The fact that in order to appeal, they have to go through the very same Post Office legal department that wrongfully prosecuted them, is proving a big barrier to people in need of justice. The Post Office should play no part whatsoever in adjudicating who gets what compensation. It's like giving the mugger who robbed you a say in what property you get back!
It’s terrifying that you really *can* go to jail because the computer system didn’t work and that barely anyone will take any notice until someone makes a tv programme about it.
This is happening all the time to all sorts of decent everyday people being prosecuted for crimes they have not committed. The legal system loves a vulnerable person who can’t fight back they still get paid no matter what the outcome thousands of cases are also acquitted which means they should never have been charged a money making scam why do you think lie detectors cannot be used because too many people would lose too much money.
@@normankennith7919 Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t seem to have any interest in people who live, work and adhere to the laws, customs and traditions of this country. Anyone who falls outside of that however has his full, undivided attention.
you mean he has no interest in the british sheep & lemmings of which there are many? without jezza persuading gerry adams to involve the ira in talks, the good friday agreement would never have happened!! despite what the daily mail, sun & jewish chronicle might say, corbyn has always called for peace talks between israel & palestine for well over 45 years! now many people agree with him! he also warned of the danger of uk's illegal war involvement in the middle east in iraq, afghanistan, syria & libya, where many innocent lives were lost, including those of british soldiers, as well as some who returned home minus their limbs! jeremy has recently called for a stop to the israeli massacre of palestinian civilians in gaza & for peace talks between russia & ukraine!! jeremy's only crime is that he is a peace monger! are you a warmonger &/or are you jewish? capiche?@@CHuzz7777
So, if the money was not missing but the sub-postmasters paid the money so they would not be prosecuted, who got the "missing" money? we need to investigate that.
We are now hearing that post office 'investigators' (and debt recovery teams?) where getting 40% of any money they managed to get out of people as a bonus and incentive, so they got a lot of it.
Here is the thing, apart from all the other aspects of this affair the role of Lord Neuberger in the Recusal seems to have escaped attention. I have therefore pasted the following ‘The role of Lord Neuberger in the recusal fiasco (Justice Fraser) should be investigated’ on as many TH-cam articles as I could, about ten, but when I checked to see if there was any response I discovered they had all been taken down. This Kafkaesque episode staggers one at every turn, even when Big brother has been outed he seems to be still working away! I really want to know why Lord Neuberger interfered , if the recusal had succeeded the whole noble attempt at taking on the stinking system would have failed.
It doesn't matter wether she signed off in the prosecutions or not, she KNEW the system was faulty, as soon as the first instance came to light SHE should have ordered a complete review by IT specialist's , had she done so this whole sorry charade would never have happened... So YES she most DEFINETLY should give the gong back
It’s only a gong , and apparently she has. The Post Office is owned by the taxpayer, and this government have had 14 years to sort this matter out. Cameron, May, Johnson , Truss, Sunak……what have they been doing apart from ruining this country and turning it into a prison island.
Give the gong back. Needs a jail sentence They took my unkles house his supermarket his pension his reputation. Wife had a breakdown and he killed himself. Are you serious.
The Blair government was in power when the scandal started in 1999. Crozier was ceo from 2003 when the scandal was gaining momentum. Starmer was head of the cps when they prosecuted some sub postmasters. So they should all be in court.
As a foreigner, what I do not understand how nobody questioned the sudden corruption of previously honest employees. Common sense seems to have flown out the window.
it seems that the Post office knew due to how the software works, it registers keystrokes and the post office knew that sharing information would damage its reputation so hid the evidence, this was highlighted in court
The reason nobody questioned it was because they knew it was the horizon system but chose the easier route of shutting down any questioning, dissent and protest by bullying and blaming those with the problem and financially ruining them. Rather than fixing the Fujitsu system at the root of the problem, which would have been way more expensive. Truely corporate culture at its evil zenith in the UK at this point led by a woman of the cloth. You can’t make this 💩 up. Britain has regressed so far under the neocon boot.
She should be sent to prison under her watch innocent people where sent to prison they should also take her wealth of her and give it to the post office people who went to prison. Why do these people never go to prison including Ed Davey who has gone quiet for some reason he’s usually mouthing of on the tv not right now
Wasnt she supposed to be in the church of England, yet she knew this was wrong as so did the staff , yet she did nothing. They need to jail her and kick out of the church
You don't need to be a Christian to have a sense of moral responsibility. Sadly, those who call themselves "Christians" seem to think they have a monopoly on it !
They found out the software was at fault many years ago after literally causing hundreds of people to lose their livelihood, their liberty and in some cases their lives. It was subsequently found that when the error was discovered the post office did nothing and continued to persecute staff. None of the managers and executives involved were ever thoroughly investigated for this egregious miscarriage of justice. This should have been sorted out the moment they were literally forced to own up to their error and everyone exonerated instead of letting this fester for so many years.
@@adamwallace8769So it must be Blair to blame as he was in 10 downing Street at the start of this scandal in 1999! Crozier was CEO from 2003 till 2010. Starmer was head of the CPS when they prosecuted some sub postmasters. But yes blame Thatcher. Jeez.
