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You forgot to add the female characters from the war of the north who has female characters also the the hobbit series and the series has plenty of female characters
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"She is actively trying to get herself killed". Exactly. I've always thought that the reason she can stand up to the Witch King is because his primary weapon is fear and Eowyn has basically resigned herself to death already, would welcome it, she has nothing left to be afraid of.
@@micklumsden3956 Heroin is the drug, heroine is a heroic woman. An extremely easy mistake to make and yet also extremely funny to me every time it's made.
Many don't understand that Éowyn doesn't submit or capitulate when she accepts Faramir's love: what he is offering her is a higher calling than death in battle. She comes from a far more primitive society that sees physical strength and violence as the path to achievement, but Gondor's leaders are revered for being learned and wise. Faramir knows that to build, to heal and to nurture the earth is what we fight for, and the reason why he and Sam the Gardener understand each other. In the Fourth Age Éowyn and Faramir, as the Princess and Prince of Ithilien, will heal the wounds that Sauron and the Witch-king inflicted on that land. Definitely an upgrade from anything life in Rohan would have offered her.
EXACTLY. People who think her giving up war once the battle is over makes her weak is exactly the kind of attitude Tolkien stood against. It goes far beyond gender. What you said is exactly what I've been saying for years, and it's good to see I'm far from alone in these views on what makes Eowyn and Faramir's marriage such a great ending to their respective storylines.
It's funny how people think that Éowyn becoming a spouse and doctor is feminine and submissive because it involves not sticking a sword in people's faces. Tolkien himself had been a soldier and returned to England to be with his wife and work as a mild-mannered professor. He wasn't shooting Germans in the face any more. Why is this not submissive and feminine of him to do if you think that of Éowyn? Surely the great bulk of the armed men of Gondor were no longer active in the military once the Mordor threat was neutralised. Only a smaller number of professional men-at-arms in the city guard and the frontier patrols would still have been marching around in armour. Éowyn did just the same as them and the vast majority of WW1 soldiers.
The love story between Eowyn and Faramir is one of my favoriates in the books. They are both people that have suffered greatly in the War of the Ring and the lead up to it, and they find solice and healing with eachother. I think people really miss that point when they're upset about Eowyn being married by the end. Faramir besides being a noble captain and brave warrior is also the only person to ask Eowyn what she wants rather than telling her what her duty is. There is also no pressure on her to accept him, as Faramir loves and respects Eowyn for who she is: "Even if you were the blissful queen of Gondor I would still love you."
The Theoden/Eowyn relationship is one of my favorite dynamics in the movies. They feel very human and real compared to everyone else. "I know your face" always gets me.
Their relationship is massively improved upon in the films. I prefer the books overall, but these two in particular felt much closer and more loving on film.
The impression I always had was as a World War 1 veteran, Tolkien didn’t have a high opinion of people being hyper focused on claiming glory in war. Even if he did use the Rohirrim to play with Pagan ideas of glory in war. My takeaway was always: war sucks no matter your gender. Being a healer is a more fulfilling role
Winning glory was not very important in the 20th century, or even earlier in modern times, but Eowyn, like Achilles, did not live in the 20th century. Their views of war and glory were very different from ours. Achilles, for example, was given the choice to either go home, live a long life, and be forgotten, or to stay and fight and die and be always remembered, to win kleos (κλέος) in other words. He stayed. He got his wish, since we still remember him.
@@michaelsommers2356 I think you are right, however I also think that it would be surprising if Tolkein, whilst understanding the glory of war in a medieval/classical setting perfectly well, wasn't informed by his own experience. If we look at some of the other things he wrote there is an ambiguity towards 'glory' - when he writes about the Battle of Maldon, he focuses on servants searching through the piles of the dead. They may be 'glorious', but they are also corpses.
@@robincowley5823 Of course it's possible to understand a viewpoint without sharing it. I doubt that anyone today shares Achilles' values, but that does not mean that no one understands what they were. At the beginning of the American Civil War lots of men joined up at least in part for glory, but they were very quickly disabused of that notion. It's been decades since I read "The Battle of Maldon", but I don't remember it begin about glory. What I remember is the implied criticism of Byrhtnoth for allowing the Vikings to cross the causeway. The modern view, though, seems to be that that was Byrhtnoth's best option, because if he did not fight them there, they could just sail a few miles down the coast and ravage that area, while if he fought and beat them here, no place would be ravaged. He didn't know in advance, of course, that he would lose the battle and be killed.
@@michaelsommers2356 The Battle of Maldon I was referring to was Tolkein's own work, not the original poem - Tolkein wrote a work in which low class Anglo-Saxons are searching through the dead after the battle.
I think what’s notable with Eowyn accepting the role of healer and servant is that Faramir also has that role. They are equals, as much as they can be in that world. She’s not submitting to him, he is simply showing her another, healthier path. One he himself also desires to walk. Anyway I love them ❤ this was a wonderful and nuanced breakdown of the differences in Eowyn’s characterization. Honestly I can’t choose between them: they’re both wonderful in different ways
And above all, Tolkien has a major theme (fitting his theological views) of being a servant to others being of utmost importance, rather than dominating others as a Lord.
@@LordVader1094 yes! Absolutely. Eowyn isn’t given “the good ending for a woman” she’s given “the good ending for a person,” which is easy to lose sight of with all the baggage around gender, which is why it’s so important that Faramir gets it too. And Sam, best boy and savior of the world, is also a servant. Even Aragorn views his role as healer and servant (esp. see the houses of healing, where he won’t even enter the city officially but still appears as a healer), it just gets buried in his hero archetype a bit
@@Jess_of_the_Shire I don't think that is quite right. I think Eowyn and Faramir can fully be equal. In a way, her relationship to Faramir is a romantic version of her brother's to Aragorn. Eomer is a great warrior and a good and true man. Aragorn is a Numenorean. Faramir, like his father, is more like a slightly less awesome version of Aragorn than he is like someone like Theoden or Eomer. Too much Numenorean in him. Recall, we are told that when they were younger, Denethor was as like to Aragorn as one of near kindred. And that Faramir is much like his father in the "blood of Numenor" thing. What she has done, so to speak, is married the second greatest man in the world. We don't see this play out as we would if we saw more of their life together. For example, she will grow old and die decades before her husband. I do think the scenes between Eowyn and Faramir are the best, and most heartwarming, in the book. And I did not find her transformation to be a stretch. You yourself quoted the key line. Her heart did not really change. She understood it better. And Faramir is perfect for her.
Eowyn was 18 to 21 years old, max 25, in the books. She is young, bitter, and in pain. She lived through her father being killed, her mother's death due to illness, her cousin being killed, her brother running off, and left as a caregiver for her dying and mentally idled/brainwashed uncle and king. Plus, she was at the mercy of Wormtongue and the corrupt and other court officials. She naturally wanted to be a man to have some self-agency/autonomy because she equated those 2 things with being a man.
One very important angle that Tolkien portrays in the book through Eowyn's struggle and her eventual love of Faramir is the importance of humility. Tolkien's emphasis on the virtue and strength of humility is repeated throughout so many of his characters, most especially in Frodo and Sam. However, in Eowyn we see a powerful lesson learned: that pride can lead to hopelessness, yet humility leads to healing. This poignant portrayal is an important lesson for all of our lives. I have always loved how Tolkien managedsto hit me so close to home.
It’s important to remember that Eowyn believes Aragorn to be dead, to have thrown his life away on a mad journey through the paths of the dead, when she seeks death in battle as Dernhelm. This is part of the source of her despair.
Eowyn turning away from violence rings so true. When I’ve spoken to men and women who survived war, the best adjusted of them, often rather quickly, go home to marry and build a family. Eowyn does it, but so does faramir , so does Samwise. It seems like it is a very healing and human thing to do.
I thought Miranda did a good job. But the written scene is just amazing. "You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone if ye be not deathless, for living or dark undead, I will smite you if you touch him." Then she laughs and stabs him in the fucking face!!
I love how Faramir in the books is the epitome of humility and that was just the remedy Eowyn needed to overcome her natural tendency of wanting glory and praise in an unhealthy sense.
"...Christian, male, Oxford professor, from the early 1900s..." who also: fought in the trenches of WWI, and in the middle of it married, and left his wife to return to the front; and who later wrote LOTR mostly under the shadow of WWII in which his children were fighting. People seem to forget that Tolkien was both a lover and a soldier; both are very relevant to these passages.
Then how exactly does that square with him wanting a woman to be on the frontlines? I mean, he wrote a character that espouses stupid beliefs, then instead of having her be humbled, he actually encourages this by making her a hero through some lawyer-ball shenanigan. And yes they are idiotic beliefs. "I'd rather be on the front lines! Dying in glory!" When has any man ever returned from the front lines saying it was worth it? That's a stupid notion you have before you actually have to do any killing or dying. It's fair that a character that has never seen battle may hold such a view, but in literally any other story that character is disabused of that notion as soon as they see battle. The author doesn't generally encourage that idea, I mean unless it's a propaganda piece that's actively trying to buoy up young men to die for some inane cause. It's truly baffling to me, and frankly embarrassing to find out Tolkien was a feminist.
@@keegobricks9734 Tolkien wasn't a feminist, something Jess says very clearly at the end of the video. And I think your reading of her character misses the point. Eowyn is meant to play into the shield maiden mythical archetype (and I've also heard a fun argument that her defeat of the Witch King was Tolkien's answer to Shakespeare's Macbeth prophesy ("none of woman born shall harm Macbeth" - the guy who kills him was born by c-section, thus arguably not "born" properly) - basically using wordplay and literal interpretation to lead to someone's downfall.) Eowyn longs for renown through doing great deeds and the way she sees to get it is battle. As she becomes overwhelmed by despair, she then wishes to die in battle. She kills the Witch King, sure - and then wakes up alive in the House's of Healing, with no way to continue to participate in the fight or get what she's looking for. She's then convinced that a peaceful life isn't pitiful, life is a gift, and what she really wants (and had given up on) was to be loved. Her happy ending is that she recognizes her earlier mindset was wrong and chooses peace and service, which Tolkien's Christian faith dictates as the higher calling for anyone. Tolkien didn't want women on the front lines and Eowyn isn't rewarded for her despair.
@@keegobricks9734 eowyn's character wasn't a reflection on feminism in the book, and the movie was too shallow to say much. but even if it was you've got to give a historical context to it. 1969 man steps on the moon. 1976 woman can get a credit card without a husband's approval in the US. tolkien grew up when the only women working were working girls. women had duties. it wasn't until millions of men died in the first world war that the idea of letting women join the work force wasn't such a bad thing. I don't think anyone these days would call you a feminist because you have women friends who work
Why was Eowyn on the front lines? Tolkin said he wanted to add to literature two moment that Shakespeare had set up but failed to deliver in Macbeth: A woman killing in the loophole "for none of woman born Shall harm Macbeth." and "Macbeth shall never vanquished be until Great Birnam Wood to high Dunsinane Hill Shall come against him". Macbeth is killed by a man delivered by c-section, after an army approaches hiding under branched cut from the woods, both of which are undeniably unsatisfying, especially in a play where lady Macbeth does kill. So he wrote the Ents marching and Eowyn killing, and Eowyn is designed working backwards from the question "why would a princess be on the battlefield?" in the same way the Ents' story arc are built from the question "why would trees march on the black army?" And both are built well. Eowyn reminds me most of the Russian widows who sold their homes, bought tanks, and fought Germans, often because their whole family was dead. Their whole purpose became revenge and despair. The line "The women of this country learned long ago, those without swords can still die upon them." speaks to this. These women epitomize a unique kind of courage and agency among civilians who would otherwise be helpless victims. They fought back, often with great skill. But there is a kind of despair in someone who fights because they have nothing else left, and Eowyn's character speaks to that. Hers is a bold choice, but it's also the choice "die trying, or die not trying". To ignore how that's a limited choice is to ignore her story entirely. It's kind of like the savage last bite of a beheaded rattlesnake, called a death bite. A striking, powerful, hopeless despair. This leads me to question of when a soldier (male or female) should stay out of combat. When ordered to. Yes, she was assigned that as a woman and no that's not fair, and yes she's absolutely right to call that out. Nonetheless, someone with integrity, military expertise, and royal authority has to evacuate the civilians. The king has to go with his army, for morale reasons. Wormtounge could not be trusted even if he was available. That leaves Eomer and Eowyn and I guess whoever took over when Eowyn abandoned her post. Aragorn's not wrong to tell her that AS A SOLDIER, her duty is her assigned post. He's not telling her she's not a real soldier. Obeying orders is inherently a soldier thing. He's not thrilled about his assignment, certain death in the paths of the dead, either, but he doesn't abandon it. But I'm okay with Tolkin letting her make a questionable choice, because his characters do that all the time. She goes anyway, slays the witch king, and is badly wounded in her arm. Faramir recognizes her as a mighty warrior and an equal, and is still completely justified in telling her she should wait for her broken arm to heal before she engages in further swordfights. And with pointing out that if the war ends before then, he hopes she finds meaning in peacetime. Which she does, because he gives her hope and love and listens to her. Is Tolkin a modern feminist? No, and that's okay! He clearly honors that strong women exist in war in the character of Eowyn, and in giving her a story arc that is a WHOLE PERSON, with strengths and flaws. It would have been so easy (and consistent) to let Eowyn sneak out and die in the last battle because she's already wounded, but he chose to say "a woman who chose to fight back can live in peace after the war" (and explicitly not to make her unmarriageable). And Faromir was the perfect character to give her that hope.
Tolkien disapproved of feminists (he says so explicitly in his letters), and he initially intended Eowyn to die in battle before the walls of Minas Tirith. His insight into how trapped she felt in Edoras, how courage and despair drove her to seek death in battle, the eucatastrophe of her triumph over the Witch King, and how she found healing and new purpose, all stem from his gradual recognition of her full humanity. It's a mark of his skill as a writer that he developed such a rich character, despite his political opinions. In a way, he followed where she led, and was rewarded with Eowyn, one of the great heroines of literature.
"Tolkien disapproved of feminists (he says so explicitly in his letters)" You need to substantiate that with a quote. Most of what I have seen on this is utter drivel from people pushing a pro or anti-feminist agenda and I suspect you are doing the same.
