Gallipoli 1915: The Faded Vision | John Bourne
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Gallipoli was the most important 'side show' in the First World War. In this lecture the WFA's Vice President Professor John Bourne discusses why Gallipoli happened.
Could Churchill's ill-fated campaign really have accomplished great results or was this an extreme example of mission-creep that Prime Minister Herbert Asquith and Secretary of State for War Lord Kitchener failed to prevent?
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Another excellent lecture. I can't believe these lectures have not had more views? I had a fairly good knowledge of WWI but these talks have really increased it. Thank you.
It is likely because they aren't well produced, multimedia extravaganzas and they're far too in depth for the lay person. It seems that people want only, at best, a cursory look at information which they're already somewhat familiar with, all wrapped in a slick, overly-edited package. I find these video lectures fascinating and incredibly well researched and cited!
One of the best lectures on the Gallipoli campaign on the web, interesting, well-presented with humour, sincerity and passion not to mention knowledge and insight. Thank you Prof Bourne and WFA. Lest we forget....
that.
was an excellent summation of Gallipoli.
I have to admit that, at the beginning, with the seeming praise of Churchill,
I was a bit worried that this was going to be a bit of the old rehash of how it was flawed execution
of a brilliant plan.
I am so glad I got over that feeling and kept listening.
Thank you Prof Bourne.
17:55 as a Turk, I would say it was a major success for the future of the Turkish army as well because having emerged victorious from the battle, and Ataturks accomplishment in it, Turks have bonded a national spirit and fought the British and Greeks alike and forced them from Anatolia. With the help of Ataturk who was promoted by his successes in the campaign, he formed the Turkish Republic, and his popularity and military expertise which was boosted by Gallipoli helped him a lot.
Agreed - such a pity Ataturk's vision and achievements post WW1 are being diluted by Turkey's current leadership.
Apax, Your understanding of history is misguided. After Gallipoli the British Army continually kicked the ass of the Turks army all the way to finally taking Constantinople and Jeruselem on the way !!
@@tent7014 hahahahah then where are they now? Tell me who is in İstanbul right now and I will give you a cookie, I can't tell if you're joking. British did indeed take Istanbul when Ottomans surrendered but for a very limited amount of time. They used Greeks to invade Anatolia but they were kicked out and the Brits were too powerless to send more men to Istanbul so they agreed to surrender and left Turkey. Ataturk simply sent a message to them "It is seen fitting for your armies to return to your homeland in a weeks time." and they simply packed up and left, not even a single bullet was fired between Turks and English in Turkish Independence war. It was a diplomatical war in which English lost.
@@jamesmurdoch9805 sadly, I agree too. But people are waking up.
@@apaxx3950 I hope so, I have a great respect for the Turkish people. Oft forgotten is that Turkey and the UK have been allies far more often than adversaries.
Excellent lecture.
A prospect of using the Navy more effectively to end the war was Admiral Fisher's Baltic plan, which was dismissed in favour of the Dardenelles.
For me it seems like Britain underestimated its opponent in the same vein that Stalin underestimated how long it would take to conquer Finland at the start of the second world war. They both went in thinking that they could just "kick the door in" so to speak.
To be fair the Ottomans had been kicked out of Libya by Italy, then from the Balkans by Bulgaria/Serbia/Greece/Albanian Rebels just before 1914. Attacking the straits and aim for the Ottoman capital was rather ambitious. Surely the Ottomans should be expected to defend the most crusial coast strip and their capital?
The poor staff work really helped make things worse. It might've at least been less miserable if it was planned properly rather than as a last minute night out at the pubs.
"Asquith was a man who like rambling discussions..." he would have loved this one which goes all over the map and totally misses the point that Britain and Turkey could have been allies.
Newfoundland Canada 1915 Gallipoli War 🇨🇦
The Gallipoli campaign was also a sinister experiment in terms of the dawning age of the machine gun & what tactics could be developed to counter . . the allied side knew it was going to be a slaughter of own troops & had little optimism , but the band played Waltzing Matilda
52:40 for anyone wondering what timestamp was used for the video on the Dardanelles campaign by Potential History
A gem ..
This is amazing but why are there no young audience?
When I was young, I was busy getting drunk and hooking up with ... well, TMI, but suffice it to say that they probably have different sorts of interests. Good thing there're pensioners.
