As you touched on, the biggest single reason for using the drop punt was the change in footwear. Up until the early 70's, players still wore actual boots, lacing up above the ankles. Most likely due to the large influx of Italians, Greeks and other European nationalities after the WWII and them using the lower cut football boots for soccer that we are now familiar with , they started to gain popularity among players, giving a greater degree of flexibility to the foot, making it easier to extend the toes, a necessity to kick the drop punt consistently. Anyone that has tried kicking a footy in ankle high work boots can attest to how hard it is to kick a drop punt naturally whilst doing so. This, followed closely by the increasing professionalism of the game, where unnecessary mistakes are less and less tolerated, meant that the drop punt with its accuracy and repeatability and isolation from external factors like wet or muddy grounds was destined to become the kick of choice for footballers. Really good video and love seeing how the game evolves over time, both for good and bad.
Low cut boots were introduced in the mid to late 1960's. Adidas started selling low cut boots in Australia which were lighter, and became popular with players. Local manufacturers altered their product as a result. Jenkin (?) boots bought in a low cut, but I think they retained the hard toe. (It was so long ago.) A hard toe would have been ideal for place kicks. I remember my dad showing me how to place kick. Tony Ongarello (Fitzroy) is credited as the last person to use the place kick in the VFL in the 1950's. He used it in desperation as he was missing many shots at goal. The place kick when executed properly was an accurate kick. When Tony used it, it was a rarity even then. The place kick probably started to die out in the 1930's. It had been used from the very early days of football in Victoria. Drop kicks when done properly was a thing of beauty, especially when on the run. Carlton's Ian Robertson was an exponent of the long drop kick as was Richmond's Billy Barrot. Ron Barassi hated it, as the margin for error was great. Barass's own kicking style was awkward, and being the coach banned his players from using it. Drop punts were only allowed.Other coaches followed suit. The stab kick was a modified drop and I loved doing them. Low and fast, with a lot of power behind it, almost knocked me over when marking it. Geelong's Billy Goggin was an expert of the stab, so too Barry Price of Collingwood. The 1970 GF shows Robbo and Barry Price drop and stab passing. South's Bobby Skilton was a marvel, he could kick any type of kick just as well with either foot. When you consider the playing surfaces back in those days, acres of mud, (Glenferrie Oval was a real shocker) quagmires with gluepot cricket pitch centres, water logged grounds, only one ball being used for the entire game, those blokes of the past would have a field day playing on today's well drained bowling green like grounds.
@@blueycarlton Place kicking died out in the 1920s, exacerbated by the rule change in 1925 when the boundary throw in was abolished & a free kick awarded against the player who last touched the ball before it went out.
@@poida66 They turned their back on the direction of the kick, used the heel of their boot to dig a small mound and aligned the ball resting up on the mound. They kicked the rear point of the ball with the hard toe of the boot.
Excellent video, mate! In the early 80s this rugby league boy had a kick-to-kick with two Melbourne lads in a park in Wagga. I had never seen a drop-punt and was fascinated. I could outkick them with my torps 7 out of 10 times, but the other three times we’d be rescuing the ball from the tree branches. They, on the other hand, could put it right on my chest every time, and with force. I quickly converted. Today, I can’t kick a torp to save my life. I do miss them, though.
As a kid in the 60's we kicked torps, stab passes, drop punts and drop kicks. If we kicked a flat punt it was by accident or as a kick under pressure. We also called them floaters. Due to the irregular spin or no spin they did not go very far. I don't recall deliberately doing these kicks and certainly I don't think they were that accurate. My recollection of Peter Hudson is that he was usually trying to kick a torpedo but if it didn't come off then we called it a flat punt. We became quite proficient at torpedoes and could achieve a high degree of success. However some time in the seventies I remember there was pressure from coaches to only use the drop punt.
I played under 17 football for South Colac in the late sixties and early seventies, I always preferred the torpedo punt and could kick it consistently straight 65 to 70 metres. Most of the team liked to kick torpedoes too. One day I marked the ball approximately 40 metres from gaol on about a 45 degree angle. Stupidly I decided to go for a drop punt, I kicked the ball high into the air and didn't reach the goals. All my teammates yelled at me "Why didn't you kick one of your great torpedos" it still haunts me at 66years old. Fair Bloody Dinkum what a bastard. It feels great when you really get onto a torpedo.
Nothing more sweetly satisfying than a massive torp! I can only hit them properly about 1 in every 7 or 8 times, but when it comes off they sail a good 60+ metres. Always fun! Thanks for the recollection.
in 1981 I did a junior football coaching clinic with the legendary Kevin Sheedy. He forbid the flat punt, the drop kick and the under the ball hand pass, instilling us in his now normal top of the ball hand pass and the drop punt, he told us winning football is all about controlling the ball, and these two gave the player much better control and was easier for your team mates to receive
Fascinating. Back in the early 70s there was book called "Football: The Australian way" with Carl Ditterich on the cover. It featured the whole suite of kicks. Can recall the older style of books: wore them as a kid but they were already on the way out. By 1977 it was all low cut.
