How to install crown molding on a vaulted cathedral ceiling WITHOUT transition piece
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ย. 2015
- Presented by Frank Fredericks Custom Homes, this video explains how to install crown moulding on a vaulted or cathedral ceiling without using a 3rd piece (transition piece) as every other instructional video shows. This method can be used with most traditional vaulted ceilings without issue and looks much cleaner and more integrated than using the transition piece.
Excellent video. I've been installing crown the last 2 days and now onto a vaulted kitchen tomorrow. Most experienced guys that make videos on youtube complicate the process to a point where the average person is confused. I find it doest need to get sooo damn complicated. Spitting out numbers and formulas and backwards, upside-down, sideways, inside out, this , that, and so on. Videos like this help soo much. Straight forward,to the point, and clearly presented in a timely manner that people can retain. Excellent job! I find that making a mockup of the inside 90° angle helps too. It's nice to have the angle in your hand and test it where your putting it. Also great idea for where to mark on the wall as a point to cut to . Thanks for the video!
As someone who's done a very small amount of crown and is in the beginning stages of traying my vaulted ceiling. I'm already sweating over wasting a ton of cash of crown. Thanks for this video. wish me luck
Good luck friend-o!
This actually works. I'm blown away. A little caulking is some areas and it looks perfect!
Nice! I have been doing crown molding for years up north but not vaulted ceilings! This helps me so much. Thank you!
I'm glad to see someone on here cutting crown laying down. Everyone thinks there's only one way to cut crown and claims it's the easiest way. Thank you for showing this....
Well, you are twisting this Crown molding when doing this, This is not the right way at all.
Excellent. I gave up today trying to figure out what angles to use on my compound miter saw and couldn't find a good explanation of how to make the corners work. I found this video and 7 minutes later, I'm ready to tackle this project tomorrow. Thanks for the common sense, to the point video.
So how did it turn out?
@@normgraham6658 worked great. Small pieces got tricky, but longer runs worked great.
Yes this might work with low degree angles. This will not work on high angle degree ceilings.
You will also have a gap at the bottom that you will have to use a lot of caulk to fill.
I agree he has twist the crown for it to work. May appear in the video it is right but it is not. To install crown properly that cannot be done. .. if you think it can be done. Try something simple like a 1x4 it's impossible.
47 year Master Carpenter
The best advice for crown molding cuts, thank you so much guys.
I live in Florida and my ceilings are a small vault, so this will definitely work for me. I'll be doing crown in my own home, and can't wait to try this method out, just waiting for my crown to be delivered. Thank you so much for sharing this with us.
I am installing Crown molding on my bolted ceilings. I have been looking all night for this video. You guys are kings! Thank you so much I am now subscriber!
No they are not. They are clowns that do not know do math hence they bend crown and look like bs.
Please note: Some comments below complain that we did not mention how to cut the angle at the peak. The reason for this is that all ceiling pitches are different and moreover this is a standard miter. You simply measure the angle, divide by two and cut to that angle like any other joint. For example, if you have a 60 degree angle, you just cut each piece at 30 degrees. As Robert says at 3:13 "We've bisected the angle for the peak cut."
Keep in mind this is not a video on how to cut standard miters or basics on how to install crown molding. We are assuming you already know how to cut miters for standard joints. This video is meant just to explain the joints where a flat ceiling meets a vault.
Additional comments say that this method won't work on higher pitched ceilings. We are a Florida based home builder where roof pitches are typically low. While this method will work on basically any pitch, we agree that higher pitches may look better with the use of plinth blocks or a third piece. However his method will work in the majority of applications and save many people valuable time and effort.
Thanks for the post. Very practical method, where applicable. I too feel that the finished look is much cleaner than others requiring the transitional piece.
Frank Fredericks Custom Homes
Frank, simple explanation
plumb a line down from center measure the 4" down or use the same template then measure length done.
