4:50 I want to clear something up since so many people seem to misinterpret this sentence and then leave a comment before watching the rest of the video. I say "You literally see the Knight with the Pale King in the same room" while showing the Abyss cutscene. I am not saying that the Knight is standing right next to the Pale King. The Vessel next to the Pale King is the Hollow Knight. But the Knight is still "in the same room", it's the Vessel hanging off the ledge. In other words, both characters are in the same place at the same time. At 28:53 in the video, I go more in depth about this issue, so please watch that section to get a better idea of how I interpret this scene.
I just want to say this while I can: Matpats defence of "ItS JuSt a ThEoRy!1!" does NOT justify the existence of some of his more poorly made theories! When you start to promote an easily disproven theory to a large, impressionable audience that is mostly comprised of young children, you are spreading misinformation! I still mostly like Game Theory, and he did pin a comment of someone completely debunking him in this Hollow Knight video, but his cringy attempts to be funny, deflective initial response to criticism, and lack of care for the franchises he sometimes covers can get VERY grating.
Idk why Matpat went the lore theory route for Hollow Knight. Hollow Knight has extensive lore that's already well understood and just about fully excavated, so literally any theory he put out would have to make some leaps and ignore some points. That's sort of the issue with his format. When the fans ask you for a video about a game that already has deep lore and a community surrounding it, there ain't much room for fan theories. If I were Matpat and were asked to make a Hollow Knight video, I'd try to something more related to entomology or soil science. Maybe try to frame the Radiance plague as a real life parasitic infection that controls insect minds. There's a lot to work with tangentially related to Hollow Knight, but not much further you can take the lore of the game itself. Matpat's best episodes are the ones where he uses elements from the game he's discussing to teach you actual science. Teaching mendelian genetics by speculating about who Rosalina's parents are. Discussing the ecological implications of the Bee movie. Explaining the stages of grief using Majora's Mask. Those are the Game Theory episodes I remember.
I agree. Just look at his recent Kirby videos. His first one was a bit more about story and lore, which got such huge backlash that he canceled the part 2 and instead made a video relating to the science of how Kirby flies. So he knows the science-y videos are less controversial. I get that he's just trying to do his own thing, but it's a little disheartening when his video seems to ignore all of the research this community has put into understanding this game. It wouldn't even take that much work. Just watching my videos would have been enough to show him a few serious flaws in his theory. But now that you mention it, a video connecting Hollow Knight back to the real-life entomology that might have inspired it sounds really interesting. Maybe I'll just make it. Also, your content is great! It's nice to see you here! Also also, I saw you in the comments section of a ska video, and that made you 100 times cooler in my book.
@@mossbag69 haha, if there's three things I can't get enough of, it's entomology, ska music, and youtube videos. Hit me up on twitter if you want any help with that entomology video!
th-cam.com/video/zKDijIVqSxo/w-d-xo.html this video from superforge is a great example of making a fan theory outside lore discussion, and what ideally could have been MatPat's theory
@@TierZoo I keep thinking you can't get cooler, and then I find you making well-thought out comments on all sorts of interesting videos throughout TH-cam. You just keep bringing positivity wherever you go, and it makes me feel better about this site. Don't stop rocking anytime soon. :)
This has to be true due to the fact that there isn’t enough evidence to prove it wrong, and that it sort of makes sense if you ignore all evidence against it (which matpat would never do)
thank you, everyone just assumes the character we play as is not elderbug. if you look at the big picture, you can see that when the character is in dirtmouth, not moving, so is elderbug. that proves elderbug is the character we play as.
@@rosedoingallofyourdares9524 usually is a loose word here genetics don’t work like that if two parents have blue eyes their kid is going to have blue eyes (unless the milkman). Do you see where I’m going with this.
@@yeetmcyeetalot5979 That's not how genetics work either. Just because both parents have blue eyes doesn't mean the child will have blue eyes, neccecarily.
Icey Boss The character you play as in the game isn’t the Hollow Knight. That’s the character we see who’s leaving with the Pale King. We play the one hanging off the ledge, he’s just known as The Knight.
@@wyleeecolee215 seriously? She can't be void, she didn't come from the Abyss; Hera hid her away to keep the Pale King from yeeting her ass into the Abyss and killing her. There is a secret nursery near Hera's lair where Hornet was raised.
@@wildfire9280I apologize in advance for the wildly inappropriate response I'm about to give to this comment. He "got up" to "do" the White Lady "in person" if you know what I mean 😏
I like how this video is titled “episode 26” and you have exactly 26 videos. Which means the shitpost Cuphead lore video is on equal standing with your scripted nearly hour long essays...
Worse yet, sonic gets mail. I say "worse" because its being downgraded to a regular episode, it should really be considered above all the other videos.
The reason why the npc in the palace are bowing to you is because they mistake you with the hollow knight. At this point the hollow knight is known to be the sacrifice for hollownest and they also see it as an royale cause it chills with the king also probably knowing that it's the the kings child. The knight's appearance comes the closest to the hollow knight among all the children we have seen.
This was always my assumption. They don't seem to be fully real, they don't have physical bodies, so I think they're like a projection of the Pale King's will and hope for the Hollow Knight.
No, you are absolutely wrong!! Pale king is father of Invincible Fearless Sensual Mysterious Enchanting Vigorous Diligent Overwhelming Gorgeous Passionate Terrifying Beautiful Powerful Grey Prince Zote! He is talking about his father at some part of game! He wants to be noticed by him!!!! I *CAN'T BELIEVE* you didnt see that LMAO :DD
Guys, its obviously Leg Eater. After you buy all of his charms, have them converted to unbreakable charms, and dream nail him 666 times while wearing the Defenders Crest, he starts floating and glowing, infodumps lore onto you, and grows crown like spikes from his head. Then it unlocks the secret ending where he shows up and eats the Radiances legs.
You underestimate the power of Invincible, Fearless, Sensual, Mysterious, Enchanting, Vigorous, Diligent, Overwhelming, Gorgeous, Passionate, Terrifying, Beautiful, Powerful, Grey Prince Zote.
I think it's more interesting to see the Knight as a reborn Pale King in a less literal sense. The Knight continues the King's mission and succeeds where he failed. They become the new king, they fight the Radiance, and they bring peace to the kingdom. It's more interesting to me to see the story as a child surpassing their father. The Knight to me has always been compelling because I see them as unremarkable for a vessel. They weren't somehow the chosen one. The Hollow Knight was, and being groomed for their role is exactly what made them unfit to fulfill it. The Knight instead is special only because they are the one that succeeded. The Pale King failed. His story is over.
To me is pretty naive and almost cute that MatPat says "Yoi can't just be another failed experiment" when the game heavily implies that yes, you fell down the pit of the Birthplace and so are, in the Pale King's eyes just another failure. It's almost like he demands that all game protagonists are also the main hero, which HK blows away with the Memorial to the Hollow Knight, which gives to the classical "We were never THE hollow knight" moment. Truly beautiful, and one of the few moments which remained true in the game: you have to earn the King's brand, and even then you never get put on a pedestal by "commoners" like Elderbug. Only Hornet knows and still treats you... well, like a slightly irritable older sister :,,) It's the complete opposite of the "Chosen One" troupe because someone else got that role, and is so rare people who escape into media give the protagonist status for granted when in reality stripping them of their "golden aura" makes them much more relatable, human and their feats even greater, like an underdog that won despite having been dealt a bad set of cards. Furthermore, the Kingdom doesn't need another failing symbol: Hallownest' story ended with an unknown hero.
See, it is actually quite obvious. What do we know about the Pale King's transformation? -after transforming, his previous body - or shell - becomes corpse-like; it decomposes and it is lifeless. -he appears to hatch from an egg inside of his former body, which means that the size of said egg needs to be much smaller. -this also means that the following form must be small enough to fit inside the egg. So clearly, after his "death" inside the throne room, his next - and presumably final - form did not hatch inside the abyss, it did also not hatch one room to the right, it hatched from inside his corpse and utilized the single most realistic option in terms of form and size and his signature glow. The Pale King is now... ...a Lumafly.
This video has a lot of really good lore rebuttals, but I think there's an even larger issue with MatPat's theory and the way he makes his videos in general: he ignores the themes of the stories he's theorizing about, privileging conspiracy theory over actual themes. One of Hollow Knight's most poignant themes is the explicit rejection of the "chosen one" narrative. You, the protagonist, explicitly AREN'T the Hollow Knight. You're also not the king. You spend the entire game becoming the main character of a story you shouldn't be the main character of. You aren't the chosen one. You were specifically rejected. That's the whole point.
@@wakinnebrada8159 Calling it a "game theory" doesnt give it any more intelligence than calling it a "random speculation with questionable evidence". Hollow Knight is an allegory for the study hindu translation of the bible in Latin America, but hey, *thats just a game theory.* No, making something a "theory" doesnt give it a free pass. You can theorize all you like and simply be wrong. MatPat's theory is no different than the Flat Earth "theory". All hes doing is surface level skimming of the narrative without ever going deeper. Hes free to think the world is flat all he wants, that doesnt make Earth a 2D plane people can fall off of.
I think that MatPat's content by nature is rather contrived because he strives for theories that aren't already present within the lore of the game / film, so he constructs a false theory that is either debunked or irrelevant to the story
Let's not forget the game is also centered around death and how it is a natural thing, how everyone and everything must come to an end and be forgotten eventually, so it wouldn't make sense to make the pale king immortal.
No matter if you believe hornet is void or not can we all come together and kick the dead unrevivable horse that is matpats (horrible no good very bad) theory
I only just started watching the video, and before I go any further in it, mostly cause I don't want to forget to write this. While MatPat's theory isn't exactly accurate, it did do something pretty amazing. It exposed an amazing game. Before last week I had never played Hollow Knight, and only heard it once or twice in passing and never paid it any mind. Then I saw matpat's theory, got interested in it, and started playing it. I am now a week in with 59 hours of game time, subscribed to mossbag, fireb0rn, crankyTemplar, and RUSTY- The Superforge, and have downloaded the entire soundtrack to my phone to listen to at work. Thanks to MatPat's video, I found a game I probably would have never found otherwise. A game I fell in love with in every aspect. Now I'm continuing to play it constantly, excited for every bit of info we get for silksong, and constantly dreading the final pantheon that I will inevitably have to complete. I watched that video before even playing the game, and as I played it I started to see how the theory fell apart, but that didn't matter to me because thanks to him I FOUND this fandom and everything amazing in it and I'm excited about it.
MatPat: "look, all I'm saying is: I've never seen the Knight and the Pale King in the same room.." *the entire hollow knight community*: "...who's gonna tell him?"
Quirrel?! Are you crazy? Obviously, the pale king transformation has to be very powerful, and who is the most powerful bug in all of Hallownest, ZOTE THE MIGHTY!!
