Mathematical Best way to Play Craps
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2024
- Why Betting “The Wrong Way” in Craps is the Mathematical Best way to Play Craps. While most players avoid betting “against” the dice, mathematically, it is an ever so slightly better bet than the pass line. Because a player can make money betting either way, I feel like you should be knowledgeable and prepared to bet the “dark side."
When you bet the don’t pass line, you are considered a “wrong” better or a Dark sider. There is nothing wrong with betting this way, it’s just not common. The casino doesn’t care which you bet, as their house edge is nearly the same either way.
There are 8 ways to roll a loser and only 3 ways to roll a winner. This is the big dis-advantage you have on the come out roll. If you can make it past the come out roll and a point is established, the odds of winning are now in YOUR favor as the seven is the number most likely to roll. At this point, No other number rolled effects the game. You simply wait for the seven to roll before the point number.
Want to add odds? after the dealer moves your don’t come bet up, simply put your chips down on the layout and ask the dealer to “lay odds” on your don’t come.
You can download FREE POWER PRESS CHARTS here.
www.colorup.club/power
Get a free beginner craps video course here.
www.colorup.club/learntoplay
Also considering joining the Color Up Club here.
www.colorup.club
The opinions in this video are not guaranteed or warranty to produce any particular result. This video is for informational and entertainment purposes only. Any form of gambling carries an inherent risk. Never gamble with money you cannot afford to lose. Anyone who believes they, or someone they know, may have a gambling addiction, please seek help.
National Problem Gambling Helpline 1-800-522-4700 Call Text or Chat NCPGambling.org - บันเทิง
Another perfect explanation of odds and house advantages. Thank you Color Up!
Color Up, I really like the Challenge videos and will continue to watch them as they premiere, but the charisma and cadence you possess makes watching your instructional and informational videos just as entertaining.
Appreciate your effort.
I appreciate that!
Thank you for the videos. I've been a recreational craps loser for several years. Built a nice table to practice on. Spent about 40 practice hours believing various pass line, place, one time roll bets would work out. Finally gave up at nearly 4K down. Been practicing Don't pass for last month (another 40 hours) and have slowly clawed my way back. Long stretches of even play (plus or minus a few hundred). For my budget and desire to play for more than a couple hours, Don't Pass with 2x odds is the way to go. I've also run a comparison of this with Don't Pass, Hedge (3 come bets w/ 2x odds) after the 1st point, with switch to Pass with Hedge after 2nd point. Same results, but more engaging.
You my friend are the reason I watch TH-cam videos. I learned more from you about the game of craps than I ever had expected. And a big thumbs up for you and all of your videos. Thank you again for the knowledge.
Wow, thanks
Plenty of youtube channels on craps out there but I'm always drawn to yours. Layout, explanations and variety. Well done.
Thanks, I’m honored
Great video sir I really enjoyed that thank you very much.
You are correct. No difference (tiny)! You have to make the best bets, with the least house edge, and most of all GET LUCKY! Thanks for all the helpful videos.
Absolutely!!
Excellent video. One more thing is that you better have a big bankroll if you want to take the very slight advantage that the don't offers. The reason the Vig is virtually the same is because even though the 7 will hit more, the house is gonna pay you less on it. If you're rolling and you 7 out, you win and you pass the dice. If you make the point you lose and you keep rolling! Main reason most don't betters never rolled a days. I've seen a few get clobbered by their own rules! Either way is fine but you'll have a hell of a lot more fun on the pass line. Just don't play all the carnival bets. Thanks for the video.
always entertaining and informative stuff
Excellent explanation! Loved it!!!
Thanks Rick
Good stuff. Thanks for breakdown
Glad it was helpful!
Great explanation. I went with the math and played for hrs and was losing and losing. I would have lost more if I kept taking odds but half way I stopped. I switched to a hybrid/hedge and that didn't work either. Calculated to infinity is correct. I was suppose to win most often after the point but didn't. Math is one thing, gambling is another. Still after hrs of play I was down less then a hundred. I calculated it to be the price of a movie ticket with popcorn and a drink every two hrs I was playing, which is pretty nice. I thought that was a fair price to pay for entertainment.
I’m 18 now and living in Vegas, studying up so I can deal when I turn 21. I appreciate all the valuable info!
Ceg
Keep up the studying! Best of luck, buddy!
Just go to Canada and play plus there's no gambling tax
Are you dealing now?
@@jamo_montana1628 no my real estate career took off. So just playing the tables now😂
Learned a lot from this vid mr.j
Good one as usual,, well done on the explanation
Glad you liked it
"Now tell him the best part Randolph," Mortimer said.
Randolph, (chuckling), "No matter if our clients make money, or lose money, Duke & Duke always get their commissions."