@@dougieboxell6505 wouldn't it! I could just imagine the biased commentators abusing the players when it goes wrong But they fail to realise drop punts ALSO go wrong ALOT of the time and this is simply just dismissed and laughed off When I was a kid I found kicking flat punts I could get more distance however I was discouraged because it wasn't technically correct personally I've always struggled a bit with the drop punt, I've always found it more comfortable with middle fingers along each sides of the grooves in the ball In junior football coaches never helped us develop a good technique you were just expected to know how to kick and proceed to training drills If I had of got my kicking right at a younger age it would have helped out throughout my football career I've also always wondered why players who weren't as tall as me could kick it further I never had a good technique it was a major letdown It becomes harder in later life if you don't learn early I think drop punts are probably the hardest kick to perfect to be honest
@Dougie Boxell honestly If I learned to place kick then I know I would get a lot more force with the leg swing and kick it alot further from set shots Football shouldn't be a one size fits all I'd feel a lot more confident distance wise kicking a place kick then a drop punt as there's not as much timing involved, I think I always tried to kick drop punts too hard When its kind of like golf and not really about how fast you swing but I never knew this untill after my footy career was done lol nobody bothered to help me with my kicking either when they knew it was a letdown because I could get the pill and do everything else right but drop punts always just felt awkward to me even the ball grip I was never confident with them It would be great to see a change in the game it’s become a bit robotic players should be encouraged to work with their strengths as we aren’t all fking robots
I've always thought of that after all Peter Hudson kicked 150 goals in 1971 using nothing but the flat punt! I reckon some players could even improve their accuracy by doing that!
Rahul Bhatia 1971 isn’t all that long ago Look at rugby for example, and the place kick if it misses then it never misses by much does it? Not as much as a stray drop punt It got me wondering why, All of a sudden these type of kicks just don’t exist anymore? It’s clear to me that some players don’t prefer the drop punt as they’re kicking around the body and they always seem to get demoralised and shunned when they miss? Big deal drop punts miss all the time aswell what’s with the weird religious like obsession over the drop punt? It doesn’t really make much sense and why have these kicks been stamped out of the game? That also doesn’t make sense Drop punts are so heavily overrated especially when it comes to accuracy I would even say a drop kick is more accurate if practiced and perfected for me personally there’s a much further degree in difficulty in perfecting a drop punt and I always assumed that flat punts, drop kicks and place kicks were stamped out because they were in effective or something but I honestly don’t believe that’s the case
Thanks for that, interesting. The stab pass, (the drop kick variety) was terrific to see in action and the Geelong side of the 1960's were brilliant exponents of it.
Great vid mate super interesting stuff! would be interested to know the correlation between the evolution of the shape of the ball compared to the use of the drop punt. You would think the end on end drop punt is much more suited to the modern, pointer footy. Otherwise, keep the content coming!
McKenna was the pivotal figure in popularizing it when kicking for goal. The disadvantage of a drop punt is that most players develop a 'curl' on the ball whereby it goes right-left or left-right. The flat punt doesn't travel as far but could still be utilized in the modern game for players who are inconsistent in front of goal as it doesn't have a real curl, it mostly goes straight.
Agreed, don't think you'd see too many 'natural arcs' during the run-up of attempting a flat punt either! Of all the kicks of yore (including the place kick, drop kick etc.), I think the flat punt has the best chance of making a return, but only if some players actually practiced it and realised it would increase their goalkicking accuracy.
Thanks for a great video. It was really interesting to hear about the rapid development over the last 50 years. With regards to the flat punt, I still remember lively discussions between my dad (a Carlton supporter) and my eldest brother (a Collingwood supporter): My brother claimed that Sticks Kernahan was still an exponent of the flat punt (complete with the helicopter spin). Dad's response was generally something along the lines of "it works though"!
Great video mate, it must have taken you hours to produce. Certainly glad it popped up in my recommendations. I couldn't agree with you more also on the prominence of snaps and bananas used for set shots. I feel like i cringe and mutter like an old boy when players opt for a snap when they could easily kick for goal with a drop punt. Suppose this is exactly what happened when the drop punt started to rise in popularity. Either way i think we can all agree on bringing back the barrel!!!
Thanks mate, it did take a fair while, but the positive feedback and great stories from people in the comments is worth it Yep, Tomahawk was a prime example of that last weekend, snapping around the body and missing when he could have kicked a drop punt! And I agree... bring back the barrel!
Its good to see you uploading more regularly, if you keep up this quality of work and frequency you could soon be one of the biggest AFL youtubers. Great stuff mate
Wirrapanda used to crank them out regularly, and then Shannon Hurn took over from him. Not seen too often though. I remember Jeff Farmer kicked one from outside the boundary about 50 m out to win a game for Freo.
@@calebramat7649 you answered your own question "if u get it perfect". It's a far more inconsistent kicking style, and the game today is about certainty and consistency. The torp also seemed to work better with old balls (no longer an option in today's game) and wet balls, again almost unknown now, where the extra mass could work in your favor.
I remember in NZ when rugby union players started to switch their torpedo punts to afl style drop punts when kicking the ball out. They started going for accuracy over a few extra metres of distance (and the risk of not kicking out at all or the ball slicing off the side of the boot). Commentators were even making the point of the 'aussie rules' style of kick . I don't know if it is a coincidence but it started around the time Former All Black Nick Evens started playing professional rugby. When Evens was young he played rugby in winter and AFL in summer (in NZ AFL is played in the summer by a handful of teams). Apparently he was good enough that he was getting scouted by Australian AFL teams before committing to rugby
Having been fortunate to grow up with elders who played in the 50's-70's I was fortunate to see players who knew how to execute the drop/stab kick. It is still the most accurate kick if you execute it properly. But given the poor skills in today's game I doubt it'll ever come back which is a shame.
I wouldn’t call it poor skills, I think the dynamics of the game has changed. Nowadays it’s much more about showiness, and fluency rather than the consistent and precise execution seen in the older game.
