We Need to Talk About the Zendrive (and then I'll Shut Up About it, I promise)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2024
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Chatted with @fivewattworld and @JakeLoosemore a little more about the Zendrive. Oh and DeepJimpact too.
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We need to talk about titling every video that we need to talk about something 😂
How about "you need to hear me talk about... "
I think I’d like, “Listen to this” better lol
"I was wrong about xx"
Your playing is the epitome of “it’s all in the fingers”. You play amps, modelers, pedals……whatever and it simply sounds like you. No matter what rig you’re using; it’s all VERY similar in tone at the end of day. And there’s certainly nothing wrong with that. Great channel. Thanks.
I agree! It always sounds like John no matter what gear he uses. Same with the dude from the studio rats, he always sounds like himself. Great players can use any gear.
My best advice would be for people to try things and get the things that allow them to express themselves the best whether that’s budget, expensive, analog or digital. And there’s no reason you can’t have a mixture.
it's because he uses the gear that can achieve similar sounds. you can't make a stockfender princeton sound like a dimed out mark IIC++. yes, his phrasing is recognizable, but the tones don't depend on the fucking fingers.
@@cunjoz I never said or even implied that. My point was IN THIS CASE; John gets a similar sound no matter what he uses. Just Van Halen’s of Jeff Beck’s playing is instantly recognizable no matter what they pick up. That’s the player; not the gear. Lighten up…..
I have the one with the tube. Zendrive 2. I love it. Wouldn’t sell it for anything. Some pedals are just keepers. My Zen is one of them. Alphonse Hermida is a circuit genius.
I have quite a number of tube overdrives, including 4 Kingsley pedals. (I really want to try his Artisan). The Zen is still the one I would keep if forced to choose just 1.
I was going to give you 10,000 for it but you wouldn’t take it.
@@forester057it’s a great sounding pedal. 10 grand is a good starting point if you want to enter into negotiations.
I'm not paying $600 for a drive pedal. The end.
Joyo Taichi for the win!
If you know how to solder, the AionFX Azimuth kit is only $80 (including all components and a painted enclosure).
Just buy it and solder it together. The Zendrive has only 30 parts.
237 $ from love pedal. From The builder not a clone In stock. .I think it sounds exactly the same as older one s
But he's trying so hard, come on :)).
Famous last words. ;)
I did the zen demo way back when on Alf's old site using a Revelation BT. We were very close back then. What an amazing man! I had a shoulder problem that put me down for the count and I had to stop playing for quite a while so eventually everything had to go to survive. My zen and the heavily chopped up tele I had played for 40 years ( can you imagine? ) were the last things to go to keep a roof over my head. Happily I'm back at it with a $99 Squire and am grateful for it. I hope that story explains how well the zen worked for me. By far the best drive pedal that I've ever had. I do miss both the zen and that tele.
Ah man that's both cool to hear and sorry to hear you fell on hard times!!
Appreciated. It can happen to anyone. I've been a full time musician since I was 19. No plan B. I could have used one or a rich wife! I hope this is coming off in print as good natured as intended. Cheers everyone. Very nice playing Jonathan! I've just recently discovered your channel.
This is an awesome story
I have an unusual case of G.A.S. for that 66 tele that i paid $250 for and my zen drive that was a gift from Alf. I'd be 2/3 of the way back if I could aquire them. There also was Red Plate sig amp thst completed the signal. Although before that a Briown Note D'Lite 22 wt that killed and started me as a participant in the boutique world. As of the beginning of the year I think that I know where the tele and the zen are. It's slightly torturous but I have to let go. I'm getting there. It's only been 7 years..Haha! Yup, gettin' there.. ok, enough joking around. This is a fantastic channel and John's playing is melodic, musical and burning at the same time.What a combination!I'll be hanging around here more simply to hear him play. Like all player's on his level it doesn't matter what he's playing through. He sounds like himself. Practice, practice, practice and play live. That's what John did. There's no road around it. Thank you John.
Glad you’re on the mend Chuck
Warning: you won’t get the same tones without them posh slippers ❤️
Some interesting points raised. Another great video John
Ole Nana Puddin sounds smooth this afternoon, great vibe!
Amazing tone John! I’m really into the Zendrive vibe at the moment so I’m more than happy for you to keep making Zendrive videos 😂
I’ll probably go for something like the Joyo Taichi to scratch that Zendrive itch though because unfortunately for me the only thing that’s shallower than my pockets is my musical ability 😂
Rad tones, rad licks, rad slippers. More deep Jim cameos please.