"Sounds like you guys are a couple of bookies!" (from the movie Trading Places)
Great job on this one!
Thanks!
New to craps, really enjoying your channel!
Glad you like, and thanks for watching. It’s a great game
Nice video explaining “dark side” betting. I like to play the dont’s because it’s a simple strategy for me. I try to get three points up, then hope for “Big Red”. I make a maximum of four don’t pass bets per shooter. On a five dollar table with 3-4-5 odds the most I can lose is $140 if all four points get knocked off. And yes, I do realize there are the potential losses of trying to get the points up if a seven or eleven roll on the come out. The four maximum bets keep my bankroll from getting destroyed on a monster roll. The pass line is fun to play with others . My issue is, I’m always trying to hit that monster roll and will try regressive betting in hopes of limiting my losses when the seven does eventually show itself. Its a boring strategy that I play, but it does keep me from my propensity to chase my losses. Lol
You use for money management. Fine way to play. You never know which side will win, dark or light.
Here's a way to think about these bets. While it's true a pass line bet is a good bet on the come out, once a point is marked it turns into one of the worst in the casino. That is why it's recommended to change the math on a bet that is more likely to lose than win by adding more money, or full odds, which is strictly even odds to soften the math against the flat bet. Doesn't sound too appealing but it is recommended.
The flip side is the don't come. It's not a great bet on the come out but once a point is marked turns into the best bet in the casino. Let's say I have a 2 to 1 advantage over the casino on the four or ten. Laying odds has the exact opposite effect on that strong flat. You're taking a 2 to 1 advantage and watering down your edge with odds that only pay true odds. Ha. Depends on how you look at it.
I get what you're saying, but it's a difficult thing to wrap your head around. Taking money out of your rail to put odds on either bet that is. I may be contrarian by nature but by being so I'm always looking for a better way
That’s why I say “mathematically best” that’s the long term numbers. As players we rarely play “long term” like the casino does. Adding or laying odds, just effects your volatility. You will win or lose more for that specific session just depending on how the dice tumble.
Very helpful video....thanks
Glad it was helpful!
The true odds bet is a coin-flip on getting a return. No house edge, but also no player edge.
Playing "light" side is more fun since you have a choice of 30 out of 36 outcomes that can win you money. Playing the "dark" side limits the choice to 6 out of 36 outcomes i.e. the "7" will win you money.
Correct
Hey Color Up. Another great video. I'm learning so much from your channel, thank you for this content. And I'm also looking forward to challenging you when you get thru your members.
I have a strategy that uses don't pass laying odds along with place bets.
I do have a question about this video. You mentioned laying odds on the don't pass of 10x etc. Could you maybe do a short video in more detail about laying odds and how it works? I'm familiar when the max odds are 3-4-5x on the pass line, then the don't pass is easy, it's 6x. But in a casino with straight double odds, the don't pass laying odds would be 4-3-2.4x (which might be confusing doing the math).
In this video you used an example of laying 10x odds on the point 4. This means that this casino table is a 5x max odds so your lay limits would be 10-7.5-6x. So if you had the $10 don't pass and the point was 5, your max lay odds would be $75.
As I'm typing this, I'm starting to confuse myself. That's why I said a video explaining it with different examples might be helpful to anyone trying to understand this. I believe another reason many people don't play the "dark side" is because they really don't understand this math.
Yeah, topic could probably use a detailed video. When you look at don't bet, i like to think..."what am I allowed to win" $10 line bet and 2x max, so i can win $20. The key is understanding the true odds. 1:2 - 2:3 - 5:6
on 4/10 i can lay $40 or 1:2 (20:40)
on 5/9 I can lay $30 or 2:3 (20:30)
on 6/8 i can lay $24 or 5:6 (20:24)
Yes , over 98% of all the books on craps say "If you take a Don't Pass Line bet with max odds you will get a low house edge %." BUT ( there is always a BUT) the more odds you lay, the LOWER your ROI ( return on investment) If you do not lay odds they have to play you 100% ROI. Plus you may hedge that bet and put more odds in your favor. If you bet $10 and lay $20 odds on the 4 & 10 you bet $30 to win $20 your ROI is only 66.66% or 2/3. When you do NOT lay odds they must pay you dollar for dollar $$ for 100 % ROI. Then you may hedge the 4 & 10-- more on that later. Too many players and books put the house edge % in front of ROI ( return on investment) Play for a higher ROI $$$ and not a lower house edge. Good Luck at the tables!!
Thanks ColorUp
Well said.
A chip rack full of comments. Why, because you nailed another great video.
Good video, if you play the odds bet you skip the portion of that bet on the 7 losing it for you, so you have a better chance of winning on that portion. Also don't odds are tricky to get right in terms of amount wagered, and you probably covered that in another video.