Tolkien is interesting because yes he’s traditional in his views of men and women having different roles, purposes, etc., but he also lets his characters become whole people. Men hold hands and hug. They kiss each other’s heads. They cry. They talk about their feelings. They care for each other. They’re allowed to show qualities that we would identify as feminine today. And it makes them such deeper characters. Through Eowyn, we see the opposite. She wants to fight too. She wants to show off her strength and fighting ability. She wants to be allowed to find purpose in death in battle like the men do and not wait to be overtaken. She really just wants the right to be a whole person like the men are. And whatever reservations Tolkien had about feminism, I think he at least viewed women as whole people. And once Eowyn won the right to be a whole person, she chooses to not be a fighter anymore. She doesn’t have to be. She’s found someone that respects her as a whole person and she has nothing to prove anymore. She can choose to be a healer; she’s not being forced to or told it’s her duty. There’s an interesting paper on her by Dr Sara Brown called “Eowyn it was, and Dernhelm also”. There is some gender theory in that paper that is interesting, but is certainly nothing Tolkien would have thought about (or agreed with likely), but there are some points that I think really fit. The idea is that Eowyn has been reduced to only being able to express her feminine side. So Dernhelm is her masculine side which she is forced to hide and can only express in secret. But in the moment she reveals herself to the witch king, she is casting aside the disguise and uniting the two sides of her into one whole. At the peak of her expression of what we might consider masculine energy, she declares herself a woman and gives the name Eowyn.
He was also a romantic, and it bothered him deeply that his wife didn’t share his passion for Beren and Luthien, whom he playfully alluded to as his wife and he.
The scene I love is the one they took out, but then added to the special editions is the rage of her bother. His scream of sadness as it turns to madness thinking she is dead is great.
My favourite part in the books, too. Hits like a truck every time. Éomer arrives and finds his King, held dear like a father, lying dead. This is sad, but he died well and Éomer now needs to take up command. So he hardens his resolve, turns around and sees his sister, who shouldn't even be there, also lying dead. This is too much, and he leads his troops in a rage-fuelled frontal assault (This is the part where they just shout "death", like in the movie) that leaves his army isolated and ripe for destruction by the countercharge of the Mûmakil.
11:00 the other thing is that in warrior societies like the Rohirrim, winning glory in battle and being remembered after death is the highest form of honor, so it's no wonder that Eowyn is so concerned with attaining that status
Eowyn -- Confined in the Houses of Healing and hating life with the same passion as Gollum hating the Sun and Moon. Faramir upon seeing Eowyn: A chance for Faramir, Captain of Gondor, to show his quality.
@@Snagprophet Yes! I feel so much of Eowyn and Faramir speaks to Tolkien's experience as a veteran from WW1. Many soldiers met and married nurses who tended to them, or formed friendships with others who were in sickbeds with them. Of course with them, they're both being healed and end up married.
I remember how exciting the Dernhelm reveal was for me when I first read it. I suspect if I had been older I would have picked up on some subtle hints, but 10 year olds are fairly easy to fool. I loved it.
The most overlooked aspect of both book and movie Eowyn is her single strike death blow on the winged fell beast. Aragorn notes "you have some skill with a blade" but no-one has seen it used in a battle context. Nobody else squared up to one of those beasts, although at the time all she desired was to die fighting as a soldier she still took it on. She's a hero and she's awesome and I think my favourite between book and movie version is book Eowyn simply due to the surprise factor as we didn't know who Dernhelm was untill the helmet came off.
This was very well done. Thank you. Characters like Eowyn remind me of the strong, complex and interesting women I’ve known as friends (and more) throughout my own life.
To know that beauty exists and be unable to perceive it... At Christmas my family re-watched the trilogy. But because a year-long infection had rendered me nearly deaf I was only able to hear a severely amputated version of the score. Knowing and loving that music, and being robbed of its beauty nearly broke my heart. Thankfully my hearing has recovered and the world sings for me again.
You say so much in such few words. I think you have expressed one of the deep afflictions of this world: too many people unable to perceive the beauty that exists in its myriad forms. Thank you for sharing your story. I, a stranger, am so glad you have had a "happy ending."
I always thought of Éowyn as having a bit of a duality in the book, between the empowerment of showing that a woman can indeed be the equal to a man, and fight for what she believes in just as fiercely, and the feeling of brokenness. A woman who fears a cage and the inability to gain valor and who sought her own death in battle. In the end, I feel that this came to a head in the battle with the Witch King of Angmar, when she revealed herself, empowered as a woman standing between him and her uncle, the king. Protection of who and what she loved, regardless of whether she gained valor from it or not. After killing him, she seeks death still, and wakes in bitterness in hospital, with her mind in torment and Faramir helps her sort her feelings. It can feel a bit rushed, but it's incredibly nuanced, as you said, and I always felt that her sense of purpose comes into focus, and the duality of her character comes together, and she's whole for the first time. Because she knows that she doesn't have to die to be free of a cage, and that she can be empowered with Faramir, who sees and loves her for who she is, not as the woman other men might have wanted her to be.
As much as Theoden's death in the movie really worked with Eowyn, I still love how the book handled it. When theoden comes to and sees Merry looking down on him, his first thought is to apologize that he'll never get to keep his promise to let Merry yap and nerd out to him about tobacco varieties and cultivars. And then he tells Merry to think of him when he smokes his pipe, and for a while after, Merry can't out of grief. Made me cry like a baby when i first read it.
Éowyn and Éomer lost their parents when they were children. Éowyn probably had few if any women around her, just a bunch of men. Imagine living as a woman without any female figure to be inspired by during all your life. To make things worse the rohirrim were absolute barbarians who knew nothing to live for other than war and horses, Éowyn had only heard songs of killing and war during her entire life! Then, obviously she would wish to take part in this! But it was always denied to her, she was doomed to wait upon an old sick man whom she loved as a father, and her part was utterly ignoble. As a man who was raised surrounded by women, I say that the inverse of this experience is terrible, I can understand her plight through personal experience, and I'm very sorry for her. Then she went to the houses of healing, there she saw men and women saving lives, learned in lore and history, man and women who knew more of life than slaying and war. And then she met Faramir, a man whom according to Éowyn herself:"no rider of the mark could outmatch in battle". He was a tall gigachad who was also gentle and learned, and he offered her another perspective of life, one which she could have peace and freedom beyond battle.
The only thing I disagree with is calling the Rohirrim barbarians: Theirs was a violent society due to necessity, as that violence was channeled against Mordor and Isengard; They valued and loved their horses, song and poetry, treasured family, no less than the folk of Gondor. I'd say they're more Pagan/earthy, but not barbaric in the way that, say, the Orcs or the evil men Saruman employed, are.
Maybe by my own interpretation; the book scene felt like a “she was destined to be there”. Like she wanted to go, she knew had had to fight. And with the disapproval of her father (edit: her uncle), she had to sneak herself into the battlefield. Many coincidences (or rather providence?) later, she ends up slaying Mr. Witch King. Providence is very relevant to Christians, like me, and I just assume that Tolkien wrote it that way for a reason.
Acts of Providence are all over the books, and to a lesser extent, the movies, too. I had a friend who hadn’t read the books, and didn’t Ike the movies very much because he thought there were too many conveniences and happy accidents. When I explained to him that that probably carried over from the books, where part of Tolkien’s point was to depict the workings of divine will in the world, he decided he wouldn’t like the books, either. To my knowledge, he never read them. His loss, IMO.
the first time i read the books, Dernhelm being revealed as Eowyn is one of the most magical surprises for me. that was lost in the movie she could set down her sword for having killed the witch king, she could achieve no greater glory. she'd followed that path to it's end and then see's how else she may grow
Absolutely, that moment is stunning. I could see how it would be tough to make Miranda Otto really look like a man in close-up shots, but the surprise is so cool in the books
@@Jess_of_the_Shire Yeah it's always interesting to think about how big reveals are so much easier to pull off on the page than in a medium that requires our eyes and ears. To be fair though everyone was so concerned with the impending battle that I don't think that anyone was paying too close attention to one soldier wearing a face-concealing helmet.
The book version is by far the superior one, but then, that is true for the other characters as well, for all the reasons Jess explains in the video; the time and space available to the author that the film writer doesn't have.
Tolkien's work is full of people discovering that their highest calling is to serve and heal others, even to the point of self-sacrifice. Aragon knows that is who he is. It is how Gandalf keeps on track. And Saruman falls by straying from it.
The first scene with Eowyn and Theoden always reminds me a bit of King Lear and his daughter Cordelia, which is funny given how Tolkien felt about Shakespeare.
The bit about the Witch King not being killed by a man is right out of the Scottish Play, too. The title character could not be killed by a man of woman born, but MacDuff was from his mother's womb untimely ripped. (TH-cam is a sort-of theater, so one must be careful about curses.)
I m not so sure if Tolkien feelings about Shakespeare are due to Tolkiens opinion about Shakespeare's ability as a writer, or about the adulation of others as the GOAT.
As always, great in-depth character analysis! As a male, I always liked her character in the movies. Her triumph was ridiculously satisfying, and the pairing with such a disgraced and noble character like Faramir was the icing on the cake, for both their sakes lol 😂
This is such a deep, nuanced and compelling take on the complex in her ambition and complicated in her grief character of Eowyn, I absolutely love it, thank you, Jess! I definitely prefer the book Eowyn, as I find her not only more interesting to observe, but also way more relatable. She is one of my best loved characters, and following her journey in the book was incredibly healing for me on every read. Yet I agree that the film Eowyn also has her own important role and her merit. However, I don’t really like that the film Eowyn was made overtly vulnerable right from the get go, as the whole point of her character arc was in her being out of touch with her own emotional state in the beginning (which is described as her appearing cold on the outside), and then slowly and painfully getting back in touch with it - which results in her swaying first to the very bottom of the grief that she carried, and then, finally starting an upward spiral towards inner healing and peace. And, gosh, this is such an incredibly beautiful twist when the one with no hope for herself decides to become the bringer of hope for others…
One issue that the movie glosses over (out of necessity) is that Eowyn could not have delivered the death blow to the Witch King if Merry had not first struck him with the blade from the Barrow Downs - the blade that was imbued with magic for exactly that purpose by the smiths of Arnor, though it would not be put to its intended use for millennia. The text describes the blade as having broken the spell that bound the wraith's spirit to his sinews, the implication being that it rendered him vulnerable to Eowyn's strike (which, in the book, takes the form of a beheading - a much more exciting fight scene IMO than the film version.) This does not detract from her accomplishment, but I think it gets overlooked that "I am no man" could have been said equally by Eowyn (a woman), and by Merry (a hobbit). It was, in fact, a team effort.
@@specialnewb9821 - In Tolkien's world, providence plays a significant part, and the thing about the blade is actually in the text though it's easy to overlook.
Eowyn’s laughter at the Witch King tells us so much about her head space. In my head it’s a sad laugh, a laugh of disbelief, a scared and frustrated laugh, a laugh of dissonance. But it’s also a boss move in a way- to laugh at such a powerful figure because you’re starting to recognize it’s ultimately powerless.
Basically the entire sequence of the ride of the rohirrim in both the text, and in the films ultimately leaves me with water eyes at best. Tolkien had a way of writing about a battle that no one else captures, probably because he has experience to draw on, and the result is this glorious, and ugly thing that is as fun to read as it is sorrowful. Eomers cries of grief when he sees his king and sister dead, and his heedless charge back into battle are so impactful that it feels like I'm reading it for the first time every time.
One thing missed in the video, the sorta cheer up monologue that was done by Faramir in the books at the end, was sorta done by Aragorn in the movies way earlier, when Eowyn speak of being caged and all he answer that it wouldn't be her fate, he basically tells her he believes in her, unlike the books where it may come off rather instead somewhat as pity instead, while yea later he tried to prevent her from fighting, he still sort of steal Faramir's thunder from in the books.
Thank you so much for zeroing in on the Eowyn character in. this video. Intuitively I recognized the story arcs she undergoes both in the book and the movie, but it was just wonderful to hear you delve deep into the character. From the perspective of being a man, Eowyn has always by far been my favorite (accessible) female character in LOTR. Galadreil is of course utterly extraordinary, but simply inaccessible to me, mortal as I am.
I love the book version of Eowyn better, but I think the movie version was just as amazing. I’m glad that we have both versions because we get to have conversations like this. Great video.
Your reading of Faramir's lines to Eowyn are so much better than the voice actor that said them in the 1980 BBC radio play. This is the first time that those lines felt real to me.
"I also saw what you saw, Eomer. There are few things in this world that bring a man more shame than to behold the love of a woman so fair that cannot be returned. But I tell you truly that she loves you more than me."
One thing I love about Eowyn in the movies is despite being strong and brave she still shows fear (all the protagonists do) whereas when characters have no fear or doubt it usually makes the film feel like every battle is trivial
Eowyn was one of the most relatable characters for me & I’m a straight, white guy who’s always been wary of feminism-Like most -isms, it means too many different things to do many different people for me to trust it. I can totally relate to Eowyn’s frustrated ambitions, however. I’m sort of a support character by nature, I think. I may not have main character energy but that doesn’t mean I don’t get frustrated when I’m reduced to being a bit player in the story of my own life. It sucks, man. And requited love? I know a little about that, too. Eowyn’s frustrated, lonely & feels a responsibility to due her duty. She just wants something for herself is all. Who hasn’t felt that way at some point?
Éowyn is one of my favourite characters in both book and movie, these days reminding me of someone very dear to me. I am extremely grateful that PJ did not just simply turn her into a boss-girl and I quietly pity the fools laughing at her getting "only 2. place" with Faramir.
I've had never thought of movie Eowyn as just wanting to prove girl power. Her comparison to Merry made me buy the premise that she wanted to help and protect her people yet she is not taken seriously, which was relatable and Will remain relatable intil I'm muscly enough
Eowyn's part in the book was probably responsible for a good deal of the modern version of the fantasy trope of the shieldmaiden... thus the tropes that infected the screenwriting of the movie had less of an effect on her. I was not thrilled with the movie's execution of most of her big scenes, but Otto was great and she did still get to do her thing, which is one of my favorite parts of the book to read. It was just not quite as written.
25:07 I think something to remember as well is that there is also a male character who is defined by their role as a servant. Sam. People never seem to think of Sam being a humble gardener as a negative thing, so why do people think that it should be with Eowyn? Sam's love of "all things that grow" plays a huge role in helping the Shire to heal, and he is more renowned for this and his role as mayor by his fellow hobbits for this then he ever is for his deeds battle. Humility and service to others is one of the biggest themes present throughout LotR. And that doesn't change based on whether the character is male or female. That is the whole point of the hobbits being the hero's of the story and of how the Ring represents how the desires for strength, power or glory can corrupt you. Eowyn's story is also in many ways about how often it takes more courage to live then to die. She was afraid of living a life without renown. And I believe her story is about overcoming that fear. Rejecting her more selfish desire to die and replacing it with a life of helping others.