Thanks John, your videos on the Zen drive have been great. Zen Drive and Jan Ray in Fractal are my favs
Tube screamer into a clean Fender amp makes sense when you see the amp as more slim in the mids, or maybe sculpted. Conventional tube screamer output is rich in upper mids, so combines conveniently with the hollower Fender sound. Listening to those three pedals together showed to me that the screamer hinted at the sound of a Gibson bridge humbucker, with the treble pulled back slightly, the Zendrive was noticeably slimmer sounding and had a little more shine, like the aforementioned bridge humbucker rolled off as before, but with the selecter in the mid dual pickup mode, simultaneously blending in a lower volume of the neck pickup, but with maximum highs and the tone on full on that neck pickup. Because the blend of the two pickups is set so the neck is much less volume than the bridge, that bridge can be set so the overall output of the guitar is a little fuller, and still retaining the sound of bridge humbucker, but getting any definition and treble from the neck pickup, thus avoiding the unpleasant spitty sound of overdriving treble frequencies at the bright bridge metal, which is sort of the same as you get from a TS808 especially unless the tone's pulled way back... by which point the sound goes too dull. That Zendrive sounded to me like that mid position on a 335 or Les Paul, neck down, but full tone. To get sound on one pedal you'd need another side with extende highs but deeper low end and less in the mids; that would achieve that pickup setting on one side, and leave you with the slightly more nasal screamer side more suited to crunchy rhythm playing where you don't want spitty highs to interfere with melodies, or muddiness from a bloated low end to mask the carbs of midrange... in other words a tube screamer.
sounds fantastic. Would have loved to see you compare it to the Helix model.
I have an original Zendrive. Love it. I've tried the Lovepedal various versions, which are also great, but not quite as good as the original. The Zendrive is great into a clean amp, and also works great before a Marshall in a box to push it into more overdrive. I have a Helix as well, and like the Dhyana drive model, which is close. The Zendrive in front of the Helix is a great "add a drive at any time" pedal.
John - which amp are you using with the Zendrive?
Oh - Fender Pro Reverb.
I have an og zendrive and a zendrive 2 from hermida. The zen is on my board right now. It is really great. I’ve had several of the lovepedal ones (at least 4 versions) and I do like the love pedal vanilla mojo zendrive “almost” as much as my original one. It’s 95% there for me. I would be happy with either
Unreal playing as usual Mr. Cordy. The mosfets in line with the diode clipping section will change the OD to the tube screamer not to mention the cap and resistor values which form Rc filtering throughout the circuit. I usually add mosfets to my own circuits when I want less clipping with a touch of raspiness. I find diodes alone will make it clip much faster. A good circuit to test components for clipping is the Electra Distortion schematic a single transistor boost with clipping on the output. Basically, most of Lovepedal circuits are great variations on the Electra schematic (Tchula, Cot 50, Champ etc) I love to mess with pedal schematics and Frankenstein circuits together in my spare time so I'm not a trained pro I'm just speaking from experience.
I built my own variation on the Zendrive schematic for myself with a 3-way switch for changing the clipping section to Symmetrical, A-symmetrical and no clipping just boost. I have it in a dual pedal enclosure similar idea to the Analogman King Of Tone. Side 1 is Zendrive variation and side 2 is Vertex Ultaphonix variation with voice knob. I call it the Zenphonix ODS. I find the ultraphonix schematic darker less fizz on the high frequencies, ultraphonix is great as cleaner boost and zendrive for higher gain.
When 2N7000 (or BS170) mosfets are used as clipping diodes, they clip exactly like the typical 1N4148 silicon diodes. Same forward voltage, same slope. Adding diodes in series raises the sum forward voltage. Adding a pair of mosfets to a pair of silicon diodes is like having 2 pairs of silicon diodes. The result is the same: forward voltage is doubled, so the signal will clip less.
What the Zendrive does differently is that it uses two BAT41 Schottky diodes (not the typical 1N4148s) + a 2N7000 mosfet on one side, and one Schottky and mosfet on the other. That's asymmetrical clipping.
The Schottky diodes have a lower forward voltage (half of what a 1N4148 has) and a softer slope, very similar to the now-almost-extinct germanium diodes.
That's why the Zendrive clips less and softer than a Tube Screamer.
