You'd have to get them to also agree to let you have Planeswalkers as commanders. Chandra Tribal is usually led by her flip-walker card which is a legendary creature.
Once played against someone who wanted to Rule Zero their Edgar Markov deck as an Edgar, Charmed Groom and Olivia, Crimson Bride partner with deck. It ended up being flavorful and not as oppressive as regular Edgar Markov.
Yeah my playgroup was thinking of doing a rule zero for any two commanders can partner with each other and I think that sounds super fun, potentially incredibly busted but very fun nonetheless. My first thoughts were Prosper with Faldorn and Katilda with Raggadragga
I had this deck constructed for a while. It was wedding themed and tried to win with Happily Ever After by stealing my opponent's permanents. I could basically only win if someone else was playing green and blue for me at the table!
I'm glad you mentioned this- my brother has a scarab god deck that he prefers to run as rule 0 partner commanders Gisa and Geralf (I know Visionary Stitcher is the Geralf, I don't remember which Gisa) when the play group is on board with it. Similarly, someone in his regular playgroup has a deck with rule 0 partners of Hans Eriksson and Saffi Eriksdotter. The point I'm trying to illustrate is that if players who aren't deeply knowledgeable of the lore can see the commanders as making flavorful sense, you should be allowed to play them as partners. I wish I could do the same for Doran, the Seige Tower and Phenax, God of Deception because big butts, but that's a more complicated argument that honestly doesn't hold water :p
Absolutely! Always be willing to come up with new ways to play! Even if you can't find a group that likes your ideas, sharing them with the world means that there's a good chance someone, somewhere, will manage to get a good group together that does!
A 3-stage Rakdos demon tribal with Rakdos the Defiler, Rakdos Lord of Riots, and finally Rakdos, the Showstopper would be an excellent themed tribal deck with this rule 0
"My joy is unbreakable."~~~This vibe is exactly why you are one of my absolute favorite creators/people. You bring such a light to the world that the world needs more of! You do you and don't let the world get you down.
I think these ideas are more easily executed with a core playgroup that really trusts each other. My playgroup has thrown out ideas of the "partner" pairing of Legolas and Gimli, which is perfectly reasonable for us. I have a Liliana, Heretical Healer deck that wants to have Griselbrand in the 99 with her other 3 demon masters. I volunteer to swap him out for Vilis as an option if people aren't okay with it.
Exactly. Gimmick games are for kitchen tables, where if the deck is too much or too messy you put it away and move on. Rules can’t replace the need to actually talk to people, and if tou can’t talk to people before the game you don’t really get to do gimmicks.
@@Tyke-Myson While many decks are commander centric, there are also decks that are functional without it and its purpose is just to sometimes help the deck. For example my sultai rat deck's commander is Damia and her only purposes are to draw me lots of cards and allowing me to run green and blue cards. Same with my Vilis mono-black pay-life deck; while my deck is higher on the power level curve than my other decks, Vilis' only goal is to draw me something like 30+ cards in a turn to dig for one of the combos in the deck. Also commanders with Eminence often don't ever need to be cast.
@reversalring3522 I for sure get that, I actually play Elesha Rats kek. It's just quite rare that I consistently have an equivocal mana play that is weighted better than whatever dood I have in the zone.
Speaking of timelines, Khans and Dragons of Tarkir. It could be cool to ”jump” between them, using the Khan and the Dragon of a colour combination one after the other.
Joey, you're the best. The energy, thought, and creativity you put into this format and its community is inspiring. And I love this idea! I've thought about building a Skeleton Ship/Pirate Ship deck that tells the story pirate crew that discovers a cursed treasure. Your video may be just the push I needed to start building it!
I wish I could share this video any time I come up with a silly homebrew idea for MTG, D&D, whatever it is, and my play group's first reaction is poking holes in the mechanics. Very well said, Joey.
Ob Nixilis in his timeliness! My family group have always used RZ. We've always made our own partner pairings, planeswalkers as commanders, monarch starts on the center of the table and we use silver bordered cards. We have always just whatevers fun as long as it gets the ok from everyone and we all thinks it's fun.
Come for the cool deck idea, stay for the existential crisis Seriously though this is making my Vorthos brain itch like crazy. I would 100% play against the Sauron evolution deck you mentioned even if I’m not the hugest LoTR fan. Also I love the Ravnica set so I might try and find a guild that would let me alternate guild leaders from it (probably Selesnya).
I love the idea of setting your own rules on what you can include in your deck to stick to a theme. I can't wait to complete my Aragorn the Uniter deck that is all LotR/the fellowship themed cards.
First of all this was an amazing video. I also love the idea. I just want you to know your creativity is awesome, please don’t stop doing what you’re doing.
Last time I played at an LGS i had an opponent that had a deck where they had multiple possible commanders and just started the game with them all shuffled in the deck and didn't know who their commander was until they drew one of the possibilities and put it in the command zone.
Joey, it's a fantastic idea and if you're with the right people who have all bought into this idea for playing Commander this way the Rule 0 chat regarding it will go smoothly.
My favorite rule 0 deck is kaalia of the vast with 30 cards for replacing double sided cards in the deck that just say creature, whenever i draw one i put it aside and draw a creature from the side deck of 90 angels, demons, and dragons that goes with the deck. It lets me run way more of the big splashy awesome creatures the deck is about, stay at 100 cards, and see different ones every time so the deck is still exciting every time 10 years after i built it
Thanks for making this video and taking the time to talk about some important topics that not only revolve around Magic but life in general! Appreciate you Joey! 🥳
Completely feel for Joey and that feeling. I am taking a break because of something like this. Love the videos and you are great! Keep up the great videos
17:30 My brother and I play commander fairly regularly, and the rule that his playgroup adopted is that you get a free mulligan, then if by the time you have reached a 6 card hand you still don't have a good spell/land balance of 3-4 lands, then you pull 3 basics out of the deck for your opening hand, shuffle, and then draw 4 cards. It's not a perfect system, because you can easily draw into more lands, but at least everyone knows that you aren't being completely screwed and it's not a bad faith issue of stacking the deck. Commander is most fun when everyone at the table has a chance to actually play.
For the record, I will accept any and all Rule Zero decks. I'm just here to have fun, let's add Planeschase too while we're at it. If the game isn't fun, why bother playing?
I love using rule 0 in my playgroup! We do unlimited mulligans. I have a landfall deck with 50 lands that once drew 3 opening hands without a single land. As long as people aren't mulliganing to always start with the perfect hand, going down in cards just puts you so far behind. I have a rule 0 deck! I have Vraska, Swarm's Eminence as a deathtouch tribal commander. There isn't a legendary creature in Golgari that cares about deathtouch, but Vraska gives a very minor boost and makes the strategy feel coherent. We allow all planeswalkers as commanders, cause we believe they should be legal commanders anyhow! We still allow Golos! One friend's most treasured deck was Golos. It's still strong, but no one in the group agreed on the ban in the first place, so we still allow it. We allow commanders to partner! If you have a fun strategy or theme, we allow you to just partner any legends. Of course this could be mega abusable, but we don't use it like that. For example, a friend has Gyome and Asmor as a Jund food tribal deck. His alternative was Korvold, so it was an easy choice. Ever since, as long as everyone agrees it's ok, we allow partners. I think most rule 0 just needs to be talked about with a playgroup. I think going against strangers you will always need to accept the rules as they are. I once went to a shop where the whole shop rule 0'd that commander tucking was still allowed, and I didn't know that until it happened to my commander. Needless to say I was very salty. Rule 0 needs to be open and honest between friends, and be upfront and accepting if someone doesn't agree with it.
