I am surprised that anyone goes to these discussions anymore without printing a stack of 10-20 research papers. I’d be in there passing out my bibliography like “no it’s cool I have receipts, here are my cited sources so you can’t lie your way back to being a supremacist.”
For the majority of 2019, I used to work for an intersex rights organisation. My main job was to write social media posts. My very first article was about the Caster Semenya case. She is not trans, she has a naturally elevated testosterone level. She has repeatedly been forced to either lower her testosterone levels with medication, or not compete. They are forcing her to either underperform, or not perform at all. Forcing someone to undergo a "normalising" treatment goes against human rights. I am glad that Eli brought up how every professional athlete has some sort of advantage over others. This is a fact that is often ignored or even denied. I think a possible solution might be to let go of gender or sex based sports entirely, and instead have professionals come up with a system to assess every professional athlete, in order to put them into more-or-less leveled competition classes. Those classes can be based on a variety of things: leg length, arm length, overall body height, testosterone levels, testosterone receptiveness, muscle/fat ratio, weight, etcetera.
And that way it can be specialized for each sport too, because some traits can have a really large effect on performance in certain sports and be relatively inconsequential for others. Doing this could actually really expand the groups of people who are able to compete at high levels in their sport anyway, which I’d actually love to see. I mean, wouldn’t it be cool to see a basketball team of short people? If you’re talking about biological differences, I feel like being as specific as possible (rather than separating based on what is a pretty vague and arbitrary line) is the way to go with sports.
In MMA where they literally have to be in the same weight class to compete, Fallon Fox, the first-ever transgender fighter, suffered the first loss of her professional MMA career back in 2013. Fallon Fox was TKO'd in the third round of a featherweight title fight by the current UFC fighter Ashlee Evans-Smith. She suffered a number of other defeats over the years. She never took a title. So, a transwoman has LITERALLY had her ass kicked by regular women in a physical confrontation she TRAINED for.
I know someone who competes at the state level and she has had to go on hormones and have a letter from her Dr so that she can compete because her testosterone level is naturally too high. She also has endo and so this means that she can't go on birth control because of the hormones that she is already on which is usually the treatment method for the endo (can't just use birth control because they don't have the testosterone blockers in them).
my sister (cis) is a volleyball player at a very high level, but she has always struggled to find spots on teams because she is only 5'9". I say "only" because most recruiters won't even look at a player that's not at least 5'10", and if you are under 6' then you need to be absolutely exceptional, and only then for very select positions. My sister had numerous colleges tell her that if she were 3" taller, they'd offer her a full ride scholarship with no hesitation. Those same schools often went on to recruit players that were 6'+ but that my sister had routinely beaten and clearly out-skilled. Biological advantage exists within cis women athletes as well. To exclude all trans women because of (often misconceived) biological advantage is ridiculous because the highest level cis athletes also hold "unfair" biological advantages. I once asked my sister how she felt about the potential of playing against a trans woman at volleyball (I myself am trans so she's a lot more knowledgeable about the data and science behind trans inclusion in sports than most cis people) and she asked "would she be the same height as me?" and I said "for arguments sake lets give her three inches on you" and she said "I'd crush her." So... there you go.
Yes this exactly, I'm also 5'9 I was crushed when I stopped growing and could no longer play the position I'd trained for years to play in higher levels. It had little to do with skill and everything to do with height
Im sure if Brock Lesnar said he was a woman and was fighting in the UFC division all hell would break loose. Why? Because he will go undefeated until he retired.
@@mariagiusit Easily, as this person is trying to compare the difference between cis women as if it's the same with trans women. Spent 6 years in the army and not once did a women beat me in combatives. Yet I am to believe a trans women is equal to a cis women when it comes to sports. Not going to happen as my experience says otherwise.
@@vtomb8618 sports are usually divided in skills and strength, nobody wants a trans woman to wrestle or box cis woman. sports like swimming, skateboarding, badminton and cycling are different so many woman have previously defeated cis males.
Petition for vice to release the whole 5 and a half hours of footage. We aren't able to watch the video in the right context without all the exchanges leading to what has been released. Heart you Samantha!
They can't. Yelda Ali and Eli fucked up, turning Pear and Sydney point make sense. It's also the reason why Sydney talked about others cutting Pear off during transwoman in woman sport moment.
They don't care, it's about hate, maintaining a victim complex and feeling put upon, they would rather ignore what doesn't meet their approval and world view. Even if you showed them a 4 ft tall size 6 petite trans girl they would still claim a 6 ft tall size 16 stocky female is at a disadvantage to her.
Serena Williams is one of the heaviest female in tennis and she is only 160 pounds , 40 pounds less than average men tennis player, having male in women sports is nuts
@@sophiepooks2174 Well biological males do have an advantage though. My brother is 13, I'm 20. I'm taller, he's very skinny so I'm probably about 20 pouns heavier than him and he's as strong if not stronger than me since he started puberty.
@@Black-io1uc You do realize thats literally the testosterone right? If your brother started blocking his testo, he would not grow stronger than average woman. If he goes through male puberty, he will grow strong, but if he later started HRT, he would revert back to pretty much average female lvl. Human bodies are complicated, I think they believe that some advantages stay after HRT, but some problems also arise. For example, trans woman might keep bigger and heavier body, but as the muscle strength goes down, do you think its a good thing? Same muscle strength with average woman, but bigger and heavier body? Might slow you down. There is clear evidence that transwomen's performance drops significantly after HRT, so you can't compare biological male to a trans woman on HRT. Everyone knows males are biologically advantaged, the only question is, if HRT makes it fair or still leaves too much advantage. At the moment, it seems fair enough to me. I haven't heard a single case where a transwoman was clearly overpowered in sports, the right wingers make noise about some cases every now and then, and all cases I looked into, the transwomen sometimes win, sometimes loose against cis women. I'm not too confident in my sports knowledge, but I tried going through these transwomen's times/performances, and compared them to other women competing in the same sports, and they really don't do that much better. Normally the fuss starts when they win 1 race or something, and then you look into their history, and that 1 time is literally the only time they won against cis women.
Hello Samantha, I am a german mom ( 52 years old) so at first sorry for my miserable englisch. I like your channel very much and I wish you a happy new year. I am really shocked about young people and there behavior. Today my son( trans ) and his non binary friend are happy but it took a long time and it makes me angry and sad to hear the stupid arguments against there love and existens. On this way I wish all people the luck everyone deserve.
Pearl - "What barriers are holding back women today?" "Um, I'm disabled" "Um, I'm black" "Um, I'm trans" "Um, the gender pay gap" Sweet mother of God, give me strength.
Yeah and then the dominican woman said that abortion is a barrier. So don't forget about that. You also need to realize that Pearl is a medium so she knows what she's doing against normal women. She tried to frazzled them with that question until the lady told her that not having pro choice is a barrier holding women back. And she is right. She just couldnt think on the spot when asked because Pearl again is a medium who is good at asking specific questions against normal women.
@@animecookies8784 Ah, the infamous abortion issue, a personal feminist favorite. Yet, abortion is not drawn down male/female lines, which Pearl continues to push in regards to barriers, but rather religious/political lines. Many women oppose abortion, many men favor abortion. A little Government 101 lesson is necessary here, Our politicians, from the president, senators, house reps, hell, even our city councils, are ELECTED officials. Now with 53 percent of voters being woman, passing laws favoring abortion would be a slam-dunk if all women marched in lock-step with feminism. Yet, they do not, thus abortion is not a female right, per se, but rather a feminist PERCEIVED right. Big difference. You see, you have made the most common mistake made by feminists today. That you represent women, you do not, you represent yourselves. A small, yet quite vocal, vile and viscous subset of society that few take seriously today. Seventy percent of women today refuse to identify as a feminist. Young women in particular. Women are abandoning your cult in droves. Why is this? Have women had a sudden desire for inequality. Of course not, you silly goose, you. It is because feminism has lost its way, devolving into little more than man-hate and eternal oppression/victimhood of spoiled Western women, the most privileged and entitled subset in the history of the world, yet whom still whine incessantly about a society that caters to their every demand. Kinda like you and those feminists on this panel are doing right now. Who'd a thunk?
@@trumpanzeehunter9505 The modus operandi of feminism - simply screech "RACIST" or "SEXIST" or "HOMOPHOBIA" the second someone says anything counter to your dogma. Is that what's going on here? Seems like it. You are boringly predictable. Yawn.
@@trumpanzeehunter9505 What are you even talking about? You don’t have to like Pearl not even a little to know she asked a relevant question and they had an extremely hard time answering it, even though that question should be very easy for them to answer since they’re claiming that they’re oppressed in developed countries simply because they are women. They brought up race, disability etc, as if there were no disabled men of color.
Yup, transandrophobia, I don't feel very welcomed in the trans community because when we speak about our unique experiences we're told to shut up because we have "male privilege" and advocating for trans men's rights makes you a men's rights activist, like I literally get cis guys approaching me and creeping on me and I have no authority over my own uterus, but I'm a man so that totally means I have male privilege...got it
I know right most people would talk more on trans women because they like to pick on them a lot and mock them cuz for those terfs it's funny to them to always attack trans women for just existing so it's a double standard right there of sexism.
I agree the reason why it’s always trans women it’s bc like the other comment said is to mock them n stuff but I’d like to see a video where it’s trans men instead of
imagine noticing the red flag of using the term “biological man”, but missing the red flag of ignoring the “cis-woman’s revolution” by not allowing their spaces to exist
Cis woman are rare in feminism, only boss bae exist. White cis women are even more rare now, only boss bae exist. White Cis Male are non, only simp… Trans woman are trending cuz they are more advertis-able. Let’s Biological Men compete in Female Sport! They love men beat their records far miles away. Why we so intrigued about this? They internally want it so bad, don’t stop it 🎉😂❤ Tran woman are woman ❤️, world population are enough with human already. Come on elites need to make money over here 🎉❤$
It’s not ciswoman. It’s a made up term to push this agenda. They are woman. It’s offensive to call people cismale or cisfemale. When a trans woman goes to the dr he gets treated for male diseases and issues not female. If trans people were the gender they are choosing then the term trans wouldn’t be needed. People have lost their minds and ignore science
Pearl is such a pick me girl! The issues of Trans women in sports having advantages or taking away women's opportunity has been debunked over and over! As a Cis-Het feminist I wish the debate ended at 'Trans Women are Women'. These women with internalized misogyny think their personal experiences are facts, they refuse to listen to other side and other lived experiences.
I saw a movie last year called Pearl, where the woman in it named Pearl was a serial murderer. And I'd still rather hang out with her than the Pearl in this video.
@@ericblough491 I'm sure your favorite child raping white nationalist Christian at The Daily Wire told you that, but if you use Google for anything other than pictures of trans people to draw devil horns on in MS Paint you'll find that you are quite incorrect.
Peral is Correct in everything she says. You and those who call her a "Pick Me" are jealous. You know she is correct and can't argue against her. Just like the screeching harpies of feminists did in the panel. Transwomen HAVE stolen Real Women's sports oportunities. Your Claim of debunking is a out right activist lie. YOU are Triggered. YOU are the one who can't argue against the logic and reason of women like Pearl.
First off, what a childish non-researched response. You have no idea who I am or what I am. Your ignorance comes across loud and clear. I base statements on data and fact. You on the other hand obviously base it on emotion and nothing else.@@arklestudios
When pearl said the thing about a transwoman of the same height, she meant an athletic transwoman, not someone who doesn't even like sports and not someone who says they would cancel sports
I agree, and I'd also like to add that, although I'm aware that athletes must meet certain requirements in order to be eligible to compete, I also think that there are some biological benefits and drawbacks for transgender athletes. For instance, it wouldn't be fair if a male boxing champion decided to transition and enter the women's division after identifying as a woman. A transman competing against biological men is another example. Do you believe that individual should be treated fairly? Because sports are skill-based, it is unlikely that men and women have similar skills. I can only conceive of one solution: they can still compete, but only in terms of biological sex. I could only come up with two options: either way, they can compete, just in the division of biological sex. They compete biologically, yet they are still acknowledged as they identify themselves. They can even hold their own sporting events that are reserved exclusively for them if they still don't believe that they are accorded equal rights.
@@TaeeePoop There's no way in hell a trans woman boxer on HRT could beat her old professional male competition. Estrogen and lack of testosterone kills performance like you wouldn't believe. Separate events would be pointless because there's so few trans athletes in the first place. Not enough to make for a compelling to watch game. At the end of the day sports still rely on ticket sales and sponsors.
Pearl is used to having these sessions where she can't be silenced because its her show, and even when she is the interrupter she will threaten to kick someone off the show if they continue to talk after she jumps in. When she's on other people's shows and others are allowed to get their full point across, the points made don't hold water and get dissected pretty quickly.
I trust the olympic committee who has medical and science professionals before I trust her. Pearl does bring up studies and statistics alot on her own show, and claims she trusts them over people's opinions, so for her to ignore the science here just to parrot her opinion, did not accomplish anything close to defeating anyone else on the panel who was citing those studies.
I don't know about her show, but from that discussion (VICE), all I saw was deflection, deflection, insults , deflection, deflection, laughing .All done by the feminists. Little whiny beings. The irony, of them wanting equality, while acting like eternal victims (thus weak), is unbelievable. And yes, Pearl despite not being a model and not feminine , is still more attractive than any feminist. Because she feels competent. And that's the real "beauty".
I’m still waiting on the barriers women face. She asked a few good questions and I never saw an answer. Well one answer. Ramps. Smh😅 men with disabilities face that same issue. Let’s stick with men vs women in feminism. If someone can tell me here. I’d be happy to hear.
You are exactly why this debate on Vice went so wrong. At 6:10 : listen to what everybody has to say. At 7:00 : you mock her but DIDN'T listen to her. And I can find other examples, you and the people who were against Pearly and the other dark-hair woman barely listened to what they were actually saying. She never complained that woman don't have enough opportunities, she mentioned the difference in interest in male vs female sports. And therefore explaining tons of other behaviors linked to sports. What you and most people seem to lack of nowadays is a little bit of logic and analytic processing. And please, I am not saying you OR Pearly are wrong/right. But if you don't listen and then re-interprete everything the "opposite" side is saying just to fit your narrative, then I call that dishonesty.
@Jay Nicholson actually Pearl spoke true, but since it doesn't fit to you narrative she's wrong. She was quite consistent in her arguments used sound facts and statistics. But you know whatever feeds your delusion
@@whynot2442 I’m sorry, but there’s simply nothing(and I’ve been looking hard and well) suggesting that trans women have any advantages related to sex after suppressing their testosterone down to an average female range for at least 1-2 years
@@jariahymn3028 you cannot change what the body goes through when puberty occurs into adulthood. no amount of pills or estrogen introduced into the bloodstream will change that. they maintain their muscle size and capacity as well as the center of gravity. you can't change evolution just cause you popped a pill
@jariahymn3028 biology would beg to differ, as testosterone isn't the only advantage it's longer denser bones bigger heart,bigger lungs which greatly impact athletic performance.
Sydney Watson does this really annoying thing in her videos where she just talks for a couple of minutes and then does this really awkward “funny” face which is supposed to be humorous. Once you notice it you can’t even focus on what she’s saying.
@@biancawilloughby9980 whatever brother, what does you nationality and mutilation have to do with your impression of her?" As a poor disabled fatherless person of color on a third world country I'm proud of her, so does my opinion of her have more or less value depending on my victim points? Which ones do you think are more valuable? Why, why not the others? Isn't that a form of bigotry?" Give me a break....
17:19 the ignorance. You decide to ignore and even mock the ones who you disagree simply coz u dont like them, but them complain and get your feelings hurt when someone decides to ignore you/your side. I suggest you to start fully listening to all sides and coming up with points with actual data behind what you say, because I feel like you don’t actually care about listening you just want to ignore and talk over others (which btw is literally proving their point).
This exactly why samantha hardly gets views on her channel anymore. To be honest she would be way to easy for me to fuck with because I pull no punches and I don't have a politically correct bone in my body.
damn, I'm a CIS male, but I'm not an idiot, regardless of whom you are, regardless, I do not care who you are, unless you are putting others down, when I was back in the 80*s, I heard the same arguments against gay people, time to accept other people are people, bigots are still bigots
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Too right, they always have to make someone "the enemy" and turn ordinary people against each other, while they are making big money from spreading misinformation based on assumptions, guesswork, hate, fear and lies, nothing much as changed. I remember how conservatives and their "satanic panic" demonized punk and heavy metal in the 1970's, some people just find it easier to hate what they don't understand, or offends their view of how everything should be, somehow threatens their beliefs so spend billions$$ trying to erase what they don't like, rather than spending that money to do good for society.
@@jeanniemaycrawford4466 Because this is just a circle, a constant, the attacks on trans people now, echo the attack on gay people in the 80s, which echoed attacks on black people before it. When trans people are accapted fully and transphobia is actually dealt with, they will move on to the next topic to attack LGBT and other minority groups with. it is valid, because people see a pattern with bigots.
