We made it to the 21st century. Soon we'll be comparing the alternate timeline to current events. It's interesting to see how the nostalgia effect lessens in each one of these that I do. We're getting into things I remember living through. Let me know what your favorite changes have been and how you see things playing out in the alternate history.
The swan lake being played on TV brought back memories of when my father told me how it went down. Interesting how many parallels they drew to real life
Given that we are in 2003, I wonder if a Columbia parallel will happen. I wonder if Ed smoking pot making the decriminalization/legalization of it come faster. Since the internet isn’t being used commercially, I wonder what the lack of social media indicates. Given that we see space has an effect on culture, I wonder if all of these shows have a “deep space Homer” episode where the wacky shenanigans lead to the main character going into space or to the moon. Now that it’s literally plausible. I wonder if we’ll get lunar Olympics at some point. With DOMA being completely replaced with the inclusion act, like gay rights would be unrecognizable. It was a touchy subject that influenced the 04 election. Honestly I wonder if enough time and resource changes means there’s no Great Recession. There were so many factors leading up to it, I do wonder if it could even happen.
"It's interesting to see how the nostalgia effect lessens in each one of these that I do" exactly haha... wow, you're so good at analyzing things haha!
@@avatarmikephantom153Well, there are two things that should be considered. One, one of the events that led to Great Recession, the Black Monday, didn't happen. Two, oversupply of lithium will cause problems.
Y2K was not a big deal in our timeline because people worked for 2 years to avert the problem. They did a great job, and now it seems like it was no big deal.
I was about to post the same thing. My guess is the narrator did not live through The late 1990s. The coding issue was a major issue and a lot of work was done to reprogram Software and also to update software so we did not have the issues. Early programmers who had retired years before were brought back in to work in order to fix old code. A lot of money was spent to avert the issues and a lot of computers were updated. Sadly, a lot of programmers lost their jobs after the turn of the century because that project was no longer necessary. Businesses had spent money on new computers. New software and in the aftermath had no need to continue spending that kind of money. In a male dominated field, Suddenly young men who had invested their education in that field found themselves without jobs, or stuck with very low paying jobs compared to what they had formerly earned. More women had entered into the field of accounting while young men had entered into computer sciences.
I just want to add that Y2K was a real problem, but we put effort into fixing it. The lesson is not "it was nothing, and we over reacted" its "it was challenge, and we treated it appropriately " . Any parells between that and any current events?
While y2k and Covid have similarities, there is major differences like many solutions turned out to be pr measures (social distancing and masks). and others were shortsighted plans which did more harm than good( lockdowns which did massive economic damage and harm to the mental health of many, along with how much they worked is still debated). Also many similarities are the public overreacting early on, and over hype of how bad it could be.
@@jakeryan152 I think people take for granted how quickly the vaccines were made during the COVID pandemic in the same way people take for granted the effort that was put into solving Y2K. That's what the analogy is.
You can see how the lack of (real) competition makes a system non-optimized, and reaching a better state for it slow, with space exploration. In the TV series "For All Mankind", the competition in the space industry is real, and this has led the system to improve very quickly, continuously reaching new goals (The Moon, then a base on it, then Mars, and a base on this, and now the Asteroid).
The competition stopped in Season 1 basically. All subsequent competitions were forced and unrealistic. Soviets first on the Moon. US got first permanent base on the Moon. Season 2 saw no competition between the parties nor a real reason for exponential growth of the space sector - it just happened. How? Don't ask, it just did. Season 3 was race to Mars in 1990's. Why? Again, no reason. And all of a sudden, a private company joined in... because reasons. In our timeline SpaceX is funded primarily because it develops infrastructure for our Earthly needs (orbital infrastructure, cheaper satellites etc.). In FAM a guy without any space program just decides "We are going to Mars!". Why? How's that good for your company? How did investors of the energy company let you move your focus like that? What does the FOR PROFIT company gain from that except fame? Again, don't ask, we are all explorers, we want to push further. Except, that's not how reality and economy work. You need a damn good reason to fund such projects, and in their world, where the Cold War is still going on, one could argue that military sector is still spending more and more - because none of those new technologies are cheap - they are in fact very expensive compared to our timeline. The problem with the series progressions is that they don't give a realistic reason for all that progress. Base on the Moon? Sure, it was to one-up the Soviets and their Moon landing. Made sense in the Cold War. Expansion of Jamestown, why? What drove the massive (10-fold) expansion of US base on the Moon? We were never given the reason nor did we see it. Race to Mars, why? Getting there eventually, yes (as we are doing now, slowly), but why rush it? What is the drive, the reason behind it? And finally, expanding the Mars base into a full town within a decade?! There is absolutely no reason to do that and spend trillions of $ for a pointless project like that in that timeline. I get the rule of cool - but in no way did the series provide a realistic space sector expansion, grounded in sense and purpose. There is competition for competition's sake and growth/expansion for its own sake.
@@Wustenfuchs109 *Season 3 was race to Mars in 1990's. Why? Again, no reason.* You could argue the same about the race to space, the moon, ... in the past. It didn't have any tangeable benefits at the time (besides the technology itself), but it still happened. It makes sense that if there is still competition between the US and USSR on the spacefront, that after a moon base, mars would follow, unless there was a reason that the space race would stop. As for the private company, we have that now also with SpaceX. The general idea is that the "first to mars" run is meant to show the world (and new potential investors) that you have the knowhow and expertise to act in space/prestige and can even outcompete established superpowers, with the long term goal being a space industry (resources from the moon/mars, asteroids, ...) SpaceX's main goal always has been mars, everything so far is just to build up to that. Yes, they did build out the regular space market first as a base, which was needed because what they needed didn't exist. Initially Musk just wanted to use an existing rocket, but that wasn't possible. *What does the FOR PROFIT company gain from that except fame?* Fame for new investors, new technology, long term new resource acquisition, space tourism longterm, ... The entire point of this run is longterm gain. In the series it is even clearly shown that not getting there first but a few days later was bad. *Expansion of Jamestown, why? What drove the massive (10-fold) expansion of US base on the Moon?* It clearly was the resources on the moon (constantly hinted at) and also likely because the soviets did that same. The moon is also seen as a platform towards mars. *expanding the Mars base into a full town within a decade?! There is absolutely no reason to do that and spend trillions of $ for a pointless project like that in that timeline.* The longterm reason is clearly asteroid mining. Mars is better positioned than earth to do so. It also only happened due to improved technology, probably lowering the costs due to what it would take now.
This show is probably going to either end with the Vulcans making first contact or Mars breaking with Earth and the formation of the first Belters. I would probably guess the latter.
@@bradleystewart1785Impossible. One of the reasons that led to UN taking over as nation state was that over-reliance on fossil fuels led to ecological disaster.
@nikoladedic6623 or, via this show's timeline - although global warming was mitigated, it actually continued naturally rather than the accelerated pace in our timeline.
The role of ESA in this series is criminally underdeveloped. It had many plans up until Ariane basically became the world's most profitable satellite launcher (until spaceX arrived) and ESA just decided to shelve it all in our timeline. In such a setting it feels weird to have the ESA play a third tier, barely existing role while north korea of all nations gets a spotlight.
I assume this is at least partially due to the USSR still existing, Germany not being united, the EU not existing and therefore a much smaller economic zone that is also less integrated with each other.
@@mypdf No need to find complicated excuses to that. In the end who were the "baddest guys" in the mind of the american public up until recently? the USSR and north korea. So they get their fair share of spotlight as the big bad guy. I wouldnt be surprised if future seasons would reserve a special place to Iran so the "good guys" can win again.
Fun fact. The company in the shorts that designed the successor to Concorde is a real company. Boom Supersonic. However their plane is still on the drawing board.
Thanks for the explanation of that montage. I was very confused with parts of it. But man that timeline is 25-30 ahead technologically and socially than ours.
Well, that's actually very accurate. From the 60's to 80's huge bits of tech evolved around the space run and tech developed to get there. It's very plausible that a push to research the Moon and Mars would push technology even beyond.