I love this video, and i love this idea for what it is - an idea. Just something fun to do with your friends, doesnt need to be any more complicated than that. My friends and I are designing cards based on our DnD characters, and making commander decks out of them. Will they be broken? probably. We're doing it anyways for fun.
I designed some decks like these I themed them around Lorwyn and it’s world changing effects the decks I built were for Ashling,Wort,Sygg,and Rhys at the beginning of each turn that player would roll a planar die if the symbol came up all commanders would all flip to there dark or light side depending on what they were at the time in all zones it was quite a fun experience.
I LOVE this kind of Rule 0!! Great ideas to have fun and enjoy a more exploratory and creative way to play! (not to win more) Just don get to focus with the little rules and enjoy I have a lot of rule 0 decks, like: the 3 partner predators of ikoria (ukkima, yannick and Silvar), a 3 legen samurai deck, a yasharn and the red legend boar as psrtners for a bosr tribal deck, a prismatic bridge that flip any of 200 favorite creatures, partner and background commanders together,etc... The more you try, the funnier it becomes!!
DEAR LORD. the last thing i needed right now was a burst of inspiration to build a whole new deck around this exact idea!!! i love you guys, but also need to fear you guys lmao as for rule zero decks ive made, or intend to make and am currently crafting: - The Grand Calcutron: the deck doesnt do anything else silly or goofy, its just designed to play into the forced hand order for casting by allowing me to cycle out cards, discard them from any position with madness and/or to loot, foretelling, suspending. stuff that lets me get around hand order while also keeping a strategic order so that im not always having to bypass. i also use cards like bazaar trader where im drawing 2 and discarding 3 because my commander will refill my hand up to 5 at my end step so i barely have any real draw outside of it. the way having it out impacts my opponents ability to play, i took that advantage to allow myself to play less aggressive and played bodies that made more bodies when they die to make things more difficult to find solutions for as not even board wipes will do all that much to my constant progression. - Pinkie Pie: this is a deck where i run all of the good boros cards that care about the Party mechanic since its always full and every creature is counted towards the party which makes for interesting outcomes, but because Pinkie Pie creates treasure tokens whenever casting spells with a smile in the art, the part i prioritized more was that every card outside of the party focused cards (which ironically none have smiles in them lol) MUST have a smile. so i end up using some less favorable cards over better ones to stay on theme, or end up using specific prints of a card like Etali, Primal Storm cereal box edition from Secret Lair. cards that will make my opponents laugh and make it more of a game of "where's the smile in that one" if its not as blatantly obvious like a background character. but the smile had to be prominent and unmistakable once spotted. the following are ones im still in the planning stages for and havent fleshed out enough to elaborate too much on but i currently have two more rule zero decks im making: - Frankie Peanuts: my goal with this is to make the way the deck play out make it feel like im some kid whos looking for a friend. im going to ask calculated questions that allow me to evaluate what will be safe to do that turn and make decisions that reward those who arent working against me. meta questions that really evaluate language like "will you be interacting with my permanents this turn?" wording it that way so they think i mean some kind of instant speed removal, but surprise, now they can't block because blocking is an interaction. my creatures are a mixed bag of creatures that want to get through and creatures that want to be blocked for various reasons that can either end in a benefit for me and/or a detriment to them. simply forcing them to commit to whether or not they will block my creatures that turn opens up a very strong doorway with the variety of creatures im planning on running. - Champions of Archery: this isnt even a silver border card but an internal set card for the staff that was made that allows me to cast the adventure side to convert any legendary in my hand into a commander and puts it in the command zone and when finally played as a creature, it has a static ability that gives commanders i control +X power equal to the amount i control. its mono-red so my options for support and strategies is severely crippled, but im determined to find a way to make this viable in a way that i enjoy. i think this makes for a neat building challenge. im pretty sure ill just be running a lot of the low mana value legends and put in first/double strike effects with a light goad subtheme to give me enough time to even build up 4+ commanders. definitely going to try using those cards like backgrounds that will get ridiculous with 4+ commanders on the board lol. BUT NOW I NEED TO THINK OF A GROWTH COMMANDER i might legit just do an all the main doctors deck, including the fourteenth and fifteenth. i think the only viable way to have that work for my personal tastes if i rule zero to allow for whenever the doctor dies, he would get replaced by the next one and MTG mechanically regenerate lol so the doctor would hit the graveyard and return as the new one tapped. the doctors partner i think i would want to work similarly but instead make it a bit of a rule bend as well where each iteration of the doctor will only be allowed to be partnered up with a companion that they had in their run but are not limited to one. they can use any and all while that doctor is on the battlefield (and not before) they would each individually be cast as normal, all experience tax as normal, but the moment the doctor regenerates, if that doctor didnt have adventures with those companions, they get exiled and the command zone then populates with the next run of companions and so on. it would give the 99 a lot of room to breath to get around how awful many of the doctors and companions dont necessarily synergies with most of the others and let the 99 expand on a mishmash of cards that somewhat doesnt make this idea terrible lol. a project like this feels dauntingly ambitious; more so because it would be imperative to me that it can keep up with the average turn 9 deck, to strike a good balance between fun and viable. as for a less ambitious path to take on your idea, i would probably do some sort of "remember these guys? heres them now" two-tier growth ideas like Rasputin original and more recent card or Dakkon or Hazezon who wouldnt require too much mental work to make a 99 agree with both. the jump of how old vs how new would add an interesting dynamic
Kinda of on theme but also kind of different: my friends and I came up with a new variant of EDH that we could all play with (primarily since we all love the challenge of deckbuilding), but it's called *Reincarnation*. Essentially, you pick 3 commanders that don't have the partner text, they all have to be cast in ascending cmc order and they all have to fall within the same color combo. Once you cast your a commander, you can't cast the next one until your active one dies or get sacraficed or leaves the battle by an regular means. So, essentially, your commander dies and that allows you to reincarnate him as the next commander in line. Commander tax doesn't apply until you fully cycle through your three commanders and then the +2 is applied to all of them the second time each of them get cast. I build a life drain deck with my 3 being: Kambal > Obzedat > Astarion and one of my other friends build a standard Gruul stompy with three Radhas.
A great take on this Joey! You nailed it! My view: People don't have to take a game serious. Take it as it is: a game. Not life itself. Just chill with people for a good time. Go for a game by considering the fun-percentage and just give things a try. Didn't go as hoped? Chat about together and redo next time! People not matching ideas and perspectives? It's just that: not a match. Go for other people.
I love this idea Joey, you're an awesome person for standing up and dealing with hecklers to present your novel idea. I have a suggestion for a solution, instead of getting a free swap to the next "upgrade" of a character. The current version of the commander must be in play, and has the ability, "{T}, pay {2}: At the beginning of your next end step you may sacrifice this creature. If you do so, you may cast the next form of your commander from the command zone. If you choose not to cast the next form in this way, then you may cast it from the command zone on a later turn instead." I even think it would be reasonable to give it a discount of {2} in this way, because it enforces a requirement to protect the youngling version of the character when it's on the field, so you can't just sacrifice the first two or three forms to get to the optimal one for a ridiculous combo. I hope people are willing to embrace your idea for the novelty, and the casual cooperative atmosphere it could encourage at tables which are rapidly growing too overtly competitive for my taste.