Did you just ignore the part where a hyena started screaming over her, thus proving her point? Or…? Plus that is shit and you know it is, considering the amount of editing VICE did on the video
@@imbroke1992 They also care more about a trans “women” who was giving out puberty blockers to children without their parents knowing. However, these are the same people who will die on a hill to protect pedos (or now the “politically correct” terms “MAP”) instead of children. It’s a cult mentality really. They all just keep saying what others want them to and have no brains of their own.
I watched her video, and apparantly, she was censored. She said that more than half of the things she said on there was taken out. And for two other women, they were also censored and one of them didn't even make it to the final cut.
I hated that girl who laughed like a maniac witch when Sydney talks, it makes her statements less valid and more close-minded. The disabled one, i tried to be more sympathetic to her yet she is also more close-minded and not having a proper conversation
their are entitled by their assumed "victimhood" - the example is most of the strted arguments like "AS A WOMAN", "AS A WOMAN OF COLOR" like they wanted to assume their victimhood status from start and i still dont know what barriers are in western countries that are not there for men
Yeah she's a psycho. And I can't stand most of the other women who begin their sentences with "as a black woman" 😒 🙄 They're just professional victims! Pearl was the most Sane! Her and Sydney!
Why should she care what they think? Peral is correct in what she says. Those other Feminists and those MEN with WomanFace are out to lunch. Their Hate, Racism, Bigotry and prejudice are why Feminism is losing. They are why Men are turning thier backs to modern women,
Her kind of "feminism" is about labels, hate and intolerance, like those who cherry pick parts of religion that suit them to cause harm and exclusion of other humans.
@@Black-io1uc No. She treated the other women with POLITENESS. Not respect. You can be downright disrespectful while maintaining the sweetest smile on your face. That's Pearl.
Hi Samantha, I have been a viewer for a little bit now. I like your content and jokes a lot of the time, but it’s really dangerous when you draw conclusions form what someone has said because you could (either purposely or not) misconstrue their words to make them sound less appealing and agreeable to your viewers. I find that a lot of times, you take their words and go one step further to make them seem radical and crazy, when that’s not the case sometimes. It just seems like you’re trying to discredit these people for something they didn’t say, just so your viewers will think that their way of thinking in inherently crazy and wrong. Another thing I have found in your videos recently is that you say a claim and then don’t give any sources to back that claim. Even if it is true, not giving these claims that aren’t basic knowledge any sources makes it seem like you are making it up or twisting something else to fit your narrative. It’s fine if the claim has a reliable source and fits your narrative, but just prove it. This isn’t meant to be angry or hurtful, just some suggestions and things I’ve seen in videos recently. I really do enjoy the content you put out mostly!
This is not the channel to watch if you want to see thoughtful, nuanced, well-informed commentary. Samantha has no interest in actually considering views other than her own or ones that appear to be in opposition to her own word view. She also clearly doesn’t do any actual research. It’s actually terrifying to me to think that young people watch videos like this and allow it to inform their analysis of important social issues because the person making the video is just giving knee jerk, cookie cutter takes based on what they hear in their given echo chamber. Look at the way she dismissed Sydney Watson, did she actually watch any of her content and make an educated comment about her? No, she read off some video titles and says that Sydney’s opinion is that transwomen are trash and belong in jail, then she sort of backpedals and says, “she didn’t really say that, guess.” Totally shallow and unfair. Not to mention uninformed. Samantha is also rather mean in the way she talks about people who have views that don’t align with her own, she is quite dismissive and snarky. From what I’ve seen on this channel, if you aren’t 100% on board with the trans rights agenda, you are a hateful, uneducated, dumb transphobe and there is nothing else to say. It’s all or nothing. I would say don’t watch this stuff if you are looking for intelligent discussion. Lower your expectations!
If someone does those things continuously and never bothers to address it or change, then it's someone who you should be very wary about supporting or listening to.
Honestly anybody watching this video needs to watch the whole thing. It's not actually that good because the feminists were TERRIBLE at defending their points and it was kind of tragic. Like they were all over the place and even disagreed with each other, couldn't give solid examples when asked and simply laughed in the face of other talking points that they didn't agree with which is so uncivil. A lot of the video really put forth the toxicity of 4th wave feminism and how it isn't even feminism anymore. They kept trying to focus on their skin color or their disabilities when the conversation was literally a men and women conversation. They don't even know what they're fighting for anymore and as a feminist the video was really disheartening especially when the antifeminists sounded like they viewed women more equal to men than the actual people who are supposed to see the genders as equal
You do realize that vice has two medium conservatives while the leftist women are just normal woman. Asking questions like Pearl does not make you smarter. She's just good at what she's doing because that's what her job is. I also disagree, some of the feminist women had good counters against the two mediums who had nothing to say either. Pearl asked for a barrier that women go through because she knows that question will frazzle someone on the spot and she knows what she's doing against normal women. However, the dominican woman countered by saying abortion is a barrier and she is right. Eli had a lot of research against Pearl and the other Australian woman couldnt say anything other than feel victimized. Anytime there is anything involving a trans debate, it always goes into sports when no one cares about women sports to begin with unless it is related to a transwoman. Transwomen don't think about transitioning because they want to have an advantage in sports.
@@animecookies8784 I'm a progressive and honestly that Eli argument was not a good one to use because trans women having similar advantages and disadvantages in the sports scene is the acception to the rule, not the norm and the argument is to keep out people who are so obviously built with the genetics of their born sex, because they are late transitioners. These trans women are the hot topic in women sports. Just because people have disadvantages amongst their own groups all the time, doesn't mean that MASSIVE disparities because of late transition is not an issue when you throw a heavily advantaged person into the ring with people who can't compare. Eli's logic oversimplifies a big issue. And it took them almost 15 minutes to give an example of a barrier, and that barrier is not seen as a barrier to the person who posed the question. And above all else a lot of the leftist women were condescending about opposing view points, by even laughing over other people's experience, which is not a good look. They also didn't make much good points overall as even the leftist women were very scattered amongst each other whilst the conservative women were very consistent. Also them dragging in personal aspects of their own life whether it be disability, race, pretty or not had nothing to do with feminism and make them look even messier. All around the progressive women in that video took a massive L when it comes to persuasion
Hi Samantha! I love your videos! You helped me accept myself as nonbinary, and I'm getting my hair cut short soon! Love you, girl! edit: I'm honestly so sick of this 1. . if you hate trans people, why are you on a trans woman's video in a nonbinary persons comment saying transphobic things. just go away. 2. the amount of awful things that people are saying to me and to others in the comments is just...wow. Not the people genuinely trying to understand, the people with preconceived bigoted notions that won't change even though they have stupid ideas. 3. I like being nonbinary! I like who I am. If you are so unhappy with me expressing that, why don't you ask yourself why you're so jealous of me. Is your life so bad that you have to bully others to make yourself feel good?
@@alexfilma16 I am female. I am also nonbinary, because my gender is not my sex. Intersex people also exist, so there is more than more in female. I hope that helps!
@@alexfilma16 From google- Sex is usually categorized as female or male but there is variation in the biological attributes that comprise sex and how those attributes are expressed. Gender refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, expressions and identities of girls, women, boys, men, and gender diverse people. From me- So basically while sex is most of the time Binary (Male/female) gender is an everchanging thing there isn’t only men and women there are a ton of Other identities that exist. Non-binary and third genders have existed for centuries in many different cultures. It’s not as simple as some people think. And the modern view of gender is actually relatively new
I actually did a lecture with a section on trans people in sports where I mentioned Michael Phelps. Not only does he produce less lactic acid than his opponents but his lung capacity is unmatched. The average lung capacity is 6L, his opponents' average is 9L. Michael Phelps has a 12L lung capacity, making his 30% larger than his opponents. When people discuss the biological advantages of trans women, they are discussing small percentage differences (usually within the normal range for cis women). If this discussion isn't about transphobia or restrictions on women's sports, they should have a similar opinion on Mr. Phelps' incredible advantages.
Actualy no, what we do in sports is use different aspects of the human body to have a equal oppertunity. As male and female body's are to as such an degree different we split the 2 just like in some sports we split weight classes. The problem is we dont listen to each other. Clearly people are having troubles with trans women being able to "take their spot" and cleary trans women have a problem why they cant enter some sports. But all people want to do is whos problem is bigger
Sports is all about natural advantages - what's your point? Phelps may have physical attributes that make him an elite male athlete but his attributes are still within the natural range for MEN. What a silly and non-sensical argument. I'm 5'4" tall therefore girls that are 6' tall have an unfair advantage in basketball --> men should be allowed to compete in women's basketball. Your logic is just brain busting.
Your argument doesn't prove that transwomen belong in ciswomen's sports. You are basically saying "biological advantages are impossible to get rid off so we should just scrap sports segregation altogether", which is flawed. Your sex is one advantage in sports. For some sports like basketball, your height is another advantage in sports. The solution isn't to just get rid of separation because biological fairness is impossible, but to add even more segregation between categories. Wresting segregates people by sex. Then they realize that weight is another huge biological advantage, so they add more subcategories by dividing the sport by sex first, and then weight. Basketball should have more sub-divisions for height since height is a clear advantage in the sport. If lung capacity is such a huge advantage on swimming, then add a subcategory for it. It's as simple as that. Let's be real a lot of transwomen have biological advantages over ciswomen. Just because a transwomen "reverse-dopes" themselves to be closer to ciswomen doesn't mean it's fair because males can deliberately weaken themselves just to get to the maximum acceptable range of women's sports and dominate our sports. Transwomen shouldn't compete in women's sports, at least until more research and improvements to medicine have been done. Gender transitioning is still a new concept in modern medicine.
@@bitchd7839 finally someone in the comments isn’t slow. We aren’t talking about men having natural advantages over men, we are talking about males competing in female sports. Lol, and I love the example of the weight separation which is one I use when talking to people too. Sports is meant to be as fair as possible.
@@bitchd7839 except that "research and improvements to medicine" where made. Trans women in women sports aren't nothing new, and the legislation around it evolved too. Again, there are conventions to be followed as a rule inside big organized sports, and they have the necessary medical research to base their ruling on the matter. It's not rules to ease the @bitchd7839 anxiety about trans people, it's to make the sport as fair as possible.
The fact that a 5'11" athletic cis woman says she'd lose to the 5'8" trans women with a smaller frame and overall smaller features is just next level cognitive dissonance.
If you don't think there aren't intense strength differences between people born XX and XY, you haven't played sports. My male friends can do things I would never be able to do no matter what.
@@shareathought769 1. They don't test your chromosomes for sports 2. No. Everyone has a unique chemical makeup that gives them certain advantages and disadvantages in strength
@@shareathought769 now that’s just not true bc I watched very skilled women absolutely crush men at their own sports (basketball actually.) the girls CRUSHED them. It’s not always the case
As a Australian I sincerely apologise for the existance of Sydney Watson, she does not speak for us and her attitudes are at odds with the Australian public.
You kind of proving their point, they didn't say anything particularly objectionable here and you say it is fine to ignore their points just because you don't like them, you and your side don't try honest debate.
Well “your side” is offering only opinions and no facts as a “counter argument” to facts, so “my side” may not want a debate, but how do you even debate against facts? “In my opinion 2+2 is not 4” Sorry, but 2+2 IS 4
@@jariahymn3028 saw the clip a while ago, so forgive me if I missed exactly because I basically just skimmed it now to refresh my memory. But the conversation goes something like it, Pearl say transwoman have unfair advantage in sports, she is dismissed despite this being a fact because they don't like her opinions, Sydney come in her defence, and she is also dismissed. They didn't say anything extreme here, but were dismissed in large part because this youtuber doesn't like them as people, rather than by countring their points directly. 2+2 is over simplistic, imagine if the question was 2+2*4, and they said that it is 16, they will be wrong, but you could clearly see the flaw in that argument is that they prioritized the + over the *, you can counter it by explaining the fact that * comes before + here, this would be an argument against them being incorrect. What happened here is more them giving the answer, and rather than saying why they are wrong, you just point at their TH-cam channel and say they hate math before dismissing them. That pretty simplistic example though, because most of the trans and feminism arguments are social and thus rarely have solid facts, whatever all transwomen should go for male prison or not is not math, there isn't correct and incorrect answer, it is a debate of morals and ideology.
@@יובלרוט Pearl is dismissed cuz it’s not a fact and Eli(the one responding) has several studies that backs up that there is no advantage after a while of suppressing testosterone down to average female levels. Testosterone is what related to sex that can give an advantage, but that is only if one has significantly higher levels, which trans women after testosterone suppression don’t have. And then Sydney(I think that was her name) complains that their opinion/s aren’t listened to, recognizing that it’s not a fact, but simply an opinion. My point was that trying to argue against facts using only opinions is pointless
@@kstar1489 oh but anything that doesn't fit your agenda is transphobic. A guy doesn't want to have sex with a transwoman oh he's transphobic. Women don't want to be in spaces where they get naked with fully biological men and be exposed to them oh they're transphobic. A person identifies as straight oh they're transphobic. We disagree with the member of the opposite sex following OUR children into spaces they are vulnerable and watching them, oh we're transphobic. Not sound people considering our own safety and the safety of our children. And before you say trans people dont attack women in women spaces. 2 women have been raped by a trans women in prison. 3 girls have been raped in school bathrooms by a trans girl. So if they don't do it and it wasn't a possibility why is it happening. It's not transphobic to acknowledge facts and events that are going on. Trans women stealing opportunities from natural born women. Mocking natural born women and making a joke of our menstrual cycles, so why are they not natural phobic? Why are gas lighted by trans women when we dont want them in our spaces where we are vulnerable because on a biological and very real logical level are not us. And quite frankly I'm glad there are more states proposing bills to ban them from women only spaces. They have attacked us and our children and then claim we are transphobic. It's pattern recognition. We recognize a threat because they have portrayed that, since day one they have done nothing but attack our spaces, our achievements, what it really means to be a women. A bunch of sissy guys running around portraying what a Men thinks Women act like without having any real comprehension of what it actually is to be a woman
"you don't care about this girl's opinion", so in your opinion you are able to talk over them but, when they talk over you it is not ok? Where are your manners? Forgotten in the trash? Where's respect? It is a debate, opininions are discussed and everybody has the right to discuss in a kind and respectful way. Looking at the video I only have seen those activists talking over each other and disrespecting other people, assuming incorrect things about the other and not actually answering to the questions asked. I saw a bunch ok adults being very childish with no knowledge of how a debate should be conducted. Shame on them
I was curious, so I looked it up, and at 5'11 and a half, Pearl is taller than 83.78% of cis men in the US, and 99.95% of cis women in the US, with average for each group ranging from about 5'8 to 5'10 and 5'3 to 5'5, respectively.
Okay and??? She’s not talking about every person, she’s talking about athletes….If it’s a 6ft non athlete yeah they’ll loose to pearl, but if it’s even a 5’9” athlete he would beat her just bc he is stronger and that’s not and opinion it’s factual science
@@alecjoncas7764 we're not talking about men and women, we're talking about trans women and cis women, and once you account for the difference in average height (which is a highly variable factor in the first place, as there are trans women whom are 5'3 and below and cis women whom are 5'10 and above), any athletic advantage one group has over the other in most sports becomes a lot more difficult to actually quantify. As has been said before, if trans women really had such a massive advantage over cis women, they would be dominating every competition in which they participate, yet the data shows that trans women win some competitions and lose others.
It’s only just begun so there aren’t too many instances of “winning and loosing” that’s why it needs to be prevented, yes sure some loose but MOST win, just like that swimmer , yes they didn’t win every race. But, in every race they did even the one they won it wouldn’t have even been enough to qualify for the mens league. So even if they got 5th place in one race that is taking away a spot of an actual genetic women that could’ve gotten that place. Just bc they don’t win 1st doesn’t mean it isn’t effecting other spots. Again, even the first place time wouldn’t hav been enough to qualify in the same mens leaugue, that really enough evidence right there
Even if they do not win they are still dominating because if they were in a mens league they wouldn’t even be good enough to play at all but since they are in a womens league they can at least play
Lmao what are you talking about? Sydney was trying to make a point and then some hyena started screaming over her. Did you even watch the video before spewing your idiocy and trying to disregard her point? Bruh
In Scotland we have passed the gender recognition act. Where the gender a Transgender person is is legally recognised in 3 months instead of the 24 months it was. We lowered the age a Transgender persons gender can be recognised from 18 to 16. The age of consent in Scotland is 16 you can also marry and vote at 16. Our police have said when they are dealing with a Transgender person they will use the name and gender they identify as when dealing with them. Terfs have been losing there shit over this. Transgender people make the world a more wonderful and fabulous place. Transgender rights are human rights.