No eyes used to have 20/20 super vision but now only has no eyes because you stole them for yourself. It's literally the only thing that explains this.
Pale king's third form was mister mushroom, he died then hatched from that eg to the right, wrote some lore, then realizes that "kingdoms rise and fall to dust" and that he needs to readjust his life plan
@@ConFlow247 i remembered right now someone made their own version of this called im green dabe dee dabe but its on german. Also what about a Black King or floorgrey brown King
I just want to thank Matpat for making that theory, because if he didn't, one I wouldn't know what hollow knight is, and two I wouldn't have discovered your channel
@@stellasoleclark5586 I know, the whole thing is a joke at how he calls himself matpat, I'm not the first to do it and will not be the last (hopefully)
Another crucial flaw with his theory is that we see multiple void eggs that the vessels supposedly hatched from(in the background of the abyss). This would mean that the pale king had multiple hatching points, or that because it's already confirmed that the white lady and the pale king made several eggs that the egg the player hatched from was an ordinary vessel egg with no reincarnation.
additional observation: Wouldn't the dreamers recognize the Pale King? Luriel fanatically wants to obey the Pale King no matter what, you would think the Pale King would give her a little *wink wink* "I'll be back".
It's so refreshing to see someone debunk one of Matpat's theories in a mature way rather than just saying "YOURE WRONG STOOPID" You went about this in such a mature and overall respectful way but that didn't hold back your theory debunking either. There's a very fine line that exists that allows both debunking and being respectful and you seem to have walked that line flawlessly
This video shows what debunking really is: rather than trying to deny everything, he explains what is true/plausible and what is false/ unrealistic while trying to be as objective as he can
To be fair a lot were being dicks about it, I'd say 40% were criticizing 60 were being dicks and not being constructive. I get the response because it's a insulated community and that suddenly an outsider is coming in with an insane theory but there to people new to hollow knight like I was it did seem a bit toxic especially because there are few theories he makes that are ment to be taken as the gospel truth and not just a fun theory to give attention to a game.
To your point about how the Royal Retainers react to the Knight: I've always interpreted White Palace as a dream from the perspective of the Pale King. His retainers bow to him, wishing he would defer his problems to them so they could alleviate the weight of the crown a bit. The traps, possibly a reference to his feeling like there were treachery around every corner, with the infection's effects being likely unpredictable and unrecognizable in its early stages - or if you lump the traps with the Kingsmoulds, then they're mental defenses from a mind that ahs had extensive experience with dreams, hence why the Pale King's dream is the only one that's actually a properly fleshed-out level (though the only other dreams we physically enter, save the sculpted ones of Dreamers and the Radiance-filled mind of the Hollow Knight, are those of the infected, which could easily have a lot to do with the vast emptiness within) and viewing them as defense mechanisms is also how I've always been viewing the Dream Bosses - you only see them in the dreams of their original bodies, and it is them at their strongest - or more likely, as their minds perceive their strengths, embellished by their egos. The palace itself is much larger than the throne room where we find the Pale King's corpse, or perhaps his next, cast-off shell? I dunno, he shed form once before, I wouldn't be surprised if he did it again. But you rarely access dreams from those that are still alive, and it seems odd that one of his shells, and not the other, would have a fleshed out dream world. The lore always implied that it was the actual White Palace, but I've always interpreted the entirety of the dream areas the way Psychonauts describes them - reflections of the dreamer's psyche.
The mossbag intro in this video is actually a very complex joke. The first sound played when the title card is shown is the sound that plays when the character, "Sans", is talking. Sans is a character from the little known indie game Undertale. The second title card shown has a boy saying the word, "Ok". I have come to believe that this is the character Ness from the multimillion dollar franchise of Mother. The complex joke is trying to tell us that Sans is Ness. I hope you can now understand the highly intellectual joke that mossbag has produced.
meh, 3/4 baked. there's a lot of contradictions and team cherry has said before there's no canon lore. If you wanted to say hallownest takes place on the moon you could probably argue that with evidence.
@@Naokarma non canon lore still means that if the existing information available contradicts your theory your theory is probably wrong. Using your example, even if there is no canon lore, if the game gives you enough information to know that Hallownest is located in Earth, you can't just say that is is on the moon
@@Naokarma Actually, since there is no oxygen on the moon, you can't breathe. When you talk to her, No Eyes says "Can't dream... if you're still breathing, little one...", wich means Hallownest bugs breathe. So Hallownest can't be located on the moon.
@@fantasyshadows3207 zote is hornet,zote is a godseeker,zote is the radience,zote is quirrel,zote is the shade lord,zote is the pale king and zote is the white lady.proof?they never appear in the same room
@@janovich. by that logic, elderbug could be the Hollow knight reincarnated after being defeated by the Knight, sent back in time. This actually makes more sense because when you give elderbug the delicate flower, he seems to feel better about dreams, maybe because they were forced to deny and ignore their thoughts to fulfill their purpose. And In the godmaster ending, if you give the delicate flower to the god seeker, the void that takes over the godseeker is completely erased by whatever power exists within the flower. This same power could have helped elderbug move on with the trauma of his past life, allowing him to move on. Besides, everyone knows that hornet is actually the flukemarm
matpat had a lot to talk about, like rocket science behind Mr mushroom(see what i did there?), hornet's geno types, is it possible for mace bug to survive after false knight battle,... and he ended up with this
This is a general thkng I hate about many theorists. The use of Cut Content as evidence. Cut content, by it's very nature, was removed by the devs. Meaning that it has no bearing on any lore towards the game. It could be used if you sucessfully prove that it still applies. But that's almost impossible. Making it pointess.
i think the reason dream nail dialogue for the hollow knight was cut, and why the same thing happened for pure vessel, was because they were both vessels and their shell seems to block the influence of the dream nail more than for any other reason. this can also be seen in how you are able to access the radiance at all, with hornet forcing an opening in the hollow knight's shell with her needle. this would be a VERY rare case, though, in which cut content could still be considered as intended, and i don't think it applies anywhere else. unrelated fun fact: if you dream nail a shade or sibling that is not protected by a shell, it dies instantly
Meanwhile Miyazaki: "let's cut this line of dialogue so things aren't TOO easy to understand" Theorists: "THE MISTRANSLATED ENGLISH INGAME TEXT SAYS THIS"
@@istvanvincze7411 I'm sure most people get the gist of it. You're probably right, just not sure why you get so absurdly angry about it. Lighten up dude, the internet it going to be a harsh place if you're going to flip each time you see a grammatical mistake. Also, since you've got such a hard-on about having correct grammar; it's whether, not wether.
You don't really need to dig deep into the game to undermine MattPat's theory. You just need to talk to Jinn in steel soul mode. She tells you explicitly that you don't have a soul. Which means it's impossible for you to be a reincarnation. Done and done.
Nahh we can go further than that! Just idk playing the game!! And completing it gives u the full picture of the story n stuff 😂 I feel Matt actually did no research nor even played hollow knight before making his video 🤦♀️
You can find contradictions within his own theory lmao. You don't even need to play the game, MatPat openly contradicts himself within the same video he made
*haha you fool! i posted the same comment **_2_** hours before you! i can now sue you for stealing my comment! what a foolish mistake by a mortal such as yourself!*
Lmao my sister walked in on me playing it and said “the knight is the pale king” and i got so mad thinking she spoiled it for me, and after finishing it i was so relieved to see she just believed a bs theory
Also, if the Knight were the King, they wouldn't need the King's brand to be recognized as ruler. The magic of hallownest clearly knows its king based on presence alone.
The knight doesn't just get the brand. He gets the monarch wings, and the kingsoul. And we can knock the king off his throne and sit in it. We're running around and obtaining the trappings of power and essentially *becoming* a new king.
@@toketsupuurin exactly! All that symbolism about us obtaining/salvaging/stealing the marks of a monarch would be for nothing if the vessel was just the old king.
It feels like MatPat was trying to shoehorn in common videogame storytelling tropes he's theorized about before in other games, like "the player character is actually multiple important characters" or "someone's trying to achieve eternal life".
@@iheartblock3792 A bad theory is still infact, a theory! Not all of his are 100% true, or 100% gonna happen. Theories are for fun! To explore options or discovering clues to a story! A bad theory is still infact, a theory!
We're no strangers to love You know the rules and so do I A full commitment's what I'm thinking of You wouldn't get this from any other guy I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling Gotta make you understand Never gonna give you up Never gonna let you down Never gonna run around and desert you Never gonna make you cry Never gonna say goodbye Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you We've known each other for so long Your heart's been aching but you're too shy to say it Inside we both know what's been going on We know the game and we're gonna play it And if you ask me how I'm feeling Don't tell me you're too blind to see Never gonna give you up Never gonna let you down Never gonna run around and desert you Never gonna make you cry Never gonna say goodbye Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you Never gonna give you up Never gonna let you down Never gonna run around and desert you Never gonna make you cry Never gonna say goodbye Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you (Give you up) (Ooh) Never gonna give, never gonna give (Give you up) We've known each other for so long Your heart's been aching but you're too shy to say it Inside we both know what's been going on We know the game and we're gonna play it I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling Gotta make you understand Never gonna give you up Never gonna let you down Never gonna run around and desert you Never gonna make you cry Never gonna say goodbye Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you Never gonna give you up Never gonna let you down Never gonna run around and desert you Never gonna make you cry Never gonna say goodbye Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you Never gonna give you up Never gonna let you down Never gonna run around and desert you Never gonna make you cry Never gonna say goodbye
I just realised something, Matt Pats hollow knight theory is almost exactly the same as when he pissed off the dark souls community by claiming the ashen one wasn't just some random dude, and same here with him trying to claim the knight isn't some random failed experiment that got loose
Well, the dark souls 3 one holds up a lot better, mostly because the developers don't even know what's going on it that game. Seriously, the lore in that game is a mess if you look at it any closer than a brief summery. The Souls 2 had a similar problem, and Souls 1 is probably the best, but still has a lot of holes, especially with the izalith thing. The problem with both 2 and 3, is that the entire game had to be changed half way through development, so the lore is all just pieces of the original vision patched together in a way that makes some sense. They did well, and the games are still pretty good, but there's enough left to the imagination where some pretty outrageous theories actually have a lot going for them.
Fraser Budd-Brophy Yeah, I'm no Dark Souls lore master, but his HK theory had me thinking about that Dark Souls theory a lot, as I wondered if his condensed, over simplified theory had wiped away details I never would have discovered on my own as a non fan, just like it did with this theory, which covered a topic that I DID know well.
TheHalogen131 Wait, wasn't For Honor like 3 years ago? I think moss was just saying that he was being receptive to criticism for this theory specifically.