Why did it take a tv show to expose this, where is the accountability in government? Why are ministers only interest now it’s in the public? They didn’t care before the show aired?
Not a single person involved from the Royal Mail will be prosecuted for what they did to these innocent people. It didn't just destroy the lives of the postmasters but also their families. Whatever money they receive in competition is not enough.
I worked as a top-notch software developer for over 20 years. Many of those were in the City, where I was very handsomely remunerated for my services. But, brilliant as a lot of my work was, I knew damn well that when I produced a new system there were initially likely to be bugs in it. If there were none, I was very surprised. The DEFAULT assumption when you release a new system is ALWAYS that it will have bugs! No ifs, no buts, no maybes. When accounting discrepancies appeared those in charge at the Post Office should have immediately assumed there were problems with Horizon. Instead they accused 900 innocent people of fraud. For the pain and harm that was needless and recklessly done to these innocent people, those in charge at the Post Office at the time should go to jail!
I DISAGREE, MANY SYSTEMS SUCH AS MEDICAL SYSTEMS ARE OPERATIONALLY CERTIFIED BEFORE RELEASE TO THE PUBLIC. THIS SEEMS TO BE A PROBLEM WITH SPECIFIC ORGANISATIONS.
@@GWills-ys6rd Certifying doesn't mean all the bugs have been found. All it means is that a prescribed testing scheme is claimed to have been carried out: which may or may not be the case. People carry out testing, and they can lie and/or be lazy.
@@DavidGetling no I don't, that is why I'm asking. And I wasn't trying to be clever. As you haven't answered my questions, I'll just assume I asked fair questions.
And they are called the wealthy. All scumbags the lot of them that don't want to admit their mistakes. Pharmaceuticals, Natwest, post office and governments etc, they all tread on the working class and will never admit to their bullsh-t cockups
These are everyday hard working people. People with individual feelings, families and their own individual stories. All ignored for years and even now that they are getting something back, it’s like the government have dived into the bins and dragged out some scrap as a sorry! These people’s lives have been utterly, utterly ruined. Their friends and family have doubted them, they have doubted themselves, they’ve lost money, lost sleep, worried, considered suicide, and no doubt suffered from stress related illnesses. All the while the perpetrators have suffered nothing and those high in power have been congratulated. This is an evil state of affairs that those in the wrong should get off with a fraction of what the accused have suffered. People have GONE TO PRISON FFS for being wrongly accused. It is incomprehensibly disgusting that some of these payouts are so incredibly disproportionate to the long lasting and irreversible damage that has been done!
The television drama is doing a lot of good. I hope things are going to be fast tracked to get the innocent the justice they deserve. I couldn’t believe this headline I saw today…. Post Office scandal IT firm Fujitsu is Bristol council's new 'digital partner' Council chiefs have defended the £25m 'digital strategic partner' deal over five years but didn't announce it when it started a year ago.
@@susanharris5926 any promotion in post office ,is nothing to do with ability ,its a friendship promotion, when I worked a delivery new recruit broke down and cried could he could not complete his round ,4 years later he is delivery manager for Sussex area
@@rayglenister9799 my manager at cashco paid for Xmas drinks with extra money left in safe that was unaccountable,I reported this nothing was done, the three that didn't go out of 25 were laughed at by manager
She was "misled by her lawyers" and didn't sign off the prosecutions herself. ? There's a lot to unpack there. Perhaps under oath we'll find out when, where, and who knew what and when. Sounds to me like she's been advised by lawyers to blame lawyers who can't be forced to divulge what was said due to lawyer/client confidentiality. How convenient! She's entitled along with all the co-workers involved to their day in court. It can't come soon enough.
A pardon is not the answer. Pardons are granted to guilty people in exceptional circumstances - i.e. people who were rightfully prosecuted and convicted. But these people are innocent and so can't be pardoned. Some other legal mechanism will have to be introduced to formally exonerate and properly compensate the victims and, at the moment, there is nothing because when the systems for correcting miscarriages of justice were constructed, nobody ever conceived that there would be a need for it to act in favour of such a huge number of people all at once. I'm sad to say this is going to drag on for a long time yet.
Around 1999/2000 I was contracted to work with Liquidators who were winding up a well-known chain store group that was "going under". During my short contract I happened across a computer glitch at the Point of Sale programming. As I am not an IT person, I brought this to their attention - but even the "techos" couldn't (or didn't want to) figure it out, it was such a mess. It was as if payments were "lost" and not allocated to receipts... wish I could remember more and what computing system was used back then...it does make me wonder?
I think Fujitsu do do point of sale systems. There's a glitch in M@S where it says 'remove item from bag', at which point you would get help, but if you take the item out and just carry on with other items it works fine except you feel like a criminal with one item kept out of the bag, but it is still on the receipt and paid for.
@@KennethPoole-y7z I once used a self scan till recently at a very well known supermarket chain. I inserted a tenner to pay for my items....it swallowed my money and nothing happened. Luckily, it wasn't busy and the store assistant witnessed this. He had to open up the machine to get my change and told me it wasn't the first time this had happened.
