I assume all the defendents will offer max liability (which may not be much). The residents and survivors will have to decide whether to pursue a lawsuit based on expected recovery beyond insurance limits.
I simply don't know! This presentation, as always is so exceptionally explained! If I was a juror I most certainly would ask " Why were none of the owners willing to NOT sue the HOA, etc., knowing what they knew in the past as they stated in the emails, a few years ago! " It seems to me a small majority could have been aware but did they go around to email or send letters to all the unit owners! So very sad with the loss of lives! God bless you and your loved ones in the Holy Name of Jesus Christ!
i just moved into the city, and as i entered the parking garage of my apartment building for the first time i caught myself looking for things like cracked and spalled concrete. i think that's proof that your videos are raising awareness on the building code issues that might go unnoticed in daily life
Once you renovate a house, you suddenly wonder about all of the deathtraps that you lived in previously. I remember walking into one house, and upon seeing a piece of zip cord exiting the wall, just turning and walking right back out. Fresh paint that is still de-gassingis always a bad sign too.
@@robertslugg8361 Freshly painted houses use something called trade paint (in the UK.) It's role it too look freshly painted but is is not weathertproof it is designed to breathe it goes powdery in less than an year and need replacing wiith a better product. No hardship as most new owners want a different colour by then.
Having experience in the construction industry, this complaint is 100% believable. A contractor cutting corners despite warnings, thinking they know better and believing that everyone is over-reacting and that everything will be fine? That's every day at every construction site.
@@MajorCaliber Minnesota/ wisconsin area. Let's just say there is a reason OSHA exists, and it isn't because someone tripped over an extension cord.... :)
@@michaelrmurphy2734 Notice in all these cases where the owner/developer is given multiple choices, the CHEAPEST one is ALWAYS the chosen one. In the case of the San Francisco "leaning Tower", the choice for the foundation pilings for a "skyscraper" located on "Bay Fill", in a "Earthquake Zone" was the "modern engineering miracle" instead of the traditional "driven piles down to bedrock. OBVIOUSLY, the cheaper choice!! Latest reports are that the building is leaning enough to be causing some plumbing waste backups. "Sh-t" flows "downhill" - - - - - - - until the building leans the opposite direction!! Anyone have a "clothespin" ??
@@MajorCaliber Every tall building has the exposure to weather like that of acontainer transporter like the Evergiven exposed to an Hurricane the rattling as the wind gusts from F1 to 5 is above 70MPH. The problem is they are boxes not aerodynamic like ships. So the pneumatics of jack hammers in involved,
"No, no, no, it wasn't the shoddy engineering, questionable construction or the utter lack of maintenance that collapsed our tower. It was our evil neighbors..."
@@cardboardboxification ... courts are a funny thing. It also depends on who is doing the suing. The owners could sue the HOA for not properly stating how urgent the repairs were... and hopefully there's an insurance company involved to get money from.
I’m a lawyer who represents engineers in these type of cases. Excellent job explaining the complaint! FYI, Florida is a comparative fault state, which means that liability can be apportioned between numerous defendants.
Why aren’t there stronger laws against these kinds of ridiculous lawsuits? There is no evidence whatever that work on the nearby building had any effect, and there is *ample* evidence that design, construction, revisions, and poor maintenance on their own building was much more likely contributory-and some of the culpability lies with the owners/unit holders of Champlain South The claim against 87 Park is prima facie bogus.
It's about liability the neighboring building can be found 1% liable and will have to pay out.. It's about proving your case each and every case is different... So it's easier to prove 1% rather than 100%. With so many parties this is going to take a while. The lawsuits have been filed, it's all about the discovery process.
@@kineahora8736 They are not ridiculous claims, as i mention above in the UK this is written into "the party wall act" and no doubt there are similar laws in other countries that are based on English system of law.
@@G8YTZ Most everything not codified into specific federal and state law, reverts to English Common Law. But do not rely upon my words, I am a locksmith, not a Barrister!
Fascinating analysis of the whole Surfside event. I work in another engineering field, but can see the complexity here - design decisions, construction decisions/ building management decisions/ nearby development risk assessments. There is a lot to learn here as an engineer of any discipline. Obviously my thoughts/empathy go to those impacted from this event, but we can learn form this. This channel is showing a constructive approach how to investigate.
Completely agree regarding the complexity. But the condo's engineer's knew about the potential for catastrophic collapse (at the pool deck) for years and did nothing consequential about it. To me they bear most of the responsibility.
I am sure social scientists will also be studying this for quite some time. I just got my masters in emergency & disaster management and I am fascinated by how all of the different parties evaluated the risk to the building and themselves. Optimism bias was strong.
@@barryschmidt3436, may be, but we must be cautious. We did not have access to all documents (e.g. Mail between Engineer and Association). There is the Association not wanting to make the repairs and there is the city employee telling the Association that the building was fine. For me, the most incredible thing (and the engineering team was really bad) was the poor assessment of the collapse of the deck slab next to column K13.1.
Its like a camp rd on a lake, no one wants to spend a penny on it and it gets rougher and rougher every year. This condo was a bunch of cheap skates that would get report after report instead of fixing the known problems. Blaming the company that did the report saying they didn't stress the situation enough is like saying I was waiting for a brighter engine light in my car. These people need to own their own mistake of no maintenance.
@@charleyb8423 I would think that suing the association is like suing yourself: they were all the association and were all involved (whether actively or by being apathetic..it is still a choice) in the care of that building, i.e., their home. Therefore they are suing themselves and saying that they, the owners, messed up.
@@akb5531 wanna bet the dead HOA members catch all the blame? Wanna bet all the people from 1979 catch all the blame? Wanna bet the condo across the street and Moribido settle out of court with an NDA ? Wanna bet the attorneys drag this out decades to get fat and rich?
About 10 - 11 years ago My Mom and step dad actually went to see a Condo at Champlain Towers. They decided to not Buy the Unit they were looking at, due to some issues with the Balcony was 1 of the main reasons, another was just having to update pretty much everything inside. Said seemed like everything was still original when the place was built back in early 80s.
Yeah but thats pretty normal for condos down here in South FL. Old people live in these things for years and then they die, the kids sell it and it looks like its from the 70s or 80s.
@@mikeworkman3593 Oh I know that. can happen anywhere really. Think it was more about spending alot of money on the condo only then to having to spend more Money to bring place up to date pretty much. Most of the eletrical plugs would have to been replaced. since most of them were ones with just 2 slots instead of the plugs that also had the ground plugs. There was Carpet in the bathroom.
@@ChakatNightspark OMG, you just gave me a flashback... In the house my dad bought in the 70's, we had carpet in the bathrooms, and kitchen. Ugly-ass earthtones, tacky paterns.
@@johnbergstrom2931 When I bought my place a few years ago. It had Carpet in both bathrooms. So when i removed it. I was surprised that it was covering Tile. Nothing was wrong with the Tile. Had to re grout it. but in total it saved me a good $600 to $750+ Im still updating stuff today to my place. 80% of it is done for most part. If I can live with it for awhile, I will do so. First thing i did when i moved into my new place. New Roof, Kitchen remodel and bathroom carpets removed. (Found tile so just re grout) ((The bathrooms were only place with Carpet in it)) I repainted entire place but slowly over the years. until it was done. I also removed the paint from the brick fireplace, Removed all Gas Lines from house (Gas is the Worse Thing you can have in a house) Took me a couple months of hard work and lot of chemicals to remove all the paint from the bricks. Had to replace a couple bricks. Paint was just to much and was in a couple bricks that had all these tiny holes on the face. But I have a nice better brick fireplace to burn wood in. Instead of some Gas ugly ineffective insert despite the people i bought the place from had just put it in like 3 months before i bought the place. But, I wont have anything GAS. its a waste of money and it heats and cooks very poorly.
Most HOA are residents with limited expertise. Generally retired, and willing to deal with the daily nuisance complaints and holding meetings on matters they rely upon the expertise of others. Some HOAs contract this function out to law firms or property management companies. The course of action to come is a matter of plaintiffs hauling EVERYONE into court, and letting the legal system sort out the liability. It will be in percentages of fault among various entities and their underwriters. Oh, this was covered as video plays out.
This claim is NOT by the HOA. It is the residents and survivors. Some of them were probably renting and knew nothing about the drastic conditions, or like the lady who had just bought a condo on 6th floor.
G'day from Australia. This is good to follow and i appreciate your unbiased, unemotional approach to the scenario - as sad as it is. If I could add this - I wish normal news reporting used your videos as a template for any topic.
Regardless of which parties were the most negligent it's still heartwreching to know how many innocent lives were lost due to cost cutting on multiple levels.
@@joshjones5172 I thought it was the inspectors and builders. Just looking at the balcony decks, there's very little floor there. I'd be sus if I knew THAT was the thickness of the whole floor.
The reason I live in a house is to avoid condo associations and the decisions they make that could impact my life. Too many times I've experienced all the arguing and poor decision making. Time and time again, a whole lot of nothing gets done, and no one wants to spend a dime to fix things. This was a tragic event, but I hope something good comes out of it and people learn a lesson.
Josh: First, I want to thank you for your lucid, clearly presented explanations. I am a professional engineer myself (though NOT a structural engineer) and find your videos to be detailed enough to be interesting to professionals and at the same time easily understandable by laymen. One question I would have is: Was the "Moribito Report" (the report associated with the 40 year recertification) reviewed by the property insurance carriers, and what was their evaluation of that report. Were the various insurance companies concerned by the building's condition as assessed by the professional engineer? The lawsuit names the law firm for not raising Red Flags, why isn't the insurance company named? It seems to me that the insurance companies (who all have the services of engineering consulting firms to assess technical risks) would be another party who might (emphasize MIGHT) have provided another voice of authority to motivate the condo board to take urgent action. Thanks again for your work on this - I am using it in my work with high school students to foster discussion of engineering ethics.
That’s what I want to know too. I owned a 5-plex and the insurance people were always on our a*s to make repairs as menial as flaking paint with a deadline.
@@Wazupiseeyou Insurance Co.'s dont want a big liability. Maybe their reputation is reflective of the properties they insure. While looking to insure my house, most companies would insure it sight unseen and one said they needed to see the property inside and out. At the time I was irritated to give up my time for an appt. for viewing of a new build house but...the Co. gave some good reasons for their policy. They wanted to see that their was actually a structure and the condition of the structure. They also wanted pics every year to validate the condition/changes to the property. That I never did and never will do.
@@kellyname5733 if i understand your comment correctly, youre saying you would NOT want to have an insurance co inspect your property before insuring. Why? To me, an insurance company which does not do this is going to pay out more claims due to less background work before insuring property. When the company pays put more claims from OTHER properties, your bill has to be higher to cover this. Therefore, i would be very open to having an inspection done before insuring.
Having worked in high rise foundation projects, the approved method for adjacent construction to existing high rise is to use underpinning rather than sheets. Even individual piles with lagging between would be better. Less vibration, less ground disturbed. They may have hit something that will bite in that part of the lawsuit.
The structure still had major issues and they failed to act, this might be ruled as one of the many contributing factors, but again not the direct cause..
I was hoping that you hadn't completely veered away from the Champlain Towers South analysis. Thanks for this video. Once again, you released an extremely informative and insightful video.
Maybe the moral to this story is we should be more willing to put money towards the things we trust our lives to like our homes and our vehicles. An unfortunate way to get reminded. 😕
I'd say don't buy into these high rise 'paradises' anywhere. It's not worth it. Anything mass-produced is a recipe for cutting corners. Buy a house. Much healthier way of life anyway.
@@comment6864 The rabid pro high-density Left is not going to like your views on single family detached homes.... "Live in the pod and eat the bugs, bigot!"
