You're too kind :) I wasn't sure if this particular topic would even be relevant, which is why I've been sitting on the footage for so long. haha. It's probably oriented more toward fellow gearheads, but much of the information I provide should still prove to helpful for some. Thanks again for tuning in!
Thanks so much for the kind words :) Yes, those are beautiful skis. I've wanted to own a pair for a while, but I can't justify buying another set of skis at this point. haha! The skis in the video actually belonged to my neighbor, and I was trying not to drool all over them while I was mounting the bindings. hahah! Again, thanks for tuning in :)
Yes I'm a fan of that era of Madshus backcountry skis and the top sheets. I have the Madshus Transition Skin waxable M62'S (not so cool looking, but a great ski), but if anyone wants to get rid of a fishscale Eon with that top sheet, say 195 or longer, I'll take it! I had a chance to get a pair once and dropped the ball, gah!
@@williamabenejr8516 I was pretty bummed that the ski was too small for me. There's so much cool gear out there and, yet, we can only run one set of skis at a time! haha. I had to invest a lot of $ into Jeep repairs this fall, so that's my reason for not buying more skis this year! So I'm just going to be grateful for what I have and hope we have a good winter :)
Hello Jared. I recently bought Salomon Escape Outpath (NNN regular) boots and then bought a pair of Rossignol BC65 skis. Is there a NNN binding you'd recommend for doing mostly off track skiing, to go with my boots/skis? I won't be doing heavy backcountry but mostly on frozen lakes. Thank you. Joe
Hey, thanks for watching and the question :) Honestly, there are a bunch of different standard NNN bindings that you could choose from. Although you'll probably have to get a screw-on style as I don't believe the Rossignol BC65s have any type of mounting plate. But a screw-on binding is going to be more sturdy for backcountry conditions anyway, so I think that's fine. Again, though, I don't have any specific recommendations for brands, but you'll probably want a screw-on type that's a manual locking style. Auto bindings for track use are fine, but I do prefer manual bindings for backcountry use as they feel more secure. And they're a bit easier to get out of if you have to after falling down or getting hung up in some sort of obstacle, for example. Just know this, though, that standard NNN isn't the best option for backcountry use. However, it sounds like you'll be using them in super challenging conditions. I actually do have a set of Fischer Spider 62mm skis with an NNN auto binding that work fine in spring conditions, for example. So, on snow that's consolidated and predictable. I actually inherited them, so I didn't have a choice in their binding. But even the auto NNN binding is fine for light duty backcountry use. Anyway, not sure how much that helps but it's all I got :) Let me know if you have other questions or want additional clarification on anything I've said here. Thanks again for tuning in and for commenting :)
Could you elaborate weight distribution as I imagine this would affect your center of gravity? For instance, would you tend to fall forward more easily when, e.g., double-poling, if your binding is too far forward? Thanks.
Hey! Thanks for watching, and the question :) I'll do my best to get to the gist of what I believe you're asking... A binding that's slightly forward of the balance point will provide more grip as it'll put your weight more directly over the grip zone. This can help on uphill sections, but it'll cause the tips to torpedo under the snow (in deeper snow conditions) and you have the potential of dragging the grip zone a bit more since you'd be more directly over it. On the other hand, if you put your bindings slightly behind the balance point, you'll get less grip and more glide because you'll be on the back half of the grip zone. Basically, it'll be harder to compress the ski flat to engage the grip zone on the snow (whether your striding or just downhilling on both skis). Often, the grip zone stops somewhere about where your heels are, but it extends well in front of the toes. All of that said, no matter what direction you put that binding (fore/aft of the balance point), it's seldom going to be any more than, like, 1cm. A lot of contemporary bindings are designed for a skier to be able to move the bindings forward and backward with the click of a button. But they don't actually move that much, just enough to customize your skiing experience. So I don't know that different placement (within such a short range) would ever make so much difference that it would cause you to fall excessively, for example. I guess if you were really far forward of the balance point and were aggressively double poling, you could create a situation where you landed all of your weight onto the grip zone causing you to come to a screeching halt. But I've just never heard of this because, again, we often only subtly change that binding position. Some other thoughts about weight distribution with regard to the binding position is that a forward position, because it'll put you more over the grip zone, could theoretically encourage lazy technique. Basically, you wouldn't have to have perfect technique in order to compress the ski flat to achieve adequate grip. On the other hand, you'd need to have really good technique to get grip with the binding rear of the balance point. At the same time, you could totally wind up developing bad technique if the binding was too far back because you might have to start moving in an awkward way or extreme position in order to just compress the ski enough to get grip. Not sure if any of that helps, so let me know if you want clarification on anything I've said or if I missed the point completely :) Thanks again for tuning in, and for contributing to the conversation!