The way people have a double standard towards Eowyn has always been annoying to me. If a male character ended his story with laying down his weapons and forsaking violence, after spending most of the book looking for and idealizing those things, to seek a peaceful life to build a family he'd be hailed as one of the most realistic and inspirational role models in fiction. But when a lady does it she's... submitting to the patriarchy?
I always thought Eowin putting down her sword after the war ended was the most sensible thing in the world. The enemy was vanquished and it was a time to heal so she turned her energy to that path. Is there anything more pitiful than a swaggering soldier who fails to recognize that his time has passed? I would have hated it if Eowin had turned into that character.
THIS. THIS is exactly what I am saying. I am not kidding when I say that IT FRUSTRATES me when I ask "Well, if you don't like Eowyn settling down with Faramir, what should she be doing then?" to someone who hated Eowyn becoming a healer and a lady. And they'll respond: "bE a CaPtAiN or whatever military leader" as if it's the obvious answer. I think it's coming from this defensive extreme feminist fantasy where Eowyn being an idealized warrior is their idea of peak feminism.😂
Great video! Eowyn is one of my favorite characters, if not my favorite, from the books. For me, the movies missed a chance to really show her complexity. The movie is good, but it focuses mainly on her struggle to make it as a woman in a man's world. Definitely an important part of her character, but it's just a part, not the whole. Book Eowyn certainly struggles with her role in the male-driven world, but she also has great loyalty to her house and family, desires for great deeds and glory in battle, a good degree of despair/depression, and a desire to prove herself worthy. She is so interesting and cool, and it all comes to a head when she faces the witch king. In the book - it's a perfectly written couple of paragraphs. Her loyalty, strength, ability, despair, love for her family, and yes her frustration of being a woman in a man's world, are all on full display. It's beautiful. In the movie, we get "I am no man - arrrght!"....just the feminism, nothing more complex or interesting than that. Not bad, it just could have been so much more, IMO.
The emotions that Miranda Otto showcases as an actor while signing the funeral dirge for Theodred are amazing as well. This scene is totally a movie storyline and nothing from the book because, in the book version, Theodred is buried at the Fords of Isen by Grimbold.
I admired Eowyn in the books and in the movie. I don't believe that they could have cast it any better than Miranda Otto. She makes a perfect Saxon Princess and except for the horses the Rohirrim are based on the Anglo-Saxons.
The way I saw it was that Eowyn wanted to do these great deeds to prove, if only to herself, that she could. And the conversations with Faramir allowed her to see that there was an alternative to death in battle, and that she'd be no less renowned because of it. I feel the sentance '..her heart changed, or perhaps she understood it ' is so important, and often overlooked by modern commentators.
Yet, despite Eowyn's disagreement with Aragorn, he turned out to be right when he told her her fate was not to be caged. For instead of finding her peace or fate on the battlefield, she found it as the equal partner of Faramir, a mighty warrior who wanted peace rather than glory.
This video inspired me to go back and re-read the books after years. Only halfway through fellowship but holy shit did I miss the feeling I only get reading the books. Newish to the channel, can’t wait to go back and watch your past videos as I’m reading!
Jess, I love this video, BUT I think that far too many of us gloss over how much Eowyn was willing to risk in following the boys to war. Aragorn himself highlights this - Eowyn was not just being assigned the task of keeping house, finding beds for the warriors and then getting burned with the house once the men no longer need it... Once Theoden decides to ride to war, and Eomer as Third Marshall of the Riddermark cannot be spared from the fighting, someone has to stay behind to run things! Eowyn is designated as ruler, because "all love her". She ran Theoden's household, she likely ran the city when Wormtongue didn't care about the details of a functioning government, and someone needed to keep the civilians safe, and even make military decisions regarding the roving bands of orcs and Dunlendings that might assault outlying farms or try to take Dunharrow (Edoras was abandoned and there had been some "hard words" but Eowyn herself had diffused the situation once the people were installed in the hills - Helm's Deep likely still held the bulk of the families from the Westfold and those walking wounded fighters who stayed behind to protect the keep and guard the Fords of Isen with the help of the Ents and the Huorns). When Aragorn tried to remind her of this, she in turn tried to justify her position (and tried to not sound petulant, even in her own ears)...Aragorn wasn't being hypocritical, because he couldn't take her along on his side quest, WITHOUT LEAVE OF HER KING/UNCLE AND/OR HER BROTHER, since she was the designated leader of the realm in their absence! So off he went, to certain death, so she thought, while she brooded on her wrongs and then snuck away, disguised as Dernhelm, to what we would call today, 'suicide by cop'. She can't have the love of the first high born stranger that she has ever seen who at least understands what she's trying to say, even if he doesn't agree? Screw that! She'll take some Rider's place in battle, kill every orc she can trample until her luck and skill runs out. That her brother will also get suicidally homicidal when he thinks she dead, well, she didn't think of that! Someone took charge in her absence, and presumably someone trustworthy, one of the elders or wounded captains, and as the Lords of Gondor left Minas Tirith as well manned as before the battle, again, some Captain like Erkenbrand most likely stayed behind to command the Rohirrim and do battle with the last army of orcs, and to advise the refugees when they could return to Edoras. Either way, nothing more was said about Eowyn going AWOL, so a 'no harm no foul' and the end. There's a military precident for that...if you disobey an order, but in so doing, you win the battle/mission/war, you get a medal instead of a court martial. But only if you win!
Yes! Eowyn leaves her whole people exposed when she just .... wanders off. Because, "it's not fair!" Her whole story is a study in 'all's well that ends well', but she's terribly irresponsible the whole way through, and betrays the trust of king, kin, and community.
One of the main themes of the book is the sense of duty. The embodiment of duty is Aragorn, who never strays from the path that destiny has set before him. Eowyn, in considering her position and comparing herself to men, doesn't take duty into account, thinking that men can do whatever they want. Aragorn responds that any man in her place (as the leader of the refugees) would be responsible and would not be able to abandon his position and duty. Of course, Eowyn's sense of duty, or lack of it, is just a small part of her story. Few remember Eomer in the story of Eowyn, who is almost like her twin brother in terms of their psyche. Eomer saved himself from depression because he wasn't confined to the court and had his masculine warrior activities on the plains beneath the sun, which Gandalf accurately observed. However, Eomer was not far from despair and the desire for death, as shown by his reckless behavior after discovering the king and his sister lying on the battlefield. Perhaps it was precisely because of Eomer and her close brotherly bond with him that Eowyn thought she could find salvation in masculine activities and glory on the battlefield.
It took me many years myself to understand Eowyn's character arc. 14 year old me loved Eowyn as the warrior maiden riding into battle, and 14 year old me could not understand why she gave it all to be with Faramir. Then 35 year old me reread the books and saw what 14 year old me missed: Eowyn was not written as an icon or symbol as many women are written in modern media but always she was a fully developed character with goals and motivations. I was only focused on seeing her on the Battle field rather than reasons she was there in the first place.
Same. When I am younger, I love physically strong, bold, brave heroines and see Eowyn as an ideal feminist icon but now, I learn to appreciate her more as a character. She's flawed because she also have her bitter, cold, pessimestic side but she can also self-reflect and change her view on life. I LOVE her even more.
appreciating her and Faramir's love story is another thing that made me appreciate LOTR even more. Faramir, the noble captain of Gondor, truly loves Eowyn for who she is, not for her station, her beauty, or her valorous deeds. I think what won Eowyn more than anything is Faramir is the fist person to ask her what she truly wants rather than telling her what her duty is. Becuase they both have to stay in the Houses of Healing due to their injuries they both have to endure the waiting together to see is Sauron was defeated or "death in battle may come to us all yet, willing or unwilling." Both of them have endured hardship ans darkness before but now they can do it together becuase as human we are made for eachother.
@@jodieg6318 I love them as a couple and as individual characters. I know that they just met and know each other for a short span of time but to me, they naturally develop as a couple. 😅 Idk, they just make sense to be together. 😂
Eowyn was my favorite character in the books, and for a long time I did not fully understand why--that she was so strong, so brave, so able and fierce, a great hero of the age despite the expectations of her sex, but also she found love and peace with someone was the yin to her yang. She was everything. In the movie, I still loved her, adored her relationship with Merry, LOATHED the whole cooking scene, liked very much how we got to see her interact with others including Wormtongue, and it was a moment of glory for her to slay the Witch King and speak with her uncle at the end.
Eowyn is my favorite character in Lord of the Rings. I named my cat after her (which perplexes the vet any time I make an appointment and have to spell the name out). I love her confrontation with the Witch-king and wish they had kept the full speech in the movie. Though I understand why they went with the pithier "I am no man!"
Let's not forget that a blade from the Barrow Downs in the hands of a Hobbit is what made the witch King vulnerable to death. It makes her make a lot more sense of she's broken and that's why she keeps fighting. I pity her and I know she would hate that.
While I love both interpretations of the character, I love book Eowyn more, precisely because of the nuances of character you describe here. Tolkien isn't particularly subtle in showing his feelings about how he feels that service to others is the true heart of heroism, as opposed to doing great deeds of renown. Compare and contrast Eowyn's motivations and journey to Sam's, for example.
I always thought the prophecy about how "no mortal man" will stop the Witch King was the kind of prophecy that a mediocre court magician would come up with to appease his abusive boss. In a world where besides Men there are Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Ents, Orcs, immortal Wizards, and of course Eowyn, saying no man will hurt you leaves a lot of other people free to stab you in the face. And without taking anything away from Eowyn, Merry (also not a "man") did his part in that fight. If I were given a prophecy like that I would not be as confident as the Witch King was.
greywulf. It is common among Tolkien Scholars to Macbeth and the prophecy that no man born of woman .... Tolkien left the battle against the witch King to a human. Shakespeare got past that prophecy by cesarean section. I think Tolkien enjoyed one-upping Shakespeare when it came to some of his plots.
Tolkien meant humans to be the main actors. In its original context the "prophecy" should have been interpreted more like advice that the Witch-King was a coward who would not engage in a fair fight.
@@josephfisher426 _"Tolkien meant humans to be the main actors."_ Not at all. The hobbits are the central characters of the novel. There is hardly a scene in which a hobbit does not appear. The first sentence of the Prologue says, "This book is largely concerned with Hobbits ... ." I'd agree that the movies turned the hobbits into little more than comic sidekicks, but that is not true of the books. Do you have actual evidence to the contrary?
@@michaelsommers2356 I should have said regular mortals (as opposed to Dwarves). Hobbits are bantam-sized Men... apparently they qualify differently in Men's eyes because they are small, but they do not seem to be a different species, as it were. One of the Tolkiens does summarize somewhere, with regard to the other species, not to Hobbits, that the Third and Fourth Ages are those of Men.
It was an Elf who uttered the prophecy millenia before, something like, "for far away is his fate, and not by the hand of man will he fall." Angmar learned of it and liked it too much.
I've taken to watching video essays in my spare time. Almost as much as I watch friendlyjordies' MAFS reviews. I've only just discovered your channel tonight - this is one of the best video essays I've ever seen! :D As someone who's figuring out how to suitably include female characters in their writing, I REALLY enjoyed your summary of Eowyn as not a feminist character - but still a beautifully written one! Your description of her story's conclusion - from shieldmaiden to healer and being of service - kinda reminded me of Kratos's monologue in Valhalla. When he realises the difference between being a "servant" and being "of service".
In the books Eowyn rides in the guise of Dernhelm, meaning secret helm, or hidden helm. I don't remember if that came directly from Anglo Saxon or the language Tolkien created.
I never imagined that Éowyn in the books never fought in a battle again as there were still lots of enemies to face but rather that it simply no longer was her only purpose.
Anyone who has fought on a battlefield can see exactly the same behavior in Eowyn as the fresh faced troops who have never seen war. They don't know the horrors just yet. They've never spilled blood nor watched their friends die or be injured. In the books she wants the same kind of fame as many of the heroes written in song and poem. But she doesn't have the same obligations as the men nor the pressures to do such things. It's why the Charge of the Rohirrim hits differently when you realize what's happening. Every man on that field knew they were going to die. They would sell their lives at a high cost to the Orc army in order to do as much damage as possible in order to provide relief for the city defenders. They knew that's what duty and honor demanded of them, Eowyn did not. I'll give her credit that she rode anyway but it was for selfish reasons.
The books, the films, and without doubt, Jess's analyses ... All recognisable masterpieces deserving equal respect. I have learned and reconsidered so so much since watching and carefully listening to this channel - It's been like seeing a picture turning from grey scale to full technicolour. Every episode an education and a real pleasure !!
Another thing which was woefully overlooked was her declaration of and concern for Merry, declaring his valiant act and that he should be carried into the city as a hero. Always moved me to tears, every time I read and re-read the tale. Probably 20 times in 52 years. I’m due again….
Book Eowyn for me, since I knew that version first. But I would also say that I think the character failings of movie Eowyn were lessened by Miranda Otto's admirable performance, and I don't think she was handled as poorly as some of the other characters. As you say, Tolkien had an predictably outmoded mindset which the films seem to downplay as much as they can, though sometimes substituing for it a modern view which is not necessarily in keeping with the idea of LotR as a "discovered" historical account, meant to reflect the ideas of a much earlier age. As always, you've made quite a few interesting and useful observations about the differences between the two works, and a nice additon to the series.
i always liked eowyn but i had a friend who absolutely despised her, and for the dumbest reason too. the friend was doing the whole swordfight thing so thinking back she should've liked her. the reason she didn't? she adored arwen and arwen with aragorn, and eowyn was crushing on him and "trying to get inbetween them". that's it, that was her reason. bonkers.
