together from torque of the nut. Normal circuit breakers do not go that much higher than rating on resistive loads.
Current is the same through a whole circuit. Same heating on each end
@@ReubenHorner Heat is caused by resistance, smaller wire equals higher resistance.
Isn't the idea connector and the wago essentially the same thing as backstabing the outlet? It's just a thin piece of metal that slightly cuts into the wire.
The wago has a lever to lock the wire in, but the Ideal seems like the backstab outlet as you suggest. What odd is how much poorer the backstab outlet is.
Would recommend using a FLIR camera or even a cheap Hanh held temperature gun to check temperatures. The one hole lug that connects the #14 to stab in st rear of receptacle is only rated for one wire. If you have two wires inspectors will tell you to use a two hole lug.
Good point about the FLIR camera - I did get one for my cell phone which I used for later videos such as the Knob and Tube one. I will have op repeat this one sometime with the camera.
Push-in type connections wiggle and have very little contact area compared to twisting and screws.
Yes! I would avaoid them becuase of that but many commenters swear by them!
Marr yellow wire nuts are also great blowgun ammo using 1/2 emt cut to 3 feet as the blowgun.
Never heard of that use before!
Interesting test👍
Thanks for the informative video. I also would like to see how stranded wire compares since the Wago is my goto over wire nuts for stranded. I do love the convenience of the Wago lever nuts. I can absolutely see the solid wire performing better with wire nuts since the nut is not really doing anything if wire is twisted. I have seen many issues with wire nuts and stranded especially if different gauge stranded are connected under the same nut. I see comments on here about stranded wire not used in high voltage or not ok to use. How do they think high voltage is done in the industrial environment. I am an industrial electrician for over 25 years and we almost exclusively use stranded wire from 24VDC control wire to the large incoming power feeds and high voltage motors. Honestly solid is limited in use to basically smaller size house wiring, inductors and transformers.....
I might redo/do some more of these next summer when its warmer now that I have an IR camera. Next summer because they have to be done outside or at least in an open garage because of the noxious burning plastic fumes.
Your industrial/high power/high voltage background really adds an additional perspective to all of this. Interesting point about stranded - I think the largest solid I have seen is #10. I guess much bigger than that and its more of a rod than a wire!
Here is a question for you - so what is the largest (stranded) size of wires that is typically used in wire nuts? And what to do use for larger wires?
@@ElectromagneticVideos
Yes #10 is usually the largest I see as solid. Rare times I have used large wire nuts on #10. More often than that I typically go to the crimp on lugs on anything #10 or larger. The lugs are cheaper than T&B motor pig tail connectors. The motor pigtails are neat because after crimping they slip together and go into a rubber boot. The boots are nice but are expensive (I for example a 10HP motor would need six of these to completely wire up). I see the crimp ring lugs and high voltage splice tape used the most above 5HP.
@@ThriftyToolShed Of course - crimping!
Interesting about motor connectors. High voltage splice tape - I'm guessing an industrial version of plain old electrical tape?
@@ElectromagneticVideos
Usually 3M tapes such as Scotch 70 Self-Fusing Silicone Tape and Over wrap of the Scotch 130C Liner less HV Rubber tape.
@@ThriftyToolShed I just looked it up a one of my electronics suppliers : "Dielectric Strength ASTM-D1000-76 34kV/mm" very impressive! I was not expecting that from tape! Glad you told me about that - never know when that might be useful!
Great video sir! I enjoyed watching
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
Great tests! Addition of thermal imaging camera would be interesting.
I'm looking into it!
When the wires are twisted together properly, the wire nut is essentially not part of the equation at all.
Good point. Having said that, they still provide some mechanical strength and insulation.
@@ElectromagneticVideos Yup. That's the idea. Insulation and keeping the wires from untwisting. I really like the Wago myself though. Very convenient especially in tight spaces and for future reworking. Untwisting and retwisting wires fatigues them and not supposed to reuse wire nuts. Also much harder to get wire nuts right and tight at 3 or more conductors. Wago is nearly fool proof.