Great video, it answers all the questions I had. Comment/question: The NNN-BC fix on my transverse 78 are mounted on the balance point, but with the unequal weight of snow accumulating on the front and back of the skis, the tip is diving quite a lot when I progress in deep snow. Am I the only one to experience this?
Hey Michael, Thanks so much for the nice feedback. I appreciate it :) For me, snow collecting on the skis (at least when it's sticky) is part of the deal. I don't know that I'd set bindings to something other than balance point to offset the potential for the snow's weight because, well, snow is always changing. That said, snow collects on the top sheet (especially on the front) all the time for me. Other than the fact that it is added weight and accordingly annoying, I think I just manipulate my feet so that the tips don't dive too much. Basically, I draw the toes up and keep the heels down, and then I often scrape (with my ski pole handle) or slap my ski (to get the snow to break free). One out-of-the-box idea may be to spray the top sheet of your skis with a PAM style cooking oil or a silicone type of ice prevention spray to decrease the amount of snow that could stick. I've heard of people doing that to the shoots of their snowblowers. Not sure how effect that would be as I've never personally tried it, but it's an idea :) Unfortunately, I don't have any bullet proof solutions to snow sticking to the tops of my skis. Maybe somebody else in the audience can chime in on the matter. Again, thanks for tuning in, and for the question!
@@JaredManninen Hi Jared, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. In fact, when I’m progressing in deep snow, uphill or on flat, I constantly compensate with my feets as you just described. Not a very natural/fluid technique for me, especially when I need to change direction. If I ever get another pair of skis, I’ll probably move the fix upfront a bit ;-)
@JaredManninen. I just bought a pair of s-bound 112 and the Rottefella NNN-BC Magnums. Can you recommend a shop in the Truckee area that you would trust with mounting the bindings? I really don't want to take them to REI.
Thanks for reaching out! And congrats on your new bc xc skis :) I would first try Tahoe Mountain Sports. I have a couple of friends associated with the gear shop and it seems like a solid operation. That said, I'm not sure how much backcountry/off-track xc ski stuff they deal with. Call them and see if that's an option. Paco's would have normally been the standard choice. However, I have seen/heard some less than stellar reviews of their service and sales in recent years. And I think they mostly deal with track and skate skis, so bc xc skis might not be their thing. I'd be hesitant to take them there. On the south shore, which would be a bit of drive for you I assume, but an option nonetheless is Tahoe Sports Ltd. They sell a variety of Fischer bc and off-track xc skis, so I assume they also mount bindings. Anyway, hope those suggestions help. Let me know what you decide to do! And thanks for tuning in and commenting :)
@@JaredManninen Thanks man! Yea, I'm up in Loyalton, so Reno or Truckee is best for me. I'll definitely give TMS a call. I guess the most important thing is to ask if they have the Rottefella jig. And that they know how to find the balance point and split the difference.
@@cosmokenney Yeah, the Rottefella jig has both nnn and nnn bc. Hopefully TMS can mount them. It's a more shallow drill bit too than standard nnn. But i think i saw on their website that they sold nnn bc auto, and that's the same hole pattern as nnn bc manual. Good luck 👍
@@JaredManninen Thanks again man! I'm actually considering doing it myself -- I have a drill press with a quill stop (no need for a collared bit) and I could use an appropriate sized transfer punch through the binding mount holes to accurately dimple the topsheet where I need to drill. The rest of the mount would be pretty straight forward.