@@ErebosGR Cheers for the info. I think I substituted the diodes for 1n4007 I know it's not the typical choice, but I liked how they reacted. I also like them in a hard clipping circuit. I think I used LEDs in the Ultraphonics as one of the choices for the clipping variation switch. I just try out different components and values until it gets close to the sound in my head. All in the name of fun.
@@daithidebarradb Cool, I've never used an 1N4007, but judging by the testing that Trevor @ The Repair Cafe blog has done, I assume that it clips a little sooner than the 1N4148.
You should try some Zener diodes as well, both in forward or reverse bias. They clip at similar voltages to LEDs, but with a much softer slope. Also, different colored LEDs clip at different forward voltages.
Alfonso made a good one! I’ve always enjoyed mine. Why we talking about it? Sounding good JC. Best, D
After recently picking up a Lovepedal Zendrive “Old School Build” and Gold 2, I’m determined to get my hands on an original Alf one. My current opinion is that these two versions both sound and feel bigger and more natural in a live setting than anything I’ve had so far (high end, cleverly tweaked, “trendy” boutique versions of the 808, bluesbreaker, centaur, mosstortion, odr-1, Gainster, a Timmy, old Fulltone stuff, a lot of Barber stuff… you name it). In fact, I know this isn’t a Lovepedal video, but anyone doubting Sean’s ability to make a good drive pedal should try literally ANY of his pedals. I especially like my Gold and “Old School Build” Zendrives and OD Eleven. Some variant of the Eternity is next on my list. But again, I’m definitely gonna find an old Alf version for sure. I’m completely sold on the Zendrive.
Honestly every time you switch to the Zen it just sounds better.
My first pedal was that Ibanez Metal Screamer. I wish I kept it.
If Tonex is watching, maybe they can do a legit capture, so I can load it onto my Tonex 1 and not buy 12 different overdrives that eventually sit on my shelf. Great vid as usual!
I'm sure someone will. I expect pedal captures are really easy to do as there is no mic involved.
man, that's super tasty. amazing playing and tone
At the more affordable end, consider trying some of the other Barber pedals - Gain Changer or Direct Drive. Barber’s Small Fry is their original take on the Dumble thing (Zen Drive). As you say, the Buss pedal is great but not in production. The Burn Unit is closer to the Dumble thing (and part of the evolution that included the Small Fry previously). I don't work for Barber, just a long time user of his stuff.
I agree with most of what you say here. It's an awesome pedal and that Mr Ford uses it when he has to leave his Dumbles at home says it all. I've just sent you an Insta about mine, which is very, very rare, if you're interested. Cheers for the tones!
My favorite new ones are the one offs that hermida makes with lovepedal called the Zendrive Squared, and the Zendrive Sig. I have had several original, including the tube-drive Zendrive 2, and I do like the Sig and the Squared better. Edit: to add that I have had two of the Zen 2 and two originals. I do think the latest "old school build" zendrives are really close.
It does seem like enough people who have experience with both give their approval of the “old school build” Lovepedal built version compared to the original Alfonso built version to warrant going for it if you really want the Zendrive sound. I just used mine in a loud live setting for the first time today actually, and it definitely inspired me to think less and take more risks with great payoff.
Dhyana Drive is pretty much there
From the recent TPS video, it seems that Robben uses the Zendrive like a clean drive than dirty and gained up.
lol what
You should try the rockbox boiling point and the baby blues pedals.(hand painted versions ) they were super hyped and expensive in the early days of boutique pedals and still sound amazing.
You should probably try a Vick Audio Tree of Life Overdrive. It’s half Zen Drive and half OCD. I have a Zen Drive and Tree of life and use them both separately and stacked. I think you will like it.
Awesome playing! What scale or mode are you using for the intro?
Compared my son's late model ZD ($300) to my WarmDrive...next to zero diff. Both sound excellent and similar. End of day, nothing beats a Timmy.
Sure, it sounds good. But a lot of it is the amp's signal. Plus, if you put a 70 dollar TS mini in front of the amp, it won't sound that much different, I think.
While you are down this rabbit hole, it would be interesting to stack in a Dover Drive and Memory Man (preamp only) to see if the Zendrive is noticeably more EJ vs the TS in that same chain.
We need to talk about you playing soul less elevator muzak...
I've been part of the lesser Soul Elevating Muzak movement since the 90s
@@johnnathancordy i like it, your tone and playing are sublime, glad you took it with a grain of salt as intended.