Yep, covered in other videos, but could probably do a refresh again.
THIS was a fine video!!!
Glad ya liked
The reason the edge is not higher for the dark side is the 12 bet at come-out. Over a long period of time this "push" really costs the don't player. Without this house rule, dont pass would be slight favorite to win and no casino can stay in business without a math edge.
Yup, that push is what kills retirement dreams.
i am convinced that you are the only person in the world who completely understands how to play this crazy game, and everyone else (including casino staff) just look around at each other for confirmation that they are doing it right.
Thank you. I have run into many a dealer that doesn't know the game completely, and sometimes their supervisors never dealt the game either.
@@ColorUp i meant it more as a joke, but im not surprised to be right. this game is confusing! lol
You’re a good “tv guy.” I’d like to tell you a strategy you’ve never thought of. I live in Vegas and they change rules all the time cuz of my strategy. But you could tell people and we could make lucci.
Submit on my “dice advice” form at www.Colorup.club
Ok but what are the odds if you are a dice setter! Ha. Great explanation and well done, you still the man even if thunder rolls for you.
The "odds" don't change. In fact, dice setters reinforce the laws of probability, because most dice setters are eliminating many variables by being able to control the trajectory of the dice leaving their hands.
I like being a "dark sider" bettor. I personally use a pass line bet to hedge the DP on the come out roll & then lay 3x odds. Pretty good results so far after playing for a while. Just use a solid betting series & good $ management (loss limit & profit goal) & you have a good chance of making some decent profit. I enjoy your channel & the variety of strategies presented here, even though I don't prefer using them personally. But it's interesting to see how others play this fun game.
On these bubble crap machine I was placing series of single roll bets. I cleaned up. I would bet 3$ each on field, horn, any 7, any craps, I started with 150.00 and closed out at 800.00.
Great explanation. Even though I'm thoroughly familiar with the probabilities and expected losses of every bet on the craps table, I pretty much always play the Pass Line and take odds. I very seldom play the Dark Side - even though the expected loss is a bit lower with the Don't - because winning isn't as fun when the dealers are taking down all the Place and Pass Line bets to the disappointment of everybody else. It's not mathematically correct, but if I wanted to be mathematically correct I'd never enter a casino.
the difference is so minimal anyway, but you nailed it exactly, if you are worried about the math, don't go to the casino
That's why single bubble craps is great, you don't have to worry about other people's bets
Great video man btw how can I get on to your show i want to challenge you and i think i have a good chance on winning
Right now it’s open to club members www.colorup.club
Gotta love this guy ❤️
Ha, thanks
Is there a strategy of playing the 6 and 8 in combination with the dont pass strategy discussed here that makes sense ?
Search, hedge 6/8 strategy
I’ve done some testing and retesting on doubling down on 4 bets treated independently of themselves - pass, odds, 6, and 8.. each doubled down on when lost, and found at least with computers which have more mathematically statistic based rolls that this is probably the best way to play, what do you think?
I like doubling when winning, not when losing.
Can you bet don’t pass bar, after a come out point? And can you remove your don’t pass bet at anytime?
No, you can’t do it after because you would then always have the advantage. So it must be bet before come out roll. You can remove it though, and the casino would happily allow, because the player has the advantage.
TY.
..
Great explanation. I don't understand why more bettors don't do this on come out & then place the rest.
ive seen more players hedge their place bets this way lately
@@ColorUp Not sure if all that hedging really pays off in the long run. (Definitely a interesting game with all the different bets & payoffs.) Thanks for reply, take care.
Why would you place the rest when you give up an even bigger edge to the house ?
House edge theory works only if you plan on betting on 1 single number, and for only 1 single dice roll.
House edge was created for the sole reason of calculating the expected casino's profit over the longterm.
For players, we should solely focus on odds.
With that in mind, we should be asking ourselves these 3 questions when creating a craps strategy:
How many of the 36 dice combinations can you include in your bet?
How many dice rolls will it take to hit your stop goal?
How many dice rolls will it take to recoup a full loss?
Great advice
and here i thought the 3 would have been: 1-can this money be spent better elsewhere? 2&3-see #1. lol
In all seriousness, the ONLY strategy for craps is to have fun! Period. Happy people win more!
Can you add more money to your don’t pass after the come out roll? I never seen that.
No, after come out roll, the player is more likely to win, so casino doesn’t allow you to add to bet. You can make an additional lay odds bet.
Took a cruise, and normally play 44 or 66 inside system. There were so many point 7s that I was losing my tail. Shifted to playing don’t with odds. Started small, then eventually got up to $25 don’t with max odds. Ended up paying for entire cruise, airfare, and a few excursions. It isn’t nearly exciting, but on a cold table, it can be very profitable. No system is perfect, so I usually go in with a few in mind and change based on table dynamic
Glad it worked out for you and payed for cruise. Awesome
@@ColorUp it was boring, but great at the same time. I think i saw only one 10+ roll all week.