Brilliant! Again, "I don't disagree on any particular point." However, it is interesting to me that in this matter there is also woven some of that cyclical storytelling that you brought up in talking about Dune: Consider the Valar, particularly Orome the Hunter and Tulkas (who came late to middle earth to aid the others, because sometimes even the gods call for backup). These were powerful spirits, perhaps prone to the same temptations as Melkor. They could have remained safe with the Host of Heaven and hummed along with the music, but they CHOSE to take their part in the very thick of worldly events, to guide and protect the creatures of creation against the disharmony of Melkor. In doing so, they embraced whatever doubts or sorrows they would find, whether of the enemy's make or of their own doubts and dangerous ambitions -- consider the temptation of Aule and the response of Yvanna to balance out their realms of care and responsibility. Consider those of the High Elves like Galadriel who could have remained in bliss in Valinor, but who set out on the long march across the northern coasts (because they didn't/wouldn't take part in the kin-slaying) and came to middle earth against the decree of the Valar, to stop Melkor from destroying or perverting all life into spiritual darkness. They embraced a potentially hopeless fight, what Galadriel called "The Long Defeat" to come to the aid of others out of sheer love for life wherever they might find it. Consider the Faithful of Numenor, who could have followed the fate of their people according to the authority of the King Ar-Pharazon seeking immortality; and accepted that cage of authority and law until its decadence and ambition led them all to ruin on the shores of Aman. Instead, Elendil and his followers fled to middle earth as exiles, accepting their fate as mortal men, and set up bulwark kingdoms against the return of evil. Then, when Sauron returned after the sinking of Numenor, they fought to the death alongside their found allies against the inevitable power of the Dark Lord and his One Ring. Consider particularly Aragorn himself, 16th chieftain of the Dunedain, a dynasty that for centuries had been dedicated to a purely defensive holding action to resist the evil ones and protect the descendants of their former subjects. It was not "given to him" to claim the throne of Elendil, and yet he chose to expose himself as the last of his line, to risk death against the Dark Lord himself in a mad gamble to end the threat that was greater than he. He was called Estel, "Hope," and yet it was not with hope but with mad determination against the odds to risk all on whatever power remained in him from nobler ancestors to change the very nature of life in middle-earth. Then, after all these cycles, consider Eowyn. Scion of Eorl, child of the relentless warriors who had secured the borders of Gonder when they migrated to the realm, inheritor of all the northmen's cold fury... and yet it was not "given to her" not required that she ride to the relief of her people's allies. Nonetheless, she felt the Call. She took personal responsibility for seeing that the commission of her kind was fulfilled in history. Then, with the laughter of Glorfindel ringing in the ears of history, she fulfilled it. "I am no man!" she shouted, and the chief servent of Sauron was struck down in the field, and his forces were thrown in such disarray that the arrival of the armies of the south (with Aragorn) were enough to win the battle after all. After that, she did what the cycles of storytelling said such heroes could do. The Valar banished Melkor, and they keep their blessing upon their home Valinor in the West. After the fall of Melkor, Galadriel kept watch and guardianship of Laurelindorinan and made it prosper as a force against the servants of evill, until even she could return to Valinor herself, having won the long battle after all. The Numenorians continued in their accepted mortality as Dunedain, and Aragorn reunited the ancient lines that would endure beyond what he knew would be his lifetime, trusting his children to continue the fate of the people. Thus it is only proper that Eowyn of the Rohirrim, after fulfilling the fate of her people to honorably fight and join with the people of Gondor, would herself aid and join with their High Steward Faramir and work towards the healing and blossoming of the lands of men (and living in the beautiful gardens of Ithilien) in later days. Eowyn did not "submit" to anything. She fulfilled a destiny and then received the rewards of the fate and love that comes after. Because she was so willing to suffer and even die while fighting with all her honorable will, she proved herself worthy to be elevated to a greater status than just warrrior. She became a guardian of the future of the people enjoined. The Valar joined with middle-earth and its creatures. The best of elves joined with the plight of those who suffered from Melkor's destructions. The Faithful joined with their fate to be bound to the mortal lands. Aragorn joined with the scattered kingdoms and his own older cousins to renew the world. Eowyn joined with the noblest of men -- a man who had refused even the One Ring itself -- to heal and protect the future of those lands. Thus the cycle of the Call and the answering continues throughout history and fate. Tolkien himself could have kept his position in academia rather than volunteer to fight in the trenches, but he also heard the Call of joining in the fates of foreign lands, and he answered. For his reward, he was able to join with his one love, Edith, and to this love he dedicated the heart of his literary works for the rest of his mortal life, and upon their gravestones is written "Beren and Luthien." He knew all too well the cycle of potential pain and sacrifice, and the joys of rejoining. In Tolkien's world, the Garden is the ideal, and the gardener the most noble of undertakings, and with this the greatest of heroes are rewarded. Another case in point, enter Sam Gamgee the Gardener, and the Shire itself, of which it was said (approx), "It must be a blessed land indeed, where gardeners are held in such high esteem." Overall, for a while, Eowyn was infatuated with Aragorn because she recognized somewhat of HERSELF in him, and of them both in older tales. However, in the end, she loved Faramir, because the two of them were equals in a generation of helping the world transition as best it could into the next age of joining. They both remembered the inherited loyalties and nobilities of the past, but they dedicated themselves to protecting the world into the future. They had both ridden out against the worst of evils they could find, without hope of survival, and yet "Hope" had brought them together for a task worthy of their faithfulness. Such are the cycles of storytelling :)
It’s not surprising at all that her story resolution would circle back to the value of service. The central themes of LotR surround service-specifically, loyalty and duty, the attraction of followers to a leader, and the actions of that leader towards their followers that make them worth following. And how peers can fulfill both roles for each other. This is why I’m kinda surprised it still connects with people so much these days. We may live in a service economy, but we do not live in a service society. We’re highly individualistic and ambitious, with some kind of autonomy being arguably the main goal in life for most people. And the resentment against bosses has reached an all-time high. It’s also why I tell people my brother appreciates LotR more than I do. My favorite character is almost always “the wise old man,” and Gandalf is no exception. But his favorite characters are Théoden, the self-sacrificing king, and Samwise, the ever-loyal servant.
She's feminist in many ways, but I think people miss that more than that, she's a representation of the war veteran experience through Tolkien's eyes. She goes from yearning for war and being practically suicidal, to realizing what's more important and finding completion in rebuilding after the fighting is done rather than dying hopeless upon the field. She has one of the biggest and most thematic arcs from start to finish in the books imo. Equal to Frodo, in that Frodo is the other side of the veteran experience where you're eternally marred by PTSD and everything you tried to protect is still unavoidably damaged by the war.
Great video! When I first read LOTR, before having seen the movies, I saw Éowyn as a real fist pumping, girl power character, because of that moment with the witch king. I especially love this line “Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!" and I read that laugh like steel as her showing everyone she was a bad ass. I was just a kid, so I missed the nuance of the depression she was in. It's so subtly layered in. Well, now that I think about it, there was tons of stuff I didn't pick up on first time through. lol. But I am compelled to read LOTR once a year because of that reason. I always find new things!
Loving arwen for her beauty, commitment, and feats from FOTR, Eowyn felt like a romantic interest that was never going to happen and that she settled for Faramir, (from a laymans perspective). I love the depth and personal growth she has in the book. Great video and thank you Jess. I love this and the video on Boromir.
While quite different, I do love both characterizations of Éowyn, I feel they're deeply important in different ways and contribute heavily to the tone of both the books and the film adaptations. As a woman who also loves Tolkien I am so happy to have found your channel, your work is easily my favourite and I always look forward to your videos! Intentionally or not you've created such a wonderful space for everyone to appreciate his work, fairy tales and the craft of story telling, it's very touching.
Great video breakdown of Eowyn You made a point about Eowyn stepping back into a more submissive role, and being a servant because Faramir told her, but I didn’t really get that vibe. It felt more like he counselled her to turn from her suicidal drive and she finally understood this, especially in the light of her war experience and seeing the chance for a higher calling in Faramir
I really love that Eowyn’s arc in the book *doesn’t* revolve around her being a woman. Like, female empowerment stories are great, but I personally find it to be better representation for women to have a female character with an arc about something non-gender specific. Having so many female characters be defined by their gender gets tiresome
One thing that I would like to point out in defence of Tolkien, is that at the end. Everyone let down their swords and become a healer, a nurturer, a pacifist. Because Tolkien valued those things above valor and warfare
I always considered Éowyn as kind of naive and spoiled. She was a noblewoman in the household of the king, after all. She saw Aragorn, argueably the first strange man she found attractive and she immediatly developed a deep crush she mistook for deep love. Then there was her deep desire to accomplish great deeds. In the context of the books, of what inspired them and their general setting, this means deeds that will bring fame, that will be sung of in years to come. She envys the men who get this chance when they ride into battle and fails to see what strength and glory there is beyond battle. Compare it with Galadriel or Arwen who embrace their female power and whose contribution to the cause was extremely important. And while she is certainly trained, I doubt she has ever fought a real battle - some things at least the movies allude to. When she loses all hope - everyone gone, her love rejected - she abandons her task at home and throws herself into battle. I thought she does this in part to for a final chance of impressing Aragorn. And though often critcized, I love the turn from warrior princess to humble healer. She has seen the truth of battle, seen and experienced the wounds it caused. One of the main themes in the books was that healing and compassion is superior than fame and power. The true king of Gondor is a healer, after all. And one mistake, that many commit when they talk about Éowyn, is the fact, that you simply cannot use modern morals in historic settings - and Middle Earth is a Dark Age / medieval setting. There have been reasons, why men did the fighting and got the fame linked to that and why the women nurtured and healed, why they were protected and the men were sacrificed. Tolkien did a great thing: he broke the trope of the Princess in the tower, the beautiful damsel, gave her strength and determination instead, but he thought it to the end, what she would go through after her first battle, after returning from the brink of death. He lets her fall into depression, find solace in the company of another broken person and outgrow her crush on Aragorn and her misled dream of fame. And the growing of her relationship with Faramir, slowly, tentatively but also sweet is written beautifully.
I love your vids! These book vs movies comparisons are nice because I too, like most younger millennial/older gen Z kids probably, had watched the movies first before reading the books, but have since fallen in love with the books as well :) . I think Miranda Otto as Eowyn was one of my first crushes admittedly and I loved how genuinely she cared for Merry and even gave him the horn he blew when the hobbits returned to the Shire. Her going from her lowest point in her grieving of Theodred and having to deal with Wormtongue and her then running out as the flag of Rohan rips away from the pole to show off the the slow decay of the region, to then seeing Theoden become himself again and seeing the joy in her face was a very cathartic moment in LOTR, and nowadays, especially when dealing with the struggles of life, that scene with Theoden in the movie being freed of Saruman's influence is absolutely incredible and continues to help me push through when times are tough. Bernard Hill will be missed and it was cool how he made the extra effort to stay involved in lotr communities and talk about Lotr with fans, his portrayal of Theoden was incredible, I hope you make a vid for him too :). Kinda random, but still Arda related, but would you recommend the Fall of Gondolin even if I've already read the Silmarillion? I've heard it was mainly Christopher Tolkien's efforts to compile all available information on the events of the fall in a more comprehensive form, but wasn't sure if there was any new material or not. I heard JRR Tolkien made alot of revisions to the story, so I'm just a bit confused on if the Silmarillion contains the same version of the events in that book, or if it's more of an exploration of different iterations of the story.
I suspect that Tolkien may have envisioned Eowyn as much more androgynous and stoic than she is portrayed in the movies. With Tolkien, I sense in her a quiet desperation as well as a courageous resolve. Some of the scenes in the movie seem to portray her as a femme fatale. Her desire to die so she can win renown reminds me of the Iliad in which Achilles must choose the warrior culture in which one dies and is remembered for ages vs. the ordinary man who dies and is not remembered. Later when she grows to love Faramir who believes there is something more glorious than renown in battle, she changes from warrior to healer or should I say to a "wounded healer." In Faramir Tolkien seeks to undermine the idea that there is glory in war and that a simple, peaceful life is much better.
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You forgot to add the female characters from the war of the north who has female characters also the the hobbit series and the series has plenty of female characters
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I have seen God act in my life. He saved my soul, changed my heart, changed my mind, helped people through me, took care of people in my life, people I hurt before I found God. God is the only reason I was able to reconcile with my dad before he died.
God worked through Jesus Christ to save our souls. Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins. Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved. Be baptized in The Holy Spirit, and if He wills, water as well. Repent of your sins, accept God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit into your heart, that Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son Jesus Christ, that all who believe on Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth and The Life. No one comes to the Father Jehovah God but through Him.
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"She is actively trying to get herself killed". Exactly. I've always thought that the reason she can stand up to the Witch King is because his primary weapon is fear and Eowyn has basically resigned herself to death already, would welcome it, she has nothing left to be afraid of.
Yes,
Hope is important, for most people, most of the time.
But when Hope is gone, that is when true heroes stand up (or in this case, a heroin)
@@micklumsden3956 Heroin is the drug, heroine is a heroic woman. An extremely easy mistake to make and yet also extremely funny to me every time it's made.
Spot on
His primary weapon is fear . . . fear and surprise . . . and an almost fanatical dedication to the pope! (um, I mean Sauron)
@@purplelibraryguy8729 Gees I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. th-cam.com/video/Cj8n4MfhjUc/w-d-xo.html
Many don't understand that Éowyn doesn't submit or capitulate when she accepts Faramir's love: what he is offering her is a higher calling than death in battle. She comes from a far more primitive society that sees physical strength and violence as the path to achievement, but Gondor's leaders are revered for being learned and wise. Faramir knows that to build, to heal and to nurture the earth is what we fight for, and the reason why he and Sam the Gardener understand each other. In the Fourth Age Éowyn and Faramir, as the Princess and Prince of Ithilien, will heal the wounds that Sauron and the Witch-king inflicted on that land. Definitely an upgrade from anything life in Rohan would have offered her.
EXACTLY. People who think her giving up war once the battle is over makes her weak is exactly the kind of attitude Tolkien stood against. It goes far beyond gender.
What you said is exactly what I've been saying for years, and it's good to see I'm far from alone in these views on what makes Eowyn and Faramir's marriage such a great ending to their respective storylines.
And she overcomes her somewhat "daddy issues" she projects on Aragorn and opens up to someone who is a really good fit for her.
It's funny how people think that Éowyn becoming a spouse and doctor is feminine and submissive because it involves not sticking a sword in people's faces.
Tolkien himself had been a soldier and returned to England to be with his wife and work as a mild-mannered professor. He wasn't shooting Germans in the face any more. Why is this not submissive and feminine of him to do if you think that of Éowyn?
Surely the great bulk of the armed men of Gondor were no longer active in the military once the Mordor threat was neutralised. Only a smaller number of professional men-at-arms in the city guard and the frontier patrols would still have been marching around in armour. Éowyn did just the same as them and the vast majority of WW1 soldiers.