Not cutting that 3rd piece was enough for me to figure out the pitch!!!! Lol that’s easy and I’m not and expert, I just bought my saw today, what a few hours of your vids , and crown was installed on a vaulted ceiling!
@@johnstockwellmajorsmedleyb1214 Same template? Really?
@@zeke112964
Run the template with the leg up the rake
Basically ignore the joint of the template and place it so the 90deg cut end is at the ridge,
Said another way would be,
flop the jig leaving the joint down the rake and the free 90deg leg up to the ridge,
Mark top and bottom just like always and the lines should bisect themselves
Place the legs up at the same position and mark where the 2 lines bisect each other that is the angle.
Top of the piece should stop at the predetermined ridge
The bottoms will bisect each other
You have physically created a plumb line and that is the bisected angles of the ridge angle
Thanks for this video, I normally just install crown on cabinets and only occasionally around entire rooms but landed on a job where I needed to install some very large stacked up crown on vaulted ceilings and wasn't sure if I was going about it correctly. Everyone keeps telling me I HAVE to do a transition piece but I think that looks like a hack job especially in a 7 million dollar house........ I found that I could tilt the crown on the low wall just a little and adjust my miter by a couple degrees to get it to match up with the crown coming down from the vault perfectly, it worked on my test pieces but I wasn't feeling fully confident that I could go ahead and start cutting based on my own findings since everyone was swearing up and down there had to be a transition piece...anyway glad to find your video to confirm! in my case the gap below will be larger because of a steeper vault but i have a couple other flat moldings going under it so it wont matter. Thank you,great video!
it won't work with steep vaults though.
You are absutly correct!
actually it does! but only if there is another trim piece going below to cover the gap it creates. I recently was in a situation where some very high steep vaulted ceilings needed to be crowned and they did not want transition pieces. it came out beautifully but in this case there was a flat dental molding below the crown and another layer below that so the gap was completely covered.looks way better than some odd transition piece.
I find that a combination of coped joints, using long runs to twist the board (works with MDF real good) and accurate angle calculations make most transitions possible without gaps. The trick is to know which end to cope, which runs are best averaged using a straight miter joint and when you need to get creative and use 2 different cut degrees for one joint; i.e., 22.5 degrees on one side and 33.8 on another. The seams don't line up perfect but it's better than using a bunch of transition pieces where a single joint would suffice. But I've been known to spend 30 minutes figuring out a transition angle.
AsTheWheelsTurn
Steep Vaults just require a quick cope, or belt/grind a smooth tranny opposite the bulge. 12 n 12 vault Cope Cope Cope the old ways are still the best.
I liked, we old timers rock !!! that can be written on a resume because it's experience. Well done.
Thanks for the post. But what wasn't covered in this video was how to cut the angle at the peak of the first wall-ceiling. I had to lay the crown flat on the saw with fitter pieces which were at 6 1/2 degrees to find my angle. Other than that your method worked like a charm.
Thanks for the tutorial. You may have saved us a lot of work.
Yay!! Good for you!! You are so smart!! I wouldn't have ever known if it wasn't for this guy..
Dang, sure wish that I had seen this a year ago!! Gonna try this technique out tomorrow in my kitchen (been putting it off lol)
I agree with this method as I just finished another house today using the same method. Walls and ceilings can be so crooked I like to use TP 10 glue to pre glue niches and pockets. Molding stays straight when the walls and ceilings aren't. Just some caulking to fill the gaps. I know its a real surprise that walls are not flat in a house. ANY house.
Nice helpful video.
u guys rock im about to do one ceiling almost identical and u guys just make my day !!!
how
ㅎㅎㅎ very simple,very good tricks.thank you so much sir.
This was a big help for me! I wish you guys could come and do my ceilings. 😇❤️
at 2:48 if he got rid of that gap at the top the gap at the mitre would be visible, good job holding it tight so we don't see the gap
I personally cope all inside corners and don’t use the third piece. In steep angles though you have to use the third piece. To steep a cut. Run triangle behind molding to nail to.