I feel for you Joey, content creators finding all the trolls (and the genuinely curious that get lost in the chaos) is a constant battle. My groups favorite Rule 0 games have been playing Boss Monster (the one from cons that is normally for prize tickets), BUT with custom home-made versions based on fantasy villains. I made a Deathwing boss monster based on the Madness of Deathwing final encounter of the Dragon Soul raid from WoW. Others we have made include Overmind (Star Craft), Ruin (Mistborn), Sephiroth, Gilgamesh, Adramelech (SP?) (FF), and Gammoth (Monster Hunter). Its fun to go PvE every once in a while and we continually tune them after games if anything was too easy or too hard to deal with.
The two versions of Taigam from the C17 decks have been rattling in my brain since I finished watching this video. I love making creative decks like this even if my playgroup leans more into Cedh territory, but that is a separate issue.
Omg I love this idea! I'm a huge fan of thematic decks. Personally building an aragorn the uniter deck with the only creatures being LOTR characters that are in or assist the fellowship.
I'm tempted to try it with my Smeagol/Gollum EDH deck - I have almost all of the various Gollums in the maindeck with Smeagol on the CZ as it is. That deck is pretty much pure flavour with supporting cards from other sets just to reinforce the mechanics and make the flavourful interactions happen (and losing to damage from The One Ring while 1v1 with a Frodo/Sam deck after the other two players got knocked out was the most flavourful game ever lol)
I like the idea of shuffling you commanders and cast them in a random order. I'd make it to choose one for the deck's color identity and add the rule that you might pay mana of any color to cast cards from the command zone so you won't have problems to cast a commander that's outside of your deck's color identity.
Taking a moment to appreciate many things about this video: 1. Really cool deckbuilding idea! Definitely has my brewing brain going (not that it needs any help lol) 2. Joey's spot-on impression of the MTG community 3. The awesome editing skils on display in this video! Well done on a excellently crated video y'all
Jeska transforms onto Phage, but then gets melded with Akroma creating Karona before turning into Jeska once again. Maybe this would be a needed milestone? Have Phage and Akroma both in the battlefield in order to cast Karona? So flavorful! Love the idea! Thanks Joey!
I love this idea! I think its a great way to introduce rule 0 to the table and see what others ideas we can come up with. Commander was made to be fun and I think this idea only adds to that! Thanks for sharing. 😊
Joey's Villain arc continues on to the end of time. Love the content. I would love it if someone highlights othe Jankey stuff like this. When the Companions first came out, I loved using the restriction as my deck building restriction. Or building a 100% legendary creature Jodah deck.
I like the idea of a "level up" theme. I did something similar with a 60 card Nicol Bolas deck. I put every version of him I owned in it. It's slow, yet fun to play. Kept it on theme as best I could. I've been debating turning it into a Commander deck.
This started as a concept that I’ve tinkered with before. It ended with an uncomfortably accurate rendition of how invasive thoughts interact with me. Thanks for the quality content, Joey?
Good idea, and I appreciate the consideration of accounting for the minutia for the rest of us. Though i don't see myself engaging with the idea. I tried a rule 0 with Dream Trawler as commander. Just a regular azorius flyers thing and i got both extremes of responses. After the games i understood both perspectives and just decided i didn't want to continue.
I think this is a neat idea! I have a Rule 0 deck that has soared to being my favorite deck of all. It's my Fluros and Tana deck that while having a solid land base and being surprisingly synergistic, also has a number of limitations. First off, it's a Keruga companion deck so no low-cost cards. Secondly, every creature in the deck has to have either a power or toughness of 4 and every planeswalker has to have a loyalty of 4. Lastly, the fact is that the deck is built largely around Fluros's triggered ability which isn't that great of a pay-off (when I cast a spell with power. toughness, or loyalty of 4, I get to turn an artifact or creature into a 4/4 artifact creature until end of turn).
I love this. It's important to remember that EDH wouldn't even exist if people weren't willing to modify the game rules in a way that seems fun to them! In the questions section, you actually didn't hit the one I was thinking: what happens after you've rotated through all your commanders? For Braids it makes sense to continue cycling, but for Omnath or Gandolf the story is linear. Here's how I'd try running it: 0) A "commander lineage" refers to all of the commanders in a sequence. The "progenitor commander" is the first commander in a lineage. Cards in a lineage are collectively referred to as "lineage commanders". The current face up lineage commander in the command zone is referred to as the "progeny commander" 1) The order of your commander lineage must be revealed before the game begins. This is public information and cannot be changed once the game has started 2) Basic lands tap for any color mana among permanents you control OR in the color identity of the progeny commander 3) The progeny commander must be cast for its mana cost by exiling the current lineage commander from the battlefield face-down 4) Commander damage is shared by all commanders in a lineage 5) If a commander on the field is removed from the field, standard commander rules apply (including command tax). Command tax is not carried throughout the lineage There are issues here. This doesn't allow for cycling commanders like Braids. Commander piles could be categorized (Lineage, Cycle, etc) with specific rules and disclosures for each. Another interesting idea is to have the lineage mutate, so you're not locking yourself out of old gameplans as the game progresses. This can be further expanded by making it a new format rather than a modification of EDH: to avoid situations like Gandolf where different color identities or gameplans exist, the deck could be separated into X piles (1 for each commander) and each time a new commander is cast you merge that pile into the base deck. This would help segregate things, but raises a question: What happens if you draw through your chunk before merging to the next one? Amongst many others.
This is a super interesting idea. I love Rule 0 shenanigans, to the point I actually ended up creating multiple proxied custom decks for my one playgroup, like full on custom cards made with MTG Set Editor. They're purposefully underpowered (with maybe one or two high power sorcery cards just to keep it at least somewhat on par with stuff like Dockside...) but it allows for some SUPER creative stuff and incredible flavor. For example one deck is essentially just a mash up of gaming/tv tropes where the commander's front side is the original Kamigawa transform cards that had an upside down half, and then flips to transform into a final form (poking fun at the 3 stage boss fight trope). That final form is INCREDIBLY powerful, but it takes a lot of work to get there without it getting removed (and having to start all over again). The other deck was more of a theme deck around the Touhou franchise where all the cards were designed around the canonical abilities of each character, synergy be damned. The partner commanders actually ended up creating a really fun and interesting dynamic too, since one was basically a global chaos warp on a stick where everyone picks something they control to warp, and the other draws cards when you shuffle your library. It almost played like a mish mash of odd quirky mechanics plus a group hug commander. Hell, one card even has players draw from bottom unless they pay 2 mana (the character's ability in cannon is the ability to essentially 'reverse' anything). While most of the cards aren't exactly 'strong' they do turn some heads in terms of just how different the mechanics are and how they change up the game in a fun and interesting way. My long winded rant aside though, it really is a shame there's so much stigma around Rule 0 at times, especially with things that generally go against the normal rules of the game. Bending and tweaking the rules within reason while keeping the power level low for the sake of more interesting an engaging games can really create a unique and memorable experience.
I love the idea !!! I actually have all five Omnaths in my five color deck… like you said, it’s not too synergistic with the mono green one but whatever I love the flavor. If we’re not playing this game to have fun and a good time and express ourselves what are we really doing it for ?
I've been brewing a 5c omnath deck for a while, trying to figure out how to make it unique. I think this is it! I'm not taking Joey's list, but it is inspiring.