@@ken830 I would sure use them for connecting things like ceiling lamps with thin stranded wire to solid wire in the junction box. I was a bit dubious about them at high current loads but to be fair they did hold up to past the rated current.
Makes me think of sticking with wire nuts, pre-twisting good idea
It is a nice setup however due to the 14 gauge wire on that back stab outlets, that 14 gauge wire will heat up significantly quicker therefore causing that outlet to fail prematurely compared to the other terminations. You will have to redo the experiments with all 14 or all 12 gauge wire.
yes - its not an apples to apples comparison. The reason for the #14 is the back stab outlet specifically required #14 in the instructions.
It's low voltage to pass a controlled current though what is effectively a short. The power source is an AC welder controlled by a variac (variable transformer).
Back in the early 70s when the backstabbed outlets first arrived and would except number 12 wire my Company had me wire an entire apartment building with them. Two months later I was back replacing every single outlet.
Besides being frustrating, it must have been an enormous cost to the company. I can believe they still equip outlets with them.
We're you using copper or aluminum. If aluminum, was it the old technology aka 1350 AL, or the then new technology aka 8000 AL ?? My understanding is many homes, apartments and especially cheap double wide mobile homes used aluminum wiring from about the mid 60s, to the early to mid 70s due to the copper shortage caused by the post WWII housing boom and the Vietnam War.
@@Sparky-ww5re Never occurred to me that different alloys might have been used. As far as I know it was very common here (Ontario, Canada) at that time - I didn't know there was a copper shortage - that sure explains the the switch to Aluminum.
Very nice experience, but what is the practical proof at all?
All parts were used way off their spec.
Here in Germany we're using Wagos and push-in Installations (sockets, switches) for decades w/o any issues.
Interesting to hear they have been use in Germany for a long time. Sockets with push in connectors have been in use here for a long time too but with not so good results. I think the issue may be with our lower voltage (120V) compared to yours, the currents are twice as high, particularly for heating devices so we are closer to the point where things start to go bad.
For me the interesting things was I have heard many people say Wago and push in connectors make better connections because they are newer. This test seems to indicate otherwise.
I would tend towards using Wire-nuts for higher current loads based on this. The other connector which I didnt test which was used in Germany when I was kid (we lived in Bonn for 4 years in the early 1970s) were the connectors that are a bit like barrier strips and have little metal cylinders where you push a wire in on each end and then tighten a screw on each end to hold it. Usually there are a few of these in row. I always have been impressed with those and have occasionally used them for automation stuff.
@@ElectromagneticVideos These connectors are called Lüsterklemme.
Seven years ago I've renovated my house from 72. My pro electrician and l completely updated and upgraded the electrics to today's standard.
By this we found and removed quite some wire nuts and Lüsterklemmen - all Wago now. There is no such debate about them compared to the States, as I'm recognizing it on TH-cam.
All quality brands here in Germany are using push-in technology, only, for standard house installations.
The installation is much easier and way faster. Also changes are super easy.
By the way, Wago has also a push-in version w/o the lever. This is rather the standard one and cheaper. The one with the lever is necessary if one wants to connect stranded wires directly.
But I will always buy quality stuff from well-known companies - electrics are not a topic to mess around with.
@@gundelfish Lüsterklemme - just looked that up - thats them! They seem to be marketed over here as "Eurostyle Terminal Strips". I have always liked that style of connector - not sure if it is even allowed here for home wiring.
One thing I have always noticed is that German products are generally built way better than North America stuff, and also cost a bit more. I have always assumed its something in the culture that Germans are willing to pay more for better quality while over here cheaper always wins. That was really apparent in many electronic items before most manufacturing was moved overseas.
Thank you, very informational.