Now that PAULA VENNELLS HAS SET A PRECEDENT , can all the other recipients & givers of honours, with any dodgy transactions please return them. That should empty out the honours system!
It’s never the fault of those at the top is it ?! They’ve always had the gall to blame others when they should take responsibility. But they don’t .. they take the money and lap up the prestige but not the responsibility.. never.
My Father worked for the post office all of his life. He has stories where individuals who worked on the counter and were short by a few hundred pounds and when investigated they were instantly accused of theft without any investigation of the accounts. Some managed to prove they were not guilty by finding the accounting fault. These investigators sound horrendous and sound like they were trained by the Gestapo.
I'm a lawyer in France and the idea that people can be sent to jail for £74 is quite astonishing. I know she wasn't guilty in this case but french courts are never this harsh in their sentencing
This tragic cover up saga shows how little power and representation workers have in the UK. Were there no MP voices in Parliament to stand up for these persecuted people? No. the system prevails.
@@keithmarshall8796 Thanks Keith. It's a pity then that his words weren't acted upon by the two parties That's what I mean, the system prevails to preserve the status quo. A similar thing happened here. Social security used a faulty computer system called Robodebt. Innocent people suffered the same consequences as the PO tragedy. The was an inquiry, people were paid back money, but no one swung for it.
all board members of the Post Office from time of introduction to 2019 when it was established that it was FAULTY need to be prosecuted and serve a prison term. none of this "it was not me" or " i have no knowledge", there position in the company means they got paid to be responsible and as such should be imprisoned, and it should be for the maximum time that the post master/mistress got to serve. Those innocent people got no leeway so non should be granted to them.
So she handed back her C.B.E, thats the cosmetic stuff over, now lets start on some proper compensation, recovery of funds, prosecuting Fujitsu and claiming damages, and scrutinising the actions of politicians, lawyers, and judges in and during these prosecutions.
The biggest astonishment for me is, do we always need some kind of TV drama in order to undo the injustices??? Look at the pace, since the ITV aired this drama, parliament has started discussing it with full passion for the very first time, making law (overnight) to over turn the convictions. The So called top executive is returning her CBE within 24 hours? …everything is now happening quick, quick & quick because it was dramatised. For 24 years no drama was aired, lives of the victims were constantly ridiculed, highly paid executive was being nominated for CBE, (she was happily bowing infront of her majesty to accept honour for so called great services while this ordeal was going on for ages),,,in short, days and nights both were beautiful for the entire top lot with millions of salaries….. Until someone made and aired this drama…. Does the system knows how to work ONLY when some dramatisation is aired???? Ridiculous!! System should work with same pace for every injustice, because it is not possible to dramatise each injustice.
I’m not being funny but if they were guilty there would be evidence of them having that £74k somewhere, how did they find her guilty when she wouldn’t have it in any account or spent cash to that value, everything she had could be audited to show her innocence???
That is an excellent point.....what were the police doing?...where is their oversight?...no checks and balances whatsoever....the police and cps have just turned a blind eye......they have acted criminally too.
Its not just the government thats broken. Its the civil service, the actual departments, (regulators). Criminal incompetence otherwise known as negligence
The problem was that loads of the high up post office managers knew something was wrong but no one told they should be prosecuted but that wont happen can't get justice in the uk
It is disgusting that the Post office has the power to be judge and jury. No impartiality whatsoever. Their knowledge of the problems with Horizon and their willingness to continue to prosecute and harass and bully innocent people, sending them to gaol knowing they were innocent showcases how corrupt these people in authority actually were/are. They should be held accountable and serve time in prison for their misdeeds and corruption. To use the money that the postmasters paid back when there was no shortfall and then to use it as profit and bonuses makes me wonder how these people can sleep at night. The fact they have no moral compass shows me that they should have the book thrown at them and do time. The more that comes out the more outrage I feel. I am incandescent with rage. 🤬🤬🤬🤬😡😡😡😡
This goes to show how clueless the public are left into how things work. We didn't expect any company to be able to prosecute someone. Why ever would we? The fact things can work this way is itself indicative of things going wrong. I don't think anyone would have voted for this to be the case if we were ever asked. Why isn't that kind of theoretical question asked when laws are made or privileges are granted and if it can't be answered in the positive then check with a nationwide vote. If it can be answered in the positive, and then they get it wrong, well they need to be asked why they judged public opinion that badly and made to put it right.
Japanese people are angry because the British company that Fujitsu bought created a flaw in the system and the British government is blaming the Japanese company.
Very shoddy report, don't keep showing Royal mail postboxes and Royal mail equipment. Post office counters is a completely different different company to Royal mail.
This is been going on since 2000 and vigorously so since 2010. Where was the noble and fearless fourth estate in all that time? All this faux interest seems very late - too late in this case. The PO should be stripped of the ability to prosecute. They completely ignored the statutory requirements of CPIA which directs that exculpatory material should be disclosed. They appear incapable of doing their best to right these terrible wrongs. It’s largely taken the tireless efforts of just one man, initially a voice in the wilderness before gaining traction. The decision to prosecute or take other, ruinous legal action against these sub postmasters was made by identifiable persons and aggressively pursued in a vindictive way by lawyers knowing that costs were limitless. Trebles all round!!!!! Heads should roll, without doubt.