No but actually the "it's her opinion" point is so dumb like. ok? and it's *my* opinion that her opinion sucks. She has freedom of speech but not freedom of social consequence, especially not in a conversation like this that is obviously going to be very opinionated from both sides. Just a stupid thing to say in general lmao
At a panel where your SUPPOSED TO LISTEN TO EACH OTHER, it is dumb to be like “well I think your opinion sucks, period” That is so dumb and toxic, if that’s the case then you shouldn’t even be on this panels. These women needed to listen more to each other and fight less
What I meant with my comment wasn't that everyone *shouldn't* listen to each other and should immediately write each other off with "your opinion sucks"- what I was trying to say was that saying "it's my opinion" or something to that effect to justify and/or preface something you're about to say is not a good point in general. For starters, the usage of "it's her opinion" delegitimizes the point of the video to imply that because something is your opinion everyone should shut up and respect your opinion as is. It places the opinion in question above scrutiny by essentially saying "you can't get mad it me, it's just how I feel". That, however, completely ignores the fact that everyone else here is equally entitled to THEIR opinion/response. Again, freedom of speech, not consequence. If someone is allowed to say something, then everyone should be equally allowed to respond/criticize. They are again, just sharing their own opinions. Whether or not they did so tactifully is not my point, it's about the fact that she was trying to stop them from even doing so at all. Idk I hope explained myself ok. I'm not great at wording stuff, I didn't mean it literally in my original comment that everyone just say "well your opinion sucks" as a response. It helps nobody to do that, so I agree with you there.
Pearl justifying the lack of opportunities in women sports on women not being "entertaining" is just so weird..... also her saying that the pay gap doesn't exist when she's in one of the industries with the most balant pay gap.
The thing I find really inane in when there are guys who attack transwomen and saying it is about women's rights. Said guys often turn out to be misogynist. Matt Walsh, Bill Maher, Richard Dawkins, Jerry Coyne, Joe Rogan, Ricky Gervais, Donald Trump, etc. Also, the idea of guys playing gatekeeper over who is a woman or who is allowed in women's spaces is pretty patriarchal.
Being mysogynist doesn't mean you are not for someone having rights. You can be racist as hell and still agree that we all are afforded rights. Famous qoute. I dissaprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it. That basic tenent is extended to race colour creed religion. Do you think during the civil war when northeners fought to the death to protect all man that they had no racism In them? I guarantee they did. The rights of man. All men and women we're more important then any differences they might have had.
Wait so if men say trans women aren't biological women it's patriarchy. If women do they are terfs. So no opinion is valid that isn't yours by default ? 🤔
I appreciate the men sticking up for us in this regard. We are being shamed into being silent about our identity and our lived experiences, us female women who won't believe absurdities.
In Oklahoma they are passing a law that no one can transition unless they are 26. And any doctor that provides gender affirming care of any kind they want to charge with a felony. In other words, they are okay with trans kids commiting suicide. Horrible far right wing state.
I also read that anyone under 26 that has already started medically transitioning will be forcefully medically detransitioned. Other states such as Tennessee and Florida are jumping on this with their own similarly worded bills. It all started with trans kids because that's something that even people uneducated and uninterested in trans issues can usually get behind (even if it's just as faulty as all their other anti-trans bills are) but this has always been the end goal. Once they get the trans kids detransitioned, then they''ll come for the young adults. Once they get the young adults, they'll come for the adults. They won't stop until they can detransition every trans person in the country, regardless of age. They never cared about they kids, they only care about eliminating trans people.
@@Jasminestealth1 Okay... but it *is* available now. So why make it inaccessible? Also, these bills don't just target surgery. They also make puberty blockers, hormones, and more illegal. Heck, Florida is now working on criminalizing *social* transition for kids - meaning they want to make it a crime for a trans kid to use a different name, or dress/look/act in a manner that isn't "masculine" or "feminine" enough based on conservatives' ideas of what's appropriate for the child's gender assigned at birth. If they're doing it to kids now, their ultimate goal is to do it to adult trans people as well (as we're seeing with things like this Oklahoma bill). Tl;dr: It's not just surgery. It's every conceivable way a person could transition. If trans folks / doctors come up with a new, innovative way to get around anti-trans laws, conservatives will make that illegal, too.
Read the bill and no where does it state they are ok with trans kids killing themselves. 50 states, they can find what they desire in a state like California or some other liberal state. Not everyone has to bend to knee to the less than 1%.
the fact that pearl early on said "I'm 6ft" then when eli asked how tall she was "I'm 5,11 and a half" taking off half an inch to seem petite and dainty lmfaoo
@@kstar1489 I’ll tell you what it doesn’t do. It doesn’t reverse the larger stature of a biological male after puberty, or the greater lung capacity, or larger circulatory system.
I was watching this video, and when sports was brought up I got a transphobic and homopobic ad, saying that "men", meaning trans women, shouldn't change in female locker rooms, and children are healthiest living with a mom and dad. I don't know how to feel
@@rhymerlegend2717 it's not. 1. The chances of cis women being attacked by trans women or cis men in women's spaces is extremely low, especially compared to cis men attacking trans women in men's spaces. 2. The idea that children need a mother and father specifically stems from a pointlessly gendered outlook on single parent households and their effect on children. They don't need a mother and father specifically for a healthy upbringing, just at least two parents to balance the family responsibilities
@Rhymerlegend27 1. Citation needed. Allowing trans women in women's spaces does not affect the rate that they are attacked. Anyone who wants to commit the act will just invade the space and violate them anyway. 2. It has been proven time and time again that the gender of the parents does not have much bearing on the child's physical and mental upbringing. A child's image and perception of a healthy family do not get warped because of the gender of their parents. You believe this because of heteronormativity
The thing I hate about the "trans women in sports" conversation is that it's basically designed to make people debate our bodies and their capabilities in gruesome details, putting us in the unenviable position of having to "prove" our bodies are identical (or can be made identical) to cis bodies in the vague and general arena of "athletic performance", and at the end of it, the victory would be for a small subset of trans people. Nonbinary people, trans people with atypical transition paths/outcomes, non-transitioning trans people, trans and cis intersex people, would not be included. All for the a seat at the professional pageantry of "body superiority" that's meshed well into a bunch of other oppressive systems and exists only to reinforce various institutions that subjugate others.
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7:50 I've said this before and I'll say it again: I find it ironic that the people complaining about trans people in sports are the same people complaining about participation trophies get over it, apparently
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There are biologically differences between men and women or male and female, whatever you call it. Ofcourse there’s always genetic advantages I’m not denying that, But trans women retain 30% of their male bone density and muscle mass, this doesn’t immediately mean they are stronger but if a female and a trans women both would train the same way, eat the same things every day, the trans woman is gonna have the upper hand because there are biological differences, I don’t think trans women don’t belong in women sports, but we as a society aren’t that far we can turn a man in a women, leaving no trace of the trans women every being a man, this doesn’t account for every spoort by the way
@@tomvandeklok1376 Nope not even close. The correct answer is it depends. Your figures are way off and not based on science. You the answers change because transgender does not mean monolith. These are individuals and each is different. Your dog whistle dogma does not apply because it assumes. It assumes because it advances an agenda. Science does not advance agenda it collects fact at a moment.
@@jgaffney567 first of all how is your figure not based on science, it’s coded in your DNA. Second of all, I am very aware each Trans individual is different but then men can also compete in women’s sports right? Because there are men who are weaker then women right? Being a men also isn’t a monolith, by what your saying. We are talking about on average
Pearl's idiotic argument about men going to war (parroting misogynistic talking points) doesn't even make sense. The idea is that men were considered disposable because they would be shipped off to die in battle. But having ten-plus babies before modern medicine is incredibly dangerous, making women at LEAST as disposable as men supposedly were. Your wife died in childbirth? Whatever, just get a new one to pop out a bunch more.
She also ignores that women were actively excluded from engaging in war by men, not their own choice. Not to mention that women have been some of the most vocal opponents of the draft. All of her arguments are just the crap you'd expect to read on some MRA subreddit.
Good point, Johanna. Her argument is wrong in every way; there have been two or three drafts instituted since women won the right to vote, and women were not drafted, so that was never even an idea that anyone had back then. And she claims that nobody ever talks about men's bodies, but that's just downright stupid -- millions of words have been written debating and arguing and trying to justify the drafting of men into military service. The subject has been covered from every possible angle, ofc, because men talking about our own problems has been 95% of public discourse for thousands of years.
The NCAA has allowed trans women to play in women's sports since 2010 (after one year of hormone replacement). Since then, not a single trans woman has dominated in any women's sport, including basketball. Not once.
I'm actually here within the first hour for once! Anyways, I'm FTM and I just got a gender-affirming haircut! I'm actually so happy! When my haircut was finished I quoted Pinocchio!
I’m a 6 ft tall trans woman who goes to the gym and competes in sports… and there are 5’0” cis women can out play me and out lift me any of the day of the week… sooooooo
Serena Williams is one of the heaviest female in tennis and she is only 160 pounds , 40 pounds less than average men tennis player, having male in women sports is nuts
What was interesting to me was that Sydney Watson endlessly demanded people listen to her perspective as a cis-gender woman, but was beyond outraged when anyone dared to start a sentence with "as a trans woman" or "as a black woman"
Because Pearl and Sydney wanted to stay on topic, which was feminism. Naturally, if anyone comes across a trans, all they want to talk about is, well, as always, being trans. Sydney became frustrated that the feminists/trans on the panel kept trying to deflect from the points she made because they had no actual rebuttals. Thus their "as a trans woman" desperation Hail Mary's. This ain't all that complicated.
I hate these debate shows because they always try to “both sides” the argument. We have one side that just wants to live our lives and the other side that wants to stop us from doing that. It isn’t a balanced argument. Eli is a legend tho. I’m glad she didn’t take any crap.
Y’all can live your lives but when y’all begin to unfairly compete with biological females who are biologically and physically inferior, that’s when y’all aren’t just “living your lives”. That’s where the divide begins because y’all can’t except that y’all are physically advantaged compared to biological females.
The TV show Supergirl has the very first Trans Female Superhero to be featured on Television. This superhero is called Dreamer. She makes her debut in season 4. The actress that plays this superhero is in real life a Trans Female.
Who was the trans woman researcher who came in with all the facts? I'm kinda crushing on her and her big brain after this video. As a trans/non-binary PhD student specializing in researching anti-trans violence and discrimination, I have, of necessity, also been following the healthcare bans and other anti-trans legislation being put into place because these things are inextricably linked to one another. And anyone who doesn't realize that hasn't been paying attention.
Yeah pearl is 6ft tall and if she played even an athletic man that was 5’9” she would LOOSE!!! You can’t just say that you yourself would loose when you aren’t in competitive sports. It’s not comparing all men and women in sports it’s comparing athletic men and women! A 6ft man that didn’t play sports would loose to pearl, but a 6ft man that did play sports would whoop her bc he is much stronger. So funny how you say they don’t know what they are talking about when really you have no idea what you are talking about
I went from being in all-male meetings to being the only woman in many of them, trans or otherwise. I didn't rob any cis women of that opportunity, and I am extremely aware of my representation for queer, trans, and all women in those situations. Sometimes, I am the ONLY female representation in some places.
"You're literally a white woman from Australia" is a statement in of itself. I watched the debate in full (and sad Vice turned the comment section off) but coin vest has been going off. There's been a lot of really good points like how pretty "white" women have been the forefront for feminism since basically the start and women of color, disabled women, and trans women have been left in the dust. I think the biggest problem is that people will simply look at coin vest and only see her rage and not her points because she made a lot.
But "you're literally a white woman from Australia" wasn't the main point though, the point is trans girls women whatever color have no impact on her life at all, or her cis-het middle class privilege it is all irrational fear and anxiety that has been put in such women's minds by the conservative media.
Well, then they should start their own movement. Feminism is about women, not trans women, black women, disabled women or white women. Pearl even asked what barriers there are for them as WOMEN and NOBODY could give an answer. And "you have white pretty privilege" isnt an answer. And the coin vest woman did not make any valid point. They all just want a free for everything card and do whatever they want without any consequences.
@@Sensei0ne Pearl even admitted there was a barrier in HER OWN OCCUPATION and tried to justify it because "women aren't entertaining like the men." There were even talk about laws being in place to remove the rights from women's bodies. Women are more likely to be sexually assaulted simply by existing, women get less job opportunities than their male counterpart simply on the base of their sex. And Pearl, who is seemingly the standard for cishetero white women, even devalues the idea that she does benefit from a privilege that most of the other women in that video don't benefit from (whiteness, thinness, able bodied, etc). If feminism is just about "bEiNg A WhItE StRaiGhT BiOlOgIcAl WoMan" than it's a complete downplay to the millions of women who simply do not fit that and are still oppressed in American society.
@@Thenpai thats not a barrier... and women are less entertaining in most sports... WNBA makes a profit of like 20million a year and the costs are 60 million a year. When a pro female soccer team lose to 15 year old boys or 60 year old men. When i watch female soccer its like watching soccer in slowmotion. So it's not a barrier based on women vs. men, its just not as entertaining as men's sport in most cases. Less people watch it, less people buy the merch etc. Nobody said feminism is about white able bodied thin women... thats why i included white women in the comment. Its about women without any adjective in front
@@Jane-oz7pp I'm sorry, I wish you too could be the height you want 💜... For me the thing is, most all the women in my family are super tiny, and every since I was a kid I wanted to be super tiny, like around 5'0. I know there's no science to this but I feel if I had not gone through male puberty that I would be really really little too like the rest of the females in my family.... I feel perhaps my brain is "wired" for the body of a really small female, and that's why I feel dysphoria. Being around women who are tiny like 4'11 or 5'0 really triggers my dysphoria, as bad as that sounds
@@Jane-oz7pp Yep society is weird you are either too tall, too short, too fat, too thin, stuff em, I can't tell you the secret to success, but the secret to failure is trying to please everyone.
@Nathan I always thought that 5'4 was "on the short side" for even females but when I go out in public most females just seem SOOOO tiny. I feel like a freaking giant a 5'4 even
That makes me so angry. People thinking the sports thing is unfair because trans women have an adventage and not even looking up the data that shows that they're not dominating the field of the sports. There are cis women that have anatomic adventages aswell and that still doesn't mean that someone doesn't have to put work into it and it doesn't mean they will get all the titles.
Maybe she didn't word it in the greatest way but she has a point with the sports issue. Biologically, males and females are completely different aaannd preferred gender doesn't impact that fact in any way. 30 year olds don't compete against children because the gap in ability is too great. Pearl being tall has nothing to do with anything. The transwoman next to her was smaller and weaker ... and not even an athlete. Put her up against a 6 foot basketball player and it would be a fair comparison. Transwoman absolutely should be able to compete in sports but I think it needs to be done fairly. Males and females have different bodies in many ways, some obvious, physical and hormonal ways and even some not clear to the naked eye. I think the best way to make it fair is to have a separate category for individuals who don't identify with their sex.
They use the best available science and it being science it gets updated. They make it as fair as possible that is why you see only one champion. The great majority do not make headlines. The one is used as a token example of how unfair it is.
I agree, I think it's a shame that vice uses people who have such extreme views (and poor ability to listen) to hold their discussions. Because all it results in is an even wider chasm between the groups. At the end of the day this stuff is complicated, we should be hearing real respectful discussion, with nuanced opinions and people who are willing to listen on BOTH sides.
There are already rules in place to make it fair. Hormones significantly change someone's abilities. There simply aren't enough trans people to have separate sports teams etc.
@Susan Leslie I agree that it looks like the governing bodies have put steps in place to try and make it fair but the truth is that hormones can only change so much. Men are naturally bigger and stronger with better stamina. Taking them off testerone doesn't suddenly shrink them and alter the structure of their bodies. Of course it changes their personal performance, but you can't say it 100% aligns it to the precise place a woman would naturally fall into. You can amend the hormone levels but you can't compensate for the other natural advantages that are already in place.
in high school we had people well over 6ft tall playing basketballl on both the boys & girl's teams. we had a freshman standing at 7'2", some were 6' or under, with the varsity being 6'2"-6'5". the girl's team were mostly 5'10-6'1" save for a couple below that height, with one of them being about 6'4" even then, the people below between 5'10" and 5'6" made up for that by being some of the most agile, quickest, and/or fastest members on either team. sports are litered with unfair advantages. that's half the meta game within athletics, to have as much of an advantage on your opponent, that is also allowed within the set rules of the game. in basketball or softball/baseball, their were girls that were leagues better than the boys and vice versa. speed, strength, endurance, agility, and just the raw skill required when it comes to throwing a ball, batting, shooting a basket, etc. both teams would regularly make it down to state championships, we've had players from both teams go play division 1 college basketball. the advantage is negligible. regardless of that fact, there aren't nearly enough trans women or trans men for that matter, participating in high school, college, or national/semi-pro athletics to warrant such a hostile & fear mongering response. this is also before being aware of or talking about how that going on hrt (for transfeminine people) takes a big hit to your muscle strength, it takes a lot more work to remain physically fit than it ever did before (usually). olympic committees have already discussed this and ran independent studies to gather the info to make those decisions/protections olympics level trans athletes.