@@cup_and_cone Well that's their problem, isn't it. I'll say it again and again - some nth floor is not a good place to raise a family, and it is not the way people are meant to live. One family, one house. It can be extended family and/or it doesn't have to be a big house. Can be a little cape-codder on a 1/4 acre, but that's the healthy way for people to live, I don't care what anybody says. And BTW it is not some cocky American invention. This is the most normal way people have lived throughout history. So they didn't have cars, but bopped around on horses along country roads. Nothing wrong with cars, nothing wrong with houses. God gave us mineral oils for energy, and it as obvious as daylight that that's what they're for and what they should be used for, and it is an abomination to reject that wonderful gift. Leftists are always at war with both God and human nature. That's their main problem - they despise human nature, and God's laws while at it. All that 'humaneness' they profess is as fake as plastic apples.
@@comment6864 yikes dude. This is such a narrow-minded take. People have been living in cities and towns for a long time. We wouldn't have built them, if we didn't need them. Also, your idea is flawed. Do you even realize how much land would be gone if everyone just bought a single family house? You wouldn't have a farm or land to live on. People from all walks of life are allowed to live however they choose. And if thats in a city, where they are able to find work, then that's fine. Everything we build should be safe. From single family homes, to condos. And ps. Single home developments are just as cheaply made as some dumb Miami condos.
Maybe, but the truth is, with all things engineering (regardless of whether it's civil, municipal, or even product), the job really entails making whatever it is to function adequately and safely, without going over. Take bridges for example. Sure, we could totally make them sturdier that they are now, but that would add significant cost. The key is to make them strong enough plus a percentage. This has lead to innovations like the steel I-beam, and the suspension bridge. Engineers jobs aren't just to make something strong, but to make it strong enough and with adequate margin to not fail. Otherwise, a basic bridge would be made out of stone and cost 10 times as much. Likewise, a car would be engineered to the point where it was no longer affordable to the common man.
Man, I can't get over what an excellent teacher you are. It's truly exhilarating to learn from you! I only wish I had been exposed to more STEM careers in school, I absolutely would have studied engineering 💜
@@BuildingIntegrity I guess you have bills to pay and from the lack of adverts I'm guessing these videos don't contribute much, so thank you for spending the time to give us your clear, unbiased and professional explanations.
These multiple lawsuits illustrate the *Swiss cheese model* for accidents. A single failure typically does not cause an accident. Instead, the multiple causes stack on top of one another like slices of Swiss cheese. Only when all the holes line up does the accident happen.
The adjacent ongoing construction, at most, might have accelerated the inevitable collapse of Champaign Towers. The deficient structure design itself already sealed its fate to that eventuality bar none.
Hell when they neglected the building like they did, i don't see how they want to place blame on the other building.When you use 16 by 16 columns in the garage to make more parking spots, then add another floor to the top which was against city codes. Add more weight remodeling and salt water getting in everything. The strees on those columns finally took it's toll.
Not to mention the specs for the building and initial build didn’t necessarily plan for adding marble tile floors in many units and other decorative objects adding tons to the existing, already skimped on from the get-go, load bearing columns and walls.
You can't blame the owners/association for neglect when they were kept out of the loop as to the severity of the issue. They are not structural engineers. What they thought were mostly cosmetic issues were in fact serious structural issues. If a higher power had told them, "these issues need resolved or your building could fall down within just a couple years", I am sure they would have acted a lot more fast than they did and not put it off.
Personally I think it should go to court . Based on the engineers report he used the word exponentially for me that is time to either carry out repairs in a timely fashion or evacuate the building until the repairs are done . It's as simple as that .
The small columns in the garage weren't to save space - you could have used 24 x 24 columns and still had enough space. It was to save money. Nathan Reiber needed to get rich, and ultimately didn't care how many people ended up dying as a result. They cut corners in that entire project. Poorly designed and underbuilt structure, shit concrete, paltry amount of rebar - the list is probably long... The added weight from remodeling wasn't an issue. A residential floor system is designed to support 40 lbs/square foot of live load, in addition to supporting it's own weight, before deflection starts causing problems, mainly cosmetic. Actual live loads, from people, furniture, etc. are much less than this, a lot of it concentrated around the perimeter of the space. They could have added tens of thousands of pounds per unit without an issue. The real issue was the tiny pool deck columns, only 12 x 12. When combined with the skimping on rebar and decades of water damage, it ended up taking the building down.
I think "multiple contributing factors" sums it up pretty well. From the inadequate and shoddy design process and construction which gave the building a handicap from day one, to the extra demands placed on it by floor tiling, storm windows and palm trees on the pool deck, to the lack of preventative maintenance and replacements of time-expired components, to external factors such as vibration, wind load and moisture.
Based upon my background as a vibration analyst, the vibration velocity (measurement of how fast an object is moving) with a reading of 0.5 inch/sec value can be determined in two ways. First is the overall vibration level. This is a summation of the energy amplitude reading of all frequency peaks displayed from lowest to highest in the frequency spectrum being measured. Secondly, this value can be from a specific frequency peak. Additionally, there can be energy that is displayed that as an appearance of what is called a "hay stack". The "straw" coming out of the top of the "hay stack" are the frequencies and the area underneath all of the "straws" is pure energy. The area under the "hay stack" is called the noise floor. The higher the noise floor, the greater the velocity energy. Since every object has a natural resonant frequency that is based upon its mass, stiffness and damping, a vibration reading of 0.5 inch/sec for a single frequency can result in long term component damage and eventual failure. I would be interested in seeing the reports showing the 36 vibration readings from the seismic units that shows the full frequency spectrum of vibration produced by the impacting of the sheet pile system. If there is a significant frequency peak with an amplitude around 0.5 in/sec to 0.75 in/sec, this is most likely a resonance frequency of the CTS that is being excited by the broadband frequency impacting from the sheet piling installation. This area of the spectrum would be accompanied by a raised noise floor. An example of this frequency excitation would be hitting a tuning fork with a dead blow hammer. The hammer produces energy that covers a broad frequency range. The tuning fork is excited at its resonant by the energy from one of the many frequencies produced by the impact of the hammer that match the resonant frequency. The resonant frequency must fall within the range of frequencies produced by the hammer. There will be a significant raised noise floor on the spectrum due to the amount of energy due to the impact of the hammer. Considering the number of sheet pilings installed, plus the total pieces of equipment being operated at one time in perform the sheet piling installation, plus the total time taken to install all the sheet pilings, this could add up to a significant amount of vibration energy at the resonant frequency of the CTS. The letter from the building occupant that reported cracks on a wall near the balcony could indicate the results of long term component failure. Determining the resonant frequency of the CTS may be determined from mathematical modeling. But due to the deterioration of the building over time (reduction in mass, stiffness and damping), there may be a shifting to a lower resonant frequency.
Charles Rogers maybe you have a couple of answers for me. 1) How long did it take the pilings to be installed? 2) How deep did they drill? 3) What material were the pilings made of? 4) How many pilings we installed? Research/info about these details are not available or at least I have not found them yet. Agreed, prolonged resonant frequency could be a key component in this entire situation. Thank you for your expertise.
Well, I find your theory implausible. If the vibration was anywhere near the resonant frequency of CTS, wouldn't there have been damage immediately?? (I've seen the video of the Tacoma Narrows bridge destruction in 1940. That sure didn't take 5 years to happen...) Is there even a resonant frequency in a complex multi-element object like an L-shaped 12 story building? Or are you talking just about the pool deck? How did Morabito not find that kind of damage 2 years later?
Excellent recap of the lawsuit, Josh. If I recall correctly, weren't there SEVERAL CTS residents complaining about the vibrations from the building project across the street? Also, didn't the contractor make some financial payment to to CTS association to appease the residents? Looking forward to your future uploads on this lawsuit.
Yes, and yes! Good memory. I tried to just touch on the broad points in this video... trying to make my videos a bit more concise these days :) Thanks for watching!
I've been in skyscrapers across the street from blasting to finish up demolition work that regularly shook the building a little. It didn't do a thing to my building, but it was annoying.
A bunch of rich condo owners in Florida, they probably would have complained about any construction. I don't find that evidence particularly compelling.
What I learned by watching these is that we have no idea how the buildings are built. We just have to trust that the money that the contractor saved and the shady practices don’t cost us our lives and there’s no way to know.
Where I live highway construction is accompanied by signs warning that traffic fines double inside the construction zone. Perhaps we need laws dictating that damage claims double when building codes are violated and an accident follows. Not damages... but twice damages. That'd be an incentive to do it right and not cut corners.
There are a ton of parties listed in the suit... but the 4 party groups mentioned in this video are the main ones... Also, in Florida Statutes the Building Department and their employees are exempt from liability... I'd be curious to see if that gets successfully challenged in this case.
@@BuildingIntegrity That exemption is not in the public interest. Should be shot down. Been following you since the beginning. Your videos are just superior and I thank you. Wondering what their homeowners insurance covers.
I'm not familiar with FL tort claims act, but government employees performing their job are usually granted immunity unless their is state law providing for it. Same deal with police officers.
They should be suing the guy from Surfside (or Surfside) who came down after the 2018 Moribito report and looked around and told them "your building is in fine shape".
That would be one Rosendo "Ross" Prieto, Building Official for Town of Surfside... police wanted to talk to him early on, but he "mysteriously" went on vacation... overseas... the day after the collapse... hmmm... very ethical... highest professional standards indeed.
As a 'public official' working within the color of their duties, he might not be 'personally' liable because of 'immunity', even if he was 'in error'. Of the city will be responsible for his damages, but it may be 'no big deal' to him.
Continuous seismic monitoring is not expensive and the intermittent use will allow "what happened while not monitoring" in. I understand the previous 87 Park structure (Howard Johnson Dezerland) was removed via explosive demolition. My blasting professor, a world-class expert, always cautioned to monitor seismic activity from start to finish as proof your action was within specified limits. Otherwise you will be sued for any damage to neighboring structures (and you will lose). Even quarry operations know this as fact.
Yep I agree. Only proof they need imo is before and after damage. The time gap in between is not as relevant because damage progresses through time. As soon as a compromise happens, you have essentially a time bomb on your hands. The parties who inspected, serviced, monitored afterwards are also culpable. Definitely, heads will roll.
The Howard Johnson Dezerland (aka Biltmore Terrace Hotel) at the 8701 site was an architectural masterpiece of the "MiMo" style, and it's unfortunate (on several levels) that it wasn't renovated and left in place. Besides the aforementioned *significant* seismic energy imparted to CTS, the mid-century hotel was about 85 feet shorter, and so blocked a LOT less sun to CTS during the desirable winter months. The much higher 87 Park not only lowered the desirability of CTS, but I wonder if it altered the daily thermal expansion-contraction cycle...? Poor flawed CTSouth... so fragile.
No one is mentioning that 5 years following all the "vibration" that the suit is asserting is/was the cause of the CTS collapse, the tenants were all complaining about "VIBRATIONS" they were experiencing due to the new roofing on their own building that was taking place!!! Was anyone monitoring those vibrations and what was the likelihood those vibrations could have caused accumulated harmonic damage?? This appears to be no different than any other "catastrophe"!! Cheap minimal design, questionable plan/design approval, faulty initial construction, lack of maintenance, additional structural weight added, coupled with "Vibrations", both external and internal. So, where does one apply "blame"?? This catastrophe was just waiting for a "weak link" to fail!! So,
@@pappabob29 Building might have fallen due to women using J&J Hootchie Powder, or exposure to Round-Up, or Hernia Mesh Surgery. We may never know the true cause.
@@chetmyers7041 "We may never know the true cause." True!! But the attorneys are already out there "pointing fingers" and asking Jurors who know nothing about construction to decide!!
Oh hell yes I'm glad you're back on the case? I followed closely the analysis the different channels offered for the collapse of CTS and yours was/is the best. I'm looking forward to your future videos.