Although she has voluntarily handed back her CBE she still needs to be stripped of it, to prevent her in the future of ever receiving another honour., except for exceptional bravery.
in canada we have simply accouting that does not work. the univerities are aware of this as they test drove it with many students proving that it does not work.
So Paula should sue the lawyers as they were in the wrong according to Paula. After all they made hundreds of millions didn’t they plus they have liability insurance, or is she passing the buck?
Private Eye magazine have been on about this for years. It's so crazy to see it suddenly, finally get the recognition it deserves. It's been one of the most depressing long-term stories in the magazine. If anyone reading this doesn't get Private Eye, you should! It costs next to nothing.
A Conservative mp James Arbuthnott was standing up in the house of commons bringing the sub postmasters scandal to light so he deserves more credit than private eye!
The government have said that it will all be sorted out by the end of the year ! 😮it’s January 11th and they know damn well that they won’t be in power at the end of the year . Fujitsu should foot the bill for their errors and our government should ensure that happens .
The fact that in order to appeal, they have to go through the very same Post Office legal department that wrongfully prosecuted them, is proving a big barrier to people in need of justice. The Post Office should play no part whatsoever in adjudicating who gets what compensation. It's like giving the mugger who robbed you a say in what property you get back!
Nice analogy.
The Post Office can act as private prosecutors - an absolute disgrace and that an organisation has this level of power. It’s disturbing.
City of London, Crown Corporation, Freemasons.
@@lw1zfog You lost me at "Freemasons" ...
@@kurtgodel5236 i wasn’t looking for you. the po-lice & the judiciary are owned & operated. now go lose yourself at ‘The Pilgrims Society’.
Yes, just absurd that they can be prosecutors, how could our politicians let that situation exist?
@@lw1zfog The RSPCA
It’s terrifying that you really *can* go to jail because the computer system didn’t work and that barely anyone will take any notice until someone makes a tv programme about it.
jeremy corbyn needs to lend his voice to this debate!!!
This is happening all the time to all sorts of decent everyday people being prosecuted for crimes they have not committed. The legal system loves a vulnerable person who can’t fight back they still get paid no matter what the outcome thousands of cases are also acquitted which means they should never have been charged a money making scam why do you think lie detectors cannot be used because too many people would lose too much money.
@@normankennith7919. Keep him out it. He only has a 2 “O” level legal brain. The sub masters are toast if he gets involved.
@@normankennith7919 Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t seem to have any interest in people who live, work and adhere to the laws, customs and traditions of this country. Anyone who falls outside of that however has his full, undivided attention.
you mean he has no interest in the british sheep & lemmings of which there are many?
without jezza persuading gerry adams to involve the ira in talks, the good friday agreement would never have happened!!
despite what the daily mail, sun & jewish chronicle might say, corbyn has always called for peace talks between israel & palestine for well over 45 years! now many people agree with him! he also warned of the danger of uk's illegal war involvement in the middle east in iraq, afghanistan, syria & libya, where many innocent lives were lost, including those of british soldiers, as well as some who returned home minus their limbs!
jeremy has recently called for a stop to the israeli massacre of palestinian civilians in gaza & for peace talks between russia & ukraine!!
jeremy's only crime is that he is a peace monger! are you a warmonger &/or are you jewish?
capiche?@@CHuzz7777
Too little too late for these people.Their plight known for years but only publicised after the tv drama.Shame on the media and authorities.
Seema should be given a multi million pound reparation pay! Jailing an innocent pregnant woman is a total disgrace!
So, if the money was not missing but the sub-postmasters paid the money so they would not be prosecuted, who got the "missing" money? we need to investigate that.
That was already raised in parliament - it was suggested PO got profits and bonuses went in part to PO staff!
We are now hearing that post office 'investigators' (and debt recovery teams?) where getting 40% of any money they managed to get out of people as a bonus and incentive, so they got a lot of it.
It went to profits for the PO
What about the judges? Sentencing a 19 year old to a maximum security prison!
Here is the thing, apart from all the other aspects of this affair the role of Lord Neuberger in the Recusal seems to have escaped attention.
I have therefore pasted the following ‘The role of Lord Neuberger in the recusal fiasco (Justice Fraser) should be investigated’ on as many TH-cam articles as I could, about ten, but when I checked to see if there was any response I discovered they had all been taken down.
This Kafkaesque episode staggers one at every turn, even when Big brother has been outed he seems to be still working away!
I really want to know why Lord Neuberger interfered , if the recusal had succeeded the whole noble attempt at taking on the stinking system would have failed.
