Power Supply Layout Design Analysis a close look at Nice-Power Bench Power Supply
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video 'Power Supply Layout Design Analysis a close look at Nice-Power Bench Power Supply', I'll go over the circuit and how it was placed into this box. We will go over the board design placement and box design. #NicePower #BenchPowerSupply #PCBlayout
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When I started designing power supplies, it did not take long to learn that the schematic is about 10% of a successful design 🤣😂
This is a great topic to cover. Love it!
Thanks for your feedback! Great to hear from another power supply engineer;)
My first job out of school was power supplies for induction heating furnaces back in the early 80's. Everything was water cooled. We loaded the capacitors with a fork lift.
wow - big stuff;)
Hey Eddie. I really enjoyed your analysis. I'm not a big fan of having electrolytic caps near heat sinks if it can be avoided. The two large ones are close to the fins and will block some of the air flow as well. When troubleshooting and repairing equipment that's been around for awhile it often seems that the electrolytics that are near heat sinks are the ones that have failed first.
We can see from your analysis that the board layout that the engineer/s chose was not only not the greatest regarding EMI, it created extra steps, labor for the manufacturing line.
Great feedback! Thanks!
The Aluminum Electrolytic caps will dry out faster when heated, so it is a good idea to keep some distance from heat generators.
HI, It is so good to hear from you. Hope you are doing well. Thank you for supporting Eddie. Your the best. 🙏😃
Thank you for sharing.
You Bet! Thanks for your feedback!
I have some older Nice-Power supplies and some of the modifications don't look like improvements. They used to put the power switch on the back next to the plug, and they didn't have the back DC terminals, which simplified the wiring. I'm not a fan of leaving off the air filter and prefer having positive pressure in the case from blowing into the enclosure through a filter to keep it from filling up with dust. Or as a Vietnamese engineer once described it to a customer, I prefer power supplies that suck to those that blow. This configuration also maximizes air speed over the heat sink fins which maximizes cooling. The downside is that the hot air stays in the box longer before being exhausted...
Great feedback! I would like to see the power switch on back and a on/off switch on front to turn the output on and off. I like the Vietnamese engineer's take;)
I'd be interested in the corrections video but along with it some before and after measurements to see what the corrections change. E.g. reduction on ripple, more accurate output, or whatever. Thanks for the videos.
Thanks for your feedback! This will be an interesting task.
I agree. Some before and after measurements would be interesting to see.
Thank you!
Hi Eddie, great job tutoring. Thanks for the great video. 😁👍
Thanks for your support! I appreciate you!
Cool video Eddie. Thanks man.
Thanks so much!
@@KissAnalog "eeeeèeeeeeeee mail" I whisper lol
LOL
The criss-cross design is a bit strange, but I'll still give them points for prioritizing cooling. Heat is the enemy! Maybe since it's a higher current supply they figured a little ripple wouldn't hurt?
It's generous of you to concede that we don't really know what they were thinking. It seems like management always comes to engineering with a [metaphorical] box their design must fit in, and by this time in the design process, none of the terms are negotiable. (Outside-looking-in opinion)
Great insight! Thank you! It is true - we want the display here and the power switch here with the input power cord here and the output terminals here - oh and the fan here;) Then the Engineer has a puzzle;) But then there are still things you can do;)
I would like to see you take it apart, and show the simple fixes you have in mind for the wire routing and such.
It does seem like the opportunity to put the main AC in and CM filter right in the corner of the board. The power switch location can be contrasted with the effort put in by top Test Equipment manufacturers that design long funny shaped plastic rods that take the action of the front panel button to the actual switch at the rear of the machine where the AC enters.
Thanks for another great video!
Thanks for the great feedback! those long plastic rods were used for a good reason right;)
I love the video Eddie! You did a great job explaining isolation throughout the entire supply. Please capture the noise in various spots before your changes and compare them afterwards. Would you recommend any shielding in there too? I'd also like to see you put a significant load on it. Is it 600 watts continously or for 30 seconds? Thank You!
Thanks for the great feedback! I have a video coming out very soon to show this;)
Oddly it's often just a 90° rotation of some sections CW or CCW and many of the loop problems are eliminated.
Thanks for your feedback! It really helps to keep loops small and that is why placement is so critical. This is an art that many companies spend untold hours at an EMC Facility testing and trying to get their products to pass.
