Love your paint color theory... Our CASE-IH dealer never has the mower parts we need, so.. off to New Holland. Local dealer usually doesn't stock enough parts to do much, but 50 miles down the valley, they have enough in parts to build three or four machines from scratch. So, we always end up with New Holland parts. They have both color turtles. Our 7230 we bought new, I'm the only one who has ever worked on it.. (much easier to work on than green!!!!) You found some red locktite, I've found some too, but any new "OEM" bolts have come with blue locktite... Always fun! Especially if your 70 some year old father mowed off a we'll head!
Hey Wes I have a 1411 that keeps getting out of time. Last summer we ended up splitting the cutter bar 2 times to replace connecting shafts and will be to be split again before we use it again in the spring. Any ideas on what I’m doing wrong. Put all new shafts 3 years ago along with a few new gear boxes. We also replaced the bolts that hold the bar together have check them every so often. But it’s the same shaft that always was going bad last summer. Any ideas?
Thank you for the video. I definitely am going to do mine in the Spring. I hope my Dealer has those Tea Cups you were talking about , as I was planning to remove those heavy pieces next Spring
we normally check our shock hubs each year and just check the oil levels. after that, our 1431 is ready to mow. We run ours with the deck 4 inches off the ground so we can get more cutting out of the fields.
Would these cutter bars be the same or at least "similar principal" as a Kuhn 600? I just got one on trade I plan on using this year. Don't know much about them. This is my first disc mower.
The New Holland cutterbar is a module type with "quill shafts" (small splined drive shafts) between the modules. Each module has a pair of bevel gears in it, a drive and driven. The modules bolt together with spacers on each end to make up the cutterbar. The newer NH bars have shock hubs with only about 4 splines in them, so if the cutterbar hits something solid, it shears off the splines and the turtle is free to spin on the shaft, protecting the bar. The older NH bars before the shock hubs had fully splined hubs (like this one) and if you hit something solid it either stripped the gears in the module or sheared a quill shaft between the powered end of the bar and the module that hit the solid whatever. The modules are easily repairable and you can keep an extra RH and LH on hand if you want, so if you have a breakdown, you can split the bar, bolt in a new module, and get back to work. On the newer shock-hub bars, if you shear a hub, it's 47 dollars and about fifteen minutes total to get back up and running. Kuhn bars are gearbed type bars... there's an input gear, turning an idler gear, that turns another idler gear, that turns a turtle drive gear, that turns another pair of idler gears, that turns the next turtle hub, on and on down the entire length of the bar... they all share a common oil sump (the bar gear bed gearbox itself) and share the oil between them all... so if something goes wrong, it usually grenades the bar, as broken gear teeth or ball bearings are free to roam around and get pulled in between gears at will... The Kuhn bars have their Protecta-Drive hubs installed, which if something solid is hit, it shears off the ENTIRE TURTLE and tosses it out the back of the mower. Kuhn cuts a slot in the shaft connecting the drive gear, going up through the bearing, and sticking out the top of the bearing hub that bolts into the top of the cutterbar, which connects to the turtle hub itself turning the blades. They cut a slot in this shaft so it is reduced in diameter from about the inch or so diameter of the shaft to less than that of a dime in the bottom of the cut slot, so this creates a "weak link" to twist off if something solid gets hit by a cutter disk. This shaft twists off and thus the disk (turtle) gets thrown out the back of the mower. TO fix it, you have to buy an ENTIRE NEW ASSEMBLY, including the turtle disk hub the disk bolts to up top, with the new shaft, bearing, bearing hub that bolts into the top of the bar, and drive gear on bottom. Kuhn WILL NOT sell individual parts, so if you have a seal go out or a bearing getting sloppy, you MUST buy the entire assembly, which is about $250 bucks EACH... The old assembly is removed from the top of the bar with four bolts, and the new one timed (turn the gear to align everything correctly) and dropped in, then tightened down, the thrown cutter disk has the top cap removed by pulling two bolts, remove the other two bolts under the cap, and then install the cutter disk on top of the new hub, orienting it correctly so the timing is right, then installing the two inner bolts, the dust cap, and