What about put 150 bucks on dont pass and put 25 bucks each after a point establish on each number 4,5,6,8,9,10.
If I bet $10 on a don't pass and a 7 rolls before the point, they pay me $10 for that don't pass bet. So how do they collect the 1.4% from the 10? When you say they take 1.4% of the don't pass bet do you mean that if rolled to infinity the amount I lose would be 1.4% less than the amount I win? Great videos. Big fan
The actual odds of winning the dont pass bet are 976:946. But you are paid 1:1. so the casino is essentially short paying you each time you win. That’s the percentage they keep.
Bro....your dice game videos are 🔥🔥🔥
I live overseas, and none of these casinos have dice games
Can you do a vid, where you recommend and demonstrate the best online, craps app?✌🏾
There are two schools on Don’t Pass house advantage. One that the house edge is 1.364% compared to the Pass at 1.414%. That is based on including the Bar 12 as a result (even though just a push). The other is to not include the Bar 12 in the calculation since it is not a win/loss decision. That changes the house edge to 1.403%
While the first does give the appearance of a significant advantage over Pass, the second method makes it almost even.
For those that would defend the first method, consider or explain why we don’t include non-win/loss decisions in calculating house edge on Hardway bets? For example, a bet on the hard 8 and a 5 rolls. There is no decision on the bet and it could even be returned to you at that point. That is the exact same thing as a come out 12 on the Don’t Pass.
Went to Wendover, NV over the weekend, and immediately noticed that there was no Pass Bar, but instead a Don't Pass Don't Come. Also, instead of Bar 12, there was a Stand Out 2 Does that work the same but just has a different push bet??
Yes. Some of Northern NV pushes on 2, just to be different. I think it’s kinda a marketing thing to be different than Vegas. But because the probability of the 2 and 12 are the same they are interchangeable.
@@ColorUp awesome Thanks :)
The only time I play the don't pass is when the table is cold, this allows me to ride it out until the trend turns. It's really no fun (in my opinion) to play the don't pass. I do love math and loved this explanation! Great job.
Fair enough! Most players agree with you. It is a lot of fun when the whole table is cheering together.
And you are able to tell when the table turns from hit toncold and cold to hot. Ok.
There is no such thing as hot or cold. Just the next roll.
Well with laying odds. At a minimum you have more chips on the table at any given time. But you also risk going bust faster if you aren’t playing with enough bankroll. The house would love for you to lay 10x odds with a 200 dollar bank roll.
The house loves players that put more money on the table. Take or lay odds. But yeah, not enough bankroll and player has no shot to weather even slightest variance of the dice.
@@ColorUp interesting to note that it doesnt matter in terms of returns. sure you could lose all your money in 2 rolls, but you could also gain a large percent of your bankroll depending on the odds limit. that being said, pretty much everyone would rather have lower volatility and play longer. the real value is in the compd drinks
What about a $30 Doey-Dont with a $1 Twelve hedge on the come out and THEN take odds.
4, 10 (2x odds) 5, 9 (1x odds) on the Don't Pass.
6, 8 (1x odds) on the Pass Line
Sure, if you like to play that way, just depends how the dice roll.
I new at craps if I play the don’t pass can I play the C and E to protect the don’t pass bet like the pass line
Yes, but no need to play the C as craps numbers 2-3 are winners for the dont pass. 12 is a tie, so you could bet the 12. But yes, some people will bet the E and any seven to hedge the dont pass
@@ColorUp ok thanks I’m learning from your videos keep them up
(Heckler in the back) What about free buy bets and the field paying triple on the 2 and 12?
Promotional bets, but good point and sometimes available:)
Color Up I assumed you meant “that’s available on every craps table.” Just trying to get in front of the trolls 😂👍
@@barkman1739 the heckler bit, made me laugh
What ever helps the bankrolls bottom line. For example theres a roulette table at the Plaza downtown with one green zero. Better odds for the player.
Hi, does anyone here know if casinos in general give W2G for table games or video table games like craps for example?
To be issued a W2g at a table game you have to win a bet of $600 AND at 300:1 or more. Its very rare to have a bet, especially at the craps table that meets those conditions. $600 yes, but rare does a bet pay 300:1 Sometimes a side bet, like a fire bet in some cases does pay 500:1 when 6 points are hit, and in that case, the game is stopped for a w2g.
@@ColorUp thank you for clarifying, does this also applies to video craps?
Im not positive, if it is considered a "slot machine" any win above $1200 gets a w2g. If it classified just as an elec version of table game, the same table rules would apply 300:1 And $600
@@ColorUp thank you for clarifying.