Thanks mate. The ranking videos will always get more engagement based on their very nature, but I prefer doing the deep research that goes into these videos. I'm a Collingwood supporter, but I love the sport as a whole.
I can recall Kevin Wall playing for Wentworth introducing the drop punt in 1961 before anyone else even thought about using it on a regular basis in a game.
Can't believe it was the 70s where it became the supreme method. I knew it wasn't popular early in the game, but I thought it took over between the wars! Crazy. I used to play rugby, and I actually feel more comfortable from a standing start with a drop kick then a set shot drop punt, but I think I will be bashed in ammos if I try it.
Australian test cricketer Neil Hawke was the player who made the drop punt popular as a full forward in late 1950's with the SANFL & WAFL. WAFL full forwards Neil Harvey (Claremont) and Austin Robertson Jr (Subiaco), used the drop punt exclusively kicking for goal from the early 60's.
It seems to me that the drop punt should be the most utilized form of kick due to its accuracy. But some situations call for another type of kick, such as a curling kick like a banana or even the torpedo. Sometimes just pure distance is more important, imagine having to kick for goal from 55-60 meters after the siren.
Crazy how the 25 to 40 meter drop punt at goal is a 50/50 kick now days. Wonder if it’s lack of set shot practice? My hot take is the around the body is here to stay. I think anything within 30 meters of goal will be 80% around the body snaps in the near future.
Kevin Sheedy and mysrkf were trying to develop a low flat hard pass kick together in my school yard in 1972,torpedos at each other from 39 metres away,they were like arrows.
Don't remember the player and aren't even sure about the teams (Geelong v Fitzroy, I think), but I remember hearing a game on the radio in the 90s where someone kicked a goal with a drop kick. The margin was about 10 goals up at the time, so he could afford to show off.
Very well researched. As to the accuracy, well, who knows? It looks good to me. A lot of work and a meritable effort. My hat's off to you for that. When wearing my 'Jenkin Topliners', I used to drop-kick a ball, both feet, 70 yards. It was a very long time ago. The older I get, the better I used to be . . . 😜 😜
@@BillSaltbush Thanks Bill for the kind words. I just took a look at those Topliner shoes. They look like a mixture of high-top Chuck Taylors, and ten-pin bowling shoes! We have certainly come a long way.
any stats on round-the-corner snapshots vs drop punts? particularly when close to or directly in front? It's, of course, such a common thing to see today, but I never thought snaps were any more accurate than drop punts, aside from tight angles
hey mate, only Champion Data would have access to that sort of stuff, but I'm not sure even they go that deep on their analysis. It's a bit of an anecdotal thing. I definitely think there are some players these days who get so nervous with the normal set shot drop-punt routine, overthinking everything, that they try the snap around the corner playing on instead. If I was a coach and saw my player miss a snap around the corner from directly in front I'd be fuming.
Actually I think he was probably the perfect player to highlight the opposite point, inaccuracy - he is so unreliable in front of goals he chooses to snap when the regular player would drop punt instead.
Great video, and good to learn more history of the game. Though i'm not sure the Stevey J snap is actually more accurate for set shots. certainly helps on angles but I doubt it's much better if at all than a drop punt from a minor angle. Would love to see a video on the Rocket Handball (I believe invented or at least popularised by Kevin Sheedy) and the dribble kick that curls back.
Funny thing is west Australian football has always been different i remember as a kid snap and banana kicks at goal were common place except in the afl
I guess with a flat punt you just middle the body of the ball off the centre of your boot, like how children attempt to kick without technique- except measured and deliberate.
Haha, in other videos I've been accused of being everything from a St Kilda supporter to an Essendon supporter to anything in between so it's funny to see someone's finally got it right. Although I'd like to think I don't have any bias - this story in particular just featured some Collingwood players at its origins.
Are the current players who choose to snap a set shot rather than punt it suffering from a lack of confidence? I’ve been out of the country for ten years, so I rarely get to watch a game these days. Seeing it just now reminds me of them kicking the round ball in the international matches against Ireland.
Interestingly, we've seen in NSW that many younger players are traditionalists opting for the flat punt or even moungrel punt, kicking only for distance or field position, even when a teammate has a paddock.th-cam.com/video/Y1kX4OWYcgk/w-d-xo.html
Like all sports the AFL has evolved and changed in the last 50 years at incredible rate, and will keep evolving for the next 50 years and it’ll be worth watching.
I thought the place kick held the record by far for distance. Just the thing to bring out for an after the siren kick from an impossible distance for normal kicks perhaps?
In 1970 Collingwood centreman Colin Tully was credited with kicking the longest drop kick with an unofficial distance of 107 yards. Tully drop kicked the ball from the right wing square of centre. It went through for a goal and landed 7 rows back. English rugby union player, Douglas Morkel, is credited with the record distance for a place kick (or any kick) of 105 yards.
I was born in the '60s in South Australia. Although drop kicks and torpedoes were popular from day 1 I taught to kick a drop punt and Ken Farmer who kicked 100goals 11 years in a row predominantly with the drop punt in the 1930s. You might want to check out some other history other than Victorian. It's been the kick of choice in SA since the 30s. Vic bias again.
Thanks for the feedback David, but I'll happily dispute your claim about Farmer. I'm well aware of his goal kicking prowess, but not once did I read anything about him using the drop punt. In fact, North Adelaide FC's own History page puts the theory to bed: "...when questioned in later life as to any areas of the game he could have improved upon, Ken stated that he wished that the drop punt had been invented when he was playing. He believed he could have been even more accurate if this modern kick had been in vogue instead of having to rely on screw and flat punts." Also, I wouldn't go as far as to infer Vic bias. That's a bit of a slight on the research I have done both in the past and will continue to do so. I hope you stay tuned to the channel. Cheers.