Also... I think it was Tolarian Community College's "The Professor" or maybe it was y'all who say "The solution to arguing Magic on twitter is to go play magic" And also "The game is fundementally broken, it only works when we all pretend it works"
Love this. I'm always tinkering with a story deck I have. It has recently become an archenemy vs 3 commander deck build. More of a multi phase boss battle than anything: sub decks for each phase, custom schemes and modified planes to offer a balanced battle for any group. Cute little story elements to create tension along the way. Building it starting to get my butt kicked and working it up towards fair but exciting gameplay.
I love ideas for alternate ways to play, they are always interesting to consider. I've been trying to figure out if we can add sideboards to Commander lately...
The impression I've gotten is that the reason they aren't part of the format is for things such as Legion Angel and Wish effects, but an unofficial (and with unlimited size) sideboard for the purposes of revising and experimenting with the deck is always a good idea. It's easier to revise when you have all the cards you have considered for it right at your fingertips.
@@1notdeadfred My thought was that players could run a 10-15 card sideboard, and at the beginning of the game everyone would reveal their commanders, and then players could sideboard before the game begins. On one hand, this allows players to have more answers to certain strategies, as well as the ability to play Wish cards in a legal way, and on the other hand it means that the graveyard decks and the like run into much more hate. I haven't tried it out, but I think it could be interesting.
Better call it Home Rules. They supposedly exist to enhance the game experience. I play with a pod where infinite combos are a no no! Before Commander we used to play a multiplayer version with sets of 4 in 60 card decks. Basic one on one MTG rules with a twist. But thanks for focusing on the fun. You would fit in our table just fine
I love this idea!!!...let's make this a new format..this would increase build flavor and have players not worry so much about power levels and focus on the simpler fun side of it
It'd be fun to do this with slivers and cycle through the hive's leaders canonically. The first sliver > sliver Queen > sliver Overlord > sliver hivelord > sliver legion > sliver gravemother (not 100% on the order of the last 3)
I have a rule 0 deck that's "it came from planet glurg" which is just a bunch of creatures that ramp you, until you cast your stupid monster of a commander, clone 4 or 5 things and try to win with that. I have Lonis, cryptic zoologist as a backup commander since it also is a simic commander based on playing lots of snowballing creatures and stealing your opponents stuff.
The new March of the Machine team-up cards would be cool with this too, e.g a grixis deck with Heartless Hidetsugu + Hidetsugu, Devouring Chaos + Kairi, the Swirling Sky + Hidetsugu and Kairi
Hey Joey! I study game design and have been playing tcg since I'm 8years old (And if I haven't played a tcg, I try to learn the rules). Card games are one of my special interests and I absolutely adore when people try things out with existing frameworks (Heck, that's kind of how EDH came to be). I myself enjoy creating cards with creatures from my fantasy universe (other special interest of mine) by trying to create cohesive new keywords and all. I tried Force of Will at some point and one thing I enjoyed was how the "mana" came from a side-deck of 'stones' you draw and add to your play area by exhausting your "Commander". I think it kind of streamlines the deck (and make higher cost commanders more interesting) and I always wondered how this would work in EDH. This video really makes me want to tinker a few things to see how it could go. I find it really unfortunate that people feel so strongly about the identity of something that they would try to shut you down when all you're doing is exploring the fun you could have. Thank you for this video, I wish more people would try to openly brainstorm like this and bring fresh ideas to the table!
You reading the comments is the most frustrating part of commander! 😂😂 I don't envy you. You're a stronger person than I am for having patience for people. But I am totally inspired to make 2 decks meant for a 1v1 with Urza vs. Mishra and call it The Brother's War!
This is a really cool idea! Really the main rule zero deck that I would like to make is an "Every Mutate Creature Ever" deck led by Surgeon General Commander. That card is just straight up the best commander you could have for that kind of deck, and it doesn't do anything on its own that would warrant it to be a non-legal card. There are not many creatures that would make a decent commander for this kind of deck (mostly just Esika and Jegantha, and neither of those provide the card advantage that Surgeon provides...)
As someone that has built several decks around my favorite characters (Olivia Voldaren, Teysa Karlov, Gisa, Liliana) I Really like this idea a lot. I've always just pit them in the 99 even if they don't work with the rest of the deck very well because I like the characters and I want to use them all. This also solves the weirdness of having several of the same character on the field at the same time. I would love for there to be some community concensus on how this could become a format variant like oathbreaker or something. I also like using the different arts each time I cast my commander because I can never choose just one
I have a janky rule 0 deck, Alela, Artful Provocateur, a hand full of magecraft/prowess/similar effects, 30 copies of Didn't Say Please, a pile of mana rocks and just basics. its super fun to play both just as is and with the "use your manners" clause as we've dubbed it. it gets really silly when everyone is saying "please don't counter/do counter that". I for this deck though I do have 30 replacement counters incase the meme is a no go. generally players are on board with a meh 3cmc counter instead of a pile of better counters from 1 to 4 cmc
I thought of this exact idea except much more broken treating them as partners because I thought it would be fun to have Akroma, Angels of Wrath and Fury as commanders. The whole conversation surrounding these sorts of special formats is very hard. I personally wouldn't want to play these formats myself, but other people who do want to do that should do that!
Congratulations, you ran into the exact same issues as the commander format as a whole. Commander is a format where you change some fundamental rules of magic in ways that can be obviously abused and unbalances the game, and raises many other questions. Yet that gets solved socially by people talking and ensuring they want the same fun and experiences. You ran into a microcosm of the commander format within its rule zero, and the same solutions apply: don't be a jerk, and talk with people. And you might have learned a bit about the Rules Committee's job along the way!
Until you Rule Zero every Chandra Planeswalker in ascending Mana Value as your stack of 20-ish commanders. 😂
Please do that lol
Chandra tribal is so fun
You'd have to get them to also agree to let you have Planeswalkers as commanders. Chandra Tribal is usually led by her flip-walker card which is a legendary creature.
I recently built a chandra deck... I could do this
Once played against someone who wanted to Rule Zero their Edgar Markov deck as an Edgar, Charmed Groom and Olivia, Crimson Bride partner with deck. It ended up being flavorful and not as oppressive as regular Edgar Markov.
The fact they don't have partner is a shame
Yeah my playgroup was thinking of doing a rule zero for any two commanders can partner with each other and I think that sounds super fun, potentially incredibly busted but very fun nonetheless. My first thoughts were Prosper with Faldorn and Katilda with Raggadragga
I had this deck constructed for a while. It was wedding themed and tried to win with Happily Ever After by stealing my opponent's permanents. I could basically only win if someone else was playing green and blue for me at the table!
I'm glad you mentioned this- my brother has a scarab god deck that he prefers to run as rule 0 partner commanders Gisa and Geralf (I know Visionary Stitcher is the Geralf, I don't remember which Gisa) when the play group is on board with it. Similarly, someone in his regular playgroup has a deck with rule 0 partners of Hans Eriksson and Saffi Eriksdotter.
The point I'm trying to illustrate is that if players who aren't deeply knowledgeable of the lore can see the commanders as making flavorful sense, you should be allowed to play them as partners.
I wish I could do the same for Doran, the Seige Tower and Phenax, God of Deception because big butts, but that's a more complicated argument that honestly doesn't hold water :p
Strong applause for your perseverance. Continue being great Joey
Absolutely! Always be willing to come up with new ways to play! Even if you can't find a group that likes your ideas, sharing them with the world means that there's a good chance someone, somewhere, will manage to get a good group together that does!