"SAWSET PROTRACTOR" is the most accurate miter finder out there. No Math. No gimmick.
Do the comparison. Great for cutting on the flat.
Gotta love all the experts in the comments
Finally someone who knows what they are doing
Opposite they do not know how to cut transition piece and hence they are twisting crown.
I came across Cut-n-Crown gigs. They have worked great for me! I never have to move the saw.
Thank you for your advise, I will try .
No glue and no coping?
nice to see some saw settings, you missed the most important part.
"saw settings"
Me, too!
“Standard angle” “Simple”
pig in the sky looks like a angel
This is a great method KIS thanks guys
My first vaulted ceiling job I racked my brain for hours about that third piece. I don't remember how I came up with just doing like a regular inside corner but looks way better than the third piece abortion
Thank you so much for sharing, now I won't need therapy next time I attempt this!
Question for @Frank Fredericks Custom Homes: 9 ft Ceiling that transitions down to an 8'-1" wall that angle runs for 35". I want to stop the crown molding at that wall. How do you join the two angles along the run without a transition piece? I seem to remember a Fine Homebuilding article about this but cannot find it.
looks nice! ill have to try out that technique.
Nice video good ideas learning something new today
This works in some instances but in others you’ll want the crown to match the ceiling lines. I do think this does look better for the most part but it only works by making the crown out of square. In your example it looks great (except for the flat peak where you can see the ceiling line go from almost nothing to 2”) in a room like your example you’ll never know and to be honest, that’s the best you’ll ever going to get a room with extreme vaulted ceiling. I feel crown is unnecessary but if you have to do it in that case I would use this method. In some other high end cases you have to keep it square and can’t chest the corners cause you’ll think whatever’s on the wall isn’t level
Watch Ron Paulks videos on this subject. 👍⚒️
That's what I'd suggest also 👍
Vaulted ceilings require on of two adjustments that seem to be ignored here. Either the "spring angle", usually from the combination of 38 and 52 degrees on the edges, has to be changed or the top angle will not fit closely to the ceiling but be peeled away. Usually this is not visible but sometimes it is. I try to recut the that angle to fit tightly to the ceiling. Just a suggestion.
Great job! But usually what I do, is get the same profile in a smaller width and cope in to the flat wall crown. It’s just how I was taught. I learned that from the old rake board crown/cornice moulds used to die in to the old wood gutters. I was lucky enough to been taught by an old timer who used to specialize in that. Just reverse it for the interior.
But great job all the same, boys!
Go buy a stud finder man. i also prefer coped corners they hold a tighter joint over time. I do like the template idea it makes the vaulted ceiling a lot easier to deal with.
yeah. cope the corners. although he is painting it so you can cheat it i guess. but definately forget the stud finder. set your table saw at a 45 and rip a few long corners off of a 2x4 and screw those into the top plate to the entire wall/cieling corner. then you dont have to search for studs, youll always hit the 8 foot triangle of spruce. plus you wonthave to do that silly method hes doing of angling nails in opposing directions. if youre doing that, then the only thing holding that stuff up is drywall, and thats some hacky shit.
Coping is for carpenters who can’t cut tight miters. To keep a tight joint cut your piece long, nail both corners first and work your way from the middle outwards. I been doing it this way for 30 years. Never had a joint fail.
Mr Geronimo good god man. that is dumbest thing ive ever heard. coping is for carpenters who cant cut tight miters?! coping is the professional way to do it, cause there are no gaps at all. its perfect. it takes an extra step, but doing things correctly usually does.
Mr Geronimo never had a joint fail. maybe nobody called you back cause it did fail. you routinely go back to your houses and inspect them years later?
Eric Gustin Seriously? Riddle me this. How does coping a joint prevent the material from drying and shrinking? A coped joint is just as susceptible to expansion and contraction as any other joint. And you say my comment was dumb?