the two outer bolts... About a 15-20 minute field repair... Main difference-- about $210 more per hub for the Kuhn than for the New Holland bar.... No thanks! I researched all this as I've been looking at getting a newer hay cutter. I've run a Kuhn for another farmer and it's a nice machine, but the New Holland will cut just as well and the parts are a LOT cheaper, and it's a more durable design. The gearbed type cutters are prone to damage that can cause very expensive repairs-- a bent blade can cut through the top of the gear case, allowing dirt to enter and oil to escape. With age, the accumulation of grass and dirt and moisture under the skid shoes tends to rust pinholes through the gearbox cutterbed, and then you have to try to weld them up to reseal the case. In the end, the ONLY solution is to replace the ENTIRE gearbox case at great expense. When operated for long periods on steep inclines, the gearbed type cutterbars starve the gears and bearings on the upper end of the bar for oil, as all the oil is free to run down to the low end of the bar. On NH, Lely, Vermeer, and other shaft-drive modular cutterbars, each module has it's own encased oil or light grease that lubricates that particular module-- if a seal goes, if a bearing gets worn, or whatever, ONLY that module is damaged and the damage is contained to that module-- the rest of the modules are independent and have their own grease and oil supply so they cannot cross-contaminate each other. Operated on inclines, each module keeps full lubrication, as the oil simply runs to the downhill side of EACH MODULE during operation, but REMAINS IN THAT MODULE. If a blade gets bent, it will only be cutting into a hollow cast spacer, which is MUCH cheaper and easier to replace, and can be replaced individually... For all these reasons, I GREATLY prefer the modular cutterbars like New Holland, Lely, Vermeer (whose bars were built by Lely), and some Massey/New Idea cutters that had the modular bars. Later! OL J R :)
In addition, some of the older Kuhns had NON-TOP SERVICEABLE BARS... meaning that if a bearing or gear went out, you had to take the ENTIRE CUTTERBAR apart to replace it... I think this was prior to the GMD Series II cutterbars... the 'old style' Kuhn bars were used on a LOT of different cutters over the years, including New Holland 416 and 417 cutters (prior to New Holland making their own modular bars later on). The new Deere 3 point hitch disk mowers (no conditioners) is merely a repainted Kuhn mower in Deere green. The pull-type Deere mowers use a modular-type gearbed bar that's like a cross between the gearbed Kuhn-type bar and the modular New Holland/Lely bars... it's all gears turning gears, no quill shafts or drive shafts down the length of the bar, but the gears are housed in "modules" that can be unbolted from each other at a 45 degree angle on each end, and serviced individually. OLF has a video showing this awhile back, servicing a module on this Deere windrower, which also uses this same type bar. Kuhn has started reselling the old style cutterbar mowers, as a cheaper alternative to their more expensive "series II" top-serviceable cutterbar mowers. Thing is, pay me now or pay me later-- they might be cheap, but when something goes wrong, you've got a holy hell NIGHTMARE on your hands to fix... A lot of those old style cutters were basically considered as "disposable" cutters-- you ran them a few years til they started wearing out and then got rid of them cheap before you had REAL problems, and just took the beating on them. I'd NEVER EVEN CONSIDER a non-top service type bar, unless you're getting the cutter at a practical STEAL and can demo it and make SURE it has no issues... Later! OL J R :)
Paul from Center Point Iowa. Appreciate your videos. What's your opinion of John Deere Deere discbines compared to New Holland, example 1411 to equivalent John Deere
14:50ish Wes immediately blames horses; this was a perfect time to lead a horse to water and find out if the cart or horse got there first Thanx Wes still lovin' your videos from the left coast near the Crapitol of California
OK. I'm the 55th person to watch this video, so to me how can there be a thumbs down on this video? Are there people out there that just automatically put a thumbs down just for spit? If you don't like the person doing the videos then why waist your time? Keep up the good work Wes!
It seems there's always something to fix on the farm. If not your's; then the neighbors. I wind up doing the same thing, I tell em' "Let's fix it at my shop", at lease I know I've got the tools to work with.
I don’t understand the thumbs down given for the video. Did those people think the title was for a mini-series on the History Channel? Anyway I enjoyed the video very informative! Thank you!