A 3-stage Rakdos demon tribal with Rakdos the Defiler, Rakdos Lord of Riots, and finally Rakdos, the Showstopper would be an excellent themed tribal deck with this rule 0
"My joy is unbreakable."~~~This vibe is exactly why you are one of my absolute favorite creators/people. You bring such a light to the world that the world needs more of! You do you and don't let the world get you down.
I think these ideas are more easily executed with a core playgroup that really trusts each other. My playgroup has thrown out ideas of the "partner" pairing of Legolas and Gimli, which is perfectly reasonable for us. I have a Liliana, Heretical Healer deck that wants to have Griselbrand in the 99 with her other 3 demon masters. I volunteer to swap him out for Vilis as an option if people aren't okay with it.
Exactly. Gimmick games are for kitchen tables, where if the deck is too much or too messy you put it away and move on. Rules can’t replace the need to actually talk to people, and if tou can’t talk to people before the game you don’t really get to do gimmicks.
Part 2 is totally accurate of the mtg community.
The end of it is what I feel when I suggest a new idea. 😳
This is the joy and terror of game design. Dealing with hordes of people can be overwhelming.
Thanks for trying to create something.
I like the idea of having to flippity floopity between Braids and Braids, that sounds super fun. 😊
I think that in practice you won't get to cast it too many times. Hell, there's games when you don't even cast your commnder the whole game.
I can't think of a game where I outright haven't cast my commander, but I guess there's a world where it could happen?
@@Tyke-Myson While many decks are commander centric, there are also decks that are functional without it and its purpose is just to sometimes help the deck. For example my sultai rat deck's commander is Damia and her only purposes are to draw me lots of cards and allowing me to run green and blue cards. Same with my Vilis mono-black pay-life deck; while my deck is higher on the power level curve than my other decks, Vilis' only goal is to draw me something like 30+ cards in a turn to dig for one of the combos in the deck. Also commanders with Eminence often don't ever need to be cast.
@reversalring3522 I for sure get that, I actually play Elesha Rats kek. It's just quite rare that I consistently have an equivocal mana play that is weighted better than whatever dood I have in the zone.
@@Tyke-Myson ohhh, I love the idea of Alesha as a rat commander. My own Alesha deck is more hatebear focused.
Speaking of timelines, Khans and Dragons of Tarkir. It could be cool to ”jump” between them, using the Khan and the Dragon of a colour combination one after the other.
Joey, you're the best. The energy, thought, and creativity you put into this format and its community is inspiring. And I love this idea! I've thought about building a Skeleton Ship/Pirate Ship deck that tells the story pirate crew that discovers a cursed treasure. Your video may be just the push I needed to start building it!
I wish I could share this video any time I come up with a silly homebrew idea for MTG, D&D, whatever it is, and my play group's first reaction is poking holes in the mechanics. Very well said, Joey.
Ob Nixilis in his timeliness! My family group have always used RZ. We've always made our own partner pairings, planeswalkers as commanders, monarch starts on the center of the table and we use silver bordered cards. We have always just whatevers fun as long as it gets the ok from everyone and we all thinks it's fun.
Come for the cool deck idea, stay for the existential crisis
Seriously though this is making my Vorthos brain itch like crazy. I would 100% play against the Sauron evolution deck you mentioned even if I’m not the hugest LoTR fan. Also I love the Ravnica set so I might try and find a guild that would let me alternate guild leaders from it (probably Selesnya).
I love the idea of setting your own rules on what you can include in your deck to stick to a theme. I can't wait to complete my Aragorn the Uniter deck that is all LotR/the fellowship themed cards.
First of all this was an amazing video. I also love the idea. I just want you to know your creativity is awesome, please don’t stop doing what you’re doing.
I saw the Baba Lasagne episode and Loved the idea. This is a great evolution of that. Thanks for the great content
You really come through this all as as an honest and fantastic creator. Hope to see your deck in a game play video soon.
I actually have a Kodamas deck! I just roll a die before every game to decide which one is the commander
Last time I played at an LGS i had an opponent that had a deck where they had multiple possible commanders and just started the game with them all shuffled in the deck and didn't know who their commander was until they drew one of the possibilities and put it in the command zone.
Joey, it's a fantastic idea and if you're with the right people who have all bought into this idea for playing Commander this way the Rule 0 chat regarding it will go smoothly.
My favorite rule 0 deck is kaalia of the vast with 30 cards for replacing double sided cards in the deck that just say creature, whenever i draw one i put it aside and draw a creature from the side deck of 90 angels, demons, and dragons that goes with the deck. It lets me run way more of the big splashy awesome creatures the deck is about, stay at 100 cards, and see different ones every time so the deck is still exciting every time 10 years after i built it
Reef worm commander sounds fun
I love the idea. I support rule zero.
Mostly these work with an established play group.
I really needed that bit at the end Joey, love ya!
Thanks for making this video and taking the time to talk about some important topics that not only revolve around Magic but life in general! Appreciate you Joey! 🥳
Completely feel for Joey and that feeling. I am taking a break because of something like this. Love the videos and you are great! Keep up the great videos
17:30 My brother and I play commander fairly regularly, and the rule that his playgroup adopted is that you get a free mulligan, then if by the time you have reached a 6 card hand you still don't have a good spell/land balance of 3-4 lands, then you pull 3 basics out of the deck for your opening hand, shuffle, and then draw 4 cards. It's not a perfect system, because you can easily draw into more lands, but at least everyone knows that you aren't being completely screwed and it's not a bad faith issue of stacking the deck. Commander is most fun when everyone at the table has a chance to actually play.
For the record, I will accept any and all Rule Zero decks. I'm just here to have fun, let's add Planeschase too while we're at it. If the game isn't fun, why bother playing?
I did this with Odric, since white blink/keywords works pretty well with all three for a boros aggro deck.
Your conclusion brings me back to a quote that has served me well: "your happiness should not depend on other people"
Amazing, simply amazing, Joey. Keep the amazing ideas coming.
Love everything about this. You go, Joey!
I love using rule 0 in my playgroup!
We do unlimited mulligans. I have a landfall deck with 50 lands that once drew 3 opening hands without a single land. As long as people aren't mulliganing to always start with the perfect hand, going down in cards just puts you so far behind.
I have a rule 0 deck! I have Vraska, Swarm's Eminence as a deathtouch tribal commander. There isn't a legendary creature in Golgari that cares about deathtouch, but Vraska gives a very minor boost and makes the strategy feel coherent. We allow all planeswalkers as commanders, cause we believe they should be legal commanders anyhow!
We still allow Golos! One friend's most treasured deck was Golos. It's still strong, but no one in the group agreed on the ban in the first place, so we still allow it.
We allow commanders to partner! If you have a fun strategy or theme, we allow you to just partner any legends. Of course this could be mega abusable, but we don't use it like that. For example, a friend has Gyome and Asmor as a Jund food tribal deck. His alternative was Korvold, so it was an easy choice. Ever since, as long as everyone agrees it's ok, we allow partners.
I think most rule 0 just needs to be talked about with a playgroup. I think going against strangers you will always need to accept the rules as they are. I once went to a shop where the whole shop rule 0'd that commander tucking was still allowed, and I didn't know that until it happened to my commander. Needless to say I was very salty. Rule 0 needs to be open and honest between friends, and be upfront and accepting if someone doesn't agree with it.
What's commander tucking?
I love this video, and i love this idea for what it is - an idea. Just something fun to do with your friends, doesnt need to be any more complicated than that. My friends and I are designing cards based on our DnD characters, and making commander decks out of them. Will they be broken? probably. We're doing it anyways for fun.