Not really "reissues" per se... Mr. Hermida is still the builder. Just different versions... website currently references a return to the 2016 version.
Yes
I have an original first version white paper label top, dated 010905. I got it in 2008ish, and emailed Alf gut shots. He said that was one of his first runs before going to the silver top. Hasn't left my board since. Love it! Not getting rid of this one, unless the pantry runs bare! Agreed, not a good rhythm pedal. Does anyone know what happened to Alf? With Fullerton making a. come back, hopefully we'll see Alf come back. Maybe he can work with the good folks at Mojo Tone or something. Reproduce the original Zen.
I use 3 Zendrives ( a bit different voiced cheapo clones) at the same time: Mosky Tai Ji > Joyo Taichi > Irin Taichi!
tha latest buy Mosky ( only 40€) is really FAT & dynamic! It was in a closet for 3 weeks after buying because I didnt expect it to be any different from the other 2, but 2 seconds after powering up I ordered a 2nd one: fat, warm, jazzy tone with a strat!
Then I had a 100€ selling Finnish handmade ZEN, which I didnt care for much: lacking dynamics & softness...This just goes to show money isnt always everything...
Cheers, K
Does your Zendrive is the new version or older? Thanks
Have you pushed it in different directions with a ParaEQ and 1176?
Anyone who likes the Zendrive should try a Gladio (or the smaller SC version).
Hi John, if you look inside your pedal I’m guessing you will see two small BAT41 diodes and a larger glass bodied diode, a 1N34A, which is germanium, the others are silicon.
I’m guessing the ones you didn’t take to probably didn’t have the 1N34A and had an extra BAT41 diode instead. This will subtly change the clipping nature and feel.
Nah, I doubt it. The BAT41 Schottky diodes should sound indistinguishable to a germanium diode, especially in that configuration.
I think the difference he was hearing was the different opamps. The original Hermida used, reportedly, an AD712, while the Lovepedal uses an NE5532.
Bit more of a nasal honk to the zen drive and cleans up differently backing off the dynamics ?
TS has always been too Nasal for my taste. Zen does sound better here. NEVER underestimate the volume roll off on your guitar. It can really do great things with any pedal.
I like to actually turn up the gain a bit on the pedal and roll off the guitar volume. It does a thing.
Quickest guitar change ever!
Was about to pull-the-trigger on a Zen Drive, but along came the F.T.T. "Overdrive Land" = no comparison. Killer pedal. I love the FTT Stuff. Preferred the BUSS to the Zen. David Barber is a genius. Love my Gain Changer SR. (my #1 drive)
Would love to know what you think of the Warm Audio one
I have the Hermida version and I bost it with my OCD which sounds awsome! for lead tones.
WarmDrive from Warm Audio does the Zen Drive perfectly for the fraction of the price... Highly recommended!
£119 in the UK - haven't seen a comparison but it's the most "blatant" clone that I've seen (most of the other companies try to hide it ha)- you dig yours?
@@johnnathancordy Never had the chance to play an original one but I dig the Warm one as compared to the tones you get on your video.
I boost an AC boost in front of the Zendrive. Strats are hard to get a great OD tone. My combo is the best that i have tried after 20 OD, Fuzz, Dist pedals.
Modified Boss Bluesdriver also
My former guitar instructor uses a Zen Drive. He would play with this pedal for his drive sound for when he was gigging. It has a very "Eric Johnson-y" type of singing quality to it. Could ya'll please list clones by competing manufactures that are worthy of checking out--ones that are $200 or less would be awesome!
Never mind! Hahhahaha
Curious how this would compare to the Warm Audio copy, if anyone has any experience comparing the two.
That "Dumble made ODS after he saw Ford playnig Bassman with Tubescreamer" is really fishy, story since Tubescreamer was not even published when David Lindley, Henry Kaiser etc already used Dumble ODS.
Do a blind test and compare cheap ones with the original one (I mean like chinese-cheap 😊) . I really like zdrive by demonfx. Sounds crazy in drop c too. I use it as a boost, volume/fader pedal in case of fx return only setup of my amp with other preamps, final touch eq, amp in a box kind of thing too.
Cordy doesn't want to humiliate the boutique brands. Same reason he never compares free amp sims with paid ones.