Yeah, you are probably right. And it was 3 years ago, but it still tickles me the very wrong way. I just can't get over it, because it's not as much about game, as it is about history. And history proves him very much wrong.
I like how you provided irrefutable evidence that the knight isn’t the pale king within the first 10th of the video with the shot of the knight and the pale king in the same room but then you just kept going for another 40 minutes.😂
I feel one of the issues with the way MatPat viewed the way Hollow Knight was written was that he insisted all characters were simply an instrument of the writers to pour cryptic worldbuilding (dont get me wrong some characters are more than others) instead of characters written to inhabit a world, elderbug has no reason to allude to any deeper world meaning seeing as he is so new to Hallownest that he hasn't even seen the stagways open until the Knight opens them
I saw the video and thought, “This is now my personnel head canon.” But when I watched several debunk videos and played through the game myself I realized that the theory is worse than the Ness is Sans video.
I get the whole "lack of evidence" yadda, yadda, yadda stuff, but the thing I care most about is the artistic side. You are just another Knight. There isn't much that separates the main character from all others and I think that's the point. You're not some chosen savior like The Hollow Knight, you're not some independent warrior like Hornet, you are a nameless nobody, cast aside like all the other nameless nobodies just like you.
I agree with this so much not only because I think it's right, but it's more compelling. It's also.. a pretty BIG part of the story that you could have easily turned out to be like any other of the corrupted spawn you fight, you just happen to have some luck and skill. This makes a compelling narrative. It's less cool if you only win because you were destined to and naturally, genetically better than everyone else.
It's like Rey in Star Wars being Palpatine's relative rather than a nobody. Yeah, the idea of making the Knight a reincarnated King is a cool idea, but it is just a much more compelling story if you are playing as a nobody
@@MisterMistea It's funny you mention that because I LOVED that in Star Wars... uh.. the second one. I loved that she was no one, because it's an eye-rolling detail that everyone important is related in a galaxy, and it says that anyone is capable of great things. And then, yeah. They couldn't let that slide.
Hornet even takes pity on you, because of this fact. What makes you think you can succeed where the mighty Hollow Knight, the skilled and badass warrior, has failed? Much like Dark Souls, you're another attempt to get it right.
I mean After Fnaf You Cant Even Blame him that much but as Other People Pointed out theres a Over 1h long vid going over the Hollow Knight Lore Which is The Problem
@@Pihsrosnec Not true in the slightest. Just a ridiculous and kinda rude joke, considering if we remove Mat Pat. Scott would have put the things into the game he did anyway.
Honestly though, every time someone debunks Mat's theories they're labeled as toxic by some of his fans. And Mat is wrong more often than one would think.
Yeah this is more true than I’d like to admit even with his recent depart from TH-cam. I don’t have a problem with people simply being loyal to their favorite TH-camrs, but it’s almost sort of cultish and almost a bit disturbing imo. Might just be me though idk
I love how the 'union' footage is just a blurred rickroll. Zote is obviously the reincarnation of the pale king put into a vessel obviously I mean like c'mon the facts are obvious.
Game Theory: “If there’s an important character we never see, it’s us. The player character is always inherently special even if it doesn’t look like it”
As someone who only played the game casually, my takeaway was always just that the vessel either dug his way out of the abyss, or the abyss door opened back up for whatever reason and he just snuck through and wandered around for a while.
actually if we go by this logic, we should have prevented amtpat from doing this video if we could, considering it is easy to know his theory is going to be wrong even before he does it and maybe even he knows,too since he might have done the video because of trending silksong. So by that logic, he spread misinformation and mossbag can't fix it as his videos are watched less hence why we should have prevented. Now imagine we could actually prevent it. Then the thanos meme would be like:'' Hardest decisions require the strongest wills'' because we prevented misinformation at the cost of hollow knight's trend. That is the real no cost too great if you ask me. The only way things can good is basically if mossbag's video gets famous making it a win win sutiation.
Dont know wut u talkin m8, i get pretty aroused just by the mention of that video. Not saying TO SEE IT. Im now pretty erect just by the mere mention of what u have just written.
I watched the MatPat video before getting the game, and I thought to myself "huh, this theory seems neat and kinda makes sense" and then I bought the game and played it for 20 hours, after which I thought "that theory makes no sense"
@markjvp A theory lives or dies based on the facts used to support it. I can theorise that all of Hallownest is an illusion created by the all powerful Cornifer, to sell you secretly meaningless maps, but unless it's supported by in-game facts and doesn't contradict them outright, then it's just an objectively bad theory. Also you literally can't think opposing theories are correct unless you're taking the perspective of "the story is what the audience wants it to mean". If one guy makes the theory that eating our young is a very good idea, and another says maybe not quite actually, there's no middle ground. If you're gonna partake in internet squabble you oughta at least have opinions.
“How did vessels escape?” Given just how many vessels can be seen in the abyss and how large the abyss is, i dont think its that hard to believe at least some managed to find hidden paths out, the whole kingdom is riddled with hidden paths. Perhaps even released on purpose either as a precaution or by those that felt sympathy for them.
@@jstar3382 yep! And some are scattered throughout Hallownest, like the dead vessel in Hornet’s fight or the the Broken Vessel in the Ancient Basin. However it does seem like that Deepnest was the main route of escape, and from there they made their way out. Side note, but there’s a giant geo cache hidden in Kingdom’s Edge that stretches down to the Ancient Basin (not directly connected but the environment is there, including a bug from the Ancient Basin). However you need Desolate Dive/Descending Dark to get down there, but that could always have been an alternative route for the escaping vessels.
Since wyrms were said to have foresight, I personally like to believe that an exit was purposely left for the Knight to exit through as this was part of the plan all along.
it's very plausible, but i think it's at the same time a meta for players and an actual message for those beings in the game, because lore wise that makes sense
There is litterally an item that just says NO to this theory, the kings brand. IF you were the king, it wouldn't say "hallownest shall recognize a new ruler", as YOU'D ALLREADY BE THE RULER another thing is, NOT all higher beings are on the same level as the pale king, the 3 strongest higher beings are the radiance, pale king and white lady, 2 of them, probally being pale beings
I'd say that the void god is stronger than the Pale King and White Lady by far, seeing as it's called the "God of Gods" by Godseeker and it's able to kill the Absolute Radiance.
Technically, there's more. There's the Pale King, White Lady, and The Radiance, yes, but there's also The Nightmare Heart, Unn, the Void Creature, and it's heavily speculated that the weird Lifeblood Creature is also one. You could argue that the weird giant mushroom thing in Fungal Wastes is also a higher being, but it's very debatable.
At the beginning of the video, the voiceclip mossbag uses for the "intro" is Sans speaking. Then slightly later when he restarts and does the intro again, he uses Ness' "Okay" as a subtle reference to the Sans=Ness theory AND I LOVE THAT HIDDEN REFERENCE
Actually, that's more like thinking that the sun revolves around the Earth and the Pope is still infallible. The HK flat earth thing is Hornet is void.
This was one of the last of his theories I watched, and for good reason. I barely knew the lore at the time, and yet even I could poke massive holes in his theory
34:22 Regarding the nursery, I've always thought that this room never actually existed in real life, but that it symbolizes the Pale King's true hopes and wishes. It symbolizes what the Pale King sacrificed to ensure his kingdom's continued existence; his relationship with the Queen, and raising an heir to rule in the future.
I know this comment is months old but just want to say that I’m fully subscribing to this train of thought. It makes the shade’s lullaby a real punch in the gut, going from the gentle melody in the nursery (the king’s dreams of a child) to the discordant shade theme (the reality that he consigned thousands of his children to be hollowed out by the void). That and the chair with the White Lady’s silhouette take on a much sadder tone.
It could also symbolise the greatest flaw in the Pale King's plan: the Hollow Knight was raised as a child. It was trained and tested until it was as strong as it could be, but its father also sat and rested with it after it completed the Path of Pain. It had a nursery where its parents cared for it not as a tool in their plot to stop the Infection, but as their child. The Pale King loved the Hollow Knight and, in turn, the Hollow Knight loved him back, and that love is what made it an imperfect vessel.
Mattpat: You are a king, THE king! Me: well yeah, obviously. Kingsbrand makes you the king of hallownest. Mattpat: you are playing as the pale king Me: wait what? *visible confusion*
Matpat: "It seems you're related to royalty!" Me: "Well yeah, you're literally one of his kid-" Matpat: "So you must be the reincarnation of the pale king after he planned out a scheme to self-resurrect via void, self-exile to protect himself from an infection he can apparently cure, then come back to actually cure it!! :)" Some real big brain moves.
@@WobblesandBean Idk whether I'm missing a sarcasm or you actually mean to ask the question but if you're actually wondering their enemies or not the answer is obvious no. Like both the comment he uses to make this joke and his tone when he makes this joke clearly suggest they're either friends or at least doesnt hate each other.
Ohhh, bury my mother, pale and slight, bury my father with his eyes shut tight! Bury my sisters, two by two, and then when you're done, let's bury me toooo! 😔✊
4:50 I want to clear something up since so many people seem to misinterpret this sentence and then leave a comment before watching the rest of the video. I say "You literally see the Knight with the Pale King in the same room" while showing the Abyss cutscene. I am not saying that the Knight is standing right next to the Pale King. The Vessel next to the Pale King is the Hollow Knight. But the Knight is still "in the same room", it's the Vessel hanging off the ledge. In other words, both characters are in the same place at the same time. At 28:53 in the video, I go more in depth about this issue, so please watch that section to get a better idea of how I interpret this scene.
*Nice*
I just want to say this while I can: Matpats defence of "ItS JuSt a ThEoRy!1!" does NOT justify the existence of some of his more poorly made theories! When you start to promote an easily disproven theory to a large, impressionable audience that is mostly comprised of young children, you are spreading misinformation!
I still mostly like Game Theory, and he did pin a comment of someone completely debunking him in this Hollow Knight video, but his cringy attempts to be funny, deflective initial response to criticism, and lack of care for the franchises he sometimes covers can get VERY grating.
wow mossbag i went to rewatch this video cuz its a good video and i see ur pinned a comment from a week ago. wow
@@jakespacepiratee3740 So...Is that a Crime that the game company will make a demand for or are you just acting a tiny biy too much as a child?
Ok i saw people talk about this point but then i realized the helmets from the flashback are different then the vessels now
Idk why Matpat went the lore theory route for Hollow Knight. Hollow Knight has extensive lore that's already well understood and just about fully excavated, so literally any theory he put out would have to make some leaps and ignore some points. That's sort of the issue with his format. When the fans ask you for a video about a game that already has deep lore and a community surrounding it, there ain't much room for fan theories. If I were Matpat and were asked to make a Hollow Knight video, I'd try to something more related to entomology or soil science. Maybe try to frame the Radiance plague as a real life parasitic infection that controls insect minds. There's a lot to work with tangentially related to Hollow Knight, but not much further you can take the lore of the game itself.