I designed some decks like these I themed them around Lorwyn and it’s world changing effects the decks I built were for Ashling,Wort,Sygg,and Rhys at the beginning of each turn that player would roll a planar die if the symbol came up all commanders would all flip to there dark or light side depending on what they were at the time in all zones it was quite a fun experience.
Nice!
I LOVE this kind of Rule 0!! Great ideas to have fun and enjoy a more exploratory and creative way to play! (not to win more)
Just don get to focus with the little rules and enjoy
I have a lot of rule 0 decks, like: the 3 partner predators of ikoria (ukkima, yannick and Silvar), a 3 legen samurai deck, a yasharn and the red legend boar as psrtners for a bosr tribal deck, a prismatic bridge that flip any of 200 favorite creatures, partner and background commanders together,etc... The more you try, the funnier it becomes!!
I’m sharing this video with my play group and if there is interest I’m gonna push for this idea.
DEAR LORD. the last thing i needed right now was a burst of inspiration to build a whole new deck around this exact idea!!! i love you guys, but also need to fear you guys lmao
as for rule zero decks ive made, or intend to make and am currently crafting:
- The Grand Calcutron: the deck doesnt do anything else silly or goofy, its just designed to play into the forced hand order for casting by allowing me to cycle out cards, discard them from any position with madness and/or to loot, foretelling, suspending. stuff that lets me get around hand order while also keeping a strategic order so that im not always having to bypass. i also use cards like bazaar trader where im drawing 2 and discarding 3 because my commander will refill my hand up to 5 at my end step so i barely have any real draw outside of it. the way having it out impacts my opponents ability to play, i took that advantage to allow myself to play less aggressive and played bodies that made more bodies when they die to make things more difficult to find solutions for as not even board wipes will do all that much to my constant progression.
- Pinkie Pie: this is a deck where i run all of the good boros cards that care about the Party mechanic since its always full and every creature is counted towards the party which makes for interesting outcomes, but because Pinkie Pie creates treasure tokens whenever casting spells with a smile in the art, the part i prioritized more was that every card outside of the party focused cards (which ironically none have smiles in them lol) MUST have a smile. so i end up using some less favorable cards over better ones to stay on theme, or end up using specific prints of a card like Etali, Primal Storm cereal box edition from Secret Lair. cards that will make my opponents laugh and make it more of a game of "where's the smile in that one" if its not as blatantly obvious like a background character. but the smile had to be prominent and unmistakable once spotted.
the following are ones im still in the planning stages for and havent fleshed out enough to elaborate too much on but i currently have two more rule zero decks im making:
- Frankie Peanuts: my goal with this is to make the way the deck play out make it feel like im some kid whos looking for a friend. im going to ask calculated questions that allow me to evaluate what will be safe to do that turn and make decisions that reward those who arent working against me. meta questions that really evaluate language like "will you be interacting with my permanents this turn?" wording it that way so they think i mean some kind of instant speed removal, but surprise, now they can't block because blocking is an interaction. my creatures are a mixed bag of creatures that want to get through and creatures that want to be blocked for various reasons that can either end in a benefit for me and/or a detriment to them. simply forcing them to commit to whether or not they will block my creatures that turn opens up a very strong doorway with the variety of creatures im planning on running.
- Champions of Archery: this isnt even a silver border card but an internal set card for the staff that was made that allows me to cast the adventure side to convert any legendary in my hand into a commander and puts it in the command zone and when finally played as a creature, it has a static ability that gives commanders i control +X power equal to the amount i control. its mono-red so my options for support and strategies is severely crippled, but im determined to find a way to make this viable in a way that i enjoy. i think this makes for a neat building challenge. im pretty sure ill just be running a lot of the low mana value legends and put in first/double strike effects with a light goad subtheme to give me enough time to even build up 4+ commanders. definitely going to try using those cards like backgrounds that will get ridiculous with 4+ commanders on the board lol.
BUT NOW I NEED TO THINK OF A GROWTH COMMANDER
i might legit just do an all the main doctors deck, including the fourteenth and fifteenth. i think the only viable way to have that work for my personal tastes if i rule zero to allow for whenever the doctor dies, he would get replaced by the next one and MTG mechanically regenerate lol so the doctor would hit the graveyard and return as the new one tapped. the doctors partner i think i would want to work similarly but instead make it a bit of a rule bend as well where each iteration of the doctor will only be allowed to be partnered up with a companion that they had in their run but are not limited to one. they can use any and all while that doctor is on the battlefield (and not before) they would each individually be cast as normal, all experience tax as normal, but the moment the doctor regenerates, if that doctor didnt have adventures with those companions, they get exiled and the command zone then populates with the next run of companions and so on. it would give the 99 a lot of room to breath to get around how awful many of the doctors and companions dont necessarily synergies with most of the others and let the 99 expand on a mishmash of cards that somewhat doesnt make this idea terrible lol. a project like this feels dauntingly ambitious; more so because it would be imperative to me that it can keep up with the average turn 9 deck, to strike a good balance between fun and viable.
as for a less ambitious path to take on your idea, i would probably do some sort of "remember these guys? heres them now" two-tier growth ideas like Rasputin original and more recent card or Dakkon or Hazezon who wouldnt require too much mental work to make a 99 agree with both. the jump of how old vs how new would add an interesting dynamic
Kinda of on theme but also kind of different: my friends and I came up with a new variant of EDH that we could all play with (primarily since we all love the challenge of deckbuilding), but it's called *Reincarnation*.
Essentially, you pick 3 commanders that don't have the partner text, they all have to be cast in ascending cmc order and they all have to fall within the same color combo. Once you cast your a commander, you can't cast the next one until your active one dies or get sacraficed or leaves the battle by an regular means. So, essentially, your commander dies and that allows you to reincarnate him as the next commander in line. Commander tax doesn't apply until you fully cycle through your three commanders and then the +2 is applied to all of them the second time each of them get cast.
I build a life drain deck with my 3 being: Kambal > Obzedat > Astarion and one of my other friends build a standard Gruul stompy with three Radhas.
A great take on this Joey! You nailed it!
My view:
People don't have to take a game serious. Take it as it is: a game. Not life itself.
Just chill with people for a good time. Go for a game by considering the fun-percentage and just give things a try.
Didn't go as hoped? Chat about together and redo next time!
People not matching ideas and perspectives? It's just that: not a match. Go for other people.
I love this idea Joey, you're an awesome person for standing up and dealing with hecklers to present your novel idea. I have a suggestion for a solution, instead of getting a free swap to the next "upgrade" of a character. The current version of the commander must be in play, and has the ability, "{T}, pay {2}: At the beginning of your next end step you may sacrifice this creature. If you do so, you may cast the next form of your commander from the command zone. If you choose not to cast the next form in this way, then you may cast it from the command zone on a later turn instead." I even think it would be reasonable to give it a discount of {2} in this way, because it enforces a requirement to protect the youngling version of the character when it's on the field, so you can't just sacrifice the first two or three forms to get to the optimal one for a ridiculous combo. I hope people are willing to embrace your idea for the novelty, and the casual cooperative atmosphere it could encourage at tables which are rapidly growing too overtly competitive for my taste.
This seems like a really cool idea joey!
I feel for you Joey, content creators finding all the trolls (and the genuinely curious that get lost in the chaos) is a constant battle.