When I played basketball in middle school, I was always the tallest thickest one in he game. My team went undefeated simply because I could reach passes that would go over everyone else’s heads. However, when I hit high school, I was on the shorter end. Puberty had hit me different, I didn’t grow much taller, instead gaining more muscle mass and weight. I couldn’t play the same position, and I couldn’t use my height to my advantage the way I did before. I didn’t even make the team. But that’s the name of the game. Everyone is different and you gotta use what you’ve got to your advantage in order to win games. Anyway, I switched sports cuz I wasn’t cuttin it in bball anymore. 🤷🏾
This is ridiculous lol. If there were just as many trans women in womens sport as biological women. There would be no biological women left competing. Lowkey, have you ever wrestled or done anything physically competitive with a female? Wrestling with an adult female feels like tossing around a 9 year old. Barely even have to try. Its an insane argument. 15 year old boy soccer players can defeat the womans professional soccer team. You could take the bench warmers of any college team and pair them against the female WNBA all star team, and the all star team would be smoked.
Having coached and officiated basketball, both boys and girls, for many years I can wholeheartedly attest that the ability level between genders is deep. Abyss deep. So much so, that if you placed the 16-0 undefeated Class A girls team against the 0-16 winless Class D boys team, the boys would win in a rout. Just the way it is and to try to peddle a lie that counters what everyone can easily see with their own eyes will be difficult to sell. Doesn't mean the girls can't enjoy sports and compete against each other, but it just seems trans people are so determined to become a third gender or something of that sort, that they need to screech that any advantage between the genders is "negligible", which is blantantly false.
And IOC determined after "much studies" that traswomen indeed have advantages over women. Even after taking hormones for a long time. Your argument is stupid.
The problem with modern feminism it's nolonger about equalnrights byt soecial treatment for women, which is why a lot of traditional feminists have stepped away from the "feminist" moniker and now go by "egalitarian" Personally it's not so much equality we need but equity because men and women have different needs. Yes there are some things that are universal but there are somethings that men need that women don't, some ghings women need that men don't and some things trans individuals needs that neither men nor women need.
@@ianwazowski5607 I don't care if someone is male, female trans or whatever, people are people and as such should be treated as such. But everyone is different. And have different needs. Modern feminism isn't about equality it's about stepping on men to get to the top not realising that those men are in the same boat as them, it's not Joe average working on a building site to support his family that's the problem, it's people like musk, bezos and trump. The rich and powerful, they keep us fighting among ourselves so we don't notice what they are doing. If you look you'll notice the one's pushing the gender war are the people on top, the millionairs. The ones who could if they wished fix things but choose not to. Even the whole suffragette movement wasn't for women's rights, it was for class rights. They were fighting for the right for all "educated middle class property owning individuals" to have the right to vote. And were actually opposed to lower classes getting the vote and their victory in getting the vote was due in large part to a much wider struggle including a lot of disgruntled soldiers returning from WW1 disgruntled factory workers (many of whom were women) and miners and the russian revolution (western powers seeing what was happening in Russia and hearing similar stirrings through western Europe and America made the choice to extend voting powers to appease the masses) Modern feminism has gone against this class struggle and turned it into a gender war, instead of joining forces against those that are actually oppressing all of us we fight each other Bob working the till at your local supermarket is the one underpaying you, it's the CEO who passed rules against discussing pay Bob isn't the one making you pay 20% more for a pink razor, that's the marketing department at Gillette Yeah some men are shity, but so are some women. My issue with feminism is that it paints all men as the enemy and all women as the victims and even glorifying women on men abuse. Heck I've even seen them ridicule men who were the victims of domestic abuse, demand to see their partners phones or accuse them of cheating just for going to work and glorifying stalking their partners but if a guy asks to see a woman's phone all hell breaks lose. This is why I'm pro egalitarianism. Because we need to stop fighting each other, join forces and fight those who are actually the cause of most of our problems
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@@iriswicker5622 to quote Ken Hamm(also Australian) when he debated Bill Nye,(loose quote), "People don't necessarily like what I have to say, but being Australian they like how I say it, so I'm gonna say it" I'm also Australian. Turkish-Australian.
Opinion**, I don’t watch these videos usually but I’d listen to her Over the other ppl bc she backs up what she says with evidence and facts…the other ppl only use opinions and emotions. They all use the same hype words/lines/reasons everytime even though they have been proven false countless times
Im lost, is Pearl supposed to be a feminist? (Well, terf technically) Cause she doesn't even sound like she thinks cis women should have rights. Like, youcannot convice me that shes a feminist.
Ever notice how a lot of self-proclaimed pro-life people can't seem to give a fuck about children once they're born? It's basically that. It's not really about protecting children, and in the case of terfery it's not really about protecting women and children. Pearl is certainly on the more overtly tradcon side of the spectrum, but terfs generally speaking don't tend to lean progressive, and a limited idea of what a woman should and is allowed to be is the norm rather than an exception to the rule. The feminist think-about-the-children angle is a justification for hateful narrative.
Exeptions are not what usually happens, we don't make general rules based on a few exceptions. Most women don't have the bone density that man have, Nature made it that way and it' s fine, there' s no need to fight reality.
Vice turned off their comment section because they mostly supported Sydney and the other gal and Sydney's video on this has 1.3 million views vs a little over 30 some thousand for this video so who are people listening to?
Nah, they lost. Pearl’s argument is that every trans woman would destroy her in sports, because of physical advantages. Eli then clearly showed this to not be true, by o pointing out how Pearl is massive, when compared to Eli. Sydney then accidentally confirmed Eli’s argument by saying Eli could never compete at Pearl’s sports level. That was Eli’s point. She can’t compete at Pearl’s level. Being a trans woman doesn’t automatically make you a goddess of athletics. That’s not how it works.
@@trumpanzeehunter9505 As Pearl always points out, those with little argument go for the exception and not the norm, as you just did with your Pearl/Eli comparison. A surefire sign of the desperate. You inadvertently backed up Pearl's point. Thanks for the assist. That's how it works.
I think what Sydney was meaning with her comment about not playing at Pearls level is that Eli and Pearl are not comparable. Pearl is semi-pro. If a semi-pro male basketballer transitioned then he would crush her, which I think is the misconception. Sydney and Pearl are arguing about Lea Thomas and the weightlifting women, professional athletes who have transitioned. Eli is arguing for pre hormonal trans to be allowed. They are both right in a sense.
Yes. And yes! 1. Yes trans women should be included in feminist conversation. Everyone should be! I'm so sick of people confusing feminism for hating men. Feminism is just wanting equal rights for women including trans women! Men can be feminists too. I refuse to date a man or woman who does not identify as a feminist because that tells me they don't even know the meaning of the term. 2. Yes trans women should be allowed in sports because after being on hormones for as long as they are stating is necessary for participating I have to assume that means their bodies are similar enough or hormones are similar enough to put trans women and cis women on equal playing fields in the realm of sports. End of story.
Modern day feminism IS all about hating men and trying gain advantages over them. Its long ago stopped being about equality. because thats been achieved. Now its about whose the biggest victim.
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That is somewhat wrong for the usa per world population review average male height 5 feet 9 inches for women 5 feet 4 inches. So in the usa women average 5 feet 4 iches.
Secondly yes it is rare for females to grow above 5 feet 7 . But female (yes biological females) athletes mostly swimmers are very tall over 6 feet like Katie Ledecky.
why are you trying to change the context of what she is saying ?.....5 11 is normal in wnba. Why you compare it to avg women when she was a wnba player they re talking about sports you completely lost the context
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or they just have no response cuz nothing they say holds up with even the smallest push back? when people are right they know they are right and they hammer with the facts supporting them, if their wrong they usually resort to name calling and evading the question. which i saw alot of the "feminist" woman doing in this entire clip.
@@poknberry5795 like when? When they asked about why sleeping around without taking accountability for consequences was empowering and didn't get an answer, or when at the question "what barriers do you face" the best they came up with was "there are Ramps" (as disabled men obv does not face them too)? Because they didn't seemed stupid questions.
Ew I actually feel sorry for you because no women deserves to see any ads from him especially when he does not know the definition of a women is a person
@@ruthperez7985 Wow! Your all so lost... Please define a woman. Ill wait... A woman is a person duhhh! But what kind of person? How are they different from men? Maybe your getting an ad from Matt Walsh because algorithm or maybe God knows you should maybe try and look at things differently and see something your entire side refuses to watch or actually listen to the important talking points.
Pearl didn’t say anything about not caring about their opinions ? Are you that biased that you can’t see that all the other women refused to listen to anything they said and couldn’t come up with a single factual response or example when asked a question. It’s the complete opposite of what you said
This is beyond ridiculous. You want us to cater to the 1% so they feel "included" at the expensive 99% of biological women who are loosing spots on teams, loosing scholarships, loosing podium finishes, loosing records. This is literally just trans women being straight up NARCISSISTS. No amount of hormones will completely remove the biological advantages such as bone density, lung capacity, blood cell count, muscle mass, hand size, foot size, height etc. This is a FACT. It is just straight up cheating. Common sense.
@@vannavee3 They 100% are and its only going to get worse if things don't change. Lia Thomas is the most well known. Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood got 1 and 2 at a high school track event in CT. Wren Pyle, Laurel Hubbard, Natalie Ryan. Do you want me to keep going? Look at it from a biological women perspective. Imagine training your whole life just to get beat by a biological man. Imagine not making a team because there are 2 trans women that got your spot. Imagine not getting a scholarship because the trans women got your spot. It is SO unfair to them, this is literally just common sense. Again why are trans women's feelings more important than the 99% of biological women competing in sports? This isn't transphobia this is just a basic truth that it is unfair for biological men to compete against biological women. It's as simple as that. Many trans women agree.
@@jjchockey Lia has worse times, only won a handful of matches, and never beat a woman's record while competing with women. Would you mind pulling up her actual record instead of believing what everyone else tells you to
@@TransIsBest "only won a handful of matches" there is the proof you are asking for, you said it yourself. It doesn't matter if she smashed world records or not. She stole a spot on that team and a podium finish from the biological women. Again it's literally just common sense that it's unfair. I should not need to prove this. But since you are asking... With a time of 4:37.32. Lia is the fastest ever recorded at Harvard University’s Blodgett Pool. Tiffany Newell Newell won the women’s 45-49 Canadian indoor 5,000-meter race, setting a national record along the way Jenna Lingwood won the 40-44 Masters championship at the 2022 USA Cyclocross Nationals in Connecticut. Mountain biker Kate Weatherly has won two national titles. How much more proof do you need?
Interesting that you think Everyone has different biological advantages is somehow a good argument. You do realize that rational just means sports should just flat out not be sex segregated at all right? Is that what you want? Because then the only representation would be cis men trans men trans woman and cis woman just wouldn't have a seat at the table
Vice sucks for having this panel. Their panelists are people who have financial dependence on these empty bad faith talking points. At least they had people there to shut down this rhetoric
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I am surprised that anyone goes to these discussions anymore without printing a stack of 10-20 research papers. I’d be in there passing out my bibliography like “no it’s cool I have receipts, here are my cited sources so you can’t lie your way back to being a supremacist.”
Bro they’d be reading a book by the time I was done
For the majority of 2019, I used to work for an intersex rights organisation. My main job was to write social media posts. My very first article was about the Caster Semenya case. She is not trans, she has a naturally elevated testosterone level. She has repeatedly been forced to either lower her testosterone levels with medication, or not compete. They are forcing her to either underperform, or not perform at all. Forcing someone to undergo a "normalising" treatment goes against human rights.
I am glad that Eli brought up how every professional athlete has some sort of advantage over others. This is a fact that is often ignored or even denied. I think a possible solution might be to let go of gender or sex based sports entirely, and instead have professionals come up with a system to assess every professional athlete, in order to put them into more-or-less leveled competition classes. Those classes can be based on a variety of things: leg length, arm length, overall body height, testosterone levels, testosterone receptiveness, muscle/fat ratio, weight, etcetera.
And that way it can be specialized for each sport too, because some traits can have a really large effect on performance in certain sports and be relatively inconsequential for others. Doing this could actually really expand the groups of people who are able to compete at high levels in their sport anyway, which I’d actually love to see. I mean, wouldn’t it be cool to see a basketball team of short people?
If you’re talking about biological differences, I feel like being as specific as possible (rather than separating based on what is a pretty vague and arbitrary line) is the way to go with sports.
In MMA where they literally have to be in the same weight class to compete, Fallon Fox, the first-ever transgender fighter, suffered the first loss of her professional MMA career back in 2013. Fallon Fox was TKO'd in the third round of a featherweight title fight by the current UFC fighter Ashlee Evans-Smith. She suffered a number of other defeats over the years. She never took a title. So, a transwoman has LITERALLY had her ass kicked by regular women in a physical confrontation she TRAINED for.
@@Random51960 She has internal testicles, that's why she's an intersex women
I know someone who competes at the state level and she has had to go on hormones and have a letter from her Dr so that she can compete because her testosterone level is naturally too high. She also has endo and so this means that she can't go on birth control because of the hormones that she is already on which is usually the treatment method for the endo (can't just use birth control because they don't have the testosterone blockers in them).
@@Random51960 Yes, she is intersex, as was implied by the OP.
my sister (cis) is a volleyball player at a very high level, but she has always struggled to find spots on teams because she is only 5'9". I say "only" because most recruiters won't even look at a player that's not at least 5'10", and if you are under 6' then you need to be absolutely exceptional, and only then for very select positions. My sister had numerous colleges tell her that if she were 3" taller, they'd offer her a full ride scholarship with no hesitation. Those same schools often went on to recruit players that were 6'+ but that my sister had routinely beaten and clearly out-skilled. Biological advantage exists within cis women athletes as well. To exclude all trans women because of (often misconceived) biological advantage is ridiculous because the highest level cis athletes also hold "unfair" biological advantages. I once asked my sister how she felt about the potential of playing against a trans woman at volleyball (I myself am trans so she's a lot more knowledgeable about the data and science behind trans inclusion in sports than most cis people) and she asked "would she be the same height as me?" and I said "for arguments sake lets give her three inches on you" and she said "I'd crush her." So... there you go.
Yes this exactly, I'm also 5'9 I was crushed when I stopped growing and could no longer play the position I'd trained for years to play in higher levels. It had little to do with skill and everything to do with height
Im sure if Brock Lesnar said he was a woman and was fighting in the UFC division all hell would break loose. Why? Because he will go undefeated until he retired.
@@vtomb8618 how is that relevant to *this* comment?
@@mariagiusit Easily, as this person is trying to compare the difference between cis women as if it's the same with trans women. Spent 6 years in the army and not once did a women beat me in combatives. Yet I am to believe a trans women is equal to a cis women when it comes to sports. Not going to happen as my experience says otherwise.
@@vtomb8618 sports are usually divided in skills and strength, nobody wants a trans woman to wrestle or box cis woman. sports like swimming, skateboarding, badminton and cycling are different so many woman have previously defeated cis males.
Petition for vice to release the whole 5 and a half hours of footage. We aren't able to watch the video in the right context without all the exchanges leading to what has been released. Heart you Samantha!
@Ville what shit chat
Lol...even when Vice worked to further your own agenda, you people are still pissed.
@Ville ?
They can't.
Yelda Ali and Eli fucked up, turning Pear and Sydney point make sense. It's also the reason why Sydney talked about others cutting Pear off during transwoman in woman sport moment.
@@aplaowattanakul7760 Wait for real?
I'm frightened by the complete lack of recognition on their faces when they're confronted with actual facts.
They don't care, it's about hate, maintaining a victim complex and feeling put upon, they would rather ignore what doesn't meet their approval and world view. Even if you showed them a 4 ft tall size 6 petite trans girl they would still claim a 6 ft tall size 16 stocky female is at a disadvantage to her.
Serena Williams is one of the heaviest female in tennis and she is only 160 pounds , 40 pounds less than average men tennis player, having male in women sports is nuts
@@sophiepooks2174 Well biological males do have an advantage though. My brother is 13, I'm 20. I'm taller, he's very skinny so I'm probably about 20 pouns heavier than him and he's as strong if not stronger than me since he started puberty.
@@Black-io1uc we're talking about athletes, not normal people hahahaha
@@Black-io1uc You do realize thats literally the testosterone right? If your brother started blocking his testo, he would not grow stronger than average woman. If he goes through male puberty, he will grow strong, but if he later started HRT, he would revert back to pretty much average female lvl.
Human bodies are complicated, I think they believe that some advantages stay after HRT, but some problems also arise. For example, trans woman might keep bigger and heavier body, but as the muscle strength goes down, do you think its a good thing? Same muscle strength with average woman, but bigger and heavier body? Might slow you down.
There is clear evidence that transwomen's performance drops significantly after HRT, so you can't compare biological male to a trans woman on HRT. Everyone knows males are biologically advantaged, the only question is, if HRT makes it fair or still leaves too much advantage.
At the moment, it seems fair enough to me. I haven't heard a single case where a transwoman was clearly overpowered in sports, the right wingers make noise about some cases every now and then, and all cases I looked into, the transwomen sometimes win, sometimes loose against cis women. I'm not too confident in my sports knowledge, but I tried going through these transwomen's times/performances, and compared them to other women competing in the same sports, and they really don't do that much better. Normally the fuss starts when they win 1 race or something, and then you look into their history, and that 1 time is literally the only time they won against cis women.