Thanks for explaining the timing of the hubs, messicks did a video and all they say is make sure you have them timed right, they don’t even tell you how to do it So was your friend mowing all this time with the hubs not in time? Wouldn’t the knifes been beating the hell out of the turtles?
I would think there is some sort of a timing mark on those pieces if the timing is critical. It might be something as simple as a center punch mark or symbol.
I didn't notice you checking the splines in the turtle mounts... Got to always check those few splines they put in them! Seems to me there are 5 or 6 in there.. if they don't look perfect, swap it out for a good one! We keep a few new, or at least good used ones just in case
He has the old style "Non-shock hubs". They are fully splined. I would replace them with the newer one's but this isn't his cutter so he is reusing them.
On a cutter bar with ShockPro hubs the assembly and timing seemed very easy in a NH video. Perhaps this is another type of cutter bar? There is a risk someone has messed with the timing of gears inside cutter bar?
Probably one of the short shafts or internal splines are very worn or starting to strip causing the out of time deal. I doubt somebody who is going to all the trouble of installing the assemblies would drop one in wrong. But it happens.
Quite possibly-- the short splined shafts that connect one module to the next one out don't last forever-- the splines wear out over time leading to a "sloppy bar" (you can turn one disk at one end of the bar part of a turn before the disk at the other end of the bar starts to move-- in a "tight bar" it should be almost instantaneous when you turn one the other end one should start to turn as well). Occasionally a quill shaft (what they call the short splined shafts) will get twisted from the mower hitting something and create a timing error as well because the shaft is no longer straight, so its splines are out of time from one end to the other... If whoever was fixing the thing didn't realize that they have to time it, and they split the bar to replace a module or quill shaft (which sometimes they'll twist off if a bearing locks up or something real hard is hit) and just slapped a new one in there and didn't get the timing correct when they bolted the bar back together, then yeah that would throw off all the other disk timing down the bar from the point where the split was and the error was made... Later! OL J R :)
Just kidding! When I do them I Lock the drive turtle down and twist the end turtle backwards. That takes all the slack out. Then I match the turtles the best I can. The newer New Holland Discbines have a small rubber behind the short drive shafts. Hard to find on the parts break down. It's to cut down on vibration wear
I did a cause and effect essay on the new generation John Deere tractors and I got a D on it because the teacher didn’t understand half the things I said. I probably could have explained every little thing I said but it would’ve been a long paper.
Alex Williams if you think your facts and theories are valid then the teacher needs to research your info for themselves and regrade. My thoughts anyway. Just because they do not understand a subject does not mean you don’t or shouldn’t.
Alex Williams i had the same with several teachers in my days Most of them teach those kids for more then 30 years that the teacher is always right and at the end they realy believe its true Just take his d and try to keep up with other teachers who give you a good feeling I had a d once because a dipstick told u's everything about 2 and 4 stroke engines on sparks When i mentioned 2 strokes on diesel he just Said they didnt exist When i told him about 2 strokes with a camshaft and valves he refused to teach me any longer I Saïd thats fine cause you are to stupid to teach me anything So one thing led to another and iT ended that i could find me another school So my advise is leave him under that stone where he is living, dont fight him cause you have more knowhow then he has
No... Deere 3 point cutters are just a Kuhn mower repainted Deere green. They're IDENTICAL to the Kuhn GMD-series II mowers, using the same gearbed-type disk drive common-sump gearbox for the cutterbar. Deere pull-type mo-co's and windrowers use a hybrid gearbed-type drive train of alternating idler gears and disk drive gears in the cutterbar, BUT they are housed in separate modules that can be unbolted from one another to separate out the module needing service-- the ends of each module are set at a 45 degree angle that bolts to the one next to it like this ( // ) when viewed from the front... This gives some of the advantages of the gearbed type drive train with the advantages of the modular cutterbar like the New Hollands. As for timing, they should be similar in how it's done, yes... Later! OL J R :)
No, but idgits often lose their stuff or toss old ones aside if they break or whatever, and a disk mower is particularly good at finding ANY string, wire, rope, lead lines, fishing lines, or anything else stringlike that might have been thrown on the ground even years before... and of course winding it around the hub in a hurry at 2300 RPM's... Later! OL J R :)
I haven't heard the word idgits used in over 50 years. You must be a Limey because the only other person I ever heard use it was my Latin teacher back in high school in 65, 66, and 67. He was as EGLISH as they come and was The Coolest Dude I knew in those days. Reginald Finn was my Robin Williams to my 'Dead Poets Society". Thanks for the memories, Luke. sdh T.A. '67 in CT
You're welcome. No, not Limey... Texan actually. Funny my folks used the term "idgits" quite frequently. Dad had another term he picked up at work. There was a gal that worked at the nuke plant everybody knew, had shall we say some very blonde moments... so they took her last name and used it to refer to doing something "very blonde" ie "not so bright"... so he'd say "don't be an ignotz" meaning "don't do something stupid", or "what did you think would happen, ignotz?" when you DID do something stupid you should have known better than to do in the first place... Later! OL J R :)
Emergency Today, I am glad you got it. I am 4 hours west of Wes and some how when I get notification and it says 0 views when I click on there are already 20 or 30. Even when I see the notification hit my email. I am just glad to watch these good videos.