Matpat's best episodes are the ones where he uses elements from the game he's discussing to teach you actual science. Teaching mendelian genetics by speculating about who Rosalina's parents are. Discussing the ecological implications of the Bee movie. Explaining the stages of grief using Majora's Mask. Those are the Game Theory episodes I remember.
I agree. Just look at his recent Kirby videos. His first one was a bit more about story and lore, which got such huge backlash that he canceled the part 2 and instead made a video relating to the science of how Kirby flies. So he knows the science-y videos are less controversial. I get that he's just trying to do his own thing, but it's a little disheartening when his video seems to ignore all of the research this community has put into understanding this game. It wouldn't even take that much work. Just watching my videos would have been enough to show him a few serious flaws in his theory.
But now that you mention it, a video connecting Hollow Knight back to the real-life entomology that might have inspired it sounds really interesting. Maybe I'll just make it.
Also, your content is great! It's nice to see you here! Also also, I saw you in the comments section of a ska video, and that made you 100 times cooler in my book.
@@mossbag69 haha, if there's three things I can't get enough of, it's entomology, ska music, and youtube videos. Hit me up on twitter if you want any help with that entomology video!
Will do! Don't stop skanking, my friend
th-cam.com/video/zKDijIVqSxo/w-d-xo.html this video from superforge is a great example of making a fan theory outside lore discussion, and what ideally could have been MatPat's theory
@@TierZoo I keep thinking you can't get cooler, and then I find you making well-thought out comments on all sorts of interesting videos throughout TH-cam. You just keep bringing positivity wherever you go, and it makes me feel better about this site. Don't stop rocking anytime soon. :)
Imagine watching a whole 46 minute video about Hollow Knight then getting shit on at the end
must suck to be indeimaus
Lol, such a fucking perfect comment. You're cool, Vaati. You too, mossbag.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
F in chat for Vaati
Would you consider talking about Hollow knight? I'll give you all my blood sacrifices. 😃😃
woow AHAHAHAHAHHA it must suck to be vaatividya
MatPat : _This is the story of Hollow Knight._
Mossbag : *It's war then.*
AND IT SHALL BE A WAR WE INTEND TO WIN, FELLOW COMRADES!
It's treason then.
MossBag*
**mossbag
***mOSSbAG
Elder Bug is definitely the Pale King who is taking a form that no being wants to interact with while he slowly regains his power
Truly
Big T
if you don't talk to elderbug at the start, you truly are the pure vessel
This has to be true due to the fact that there isn’t enough evidence to prove it wrong, and that it sort of makes sense if you ignore all evidence against it (which matpat would never do)
You do see him mere moments after a poem DIRECTED at the Pale King. It's clear as day honestly.
"i am literally shaking and crying right now" says mossbag, in the most monotone voice ever
That's just what he sounds like when he's crying and he's constantly sobbing during every single one of his videos
You have 666 likes
I wait know it's 667
ever heard of david 504
Captain Holt in real life.
carlost died Hahaha
I'm not surprised the royal retainers didn't know the pale king was dead, I mean that *is* a lot of buzz saws to get by just to check on him
"Hello King, Pale, Mr, sir. I eh have AAAAAGH"
"Dammit, Grace we lost Jerry to the buzzsaws! Send Tommy next!"
Poor Retainers.....
"Tommy! Watch Out!"
*BUUUUUZzzz*
"Alright... Billy, your up"
Took me a While to get past those
@@Zibb12345 Same but in my second run I have the hiveblood charm and it was way easier
@@MrEntce Taking notes.
There is no Knight, its just Elderbug moving really fast
Pardon?
As you do
thank you, everyone just assumes the character we play as is not elderbug. if you look at the big picture, you can see that when the character is in dirtmouth, not moving, so is elderbug. that proves elderbug is the character we play as.
Best theory
Thank God someone said it
“Maybe you play as the Pale King”
The whole fandom: you are not a clown, you are the entire circus.
Colosseum of Fools
You are not a fool, you are the whole colosseum
@@grogpoptart now we know that matpat was the one who founded the colloseum
@@hulmhochberg8129 the lord fool was matpat the entire time!
@@piglinenthusiast5926 but hey, that's just a theory. A FOOL THEORY.
mossbag: *complains about mis-gendering the vessels*
also mossbag: *calls the vessels bugs despite the godhome statue stating that they're not bugs*
Haha you got me
mossbag At least you admit it!
"did you just assume my fucking species"
Saprogeist boooo
...so what are they?
A 46-minute video with no mid-roll ads bro I f****** love
I wonder how he gets money for doing youtube. Pure pasion? Is he a pure vessel?
DIXYPROO if he was pure, he wouldn’t respond. No mind to think, you know.
wait. i just watched a 46 minute video? oh.
Instead of midrolled we got rickrolled!
I use Ad-block
MWA HAHA Ha
I think matpat forgot that when two gods have a child, that usually makes another god
"Usually" he said mite not happen but you are correct Usually
Ps:sorry falcon_girl64
@@rosedoingallofyourdares9524 usually is a loose word here genetics don’t work like that if two parents have blue eyes their kid is going to have blue eyes (unless the milkman). Do you see where I’m going with this.
And a primordial ooze which can form a god and power a kingdom he can kick your ass basically
Just look at ancient pantheons like the Greek and Roman ones, Zeus created a whole lot of half gods and full gods.
@@yeetmcyeetalot5979 That's not how genetics work either. Just because both parents have blue eyes doesn't mean the child will have blue eyes, neccecarily.
That image with Mat's face on a primal aspid is honestly one of the most powerful insults I've seen.
Matpat: think about it, have you ever seen the knight and the pale king in the same place?
mossbag: yes
The horns aren't even the same though
@@KaitoTheIncubus thats the hollow knight the one hanging on the edge is the young hollow knight. the knight is clinging to the ledge
Icey Boss The character you play as in the game isn’t the Hollow Knight. That’s the character we see who’s leaving with the Pale King. We play the one hanging off the ledge, he’s just known as The Knight.
@@sulmansj3610 or ghost. Or vessel. Or god of gods
Generally it’s sort of like a message for your future telling your future self what to do
Mat Pat:
makes hollow knight game theory
Hollow Knight community:
he a little confused, but he got the spirit
more like
Hollow Knight community: CONSUME HIS LIVER
@@sluggishkitten yea, that is more like it
This is a geuin comment. Have a like
Looks like he'll need to learn how to focus that spirit to heal himself after the Hollow Knight community is done with him.
Don't you mean: He got the soul?
Matpat: the knight is actually PK
mossbag: I sleep
Matpat: Hornet is void
mossbag: HOLD IT RIGHT THERE PARTNER
hornet IS VOID
@@wyleeecolee215 reeeeeeeee
@@wyleeecolee215 then why are you here infidel?
@@luvluv7727 LISTEN HERE BUSTER SHES BLACK.VOID IS BLACK THE ONLY ANSWER IS
hornet is void
@@wyleeecolee215 seriously? She can't be void, she didn't come from the Abyss; Hera hid her away to keep the Pale King from yeeting her ass into the Abyss and killing her. There is a secret nursery near Hera's lair where Hornet was raised.
"You the challenge met"
Of course. Menderbug met the challenge of fixing the sign at the top of the forgotten crossroads that we keep breaking.
Menderbug is the Pale King = confirmed
@@1umbreon4life that implies the pale king would bother getting up to do anything in person
@@wildfire9280I apologize in advance for the wildly inappropriate response I'm about to give to this comment.
He "got up" to "do" the White Lady "in person" if you know what I mean 😏
@@1umbreon4life this is a certified "hot bug sex" moment
@@1umbreon4life Damn. This implies he only did it once. And dont forget Herra. He was getting up close and personal often.
I like how this video is titled “episode 26” and you have exactly 26 videos. Which means the shitpost Cuphead lore video is on equal standing with your scripted nearly hour long essays...
Wut about the 3 second Sonic vid
He will not turn a blind eye to his finest creation, jhin bottle.
Or he’s going out of order
Worse yet, sonic gets mail.
I say "worse" because its being downgraded to a regular episode, it should really be considered above all the other videos.
The instant MatPat put out his video, I just KNEW mossbag was gonna come out with a 40 minute long video debunking it.
The comments were swarmed by requests of Mossbag breaking this down.
@@videopolice432 Yup...
I expected a 30 minute video, same thing though... right?
I actually asked him for it and I don’t regret it at all
It was a given as Mossbag like to do lore videos and with how he gets with VORNET it was no suprise that he made this video.
MatPat:makes a hollow knight Lore video
Mossbag: dont cite the deep magic to me wich, *I was there when it was written*
Nice! A Narnia reference! It's been ages since I even thought of Narnia lol
The reason why the npc in the palace are bowing to you is because they mistake you with the hollow knight. At this point the hollow knight is known to be the sacrifice for hollownest and they also see it as an royale cause it chills with the king also probably knowing that it's the the kings child. The knight's appearance comes the closest to the hollow knight among all the children we have seen.
I always thought it was the king's brand that did it, but this is an option too!
@@queen-lilyorjiako268 Same reaction without it, going by the video
This was always my assumption. They don't seem to be fully real, they don't have physical bodies, so I think they're like a projection of the Pale King's will and hope for the Hollow Knight.
what if you
wanted to make a theory
but mossbag said:
0:00-46:43
Sorry i didn't understand... Can you translate to Morse code?
.. / .- -- / .-.. .. - . .-. .- .-.. .-.. -.-- / ... .... .- -.- .. -. --. / .- -. -.. / -.-. .-. -.-- .. -. --. / .-. .. --. .... - / -. --- .-- .-.-.- / .. / -.-. .- -. .----. - / -... . .-.. .. . ...- . / -- .- - .--. .- - / .... .- ... / -.. --- -. . / - .... .. ... .-.-.- / .. ... / -. --- - .... .. -. --. / .. -. / - .... .. ... / .-- --- .-. .-.. -.. / ... .- -.-. .-. . -.. / .- -. -.-- -- --- .-. . ..--.. / .. ... / -. --- / .-- --- .-. -.- / --- ..-. / .- .-. - / ..-. .-. . . / ..-. .-. --- -- / - .... .. ... / -- .- -. .----. ... / --. .-. .- ... .--. ..--.. / --- .... / --. --- -.. --..-- / .. / -.-. .- -. .----. - / -.. --- / - .... .. ... .-.-.- / .... --- .-- / -.-. --- ..- .-.. -.. / -- .- - .--. .- - / .-. . .- .-.. .-.. -.-- / ... .- -.-- / .- .-.. .-.. / - .... --- ... . / - .... .. -. --. ... / .- -... --- ..- - / - .... . / -.-. .- -. - . .-. -... ..- .-. -.-- / - .- .-.. . ... ..--.. / .-- .... .- - / -.. .. -.. / -.-. .... .- ..- -.-. . .-. / . ...- . .-. / -.. --- / - --- / -.. . ... . .-. ...- . / - .... .. ... ..--.. / .. / -- . .- -. --..-- / ... ..- .-. . --..-- / - .... .- - / -.. . .- - .... -... . -.. / -.-. --- -. ..-. . ... ... .. --- -. / .-. .. --. .... - / .- - / - .... . / . -. -.. / ..-. . .-.. - / .--. .-. . - - -.-- / -.-. --- -. - .-. .. ...- . -.. --..-- / -... ..- - / - .... . / .-- .. ..-. . / --- ..-. / -... .- - .... .----. ... / - .- .-.. . / .... .- ... / --. .. ...- . -. / ..- ... / .--. .-. . -.-. .. --- ..- ... / .. -. ... .. --. .... - / .. -. - --- / - .... . / .-. --- .-.. . / --- ..-. / .-- --- -- . -. / -.. ..- .-. .. -. --. / - .... . / .-.. .- - . / -- .. -.. -.. .-.. . / .- --. . ... .-.-.-
First 30 seconds. If you want more tell me but I might not actually do so.