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
Very timely presentation as I was curious how the wagos work. Since you are becoming the official TH-cam wire burner, might need to invest in a flir camera. Thanks so much !! Ken
I had never used them before, so it was interesting to see. Some youtubers seem to be proclaiming them the best thing since sliced bread. I'm less convinced of that now but they do fill a certain niche. Glad you liked the video. It actually might be fun to have a flir camera - I'll have to see if I can find a flir imager that I can record the data stream directory from rather than the common integrated sensor/display units. An I'm honored to be "the official TH-cam wire burner". I'm really amazed how the 14/2 video really took off - who would have thought!
@@ElectromagneticVideos I agree the wire nut is by far the most reliable, but those wagos as sweet when you have to swap a wire. I’ve tried the ideal, and I found you can remove the wire - However, the wire does need to be a fresh strip. I was amazed at how much current you could push before bad things happened. I’d love to see the heat map of those little connectors at higher current. Anyhow, they are UL listed so I suspect someone, somewhere tested all this. You my friend are very good at talking this through and appreciate the video.
@@MrKen59 Your right - you cant beat the wago if you have to change something. But I think for any high power stuff wire nuts are it. I couldn't agree with you more about how well they all survived such over-current abuse. really impressive. By the way - I really appreciate your feedback about my talking - I have been wondering if I was anywhere close to a good balance between saying too much or too little .
It would be interesting to do a milliohm resistance reading on each individual connector. The ones with the highest reading would get the hottest and the ones I would not use but then again, who would draw 50 or 100 A of service residentially?
I could do that with a voltmeter across each connector and use the voltage and (known) current to get the milliohms. As far as who would draw 50A or more, the purpose was really to see how how big the margin of safety is - its actually quite impressive given this sort of wiring is typically used for 15A max. Having said that, things like motors can draw many times (I have seen 6x) their running current for a few seconds while starting up so for things that I would prefer to have components that handle larger currents well.
Can you make a video going over the power supply you're using to do this test. Thanks.
I will!
With current flowing through those bare wires you are able to touch them without getting a shock. Is that because the wire is a better path to follow than your hand?
Its actually because it is low voltage. Since the wire is shorted at the end with the wire nut, it has very low resistance, so only a 1 or 2 volts is needed to drive the large current. So this makes the test quite safe voltage-wise while still making the wire experience the various degrees of overcurrent. If we had a huge 120V load at the end instead of the wire-nut short and used 120V to drive the same current, we would get the same heating for the same current but it would not be safe to touch.
@@ElectromagneticVideos It would be wonderful if you'd consider making a video on this subject! I'm (very) new to your channel and so haven't made it too far back through your videos, so apologies if one already exists.
I had the same question in my mind as Dave asked. That so few people commented on this, the further I had to scroll to find even this one, the more I thought this had to be a stupid question. None the less it has still been slightly unnerving while watching your test videos!
@@lorddissy So the couple of recent videos that got popular actually are a poor representation of the rest of the content - which is a much more general smattering of technical things that I find interesting. So you may be disappointed if you look back hoping to find similar stuff.
The reason I can touch them is the voltage is really low: 1 or 2 volts! That is the voltage drop you get along a conductor when it carries power from the breaker panel to the load because the conductor is not a perfect conductor, but has a little resistance. So at the panel you might have 120V and maybe at the plug of a big heater it is only 118V. 2V is lost along the wire when the wire carries 10A (of course the are just illustrative numbers - they vary based on wire length etc). So that 2V at 10A means 20W is dissipated as heat in the wire. As long as there is 10A flowing it doesnt matter what the actual wire to wire voltage is - almost zero in this case or 120V for a real load: the heating is the same. Of course how much energy gets to the load does depened on the line to line voltage. In our case the voltage across the load (the wire nut connection) is essentially zero so its 0 watts. If we has a real 120V load 10A current would mean about 118V x 10A = 1180W would be delivered to the load, but the wore would still dissipate 20W. If I had done it that way I sure wouldnt be touching the wires! I might do an explanation video since many people have asked variations of the question. Hope this hastily written explanation has helped!