I actually think it is for set shots, so long as you do it all within 30 seconds and place the ball far enough back from the man on the mark (which are a couple of reasons why it wouldn't be attempted). Dermie tried one in the 90s I believe, while playing for Sydney in the ressies, and the umpire wouldn't let him do it because he didn't know the rules... do a bit of googling and there's some stuff around that I think
My bro & I perfected "stab pass torpedos" just for fun. In the games we played in together I'd sometimes hit him up with one!. My coach once said... and you, stop trying to shoot people...
Thanks! With the flat punt, it's basically gripped like a torpedo but not angled, like what the players are doing at 1:28. The idea with the kick is that it doesn't really rotate or spin through the air too much, so less chance for it to deviate mid-air I guess. Given how accurate Peter Hudson was with the flat punt (and many other players) there could be an argument for bringing it back, but like the drop kick, it does have a higher chance of stuffing up - if the ball flies off the side of the boot.
I mean incorrect disposal by dropping the ball generally only applies when you're tackled (players don't really have much use for dropping the ball in open play, and bouncing is a thing as well), and the drop kick was allowed for a very long time in the past, so I don't see why it can't still be allowed in footy.
The flat punt is an accurate low trajectory kick used up until the 1970's for shooting for goal where the player holds the ball with hands spread either side of the laces similar to a torpedo punt . The ball is held low steady and flat , with the seam directed at the target , watch Hawthorn goal kicking great Peter Hudson in action using the flat punt . When executed correctly the ball should spiral off the boot , but will often float or wobble when kicked into the wind , yet travel straight . The key to kicking a flat punt is , holding the ball very steady with hands predominantly placed on the top portion of the ball , and kicking with a smooth , firm action .
Ahhhh so that's what the derro kids said riding past called me on my way to Maccas - Flat Punt
One of the great full forwards of all time peter mckenna in the 70s perfected the drop punt
And paved the way for what it has become
As you touched on, the biggest single reason for using the drop punt was the change in footwear. Up until the early 70's, players still wore actual boots, lacing up above the ankles. Most likely due to the large influx of Italians, Greeks and other European nationalities after the WWII and them using the lower cut football boots for soccer that we are now familiar with , they started to gain popularity among players, giving a greater degree of flexibility to the foot, making it easier to extend the toes, a necessity to kick the drop punt consistently. Anyone that has tried kicking a footy in ankle high work boots can attest to how hard it is to kick a drop punt naturally whilst doing so. This, followed closely by the increasing professionalism of the game, where unnecessary mistakes are less and less tolerated, meant that the drop punt with its accuracy and repeatability and isolation from external factors like wet or muddy grounds was destined to become the kick of choice for footballers.
Really good video and love seeing how the game evolves over time, both for good and bad.
Low cut boots were introduced in the mid to late 1960's. Adidas started selling low cut boots in Australia which were lighter, and became popular with players. Local manufacturers altered their product as a result. Jenkin (?) boots bought in a low cut, but I think they retained the hard toe. (It was so long ago.) A hard toe would have been ideal for place kicks. I remember my dad showing me how to place kick. Tony Ongarello (Fitzroy) is credited as the last person to use the place kick in the VFL in the 1950's. He used it in desperation as he was missing many shots at goal. The place kick when executed properly was an accurate kick. When Tony used it, it was a rarity even then. The place kick probably started to die out in the 1930's. It had been used from the very early days of football in Victoria. Drop kicks when done properly was a thing of beauty, especially when on the run. Carlton's Ian Robertson was an exponent of the long drop kick as was Richmond's Billy Barrot. Ron Barassi hated it, as the margin for error was great. Barass's own kicking style was awkward, and being the coach banned his players from using it. Drop punts were only allowed.Other coaches followed suit. The stab kick was a modified drop and I loved doing them. Low and fast, with a lot of power behind it, almost knocked me over when marking it. Geelong's Billy Goggin was an expert of the stab, so too Barry Price of Collingwood. The 1970 GF shows Robbo and Barry Price drop and stab passing. South's Bobby Skilton was a marvel, he could kick any type of kick just as well with either foot.
When you consider the playing surfaces back in those days, acres of mud, (Glenferrie Oval was a real shocker) quagmires with gluepot cricket pitch centres, water logged grounds, only one ball being used for the entire game, those blokes of the past would have a field day playing on today's well drained bowling green like grounds.
Great comments guys, love this sort of discussion and knowledge - thanks for watching the video and chiming in.
@@blueycarlton Place kicking died out in the 1920s, exacerbated by the rule change in 1925 when the boundary throw in was abolished & a free kick awarded against the player who last touched the ball before it went out.
blueycarlton, did they use a tee or something (a mound of dirt even?) to hold the ball in place when doing a place kick?
@@poida66
They turned their back on the direction of the kick, used the heel of their boot to dig a small mound and aligned the ball resting up on the mound. They kicked the rear point of the ball with the hard toe of the boot.
bruh how can you call a drop punt silly then just bitch slap the footy and call it a handball
So true
elite comment
The place kick lookd insane
Excellent video, mate!
In the early 80s this rugby league boy had a kick-to-kick with two Melbourne lads in a park in Wagga. I had never seen a drop-punt and was fascinated. I could outkick them with my torps 7 out of 10 times, but the other three times we’d be rescuing the ball from the tree branches. They, on the other hand, could put it right on my chest every time, and with force. I quickly converted. Today, I can’t kick a torp to save my life. I do miss them, though.