The love story between Eowyn and Faramir is one of my favoriates in the books. They are both people that have suffered greatly in the War of the Ring and the lead up to it, and they find solice and healing with eachother. I think people really miss that point when they're upset about Eowyn being married by the end. Faramir besides being a noble captain and brave warrior is also the only person to ask Eowyn what she wants rather than telling her what her duty is. There is also no pressure on her to accept him, as Faramir loves and respects Eowyn for who she is: "Even if you were the blissful queen of Gondor I would still love you."
@@AmyThePuddytatno one here said it was feminine and submissive. Not a single person.
The Theoden/Eowyn relationship is one of my favorite dynamics in the movies. They feel very human and real compared to everyone else. "I know your face" always gets me.
Yeah, Bernard Hill and Miranda Otto had great uncle-niece vibes!
Their relationship is massively improved upon in the films. I prefer the books overall, but these two in particular felt much closer and more loving on film.
The impression I always had was as a World War 1 veteran, Tolkien didn’t have a high opinion of people being hyper focused on claiming glory in war. Even if he did use the Rohirrim to play with Pagan ideas of glory in war.
My takeaway was always: war sucks no matter your gender. Being a healer is a more fulfilling role
And, when first he entered Gondor, Aragorn came as a Healer.
Winning glory was not very important in the 20th century, or even earlier in modern times, but Eowyn, like Achilles, did not live in the 20th century. Their views of war and glory were very different from ours. Achilles, for example, was given the choice to either go home, live a long life, and be forgotten, or to stay and fight and die and be always remembered, to win kleos (κλέος) in other words. He stayed. He got his wish, since we still remember him.
@@michaelsommers2356 I think you are right, however I also think that it would be surprising if Tolkein, whilst understanding the glory of war in a medieval/classical setting perfectly well, wasn't informed by his own experience. If we look at some of the other things he wrote there is an ambiguity towards 'glory' - when he writes about the Battle of Maldon, he focuses on servants searching through the piles of the dead. They may be 'glorious', but they are also corpses.
@@robincowley5823 Of course it's possible to understand a viewpoint without sharing it. I doubt that anyone today shares Achilles' values, but that does not mean that no one understands what they were. At the beginning of the American Civil War lots of men joined up at least in part for glory, but they were very quickly disabused of that notion.
It's been decades since I read "The Battle of Maldon", but I don't remember it begin about glory. What I remember is the implied criticism of Byrhtnoth for allowing the Vikings to cross the causeway. The modern view, though, seems to be that that was Byrhtnoth's best option, because if he did not fight them there, they could just sail a few miles down the coast and ravage that area, while if he fought and beat them here, no place would be ravaged. He didn't know in advance, of course, that he would lose the battle and be killed.
@@michaelsommers2356 The Battle of Maldon I was referring to was Tolkein's own work, not the original poem - Tolkein wrote a work in which low class Anglo-Saxons are searching through the dead after the battle.
I think what’s notable with Eowyn accepting the role of healer and servant is that Faramir also has that role. They are equals, as much as they can be in that world. She’s not submitting to him, he is simply showing her another, healthier path. One he himself also desires to walk. Anyway I love them ❤ this was a wonderful and nuanced breakdown of the differences in Eowyn’s characterization. Honestly I can’t choose between them: they’re both wonderful in different ways
That's such a profound point!
And above all, Tolkien has a major theme (fitting his theological views) of being a servant to others being of utmost importance, rather than dominating others as a Lord.
@@LordVader1094 yes! Absolutely. Eowyn isn’t given “the good ending for a woman” she’s given “the good ending for a person,” which is easy to lose sight of with all the baggage around gender, which is why it’s so important that Faramir gets it too. And Sam, best boy and savior of the world, is also a servant. Even Aragorn views his role as healer and servant (esp. see the houses of healing, where he won’t even enter the city officially but still appears as a healer), it just gets buried in his hero archetype a bit
After the war, everyone would have to become a healer, gardener, builder. Or become a bitter mercenary I guess...
@@Jess_of_the_Shire I don't think that is quite right. I think Eowyn and Faramir can fully be equal. In a way, her relationship to Faramir is a romantic version of her brother's to Aragorn. Eomer is a great warrior and a good and true man. Aragorn is a Numenorean.
Faramir, like his father, is more like a slightly less awesome version of Aragorn than he is like someone like Theoden or Eomer. Too much Numenorean in him. Recall, we are told that when they were younger, Denethor was as like to Aragorn as one of near kindred. And that Faramir is much like his father in the "blood of Numenor" thing. What she has done, so to speak, is married the second greatest man in the world.
We don't see this play out as we would if we saw more of their life together. For example, she will grow old and die decades before her husband.
I do think the scenes between Eowyn and Faramir are the best, and most heartwarming, in the book. And I did not find her transformation to be a stretch. You yourself quoted the key line. Her heart did not really change. She understood it better. And Faramir is perfect for her.
Eowyn was 18 to 21 years old, max 25, in the books. She is young, bitter, and in pain. She lived through her father being killed, her mother's death due to illness, her cousin being killed, her brother running off, and left as a caregiver for her dying and mentally idled/brainwashed uncle and king. Plus, she was at the mercy of Wormtongue and the corrupt and other court officials. She naturally wanted to be a man to have some self-agency/autonomy because she equated those 2 things with being a man.
"2995 Éowyn sister of Éomer born"
App. B
So 23 or 24.
Basically teenage angst.
@@Powerhaus88Not at all, son.
One very important angle that Tolkien portrays in the book through Eowyn's struggle and her eventual love of Faramir is the importance of humility. Tolkien's emphasis on the virtue and strength of humility is repeated throughout so many of his characters, most especially in Frodo and Sam. However, in Eowyn we see a powerful lesson learned: that pride can lead to hopelessness, yet humility leads to healing. This poignant portrayal is an important lesson for all of our lives. I have always loved how Tolkien managedsto hit me so close to home.
It’s important to remember that Eowyn believes Aragorn to be dead, to have thrown his life away on a mad journey through the paths of the dead, when she seeks death in battle as Dernhelm. This is part of the source of her despair.
Eowyn turning away from violence rings so true. When I’ve spoken to men and women who survived war, the best adjusted of them, often rather quickly, go home to marry and build a family. Eowyn does it, but so does faramir , so does Samwise. It seems like it is a very healing and human thing to do.
I thought Miranda did a good job. But the written scene is just amazing. "You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone if ye be not deathless, for living or dark undead, I will smite you if you touch him." Then she laughs and stabs him in the fucking face!!
It's badass in the movies, but it's so much more badass in the books
Nothing quite like laughing at upcoming violence!
@@sebastianevangelista4921 The Nazgul basically says she's doomed and she laughs at him. Very primeval, very Anglo-Saxon/Norse mythology.
@@pendragon2012 Tolkien sure did love all things Norse!
@@sebastianevangelista4921 And describing the laugh as the ringing of steel tells me it was more like cackling. So good.
People are always very surprised when I tell them the "I am no man" bit was in the book (albeit more eloquent).
that has to be the cheesiest line Tolkien ever wrote, though 😑
@@Sam_T2000 why? what else was she supposed to say?
@@Sam_T2000😂 oh sweet precious child smh
wasn't it no man am I?
@@Yamaazaka Yes, she said: „But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter.“
I love how Faramir in the books is the epitome of humility and that was just the remedy Eowyn needed to overcome her natural tendency of wanting glory and praise in an unhealthy sense.
"...Christian, male, Oxford professor, from the early 1900s..." who also: fought in the trenches of WWI, and in the middle of it married, and left his wife to return to the front; and who later wrote LOTR mostly under the shadow of WWII in which his children were fighting. People seem to forget that Tolkien was both a lover and a soldier; both are very relevant to these passages.
Then how exactly does that square with him wanting a woman to be on the frontlines? I mean, he wrote a character that espouses stupid beliefs, then instead of having her be humbled, he actually encourages this by making her a hero through some lawyer-ball shenanigan. And yes they are idiotic beliefs. "I'd rather be on the front lines! Dying in glory!" When has any man ever returned from the front lines saying it was worth it? That's a stupid notion you have before you actually have to do any killing or dying. It's fair that a character that has never seen battle may hold such a view, but in literally any other story that character is disabused of that notion as soon as they see battle. The author doesn't generally encourage that idea, I mean unless it's a propaganda piece that's actively trying to buoy up young men to die for some inane cause.
It's truly baffling to me, and frankly embarrassing to find out Tolkien was a feminist.
Embarrassed of a feminist. Hmm... so you dont love women and want to support them. Hmm... kinda gay bro@@keegobricks9734
@@keegobricks9734 Tolkien wasn't a feminist, something Jess says very clearly at the end of the video. And I think your reading of her character misses the point. Eowyn is meant to play into the shield maiden mythical archetype (and I've also heard a fun argument that her defeat of the Witch King was Tolkien's answer to Shakespeare's Macbeth prophesy ("none of woman born shall harm Macbeth" - the guy who kills him was born by c-section, thus arguably not "born" properly) - basically using wordplay and literal interpretation to lead to someone's downfall.) Eowyn longs for renown through doing great deeds and the way she sees to get it is battle. As she becomes overwhelmed by despair, she then wishes to die in battle. She kills the Witch King, sure - and then wakes up alive in the House's of Healing, with no way to continue to participate in the fight or get what she's looking for. She's then convinced that a peaceful life isn't pitiful, life is a gift, and what she really wants (and had given up on) was to be loved. Her happy ending is that she recognizes her earlier mindset was wrong and chooses peace and service, which Tolkien's Christian faith dictates as the higher calling for anyone.
Tolkien didn't want women on the front lines and Eowyn isn't rewarded for her despair.
@@keegobricks9734 eowyn's character wasn't a reflection on feminism in the book, and the movie was too shallow to say much. but even if it was you've got to give a historical context to it. 1969 man steps on the moon. 1976 woman can get a credit card without a husband's approval in the US. tolkien grew up when the only women working were working girls. women had duties. it wasn't until millions of men died in the first world war that the idea of letting women join the work force wasn't such a bad thing.
I don't think anyone these days would call you a feminist because you have women friends who work
Why was Eowyn on the front lines? Tolkin said he wanted to add to literature two moment that Shakespeare had set up but failed to deliver in Macbeth: A woman killing in the loophole "for none of woman born Shall harm Macbeth." and "Macbeth shall never vanquished be until Great Birnam Wood to high Dunsinane Hill Shall come against him". Macbeth is killed by a man delivered by c-section, after an army approaches hiding under branched cut from the woods, both of which are undeniably unsatisfying, especially in a play where lady Macbeth does kill. So he wrote the Ents marching and Eowyn killing, and Eowyn is designed working backwards from the question "why would a princess be on the battlefield?" in the same way the Ents' story arc are built from the question "why would trees march on the black army?" And both are built well.
Eowyn reminds me most of the Russian widows who sold their homes, bought tanks, and fought Germans, often because their whole family was dead. Their whole purpose became revenge and despair. The line "The women of this country learned long ago, those without swords can still die upon them." speaks to this. These women epitomize a unique kind of courage and agency among civilians who would otherwise be helpless victims. They fought back, often with great skill. But there is a kind of despair in someone who fights because they have nothing else left, and Eowyn's character speaks to that. Hers is a bold choice, but it's also the choice "die trying, or die not trying". To ignore how that's a limited choice is to ignore her story entirely. It's kind of like the savage last bite of a beheaded rattlesnake, called a death bite. A striking, powerful, hopeless despair.
This leads me to question of when a soldier (male or female) should stay out of combat. When ordered to. Yes, she was assigned that as a woman and no that's not fair, and yes she's absolutely right to call that out. Nonetheless, someone with integrity, military expertise, and royal authority has to evacuate the civilians. The king has to go with his army, for morale reasons. Wormtounge could not be trusted even if he was available. That leaves Eomer and Eowyn and I guess whoever took over when Eowyn abandoned her post. Aragorn's not wrong to tell her that AS A SOLDIER, her duty is her assigned post. He's not telling her she's not a real soldier. Obeying orders is inherently a soldier thing. He's not thrilled about his assignment, certain death in the paths of the dead, either, but he doesn't abandon it. But I'm okay with Tolkin letting her make a questionable choice, because his characters do that all the time.
She goes anyway, slays the witch king, and is badly wounded in her arm. Faramir recognizes her as a mighty warrior and an equal, and is still completely justified in telling her she should wait for her broken arm to heal before she engages in further swordfights. And with pointing out that if the war ends before then, he hopes she finds meaning in peacetime. Which she does, because he gives her hope and love and listens to her.
Is Tolkin a modern feminist? No, and that's okay! He clearly honors that strong women exist in war in the character of Eowyn, and in giving her a story arc that is a WHOLE PERSON, with strengths and flaws. It would have been so easy (and consistent) to let Eowyn sneak out and die in the last battle because she's already wounded, but he chose to say "a woman who chose to fight back can live in peace after the war" (and explicitly not to make her unmarriageable). And Faromir was the perfect character to give her that hope.
Tolkien disapproved of feminists (he says so explicitly in his letters), and he initially intended Eowyn to die in battle before the walls of Minas Tirith. His insight into how trapped she felt in Edoras, how courage and despair drove her to seek death in battle, the eucatastrophe of her triumph over the Witch King, and how she found healing and new purpose, all stem from his gradual recognition of her full humanity. It's a mark of his skill as a writer that he developed such a rich character, despite his political opinions. In a way, he followed where she led, and was rewarded with Eowyn, one of the great heroines of literature.
Based Tolkien
"Tolkien disapproved of feminists (he says so explicitly in his letters)" You need to substantiate that with a quote. Most of what I have seen on this is utter drivel from people pushing a pro or anti-feminist agenda and I suspect you are doing the same.
Tolkien is interesting because yes he’s traditional in his views of men and women having different roles, purposes, etc., but he also lets his characters become whole people.
Men hold hands and hug. They kiss each other’s heads. They cry. They talk about their feelings. They care for each other. They’re allowed to show qualities that we would identify as feminine today. And it makes them such deeper characters.
Through Eowyn, we see the opposite. She wants to fight too. She wants to show off her strength and fighting ability. She wants to be allowed to find purpose in death in battle like the men do and not wait to be overtaken.
She really just wants the right to be a whole person like the men are. And whatever reservations Tolkien had about feminism, I think he at least viewed women as whole people.