I retired to Thailand and after your earlier collapse video, I felt the urge to view the columns of the 17 floor condo I live in. To my surprise, the columns here are about 42" square, larger than the ones at Champlain Towers and both buildings are around 40 years old.
Thanks Josh - excellent reporting. The law suit directed at that building across the street was a surprise to me (although the way law suits go these days, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised). I have been following your posts, as well as some other YT posters, since the day of the collapse. I find that your videos are the best of the bunch. Clear, concise, informative, and with an obvious Engineering focus. Will be watching for your next video.
Thanks Josh! The wisdom of lawyers is steeped in hindsight. I used to sit on a condo committee in a hurricane belt. We made sure the condos were over insured to protect ourselves knowing that in a big hit insurance companies will be quick to cut payouts to the bone as repair costs explode. In this case, I think that the board will pay bigtime for having human emotions. They know a special assessment will be painful to owners and are reluctant to give them the bad news so they delay delivering the bad news to the owners to the point where it becomes too late to save the building. Owners would be more than angry at assessments of a couple of hundred grand but when given a chance the owners, in return, show no mercy. Being on a condo board is a thankless job. My ex-wife was a dress designer. Her boss each season would demand that she crank out a huge plethora of dress designs. He said if you throw enough sh _ t at the wall some will stick. As you point out lawyers think the same way.
That doesn't make sense, tho. It's been proven people buy more if you give them FEWER choices, over more. There was an experiment on it. Besides, 99.99% of all clothing is the SAME...
@@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823 You are wrong. You correctly cite that a large choice of products **at the point of purchase** can overwhelm a customer. The error you made was assuming the "clothing designer" was supplying all clothing to THE SAME STORE.
Josh, your knowledge and talent at effectively conveying it has been remarkably clear. Thank you for making your observations understandable to all of us. The lawsuits were inevitable, as is the suffering of all who lost loved-ones. Many Prayers are still going up for these people. Great job to you you and your crew. Thank you.
Interesting, in the UK we have something called "The Party Wall Act" This act gives the neighbour legal rights to support from your ground. When I built my house I followed normal process and employed an RICS registered surveyor (Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors) to survey the adjacent houses to agree their structural condition beforehand, so if a claim for damage from the building works is made there is a line in the sand as to the original condition. Neighbours have the right to employ their own surveyors which I would have had to pay for, but both neighbours agreed to using a common surveyor which was helpful as it cut my costs. I'm sure it must be the same in most countries.
UH, no, just no. You build a house, a reg house(not a multi story building in a city) anywhere in America you don't survey the house next door. The houses next to you have NOTHING to do with your house. A neighbor can't do jack shit about what your are building on land you bought. As long as you get a permit to build you house, it could look like a big dildo(a structurally sound, inspected dildo) and the people in the neighborhood have to live with it. Surveying before you build a reg house is just marking where the lot ends and begins, that's it(normal lots are about 80' X 120'). Obviously building a condominium that's multistory is a completely different story, that has to have all kinds of inspections regarding adjacent buildings and if the ground is compacted enough, what kind of footers are needed, etc. You are saying a house, so I'm assuming you mean like a house, for a single family. I watched shows in the UK about your building codes and local government looks like a nightmare.
That sounds most prudent. I have not heard of regulations here in the U.S. on single family dwellings that would be pre-emptive in mitigation, only that you can sue before, during or after the fact if you discover your neighbors actions cause, or may cause, damages to your property. Anybody know?
@@merrywalsh2809 I know you'll have to tear it all down if the permits are wrong, nonexistent or if it's too close to the other building. They need access to the side of their property
@@mikeworkman3593 So you can knock down the middle house of a terrace preparing the ground to rebuild your dildo causing the houses on either side to collapse and nothing could be done about it? Or you could smash up a water pipe, sewer, gas or electric line crossing your land to provide common services to adjacent lots and not break building codes? What is meant by the act is to ensure that developers have to take into account the effect of the building on the services supplied to near by buildings. Some of this is basic (you can’t draw so much power from a common supply that you exceed its capacity if your neighbour is drawing their share) but some of it is intangible services such as the ability of the ground to support the existing buildings or the access to natural light or the privacy of occupants.
Nobody has talked about it because there hasn’t been much information until now. I would think you would be glad people aren’t exploiting a tragedy for personal gain.
Not everybody has stopped. A certain plagiarizing troll (who will not be mentioned by name) from a TH-cam site 'CE' (abbreviation) is milking this tragedy for all it's worth, trying to 'work the algorithm' and profit from CTS's mass death. You can go watch his videos, but they are amateurish and zero production value. The guy is a jackass, too. Paranoid liar. Real Trumpian clown...
14:44 . . . Sadly, Maria and Mihai Radulescu were were still living in CTS apartment 404, years after their prophetic e-mail, and both died in the collapse.
I’m following CTS partly because I moved to a condo after I retired and my children were grown. It never occurred to me that I could end up with a big bill from a damaged building. It’s a much newer and smaller building in a colder climate. No garage, no pool. Your videos have been very helpful. According to the Miami Herald, there were extensive complaints while 87 Park was under construction.
This is an extremely rare event. How many condos have been built and how many have collapsed in the last 30 years. The thing that makes this news worthy is the fact that it is so extremely rare. The news doesn't care about common things.
"Never ocurred to you?" Didn't your agent discuss the future assessments (repairs on the building itself) when you bought? If you'd gotten hurt and they knew (management, previous owners), you'd have a perfect lawsuit. You have 5 years to sue, especially if they had to have known.
I don’t know anything about this subject, but I found that Joshua was clear in his explanations so that I came away actually understanding the premise of the varying lawsuits & could see where blame could involve more than one group!
Hello, i have tried to watch other videos on this collapse. The rest of the videos dont hold a candle to you break down of events and happenings. I keep coming back to B.I. Thanks for the understandable videos. you are doing a great job ! keep it up my friend.
Josh, appreciate you digging through the legalese and and translating it for common folk. The whole video series on CTS has been fascinating to watch. Based on what I know so far, all parties seem to have cut corners and are somewhat liable. That said, most of it still seems to lie with CTS management/apartment owners themselves - even though residents supposedly noticed cracks in 2016, there was barely any maintenance since then till the building collapse. I'd love to hear the case arguments against Morabito and the law firm.
And not for nothing but you & I know as Floridians (I’m a native) - most homes & buildings built before hurricane Andrew aren’t built to withstand the fl elements. ESPECIALLY coastal!! AND this is a prime example of why you DO NOT “build”/dig basements in fl!! Again ESPECIALLY coastal!!
There was a LOT of rampant corruption in 79 when this place was built . At EVERY level . The developer was wanted on fraud and corruption charges he fled his native Canada. City inspectors got fired for taking payoffs on other jobs . The construction company had issues. But all are now long gone. I'll bet some if the current parties will try to blame the original parties when they can.
Because Nathan Reiber never intended to 'do it over'. If this building (or any of his buildings) collapsed when he was still alive, he would have liquidated his assets, grown a beard, and disappeared off the face of the earth. Went back to Canada to live with the Inuits. That's the kind of person he was. Self-absorbed sociopath.
@@johnbergstrom2931 _That's the kind of person he was. Self-absorbed sociopath._ But, but... they said he was The Savior of Surfside! Pillar of the Tax-Base! A Mensch Among Mensches!... they even gave him the proverbial Key To The City! _roll eyes_
Yes let’s blame the neighbors for our poor building maintenance! Next we’ll focus on suing Mother Nature for causing wind and rain that made our building to rust from the inside out and crumble!
Great review...very appreciate,,, I work in architectural field, one of the main problem is this building is the pool deck share the same column of the building......the building part is protected from the elements and the pool deck face all the elements. Both building and pool deck should be a separate structure.......the should have their own support column.. For the rest, it was negligence from the condo association to delay the repairs because no ones want to pay $100 000 per unit
Morabito knew the foundation was shifting, in 2018 they dug up the basement slab and examined the pile caps. In the restoration plan they called for a grade beam to stabilize multiple pile caps. Before the repairs could be made the vibrations from next door caused the partial collapse. The missing column was punched down and lies beneath.
"Before the repairs could be made.."? Huh? CTS management got the Morabito report, then sat around with their thumbs up their asses for almost 3 FUCKING YEARS! Did they think the damage would improve itself with age? Did they think they were making wine?
not only was that brought to the atten of the HOA commitee.. they had the chance then to fix it for thousands less, then when they finally said ok we better get er done, the price had then tripled in the estimates. they were just ignoring it for way too long
Les, do you have any details on that foundation exploratory work? There is a large conspicuous patch in the basement slab, encompassing (and extending well beyond) the 3 columns M, N, O of Row 13.1 ("planter zone")... must've missed the "findings"...
Didn't the border between Surfside and Miami Beach run right between those two buildings? That might affect how this was coordinated from a permitting perspective.
Side note: for all of its shortcomings in the Building Inspections game, Town of Surfside is to be commended not only for its height restriction, but also for its *setback from Mean High Tide* and the *Dune Maintenance Zone* policies. i.e. notice how much taller 87 Park is, and how much closer it encroaches to the ocean (and how much LESS sand-retaining dune flora is planted between pools and ocean).
Josh....you have been the most credible source of information I have seen on CTS. Please branch out your knowledge and investigative reports. I find most aspects to why this happened. You have to know in the future we will see these tragedies happen again. It will be good to find the solution to this one to prevent others before they happen. How many ticking time bombs are there?
@@49walker44 it's taller than all of the one ones, and, instead of steel and glass, has significantly more concrete than other skyscrapers. It's far heavier than all of the other buildings sitting on similar foundations.
@@garyc39 THAT'S the building! Seems like a lot of San Francisco harbor area is reclaimed and even build on old sailing ships. Been way too many years since I was there or what I learned, I did love the place at the time.
Fabulous video Josh. You make sure to explain everything to us so that people like me, who don't have a clue how to build a building, can easily understand. Thank you for that. I look forward to your next video about the lawsuit.
It was a cheap crap design condos to make as much money as possible selling them, As it falls apart it’s very expensive maintenance, they waited too long to re enforce the columns
having worked for many condo and property management companies maintenance workers are usually ignored or totally dismissed outright when a issue is brought up to management........they will spend on cosmetics and superficial things rather than more important stuff..
As always, Josh delivers a clear, concise, well-researched explanation. Trying to determine the cause of this collapse is interesting to me. So many factors I never thought about before... even though I lived in Chicago high rises for 18 years!
Perfect storm. I think it was doomed from the beginning due to shoddy construction and corners cut. Then add in aging, lack of maintenance, water intrusion, heavy add-ons and the construction next door. Bam. It was a matter of when, not if. If it hadn’t buckled when it did, the next big Hurricane would have gotten it.
Blaming the association's law firm may be a stunt to prevent the association and the law firm from collaborating in defending the lawsuit, rather it positions them to blame each other.
Skinny columns, plus a heavy afterthought penthouse floor, plus overloading the pool deck, plus salty high humidity Florida tropics, plus bad 1970s “modern” architecture, caused the collapse.
@@kellyname5733 The "last" straw... *5 YEARS ago?* ... tough row to hoe for duh lawyers. OTOH, the architect of 87 Park (Renzo Piano) is WORLD-famous, and the residents of 87 Park can afford condos MUCH more expensive than CTS, so yeah, there's going to be lawsuits.
@@oscaraltman2449 Yes, they took their time topping out, and I think Terra even "stalled" _cough $$ issues cough-cough_ a time or two, and they didn't get their Certificate of Occupancy until late-2019, but the *heavy vibrations* were all part of the initial foundation pile-driving, which wrapped up mid-2016, IIRC... either way, UPhill battle for the plaintiffs, but as always, the lawyers are trying to avoid court, and scare them into a settlement.
More great reporting on a facet of this story that I never expected, which is a lawsuit against the adjoining property owners, in addition to the other three entities.
