I'm curious what your relationship is to the patriarchy and men's pain, how the patriarchy lives within you, and whatever this video brought up for you?
Open up to me. No stop, that's too much I don't want to hear all that. You need to drop the mask. Wait I love your mask put it back on. Our hyper competitive capitalistic society and our materialistic culture is not the only problem men struggle with it is also WOMEN and they're toxic influence. Men suffer because we feel alone and we are. We are told we're bad yet the very things women criticize us for they also demand of us. Men are told they need to change. So do women. It is very easy for women to lay the blame on society and excuse themselves for the role they play in men's oppression and alienation. One of the greatest tools of socialization is women. Women need to stop scapegoating men and look in the mirror.
Thank you for blaming the victim that's very kind of you. As for a woman's role in shaping society I'm sure all the "Material Girls" can sigh with relief knowing that that fault lies entirely with the "Patriarchy". Personal accountability avoided again, score! Shrouded in pseudo intellectualism, bonus points!
I was abused verbally and physically by my step-father as a kid. As much as being physically hurt was bad, I think the things that did the most damage was being told that I need to "man up" and being mocked for "sounding like a pathetic little girl" if ever I was caught crying I think I could make sense of being physically hurt. But the most damaging part was not being allowed to *feel* hurt. Being told to just repress it. It was actually reading Shakespeare in drama class that helped me to unlearn this. Where one character, a king, is told that his family have been killed, he simply turns and cries. One of his advisors yells at him to "Dispute it as a man!" To which he turns and says "I will. But first I must feel it as a man." I think more men need to know that it's okay to cry. That something being feminine isn't a sign of weakness. Thank you for this wonderful video As a male ally, I really appreciate you taking the time to address this ❤️
My relationship with my father was strained once I became of the age where “being a man” and “doing x like a man” was now the new mantra. He went from being the dad who would always watch Disney movies with me, cook me delicious meals, and talked with me to suddenly shifting his whole personality and being seemingly disappointed by my lack of manliness. It then became all about sports, self defense classes, and not spending time with boys in my age group who were gay. I’m glad that I did everything in my power to break the cycle, even if it meant ruining the closeness we shared when I was toddler-aged. This video was super methodical and well thought out, and really helped me understand that this narrative can be cyclical and deep rooted. Amazing work as always!
this is heart-breaking and all too common I think! Thank you for sharing, I think a lot of people will relate. And thanks for your support with the video 😍
That's horrendous. I'm gay, and I'm so glad my Dad never went this route. He bought me a Meccano set when I was 9, I realised I hated screwing nuts and bolts to make a ballista after a few hours, and went back to pretending I was a wizard and collecting crystals. He never bought me any boyish toys after that. It was no problem. He's never been a hands on dad, he's very introverted, but I've never doubted his deep love for and commitment to me.
If there's one thing that's haunted me throughout my life, it's the feeling of failure. I've shared this feeling with people who have reminded me of my accomplishments, my abilities, the quality of my character, talents, etc, but it very rarely sticks since there's a little voice in my head saying "that's not enough though, is it?". At times in my life this dissonance has created such a powerful sense of self-hatred that it makes it hard to function. Even as I look at the precious TH-cam silver play button on my wall, I pay more attention to how the numbers on my dashboard reaffirm the "truth" in my gut that it shouldn't be there. From such an early age, my dad and other male peers instilled in me this notion that success and brilliance are an inevitability in my life, and if I stay the course then it'll come my way - but it didn't happen, because of course, that's not how it works, especially when you grow up with various socio-economic issues. I still ended up blaming myself though, and as that started to affect my mental health greatly, I was told by everyone that if I mope around then I'll only make things worse for myself, and should simply take action. Given that I was seriously depressed though, that's easier said than done. At this point in my life, I don't know whether I'll ever be free of that fear of failure. Some ghosts you just have to learn to live with and come up with the skills to keep them at bay. I've been fortunate enough to develop those skills, but far too many men don't, and I think it's truly a tragedy when I see men who I know are deep down good people, but the thought of vulnerability scares them to their core, and they'll never fully actualize as a result. This was a really beautiful video, thank you for giving me a small part in it.
As I use to say: "When I was 5, my biggest fear was the cookie monster from Sesame Street. Now my biggest fears are failure, rejection and loneliness." Also, I love your videos Salari. Keep em coming! (Both you and Kathrin are great TH-camrs)
Great post. Keep in mind that success is actually subjective and not objective as our society sometimes presents it. Success comes in many forms and often small, unnoticed "sucess" is the most valuable. (For example "success" in starting/maintaining relationships, personal growth, etc.)
I struggle to find intrinsic value in the things I create, but find it pretty much impossible to accept outside validation either. A maths degree with an awful GPA, a poetry prize I don't deserve, the assurance from people whose opinions I respect that I do, in fact, have talent... several unfinished projects on my hard drive, wondering when I'll finally recognise the person everyone around me seems to see. So, for whatever it's worth from an unqualified stranger, I like your videos.
Salari, I'm subscribed to your TH-cam platform. I understand. It's a tough tightrope to walk I think it especially rears it's ugly head when it comes to employment. Oftentimes I wish I was infallible. Like a machine who could crap out success all the time. Pick up on things immediately with zero learning curve. Being over 50 makes things literally impossible.
I had a boyfriend in high school who had a reputation for being the typical high school jock and bully (like some kind of hierarchical predator in a school setting). Nobody who knew me could understand why I was so in love and infatuated with him back in the day. The reality was he was a very sensitive person and he was the complete opposite of what he portrayed to the outside world. Back then I thought he was wearing the "sensitive soft boy" mask to lure me in, now that I am older it is clear to me that is was other way around. I didn't know how much pain he was until one night he called me in deep emotional pain. He told me how tired he was of being violent towards other teenage boys because he didn't know how to emotionally sooth himself (he also confessed to me how he was a victim of SA abuse by his own mother) and he couldn't understand why his sensitive side was always mocked by other men by all ages. I knew he was a victim of his environment and the only solid question I asked him was: Why don't you change friend groups? He got very angry at my response and he couldn't fathom leaving his toxic male friendships towards some kind of an art scene he deemed as "weak". About 8 years later after that call I found out he had a very violent death caused by one of his male "friends". I constantly think about that last phone call I had with him back in the winter of 2009.
oof I'm so sorry, this is heart-breaking and the phone-call haunting! It's so true that underneath the most patriarchal man there's usually a wounded boy crying for help. Thank you for sharing, I think a lot of people will relate!
I was heartbtoken until i learn he has no empathy but for himself and hurt other kids. I survuved abuse too and i'm still not violent. IMO You dodged a covert narc but who know ?
Yes. There is so much proven value in boys and men being able to freely open up to other males and being shown understanding and compassion when doing so. This must be encouraged! 👏🏾💯🧠🎯👍🏾
That's great,until you have to express unpopular opinion about women. At that point,the PC police show up to your door and place you in handcuffs for mean tweets.
@@Kathrin_ytI’m very impressed with the lack of vitriol in this comment section. Well done! I suspect that this kind of community building is rarer from male TH-camrs and that it’s for reasons related to the content of this video.
As a man who's in a lot of pain right now, it certainly helps to be reminded that it's not just me. I've come a long way in opening up and growing emotionally, to the point where both men and women tell me I am an inspiration to them. There is no longer any doubt that the real unmasked me has a lot to offer, that my love is an invaluable gift and that I deserve all the love that I get. And yet there is this crushing loneliness. The desperate need to be held but the knowledge that no one owes it to me. My whole life I've never felt in control about the intimate connections I make. It always felt like something I can only hope for the world to grant me, if it is merciful. I know that there is love for me out there, but at the time that thought is as much comfort to me as a bag of seeds is to a starving person.
Thank you for having the courage to unmask and do this work to unlearn patriarchy. And thank you for your vulnerability in sharing your loneliness. Sending love and solidarity ❤
This is an incredible video. As someone who's definitely swung to the evil side of feminism and had to reevaluate my views, this is so needed. Feminism is about pointing out how we're all being hurt, not about who's more hurt.
Right now, it seems to be about revenge more than anything. Just look at UN Women actively hijacking any occasion for men to bash men even more. This year's theme for international men's day is reduction of suicide numbers. We're not even aiming for prevention yet. I dread to think what the feminists will be doing this year. Meanwhile, all of the "true" feminists watch in silence. "Silence is violence". Until you actively do something about your "sisters" you are part of them.
@@teresamagnusson Why do yall act like your group is the most oppressed one? I'm tired of these "oppression Olympics", we're all oppressed in some way and we shouldn't prioritize anyone, because it won't solve the problem.
As a 12 year old autistic boy I was groomed and sexually abused by a girl a grade older than me and publicly shamed for it I have been in therapy for 5 years and am still struggling to build and maintain healthy relationships with women Thank you for making this video
I'm so sorry she violated you and society let you down. I can't begin to imagine the depth of pain and how utterly helpless you must have felt. This needs to be brought up more. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I hope, in due time, you're going to heal your pain and have a long, healthy relationship.✊️
This topic is something i think about a lot as a very feminine trans masculine person. Being trans is in no way a privilege, but it was, compared to the alternatives, a privilege to be allowed to be feminine as a child. My gender presentation was absolutely policed as a child, but not as much as it would have been if i had been assigned and raised as a boy. I don't know how to perfectly articulate it in words, but i feel like the privilege/oppressed dichotomy in feminist thought is often over simplified. Identities that are thought of as privileged can be the source of oppression, especially when paired with intersectional identities.
very interesting to hear your experience, thank you for sharing, and I so agree that the privileged/oppressed dichotomy is oversimplified re. feminism! Reminds me of a bell hooks quote: “The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem.”
Our experiences as trans masculine people who are more feminine than masculine highlights how gender roles and expectations can be deeply ingrained and how they can affect people in complex ways, regardless of their assigned sex at birth. The policing of your gender presentation as a child is a clear example of how societal norms can limit expression and create feelings of inadequacy or shame. As a trans guy, I can remember my mum (who was very supportive of me when I came out) strongly suggesting that I wore a skirt and jacket combo instead of the boy's tuxedo suit that I originally wanted. They were both the same colour and style. The only difference was one had trousers, the other a skirt. My grandmother (my dad's mum) was worse - she sat me down when I was 11 and told me that the time was coming when I would have to "give up" playing outside and wearing jeans/shorts and start staying indoors, learning how to cook and clean, and wear dresses.
This might not be entirely what you’re talking about, but I’m a cosplayer. I’m a cisgender male who does a lot of “female” characters, and I’m a “femboy.” I have had A LOT of transgender men and boys - within the cosplay community - come to me and tell me how hard it is for them to be like me. On the one hand, if their face retains “feminine features,” they’re less likely to be bullied than I am for dressing “femme” or cosplaying a girl character, but on the other hand, people will say “I thought you said you were a boy! So stop dressing like a girl! You wanna be seen as a man? ACT LIKE A MAN!” And/or people just keep assuming they’re a “girl” which gives them bad gender dysphoria It’s heartbreaking and infuriating
@@slowrunn3r88 it's not exactly what I'm talking about, but it's totally related. It's common in the trans masc community to choose to dress more masculine than you would prefer to avoid getting misgendered or fake-claimed. In my original comment I called being "allowed" to feminine as a sort of privilege, but at the same time, my enjoyment of ballet was used to discredit my trans identity (despite the fact that plenty of boys do ballet). Because our family and community saw us as girls, we were encouraged to explore our feminine side in a way that cis men are not, but then that femininity is used as a reason to discredit our identity.
@@kadenariel8726 that’s such a shame - it’s like either way, you can’t win, or you have to suppress one part of you to be accepted for being the other part of you (like “be a girl” to dress feminine, or “dress hyper masculine” to be accepted as a boy/man)
It's sad that toxic competition works into feminism and resistance culture generally. So often we're all taught that invalidating another is an okay way to validate ourselves, but instead we're all just tearing each other down. It's no surprise that so much of what suceeds in a toxic culture has its likeness. For me the only worthwhile feminism is based on kindness, building and modeling equality. This is something the corporate girl boss grift can never be. Marketing can't get us there, we need to live it
I am a man. This video made me cry. So much of what you say it's true. We are told to suppress our emotions. I did that in an effort to protect myself until I met a woman who made me feel vurnerable, which was liberating in many ways. We forged an intimate connection which, sadly, didn't last long due to external circumstances. Ever since I've been more in touch with my feelings. However, I gotta say that, in many ways, I was either socialized different from other men or I am extremely wierd, as I was never really concerned about the size for my p*nis. Still, especially when it comes to violence, I knew I had to perform not to be attacked physically by other men. The fact I acted like the scariest person in the room did save my life, but at the same time destroyed my mental health to a degree that, even 10 years later, it still affects me. So yeah, we need to rethink masculinity.
I'm happy to hear the video resonated with you! And I think you make a good point, that so often masculinity is a form of survival and self-protection mechanism - that protects as much as it destroys. Kudos to you for working to unlearn this stuff and allowing yourself to cry!
I instinctively fight the urge to cry and I wonder about how that's harmed me and symbolizes how out of touch with myself I was (before years of work on myself).
Crying is a normal and consistent human response to mental and/or physical pain. Allowing yourself to do so has a proven healing effect. Recognition of the barriers in doing so is a great sign of growth and emotional health.
My Dad struggled with the disconnect between all the macho crap he was fed growing up vs. how he felt inside. I could really see him fighting it all the time.
One suggestion, from a third gender to another, is to destroy the idea of "biological" sex first. We don't know what our biological sex is without genetic testing. You're non-binary. You're already deviating from the expectation. That's worth celebrating that you're brave enough to engage that part of yourself. Biology is only relevant if you're trying to reproduce or have a health issue. Past that it doesn't matter.
The labels make me uncomfortable, but yhea unpacking masculinity is weird when you've never been attached to an identity as a man. Manhood is at times something forced into me, then a scar that will always be part of me, then a bad pattern I keep failing to change. And then other dudes express what amounts to gender euphoria and I'm like: cool for you, I don't get it though 😆.
I think the biggest thing for me as a man is that I don't feel like I fit in with society. I don't feel like a "man". I've always been a softer spoken, more gentle person. I'm a late millennial, so throughout the 2000's we were taught that if we went to school and got good grades, we were guaranteed a comfortable life. The image of a father that takes care of his family comes to mind. I went to school, post secondary, got honors but im still struggling. I'm trying to help myself and my parents stay afloat. But it feels like no matter what I do, I'm stuck in a society that I feel like I do not belong in. I was not able to earn a good living. I can barely take care of myself, handle life's stresses and expectations. I'm good at hiding that I'm not a "perfect worker bee". But honestly I feel like everything I have tried has led me to failure. I'm not sure I see the point of trying any longer? Sorry this feels slightly incoherent. But I guess if I had to summarize. I feel like I'm unable to achieve the stereotypical male role. I feel like I'm a child in a man's body and I'm terrified that I'll be stuck in poverty while struggling to put on a mask for society until I pass away. I just got to the part in the video about SA. I was assaulted by a partner when I was 18 and people in my friend group blamed me for being assaulted. It was eye opening to see how people view gender roles. They assumed I had done terrible things for a woman to commit assault. It left some deep scars for a while
I'm in a similar boat. There are good days and bad days. It's easy to notice the bad days, which is why it's important to pay attention to the good ones, try figure out what makes them good, and go from there. Easier said than done, but it can help. Also, ignoring many common notions of "success" can be liberating and is, in my opinion, essential if we want to live in accordance with our true selves. Good luck.
Being amab and later realizing I was trans, the men's world always seemed jarring to me. Its performative and superfluous nature, the normalized violence and toxicity. I still remember the first time I was told "to man up" when I was only 8 years old, it was very unsettling being in physical pain and not allowed to express that pain, even amongst friends. Growing up I had men opening up to me emotionally, probably due to my strong feminine side. Only later to realize that I was being used as a proxy "therapist". Boys do really get groomed into becoming shells of themselves, and are later only allowed to exist as a concept: breadwinner, hard worker, protector, boyfriend, husband, father, etc. This gender divide is what I think at the core of the issue, or close to it. Women are like this and men are like that and we need to separate the two as soon as possible and instill opposing values in them to keep them apart, physically, mentally and emotionally. Patriarchy has pushed women aside, and is now essentially reaping what it sowed. Systematic changes cannot happen on an individual level, and unfortunately the people in power are themselves profiting from keeping the imbalanced status quo afloat. New generations are becoming more aware of it and will hopefully demand serious change. After all feminism is trying to improve the lives of everyone, including men.