Speaking of best mathematical bet seeing as lots of you guys like to place numbers you should know that when you have 10x or more in odds it's a better bet to do a put bet. You can put any of the point numbers at any time and you would get paid more for doing it this way than if you placed or buy the numbers. For instance you could put bet 10 dollars on the 8 and do 100 or more in odds. You would get paid 20 for the flat part and paid 120 for a combined payout of 140 on 60 dollars bet.
Compare that to betting 60 dollars placing the 8 to get paid 7 for every 6 or your original 60 placed plus 70 in winnings for only 130 in winnings.
Would you rather get paid 130 or 140 for the same amount bet(60) and the exact same win lose conditions(wins on an 8 and loses on a 7)?
If you are playing on a 5 dollar table you would need more than 10x odds for the put to be better. The more odds the better. I play at casino that has 100x odds so for example you could bet 10 dollars flat bet and 500 in odds for 50x odds getting paid for 20+1100=1120 win putting an 8 vs placing 510 which is proper with 510 bet. if you were to place it you would get 510+ 595= 1105
Once again would you rather have 1120 or 1105 for the exact same win lose conditions?
Put 10+1000 for 100x odds pays you 2220
Place it tho and 1020 would be proper and that only pays 1190 for 2210 if you had same bet as the put for 1010 it would pay 2188.33 which they would round down.
Put bets can be useful when betting large amounts, but
I believe you have made a mistake in your calculations....
Your example assumes $10 flat bet and $50 odds on the #8
Win and you take down, you have $20 for flat and $110 for odds (50 pays 60) *note you said $120 here
The total amount is $130 which is the same a $60 place bet which wins $70 for a $130 total also.
But your point is valid, just in this example you would have to make a larger put bet to actually get paid more than a place bet.
Just like fishing, it’s called gambling not winning. It’s a solid maybe at best.
Here's a debate about the 36 dice combinations. Technically its 36 combinations, but in reality when a 6 & 1 roll on the dice table whether the six or the 1 comes first it doesn't matter because it still equals 7. So for me the order of the dice doesn't matter as the end result still equals 7 therefore in my mind there's only 3 ways to make a 7 and not 6. As in reality 6,1 and 1,6 are the same number combination as it still equals 7 no matter what. There's no different outcome for what order the numbers come on the dice. Meaning 6 before 1 or 1 before 6. It still equals the same amount regardless. Tell me your thoughts???
The best way to understand it better. Use two different colored dice. You can roll a 1 (red) and 6 (green)…. or you can roll a 1(green) and 6(red) both are 1/6 and total 7 but clearly are two different ways to achieve that. The fact is the math of game is built on 36 dice combos. If the math was wrong, casinos would be losing money, not making money.
There's a reason why the dont pass and dont come sections are alot smaller than the pass line. Its because they sont wanting you betting the don't side. The pass line is the first big bar in your face right up front, its because they want you to bet it. IMO
I dont understand why someone lays odd on the dont. In your example the dont bet was $10 and they put $100 in odds. number is 4 . If they win they get $60. If the bettor put the same amount on line from the beginning they would win $110. Am I missing something??
If they put $110 at beginning, there are 8 ways to lose vs 4 ways to win. so a 2:1 underdog to lose the whole amount. Or you can just bet $10 when underdog, and after point, you bet $100 to win $50 which is fair payout because you are now the 2:1 favorite with 6 ways to win and only 3 ways to lose.
You have only a fraction of a fraction of a percent chance of coming out better with the don't side betting. Also, most of us have an aversion to betting more to win less. That's why we don't play the don't side.
Correct
i am a little confused ...... why lay an odds bet if it only pays 50 percent when you can get 100 percent on the dont pass line ?
why risk 100 to get 50 in odds or odds on a come bet with laying odds . why not play them straight up with no odds .
You can if you like. Odds are payed fair. 4/10 only get paid 50% because you are the 2:1 favorite once bet is made. The flat bet faces the come out rollin which it is a big underdog and more likely to lose. Lay odds is a bet the casino has no edge and pays fair, that’s a good reason to bet it. But many players agree, they don’t like betting the favorite and betting more to win back less, they would rather bet the underdog on the pass side and win back more with odds bet
Why bet 100 dollars on the NY Yankees to win 50 dollars when they are playing the Toledo Mud Hens?.. It's because they have superior odds of winning.
@@blitzmakesunevenmm4323 I asking you , can't you just put 100 on the bet and win 100 .
Why not bet more on the flat instead of the odds if they pay half but the flat pays whole .
Laying odds on the don't has fooled this poster. If you never back up or if you always do, it's the same... on the backups.
I’m sorry, but I do not understand what you are trying to communicate.