I absolutely love how, despite all the changes in the timeline, so many things still happen, albeit through different situations and events. It seems like the show is largely about how no matter what happens humans always go through the same cycles, or something along those lines.
…capitalism, colonialism and the idea of conquest go through the same cycles. The world does not. Be careful to make the distinction before you convince yourself that human nature is to destroy themselves and each other.
Literally one of the best series ever made. I've need felt so emotionally investing in a show in years. You can CLEARLY see the amount of money they have put in this show. I've never seen a single bad cgi moment and the story is great. This is one of those shows we will look back on and talk about for years to come.
17:17 Just as an addition, the ESA map for 1997 is near identical to the one in our timeline, save for the addition of Portugal, which hadn't joined until 2000, likely due to a far smaller space industry in our timeline, and Luxemborg, which may or may not be on the map
At least Apple TV seems to love the show. In previous seasons it was renewed either even before a current season had began or in the first few episodes so at least we're eating well.
Right, I looked at this this way in the alt timeline... it's very clear that humanity is so hyper focused on "muh space" they don't consider safety into anything they do. Nasa's motto might as well be "Humans are expendable, space superiority is not". I mean, look at how many people die just from random cables flying everywhere, 52iq jugheads are given the power to light anyone on fire from their o2 tank but no conflict de-escalation skills, people falling out into space cause they're not tied down or getting crushed because they ARE tied down with no quick way to release. Our hurt ego about the moon race made us devalue life over progress. Which is scary
I worked on a satellite that had a ten-year fix applied to it for Y2K, thinking the satellite wouldn't last that long. It did. January 3rd, 2011 was an interesting day, and it took us several days to get things working again. Imagining similar things happening around the world in 2000 is a little creepy.
This is exactly the video I was waiting for prior to watching Season-4. Thanks for the awesomeness as always Pete. I can't watch any episodes until AFTER you release your respective "FAMK S4 Episode-#" explained videos
It's a bit weird that we get zero indication of what happened to Larry Wilson after Ellen's coming out. No matter how much popular support and political success came from it, the fact remains that he's now been exposed for perjury to Congress, which feels like a very unfair place to leave his story.
@@captain_britain We already got word that Ellen wasn't going to be in much of this season, whether because of real life issues with Jodi Balfour or just that they consider her story finished after her appearance in the opening montage.
@@Rmlohner Ah, didn't know that. Well, this show doesn't have a perfect track record of tying up character arcs, but I do hope the Ellen & Larry story will get a bit more love.
It sucks because Larry was definitely a pragmatic guy trying to do his part for both his lifestyle and the space race. And now it’s as if being First Gentleman meant nothing and his last appearance was being a coward. If it wasn’t for him, Ellen never would have been president. Wilson is his name, not hers.
27:08 Y2K was not an "overreaction" in "our timeline". The reason why "nothing much happened" is because the very real engineering problems were solved in time.
Bro, Y2K was absolutely a real big deal, the lesson is definitely not how we overreact over fake things. No, it's a lesson in what we can do when as a world we tackle an issue. Thousands of people around the globe worked very hard to fix the Y2K problem and did a fantastic job
I think ceasing actions that caused the ozone hole layer, and having it actually heal up, should also be on that list. The media create really gross levels of incorrect knowledge over long periods of time when they overhype one side of an issue and then never do any appreciable followup to inform people.
In reality, space mining will be mainly automated. People in space is and will always be overly expensive due to the habitability and life support requirements.
Not really. It is now, and will be for some time, but always. Humans are much more efficient than robots and more importantly - robots are not flexible. They are utterly incapable of adjusting to a changing situation which is basically a standard in space. Maintenance, control etc. you need humans on site. You might not need them in suits all the time, but them being in the base on site, controlling the whole process, yes. And at a certain point in technological development, a price of a human would be lower than a price of a robot that can do what a human can. We are cheap and easy to produce, relatively speaking. Robots require quite a lot of rare elements, high tech and still need humans next to them. Robots will definitely have a role to play in mining in space, but for any job that requires constant adjustments, improvisations, maintenance etc. you will never be able to replace humans - until you develop a true AI and perfect androids. Robots are great for jobs with patterns. Mining in space is not one of those jobs.
@@Wustenfuchs109 Nope! Humans are too fragile, to expensive too maintain! In the Deep Submergence community, ROV's have replaced manned submersibles in 99% of all operations. You will not be booking a mining job onthe Moon or Mars
@@Wustenfuchs109 Nope! ROV's have replaced manned submersibles in 99% of all underwater work. The Navy just replaced it Newt suit with an ROV. The X-22 Dyna Soar and the MOL manned spy satellite was cancelled due to the success of unmanned systems. Mining colonies onthe Moon and Mars will be money pits. Not only are people expensive to maintain, but the social problems of crime, graft, and corruption would make such colonies a disaster
@@Wustenfuchs109 The ISS is a money pit. Its crew spends 90% of its effort to simply stay alive leaving only 10% of resources towards useful scientific work. Space conies will remain sci fi fantasy. And when they finally do become a reality, they will become dystopias as depicted in "The Martian Chronicles, Blade Runner, Total Recall" And other such sci fi novels
My guess is that JFK Jr is still a NY senator, and serves in the 2000s from the state. I’m willing to bet he’s going to become president in 2008 or 2012. Which is a perfect reason to keep him alive. Btw, I’m writing a novel on a fictional JFK Jr presidency, so seeing this made me so happy that I wasn’t the only one to keep him alive in a better future.
@@phillipleavenworth depends on if gore wins reelection. We’re overdue on a one term presidency. Also, I feel like we shouldn’t discount Romney being a political player. He ran against Ted Kennedy in 1994. Without Ted in that senate seat, and if Romney still sought it, he too could be a major political contender. I think he would be more likely to snag the presidency.
@@avatarmikephantom153 My assumption is that they are successful with getting the mining operation going on the Moon, Mars, and the Asteroids. But the final nail in the coffin for Big Oil hits in the late 2000s as a sort of parallel with the Great Recession. This just leads to a world that becomes heavily dependent on space mining to keep the economy stable. This probably dampens the possibility of another Democrat for a bit. It's entirely likely this leads to a Romney presidency. We are definitely overdue for a one-term presidency. Which could be Romney's or McCain's, if they are unsuccessful with the aftermath of that. I see a JFK Jr presidency being the next Democratic possibility, in any case.
@@myitbos1335 Probably. But there's a story on Alternate History Wiki that's similar to For All Mankind called The Space Race Didn't End where Obama becomes Governor of a Moon colony. Anything can happen.
Y2K was quite a deal when I was a kid and lots of effort on Y2K compliance was made. During that time, “apocalypse” shows on the end of the world was quite the range. There were cases of issues related to Y2K but was mitigated due to the preparation. Some say it was because there wasn’t that much dependence on tech yet compared to now.
My theory is that Al Qaeda wouldn't have attacked the U.S. in the show's timeline since their attention would have been diverted by the political upheavals in Saudi Arabia.
@@nikoladedic6623And also less dependence on middle eastern oil. When I watch the show, the more I get the feeling of less foreign intervention by both the US and Soviet Union.
I must admit when watching this episode then revealing NK being the first really surprised me as from the trailer it looked like a cosmonaut suite (USSR, China and NK) and technically that was true but it was not the Soviets themselves lol
I've got a good idea as to where things go from there(the end of this video). Cashmere cavity experiments produce a real life "Warp bubble" the size of a hydrogen atom that fit the exact description of Alcubierre Warp Drive in November of 2002 and the experiment is repeated 4 times in the year 2003. And then controlled experiments with atom sized Warp bubbles get started in the year 2006. And then in August of the year 2012, it is discovered that is has an accumulating effect when a tiny amount of antimatter is added to it. Fast forward to the year 2024 and professor Alcubierre wins the nobel prize in physics for His original 1994 Warp Drive equation and the first experimental Warp Drive spacecraft the size of a pinhead is launched and tracked by remote control.