Wow that was like looking in the mirror. Also trans femme and being the therapist friend, the mom of the boys, or the ones adults off handed responsibility to was pervasive and it still trips me up that a lot of that was kinda unknowingly misogynistic. I even went through a not like other boys stage where i disdained a lot of the tug of social war of teen boys as insecure and juvenile. I framed it as being so secure in my masculinity that i didn't need to secure itand was left alone, though a lot of that was due to common knowledge that i was good at violence (kickboxing and a years of martial arts). Still tried to pull me into rough housing that i realized wasn't rough housing but jockeying to get social power. Turns out not caring about gender is a deflection from dysphoria. I just think it's wild how I was still turned to as an emotional venting zone for men because I was "different". Or asked what the girls thought ( this was a mistake I'm autistic, the other girls were not. Clearly communicating feelings is not a norm for high schoolers apparently regardless of gender). I even ended up in the classic bf uses you as a therapist gf but won't go to therapy cuz "he has you" before my egg cracked. Gender is weird as hell. I know it's overly cited but what you're describing is oppositional sexism coined by Julia Serano in her book Whipping Girl. Some of it is dated ( I'm black and genderfluid so the quoted resentment towards non-binary people who were low key sexist until I remembered that non-binary identites even back then were often only visible through the lens of whiteness/able bodied ness/ straight sized etcand then I knew kinda what she was on. Still threw me out) and specific to the queer sapphic adjacent SF of the time but some of the core ideas last. Oppositional sexism is one of those things, the idea of separate hy definition opposing ends of an intrinsic gender binary. It's complimentary to misogyny and foundational to patriarchal beliefs. I also like to use if the word misandry crops up because people like to frame the idea misandry as an equivalent to misogyny when they're really really really not. Not just degrees of material harm or rights but literally they operationalize on different but complimentary levels to uphold patriarchy. Trying to make them analogous always devolves into a insipid battle of the sexes type bullshit which ends up upholding patriarchy anyway. It also ignores that despite the oppositional framing both ends of the made up binary rigorously police and enforce gender violently within and outside their category. The ignored part being within. Animus towards men is often from other men for failing to conform or resentment from stepped over on the social ladder, which you're supposed to do as a man. (Damn there's a book that links the view of masculinity as precarious power that needs to be cultivate but is all powerful and how neatly that fits into fascism and capitalism. Can't remember the title) Women who do harm to men a lot of the time are motivated by patriarchy or at least beliefs that men are inherently one thing which is sexism that lives under patriarchy. It's insidious too because in feminist spaces when i see oppositional sexism one, it's rarely safe for trans people and two, most of the time that oppositional sexism stems from trauma from misogyny...which in turn exacerbates beliefs essentializing men and that creates fertile ground fir reactionary ideology that will say they are feminist but seems to believe a lot of the same things about men and women as patriarchy. That's how you get gender criticals. That's how you get sapphic spaces that say wild things about men like they're aliens from another planet. It's also how you get people screaming all men or not all men but I want to scream "ideology of manhood aka patriarchy" but it's not as easy to truncate that then to explain 😅 it might as well be any men if they're a stranger. Talking about patriarchy to men feels like pulling teeth when they're in it and that's because ending deep help ideology feels like your sense of self is dying. It's gnarly and it's uncomfy how cult deconstruction discourse is helpful in unpacking patriarchy.
I agree with your sentiment but I'm sensing almost a Freudian slip, as it were. The specific place I mean is "the people in power", why would you not just say men? You also mentioned that 'Patriarchy is pushing women away' as if the entire premise of this video isn't about how it's pushing men away. What purpose do the loaded labels of 'patriarchy' and 'feminism' serve us now?
This entire video is profoundly beautiful in its empathy and you do a very good job inhabiting the terror and sadness of patriarchal conditioning throughout. But I think the segment around 15:30 is the most real inhabitation of life after conditioning in the entire video. It also touches on the core of the problem that exhibits all the others, in my opinion. The wound of conditioning is so deep that I think most men are never able to reconcile with it. And it's not only because of what this conditioning does to your ability to experience intimacy, though it does precisely what you have laid out here. It is because patriarchal conditioning is even worse than learning to wear a mask. The masking I do as someone with ADHD, for example, can be turned off and on. Behind the ADHD mask, the true self still exists. Patriarchal conditioning is the process of *mutilating* the true self, along with all its desires, hopes, and dreams, so that you can become the mask. To feel pain, to feel fear, to feel uncertainty, to stumble or fall short, imparts intolerable consequences. The masculinity of patriarchy cannot hesitate to act. To achieve this, every bit of you that is not the mask must be cut away, piece by piece. In order not to hesitate, to act in accordance with this conditioning, you must not feel. And for the rest of your life, you have the sensation that you are covered in the blood of what you have done to yourself to achieve it. In this way, the anger that comes out when the mask slips or when someone you love gently removes the mask is not only an anger at being made vulnerable, though that is certainly part of it. It is also the rage you feel in recognition that the true self was tortured to death; not only by those who you trusted and loved, but by yourself; that you were complicit in your own mutilation. The anger is in the realization that the boy is no longer there; that you will never return to what you once were; that you will never return to the feeling of joy and innocence and comfort and safety and wonderment, a you that could have done or been anything. That boundless self can never be recovered. When they tear away the mask, they are now tearing away part of who you are. The sensation itself is like re-opening a wound. Part of you, deep down inside, desperately wants to remove the mask and to embrace a tenderness inside. But the moment that the mask is gone, you are forced to remember what could have been, but what now can never be again. The person who loves you is hoping, having removed the mask, that they will find the boy underneath. They are hoping they will find a kind, loving tenderness concealed. But underneath is only your remains. You are simultaneously embarrassed to reveal your vulnerability and mortified to recognize that there is no way to reverse what has been done. All that is left in that moment is the grief of loss and the rage of victimhood. You are forced to reckon with an infinite well of sadness and anger and outrage that, were you to confront it completely, would destroy you. Indeed, it destroys many men. So instead many turn it outwards, toward work, toward competition, toward achievement. Many men also, I think, turn this rage outwards toward women; because it is not only men who enforced their core conditioning. Many men were conditioned by women in their life and were driven to undergo their self-mutilation in order to meet the standards of women whom they loved or wanted to love. Their mothers, their sisters, their romantic interests, and so on... They resent the women of the past for having been party to the mutilation of their true selves, for having rejected them in their most core, vulnerable state. And so, they are also infuriated that so many women then reject the mask that other women helped cultivate. This is why I think you hear so many men in the Red Pill community say things like "all of us once loved a woman very deeply and were hurt" or "men actually love women. Women just love what men provide." They never recovered from the patriarchal conditioning that those women put them through. They resent the role that women played in that mutilation. And the fury of victimization always lies just beneath the surface. They are thinking "I mutilated myself for what? I sacrificed love and beauty and safety and you reject me now? I am everything I was told to be and you are ungrateful." They overcompensate because the vulnerable self is dead or eviscerated beyond recognition. Worse, even when women love them, they feel as you have said in the video at the time-stamp, that those women do not even truly love them. They love the mask. And so they feel like there is no return. Behind them is the horror of what they have done to themselves and they would rather die or burn down the world than face it. This is also why, I think, they respond so badly to women who display confidence, emotional maturity, and happiness without male approval. Women who do not need them remind them of their original conditioning; they are brought back to the trauma of their first and most painful realizations. Every woman who insults them, who acts without consideration of their needs, compels them toward the continued torture of whatever remains of their true selves. And, because they resent this fact, they also externalize more, targeting women who make them feel this way. They are reminded that they were not good enough when they were their true selves and, even after everything they have done, they are still not good enough. And if they cannot shake this feeling? Then they will make women feel as if they are the ones who are not good enough. They will do everything they can to cast them down beneath them so that they can finally feel like they are worth something. So that all the pain was somehow worth it. Anyway. Sorry for the ridiculously long comment. Been thinking a lot about masculinity, toxic masculinity, healthy masculinity, patriarchal conditioning, and related topics lately. Could probably go on for many more paragraphs. Excellent video.
Don't know why every comment xcept this one hasn't gotten the recognition it deserves. You put into a TH-cam comment what so many videos and interviews couldn't condense in hours ... Honestly reminds me one of the few good videos on men by the channel Macabre Storytelling
Wow your articulation of what happens when someone removes the mask is so moving and eye-opening. And I think it's so true, that I think part of the anger and vitriol towards women comes from that fact that we represent the parts of men they have been forced to distance themselves from, the parts they have split off. In a way, they hate us because they want to be us. Thank you for adding this nuance and taking the time to write such a detailed and beautiful response - it’s given me a lot think about!!
This video was posted on the men’s rights subreddit. They acted like this was some sort of evil video. You have unintentionally helped me leave a toxic community.
I watch both. I don't see this video as evil, but as misguided. I'm here because she seems genuine in her care, however the incessant use of 'patriarchy' does detract from the message.
@NappyTheImpaler Could you please post the link? I'm interested in seeing the response. If you, as a man, see this video, and view it as hostile, then you're really too far gone. It's sad that people like that exists.
Over the years, more than a decade actually, I've been trying to cleanse myself from toxic masculinity and internalized patriarchy as much as I possibly can, at first I thought I was simply distancing myself from my father; the biggest bully of my life, but later I realized that the problem was the whole "man" thing him and everyone like him got going. I don't care about it, it hurt me and I really don't want to hurt people back because of it, I just want to be me. To this day I still catch myself doing "the man thing," like bottling up my emotions and pretend everything is fine, and despite knowing better, it's very hard to overcome that pattern of behavior, to allow myself to be open and vulnerable and just allow myself to feel things, identify those feelings, specially love, and let them flow through me healthily... I still struggle with that and then I feel rage for my perceived failure at _feeling_ right, which ironically is the most "man" thing you can do: feel something complex? turn it into anger instead... I'm tried of feeling anger so much and so often. It used to be worse. I still have a whole journey to go but the progress I've made thus far indicates that's worth it, I just feel so much more alive than I used to, when I felt I didn't have to perform as a tough unfeeling "man."
I often felt like I'm not valued. That I only exist to work and be used as a sacrifice for someone else. That my happiness only matters superficially to not inconvenience those around me with my feelings. Because I am a boy.
As someone who has a MA/ECD and who's spent the last 15 years working with troubled young men I find your work to be well thought out, intelligently researched and effectively structured, while being open, empathetic and compassionate. A lot of valuable insights contained within. Thank you kindly. Please keep it up. 😊
Thank you sincerely for making this video! I am a gay man. When I was a young boy, I used to be able to cry my heart out when I felt like it, but at some point, I internalized my native Indian society's messaging that, "Boys do not cry", that I would hear from my parents, relatives, teachers and the mocking jeers of classmates. I think because of that internalization, and being afflicted with untreated depression, anxiety and ADHD, I have become numb. I can no longer cry my heart out when I am sad, and I do regret that I cannot. Also, gay beauty standards are such that they are difficult to attain, but I still yearn to sculpt some level of an Olympian physique that Classical Heroes like Heracles are depicted with, that I feel like I cannot be loved, if I am not physically desirable. However, I do not resent the beautiful gays. I stan the hell out of them, and I hope that I can become like them. I also relate to the point you mentioned about the anxiety of not possessing large and aesthetically pleasing genitalia. Sorry for the rambling in your comments! I really enjoy watching your videos!
I've worked closely with Indigenous communities in Canada for more than a decade. There is a great deal of burgeoning research that the misogynistic nature and practice of colonialism greatly changed the attitudes of Indigenous communities accros the globe towards topics such as gender roles and sexuality. Many cultures with much more fluid and non-binary established principles were forcibly changed to reflect a repressed and ridged, sort of "Victorian", point of view. It may be helpful to see "boys don't cry" narratives as something actually foreign to you and your family, instituted on your culture as a means of control.... not truly, or always, part of your particular Indigenous identity. Hopefully that makes these misogynistic ideals easier to argue against or reject in your own psyche. I hope that prespective can be helpful? 😊
... and yes, this young lady's videos are badass. They've greatly helped this old, CIS, hetro, POC relate to and understand the younger generation's perspectives. 😂
You are not inherently unattractive. Regardless of your body type, outward presentation, or demeanor, you will always be somebody's type. Don't give up. Love you stranger.
My father died when I was 2 years old. My mother's grief led her to project that loss and need for connection onto me, even as a small boy. I was forced to "grow up" and "act like a man" extremely early. I was forced into being an emotional support for her, without really understanding my own emotions and with nobody to really explain them to me in a healthy way. I never had a real father figure, or male role model outside of fantasy and fiction. I would have to be performing at all times; at school I was bullied for drawing/writing/being emotional, and at home I was chastised for not listening/lashing out/being selfish. At school, I hid behind violence, lashing out at my bullies at school with the mindset of a warrior from the games I played and stories I read. At home I wanted to help my mother, save her from all the sadness and loneliness by not burdening her with my own feelings (as she had made it abundantly clear at the time that it was her feelings, not mine that must be validated). However, the more I tried, the more I was forming this warped perception on how to relate to women in my life. I felt a hero complex at times. It felt like "being a man" meant to bury my pain, and use it to fuel violence in the name of "good". I would hide all discomfort, loneliness, sadness, pain... project a mask of confidence and stoicism, and inevitably buckle to the pressure, exploding emotionally towards everything and everyone. This just helped to reinforce to my young mind that showing any genuine emotion would lead to a negative perception; the consequences being sent to the school counselor to be told off for my behavior, be forced to apologize to my bullies, writing essays on how to "act correctly", and namely, social marginalization from my peers for my unstable emotions. Close to my mid 20's I learned that I was very sensitive. I began to allow myself more expressions like writing, drawing, painting. I had some of those outlets before, but I never set an intention to actually digest my feelings through this work. I've always been very alone, and it wasn't until I learned about feminism and leftist politics that I started paying attention that I realized we are conditioned to believe sensitive heterosexual men are a burden. It was really easy to pin the blame on so many outside influences. I would write a poem to a woman I was interested in and be rejected because I was "too good" or "so sensitive". Anytime I tried to be vulnerable with men I was called gay or told "it is what it is, man up". When asked what I did for a living, painting and writing were not seen as something that could "provide"; I needed to do something more "productive". I moved countries for a woman that ended up being one of the most toxic relationships of my life, filled with expectations of "manhood" and "providing and protecting". I was expected to be assertive, stoic, as a statue of a man. Know how to work on car engines and go do manly things like "take charge" and "do what must be done". I'm still lonely and alone. I still struggle with finding deep connection with others. Slowly I've come to accept myself as I am, and forming a healthier relationship within myself. I value my few friendships and love them dearly (although I cannot say we are close or emotionally open). I talk to a therapist as well who gives me shamanic tools for navigating these complex waters of human existence. Been taking a shamanism course myself too which has been interesting as there are only two men in the class. I still struggle with not feeling enough, or being a failure to others. I still burden myself for others, especially women that need help. I beat myself up for not being able to find a partner and start a family and provide for them. I just keep reminding myself that I am enough, I am alive and I am. Not broken or less than or a failure. At least being able to recognize lots of this helps with healing. Thank you for this video Kathrin. Thank you for allowing a space in your comments for this too. It's amazing how much it helps when stuff like this is acknowledged and heard. Glad I've found your videos!
I'm so sorry for the pain you had to endure, thank you for sharing your experience and for your kind words about my channel, I think many men will find resonance in your words. Love and solidarity!
A lot of my gender dysphoria and even trauma around self-worth related issues were centered around social engineering I went through as a male, as someone who is bigender and presents as fem often. "Be a man" is a trigger phrase that will automatically make me resentful of the person.
My dad thought he was being feminist by holding me to the same standards that he thinks boys are/should be held to.... "Not like other girls" since birth (I'm nonbinary and he thinks he's being supportive of that now too.....)
Since i started watching your channel, you completely changed the trajectory to the kind of person i am and want to be and the basis of how i engage with politics. Now Im always committed to being honest, vulnerable and kind.
I'm 29 now. I cried really easy when I was young (and all the way up to middle school/high school really). It's really embarrassing at that age, and especially when you're a boy. Add the fact that I was using glasses, not into football/soccer and a bookworm/good at school, and you have an unwanted cocktail. I really struggled with my confidence, and felt a lot of selfdoubt. I eventually "grew out" the crying, which felt really great in the beggining. But after some time I sort of wanted to have a lower threshold for my crying, if that makes any sense. Venting your feelings and frustrations frequently is really healthy. I cry every once in a while, and I'm not ashamed of it, but I do wish I did it more often. I do wonder if my subconsciousness "holds it back", after several bad memories from crying from childhood. My selfconfidence have never been great, and I do wonder if the "easy-crying" in my younger years has a lot to do with that. (My mother got really sick a couple of years ago. It has been absolutely devastating, and in the early stages I cried a lot. After I was over the "denial-stage", after reality had set in, and after the new everyday life had gone on for a while, I cried significantly less. You can get used to a lot of awful and painful things. But I do cry every once in a while when I visit her.)
I really love this journey of reclamation of crying! It's such a healthy form of release that is so vital to our well-being, and so sad so many men and boys are denied that fundamental need! Thank you for sharing your experience!