@@Soul_Twister .-- .... .- - / .. ..-. / -.-- --- ..- / .-- .- -. - . -.. / - --- / -- .- -.- . / .- / - .... . --- .-. -.-- / -... ..- - / -- --- ... ... -... .- --. / ... .- .. -.. / ----- ---... ----- ----- -....- ....- -.... ---... ....- ...--
@@Soul_Twister
.-- .... .- - / .. ..-.
-.-- --- ..- / .-- .- -. - . -.. / - --- / -- .- -.- . / .- / - .... . --- .-. -.--
-... ..- - / -- --- ... ... -... .- --. / ... .- .. -.. ---...
----- ---... ----- ----- -....- ....- -.... ---... ....- ...--
@@Soul_Twister
.-- .... .- - / .. ..-. / -.-- --- ..- /
.-- .- -. - . -.. / - --- / -- .- -.- . / .- / - .... . --- .-. -.-- /
-... ..- - / -- --- ... ... -... .- --. / ... .- .. -.. ---... /
----- ---... ----- ----- -....- ....- -.... ---... ....- ...--
MatPat's thoughts: "no way the offspring of 2 higher beings could possibly a higher being."
Unless... the milkman
Fr it is so annoying how much he uses the knight being a higher being as a point
Two higher beings make a corpse and fill it with the black stuff
@@yeetmcyeetalot5979 no just no not even as a joke
@@yeetmcyeetalot5979 you do know milk men are gods of time because they manage to make milk appear on peoples doresteps before anyone notices them
Wait a minute, Zote is the pale king! He always talks highly about himself because he is the king, how has nobody figured this out yet?
Not half bad
True
No, you are absolutely wrong!! Pale king is father of Invincible Fearless Sensual Mysterious Enchanting Vigorous Diligent Overwhelming Gorgeous Passionate Terrifying Beautiful Powerful Grey Prince Zote! He is talking about his father at some part of game! He wants to be noticed by him!!!! I *CAN'T BELIEVE* you didnt see that LMAO :DD
Guys, its obviously Leg Eater.
After you buy all of his charms, have them converted to unbreakable charms, and dream nail him 666 times while wearing the Defenders Crest, he starts floating and glowing, infodumps lore onto you, and grows crown like spikes from his head. Then it unlocks the secret ending where he shows up and eats the Radiances legs.
You underestimate the power of Invincible, Fearless, Sensual, Mysterious, Enchanting, Vigorous, Diligent, Overwhelming, Gorgeous, Passionate, Terrifying, Beautiful, Powerful, Grey Prince Zote.
I think it's more interesting to see the Knight as a reborn Pale King in a less literal sense. The Knight continues the King's mission and succeeds where he failed. They become the new king, they fight the Radiance, and they bring peace to the kingdom. It's more interesting to me to see the story as a child surpassing their father. The Knight to me has always been compelling because I see them as unremarkable for a vessel. They weren't somehow the chosen one. The Hollow Knight was, and being groomed for their role is exactly what made them unfit to fulfill it. The Knight instead is special only because they are the one that succeeded. The Pale King failed. His story is over.
The knight did became the king after radiant for 1 second he just want a speed run of being the fastest king to die
@@johnthefool8462 died faster than William Henry Harrison as President
To me is pretty naive and almost cute that MatPat says "Yoi can't just be another failed experiment" when the game heavily implies that yes, you fell down the pit of the Birthplace and so are, in the Pale King's eyes just another failure. It's almost like he demands that all game protagonists are also the main hero, which HK blows away with the Memorial to the Hollow Knight, which gives to the classical "We were never THE hollow knight" moment. Truly beautiful, and one of the few moments which remained true in the game: you have to earn the King's brand, and even then you never get put on a pedestal by "commoners" like Elderbug. Only Hornet knows and still treats you... well, like a slightly irritable older sister :,,)
It's the complete opposite of the "Chosen One" troupe because someone else got that role, and is so rare people who escape into media give the protagonist status for granted when in reality stripping them of their "golden aura" makes them much more relatable, human and their feats even greater, like an underdog that won despite having been dealt a bad set of cards. Furthermore, the Kingdom doesn't need another failing symbol: Hallownest' story ended with an unknown hero.
They don't become the new king.
Kings brand point said@@AeonKnigh432
*1am*
Ok I’m going to sleep
Mossbag:*uploads video*
Me:
*i don’t need sleep, I need answers*
True true
here is 12:22 pm
Hell yeah...
australia?
here is 12:32... I have to work... and I need answers too
See, it is actually quite obvious. What do we know about the Pale King's transformation?
-after transforming, his previous body - or shell - becomes corpse-like; it decomposes and it is lifeless.
-he appears to hatch from an egg inside of his former body, which means that the size of said egg needs to be much smaller.
-this also means that the following form must be small enough to fit inside the egg.
So clearly, after his "death" inside the throne room, his next - and presumably final - form did not hatch inside the abyss, it did also not hatch one room to the right, it hatched from inside his corpse and utilized the single most realistic option in terms of form and size and his signature glow.
The Pale King is now...
...a Lumafly.
i feel like this theory might actually be close to correct
Plot twist: he is the Lumafly in the Lumafly lantern
He's not Zote?
Perhaps a monarch fly
Cant soul users grow in size? Like the white lady did. I mean, how do you reproduce with a tree?
The conclusion I gathered from this video is that Zote is the Pale King.
I mean they're both dicks so maybe
Mindless Scientist Oof that’s fair
@@mindlessscientist3772 One is a self centered dick.
@@lorax1274 That's not entirely selfish.
@@RommekePommeke "True capitain sinks with his ship"
Since wayward compass is a higher being, it is entirely possible that wayward compass is the pale king 🤓
Average wayward compass W
🥶🥶
Remember, Wayward compass cannot talk or think. Its also unbreakable. Meaning wayward compass was the Pure Vessel.
@@Real_BartFartITS GENIUS
This video has a lot of really good lore rebuttals, but I think there's an even larger issue with MatPat's theory and the way he makes his videos in general: he ignores the themes of the stories he's theorizing about, privileging conspiracy theory over actual themes. One of Hollow Knight's most poignant themes is the explicit rejection of the "chosen one" narrative. You, the protagonist, explicitly AREN'T the Hollow Knight. You're also not the king. You spend the entire game becoming the main character of a story you shouldn't be the main character of. You aren't the chosen one. You were specifically rejected. That's the whole point.
@@wakinnebrada8159 Calling it a "game theory" doesnt give it any more intelligence than calling it a "random speculation with questionable evidence".
Hollow Knight is an allegory for the study hindu translation of the bible in Latin America, but hey, *thats just a game theory.* No, making something a "theory" doesnt give it a free pass. You can theorize all you like and simply be wrong. MatPat's theory is no different than the Flat Earth "theory". All hes doing is surface level skimming of the narrative without ever going deeper. Hes free to think the world is flat all he wants, that doesnt make Earth a 2D plane people can fall off of.
I think that MatPat's content by nature is rather contrived because he strives for theories that aren't already present within the lore of the game / film, so he constructs a false theory that is either debunked or irrelevant to the story
Let's not forget the game is also centered around death and how it is a natural thing, how everyone and everything must come to an end and be forgotten eventually, so it wouldn't make sense to make the pale king immortal.
But you literally are the hollow knight if you actually play the game.
Small TrashMan No you aren’t. The Hollow Knight is the one trapped in the Temple of the Black Egg. You in the game are a random discarded vessel.
MatPat: says his theory is probably wrong
Hollow Knight Community: YOU DON'T SAY
At least we agree on that!
No matter if you believe hornet is void or not can we all come together and kick the dead unrevivable horse that is matpats (horrible no good very bad) theory
**Everyone
So dang true
Was going to upvote, but you're at 413....
I only just started watching the video, and before I go any further in it, mostly cause I don't want to forget to write this. While MatPat's theory isn't exactly accurate, it did do something pretty amazing. It exposed an amazing game.
Before last week I had never played Hollow Knight, and only heard it once or twice in passing and never paid it any mind. Then I saw matpat's theory, got interested in it, and started playing it.
I am now a week in with 59 hours of game time, subscribed to mossbag, fireb0rn, crankyTemplar, and RUSTY- The Superforge, and have downloaded the entire soundtrack to my phone to listen to at work. Thanks to MatPat's video, I found a game I probably would have never found otherwise. A game I fell in love with in every aspect. Now I'm continuing to play it constantly, excited for every bit of info we get for silksong, and constantly dreading the final pantheon that I will inevitably have to complete. I watched that video before even playing the game, and as I played it I started to see how the theory fell apart, but that didn't matter to me because thanks to him I FOUND this fandom and everything amazing in it and I'm excited about it.
Same
Woah that's a lot of progress. Good luck with Pantheon!
same here!!!
yeah, it's a great game. Glad it's getting more exposure.
The ends justify the means.
MatPat: "look, all I'm saying is: I've never seen the Knight and the Pale King in the same room.."
*the entire hollow knight community*: "...who's gonna tell him?"
Maybe the real pale king was the friends we made along the way.
LMAOO
quirrel was the pale king all along
Quirrel?! Are you crazy? Obviously, the pale king transformation has to be very powerful, and who is the most powerful bug in all of Hallownest, ZOTE THE MIGHTY!!
All the friends we made along the way are dead
You have no FUCKING idea how long I laughed to this
Thank You
‘A connection between our knight and the pale king is undeniable’ wow. Children are connected to their parents in some way?? That shits crazy.
You deadass fr rn?