Hello Samantha, I am a german mom ( 52 years old) so at first sorry for my miserable englisch.
I like your channel very much and I wish you a happy new year.
I am really shocked about young people and there behavior. Today my son( trans ) and his non binary friend are happy but it took a long time and it makes me angry and sad to hear the stupid arguments against there love and existens. On this way I wish all people the luck everyone deserve.
🌠slay🌠
Literally the best mom you sound so cool
We love an ally mom!
Rock on 😁
Already Mom of the year, and the year just started~ ✨
Pearl - "What barriers are holding back women today?"
"Um, I'm disabled"
"Um, I'm black"
"Um, I'm trans"
"Um, the gender pay gap"
Sweet mother of God, give me strength.
Yeah and then the dominican woman said that abortion is a barrier. So don't forget about that. You also need to realize that Pearl is a medium so she knows what she's doing against normal women. She tried to frazzled them with that question until the lady told her that not having pro choice is a barrier holding women back. And she is right. She just couldnt think on the spot when asked because Pearl again is a medium who is good at asking specific questions against normal women.
So, Pearl appeals to the prejudices that you hold against different groups, and you eat it all up? Is that what’s going on here? Seems like it.
@@animecookies8784 Ah, the infamous abortion issue, a personal feminist favorite. Yet, abortion is not drawn down male/female lines, which Pearl continues to push in regards to barriers, but rather religious/political lines.
Many women oppose abortion, many men favor abortion. A little Government 101 lesson is necessary here, Our politicians, from the president, senators, house reps, hell, even our city councils, are ELECTED officials. Now with 53 percent of voters being woman, passing laws favoring abortion would be a slam-dunk if all women marched in lock-step with feminism.
Yet, they do not, thus abortion is not a female right, per se, but rather a feminist PERCEIVED right. Big difference.
You see, you have made the most common mistake made by feminists today. That you represent women, you do not, you represent yourselves. A small, yet quite vocal, vile and viscous subset of society that few take seriously today.
Seventy percent of women today refuse to identify as a feminist. Young women in particular. Women are abandoning your cult in droves.
Why is this? Have women had a sudden desire for inequality. Of course not, you silly goose, you. It is because feminism has lost its way, devolving into little more than man-hate and eternal oppression/victimhood of spoiled Western women, the most privileged and entitled subset in the history of the world, yet whom still whine incessantly about a society that caters to their every demand.
Kinda like you and those feminists on this panel are doing right now. Who'd a thunk?
@@trumpanzeehunter9505 The modus operandi of feminism - simply screech "RACIST" or "SEXIST" or "HOMOPHOBIA" the second someone says anything counter to your dogma. Is that what's going on here? Seems like it.
You are boringly predictable. Yawn.
@@trumpanzeehunter9505 What are you even talking about? You don’t have to like Pearl not even a little to know she asked a relevant question and they had an extremely hard time answering it, even though that question should be very easy for them to answer since they’re claiming that they’re oppressed in developed countries simply because they are women. They brought up race, disability etc, as if there were no disabled men of color.
I think trans men should be included in this discussion. A lot of people forget about trans men's existence entirely.
Yup, transandrophobia, I don't feel very welcomed in the trans community because when we speak about our unique experiences we're told to shut up because we have "male privilege" and advocating for trans men's rights makes you a men's rights activist, like I literally get cis guys approaching me and creeping on me and I have no authority over my own uterus, but I'm a man so that totally means I have male privilege...got it
I know right most people would talk more on trans women because they like to pick on them a lot and mock them cuz for those terfs it's funny to them to always attack trans women for just existing so it's a double standard right there of sexism.
Unlike trans women they don’t involve or shouts like trans women lol.
I agree the reason why it’s always trans women it’s bc like the other comment said is to mock them n stuff but I’d like to see a video where it’s trans men instead of
imagine noticing the red flag of using the term “biological man”, but missing the red flag of ignoring the “cis-woman’s revolution” by not allowing their spaces to exist
Cis woman are rare in feminism, only boss bae exist.
White cis women are even more rare now, only boss bae exist.
White Cis Male are non, only simp…
Trans woman are trending cuz they are more advertis-able.
Let’s Biological Men compete in Female Sport!
They love men beat their records far miles away.
Why we so intrigued about this?
They internally want it so bad, don’t stop it 🎉😂❤
Tran woman are woman ❤️, world population are enough with human already.
Come on elites need to make money over here 🎉❤$
Are the straight women ok? 😂
@@ruverbryh9998 No
Yes the first red flag is Sam not realizing he is a biological male .
It’s not ciswoman. It’s a made up term to push this agenda. They are woman. It’s offensive to call people cismale or cisfemale. When a trans woman goes to the dr he gets treated for male diseases and issues not female. If trans people were the gender they are choosing then the term trans wouldn’t be needed. People have lost their minds and ignore science
Pearl is such a pick me girl! The issues of Trans women in sports having advantages or taking away women's opportunity has been debunked over and over! As a Cis-Het feminist I wish the debate ended at 'Trans Women are Women'. These women with internalized misogyny think their personal experiences are facts, they refuse to listen to other side and other lived experiences.
I saw a movie last year called Pearl, where the woman in it named Pearl was a serial murderer. And I'd still rather hang out with her than the Pearl in this video.
@@ericblough491 I'm sure your favorite child raping white nationalist Christian at The Daily Wire told you that, but if you use Google for anything other than pictures of trans people to draw devil horns on in MS Paint you'll find that you are quite incorrect.
Peral is Correct in everything she says. You and those who call her a "Pick Me" are jealous. You know she is correct and can't argue against her. Just like the screeching harpies of feminists did in the panel.
Transwomen HAVE stolen Real Women's sports oportunities. Your Claim of debunking is a out right activist lie.
YOU are Triggered. YOU are the one who can't argue against the logic and reason of women like Pearl.
@@ericblough491 All the Left can do is Lie. The Truth shatters their reality.
First off, what a childish non-researched response. You have no idea who I am or what I am. Your ignorance comes across loud and clear. I base statements on data and fact. You on the other hand obviously base it on emotion and nothing else.@@arklestudios
When pearl said the thing about a transwoman of the same height, she meant an athletic transwoman, not someone who doesn't even like sports and not someone who says they would cancel sports
thats so obvious, but for the narratives sake they just skip over that detail.
I agree, and I'd also like to add that, although I'm aware that athletes must meet certain requirements in order to be eligible to compete, I also think that there are some biological benefits and drawbacks for transgender athletes. For instance, it wouldn't be fair if a male boxing champion decided to transition and enter the women's division after identifying as a woman. A transman competing against biological men is another example. Do you believe that individual should be treated fairly?
Because sports are skill-based, it is unlikely that men and women have similar skills.
I can only conceive of one solution: they can still compete, but only in terms of biological sex. I could only come up with two options: either way, they can compete, just in the division of biological sex. They compete biologically, yet they are still acknowledged as they identify themselves. They can even hold their own sporting events that are reserved exclusively for them if they still don't believe that they are accorded equal rights.
@@TaeeePoop There's no way in hell a trans woman boxer on HRT could beat her old professional male competition. Estrogen and lack of testosterone kills performance like you wouldn't believe. Separate events would be pointless because there's so few trans athletes in the first place. Not enough to make for a compelling to watch game. At the end of the day sports still rely on ticket sales and sponsors.
Pearl is used to having these sessions where she can't be silenced because its her show, and even when she is the interrupter she will threaten to kick someone off the show if they continue to talk after she jumps in. When she's on other people's shows and others are allowed to get their full point across, the points made don't hold water and get dissected pretty quickly.
Lol...pearl, even though she's not very smart, was able to soundly defeat all her opponents on that panel.
I trust the olympic committee who has medical and science professionals before I trust her. Pearl does bring up studies and statistics alot on her own show, and claims she trusts them over people's opinions, so for her to ignore the science here just to parrot her opinion, did not accomplish anything close to defeating anyone else on the panel who was citing those studies.
@@Elemenopi23 Lol...sure buddy.
I don't know about her show, but from that discussion (VICE), all I saw was deflection, deflection, insults , deflection, deflection, laughing .All done by the feminists. Little whiny beings. The irony, of them wanting equality, while acting like eternal victims (thus weak), is unbelievable.
And yes, Pearl despite not being a model and not feminine , is still more attractive than any feminist. Because she feels competent. And that's the real "beauty".
I’m still waiting on the barriers women face. She asked a few good questions and I never saw an answer. Well one answer. Ramps. Smh😅 men with disabilities face that same issue. Let’s stick with men vs women in feminism. If someone can tell me here. I’d be happy to hear.
You are exactly why this debate on Vice went so wrong.
At 6:10 : listen to what everybody has to say.
At 7:00 : you mock her but DIDN'T listen to her.
And I can find other examples, you and the people who were against Pearly and the other dark-hair woman barely listened to what they were actually saying.
She never complained that woman don't have enough opportunities, she mentioned the difference in interest in male vs female sports. And therefore explaining tons of other behaviors linked to sports.
What you and most people seem to lack of nowadays is a little bit of logic and analytic processing. And please, I am not saying you OR Pearly are wrong/right. But if you don't listen and then re-interprete everything the "opposite" side is saying just to fit your narrative, then I call that dishonesty.
a samantha and pearl debate would be great.
@Jay Nicholson actually Pearl spoke true, but since it doesn't fit to you narrative she's wrong. She was quite consistent in her arguments used sound facts and statistics. But you know whatever feeds your delusion
@@whynot2442 I’m sorry, but there’s simply nothing(and I’ve been looking hard and well) suggesting that trans women have any advantages related to sex after suppressing their testosterone down to an average female range for at least 1-2 years
@@jariahymn3028 you cannot change what the body goes through when puberty occurs into adulthood. no amount of pills or estrogen introduced into the bloodstream will change that. they maintain their muscle size and capacity as well as the center of gravity. you can't change evolution just cause you popped a pill
@jariahymn3028 biology would beg to differ, as testosterone isn't the only advantage it's longer denser bones bigger heart,bigger lungs which greatly impact athletic performance.
Sydney Watson does this really annoying thing in her videos where she just talks for a couple of minutes and then does this really awkward “funny” face which is supposed to be humorous. Once you notice it you can’t even focus on what she’s saying.
Oh yeah I remember those. Pretty funny actually.
As an Australian trans woman I'm so embarrassed by her. Ugh!🤦♀️
@@biancawilloughby9980 whatever brother, what does you nationality and mutilation have to do with your impression of her?" As a poor disabled fatherless person of color on a third world country I'm proud of her, so does my opinion of her have more or less value depending on my victim points? Which ones do you think are more valuable? Why, why not the others? Isn't that a form of bigotry?" Give me a break....
@@Carlos-sy8hz god damn, so triggered you had to type a whole essay
@@Carlos-sy8hz Jesus Christ
17:19 the ignorance. You decide to ignore and even mock the ones who you disagree simply coz u dont like them, but them complain and get your feelings hurt when someone decides to ignore you/your side. I suggest you to start fully listening to all sides and coming up with points with actual data behind what you say, because I feel like you don’t actually care about listening you just want to ignore and talk over others (which btw is literally proving their point).
This exactly why samantha hardly gets views on her channel anymore. To be honest she would be way to easy for me to fuck with because I pull no punches and I don't have a politically correct bone in my body.
When all sides mean that you don’t exist on the other side then do we really have to listen to them? It’s the false equivalency fallacy to the tee
damn, I'm a CIS male,
but I'm not an idiot,
regardless of whom you are, regardless, I do not care who you are, unless you are putting others down,
when I was back in the 80*s, I heard the same arguments against gay people, time to accept other people are people, bigots are still bigots
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Too right, they always have to make someone "the enemy" and turn ordinary people against each other, while they are making big money from spreading misinformation based on assumptions, guesswork, hate, fear and lies, nothing much as changed.
I remember how conservatives and their "satanic panic" demonized punk and heavy metal in the 1970's, some people just find it easier to hate what they don't understand, or offends their view of how everything should be, somehow threatens their beliefs so spend billions$$ trying to erase what they don't like, rather than spending that money to do good for society.
cis? no, you are what you were born as
And what does that have to do with this?
@@jeanniemaycrawford4466 Because this is just a circle, a constant, the attacks on trans people now, echo the attack on gay people in the 80s, which echoed attacks on black people before it. When trans people are accapted fully and transphobia is actually dealt with, they will move on to the next topic to attack LGBT and other minority groups with. it is valid, because people see a pattern with bigots.
16:21 “my opinion is being spoken over” she claims while on a major platform, interrupting a trans woman to share her opinion with no censorship
haven't noticed that here the only people spoken over were sydney and pearl?
Did you just ignore the part where a hyena started screaming over her, thus proving her point? Or…?
Plus that is shit and you know it is, considering the amount of editing VICE did on the video
@@imbroke1992 They also care more about a trans “women” who was giving out puberty blockers to children without their parents knowing. However, these are the same people who will die on a hill to protect pedos (or now the “politically correct” terms “MAP”) instead of children. It’s a cult mentality really. They all just keep saying what others want them to and have no brains of their own.
I think you should watch Sydney's video on this. She explains her time and what really happened on that panel.
I watched her video, and apparantly, she was censored. She said that more than half of the things she said on there was taken out. And for two other women, they were also censored and one of them didn't even make it to the final cut.
I hated that girl who laughed like a maniac witch when Sydney talks, it makes her statements less valid and more close-minded. The disabled one, i tried to be more sympathetic to her yet she is also more close-minded and not having a proper conversation
no coz you're right. Regardless of what side you're on, this woman is still annoying asf.
their are entitled by their assumed "victimhood" - the example is most of the strted arguments like "AS A WOMAN", "AS A WOMAN OF COLOR" like they wanted to assume their victimhood status from start
and i still dont know what barriers are in western countries that are not there for men
Yeah she's a psycho. And I can't stand most of the other women who begin their sentences with "as a black woman" 😒 🙄
They're just professional victims!
Pearl was the most Sane!
Her and Sydney!
@@zawarudo1041 You not knowing something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Sorry.
The shut down when she asked about her height and when she came with statistics was amazing.
The shut down when pearl asked for a barrier and they couldn’t name even 1
Pearl doesn't care what other women think or feel, so she shouldn't be surprised if she gets that same energy back.
Happy New Year!
Why should she care what they think?
Peral is correct in what she says.
Those other Feminists and those MEN with WomanFace are out to lunch. Their Hate, Racism, Bigotry and prejudice are why Feminism is losing. They are why Men are turning thier backs to modern women,
Her kind of "feminism" is about labels, hate and intolerance, like those who cherry pick parts of religion that suit them to cause harm and exclusion of other humans.
She is still respectful. She treated the other women with respect.
@@Black-io1uc No. She treated the other women with POLITENESS. Not respect. You can be downright disrespectful while maintaining the sweetest smile on your face. That's Pearl.
You’re delusional, pearl was the most sane person on vice, but if you didn’t see that then you’re absolutely delusional.
Bro you guys love to silence the actual women that play the sport.
They’d support them getting beat up by men
omg shut up
Hi Samantha, I have been a viewer for a little bit now. I like your content and jokes a lot of the time, but it’s really dangerous when you draw conclusions form what someone has said because you could (either purposely or not) misconstrue their words to make them sound less appealing and agreeable to your viewers. I find that a lot of times, you take their words and go one step further to make them seem radical and crazy, when that’s not the case sometimes. It just seems like you’re trying to discredit these people for something they didn’t say, just so your viewers will think that their way of thinking in inherently crazy and wrong.
Another thing I have found in your videos recently is that you say a claim and then don’t give any sources to back that claim. Even if it is true, not giving these claims that aren’t basic knowledge any sources makes it seem like you are making it up or twisting something else to fit your narrative. It’s fine if the claim has a reliable source and fits your narrative, but just prove it.
This isn’t meant to be angry or hurtful, just some suggestions and things I’ve seen in videos recently. I really do enjoy the content you put out mostly!
This is not the channel to watch if you want to see thoughtful, nuanced, well-informed commentary. Samantha has no interest in actually considering views other than her own or ones that appear to be in opposition to her own word view. She also clearly doesn’t do any actual research. It’s actually terrifying to me to think that young people watch videos like this and allow it to inform their analysis of important social issues because the person making the video is just giving knee jerk, cookie cutter takes based on what they hear in their given echo chamber. Look at the way she dismissed Sydney Watson, did she actually watch any of her content and make an educated comment about her? No, she read off some video titles and says that Sydney’s opinion is that transwomen are trash and belong in jail, then she sort of backpedals and says, “she didn’t really say that, guess.” Totally shallow and unfair. Not to mention uninformed.
Samantha is also rather mean in the way she talks about people who have views that don’t align with her own, she is quite dismissive and snarky. From what I’ve seen on this channel, if you aren’t 100% on board with the trans rights agenda, you are a hateful, uneducated, dumb transphobe and there is nothing else to say. It’s all or nothing.
I would say don’t watch this stuff if you are looking for intelligent discussion. Lower your expectations!
@@jennifred3806 all the cosmetic work, surgeries etc have disguised the lack of intelligence this person has and with these kids it works.