@@ColorUp He may be saying that should you lay or play odds it's a 50/50 proposition so why do it? I actually agree when a bet travels behind a number. Why throw an even money bet ( being a lay) on top of a don't that already has a strong advantage against the house?
Ah ok. You do it because it’s a bet that the casino actually pays fair true odds. True, you bet more to win back less, but that’s because you are the favorite to win. Just like odds behind the pass, casino pays fair true odds, but you win back more because you are the underdog and more likely to lose that bet.
Dice have no brains. Gambling is about catching trends.
That’s why I play TSC... TrendSetterCraps.
Bet the pass and don't pass line on the come out and then the house has no advantage and you can lay odds on each number rolled before a 7 or the point comes out. For example, shooter comes out with a 5, you lose your pass bet but your don't pass bet wins. Now the shooter either has to make the point [5] or roll a 7 to end the roll. The odds of rolling a 5 on the second roll is 11% and rolling a 7 is 16% which means the shooter will probably not roll either thus giving you another chance to lay odd on. On the third roll the chances of rolling a 5 are 30% whereas the chances of rolling a 7 is 43%. So it is possible another number will be rolled so you can lay odds. On the 4th roll the chances of rolling a 7 is 52%. It is just math.
House does have edge when betting pass and don’t. The twelve gives them edge.
@@ColorUp 1/36 (2.78% chance of rolling) is acceptable risk and only on the come out.
Math is hard. 🤯
Inside bet is the best bet on a crap table
Great Vid but have to disagree that laying odds VS. The flat bet is better long term. Let’s look at 100 bets to keep it simple. Say the don’t wins slightly higher at a +3 over 500... so 53 wins at $100 flat bet is $5300 win vs $4700 lost for a net of +$600. On the contrary, a $10 DP wins $530 and loses $470 for a net of $60 profit, however his Lay on the example of point 4 wins $45 (53) times and loses $90 (47) times, creating a $1845 loss on the lay odds. On the DP you are better flat betting the $100, on the PL you are better taking odds as same example and winning 47 pass decisions and losing 53 bets a profit of $3690. Of course in this example I used the point of 4 as you did, but these results would change slightly if the 5,9 or 6,8 were the point.
Your example is based on winning 53 vs 47 times, and a flat bet would be better. But after the point is set, probability says The 4 should win twice as many times as at loses, so a better example would be 66 wins vs 33 loses. Try the math with those decisions.
You also have to remember 33% of the time the line bet gets decided on the come out roll. So 33% of time, the flat bet has $100 at risk, while the odds better only risks $10. On the come out roll the don’t is a 2:1 underdog, so half the time you will lose that $100 vs the odds player who loses only $10.
Why not play a line bet at all and just play the COME bet?
You can do that, but if you are shooting the dice you are required to have either a pass line or don't pass.
Casinos do have an Achilles heel running a crap table. The Dont Pass line is never used the way the game tells you to use it. Craps is a negative expectation game. There is a ratio between people who crap out without a win vs. people who hit at least one point.
Casino takes a cut from dont pass players winnings as well, they don’t care which way you play, they get their cut
@@ColorUp The Dont Pass line is a 1:1 even money bet. Win more bets than you lose and you walk out with profit. The casino gets nothing. Maybe a vig on a lay bet but that's it.
Don’t see how this is true when laying odds on the don’t actually lowers your edge. You have a big edge once you survive the come out roll. Getting even money on a 7. Laying odds greatly reduces your edge.
Many players don't like to get paid less than 1:1 after the come out roll, but it is true/fair odds for being the favorite to win the bet. Consider the initial don't pass bet as being highly underpaid at 1:1 because when you make the bet you are a 3:8 underdog. Laying odds does not reduce your edge, it just gets paid fair at that point.
Color Up but I’m saying you are increasing the house edge when you lay odds. That is a fact. Even if you are just betting 5 or 10 bucks on the line. Any odds you lay is increasing the house edge. It’s the opposite of playing pass line where the more odds you play reduces the house edge.
You're getting paid true odds though, so it lowers house edge. Psychologically, some dislike odds on DP because feel like you're risking more, but you're favored to win; just like you're disfavored to win on the Pass after come out (nobody bats at eye at betting less to win more, even though it's the same exact odds.)
You are absolutely correct. Laying the odds is one of the poorer bets at the craps table. It doesn't matter that there are 8 ways to lose and only 3 ways to win on the come out roll, since you can't play any odds until a point is established. Once you have a point you are getting even money on a bet you are odds on to win. When you lay the odds you are adding money where you have no advantage, so it lowers your overall return. Think of it this way- taking the odds is the best bet in the casino, so how can laying the odds also be good? The answer is, it's not!
By the way, while playing the don'ts is better mathematicly, it's not exactly a windfall. I believe it works out to something like for every $1000 bet you do 7 CENTS better playing the don'ts. And it's a lot more fun playing with the dice than against them. That's why so few play the don'ts.