So, you're telling me... That I have half of each of my parent's genetic material? Impossible!!!
Wait wait wait, I'm *related* to my parents?
@@gray6004 Only slightly, it seems. Only slightly.
The best part of this video is mossbag trying to duck under this crystal bug's lazer at 41:29
holy shit
true
No eyes used to have 20/20 super vision but now only has no eyes because you stole them for yourself. It's literally the only thing that explains this.
Everyone tried to do that, at least once.
It actually works. Your Hitbox is just a bit smaller.
Pale king's third form was mister mushroom, he died then hatched from that eg to the right, wrote some lore, then realizes that "kingdoms rise and fall to dust" and that he needs to readjust his life plan
The Knight: *literally in the same room as the Wyrm*
MatPat: "I'm just gonna pretend I didn't see that"
Hornet: *says at the black egg temple you and her are siblings*
Mat:i'm just gonna pretend i didn't see that
all of you pretend as if pale king wasnt a shapeshifting demigod. if he is all of your comments are invalid
@@gilsai4990 Nothing indicates he was a shapeshifter... he transformed *once* because his life as a Wyrm ended. That's it.
@@ExileTwilight than matpat's theory is even more likely
@@gilsai4990 Someone wasn't paying attention to either this video or any of the lore in the game.
In the scene in the abyss the Pale king isn’t transparent. He is - I know a revolutionary concept - PALE.
No impossible the pale king is green
@@Bruh-hq1hx nah man i think hes blue...daba dee daba die
@@ConFlow247 i remembered right now someone made their own version of this called im green dabe dee dabe but its on german.
Also what about a Black King or floorgrey brown King
Is the *pale* king ACTUALLY *PALE* ¿?¿?¿?¿
Explain yourself a bit slower pls, I do not understand that much info
Edit: fucking bad english
@@mmax0122 see he’s pale because the light rays are drunk/high
I just want to thank Matpat for making that theory, because if he didn't, one I wouldn't know what hollow knight is, and two I wouldn't have discovered your channel
me too
Yeah, I also fall into the category of idiot who first heard of hollow knight from Matthew Patthew
Same thing here. Same thing happened to me with the whole Overwatch Vs TF2 video he made, and that got me into playing TF2 for over 1,300 hours.
@@aldguton its Patrick lol
@@stellasoleclark5586 I know, the whole thing is a joke at how he calls himself matpat, I'm not the first to do it and will not be the last (hopefully)
Another crucial flaw with his theory is that we see multiple void eggs that the vessels supposedly hatched from(in the background of the abyss). This would mean that the pale king had multiple hatching points, or that because it's already confirmed that the white lady and the pale king made several eggs that the egg the player hatched from was an ordinary vessel egg with no reincarnation.
"there's no way that we are just nobody"- matpat
THATS THE POINT OF THE GAME MY HOMIE.
No cost too great.
No mind to think.
No will to break.
No voice to cry in suffering.
additional observation: Wouldn't the dreamers recognize the Pale King? Luriel fanatically wants to obey the Pale King no matter what, you would think the Pale King would give her a little *wink wink* "I'll be back".
@@Zzzooooppp I think it's Lurian and they're the only male dreamer.
E Lisa ya u rite
@@Zzzooooppp bruh it's Lurien and he is definitely a dude.
It's so refreshing to see someone debunk one of Matpat's theories in a mature way rather than just saying "YOURE WRONG STOOPID" You went about this in such a mature and overall respectful way but that didn't hold back your theory debunking either. There's a very fine line that exists that allows both debunking and being respectful and you seem to have walked that line flawlessly
Lynndissimo
Well he really had no other choice considering lots of GT fans were calling the HK fan base toxic for simply criticizing the theory.
This video shows what debunking really is: rather than trying to deny everything, he explains what is true/plausible and what is false/ unrealistic while trying to be as objective as he can
To be fair a lot were being dicks about it, I'd say 40% were criticizing 60 were being dicks and not being constructive. I get the response because it's a insulated community and that suddenly an outsider is coming in with an insane theory but there to people new to hollow knight like I was it did seem a bit toxic especially because there are few theories he makes that are ment to be taken as the gospel truth and not just a fun theory to give attention to a game.
a lot of people may have been disrespectful but still debunked his ass (from mat's comment section)
Lynndissimo wow, a lot of these comments are well put and discussed. makes me happy everyone isn’t always assuming criticism = hate
20:00 king. Your troubles. Lettuce.
God dammit
Oh yeah XD
you gotta eat the lettuce
Exactly what I was thinking
Kakyoin: You gonna eat that lettuce?
rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero rero
To your point about how the Royal Retainers react to the Knight: I've always interpreted White Palace as a dream from the perspective of the Pale King.
His retainers bow to him, wishing he would defer his problems to them so they could alleviate the weight of the crown a bit.
The traps, possibly a reference to his feeling like there were treachery around every corner, with the infection's effects being likely unpredictable and unrecognizable in its early stages - or if you lump the traps with the Kingsmoulds, then they're mental defenses from a mind that ahs had extensive experience with dreams, hence why the Pale King's dream is the only one that's actually a properly fleshed-out level (though the only other dreams we physically enter, save the sculpted ones of Dreamers and the Radiance-filled mind of the Hollow Knight, are those of the infected, which could easily have a lot to do with the vast emptiness within) and viewing them as defense mechanisms is also how I've always been viewing the Dream Bosses - you only see them in the dreams of their original bodies, and it is them at their strongest - or more likely, as their minds perceive their strengths, embellished by their egos.
The palace itself is much larger than the throne room where we find the Pale King's corpse, or perhaps his next, cast-off shell? I dunno, he shed form once before, I wouldn't be surprised if he did it again. But you rarely access dreams from those that are still alive, and it seems odd that one of his shells, and not the other, would have a fleshed out dream world. The lore always implied that it was the actual White Palace, but I've always interpreted the entirety of the dream areas the way Psychonauts describes them - reflections of the dreamer's psyche.
The mossbag intro in this video is actually a very complex joke. The first sound played when the title card is shown is the sound that plays when the character, "Sans", is talking. Sans is a character from the little known indie game Undertale. The second title card shown has a boy saying the word, "Ok". I have come to believe that this is the character Ness from the multimillion dollar franchise of Mother. The complex joke is trying to tell us that Sans is Ness. I hope you can now understand the highly intellectual joke that mossbag has produced.
AND the sans is ness is a theory that mat pat did
LITTLE known? Are you high?
Strawberry no. His subtle sarcastic humor just is hard to understand with your gargantuan brain.
@@rayparker8802 Undertale is NOT lttle known
@@mang058 Yep, this is even bigger brain time
MatPat: talks about Hollow Knight mentioning mossbag
mossbag: YOU COME INTO MY HOUSE WITH YOUR HALFBAKED LORE?!
meh, 3/4 baked. there's a lot of contradictions and team cherry has said before there's no canon lore. If you wanted to say hallownest takes place on the moon you could probably argue that with evidence.
@@Naokarma non canon lore still means that if the existing information available contradicts your theory your theory is probably wrong. Using your example, even if there is no canon lore, if the game gives you enough information to know that Hallownest is located in Earth, you can't just say that is is on the moon
Now, I expect to be getting it wrong here, but what if matpat was thinking it was a memory from the pure vessel/hollow knight? Just an afterthought.
*MossBag
@@Naokarma Actually, since there is no oxygen on the moon, you can't breathe. When you talk to her, No Eyes says "Can't dream... if you're still breathing, little one...", wich means Hallownest bugs breathe. So Hallownest can't be located on the moon.
"zote is the pale king" is actually a better theory
(*peeks over from the dream world* HELLO, WOULD YOU ALSO LIKE TO HEAR THE THEORY THAT ZOTE IS THE RADIANCE?)
@@fantasyshadows3207 zote is hornet,zote is a godseeker,zote is the radience,zote is quirrel,zote is the shade lord,zote is the pale king and zote is the white lady.proof?they never appear in the same room
elderbug is actually hornet, theres a reason we don't see them both
in the same room
@@janovich. by that logic, elderbug could be the Hollow knight reincarnated after being defeated by the Knight, sent back in time. This actually makes more sense because when you give elderbug the delicate flower, he seems to feel better about dreams, maybe because they were forced to deny and ignore their thoughts to fulfill their purpose. And In the godmaster ending, if you give the delicate flower to the god seeker, the void that takes over the godseeker is completely erased by whatever power exists within the flower. This same power could have helped elderbug move on with the trauma of his past life, allowing him to move on. Besides, everyone knows that hornet is actually the flukemarm
@@firespark0774 no youre stupid the white lady is actually mender bug
matpat had a lot to talk about, like rocket science behind Mr mushroom(see what i did there?), hornet's geno types, is it possible for mace bug to survive after false knight battle,...
and he ended up with this
Yeah if there’s already a community around a game figuring the story out Matpat really should do a science theory instead of a lore one
Devs: "lets cut this line of dialogue so it doesn't cause confusion"
MatPat: "THIS CUT LINE OF DIALOGUE MEANS YOU'RE HOLLOW KNIGHT'S FATHER"
This is a general thkng I hate about many theorists. The use of Cut Content as evidence. Cut content, by it's very nature, was removed by the devs. Meaning that it has no bearing on any lore towards the game. It could be used if you sucessfully prove that it still applies. But that's almost impossible. Making it pointess.
i think the reason dream nail dialogue for the hollow knight was cut, and why the same thing happened for pure vessel, was because they were both vessels and their shell seems to block the influence of the dream nail more than for any other reason. this can also be seen in how you are able to access the radiance at all, with hornet forcing an opening in the hollow knight's shell with her needle. this would be a VERY rare case, though, in which cut content could still be considered as intended, and i don't think it applies anywhere else.
unrelated fun fact: if you dream nail a shade or sibling that is not protected by a shell, it dies instantly
Meanwhile Miyazaki: "let's cut this line of dialogue so things aren't TOO easy to understand"
Theorists: "THE MISTRANSLATED ENGLISH INGAME TEXT SAYS THIS"
Missed opportunity to title the video "Debugging MatPat's theory"
@@koffee8743 mantises, moths, beetle, stags, bees... do you want me to tell you more of them?
@@koffee8743 Have you played the game?
Woosh
@@BowlofColdSoup Stags aren't bugs, stag beetles are though.
It took me a couple of seconds to get this lol I’m slow
*MatPat:* what if the knight is the pale king?
*mossbag:* I'm about to end this whole man's career
Heh
Mossbag: Don’t be a fucking asshat in the comment section! I know where you live!
Commenters: proceeds to be an asshat
Hopefully all of this will be explained in the next game
@@istvanvincze7411 I'm sure most people get the gist of it. You're probably right, just not sure why you get so absurdly angry about it. Lighten up dude, the internet it going to be a harsh place if you're going to flip each time you see a grammatical mistake.