It doesn't matter wether she signed off in the prosecutions or not, she KNEW the system was faulty, as soon as the first instance came to light SHE should have ordered a complete review by IT specialist's , had she done so this whole sorry charade would never have happened... So YES she most DEFINETLY should give the gong back
It’s only a gong , and apparently she has. The Post Office is owned by the taxpayer, and this government have had 14 years to sort this matter out. Cameron, May, Johnson , Truss, Sunak……what have they been doing apart from ruining this country and turning it into a prison island.
She has, now, although it’s disfigured by grated teeth marks.
Give the gong back.
Needs a jail sentence
They took my unkles house his supermarket his pension his reputation.
Wife had a breakdown and he killed himself.
Are you serious.
The Blair government was in power when the scandal started in 1999. Crozier was ceo from 2003 when the scandal was gaining momentum. Starmer was head of the cps when they prosecuted some sub postmasters. So they should all be in court.
Also hand back the bonuses for the above.
The only reason the Witch Vennels has said she'll give back her CBE is because she's trying, hoping to avoid prosecution
All those poor people, lives ruined and communities thrown aside 😢
With the help of the times and others.....
As a foreigner, what I do not understand how nobody questioned the sudden corruption of previously honest employees. Common sense seems to have flown out the window.
suddenly there were hundreds of post masters fiddling like mad...no alarm bells ringing??
it seems that the Post office knew due to how the software works, it registers keystrokes and the post office knew that sharing information would damage its reputation so hid the evidence, this was highlighted in court
Yup and this is England. Its always been a highly dysfunctional place.
Common sense is a rarity.
The reason nobody questioned it was because they knew it was the horizon system but chose the easier route of shutting down any questioning, dissent and protest by bullying and blaming those with the problem and financially ruining them. Rather than fixing the Fujitsu system at the root of the problem, which would have been way more expensive. Truely corporate culture at its evil zenith in the UK at this point led by a woman of the cloth. You can’t make this 💩 up. Britain has regressed so far under the neocon boot.
She should be sent to prison under her watch innocent people where sent to prison they should also take her wealth of her and give it to the post office people who went to prison. Why do these people never go to prison including Ed Davey who has gone quiet for some reason he’s usually mouthing of on the tv not right now
Wasnt she supposed to be in the church of England, yet she knew this was wrong as so did the staff , yet she did nothing. They need to jail her and kick out of the church
You don't need to be a Christian to have a sense of moral responsibility. Sadly, those who call themselves "Christians" seem to think they have a monopoly on it !
As well as compensation, heads must roll. The PO knew there was a problem and did f. all except pursue innocent people.
They found out the software was at fault many years ago after literally causing hundreds of people to lose their livelihood, their liberty and in some cases their lives. It was subsequently found that when the error was discovered the post office did nothing and continued to persecute staff. None of the managers and executives involved were ever thoroughly investigated for this egregious miscarriage of justice. This should have been sorted out the moment they were literally forced to own up to their error and everyone exonerated instead of letting this fester for so many years.
A friend of ours took her life in dense woodland..... she was told she was the only one.
When is Vennels going to jail ? Perjury contempt of court withholding information. What a deceitful wretch !
Vennells handing her CBE back is NOT the end of the issue!!
She has blood on her hands. People are dead because of her. She should be in prison.
It's just one scandal after another in this country. People have just become more disgusting than ever.
Seeds of greed sown by Thatcher
@@adamwallace8769So it must be Blair to blame as he was in 10 downing Street at the start of this scandal in 1999! Crozier was CEO from 2003 till 2010. Starmer was head of the CPS when they prosecuted some sub postmasters. But yes blame Thatcher. Jeez.
Those in the Post Office and Fujitsu who sort to prevent the truth about being presented in court should be prosecuted for fraud.
Seems like nothing changes in the UK when it comes to justice and a branch of the government.
Why did it take a tv show to expose this, where is the accountability in government? Why are ministers only interest now it’s in the public? They didn’t care before the show aired?
Not a single person involved from the Royal Mail will be prosecuted for what they did to these innocent people. It didn't just destroy the lives of the postmasters but also their families. Whatever money they receive in competition is not enough.
Is she the woman who was bounced around other jobs within the civil service and caused chaos where ever she went?
Why was it not obvious that it was impossible for 900 postmasters to have their hands in the till .
I worked as a top-notch software developer for over 20 years. Many of those were in the City, where I was very handsomely remunerated for my services. But, brilliant as a lot of my work was, I knew damn well that when I produced a new system there were initially likely to be bugs in it. If there were none, I was very surprised. The DEFAULT assumption when you release a new system is ALWAYS that it will have bugs!
No ifs, no buts, no maybes. When accounting discrepancies appeared those in charge at the Post Office should have immediately assumed there were problems with Horizon. Instead they accused 900 innocent people of fraud. For the pain and harm that was needless and recklessly done to these innocent people, those in charge at the Post Office at the time should go to jail!
What do you mean by bugs when yous released the system? Like who put them there? Or are you talking about a poor design?
I DISAGREE, MANY SYSTEMS SUCH AS MEDICAL SYSTEMS ARE OPERATIONALLY CERTIFIED BEFORE RELEASE TO THE PUBLIC. THIS SEEMS TO BE A PROBLEM WITH SPECIFIC ORGANISATIONS.