As a kid in the 60's we kicked torps, stab passes, drop punts and drop kicks. If we kicked a flat punt it was by accident or as a kick under pressure. We also called them floaters. Due to the irregular spin or no spin they did not go very far. I don't recall deliberately doing these kicks and certainly I don't think they were that accurate. My recollection of Peter Hudson is that he was usually trying to kick a torpedo but if it didn't come off then we called it a flat punt. We became quite proficient at torpedoes and could achieve a high degree of success. However some time in the seventies I remember there was pressure from coaches to only use the drop punt.
I played under 17 football for South Colac in the late sixties and early seventies, I always preferred the torpedo punt and could kick it consistently straight 65 to 70 metres. Most of the team liked to kick torpedoes too. One day I marked the ball approximately 40 metres from gaol on about a 45 degree angle. Stupidly I decided to go for a drop punt, I kicked the ball high into the air and didn't reach the goals. All my teammates yelled at me "Why didn't you kick one of your great torpedos" it still haunts me at 66years old. Fair Bloody Dinkum what a bastard. It feels great when you really get onto a torpedo.
Nothing more sweetly satisfying than a massive torp! I can only hit them properly about 1 in every 7 or 8 times, but when it comes off they sail a good 60+ metres. Always fun! Thanks for the recollection.
in 1981 I did a junior football coaching clinic with the legendary Kevin Sheedy. He forbid the flat punt, the drop kick and the under the ball hand pass, instilling us in his now normal top of the ball hand pass and the drop punt, he told us winning football is all about controlling the ball, and these two gave the player much better control and was easier for your team mates to receive
Fascinating. Back in the early 70s there was book called "Football: The Australian way" with Carl Ditterich on the cover. It featured the whole suite of kicks. Can recall the older style of books: wore them as a kid but they were already on the way out. By 1977 it was all low cut.
It would be cool if someone come out in the AFL and just started kicking flat punts and place kicks and drop kicks
would be fkn sick
@@dougieboxell6505 wouldn't it!
I could just imagine the biased commentators abusing the players when it goes wrong
But they fail to realise drop punts ALSO go wrong ALOT of the time and this is simply just dismissed and laughed off
When I was a kid I found kicking flat punts I could get more distance however I was discouraged because it wasn't technically correct personally I've always struggled a bit with the drop punt, I've always found it more comfortable with middle fingers along each sides of the grooves in the ball
In junior football coaches never helped us develop a good technique you were just expected to know how to kick and proceed to training drills
If I had of got my kicking right at a younger age it would have helped out throughout my football career
I've also always wondered why players who weren't as tall as me could kick it further I never had a good technique it was a major letdown
It becomes harder in later life if you don't learn early
I think drop punts are probably the hardest kick to perfect to be honest
@Dougie Boxell honestly If I learned to place kick then I know I would get a lot more force with the leg swing and kick it alot further from set shots
Football shouldn't be a one size fits all
I'd feel a lot more confident distance wise kicking a place kick then a drop punt as there's not as much timing involved, I think I always tried to kick drop punts too hard
When its kind of like golf and not really about how fast you swing but I never knew this untill after my footy career was done lol nobody bothered to help me with my kicking either when they knew it was a letdown because I could get the pill and do everything else right but drop punts always just felt awkward to me even the ball grip I was never confident with them
It would be great to see a change in the game it’s become a bit robotic players should be encouraged to work with their strengths as we aren’t all fking robots
I've always thought of that after all Peter Hudson kicked 150 goals in 1971 using nothing but the flat punt! I reckon some players could even improve their accuracy by doing that!
Rahul Bhatia 1971 isn’t all that long ago
Look at rugby for example, and the place kick if it misses then it never misses by much does it? Not as much as a stray drop punt
It got me wondering why, All of a sudden these type of kicks just don’t exist anymore? It’s clear to me that some players don’t prefer the drop punt as they’re kicking around the body and they always seem to get demoralised and shunned when they miss? Big deal drop punts miss all the time aswell what’s with the weird religious like obsession over the drop punt? It doesn’t really make much sense and why have these kicks been stamped out of the game? That also doesn’t make sense
Drop punts are so heavily overrated especially when it comes to accuracy
I would even say a drop kick is more accurate if practiced and perfected for me personally there’s a much further degree in difficulty in perfecting a drop punt and I always assumed that flat punts, drop kicks and place kicks were stamped out because they were in effective or something but I honestly don’t believe that’s the case
Rare footage of the 2016 Bulldogs’ handball practice at 1:15
lol true dat
Haha nice!!
Thanks for that, interesting. The stab pass, (the drop kick variety) was terrific to see in action and the Geelong side of the 1960's were brilliant exponents of it.
agreed. There was nothing better than a Billy Goggin stab pass to Doug Wade.
Great vid mate super interesting stuff! would be interested to know the correlation between the evolution of the shape of the ball compared to the use of the drop punt. You would think the end on end drop punt is much more suited to the modern, pointer footy. Otherwise, keep the content coming!
McKenna was the pivotal figure in popularizing it when kicking for goal. The disadvantage of a drop punt is that most players develop a 'curl' on the ball whereby it goes right-left or left-right. The flat punt doesn't travel as far but could still be utilized in the modern game for players who are inconsistent in front of goal as it doesn't have a real curl, it mostly goes straight.
Agreed, don't think you'd see too many 'natural arcs' during the run-up of attempting a flat punt either! Of all the kicks of yore (including the place kick, drop kick etc.), I think the flat punt has the best chance of making a return, but only if some players actually practiced it and realised it would increase their goalkicking accuracy.