Terfs are crazy
If someone does those things continuously and never bothers to address it or change, then it's someone who you should be very wary about supporting or listening to.
Honestly anybody watching this video needs to watch the whole thing. It's not actually that good because the feminists were TERRIBLE at defending their points and it was kind of tragic. Like they were all over the place and even disagreed with each other, couldn't give solid examples when asked and simply laughed in the face of other talking points that they didn't agree with which is so uncivil. A lot of the video really put forth the toxicity of 4th wave feminism and how it isn't even feminism anymore. They kept trying to focus on their skin color or their disabilities when the conversation was literally a men and women conversation. They don't even know what they're fighting for anymore and as a feminist the video was really disheartening especially when the antifeminists sounded like they viewed women more equal to men than the actual people who are supposed to see the genders as equal
It was also heavily edited and the feminists still came across badly. You could see this in the comment section before Vice turned it off.
You do realize that vice has two medium conservatives while the leftist women are just normal woman. Asking questions like Pearl does not make you smarter. She's just good at what she's doing because that's what her job is. I also disagree, some of the feminist women had good counters against the two mediums who had nothing to say either. Pearl asked for a barrier that women go through because she knows that question will frazzle someone on the spot and she knows what she's doing against normal women. However, the dominican woman countered by saying abortion is a barrier and she is right. Eli had a lot of research against Pearl and the other Australian woman couldnt say anything other than feel victimized. Anytime there is anything involving a trans debate, it always goes into sports when no one cares about women sports to begin with unless it is related to a transwoman. Transwomen don't think about transitioning because they want to have an advantage in sports.
@@animecookies8784 I'm a progressive and honestly that Eli argument was not a good one to use because trans women having similar advantages and disadvantages in the sports scene is the acception to the rule, not the norm and the argument is to keep out people who are so obviously built with the genetics of their born sex, because they are late transitioners. These trans women are the hot topic in women sports. Just because people have disadvantages amongst their own groups all the time, doesn't mean that MASSIVE disparities because of late transition is not an issue when you throw a heavily advantaged person into the ring with people who can't compare. Eli's logic oversimplifies a big issue. And it took them almost 15 minutes to give an example of a barrier, and that barrier is not seen as a barrier to the person who posed the question. And above all else a lot of the leftist women were condescending about opposing view points, by even laughing over other people's experience, which is not a good look. They also didn't make much good points overall as even the leftist women were very scattered amongst each other whilst the conservative women were very consistent. Also them dragging in personal aspects of their own life whether it be disability, race, pretty or not had nothing to do with feminism and make them look even messier. All around the progressive women in that video took a massive L when it comes to persuasion
@@mortalkomment7954 That's the problem of intersectionality it's just one big oppression measuring contest.
almost like they are clowns who can’t defend their positions and have no logical explanation or reasoning behind their beliefs
Hi Samantha! I love your videos! You helped me accept myself as nonbinary, and I'm getting my hair cut short soon! Love you, girl!
edit: I'm honestly so sick of this
1. . if you hate trans people, why are you on a trans woman's video in a nonbinary persons comment saying transphobic things. just go away.
2. the amount of awful things that people are saying to me and to others in the comments is just...wow. Not the people genuinely trying to understand, the people with preconceived bigoted notions that won't change even though they have stupid ideas.
3. I like being nonbinary! I like who I am. If you are so unhappy with me expressing that, why don't you ask yourself why you're so jealous of me. Is your life so bad that you have to bully others to make yourself feel good?
But there is only male and female. How can you be neither? I’m trying to understand.
@@alexfilma16 A lot of people are nonbinary
@@alexfilma16 gender =/= sex
@@alexfilma16 I am female. I am also nonbinary, because my gender is not my sex. Intersex people also exist, so there is more than more in female. I hope that helps!
@@alexfilma16
From google-
Sex is usually categorized as female or male but there is variation in the biological attributes that comprise sex and how those attributes are expressed. Gender refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, expressions and identities of girls, women, boys, men, and gender diverse people.
From me-
So basically while sex is most of the time Binary (Male/female) gender is an everchanging thing there isn’t only men and women there are a ton of Other identities that exist. Non-binary and third genders have existed for centuries in many different cultures. It’s not as simple as some people think. And the modern view of gender is actually relatively new
I actually did a lecture with a section on trans people in sports where I mentioned Michael Phelps. Not only does he produce less lactic acid than his opponents but his lung capacity is unmatched. The average lung capacity is 6L, his opponents' average is 9L. Michael Phelps has a 12L lung capacity, making his 30% larger than his opponents. When people discuss the biological advantages of trans women, they are discussing small percentage differences (usually within the normal range for cis women). If this discussion isn't about transphobia or restrictions on women's sports, they should have a similar opinion on Mr. Phelps' incredible advantages.
Actualy no, what we do in sports is use different aspects of the human body to have a equal oppertunity. As male and female body's are to as such an degree different we split the 2 just like in some sports we split weight classes. The problem is we dont listen to each other. Clearly people are having troubles with trans women being able to "take their spot" and cleary trans women have a problem why they cant enter some sports. But all people want to do is whos problem is bigger
Sports is all about natural advantages - what's your point? Phelps may have physical attributes that make him an elite male athlete but his attributes are still within the natural range for MEN. What a silly and non-sensical argument. I'm 5'4" tall therefore girls that are 6' tall have an unfair advantage in basketball --> men should be allowed to compete in women's basketball. Your logic is just brain busting.
Your argument doesn't prove that transwomen belong in ciswomen's sports. You are basically saying "biological advantages are impossible to get rid off so we should just scrap sports segregation altogether", which is flawed. Your sex is one advantage in sports. For some sports like basketball, your height is another advantage in sports. The solution isn't to just get rid of separation because biological fairness is impossible, but to add even more segregation between categories.
Wresting segregates people by sex. Then they realize that weight is another huge biological advantage, so they add more subcategories by dividing the sport by sex first, and then weight. Basketball should have more sub-divisions for height since height is a clear advantage in the sport. If lung capacity is such a huge advantage on swimming, then add a subcategory for it. It's as simple as that.
Let's be real a lot of transwomen have biological advantages over ciswomen. Just because a transwomen "reverse-dopes" themselves to be closer to ciswomen doesn't mean it's fair because males can deliberately weaken themselves just to get to the maximum acceptable range of women's sports and dominate our sports. Transwomen shouldn't compete in women's sports, at least until more research and improvements to medicine have been done. Gender transitioning is still a new concept in modern medicine.
@@bitchd7839 finally someone in the comments isn’t slow. We aren’t talking about men having natural advantages over men, we are talking about males competing in female sports. Lol, and I love the example of the weight separation which is one I use when talking to people too. Sports is meant to be as fair as possible.
@@bitchd7839 except that "research and improvements to medicine" where made. Trans women in women sports aren't nothing new, and the legislation around it evolved too. Again, there are conventions to be followed as a rule inside big organized sports, and they have the necessary medical research to base their ruling on the matter. It's not rules to ease the @bitchd7839 anxiety about trans people, it's to make the sport as fair as possible.
The fact that a 5'11" athletic cis woman says she'd lose to the 5'8" trans women with a smaller frame and overall smaller features is just next level cognitive dissonance.
The internalised misogyny is so powerful in that one that she gets called the female Andrew Tate 💀
If you don't think there aren't intense strength differences between people born XX and XY, you haven't played sports. My male friends can do things I would never be able to do no matter what.
Even shorter guys have way more natural strength.
@@shareathought769 1. They don't test your chromosomes for sports
2. No. Everyone has a unique chemical makeup that gives them certain advantages and disadvantages in strength
@@shareathought769 now that’s just not true bc I watched very skilled women absolutely crush men at their own sports (basketball actually.) the girls CRUSHED them. It’s not always the case
As a Australian I sincerely apologise for the existance of Sydney Watson, she does not speak for us and her attitudes are at odds with the Australian public.
Sydney Watson and Ken Hamm. Two abominations who came to America to make the lot of us look like wankers.
No one speaks for a country - nor do you have to apologize because someone else has opinion - that's a big problem now is shutting down conversation -
L +ratio
Imagine apologizing because someone has a different opinion than you 😂😂🤡
@@terrencelee9366 her "opinions" are actively harming minorities through the spread of false information. stfu.
You kind of proving their point, they didn't say anything particularly objectionable here and you say it is fine to ignore their points just because you don't like them, you and your side don't try honest debate.
Yea i dont think she knows how debates work
I think this Samantha person is emotional and doesn't think too critically.
Well “your side” is offering only opinions and no facts as a “counter argument” to facts, so “my side” may not want a debate, but how do you even debate against facts?
“In my opinion 2+2 is not 4” Sorry, but 2+2 IS 4
@@jariahymn3028 saw the clip a while ago, so forgive me if I missed exactly because I basically just skimmed it now to refresh my memory.
But the conversation goes something like it, Pearl say transwoman have unfair advantage in sports, she is dismissed despite this being a fact because they don't like her opinions, Sydney come in her defence, and she is also dismissed.
They didn't say anything extreme here, but were dismissed in large part because this youtuber doesn't like them as people, rather than by countring their points directly.
2+2 is over simplistic, imagine if the question was 2+2*4, and they said that it is 16, they will be wrong, but you could clearly see the flaw in that argument is that they prioritized the + over the *, you can counter it by explaining the fact that * comes before + here, this would be an argument against them being incorrect.
What happened here is more them giving the answer, and rather than saying why they are wrong, you just point at their TH-cam channel and say they hate math before dismissing them.
That pretty simplistic example though, because most of the trans and feminism arguments are social and thus rarely have solid facts, whatever all transwomen should go for male prison or not is not math, there isn't correct and incorrect answer, it is a debate of morals and ideology.
@@יובלרוט Pearl is dismissed cuz it’s not a fact and Eli(the one responding) has several studies that backs up that there is no advantage after a while of suppressing testosterone down to average female levels. Testosterone is what related to sex that can give an advantage, but that is only if one has significantly higher levels, which trans women after testosterone suppression don’t have.
And then Sydney(I think that was her name) complains that their opinion/s aren’t listened to, recognizing that it’s not a fact, but simply an opinion.
My point was that trying to argue against facts using only opinions is pointless
Why are you so singly focused on pearl yet your quick to call someone a transphob because they have a difference in opinion,
Good question. Too bad they are all too delusional to realize that people can have different opinions
When that “different opinion” is transphobic, it’s transphobic. These are not mutually exclusive
@@kstar1489 oh but anything that doesn't fit your agenda is transphobic. A guy doesn't want to have sex with a transwoman oh he's transphobic. Women don't want to be in spaces where they get naked with fully biological men and be exposed to them oh they're transphobic. A person identifies as straight oh they're transphobic. We disagree with the member of the opposite sex following OUR children into spaces they are vulnerable and watching them, oh we're transphobic. Not sound people considering our own safety and the safety of our children. And before you say trans people dont attack women in women spaces. 2 women have been raped by a trans women in prison. 3 girls have been raped in school bathrooms by a trans girl. So if they don't do it and it wasn't a possibility why is it happening. It's not transphobic to acknowledge facts and events that are going on. Trans women stealing opportunities from natural born women. Mocking natural born women and making a joke of our menstrual cycles, so why are they not natural phobic? Why are gas lighted by trans women when we dont want them in our spaces where we are vulnerable because on a biological and very real logical level are not us. And quite frankly I'm glad there are more states proposing bills to ban them from women only spaces. They have attacked us and our children and then claim we are transphobic. It's pattern recognition. We recognize a threat because they have portrayed that, since day one they have done nothing but attack our spaces, our achievements, what it really means to be a women. A bunch of sissy guys running around portraying what a Men thinks Women act like without having any real comprehension of what it actually is to be a woman
It’s obvious that this man has a mental issue so there we go
"you don't care about this girl's opinion", so in your opinion you are able to talk over them but, when they talk over you it is not ok? Where are your manners? Forgotten in the trash? Where's respect? It is a debate, opininions are discussed and everybody has the right to discuss in a kind and respectful way. Looking at the video I only have seen those activists talking over each other and disrespecting other people, assuming incorrect things about the other and not actually answering to the questions asked. I saw a bunch ok adults being very childish with no knowledge of how a debate should be conducted. Shame on them
Just like donald Trump and Biden
I was curious, so I looked it up, and at 5'11 and a half, Pearl is taller than 83.78% of cis men in the US, and 99.95% of cis women in the US, with average for each group ranging from about 5'8 to 5'10 and 5'3 to 5'5, respectively.
Okay and??? She’s not talking about every person, she’s talking about athletes….If it’s a 6ft non athlete yeah they’ll loose to pearl, but if it’s even a 5’9” athlete he would beat her just bc he is stronger and that’s not and opinion it’s factual science
@@alecjoncas7764 we're not talking about men and women, we're talking about trans women and cis women, and once you account for the difference in average height (which is a highly variable factor in the first place, as there are trans women whom are 5'3 and below and cis women whom are 5'10 and above), any athletic advantage one group has over the other in most sports becomes a lot more difficult to actually quantify. As has been said before, if trans women really had such a massive advantage over cis women, they would be dominating every competition in which they participate, yet the data shows that trans women win some competitions and lose others.
It doesn’t matter what the average height is of every trans person, only the ones that actively participate in sports…
It’s only just begun so there aren’t too many instances of “winning and loosing” that’s why it needs to be prevented, yes sure some loose but MOST win, just like that swimmer , yes they didn’t win every race. But, in every race they did even the one they won it wouldn’t have even been enough to qualify for the mens league. So even if they got 5th place in one race that is taking away a spot of an actual genetic women that could’ve gotten that place. Just bc they don’t win 1st doesn’t mean it isn’t effecting other spots. Again, even the first place time wouldn’t hav been enough to qualify in the same mens leaugue, that really enough evidence right there
Even if they do not win they are still dominating because if they were in a mens league they wouldn’t even be good enough to play at all but since they are in a womens league they can at least play
"My opinion is being spoken over" I say on one of the largest news networks speaking over a trans woman
Lmao what are you talking about? Sydney was trying to make a point and then some hyena started screaming over her. Did you even watch the video before spewing your idiocy and trying to disregard her point? Bruh
@@imbroke1992 thats untrue. she started talking over someone else who was still finishing her point
More like transwomen mansplaining womanhood is speaking over women
@@billliealim wtf are you even talking about
In Scotland we have passed the gender recognition act. Where the gender a Transgender person is is legally recognised in 3 months instead of the 24 months it was. We lowered the age a Transgender persons gender can be recognised from 18 to 16. The age of consent in Scotland is 16 you can also marry and vote at 16. Our police have said when they are dealing with a Transgender person they will use the name and gender they identify as when dealing with them. Terfs have been losing there shit over this. Transgender people make the world a more wonderful and fabulous place. Transgender rights are human rights.
Based Scotland
Love Scotland, the rest of the UK better follow the example
No but actually the "it's her opinion" point is so dumb like. ok? and it's *my* opinion that her opinion sucks. She has freedom of speech but not freedom of social consequence, especially not in a conversation like this that is obviously going to be very opinionated from both sides. Just a stupid thing to say in general lmao
At a panel where your SUPPOSED TO LISTEN TO EACH OTHER, it is dumb to be like “well I think your opinion sucks, period”
That is so dumb and toxic, if that’s the case then you shouldn’t even be on this panels.
These women needed to listen more to each other and fight less
What I meant with my comment wasn't that everyone *shouldn't* listen to each other and should immediately write each other off with "your opinion sucks"- what I was trying to say was that saying "it's my opinion" or something to that effect to justify and/or preface something you're about to say is not a good point in general.
For starters, the usage of "it's her opinion" delegitimizes the point of the video to imply that because something is your opinion everyone should shut up and respect your opinion as is. It places the opinion in question above scrutiny by essentially saying "you can't get mad it me, it's just how I feel".
That, however, completely ignores the fact that everyone else here is equally entitled to THEIR opinion/response. Again, freedom of speech, not consequence. If someone is allowed to say something, then everyone should be equally allowed to respond/criticize. They are again, just sharing their own opinions. Whether or not they did so tactifully is not my point, it's about the fact that she was trying to stop them from even doing so at all.
Idk I hope explained myself ok. I'm not great at wording stuff, I didn't mean it literally in my original comment that everyone just say "well your opinion sucks" as a response. It helps nobody to do that, so I agree with you there.
Pearl justifying the lack of opportunities in women sports on women not being "entertaining" is just so weird..... also her saying that the pay gap doesn't exist when she's in one of the industries with the most balant pay gap.
I mean yeah pay gap is real... like in every industry
If women were more assertive and asked for raises, there would be less of a pay gap. Nobody is responsible for your career but you.
@@Random51960 Well thats a very convenient excuse but not at all how it works.
@@serene_ladyred8803 how does it work?
@@Random51960 lmao then we'd get fired ;_;
The thing I find really inane in when there are guys who attack transwomen and saying it is about women's rights. Said guys often turn out to be misogynist. Matt Walsh, Bill Maher, Richard Dawkins, Jerry Coyne, Joe Rogan, Ricky Gervais, Donald Trump, etc.