@@jimmalachowsky4052 Poorer bets? Taking odds or laying odds is the only time in the casino you can make a bet with a 0% edge. Its the best bet on the table, or the whole casino.
Only headline that is accurate on any of your videos
I should change, can probably get better views ;)
@@ColorUp i guess you are like the news media. Make headlines that gets people to read even if they are a COMPLETE LIE.
@@UltimateTexasHoldemGuru , try not to be such a richard.
👍
Believe or not if you cover all the place numbers with equal bets you drop the vig to 1.25 percent
incorrect, all bets are independent. the house edge never changes. When adding odds to a line bet, the overall bet amount has a lower house edge, but that is the only time the vig drops. Place bets house edge does not change no matter how many or how few you make. If you make buy bets instead of place bets you can get a lower house edge.
So why not put a 20$ bet on the Pass line and a 10$ bet on the don’t pass line....Then put odds down on the don’t pass after the come out roll....That way you get the benefit of 7-11 on the pass line during come out and the benefit of winning on the don’t pass odds after the come out roll if shooter sevens out.
certainly could but hedging just causes you to lose less on one side, but also win less on the other
@@ColorUp
And that pesky come out 12 hurts.
Actually that method is documented somewhere here on UTube. The 7 is working for u all the time. Like all, it has holes, but seems to be effective if u like to grind a bit.
I wanna go head to head against u with my strategy
nice, im currently just going thru my list of club members though
Ok bro just putting it out there.thanks
bro i can bet the casino get at me
True. This is mathematically the best known way to play craps. But DO NOT think that that means it's a winning method. It is not. It should be labeled "Mathematical Best way to LOSE playing craps". Odds are still against the player, but by very very slightly less.
If you want to win with edge in the casino, poker is it. Want to have most fun, and get lucky and win, craps is it :)
OK, why don't we add a bit of spice to this, we know that the 7 comes up approx every 5th roll, play the don't pass and 6 and 8 for 5 rolls, then after 5 rolls swith to don't 4 and 10 , your thoughts?
If only dice rolled according to probability :) . But sometimes they never roll on the 6/8 and then after you make a Lay bet on 4/10, then the 4/10 is rolled and you lose those. It’s gambling, ya just never know
Dice are not alive but in tuned with your energy.
The more you bet, the more you win.
Or lose :)
I'm still gonna say 4-5 00 in a row on roulette is rigged... But I feel u...
POUND the don't
Its only mathematically best if you have the same bankroll as the casino, which hardly any of us do. The idea of risking more to win less is suicidal in a situation where you are greatly outnumbered in chips. You can be the best poker player in the world with the math on your side, but you will not beat a player with unlimited funds who goes all in every hand . He just has to catch you once and you are broke. Same principle casinos use in all table games. The craps crew always try to encourage to lay max odds when one plays the dark side. I currently play a 100-150-150-250 DP progression when I get a table to myself, the most profitable and least volatile system on a $100 hand for me.
So the moral of the story is to bet the minimum on the pass line and then the maximum on the odds?
If you want to bet more money on a number, yes. That would be the best way.
Best way to win $3000 at craps is to start with $5000.
While usually a math guy, I can't play the Don't pass. A .05 advantage is nothing. More fun to play with everyone else then betting against them for .05 %
Fail. Betting odds does not lower the house edge
It does. Line bet is 1.4% odds bet is 0%. Now the total amount of line bet plus odds is the combination of 1.4% and 0% which is lower.
Or $0.07 house edge = $0.07 house edge
wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/1/
@@ColorUp it's a shame you don't understand this
Scott, do a little research or a lot. You will find you are the only one that thinks that way. I’d be happy to look at even one mathmatians work trying to show adding odds does not average the house edge bet down.
crappy shooters...play don't pass
The don't pass line and odds are great bets. If your a Dark side player do not place a bet until that shooter hits 1 point. Then the math favors you. Think about it! Start after 1 st point. How many players hit a number. Cheers!
About 85% of players hit zero or one point. Everyone hits the 7. thanks
Not sure about percent of players that do not roll a point, but the 7 is the most common number rolled.
Info is from Wizard of Odds
Thanks for your channel
Click bait titles all the time geez. Imma watch ur video either way. But why the click bait titles. Should be "best besr" not "best way to play"
I’m a part time TH-camr, it demands I get clicks and views to help provide for my family. Sadly that’s the nature of how TH-cam works...