(I also had insecurities regarding my penis size and height when I was younger. Thought I might as well mention it, since it was mentioned in the video. I also lost my virginity really late (last year), so that was a part of my insecurities as well.)
Wonderful video. For me talking about toxic masculinity/patriarchy and how it damages men has always been a big topic of conversation. I had a more emotional intelligent father, still with his own damage, but considering he was a nam vet it was more than many would expect (and a true male feminist though he wouldn't call himself one). I also witnessed many of his nam buddies that didn't fair too well, not only from war but childhood trauma. I like to chat with not just my boyfriends but men in general about these issues, and have changed many opinions on such matters. I was also just talking to a male friend about how the manosphere targets hurt men for finical gain, but only really end up hurting the men more. When I talk to men in the sphere I don't feel hate towards them but more so pity. They didn't grow up in a world where they could express their feelings (as you touched on why many revert to more violent ways as it is socially acceptable) and their trauma (many times from toxic women) gets over looked and ignored. I will be sending thos video to many of the men I have these conversations with.
I so relate to this being a big topic of conversation for me too and pitying them rather than hating them. Thank you for both sharing your experience and sharing my video with those men!
Performance anxiety…….. you hit the nail on the head with that one… I have rejected women who were sexually attracted to me. Why? Because I was ~horrified~ of the thought of not performing well, and having the woman belittle me and storm out. Because I knew I’d have *nobody* to talk to because any guy would likely have made fun of me for it I have tried telling women about this sometimes, and they usually ghost me. And then even therapists have said “ya know dude, she interpreted that as you not being attracted to her. Next time, don’t tell the woman. Just focus on her, get out of your head, and hope for the best” ……wow okay, so I’m not allowed to ask for reassurance regarding literally my biggest insecurity of all???
My mother is most aggressive, emotionally neglecting, controlling person. She literally policed my feelings I could never express how I feel. I never had a loving mother. It got so bad I sought a mother figure in my life because I never felt love. She would always label me as "rude or disrespectful" anytime I call her out on her accountability. Everytime I was honest she would get angry how it makes her look. She even got mad at me because I was sick for "too long" the lack of compassion is astounding. She is the reason why I am *scared* to open up to people because fear of being scolded and yelled at. I'm mexican 29, i am 5"10. My older brother is 6"4ft. He is the definition of toxic masculinity. He is arrogant and obnoxious. He always objectifies women. He always mocked my vulnerabilities. It always felt like a competition with him. He doesn't like my emotions. Mexican culture is very old school, especially in machismo. My brother takes enjoyment, making me feel small.
Would I be correct in assuming your brother has no problem finding intimate relationships with women? (Not an attack you, just a hunch from reading your comment)
This is an ode to my father. Patriarchy was enforced on me, and i was excluded socially for not really fitting into broader masculine behaviorisms in my school years. The whole fitting into society has been an uphill battle ever since.... But my father never pushed it onto me, he has never shamed me or told me to man up or leashed out at me for not confirming to the norm of how boys behave and what they take up interest in. And its a bit paradoxical, because on surface he would appear as the epitome of toxic masculinity; did not really have a language for esxpressing emotions, wild beard and hair in all directions, a farmer, a retired sailor, chainsaws, wood felling, in the 70s he was somewhat of a druglord, he was hard as nails and a notorious brawler, drank lots of alcohol and had a really harsh tone, full of bullshit. lawless and completely ungowernable. But he never tried to push me into being anything other than myself, and no matter what wierd interest i got into he would encourage me. When i learned about the board game HeroQuest, my dad would say it lacked the Hobbit, I asked what a Hobbit was, and he would tell me about these books he read while in prison (even though he was somewhat dyslexic) - and therefore before i turned 12 I had read both the Hobbit, LOTR and silmarillion. He taught me to be ungovernable and dont give a fuck about what society thinks and expect.... An while the preassure from society can force or threathen me into expected roles, i always have this urge to break out, that erupts into... ehm... breakouts.
This was an incredibly insightful video, that dealt extremely well with a LOT of difficult topics, and left no group off the hook for the problems which may lie with it. Thank you for the intelligence, empathy, and perceptiveness with which you explored the topics and groups herein. From a man in his fifties.
Thank you for this video. I did know everything in it, but not in one single comprehensive video. I am working on myself with this information for two years now. Sadly it is too late for my last relationship and preventing my depression and resulting unemployment. But i am on the way of dealing with my emotions and learning to express them healthy. I really love your videos.❤
I’m a trans man. I put off transitioning for a long time as my only strength is my emotional intelligence. I felt I failed at masculinity before I started: I’m short, poor, skinny and worst of all don’t have a p*nis aha. I was also scared of losing the intimacy and honesty of female friendships. I don’t know where I fit into this discussion… I just know patriarchy sucks for both men and women and I can attest as I’ve experienced both.
This is an experience I hear over and over again from trans comrades, who knows how many people prevent their transition for these reasons. Thank you for sharing your experience! There's a great trans youtuber Swolesome who discusses his experience that may resonate, if you haven't already heard of him.
Gender identity is a deep-rooted part of who we are, and transitioning often allows us to feel more authentic and connected to ourselves. As a fellow trans man, I feel you about being short, poor, and not having a specific body part! It helps to keep in mind that people are a spectrum. Not all men are 6 feet tall, rich, and super strong and I've met a few cis men who aren't much larger down there than I am (and I've only had a simple release meta)! It's also important to remember that masculinity is a social construct, and it doesn't have to conform to any particular stereotype. Your physical appearance, financial status, and sexual orientation don't define your masculinity. What matters most is how you feel inside. Since I've transitioned, I've changed a lot externally, but I'm still _me_ and who I am hasn't really changed all that much. :)
There’s a famous video of a transgender man crying when he realized how lonely it is to be a man, and how everybody immediately avoids him and assumes he’s a bad guy Now of course he points out we need to *understand* WHY women are often afraid of men, but that doesn’t mean we can’t empathize with men who mean well
I found this video through the bropill subreddit, a forum for men to discuss and help each other in earnest ways, giving each other space to be vulnerable and seek advice from each other. It was a great watch, and by the end I was definitively touched. Specially at 35:52, as a man who has had to essentially excise a lot of what made me "me", it's really hard trying to essentially reconnect with myself, and this question just hit me in the gut, it brought me close to tears, and some day, I hope I do cry when I hear these questions, and it will be because I understand that it's alright. Thanks a lot for the amazing video, for the great perspective, and for advocating for men.
Am I hearing the SRSLY Wrong boys doing a cameo!? Nice work. UPDATE: Hearing lots of awesome male creators cameo on this one. Thank you, this was great!
My little brother was such a sweet, if irritating, child. He went into the military and now we don't speak. I don't know who that guy is anymore and it's horrible. I thought we were close, but I guess we weren't. Black malehood is arguably more violent. And so is military training. It destroys families and bonds. My father was forced into retirement last week. He exits his job within the month. I am relieved because it means he can start to heal, but I also hurt for him because I know he feels he's failing as a man. And reality is he failed when he signed up to be a cruel person to keep his job the last two and a half decades. But he's miserable. Hopefully he becomes more of the man who raised me again with some rest. I feel like ALL men are burnt out and it shows in how they communicate with everyone else. I've always held that men are hurt as much by patriarchy as non-men. I would argue it hurts them the most because it causes them to lash out at the ones who would love to be there for them causing isolation and a vicious cycle of spiraling downward. Being a man should be allowed to be more nuanced than it is. I ALSO hold that if one's feminism does not include men, it is chauvinism of another sort. I am not in community with people like that. Edited to add that as a queer BIPOC? We are desexed and often shoved into behaving the way men are expected to, regardless of gender, or performing gender even harder. So I think this impacts everyone super intensely and the more layers of marginalization one has, the more awful and messed up it gets. I also want to point out how differently the SA of Antwon Fisher is handled in the film (I might have spelled that wrong) and how important that was for me growing up to understanding how wrong that is no matter who the victim was.
thank you for sharing your experiences! I hope your dad and brother are able to find help and healing. It sucks when we see the people we love struggling in these ways. Sending love and solidarity!
I was lucky enough to be raised primarily by my mother, who was a therapist and understood the issues with how boys are raised. But even so, I can feel the eerie societal pressure at all times. The ever-present expectation that I should be something that I'm not. Fantastic video. Subbed.
Hi Kathrin! Not sure if you remember me - I'm Amber, and I met you in my first year of uni when we were doing some activism stuff together. The opening anecdote of this video hit me like a truck, and I adore how you ended up tackling a subject like this (one that a lot of our contemporaries are very quick to downplay or shy away from) with such empathy and grace. There are men in my life that I have been seeing are in pain for so long, and it physically hurts that this is such a big issue that isn't being handled with the respect and care it deserves. Thank you so much for this video ❤
Great examples of "healthy masculinity" characters: Atticus Finch - To Kill A Mockingbird Rocky Balboa - Rocky (and its sequels) Kyle Reese - The Terminator Aragorn - Lord of the Rings Angus MacGyver - MacGyver edit: George Bailey - It's A Wonderful Life
*There are many types of men, some are naturally strong and tough: they end up becoming soldiers, police officers, politicians, criminals, etc. Others are sensitive and become poets, singers and artists. But I think that the majority are neither tough nor sensitive, they are just “normal” somewhat indifferent to sentimentality and tough and aggressive behavior.*
well if you aren't alpha giga chad man, everyone will ask what's wrong with you, question you're sexuality, and finds ways to demean or invalidate you.
33yr old Man here. I really hope you make waves. You have really touched me emotionally. I've always been an out of the norm, more empathetic and softer male and luckily I knew how to navigate that while also being straight, but I've still had my pain and troubles and have known many that have as well. I hope for a kinder more understanding and forgiving world in the future where people can see and accept more than just the stereotypes where men and women can find more attractive than just the typical. Where we can give a space for more people to rest and communicate openly about their experiences.
My own experience or takeaway might take a few days to sort out, so in the meantime I'll just leave this here for the algo, and a sincere thank you for making this video!
The quote regarding violence being masculinity is definitely one im going to have to hang onto. One of the things I discuss with the kind of girlboss feminist types when engaged in those conversations is regarding what I like to call the "escape vector" from toxic masculinity. Many men in my life have not had an avenue from which they can escape Patriarchy's effect on their psyche. They, much like the story of the man petting the cat, are stuck within a prison of learned behavior and ideology that inculcates a profound sense of alienation and dissociative behavior that cleaves them from their emotional inner self. From the time a man is born, he is forged into a weapon by social forces beyond his understanding. A weapon that will be turned outward upon the world, or inward upon himself. My escape vector ended up being my queerness and self discovery. Even as alienated as I was from the identity of "man" and "straight" I was haunted every step of the way by both men and women placing expectations and boundaries upon the acceptable behavior as determined by my assigned gender. Even with loving and supportive parents, every aspect of the world around me enforced the idea that I must provide and be "of use" to others. To my eventual job. To society. Coming to terms with my sexuality and gender identity was a component of my escape from masculinity, though I will never truly escape it as the world around me is bound within the confines of Patriarchy and gender. One of those foundational moments where I saw what I did not want to become was when my now husband, then girlfriend, was dealing with a severe bout of depression alongside suicidal ideation and self harm. My husband was in the hospital, and I was visiting as I did every day he was there. My dad decided to visit and sat with us in the room and I watched my father PLEAD for my husband in the most pained way I had ever seen. He was awkward, stilted, upset and deeply uncomfortable as he tried to find a way to tell my husband to not commit suicide. In that moment, he was reliving something I had barely heard him speak about over the course of my life. He tried so very hard to stop himself from crying but found himself doing so anyway. It was the second time I'd ever seen him cry, the first being his grandmother's funeral. In that moment, at that hospital, he was reliving the trauma of his uncle's suicide, a man who had been like a brother to him growing up. He was crying and nearly unable to choke through his request, talking about how profoundly painful suicide is for those who are closest to the victim. I saw him and knew that I didn't want to hold onto a pain like that for that long, something that had gone almost entirely unspoken of in the 4 decades since. Each person boxed within the concept of "man" feels as though they are doomed to chase this unattainable ideal of successful, quiet stoicism, a life where they are divorced from the person within, forever cursed to exist as a being that can never truly be seen. Each man is a performance, his act a hollow shell that hides the pained child within, forever shouting for a world unwilling to see him. Thank you for this. May we wish for a better, kinder world in which men are no longer forged and instead are grown, their roots a foundation for the person they wish to become.
This is an incredible video all the way through. I particularly appreciate your vulnerability in being willing to admit your own internalized patriarchal reactions to male partners. It’s easy for someone to say, “some women become less attracted to their male partners when those men start to be more in touch with their emotional, expressive selves,” and much harder to own that YOU have personally felt that. Your honesty makes it easier for other women who date men (and anyone attracted to men) to recognize that in themselves and work to change it. I’m nonbinary and AMAB, and this shit 100% affects me too, even though I’ve been able to free myself from some of it. I can name masculine norms and not identify with them in the slightest, but the reality of the world responding to me as if I’m a man makes it hard for me to express my full self, in part because I often feel it’s not welcome (which is sometimes accurate and sometimes a projection of earlier life experiences). In my current environment, people often segregate along gender lines when interacting in group spaces, which makes it very difficult for me to cultivate a sense of connection because the women’s spaces generally feel like they’re not “for me,” and the men’s spaces don’t really feel like any substantive human connection is happening. I’ve been trying to build and cultivate more individual connections and build bridges between those people to create a more expansive, inclusive community that allows (among other things) for the dismantling of patriarchal norms and ideologies, but it’s TOUGH.
I was raised by my mom for the most part of my childhood and have been characterized as "conservative, handsome, and strong" in appearance, but I'm strongly left leaning (in the US). Both of my former long term partners were at least neoliberal. The first burned through my paychecks and said we had her parents to fall back on, so we wouldn't have to worry about money. The second didn't use my money directly, but wanted me to do work on her house, which would cost money. I told both that I wanted to go to school and/or get into a different field after they were finished with their classes and secured work. Both achieved what they wanted, never lowered expenditures (I have a fear of spending money due to childhood poverty and being homeless), and constantly had more and more material demands, ultimately cheating on me by the end. The first just left after caught, I don't recall there being a formal "break up", I formally cut the second when I admitted to myself that I let it happen again. First treated me like I couldn't harm a fly by the end, the second said she's afraid of me (I've NEVER been violent towards women, saw enough when I was a kid with my mom, second ex did have severe anxiety though). I don't want my identity tied to how much money I make (though I make good money now despite my upbringing), i don't want to be tethered to wanting sex. I want to find people that enjoy life like I do, which doesnt require a lot of spending, but it's hard in a world build on consumerism and I feel like I'm mostly viewed through patriarchal "value" tiers that even many women here have come to coopt into their worldview. I'm afraid that the toxic masculinity that we say we're against has seeped too deeply into us, my "strong conservative" appearance only gets me so far now. I just want to exist, help others exist, help build structure that everyone can agree on, and be happy or content. *Note: I don't like to add to these convos often because I have too much to say and feel that I never present well when I don't plan it out more, but I'm trying to not let paralysis by analysis inhibit me on this thoughtful video.
Full time man here: I’ve been trying to unlearn a lot of really horrific unintentional patriarchy and self loathing I’ve picked up. It’s tricky and often feels counter intuitive/unreal… but the alternative just begets misery. I’m incredibly lucky in having generally very loving and supportive men in my life, so I can’t imagine what other men who don’t must feel like all the time. One guy whom I spent a lot of time with became very contemptuous of women, lgbtq+ people and really just anyone that didn’t automatically subscribe to Jordan petersons way of thinking. Tried many times to get him to look at the world in a less aggressive, “might = right” sort of way but it’s too entrenched in him. Often wonder what could have been done differently to bring out that sweet, generous man whom I know is in there. Hope you come back one day, Josh.
kudos to you for doing this work, it's not easy to do! Really touched me, your last sentence, I think we all know a Josh we hope will come back one day ❤
@@Kathrin_yt also just want to say that last year I had a bit of a mental health crisis and watching your videos helped me put some words to what I was going through- so thank you for that.
Your hope is not necessarily futile. The fact that you've recognized how the "intuitively" of misogynistic ideas is one that you were taught and not necessarily a naturally occurung "intuition" shows great progression! I've worked with hundreds of boys deemed "irreversibly" damaged by the legal system turn into caring, compassionate young men with bright and happy futures. It can and does happen. It can happen for Josh. 😊
My father has everything a man could want except for a family that loves him. Me and my brother did everything we could to move ahead with our lives but we have been nearly killed by his words several times. I want to trust and to love and be one with someone, but all the hurt makes it impossible.