See my answer below!
It doesn't matter about current flowing through the cables, that doesn't determine whether you get an electric shock or not. What does is: the source voltage, the source resistance, the wire resistance, your body's resistance.
This would be really cool with even a cheap thermal camera. Also, what about trying this again with a simple bat of fiberglass insulation layed on top, or better yet, underneath? Would give it more of a "real world, in wall" result.
I'm going to look into thermal camera! But I did do a fiberglass test that I posted today. Enjoy: th-cam.com/video/Df7bAEdIILI/w-d-xo.html
@@ElectromagneticVideos already watched it. keep up the informative content!
The problem is simple: wagos are designed to eliminate twisting wires together. And wires need to be twisted together to allow a marrettte to be installed.
Wagos require no twisting of wires, and THATS the problem.
Good way of putting it. I might use Wagos for for things like an easy connection to a ceiling lamp where current is low. But really prefer wire nuts where larger currents are involved.
Of course you always have a 70 amp load. Not. Connections tight and accessible is the code. No back stab devices.
How are you pumping 70 amps through a bare copper wire and touching it and poking it without dying? Is it just because you're hoping you're less of a short circuit to the ground than that wire already has?
Because its essentially a short, the voltage needed to generate 70 Amps is only in the range of 1 to 2 volts. This is the same as the voltage drop that occur along the wire or across the connections in normal use, although you would hope the current never gets close to that value. Like the neutral wire in a real situation, the wire here is at about ground potential. I sure wouldn't be touching it if it was at 120v like the "live" wire in a real situation.
Would a solder joint hold up to this test?
In the Knob and Tube test I did in one of the following videos, a 100 year old solder joint covered with electrical tape was amazing, so I think it would. I think the the main weakness in all mechanical connectors is the often relatively small contact size so higher resistance at the connection. In spite of the higher resistivity of solder compared to copper, I suspect the much larger contact surface area really makes it a superior connection. But probably a case of it being way better than it needs to be for most applications.
Voltage drop across each separate connection will tell the story. Or an Infrared imager.
Yes - I did get a IR camera for the later wire in insulation videos.
Wago looks like it failed electrically before the ideal connection, even though the plastic melted first, the wago seemed to be the one that threw sparks
Yeah - but in fairness to both of them they only began to show signs of failure way beyond what they normally ever should be subjected to. Now that I have a IR camera at some time I will repeat the test and see which gets hot first.
What is the point? They are all acceptable at the rated amperage.
The comparizon makes no sense, because all the connectors are not rated for that kind of high Amps!
My main take-away from this demonstration is that when there's an obscene amount of electricity being pumped through bare wiring, its perfectly acceptable to touch those wires with my bare hands.
Just remember, I used a very low voltage for this test. Dont try that with 120V!
Rather than touching the connections, which is highly subjective.. use a digital thermometer.
I and IR thermometer in the latest video but its not great for small areas. I might get a FLIR camera ....
The yellow wire nut is doing nothing, since the wires are touching leading up to it. Also, why not try this with an IR imager?
I did get a Thermal camera and used in the follow-up videos.
Anyone notice the wires are a bit dark at the end of all that torture
Good observation! The heat causes a thin oxide layer to form on the outer surface of the copper making it look darker. Same thing happens to exposed copper that is not overloaded over years of gradual oxidation. Interesting thing about the oxide layer - it actually can be used as a semiconductor rectifier and devices made with copper oxide were used in application like battery chargers before modern high-current semiconductors were mass produced.
By the way - saw your vacuum motor burn up video - from my own experience I'll bet that gave off some noxious fumes!
I work in maintenance and I was having a problem with a flourescent lamp fixture .
I replaced the ballast using wegos and the fixture wouldn't turn on . I undid all the wegos then put them back and tried
it again. Still wouldn't turn on . I called up an electrician for the building and I told him about the problem and he suggested using wire nuts instead of the wegos. I flipped the switch after using the wire nuts. It came on like it was supposed to.