@@GWills-ys6rd Certifying doesn't mean all the bugs have been found. All it means is that a prescribed testing scheme is claimed to have been carried out: which may or may not be the case. People carry out testing, and they can lie and/or be lazy.
@@outoforbit00 You obviously have no understanding of software development. Don't try to be clever about what you don't understand.
@@DavidGetling no I don't, that is why I'm asking. And I wasn't trying to be clever. As you haven't answered my questions, I'll just assume I asked fair questions.
They cannot pay it BACK if they never stole it in the first place!
They were extorted by crooks and scammers!
{:o:O:}
Correct. The PO behaved no better than the scam centres. Those responsible need to face trial.
And they are called the wealthy. All scumbags the lot of them that don't want to admit their mistakes. Pharmaceuticals, Natwest, post office and governments etc, they all tread on the working class and will never admit to their bullsh-t cockups
These are everyday hard working people. People with individual feelings, families and their own individual stories. All ignored for years and even now that they are getting something back, it’s like the government have dived into the bins and dragged out some scrap as a sorry!
These people’s lives have been utterly, utterly ruined. Their friends and family have doubted them, they have doubted themselves, they’ve lost money, lost sleep, worried, considered suicide, and no doubt suffered from stress related illnesses. All the while the perpetrators have suffered nothing and those high in power have been congratulated.
This is an evil state of affairs that those in the wrong should get off with a fraction of what the accused have suffered.
People have GONE TO PRISON FFS for being wrongly accused.
It is incomprehensibly disgusting that some of these payouts are so incredibly disproportionate to the long lasting and irreversible damage that has been done!
This is an absolute scandal
The television drama is doing a lot of good. I hope things are going to be fast tracked to get the innocent the justice they deserve. I couldn’t believe this headline I saw today…. Post Office scandal IT firm Fujitsu is Bristol council's new 'digital partner'
Council chiefs have defended the £25m 'digital strategic partner' deal over five years but didn't announce it when it started a year ago.
it's the polar opposite of the old adage "no good deed goes unpunished".
Some one from the Post office needs to go to prison !!!!!!!
If Horizon detected shortfalls,can anyone tell me where is all the shortfall money? It has to exist somewhere.
NOW'S THE QUESTION:
'WERE THEY JAILED TO SHUT THEM UP IN ORDER TO STIFLE THE TRUTH?'
Now I know why we have the C word. She sure is one.
Anyone who worked in the post office in any position knows exactly why this happened
Pray tell.
@@susanharris5926 any promotion in post office ,is nothing to do with ability ,its a friendship promotion, when I worked a delivery new recruit broke down and cried could he could not complete his round ,4 years later he is delivery manager for Sussex area
Would like to hear about it. Any references?
@@rayglenister9799 my manager at cashco paid for Xmas drinks with extra money left in safe that was unaccountable,I reported this nothing was done, the three that didn't go out of 25 were laughed at by manager
@@rayglenister9799 yes but you tube won't allow it seems
Also note, the complete failure of our justice system. Our wonderful justice system that they are always telling us about
so much for the so-called 'rules-based society'
She was "misled by her lawyers" and didn't sign off the prosecutions herself. ?
There's a lot to unpack there.
Perhaps under oath we'll find out when, where, and who knew what and when.
Sounds to me like she's been advised by lawyers to blame lawyers who can't be forced to divulge what was said due to lawyer/client confidentiality. How convenient!
She's entitled along with all the co-workers involved to their day in court. It can't come soon enough.
This poor excuse for a woman should become in prison
An example of capitulating to an early version of A.I.
This can only end with a royal pardon and or imprisonment for Vennels who needs stripping of CBE and excommunication from the Church of England !
A pardon is not the answer. Pardons are granted to guilty people in exceptional circumstances - i.e. people who were rightfully prosecuted and convicted. But these people are innocent and so can't be pardoned. Some other legal mechanism will have to be introduced to formally exonerate and properly compensate the victims and, at the moment, there is nothing because when the systems for correcting miscarriages of justice were constructed, nobody ever conceived that there would be a need for it to act in favour of such a huge number of people all at once. I'm sad to say this is going to drag on for a long time yet.
Around 1999/2000 I was contracted to work with Liquidators who were winding up a well-known chain store group that was "going under". During my short contract I happened across a computer glitch at the Point of Sale programming. As I am not an IT person, I brought this to their attention - but even the "techos" couldn't (or didn't want to) figure it out, it was such a mess. It was as if payments were "lost" and not allocated to receipts... wish I could remember more and what computing system was used back then...it does make me wonder?
I think Fujitsu do do point of sale systems. There's a glitch in M@S where it says 'remove item from bag', at which point you would get help, but if you take the item out and just carry on with other items it works fine except you feel like a criminal with one item kept out of the bag, but it is still on the receipt and paid for.
@@KennethPoole-y7z I once used a self scan till recently at a very well known supermarket chain. I inserted a tenner to pay for my items....it swallowed my money and nothing happened. Luckily, it wasn't busy and the store assistant witnessed this. He had to open up the machine to get my change and told me it wasn't the first time this had happened.