Yeah as guy who has embraced feminism and queerness since the 90's one of the things I've learnt is that it's fine to show those traits in those public spaces but once you open up (as a "man" to a "woman") and be more vulnerable in an intimate setting you get rejected. Fortunately I didn't see it as a gender thing rather a human thing that has different expressions based on social context. Otherwise I very much could see the appeal of the manosphere types and their over simplifications. All the best lies have a grain of truth at their core.
As always, every feminist's opinion on male problems boils down to "Men, you need to be better.." As far as the "internal world" of men thing you talk about. Not every man is a sensitive artist in denial, some men are really like that -- simple, straightforward, brusque dudes rooted in physical action and less so in their own emotions and interiority. In general, there's a lot of variance in male behavior bc of the, "male variability hypothesis." And you talk about your brother or cousin or whatever as if he was pitiable for being more interested in mechanics and fixing cars than anthropology. He seems happy the way he is
I never liked the idea of manliness. As a kid, I was a little bit rough with my friends. I was bigger than my peers then, so sometimes I would tackle them even down to the ground, not to hurt them ofc. It was all in good fun in my head. One day, I was playing around with my friend, I felt he was scared of me and that he was intimidated by me. It scared me. It scared me to think that I might hurt people and others could be afraid of me. I never wanted to feel like that again. I don't want to hurt people physically or emotionally. I always double-check myself from saying something random that might offend them. I wish everyone just got along. Years later, still in elementary school, I see my classmate. And I try to run up and say hi. I remember her running and screaming, as if I was going to hurt her or something. I stopped asserting myself. I grew timid and soft spoken. I wanted to be the least threatening guy in the room. But some people will automatically see you as a potential threat, a dormant criminal, a predator in disguise. I'd be emotionally devastated if someone felt I was creepy or I was forcing myself onto them or abusing them in any sort of way. It's frankly deeply upsetting, thinking a random person walking by me might see me and think 'oh I better have a weapon ready in case he wants to rape me, or take my stuff.' Along with other garbage and pressures that comes with being a man, it fills me with doubt and fear and makes my guts wrench. It enwraps me with regentment and shame for being born a man. It immobilizes and makes me second guess everything when it comes to intimacy and dating. Perhaps a bit off the rails, but I needed to unpack some deep frustrations. Thank you for making this video and highlighting the issues we face.
This is probably the best video I've seen about feminism and men. I've acknowledged that feminism and gender theory are perfect to go up against male toxic masculinity, but I also acknowledge that the girl boss white girl feminism of the 2010s really pushed back men and it's only being repaired now that younger people are overall more progressive and understanding and willing to be more open
I remember my forcing me to play football even though I found it very painful and miserable, it took me being concussed several times and being maimed to let me quit. It became clear later in life that he was forcing me to do it because he himself felt inadequate as a man, he thought by making me live up to that role he would spare me the pain he himself was going through later in life. It took a lot to forgive him for that but seeing in my own life how difficult it is to live up to masculinity and the repercussions for not doing so has helped me at least understand him. Absent acceptance the body cannibalizes the self and what's left is just trying to survive.
It's interesting because it goes to show how a lot of the indoctrination into manhood is born out of a desire to protect those we love from the fates we ourselves suffered. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience!
Thank you so much Kathrin! I love your videos on you deal with sensitive and emotionally charged topics with such compassion and understanding and willingness to get to the root of the issue. Excellent video as usual.
Men are judged by their capacity to influence reality and not experience it. You are applauded for mastering a form of power (creative or destructive) but never thought how to appreciate its consequences. In this sense a mans pain is only relevant to drive up his competitive performance. For men to be vulnerable, they must first take a risk to suffer in a world where that pain has no inherent value.
As a man, I have an intimate understanding of this, either from my own life or the lives of the countless men I've known. As a feminist/ally I frequently find myself in spaces (especially online) where these things are clearly not well understood, but I daren't speak up because I know it would be interpreted as pushing back on feminism, rather than trying to use my own lived experience to strengthen it. I don't even blame people for this - there are so many anti-feminists around using all sorts of (occasionally subtle) troll tactics, so I get why people often assume the worst. We desperately need more voices like yours if we're ever going to build a better world for everyone. Thank you so much for talking about this.
Thank you I struggle with all this every day and it fucking sucks. This video is really well put together and I actually feel somewhat heard from seeing it today, thank you
Happily, my family has always been emotionally open with each other, but one thing that I was reminded of when you talk about the mask of masculinity was the season of The Wire where the retired police captain joins other teachers wanting to deal with disruptive and aggressive schoolchildren who go onto become drug dealers. They meet an 18 year old and after trying to talk with him get nothing but abuse and rejection, and realise that he's too "seasoned", his 'mask' too hard, and decide to talk to younger students as they still have some emotional openness and their masks and hardness still brittle and not yet iron.
It seems like the most popular understanding of patriarchy is one that makes it sound more like an emotional state than a material reality. Even if every human had the tools to liberate themselves from the psychological hold it has, the material gains and relatively comfortable position on the social hierarchy will be too intoxicating to sacrifice.
I definitely didn't mean to make patriarchy out to be simply an emotional state, I think your point is very valid though, in future I think I will do a better job of making clear what it is I'm referring to. But that's also why I emphasise the need for external systemic change and need for internal work. I think we need both.
@@Kathrin_yt I agree. I didn’t mean to criticize your video or perspective in particular. It just seems to be a noticeably common approach in Western gender discourse.
I really like bell hooks' articulation of patriarchy as part of 'dominator culture' - that patriarchy is part and parcel of a single, multifaceted system of oppression. E.g. "imperialist capitalist white supremacist patriarchy" - now updated with "ableist" and "cis hetero normative" qualifiers as well.
As a man I really haven't really had any much to do with the whole patriarchy thing, I've spent nearly all my life outside of society. I found out at 40 I'm dyslexic and autistic, never been in a relationship and I'm mid 40's now, this video started off okay but I couldn't get to the end when every third word was patriarchy.
I love this video and agree 100%. However, as a woman who has been hurt and traumatized by men and the patriarchal behaviors and scripts they've internalized, I struggle with what my responsibility is as a feminist. I do care deeply about men and their pain, and I believe that our liberation is tied up with theirs. But at the same time, I feel a need to protect myself from them and the very real psychological, emotional, and possibly physical harm they can and have afflicted on me. What can I do as a feminist when the men I consider comrades who I want to help don't want to help themselves? To give up patriarchy is to give up their higher place in the hierarchy (really to give up the hierarchy altogether), and if what hooks and Real have said is true, being one-up or above me is the only thing that gives them a sense of identity. This is a bit rambly but as a woman who loves and partners with men and as a feminist, I struggle with the questions.
This is a very real and relatable dilemma! It’s tempting to offer you practical solutions, but honestly the truer thing coming up for me in response to what you are saying is that I'm beginning to see the value in doing nothing, especially when I feel stuck or exhausted. When faced with a problem I can’t solve or when everything feels uncertain, the best course of action might be to simply step back and let go. It’s often in those empty spaces, free from the pressure to act, that the answers to the conundrums we face emerge-sometimes unexpectedly. This isn’t a rejection of action or a call for passivity. Action has its place, and there are times when urgency is necessary. There is a time to act, and there is a time to wait, listen, and observe. In these quiet moments, those resting phases, understanding and clarity can take root. Things come to us in dreams, chance encounters, serendipitous moments, once we are still, open-eyed and listening. From that place we can better know how to respond (or not respond) to these men, and be of service to that which is our work to do/our contribution to make in this brief time on earth.
I've done all the work, opened up, faced my trauma, learned to be vulnerable, forgave my father, all of it. And yet, I still have to be a man everyday, and show my colleagues, clients and family I know how to perform what is required of me. Knowing masculinity is a performance doesn't make it more pleasant, on the contrary, and working on the self can only go so far
Men are taught that being vulnerable they will lead to being abandoned. That is a very motivating threat when you're desperately lonely and disconnected already.
the mask of masculinity has left me spiritually deformed. i’m nearly 30 and i’ve only started understanding myself in any meaningful capacity. i’ve been a tyrant, a brute, a monster, all under the guise of “being a man.” i lucked out in a sense because my father drank himself to an early grave, forcing me to reevaluate my concept of manhood. i hope one day i can be a real person
I deeply resent having been born a male. I've been made to feel like a monster all my life, not for my actions but for something I have no control over. I would transition if I could, but it's just not in the cards for me, so now I struggle every single day with my personal identity. I honestly would have ended myself a long time ago if it weren't for my parents, but I won't always have them. I have no idea what to do going forward, and it scares the shit out of me.
But also, the opening story and painting of the cat and steps really spoke to me. I paused the video and stared at the piece for a few moments as I sympathized with his headspace. While most men who NEED to see this probably will never, it is important for male viewers to take this message to their male friend circles and emulate it. We must uplift another and remember a persons life can sometimes be just a friendly text away from having a very different outcome
This video makes me think of my dad. My dad tries to be strong and independent, but it's really to the detriment of himself and his family. My dad once lost his job due to his chronic illness and he was nervous telling my mom so instead he started "lending" money from her without telling her until he got a new job, but she found out. This lead to their divorce and my mom's mental illnesses (DID/psychosis/bipolar) flared up from the betrayal. I think my dad is also honestly just scared to face the fact that he's been messing up his entire life and wasting it on a toxic relationship and that he could have stopped his four kids from developing severe trauma disorders if he'd just had accepted help and been able to acknowledge that his wife was abusive towards him and their kids. We (my siblings and I) tried so many times to make my dad divorce our mom, but he would just get mad at us. He wouldn't be open about *what* my mom did, and I think a lot of it is because he's ashamed that he's letting himself be treated like this, so he has to fool himself into thinking that he's okay with this and that everything is fine. I've never seen him cry, not even when his mom died. He seems much happier nowadays, but I can't help but sense that he's feeling shameful and an intense loneliness that he can't admit to, because he wouldn't even know what to do with it. It's very sad, but I've given up on trying to save him Sorry for "trauma dumping", but idk maybe this little anecdote might resonate with someone else reading through the comments
No need to apologise, I very much appreciate you sharing your experience and thoughts, it's heart-breaking to hear what you and your dad went through and especially how men are forced to internalise abuse as a personal failing! Thank you for sharing!
I agree with everything said. However violence is not always caused by pain, but often if not most of the time, by desire to dominate. We are animals after all, and animals fight for food and reproduction. Empires and colonies were built on ego and opression of others, for the pure pleasure of conquering and claiming one's greatness.
Excellent video. I saw The Mask We Live In some years ago and it's a very jarring documentary. As a 59 yo cod white hetero man, I've been subjected to all this too. I've been lucky to break out of this way of thinking with a great partner support system. I feel so lucky.
I’ve honestly wished that each woman could live as a man for 1 month, and understand the experience of their brothers on this earth. I think what women would, would be a lot to grieve though: 1.) that this disparity of agency and physical power was not consented to, even by the boys who were born onto the more advantageous side of culture and in some respects nature. No one thinks a variance in violent capabilities makes the world a safe place to be. And unfortunately, boys don’t get to feel safe either. 2.) that people with male bodies are often seen (for good reason) as a threat until proven friend, which is an alienating thing to not be seen as you, or even a person until others know you aren’t going to use your form as a weapon. 3.) that you aren’t allowed to need social support, even when you’re allowed to have it, it should be few and far between. Social support is seen for men, like an oil change, do it once every several thousand miles or whatever, then just be good to go without any problems for the next several thousand. 4.) that there is a massive difference in the level of patience men are granted in repeating relationship mistakes. We all know women who fall into certain personality ruts where she keeps seeing the same kind of toxic behaviors around multiple partners, and when she needs to vent, her friends still offer support (which is great). As a man, if the pattern repeats at all, you lose that support, because the way its seen is that you should have learned the first time, therefore you’re unworthy of patience and sympathy about this topic. 5.) and the largest thing I think women would learn from this, is that the solution to every problem, for boys, was to become more capable. It would take a long time to list all of the commonplace examples of this, but the short of it, is that if you’re a boy and your in pain, its your fault for not being better. Get better and the pain goes away, if you can’t win praise you don’t deserve it, if you can’t earn love, you don’t deserve it, etc. Etc. Etc. The damning thing about teaching half the population this, is these boys are neglected and abused into being hyper-independent men who believe you have to take what you want from life, because it will not be given. And then they are hungry ghosts taking every substitute for love they can find.
I'm glad that you made a video about this. It's not a thing that is easy to talk about. As you pointed out, there are bad actors who look to take advantage of these feelings. I'm extremely for the liberation of women. But it seems like men also need a liberation. I have three sons and a daughter. I'm not about to teach my daughter to be subservient, but her brothers need something too. I don't know what the solution is. It's such a difficult and nuanced issue. It's hard to describe a nonmaterial problem (even if it has material results) and be taken seriously (even by yourself).
I totally agree! I imagine in many ways it must be harder to raise boys than girls these days - kudos to you for trying to revolutionise how you are raising children!
I'm curious what your relationship is to the patriarchy and men's pain, how the patriarchy lives within you, and whatever this video brought up for you?
@@billyLego4855I hear you but feminism is for everyone and it’s positive it’s not misandry. I agree that most people just want to connect.
Open up to me. No stop, that's too much I don't want to hear all that. You need to drop the mask. Wait I love your mask put it back on.
Our hyper competitive capitalistic society and our materialistic culture is not the only problem men struggle with it is also WOMEN and they're toxic influence. Men suffer because we feel alone and we are. We are told we're bad yet the very things women criticize us for they also demand of us. Men are told they need to change. So do women.
It is very easy for women to lay the blame on society and excuse themselves for the role they play in men's oppression and alienation. One of the greatest tools of socialization is women. Women need to stop scapegoating men and look in the mirror.
Thank you for blaming the victim that's very kind of you. As for a woman's role in shaping society I'm sure all the "Material Girls" can sigh with relief knowing that that fault lies entirely with the "Patriarchy". Personal accountability avoided again, score! Shrouded in pseudo intellectualism, bonus points!
I was abused verbally and physically by my step-father as a kid. As much as being physically hurt was bad, I think the things that did the most damage was being told that I need to "man up" and being mocked for "sounding like a pathetic little girl" if ever I was caught crying
I think I could make sense of being physically hurt. But the most damaging part was not being allowed to *feel* hurt. Being told to just repress it.
It was actually reading Shakespeare in drama class that helped me to unlearn this. Where one character, a king, is told that his family have been killed, he simply turns and cries.
One of his advisors yells at him to "Dispute it as a man!"
To which he turns and says "I will. But first I must feel it as a man."
I think more men need to know that it's okay to cry. That something being feminine isn't a sign of weakness.
Thank you for this wonderful video
As a male ally, I really appreciate you taking the time to address this ❤️
Men avoid intimacy and women fake it. Welcome to the modern world. Blaming the common man is intellectually lazy.
My relationship with my father was strained once I became of the age where “being a man” and “doing x like a man” was now the new mantra. He went from being the dad who would always watch Disney movies with me, cook me delicious meals, and talked with me to suddenly shifting his whole personality and being seemingly disappointed by my lack of manliness. It then became all about sports, self defense classes, and not spending time with boys in my age group who were gay. I’m glad that I did everything in my power to break the cycle, even if it meant ruining the closeness we shared when I was toddler-aged. This video was super methodical and well thought out, and really helped me understand that this narrative can be cyclical and deep rooted. Amazing work as always!
this is heart-breaking and all too common I think! Thank you for sharing, I think a lot of people will relate. And thanks for your support with the video 😍
That's horrendous. I'm gay, and I'm so glad my Dad never went this route. He bought me a Meccano set when I was 9, I realised I hated screwing nuts and bolts to make a ballista after a few hours, and went back to pretending I was a wizard and collecting crystals. He never bought me any boyish toys after that. It was no problem. He's never been a hands on dad, he's very introverted, but I've never doubted his deep love for and commitment to me.
If there's one thing that's haunted me throughout my life, it's the feeling of failure. I've shared this feeling with people who have reminded me of my accomplishments, my abilities, the quality of my character, talents, etc, but it very rarely sticks since there's a little voice in my head saying "that's not enough though, is it?". At times in my life this dissonance has created such a powerful sense of self-hatred that it makes it hard to function. Even as I look at the precious TH-cam silver play button on my wall, I pay more attention to how the numbers on my dashboard reaffirm the "truth" in my gut that it shouldn't be there.
From such an early age, my dad and other male peers instilled in me this notion that success and brilliance are an inevitability in my life, and if I stay the course then it'll come my way - but it didn't happen, because of course, that's not how it works, especially when you grow up with various socio-economic issues. I still ended up blaming myself though, and as that started to affect my mental health greatly, I was told by everyone that if I mope around then I'll only make things worse for myself, and should simply take action. Given that I was seriously depressed though, that's easier said than done.
At this point in my life, I don't know whether I'll ever be free of that fear of failure. Some ghosts you just have to learn to live with and come up with the skills to keep them at bay. I've been fortunate enough to develop those skills, but far too many men don't, and I think it's truly a tragedy when I see men who I know are deep down good people, but the thought of vulnerability scares them to their core, and they'll never fully actualize as a result.