Hey I bet that thing works better than it ever did once you get done timing everything properly your dad's going to think it's a new machine I know you're not crazy about it but he's going to like it better
There's four screws- bolts that have to come out in order to turn them. Put all square then 90 the turtles. ? Though you routinely grease the hubs yearly? 174 ft on the head. It'll give something to do for an hr or two. O don't hit a deere with it in the field laying in the hay. The shart going through WILL CORQUE SCREW. Lalalala blah. lk like shit man. Wheeeph. Maybe one day we can end this shit.
Wes, I know what you are going to say, but you should really try a pair of work pants with built in knee protectors. There is nothing better when occasionally having to crawl around on the ground.
I have a Case with the same type of drive for the turtles. It uses 0 grease in the gearbox that drives the turtles and 90W in the side gearbox. I change out the 0 grease every season. Once you go disc, you never go back to sickle. Never.
The seals on the shafts are protected from the elements so they give very little problems especially with 90 weight oil. What's amazing is the discs spin at about 3,000 rpm. if I'm correct. The top seal sometimes gets torn up from net wrap and other nylon rope products. But it's protected somewhat.
All the four bolt holes in each hub should be turned to align like this-- ++++++++ down the length of the bar... Easy peasy. They should NOT be like this-- +x+x+x+x Get it?? Later! OL J R :)
Love your paint color theory...
Our CASE-IH dealer never has the mower parts we need, so.. off to New Holland. Local dealer usually doesn't stock enough parts to do much, but 50 miles down the valley, they have enough in parts to build three or four machines from scratch.
So, we always end up with New Holland parts. They have both color turtles.
Our 7230 we bought new, I'm the only one who has ever worked on it.. (much easier to work on than green!!!!)
You found some red locktite, I've found some too, but any new "OEM" bolts have come with blue locktite...
Always fun! Especially if your 70 some year old father mowed off a we'll head!
I just wanna give you a great big thank you for putting this series of videos up helps me a ton with my new Holland 1409
Hey Wes I have a 1411 that keeps getting out of time. Last summer we ended up splitting the cutter bar 2 times to replace connecting shafts and will be to be split again before we use it again in the spring. Any ideas on what I’m doing wrong. Put all new shafts 3 years ago along with a few new gear boxes. We also replaced the bolts that hold the bar together have check them every so often. But it’s the same shaft that always was going bad last summer. Any ideas?
Wes I really appreciate these videos, thanks
Thank you for the video. I definitely am going to do mine in the Spring. I hope my Dealer has those Tea Cups you were talking about , as I was planning to remove those heavy pieces next Spring
Excelent video very informative
Thanks for sharing Wes..
we normally check our shock hubs each year and just check the oil levels. after that, our 1431 is ready to mow. We run ours with the deck 4 inches off the ground so we can get more cutting out of the fields.
How do you adjust the blades? To keep them from hitting the gear housing?
Would these cutter bars be the same or at least "similar principal" as a Kuhn 600? I just got one on trade I plan on using this year. Don't know much about them. This is my first disc mower.