If we're going Star Trek with the serial numbers filed off, then this timeline sounds reasonable: In 2024, a manned mission to Europa is performed (this happens in this year in star trek discovery, and it makes even more sense here than in star trek) In the 30s, the warp drive tests are expanded and tests are done with tiny probes, too small for aliens to detect In the late 30s/early 40s, there are plans to expand it again and do manned test flights in the 40s/50s, WW3, disrupts their plans In the late 50s/early 60s, survivors from the original team come together to re-start their project By 2070 they manage to scrounge up enough resources to do 1 test flight, with a warp drive attached to a small manned spacecraft (I wouldn't be surprised if the manned capsule is a repurposed manned military orbital drop ship or something) They are secretly helped by humans from the future (say, the crew of the "Galactic Federation" starship SS Endeavour or something), they don't know this They do their flight, the test pilot becomes the first FTL human This attracts attention from the alien Hephaestians, who come down and visit the humans. They help fix the devastation, but the price is that the planet becomes a Hephaestian vassal state for almost a century.
watching this series made me ask "where did we go wrong?" "why did we abandon this brave new worlds?" it feels like our timeline is the fake one and theirs is the real... how?
There is one major detail from 90s that was barely touched by the news clips but still should have been addressed. Without any changes, even with the more stable Warsaw Pact Yugoslavia should have collapsed due to nationalism and economic problems. The fact that it is mentioned to be part of that Martian Communist Alliance implies something changed.
We have yet to produce fusion, that produces more energy then consumed, even recently. That laser fusion produced 3w for ever 2w of laser energy put in. But to produced 2w of laser energy we had to put in 100w of electricity power. That means that we produced 3w of energy for 100w put in.
and we most likely never will produce workable fusion reactors due to scale. fusion only reliably works with bodies lies stars due to the sheer mass of said stars. we will never crack fusion power
The French paper names are kind of funny : -« Le Report de Paris » literally translates as “Paris is postponed”. -“Le Registre journalier” sounds like an accountant notebook.
Yeah we still havent created a fusion reaction where we got more power out than went in. The 2022 laser ignition was horribly overstated, because while the amount of power from the fusion reaction exceeded the power of the laser. The amount of power the laser required was far in excess of that fusion reaction. Those laser induced fusion reactions are how we test thermonuclear weapons ie the fusion part of hydrogen bombs. And that laser was built back in the 90s so its incredibly inefficient
The show is great and I love it however it seems that it’s now facing the same problem that every tv show has when they have more season that is unfocused storylines and too many side characters. The alternate history theme of the show is what makes it appealing of where the Soviet Union beats the US to go to the moon in the 60s and avoiding its inevitable collapse in the early 90s. However the show just time jump way too quickly I would love to see the show explore this aspect instead of focusing on more dramas.
So a thing I've been thinking about is, its mentioned that there's no internet in this timeline. But, before the internet, there were still dial-in BBS systems that you connected to peer-to-peer with a modem. The ubiquitous 300 baud RS232 modems used for this OTL were invented in the early 1960s prior to the POD. BBSes *definitely* exist in the FAM timeline. But, with no internet to usurp it in the 90s, BBS culture would persist. With a bigger BBS culture, the tech would improve (video phone bandwidth requirements would allow dial-up modems to get way faster than OTL), and this probably would develop into an internet of sorts.
I really love the Expanse but i Hope not. The Expanse is OUR Possible Future meanwhile For All Mankind is an Alternate History of what could have been.
I hope not, people on earth live In a dystopian hellscape. Those on basic having to drink sewer water and the UN runs the planet? No fucking thank you. This show seems like humanity might have reasons to be hopeful
@@limabravo6065 Well, one day, you can expect something like that probably. It is a natural process to have larger and larger ruling entities. Planetary government? Not a question of will it happen, but when. Especially when you start dealing with a reality in which substantial number of humans do not live on the mother planet anymore. Also, basic income is the least you could have - and not everyone is on it, obviously. In our world, what is the smallest income you can have? You know the answer, and you know that there are millions in USA alone who belong to that group, homeless, penniless. The difference for Earth in The Expanse is that UN is a ruling governmental body (obviously not with current jurisdictions but actual power to make decisions and put them to practice unlike now where it is just a debate club) and that the world is left ravaged because we didn't care about ecology (as we currently don't). There isn't really a big difference and it is something we are definitely going for.
@@Wustenfuchs109 well when my president is an open pedophile and the UN tries to have the age of consent dropped after its "peacekeepers" are accused of rape in Africa only for the UN to side step and say those weren't in fact UN peacekeepers so not our fault instead of maybe expressing outrage and pledging to provide some justice for the victims. With leaders and institutions like these im thinking clean slate if anything before allowing the UN to have any actual control
As someone who worked on Y2K - we simulated what would happen to our large UK organisation if we did nothing. The results were not good. I know some Italian banks had major issues for months in 2000.
I'm glad that Y2K didn't "turn out ot be a real problem" in the real timeline - because I would rather it not. Thank you to all the engineers / coders who put in the work without fanfare so that Y2K turned out to not be a real problem.
This show missed out on a HUGE opportunity to add in a challenger like explosion but in their reality, as a publicity stunt, one of the crew were dressed up as big bird from seaseme street. Resulting in an entire generation of kids watching their favorite television muppet explode in the atmosphere live in front of them. Causing ripples in how futurte generations precieved space travel. Now that might sound sick, crazy and random but here is the crazy part. That's literally what almost went down. Big bird was legit planned to be on the challenger but idea was scrapped because it'd be too hard to do a foam bird head in a space helmet. Look it up, no joke.
Not really in this alt timeline North Korea abandons its nuclear program in favor of a space program so it’s not heavily sanctioned and is able to trade North Korea has $10 trillion of untapped mineral reserves of iron, gold, zinc, and copper etc and plus the eastern block is still around so it can trade all that precious metals to the soviets which can cause North Korea to have a economic boom
Nicccce transits to mars could become like ocean liners. Like, takes a couple weeks per voyage, each vessel built will be bespoke and there'll be rapid improvements and optimisations in designs it'll be like the late 19th century all over again
Great Video.... but I would say the only reason Y2K wasn't a big deal in our timeline was because of a lot of work done by programmers to avoid the issue
Nutshell explained on the 2000 Florida voting issue. "Hanging chads" on voting cards. Back before digital voting. You would essentially "punch out" the chad of which president you wanted to select. One of the manufacturers of the voting cards, had an issue on some florida batches where it was very easy to jostle out all the chads. As a result, during the manual recounts (multiple), voting cards where getting so jostled around that it was being left up to the discretion of the counter in what the voters "intended" vote was. I cant remember the exact numbers, but every recount resulted in different numbers then the one before. To such a degree that shannigaians were likely to be afoot. Going from 45k behind to 25k behind, to 15k behind, to 5k behind. . . Raises the question of how the previous re-counts were so far off. Accepted assumption, that as voting cards were counted and recounted and recounted, more and more chads were being jostled out of position and being left up to the counters interpretation.
Yes because a series of events that both directly and indirectly caused 9/11 never happen. The main divergence is due to the space race continuing, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan never occurs. Later President Gary Hart declines to intervene during Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the Clinton administration never happens as Ellen Wilson wins the 1992 Presendential election. This all results in far less American involvement in the Middle East and reduces antagonism to the US
22:55 even that’s dubious. Think about how much energy it took to power the whole machine that created that reaction. All together, it took far more energy, no? I’m no scientist lol so anyone with an understanding that can explain to a layman why I’m wrong would be well received lol
Honestly my enjoyment for the show has lessened the further it got in the timeline. It feels like it has less focus on the historical aspects and more on the drama aspects. I feel like if they had not skipped 10 years between seasons, I would still be hooked
I just read they are making Season 5 and they are making a spinoff called Star City, which shows the alternate timeline before the Russians land on the moon. I'm all in!