This was a really beautiful video, thank you for giving me a small part in it.
Yeah.
I too always feel i am doing not enough, i am always a failure. It is hard to overcome this feelings. Thank you for sharing.
As I use to say: "When I was 5, my biggest fear was the cookie monster from Sesame Street. Now my biggest fears are failure, rejection and loneliness."
Also, I love your videos Salari. Keep em coming!
(Both you and Kathrin are great TH-camrs)
Great post.
Keep in mind that success is actually subjective and not objective as our society sometimes presents it.
Success comes in many forms and often small, unnoticed "sucess" is the most valuable.
(For example "success" in starting/maintaining relationships, personal growth, etc.)
I struggle to find intrinsic value in the things I create, but find it pretty much impossible to accept outside validation either. A maths degree with an awful GPA, a poetry prize I don't deserve, the assurance from people whose opinions I respect that I do, in fact, have talent... several unfinished projects on my hard drive, wondering when I'll finally recognise the person everyone around me seems to see.
So, for whatever it's worth from an unqualified stranger, I like your videos.
Salari, I'm subscribed to your TH-cam platform. I understand. It's a tough tightrope to walk I think it especially rears it's ugly head when it comes to employment. Oftentimes I wish I was infallible. Like a machine who could crap out success all the time. Pick up on things immediately with zero learning curve. Being over 50 makes things literally impossible.
I had a boyfriend in high school who had a reputation for being the typical high school jock and bully (like some kind of hierarchical predator in a school setting). Nobody who knew me could understand why I was so in love and infatuated with him back in the day. The reality was he was a very sensitive person and he was the complete opposite of what he portrayed to the outside world. Back then I thought he was wearing the "sensitive soft boy" mask to lure me in, now that I am older it is clear to me that is was other way around. I didn't know how much pain he was until one night he called me in deep emotional pain. He told me how tired he was of being violent towards other teenage boys because he didn't know how to emotionally sooth himself (he also confessed to me how he was a victim of SA abuse by his own mother) and he couldn't understand why his sensitive side was always mocked by other men by all ages. I knew he was a victim of his environment and the only solid question I asked him was: Why don't you change friend groups? He got very angry at my response and he couldn't fathom leaving his toxic male friendships towards some kind of an art scene he deemed as "weak". About 8 years later after that call I found out he had a very violent death caused by one of his male "friends". I constantly think about that last phone call I had with him back in the winter of 2009.
oof I'm so sorry, this is heart-breaking and the phone-call haunting! It's so true that underneath the most patriarchal man there's usually a wounded boy crying for help. Thank you for sharing, I think a lot of people will relate!
@@Kathrin_yt thank you for opening the space for this discussion. I think we are all in a lot of pain currently both men and women.
That's absolutely heartbreaking and I wish he'd had a chance to grow up and do what he wanted so badly. :(
I was heartbtoken until i learn he has no empathy but for himself and hurt other kids.
I survuved abuse too and i'm still not violent.
IMO You dodged a covert narc but who know ?
@@Koozomec that's all you gathered from reading her response?
Hurt people hurt people... talk to your bros, guys
💯
Yes. There is so much proven value in boys and men being able to freely open up to other males and being shown understanding and compassion when doing so.
This must be encouraged!
👏🏾💯🧠🎯👍🏾
@@cassiusdhami9215 couldn’t agree more!
That's great,until you have to express unpopular opinion about women. At that point,the PC police show up to your door and place you in handcuffs for mean tweets.
That is true. Well adjusted people don't want to go around hurting others.
The way you speak with such compassion, even on the most difficult topics, is exactly what the world needs more of.
thank you ❣
Nah she hates men
@@Kathrin_ytI’m very impressed with the lack of vitriol in this comment section.
Well done!
I suspect that this kind of community building is rarer from male TH-camrs and that it’s for reasons related to the content of this video.
As a man who's in a lot of pain right now, it certainly helps to be reminded that it's not just me.
I've come a long way in opening up and growing emotionally, to the point where both men and women tell me I am an inspiration to them. There is no longer any doubt that the real unmasked me has a lot to offer, that my love is an invaluable gift and that I deserve all the love that I get.
And yet there is this crushing loneliness. The desperate need to be held but the knowledge that no one owes it to me.
My whole life I've never felt in control about the intimate connections I make. It always felt like something I can only hope for the world to grant me, if it is merciful.
I know that there is love for me out there, but at the time that thought is as much comfort to me as a bag of seeds is to a starving person.
Thank you for having the courage to unmask and do this work to unlearn patriarchy. And thank you for your vulnerability in sharing your loneliness. Sending love and solidarity ❤
artificial intelligence my friend. dont feel bad about using it
This is an incredible video. As someone who's definitely swung to the evil side of feminism and had to reevaluate my views, this is so needed. Feminism is about pointing out how we're all being hurt, not about who's more hurt.
Thank you!!
Right now, it seems to be about revenge more than anything.
Just look at UN Women actively hijacking any occasion for men to bash men even more.
This year's theme for international men's day is reduction of suicide numbers.
We're not even aiming for prevention yet.
I dread to think what the feminists will be doing this year.
Meanwhile, all of the "true" feminists watch in silence.
"Silence is violence".
Until you actively do something about your "sisters" you are part of them.
@@Kathrin_yt women in Afganistan would agree with you
It's very important to prioritize those who have been hurt the most.
@@teresamagnusson Why do yall act like your group is the most oppressed one? I'm tired of these "oppression Olympics", we're all oppressed in some way and we shouldn't prioritize anyone, because it won't solve the problem.
As a 12 year old autistic boy I was groomed and sexually abused by a girl a grade older than me and publicly shamed for it
I have been in therapy for 5 years and am still struggling to build and maintain healthy relationships with women
Thank you for making this video
I'm so sorry for your experience, sending love and solidarity!
I'm so sorry she violated you and society let you down. I can't begin to imagine the depth of pain and how utterly helpless you must have felt. This needs to be brought up more. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I hope, in due time, you're going to heal your pain and have a long, healthy relationship.✊️
This topic is something i think about a lot as a very feminine trans masculine person. Being trans is in no way a privilege, but it was, compared to the alternatives, a privilege to be allowed to be feminine as a child. My gender presentation was absolutely policed as a child, but not as much as it would have been if i had been assigned and raised as a boy. I don't know how to perfectly articulate it in words, but i feel like the privilege/oppressed dichotomy in feminist thought is often over simplified. Identities that are thought of as privileged can be the source of oppression, especially when paired with intersectional identities.
very interesting to hear your experience, thank you for sharing, and I so agree that the privileged/oppressed dichotomy is oversimplified re. feminism! Reminds me of a bell hooks quote: “The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem.”
Our experiences as trans masculine people who are more feminine than masculine highlights how gender roles and expectations can be deeply ingrained and how they can affect people in complex ways, regardless of their assigned sex at birth. The policing of your gender presentation as a child is a clear example of how societal norms can limit expression and create feelings of inadequacy or shame. As a trans guy, I can remember my mum (who was very supportive of me when I came out) strongly suggesting that I wore a skirt and jacket combo instead of the boy's tuxedo suit that I originally wanted. They were both the same colour and style. The only difference was one had trousers, the other a skirt. My grandmother (my dad's mum) was worse - she sat me down when I was 11 and told me that the time was coming when I would have to "give up" playing outside and wearing jeans/shorts and start staying indoors, learning how to cook and clean, and wear dresses.
This might not be entirely what you’re talking about, but I’m a cosplayer. I’m a cisgender male who does a lot of “female” characters, and I’m a “femboy.”
I have had A LOT of transgender men and boys - within the cosplay community - come to me and tell me how hard it is for them to be like me.
On the one hand, if their face retains “feminine features,” they’re less likely to be bullied than I am for dressing “femme” or cosplaying a girl character, but on the other hand, people will say “I thought you said you were a boy! So stop dressing like a girl! You wanna be seen as a man? ACT LIKE A MAN!”
And/or people just keep assuming they’re a “girl” which gives them bad gender dysphoria
It’s heartbreaking and infuriating
@@slowrunn3r88 it's not exactly what I'm talking about, but it's totally related. It's common in the trans masc community to choose to dress more masculine than you would prefer to avoid getting misgendered or fake-claimed. In my original comment I called being "allowed" to feminine as a sort of privilege, but at the same time, my enjoyment of ballet was used to discredit my trans identity (despite the fact that plenty of boys do ballet). Because our family and community saw us as girls, we were encouraged to explore our feminine side in a way that cis men are not, but then that femininity is used as a reason to discredit our identity.
@@kadenariel8726 that’s such a shame - it’s like either way, you can’t win, or you have to suppress one part of you to be accepted for being the other part of you (like “be a girl” to dress feminine, or “dress hyper masculine” to be accepted as a boy/man)
It's sad that toxic competition works into feminism and resistance culture generally. So often we're all taught that invalidating another is an okay way to validate ourselves, but instead we're all just tearing each other down. It's no surprise that so much of what suceeds in a toxic culture has its likeness. For me the only worthwhile feminism is based on kindness, building and modeling equality. This is something the corporate girl boss grift can never be. Marketing can't get us there, we need to live it
totally agree!
Very well said!!
I am a man. This video made me cry. So much of what you say it's true. We are told to suppress our emotions. I did that in an effort to protect myself until I met a woman who made me feel vurnerable, which was liberating in many ways. We forged an intimate connection which, sadly, didn't last long due to external circumstances. Ever since I've been more in touch with my feelings. However, I gotta say that, in many ways, I was either socialized different from other men or I am extremely wierd, as I was never really concerned about the size for my p*nis. Still, especially when it comes to violence, I knew I had to perform not to be attacked physically by other men. The fact I acted like the scariest person in the room did save my life, but at the same time destroyed my mental health to a degree that, even 10 years later, it still affects me. So yeah, we need to rethink masculinity.
I'm happy to hear the video resonated with you! And I think you make a good point, that so often masculinity is a form of survival and self-protection mechanism - that protects as much as it destroys. Kudos to you for working to unlearn this stuff and allowing yourself to cry!
I instinctively fight the urge to cry and I wonder about how that's harmed me and symbolizes how out of touch with myself I was (before years of work on myself).
I'm sorry to hear about that repression, but I'm happy you've been able to notice that pattern and rectify that!
Crying is a normal and consistent human response to mental and/or physical pain.
Allowing yourself to do so has a proven healing effect.
Recognition of the barriers in doing so is a great sign of growth and emotional health.
My Dad struggled with the disconnect between all the macho crap he was fed growing up vs. how he felt inside. I could really see him fighting it all the time.
Great video i am still uncovering my relationship with masculinity as a biological male who is non-binary. Thanks
thank you!! ☺
I'm a half a century old and I'm still uncovering it. 😁
One suggestion, from a third gender to another, is to destroy the idea of "biological" sex first. We don't know what our biological sex is without genetic testing. You're non-binary. You're already deviating from the expectation. That's worth celebrating that you're brave enough to engage that part of yourself. Biology is only relevant if you're trying to reproduce or have a health issue. Past that it doesn't matter.
@@cassiusdhami9215Same here!
The labels make me uncomfortable, but yhea unpacking masculinity is weird when you've never been attached to an identity as a man. Manhood is at times something forced into me, then a scar that will always be part of me, then a bad pattern I keep failing to change. And then other dudes express what amounts to gender euphoria and I'm like: cool for you, I don't get it though 😆.
I think the biggest thing for me as a man is that I don't feel like I fit in with society. I don't feel like a "man". I've always been a softer spoken, more gentle person.
I'm a late millennial, so throughout the 2000's we were taught that if we went to school and got good grades, we were guaranteed a comfortable life. The image of a father that takes care of his family comes to mind.
I went to school, post secondary, got honors but im still struggling. I'm trying to help myself and my parents stay afloat. But it feels like no matter what I do, I'm stuck in a society that I feel like I do not belong in. I was not able to earn a good living. I can barely take care of myself, handle life's stresses and expectations. I'm good at hiding that I'm not a "perfect worker bee". But honestly I feel like everything I have tried has led me to failure. I'm not sure I see the point of trying any longer?
Sorry this feels slightly incoherent. But I guess if I had to summarize. I feel like I'm unable to achieve the stereotypical male role. I feel like I'm a child in a man's body and I'm terrified that I'll be stuck in poverty while struggling to put on a mask for society until I pass away.
I just got to the part in the video about SA. I was assaulted by a partner when I was 18 and people in my friend group blamed me for being assaulted. It was eye opening to see how people view gender roles. They assumed I had done terrible things for a woman to commit assault. It left some deep scars for a while
I'm in a similar boat. There are good days and bad days. It's easy to notice the bad days, which is why it's important to pay attention to the good ones, try figure out what makes them good, and go from there. Easier said than done, but it can help.
Also, ignoring many common notions of "success" can be liberating and is, in my opinion, essential if we want to live in accordance with our true selves.
Good luck.
It must be incredibly painful to not feel you fit into the box you were put into!
Being amab and later realizing I was trans, the men's world always seemed jarring to me. Its performative and superfluous nature, the normalized violence and toxicity. I still remember the first time I was told "to man up" when I was only 8 years old, it was very unsettling being in physical pain and not allowed to express that pain, even amongst friends. Growing up I had men opening up to me emotionally, probably due to my strong feminine side. Only later to realize that I was being used as a proxy "therapist".
Boys do really get groomed into becoming shells of themselves, and are later only allowed to exist as a concept: breadwinner, hard worker, protector, boyfriend, husband, father, etc. This gender divide is what I think at the core of the issue, or close to it. Women are like this and men are like that and we need to separate the two as soon as possible and instill opposing values in them to keep them apart, physically, mentally and emotionally.
Patriarchy has pushed women aside, and is now essentially reaping what it sowed. Systematic changes cannot happen on an individual level, and unfortunately the people in power are themselves profiting from keeping the imbalanced status quo afloat. New generations are becoming more aware of it and will hopefully demand serious change. After all feminism is trying to improve the lives of everyone, including men.
Very well said, couldn't agree more! Thank you for sharing your experience!
Wow that was like looking in the mirror. Also trans femme and being the therapist friend, the mom of the boys, or the ones adults off handed responsibility to was pervasive and it still trips me up that a lot of that was kinda unknowingly misogynistic. I even went through a not like other boys stage where i disdained a lot of the tug of social war of teen boys as insecure and juvenile. I framed it as being so secure in my masculinity that i didn't need to secure itand was left alone, though a lot of that was due to common knowledge that i was good at violence (kickboxing and a years of martial arts). Still tried to pull me into rough housing that i realized wasn't rough housing but jockeying to get social power. Turns out not caring about gender is a deflection from dysphoria.
I just think it's wild how I was still turned to as an emotional venting zone for men because I was "different". Or asked what the girls thought ( this was a mistake I'm autistic, the other girls were not. Clearly communicating feelings is not a norm for high schoolers apparently regardless of gender). I even ended up in the classic bf uses you as a therapist gf but won't go to therapy cuz "he has you" before my egg cracked. Gender is weird as hell.
I know it's overly cited but what you're describing is oppositional sexism coined by Julia Serano in her book Whipping Girl. Some of it is dated ( I'm black and genderfluid so the quoted resentment towards non-binary people who were low key sexist until I remembered that non-binary identites even back then were often only visible through the lens of whiteness/able bodied ness/ straight sized etcand then I knew kinda what she was on. Still threw me out) and specific to the queer sapphic adjacent SF of the time but some of the core ideas last.
Oppositional sexism is one of those things, the idea of separate hy definition opposing ends of an intrinsic gender binary. It's complimentary to misogyny and foundational to patriarchal beliefs. I also like to use if the word misandry crops up because people like to frame the idea misandry as an equivalent to misogyny when they're really really really not. Not just degrees of material harm or rights but literally they operationalize on different but complimentary levels to uphold patriarchy. Trying to make them analogous always devolves into a insipid battle of the sexes type bullshit which ends up upholding patriarchy anyway. It also ignores that despite the oppositional framing both ends of the made up binary rigorously police and enforce gender violently within and outside their category. The ignored part being within. Animus towards men is often from other men for failing to conform or resentment from stepped over on the social ladder, which you're supposed to do as a man. (Damn there's a book that links the view of masculinity as precarious power that needs to be cultivate but is all powerful and how neatly that fits into fascism and capitalism. Can't remember the title) Women who do harm to men a lot of the time are motivated by patriarchy or at least beliefs that men are inherently one thing which is sexism that lives under patriarchy.