To answer your other post. I always follow up with my clients. Months and yes, years later. I guess that’s why I never have to hunt down work.
Wow this is good makes it look so easy
I love how you showed how you got an what the peak angle at the ridge was instead of saying something like we dissected the angle...😂😂😂😂
Lovely job
Thanks alot Sr.
If you want to have less of a caulk joint you can change the angle crown on the table saw.bottom angle on straight pieces top and bottom for the pitch angles that way you dont have1/4 gap to caulk .
Good job grandpa 👍
These guys clearly live by the old adage:
"A little putty and a little paint make a carpenter what he ain't."
Who's John Galt or, " A little spackle and and some caulk to make the carpenter that you are not"
Or Do your best, caulk the rest
Kevin Smith.... do your best, putty the rest lol
Caulk and paint hides what it ain't.
How does this differ between different projection angles whether it be 38 or 45 especially when using a smaller blade slide saw and cutting on diamond and circle settings. And is this method able to replace the mitre with coping?
We don't have to install these into the whole house do we? Would it look nice just in the rooms and not some of the hallways?
Nailing blind into Sheetrock is going to get you into trouble. Changing the spring angle also makes that crown look like crap.
Wish u were at my house right now because I am having a hell of a time doing this. I have done many different things that come out great or at least good enough, but I'm almost defeated with this one.
This is a good technique for painted crown I see comments on the nailing,, he is nailing it correctly by angling nails at opposing angles , this creates a v shaped wedge and will never come out. Good info but, probably not for severe pitches and stained crown
Does the twisting trick work the same with a high pitch vault..Does it work regardless of the pitch ??
Thank God! I hate cutting that 3rd piece!
does that work for steeper ceilings.
Show us how to do that on a 120 or 130 degree ceiling! You are about a 90-100 degree ceiling. There is a lot of pressure on the molding and will eventually pop some cracks. Lots of nail holes to fill!
do you work in california? I need some crown moulding.
would this work for a joint that one wall is 90 degrees to the ceiling that attaches to a wall that is 45 degrees to the ceiling?
Kinda Failed this one. Pause it at 5:52. Over the peninsula top of crown he was on one side of the ceiling ridge peak , then the other side of the wall (outside corner) he was on the other side (kitchen side). Just twist it in push it up tight and toe nail it in to the drywall, then caulk it in right? Bet that didn't look great up close. Differences of opinion of quality job. To some this is not a big deal, but some higher end jobsites that is not acceptable. The spring on the outside corner is different then the inside corner maybe (transitional piece could have cured this possibly), so they didn't stay perpendicular to the ceiling transition ridge peak? Or maybe we'll assume it was bad framing out by a couple inches? Doubtful but possible. No nailing into studs which is easy with a magnetic stud finder and less likely to hit romex, Pex etc because nailguards should be in place. No glue that I saw inside corners, and not bothering to rip or plane the back of the crown so you dont have that huge gap behind the crown against the wall. That caulking will fail eventually, we have all seen what a 1/4" caulk job looks like down the road. Takes just as long to caulk it as it does to rip the back off just a little. Guess its the painters problem, then the homeowners in 5 years. This is typical track home piecework install, not finish carpentry. There is a reason for transitional pieces. Not always necessary, but sometimes they are a must depending on framing, pitch of lid and profile of crown. This job they were necessary. The steeper the rake, the more it is needed. Your mileage may vary job to job. BTW at least glue your corners if anything.
Josh Briere you do realize that two top plates mean you'll hit everywhere 95% of the time, right?
If you're gonna ridicule someone's work and call it shoddy, at least think of why this method would work in this application.
"two top plates"
Possibly, but with that wide a molding I think it would take three! On my job, the guy installed the ceiling below the top plates.
Also would add that those 'stud finders' are not the Bee's Knees.