Another excellent video. You said early on that everybody would sue everybody on this and I think you're right. There was a lot of monetary value in that building and land and everyone is going to try to get their piece of the pie. I am surprised that they aren't suing the contractor that installed the paving bricks on the pool deck since they likely made the pool deck overweight for the columns underneath it. Those bricks probably messed up the drainage from the pool deck, too. That would certainly explain the punching shear evident in many photos of the pool deck area. On another note, I thought Jeff Ostroff made a pretty solid case about the missing column. He went to Champlain Towers North and essentially recreated the the tourist's video of CTS in daylight. The two buildings were virtually identical from that angle. He was able to get a video shot from the same angle as the tourist and was even lucky enough to get an unobstructed view when a vehicle opened the gate and left the garage. Comparing the two shots, it's pretty obvious that the column is missing in the tourist's video. He has a video on TH-cam about it. Lastly, you did a video a while back suggesting there could be a pocket of water under the bottom slab of CTS. The site has had flooding problems since the collapse. I would be curious to know if you're right about that one. I'm also curious about the condition of the foundation under that slab. I suspect NIST will look into the foundation but it could be some time before they give out any information.
Not enough (relatively porous) concrete cover on the rebar followed by continuous rusting and spalling seems to me to be the central issue. It wouldn't have fallen if it hadn't been weakened so much. Condos and skyscrapers are built beside one another all the time, not a problem with decent quality construction. The residents wrote to the contractors next door about the vibrations, did their own engineers NOT write too and invite them to see the damage being caused ? who was paying the piper and calling the tune ?
Exactly, the minimum standards are sufficient when everything is in good condition. Unfortunately, there was no overbuilding of anything to allow leeway for damage or wear/tear, let alone outright neglect. As for the neighbors, I would think that the engineering report citing neglect and rust, and recommended repairs that were not completed would exonerate them. They may still settle to avoid a costly legal battle, but I doubt they'd be found at fault that much later and with the other known issues with the building. The letter might tug at our heart strings, but in court it will be shown to lack basis on any professional expertise. Had they hired their own engineer at the time to document everything and make a formal complaint, it might be different.
Sounds to me like someone lost out financially when the building collapsed and now wants their money back! After bending over backwards for years to stop any works that would have prevented the buildings collapse in the first place!
This is a unique lawsuit in terms of the amount of instant death and sustained injuries that occurred by the collapse of CTS. Normally, a tragic death will result in a law suit on compassion without much merit with respect to tortuous conduct. In this case, the defendants may feel compelled to just settle at a high amount due to the high loss of life and just call it a write off. I don't think any entity even remotely involved would want to drag this out through a court of law having to relive this tragedy over multiple times. The mentality of everyone being sued will probably be just get it over with, put up a memorial and move on with proper closure. The building of Park 87 falls on the City of Miami Beach and I am sure that all parts of construction were followed to a T and / or usual and customary. I am not sure why Morabito did not install temporary supports under the pool deck if they thought that its collapse was imminent and I would presume that they would have known that if the pool deck did collapse that it would have taken down the building but I do not understand this part of the business. The people who are truly responsible for this tragedy when the building was built 40 years ago are all gone.
The real question is how much is the plaintiff seeking and how much is the defendant able to pay (liquidity + insurance), and are these numbers even remotely close.
@@cup_and_cone Very good question. The plaintiff's legal counsel is probably in it for name recognition and from their standpoint it would not be desirable to have this go through litigation and the process of settlement will probably be long as each insurance company for each of the four defendants along with each defendant will need to make a serious special consideration on this specific case. In the end I would imagine that they will come up with a magic figure to settle this case even if both sides are originally far apart. I really doubt that this is a good case to take to trial for either side. This will not be an easy case to settle for some of the victims of this tragedy and my heart goes out to them.
I honestly know very little about building and construction but your explanation of the circumstances and the engineering of the buildings help me immensely to understand what is going on here, thanks for your excellent work,top job!.
I'm not an expert on laminated concrete decks, but these vibrations seem like a huge red flag that could have triggered or greatly accelerated delamination. It also seems plausible that they could have been adding microfractures around the column caps at a horrendous rate.
I find it ironic that the survivors are suing the association when it was the apartment owners who kept campaigning and voting to not spend the money to do the repairs. Shame on our association for doing what we told them to do?
Having been in a condo with HOA I know just how the owners act. A lot of them can barely afford the condo in the first place so they're cash strapped, which leads them to oppose anything that costs money. It was a happy day in my life when we got out of condos and HOA's.!!!!
See unless the laws are different in the USA to England vote or not building gets repaired or here we use a word called condemned a phrase for accommodation that either doesn't meet the required living standards or its simply structurally unsafe .
We have the same thing but the inspectors said the building was still safe to live in when they should have advised that it would need to be condemned immediately or at a later point in time. That's why they're being sued.
Very interesting. Thank you for presenting this information. Hopefully the results of these lawsuits will help to prevent this horrible tragedy from happening elsewhere.
I'll defer to vibration analyst Charles Rogers, who posted the treatise above, BUT... it might even be worse than 50% more--think logarithmic, like The Richter Scale, i.e. the increase from 0.5 in/sec to 0.75 might be more like a doubling of imparted energy, not just half-again... =:O
Another great video! Your analysis is always engineering and evidence based, measured and without any bias I can detect/ Looking forward to your next video on this subject. I believe while there may have been concern about some structural damage, no one but Morabito likely realized how dire the situation was in 2018. Though Morabito did include the "exponentially increase" language in their report, how may laymen know what that means or looks like? I believe Morabito and the condo association are in deep kimchee.
At worst, the building next door exposed the criminality, incompetence and greed of the original developers and the city itself. That building was shoddy, poorly maintained and doomed to eventual failure. And there is no indication that anyone was going to be willing to accept the responsibility and cost of repairing it to prevent its failure.
@@willtricks9432 You know it... 87 Park = DEEP pockets... designed by world-famous "Star-chitect" (Renzo Piano), and IIRC the cheapest unit at 87 Park goes for more $$ than the penthouse did at CTSouth... yeah, that HOA next door needs to fire up a legal team.
This is a terrible read on your part. Adjacent construction activities have a well recorded history of causing damage to existing properties. A perfectly constructed building is not designed to undergo these types of stresses. There are also engineering unknowns which are assumed for any project that include not being able to perfectly model how surrounding soils will react or transmit adjacent construction activities. Short story shorter you don't have an engineering basis for anything you're saying here.
It would be interesting to know exactly how FEW unit owners were year round occupants of the towers. Seems like quite a few units were rented out as investment properties. Cynic says, "Who cares how shoddy the maintenance is because we don't actually live there?"
Thanks for producing this video, very interesting as well as informative. Your narration and explanations made for easy understanding of the events for individuals ( like myself ) not familiar with the building, engineering industry. Great job!
@@VictorNewman201 Some sneezes on the other hand!! However in this case the work being done was not particularly exceptional, very similar work was done for surfside and close to many other buildings in other cities without them collapsing. As has been very well hypothesized on here the collapse was most likely caused by a screw up in an old plan adjustment that removed support beams around the area where the collapse appears to have begun.
Another great dive into the collapse of Champlain towers. These lawsuits are going to be very hard to prove. It's remarkable that the vibrations were highlighted even before they broke ground. It will all be hard to prove and it may take 10 years or more to even get into court . Another great video Josh. The you Building Integrity.
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Do you think these lawsuits will make it to a court room or do you think they will settle outside of court?
Making it all the way to a jury seems statistically unlikely, but we'll see what comes out of discovery and depositions.
Given the multiple defendants that's a tough question. If one settles out then the rest might follow. If one take it to court ... 🤷♂️
One of the defendant’s insurance companies will fold and the rest will likely follow in advance of a trial.
I assume all the defendents will offer max liability (which may not be much). The residents and survivors will have to decide whether to pursue a lawsuit based on expected recovery beyond insurance limits.
I simply don't know!
This presentation, as always is so exceptionally explained!
If I was a juror I most certainly would ask " Why were none of the owners willing to NOT sue the HOA, etc., knowing what they knew in the past as they stated in the emails, a few years ago! "
It seems to me a small majority could have been aware but did they go around to email or send letters to all the unit owners!
So very sad with the loss of lives!
God bless you and your loved ones in the Holy Name of Jesus Christ!
i just moved into the city, and as i entered the parking garage of my apartment building for the first time i caught myself looking for things like cracked and spalled concrete. i think that's proof that your videos are raising awareness on the building code issues that might go unnoticed in daily life
I am checking is my beach condo too! This week!
Whew… it’s not just me. He’s really good.
Once you renovate a house, you suddenly wonder about all of the deathtraps that you lived in previously. I remember walking into one house, and upon seeing a piece of zip cord exiting the wall, just turning and walking right back out. Fresh paint that is still de-gassingis always a bad sign too.
I’m glad…that means the spread of information is creating critical thinking!! SWEET!!!
@@robertslugg8361 Freshly painted houses use something called trade paint (in the UK.) It's role it too look freshly painted but is is not weathertproof it is designed to breathe it goes powdery in less than an year and need replacing wiith a better product. No hardship as most new owners want a different colour by then.
Having experience in the construction industry, this complaint is 100% believable. A contractor cutting corners despite warnings, thinking they know better and believing that everyone is over-reacting and that everything will be fine? That's every day at every construction site.
I know that's true here in So-Fla... where you be talkin' 'bout? ;')
@@MajorCaliber Minnesota/ wisconsin area. Let's just say there is a reason OSHA exists, and it isn't because someone tripped over an extension cord.... :)
This and the tower tipping over in San Francisco.
@@michaelrmurphy2734
Notice in all these cases where the owner/developer is given multiple choices, the CHEAPEST one is ALWAYS the chosen one. In the case of the San Francisco "leaning Tower", the choice for the foundation pilings for a "skyscraper" located on "Bay Fill", in a "Earthquake Zone" was the "modern engineering miracle" instead of the traditional "driven piles down to bedrock. OBVIOUSLY, the cheaper choice!! Latest reports are that the building is leaning enough to be causing some plumbing waste backups. "Sh-t" flows "downhill" - - - - - - - until the building leans the opposite direction!! Anyone have a "clothespin" ??
@@MajorCaliber Every tall building has the exposure to weather like that of acontainer transporter like the Evergiven exposed to an Hurricane the rattling as the wind gusts from F1 to 5 is above 70MPH. The problem is they are boxes not aerodynamic like ships. So the pneumatics of jack hammers in involved,
"No, no, no, it wasn't the shoddy engineering, questionable construction or the utter lack of maintenance that collapsed our tower. It was our evil neighbors..."
Hey but you had 3 years to figure out !!! So the building gave you all the possible signs, you cant expect the building to talk or scream.
Its all gravity's fault.
32.2 ft /ft my @$$
@@hifijohn Gravity said: "Yeah, I've been here 13,800,000,000 years! Not going away. You little primates need to figure it out!"
Evil neighbors with deep pockets...
@@johnbergstrom2931 We can't blame the building inspectors since they appear to have been absent. /s
Rule #1 of lawsuits - find someone with money to sue
I tried suing a homeless person once. The only thing I got from him was tuberculosis...
rule #2.... sue everyone and let the courts sort it out.
They obviously can’t sue themselves for stupidity , and not properly maintaining their building they own
@@cardboardboxification ... courts are a funny thing. It also depends on who is doing the suing. The owners could sue the HOA for not properly stating how urgent the repairs were... and hopefully there's an insurance company involved to get money from.
@@rupe53 One would hope, tho im.just glad at the thought of those greedy insurance bastards having to pay out :)
I’m a lawyer who represents engineers in these type of cases. Excellent job explaining the complaint! FYI, Florida is a comparative fault state, which means that liability can be apportioned between numerous defendants.