My groups favorite Rule 0 games have been playing Boss Monster (the one from cons that is normally for prize tickets), BUT with custom home-made versions based on fantasy villains. I made a Deathwing boss monster based on the Madness of Deathwing final encounter of the Dragon Soul raid from WoW. Others we have made include Overmind (Star Craft), Ruin (Mistborn), Sephiroth, Gilgamesh, Adramelech (SP?) (FF), and Gammoth (Monster Hunter). Its fun to go PvE every once in a while and we continually tune them after games if anything was too easy or too hard to deal with.
The two versions of Taigam from the C17 decks have been rattling in my brain since I finished watching this video. I love making creative decks like this even if my playgroup leans more into Cedh territory, but that is a separate issue.
Love this idea! I want to try level-up with Rona or Jekyll/Hyde with the Etalis
I love the idea Joey! I'm a fan of the Sauron idea and you better believe im gonna build it ❤
Love it. Thanks for the fun idea and will present it to my play group. I'm sure they will love the idea as well.
I think this is the best idea I have heard about "modifying" EDH ever. A lot better than Oathbreaker, tbh.
Omg I love this idea! I'm a huge fan of thematic decks. Personally building an aragorn the uniter deck with the only creatures being LOTR characters that are in or assist the fellowship.
I'm tempted to try it with my Smeagol/Gollum EDH deck - I have almost all of the various Gollums in the maindeck with Smeagol on the CZ as it is. That deck is pretty much pure flavour with supporting cards from other sets just to reinforce the mechanics and make the flavourful interactions happen (and losing to damage from The One Ring while 1v1 with a Frodo/Sam deck after the other two players got knocked out was the most flavourful game ever lol)
I have a rule zero the dawn bringer cycle deck, but when I play the commander roll a die to see which one I get to cast
I like the idea of shuffling you commanders and cast them in a random order. I'd make it to choose one for the deck's color identity and add the rule that you might pay mana of any color to cast cards from the command zone so you won't have problems to cast a commander that's outside of your deck's color identity.
Taking a moment to appreciate many things about this video:
1. Really cool deckbuilding idea! Definitely has my brewing brain going (not that it needs any help lol)
2. Joey's spot-on impression of the MTG community
3. The awesome editing skils on display in this video! Well done on a excellently crated video y'all
Jeska transforms onto Phage, but then gets melded with Akroma creating Karona before turning into Jeska once again. Maybe this would be a needed milestone? Have Phage and Akroma both in the battlefield in order to cast Karona?
So flavorful! Love the idea! Thanks Joey!
I love this idea! I think its a great way to introduce rule 0 to the table and see what others ideas we can come up with. Commander was made to be fun and I think this idea only adds to that! Thanks for sharing. 😊
I completely agree, this is a game. Have fun with it!!
Joey's Villain arc continues on to the end of time. Love the content. I would love it if someone highlights othe Jankey stuff like this. When the Companions first came out, I loved using the restriction as my deck building restriction. Or building a 100% legendary creature Jodah deck.
For Kodama, you could bring a compass and see which way you are facing to decide which one you play.
I like the idea of a "level up" theme. I did something similar with a 60 card Nicol Bolas deck. I put every version of him I owned in it. It's slow, yet fun to play. Kept it on theme as best I could. I've been debating turning it into a Commander deck.
Joey, I think it is such a cool idea. I really want to Make a rule zero deck for a long time and you really inspired me. thank you so much!!!
This started as a concept that I’ve tinkered with before. It ended with an uncomfortably accurate rendition of how invasive thoughts interact with me.
Thanks for the quality content, Joey?
Good idea, and I appreciate the consideration of accounting for the minutia for the rest of us. Though i don't see myself engaging with the idea.
I tried a rule 0 with Dream Trawler as commander. Just a regular azorius flyers thing and i got both extremes of responses. After the games i understood both perspectives and just decided i didn't want to continue.
My playgroup has allowed a rule zero partner pairing between young Urza and young Mishra. The artwork is even connected on the 2 cards!
"Hey I have an idea.."
That was your first mistake.
kidding, this is a cute idea and I immediately thought of how wild Ezuri elves would be.
This is a cool idea! Thanks Joey!
The don’t mull down to so many fewer cards is one of my favorite positive moments. Sometimes your draws suck and we want a good game.
I think this is a neat idea! I have a Rule 0 deck that has soared to being my favorite deck of all. It's my Fluros and Tana deck that while having a solid land base and being surprisingly synergistic, also has a number of limitations. First off, it's a Keruga companion deck so no low-cost cards. Secondly, every creature in the deck has to have either a power or toughness of 4 and every planeswalker has to have a loyalty of 4. Lastly, the fact is that the deck is built largely around Fluros's triggered ability which isn't that great of a pay-off (when I cast a spell with power. toughness, or loyalty of 4, I get to turn an artifact or creature into a 4/4 artifact creature until end of turn).
I love this. It's important to remember that EDH wouldn't even exist if people weren't willing to modify the game rules in a way that seems fun to them!
In the questions section, you actually didn't hit the one I was thinking: what happens after you've rotated through all your commanders? For Braids it makes sense to continue cycling, but for Omnath or Gandolf the story is linear.
Here's how I'd try running it:
0) A "commander lineage" refers to all of the commanders in a sequence. The "progenitor commander" is the first commander in a lineage. Cards in a lineage are collectively referred to as "lineage commanders". The current face up lineage commander in the command zone is referred to as the "progeny commander"
1) The order of your commander lineage must be revealed before the game begins. This is public information and cannot be changed once the game has started
2) Basic lands tap for any color mana among permanents you control OR in the color identity of the progeny commander
3) The progeny commander must be cast for its mana cost by exiling the current lineage commander from the battlefield face-down
4) Commander damage is shared by all commanders in a lineage
5) If a commander on the field is removed from the field, standard commander rules apply (including command tax). Command tax is not carried throughout the lineage
There are issues here. This doesn't allow for cycling commanders like Braids. Commander piles could be categorized (Lineage, Cycle, etc) with specific rules and disclosures for each. Another interesting idea is to have the lineage mutate, so you're not locking yourself out of old gameplans as the game progresses.
This can be further expanded by making it a new format rather than a modification of EDH: to avoid situations like Gandolf where different color identities or gameplans exist, the deck could be separated into X piles (1 for each commander) and each time a new commander is cast you merge that pile into the base deck. This would help segregate things, but raises a question: What happens if you draw through your chunk before merging to the next one? Amongst many others.
Oh it is a cute idea. I do like it. Well worth thinking about and talking about. :D
This is a super interesting idea. I love Rule 0 shenanigans, to the point I actually ended up creating multiple proxied custom decks for my one playgroup, like full on custom cards made with MTG Set Editor. They're purposefully underpowered (with maybe one or two high power sorcery cards just to keep it at least somewhat on par with stuff like Dockside...) but it allows for some SUPER creative stuff and incredible flavor. For example one deck is essentially just a mash up of gaming/tv tropes where the commander's front side is the original Kamigawa transform cards that had an upside down half, and then flips to transform into a final form (poking fun at the 3 stage boss fight trope). That final form is INCREDIBLY powerful, but it takes a lot of work to get there without it getting removed (and having to start all over again). The other deck was more of a theme deck around the Touhou franchise where all the cards were designed around the canonical abilities of each character, synergy be damned. The partner commanders actually ended up creating a really fun and interesting dynamic too, since one was basically a global chaos warp on a stick where everyone picks something they control to warp, and the other draws cards when you shuffle your library. It almost played like a mish mash of odd quirky mechanics plus a group hug commander. Hell, one card even has players draw from bottom unless they pay 2 mana (the character's ability in cannon is the ability to essentially 'reverse' anything). While most of the cards aren't exactly 'strong' they do turn some heads in terms of just how different the mechanics are and how they change up the game in a fun and interesting way.