Yes probe testing maybe on the scope see what the ripples like after the adjustments, how would you adjust that power cable to the switch shield it? Possibly could do away with the fan if you had higher value components You're gonna test it to its limits see how hot it gets.
How do somebody come to a design like that when it's in CAD should be obvious to them.
Thanks I'll do a before and after to see if we can make a difference. It is an art to get layout correct. Power design is not respected and people don't put the effort or pay for design engineers that know.
Hi Ed, the link dosent take us to the correct supply at Amazon ! great idea for a deep dive into this supply and I hope you take the usual measurements before touching it and the afters in another vid maybe ?...cheers. :)
Thank you! This is a link and it is on sale with a coupon taking it down to about $145: amzn.to/3L7zNNq
👍
Thank you
21:47 i was the one who ask what this current transformer is doing there next to the big DC caps ? But like i said in the previous comments, current transformer only works with AC, that can be 50/60Hz, or High frequency like up to 100Khz, but what is this current transformer measuring exactly ? You could think it sits between the control IC and the main transformer, but that is normally a sort of PWM kind of signal, so no idea of a current transformer can work with a PWM type of signal. Or is that current transformer used for measuring pure 50/60Hz and have they done another zigzag of mains through a low voltage section on the pcb ? Would be nice, if the pcb could be removed, and looked where that primary section (1 winding through the donut) of that current transformer is running to?
Another question about powersupplies that intrigues me is this, we all know those "volt sticks" or non-contact voltage detectors, that are advertised for 90 to 1000V AC.
Now, from experience, i know these are also react to switching noise from a switching powersupply, even as low as a 5V USB charger. On a linear bench powersupply, this detectors doesn't respond at all. But here is the 1 million dollar question, when using such a non-contact voltage detector on a step-down transformer (the old type wall outlet chargers, per example 120/240 to 12V AC) this detector response also to the 12V AC output, but when using a linear bench powersupply like a 0-30V DC, this non-contact voltage detector response to the output of the transformer, but when you come to the rectified output, the non-contact voltage detectors stops. Now, in switching powersupplies, this detector react all over the place, from the input to the DC output (even with 1V output), regarding lots of noise filtering they used. You could think, that this detector response to the magnetic field of the pulse transformer, but that is not the reason, because if you use 2 meter long power leads from the DC banana jacks , the detector reacts also at the end of these leads when you are 2 meter away from the switching powersupply. So there is something impossed on top of the DC signal output where these detectors respond to. Is this to the high frequency ripple?
Thanks for the great feedback!! I'll talk more about the current sense and I'll soon show how to design this type of current sense. I'll see if I can also demonstrate the NCV of some of the meters that I have.
Hey Eddie, I'm currently designing an isolated flyback and wonder what my bandwidth should be on oscope when validating signals. I notice a big difference on my switch node peak voltage depending on the bandwidth. 20MHz vs 200MHz
Great question!! What scope and probe are you using? What's the sampling? I'll have to illustrate this in a video very soon - maybe this weekend on this flyback.
Hi I got one of those model 6020 but some one taking parts out never put in back and hardly find the schematic can you help me tell me what kind of bridge rectifier , transistor under the aluminum Heatsink
This video similar for the one I have
My missing a transistors and bridge rectifier pictures works too appreciate thanks
Ive ordered some of the stuff to make a simple flyback design. What type of protection cap after the emi filter do you recommend eddie? Class y are cheaper and i can put one on both rails
I"m glad you are learning the flyback. Have you seen this video on the Safety caps? th-cam.com/video/fQSlo1zmAlA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Q8mm0Jd6qwnkTTHd
Is it possible to remove heatsink? It is a bit strange to me to put primary side transistors and secondary side rectifiers (diodes, but it is possible they used synchronous rectifiers driven by main axulary wining on main transformer) under the same heatsink.
Traces between main transformer and output rectifier and primary switching transistors are unnecessary to long, driving transformer is bit too far from primary switching transistors.
They could just rotate input filters for 90 degrees and switch their places, which would be a much better and cleaner solution.
To me, it is look like they try to design PCB, so analogue control on the secondary side is as far as.posible from all noise, and they sacrifice the rest of it.
I assume your surname is Kiss. My Hungarian cousins are Kiss. 😊