Thanks, I was wondering about that.
Why aren’t there stronger laws against these kinds of ridiculous lawsuits? There is no evidence whatever that work on the nearby building had any effect, and there is *ample* evidence that design, construction, revisions, and poor maintenance on their own building was much more likely contributory-and some of the culpability lies with the owners/unit holders of Champlain South
The claim against 87 Park is prima facie bogus.
It's about liability the neighboring building can be found 1% liable and will have to pay out.. It's about proving your case each and every case is different... So it's easier to prove 1% rather than 100%. With so many parties this is going to take a while. The lawsuits have been filed, it's all about the discovery process.
@@kineahora8736 They are not ridiculous claims, as i mention above in the UK this is written into "the party wall act" and no doubt there are similar laws in other countries that are based on English system of law.
@@G8YTZ Most everything not codified into specific federal and state law, reverts to English Common Law. But do not rely upon my words, I am a locksmith, not a Barrister!
Fascinating analysis of the whole Surfside event. I work in another engineering field, but can see the complexity here - design decisions, construction decisions/ building management decisions/ nearby development risk assessments. There is a lot to learn here as an engineer of any discipline. Obviously my thoughts/empathy go to those impacted from this event, but we can learn form this. This channel is showing a constructive approach how to investigate.
Completely agree regarding the complexity. But the condo's engineer's knew about the potential for catastrophic collapse (at the pool deck) for years and did nothing consequential about it. To me they bear most of the responsibility.
I am sure social scientists will also be studying this for quite some time. I just got my masters in emergency & disaster management and I am fascinated by how all of the different parties evaluated the risk to the building and themselves. Optimism bias was strong.
@@barryschmidt3436, may be, but we must be cautious. We did not have access to all documents (e.g. Mail between Engineer and Association). There is the Association not wanting to make the repairs and there is the city employee telling the Association that the building was fine.
For me, the most incredible thing (and the engineering team was really bad) was the poor assessment of the collapse of the deck slab next to column K13.1.
Its like a camp rd on a lake, no one wants to spend a penny on it and it gets rougher and rougher every year. This condo was a bunch of cheap skates that would get report after report instead of fixing the known problems. Blaming the company that did the report saying they didn't stress the situation enough is like saying I was waiting for a brighter engine light in my car. These people need to own their own mistake of no maintenance.
That is why the Association is being sued.
@@charleyb8423
I would think that suing the association is like suing yourself: they were all the association and were all involved (whether actively or by being apathetic..it is still a choice) in the care of that building, i.e., their home.
Therefore they are suing themselves and saying that they, the owners, messed up.
@@akb5531 wanna bet the dead HOA members catch all the blame? Wanna bet all the people from 1979 catch all the blame? Wanna bet the condo across the street and Moribido settle out of court with an NDA ? Wanna bet the attorneys drag this out decades to get fat and rich?
@@akb5531 are you on the board in your area? Many quit because they disagreed
@@travelnc2g
No, after 20 years I became apathetic. And all I'm saying is that is also an active choice.
About 10 - 11 years ago My Mom and step dad actually went to see a Condo at Champlain Towers. They decided to not Buy the Unit they were looking at, due to some issues with the Balcony was 1 of the main reasons, another was just having to update pretty much everything inside. Said seemed like everything was still original when the place was built back in early 80s.
Yeah, I've seen realtor photos... That place was a time-machine, and not in a good way. Showed the tackiness and gaudiness of the 80's...
Yeah but thats pretty normal for condos down here in South FL. Old people live in these things for years and then they die, the kids sell it and it looks like its from the 70s or 80s.
@@mikeworkman3593 Oh I know that. can happen anywhere really. Think it was more about spending alot of money on the condo only then to having to spend more Money to bring place up to date pretty much. Most of the eletrical plugs would have to been replaced. since most of them were ones with just 2 slots instead of the plugs that also had the ground plugs. There was Carpet in the bathroom.
@@ChakatNightspark OMG, you just gave me a flashback... In the house my dad bought in the 70's, we had carpet in the bathrooms, and kitchen. Ugly-ass earthtones, tacky paterns.
@@johnbergstrom2931 When I bought my place a few years ago. It had Carpet in both bathrooms. So when i removed it. I was surprised that it was covering Tile. Nothing was wrong with the Tile. Had to re grout it. but in total it saved me a good $600 to $750+ Im still updating stuff today to my place. 80% of it is done for most part. If I can live with it for awhile, I will do so. First thing i did when i moved into my new place. New Roof, Kitchen remodel and bathroom carpets removed. (Found tile so just re grout) ((The bathrooms were only place with Carpet in it)) I repainted entire place but slowly over the years. until it was done. I also removed the paint from the brick fireplace, Removed all Gas Lines from house (Gas is the Worse Thing you can have in a house) Took me a couple months of hard work and lot of chemicals to remove all the paint from the bricks. Had to replace a couple bricks. Paint was just to much and was in a couple bricks that had all these tiny holes on the face. But I have a nice better brick fireplace to burn wood in. Instead of some Gas ugly ineffective insert despite the people i bought the place from had just put it in like 3 months before i bought the place. But, I wont have anything GAS. its a waste of money and it heats and cooks very poorly.
I find you very easy to follow. Find this topic fascinating.
Me too!!
"I find you very easy to follow" Sounds like some cult-type tendencies there, bud. You should watch that...
JK, just givin' ya flack.
Your disection of what , when, how, who of the primary building in question, is EXCELLENT. I love, love, love your explainations. So damn concise !!
They blame everyone but themselves for not taking care of business in a timely manner. Bad HOA!
Most HOA are residents with limited expertise. Generally retired, and willing to deal with the daily nuisance complaints and holding meetings on matters they rely upon the expertise of others. Some HOAs contract this function out to law firms or property management companies.
The course of action to come is a matter of plaintiffs hauling EVERYONE into court, and letting the legal system sort out the liability. It will be in percentages of fault among various entities and their underwriters. Oh, this was covered as video plays out.
You better rewatch that video. Its the people that were living in the building and owners of the units that are suing.
@@greatitbroke yeah, and I assume that the "association" they are suing is the HOA
Nope. "They" are not the HOA but the residents and apartment owners. And they *are* blaming the HOA.
This claim is NOT by the HOA. It is the residents and survivors. Some of them were probably renting and knew nothing about the drastic conditions, or like the lady who had just bought a condo on 6th floor.
G'day from Australia. This is good to follow and i appreciate your unbiased, unemotional approach to the scenario - as sad as it is. If I could add this - I wish normal news reporting used your videos as a template for any topic.
Regardless of which parties were the most negligent it's still heartwreching to know how many innocent lives were lost due to cost cutting on multiple levels.
LOL
It reminds me of the fatal collapse of the department store in Seoul.
This is just another factor in the overall disaster, the HOA is still the biggest problem in the picture.
@@joshjones5172 I thought it was the inspectors and builders. Just looking at the balcony decks, there's very little floor there. I'd be sus if I knew THAT was the thickness of the whole floor.
The reason I live in a house is to avoid condo associations and the decisions they make that could impact my life. Too many times I've experienced all the arguing and poor decision making. Time and time again, a whole lot of nothing gets done, and no one wants to spend a dime to fix things. This was a tragic event, but I hope something good comes out of it and people learn a lesson.
This was major building damage, tho. I don't like the skinny columns and I'd be immediately sus, but I'm paranoid, so...
Same. Own a house and no HOA…. Federal, state, county, town rules and now I add an HOA? NO. Just NO…
Josh: First, I want to thank you for your lucid, clearly presented explanations. I am a professional engineer myself (though NOT a structural engineer) and find your videos to be detailed enough to be interesting to professionals and at the same time easily understandable by laymen.
One question I would have is: Was the "Moribito Report" (the report associated with the 40 year recertification) reviewed by the property insurance carriers, and what was their evaluation of that report. Were the various insurance companies concerned by the building's condition as assessed by the professional engineer?
The lawsuit names the law firm for not raising Red Flags, why isn't the insurance company named? It seems to me that the insurance companies (who all have the services of engineering consulting firms to assess technical risks) would be another party who might (emphasize MIGHT) have provided another voice of authority to motivate the condo board to take urgent action.
Thanks again for your work on this - I am using it in my work with high school students to foster discussion of engineering ethics.
That’s what I want to know too. I owned a 5-plex and the insurance people were always on our a*s to make repairs as menial as flaking paint with a deadline.
@@Wazupiseeyou Insurance Co.'s dont want a big liability. Maybe their reputation is reflective of the properties they insure. While looking to insure my house, most companies would insure it sight unseen and one said they needed to see the property inside and out. At the time I was irritated to give up my time for an appt. for viewing of a new build house but...the Co. gave some good reasons for their policy. They wanted to see that their was actually a structure and the condition of the structure. They also wanted pics every year to validate the condition/changes to the property. That I never did and never will do.
Now John your not using TH-cam videos to teach high schoolers are you? Half the battle is telling students not to use TH-cam in their own work LMAO
@@kellyname5733 if i understand your comment correctly, youre saying you would NOT want to have an insurance co inspect your property before insuring. Why?
To me, an insurance company which does not do this is going to pay out more claims due to less background work before insuring property. When the company pays put more claims from OTHER properties, your bill has to be higher to cover this. Therefore, i would be very open to having an inspection done before insuring.
Business ethics is a growing field.
Having worked in high rise foundation projects, the approved method for adjacent construction to existing high rise is to use underpinning rather than sheets. Even individual piles with lagging between would be better. Less vibration, less ground disturbed. They may have hit something that will bite in that part of the lawsuit.
Underpinning is typically used for a directly or near directly abutting structure in my experience. The new building was situated quite far away.
The structure still had major issues and they failed to act, this might be ruled as one of the many contributing factors, but again not the direct cause..
I was hoping that you hadn't completely veered away from the Champlain Towers South analysis. Thanks for this video. Once again, you released an extremely informative and insightful video.
Same here. I figured the video updates would taper off pretty quick until lawsuit(s) filed and along with any engineering info.
This lawsuit is a classic example of throwing stuff on the wall to see if it sticks …
💯
Maybe the moral to this story is we should be more willing to put money towards the things we trust our lives to like our homes and our vehicles. An unfortunate way to get reminded. 😕
I'd say don't buy into these high rise 'paradises' anywhere. It's not worth it. Anything mass-produced is a recipe for cutting corners. Buy a house. Much healthier way of life anyway.
@@comment6864 The rabid pro high-density Left is not going to like your views on single family detached homes.... "Live in the pod and eat the bugs, bigot!"
@@cup_and_cone Well that's their problem, isn't it. I'll say it again and again - some nth floor is not a good place to raise a family, and it is not the way people are meant to live. One family, one house. It can be extended family and/or it doesn't have to be a big house. Can be a little cape-codder on a 1/4 acre, but that's the healthy way for people to live, I don't care what anybody says. And BTW it is not some cocky American invention. This is the most normal way people have lived throughout history. So they didn't have cars, but bopped around on horses along country roads. Nothing wrong with cars, nothing wrong with houses. God gave us mineral oils for energy, and it as obvious as daylight that that's what they're for and what they should be used for, and it is an abomination to reject that wonderful gift. Leftists are always at war with both God and human nature. That's their main problem - they despise human nature, and God's laws while at it. All that 'humaneness' they profess is as fake as plastic apples.
@@comment6864 yikes dude. This is such a narrow-minded take. People have been living in cities and towns for a long time. We wouldn't have built them, if we didn't need them.
Also, your idea is flawed. Do you even realize how much land would be gone if everyone just bought a single family house? You wouldn't have a farm or land to live on.
People from all walks of life are allowed to live however they choose. And if thats in a city, where they are able to find work, then that's fine. Everything we build should be safe. From single family homes, to condos. And ps. Single home developments are just as cheaply made as some dumb Miami condos.