The New Holland cutterbar is a module type with "quill shafts" (small splined drive shafts) between the modules. Each module has a pair of bevel gears in it, a drive and driven. The modules bolt together with spacers on each end to make up the cutterbar. The newer NH bars have shock hubs with only about 4 splines in them, so if the cutterbar hits something solid, it shears off the splines and the turtle is free to spin on the shaft, protecting the bar. The older NH bars before the shock hubs had fully splined hubs (like this one) and if you hit something solid it either stripped the gears in the module or sheared a quill shaft between the powered end of the bar and the module that hit the solid whatever. The modules are easily repairable and you can keep an extra RH and LH on hand if you want, so if you have a breakdown, you can split the bar, bolt in a new module, and get back to work. On the newer shock-hub bars, if you shear a hub, it's 47 dollars and about fifteen minutes total to get back up and running.
Kuhn bars are gearbed type bars... there's an input gear, turning an idler gear, that turns another idler gear, that turns a turtle drive gear, that turns another pair of idler gears, that turns the next turtle hub, on and on down the entire length of the bar... they all share a common oil sump (the bar gear bed gearbox itself) and share the oil between them all... so if something goes wrong, it usually grenades the bar, as broken gear teeth or ball bearings are free to roam around and get pulled in between gears at will... The Kuhn bars have their Protecta-Drive hubs installed, which if something solid is hit, it shears off the ENTIRE TURTLE and tosses it out the back of the mower. Kuhn cuts a slot in the shaft connecting the drive gear, going up through the bearing, and sticking out the top of the bearing hub that bolts into the top of the cutterbar, which connects to the turtle hub itself turning the blades. They cut a slot in this shaft so it is reduced in diameter from about the inch or so diameter of the shaft to less than that of a dime in the bottom of the cut slot, so this creates a "weak link" to twist off if something solid gets hit by a cutter disk. This shaft twists off and thus the disk (turtle) gets thrown out the back of the mower. TO fix it, you have to buy an ENTIRE NEW ASSEMBLY, including the turtle disk hub the disk bolts to up top, with the new shaft, bearing, bearing hub that bolts into the top of the bar, and drive gear on bottom. Kuhn WILL NOT sell individual parts, so if you have a seal go out or a bearing getting sloppy, you MUST buy the entire assembly, which is about $250 bucks EACH... The old assembly is removed from the top of the bar with four bolts, and the new one timed (turn the gear to align everything correctly) and dropped in, then tightened down, the thrown cutter disk has the top cap removed by pulling two bolts, remove the other two bolts under the cap, and then install the cutter disk on top of the new hub, orienting it correctly so the timing is right, then installing the two inner bolts, the dust cap, and the two outer bolts... About a 15-20 minute field repair...
Main difference-- about $210 more per hub for the Kuhn than for the New Holland bar.... No thanks!
I researched all this as I've been looking at getting a newer hay cutter. I've run a Kuhn for another farmer and it's a nice machine, but the New Holland will cut just as well and the parts are a LOT cheaper, and it's a more durable design. The gearbed type cutters are prone to damage that can cause very expensive repairs-- a bent blade can cut through the top of the gear case, allowing dirt to enter and oil to escape. With age, the accumulation of grass and dirt and moisture under the skid shoes tends to rust pinholes through the gearbox cutterbed, and then you have to try to weld them up to reseal the case. In the end, the ONLY solution is to replace the ENTIRE gearbox case at great expense. When operated for long periods on steep inclines, the gearbed type cutterbars starve the gears and bearings on the upper end of the bar for oil, as all the oil is free to run down to the low end of the bar. On NH, Lely, Vermeer, and other shaft-drive modular cutterbars, each module has it's own encased oil or light grease that lubricates that particular module-- if a seal goes, if a bearing gets worn, or whatever, ONLY that module is damaged and the damage is contained to that module-- the rest of the modules are independent and have their own grease and oil supply so they cannot cross-contaminate each other. Operated on inclines, each module keeps full lubrication, as the oil simply runs to the downhill side of EACH MODULE during operation, but REMAINS IN THAT MODULE. If a blade gets bent, it will only be cutting into a hollow cast spacer, which is MUCH cheaper and easier to replace, and can be replaced individually...
For all these reasons, I GREATLY prefer the modular cutterbars like New Holland, Lely, Vermeer (whose bars were built by Lely), and some Massey/New Idea cutters that had the modular bars.