It's insidious too because in feminist spaces when i see oppositional sexism one, it's rarely safe for trans people and two, most of the time that oppositional sexism stems from trauma from misogyny...which in turn exacerbates beliefs essentializing men and that creates fertile ground fir reactionary ideology that will say they are feminist but seems to believe a lot of the same things about men and women as patriarchy. That's how you get gender criticals. That's how you get sapphic spaces that say wild things about men like they're aliens from another planet. It's also how you get people screaming all men or not all men but I want to scream "ideology of manhood aka patriarchy" but it's not as easy to truncate that then to explain 😅 it might as well be any men if they're a stranger. Talking about patriarchy to men feels like pulling teeth when they're in it and that's because ending deep help ideology feels like your sense of self is dying. It's gnarly and it's uncomfy how cult deconstruction discourse is helpful in unpacking patriarchy.
I agree with your sentiment but I'm sensing almost a Freudian slip, as it were. The specific place I mean is "the people in power", why would you not just say men? You also mentioned that 'Patriarchy is pushing women away' as if the entire premise of this video isn't about how it's pushing men away. What purpose do the loaded labels of 'patriarchy' and 'feminism' serve us now?
This entire video is profoundly beautiful in its empathy and you do a very good job inhabiting the terror and sadness of patriarchal conditioning throughout. But I think the segment around 15:30 is the most real inhabitation of life after conditioning in the entire video. It also touches on the core of the problem that exhibits all the others, in my opinion. The wound of conditioning is so deep that I think most men are never able to reconcile with it. And it's not only because of what this conditioning does to your ability to experience intimacy, though it does precisely what you have laid out here. It is because patriarchal conditioning is even worse than learning to wear a mask. The masking I do as someone with ADHD, for example, can be turned off and on. Behind the ADHD mask, the true self still exists. Patriarchal conditioning is the process of *mutilating* the true self, along with all its desires, hopes, and dreams, so that you can become the mask. To feel pain, to feel fear, to feel uncertainty, to stumble or fall short, imparts intolerable consequences. The masculinity of patriarchy cannot hesitate to act. To achieve this, every bit of you that is not the mask must be cut away, piece by piece. In order not to hesitate, to act in accordance with this conditioning, you must not feel. And for the rest of your life, you have the sensation that you are covered in the blood of what you have done to yourself to achieve it.
In this way, the anger that comes out when the mask slips or when someone you love gently removes the mask is not only an anger at being made vulnerable, though that is certainly part of it. It is also the rage you feel in recognition that the true self was tortured to death; not only by those who you trusted and loved, but by yourself; that you were complicit in your own mutilation. The anger is in the realization that the boy is no longer there; that you will never return to what you once were; that you will never return to the feeling of joy and innocence and comfort and safety and wonderment, a you that could have done or been anything. That boundless self can never be recovered. When they tear away the mask, they are now tearing away part of who you are. The sensation itself is like re-opening a wound. Part of you, deep down inside, desperately wants to remove the mask and to embrace a tenderness inside. But the moment that the mask is gone, you are forced to remember what could have been, but what now can never be again. The person who loves you is hoping, having removed the mask, that they will find the boy underneath. They are hoping they will find a kind, loving tenderness concealed. But underneath is only your remains. You are simultaneously embarrassed to reveal your vulnerability and mortified to recognize that there is no way to reverse what has been done. All that is left in that moment is the grief of loss and the rage of victimhood. You are forced to reckon with an infinite well of sadness and anger and outrage that, were you to confront it completely, would destroy you. Indeed, it destroys many men. So instead many turn it outwards, toward work, toward competition, toward achievement.
Many men also, I think, turn this rage outwards toward women; because it is not only men who enforced their core conditioning. Many men were conditioned by women in their life and were driven to undergo their self-mutilation in order to meet the standards of women whom they loved or wanted to love. Their mothers, their sisters, their romantic interests, and so on... They resent the women of the past for having been party to the mutilation of their true selves, for having rejected them in their most core, vulnerable state. And so, they are also infuriated that so many women then reject the mask that other women helped cultivate. This is why I think you hear so many men in the Red Pill community say things like "all of us once loved a woman very deeply and were hurt" or "men actually love women. Women just love what men provide." They never recovered from the patriarchal conditioning that those women put them through. They resent the role that women played in that mutilation. And the fury of victimization always lies just beneath the surface. They are thinking "I mutilated myself for what? I sacrificed love and beauty and safety and you reject me now? I am everything I was told to be and you are ungrateful." They overcompensate because the vulnerable self is dead or eviscerated beyond recognition. Worse, even when women love them, they feel as you have said in the video at the time-stamp, that those women do not even truly love them. They love the mask.
And so they feel like there is no return. Behind them is the horror of what they have done to themselves and they would rather die or burn down the world than face it. This is also why, I think, they respond so badly to women who display confidence, emotional maturity, and happiness without male approval. Women who do not need them remind them of their original conditioning; they are brought back to the trauma of their first and most painful realizations. Every woman who insults them, who acts without consideration of their needs, compels them toward the continued torture of whatever remains of their true selves. And, because they resent this fact, they also externalize more, targeting women who make them feel this way. They are reminded that they were not good enough when they were their true selves and, even after everything they have done, they are still not good enough. And if they cannot shake this feeling? Then they will make women feel as if they are the ones who are not good enough. They will do everything they can to cast them down beneath them so that they can finally feel like they are worth something. So that all the pain was somehow worth it.
Anyway. Sorry for the ridiculously long comment. Been thinking a lot about masculinity, toxic masculinity, healthy masculinity, patriarchal conditioning, and related topics lately. Could probably go on for many more paragraphs. Excellent video.
Don't know why every comment xcept this one hasn't gotten the recognition it deserves. You put into a TH-cam comment what so many videos and interviews couldn't condense in hours ... Honestly reminds me one of the few good videos on men by the channel Macabre Storytelling
Wow your articulation of what happens when someone removes the mask is so moving and eye-opening. And I think it's so true, that I think part of the anger and vitriol towards women comes from that fact that we represent the parts of men they have been forced to distance themselves from, the parts they have split off. In a way, they hate us because they want to be us. Thank you for adding this nuance and taking the time to write such a detailed and beautiful response - it’s given me a lot think about!!
Societal pressures and gender expectations hurt everyone.. thank you for this balanced, compassionate look at male suffering.
thank you!!
Really appreciate your willingness to look at men's issues as someone who isn't a man. Cheers to you 🍺
thanks so much!! ❣
This video was posted on the men’s rights subreddit. They acted like this was some sort of evil video.
You have unintentionally helped me leave a toxic community.
I am happy this helped you leave ❤
I am happy this helped you leave ❤
That explains some of the comments here.
I watch both. I don't see this video as evil, but as misguided. I'm here because she seems genuine in her care, however the incessant use of 'patriarchy' does detract from the message.
@NappyTheImpaler Could you please post the link? I'm interested in seeing the response. If you, as a man, see this video, and view it as hostile, then you're really too far gone. It's sad that people like that exists.
Over the years, more than a decade actually, I've been trying to cleanse myself from toxic masculinity and internalized patriarchy as much as I possibly can, at first I thought I was simply distancing myself from my father; the biggest bully of my life, but later I realized that the problem was the whole "man" thing him and everyone like him got going. I don't care about it, it hurt me and I really don't want to hurt people back because of it, I just want to be me. To this day I still catch myself doing "the man thing," like bottling up my emotions and pretend everything is fine, and despite knowing better, it's very hard to overcome that pattern of behavior, to allow myself to be open and vulnerable and just allow myself to feel things, identify those feelings, specially love, and let them flow through me healthily... I still struggle with that and then I feel rage for my perceived failure at _feeling_ right, which ironically is the most "man" thing you can do: feel something complex? turn it into anger instead... I'm tried of feeling anger so much and so often. It used to be worse. I still have a whole journey to go but the progress I've made thus far indicates that's worth it, I just feel so much more alive than I used to, when I felt I didn't have to perform as a tough unfeeling "man."
It's so beautiful to read you feel so much more alive now, thanks for sharing your journey to deconstruct your indoctrination into manhood!
I often felt like I'm not valued. That I only exist to work and be used as a sacrifice for someone else. That my happiness only matters superficially to not inconvenience those around me with my feelings. Because I am a boy.
I think this is all to relatable for many men. Thank you for sharing!
As someone who has a MA/ECD and who's spent the last 15 years working with troubled young men I find your work to be well thought out, intelligently researched and effectively structured, while being open, empathetic and compassionate.
A lot of valuable insights contained within.
Thank you kindly. Please keep it up.
😊
thank you so much, and thank you for the great service you've been doing these last 15 years!
Its been the greatest joy and honor of my life @@Kathrin_yt
I can't imagine doing anything else,
😉
Thank you sincerely for making this video! I am a gay man. When I was a young boy, I used to be able to cry my heart out when I felt like it, but at some point, I internalized my native Indian society's messaging that, "Boys do not cry", that I would hear from my parents, relatives, teachers and the mocking jeers of classmates. I think because of that internalization, and being afflicted with untreated depression, anxiety and ADHD, I have become numb. I can no longer cry my heart out when I am sad, and I do regret that I cannot. Also, gay beauty standards are such that they are difficult to attain, but I still yearn to sculpt some level of an Olympian physique that Classical Heroes like Heracles are depicted with, that I feel like I cannot be loved, if I am not physically desirable. However, I do not resent the beautiful gays. I stan the hell out of them, and I hope that I can become like them. I also relate to the point you mentioned about the anxiety of not possessing large and aesthetically pleasing genitalia. Sorry for the rambling in your comments!
I really enjoy watching your videos!
Please don't apologise for rambling, I very much loved reading your experience, thanks so much for sharing so openly and vulnerably!
I've worked closely with Indigenous communities in Canada for more than a decade. There is a great deal of burgeoning research that the misogynistic nature and practice of colonialism greatly changed the attitudes of Indigenous communities accros the globe towards topics such as gender roles and sexuality. Many cultures with much more fluid and non-binary established principles were forcibly changed to reflect a repressed and ridged, sort of "Victorian", point of view.
It may be helpful to see "boys don't cry" narratives as something actually foreign to you and your family, instituted on your culture as a means of control.... not truly, or always, part of your particular Indigenous identity.
Hopefully that makes these misogynistic ideals easier to argue against or reject in your own psyche.
I hope that prespective can be helpful?
😊
... and yes, this young lady's videos are badass. They've greatly helped this old, CIS, hetro, POC relate to and understand the younger generation's perspectives.
😂
@@cassiusdhami9215 I agree with your analysis. Just for a clarification, I am South Asian from Southern India.
You are not inherently unattractive. Regardless of your body type, outward presentation, or demeanor, you will always be somebody's type. Don't give up. Love you stranger.
My father died when I was 2 years old. My mother's grief led her to project that loss and need for connection onto me, even as a small boy. I was forced to "grow up" and "act like a man" extremely early. I was forced into being an emotional support for her, without really understanding my own emotions and with nobody to really explain them to me in a healthy way. I never had a real father figure, or male role model outside of fantasy and fiction. I would have to be performing at all times; at school I was bullied for drawing/writing/being emotional, and at home I was chastised for not listening/lashing out/being selfish. At school, I hid behind violence, lashing out at my bullies at school with the mindset of a warrior from the games I played and stories I read. At home I wanted to help my mother, save her from all the sadness and loneliness by not burdening her with my own feelings (as she had made it abundantly clear at the time that it was her feelings, not mine that must be validated). However, the more I tried, the more I was forming this warped perception on how to relate to women in my life. I felt a hero complex at times. It felt like "being a man" meant to bury my pain, and use it to fuel violence in the name of "good". I would hide all discomfort, loneliness, sadness, pain... project a mask of confidence and stoicism, and inevitably buckle to the pressure, exploding emotionally towards everything and everyone. This just helped to reinforce to my young mind that showing any genuine emotion would lead to a negative perception; the consequences being sent to the school counselor to be told off for my behavior, be forced to apologize to my bullies, writing essays on how to "act correctly", and namely, social marginalization from my peers for my unstable emotions.
Close to my mid 20's I learned that I was very sensitive. I began to allow myself more expressions like writing, drawing, painting. I had some of those outlets before, but I never set an intention to actually digest my feelings through this work. I've always been very alone, and it wasn't until I learned about feminism and leftist politics that I started paying attention that I realized we are conditioned to believe sensitive heterosexual men are a burden. It was really easy to pin the blame on so many outside influences. I would write a poem to a woman I was interested in and be rejected because I was "too good" or "so sensitive". Anytime I tried to be vulnerable with men I was called gay or told "it is what it is, man up". When asked what I did for a living, painting and writing were not seen as something that could "provide"; I needed to do something more "productive". I moved countries for a woman that ended up being one of the most toxic relationships of my life, filled with expectations of "manhood" and "providing and protecting". I was expected to be assertive, stoic, as a statue of a man. Know how to work on car engines and go do manly things like "take charge" and "do what must be done".
I'm still lonely and alone. I still struggle with finding deep connection with others. Slowly I've come to accept myself as I am, and forming a healthier relationship within myself. I value my few friendships and love them dearly (although I cannot say we are close or emotionally open). I talk to a therapist as well who gives me shamanic tools for navigating these complex waters of human existence. Been taking a shamanism course myself too which has been interesting as there are only two men in the class. I still struggle with not feeling enough, or being a failure to others. I still burden myself for others, especially women that need help. I beat myself up for not being able to find a partner and start a family and provide for them. I just keep reminding myself that I am enough, I am alive and I am. Not broken or less than or a failure. At least being able to recognize lots of this helps with healing.
Thank you for this video Kathrin. Thank you for allowing a space in your comments for this too. It's amazing how much it helps when stuff like this is acknowledged and heard. Glad I've found your videos!
I'm so sorry for the pain you had to endure, thank you for sharing your experience and for your kind words about my channel, I think many men will find resonance in your words. Love and solidarity!
A lot of my gender dysphoria and even trauma around self-worth related issues were centered around social engineering I went through as a male, as someone who is bigender and presents as fem often. "Be a man" is a trigger phrase that will automatically make me resentful of the person.
I think I hit the "Notify me" button like 50 times
thank you!! I really hope it resonates!
You're the first woman I've ever seen talk about the male experience with empathy, you seem to have a genuine and a kind nature, i hope you the best.
thank you!
My dad thought he was being feminist by holding me to the same standards that he thinks boys are/should be held to.... "Not like other girls" since birth
(I'm nonbinary and he thinks he's being supportive of that now too.....)
urgh I hate the ''not like other girls'' thing, I've been manic pixie dream-girled most of my life too and it sucks
@@Kathrin_yt I'm bipolar and autistic so his efforts didn't work. I was more of a confused "manic pixie not like other dream-girls"
Since i started watching your channel, you completely changed the trajectory to the kind of person i am and want to be and the basis of how i engage with politics. Now Im always committed to being honest, vulnerable and kind.
this is one of my favourite comments I've received ever - thank you!! 💞
It is exactly this type of "success" or "accomplishment" that is not encouraged or incentivized enough.
Well done! 👍🏾
I had my lucky breakthrough some time ago, but Kathrin is really good at this.
Congratulations on finding a new path for yourself, best of luck.
I'm 29 now. I cried really easy when I was young (and all the way up to middle school/high school really). It's really embarrassing at that age, and especially when you're a boy. Add the fact that I was using glasses, not into football/soccer and a bookworm/good at school, and you have an unwanted cocktail. I really struggled with my confidence, and felt a lot of selfdoubt. I eventually "grew out" the crying, which felt really great in the beggining. But after some time I sort of wanted to have a lower threshold for my crying, if that makes any sense. Venting your feelings and frustrations frequently is really healthy. I cry every once in a while, and I'm not ashamed of it, but I do wish I did it more often. I do wonder if my subconsciousness "holds it back", after several bad memories from crying from childhood. My selfconfidence have never been great, and I do wonder if the "easy-crying" in my younger years has a lot to do with that.
(My mother got really sick a couple of years ago. It has been absolutely devastating, and in the early stages I cried a lot. After I was over the "denial-stage", after reality had set in, and after the new everyday life had gone on for a while, I cried significantly less. You can get used to a lot of awful and painful things. But I do cry every once in a while when I visit her.)
I really love this journey of reclamation of crying! It's such a healthy form of release that is so vital to our well-being, and so sad so many men and boys are denied that fundamental need! Thank you for sharing your experience!
@@Kathrin_yt Thank you for your reply, and your great video(s)
(I also had insecurities regarding my penis size and height when I was younger. Thought I might as well mention it, since it was mentioned in the video. I also lost my virginity really late (last year), so that was a part of my insecurities as well.)
@@CarlFredrik-uo1cu thanks for your honesty and vulnerability, I think a lot of people in the comments section will relate!
@@CarlFredrik-uo1cu how did you lose it? I am also struggling with both.