And once Eowyn won the right to be a whole person, she chooses to not be a fighter anymore. She doesn’t have to be. She’s found someone that respects her as a whole person and she has nothing to prove anymore. She can choose to be a healer; she’s not being forced to or told it’s her duty.
There’s an interesting paper on her by Dr Sara Brown called “Eowyn it was, and Dernhelm also”. There is some gender theory in that paper that is interesting, but is certainly nothing Tolkien would have thought about (or agreed with likely), but there are some points that I think really fit.
The idea is that Eowyn has been reduced to only being able to express her feminine side. So Dernhelm is her masculine side which she is forced to hide and can only express in secret. But in the moment she reveals herself to the witch king, she is casting aside the disguise and uniting the two sides of her into one whole. At the peak of her expression of what we might consider masculine energy, she declares herself a woman and gives the name Eowyn.
He was also a romantic, and it bothered him deeply that his wife didn’t share his passion for Beren and Luthien, whom he playfully alluded to as his wife and he.
Last time I was this early, Melkor was disrupting the song of creation
He has always been a Yoko Ono wannabe.
@@Anacronian lol I’ll never be able to look at either one the same again
no one's resd that book.man
..
The scene I love is the one they took out, but then added to the special editions is the rage of her bother. His scream of sadness as it turns to madness thinking she is dead is great.
My favourite part in the books, too. Hits like a truck every time.
Éomer arrives and finds his King, held dear like a father, lying dead. This is sad, but he died well and Éomer now needs to take up command.
So he hardens his resolve, turns around and sees his sister, who shouldn't even be there, also lying dead. This is too much, and he leads his troops in a rage-fuelled frontal assault (This is the part where they just shout "death", like in the movie) that leaves his army isolated and ripe for destruction by the countercharge of the Mûmakil.
11:00 the other thing is that in warrior societies like the Rohirrim, winning glory in battle and being remembered after death is the highest form of honor, so it's no wonder that Eowyn is so concerned with attaining that status
Eowyn -- Confined in the Houses of Healing and hating life with the same passion as Gollum hating the Sun and Moon.
Faramir upon seeing Eowyn: A chance for Faramir, Captain of Gondor, to show his quality.
Another parallel, I think, is how they both fell in battle and were absent for the end of it and went to hospital.
@@Snagprophet Yes! I feel so much of Eowyn and Faramir speaks to Tolkien's experience as a veteran from WW1. Many soldiers met and married nurses who tended to them, or formed friendships with others who were in sickbeds with them. Of course with them, they're both being healed and end up married.
I remember how exciting the Dernhelm reveal was for me when I first read it. I suspect if I had been older I would have picked up on some subtle hints, but 10 year olds are fairly easy to fool. I loved it.
The most overlooked aspect of both book and movie Eowyn is her single strike death blow on the winged fell beast. Aragorn notes "you have some skill with a blade" but no-one has seen it used in a battle context. Nobody else squared up to one of those beasts, although at the time all she desired was to die fighting as a soldier she still took it on. She's a hero and she's awesome and I think my favourite between book and movie version is book Eowyn simply due to the surprise factor as we didn't know who Dernhelm was untill the helmet came off.
This was very well done. Thank you. Characters like Eowyn remind me of the strong, complex and interesting women I’ve known as friends (and more) throughout my own life.
Miranda Otto's return as narrator is my strongest motivation to see the upcoming film War of the Rohirrim.
I had no idea, that's pretty cool.
Hard pass, look at the trailer. Just Mary Sue girlboss garbage. Where's Hama and Haleth? Where's Frealaf? Hard pass on that woke dumpster fire.
To know that beauty exists and be unable to perceive it...
At Christmas my family re-watched the trilogy. But because a year-long infection had rendered me nearly deaf I was only able to hear a severely amputated version of the score. Knowing and loving that music, and being robbed of its beauty nearly broke my heart. Thankfully my hearing has recovered and the world sings for me again.
You say so much in such few words. I think you have expressed one of the deep afflictions of this world: too many people unable to perceive the beauty that exists in its myriad forms. Thank you for sharing your story. I, a stranger, am so glad you have had a "happy ending."
@@RigelDeneb172 Thank you. I feel heard.
I always thought of Éowyn as having a bit of a duality in the book, between the empowerment of showing that a woman can indeed be the equal to a man, and fight for what she believes in just as fiercely, and the feeling of brokenness. A woman who fears a cage and the inability to gain valor and who sought her own death in battle.
In the end, I feel that this came to a head in the battle with the Witch King of Angmar, when she revealed herself, empowered as a woman standing between him and her uncle, the king. Protection of who and what she loved, regardless of whether she gained valor from it or not. After killing him, she seeks death still, and wakes in bitterness in hospital, with her mind in torment and Faramir helps her sort her feelings.
It can feel a bit rushed, but it's incredibly nuanced, as you said, and I always felt that her sense of purpose comes into focus, and the duality of her character comes together, and she's whole for the first time. Because she knows that she doesn't have to die to be free of a cage, and that she can be empowered with Faramir, who sees and loves her for who she is, not as the woman other men might have wanted her to be.
As much as Theoden's death in the movie really worked with Eowyn, I still love how the book handled it. When theoden comes to and sees Merry looking down on him, his first thought is to apologize that he'll never get to keep his promise to let Merry yap and nerd out to him about tobacco varieties and cultivars. And then he tells Merry to think of him when he smokes his pipe, and for a while after, Merry can't out of grief. Made me cry like a baby when i first read it.
This is hands down, the best Tolkien channel.
Éowyn and Éomer lost their parents when they were children. Éowyn probably had few if any women around her, just a bunch of men. Imagine living as a woman without any female figure to be inspired by during all your life. To make things worse the rohirrim were absolute barbarians who knew nothing to live for other than war and horses, Éowyn had only heard songs of killing and war during her entire life! Then, obviously she would wish to take part in this! But it was always denied to her, she was doomed to wait upon an old sick man whom she loved as a father, and her part was utterly ignoble.
As a man who was raised surrounded by women, I say that the inverse of this experience is terrible, I can understand her plight through personal experience, and I'm very sorry for her.
Then she went to the houses of healing, there she saw men and women saving lives, learned in lore and history, man and women who knew more of life than slaying and war. And then she met Faramir, a man whom according to Éowyn herself:"no rider of the mark could outmatch in battle". He was a tall gigachad who was also gentle and learned, and he offered her another perspective of life, one which she could have peace and freedom beyond battle.
This is a great angle!
The only thing I disagree with is calling the Rohirrim barbarians: Theirs was a violent society due to necessity, as that violence was channeled against Mordor and Isengard; They valued and loved their horses, song and poetry, treasured family, no less than the folk of Gondor.
I'd say they're more Pagan/earthy, but not barbaric in the way that, say, the Orcs or the evil men Saruman employed, are.
Rohirrim weren’t barbarians, but rather a violent culture cause they needed to be to survive. Outside of that, they were pretty civilized.
Well said, my friend!
Maybe by my own interpretation; the book scene felt like a “she was destined to be there”. Like she wanted to go, she knew had had to fight.
And with the disapproval of her father (edit: her uncle), she had to sneak herself into the battlefield. Many coincidences (or rather providence?) later, she ends up slaying Mr. Witch King.
Providence is very relevant to Christians, like me, and I just assume that Tolkien wrote it that way for a reason.
That's a great point!
Acts of Providence are all over the books, and to a lesser extent, the movies, too. I had a friend who hadn’t read the books, and didn’t Ike the movies very much because he thought there were too many conveniences and happy accidents. When I explained to him that that probably carried over from the books, where part of Tolkien’s point was to depict the workings of divine will in the world, he decided he wouldn’t like the books, either. To my knowledge, he never read them.
His loss, IMO.
Just a small nitpick: Théoden is her uncle, not her father (who died when she was 7 years old).
@@vinnycordeirooh for sure! Thanks for the correction! 🙂
the first time i read the books, Dernhelm being revealed as Eowyn is one of the most magical surprises for me. that was lost in the movie
she could set down her sword for having killed the witch king, she could achieve no greater glory. she'd followed that path to it's end and then see's how else she may grow
Absolutely, that moment is stunning. I could see how it would be tough to make Miranda Otto really look like a man in close-up shots, but the surprise is so cool in the books
@@Jess_of_the_Shire Yeah it's always interesting to think about how big reveals are so much easier to pull off on the page than in a medium that requires our eyes and ears. To be fair though everyone was so concerned with the impending battle that I don't think that anyone was paying too close attention to one soldier wearing a face-concealing helmet.
The book version is by far the superior one, but then, that is true for the other characters as well, for all the reasons Jess explains in the video; the time and space available to the author that the film writer doesn't have.
Tolkien's work is full of people discovering that their highest calling is to serve and heal others, even to the point of self-sacrifice. Aragon knows that is who he is. It is how Gandalf keeps on track. And Saruman falls by straying from it.
The first scene with Eowyn and Theoden always reminds me a bit of King Lear and his daughter Cordelia, which is funny given how Tolkien felt about Shakespeare.
That's a stellar comparison!
The bit about the Witch King not being killed by a man is right out of the Scottish Play, too. The title character could not be killed by a man of woman born, but MacDuff was from his mother's womb untimely ripped. (TH-cam is a sort-of theater, so one must be careful about curses.)
I m not so sure if Tolkien feelings about Shakespeare are due to Tolkiens opinion about Shakespeare's ability as a writer, or about the adulation of others as the GOAT.
@@michaelsommers2356 Hot potato, orchestra stalls, Puck will make amends!
@@TolkienTapestry-cq5vk What is that?
As always, great in-depth character analysis! As a male, I always liked her character in the movies. Her triumph was ridiculously satisfying, and the pairing with such a disgraced and noble character like Faramir was the icing on the cake, for both their sakes lol 😂
This is such a deep, nuanced and compelling take on the complex in her ambition and complicated in her grief character of Eowyn, I absolutely love it, thank you, Jess! I definitely prefer the book Eowyn, as I find her not only more interesting to observe, but also way more relatable. She is one of my best loved characters, and following her journey in the book was incredibly healing for me on every read. Yet I agree that the film Eowyn also has her own important role and her merit. However, I don’t really like that the film Eowyn was made overtly vulnerable right from the get go, as the whole point of her character arc was in her being out of touch with her own emotional state in the beginning (which is described as her appearing cold on the outside), and then slowly and painfully getting back in touch with it - which results in her swaying first to the very bottom of the grief that she carried, and then, finally starting an upward spiral towards inner healing and peace. And, gosh, this is such an incredibly beautiful twist when the one with no hope for herself decides to become the bringer of hope for others…
One issue that the movie glosses over (out of necessity) is that Eowyn could not have delivered the death blow to the Witch King if Merry had not first struck him with the blade from the Barrow Downs - the blade that was imbued with magic for exactly that purpose by the smiths of Arnor, though it would not be put to its intended use for millennia.
The text describes the blade as having broken the spell that bound the wraith's spirit to his sinews, the implication being that it rendered him vulnerable to Eowyn's strike (which, in the book, takes the form of a beheading - a much more exciting fight scene IMO than the film version.)
This does not detract from her accomplishment, but I think it gets overlooked that "I am no man" could have been said equally by Eowyn (a woman), and by Merry (a hobbit).
It was, in fact, a team effort.
Double the stunting on Shakespeare.
Probably the biggest point that people fail to notice (or don't know about at all)
Was it really magic? Or was it the power of Will? Is there a difference?
@@specialnewb9821 - In Tolkien's world, providence plays a significant part, and the thing about the blade is actually in the text though it's easy to overlook.
Eowyn’s laughter at the Witch King tells us so much about her head space. In my head it’s a sad laugh, a laugh of disbelief, a scared and frustrated laugh, a laugh of dissonance. But it’s also a boss move in a way- to laugh at such a powerful figure because you’re starting to recognize it’s ultimately powerless.
Basically the entire sequence of the ride of the rohirrim in both the text, and in the films ultimately leaves me with water eyes at best. Tolkien had a way of writing about a battle that no one else captures, probably because he has experience to draw on, and the result is this glorious, and ugly thing that is as fun to read as it is sorrowful. Eomers cries of grief when he sees his king and sister dead, and his heedless charge back into battle are so impactful that it feels like I'm reading it for the first time every time.
Death, Death, Death take us all…..
One thing missed in the video, the sorta cheer up monologue that was done by Faramir in the books at the end, was sorta done by Aragorn in the movies way earlier, when Eowyn speak of being caged and all he answer that it wouldn't be her fate, he basically tells her he believes in her, unlike the books where it may come off rather instead somewhat as pity instead, while yea later he tried to prevent her from fighting, he still sort of steal Faramir's thunder from in the books.
Thank you so much for zeroing in on the Eowyn character in. this video. Intuitively I recognized the story arcs she undergoes both in the book and the movie, but it was just wonderful to hear you delve deep into the character. From the perspective of being a man, Eowyn has always by far been my favorite (accessible) female character in LOTR. Galadreil is of course utterly extraordinary, but simply inaccessible to me, mortal as I am.
I really love your highly detailed comparisons of Tolkien characters, book vs. film. Always shows me nuances I had not noticed before. Thank you!
I love the book version of Eowyn better, but I think the movie version was just as amazing. I’m glad that we have both versions because we get to have conversations like this. Great video.
Your reading of Faramir's lines to Eowyn are so much better than the voice actor that said them in the 1980 BBC radio play. This is the first time that those lines felt real to me.
"I also saw what you saw, Eomer. There are few things in this world that bring a man more shame than to behold the love of a woman so fair that cannot be returned. But I tell you truly that she loves you more than me."
One thing I love about Eowyn in the movies is despite being strong and brave she still shows fear (all the protagonists do) whereas when characters have no fear or doubt it usually makes the film feel like every battle is trivial
Eowyn was one of the most relatable characters for me & I’m a straight, white guy who’s always been wary of feminism-Like most -isms, it means too many different things to do many different people for me to trust it.
I can totally relate to Eowyn’s frustrated ambitions, however. I’m sort of a support character by nature, I think. I may not have main character energy but that doesn’t mean I don’t get frustrated when I’m reduced to being a bit player in the story of my own life. It sucks, man.
And requited love? I know a little about that, too.
Eowyn’s frustrated, lonely & feels a responsibility to due her duty. She just wants something for herself is all. Who hasn’t felt that way at some point?
Éowyn is one of my favourite characters in both book and movie, these days reminding me of someone very dear to me. I am extremely grateful that PJ did not just simply turn her into a boss-girl and I quietly pity the fools laughing at her getting "only 2. place" with Faramir.