I can’t help but think that people seem to think there is some fairy dust sprinkled into the originals of these pedals (and TS, Klone etc). I have an original TS9 and it’s not my favourite TS pedal I own, despite being worth a heap more than all my others combined. The zendrive is a circuit which can be copied. So the lovepedal ones are probably very similar and the differences are more likely down to component tolerances. But hey, if other people want to spend big money on pedals go for it. Ha
People hear with their eyes and wallets, but the Lovepedal does use a more typical NE5532 opamp instead of the much pricier, higher quality AD712 of the original Hermida. And in pedal designs with a high clipping threshold, like the Zendrive, it makes a more significant difference.
Actually sounds very similar to my Hot Cake re: maintaining note clarity with a hint of overdrive
I've used a hotcake for years now, it can do a lot of different jobs, but it is picky about what it's plugged into. Better as a boost than a standalone distortion imo.
I got to try a Hot Cake a few months back - VERY cool pedal - somehow flies under the radar a bit?
Is the warm audio clone good?
I don't want to talk about the Zendrive, and you can't make me. So, there!
Doubt there's enough difference in the sound between all 3 pedals that anyone in the audience would hear, so choice probably comes down to whether there is any difference in feeling under the fingers - sag etc???
I've had loads of zendrives and I am fortunate enough to have I'd say one of the best Dumble ods replicas in the world (no joke! go to my youtube for a listen) In my opinion, the magic of the zendrive is mainly with a bridge humbucker pickup. The thing just explodes with harmonics when pushed with this pickup or something like a P90, or a hot tele bridge. Neck pickup is not a vibe, Strat pickup just doesn't do it. The bridge humbucker is where this pedal really shines and does it's thing, and it has to be turned up. Lovepedal is currently doing old school build zendrives, and I can't tell the difference between it and my old original.
I used to have one. It was okay.
Only ZD has the chirpy? I don't think so. The velvet katana ZD clone has the chirpy, not sure if they're still made. Small Fry is about the best pedal I've heard from Barber. Original Kingsley Minstrel would be a better choice if looking to make a major investment like an original ZD. It has the chirpy and also real tubes.
I prefer the sound of the Buss pedal, in fact, the Buss tone makes me wonder why anyone would pay 300, (dollars or pounds), or even more for a Zen or a Metal Screamer.
These things are sooo subjective.
The Metal Screamer I think would be cheaper relative to the others (although just checking reverb prices they seem to have shot up?)
Buss is way more versatile too.
I have the Love ZenDrive - hate it, always sounds muddy to me (also dont like Tube Screamer either so its just not my taste :) )
Yeh if you don't like a Tubescreamer, the Zendrive is definitely related init!!
Musikding do a good kit version. Really easy to build 👍
What about we need to talk about marriage if it’s not going well
I'm always here to chat
Joyo Taichi is a ZenDrive clone, as well.
@10:22 I'm sure it's broken now just throw it away.
LOOOOOL
I have a Rowin Dumbler and a Wampler Euphoria. They are both slightly different but both sound amazing
I also have an original TS10.
What the Zendrive does differently is that it uses two BAT41 Schottky diodes (not the typical 1N4148s) + a 2N7000 mosfet on one side, and one Schottky and mosfet on the other. That's asymmetrical clipping.
The Schottky diodes have a lower forward voltage (half of what a typical 1N4148 silicon diode has) and a softer slope, very similar to the now-almost-extinct germanium diodes.
When adding diodes in series, you're summing their forward voltages. Forward voltage is the threshold that the signal must surpass for the diode to clip, so higher forward voltage = less clipping.
That's why the Zendrive clips less and softer than a Tube Screamer.
If anyone wants to learn more about the various types of clipping diodes and their characteristics, search for an article on The Repair Cafe blog.
Oh, and the major difference between a Hermida Zendrive and a Lovepedal Zendrive is the choice of opamp used.
In the originals, Hermida had gooped the opamp, but most likely he used an AD712, which is a pricey one at $8-10/each, while the Lovepedal uses (AFAIK) the ubiquitous NE5532P, which is very reasonably priced at $0.6/each. The NE5532 is by no means bad (with a slew rate of 9 V/μs), but the AD712 has a faster slew rate of 17-20 V/μs, which typically translates to more clarity/note definition and less noise. Among DIY pedal builders, the LM4562NA is often regarded as a sweet spot (at $3/each).
fifth 👍
John, you should check out Mike Fuller's pedals! Fulltone are starting to come back but you can still get them in the used market. Sonny Landreth and many others use his gear. Cheers!
Not much difference. If not having an original Zen Drive is holding you back, then .... 🤷
Meh……
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