There aren't many minerals in Happy Valley that you couldn't find more cheaply in Sudbury, Ontario. Canada's North is also slightly more hospitable than Mars if they need the living space
Don't appear to have happened. Which makes sense for a couple reasons. First, with a still stable USSR continuing to expand its influence, US foreign policy in the region looks a lot different than it did in our timeline as the USSR's sphere of influence frayed and eventually imploded. Second, the oil industry is gutted. The biggest source of wealth and influence in the region is gone (hence the Saudi royal family being removed), as is a great deal of foreign interest and involvement. Overall, I would expect the Middle East of FAM to look more like our timeline did in the 60's and 70's - not necessarily good, or less volatile than our timeline, but with fewer rogue non-state actors - and to play a relatively small role in international politics.
the soviets did not topple the afghani government, which means no war, no mujahideen, no taliban and no al-queda. the global move away from oil also means the middle east is no longer prosperous and of top interest to the u.s or the soviet union.
Jesus, what a fucking trainwreck their Mars missions were. I understand that drama makes a good show but so much dumb shit happens that it begins to feel fake.
I know alternate history is supposed to be fiction, but it is still based on reasonable assumptions on how history would have unfolded. Much of alternative 1969-2002 is highly unrealistic based on reality. Some obvious flaws: 1969: contrary to winding down the Vietnam war, Nixon widened the war, which made it virtually impossible to end before 1973, its real ending (on the U.S. side at least.) America's defeat added to the cultural revolution and financial/industrial decline wouldn't have changed what actually happened. The Space Race: FAM overestimates the appeal of space after the Moon landing, no matter who did it first. By the last landing in 1972, space was already a big yawn, largely because there was nothing there but rocks. 1972: Watergate would not have knocked off Nixon in 1972, least of all by Ted Kennedy. It took 2 years of dogged investigation by journalists and prosecutors to do that. (Even without Chappaquiddick, Ted at the time was a human train wreck about to happen. If anything, the incident sobered him up and made him a better senator.) If security guard Frank Wills hadn't discovered the tape on the door at DNC hq, Nixon would have been in office till 1977 and possibly succeeded by John Connally, his favorite. Completely ignored is the rise of the Moral Majority in the late 70s, which lurched the GOP far right, where it has only increased ever since. FAM's GOP looks more left-centrist Democratic than Republican. These four events alone completely wipe out FAM's rather ridiculous scenario.
still waiting on What happened to Danny Stephens... but in the meantime I'm just giddy... I love the new season... every episode I'm just invested. Can't wait for more science, more advancements, but to be frank I'm hooked on the drama as well.
Whenever referencing Timothy McVey never use soft language like he was "anti-government". He was a far right neo-fascist and white supremacist. Just my 2 cents on that.
I love for all mankind it make me so happy Space travel colony it happen 2002-2003. What happening in for all mankind 2023 look like in the future. Our timeline never happen we live in a world of fake history.
I suspect Apple didn't want China being depicted in any way negatively. It was easy to throw in Canada in the mix so it just single out China. It like when RedDawn (2012) was made the movie studio had China as the invaders, but changed it last minute to North Korea as not not piss off their investors.
Ellen was far from the first series with an openly gay character... "Love, Sidney" (1981) beat it by a decade and a half. Also, "Brothers" (1985), wherein one of the three leads was not only out, but ended up in a happily ever after relationship.
We got it syndicated on a local broadcast station here in Toronto (CITY-TV)... Cliff in Brothers was one third of the leads. Even presuming by lead you meant title character...well again, Sidney Shorr by 15 years. Ellen may be more notable for being an openly gay actor playing an openly gay character though. Thinking back, lesbians were all the rage on tv that year... Roseanne hyped a back shot of her getting a smooch while Deep Space 9 leaned right into Dax getting thirsty with a lover from a previous life...
@@duckyj7241I'd never heard of Love, Sidney but it doesn't sound like the lead character was out or openly gay. It's splitting hairs and either way, I was just referencing the articles I read about her coming out episode that all touted her as the first openly gay lead character on a network show.
If you count "Three's Company from the late 70s and early 80s John Ritter's character Jack Tripper was pretending to be gay so he could live with two beautiful women.
@@PetePeppers1 Sidney was closeted/discreet within the show, but it was made quite clear to the audience. It's also kind of significant in that it was one of the few non flouncy portrayals of a gay man. Very worth checking out as Tony Randall shines here. It may be hair splitting, but I'll take that over erasure anyday. (Even if the source and cause of said erasure was Ellen and her publicist). Anyway, my goal was to add to the topic's breadth... we good. Loving your analysis of FAM.
Eagle news is very definitely this universes Fox news but I wonder why the divergence in name. Did Rupert Murdoch in this timeline prefer eagles or what?
We made it to the 21st century. Soon we'll be comparing the alternate timeline to current events. It's interesting to see how the nostalgia effect lessens in each one of these that I do. We're getting into things I remember living through. Let me know what your favorite changes have been and how you see things playing out in the alternate history.
The swan lake being played on TV brought back memories of when my father told me how it went down. Interesting how many parallels they drew to real life
Given that we are in 2003, I wonder if a Columbia parallel will happen.
I wonder if Ed smoking pot making the decriminalization/legalization of it come faster.
Since the internet isn’t being used commercially, I wonder what the lack of social media indicates.
Given that we see space has an effect on culture, I wonder if all of these shows have a “deep space Homer” episode where the wacky shenanigans lead to the main character going into space or to the moon. Now that it’s literally plausible.
I wonder if we’ll get lunar Olympics at some point.
With DOMA being completely replaced with the inclusion act, like gay rights would be unrecognizable. It was a touchy subject that influenced the 04 election.
Honestly I wonder if enough time and resource changes means there’s no Great Recession. There were so many factors leading up to it, I do wonder if it could even happen.
"It's interesting to see how the nostalgia effect lessens in each one of these that I do" exactly haha... wow, you're so good at analyzing things haha!
@@avatarmikephantom153Well, there are two things that should be considered. One, one of the events that led to Great Recession, the Black Monday, didn't happen. Two, oversupply of lithium will cause problems.
Actually people did die in a hospital because of medication errors from y2k
Y2K was not a big deal in our timeline because people worked for 2 years to avert the problem. They did a great job, and now it seems like it was no big deal.
I was about to post the same thing. My guess is the narrator did not live through The late 1990s. The coding issue was a major issue and a lot of work was done to reprogram Software and also to update software so we did not have the issues. Early programmers who had retired years before were brought back in to work in order to fix old code. A lot of money was spent to avert the issues and a lot of computers were updated. Sadly, a lot of programmers lost their jobs after the turn of the century because that project was no longer necessary. Businesses had spent money on new computers. New software and in the aftermath had no need to continue spending that kind of money. In a male dominated field, Suddenly young men who had invested their education in that field found themselves without jobs, or stuck with very low paying jobs compared to what they had formerly earned. More women had entered into the field of accounting while young men had entered into computer sciences.
@@hartofnixie7060He seems to be in his 40s so I don't know about that.
@@hartofnixie7060 I was going to post the same thing. Its the paradox of success. People rarely report about successfully adverting disaster.
Yes I was there. We got bit by some apps even years later.
the US government threw so much money at it that there was a down turn in 2000 from all that stimulus
I just want to add that Y2K was a real problem, but we put effort into fixing it.
The lesson is not "it was nothing, and we over reacted" its "it was challenge, and we treated it appropriately " .
Any parells between that and any current events?
Vaccines anybody?
Thank you
Operation Warp Speed
While y2k and Covid have similarities, there is major differences like many solutions turned out to be pr measures (social distancing and masks). and others were shortsighted plans which did more harm than good( lockdowns which did massive economic damage and harm to the mental health of many, along with how much they worked is still debated). Also many similarities are the public overreacting early on, and over hype of how bad it could be.