Michael Keagan, husband of Conservative MP Gillian Keagan Conservative MP was CEO of Fujitsu UK for the 20 years of the Horizon Scandal ....
James Arbuthnott tory mp stood up in Parliament for sub postmasters when no labour mp did.
Paula Vennells to return CBE - I hope she’s not going to post it via Royal Mail
What you trying to say, that a postsperson will be telling all his customers that he's got an CBE.
Now that PAULA VENNELLS HAS SET A PRECEDENT , can all the other recipients & givers of honours, with any dodgy transactions please return them. That should empty out the honours system!
She’s given back her CBE but not her huge bonuses
There's so much injustice in our democracies.😢
So called democracy.
@@bobbymozza Yes, democracies are no guarantee for automatically high standards for justice and human rights, which is deplorable.
@@MendeMaria-ej8bf All will change once you leave the ECHR.
@@kurtgodel5236 ECHR = ?
What was the conviction rate of sub masters for the 20 years prior to the introduction of the Horizon system ?
It’s never the fault of those at the top is it ?! They’ve always had the gall to blame others when they should take responsibility. But they don’t .. they take the money and lap up the prestige but not the responsibility.. never.
We value our employees, but we value our IT, our jobs, and our pay even more.
Why keep showing pictures of letters going through machines, that is royal mail, not post office. Two separate companies.
My Father worked for the post office all of his life. He has stories where individuals who worked on the counter and were short by a few hundred pounds and when investigated they were instantly accused of theft without any investigation of the accounts. Some managed to prove they were not guilty by finding the accounting fault. These investigators sound horrendous and sound like they were trained by the Gestapo.
I'm a lawyer in France and the idea that people can be sent to jail for £74 is quite astonishing. I know she wasn't guilty in this case but french courts are never this harsh in their sentencing
DISGUSTING.This system drove my father out of his job. He knew it wasn’t right and retired in 2001.
A total cover up.! 😢
This tragic cover up saga shows how little power and representation workers have in the UK. Were there no MP voices in Parliament to stand up for these persecuted people? No. the system prevails.
James Arbuthnott tory mp was championing the sub postmasters case in Parliament long before others.
@@keithmarshall8796 Thanks Keith. It's a pity then that his words weren't acted upon by the two parties
That's what I mean, the system prevails to preserve the status quo. A similar thing happened here.
Social security used a faulty computer system called Robodebt. Innocent people suffered the same consequences as the PO tragedy. The was an inquiry, people were paid back money, but no one swung for it.
Parliament just expunged all convictions in England, Wales, and NI.
Send them all to jail!
How much money was spent pursuing those innocent people in court?
More than it would have cost to fix the damn bugs in the system?
What a scandalous situation. What is wrong with Britain that it is so careless…..
What did Venell’s do to support her staff and stop the prosecutions?
Crooks everyone.
all board members of the Post Office from time of introduction to 2019 when it was established that it was FAULTY need to be prosecuted and serve a prison term.
none of this "it was not me" or " i have no knowledge", there position in the company means they got paid to be responsible and as such should be imprisoned,
and it should be for the maximum time that the post master/mistress got to serve. Those innocent people got no leeway so non should be granted to them.
Terrible background noises.
You should watch what you eat.
@@rayglenister9799 I do. You too? However, I shouldn't watch these videos anymore and unsubscribe.
So she handed back her C.B.E, thats the cosmetic stuff over, now lets start on some proper compensation, recovery of funds, prosecuting Fujitsu and claiming damages, and scrutinising the actions of politicians, lawyers, and judges in and during these prosecutions.
The biggest astonishment for me is, do we always need some kind of TV drama in order to undo the injustices???
Look at the pace, since the ITV aired this drama, parliament has started discussing it with full passion for the very first time, making law (overnight) to over turn the convictions. The So called top executive is returning her CBE within 24 hours? …everything is now happening quick, quick & quick because it was dramatised.
For 24 years no drama was aired, lives of the victims were constantly ridiculed, highly paid executive was being nominated for CBE, (she was happily bowing infront of her majesty to accept honour for so called great services while this ordeal was going on for ages),,,in short, days and nights both were beautiful for the entire top lot with millions of salaries….. Until someone made and aired this drama….
Does the system knows how to work ONLY when some dramatisation is aired???? Ridiculous!!
System should work with same pace for every injustice, because it is not possible to dramatise each injustice.
No remorse or shame. Awful!
I’m not being funny but if they were guilty there would be evidence of them having that £74k somewhere, how did they find her guilty when she wouldn’t have it in any account or spent cash to that value, everything she had could be audited to show her innocence???
You're making too much sense, like you said there surely would be a paper trail of the "stolen funds" I'd they were truly guilty
That is an excellent point.....what were the police doing?...where is their oversight?...no checks and balances whatsoever....the police and cps have just turned a blind eye......they have acted criminally too.
This is helpful, I watched several other videos and had no idea what this was about.
PO executives must be jailed - MPs too.