I always find in fascinating to hear real world accounts like yours. I have seen ballasts with very thin wires. Maybe they were just too thin for the wego to clamp to?
ive been upgrading switches to smart switches for my buddy. for making the connections im using the wago style, specifically due to the smart switches using stranded wire. otherwise ill use a wirenut, unless its in a low current application that will need to be taken down for service
Great content! Subscribed.
Thanks! Much appreciated!
The better thing to prove would be to use the same outlet for backstabbing and screw.... the plastic just may have had a lower melting point
Your absolutely right. It was a last minute idea to add the outlets to the test and I didn't have two identical ones.
When the outlet melted there was no contact with the last outlet on the line
I would like to say. It’s not surprising that the 14 awg push in got hotter and melted first.. It’s smaller wire. The actual connection didn’t fail. If you did that same test and screwed the 14 awg on to the device, The plug probably would have failed the same.
Your right - just to clarify, I used 1 for the push in because thats the cable size the push in instruction required.
You pointed out that you touching them to check temp wasn't very scientific, why didn't you use a laser thermometer?
I find its hard to point one of those accurately at small areas, at least one the hardware store one I have. And the test was really intended to see which failed first. I'm looking into a FLIR type camera. I think a close up of one connector or another as the current is interested might be more interesting and something to do in the future!
@@ElectromagneticVideos - I can see that.
How are you touching the bare wire without get shocked?
The voltage is low: 10V or less. Thats because the circuit is essentially a short and you need a low voltage to limit the current to reasonable values that would be flowing under normal load conditions.
why not use 14 gauges for all the connectors to be fair?
Prety pointless tests - once you exceed the permitted maximum current you are on your own and it does not matter if the plastic or the contact is going to fail first.
I'd be interested in measuring the the connection resistance of each of these BEFORE and AFTER the test. It seems, the yellow nut kind of hard-soldiered itself?
Does it make a difference how hard you fasten the nuts/screws or even clean the copper surface before attaching?
How long/many turns make a difference in the nuts?
Also, what about conventional screw terminals?
And for comparison: Where is the limit of soldiered connections?
I should do a more controlled test like that. Maybe when I get FLIR camera!
I always thought the wago connector was just shit compared to the standard twist wire nut. It's really impressive to see that it does survive to the same power that the screw connection does.
I was impressed how well they did and certainly did well at all rated currents. What I wonder is how decades of age may alter their internal mechanics. Some people have said they use them for low power lamps and I can see that. For something like an induction motor with high startup current surges, I would stick to wire nuts!
Same current, not power. Let's get the parameters right.
I’m replacing push in connectors from 1980 on my home, random circuit faults, bad grounds, great wire, poor connections
Multiple people have mentioned similar in the comments. What an necessary nuisance to have to do that!
In a residential home, EVERYONE should ALWAYS use commercial grade outlets in their house. The $1.29 outlets is too cheap and substandard. Spend the $4.00 for a commercial outlet.
To add to that - with the cost of installation labour these days being so much more than the cost of the outlet(s), it really doesn't make sense to skimp and save a few $ per outlet.
#14 has a 10sec fusing current of 166A so it had zero chance of surviving that
Someone even commented that in some (older) installations bare wire like was used for high current fuses in suitable constructed fuse holders.
But yes, #14 doesn't stand a chance at those types of currents ...
At 9:13 you state that both stick in and screw terminal receptacles are rated at 15A. That is not correct. A 15A receptacle is rated to be on a 20A circuit as far as pass thru current for the screw terminals. That is part of the code and will be the case if it has a UL listing.
I think you have hit on one of the few differences between US and Canadian electric codes. Last time I looked, up here in Canada you cant put a 15A receptacle on a 20A circuit. Not sure if its different in the US, but on that particular stick in receptacle it specifically said only#14 wire for the stick in connectors.