I think this was a great video....i kinda agree with Josh tho. No glue in the corners? What if it was stain grade work, that job would go from ok to poor super fast. Caulking anywhere is ugly. Transitions should be easy to cut for an advanced carpenter. A beginner wouldn't attempt crown on a ceiling with these sort of transitions. It's easier and less work also nicer work, to RIP the spring angle on the crown, down than to leave a mess all over the walls and gaps that will deff show in a few days. I also want to thank everyone reading this that uses caulk to make your work better.
Well buddy U have not tried but i will tomorrow. You make it look very easy hopefully it goes well. How do I set my miter?
Very helpful
Good video thanks - but no safety glasses when using a nail gun is nuts!
How you going to fix the dents in your crown from beating the hell out of it?
What about the gap on the bottom of the right half of the corner?
how does a top and bottom return look for chair rail on stairs??
U are making yor cuts FLAT on your saw.
Will this procedure work if u cut it traditionally, back of saw(fence) your wall,- Table your Ceiling?
my uncle Bob is the best at this kinda of stuff.
Great video and great technique! I am installing molding in a mobile home....almost all vaulted ceilings....
Can someone explain to me how to make the template he uses. Is it held together with glue? Nails? I have the pieces cut, etc. but how do I fasten them together?
frankandcathy just glue, then shoot a couple Brad nails thought the meat (top and middle of crown).
Adding to Jeffrey Rimmer's great comment: for all of the joints, using a nail, nail set, utility knife or similar tool, create small depressions in the surface areas to be glued, this strengthens the joint remarkably. Make the depressions in the thicker area of the joint, staying away from the edges or thin areas. Also, don't skimp on the glue, use Titebond, in my opinion the best, for wood, MDF and even the newer foam mouldings.
Carpenters joiners always use glue and your joins should be bridged by backing to avoid cracking.
what the angles on break for the pitch and angle for the miter per slope 3-9/12.... different crown different angles. or how about a cafert ceiling without hips?
how did u do the center cut were the vault meets
I will stick to my transitions.it adds craftsmanship.and no gaps for more caulking.thanks anyways.
Steeper the pitch the more the projection you lose which can detract somewhat from the look but i agree it is better than a transition strip method. Hopefully he found some studs and rafters after his teXas tacking. Cheers
What was your installer shooting? Brads?
Did you manage to hit any framing timbers when installing a crown and fastening it what are you just Chinese toggle everything
the video doesnt show everything step by step obviously ... its just to explain the joints where a flat ceiling meets a vault.
how was that outside vaulted down cut @ 5:36 what are the angles?
I laugh when a carpenter says you can't crown a cathedral .Good job glad to see someone who knows what their talking about,
"this video explains how to install crown moulding on a vaulted or cathedral ceiling"
Really ice work! However, lack of CC and poor audio 'lost me' as to the 'explanation!'
He appears to be advising we ignore the vault angles and cut everything as if working to a flat ceiling. I would suggest getting him a better microphone and a whiteboard so we can be certain as to the angles involved and the cuts required.
Or, send him over to my place ASAP!
Is this a flex type of crown? because if using wood crown molding this would not work. Also, would not work if the slope (rake) is steep. I don't know educate me
Holy nail shooting Batman does he get paid by the nail!
I wonder if he is shooting 4 nails at opposing angles because he isn't trying to find a stud/joist?
just firing away and hammering on the molding, my boss would fire me on the spot.
0:36 ... you know what happens when we 'assume'. Nothing should be 'taken for granted' in an instructional video.
So the actual spring angle is off or adjusted or moved?
Yes, modifying the spring angle of one or both pieces until the respective bottom and top points of rotation match up is the key. In the method shown in the video, the rake piece retains the standard spring angle. Therefore, the point where its bottom edge would make contact with the inside corner would be too low if the level piece were also installed with the standard spring angle. To make the bottom edges of the pieces line up, the spring angle of the level piece is tilted up more vertically than standard. This causes its bottom edge to drop down enough to line up with the rake piece. (This angle change also causes the gap between the bottom edge of the level piece and the wall, as mentioned in the video.)