@@jakeryan152 I think people take for granted how quickly the vaccines were made during the COVID pandemic in the same way people take for granted the effort that was put into solving Y2K. That's what the analogy is.
You can see how the lack of (real) competition makes a system non-optimized, and reaching a better state for it slow, with space exploration. In the TV series "For All Mankind", the competition in the space industry is real, and this has led the system to improve very quickly, continuously reaching new goals (The Moon, then a base on it, then Mars, and a base on this, and now the Asteroid).
The competition stopped in Season 1 basically. All subsequent competitions were forced and unrealistic. Soviets first on the Moon. US got first permanent base on the Moon. Season 2 saw no competition between the parties nor a real reason for exponential growth of the space sector - it just happened. How? Don't ask, it just did.
Season 3 was race to Mars in 1990's. Why? Again, no reason. And all of a sudden, a private company joined in... because reasons. In our timeline SpaceX is funded primarily because it develops infrastructure for our Earthly needs (orbital infrastructure, cheaper satellites etc.). In FAM a guy without any space program just decides "We are going to Mars!". Why? How's that good for your company? How did investors of the energy company let you move your focus like that? What does the FOR PROFIT company gain from that except fame?
Again, don't ask, we are all explorers, we want to push further. Except, that's not how reality and economy work. You need a damn good reason to fund such projects, and in their world, where the Cold War is still going on, one could argue that military sector is still spending more and more - because none of those new technologies are cheap - they are in fact very expensive compared to our timeline.
The problem with the series progressions is that they don't give a realistic reason for all that progress.
Base on the Moon? Sure, it was to one-up the Soviets and their Moon landing. Made sense in the Cold War.
Expansion of Jamestown, why? What drove the massive (10-fold) expansion of US base on the Moon? We were never given the reason nor did we see it.
Race to Mars, why? Getting there eventually, yes (as we are doing now, slowly), but why rush it? What is the drive, the reason behind it?
And finally, expanding the Mars base into a full town within a decade?! There is absolutely no reason to do that and spend trillions of $ for a pointless project like that in that timeline.
I get the rule of cool - but in no way did the series provide a realistic space sector expansion, grounded in sense and purpose. There is competition for competition's sake and growth/expansion for its own sake.
@@Wustenfuchs109
*Season 3 was race to Mars in 1990's. Why? Again, no reason.*
You could argue the same about the race to space, the moon, ... in the past. It didn't have any tangeable benefits at the time (besides the technology itself), but it still happened. It makes sense that if there is still competition between the US and USSR on the spacefront, that after a moon base, mars would follow, unless there was a reason that the space race would stop.
As for the private company, we have that now also with SpaceX. The general idea is that the "first to mars" run is meant to show the world (and new potential investors) that you have the knowhow and expertise to act in space/prestige and can even outcompete established superpowers, with the long term goal being a space industry (resources from the moon/mars, asteroids, ...)
SpaceX's main goal always has been mars, everything so far is just to build up to that. Yes, they did build out the regular space market first as a base, which was needed because what they needed didn't exist. Initially Musk just wanted to use an existing rocket, but that wasn't possible.
*What does the FOR PROFIT company gain from that except fame?*
Fame for new investors, new technology, long term new resource acquisition, space tourism longterm, ... The entire point of this run is longterm gain. In the series it is even clearly shown that not getting there first but a few days later was bad.
*Expansion of Jamestown, why? What drove the massive (10-fold) expansion of US base on the Moon?*
It clearly was the resources on the moon (constantly hinted at) and also likely because the soviets did that same. The moon is also seen as a platform towards mars.
*expanding the Mars base into a full town within a decade?! There is absolutely no reason to do that and spend trillions of $ for a pointless project like that in that timeline.*
The longterm reason is clearly asteroid mining. Mars is better positioned than earth to do so. It also only happened due to improved technology, probably lowering the costs due to what it would take now.
@@Wustenfuchs109You missed the part about resource mining on the moon - especially helium 3 for fusion.
It essentially swapped the mobile cell phone/computer industry for the space industry.
This show is probably going to either end with the Vulcans making first contact or Mars breaking with Earth and the formation of the first Belters. I would probably guess the latter.
Would be a bit of a surprise if it ends up as a super long form prequel to the Expanse
@@bradleystewart1785Impossible. One of the reasons that led to UN taking over as nation state was that over-reliance on fossil fuels led to ecological disaster.
@@nikoladedic6623 Well, ain't that the dream of globalists? A UN government simply taking over, oppressing everyone and using us as slaves.
@@nikoladedic6623 that would explain the tall walls on the coast in the expanse
@nikoladedic6623 or, via this show's timeline - although global warming was mitigated, it actually continued naturally rather than the accelerated pace in our timeline.
The role of ESA in this series is criminally underdeveloped. It had many plans up until Ariane basically became the world's most profitable satellite launcher (until spaceX arrived) and ESA just decided to shelve it all in our timeline. In such a setting it feels weird to have the ESA play a third tier, barely existing role while north korea of all nations gets a spotlight.
I assume this is at least partially due to the USSR still existing, Germany not being united, the EU not existing and therefore a much smaller economic zone that is also less integrated with each other.
@@mypdf No need to find complicated excuses to that. In the end who were the "baddest guys" in the mind of the american public up until recently? the USSR and north korea. So they get their fair share of spotlight as the big bad guy. I wouldnt be surprised if future seasons would reserve a special place to Iran so the "good guys" can win again.
Fun fact. The company in the shorts that designed the successor to Concorde is a real company. Boom Supersonic. However their plane is still on the drawing board.
Thanks for the explanation of that montage. I was very confused with parts of it. But man that timeline is 25-30 ahead technologically and socially than ours.
Well, that's actually very accurate. From the 60's to 80's huge bits of tech evolved around the space run and tech developed to get there.
It's very plausible that a push to research the Moon and Mars would push technology even beyond.
I absolutely love how, despite all the changes in the timeline, so many things still happen, albeit through different situations and events. It seems like the show is largely about how no matter what happens humans always go through the same cycles, or something along those lines.
…capitalism, colonialism and the idea of conquest go through the same cycles.
The world does not. Be careful to make the distinction before you convince yourself that human nature is to destroy themselves and each other.
Literally one of the best series ever made. I've need felt so emotionally investing in a show in years. You can CLEARLY see the amount of money they have put in this show. I've never seen a single bad cgi moment and the story is great. This is one of those shows we will look back on and talk about for years to come.
17:17 Just as an addition, the ESA map for 1997 is near identical to the one in our timeline, save for the addition of Portugal, which hadn't joined until 2000, likely due to a far smaller space industry in our timeline, and Luxemborg, which may or may not be on the map
I freaking love these videos, Pete! Thanks for introducing me to FAM, I’m so pumped for this season and i always look forward to your recap videos 😁😁
Sad to see so few people watch this show (even when using alternate ways to watch than Apple TV).
It's fabulous and I don't understand why it's not getting more views...
i mean the clips of FAM have millions of views on TH-cam, if they had done this series differently, it would easily be a massive show
Bcz it's on apple tv if it was on Netflix or Amazon it would be more popular
At least Apple TV seems to love the show. In previous seasons it was renewed either even before a current season had began or in the first few episodes so at least we're eating well.
The p bay
Y2K wasn't a big deal IRL BECAUSE of a lot of hard work. Otherwise it would have been an absolute mess.
Right, I looked at this this way
in the alt timeline... it's very clear that humanity is so hyper focused on "muh space" they don't consider safety into anything they do. Nasa's motto might as well be "Humans are expendable, space superiority is not". I mean, look at how many people die just from random cables flying everywhere, 52iq jugheads are given the power to light anyone on fire from their o2 tank but no conflict de-escalation skills, people falling out into space cause they're not tied down or getting crushed because they ARE tied down with no quick way to release.
Our hurt ego about the moon race made us devalue life over progress. Which is scary
Facts
When I saw that ballet playing at the end I was like oh s*** stay inside b****
I worked on a satellite that had a ten-year fix applied to it for Y2K, thinking the satellite wouldn't last that long. It did. January 3rd, 2011 was an interesting day, and it took us several days to get things working again. Imagining similar things happening around the world in 2000 is a little creepy.