I am so happy I found your channel. You are truly a breath of fresh air to listen to
thanks so much!!
richness of my inner world, well, i was never allowed to create one
I have no doubt you do, just haven't perhaps been able to see it or listen to it. Or else it's never too late to develop one ☺
Wonderful video. For me talking about toxic masculinity/patriarchy and how it damages men has always been a big topic of conversation. I had a more emotional intelligent father, still with his own damage, but considering he was a nam vet it was more than many would expect (and a true male feminist though he wouldn't call himself one). I also witnessed many of his nam buddies that didn't fair too well, not only from war but childhood trauma.
I like to chat with not just my boyfriends but men in general about these issues, and have changed many opinions on such matters. I was also just talking to a male friend about how the manosphere targets hurt men for finical gain, but only really end up hurting the men more. When I talk to men in the sphere I don't feel hate towards them but more so pity. They didn't grow up in a world where they could express their feelings (as you touched on why many revert to more violent ways as it is socially acceptable) and their trauma (many times from toxic women) gets over looked and ignored.
I will be sending thos video to many of the men I have these conversations with.
I so relate to this being a big topic of conversation for me too and pitying them rather than hating them. Thank you for both sharing your experience and sharing my video with those men!
Performance anxiety…….. you hit the nail on the head with that one… I have rejected women who were sexually attracted to me. Why? Because I was ~horrified~ of the thought of not performing well, and having the woman belittle me and storm out. Because I knew I’d have *nobody* to talk to because any guy would likely have made fun of me for it
I have tried telling women about this sometimes, and they usually ghost me. And then even therapists have said “ya know dude, she interpreted that as you not being attracted to her. Next time, don’t tell the woman. Just focus on her, get out of your head, and hope for the best”
……wow okay, so I’m not allowed to ask for reassurance regarding literally my biggest insecurity of all???
I agree you should absolutely be able to voice insecurities, your comfort and bodily integrity is important!
@@Kathrin_yt oh wow thanks so much for replying!
My mother is most aggressive, emotionally neglecting, controlling person. She literally policed my feelings I could never express how I feel. I never had a loving mother. It got so bad I sought a mother figure in my life because I never felt love.
She would always label me as "rude or disrespectful" anytime I call her out on her accountability. Everytime I was honest she would get angry how it makes her look. She even got mad at me because I was sick for "too long" the lack of compassion is astounding. She is the reason why I am *scared* to open up to people because fear of being scolded and yelled at.
I'm mexican 29, i am 5"10. My older brother is 6"4ft. He is the definition of toxic masculinity. He is arrogant and obnoxious. He always objectifies women. He always mocked my vulnerabilities. It always felt like a competition with him. He doesn't like my emotions. Mexican culture is very old school, especially in machismo. My brother takes enjoyment, making me feel small.
Would I be correct in assuming your brother has no problem finding intimate relationships with women? (Not an attack you, just a hunch from reading your comment)
This is an ode to my father. Patriarchy was enforced on me, and i was excluded socially for not really fitting into broader masculine behaviorisms in my school years. The whole fitting into society has been an uphill battle ever since.... But my father never pushed it onto me, he has never shamed me or told me to man up or leashed out at me for not confirming to the norm of how boys behave and what they take up interest in.
And its a bit paradoxical, because on surface he would appear as the epitome of toxic masculinity; did not really have a language for esxpressing emotions, wild beard and hair in all directions, a farmer, a retired sailor, chainsaws, wood felling, in the 70s he was somewhat of a druglord, he was hard as nails and a notorious brawler, drank lots of alcohol and had a really harsh tone, full of bullshit. lawless and completely ungowernable.
But he never tried to push me into being anything other than myself, and no matter what wierd interest i got into he would encourage me. When i learned about the board game HeroQuest, my dad would say it lacked the Hobbit, I asked what a Hobbit was, and he would tell me about these books he read while in prison (even though he was somewhat dyslexic) - and therefore before i turned 12 I had read both the Hobbit, LOTR and silmarillion.
He taught me to be ungovernable and dont give a fuck about what society thinks and expect.... An while the preassure from society can force or threathen me into expected roles, i always have this urge to break out, that erupts into... ehm... breakouts.
This was an incredibly insightful video, that dealt extremely well with a LOT of difficult topics, and left no group off the hook for the problems which may lie with it. Thank you for the intelligence, empathy, and perceptiveness with which you explored the topics and groups herein. From a man in his fifties.
thank you so much!!
“To be privileged sometimes costs us the clarity of vision needed to see through the bullshit” is the most real quote I’ve ever heard
thank you!!
I'm a man, a feminist, a new subscriber, and very appreciative of the detail and thoughtfulness that was put into this. Truly thank you
thank you!
You are a sub human. Being a male fem is like being a Jewish national socialist
Thank you for this video.
I did know everything in it, but not in one single comprehensive video. I am working on myself with this information for two years now.
Sadly it is too late for my last relationship and preventing my depression and resulting unemployment. But i am on the way of dealing with my emotions and learning to express them healthy.
I really love your videos.❤
thank you! and kudos to you for doing this work the last 2 years, it's not easy!
This one cut deep, great work
thanks so much, I'm happy it resonated with you 💖
I’m a trans man. I put off transitioning for a long time as my only strength is my emotional intelligence. I felt I failed at masculinity before I started: I’m short, poor, skinny and worst of all don’t have a p*nis aha. I was also scared of losing the intimacy and honesty of female friendships. I don’t know where I fit into this discussion… I just know patriarchy sucks for both men and women and I can attest as I’ve experienced both.
This is an experience I hear over and over again from trans comrades, who knows how many people prevent their transition for these reasons. Thank you for sharing your experience! There's a great trans youtuber Swolesome who discusses his experience that may resonate, if you haven't already heard of him.
@@Kathrin_yt I will check him out thanks for the suggestion!
Gender identity is a deep-rooted part of who we are, and transitioning often allows us to feel more authentic and connected to ourselves. As a fellow trans man, I feel you about being short, poor, and not having a specific body part! It helps to keep in mind that people are a spectrum. Not all men are 6 feet tall, rich, and super strong and I've met a few cis men who aren't much larger down there than I am (and I've only had a simple release meta)!
It's also important to remember that masculinity is a social construct, and it doesn't have to conform to any particular stereotype. Your physical appearance, financial status, and sexual orientation don't define your masculinity. What matters most is how you feel inside. Since I've transitioned, I've changed a lot externally, but I'm still _me_ and who I am hasn't really changed all that much. :)
@@PublicUniversalFriend69 welcome to being a man! It's fun but also kind of fucked up.
There’s a famous video of a transgender man crying when he realized how lonely it is to be a man, and how everybody immediately avoids him and assumes he’s a bad guy
Now of course he points out we need to *understand* WHY women are often afraid of men, but that doesn’t mean we can’t empathize with men who mean well
I found this video through the bropill subreddit, a forum for men to discuss and help each other in earnest ways, giving each other space to be vulnerable and seek advice from each other.
It was a great watch, and by the end I was definitively touched. Specially at 35:52, as a man who has had to essentially excise a lot of what made me "me", it's really hard trying to essentially reconnect with myself, and this question just hit me in the gut, it brought me close to tears, and some day, I hope I do cry when I hear these questions, and it will be because I understand that it's alright.
Thanks a lot for the amazing video, for the great perspective, and for advocating for men.
thanks so much!!
Am I hearing the SRSLY Wrong boys doing a cameo!? Nice work.
UPDATE: Hearing lots of awesome male creators cameo on this one. Thank you, this was great!
haha yess!
My little brother was such a sweet, if irritating, child. He went into the military and now we don't speak. I don't know who that guy is anymore and it's horrible. I thought we were close, but I guess we weren't.
Black malehood is arguably more violent. And so is military training. It destroys families and bonds.
My father was forced into retirement last week. He exits his job within the month. I am relieved because it means he can start to heal, but I also hurt for him because I know he feels he's failing as a man. And reality is he failed when he signed up to be a cruel person to keep his job the last two and a half decades. But he's miserable. Hopefully he becomes more of the man who raised me again with some rest. I feel like ALL men are burnt out and it shows in how they communicate with everyone else.
I've always held that men are hurt as much by patriarchy as non-men. I would argue it hurts them the most because it causes them to lash out at the ones who would love to be there for them causing isolation and a vicious cycle of spiraling downward. Being a man should be allowed to be more nuanced than it is.
I ALSO hold that if one's feminism does not include men, it is chauvinism of another sort. I am not in community with people like that.
Edited to add that as a queer BIPOC? We are desexed and often shoved into behaving the way men are expected to, regardless of gender, or performing gender even harder. So I think this impacts everyone super intensely and the more layers of marginalization one has, the more awful and messed up it gets.
I also want to point out how differently the SA of Antwon Fisher is handled in the film (I might have spelled that wrong) and how important that was for me growing up to understanding how wrong that is no matter who the victim was.
thank you for sharing your experiences! I hope your dad and brother are able to find help and healing. It sucks when we see the people we love struggling in these ways. Sending love and solidarity!
I was lucky enough to be raised primarily by my mother, who was a therapist and understood the issues with how boys are raised. But even so, I can feel the eerie societal pressure at all times. The ever-present expectation that I should be something that I'm not. Fantastic video. Subbed.
Thank you and thanks for sharing your experience!
Hi Kathrin! Not sure if you remember me - I'm Amber, and I met you in my first year of uni when we were doing some activism stuff together.
The opening anecdote of this video hit me like a truck, and I adore how you ended up tackling a subject like this (one that a lot of our contemporaries are very quick to downplay or shy away from) with such empathy and grace.
There are men in my life that I have been seeing are in pain for so long, and it physically hurts that this is such a big issue that isn't being handled with the respect and care it deserves.
Thank you so much for this video ❤
Great examples of "healthy masculinity" characters:
Atticus Finch - To Kill A Mockingbird
Rocky Balboa - Rocky (and its sequels)
Kyle Reese - The Terminator
Aragorn - Lord of the Rings
Angus MacGyver - MacGyver
edit: George Bailey - It's A Wonderful Life
ooh thanks for sharing, what a great idea!
also Aragorn was my biggest crush growing up
Sarah Connor & Model 101- T2. Wait, what is masculinity again?
Aragorn is the goat
Mr. Fred Rogers comes to mind as an example of strong positive masculinity.
Bell Hooks should be required reading for everyone, especially men
💯
Why should I read a book from someone that can’t even take care of themselves? 🤣
*There are many types of men, some are naturally strong and tough: they end up becoming soldiers, police officers, politicians, criminals, etc. Others are sensitive and become poets, singers and artists. But I think that the majority are neither tough nor sensitive, they are just “normal” somewhat indifferent to sentimentality and tough and aggressive behavior.*
A fantastic, nuanced video. Thank you.
thanks so much!!
Great stuff once again. Thank you.
Thanks again!
very insightful video. What a toxic system
thanks so much for the superchat!! Really appreciate it. It's going towards my new audio fund ❤
well if you aren't alpha giga chad man, everyone will ask what's wrong with you, question you're sexuality, and finds ways to demean or invalidate you.
I’m sorry this has been your experience
I’m sorry this has been your experience
And women will ridicule you
33yr old Man here.
I really hope you make waves. You have really touched me emotionally.
I've always been an out of the norm, more empathetic and softer male and luckily I knew how to navigate that while also being straight, but I've still had my pain and troubles and have known many that have as well.
I hope for a kinder more understanding and forgiving world in the future where people can see and accept more than just the stereotypes where men and women can find more attractive than just the typical.
Where we can give a space for more people to rest and communicate openly about their experiences.
thank you so much, I'm very happy the video resonated with you!
My own experience or takeaway might take a few days to sort out, so in the meantime I'll just leave this here for the algo,
and a sincere thank you for making this video!
thank you 💕
The quote regarding violence being masculinity is definitely one im going to have to hang onto.
One of the things I discuss with the kind of girlboss feminist types when engaged in those conversations is regarding what I like to call the "escape vector" from toxic masculinity. Many men in my life have not had an avenue from which they can escape Patriarchy's effect on their psyche. They, much like the story of the man petting the cat, are stuck within a prison of learned behavior and ideology that inculcates a profound sense of alienation and dissociative behavior that cleaves them from their emotional inner self. From the time a man is born, he is forged into a weapon by social forces beyond his understanding. A weapon that will be turned outward upon the world, or inward upon himself.
My escape vector ended up being my queerness and self discovery. Even as alienated as I was from the identity of "man" and "straight" I was haunted every step of the way by both men and women placing expectations and boundaries upon the acceptable behavior as determined by my assigned gender. Even with loving and supportive parents, every aspect of the world around me enforced the idea that I must provide and be "of use" to others. To my eventual job. To society. Coming to terms with my sexuality and gender identity was a component of my escape from masculinity, though I will never truly escape it as the world around me is bound within the confines of Patriarchy and gender.
One of those foundational moments where I saw what I did not want to become was when my now husband, then girlfriend, was dealing with a severe bout of depression alongside suicidal ideation and self harm. My husband was in the hospital, and I was visiting as I did every day he was there. My dad decided to visit and sat with us in the room and I watched my father PLEAD for my husband in the most pained way I had ever seen. He was awkward, stilted, upset and deeply uncomfortable as he tried to find a way to tell my husband to not commit suicide. In that moment, he was reliving something I had barely heard him speak about over the course of my life. He tried so very hard to stop himself from crying but found himself doing so anyway. It was the second time I'd ever seen him cry, the first being his grandmother's funeral.
In that moment, at that hospital, he was reliving the trauma of his uncle's suicide, a man who had been like a brother to him growing up. He was crying and nearly unable to choke through his request, talking about how profoundly painful suicide is for those who are closest to the victim. I saw him and knew that I didn't want to hold onto a pain like that for that long, something that had gone almost entirely unspoken of in the 4 decades since.
Each person boxed within the concept of "man" feels as though they are doomed to chase this unattainable ideal of successful, quiet stoicism, a life where they are divorced from the person within, forever cursed to exist as a being that can never truly be seen. Each man is a performance, his act a hollow shell that hides the pained child within, forever shouting for a world unwilling to see him.
Thank you for this. May we wish for a better, kinder world in which men are no longer forged and instead are grown, their roots a foundation for the person they wish to become.
wow this made me cry to read, what a beautifully haunting experience in the hospital, thank you so much for sharing! ❤
Thanks for discussing this. My and other men's pain is part of my daily experience, and your analysis of it makes a lot of sense to me.
thank you!!
This is an incredible video all the way through. I particularly appreciate your vulnerability in being willing to admit your own internalized patriarchal reactions to male partners. It’s easy for someone to say, “some women become less attracted to their male partners when those men start to be more in touch with their emotional, expressive selves,” and much harder to own that YOU have personally felt that. Your honesty makes it easier for other women who date men (and anyone attracted to men) to recognize that in themselves and work to change it.
I’m nonbinary and AMAB, and this shit 100% affects me too, even though I’ve been able to free myself from some of it. I can name masculine norms and not identify with them in the slightest, but the reality of the world responding to me as if I’m a man makes it hard for me to express my full self, in part because I often feel it’s not welcome (which is sometimes accurate and sometimes a projection of earlier life experiences). In my current environment, people often segregate along gender lines when interacting in group spaces, which makes it very difficult for me to cultivate a sense of connection because the women’s spaces generally feel like they’re not “for me,” and the men’s spaces don’t really feel like any substantive human connection is happening. I’ve been trying to build and cultivate more individual connections and build bridges between those people to create a more expansive, inclusive community that allows (among other things) for the dismantling of patriarchal norms and ideologies, but it’s TOUGH.
Your words are consistent with an ideal of grace and compassion. Thank you for sharing your videos with us, Kathrin.
Thank you ❤
Thank you ❤
I was raised by my mom for the most part of my childhood and have been characterized as "conservative, handsome, and strong" in appearance, but I'm strongly left leaning (in the US). Both of my former long term partners were at least neoliberal. The first burned through my paychecks and said we had her parents to fall back on, so we wouldn't have to worry about money. The second didn't use my money directly, but wanted me to do work on her house, which would cost money. I told both that I wanted to go to school and/or get into a different field after they were finished with their classes and secured work. Both achieved what they wanted, never lowered expenditures (I have a fear of spending money due to childhood poverty and being homeless), and constantly had more and more material demands, ultimately cheating on me by the end. The first just left after caught, I don't recall there being a formal "break up", I formally cut the second when I admitted to myself that I let it happen again. First treated me like I couldn't harm a fly by the end, the second said she's afraid of me (I've NEVER been violent towards women, saw enough when I was a kid with my mom, second ex did have severe anxiety though).
I don't want my identity tied to how much money I make (though I make good money now despite my upbringing), i don't want to be tethered to wanting sex. I want to find people that enjoy life like I do, which doesnt require a lot of spending, but it's hard in a world build on consumerism and I feel like I'm mostly viewed through patriarchal "value" tiers that even many women here have come to coopt into their worldview. I'm afraid that the toxic masculinity that we say we're against has seeped too deeply into us, my "strong conservative" appearance only gets me so far now.