Later! OL J R :)
In addition, some of the older Kuhns had NON-TOP SERVICEABLE BARS... meaning that if a bearing or gear went out, you had to take the ENTIRE CUTTERBAR apart to replace it... I think this was prior to the GMD Series II cutterbars... the 'old style' Kuhn bars were used on a LOT of different cutters over the years, including New Holland 416 and 417 cutters (prior to New Holland making their own modular bars later on). The new Deere 3 point hitch disk mowers (no conditioners) is merely a repainted Kuhn mower in Deere green. The pull-type Deere mowers use a modular-type gearbed bar that's like a cross between the gearbed Kuhn-type bar and the modular New Holland/Lely bars... it's all gears turning gears, no quill shafts or drive shafts down the length of the bar, but the gears are housed in "modules" that can be unbolted from each other at a 45 degree angle on each end, and serviced individually. OLF has a video showing this awhile back, servicing a module on this Deere windrower, which also uses this same type bar.
Kuhn has started reselling the old style cutterbar mowers, as a cheaper alternative to their more expensive "series II" top-serviceable cutterbar mowers. Thing is, pay me now or pay me later-- they might be cheap, but when something goes wrong, you've got a holy hell NIGHTMARE on your hands to fix... A lot of those old style cutters were basically considered as "disposable" cutters-- you ran them a few years til they started wearing out and then got rid of them cheap before you had REAL problems, and just took the beating on them. I'd NEVER EVEN CONSIDER a non-top service type bar, unless you're getting the cutter at a practical STEAL and can demo it and make SURE it has no issues...
Later! OL J R :)
Really enjoying this ! I'm just use to haybines so watching you work on this discbine is really cool. Thanks Wes , keep up the great work .
Paul from Center Point Iowa. Appreciate your videos. What's your opinion of John Deere Deere discbines compared to New Holland, example 1411 to equivalent John Deere
Yo any tricks for getting conditioning rolled end bearings off. Or should I just clean up the slag and melt them off again
How expensive would a used cutterbar. Cost be or is it cheaper to buy module pieces ? ...can I call you ...lol
Where do you get those things you called teacups bolt guards?
great video wes thanks
14:50ish Wes immediately blames horses; this was a perfect time to lead a horse to water and find out if the cart or horse got there first
Thanx Wes still lovin' your videos from the left coast near the Crapitol of California
OK.
I'm the 55th person to watch this video, so to me how can there be a thumbs down on this video?
Are there people out there that just automatically put a thumbs down just for spit?
If you don't like the person doing the videos then why waist your time?
Keep up the good work Wes!
Never can tell. Perhaps the fast thumber downer was mad about something. Who knows. And who cares. It's got way more thumbs up.
jim h you just can't get over yourself that you're pathetic. You have nothing better to do to try to start trouble. I will always win.
Good start
U do have a vast knowledge on farm equipment.for sure
The thumbs down from the New Holland techs that don't fix anything.
Nice vid wes, ready for some mowing videos in a few weeks
It would be nice to have you as a neighbor
hi wesley nice video 10/10
It seems there's always something to fix on the farm. If not your's; then the neighbors. I wind up doing the same thing, I tell em' "Let's fix it at my shop", at lease I know I've got the tools to work with.
Worm Hole Farming lol thats exactly how i started my business 25 years ago
Btw i like your beard (same as mine)
Bertje Tolberg Thanks
Keep on the good worck West .
I don’t understand the thumbs down given for the video. Did those people think the title was for a mini-series on the History Channel? Anyway I enjoyed the video very informative! Thank you!
Is the Tee Cups an item you can get from the Dealer ?
Where do you actually buy those teacups?
Thanks for explaining the timing of the hubs, messicks did a video and all they say is make sure you have them timed right, they don’t even tell you how to do it
So was your friend mowing all this time with the hubs not in time? Wouldn’t the knifes been beating the hell out of the turtles?
I would think there is some sort of a timing mark on those pieces if the timing is critical. It might be something as simple as a center punch mark or symbol.
Norman Bates its a coarse spline so its either 90 degrees or its miles out
Pretty easy to get by eye
No marks
No need for marks-- just line up all the bolt holes like this ++++++ down the length of the bar...