Maybe, but the truth is, with all things engineering (regardless of whether it's civil, municipal, or even product), the job really entails making whatever it is to function adequately and safely, without going over. Take bridges for example. Sure, we could totally make them sturdier that they are now, but that would add significant cost. The key is to make them strong enough plus a percentage. This has lead to innovations like the steel I-beam, and the suspension bridge. Engineers jobs aren't just to make something strong, but to make it strong enough and with adequate margin to not fail. Otherwise, a basic bridge would be made out of stone and cost 10 times as much. Likewise, a car would be engineered to the point where it was no longer affordable to the common man.
Man, I can't get over what an excellent teacher you are. It's truly exhilarating to learn from you! I only wish I had been exposed to more STEM careers in school, I absolutely would have studied engineering 💜
Me too! I was good at math and science, yet I wound up in graphic design.
Never too later to learn.
I wonder how many others are reflecting on exactly the same as your regret. And, yes, he IS an excellent teacher.
I think this is better than school, because it's based on real life experience. 👍
Great to see you in another video.
Thank you Tony. Hoping to make a bunch more on a lot of subjects... real life just keeps getting in the way :)
@@BuildingIntegrity I guess you have bills to pay and from the lack of adverts I'm guessing these videos don't contribute much, so thank you for spending the time to give us your clear, unbiased and professional explanations.
These multiple lawsuits illustrate the *Swiss cheese model* for accidents. A single failure typically does not cause an accident. Instead, the multiple causes stack on top of one another like slices of Swiss cheese. Only when all the holes line up does the accident happen.
The adjacent ongoing construction, at most, might have accelerated the inevitable collapse of Champaign Towers. The deficient structure design itself already sealed its fate to that eventuality bar none.
Hell when they neglected the building like they did, i don't see how they want to place blame on the other building.When you use 16 by 16 columns in the garage to make more parking spots, then add another floor to the top which was against city codes. Add more weight remodeling and salt water getting in everything. The strees on those columns finally took it's toll.
Not to mention the specs for the building and initial build didn’t necessarily plan for adding marble tile floors in many units and other decorative objects adding tons to the existing, already skimped on from the get-go, load bearing columns and walls.
You can't blame the owners/association for neglect when they were kept out of the loop as to the severity of the issue. They are not structural engineers. What they thought were mostly cosmetic issues were in fact serious structural issues. If a higher power had told them, "these issues need resolved or your building could fall down within just a couple years", I am sure they would have acted a lot more fast than they did and not put it off.
Personally I think it should go to court . Based on the engineers report he used the word exponentially for me that is time to either carry out repairs in a timely fashion or evacuate the building until the repairs are done . It's as simple as that .
The small columns in the garage weren't to save space - you could have used 24 x 24 columns and still had enough space. It was to save money. Nathan Reiber needed to get rich, and ultimately didn't care how many people ended up dying as a result. They cut corners in that entire project. Poorly designed and underbuilt structure, shit concrete, paltry amount of rebar - the list is probably long...
The added weight from remodeling wasn't an issue. A residential floor system is designed to support 40 lbs/square foot of live load, in addition to supporting it's own weight, before deflection starts causing problems, mainly cosmetic. Actual live loads, from people, furniture, etc. are much less than this, a lot of it concentrated around the perimeter of the space. They could have added tens of thousands of pounds per unit without an issue.
The real issue was the tiny pool deck columns, only 12 x 12. When combined with the skimping on rebar and decades of water damage, it ended up taking the building down.
@@cup_and_cone no engineer can say well this building is going to collapse in a few years .that's why I think the word exponentially was used .
I think "multiple contributing factors" sums it up pretty well. From the inadequate and shoddy design process and construction which gave the building a handicap from day one, to the extra demands placed on it by floor tiling, storm windows and palm trees on the pool deck, to the lack of preventative maintenance and replacements of time-expired components, to external factors such as vibration, wind load and moisture.
Everyone's an expert until the building falls, then it's someone else's fault.
Right on.
Victory has a thousand fathers, and defeat is an orphan.
Based upon my background as a vibration analyst, the vibration velocity (measurement of how fast an object is moving) with a reading of 0.5 inch/sec value can be determined in two ways. First is the overall vibration level. This is a summation of the energy amplitude reading of all frequency peaks displayed from lowest to highest in the frequency spectrum being measured. Secondly, this value can be from a specific frequency peak. Additionally, there can be energy that is displayed that as an appearance of what is called a "hay stack". The "straw" coming out of the top of the "hay stack" are the frequencies and the area underneath all of the "straws" is pure energy. The area under the "hay stack" is called the noise floor. The higher the noise floor, the greater the velocity energy.
Since every object has a natural resonant frequency that is based upon its mass, stiffness and damping, a vibration reading of 0.5 inch/sec for a single frequency can result in long term component damage and eventual failure. I would be interested in seeing the reports showing the 36 vibration readings from the seismic units that shows the full frequency spectrum of vibration produced by the impacting of the sheet pile system. If there is a significant frequency peak with an amplitude around 0.5 in/sec to 0.75 in/sec, this is most likely a resonance frequency of the CTS that is being excited by the broadband frequency impacting from the sheet piling installation. This area of the spectrum would be accompanied by a raised noise floor. An example of this frequency excitation would be hitting a tuning fork with a dead blow hammer. The hammer produces energy that covers a broad frequency range. The tuning fork is excited at its resonant by the energy from one of the many frequencies produced by the impact of the hammer that match the resonant frequency. The resonant frequency must fall within the range of frequencies produced by the hammer. There will be a significant raised noise floor on the spectrum due to the amount of energy due to the impact of the hammer.
Considering the number of sheet pilings installed, plus the total pieces of equipment being operated at one time in perform the sheet piling installation, plus the total time taken to install all the sheet pilings, this could add up to a significant amount of vibration energy at the resonant frequency of the CTS. The letter from the building occupant that reported cracks on a wall near the balcony could indicate the results of long term component failure.
Determining the resonant frequency of the CTS may be determined from mathematical modeling. But due to the deterioration of the building over time (reduction in mass, stiffness and damping), there may be a shifting to a lower resonant frequency.
Perhaps telling is that the couple who wrote that letter lived in Unit 404, NW side of CTS, the portion _farthest_ from the 87 Park site.
Charles Rogers maybe you have a couple of answers for me. 1) How long did it take the pilings to be installed? 2) How deep did they drill? 3) What material were the pilings made of? 4) How many pilings we installed? Research/info about these details are not available or at least I have not found them yet. Agreed, prolonged resonant frequency could be a key component in this entire situation. Thank you for your expertise.
Well, I find your theory implausible. If the vibration was anywhere near the resonant frequency of CTS, wouldn't there have been damage immediately?? (I've seen the video of the Tacoma Narrows bridge destruction in 1940. That sure didn't take 5 years to happen...) Is there even a resonant frequency in a complex multi-element object like an L-shaped 12 story building? Or are you talking just about the pool deck?
How did Morabito not find that kind of damage 2 years later?
Your channel has been a credible source of information on this collapse.
Thank you so much.
Excellent recap of the lawsuit, Josh. If I recall correctly, weren't there SEVERAL CTS residents complaining about the vibrations from the building project across the street? Also, didn't the contractor make some financial payment to to CTS association to appease the residents? Looking forward to your future uploads on this lawsuit.
Yes, and yes! Good memory. I tried to just touch on the broad points in this video... trying to make my videos a bit more concise these days :) Thanks for watching!
I've been in skyscrapers across the street from blasting to finish up demolition work that regularly shook the building a little. It didn't do a thing to my building, but it was annoying.
A bunch of rich condo owners in Florida, they probably would have complained about any construction. I don't find that evidence particularly compelling.
Unfortunnately these payments didnt help the building itself. They only start to worry about it once it went down.
@@myaccount611 agreed, sadly.
What I learned by watching these is that we have no idea how the buildings are built. We just have to trust that the money that the contractor saved and the shady practices don’t cost us our lives and there’s no way to know.
Where I live highway construction is accompanied by signs warning that traffic fines double inside the construction zone. Perhaps we need laws dictating that damage claims double when building codes are violated and an accident follows. Not damages... but twice damages. That'd be an incentive to do it right and not cut corners.
Why are they not suing the building department? Didn't they say building in excellent shape?
There are a ton of parties listed in the suit... but the 4 party groups mentioned in this video are the main ones... Also, in Florida Statutes the Building Department and their employees are exempt from liability... I'd be curious to see if that gets successfully challenged in this case.
@@BuildingIntegrity That exemption is not in the public interest. Should be shot down. Been following you since the beginning. Your videos are just superior and I thank you. Wondering what their homeowners insurance covers.
No deep pocket and likely immune as are most government agencies … unfortunately.
I'm not familiar with FL tort claims act, but government employees performing their job are usually granted immunity unless their is state law providing for it. Same deal with police officers.
@@BuildingIntegrity Thats like not being able to sue a car manufacturer who make shoddy brakes
Thank you for following up and this matter. I have been interested ever since you started. Keep up the good reporting,
They should be suing the guy from Surfside (or Surfside) who came down after the 2018 Moribito report and looked around and told them "your building is in fine shape".
That would be one Rosendo "Ross" Prieto, Building Official for Town of Surfside... police wanted to talk to him early on, but he "mysteriously" went on vacation... overseas... the day after the collapse... hmmm... very ethical... highest professional standards indeed.
As a 'public official' working within the color of their duties, he might not be 'personally' liable because of 'immunity', even if he was 'in error'. Of the city will be responsible for his damages, but it may be 'no big deal' to him.
Continuous seismic monitoring is not expensive and the intermittent use will allow "what happened while not monitoring" in.
I understand the previous 87 Park structure (Howard Johnson Dezerland) was removed via explosive demolition. My blasting professor, a world-class expert, always cautioned to monitor seismic activity from start to finish as proof your action was within specified limits. Otherwise you will be sued for any damage to neighboring structures (and you will lose). Even quarry operations know this as fact.
Yep I agree. Only proof they need imo is before and after damage. The time gap in between is not as relevant because damage progresses through time. As soon as a compromise happens, you have essentially a time bomb on your hands.
The parties who inspected, serviced, monitored afterwards are also culpable. Definitely, heads will roll.
The Howard Johnson Dezerland (aka Biltmore Terrace Hotel) at the 8701 site was an architectural masterpiece of the "MiMo" style, and it's unfortunate (on several levels) that it wasn't renovated and left in place. Besides the aforementioned *significant* seismic energy imparted to CTS, the mid-century hotel was about 85 feet shorter, and so blocked a LOT less sun to CTS during the desirable winter months. The much higher 87 Park not only lowered the desirability of CTS, but I wonder if it altered the daily thermal expansion-contraction cycle...? Poor flawed CTSouth... so fragile.
No one is mentioning that 5 years following all the "vibration" that the suit is asserting is/was the cause of the CTS collapse, the tenants were all complaining about "VIBRATIONS" they were experiencing due to the new roofing on their own building that was taking place!!! Was anyone monitoring those vibrations and what was the likelihood those vibrations could have caused accumulated harmonic damage??
This appears to be no different than any other "catastrophe"!! Cheap minimal design, questionable plan/design approval, faulty initial construction, lack of maintenance, additional structural weight added, coupled with "Vibrations", both external and internal. So, where does one apply "blame"?? This catastrophe was just waiting for a "weak link" to fail!! So,
@@pappabob29 Building might have fallen due to women using J&J Hootchie Powder, or exposure to Round-Up, or Hernia Mesh Surgery. We may never know the true cause.
@@chetmyers7041
"We may never know the true cause."
True!! But the attorneys are already out there "pointing fingers" and asking Jurors who know nothing about construction to decide!!
I really appreciate the effort you put into making your videos fact and evidence based. Looking forward to the next one!