I just want to exist, help others exist, help build structure that everyone can agree on, and be happy or content.
*Note: I don't like to add to these convos often because I have too much to say and feel that I never present well when I don't plan it out more, but I'm trying to not let paralysis by analysis inhibit me on this thoughtful video.
Full time man here: I’ve been trying to unlearn a lot of really horrific unintentional patriarchy and self loathing I’ve picked up. It’s tricky and often feels counter intuitive/unreal… but the alternative just begets misery.
I’m incredibly lucky in having generally very loving and supportive men in my life, so I can’t imagine what other men who don’t must feel like all the time. One guy whom I spent a lot of time with became very contemptuous of women, lgbtq+ people and really just anyone that didn’t automatically subscribe to Jordan petersons way of thinking. Tried many times to get him to look at the world in a less aggressive, “might = right” sort of way but it’s too entrenched in him. Often wonder what could have been done differently to bring out that sweet, generous man whom I know is in there. Hope you come back one day, Josh.
kudos to you for doing this work, it's not easy to do! Really touched me, your last sentence, I think we all know a Josh we hope will come back one day ❤
@@Kathrin_yt also just want to say that last year I had a bit of a mental health crisis and watching your videos helped me put some words to what I was going through- so thank you for that.
@@Garbageman28 I'm sorry for the crisis you went through, but am so happy to hear these videos could be a little glimmer of light in the darkness!
Your hope is not necessarily futile. The fact that you've recognized how the "intuitively" of misogynistic ideas is one that you were taught and not necessarily a naturally occurung "intuition" shows great progression!
I've worked with hundreds of boys deemed "irreversibly" damaged by the legal system turn into caring, compassionate young men with bright and happy futures.
It can and does happen. It can happen for Josh.
😊
As a 'transformed' Josh, I hope my brethren in name comes around😂
"Be a man". And yet "you're such a girl" is the worst insult.
My father has everything a man could want except for a family that loves him.
Me and my brother did everything we could to move ahead with our lives but we have been nearly killed by his words several times.
I want to trust and to love and be one with someone, but all the hurt makes it impossible.
Yeah as guy who has embraced feminism and queerness since the 90's one of the things I've learnt is that it's fine to show those traits in those public spaces but once you open up (as a "man" to a "woman") and be more vulnerable in an intimate setting you get rejected. Fortunately I didn't see it as a gender thing rather a human thing that has different expressions based on social context. Otherwise I very much could see the appeal of the manosphere types and their over simplifications. All the best lies have a grain of truth at their core.
I'm sorry this has been your experience! Thank you for sharing!
As always, every feminist's opinion on male problems boils down to "Men, you need to be better.."
As far as the "internal world" of men thing you talk about. Not every man is a sensitive artist in denial, some men are really like that -- simple, straightforward, brusque dudes rooted in physical action and less so in their own emotions and interiority. In general, there's a lot of variance in male behavior bc of the, "male variability hypothesis."
And you talk about your brother or cousin or whatever as if he was pitiable for being more interested in mechanics and fixing cars than anthropology. He seems happy the way he is
Genius. Thank you so much for this.
thank you!!
Your voice, (in more ways than one), is that of an Angel
God Bless & Protect You & Your Sweet Beautiful Heart
thanks so much!
I never liked the idea of manliness.
As a kid, I was a little bit rough with my friends. I was bigger than my peers then, so sometimes I would tackle them even down to the ground, not to hurt them ofc. It was all in good fun in my head.
One day, I was playing around with my friend, I felt he was scared of me and that he was intimidated by me.
It scared me. It scared me to think that I might hurt people and others could be afraid of me. I never wanted to feel like that again. I don't want to hurt people physically or emotionally. I always double-check myself from saying something random that might offend them. I wish everyone just got along.
Years later, still in elementary school, I see my classmate. And I try to run up and say hi. I remember her running and screaming, as if I was going to hurt her or something.
I stopped asserting myself. I grew timid and soft spoken. I wanted to be the least threatening guy in the room.
But some people will automatically see you as a potential threat, a dormant criminal, a predator in disguise. I'd be emotionally devastated if someone felt I was creepy or I was forcing myself onto them or abusing them in any sort of way.
It's frankly deeply upsetting, thinking a random person walking by me might see me and think 'oh I better have a weapon ready in case he wants to rape me, or take my stuff.'
Along with other garbage and pressures that comes with being a man, it fills me with doubt and fear and makes my guts wrench. It enwraps me with regentment and shame for being born a man.
It immobilizes and makes me second guess everything when it comes to intimacy and dating.
Perhaps a bit off the rails, but I needed to unpack some deep frustrations.
Thank you for making this video and highlighting the issues we face.
Thanks so much for sharing, I think this is an all too common experience, and deeply heart-breaking!
Your words are healing - reminding me that we are HUMAN.
@@TimoDcTheLikelyLad ❤️
You mean the species that destroys the earth and violates itsself? Yes, truly wonderful.
This is probably the best video I've seen about feminism and men. I've acknowledged that feminism and gender theory are perfect to go up against male toxic masculinity, but I also acknowledge that the girl boss white girl feminism of the 2010s really pushed back men and it's only being repaired now that younger people are overall more progressive and understanding and willing to be more open
thanks so much!
Being a CSA survivor has nothing to do with patriarchy. My abuser was female.
I remember my forcing me to play football even though I found it very painful and miserable, it took me being concussed several times and being maimed to let me quit. It became clear later in life that he was forcing me to do it because he himself felt inadequate as a man, he thought by making me live up to that role he would spare me the pain he himself was going through later in life. It took a lot to forgive him for that but seeing in my own life how difficult it is to live up to masculinity and the repercussions for not doing so has helped me at least understand him. Absent acceptance the body cannibalizes the self and what's left is just trying to survive.
It's interesting because it goes to show how a lot of the indoctrination into manhood is born out of a desire to protect those we love from the fates we ourselves suffered. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience!
Thank you so much Kathrin! I love your videos on you deal with sensitive and emotionally charged topics with such compassion and understanding and willingness to get to the root of the issue. Excellent video as usual.
Men are judged by their capacity to influence reality and not experience it. You are applauded for mastering a form of power (creative or destructive) but never thought how to appreciate its consequences. In this sense a mans pain is only relevant to drive up his competitive performance. For men to be vulnerable, they must first take a risk to suffer in a world where that pain has no inherent value.
As a man, I have an intimate understanding of this, either from my own life or the lives of the countless men I've known.
As a feminist/ally I frequently find myself in spaces (especially online) where these things are clearly not well understood, but I daren't speak up because I know it would be interpreted as pushing back on feminism, rather than trying to use my own lived experience to strengthen it.
I don't even blame people for this - there are so many anti-feminists around using all sorts of (occasionally subtle) troll tactics, so I get why people often assume the worst.
We desperately need more voices like yours if we're ever going to build a better world for everyone.
Thank you so much for talking about this.
Thank you I struggle with all this every day and it fucking sucks. This video is really well put together and I actually feel somewhat heard from seeing it today, thank you
thank you, I'm glad it helped you feel heard!
Happily, my family has always been emotionally open with each other, but one thing that I was reminded of when you talk about the mask of masculinity was the season of The Wire where the retired police captain joins other teachers wanting to deal with disruptive and aggressive schoolchildren who go onto become drug dealers. They meet an 18 year old and after trying to talk with him get nothing but abuse and rejection, and realise that he's too "seasoned", his 'mask' too hard, and decide to talk to younger students as they still have some emotional openness and their masks and hardness still brittle and not yet iron.
It seems like the most popular understanding of patriarchy is one that makes it sound more like an emotional state than a material reality. Even if every human had the tools to liberate themselves from the psychological hold it has, the material gains and relatively comfortable position on the social hierarchy will be too intoxicating to sacrifice.
I definitely didn't mean to make patriarchy out to be simply an emotional state, I think your point is very valid though, in future I think I will do a better job of making clear what it is I'm referring to. But that's also why I emphasise the need for external systemic change and need for internal work. I think we need both.
@@Kathrin_yt I agree. I didn’t mean to criticize your video or perspective in particular. It just seems to be a noticeably common approach in Western gender discourse.
I really like bell hooks' articulation of patriarchy as part of 'dominator culture' - that patriarchy is part and parcel of a single, multifaceted system of oppression. E.g. "imperialist capitalist white supremacist patriarchy" - now updated with "ableist" and "cis hetero normative" qualifiers as well.
@@LoneWulf278 don't worry I didn't take it as a direct critique, just got me reflecting on what I was saying. Thanks for sharing your perspective!
@@crazymusicman13 yes I love this!!
As a man I really haven't really had any much to do with the whole patriarchy thing, I've spent nearly all my life outside of society. I found out at 40 I'm dyslexic and autistic, never been in a relationship and I'm mid 40's now, this video started off okay but I couldn't get to the end when every third word was patriarchy.
I felt like I just listened to an old, wise shaman. Mahalo!
thank you!! ❤
Thank you so much for this. Felt like a hug. Love and solidarity from India.
❤
I love this video and agree 100%. However, as a woman who has been hurt and traumatized by men and the patriarchal behaviors and scripts they've internalized, I struggle with what my responsibility is as a feminist. I do care deeply about men and their pain, and I believe that our liberation is tied up with theirs. But at the same time, I feel a need to protect myself from them and the very real psychological, emotional, and possibly physical harm they can and have afflicted on me. What can I do as a feminist when the men I consider comrades who I want to help don't want to help themselves? To give up patriarchy is to give up their higher place in the hierarchy (really to give up the hierarchy altogether), and if what hooks and Real have said is true, being one-up or above me is the only thing that gives them a sense of identity. This is a bit rambly but as a woman who loves and partners with men and as a feminist, I struggle with the questions.
This is a very real and relatable dilemma! It’s tempting to offer you practical solutions, but honestly the truer thing coming up for me in response to what you are saying is that I'm beginning to see the value in doing nothing, especially when I feel stuck or exhausted. When faced with a problem I can’t solve or when everything feels uncertain, the best course of action might be to simply step back and let go. It’s often in those empty spaces, free from the pressure to act, that the answers to the conundrums we face emerge-sometimes unexpectedly.
This isn’t a rejection of action or a call for passivity. Action has its place, and there are times when urgency is necessary. There is a time to act, and there is a time to wait, listen, and observe. In these quiet moments, those resting phases, understanding and clarity can take root. Things come to us in dreams, chance encounters, serendipitous moments, once we are still, open-eyed and listening. From that place we can better know how to respond (or not respond) to these men, and be of service to that which is our work to do/our contribution to make in this brief time on earth.
@@Kathrin_yt thanks so much for your thoughtful reply ♥️ I think that's great advice
You are completely wrong. We are not higher on the hierarchy. You are
This woman gets it.
I've done all the work, opened up, faced my trauma, learned to be vulnerable, forgave my father, all of it. And yet, I still have to be a man everyday, and show my colleagues, clients and family I know how to perform what is required of me. Knowing masculinity is a performance doesn't make it more pleasant, on the contrary, and working on the self can only go so far
Men are taught that being vulnerable they will lead to being abandoned. That is a very motivating threat when you're desperately lonely and disconnected already.
Great video! So much truth you said! I think everyone suffers just because this world is a subway.
the mask of masculinity has left me spiritually deformed.
i’m nearly 30 and i’ve only started understanding myself in any meaningful capacity. i’ve been a tyrant, a brute, a monster, all under the guise of “being a man.”
i lucked out in a sense because my father drank himself to an early grave, forcing me to reevaluate my concept of manhood.
i hope one day i can be a real person
I deeply resent having been born a male. I've been made to feel like a monster all my life, not for my actions but for something I have no control over. I would transition if I could, but it's just not in the cards for me, so now I struggle every single day with my personal identity. I honestly would have ended myself a long time ago if it weren't for my parents, but I won't always have them. I have no idea what to do going forward, and it scares the shit out of me.
My dad did the same thing when he had a stroke, sat there like nothing was wrong…
But also, the opening story and painting of the cat and steps really spoke to me. I paused the video and stared at the piece for a few moments as I sympathized with his headspace.
While most men who NEED to see this probably will never, it is important for male viewers to take this message to their male friend circles and emulate it. We must uplift another and remember a persons life can sometimes be just a friendly text away from having a very different outcome
I'm glad that the video resonated with you!! thank you for sharing your experience! ❤
This video makes me think of my dad. My dad tries to be strong and independent, but it's really to the detriment of himself and his family. My dad once lost his job due to his chronic illness and he was nervous telling my mom so instead he started "lending" money from her without telling her until he got a new job, but she found out. This lead to their divorce and my mom's mental illnesses (DID/psychosis/bipolar) flared up from the betrayal. I think my dad is also honestly just scared to face the fact that he's been messing up his entire life and wasting it on a toxic relationship and that he could have stopped his four kids from developing severe trauma disorders if he'd just had accepted help and been able to acknowledge that his wife was abusive towards him and their kids. We (my siblings and I) tried so many times to make my dad divorce our mom, but he would just get mad at us. He wouldn't be open about *what* my mom did, and I think a lot of it is because he's ashamed that he's letting himself be treated like this, so he has to fool himself into thinking that he's okay with this and that everything is fine. I've never seen him cry, not even when his mom died. He seems much happier nowadays, but I can't help but sense that he's feeling shameful and an intense loneliness that he can't admit to, because he wouldn't even know what to do with it. It's very sad, but I've given up on trying to save him
Sorry for "trauma dumping", but idk maybe this little anecdote might resonate with someone else reading through the comments
No need to apologise, I very much appreciate you sharing your experience and thoughts, it's heart-breaking to hear what you and your dad went through and especially how men are forced to internalise abuse as a personal failing! Thank you for sharing!
I agree with everything said. However violence is not always caused by pain, but often if not most of the time, by desire to dominate. We are animals after all, and animals fight for food and reproduction. Empires and colonies were built on ego and opression of others, for the pure pleasure of conquering and claiming one's greatness.
Excellent video. I saw The Mask We Live In some years ago and it's a very jarring documentary. As a 59 yo cod white hetero man, I've been subjected to all this too. I've been lucky to break out of this way of thinking with a great partner support system. I feel so lucky.
Thank you! And am very happy you’ve been able to break free! Kudos to you for doing this work!
I’ve honestly wished that each woman could live as a man for 1 month, and understand the experience of their brothers on this earth.
I think what women would, would be a lot to grieve though:
1.) that this disparity of agency and physical power was not consented to, even by the boys who were born onto the more advantageous side of culture and in some respects nature. No one thinks a variance in violent capabilities makes the world a safe place to be. And unfortunately, boys don’t get to feel safe either.
2.) that people with male bodies are often seen (for good reason) as a threat until proven friend, which is an alienating thing to not be seen as you, or even a person until others know you aren’t going to use your form as a weapon.
3.) that you aren’t allowed to need social support, even when you’re allowed to have it, it should be few and far between. Social support is seen for men, like an oil change, do it once every several thousand miles or whatever, then just be good to go without any problems for the next several thousand.
4.) that there is a massive difference in the level of patience men are granted in repeating relationship mistakes. We all know women who fall into certain personality ruts where she keeps seeing the same kind of toxic behaviors around multiple partners, and when she needs to vent, her friends still offer support (which is great). As a man, if the pattern repeats at all, you lose that support, because the way its seen is that you should have learned the first time, therefore you’re unworthy of patience and sympathy about this topic.
5.) and the largest thing I think women would learn from this, is that the solution to every problem, for boys, was to become more capable. It would take a long time to list all of the commonplace examples of this, but the short of it, is that if you’re a boy and your in pain, its your fault for not being better. Get better and the pain goes away, if you can’t win praise you don’t deserve it, if you can’t earn love, you don’t deserve it, etc. Etc. Etc. The damning thing about teaching half the population this, is these boys are neglected and abused into being hyper-independent men who believe you have to take what you want from life, because it will not be given. And then they are hungry ghosts taking every substitute for love they can find.
I think a world where all men have to live as women for a year and all women have to live as men for a year would be a much better world.
You have a very gentle and pretty voice. You should narrate audiobooks. ❤
I'm glad that you made a video about this. It's not a thing that is easy to talk about. As you pointed out, there are bad actors who look to take advantage of these feelings.
I'm extremely for the liberation of women. But it seems like men also need a liberation. I have three sons and a daughter. I'm not about to teach my daughter to be subservient, but her brothers need something too.
I don't know what the solution is. It's such a difficult and nuanced issue. It's hard to describe a nonmaterial problem (even if it has material results) and be taken seriously (even by yourself).
I totally agree! I imagine in many ways it must be harder to raise boys than girls these days - kudos to you for trying to revolutionise how you are raising children!
Thank you for this fantastic well researched video! You make some of the best video essays talking about these kinds of issues on TH-cam!
@@rkleinfall thank you so much!! 🥰
a lot of the stuff in this video is really gonna stick with me. Thank you.
I'm happy to hear that!