This is exactly the video I was waiting for prior to watching Season-4. Thanks for the awesomeness as always Pete. I can't watch any episodes until AFTER you release your respective "FAMK S4 Episode-#" explained videos
I'm personally waiting to see if Firefly gets more than one season in this timeline
It's a bit weird that we get zero indication of what happened to Larry Wilson after Ellen's coming out. No matter how much popular support and political success came from it, the fact remains that he's now been exposed for perjury to Congress, which feels like a very unfair place to leave his story.
We haven't seen Ellen yet either, have we? Give it time; I'm pretty sure we'll get some sort of closure
@@captain_britain We already got word that Ellen wasn't going to be in much of this season, whether because of real life issues with Jodi Balfour or just that they consider her story finished after her appearance in the opening montage.
@@Rmlohner Ah, didn't know that. Well, this show doesn't have a perfect track record of tying up character arcs, but I do hope the Ellen & Larry story will get a bit more love.
It sucks because Larry was definitely a pragmatic guy trying to do his part for both his lifestyle and the space race. And now it’s as if being First Gentleman meant nothing and his last appearance was being a coward. If it wasn’t for him, Ellen never would have been president. Wilson is his name, not hers.
27:08 Y2K was not an "overreaction" in "our timeline". The reason why "nothing much happened" is because the very real engineering problems were solved in time.
Bro, Y2K was absolutely a real big deal, the lesson is definitely not how we overreact over fake things. No, it's a lesson in what we can do when as a world we tackle an issue.
Thousands of people around the globe worked very hard to fix the Y2K problem and did a fantastic job
I think ceasing actions that caused the ozone hole layer, and having it actually heal up, should also be on that list. The media create really gross levels of incorrect knowledge over long periods of time when they overhype one side of an issue and then never do any appreciable followup to inform people.
I need to find time to watching this series. Love alternate timelines especially when it involves space exploration.
In reality, space mining will be mainly automated. People in space is and will always be overly expensive due to the habitability and life support requirements.
Not really. It is now, and will be for some time, but always. Humans are much more efficient than robots and more importantly - robots are not flexible. They are utterly incapable of adjusting to a changing situation which is basically a standard in space. Maintenance, control etc. you need humans on site. You might not need them in suits all the time, but them being in the base on site, controlling the whole process, yes. And at a certain point in technological development, a price of a human would be lower than a price of a robot that can do what a human can. We are cheap and easy to produce, relatively speaking. Robots require quite a lot of rare elements, high tech and still need humans next to them.
Robots will definitely have a role to play in mining in space, but for any job that requires constant adjustments, improvisations, maintenance etc. you will never be able to replace humans - until you develop a true AI and perfect androids.
Robots are great for jobs with patterns. Mining in space is not one of those jobs.
I highly recommend you check out the books “delta-v” and “critical mass” by Daniel Suarez regarding this topic.
@@Wustenfuchs109 Nope! Humans are too fragile, to expensive too maintain! In the Deep Submergence community, ROV's have replaced manned submersibles in 99% of all operations. You will not be booking a mining job onthe Moon or Mars
@@Wustenfuchs109 Nope! ROV's have replaced manned submersibles in 99% of all underwater work. The Navy just replaced it Newt suit with an ROV. The X-22 Dyna Soar and the MOL manned spy satellite was cancelled due to the success of unmanned systems. Mining colonies onthe Moon and Mars will be money pits. Not only are people expensive to maintain, but the social problems of crime, graft, and corruption would make such colonies a disaster
@@Wustenfuchs109 The ISS is a money pit. Its crew spends 90% of its effort to simply stay alive leaving only 10% of resources towards useful scientific work. Space conies will remain sci fi fantasy. And when they finally do become a reality, they will become dystopias as depicted in "The Martian Chronicles, Blade Runner, Total Recall" And other such sci fi novels
My guess is that JFK Jr is still a NY senator, and serves in the 2000s from the state.
I’m willing to bet he’s going to become president in 2008 or 2012. Which is a perfect reason to keep him alive.
Btw, I’m writing a novel on a fictional JFK Jr presidency, so seeing this made me so happy that I wasn’t the only one to keep him alive in a better future.
It's a fascinating possibility. I think McCain will be president in 2008 opening the door for JFK Jr in 2012 and 2016.
@@phillipleavenworth depends on if gore wins reelection. We’re overdue on a one term presidency.
Also, I feel like we shouldn’t discount Romney being a political player. He ran against Ted Kennedy in 1994. Without Ted in that senate seat, and if Romney still sought it, he too could be a major political contender. I think he would be more likely to snag the presidency.
@@avatarmikephantom153 My assumption is that they are successful with getting the mining operation going on the Moon, Mars, and the Asteroids. But the final nail in the coffin for Big Oil hits in the late 2000s as a sort of parallel with the Great Recession. This just leads to a world that becomes heavily dependent on space mining to keep the economy stable. This probably dampens the possibility of another Democrat for a bit. It's entirely likely this leads to a Romney presidency. We are definitely overdue for a one-term presidency. Which could be Romney's or McCain's, if they are unsuccessful with the aftermath of that. I see a JFK Jr presidency being the next Democratic possibility, in any case.
@@phillipleavenworth Come on. You know Obama is still going to show up.
@@myitbos1335 Probably. But there's a story on Alternate History Wiki that's similar to For All Mankind called The Space Race Didn't End where Obama becomes Governor of a Moon colony. Anything can happen.
Thank you for doing these timeline divergence videos. Really helps me understand the show better.
Does anyone else feel sad that videos like this help us complete shows that we may never finish otherwise.
You mean the show won’t finish or that we won’t get there in real life
Y2K was quite a deal when I was a kid and lots of effort on Y2K compliance was made. During that time, “apocalypse” shows on the end of the world was quite the range. There were cases of issues related to Y2K but was mitigated due to the preparation. Some say it was because there wasn’t that much dependence on tech yet compared to now.
Are we not gonna talk about the fact that in this Timeline there was no 9/11?
That was basically covered by Brezhnev not invading Afganistan.
My theory is that Al Qaeda wouldn't have attacked the U.S. in the show's timeline since their attention would have been diverted by the political upheavals in Saudi Arabia.
@@nikoladedic6623And also less dependence on middle eastern oil. When I watch the show, the more I get the feeling of less foreign intervention by both the US and Soviet Union.
@@cashcleaner Yeah, US didn't even help in Kuwait.
No Bush = No 9/11
Thank you for this video, I often find timeline changes confusing, and this video breaks it down neatly.
I must admit when watching this episode then revealing NK being the first really surprised me as from the trailer it looked like a cosmonaut suite (USSR, China and NK) and technically that was true but it was not the Soviets themselves lol
That’s like saying if the uk become the first to mars then it was technically an American win.
i wish I lived in the For All Mankind Universe.
I've got a good idea as to where things go from there(the end of this video). Cashmere cavity experiments produce a real life "Warp bubble" the size of a hydrogen atom that fit the exact description of Alcubierre Warp Drive in November of 2002 and the experiment is repeated 4 times in the year 2003. And then controlled experiments with atom sized Warp bubbles get started in the year 2006. And then in August of the year 2012, it is discovered that is has an accumulating effect when a tiny amount of antimatter is added to it. Fast forward to the year 2024 and professor Alcubierre wins the nobel prize in physics for His original 1994 Warp Drive equation and the first experimental Warp Drive spacecraft the size of a pinhead is launched and tracked by remote control.