Oh hell yes I'm glad you're back on the case? I followed closely the analysis the different channels offered for the collapse of CTS and yours was/is the best. I'm looking forward to your future videos.
I retired to Thailand and after your earlier collapse video, I felt the urge to view the columns of the 17 floor condo I live in. To my surprise, the columns here are about 42" square, larger than the ones at Champlain Towers and both buildings are around 40 years old.
These lawsuits are just beginning. They will go on for years. You are the most knowledgeable people on here talking about this disaster.
Thanks Josh - excellent reporting.
The law suit directed at that building across the street was a surprise to me (although the way law suits go these days, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised). I have been following your posts, as well as some other YT posters, since the day of the collapse. I find that your videos are the best of the bunch. Clear, concise, informative, and with an obvious Engineering focus. Will be watching for your next video.
I could listen to Josh all day.
More please!
Thanks Josh! The wisdom of lawyers is steeped in hindsight. I used to sit on a condo committee in a hurricane belt. We made sure the condos were over insured to protect ourselves knowing that in a big hit insurance companies will be quick to cut payouts to the bone as repair costs explode. In this case, I think that the board will pay bigtime for having human emotions. They know a special assessment will be painful to owners and are reluctant to give them the bad news so they delay delivering the bad news to the owners to the point where it becomes too late to save the building. Owners would be more than angry at assessments of a couple of hundred grand but when given a chance the owners, in return, show no mercy. Being on a condo board is a thankless job.
My ex-wife was a dress designer. Her boss each season would demand that she crank out a huge plethora of dress designs. He said if you throw enough sh _ t at the wall some will stick. As you point out lawyers think the same way.
That doesn't make sense, tho. It's been proven people buy more if you give them FEWER choices, over more. There was an experiment on it.
Besides, 99.99% of all clothing is the SAME...
@@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823 You are wrong. You correctly cite that a large choice of products **at the point of purchase** can overwhelm a customer. The error you made was assuming the "clothing designer" was supplying all clothing to THE SAME STORE.
Josh, your knowledge and talent at effectively conveying it has been remarkably clear. Thank you for making your observations understandable to all of us. The lawsuits were inevitable, as is the suffering of all who lost loved-ones. Many Prayers are still going up for these people. Great job to you you and your crew. Thank you.
Thank you. And yes, please keep praying for the victim's families. This is an unfathomable loss for these folks.
Thank you for this easy to follow analysis. I’m looking forward to your continuing commentary as this
lawsuit and findings unfold.
Interesting, in the UK we have something called "The Party Wall Act" This act gives the neighbour legal rights to support from your ground. When I built my house I followed normal process and employed an RICS registered surveyor (Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors) to survey the adjacent houses to agree their structural condition beforehand, so if a claim for damage from the building works is made there is a line in the sand as to the original condition. Neighbours have the right to employ their own surveyors which I would have had to pay for, but both neighbours agreed to using a common surveyor which was helpful as it cut my costs. I'm sure it must be the same in most countries.
UH, no, just no. You build a house, a reg house(not a multi story building in a city) anywhere in America you don't survey the house next door. The houses next to you have NOTHING to do with your house. A neighbor can't do jack shit about what your are building on land you bought. As long as you get a permit to build you house, it could look like a big dildo(a structurally sound, inspected dildo) and the people in the neighborhood have to live with it. Surveying before you build a reg house is just marking where the lot ends and begins, that's it(normal lots are about 80' X 120').
Obviously building a condominium that's multistory is a completely different story, that has to have all kinds of inspections regarding adjacent buildings and if the ground is compacted enough, what kind of footers are needed, etc. You are saying a house, so I'm assuming you mean like a house, for a single family.
I watched shows in the UK about your building codes and local government looks like a nightmare.
@@mikeworkman3593 I think if you toned down the language a little, people might be more inclined to take notice of any points you might like to raise.
That sounds most prudent. I have not heard of regulations here in the U.S. on single family dwellings that would be pre-emptive in mitigation, only that you can sue before, during or after the fact if you discover your neighbors actions cause, or may cause, damages to your property. Anybody know?
@@merrywalsh2809 I know you'll have to tear it all down if the permits are wrong, nonexistent or if it's too close to the other building. They need access to the side of their property
@@mikeworkman3593 So you can knock down the middle house of a terrace preparing the ground to rebuild your dildo causing the houses on either side to collapse and nothing could be done about it? Or you could smash up a water pipe, sewer, gas or electric line crossing your land to provide common services to adjacent lots and not break building codes?
What is meant by the act is to ensure that developers have to take into account the effect of the building on the services supplied to near by buildings. Some of this is basic (you can’t draw so much power from a common supply that you exceed its capacity if your neighbour is drawing their share) but some of it is intangible services such as the ability of the ground to support the existing buildings or the access to natural light or the privacy of occupants.
Thank you for all the videos about this building collapse.
Plus i forgot to mention, The cost cutting on the sheer walls and the punch sheer rebar omg.
I forgot it was even subscribed to you. It’s interesting how everyone just stopped talking about this accident.
Nobody has talked about it because there hasn’t been much information until now.
I would think you would be glad people aren’t exploiting a tragedy for personal gain.
Oh yea they’re really looking for those huge gains..
@@jenniferlynne7323 They (media) aren't exploiting a tragedy because there's nothing to exploit right now.
Not everybody has stopped. A certain plagiarizing troll (who will not be mentioned by name) from a TH-cam site 'CE' (abbreviation) is milking this tragedy for all it's worth, trying to 'work the algorithm' and profit from CTS's mass death.
You can go watch his videos, but they are amateurish and zero production value. The guy is a jackass, too. Paranoid liar. Real Trumpian clown...
@@johnbergstrom2931 Yes. He is quite a nutcase. Really out there.
14:44 . . . Sadly, Maria and Mihai Radulescu were were still living in CTS apartment 404, years after their prophetic e-mail, and both died in the collapse.
I’m following CTS partly because I moved to a condo after I retired and my children were grown. It never occurred to me that I could end up with a big bill from a damaged building. It’s a much newer and smaller building in a colder climate. No garage, no pool. Your videos have been very helpful. According to the Miami Herald, there were extensive complaints while 87 Park was under construction.
This is an extremely rare event. How many condos have been built and how many have collapsed in the last 30 years. The thing that makes this news worthy is the fact that it is so extremely rare. The news doesn't care about common things.
@@crissd8283 I know that, but the subject is interesting anyway. I thought of taking engineering at university but took physics instead.
"Never ocurred to you?" Didn't your agent discuss the future assessments (repairs on the building itself) when you bought?
If you'd gotten hurt and they knew (management, previous owners), you'd have a perfect lawsuit. You have 5 years to sue, especially if they had to have known.
@@crissd8283 Well, where's the story in that?
@@crissd8283 They don't collapse. But having huge special expenditures for repairs that should have been done 30 years ago is really common.
I don’t know anything about this subject, but I found that Joshua was clear in his explanations so that I came away actually understanding the premise of the varying lawsuits & could see where blame could involve more than one group!
Thank you for keeping us informed of all the latest news regarding CTS. We really appreciate it, Josh!!
Hello, i have tried to watch other videos on this collapse. The rest of the videos dont hold a candle to you break down of events and happenings. I keep coming back to B.I. Thanks for the understandable videos. you are doing a great job ! keep it up my friend.
Josh, appreciate you digging through the legalese and and translating it for common folk. The whole video series on CTS has been fascinating to watch.
Based on what I know so far, all parties seem to have cut corners and are somewhat liable. That said, most of it still seems to lie with CTS management/apartment owners themselves - even though residents supposedly noticed cracks in 2016, there was barely any maintenance since then till the building collapse.
I'd love to hear the case arguments against Morabito and the law firm.
Owners fault?? How so?? The owners dont hold the purse, the Association/management do.
And not for nothing but you & I know as Floridians (I’m a native) - most homes & buildings built before hurricane Andrew aren’t built to withstand the fl elements. ESPECIALLY coastal!! AND this is a prime example of why you DO NOT “build”/dig basements in fl!! Again ESPECIALLY coastal!!
I love how you explain all this stuff. You make it possible for laypeople to understand complex problems. Thank you.
Once again the question becomes, "Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?"
Because money spent now is money you no longer have now. Money spent in the future hasn't been spent yet.
@@GeneralBolas Or in the case of the government, money spent in the future is money we don't have now.
There was a LOT of rampant corruption in 79 when this place was built . At EVERY level . The developer was wanted on fraud and corruption charges he fled his native Canada. City inspectors got fired for taking payoffs on other jobs . The construction company had issues. But all are now long gone. I'll bet some if the current parties will try to blame the original parties when they can.
Because Nathan Reiber never intended to 'do it over'. If this building (or any of his buildings) collapsed when he was still alive, he would have liquidated his assets, grown a beard, and disappeared off the face of the earth. Went back to Canada to live with the Inuits. That's the kind of person he was. Self-absorbed sociopath.
@@johnbergstrom2931 _That's the kind of person he was. Self-absorbed sociopath._ But, but... they said he was The Savior of Surfside! Pillar of the Tax-Base! A Mensch Among Mensches!... they even gave him the proverbial Key To The City! _roll eyes_
Yes let’s blame the neighbors for our poor building maintenance!
Next we’ll focus on suing Mother Nature for causing wind and rain that made our building to rust from the inside out and crumble!
Great review...very appreciate,,,
I work in architectural field, one of the main problem is this building is the pool deck share the same column of the building......the building part is protected from the elements and the pool deck face all the elements. Both building and pool deck should be a separate structure.......the should have their own support column..
For the rest, it was negligence from the condo association to delay the repairs because no ones want to pay $100 000 per unit
Year after year, the residents didn't want to pay for the repairs and still would be refusing to pay today, if the building didn't fall.
Morabito knew the foundation was shifting, in 2018 they dug up the basement slab and examined the pile caps. In the restoration plan they called for a grade beam to stabilize multiple pile caps. Before the repairs could be made the vibrations from next door caused the partial collapse. The missing column was punched down and lies beneath.
"Before the repairs could be made.."? Huh? CTS management got the Morabito report, then sat around with their thumbs up their asses for almost 3 FUCKING YEARS! Did they think the damage would improve itself with age? Did they think they were making wine?
not only was that brought to the atten of the HOA commitee.. they had the chance then to fix it for thousands less, then when they finally said ok we better get er done, the price had then tripled in the estimates. they were just ignoring it for way too long
@@voodoosue666 Not 'thousands'. The repairs would have been $9 million in 2018 vs $15 million in 2021.
Les, do you have any details on that foundation exploratory work? There is a large conspicuous patch in the basement slab, encompassing (and extending well beyond) the 3 columns M, N, O of Row 13.1 ("planter zone")... must've missed the "findings"...
@@johnbergstrom2931 I don't think they had either one. Jmo
This is a great video. I wish you were running the country - thanks again
Didn't the border between Surfside and Miami Beach run right between those two buildings? That might affect how this was coordinated from a permitting perspective.
yup that wall was the 2 cities divider
Side note: for all of its shortcomings in the Building Inspections game, Town of Surfside is to be commended not only for its height restriction, but also for its *setback from Mean High Tide* and the *Dune Maintenance Zone* policies. i.e. notice how much taller 87 Park is, and how much closer it encroaches to the ocean (and how much LESS sand-retaining dune flora is planted between pools and ocean).
Josh....you have been the most credible source of information I have seen on CTS. Please branch out your knowledge and investigative reports. I find most aspects to why this happened. You have to know in the future we will see these tragedies happen again. It will be good to find the solution to this one to prevent others before they happen. How many ticking time bombs are there?
I would love to see you analyze the San Francisco Millennium Tower!
I second that. So many buildings in the SF, all settling to one degree or another depending on location, why is the millennium different or is it?