Its not just the government thats broken. Its the civil service, the actual departments, (regulators). Criminal incompetence otherwise known as negligence
The post office is a state owned private company. It is not a government department and no one who works for it is a civil servant.
Did I just hear you say this was the biggest miscarriage of justice in the country's history? No, I couldn’t have head that correctly.
The problem was that loads of the high up post office managers knew something was wrong but no one told they should be prosecuted but that wont happen can't get justice in the uk
Wait until you start unpicking the Loan Charge, covering up years of HMRC ineptitude. 10 suicides to date 😢
ROYAL MAIL CROWN COURT...WHERE IS CHARLES?
She's an disgrace..shame her and get her into court...a nice time in prison will do her good.
Disaster , the people convicted need apology and compensation where appropriate
“ YEA AND ALL THOSE INVOLVED. FOR THIS DISCRACEFUL ACT. TRIED THAN LIFE IN JAIL”
Disgusting.
It is disgusting that the Post office has the power to be judge and jury. No impartiality whatsoever. Their knowledge of the problems with Horizon and their willingness to continue to prosecute and harass and bully innocent people, sending them to gaol knowing they were innocent showcases how corrupt these people in authority actually were/are. They should be held accountable and serve time in prison for their misdeeds and corruption. To use the money that the postmasters paid back when there was no shortfall and then to use it as profit and bonuses makes me wonder how these people can sleep at night. The fact they have no moral compass shows me that they should have the book thrown at them and do time. The more that comes out the more outrage I feel. I am incandescent with rage. 🤬🤬🤬🤬😡😡😡😡
This goes to show how clueless the public are left into how things work. We didn't expect any company to be able to prosecute someone. Why ever would we? The fact things can work this way is itself indicative of things going wrong. I don't think anyone would have voted for this to be the case if we were ever asked. Why isn't that kind of theoretical question asked when laws are made or privileges are granted and if it can't be answered in the positive then check with a nationwide vote. If it can be answered in the positive, and then they get it wrong, well they need to be asked why they judged public opinion that badly and made to put it right.
That came to a sudden end!
Japanese people are angry because the British company that Fujitsu bought created a flaw in the system and the British government is blaming the Japanese company.
how comes the judiciary didnt notice anything wrong? with Soooooooooooooooooooooooo many convictions all for the same offences?
This is literally kafkaesque
Nothing compared to the iPP prisoners scandal
Very shoddy report, don't keep showing Royal mail postboxes and Royal mail equipment. Post office counters is a completely different different company to Royal mail.
600 thousand is no where near enough to compensate these poor people that minister who lost her mbe needs locking up shame on you all!!!!!
This is been going on since 2000 and vigorously so since 2010. Where was the noble and fearless fourth estate in all that time? All this faux interest seems very late - too late in this case.
The PO should be stripped of the ability to prosecute. They completely ignored the statutory requirements of CPIA which directs that exculpatory material should be disclosed. They appear incapable of doing their best to right these terrible wrongs.
It’s largely taken the tireless efforts of just one man, initially a voice in the wilderness before gaining traction. The decision to prosecute or take other, ruinous legal action against these sub postmasters was made by identifiable persons and aggressively pursued in a vindictive way by lawyers knowing that costs were limitless. Trebles all round!!!!!
Heads should roll, without doubt.
That Vennels woman needs to return all the millions back too .
Bates is not the star of the drama but the central character
Sheesh
Although she has voluntarily handed back her CBE she still needs to be stripped of it, to prevent her in the future of ever receiving another honour., except for exceptional bravery.
Seems the same as the social payment in the Netherlans
😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢 THE WORST AND SADDEST THING IVE KNOWN.ALL THESE INNOCENT PEOPLE SUFFERING FOR A DECADE 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
in canada we have simply accouting that does not work. the univerities are aware of this as they test drove it with many students proving that it does not work.
Weird how the Times is jumping all over this now. No fuss made in the past 20 or so years.
So Paula should sue the lawyers as they were in the wrong according to Paula. After all they made hundreds of millions didn’t they plus they have liability insurance, or is she passing the buck?
She should be put in prison
Dont be nieve enough to even consider that Vennells had no knowledge of any of this
Vennals has handed her OBE back before she was stripped of it.
Vennells and some of her cronies definitely need to go to jail, because they sent others who were innocent to jail.
Private Eye magazine have been on about this for years. It's so crazy to see it suddenly, finally get the recognition it deserves. It's been one of the most depressing long-term stories in the magazine. If anyone reading this doesn't get Private Eye, you should! It costs next to nothing.
A Conservative mp James Arbuthnott was standing up in the house of commons bringing the sub postmasters scandal to light so he deserves more credit than private eye!
The government have said that it will all be sorted out by the end of the year ! 😮it’s January 11th and they know damn well that they won’t be in power at the end of the year . Fujitsu should foot the bill for their errors and our government should ensure that happens .
But their acts of parliament will be as they've already said they are bringing in laws to expedite this.
@@keithmarshall8796 What’s another few months ? , they’ve waited 20 odd years . 13 of which the torries have been on watch and done nothing for them .