Justin is the man who taught me about the Marauder BA hanging off a flying spider; having an Orion and Zeus to accent that is how I learned about critical mass at a foundational level. Thanks for all you do.
Love this concept. I totally agree with your approach to finding the right balance too - I've had the lack of a "tentpole" hurt me a time or two in tournaments, while the lack of speedy units, or not enough "activations," saw me lose to more agile opponents who could better control the battlefield. It's tough to find the right balance -- and I've found the the rules systems differences really make a big difference. WolfNet 350 being much simpler plays way different than BTCC rules for Alpha Strike tournaments!
Fun fact: In RTS games "critical mass" refers to reaching a certain number of a unit type which, upon reaching, increases their efficiency drastically. Like going from 4 to 5 of the same unit increasing their overall effective damage by 50% instead of 25%, usually due to damage stacking.
there is a significant difference with the type of game being played. a 'one-off' game plays very different because there are no consequences. a tournament game has it's own stress. a campaign mission is loaded with consequences. while your points are valid, it also matters which method of play is being used.
@@bruced648 I’d say it also applies in campaign too, if you cannot bring the resources you need for a mission (especially as mercs) may be best to lick wounds and break contract. Not going to do you any good if you bring a giant tent pole to a campaign game and get swarmed lol. Though depending on the mission, last stand type stuff, that might be what you have to do.
Being overwhelmed by sheer numbers is something a good Clan player should always keep in mind. Those fast little units may not do much, but they add up if they are continually in your back arcs. I try to keep a good balance of units and aim for a couple of "killers" and then fill in with supporting units. One of my favorite mechs in my ilClan Wolf Empire units is the Conjurer and Conjurer 3. I think they are solid units and one or both has been in every single one of my AS games. One has even gained a nickname. Soon I want to try out a force built around a Blood Asp T and another around the Alpha Wolf A. Curious as to how they would perform.
Some of the best feedback I got from 40k events was where I just let players play kill missions and objective missions at the same time, with the scoring weighted slightly towards objectives, wonder if that would work in BT as well?
I'm always trying to reflect on what I did wrong. I focused more of damage in southern assault and performed better than I did at NOVA. I think one of the biggest issues is monitoring your firing lanes....or more importantly, your opponents firing lanes. You can have the best list imaginable but if you arent making consistently good choices in the game, it's not going to get a chance to perform up to its potential. Also sometimes the dice gods are fickle and it doesn't matter what you do. It can be hard to keep perspective on the 5th round of the 3rd game of not rolling above the statistical average
"Fuzzy Wuzzy Fallacy" (an article about the Steve Jackson Games classic Ogre) kinda applies in this case for the quantity aspect. Replace a dozen GEV's with Savannah Masters, and you'll give someone a coronary on the tabletop. 🤣 While I don't do that, I do enjoy taking a couple platoons of tanks, LRM carriers, and hover vehicles with my mechs to keep that Critical Mass in Alpha Strike. I think that is one where area where Alpha Strike shines in allowing a satisfying study of this subject in a single session.
Something else to consider for the quality vs quantity destruction game: Battletech involves lucky hits that can disable or destroy a unit. If the quantity side gets a lucky shot early in the game, the battle snowballs quickly in quantity's favor. If the quality side gets lucky shots those units were probably going to be destroyed anyway. A tangent regarding the Picard quote: TLDR players should not rush to the conclusion that bad die rolls are why they lost the game. When players reflect on losses, I hear dice being blamed in many cases. Sure, players will have an off game that is definitely the case. If that is consistently a complaint it may be time to either ignore that assertion and reflect on other factors or take a look at what you need to hit. If your easiest to hit is a 9 all game, that's not a good shot. there may be force building to consider (better gunnery skills) or maybe poor target priority (taking a shot where a player needs a 10 rather than a 7). Dice can roll badly, but you have to give your dice a chance to work. 5 and 6 are likely hits 9 and 10 are not.
Nothing but Herzer. Embrace Perun, the Hetzer of the Lake. More seriously this is why most formats have a maximum number of units and you should usually use all of it.
There is certainly a balance between quality and quantity. I've seen more players, at least in Classic Battletech, get into trouble with specialized forces. Often, specialized forces will do well against many forces but almost completely fall apart against certain forces. A good example is a C3/TAG combo unit and semi-guided LRMs on another unit, usually from LRM carriers; Against speedy units with ECM, this force selection generally does poorly.
@@andnorr7738 yup! Sometimes you need a scalpel but more often than not the multi tool might be a better well rounded tool to carry around so to speak.
Justin is the man who taught me about the Marauder BA hanging off a flying spider; having an Orion and Zeus to accent that is how I learned about critical mass at a foundational level. Thanks for all you do.
Quantity has a quality of its own.