My long winded rant aside though, it really is a shame there's so much stigma around Rule 0 at times, especially with things that generally go against the normal rules of the game. Bending and tweaking the rules within reason while keeping the power level low for the sake of more interesting an engaging games can really create a unique and memorable experience.
I love the idea !!! I actually have all five Omnaths in my five color deck… like you said, it’s not too synergistic with the mono green one but whatever I love the flavor.
If we’re not playing this game to have fun and a good time and express ourselves what are we really doing it for ?
I played against someone with two Braids deck, one blue and one black. This is a great idea!
I've been brewing a 5c omnath deck for a while, trying to figure out how to make it unique. I think this is it! I'm not taking Joey's list, but it is inspiring.
Never thought about this.
Love omnath but think he is too strong often. But this way he would be fun and awesome
Also... I think it was Tolarian Community College's "The Professor" or maybe it was y'all who say
"The solution to arguing Magic on twitter is to go play magic"
And also
"The game is fundementally broken, it only works when we all pretend it works"
Love this. I'm always tinkering with a story deck I have. It has recently become an archenemy vs 3 commander deck build. More of a multi phase boss battle than anything: sub decks for each phase, custom schemes and modified planes to offer a balanced battle for any group. Cute little story elements to create tension along the way. Building it starting to get my butt kicked and working it up towards fair but exciting gameplay.
I love ideas for alternate ways to play, they are always interesting to consider. I've been trying to figure out if we can add sideboards to Commander lately...
The impression I've gotten is that the reason they aren't part of the format is for things such as Legion Angel and Wish effects, but an unofficial (and with unlimited size) sideboard for the purposes of revising and experimenting with the deck is always a good idea. It's easier to revise when you have all the cards you have considered for it right at your fingertips.
@@1notdeadfred My thought was that players could run a 10-15 card sideboard, and at the beginning of the game everyone would reveal their commanders, and then players could sideboard before the game begins. On one hand, this allows players to have more answers to certain strategies, as well as the ability to play Wish cards in a legal way, and on the other hand it means that the graveyard decks and the like run into much more hate. I haven't tried it out, but I think it could be interesting.
Better call it Home Rules. They supposedly exist to enhance the game experience. I play with a pod where infinite combos are a no no! Before Commander we used to play a multiplayer version with sets of 4 in 60 card decks. Basic one on one MTG rules with a twist. But thanks for focusing on the fun. You would fit in our table just fine
Come for the fun game variant that solves my Narset themed deck problems. Stay for the dissection of edh social dynamics.
This man should be on the rules committee
Awesome Idea! Thanks for publishing the video anyways! People could focus more on the fun and not the technicalities and just be happy
I love this idea!!!...let's make this a new format..this would increase build flavor and have players not worry so much about power levels and focus on the simpler fun side of it
This is awesome! I'm here for the vorthos shenanigans!
It'd be fun to do this with slivers and cycle through the hive's leaders canonically. The first sliver > sliver Queen > sliver Overlord > sliver hivelord > sliver legion > sliver gravemother (not 100% on the order of the last 3)
I have a rule 0 deck that's "it came from planet glurg" which is just a bunch of creatures that ramp you, until you cast your stupid monster of a commander, clone 4 or 5 things and try to win with that. I have Lonis, cryptic zoologist as a backup commander since it also is a simic commander based on playing lots of snowballing creatures and stealing your opponents stuff.
The new March of the Machine team-up cards would be cool with this too, e.g a grixis deck with Heartless Hidetsugu + Hidetsugu, Devouring Chaos + Kairi, the Swirling Sky + Hidetsugu and Kairi
Lol. The costume changes for the questions. Amazing!
Hey Joey! I study game design and have been playing tcg since I'm 8years old (And if I haven't played a tcg, I try to learn the rules). Card games are one of my special interests and I absolutely adore when people try things out with existing frameworks (Heck, that's kind of how EDH came to be). I myself enjoy creating cards with creatures from my fantasy universe (other special interest of mine) by trying to create cohesive new keywords and all.
I tried Force of Will at some point and one thing I enjoyed was how the "mana" came from a side-deck of 'stones' you draw and add to your play area by exhausting your "Commander". I think it kind of streamlines the deck (and make higher cost commanders more interesting) and I always wondered how this would work in EDH. This video really makes me want to tinker a few things to see how it could go.
I find it really unfortunate that people feel so strongly about the identity of something that they would try to shut you down when all you're doing is exploring the fun you could have. Thank you for this video, I wish more people would try to openly brainstorm like this and bring fresh ideas to the table!
Love the idea and i am absolutely going to build a doctors deck once doctor who drops
You reading the comments is the most frustrating part of commander! 😂😂
I don't envy you. You're a stronger person than I am for having patience for people.
But I am totally inspired to make 2 decks meant for a 1v1 with Urza vs. Mishra and call it The Brother's War!
Love the idea and scared of evolving my Phage deck into the newfound knowledge...
This is a really cool idea!
Really the main rule zero deck that I would like to make is an "Every Mutate Creature Ever" deck led by Surgeon General Commander. That card is just straight up the best commander you could have for that kind of deck, and it doesn't do anything on its own that would warrant it to be a non-legal card. There are not many creatures that would make a decent commander for this kind of deck (mostly just Esika and Jegantha, and neither of those provide the card advantage that Surgeon provides...)
As someone that has built several decks around my favorite characters (Olivia Voldaren, Teysa Karlov, Gisa, Liliana) I Really like this idea a lot. I've always just pit them in the 99 even if they don't work with the rest of the deck very well because I like the characters and I want to use them all. This also solves the weirdness of having several of the same character on the field at the same time. I would love for there to be some community concensus on how this could become a format variant like oathbreaker or something. I also like using the different arts each time I cast my commander because I can never choose just one
I have a janky rule 0 deck, Alela, Artful Provocateur, a hand full of magecraft/prowess/similar effects, 30 copies of Didn't Say Please, a pile of mana rocks and just basics. its super fun to play both just as is and with the "use your manners" clause as we've dubbed it. it gets really silly when everyone is saying "please don't counter/do counter that". I for this deck though I do have 30 replacement counters incase the meme is a no go. generally players are on board with a meh 3cmc counter instead of a pile of better counters from 1 to 4 cmc
I thought of this exact idea except much more broken treating them as partners because I thought it would be fun to have Akroma, Angels of Wrath and Fury as commanders. The whole conversation surrounding these sorts of special formats is very hard. I personally wouldn't want to play these formats myself, but other people who do want to do that should do that!
That's great and all, but holy, that acid jazzy soundtrack kicking off was fire
Congratulations, you ran into the exact same issues as the commander format as a whole. Commander is a format where you change some fundamental rules of magic in ways that can be obviously abused and unbalances the game, and raises many other questions. Yet that gets solved socially by people talking and ensuring they want the same fun and experiences.
You ran into a microcosm of the commander format within its rule zero, and the same solutions apply: don't be a jerk, and talk with people. And you might have learned a bit about the Rules Committee's job along the way!
Exactly this!
Did Joey just invent a new commander format?? 😂😂
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Great video. I'm definitely building SQUEE!