I've had never thought of movie Eowyn as just wanting to prove girl power. Her comparison to Merry made me buy the premise that she wanted to help and protect her people yet she is not taken seriously, which was relatable and Will remain relatable intil I'm muscly enough
To quote another franchise "Wars not make one great."
Eowyn's part in the book was probably responsible for a good deal of the modern version of the fantasy trope of the shieldmaiden... thus the tropes that infected the screenwriting of the movie had less of an effect on her. I was not thrilled with the movie's execution of most of her big scenes, but Otto was great and she did still get to do her thing, which is one of my favorite parts of the book to read. It was just not quite as written.
25:07 I think something to remember as well is that there is also a male character who is defined by their role as a servant. Sam. People never seem to think of Sam being a humble gardener as a negative thing, so why do people think that it should be with Eowyn? Sam's love of "all things that grow" plays a huge role in helping the Shire to heal, and he is more renowned for this and his role as mayor by his fellow hobbits for this then he ever is for his deeds battle. Humility and service to others is one of the biggest themes present throughout LotR. And that doesn't change based on whether the character is male or female. That is the whole point of the hobbits being the hero's of the story and of how the Ring represents how the desires for strength, power or glory can corrupt you.
Eowyn's story is also in many ways about how often it takes more courage to live then to die. She was afraid of living a life without renown. And I believe her story is about overcoming that fear. Rejecting her more selfish desire to die and replacing it with a life of helping others.
The way people have a double standard towards Eowyn has always been annoying to me. If a male character ended his story with laying down his weapons and forsaking violence, after spending most of the book looking for and idealizing those things, to seek a peaceful life to build a family he'd be hailed as one of the most realistic and inspirational role models in fiction. But when a lady does it she's... submitting to the patriarchy?
I always thought Eowin putting down her sword after the war ended was the most sensible thing in the world. The enemy was vanquished and it was a time to heal so she turned her energy to that path. Is there anything more pitiful than a swaggering soldier who fails to recognize that his time has passed? I would have hated it if Eowin had turned into that character.
Third-wave feminists aren't the brightest bunch and will see le evil patriarchy behind every bush.
THIS. THIS is exactly what I am saying. I am not kidding when I say that IT FRUSTRATES me when I ask "Well, if you don't like Eowyn settling down with Faramir, what should she be doing then?" to someone who hated Eowyn becoming a healer and a lady.
And they'll respond: "bE a CaPtAiN or whatever military leader" as if it's the obvious answer. I think it's coming from this defensive extreme feminist fantasy where Eowyn being an idealized warrior is their idea of peak feminism.😂
@@queenberuthiel5469 I enjoyed Xena Warrior Princess as much as the next person, but that’s not Eowin. 🤪
Yes I am constantly trying to explain this to people lol
Great video! Eowyn is one of my favorite characters, if not my favorite, from the books. For me, the movies missed a chance to really show her complexity. The movie is good, but it focuses mainly on her struggle to make it as a woman in a man's world. Definitely an important part of her character, but it's just a part, not the whole. Book Eowyn certainly struggles with her role in the male-driven world, but she also has great loyalty to her house and family, desires for great deeds and glory in battle, a good degree of despair/depression, and a desire to prove herself worthy. She is so interesting and cool, and it all comes to a head when she faces the witch king.
In the book - it's a perfectly written couple of paragraphs. Her loyalty, strength, ability, despair, love for her family, and yes her frustration of being a woman in a man's world, are all on full display. It's beautiful. In the movie, we get "I am no man - arrrght!"....just the feminism, nothing more complex or interesting than that. Not bad, it just could have been so much more, IMO.
The emotions that Miranda Otto showcases as an actor while signing the funeral dirge for Theodred are amazing as well. This scene is totally a movie storyline and nothing from the book because, in the book version, Theodred is buried at the Fords of Isen by Grimbold.
I admired Eowyn in the books and in the movie. I don't believe that they could have cast it any better than Miranda Otto. She makes a perfect Saxon Princess and except for the horses the Rohirrim are based on the Anglo-Saxons.
The way I saw it was that Eowyn wanted to do these great deeds to prove, if only to herself, that she could. And the conversations with Faramir allowed her to see that there was an alternative to death in battle, and that she'd be no less renowned because of it.
I feel the sentance '..her heart changed, or perhaps she understood it ' is so important, and often overlooked by modern commentators.
Yet, despite Eowyn's disagreement with Aragorn, he turned out to be right when he told her her fate was not to be caged. For instead of finding her peace or fate on the battlefield, she found it as the equal partner of Faramir, a mighty warrior who wanted peace rather than glory.
This video inspired me to go back and re-read the books after years. Only halfway through fellowship but holy shit did I miss the feeling I only get reading the books. Newish to the channel, can’t wait to go back and watch your past videos as I’m reading!
Jess, I love this video, BUT I think that far too many of us gloss over how much Eowyn was willing to risk in following the boys to war.
Aragorn himself highlights this - Eowyn was not just being assigned the task of keeping house, finding beds for the warriors and then getting burned with the house once the men no longer need it...
Once Theoden decides to ride to war, and Eomer as Third Marshall of the Riddermark cannot be spared from the fighting, someone has to stay behind to run things! Eowyn is designated as ruler, because "all love her". She ran Theoden's household, she likely ran the city when Wormtongue didn't care about the details of a functioning government, and someone needed to keep the civilians safe, and even make military decisions regarding the roving bands of orcs and Dunlendings that might assault outlying farms or try to take Dunharrow (Edoras was abandoned and there had been some "hard words" but Eowyn herself had diffused the situation once the people were installed in the hills - Helm's Deep likely still held the bulk of the families from the Westfold and those walking wounded fighters who stayed behind to protect the keep and guard the Fords of Isen with the help of the Ents and the Huorns). When Aragorn tried to remind her of this, she in turn tried to justify her position (and tried to not sound petulant, even in her own ears)...Aragorn wasn't being hypocritical, because he couldn't take her along on his side quest, WITHOUT LEAVE OF HER KING/UNCLE AND/OR HER BROTHER, since she was the designated leader of the realm in their absence! So off he went, to certain death, so she thought, while she brooded on her wrongs and then snuck away, disguised as Dernhelm, to what we would call today, 'suicide by cop'. She can't have the love of the first high born stranger that she has ever seen who at least understands what she's trying to say, even if he doesn't agree? Screw that! She'll take some Rider's place in battle, kill every orc she can trample until her luck and skill runs out. That her brother will also get suicidally homicidal when he thinks she dead, well, she didn't think of that!
Someone took charge in her absence, and presumably someone trustworthy, one of the elders or wounded captains, and as the Lords of Gondor left Minas Tirith as well manned as before the battle, again, some Captain like Erkenbrand most likely stayed behind to command the Rohirrim and do battle with the last army of orcs, and to advise the refugees when they could return to Edoras.
Either way, nothing more was said about Eowyn going AWOL, so a 'no harm no foul' and the end. There's a military precident for that...if you disobey an order, but in so doing, you win the battle/mission/war, you get a medal instead of a court martial. But only if you win!
Yes! Eowyn leaves her whole people exposed when she just .... wanders off. Because, "it's not fair!" Her whole story is a study in 'all's well that ends well', but she's terribly irresponsible the whole way through, and betrays the trust of king, kin, and community.
One of the main themes of the book is the sense of duty. The embodiment of duty is Aragorn, who never strays from the path that destiny has set before him. Eowyn, in considering her position and comparing herself to men, doesn't take duty into account, thinking that men can do whatever they want. Aragorn responds that any man in her place (as the leader of the refugees) would be responsible and would not be able to abandon his position and duty. Of course, Eowyn's sense of duty, or lack of it, is just a small part of her story.
Few remember Eomer in the story of Eowyn, who is almost like her twin brother in terms of their psyche. Eomer saved himself from depression because he wasn't confined to the court and had his masculine warrior activities on the plains beneath the sun, which Gandalf accurately observed. However, Eomer was not far from despair and the desire for death, as shown by his reckless behavior after discovering the king and his sister lying on the battlefield.
Perhaps it was precisely because of Eomer and her close brotherly bond with him that Eowyn thought she could find salvation in masculine activities and glory on the battlefield.
my favorite eowyn part of the movie was when she scoops up merry 'ride with me.' i tear up just remembering it
It took me many years myself to understand Eowyn's character arc. 14 year old me loved Eowyn as the warrior maiden riding into battle, and 14 year old me could not understand why she gave it all to be with Faramir. Then 35 year old me reread the books and saw what 14 year old me missed: Eowyn was not written as an icon or symbol as many women are written in modern media but always she was a fully developed character with goals and motivations. I was only focused on seeing her on the Battle field rather than reasons she was there in the first place.
Same. When I am younger, I love physically strong, bold, brave heroines and see Eowyn as an ideal feminist icon but now, I learn to appreciate her more as a character. She's flawed because she also have her bitter, cold, pessimestic side but she can also self-reflect and change her view on life. I LOVE her even more.
appreciating her and Faramir's love story is another thing that made me appreciate LOTR even more. Faramir, the noble captain of Gondor, truly loves Eowyn for who she is, not for her station, her beauty, or her valorous deeds. I think what won Eowyn more than anything is Faramir is the fist person to ask her what she truly wants rather than telling her what her duty is. Becuase they both have to stay in the Houses of Healing due to their injuries they both have to endure the waiting together to see is Sauron was defeated or "death in battle may come to us all yet, willing or unwilling." Both of them have endured hardship ans darkness before but now they can do it together becuase as human we are made for eachother.
@@jodieg6318
I love them as a couple and as individual characters. I know that they just met and know each other for a short span of time but to me, they naturally develop as a couple. 😅 Idk, they just make sense to be together. 😂
Eowyn was my favorite character in the books, and for a long time I did not fully understand why--that she was so strong, so brave, so able and fierce, a great hero of the age despite the expectations of her sex, but also she found love and peace with someone was the yin to her yang. She was everything.
In the movie, I still loved her, adored her relationship with Merry, LOATHED the whole cooking scene, liked very much how we got to see her interact with others including Wormtongue, and it was a moment of glory for her to slay the Witch King and speak with her uncle at the end.
Eowyn is one of the few characters in the books that has an arc. Certainly the only woman with one.
Eowyn is my favorite character in Lord of the Rings. I named my cat after her (which perplexes the vet any time I make an appointment and have to spell the name out). I love her confrontation with the Witch-king and wish they had kept the full speech in the movie. Though I understand why they went with the pithier "I am no man!"
Let's not forget that a blade from the Barrow Downs in the hands of a Hobbit is what made the witch King vulnerable to death. It makes her make a lot more sense of she's broken and that's why she keeps fighting. I pity her and I know she would hate that.
RIP Bernard Hill
!!!
While I love both interpretations of the character, I love book Eowyn more, precisely because of the nuances of character you describe here.
Tolkien isn't particularly subtle in showing his feelings about how he feels that service to others is the true heart of heroism, as opposed to doing great deeds of renown.
Compare and contrast Eowyn's motivations and journey to Sam's, for example.
Wish I could up vote this 1000 times.
I always thought the prophecy about how "no mortal man" will stop the Witch King was the kind of prophecy that a mediocre court magician would come up with to appease his abusive boss. In a world where besides Men there are Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Ents, Orcs, immortal Wizards, and of course Eowyn, saying no man will hurt you leaves a lot of other people free to stab you in the face. And without taking anything away from Eowyn, Merry (also not a "man") did his part in that fight. If I were given a prophecy like that I would not be as confident as the Witch King was.
greywulf. It is common among Tolkien Scholars to Macbeth and the prophecy that no man born of woman .... Tolkien left the battle against the witch King to a human. Shakespeare got past that prophecy by cesarean section. I think Tolkien enjoyed one-upping Shakespeare when it came to some of his plots.
Tolkien meant humans to be the main actors. In its original context the "prophecy" should have been interpreted more like advice that the Witch-King was a coward who would not engage in a fair fight.
@@josephfisher426 _"Tolkien meant humans to be the main actors."_
Not at all. The hobbits are the central characters of the novel. There is hardly a scene in which a hobbit does not appear. The first sentence of the Prologue says, "This book is largely concerned with Hobbits ... ." I'd agree that the movies turned the hobbits into little more than comic sidekicks, but that is not true of the books. Do you have actual evidence to the contrary?
@@michaelsommers2356 I should have said regular mortals (as opposed to Dwarves). Hobbits are bantam-sized Men... apparently they qualify differently in Men's eyes because they are small, but they do not seem to be a different species, as it were. One of the Tolkiens does summarize somewhere, with regard to the other species, not to Hobbits, that the Third and Fourth Ages are those of Men.
It was an Elf who uttered the prophecy millenia before, something like, "for far away is his fate, and not by the hand of man will he fall." Angmar learned of it and liked it too much.
When you read Faramir's lines from the book my first thought was "Damn, Faramir is smooth!"
I've taken to watching video essays in my spare time. Almost as much as I watch friendlyjordies' MAFS reviews. I've only just discovered your channel tonight - this is one of the best video essays I've ever seen! :D
As someone who's figuring out how to suitably include female characters in their writing, I REALLY enjoyed your summary of Eowyn as not a feminist character - but still a beautifully written one! Your description of her story's conclusion - from shieldmaiden to healer and being of service - kinda reminded me of Kratos's monologue in Valhalla. When he realises the difference between being a "servant" and being "of service".
In the books Eowyn rides in the guise of Dernhelm, meaning secret helm, or hidden helm. I don't remember if that came directly from Anglo Saxon or the language Tolkien created.
I always find your commentaries interesting and illuminating. Thanks a lot.
I never imagined that Éowyn in the books never fought in a battle again as there were still lots of enemies to face but rather that it simply no longer was her only purpose.
Anyone who has fought on a battlefield can see exactly the same behavior in Eowyn as the fresh faced troops who have never seen war. They don't know the horrors just yet. They've never spilled blood nor watched their friends die or be injured. In the books she wants the same kind of fame as many of the heroes written in song and poem. But she doesn't have the same obligations as the men nor the pressures to do such things. It's why the Charge of the Rohirrim hits differently when you realize what's happening. Every man on that field knew they were going to die. They would sell their lives at a high cost to the Orc army in order to do as much damage as possible in order to provide relief for the city defenders. They knew that's what duty and honor demanded of them, Eowyn did not. I'll give her credit that she rode anyway but it was for selfish reasons.