@cosmokenney Good luck! And definitely check that drill bit depth before committing. You definitely don't want to go all the way through! Like they say, measure twice, cut once. It's really not that difficult but there are definitely some details to consider. Reach out if you have any questions 😊
Great video! Do you think it is worth it to re-drill the heel to shorten the binding? Going from a size 44 to 43. The 43 sits on the heel piece but not fully. Thanks!
Hey Ben! Thanks for the kind words :) I honestly don't think I'd drill another hole in the ski just for the heel plate. They're pretty negligible to begin with. In fact, the heel plate on my S-bound 112mm just spins around all the time because it's only held in place by one screw and a plastic stem (that broke off a long time ago). So the heel plate is never lined up, and I don't care enough to do anything about it. That said, perhaps you could fashion some sort of small plastic piece just in front of the existing heel plate to split the difference. Maybe with some epoxy or other adhesive? The difference between a 44 and 43 size boot just seems so insignificant to drill more holes. Not sure if that helps, but that's my two cents on the matter :) Let me know if you have other questions or want additional clarification as to what I've said here. Again, thanks for tuning in and for the nice feedback!
Jared, next time you need to mount something let me know, I have a couple of mounting jigs and I live in SLT. Later, Jonathan oh, and I have the 'special' ski drill bits.
Thanks for the offer, Jonathan! I appreciate the help. I'm actually kind of glad that I don't end up doing a lot of mounting here at my house. I get enough of that at my xc ski resort job :) But if anything ever comes up and I need an assist, I'll definitely reach out. Thanks again :)
Haha! Good catch :) But the skis/bindings I'm mounting belonged to my neighbor. She moved away this past year and asked me before she left if I wanted to buy them from her. I briefly considered, but they were sized too small for me so I passed on it :) Nice skis, though!
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.15 (3/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IVwR87OH0_A/mqdefault.jpg)
What a godsend!
You're too kind :)
I wasn't sure if this particular topic would even be relevant, which is why I've been sitting on the footage for so long. haha. It's probably oriented more toward fellow gearheads, but much of the information I provide should still prove to helpful for some.
Thanks again for tuning in!
Great video and such a fun ski. I have exactly the same setup in my quiver 👍
Thanks so much for the kind words :)
Yes, those are beautiful skis. I've wanted to own a pair for a while, but I can't justify buying another set of skis at this point. haha! The skis in the video actually belonged to my neighbor, and I was trying not to drool all over them while I was mounting the bindings. hahah!
Again, thanks for tuning in :)
Yes I'm a fan of that era of Madshus backcountry skis and the top sheets. I have the Madshus Transition Skin waxable M62'S (not so cool looking, but a great ski), but if anyone wants to get rid of a fishscale Eon with that top sheet, say 195 or longer, I'll take it! I had a chance to get a pair once and dropped the ball, gah!
@@williamabenejr8516 I was pretty bummed that the ski was too small for me. There's so much cool gear out there and, yet, we can only run one set of skis at a time! haha. I had to invest a lot of $ into Jeep repairs this fall, so that's my reason for not buying more skis this year! So I'm just going to be grateful for what I have and hope we have a good winter :)
Hello Jared. I recently bought Salomon Escape Outpath (NNN regular) boots and then bought a pair of Rossignol BC65 skis. Is there a NNN binding you'd recommend for doing mostly off track skiing, to go with my boots/skis? I won't be doing heavy backcountry but mostly on frozen lakes. Thank you. Joe
Hey, thanks for watching and the question :)
Honestly, there are a bunch of different standard NNN bindings that you could choose from. Although you'll probably have to get a screw-on style as I don't believe the Rossignol BC65s have any type of mounting plate. But a screw-on binding is going to be more sturdy for backcountry conditions anyway, so I think that's fine.
Again, though, I don't have any specific recommendations for brands, but you'll probably want a screw-on type that's a manual locking style. Auto bindings for track use are fine, but I do prefer manual bindings for backcountry use as they feel more secure. And they're a bit easier to get out of if you have to after falling down or getting hung up in some sort of obstacle, for example.