Later! OL J R :)
Can you put a shock Pro hub on the first turtle the drive turtle?
I need to buy all cutting system side by side. For 1411 new Holland.
I didn't notice you checking the splines in the turtle mounts...
Got to always check those few splines they put in them!
Seems to me there are 5 or 6 in there.. if they don't look perfect, swap it out for a good one! We keep a few new, or at least good used ones just in case
He has the old style "Non-shock hubs". They are fully splined. I would replace them with the newer one's but this isn't his cutter so he is reusing them.
Mike Goodman got ya... .. makes for much more expensive repairs.
On a cutter bar with ShockPro hubs the assembly and timing seemed very easy in a NH video. Perhaps this is another type of cutter bar? There is a risk someone has messed with the timing of gears inside cutter bar?
Probably one of the short shafts or internal splines are very worn or starting to strip causing the out of time deal. I doubt somebody who is going to all the trouble of installing the assemblies would drop one in wrong. But it happens.
Quite possibly-- the short splined shafts that connect one module to the next one out don't last forever-- the splines wear out over time leading to a "sloppy bar" (you can turn one disk at one end of the bar part of a turn before the disk at the other end of the bar starts to move-- in a "tight bar" it should be almost instantaneous when you turn one the other end one should start to turn as well). Occasionally a quill shaft (what they call the short splined shafts) will get twisted from the mower hitting something and create a timing error as well because the shaft is no longer straight, so its splines are out of time from one end to the other...
If whoever was fixing the thing didn't realize that they have to time it, and they split the bar to replace a module or quill shaft (which sometimes they'll twist off if a bearing locks up or something real hard is hit) and just slapped a new one in there and didn't get the timing correct when they bolted the bar back together, then yeah that would throw off all the other disk timing down the bar from the point where the split was and the error was made...
Later! OL J R :)
Where can a guy get them steel bolt cups?
Hey Wes! The first drive turtle rock guards are on backwards. Guess what? You put all the rest of them on backwards to match. Duh! 7:35
Just kidding! When I do them I Lock the drive turtle down and twist the end turtle backwards. That takes all the slack out. Then I match the turtles the best I can. The newer New Holland Discbines have a small rubber behind the short drive shafts. Hard to find on the parts break down. It's to cut down on vibration wear
I did a cause and effect essay on the new generation John Deere tractors and I got a D on it because the teacher didn’t understand half the things I said. I probably could have explained every little thing I said but it would’ve been a long paper.
Alex Williams if you think your facts and theories are valid then the teacher needs to research your info for themselves and regrade. My thoughts anyway. Just because they do not understand a subject does not mean you don’t or shouldn’t.
Alex Williams i had the same with several teachers in my days
Most of them teach those kids for more then 30 years that the teacher is always right and at the end they realy believe its true
Just take his d and try to keep up with other teachers who give you a good feeling
I had a d once because a dipstick told u's everything about 2 and 4 stroke engines on sparks
When i mentioned 2 strokes on diesel he just Said they didnt exist
When i told him about 2 strokes with a camshaft and valves he refused to teach me any longer
I Saïd thats fine cause you are to stupid to teach me anything
So one thing led to another and iT ended that i could find me another school
So my advise is leave him under that stone where he is living, dont fight him cause you have more knowhow then he has
That a great money savings advice repair shop would cost at least a 1000$
checkout jpaydirt . 613 chain clanker and multi rotor heli video if you have heli problems
Are you going to test run it? Since theirs no green stuff to cut
I found a green disc with wings along US59 for $4k near Elizabeth,mn..
Are John Deere cutter bars the same??
No... Deere 3 point cutters are just a Kuhn mower repainted Deere green. They're IDENTICAL to the Kuhn GMD-series II mowers, using the same gearbed-type disk drive common-sump gearbox for the cutterbar. Deere pull-type mo-co's and windrowers use a hybrid gearbed-type drive train of alternating idler gears and disk drive gears in the cutterbar, BUT they are housed in separate modules that can be unbolted from one another to separate out the module needing service-- the ends of each module are set at a 45 degree angle that bolts to the one next to it like this ( // ) when viewed from the front... This gives some of the advantages of the gearbed type drive train with the advantages of the modular cutterbar like the New Hollands.