Alternate modifications of the spring angle(s) can also work, so long as they result in the bottom edges of both the level and rake piece lining up at the inside corner. However, although there may be arguable advantages, none of these alternates is as simple to understand and execute as the one in the video. The highlight of the video's method is that it allows cutting of the mitered joint in the standard manner (not shown.) A slight disadvantage is that it maximizes the gap between the bottom of the level piece and the wall. For stain-grade work this slight gap can be eliminated if desired by beveling the back side of the level piece's bottom edge (effectively altering its spring angle.) Note that so long as the level piece is installed with the modified spring angle determined by the template, the rake piece can be cut and coped into the level piece in the normal manner, if desired.
Michael Schuler - As an aging career contractor in another trade but an inspired novice carpenter I can say that your explanation is worded and constructed to perfection. I have a reasonably good understanding of "upside down and backwards" as it applies to cutting crown, and have developed decent coping skills. Being a perfectionist at heart it took me a while to get up the nerve to start installing a 7-1/2" two-piece crown but after building numerous 18" prototypes I finally got it. Trimming/adjusting angles for out of square corners was actually quite rewarding. My 2,200 feet of crown moulding was painted, but I tried to install it as if it were to be stained. Rolling the crown in the saw to adjust cuts was really fascinating too! I've got one room left, which is of course, a double vault/cathedral ceiling. Your well-crafted explanations turned a lot of dim lights on for someone who does not see moulding from a spatial perspective. Many thanks!
How steep can the ceiling angle get before the bottom seam gets too big for caulk? Can you rip the back of the molding to compensate? Nice simple technique with the sample corners for layout.
binnsh most professional trim carpenters do this. It's also a good idea to mark the ceiling where they meet and snap a chalk line..follow the line when installing as the eye is drawn to that area when siting. Looks much more professional
+Deplorable Canadian I would hate to see your crown molding jobs red chalk all over the place while really more work than is acceptable
Yeah got to say this way just looks and feels better and easier.
Wish I could see what you are doing on the angle marking.
Does this work on uneven celings or walls? Were all your corners perfect 90 degrees?
This works in tract housing or DIY jobs. There are a number of ways to do this, but some methods will keep you working piecemeal and hourly. Watch carpentry tv for another view. Take a few trips through upscale homes. Do what you see there.
Compensated by caulking.
What sort of paint did you use for the crown moulding?
Shit loads of spackling
I was able to not use a third piece on the small vaults, but on the larger ones, there was no way to do it without the transition piece as the angle was too large.
You nicely hide the slope transition over the kitchen peninsula at the start of the run only to have it peek back out 3/4s of the way in that run because of the twist.
My point exactly.
bcause of the twist and the fact that thos nails arent hitting anything but drywall. lol thats why hes angling them in opposing directions. i thought this video was supposed to show us HOW to do something. not how NOT to.
no wood glue in the corner seam?
Why didn't they show the caulking process. TV tricks always work but no one ever shows ALL the real challenges that you can come across NOR how to overcome them. How do you go to showing gaps in the install to a filled in AND painted process and tell me it's the next day and completed. MAJICAL! LOL
no coping? get ready to come back and caulk when winter comes,an adjusted cope would take care of this without setting the crown on a slant its not meant to sit on,and relying on caulk. and show us a 6/12 pitch id enjoy seeing that
At what degree should the angle be?
Strictly speaking and from an architectural viewpoint, it's a mistake to run crown molding up a raked ceiling, since crown mold is part of the entablature (embellished horizontal structure, supported by columns.)
Just because the other elements are not present, is no excuse to deviate from proper placement of the crown or Cornice mold.
If the ceiling were steeply pitched, you'd see how impossible and ridiculous it would appear.
That only works on a very low pitch ceiling. If the pitch is more the crown almost lays flat on the adjacent wall.
This may work on a 100 degree by bending the molding and using a lot of nails. Lets see you do this on a 130 degree ceiling.