Just know this, though, that standard NNN isn't the best option for backcountry use. However, it sounds like you'll be using them in super challenging conditions. I actually do have a set of Fischer Spider 62mm skis with an NNN auto binding that work fine in spring conditions, for example. So, on snow that's consolidated and predictable. I actually inherited them, so I didn't have a choice in their binding. But even the auto NNN binding is fine for light duty backcountry use.
Anyway, not sure how much that helps but it's all I got :) Let me know if you have other questions or want additional clarification on anything I've said here.
Thanks again for tuning in and for commenting :)
Could you elaborate weight distribution as I imagine this would affect your center of gravity? For instance, would you tend to fall forward more easily when, e.g., double-poling, if your binding is too far forward? Thanks.
Hey! Thanks for watching, and the question :)
I'll do my best to get to the gist of what I believe you're asking...
A binding that's slightly forward of the balance point will provide more grip as it'll put your weight more directly over the grip zone. This can help on uphill sections, but it'll cause the tips to torpedo under the snow (in deeper snow conditions) and you have the potential of dragging the grip zone a bit more since you'd be more directly over it.
On the other hand, if you put your bindings slightly behind the balance point, you'll get less grip and more glide because you'll be on the back half of the grip zone. Basically, it'll be harder to compress the ski flat to engage the grip zone on the snow (whether your striding or just downhilling on both skis). Often, the grip zone stops somewhere about where your heels are, but it extends well in front of the toes.
All of that said, no matter what direction you put that binding (fore/aft of the balance point), it's seldom going to be any more than, like, 1cm. A lot of contemporary bindings are designed for a skier to be able to move the bindings forward and backward with the click of a button. But they don't actually move that much, just enough to customize your skiing experience.
So I don't know that different placement (within such a short range) would ever make so much difference that it would cause you to fall excessively, for example. I guess if you were really far forward of the balance point and were aggressively double poling, you could create a situation where you landed all of your weight onto the grip zone causing you to come to a screeching halt. But I've just never heard of this because, again, we often only subtly change that binding position.
Some other thoughts about weight distribution with regard to the binding position is that a forward position, because it'll put you more over the grip zone, could theoretically encourage lazy technique. Basically, you wouldn't have to have perfect technique in order to compress the ski flat to achieve adequate grip. On the other hand, you'd need to have really good technique to get grip with the binding rear of the balance point. At the same time, you could totally wind up developing bad technique if the binding was too far back because you might have to start moving in an awkward way or extreme position in order to just compress the ski enough to get grip.
Not sure if any of that helps, so let me know if you want clarification on anything I've said or if I missed the point completely :)
Thanks again for tuning in, and for contributing to the conversation!
@@JaredManninen This does help. Thank you.
Awesome 👍
Great video, it answers all the questions I had. Comment/question: The NNN-BC fix on my transverse 78 are mounted on the balance point, but with the unequal weight of snow accumulating on the front and back of the skis, the tip is diving quite a lot when I progress in deep snow. Am I the only one to experience this?
Hey Michael,
Thanks so much for the nice feedback. I appreciate it :)
For me, snow collecting on the skis (at least when it's sticky) is part of the deal. I don't know that I'd set bindings to something other than balance point to offset the potential for the snow's weight because, well, snow is always changing.
That said, snow collects on the top sheet (especially on the front) all the time for me. Other than the fact that it is added weight and accordingly annoying, I think I just manipulate my feet so that the tips don't dive too much. Basically, I draw the toes up and keep the heels down, and then I often scrape (with my ski pole handle) or slap my ski (to get the snow to break free).
One out-of-the-box idea may be to spray the top sheet of your skis with a PAM style cooking oil or a silicone type of ice prevention spray to decrease the amount of snow that could stick. I've heard of people doing that to the shoots of their snowblowers. Not sure how effect that would be as I've never personally tried it, but it's an idea :)
Unfortunately, I don't have any bullet proof solutions to snow sticking to the tops of my skis. Maybe somebody else in the audience can chime in on the matter. Again, thanks for tuning in, and for the question!