Thanks for a great video. It was really interesting to hear about the rapid development over the last 50 years. With regards to the flat punt, I still remember lively discussions between my dad (a Carlton supporter) and my eldest brother (a Collingwood supporter): My brother claimed that Sticks Kernahan was still an exponent of the flat punt (complete with the helicopter spin). Dad's response was generally something along the lines of "it works though"!
Great video mate, it must have taken you hours to produce. Certainly glad it popped up in my recommendations.
I couldn't agree with you more also on the prominence of snaps and bananas used for set shots. I feel like i cringe and mutter like an old boy when players opt for a snap when they could easily kick for goal with a drop punt. Suppose this is exactly what happened when the drop punt started to rise in popularity.
Either way i think we can all agree on bringing back the barrel!!!
Thanks mate, it did take a fair while, but the positive feedback and great stories from people in the comments is worth it Yep, Tomahawk was a prime example of that last weekend, snapping around the body and missing when he could have kicked a drop punt! And I agree... bring back the barrel!
Its good to see you uploading more regularly, if you keep up this quality of work and frequency you could soon be one of the biggest AFL youtubers. Great stuff mate
Thanks mate, hopefully I can grow a bit of a following! Every sub counts, thanks for the support
Really interesting as always! Surely there is room in the game for someone to perfect torpedos?
Wirrapanda used to crank them out regularly, and then Shannon Hurn took over from him. Not seen too often though. I remember Jeff Farmer kicked one from outside the boundary about 50 m out to win a game for Freo.
Yeah torps n barrells, idk why no1 tries, if u get it perfect its as straight as an arrow
@@calebramat7649 you answered your own question "if u get it perfect". It's a far more inconsistent kicking style, and the game today is about certainty and consistency. The torp also seemed to work better with old balls (no longer an option in today's game) and wet balls, again almost unknown now, where the extra mass could work in your favor.
much harder to mark
@hanajinks In WA we use Burley's and I noticed they are a different shape to the Sherrins too.
Very interesting video. When I played junior footy in the 90s our coach used to show us how to drop kick for fun.
Excellent historical review of football kicking types used in Australian Rules Football (AFL). Thans again. [a Tiger barracker since world War Two.]
Unreal video mate, thanks for putting it together!
Glad I saw this in my recommended keep on bringing out the great content
They way the kicked it back then was like me in year 2
Mate! Absolute AWESOME content as usual!!! Keep up the good work!
What a great video i hope you make more!!I There should be lots of vids like this well done .
Great video!
I remember in NZ when rugby union players started to switch their torpedo punts to afl style drop punts when kicking the ball out. They started going for accuracy over a few extra metres of distance (and the risk of not kicking out at all or the ball slicing off the side of the boot). Commentators were even making the point of the 'aussie rules' style of kick . I don't know if it is a coincidence but it started around the time Former All Black Nick Evens started playing professional rugby. When Evens was young he played rugby in winter and AFL in summer (in NZ AFL is played in the summer by a handful of teams). Apparently he was good enough that he was getting scouted by Australian AFL teams before committing to rugby
Having been fortunate to grow up with elders who played in the 50's-70's I was fortunate to see players who knew how to execute the drop/stab kick. It is still the most accurate kick if you execute it properly. But given the poor skills in today's game I doubt it'll ever come back which is a shame.
I wouldn’t call it poor skills, I think the dynamics of the game has changed. Nowadays it’s much more about showiness, and fluency rather than the consistent and precise execution seen in the older game.
Come back these vids are amazing
Wow great effort with the research! Quality video!
Nice one mate!
While it will be hard to outdo the top 50 marks/kicks videos you made in terms of views, I love these ones. What AFL team do you go for?
Thanks mate. The ranking videos will always get more engagement based on their very nature, but I prefer doing the deep research that goes into these videos. I'm a Collingwood supporter, but I love the sport as a whole.
Great vid mate! Some serious research here
Good stuff!
I can recall Kevin Wall playing for Wentworth introducing the drop punt in 1961 before anyone else even thought about using it on a regular basis in a game.
Can't believe it was the 70s where it became the supreme method. I knew it wasn't popular early in the game, but I thought it took over between the wars! Crazy. I used to play rugby, and I actually feel more comfortable from a standing start with a drop kick then a set shot drop punt, but I think I will be bashed in ammos if I try it.
Australian test cricketer Neil Hawke was the player who made the drop punt popular as a full forward in late 1950's with the SANFL & WAFL.
WAFL full forwards Neil Harvey (Claremont) and Austin Robertson Jr (Subiaco), used the drop punt exclusively kicking for goal from the early 60's.
These videos are amazing!!!!!!!!!
Please make more!!!!
Love these especially now that footy season is coming to a close.
Good very listenable voice for narration.
Really well made video, love to see content covering the history of our great game!
Great vid. Thanx.
It seems to me that the drop punt should be the most utilized form of kick due to its accuracy. But some situations call for another type of kick, such as a curling kick like a banana or even the torpedo. Sometimes just pure distance is more important, imagine having to kick for goal from 55-60 meters after the siren.
Absolutely quality content mate well done
Amazing it took so long to be embraced if it was much more accurate.
I guess for most of the game's history, distance was more important.
Well I just figured out jesaulenko played for Eastlake and now I’m happy
Crazy how the 25 to 40 meter drop punt at goal is a 50/50 kick now days. Wonder if it’s lack of set shot practice?
My hot take is the around the body is here to stay. I think anything within 30 meters of goal will be 80% around the body snaps in the near future.