If we're going Star Trek with the serial numbers filed off, then this timeline sounds reasonable:
In 2024, a manned mission to Europa is performed (this happens in this year in star trek discovery, and it makes even more sense here than in star trek)
In the 30s, the warp drive tests are expanded and tests are done with tiny probes, too small for aliens to detect
In the late 30s/early 40s, there are plans to expand it again and do manned test flights
in the 40s/50s, WW3, disrupts their plans
In the late 50s/early 60s, survivors from the original team come together to re-start their project
By 2070 they manage to scrounge up enough resources to do 1 test flight, with a warp drive attached to a small manned spacecraft (I wouldn't be surprised if the manned capsule is a repurposed manned military orbital drop ship or something)
They are secretly helped by humans from the future (say, the crew of the "Galactic Federation" starship SS Endeavour or something), they don't know this
They do their flight, the test pilot becomes the first FTL human
This attracts attention from the alien Hephaestians, who come down and visit the humans. They help fix the devastation, but the price is that the planet becomes a Hephaestian vassal state for almost a century.
Moon miners I think it airs on discovery channel 33:03
watching this series made me ask "where did we go wrong?" "why did we abandon this brave new worlds?" it feels like our timeline is the fake one and theirs is the real... how?
real life plot holes. we landed on the moon and it didn't go anywhere else after that
There is one major detail from 90s that was barely touched by the news clips but still should have been addressed. Without any changes, even with the more stable Warsaw Pact Yugoslavia should have collapsed due to nationalism and economic problems. The fact that it is mentioned to be part of that Martian Communist Alliance implies something changed.
re: Y2K - Nothing of note happened because a lot of us worked very hard to make sure nothing happened.
Of all the dumb things in the show, North Korea getting to Mars took me out of it completely.
We have yet to produce fusion, that produces more energy then consumed, even recently. That laser fusion produced 3w for ever 2w of laser energy put in. But to produced 2w of laser energy we had to put in 100w of electricity power. That means that we produced 3w of energy for 100w put in.
and we most likely never will produce workable fusion reactors due to scale. fusion only reliably works with bodies lies stars due to the sheer mass of said stars. we will never crack fusion power
Kubrick "died of a heart attack" yeah, right.
The French paper names are kind of funny :
-« Le Report de Paris » literally translates as “Paris is postponed”.
-“Le Registre journalier” sounds like an accountant notebook.
please, do tell me the accurate translations.
It'd be pretty cool if they end Ed Baldwin's arc by burying him on the moon next to Gordo and the others.
It would but I think he'll die and be buried on mars
Pretty sure Gordo was buried in Arlington, along side his wife. There was a big funeral scene.
Yeah we still havent created a fusion reaction where we got more power out than went in. The 2022 laser ignition was horribly overstated, because while the amount of power from the fusion reaction exceeded the power of the laser. The amount of power the laser required was far in excess of that fusion reaction. Those laser induced fusion reactions are how we test thermonuclear weapons ie the fusion part of hydrogen bombs. And that laser was built back in the 90s so its incredibly inefficient
Was wondering where this was, you mentioned in several videos and thought I had missed it somehow! Watching now love your stuff !
The show is great and I love it however it seems that it’s now facing the same problem that every tv show has when they have more season that is unfocused storylines and too many side characters. The alternate history theme of the show is what makes it appealing of where the Soviet Union beats the US to go to the moon in the 60s and avoiding its inevitable collapse in the early 90s. However the show just time jump way too quickly I would love to see the show explore this aspect instead of focusing on more dramas.
great video. Saved me a ton of time
The ingenuity helicopter has completed more than 60 flights now.
So a thing I've been thinking about is, its mentioned that there's no internet in this timeline. But, before the internet, there were still dial-in BBS systems that you connected to peer-to-peer with a modem. The ubiquitous 300 baud RS232 modems used for this OTL were invented in the early 1960s prior to the POD. BBSes *definitely* exist in the FAM timeline. But, with no internet to usurp it in the 90s, BBS culture would persist.
With a bigger BBS culture, the tech would improve (video phone bandwidth requirements would allow dial-up modems to get way faster than OTL), and this probably would develop into an internet of sorts.
anyone else consider this show the prequel to The Expanse?
I really love the Expanse but i Hope not. The Expanse is OUR Possible Future meanwhile For All Mankind is an Alternate History of what could have been.
I hope not, people on earth live In a dystopian hellscape. Those on basic having to drink sewer water and the UN runs the planet? No fucking thank you. This show seems like humanity might have reasons to be hopeful
@@limabravo6065 Well, one day, you can expect something like that probably. It is a natural process to have larger and larger ruling entities. Planetary government? Not a question of will it happen, but when. Especially when you start dealing with a reality in which substantial number of humans do not live on the mother planet anymore. Also, basic income is the least you could have - and not everyone is on it, obviously. In our world, what is the smallest income you can have? You know the answer, and you know that there are millions in USA alone who belong to that group, homeless, penniless.
The difference for Earth in The Expanse is that UN is a ruling governmental body (obviously not with current jurisdictions but actual power to make decisions and put them to practice unlike now where it is just a debate club) and that the world is left ravaged because we didn't care about ecology (as we currently don't). There isn't really a big difference and it is something we are definitely going for.
@@Wustenfuchs109 well when my president is an open pedophile and the UN tries to have the age of consent dropped after its "peacekeepers" are accused of rape in Africa only for the UN to side step and say those weren't in fact UN peacekeepers so not our fault instead of maybe expressing outrage and pledging to provide some justice for the victims. With leaders and institutions like these im thinking clean slate if anything before allowing the UN to have any actual control
As someone who worked on Y2K - we simulated what would happen to our large UK organisation if we did nothing. The results were not good. I know some Italian banks had major issues for months in 2000.
The newsreals between the earlier seasons aren't there anymore, would love to see them.
I'm glad that Y2K didn't "turn out ot be a real problem" in the real timeline - because I would rather it not. Thank you to all the engineers / coders who put in the work without fanfare so that Y2K turned out to not be a real problem.
This show missed out on a HUGE opportunity to add in a challenger like explosion but in their reality, as a publicity stunt, one of the crew were dressed up as big bird from seaseme street. Resulting in an entire generation of kids watching their favorite television muppet explode in the atmosphere live in front of them. Causing ripples in how futurte generations precieved space travel.
Now that might sound sick, crazy and random but here is the crazy part. That's literally what almost went down. Big bird was legit planned to be on the challenger but idea was scrapped because it'd be too hard to do a foam bird head in a space helmet. Look it up, no joke.
This is now my head canon
Tyson didn’t bite Evander’s ear off, the “disgrace” is the Mao tattoo
North Korea ever making it to Mars is so off base even in an alt timeline.
Not really in this alt timeline North Korea abandons its nuclear program in favor of a space program so it’s not heavily sanctioned and is able to trade North Korea has $10 trillion of untapped mineral reserves of iron, gold, zinc, and copper etc and plus the eastern block is still around so it can trade all that precious metals to the soviets which can cause North Korea to have a economic boom
Nicccce transits to mars could become like ocean liners. Like, takes a couple weeks per voyage, each vessel built will be bespoke and there'll be rapid improvements and optimisations in designs it'll be like the late 19th century all over again
Great Video.... but I would say the only reason Y2K wasn't a big deal in our timeline was because of a lot of work done by programmers to avoid the issue
Nutshell explained on the 2000 Florida voting issue. "Hanging chads" on voting cards. Back before digital voting. You would essentially "punch out" the chad of which president you wanted to select.
One of the manufacturers of the voting cards, had an issue on some florida batches where it was very easy to jostle out all the chads. As a result, during the manual recounts (multiple), voting cards where getting so jostled around that it was being left up to the discretion of the counter in what the voters "intended" vote was.
I cant remember the exact numbers, but every recount resulted in different numbers then the one before. To such a degree that shannigaians were likely to be afoot.
Going from 45k behind to 25k behind, to 15k behind, to 5k behind. . . Raises the question of how the previous re-counts were so far off.
Accepted assumption, that as voting cards were counted and recounted and recounted, more and more chads were being jostled out of position and being left up to the counters interpretation.