"I AM NO MAN!" is one of the most powerful moments ever on cinrmas. I still have chills even though I watch the trilogy every December, as one should.
19:02 Damn, when you read Eowin's line to The Lich King, I got crazy chills.
The books, the films, and without doubt, Jess's analyses ... All recognisable masterpieces deserving equal respect. I have learned and reconsidered so so much since watching and carefully listening to this channel - It's been like seeing a picture turning from grey scale to full technicolour. Every episode an education and a real pleasure !!
Another thing which was woefully overlooked was her declaration of and concern for Merry, declaring his valiant act and that he should be carried into the city as a hero. Always moved me to tears, every time I read and re-read the tale. Probably 20 times in 52 years. I’m due again….
Book Eowyn for me, since I knew that version first. But I would also say that I think the character failings of movie Eowyn were lessened by Miranda Otto's admirable performance, and I don't think she was handled as poorly as some of the other characters. As you say, Tolkien had an predictably outmoded mindset which the films seem to downplay as much as they can, though sometimes substituing for it a modern view which is not necessarily in keeping with the idea of LotR as a "discovered" historical account, meant to reflect the ideas of a much earlier age. As always, you've made quite a few interesting and useful observations about the differences between the two works, and a nice additon to the series.
i always liked eowyn but i had a friend who absolutely despised her, and for the dumbest reason too. the friend was doing the whole swordfight thing so thinking back she should've liked her. the reason she didn't? she adored arwen and arwen with aragorn, and eowyn was crushing on him and "trying to get inbetween them". that's it, that was her reason. bonkers.
It's been about 25 years since I read the books. I appreciate your breakdowns and comparisons. Keep up the great videos.
Brilliant! Again, "I don't disagree on any particular point." However, it is interesting to me that in this matter there is also woven some of that cyclical storytelling that you brought up in talking about Dune:
Consider the Valar, particularly Orome the Hunter and Tulkas (who came late to middle earth to aid the others, because sometimes even the gods call for backup). These were powerful spirits, perhaps prone to the same temptations as Melkor. They could have remained safe with the Host of Heaven and hummed along with the music, but they CHOSE to take their part in the very thick of worldly events, to guide and protect the creatures of creation against the disharmony of Melkor. In doing so, they embraced whatever doubts or sorrows they would find, whether of the enemy's make or of their own doubts and dangerous ambitions -- consider the temptation of Aule and the response of Yvanna to balance out their realms of care and responsibility.
Consider those of the High Elves like Galadriel who could have remained in bliss in Valinor, but who set out on the long march across the northern coasts (because they didn't/wouldn't take part in the kin-slaying) and came to middle earth against the decree of the Valar, to stop Melkor from destroying or perverting all life into spiritual darkness. They embraced a potentially hopeless fight, what Galadriel called "The Long Defeat" to come to the aid of others out of sheer love for life wherever they might find it.
Consider the Faithful of Numenor, who could have followed the fate of their people according to the authority of the King Ar-Pharazon seeking immortality; and accepted that cage of authority and law until its decadence and ambition led them all to ruin on the shores of Aman. Instead, Elendil and his followers fled to middle earth as exiles, accepting their fate as mortal men, and set up bulwark kingdoms against the return of evil. Then, when Sauron returned after the sinking of Numenor, they fought to the death alongside their found allies against the inevitable power of the Dark Lord and his One Ring.
Consider particularly Aragorn himself, 16th chieftain of the Dunedain, a dynasty that for centuries had been dedicated to a purely defensive holding action to resist the evil ones and protect the descendants of their former subjects. It was not "given to him" to claim the throne of Elendil, and yet he chose to expose himself as the last of his line, to risk death against the Dark Lord himself in a mad gamble to end the threat that was greater than he. He was called Estel, "Hope," and yet it was not with hope but with mad determination against the odds to risk all on whatever power remained in him from nobler ancestors to change the very nature of life in middle-earth.
Then, after all these cycles, consider Eowyn. Scion of Eorl, child of the relentless warriors who had secured the borders of Gonder when they migrated to the realm, inheritor of all the northmen's cold fury... and yet it was not "given to her" not required that she ride to the relief of her people's allies. Nonetheless, she felt the Call. She took personal responsibility for seeing that the commission of her kind was fulfilled in history. Then, with the laughter of Glorfindel ringing in the ears of history, she fulfilled it. "I am no man!" she shouted, and the chief servent of Sauron was struck down in the field, and his forces were thrown in such disarray that the arrival of the armies of the south (with Aragorn) were enough to win the battle after all.
After that, she did what the cycles of storytelling said such heroes could do. The Valar banished Melkor, and they keep their blessing upon their home Valinor in the West. After the fall of Melkor, Galadriel kept watch and guardianship of Laurelindorinan and made it prosper as a force against the servants of evill, until even she could return to Valinor herself, having won the long battle after all. The Numenorians continued in their accepted mortality as Dunedain, and Aragorn reunited the ancient lines that would endure beyond what he knew would be his lifetime, trusting his children to continue the fate of the people. Thus it is only proper that Eowyn of the Rohirrim, after fulfilling the fate of her people to honorably fight and join with the people of Gondor, would herself aid and join with their High Steward Faramir and work towards the healing and blossoming of the lands of men (and living in the beautiful gardens of Ithilien) in later days.
Eowyn did not "submit" to anything. She fulfilled a destiny and then received the rewards of the fate and love that comes after. Because she was so willing to suffer and even die while fighting with all her honorable will, she proved herself worthy to be elevated to a greater status than just warrrior. She became a guardian of the future of the people enjoined. The Valar joined with middle-earth and its creatures. The best of elves joined with the plight of those who suffered from Melkor's destructions. The Faithful joined with their fate to be bound to the mortal lands. Aragorn joined with the scattered kingdoms and his own older cousins to renew the world. Eowyn joined with the noblest of men -- a man who had refused even the One Ring itself -- to heal and protect the future of those lands.
Thus the cycle of the Call and the answering continues throughout history and fate. Tolkien himself could have kept his position in academia rather than volunteer to fight in the trenches, but he also heard the Call of joining in the fates of foreign lands, and he answered. For his reward, he was able to join with his one love, Edith, and to this love he dedicated the heart of his literary works for the rest of his mortal life, and upon their gravestones is written "Beren and Luthien." He knew all too well the cycle of potential pain and sacrifice, and the joys of rejoining. In Tolkien's world, the Garden is the ideal, and the gardener the most noble of undertakings, and with this the greatest of heroes are rewarded.
Another case in point, enter Sam Gamgee the Gardener, and the Shire itself, of which it was said (approx), "It must be a blessed land indeed, where gardeners are held in such high esteem."
Overall, for a while, Eowyn was infatuated with Aragorn because she recognized somewhat of HERSELF in him, and of them both in older tales. However, in the end, she loved Faramir, because the two of them were equals in a generation of helping the world transition as best it could into the next age of joining. They both remembered the inherited loyalties and nobilities of the past, but they dedicated themselves to protecting the world into the future. They had both ridden out against the worst of evils they could find, without hope of survival, and yet "Hope" had brought them together for a task worthy of their faithfulness. Such are the cycles of storytelling :)
It’s not surprising at all that her story resolution would circle back to the value of service. The central themes of LotR surround service-specifically, loyalty and duty, the attraction of followers to a leader, and the actions of that leader towards their followers that make them worth following. And how peers can fulfill both roles for each other.
This is why I’m kinda surprised it still connects with people so much these days. We may live in a service economy, but we do not live in a service society. We’re highly individualistic and ambitious, with some kind of autonomy being arguably the main goal in life for most people. And the resentment against bosses has reached an all-time high.
It’s also why I tell people my brother appreciates LotR more than I do. My favorite character is almost always “the wise old man,” and Gandalf is no exception. But his favorite characters are Théoden, the self-sacrificing king, and Samwise, the ever-loyal servant.
She's feminist in many ways, but I think people miss that more than that, she's a representation of the war veteran experience through Tolkien's eyes. She goes from yearning for war and being practically suicidal, to realizing what's more important and finding completion in rebuilding after the fighting is done rather than dying hopeless upon the field.
She has one of the biggest and most thematic arcs from start to finish in the books imo. Equal to Frodo, in that Frodo is the other side of the veteran experience where you're eternally marred by PTSD and everything you tried to protect is still unavoidably damaged by the war.
I like how in the books she learns that it's not about finding glory
Great video! When I first read LOTR, before having seen the movies, I saw Éowyn as a real fist pumping, girl power character, because of that moment with the witch king. I especially love this line “Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!" and I read that laugh like steel as her showing everyone she was a bad ass. I was just a kid, so I missed the nuance of the depression she was in. It's so subtly layered in. Well, now that I think about it, there was tons of stuff I didn't pick up on first time through. lol. But I am compelled to read LOTR once a year because of that reason. I always find new things!
Good timing, and welcome back. Your videos provide a necessary diversion from daily tedium and more serious issues.
Loving arwen for her beauty, commitment, and feats from FOTR, Eowyn felt like a romantic interest that was never going to happen and that she settled for Faramir, (from a laymans perspective). I love the depth and personal growth she has in the book. Great video and thank you Jess. I love this and the video on Boromir.
She truly is one of my favorite characters after reading the books. Not appreciated enough I think.
While quite different, I do love both characterizations of Éowyn, I feel they're deeply important in different ways and contribute heavily to the tone of both the books and the film adaptations. As a woman who also loves Tolkien I am so happy to have found your channel, your work is easily my favourite and I always look forward to your videos! Intentionally or not you've created such a wonderful space for everyone to appreciate his work, fairy tales and the craft of story telling, it's very touching.
Great video breakdown of Eowyn
You made a point about Eowyn stepping back into a more submissive role, and being a servant because Faramir told her, but I didn’t really get that vibe.
It felt more like he counselled her to turn from her suicidal drive and she finally understood this, especially in the light of her war experience and seeing the chance for a higher calling in Faramir
I really love that Eowyn’s arc in the book *doesn’t* revolve around her being a woman. Like, female empowerment stories are great, but I personally find it to be better representation for women to have a female character with an arc about something non-gender specific. Having so many female characters be defined by their gender gets tiresome
I agree. It makes her character more relatable honestly.
One thing that I would like to point out in defence of Tolkien, is that at the end. Everyone let down their swords and become a healer, a nurturer, a pacifist.
Because Tolkien valued those things above valor and warfare
I don't think there was a greater future, a better fate, that Tolkien could give any character he wrote than healer and gardener.
'i'd rather be a warrior in a garden than a gardner in a war'...but samwise did all right!
I always considered Éowyn as kind of naive and spoiled. She was a noblewoman in the household of the king, after all. She saw Aragorn, argueably the first strange man she found attractive and she immediatly developed a deep crush she mistook for deep love.
Then there was her deep desire to accomplish great deeds. In the context of the books, of what inspired them and their general setting, this means deeds that will bring fame, that will be sung of in years to come. She envys the men who get this chance when they ride into battle and fails to see what strength and glory there is beyond battle. Compare it with Galadriel or Arwen who embrace their female power and whose contribution to the cause was extremely important.
And while she is certainly trained, I doubt she has ever fought a real battle - some things at least the movies allude to. When she loses all hope - everyone gone, her love rejected - she abandons her task at home and throws herself into battle. I thought she does this in part to for a final chance of impressing Aragorn.
And though often critcized, I love the turn from warrior princess to humble healer. She has seen the truth of battle, seen and experienced the wounds it caused. One of the main themes in the books was that healing and compassion is superior than fame and power. The true king of Gondor is a healer, after all.
And one mistake, that many commit when they talk about Éowyn, is the fact, that you simply cannot use modern morals in historic settings - and Middle Earth is a Dark Age / medieval setting. There have been reasons, why men did the fighting and got the fame linked to that and why the women nurtured and healed, why they were protected and the men were sacrificed.
Tolkien did a great thing: he broke the trope of the Princess in the tower, the beautiful damsel, gave her strength and determination instead, but he thought it to the end, what she would go through after her first battle, after returning from the brink of death. He lets her fall into depression, find solace in the company of another broken person and outgrow her crush on Aragorn and her misled dream of fame. And the growing of her relationship with Faramir, slowly, tentatively but also sweet is written beautifully.
That bit in the book always brings a tear to my eye! The movie - good but not so much... Thank you for the detailed analysis! Excellent as always!
I love your vids! These book vs movies comparisons are nice because I too, like most younger millennial/older gen Z kids probably, had watched the movies first before reading the books, but have since fallen in love with the books as well :) . I think Miranda Otto as Eowyn was one of my first crushes admittedly and I loved how genuinely she cared for Merry and even gave him the horn he blew when the hobbits returned to the Shire. Her going from her lowest point in her grieving of Theodred and having to deal with Wormtongue and her then running out as the flag of Rohan rips away from the pole to show off the the slow decay of the region, to then seeing Theoden become himself again and seeing the joy in her face was a very cathartic moment in LOTR, and nowadays, especially when dealing with the struggles of life, that scene with Theoden in the movie being freed of Saruman's influence is absolutely incredible and continues to help me push through when times are tough. Bernard Hill will be missed and it was cool how he made the extra effort to stay involved in lotr communities and talk about Lotr with fans, his portrayal of Theoden was incredible, I hope you make a vid for him too :). Kinda random, but still Arda related, but would you recommend the Fall of Gondolin even if I've already read the Silmarillion? I've heard it was mainly Christopher Tolkien's efforts to compile all available information on the events of the fall in a more comprehensive form, but wasn't sure if there was any new material or not. I heard JRR Tolkien made alot of revisions to the story, so I'm just a bit confused on if the Silmarillion contains the same version of the events in that book, or if it's more of an exploration of different iterations of the story.
Eowyn is one of my favourite characters of the (book) trilogy!
I suspect that Tolkien may have envisioned Eowyn as much more androgynous and stoic than she is portrayed in the movies. With Tolkien, I sense in her a quiet desperation as well as a courageous resolve. Some of the scenes in the movie seem to portray her as a femme fatale. Her desire to die so she can win renown reminds me of the Iliad in which Achilles must choose the warrior culture in which one dies and is remembered for ages vs. the ordinary man who dies and is not remembered. Later when she grows to love Faramir who believes there is something more glorious than renown in battle, she changes from warrior to healer or should I say to a "wounded healer." In Faramir Tolkien seeks to undermine the idea that there is glory in war and that a simple, peaceful life is much better.