Interesting ; thank you ⭐️
i cant stand Aussie rules as a spectator sport, but i enjoyed the hell out of this video
When I thought I knew a lot about footy history. Apparently not haha. Very interesting video 🤩
Kudos to you for your production
I am of an age to appreciate the subject ..... then again , with all that s going on , it s only footy !!
Thanks Simon, sometimes I wish I was around for that era too, but I can never get enough from researching it! Enjoy the upcoming finals.
Kevin Sheedy and mysrkf were trying to develop a low flat hard pass kick together in my school yard in 1972,torpedos at each other from 39 metres away,they were like arrows.
Me neither, did one of those kicks in a game towards unsuspecting teammate 30m away. Another yells out: you shot him...
I wonder who the last player to take a deliberate shot on goal with a drop kick was?
Brereton famously wanted to employ a place kick in a game and the umpire refused his request
Don't remember the player and aren't even sure about the teams (Geelong v Fitzroy, I think), but I remember hearing a game on the radio in the 90s where someone kicked a goal with a drop kick. The margin was about 10 goals up at the time, so he could afford to show off.
@@AM-xl6ro What was the umpire's logic? "By putting it down, you've offloaded it, so play on."?
Orazio Fantasia
Very well researched. As to the accuracy, well, who knows? It looks good to me.
A lot of work and a meritable effort.
My hat's off to you for that.
When wearing my 'Jenkin Topliners', I used to drop-kick a ball, both feet, 70 yards. It was a very long time ago.
The older I get, the better I used to be . . . 😜 😜
Jenkin Topliners . . . do a google search and you'll find a great photograph in the Australian Sport Museum pages.
@@BillSaltbush Thanks Bill for the kind words. I just took a look at those Topliner shoes. They look like a mixture of high-top Chuck Taylors, and ten-pin bowling shoes! We have certainly come a long way.
any stats on round-the-corner snapshots vs drop punts? particularly when close to or directly in front? It's, of course, such a common thing to see today, but I never thought snaps were any more accurate than drop punts, aside from tight angles
hey mate, only Champion Data would have access to that sort of stuff, but I'm not sure even they go that deep on their analysis. It's a bit of an anecdotal thing. I definitely think there are some players these days who get so nervous with the normal set shot drop-punt routine, overthinking everything, that they try the snap around the corner playing on instead. If I was a coach and saw my player miss a snap around the corner from directly in front I'd be fuming.
@@extraverse fair enough, cheers anyway
Those goal signals at 7:53 and 8:03 though
Amazing that you'd feature a clip of Jason Castagna in regards to goalkicking accuracy
Actually I think he was probably the perfect player to highlight the opposite point, inaccuracy - he is so unreliable in front of goals he chooses to snap when the regular player would drop punt instead.
What's the difference between a flat punt and a torpedo??
I'm a 90s boy I still droppunt I play whatever way makes me feel comfortable
:/ any new uploads coming soon, do miss ya good content
Great video, and good to learn more history of the game. Though i'm not sure the Stevey J snap is actually more accurate for set shots. certainly helps on angles but I doubt it's much better if at all than a drop punt from a minor angle.
Would love to see a video on the Rocket Handball (I believe invented or at least popularised by Kevin Sheedy) and the dribble kick that curls back.
Funny thing is west Australian football has always been different i remember as a kid snap and banana kicks at goal were common place except in the afl
Great vudeo
love 2 see the torps !
What’s the difference between the flat punt and torpedo? I feel like the flat punt would be hard to execute without gaining some sort of spin
I guess with a flat punt you just middle the body of the ball off the centre of your boot, like how children attempt to kick without technique- except measured and deliberate.
I love how TH-cam creators are talking about afl. Finally. But I feel like you're a Collingwood supporter...
Haha, in other videos I've been accused of being everything from a St Kilda supporter to an Essendon supporter to anything in between so it's funny to see someone's finally got it right. Although I'd like to think I don't have any bias - this story in particular just featured some Collingwood players at its origins.
@@extraverse No bias detected haha you just used used some very favourable adjectives for the collingwood club legends lol
Good work 👍
Peter McKenna made it from 1966 on as the main kick for goal. You only need to watch old footage.Its all there. and he was incredibly accurate.
Are the current players who choose to snap a set shot rather than punt it suffering from a lack of confidence?
I’ve been out of the country for ten years, so I rarely get to watch a game these days.
Seeing it just now reminds me of them kicking the round ball in the international matches against Ireland.
when are you gonna upload again your videos are great
Hey, thanks! I've been a bit quiet during the footy off-season, understandably, but I'm working on some new content to come out next month :)
@@extraverse
Can't wait
@@extraverse
No pressure mate but how are you going with new videos?
Bring back drop kick...a well executed drop kick for distance is awesome... maybe after a rushed behind...
when will you make a new video
Looking back at old footy matches, you've got to wonder what the fuck was going on in their heads.
Hayden Bunton Jnr made Swan Districts on;y use the drop punt in 1961,
I spent hours as a kid trying to perfect the reverse punt. Only to conclude it is a stupid kick that deserves to be forgotten.
Quality video
this is a great video. But i am not sure how they would create a new kick lol would be cool to see though!
Haha, bring back the place kick maybe!
Interestingly, we've seen in NSW that many younger players are traditionalists opting for the flat punt or even moungrel punt, kicking only for distance or field position, even when a teammate has a paddock.th-cam.com/video/Y1kX4OWYcgk/w-d-xo.html
Could you do a video on reserves please.