8:40 Pathfinder? its Pheonix
9:57 same problem
So Kelly goes from mars to Phoenix so she can deliver her baby. So the baby was born in space of Mars orbit but so Kelly just delivered the baby solo!
i love these updates but i don' t find the show's premise compelling. go full star trek if you can like its so slow progress. love your work.
Because it’s. It a sci fi show it’s a alternate history political drama
Dev Ayesa gonna create Cylons
So the September 11, 2001 attacks never happened in the FAM timeline?
Guess that means the US gets rid of bases in Saudi Arabia with less focus on international oil production
Yes because a series of events that both directly and indirectly caused 9/11 never happen. The main divergence is due to the space race continuing, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan never occurs. Later President Gary Hart declines to intervene during Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the Clinton administration never happens as Ellen Wilson wins the 1992 Presendential election. This all results in far less American involvement in the Middle East and reduces antagonism to the US
30:01 well that's a pronouncication of Riyadh I have never heard before
North Korea is first to reach Mars? LOL. That totally speaks volumes about realism of this show.
Thanks Pete!
22:55 even that’s dubious. Think about how much energy it took to power the whole machine that created that reaction. All together, it took far more energy, no? I’m no scientist lol so anyone with an understanding that can explain to a layman why I’m wrong would be well received lol
Honestly my enjoyment for the show has lessened the further it got in the timeline. It feels like it has less focus on the historical aspects and more on the drama aspects.
I feel like if they had not skipped 10 years between seasons, I would still be hooked
I just read they are making Season 5 and they are making a spinoff called Star City, which shows the alternate timeline before the Russians land on the moon. I'm all in!
everyone is closeted gay on this "space show"
Wait till we get closer to our current year and you find out what has been happening on the moon since Jeff Epstein bought it.
i finally gave up on the series after watching s04e01. can't believe these people are so unprofessional and emotional
Such a cool show!
There aren't many minerals in Happy Valley that you couldn't find more cheaply in Sudbury, Ontario. Canada's North is also slightly more hospitable than Mars if they need the living space
19:00
...Emh, can someone please tell me who is the man at the right side?
Supposedly died from a heart attack 25:14
Hi bob
What about the September 11th attacks? In for mankind time line?
Don't appear to have happened.
Which makes sense for a couple reasons.
First, with a still stable USSR continuing to expand its influence, US foreign policy in the region looks a lot different than it did in our timeline as the USSR's sphere of influence frayed and eventually imploded.
Second, the oil industry is gutted. The biggest source of wealth and influence in the region is gone (hence the Saudi royal family being removed), as is a great deal of foreign interest and involvement.
Overall, I would expect the Middle East of FAM to look more like our timeline did in the 60's and 70's - not necessarily good, or less volatile than our timeline, but with fewer rogue non-state actors - and to play a relatively small role in international politics.
the soviets did not topple the afghani government, which means no war, no mujahideen, no taliban and no al-queda. the global move away from oil also means the middle east is no longer prosperous and of top interest to the u.s or the soviet union.
Danny Stevens is going to come into play somehow.
Jesus, what a fucking trainwreck their Mars missions were. I understand that drama makes a good show but so much dumb shit happens that it begins to feel fake.
I know alternate history is supposed to be fiction, but it is still based on reasonable assumptions on how history would have unfolded. Much of alternative 1969-2002 is highly unrealistic based on reality. Some obvious flaws:
1969: contrary to winding down the Vietnam war, Nixon widened the war, which made it virtually impossible to end before 1973, its real ending (on the U.S. side at least.) America's defeat added to the cultural revolution and financial/industrial decline wouldn't have changed what actually happened.
The Space Race: FAM overestimates the appeal of space after the Moon landing, no matter who did it first. By the last landing in 1972, space was already a big yawn, largely because there was nothing there but rocks.
1972: Watergate would not have knocked off Nixon in 1972, least of all by Ted Kennedy. It took 2 years of dogged investigation by journalists and prosecutors to do that. (Even without Chappaquiddick, Ted at the time was a human train wreck about to happen. If anything, the incident sobered him up and made him a better senator.) If security guard Frank Wills hadn't discovered the tape on the door at DNC hq, Nixon would have been in office till 1977 and possibly succeeded by John Connally, his favorite.
Completely ignored is the rise of the Moral Majority in the late 70s, which lurched the GOP far right, where it has only increased ever since. FAM's GOP looks more left-centrist Democratic than Republican.
These four events alone completely wipe out FAM's rather ridiculous scenario.
ty for these Pete
still waiting on What happened to Danny Stephens... but in the meantime I'm just giddy... I love the new season... every episode I'm just invested. Can't wait for more science, more advancements, but to be frank I'm hooked on the drama as well.
no problem
Whenever referencing Timothy McVey never use soft language like he was "anti-government". He was a far right neo-fascist and white supremacist.
Just my 2 cents on that.
I love for all mankind it make me so happy Space travel colony it happen 2002-2003. What happening in for all mankind 2023 look like in the future. Our timeline never happen we live in a world of fake history.
If only we had more energy towards space exploration rather than nuclear weapons.
My question: does 9/11 happen in this alternate timeline
Yes, but not in the way you think.
Honestly this part of the timeline is what if Elon Musk never made Space X
Thanks for this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When will the aliens invade?
Bro included Ireland when he said uk
AMONG US (I'm so sorry)
I would love to live in this timeline, rather than ours.
China Canada didn’t join because they are actually going to pay a big row in season 5 17:56
I suspect Apple didn't want China being depicted in any way negatively. It was easy to throw in Canada in the mix so it just single out China. It like when RedDawn (2012) was made the movie studio had China as the invaders, but changed it last minute to North Korea as not not piss off their investors.
so my home country is still in the warsaw pact?
that is...unfortunate
well on the bright side it would be having a market economy and free trade, open borders and likely greater autonomy from the soviet union.
It will end with the extinction of humanity when AI exceeds human intelligence.
John, Lennon’s alive ? 32:57
Ellen was far from the first series with an openly gay character... "Love, Sidney" (1981) beat it by a decade and a half.
Also, "Brothers" (1985), wherein one of the three leads was not only out, but ended up in a happily ever after relationship.
She was the first lead character on a network series. From what I read Brothers was passed on by all the networks because of the homosexuality.
We got it syndicated on a local broadcast station here in Toronto (CITY-TV)...
Cliff in Brothers was one third of the leads. Even presuming by lead you meant title character...well again, Sidney Shorr by 15 years.
Ellen may be more notable for being an openly gay actor playing an openly gay character though. Thinking back, lesbians were all the rage on tv that year... Roseanne hyped a back shot of her getting a smooch while Deep Space 9 leaned right into Dax getting thirsty with a lover from a previous life...
@@duckyj7241I'd never heard of Love, Sidney but it doesn't sound like the lead character was out or openly gay. It's splitting hairs and either way, I was just referencing the articles I read about her coming out episode that all touted her as the first openly gay lead character on a network show.
If you count "Three's Company from the late 70s and early 80s John Ritter's character Jack Tripper was pretending to be gay so he could live with two beautiful women.
@@PetePeppers1 Sidney was closeted/discreet within the show, but it was made quite clear to the audience. It's also kind of significant in that it was one of the few non flouncy portrayals of a gay man. Very worth checking out as Tony Randall shines here.
It may be hair splitting, but I'll take that over erasure anyday. (Even if the source and cause of said erasure was Ellen and her publicist).
Anyway, my goal was to add to the topic's breadth... we good. Loving your analysis of FAM.
Don’t hate on us birmingham barons! ❤😂
This seems like great show. what if North Korea is already on Mars and Titan.
3:20 NORTH KOREA launched a mission to Mars in this timeline? Assuming their timeline was the same or similar that's laughably unrealistic 😂
Fuck, if only HK stayed under Britain.
Eagle news is very definitely this universes Fox news but I wonder why the divergence in name. Did Rupert Murdoch in this timeline prefer eagles or what?
You’re thinking too deeply. It doesn’t matter. They can’t use Fox News or CNN due to copyright.
It's 2012 now!!