Also, since you've got such a hard-on about having correct grammar; it's whether, not wether.
Katherine Beckmann
Joke
a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, especially a story with a funny punchline.
You don't really need to dig deep into the game to undermine MattPat's theory. You just need to talk to Jinn in steel soul mode.
She tells you explicitly that you don't have a soul. Which means it's impossible for you to be a reincarnation. Done and done.
Nahh we can go further than that! Just idk playing the game!! And completing it gives u the full picture of the story n stuff 😂 I feel Matt actually did no research nor even played hollow knight before making his video 🤦♀️
You can find contradictions within his own theory lmao. You don't even need to play the game, MatPat openly contradicts himself within the same video he made
31:36
"Shit that I *mostly* don't have to worry about."
Doesn't show the picture of the semi-annual blood rituals.
That's so beautifully understated.
Eli Elshani
This needs more likes
*haha you fool! i posted the same comment **_2_** hours before you! i can now sue you for stealing my comment! what a foolish mistake by a mortal such as yourself!*
@@demenetori7976 bruh watch out, I got a whole tribe of defense attorneys waiting to go
I'll just have to pay them first
@@movealongplease6891 *My comment got hearted so i have the creator himself as my defense attorney! what do you say about that funny man?*
@@demenetori7976 I yield. Lord mossbag has spoken.
Lmao my sister walked in on me playing it and said “the knight is the pale king” and i got so mad thinking she spoiled it for me, and after finishing it i was so relieved to see she just believed a bs theory
I guess that's one good thing that came out of his video, people who didnt play he game and watched it cant spoil anything because it's wrong!
@@artmynk8999 that's a big brain move by matpat
You have one hell spawn of a sister
Truly a grimmchild
Execute her immediately
Also, if the Knight were the King, they wouldn't need the King's brand to be recognized as ruler. The magic of hallownest clearly knows its king based on presence alone.
how does this have no replies
The knight doesn't just get the brand. He gets the monarch wings, and the kingsoul. And we can knock the king off his throne and sit in it. We're running around and obtaining the trappings of power and essentially *becoming* a new king.
@@toketsupuurin exactly! All that symbolism about us obtaining/salvaging/stealing the marks of a monarch would be for nothing if the vessel was just the old king.
@@toketsupuurin
It'd be kind of hilarious if the Knight WAS the Pale King and just smacking aside his old body. XD
@@toketsupuurin monarch wings could be named that just because of monarch butterflies
It feels like MatPat was trying to shoehorn in common videogame storytelling tropes he's theorized about before in other games, like "the player character is actually multiple important characters" or "someone's trying to achieve eternal life".
That last one is his fnaf contagion spreading
Yeah, This comment summed up what i felt about the theory
"But remember, that's just a THEORY."
His entire point is to make theories, obviously not all of them will end up being stone cold facts
@@littledeer551a theory blatantly contradicted by established material is a bad theory.
@@iheartblock3792
A bad theory is still infact, a theory!
Not all of his are 100% true, or 100% gonna happen. Theories are for fun! To explore options or discovering clues to a story! A bad theory is still infact, a theory!
I love how I can tell that the footage of “union” is Rick Astley
Thats depressing
Bruh same
what can we say, pale king and white lady were no strangers to love
@@kaminothere510
You know the rules, and so do I
Say goodbye
*tosses vessels into the void*
We're no strangers to love
You know the rules and so do I
A full commitment's what I'm thinking of
You wouldn't get this from any other guy
I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling
Gotta make you understand
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
We've known each other for so long
Your heart's been aching but you're too shy to say it
Inside we both know what's been going on
We know the game and we're gonna play it
And if you ask me how I'm feeling
Don't tell me you're too blind to see
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
(Give you up)
(Ooh) Never gonna give, never gonna give
(Give you up)
We've known each other for so long
Your heart's been aching but you're too shy to say it
Inside we both know what's been going on
We know the game and we're gonna play it
I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling
Gotta make you understand
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Despite what everyone thinks, zote is a genius for figuring out how to avoid the radiance simply through his fifty seven precepts
zote = chad
Percept n°56 dreaming bad!
GG no re
MOTHS HATE HIM
This bug exposes secrets to keep your mind from being infected
SEE HOW HE AVOIDS THE RADIANCE USING JUST 57 WEIRD TRICKS
CLICK HERE
I just realised something, Matt Pats hollow knight theory is almost exactly the same as when he pissed off the dark souls community by claiming the ashen one wasn't just some random dude, and same here with him trying to claim the knight isn't some random failed experiment that got loose
Yeah I thought that shot felt familiar. Also, mossbag is very much wrong with MP being receptive to criticism. Just go back to his For Honor tantrum.
Well, the dark souls 3 one holds up a lot better, mostly because the developers don't even know what's going on it that game. Seriously, the lore in that game is a mess if you look at it any closer than a brief summery. The Souls 2 had a similar problem, and Souls 1 is probably the best, but still has a lot of holes, especially with the izalith thing. The problem with both 2 and 3, is that the entire game had to be changed half way through development, so the lore is all just pieces of the original vision patched together in a way that makes some sense. They did well, and the games are still pretty good, but there's enough left to the imagination where some pretty outrageous theories actually have a lot going for them.
Fraser Budd-Brophy
Yeah, I'm no Dark Souls lore master, but his HK theory had me thinking about that Dark Souls theory a lot, as I wondered if his condensed, over simplified theory had wiped away details I never would have discovered on my own as a non fan, just like it did with this theory, which covered a topic that I DID know well.
TheHalogen131
Wait, wasn't For Honor like 3 years ago? I think moss was just saying that he was being receptive to criticism for this theory specifically.
Yeah, you are probably right. And it was 3 years ago, but it still tickles me the very wrong way. I just can't get over it, because it's not as much about game, as it is about history. And history proves him very much wrong.
I like how you provided irrefutable evidence that the knight isn’t the pale king within the first 10th of the video with the shot of the knight and the pale king in the same room but then you just kept going for another 40 minutes.😂
To quote brennan lee mulligan, "sometimes you get it wrong and sometimes You Get It **Wrong**"
I feel one of the issues with the way MatPat viewed the way Hollow Knight was written was that he insisted all characters were simply an instrument of the writers to pour cryptic worldbuilding (dont get me wrong some characters are more than others) instead of characters written to inhabit a world, elderbug has no reason to allude to any deeper world meaning seeing as he is so new to Hallownest that he hasn't even seen the stagways open until the Knight opens them
Probably has something to do with how many Fnaf theories he's made
@@Emily12471 this is so scarily accurate lol
"If you're not a fan of me, hollow knight, or matpat... then what are you doing here?"
I don't know. I have way too much free time.
lmao ive never even played or watched hollow knight playthroughs and i havent seen matpats video i just enjoy matpat's pain
I know right?
Same but after watching this I'm buying this game
Fuckin hate the game
i cant like this comment because it has 69 likes and i dont wanna ruin it
I saw the video and thought, “This is now my personnel head canon.” But when I watched several debunk videos and played through the game myself I realized that the theory is worse than the Ness is Sans video.
Well alright let's not go too far
@@onionking1963, yeah, you’re right.
Yeah lets not speak the theory that shall not be named
Nothing is worse than sans is Ness
He must not be name
9:10 I see that union was very important to the pale king, he truly never gave up on it
Well done! Big brain commentary in response to a big brain reference. The internet is awesome sometimes 😁
Never letting down my expectations
@@HurricaneKXZ and never letting them go
I get the whole "lack of evidence" yadda, yadda, yadda stuff, but the thing I care most about is the artistic side. You are just another Knight. There isn't much that separates the main character from all others and I think that's the point. You're not some chosen savior like The Hollow Knight, you're not some independent warrior like Hornet, you are a nameless nobody, cast aside like all the other nameless nobodies just like you.
I agree with this so much not only because I think it's right, but it's more compelling. It's also.. a pretty BIG part of the story that you could have easily turned out to be like any other of the corrupted spawn you fight, you just happen to have some luck and skill. This makes a compelling narrative. It's less cool if you only win because you were destined to and naturally, genetically better than everyone else.
It's like Rey in Star Wars being Palpatine's relative rather than a nobody. Yeah, the idea of making the Knight a reincarnated King is a cool idea, but it is just a much more compelling story if you are playing as a nobody
@@MisterMistea It's funny you mention that because I LOVED that in Star Wars... uh.. the second one. I loved that she was no one, because it's an eye-rolling detail that everyone important is related in a galaxy, and it says that anyone is capable of great things.
And then, yeah. They couldn't let that slide.
Dude. The last line. Ouch, too close to home my man.
Hornet even takes pity on you, because of this fact. What makes you think you can succeed where the mighty Hollow Knight, the skilled and badass warrior, has failed? Much like Dark Souls, you're another attempt to get it right.
Matt patt is used to be theorizing over fnaf so much, he altomatically doubts everything that the game is saying
I mean After Fnaf You Cant Even Blame him that much but as Other People Pointed out theres a Over 1h long vid going over the Hollow Knight Lore Which is The Problem
Fnaf gave him trust issues 🤣
To be fair he basically wrote the lore for fnaf from what I heard
@@Pihsrosnec i mean, it's not far from the truth
@@Pihsrosnec Not true in the slightest. Just a ridiculous and kinda rude joke, considering if we remove Mat Pat. Scott would have put the things into the game he did anyway.
Damn, I just finished binge-watching all of your videos and then you upload. How great.
Dude, me too! Funny coincidence! ... or is it?
Honestly though, every time someone debunks Mat's theories they're labeled as toxic by some of his fans. And Mat is wrong more often than one would think.
Yeah this is more true than I’d like to admit even with his recent depart from TH-cam. I don’t have a problem with people simply being loyal to their favorite TH-camrs, but it’s almost sort of cultish and almost a bit disturbing imo. Might just be me though idk
I love how the 'union' footage is just a blurred rickroll.
Zote is obviously the reincarnation of the pale king put into a vessel obviously I mean like c'mon the facts are obvious.
Charbomber
Everyone knows Rick Astley was created from the union of two higher beings.
@@DementedDuskull Rick Astley is void.
No, Rick Ashley is obviously silk.
*Astley
We got Rickrolled...
He totally ignored the kingsoul making you like the king.
at least he gave you a credit.
Wait, what do you mean? Are you talking about White Lady's dialogue?
9:08
....iv'e been rickrolled enough to know what your hiding wtf dude
Troy Taschler you can’t fool us
We've all been there...
Saaaaaame
Good i wasn't the only person who could see through the cenorship
dude that shit deserves to be censored
New theory: since the flukes think of mother while charging at you, you gotta be the flukemama
I love how all the "censored" stuff is just blurred Rick rolls
i saw it too
fuck you beat me to it
Game Theory: “If there’s an important character we never see, it’s us. The player character is always inherently special even if it doesn’t look like it”
In this case its an important character that we do see.