Also, the idea of guys playing gatekeeper over who is a woman or who is allowed in women's spaces is pretty patriarchal.
What has matt walsh or Joe rogan said that is mysoginist.
Being mysogynist doesn't mean you are not for someone having rights. You can be racist as hell and still agree that we all are afforded rights. Famous qoute. I dissaprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it. That basic tenent is extended to race colour creed religion. Do you think during the civil war when northeners fought to the death to protect all man that they had no racism In them? I guarantee they did. The rights of man. All men and women we're more important then any differences they might have had.
Wait so if men say trans women aren't biological women it's patriarchy. If women do they are terfs. So no opinion is valid that isn't yours by default ? 🤔
I appreciate the men sticking up for us in this regard. We are being shamed into being silent about our identity and our lived experiences, us female women who won't believe absurdities.
Transwoman are not women and have no right to womans spaces or conversations, they are their own group.
In Oklahoma they are passing a law that no one can transition unless they are 26. And any doctor that provides gender affirming care of any kind they want to charge with a felony. In other words, they are okay with trans kids commiting suicide. Horrible far right wing state.
They WANT that
I also read that anyone under 26 that has already started medically transitioning will be forcefully medically detransitioned. Other states such as Tennessee and Florida are jumping on this with their own similarly worded bills. It all started with trans kids because that's something that even people uneducated and uninterested in trans issues can usually get behind (even if it's just as faulty as all their other anti-trans bills are) but this has always been the end goal. Once they get the trans kids detransitioned, then they''ll come for the young adults. Once they get the young adults, they'll come for the adults. They won't stop until they can detransition every trans person in the country, regardless of age. They never cared about they kids, they only care about eliminating trans people.
Less the 20 years ago grs was not even possible in usa - how about look to the possibilities ..
@@Jasminestealth1 Okay... but it *is* available now. So why make it inaccessible? Also, these bills don't just target surgery. They also make puberty blockers, hormones, and more illegal. Heck, Florida is now working on criminalizing *social* transition for kids - meaning they want to make it a crime for a trans kid to use a different name, or dress/look/act in a manner that isn't "masculine" or "feminine" enough based on conservatives' ideas of what's appropriate for the child's gender assigned at birth. If they're doing it to kids now, their ultimate goal is to do it to adult trans people as well (as we're seeing with things like this Oklahoma bill).
Tl;dr: It's not just surgery. It's every conceivable way a person could transition. If trans folks / doctors come up with a new, innovative way to get around anti-trans laws, conservatives will make that illegal, too.
Read the bill and no where does it state they are ok with trans kids killing themselves. 50 states, they can find what they desire in a state like California or some other liberal state. Not everyone has to bend to knee to the less than 1%.
the fact that pearl early on said "I'm 6ft" then when eli asked how tall she was "I'm 5,11 and a half" taking off half an inch to seem petite and dainty lmfaoo
💀
youre gonna focus on that when there´s a bunch of valid and solid arguments being made by her? that´s why you people are pathetic.
No one cares. She probably said it to be more specific. Stop spewing BS
The fact that’s what you got out of the whole video scares me. 😂
Damn, you're really grasping at straws here, surefire sign of desperation. Kinda sad really.
I want to see some of these women fight to get a trans man into women’s basketball. You never see that. I wonder why 🤔
Because testosterone improves athletic performance
@@Random51960 zomg you’re a transohobe
@@Random51960 then what do you think estrogen does?
@@kstar1489 I’ll tell you what it doesn’t do. It doesn’t reverse the larger stature of a biological male after puberty, or the greater lung capacity, or larger circulatory system.
trans men aren't women though, do you mean trans men in men's basketball?
I was watching this video, and when sports was brought up I got a transphobic and homopobic ad, saying that "men", meaning trans women, shouldn't change in female locker rooms, and children are healthiest living with a mom and dad. I don't know how to feel
That's messed up
Was it from Alliance Defending Freedom? Because I do get that ad sometimes, and it's bs propaganda like a lot of their content 🙄
@@rhymerlegend2717 it's not.
1. The chances of cis women being attacked by trans women or cis men in women's spaces is extremely low, especially compared to cis men attacking trans women in men's spaces.
2. The idea that children need a mother and father specifically stems from a pointlessly gendered outlook on single parent households and their effect on children. They don't need a mother and father specifically for a healthy upbringing, just at least two parents to balance the family responsibilities
@Rhymerlegend27 1. Citation needed. Allowing trans women in women's spaces does not affect the rate that they are attacked. Anyone who wants to commit the act will just invade the space and violate them anyway.
2. It has been proven time and time again that the gender of the parents does not have much bearing on the child's physical and mental upbringing. A child's image and perception of a healthy family do not get warped because of the gender of their parents. You believe this because of heteronormativity
@@ryankramer8779 I think so, apparently you can block ads from certain companies so I blocked theirs
The thing I hate about the "trans women in sports" conversation is that it's basically designed to make people debate our bodies and their capabilities in gruesome details, putting us in the unenviable position of having to "prove" our bodies are identical (or can be made identical) to cis bodies in the vague and general arena of "athletic performance", and at the end of it, the victory would be for a small subset of trans people. Nonbinary people, trans people with atypical transition paths/outcomes, non-transitioning trans people, trans and cis intersex people, would not be included. All for the a seat at the professional pageantry of "body superiority" that's meshed well into a bunch of other oppressive systems and exists only to reinforce various institutions that subjugate others.
Voting doesn't come with the possibility of being drafted. Women don't have to register for selective service, men do, but we can still vote.
"Should trans women be involved in women debates?"
*there is a trans woman present in the room
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And that's eli erlick, accused of sending minor drugs and sexualising abusing them
@@rhymerlegend2717 They are women~ ✨
@@rhymerlegend2717 you can't tell me you look at Samantha and you see a man, that's a woman right there
@@mrcattoonist4766 a woman who defended a sex offender and agrees with sex offender eli erlick
Pearl just proves that if you scratch a TER”F”, you find a conservative.
Pearl and Sydney rocked this panel IMO ❤🙌🏻
Pearl was ok… Sydney is better
They both sucked ass
7:50 I've said this before and I'll say it again:
I find it ironic that the people complaining about trans people in sports are the same people complaining about participation trophies
get over it, apparently
Congratulations, You emerged the winner of (my mystery Box containing
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There also the quickest to scream groomer. Hump the flag. And listen to q. Hmnnnn
There are biologically differences between men and women or male and female, whatever you call it. Ofcourse there’s always genetic advantages I’m not denying that,
But trans women retain 30% of their male bone density and muscle mass, this doesn’t immediately mean they are stronger but if a female and a trans women both would train the same way, eat the same things every day, the trans woman is gonna have the upper hand because there are biological differences,
I don’t think trans women don’t belong in women sports, but we as a society aren’t that far we can turn a man in a women, leaving no trace of the trans women every being a man, this doesn’t account for every spoort by the way
@@tomvandeklok1376 Nope not even close. The correct answer is it depends. Your figures are way off and not based on science. You the answers change because transgender does not mean monolith. These are individuals and each is different. Your dog whistle dogma does not apply because it assumes. It assumes because it advances an agenda. Science does not advance agenda it collects fact at a moment.
@@jgaffney567 first of all how is your figure not based on science, it’s coded in your DNA.
Second of all, I am very aware each Trans individual is different but then men can also compete in women’s sports right? Because there are men who are weaker then women right? Being a men also isn’t a monolith, by what your saying.
We are talking about on average
Sydney overall is pretty well spoken.
Pearl's idiotic argument about men going to war (parroting misogynistic talking points) doesn't even make sense. The idea is that men were considered disposable because they would be shipped off to die in battle. But having ten-plus babies before modern medicine is incredibly dangerous, making women at LEAST as disposable as men supposedly were. Your wife died in childbirth? Whatever, just get a new one to pop out a bunch more.
She also ignores that women were actively excluded from engaging in war by men, not their own choice. Not to mention that women have been some of the most vocal opponents of the draft.
All of her arguments are just the crap you'd expect to read on some MRA subreddit.
@@ArcticWolfe84 yeah, most feminists oppose the draft for everyone. Myself included!
Good point, Johanna. Her argument is wrong in every way; there have been two or three drafts instituted since women won the right to vote, and women were not drafted, so that was never even an idea that anyone had back then. And she claims that nobody ever talks about men's bodies, but that's just downright stupid -- millions of words have been written debating and arguing and trying to justify the drafting of men into military service. The subject has been covered from every possible angle, ofc, because men talking about our own problems has been 95% of public discourse for thousands of years.
@@ArcticWolfe84 not to mention that they women in countries getting attacked who didn't go to war were getting raped and killed by soldiers.
@@johannaweichsel3602 good luck when there’s an invasion. 😂
Samantha: “You don’t need to call them biological men!”
Translation: How dare you say something factually true that makes me feel bad about myself!!
lol
Wow you really got her there, go touch some grass lol
She literally says she knows open you ears
0:09
She literally explained her reasoning in the first 9 seconds of the video.
7:12 all I could think of was Pearl from Finding Nemo 💀
The NCAA has allowed trans women to play in women's sports since 2010 (after one year of hormone replacement). Since then, not a single trans woman has dominated in any women's sport, including basketball. Not once.
💯
at 7:34 during your Pearl impression when you looked around the room for approval like she ALWAYS does, I died laughing queen hahaha
I'm actually here within the first hour for once!
Anyways, I'm FTM and I just got a gender-affirming haircut! I'm actually so happy! When my haircut was finished I quoted Pinocchio!
@Justin Thanks. Wishing you well too 💙
So happy for you 💓 😁 woot woot!!
Massive slay
i’m so happy for you! i got mine in November of 2021 and i’ve been getting them ever since. i hope you like it!!
@Sweet1919YT Yay! Happy you're feeling more confident and wishing you to have a nice day 😙💗
I’m a 6 ft tall trans woman who goes to the gym and competes in sports… and there are 5’0” cis women can out play me and out lift me any of the day of the week… sooooooo
@Ville = uneducated 🤡
Serena Williams is one of the heaviest female in tennis and she is only 160 pounds , 40 pounds less than average men tennis player, having male in women sports is nuts
Serana WIlliams is heavier than me lol and I'm 6'5 trans women lol
@@evelynbrocious exception
Your editing is fun recently I love it!
I've never heard women's sports talked about so much until trans women started showing up, just saying...
Have you not seen the ratings for female sports? The WNBA literally loses all kinds of money that the NBA completely finances.
What was interesting to me was that Sydney Watson endlessly demanded people listen to her perspective as a cis-gender woman, but was beyond outraged when anyone dared to start a sentence with "as a trans woman" or "as a black woman"
Cause they had their say in the talk but kept cutting others off
Sydney doesn't call herself cis though.
Because Pearl and Sydney wanted to stay on topic, which was feminism. Naturally, if anyone comes across a trans, all they want to talk about is, well, as always, being trans.
Sydney became frustrated that the feminists/trans on the panel kept trying to deflect from the points she made because they had no actual rebuttals. Thus their "as a trans woman" desperation Hail Mary's.
This ain't all that complicated.
Because it wasn't about race or how people iDeNtIfY, it was about feminism and the struggles of being female
Literally just watched the vice video and saw you uploaded this after I finished watching! YES algorithm 😂🎉
I hate these debate shows because they always try to “both sides” the argument. We have one side that just wants to live our lives and the other side that wants to stop us from doing that. It isn’t a balanced argument.
Eli is a legend tho. I’m glad she didn’t take any crap.
Y’all can live your lives but when y’all begin to unfairly compete with biological females who are biologically and physically inferior, that’s when y’all aren’t just “living your lives”. That’s where the divide begins because y’all can’t except that y’all are physically advantaged compared to biological females.
@@nellyc3669 trans women are biologically female. I refuse to debate with TERFs or any other bigots. I will not reply to anything else you post.
Yea we should all idolize someone whose been accused multiple times sexual assault and peddling illegal drugs to kids.
@@greeneibball36 she’s taking Blair Shite to court for those allegations.
@@alicecourtney5816 yea sure, anyone can file a lawsuit for anything these days.
The TV show Supergirl has the very first Trans Female Superhero to be featured on Television. This superhero is called Dreamer. She makes her debut in season 4. The actress that plays this superhero is in real life a Trans Female.
Who was the trans woman researcher who came in with all the facts? I'm kinda crushing on her and her big brain after this video. As a trans/non-binary PhD student specializing in researching anti-trans violence and discrimination, I have, of necessity, also been following the healthcare bans and other anti-trans legislation being put into place because these things are inextricably linked to one another. And anyone who doesn't realize that hasn't been paying attention.
Would love for you to react to the entire thing! The comments are turned off and the “red pill” TH-camrs are the only ones covering this
Yeah pearl is 6ft tall and if she played even an athletic man that was 5’9” she would LOOSE!!! You can’t just say that you yourself would loose when you aren’t in competitive sports. It’s not comparing all men and women in sports it’s comparing athletic men and women! A 6ft man that didn’t play sports would loose to pearl, but a 6ft man that did play sports would whoop her bc he is much stronger. So funny how you say they don’t know what they are talking about when really you have no idea what you are talking about
I went from being in all-male meetings to being the only woman in many of them, trans or otherwise. I didn't rob any cis women of that opportunity, and I am extremely aware of my representation for queer, trans, and all women in those situations. Sometimes, I am the ONLY female representation in some places.
"You're literally a white woman from Australia" is a statement in of itself. I watched the debate in full (and sad Vice turned the comment section off) but coin vest has been going off. There's been a lot of really good points like how pretty "white" women have been the forefront for feminism since basically the start and women of color, disabled women, and trans women have been left in the dust. I think the biggest problem is that people will simply look at coin vest and only see her rage and not her points because she made a lot.
But "you're literally a white woman from Australia" wasn't the main point though, the point is trans girls women whatever color have no impact on her life at all, or her cis-het middle class privilege it is all irrational fear and anxiety that has been put in such women's minds by the conservative media.
coin vest lady was the craziest one there.
Well, then they should start their own movement. Feminism is about women, not trans women, black women, disabled women or white women. Pearl even asked what barriers there are for them as WOMEN and NOBODY could give an answer. And "you have white pretty privilege" isnt an answer. And the coin vest woman did not make any valid point.
They all just want a free for everything card and do whatever they want without any consequences.
@@Sensei0ne Pearl even admitted there was a barrier in HER OWN OCCUPATION and tried to justify it because "women aren't entertaining like the men." There were even talk about laws being in place to remove the rights from women's bodies. Women are more likely to be sexually assaulted simply by existing, women get less job opportunities than their male counterpart simply on the base of their sex. And Pearl, who is seemingly the standard for cishetero white women, even devalues the idea that she does benefit from a privilege that most of the other women in that video don't benefit from (whiteness, thinness, able bodied, etc).
If feminism is just about "bEiNg A WhItE StRaiGhT BiOlOgIcAl WoMan" than it's a complete downplay to the millions of women who simply do not fit that and are still oppressed in American society.
@@Thenpai thats not a barrier... and women are less entertaining in most sports... WNBA makes a profit of like 20million a year and the costs are 60 million a year. When a pro female soccer team lose to 15 year old boys or 60 year old men. When i watch female soccer its like watching soccer in slowmotion. So it's not a barrier based on women vs. men, its just not as entertaining as men's sport in most cases. Less people watch it, less people buy the merch etc.
Nobody said feminism is about white able bodied thin women... thats why i included white women in the comment. Its about women without any adjective in front
Ooh,sparkly outfit🌌 You're tottaly rocking it! :)
If you are a biological male then nothing is wrong with stating that fact. Trans people love to "other" themselves when it suits them
How are trans people othering themselves?
when men who play dress up think they're women and have a right to talk about women's issues 😂
Hey come on... Don't spit the truth like that. It'll hurt delusional brains
Trans women are women. Do cry more sweetie!!
@@translivesmatter9063 1k+ comments on SaMANtha's channel... Do get a life sweetie!!
@@modest8930 I have one, thanks cupcake.
Happy new year samantha!
Thanks for the information. on this topic. Much appreciated
I'm a trans woman who's 5'4 and still have some height dysphoria, it's a long story
Girl I WISH I was that height, I'm 6'1 and it kills me
@@Jane-oz7pp I'm sorry, I wish you too could be the height you want 💜... For me the thing is, most all the women in my family are super tiny, and every since I was a kid I wanted to be super tiny, like around 5'0. I know there's no science to this but I feel if I had not gone through male puberty that I would be really really little too like the rest of the females in my family.... I feel perhaps my brain is "wired" for the body of a really small female, and that's why I feel dysphoria. Being around women who are tiny like 4'11 or 5'0 really triggers my dysphoria, as bad as that sounds
@@Jane-oz7pp Yep society is weird you are either too tall, too short, too fat, too thin, stuff em, I can't tell you the secret to success, but the secret to failure is trying to please everyone.
@Nathan me too
@Nathan I always thought that 5'4 was "on the short side" for even females but when I go out in public most females just seem SOOOO tiny. I feel like a freaking giant a 5'4 even
actual women who has arguments vs woke woman
Her saying women sports is as entertaining as men sports is her being a pick me? It’s literally a fact.