@@49walker44 it's taller than all of the one ones, and, instead of steel and glass, has significantly more concrete than other skyscrapers. It's far heavier than all of the other buildings sitting on similar foundations.
@@49walker44 You mean the leaning tower of San francisco
@@garyc39 THAT'S the building! Seems like a lot of San Francisco harbor area is reclaimed and even build on old sailing ships. Been way too many years since I was there or what I learned, I did love the place at the time.
@@nauci Foundations that don't go down to bedrock. Imagine!
Fabulous video Josh. You make sure to explain everything to us so that people like me, who don't have a clue how to build a building, can easily understand. Thank you for that. I look forward to your next video about the lawsuit.
The HOA and tenants knew of the rust problems . They just didn’t want to spend the 100,000 plus each the repairs would cost.
It was a cheap crap design condos to make as much money as possible selling them,
As it falls apart it’s very expensive maintenance, they waited too long to re enforce the columns
having worked for many condo and property management companies maintenance workers are usually ignored or totally dismissed outright when a issue is brought up to management........they will spend on cosmetics and superficial things rather than more important stuff..
As always, Josh delivers a clear, concise, well-researched explanation. Trying to determine the cause of this collapse is interesting to me. So many factors I never thought about before... even though I lived in Chicago high rises for 18 years!
Thank you for continuing to cover this important story.
Perfect storm. I think it was doomed from the beginning due to shoddy construction and corners cut. Then add in aging, lack of maintenance, water intrusion, heavy add-ons and the construction next door. Bam. It was a matter of when, not if. If it hadn’t buckled when it did, the next big Hurricane would have gotten it.
This whole mess will takes years to resolve.
Blaming the association's law firm may be a stunt to prevent the association and the law firm from collaborating in defending the lawsuit, rather it positions them to blame each other.
Skinny columns, plus a heavy afterthought penthouse floor, plus overloading the pool deck, plus salty high humidity Florida tropics, plus bad 1970s “modern” architecture, caused the collapse.
The excessive vibrations for months...the last straw.
@@kellyname5733 The "last" straw... *5 YEARS ago?* ... tough row to hoe for duh lawyers. OTOH, the architect of 87 Park (Renzo Piano) is WORLD-famous, and the residents of 87 Park can afford condos MUCH more expensive than CTS, so yeah, there's going to be lawsuits.
columns were not the problem The slabs were.
@@MajorCaliber the construction finished ~2 years before the collapse.
@@oscaraltman2449 Yes, they took their time topping out, and I think Terra even "stalled" _cough $$ issues cough-cough_ a time or two, and they didn't get their Certificate of Occupancy until late-2019, but the *heavy vibrations* were all part of the initial foundation pile-driving, which wrapped up mid-2016, IIRC... either way, UPhill battle for the plaintiffs, but as always, the lawyers are trying to avoid court, and scare them into a settlement.
Why do I get the feeling the 2018 surveyors are going to be scapegoated here, rather than examine, say, the construction industry and codes?
Because the builder is dead and the company is defunct. Also, statute of limitations.
More great reporting on a facet of this story that I never expected, which is a lawsuit against the adjoining property owners, in addition to the other three entities.
If you have a big loss, you throw blame in every direction and hope that someone throws some cash at you rather than the lawyers.
Damage from someone improperly constructing near your property can take literal years to appear.
The timing does not have problems.
Another excellent video. You said early on that everybody would sue everybody on this and I think you're right. There was a lot of monetary value in that building and land and everyone is going to try to get their piece of the pie. I am surprised that they aren't suing the contractor that installed the paving bricks on the pool deck since they likely made the pool deck overweight for the columns underneath it. Those bricks probably messed up the drainage from the pool deck, too. That would certainly explain the punching shear evident in many photos of the pool deck area.
On another note, I thought Jeff Ostroff made a pretty solid case about the missing column. He went to Champlain Towers North and essentially recreated the the tourist's video of CTS in daylight. The two buildings were virtually identical from that angle. He was able to get a video shot from the same angle as the tourist and was even lucky enough to get an unobstructed view when a vehicle opened the gate and left the garage. Comparing the two shots, it's pretty obvious that the column is missing in the tourist's video. He has a video on TH-cam about it.
Lastly, you did a video a while back suggesting there could be a pocket of water under the bottom slab of CTS. The site has had flooding problems since the collapse. I would be curious to know if you're right about that one. I'm also curious about the condition of the foundation under that slab. I suspect NIST will look into the foundation but it could be some time before they give out any information.
Thanks Josh for an update on what issue happening with the collapse . You do a great job explaining everything.
Not enough (relatively porous) concrete cover on the rebar followed by continuous rusting and spalling seems to me to be the central issue. It wouldn't have fallen if it hadn't been weakened so much. Condos and skyscrapers are built beside one another all the time, not a problem with decent quality construction. The residents wrote to the contractors next door about the vibrations, did their own engineers NOT write too and invite them to see the damage being caused ? who was paying the piper and calling the tune ?
Exactly, the minimum standards are sufficient when everything is in good condition. Unfortunately, there was no overbuilding of anything to allow leeway for damage or wear/tear, let alone outright neglect.
As for the neighbors, I would think that the engineering report citing neglect and rust, and recommended repairs that were not completed would exonerate them. They may still settle to avoid a costly legal battle, but I doubt they'd be found at fault that much later and with the other known issues with the building. The letter might tug at our heart strings, but in court it will be shown to lack basis on any professional expertise. Had they hired their own engineer at the time to document everything and make a formal complaint, it might be different.
Great video. I’ve been waiting for one like this from you.
Sounds to me like someone lost out financially when the building collapsed and now wants their money back! After bending over backwards for years to stop any works that would have prevented the buildings collapse in the first place!
Well presented! Great information on the way the lawsuit is structured.
You're awesome! Thanks for your time and expertise.
Another excellent, informative element to this CTS collapse series.
This is a unique lawsuit in terms of the amount of instant death and sustained injuries that occurred by the collapse of CTS. Normally, a tragic death will result in a law suit on compassion without much merit with respect to tortuous conduct. In this case, the defendants may feel compelled to just settle at a high amount due to the high loss of life and just call it a write off. I don't think any entity even remotely involved would want to drag this out through a court of law having to relive this tragedy over multiple times. The mentality of everyone being sued will probably be just get it over with, put up a memorial and move on with proper closure. The building of Park 87 falls on the City of Miami Beach and I am sure that all parts of construction were followed to a T and / or usual and customary. I am not sure why Morabito did not install temporary supports under the pool deck if they thought that its collapse was imminent and I would presume that they would have known that if the pool deck did collapse that it would have taken down the building but I do not understand this part of the business. The people who are truly responsible for this tragedy when the building was built 40 years ago are all gone.
The real question is how much is the plaintiff seeking and how much is the defendant able to pay (liquidity + insurance), and are these numbers even remotely close.
@@cup_and_cone Very good question. The plaintiff's legal counsel is probably in it for name recognition and from their standpoint it would not be desirable to have this go through litigation and the process of settlement will probably be long as each insurance company for each of the four defendants along with each defendant will need to make a serious special consideration on this specific case. In the end I would imagine that they will come up with a magic figure to settle this case even if both sides are originally far apart. I really doubt that this is a good case to take to trial for either side. This will not be an easy case to settle for some of the victims of this tragedy and my heart goes out to them.
I honestly know very little about building and construction but your explanation of the circumstances and the engineering of the buildings help me immensely to understand what is going on here, thanks for your excellent work,top job!.
I'm not an expert on laminated concrete decks, but these vibrations seem like a huge red flag that could have triggered or greatly accelerated delamination. It also seems plausible that they could have been adding microfractures around the column caps at a horrendous rate.
Fabulous video as always. Yours is consistently the best analysis of this tragic situation on youtube.
I find it ironic that the survivors are suing the association when it was the apartment owners who kept campaigning and voting to not spend the money to do the repairs. Shame on our association for doing what we told them to do?
Its the human condition. You are not suing an individual but a faceless committee instead. Money has no friends.
Having been in a condo with HOA I know just how the owners act. A lot of them can barely afford the condo in the first place so they're cash strapped, which leads them to oppose anything that costs money. It was a happy day in my life when we got out of condos and HOA's.!!!!
See unless the laws are different in the USA to England vote or not building gets repaired or here we use a word called condemned a phrase for accommodation that either doesn't meet the required living standards or its simply structurally unsafe .
Makes me mad blaming other people for YOUR bad decisions.
We have the same thing but the inspectors said the building was still safe to live in when they should have advised that it would need to be condemned immediately or at a later point in time. That's why they're being sued.
Very interesting. Thank you for presenting this information. Hopefully the results of these lawsuits will help to prevent this horrible tragedy from happening elsewhere.
14:05 If the limit is 0.5, then 0.75 is not a 25% excess, it's a 50% excess. The percentage is of that 0.5, not of 1.0. 0.25 is half of 0.5.
I'll defer to vibration analyst Charles Rogers, who posted the treatise above, BUT... it might even be worse than 50% more--think logarithmic, like The Richter Scale, i.e. the increase from 0.5 in/sec to 0.75 might be more like a doubling of imparted energy, not just half-again... =:O
Thanks for a well-tempered partial review of the complaint. Clearly there is more to come, and I'm looking forward to hearing it from you
Another great video! Your analysis is always engineering and evidence based, measured and without any bias I can detect/ Looking forward to your next video on this subject. I believe while there may have been concern about some structural damage, no one but Morabito likely realized how dire the situation was in 2018. Though Morabito did include the "exponentially increase" language in their report, how may laymen know what that means or looks like? I believe Morabito and the condo association are in deep kimchee.
Thank you for keeping us updated.
At worst, the building next door exposed the criminality, incompetence and greed of the original developers and the city itself. That building was shoddy, poorly maintained and doomed to eventual failure. And there is no indication that anyone was going to be willing to accept the responsibility and cost of repairing it to prevent its failure.
You can sue the company next door as they ain't dead or out of business.
@@willtricks9432 You know it... 87 Park = DEEP pockets... designed by world-famous "Star-chitect" (Renzo Piano), and IIRC the cheapest unit at 87 Park goes for more $$ than the penthouse did at CTSouth... yeah, that HOA next door needs to fire up a legal team.
This is a terrible read on your part. Adjacent construction activities have a well recorded history of causing damage to existing properties. A perfectly constructed building is not designed to undergo these types of stresses. There are also engineering unknowns which are assumed for any project that include not being able to perfectly model how surrounding soils will react or transmit adjacent construction activities.
Short story shorter you don't have an engineering basis for anything you're saying here.
It would be interesting to know exactly how FEW unit owners were year round occupants of the towers. Seems like quite a few units were rented out as investment properties. Cynic says, "Who cares how shoddy the maintenance is because we don't actually live there?"
Was the building shoddy by the standards of the time it was built, or was it built to the leading edge of contemporaneous engineering ?
Thanks for producing this video, very interesting as well as informative. Your narration and explanations made for easy understanding of the events for individuals ( like myself ) not familiar with the building, engineering industry. Great job!
If the building could be knocked over with a sneeze it's collapse is not the fault of the guy that sneezed.
Covid collapsed the building confirmed.
Usually when someone sneezes next to you, they don't seize your driveway and detonate explosives next to your house.
@@VictorNewman201 Some sneezes on the other hand!! However in this case the work being done was not particularly exceptional, very similar work was done for surfside and close to many other buildings in other cities without them collapsing. As has been very well hypothesized on here the collapse was most likely caused by a screw up in an old plan adjustment that removed support beams around the area where the collapse appears to have begun.
Always appreciate your research and updates on this disaster. Thanks again Josh!
Another great dive into the collapse of Champlain towers. These lawsuits are going to be very hard to prove. It's remarkable that the vibrations were highlighted even before they broke ground. It will all be hard to prove and it may take 10 years or more to even get into court . Another great video Josh. The you Building Integrity.