John D good to know some things never change 😏
Haven't you learned anything?? all the young ones were killed by shell fire 💥
@@thatboy2025 damn
apart. Because that generation-my generation were not riddled with the rubbish that comes out usually from the young in the Antipodes. They are also members of the Western Front Association and I recommend that some of you young people join it and get rid of some of the thinking on the forum.
Robert E. Lee introduced the war once he could only fight a defensive war and Grants only option was to match him trench for trench and use his superior numbers to grind Lee down.
@@generalbooger9146 Not really...that's exactly what happened. What do you think they were doing at Petersburg for a year while sherman tore up the south? Jenkins off? Derp! You again?! DERP! W3TARD!
@@generalbooger9146 My sentences are fine. Lee complained at the beginning of the war that he could not get his men to entrench, as the lowest white pekerwood saw it as slave work. He worked with what he had. By the time Grant took over and started kicking Lee's ass, he finally managed to convince southerners that they were not gods gift to warfare and got them to see the benefit of entrenching. By the end, he would only fight behind entreanchments if he was able and did everything to avoid open battle.
Hamilton, what can one say? Then some points...
1. The Turks employed their machine guns like the Germans, a lesson not learned by the Brits until 1916,
2. Any wells dug for water were salted as the sea water had wedged under the peninsular,
3. German barbed wire used by the Turks was nearly impregnable,
4. Insufficient numbers of Sappers,
5. Beach and landing reconnaissance by the Royal Navy - WTF?
Only the evacuation was a success, credit John Monash....
James Whyard
And credit Birdwood and Munro.
James why. The vast majority of men killed in WW1 were killed by artillery shells not machine guns. It was an artillery war.
asquith looks exactly like micheal caine.
If Michael Caine was posh and became a politician.
Comparing Gallipoli with Iwo Jima is like comparing water to sand, another I’ll conceived American comment 😴
what the hell is Boxing Day
Good grief, look it up
A understandable sore topic still was the Australian landings initial where troops without orders rushed up the hills thinking they would show the Turks how it works & were promptly shot to pieces & mass desertion occurred , Dennis Winter book . . that said Australian General Brudenall White was the orchestrator of the successful withdrawal & who went on to play a key role in winning ww1 on the western front with his creeping box barrage technique & Australian shock troops , Read somewhere else that the British ships thunder run up the straits nearly actually succeeded & they withdrew not knowing that the Turk batteries were on the point of running out of ammunition
I have two words...Iwo Jima. Naval support of marine Corp landing that was on a barren volcanic rock all uphill. Gallipoli against an enemy like the Turks is a pushover compared to island hoping and facing the Japanese.
I have two words: bull shit
@@gl2773 Your right. Comparing Gallipoli to Iwo Jima or any of the battles The Marines fought against the Japanese is bullshit. Gallipoli was an abject failure against a weak enemy. Every one of The Marine Corps campaigns against the Japanese was a victory against an enemy that was worthy of the name.
@@robertalpy9422 the battles your Marines fought in were winnable from the start; Gallipoli never was. Iwo Jima - Corps v Division/7th AF v nothing/5th Fleet v a few boats. Gallipoli - 15 divisions v 16 divisions and an entirely different restraint on resources to your analogy. The mistake made is the same as yours, wrongly thinking the Turks were a pushover. Their seemingly endless amount of Human Resources and willingness to die, meant a war of attrition would only go one way.
Let’s compare:
Iwo Jima:
- 110,000 US troops vs ~20,000 Japanese troops. (5.5:1)
- On a remote island thousands of miles from the Japanese home islands.
Gallipoli:
- 489,000 Allied troops vs 315,500 (1.5:1)
- Mountainous peninsula a couple of hundred kilometres from the capital of the Ottoman Empire.
The difficulty of the mission on Gallipoli absolutely dwarfs Iwo Jima where US victory was virtually guaranteed before it even began.
@@atrlawes98 your numbers are off but not by much.
The difference was that the Turks were dug in uphill and the Anzacs were poorly dug in on the beach which they never seemed to have left.
The Japanese were entrenched deep into tunnel systems dug into volcanic rock. The Marines are shock troops who did not do much digging in. Instead they systematically blasted and fired out the Japanese.
Both the Anzacs and the Turks were second rate troops. The Marines are and were brutal shock troops and the Japanese were some of the best forces the axis powers had. There is no real comparison.