To be fair a lot of games pull that shit so people are surprised when that isn't the case lol
When ever I try to do character design I make the most basic and sad backstory
I really like how you were never disrespectful to MatPat throughout the whole video.
As someone who only played the game casually, my takeaway was always just that the vessel either dug his way out of the abyss, or the abyss door opened back up for whatever reason and he just snuck through and wandered around for a while.
Maybe the knight just slipped through when the door was opened to take the hollow knight or any other reason it would be open.
Past me this was stupid and didn’t make sense
HK got on trending. No cost too great.
Perfect xD I love references to pale king's weird ass dialogue
No ads to demonitize
actually if we go by this logic, we should have prevented amtpat from doing this video if we could, considering it is easy to know his theory is going to be wrong even before he does it and maybe even he knows,too since he might have done the video because of trending silksong. So by that logic, he spread misinformation and mossbag can't fix it as his videos are watched less hence why we should have prevented.
Now imagine we could actually prevent it. Then the thanos meme would be like:'' Hardest decisions require the strongest wills'' because we prevented misinformation at the cost of hollow knight's trend. That is the real no cost too great if you ask me.
The only way things can good is basically if mossbag's video gets famous making it a win win sutiation.
@@ismetcancelik5052 You're a brainlet.
he got mossbag to make content, truly a god among men.
wait, was the censored "union", just a blurred rickroll video.
how lewd
Dont know wut u talkin m8, i get pretty aroused just by the mention of that video. Not saying TO SEE IT. Im now pretty erect just by the mere mention of what u have just written.
Yes it is
nice
Did -DID WE JUST GET RICKROLL
I watched the MatPat video before getting the game, and I thought to myself "huh, this theory seems neat and kinda makes sense"
and then I bought the game and played it for 20 hours, after which I thought "that theory makes no sense"
I kinda did the same but i stopped watching it because i didn't want anyone to think i was watching anything cringy, I was.
@markjvp are you defending matpats theory smh my head
@@evanoconnell2597 did you just say shaking my head my head?
Also same but then I bought the game. Actually I found about this amazing game trough matpat
@markjvp A theory lives or dies based on the facts used to support it. I can theorise that all of Hallownest is an illusion created by the all powerful Cornifer, to sell you secretly meaningless maps, but unless it's supported by in-game facts and doesn't contradict them outright, then it's just an objectively bad theory.
Also you literally can't think opposing theories are correct unless you're taking the perspective of "the story is what the audience wants it to mean". If one guy makes the theory that eating our young is a very good idea, and another says maybe not quite actually, there's no middle ground.
If you're gonna partake in internet squabble you oughta at least have opinions.
The Pale King's 3rd form is a much higher being ;
Elderbug
the pale king could turn himself into a pickle,
it would be the funniest shit hollownest's ever seen
...
*I’m Pickle King*
No I’m not sorry.
Actually, Pale King was a BIG long white pickle with a lotta teeth
when the tablets refer to higer being it refers to the pickle
Pickles *are* canon because of the art book
I TURNED MYSELF INTO A PICKLE HORNEEEEET I'M PICKLE KIIIIIIING
“How did vessels escape?”
Given just how many vessels can be seen in the abyss and how large the abyss is, i dont think its that hard to believe at least some managed to find hidden paths out, the whole kingdom is riddled with hidden paths.
Perhaps even released on purpose either as a precaution or by those that felt sympathy for them.
Definitely Deepnest. There's void stuff in Deepnest (sharp shadow, tendrils) and all the dead vessels in Nosks room
@@jstar3382 yep! And some are scattered throughout Hallownest, like the dead vessel in Hornet’s fight or the the Broken Vessel in the Ancient Basin. However it does seem like that Deepnest was the main route of escape, and from there they made their way out.
Side note, but there’s a giant geo cache hidden in Kingdom’s Edge that stretches down to the Ancient Basin (not directly connected but the environment is there, including a bug from the Ancient Basin). However you need Desolate Dive/Descending Dark to get down there, but that could always have been an alternative route for the escaping vessels.
Since wyrms were said to have foresight, I personally like to believe that an exit was purposely left for the Knight to exit through as this was part of the plan all along.
I always thought the "higher beings, these words are for you alone" was the tablets speaking directly to me like a fourth wall break thing lol
Same
That was also a theorie that these messages where there for the players.
it's very plausible, but i think it's at the same time a meta for players and an actual message for those beings in the game, because lore wise that makes sense
MatPat can make a video about Unn being the pale king since Unn, too, is a higher being.
Same
Elderbug's dialogue when you give him the delicate flower makes me cry every time 😭 its too sweet
There is litterally an item that just says NO to this theory, the kings brand.
IF you were the king, it wouldn't say "hallownest shall recognize a new ruler", as YOU'D ALLREADY BE THE RULER
another thing is, NOT all higher beings are on the same level as the pale king, the 3 strongest higher beings are the radiance, pale king and white lady, 2 of them, probally being pale beings
I'd say that the void god is stronger than the Pale King and White Lady by far, seeing as it's called the "God of Gods" by Godseeker and it's able to kill the Absolute Radiance.
@@gabrielc.4906 Slice to shreds*
What about the scarlet flame bat, or the nightmare heart?
Technically, there's more. There's the Pale King, White Lady, and The Radiance, yes, but there's also The Nightmare Heart, Unn, the Void Creature, and it's heavily speculated that the weird Lifeblood Creature is also one. You could argue that the weird giant mushroom thing in Fungal Wastes is also a higher being, but it's very debatable.
@@theaxbowlotl Unn
mossbag, you fool.
Who do you see after the knight and before Zote?
Elderbug.
Elderbug is the Pale King.
ImThatOneGuyIRL, you dumdum.
Who do you see after the knight but before elderbug
BALDUR.
Baldur is the Pale King!
That's crawlid
The stag is the pale king
😂
J Games 5 Fun you numpty.
Who do you see in between the Knight and Balder?
Tiktik.
Tiktik is the pale king.
At the beginning of the video, the voiceclip mossbag uses for the "intro" is Sans speaking. Then slightly later when he restarts and does the intro again, he uses Ness' "Okay" as a subtle reference to the Sans=Ness theory AND I LOVE THAT HIDDEN REFERENCE
Its not hidden tho. The joke was kinda obvious
@@jstar3382 Hush
@@jstar3382 I know, right? Imagine being a moron who didn't get the reference the first time through. Only a total pickle, that's who.
@@General12th or someone like me that has no idea what that theory is, only that it's as probable as Matpats theory about Hollow knight
@@emmad4308 SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING A PICKLE WOULD SAY
Imagine living in the White Palace, waking up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and have to go through all the saws and spikes
Elder Bug: Sit on this bench, it's a nice day today. Shop at the shop. Also, you smell terrible.
MatPat: So this means I'm the king?
Elder Bug: No.
Zote = Radiance
Proof: They never appear in the same room!1!1!
omgomg
True dude
I mean, he is the light of MY life at least.
Don't you dare saying zote is weaker than he actually is
That is more likely than Matpat’s theory, because the Knight and the Pale King do appear in the same room.
@@AshenDust_ True lol
At this point, thinking the player is a reincarnation of the Pale King is Hollow Knight’s equivalent of thinking the Earth is flat.
*hornet is void* 😂
@@pokekiller787x You are not a fool, you are the entire colosseum.
@@TheUaxington lol
Actually, that's more like thinking that the sun revolves around the Earth and the Pope is still infallible. The HK flat earth thing is Hornet is void.
@@TheUaxington - lord fool 2017
This was one of the last of his theories I watched, and for good reason. I barely knew the lore at the time, and yet even I could poke massive holes in his theory
I like how you respectfully debunked matpat's theory without slandering him for no reason
@Detective Pikachu that's what a toxic community is for
@Detective Pikachu they are one and the same aren't they
I dont understand what that means but it was fun
@@owyemen9367 can u please tell me what he said 4 context
@@quincius8638 honestly I forgot
MatPat: The player is the pale king
mossbag: You fool! You've fallen for one of the classic blunders!
Thunder cross split attack!
34:22 Regarding the nursery, I've always thought that this room never actually existed in real life, but that it symbolizes the Pale King's true hopes and wishes. It symbolizes what the Pale King sacrificed to ensure his kingdom's continued existence; his relationship with the Queen, and raising an heir to rule in the future.
The Path of pain secret makes me think that the hollow knight was actually raised in the palace
I know this comment is months old but just want to say that I’m fully subscribing to this train of thought.
It makes the shade’s lullaby a real punch in the gut, going from the gentle melody in the nursery (the king’s dreams of a child) to the discordant shade theme (the reality that he consigned thousands of his children to be hollowed out by the void). That and the chair with the White Lady’s silhouette take on a much sadder tone.
It could also symbolise the greatest flaw in the Pale King's plan: the Hollow Knight was raised as a child. It was trained and tested until it was as strong as it could be, but its father also sat and rested with it after it completed the Path of Pain. It had a nursery where its parents cared for it not as a tool in their plot to stop the Infection, but as their child. The Pale King loved the Hollow Knight and, in turn, the Hollow Knight loved him back, and that love is what made it an imperfect vessel.
Mattpat: You are a king, THE king!
Me: well yeah, obviously. Kingsbrand makes you the king of hallownest.
Mattpat: you are playing as the pale king
Me: wait what? *visible confusion*
Matpat: "It seems you're related to royalty!"
Me: "Well yeah, you're literally one of his kid-"
Matpat: "So you must be the reincarnation of the pale king after he planned out a scheme to self-resurrect via void, self-exile to protect himself from an infection he can apparently cure, then come back to actually cure it!! :)"
Some real big brain moves.
@@Winasaurus why didn’t he just cure it in the first place? That sounds dumb.
"I don't need a third youtuber coming after me."
-Mossbag, before Matpat declares war for his pride
who was the second one, I forgot?
@@kormannn1 Indiemaus
Is Vaatividya for real mad at Mossbag?
Clearly he was not aware of Matpat's previous temper tantrums
@@WobblesandBean Idk whether I'm missing a sarcasm or you actually mean to ask the question but if you're actually wondering their enemies or not the answer is obvious no.
Like both the comment he uses to make this joke and his tone when he makes this joke clearly suggest they're either friends or at least doesnt hate each other.
41:40 How could you just run up and kill Myla like that and give us no warning you absolute monster.
Ohhh, bury my mother, pale and slight,
bury my father with his eyes shut tight!
Bury my sisters, two by two,
and then when you're done, let's bury me toooo!
😔✊
Matpat: *makes Hollow Knight theory using pieces of dialogue without the whole context*
mossbag: _C O W A B U N G A I T I S._