That makes me so angry. People thinking the sports thing is unfair because trans women have an adventage and not even looking up the data that shows that they're not dominating the field of the sports. There are cis women that have anatomic adventages aswell and that still doesn't mean that someone doesn't have to put work into it and it doesn't mean they will get all the titles.
Maybe she didn't word it in the greatest way but she has a point with the sports issue. Biologically, males and females are completely different aaannd preferred gender doesn't impact that fact in any way.
30 year olds don't compete against children because the gap in ability is too great.
Pearl being tall has nothing to do with anything. The transwoman next to her was smaller and weaker ... and not even an athlete. Put her up against a 6 foot basketball player and it would be a fair comparison.
Transwoman absolutely should be able to compete in sports but I think it needs to be done fairly. Males and females have different bodies in many ways, some obvious, physical and hormonal ways and even some not clear to the naked eye. I think the best way to make it fair is to have a separate category for individuals who don't identify with their sex.
They use the best available science and it being science it gets updated. They make it as fair as possible that is why you see only one champion. The great majority do not make headlines. The one is used as a token example of how unfair it is.
I agree, I think it's a shame that vice uses people who have such extreme views (and poor ability to listen) to hold their discussions. Because all it results in is an even wider chasm between the groups. At the end of the day this stuff is complicated, we should be hearing real respectful discussion, with nuanced opinions and people who are willing to listen on BOTH sides.
There are already rules in place to make it fair. Hormones significantly change someone's abilities. There simply aren't enough trans people to have separate sports teams etc.
@@susanleslie6178 there are NOT rules in place to make it fair. Transwomen only lose 3-5% of their male strength levels after 3yrs on HRT.
@Susan Leslie I agree that it looks like the governing bodies have put steps in place to try and make it fair but the truth is that hormones can only change so much.
Men are naturally bigger and stronger with better stamina. Taking them off testerone doesn't suddenly shrink them and alter the structure of their bodies.
Of course it changes their personal performance, but you can't say it 100% aligns it to the precise place a woman would naturally fall into.
You can amend the hormone levels but you can't compensate for the other natural advantages that are already in place.
off topic but your eyebrows are literally perfect💗
*Fact* 👌
in high school we had people well over 6ft tall playing basketballl on both the boys & girl's teams. we had a freshman standing at 7'2", some were 6' or under, with the varsity being 6'2"-6'5". the girl's team were mostly 5'10-6'1" save for a couple below that height, with one of them being about 6'4"
even then, the people below between 5'10" and 5'6" made up for that by being some of the most agile, quickest, and/or fastest members on either team.
sports are litered with unfair advantages. that's half the meta game within athletics, to have as much of an advantage on your opponent, that is also allowed within the set rules of the game.
in basketball or softball/baseball, their were girls that were leagues better than the boys and vice versa. speed, strength, endurance, agility, and just the raw skill required when it comes to throwing a ball, batting, shooting a basket, etc.
both teams would regularly make it down to state championships, we've had players from both teams go play division 1 college basketball.
the advantage is negligible. regardless of that fact, there aren't nearly enough trans women or trans men for that matter, participating in high school, college, or national/semi-pro athletics to warrant such a hostile & fear mongering response.
this is also before being aware of or talking about how that going on hrt (for transfeminine people) takes a big hit to your muscle strength, it takes a lot more work to remain physically fit than it ever did before (usually). olympic committees have already discussed this and ran independent studies to gather the info to make those decisions/protections olympics level trans athletes.
When I played basketball in middle school, I was always the tallest thickest one in he game. My team went undefeated simply because I could reach passes that would go over everyone else’s heads. However, when I hit high school, I was on the shorter end. Puberty had hit me different, I didn’t grow much taller, instead gaining more muscle mass and weight. I couldn’t play the same position, and I couldn’t use my height to my advantage the way I did before. I didn’t even make the team. But that’s the name of the game. Everyone is different and you gotta use what you’ve got to your advantage in order to win games. Anyway, I switched sports cuz I wasn’t cuttin it in bball anymore. 🤷🏾
This is ridiculous lol. If there were just as many trans women in womens sport as biological women. There would be no biological women left competing.
Lowkey, have you ever wrestled or done anything physically competitive with a female? Wrestling with an adult female feels like tossing around a 9 year old. Barely even have to try.
Its an insane argument. 15 year old boy soccer players can defeat the womans professional soccer team. You could take the bench warmers of any college team and pair them against the female WNBA all star team, and the all star team would be smoked.
Having coached and officiated basketball, both boys and girls, for many years I can wholeheartedly attest that the ability level between genders is deep. Abyss deep. So much so, that if you placed the 16-0 undefeated Class A girls team against the 0-16 winless Class D boys team, the boys would win in a rout.
Just the way it is and to try to peddle a lie that counters what everyone can easily see with their own eyes will be difficult to sell.
Doesn't mean the girls can't enjoy sports and compete against each other, but it just seems trans people are so determined to become a third gender or something of that sort, that they need to screech that any advantage between the genders is "negligible", which is blantantly false.
And IOC determined after "much studies" that traswomen indeed have advantages over women. Even after taking hormones for a long time. Your argument is stupid.
I would love to see a 5’10 trans woman who is 180 pounds of muscle just absolutely annihilate a 6’1 woman in footbal and see if your view changes 😂
I don't agree with Sydney Watson but she's a queen 👑
The problem with modern feminism it's nolonger about equalnrights byt soecial treatment for women, which is why a lot of traditional feminists have stepped away from the "feminist" moniker and now go by "egalitarian"
Personally it's not so much equality we need but equity because men and women have different needs. Yes there are some things that are universal but there are somethings that men need that women don't, some ghings women need that men don't and some things trans individuals needs that neither men nor women need.
You're pro trans but you agree with Pearl's anti f3minism?
@@ianwazowski5607 I don't care if someone is male, female trans or whatever, people are people and as such should be treated as such. But everyone is different.
And have different needs.
Modern feminism isn't about equality it's about stepping on men to get to the top not realising that those men are in the same boat as them, it's not Joe average working on a building site to support his family that's the problem, it's people like musk, bezos and trump. The rich and powerful, they keep us fighting among ourselves so we don't notice what they are doing. If you look you'll notice the one's pushing the gender war are the people on top, the millionairs. The ones who could if they wished fix things but choose not to.
Even the whole suffragette movement wasn't for women's rights, it was for class rights. They were fighting for the right for all "educated middle class property owning individuals" to have the right to vote. And were actually opposed to lower classes getting the vote and their victory in getting the vote was due in large part to a much wider struggle including a lot of disgruntled soldiers returning from WW1 disgruntled factory workers (many of whom were women) and miners and the russian revolution (western powers seeing what was happening in Russia and hearing similar stirrings through western Europe and America made the choice to extend voting powers to appease the masses)
Modern feminism has gone against this class struggle and turned it into a gender war, instead of joining forces against those that are actually oppressing all of us we fight each other
Bob working the till at your local supermarket is the one underpaying you, it's the CEO who passed rules against discussing pay
Bob isn't the one making you pay 20% more for a pink razor, that's the marketing department at Gillette
Yeah some men are shity, but so are some women.
My issue with feminism is that it paints all men as the enemy and all women as the victims and even glorifying women on men abuse. Heck I've even seen them ridicule men who were the victims of domestic abuse, demand to see their partners phones or accuse them of cheating just for going to work and glorifying stalking their partners but if a guy asks to see a woman's phone all hell breaks lose.
This is why I'm pro egalitarianism. Because we need to stop fighting each other, join forces and fight those who are actually the cause of most of our problems
Fact, Sydney wouldn't have a fraction of her following if she weren't Australian.
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Sorry I don’t mean to be rude, but what do you mean by that?
@@iriswicker5622 to quote Ken Hamm(also Australian) when he debated Bill Nye,(loose quote), "People don't necessarily like what I have to say, but being Australian they like how I say it, so I'm gonna say it"
I'm also Australian. Turkish-Australian.
@@neurodivergentpixi6736 Sure🙈🙈
Opinion**, I don’t watch these videos usually but I’d listen to her Over the other ppl bc she backs up what she says with evidence and facts…the other ppl only use opinions and emotions. They all use the same hype words/lines/reasons everytime even though they have been proven false countless times
Im lost, is Pearl supposed to be a feminist? (Well, terf technically) Cause she doesn't even sound like she thinks cis women should have rights. Like, youcannot convice me that shes a feminist.
Ever notice how a lot of self-proclaimed pro-life people can't seem to give a fuck about children once they're born? It's basically that. It's not really about protecting children, and in the case of terfery it's not really about protecting women and children.
Pearl is certainly on the more overtly tradcon side of the spectrum, but terfs generally speaking don't tend to lean progressive, and a limited idea of what a woman should and is allowed to be is the norm rather than an exception to the rule. The feminist think-about-the-children angle is a justification for hateful narrative.
Pearl is not a feminist. Her channel caters to the Red Pill “Men Go There Own Way” aka MGTOW crowd.
No pearl is a men's rights activist. She even stated that feminism is a 'man hating organization'.
Exactly she's just a pick me girl only
She’s spilling facts tho. Girls just get in there feelings bc she calls them out. She not a pick me, she just don’t give a single fuck.
I love the bone density argument because as an afab person I was born with amab bone density.
lol no, you weren’t. get help
Seeing how I have had doctors tell me this. Yes I am.
Exeptions are not what usually happens, we don't make general rules based on a few exceptions.
Most women don't have the bone density that man have, Nature made it that way and it' s fine, there' s no need to fight reality.
Pearl and Syndney won that debate. Defaulting to shame tactics vs debating their points demonstrated the feminists had nothing but their feelings.
Vice turned off their comment section because they mostly supported Sydney and the other gal and Sydney's video on this has 1.3 million views vs a little over 30 some thousand for this video so who are people listening to?
Nah, they lost. Pearl’s argument is that every trans woman would destroy her in sports, because of physical advantages. Eli then clearly showed this to not be true, by o pointing out how Pearl is massive, when compared to Eli. Sydney then accidentally confirmed Eli’s argument by saying Eli could never compete at Pearl’s sports level. That was Eli’s point. She can’t compete at Pearl’s level. Being a trans woman doesn’t automatically make you a goddess of athletics. That’s not how it works.
@@trumpanzeehunter9505 As Pearl always points out, those with little argument go for the exception and not the norm, as you just did with your Pearl/Eli comparison. A surefire sign of the desperate. You inadvertently backed up Pearl's point. Thanks for the assist. That's how it works.
@@hellogoodbye4061
You wrote an entire paragraph, yet said nothing.
I think what Sydney was meaning with her comment about not playing at Pearls level is that Eli and Pearl are not comparable. Pearl is semi-pro. If a semi-pro male basketballer transitioned then he would
crush her, which I think is the misconception.
Sydney and Pearl are arguing about Lea Thomas and the weightlifting women, professional athletes who have transitioned. Eli is arguing for pre hormonal trans to be allowed. They are both right in a sense.
Yes. And yes!
1. Yes trans women should be included in feminist conversation. Everyone should be! I'm so sick of people confusing feminism for hating men. Feminism is just wanting equal rights for women including trans women!
Men can be feminists too. I refuse to date a man or woman who does not identify as a feminist because that tells me they don't even know the meaning of the term.
2. Yes trans women should be allowed in sports because after being on hormones for as long as they are stating is necessary for participating I have to assume that means their bodies are similar enough or hormones are similar enough to put trans women and cis women on equal playing fields in the realm of sports. End of story.
Modern day feminism IS all about hating men and trying gain advantages over them. Its long ago stopped being about equality. because thats been achieved. Now its about whose the biggest victim.
Very salty and ignorant. You're twisting everything to fit your flimsy narrative.
The average American male is 5'9. The average female is 5'3 and 1/2. A woman who is 5'11 is very tall.
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That is somewhat wrong for the usa per world population review average male height 5 feet 9 inches for women 5 feet 4 inches. So in the usa women average 5 feet 4 iches.
Secondly yes it is rare for females to grow above 5 feet 7 . But female (yes biological females) athletes mostly swimmers are very tall over 6 feet like Katie Ledecky.
why are you trying to change the context of what she is saying ?.....5 11 is normal in wnba. Why you compare it to avg women when she was a wnba player they re talking about sports you completely lost the context
Happy new year hunny, amazing dress! 🤩
I love how everyone else gets quiet because they know nothing they say will change what she thinks because she's just too far gone 🤡🤡🤡
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or they just have no response cuz nothing they say holds up with even the smallest push back? when people are right they know they are right and they hammer with the facts supporting them, if their wrong they usually resort to name calling and evading the question. which i saw alot of the "feminist" woman doing in this entire clip.
yeah right? Because answering questions in a debate is so LAME and not, like, what are you supposed to do?
@@francescamazzonelli1670 If someone says 1 + 1 is 3, what exactly are you supposed to say? Can't really say anything to that. Its just wrong
@@poknberry5795 like when? When they asked about why sleeping around without taking accountability for consequences was empowering and didn't get an answer, or when at the question "what barriers do you face" the best they came up with was "there are Ramps" (as disabled men obv does not face them too)? Because they didn't seemed stupid questions.
Oh lord I got a Matt Walsh ad during this 🤮🤮🤮
I got a Pro-forced birth ad. ewww.
@Ville Hyppää kaivoon.
Ew I actually feel sorry for you because no women deserves to see any ads from him especially when he does not know the definition of a women is a person
@@ruthperez7985 Wow! Your all so lost... Please define a woman. Ill wait... A woman is a person duhhh! But what kind of person? How are they different from men? Maybe your getting an ad from Matt Walsh because algorithm or maybe God knows you should maybe try and look at things differently and see something your entire side refuses to watch or actually listen to the important talking points.
The TERFS faces when they got absolutely destroyed was hilarious 😂
Pearl: I don't care what you say!!!! My opinion matters!!! I am woman!!!
Every feminist in the room: *gasp* samsies!!!
honey there were 3 men with makeup there it doesn’t work like that ❤
Pearl didn’t say anything about not caring about their opinions ? Are you that biased that you can’t see that all the other women refused to listen to anything they said and couldn’t come up with a single factual response or example when asked a question. It’s the complete opposite of what you said
@@alecjoncas7764 exactly
I absolutely ADORE the little sound effects added here and there in your video lol Love you. Much love from Latin America!
Of course trans women should be included. They are not a threat
This is beyond ridiculous. You want us to cater to the 1% so they feel "included" at the expensive 99% of biological women who are loosing spots on teams, loosing scholarships, loosing podium finishes, loosing records. This is literally just trans women being straight up NARCISSISTS. No amount of hormones will completely remove the biological advantages such as bone density, lung capacity, blood cell count, muscle mass, hand size, foot size, height etc. This is a FACT. It is just straight up cheating. Common sense.
@@jjchockey bro where is this happening?? trans women are not taking scholorships or records lmao
@@vannavee3 They 100% are and its only going to get worse if things don't change. Lia Thomas is the most well known. Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood got 1 and 2 at a high school track event in CT. Wren Pyle, Laurel Hubbard, Natalie Ryan. Do you want me to keep going?
Look at it from a biological women perspective. Imagine training your whole life just to get beat by a biological man. Imagine not making a team because there are 2 trans women that got your spot. Imagine not getting a scholarship because the trans women got your spot. It is SO unfair to them, this is literally just common sense.
Again why are trans women's feelings more important than the 99% of biological women competing in sports?
This isn't transphobia this is just a basic truth that it is unfair for biological men to compete against biological women. It's as simple as that. Many trans women agree.
@@jjchockey Lia has worse times, only won a handful of matches, and never beat a woman's record while competing with women. Would you mind pulling up her actual record instead of believing what everyone else tells you to
@@TransIsBest "only won a handful of matches" there is the proof you are asking for, you said it yourself. It doesn't matter if she smashed world records or not. She stole a spot on that team and a podium finish from the biological women. Again it's literally just common sense that it's unfair. I should not need to prove this.
But since you are asking...
With a time of 4:37.32. Lia is the fastest ever recorded at Harvard University’s Blodgett Pool.
Tiffany Newell Newell won the women’s 45-49 Canadian indoor 5,000-meter race, setting a national record along the way
Jenna Lingwood won the 40-44 Masters championship at the 2022 USA Cyclocross Nationals in Connecticut.
Mountain biker Kate Weatherly has won two national titles.
How much more proof do you need?
yeah, and in many college trans women have being getting the prize (what about that swimming competition? They litteraly stole the girl's cup)
I’m an anti feminist, and even I cringed at this lol
What's a anti feminist. You mean you hate women but like men that want to be women.
You are anti f3minist yet you have a comment saying trans women are women?
Interesting that you think Everyone has different biological advantages is somehow a good argument. You do realize that rational just means sports should just flat out not be sex segregated at all right? Is that what you want? Because then the only representation would be cis men trans men trans woman and cis woman just wouldn't have a seat at the table
Vice sucks for having this panel. Their panelists are people who have financial dependence on these empty bad faith talking points. At least they had people there to shut down this rhetoric
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