I don’t know who this is trying to teach. This isn’t that good of a video for the description. You’re showing basically 50-50 math. .05% which is basically nothing grand scheme. I’m no pro but I’m not a fuckin idiot either. I know 100 people that plays the pass. 3 that play the dont. Your video is totally misleading. Numbers change when you’re betting properly. So the sum of this video is the pass and don’t pass are a 50-50 shot but the dont pass pays severely less. The description for your click makes it seem to someone new to the game like the dont is a good bet and at the end of the day it’s not. You win on the pass line and you literally pay them to make a dont pass bet. So if you lose the dont you might as well had lost twice.
I don’t think you understand odds and payouts. they are nearly identical bets, just bet the side you prefer, but in the end the dice have to roll in your favor to win.
Sorry, but you are wrong. Yes, the Don't Pass has the lowest house advantage. But think about playing the odds. If you make a Pass bet, once a point is established, it is great to play the odds to the maximum to reduce the house's advantage. That is the common description of the Pass line odds bet. However, on the Don't Pass line, once you have established a point, YOU have the advantage - but playing odds REDUCES your advantage (it doesn't take it away, but it reduces it) because, when you lose, you pay more than you would have won. You can't say that playing the odds on a Pass bet reduces the house advantage without also saying playing the odds on the Don't Pass reduces your advantage. The house advantage on the Don't Pass is the come-out roll, but you can't play the odds until after the come-out roll.
Do a little more study. Don’t odds are paid at the true odds of rolling the number just the same as pass odds. Both have a zero edge. The more money you play at 0% edge, the lower the overall house edge on your bet gets. It does not “reduce you advantage” as you say. You are paid at true odds, it just so happens you are the favorite to win so you have to bet more to win back less.
@@ColorUp Your own words prove my point. You said, "The more money you play at 0% edge, the lower the overall edge on your bet gets." Except, once a point is established, YOU have the edge, not the house, so the more money you play at 0% edge, the lower the overall edge YOU have. I don't know the exact odds in your favor once the point is established, but adding a bunch of 0% money lowers that. The house edge is in the come-out, and you can't bet odds on the come-out, only on the point that is established.
@Jim Tuell the odds are 1:2 - 2:3 - and 5:6 and that is what you get paid in true odds on the don't. You are confusing probability to win with house edge. The casino always has an edge over the player, 1.4% as soon as the don't pass bet is placed, even when the probability is in the players favor after the come out roll, the house edge is already calculated and accounts for the player having the advantage once a point is set. The player at no point ever has a % edge. The casino edge is 1.4%, now you can dilute that edge the casino has by adding more money to the bet at 0% You are welcome to disagree, but if you read any book on the subject they will tell you the same.
@@ColorUp I've created an Excel spreadsheet that proves my point. If you would like to see it, go to my Facebook page (I thought I was the only Jim Tuell on Facebook, but I'm the one who is retired in South Carolina) and send me a private message for how to send it to you.
Sorry, but you are wrong & Color Up is correct. You are confusing the propability to win with house edge. Your definition of "advantage" seems fundamentally different than ours. Using the odds bets with the DP does not "reduce your advantage" at all. What it does actually is lower the house edge even further, which is logically & mathematically advantageous to you. I play 3x odds with my DP, to reduce the house edge from 1.4% to 0.4%. Yes, it felt strange & uncomfortable at first for me to have to risk more to win less, but that is because mathematically we're heavily favored to win once the point is established. It's just the risk you take with the DP odds bet. However, that doesn't lower your overall advantage, since you actually have the odds overwhelmingly in your favor with the 7 working for you on the DP, while simultaneously lowering the house edge against you with laying the odds. I have used my own DP with odds strategy with pretty good results. Of course, no strategy is invincible or works perfectly all the time, but having the 7 working for me is pretty sweet. Combined with a good negative progression betting series (not using the classic Martingale which I dislike), a good stop loss & profit goal, I have been able to win the majority of my games & ultimately make a decent profit after calculating the losses & wins. There's no actual calculable mathematical disadvantage to using the odds bet with the DP. If the probabilities are already in your favor, adding odds to the DP doesn't give the house any real advantage over you. It's really more of a neutral risk/reward preference for you personally, if you feel you want to risk more to win more. That's not objectively a disadvantage to you, more of a personal choice. Even when you lose more than you would have won on an odds bet (which happens less frequently in my experiences), you can still come out ahead the majority of the time if you have the patience to allow the 7 to work for you, since it's highly favored to beat the point numbers. Most of the tables are choppy, which doesn't really hurt my strategy, since I have the patience to play more rolls and wait for the cold streaks to erase losses & build profit. Really cold tables happen quite often, which of course are awesome for me. And when I do get the periodic hot tables, I use the stop loss to cut my losses & protect the bankroll. But anyway, I digress. My point is that from having played hundreds of games with my DP/odds bet strategy, there was no disadvantage for me at all in using the odds bets with the DP. Quite the opposite actually. But to each his own.
So your basically betting with the house