Love this concept. I totally agree with your approach to finding the right balance too - I've had the lack of a "tentpole" hurt me a time or two in tournaments, while the lack of speedy units, or not enough "activations," saw me lose to more agile opponents who could better control the battlefield. It's tough to find the right balance -- and I've found the the rules systems differences really make a big difference. WolfNet 350 being much simpler plays way different than BTCC rules for Alpha Strike tournaments!
Fun fact: In RTS games "critical mass" refers to reaching a certain number of a unit type which, upon reaching, increases their efficiency drastically. Like going from 4 to 5 of the same unit increasing their overall effective damage by 50% instead of 25%, usually due to damage stacking.
there is a significant difference with the type of game being played.
a 'one-off' game plays very different because there are no consequences.
a tournament game has it's own stress.
a campaign mission is loaded with consequences.
while your points are valid, it also matters which method of play is being used.
@@bruced648 I’d say it also applies in campaign too, if you cannot bring the resources you need for a mission (especially as mercs) may be best to lick wounds and break contract. Not going to do you any good if you bring a giant tent pole to a campaign game and get swarmed lol. Though depending on the mission, last stand type stuff, that might be what you have to do.
Being overwhelmed by sheer numbers is something a good Clan player should always keep in mind. Those fast little units may not do much, but they add up if they are continually in your back arcs. I try to keep a good balance of units and aim for a couple of "killers" and then fill in with supporting units. One of my favorite mechs in my ilClan Wolf Empire units is the Conjurer and Conjurer 3. I think they are solid units and one or both has been in every single one of my AS games. One has even gained a nickname. Soon I want to try out a force built around a Blood Asp T and another around the Alpha Wolf A. Curious as to how they would perform.
Very good advice
Some of the best feedback I got from 40k events was where I just let players play kill missions and objective missions at the same time, with the scoring weighted slightly towards objectives, wonder if that would work in BT as well?
I'm always trying to reflect on what I did wrong. I focused more of damage in southern assault and performed better than I did at NOVA. I think one of the biggest issues is monitoring your firing lanes....or more importantly, your opponents firing lanes. You can have the best list imaginable but if you arent making consistently good choices in the game, it's not going to get a chance to perform up to its potential.
Also sometimes the dice gods are fickle and it doesn't matter what you do. It can be hard to keep perspective on the 5th round of the 3rd game of not rolling above the statistical average
"Fuzzy Wuzzy Fallacy" (an article about the Steve Jackson Games classic Ogre) kinda applies in this case for the quantity aspect. Replace a dozen GEV's with Savannah Masters, and you'll give someone a coronary on the tabletop. 🤣 While I don't do that, I do enjoy taking a couple platoons of tanks, LRM carriers, and hover vehicles with my mechs to keep that Critical Mass in Alpha Strike. I think that is one where area where Alpha Strike shines in allowing a satisfying study of this subject in a single session.
Very good talk on general force comp. Well done, thank you for sharing 😊
Something else to consider for the quality vs quantity destruction game: Battletech involves lucky hits that can disable or destroy a unit. If the quantity side gets a lucky shot early in the game, the battle snowballs quickly in quantity's favor. If the quality side gets lucky shots those units were probably going to be destroyed anyway.
A tangent regarding the Picard quote:
TLDR players should not rush to the conclusion that bad die rolls are why they lost the game.
When players reflect on losses, I hear dice being blamed in many cases. Sure, players will have an off game that is definitely the case. If that is consistently a complaint it may be time to either ignore that assertion and reflect on other factors or take a look at what you need to hit. If your easiest to hit is a 9 all game, that's not a good shot. there may be force building to consider (better gunnery skills) or maybe poor target priority (taking a shot where a player needs a 10 rather than a 7). Dice can roll badly, but you have to give your dice a chance to work. 5 and 6 are likely hits 9 and 10 are not.
Thank you for these strategy talks!!!
Nothing but Herzer. Embrace Perun, the Hetzer of the Lake.
More seriously this is why most formats have a maximum number of units and you should usually use all of it.
At NOVA my event has a max number of units you are allowed to bring :)
@@Thearmedpainter unfortunately for me that max is 0 as it's outside of my travel radius for gaming at this time 😁
What is your opinion on the Soarece tank? Seems like a typical "tentpole armored bully" in the Late Succession Wars, based on this analysis. Nice!
There is certainly a balance between quality and quantity. I've seen more players, at least in Classic Battletech, get into trouble with specialized forces. Often, specialized forces will do well against many forces but almost completely fall apart against certain forces.
A good example is a C3/TAG combo unit and semi-guided LRMs on another unit, usually from LRM carriers; Against speedy units with ECM, this force selection generally does poorly.
@@andnorr7738 yup! Sometimes you need a scalpel but more often than not the multi tool might be a better well rounded tool to carry around so to speak.
As much as I like the Picard quote, I don’t want people to be too defeatist too quickly. There’s almost always something to learn from a game.
The German tank quality myth is still in full force 😢