As for timing, they should be similar in how it's done, yes...
Later! OL J R :)
I'll bet there was another chunk of horsey Lead Line on the last one too. sdh in CT
Soooo somebody tried to mow horses? Crikey
No, but idgits often lose their stuff or toss old ones aside if they break or whatever, and a disk mower is particularly good at finding ANY string, wire, rope, lead lines, fishing lines, or anything else stringlike that might have been thrown on the ground even years before... and of course winding it around the hub in a hurry at 2300 RPM's... Later! OL J R :)
I haven't heard the word idgits used in over 50 years. You must be a Limey because the only other person I ever heard use it was my Latin teacher back in high school in 65, 66, and 67. He was as EGLISH as they come and was The Coolest Dude I knew in those days. Reginald Finn was my Robin Williams to my 'Dead Poets Society". Thanks for the memories, Luke. sdh T.A. '67 in CT
Crikey - is that Limey or Aussy?
You're welcome. No, not Limey... Texan actually. Funny my folks used the term "idgits" quite frequently. Dad had another term he picked up at work. There was a gal that worked at the nuke plant everybody knew, had shall we say some very blonde moments... so they took her last name and used it to refer to doing something "very blonde" ie "not so bright"... so he'd say "don't be an ignotz" meaning "don't do something stupid", or "what did you think would happen, ignotz?" when you DID do something stupid you should have known better than to do in the first place...
Later! OL J R :)
Wow! Already up to 103 thousand subs
First for once on the OLF channel
Congrats !!!
Emergency Today,
I am glad you got it. I am 4 hours west of Wes and some how when I get notification and it says 0 views when I click on there are already 20 or 30. Even when I see the notification hit my email. I am just glad to watch these good videos.
Congrats man! you win the internet for the day
Always learn something here
Hey I bet that thing works better than it ever did once you get done timing everything properly your dad's going to think it's a new machine I know you're not crazy about it but he's going to like it better
Another fine job by OLF ,Hay was it raining
Hey Wes, this is off topic but I have a 3155 that is popping out of 3rd and 4th. Any ideas? Thanks
Wes do you still have video up on JD 235 Cutter Bar when you swapped out a section? I did not see it?
Wes I found it thanks
There's four screws- bolts that have to come out in order to turn them. Put all square then 90 the turtles. ? Though you routinely grease the hubs yearly? 174 ft on the head. It'll give something to do for an hr or two. O don't hit a deere with it in the field laying in the hay. The shart going through WILL CORQUE SCREW. Lalalala blah. lk like shit man. Wheeeph. Maybe one day we can end this shit.
Wes, I know what you are going to say, but you should really try a pair of work pants with built in knee protectors.
There is nothing better when occasionally having to crawl around on the ground.
Why would anyone try to use a socket wrench and a pry bar to try and take these off? impossible to do!
chad harmon a. No it isn't b.do you have an impact drive in this cab . In the field and bit of timber and a 3/4 inch drive only marginal slower.
I have a Case with the same type of drive for the turtles. It uses 0 grease in the gearbox that drives the turtles and 90W in the side gearbox. I change out the 0 grease every season. Once you go disc, you never go back to sickle. Never.
Case= New Holland... same machine, different paint and stickers. Later! OL J R :)
I thought you we busy and stopped posting. I shouldn’t known TH-cam unsubscribed me. You and cottontop both. Wtf
How does one drive another, gear or chain?
40yeartrucker shaft between each module (gearbox)
Does that mean there is a lot of oil seals in that cutter bar, must be a maintenance nightmare.
The seals on the shafts are protected from the elements so they give very little problems especially with 90 weight oil. What's amazing is the discs spin at about 3,000 rpm. if I'm correct. The top seal sometimes gets torn up from net wrap and other nylon rope products. But it's protected somewhat.
Wes still not sure how to Aline step by step should be great
All the four bolt holes in each hub should be turned to align like this-- ++++++++ down the length of the bar... Easy peasy. They should NOT be like this-- +x+x+x+x
Get it?? Later! OL J R :)
Comment
Try not moving camera so much. Get to the point.