@@JaredManninen Hi Jared, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
In fact, when I’m progressing in deep snow, uphill or on flat, I constantly compensate with my feets as you just described. Not a very natural/fluid technique for me, especially when I need to change direction. If I ever get another pair of skis, I’ll probably move the fix upfront a bit ;-)
@JaredManninen. I just bought a pair of s-bound 112 and the Rottefella NNN-BC Magnums. Can you recommend a shop in the Truckee area that you would trust with mounting the bindings? I really don't want to take them to REI.
Thanks for reaching out! And congrats on your new bc xc skis :)
I would first try Tahoe Mountain Sports. I have a couple of friends associated with the gear shop and it seems like a solid operation. That said, I'm not sure how much backcountry/off-track xc ski stuff they deal with. Call them and see if that's an option.
Paco's would have normally been the standard choice. However, I have seen/heard some less than stellar reviews of their service and sales in recent years. And I think they mostly deal with track and skate skis, so bc xc skis might not be their thing. I'd be hesitant to take them there.
On the south shore, which would be a bit of drive for you I assume, but an option nonetheless is Tahoe Sports Ltd. They sell a variety of Fischer bc and off-track xc skis, so I assume they also mount bindings.
Anyway, hope those suggestions help. Let me know what you decide to do!
And thanks for tuning in and commenting :)
@@JaredManninen Thanks man! Yea, I'm up in Loyalton, so Reno or Truckee is best for me. I'll definitely give TMS a call. I guess the most important thing is to ask if they have the Rottefella jig. And that they know how to find the balance point and split the difference.
@@cosmokenney Yeah, the Rottefella jig has both nnn and nnn bc. Hopefully TMS can mount them. It's a more shallow drill bit too than standard nnn. But i think i saw on their website that they sold nnn bc auto, and that's the same hole pattern as nnn bc manual. Good luck 👍
@@JaredManninen Thanks again man! I'm actually considering doing it myself -- I have a drill press with a quill stop (no need for a collared bit) and I could use an appropriate sized transfer punch through the binding mount holes to accurately dimple the topsheet where I need to drill. The rest of the mount would be pretty straight forward.
@cosmokenney Good luck! And definitely check that drill bit depth before committing. You definitely don't want to go all the way through! Like they say, measure twice, cut once. It's really not that difficult but there are definitely some details to consider. Reach out if you have any questions 😊
Great video! Do you think it is worth it to re-drill the heel to shorten the binding? Going from a size 44 to 43. The 43 sits on the heel piece but not fully. Thanks!
Hey Ben! Thanks for the kind words :)
I honestly don't think I'd drill another hole in the ski just for the heel plate. They're pretty negligible to begin with. In fact, the heel plate on my S-bound 112mm just spins around all the time because it's only held in place by one screw and a plastic stem (that broke off a long time ago). So the heel plate is never lined up, and I don't care enough to do anything about it.
That said, perhaps you could fashion some sort of small plastic piece just in front of the existing heel plate to split the difference. Maybe with some epoxy or other adhesive? The difference between a 44 and 43 size boot just seems so insignificant to drill more holes.
Not sure if that helps, but that's my two cents on the matter :) Let me know if you have other questions or want additional clarification as to what I've said here.
Again, thanks for tuning in and for the nice feedback!
Thank you! Very helpful!
I appreciate the kind words :) Glad you liked my video about mounting xc ski bindings. Let me know if you ever have any related questions!
Jared, next time you need to mount something let me know, I have a couple of mounting jigs and I live in SLT. Later, Jonathan oh, and I have the 'special' ski drill bits.
Thanks for the offer, Jonathan! I appreciate the help. I'm actually kind of glad that I don't end up doing a lot of mounting here at my house. I get enough of that at my xc ski resort job :) But if anything ever comes up and I need an assist, I'll definitely reach out.
Thanks again :)
Whoa whaaat? Madshus Epoch 68's? Quiver overlap alert, don't you already have Fischer S Bound 98's? What is going on here, lol?
Haha! Good catch :)
But the skis/bindings I'm mounting belonged to my neighbor. She moved away this past year and asked me before she left if I wanted to buy them from her. I briefly considered, but they were sized too small for me so I passed on it :)
Nice skis, though!