Excellent
What if you kick it and it just snaps forward. Wouldnt that work the same as the drop punt
Drop punt is the straightest, and most accurate kick in the game. And pillocks these days still try to snap the goal from the top of the goal Square
yeah those are really annoying!
round the corner snaps from the goal square is why we can't have nice things
Like all sports the AFL has evolved and changed in the last 50 years at incredible rate, and will keep evolving for the next 50 years and it’ll be worth watching.
hanajinks well I haven’t said the AFL got better in the last 50 years.
AFL will eventually be netball by foot once the glut of ex players suing the league from concussion forces the league to ban full contact.
The AFL is NOT a sport - it is a business organisation. The sport is Australian Rules Football!
I thought the place kick held the record by far for distance.
Just the thing to bring out for an after the siren kick from an impossible distance for normal kicks perhaps?
Yep, i remember reading that in the 1996 Guiness Gook of Records. I think it was in the 1920s and it went 120 yards.
In 1970 Collingwood centreman Colin Tully was credited with kicking the longest drop kick with an unofficial distance of 107 yards.
Tully drop kicked the ball from the right wing square of centre. It went through for a goal and landed 7 rows back.
English rugby union player, Douglas Morkel, is credited with the record distance for a place kick (or any kick) of 105 yards.
So you’re telling me Dangerfield is a quintessential 1930’s footballer
Personally I think we should bring back the good old screw punt - just think Bob Hammond, Neill Sachse et al who could penetrate 65 m with no effort.
I was born in the '60s in South Australia. Although drop kicks and torpedoes were popular from day 1 I taught to kick a drop punt and Ken Farmer who kicked 100goals 11 years in a row predominantly with the drop punt in the 1930s. You might want to check out some other history other than Victorian. It's been the kick of choice in SA since the 30s. Vic bias again.
Thanks for the feedback David, but I'll happily dispute your claim about Farmer. I'm well aware of his goal kicking prowess, but not once did I read anything about him using the drop punt.
In fact, North Adelaide FC's own History page puts the theory to bed: "...when questioned in later life as to any areas of the game he could have improved upon, Ken stated that he wished that the drop punt had been invented when he was playing. He believed he could have been even more accurate if this modern kick had been in vogue instead of having to rely on screw and flat punts."
Also, I wouldn't go as far as to infer Vic bias. That's a bit of a slight on the research I have done both in the past and will continue to do so.
I hope you stay tuned to the channel. Cheers.
Is it still legal to perform a place kick after a mark?
I actually think it is for set shots, so long as you do it all within 30 seconds and place the ball far enough back from the man on the mark (which are a couple of reasons why it wouldn't be attempted). Dermie tried one in the 90s I believe, while playing for Sydney in the ressies, and the umpire wouldn't let him do it because he didn't know the rules... do a bit of googling and there's some stuff around that I think
extraverse wow, that’s super interesting
My bro & I perfected "stab pass torpedos" just for fun. In the games we played in together I'd sometimes hit him up with one!. My coach once said... and you, stop trying to shoot people...
You don't know how to kick until you've mastered the torpedo drop kick.
Great video actually, but I don’t understand the flat punt. It looks like a torp but I guess doesn’t travel like one? How does it work?
Thanks! With the flat punt, it's basically gripped like a torpedo but not angled, like what the players are doing at 1:28. The idea with the kick is that it doesn't really rotate or spin through the air too much, so less chance for it to deviate mid-air I guess.
Given how accurate Peter Hudson was with the flat punt (and many other players) there could be an argument for bringing it back, but like the drop kick, it does have a higher chance of stuffing up - if the ball flies off the side of the boot.
extraverse hi Extraverse yes Peter Hudson was the best forward ever so why don’t they do it? It wouldn’t hurt Mitchell Lewis to do it
bring back the place kick!!!
Someone’s suing hungry jacks
would a drop kick even be legal anymore? I would have thought that if the ball hits the ground first then it's an incorrect disposal.
I mean incorrect disposal by dropping the ball generally only applies when you're tackled (players don't really have much use for dropping the ball in open play, and bouncing is a thing as well), and the drop kick was allowed for a very long time in the past, so I don't see why it can't still be allowed in footy.
I don't know if a drop kick is illegal, but I do know a mark from a drop kick wouldn't be paid.
Then bouncing the ball would be outlawed too by that logic
I think the balls were also rounder...would have been harder to make it spin
Need more torps
Love being able to kick drop kicks with both feet. lost skill that many will never learn,
What is a flat punt? Looks like a drop punt to me.
And to think the go to kick for goal now is the dribble kick....and levi casboult bearly makes contact with any kick he tries smh
This sport would need an Ibrahimović for innovation ;)
What is a flat punt?
Most amount of boot on the most amount of ball.
The flat punt is an accurate low trajectory kick used up until the 1970's for shooting for goal where the player holds the ball with hands spread either side of the laces similar to a torpedo punt . The ball is held low steady and flat , with the seam directed at the target , watch Hawthorn goal kicking great Peter Hudson in action using the flat punt . When executed correctly the ball should spiral off the boot , but will often float or wobble when kicked into the wind , yet travel straight . The key to kicking a flat punt is , holding the ball very steady with hands predominantly placed on the top portion of the ball , and kicking with a smooth , firm action .
very similar execution to a torpedo, but the ball doesn't spin.
@@talbot8907 The flat punt does spiral when kicked properly .
@hanajinks So what do you know about flat punts ? Watch a video of Peter Hudson kicking them or Twiggy Dunne .
the run around snap kick is an atrocity. detest seeing players in front of goal doing it.